WEBVTT - Sound (featuring audio wizard Mat Keselman) 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:11.799 How any extraordinaries. Today, we're pulling back the dKu curtin 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.200 a bit. We're gonna see how the sausage is made, 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.720 as it were. So Daniel and I write pretty darn 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:21.440 detailed outlines before we record an episode, but often something 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:25.560 happens that totally derails our outline conversation, and that's good. 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:29.520 Sometimes the derailment happens because something I thought was kind 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:32.120 of obvious turns out to not be so obvious, and 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:35.000 Daniel will ask clarifying questions that forced me to come 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:40.000 up with different, better explanations on the fly. Or Daniel 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:42.080 will be working through his outline and I'll think of 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:45.680 some tangentially related topic that I now really want to 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:48.559 know about, and Daniel will hop online to do a 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.520 quick bit of research, and then we'll record a completely 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:55.760 unplanned segment. In each of these cases, our answers are 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:59.280 way less polished than we'd like, Lots of false starts, 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:03.520 lots of basically lots of stuff that the audience definitely 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.880 doesn't want to have to sit through. And then Daniel 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:09.720 and I have unexpected noises that intrude upon the audio. 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:13.759 In today's episode, I learned that my microphone actually does 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:16.199 pick up the sounds my goats make when they're trying 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:19.520 to get my attention, and sometimes Daniel apparently records from 0:01:19.560 --> 0:01:22.959 the inside of a grocery store. More on that later. Anyway, 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:25.720 these are only a handful of the many challenges that 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:28.840 we throw at Matt Kesselman, the audio wizard who makes 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:32.520 Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe sound so good. So today 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:34.720 we're bringing Matt on the show to talk about sound 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:37.320 and how he goes about fixing hours so that your 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:40.479 listening experience is so much better that it would be 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:42.720 if you were a fly on the wall while Daniel 0:01:42.720 --> 0:02:00.480 and I record. Welcome to Daniel and Kelly's Edited Universe. Hi. 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:03.120 I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and I like thinking 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:06.000 about aliens, and I've often been told I have a 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:07.160 face for radio. 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:16.560 Hi. I'm Kelly leader Smith. I study parasites in space. 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:20.800 I often make jokes about having a face for radio. 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:22.960 But I think actually Daniel and I are but quite 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:27.160 attractive human beings. Oh yes, and Daniel has a great 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:29.960 voice for radio, So let's focus on the positive. 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:32.040 As do you, Kelly. I think our voices work really 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:32.640 well together. 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:34.919 I appreciate it. But I will note that when we 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:39.120 transitioned from Jorge on the show to Kelly on the Show, 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:42.880 we did get a fair number of folks writing in 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:45.799 to complain about the sound of my voice. But here 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:49.680 I am over one hundred episodes later. Kiss my butt, loosers. 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:53.160 I'm not going anywhere hater's gonna hate. 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:55.400 But we also got a lot of comments from people 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:57.280 who love your voice. And I think it's just a 0:02:57.320 --> 0:03:00.240 subjective thing, you know, And it's a big part of 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:02.760 finding a podcast you'd like listening to. Is are the 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:05.800 voices pleasant and soothing? And that's very personal? 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.440 You know, That's right. But the good news is you 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.840 and I have Matt Kesselman to help us whenever our 0:03:11.919 --> 0:03:14.200 voices are sounding less than their best. 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:17.440 That's right. And I want my voice to be smooth, 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:18.880 because a lot of folks write in and tell me 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:22.120 they like to fall asleep to my voice, and hey, 0:03:22.160 --> 0:03:25.080 you know, I don't want to disturb anybody's slumber. No. 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:28.040 I wonder what my Calkuli laughed as to their dreams. 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:32.280 I dream of witches. But today we decided that we 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:34.760 were going to invite Matt Kesselman, who is just an 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:38.240 absolutely amazing audio engineer who, thankfully for us, spends a 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:40.280 lot of time working on our show. And part of 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:42.480 why we decided to invite him is because anyone who 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:46.080 submits a question that ends up on our Listener Questions 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:49.760 episode gets a raw audio file of Daniel and I 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:52.320 having our conversation, and we send it to them before 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.120 it goes to Matt, our audio engineer, so that they 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:57.400 have a chance to record themselves asking the question and 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:02.080 record themselves responding to our response to their question, and 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:03.480 then we can send all of that to Matt and 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:05.880 he can edit it all at once. And people often 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:10.000 respond to us and say, wow, your audio engineer has 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:10.560 a lot. 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:14.880 Of work to do, but not just that. Also they 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.520 say that it's really interesting to hear the unedited version 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:21.680 of the conversation because they can hear our side conversations 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:24.080 or when we pause to do research, or when we 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:26.760 back up to say something again, so they get like 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:29.320 a little glimpse behind the curtain. And so we want 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:31.080 to provide that to all of you today. 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:33.800 That's right, and so in the second segment of the show, 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:35.560 Matt is going to come on and talk to you 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.440 about the magic that he works on our episode, and 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:41.640 he'll play a couple raw clips so you'll get a 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:43.919 peek behind the curtain and see how Daniel and I 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:49.400 sound before Matt steps in. And Matt sent a question 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:53.039 for us to share with the listeners, and the question 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:57.719 was what kind of sound do humans hear best? So 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.720 let's go ahead and hear what the extraordinaries to say. 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:05.040 Maybe like the middle sounds like not super high or 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:05.560 super low. 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:07.280 That's what I was gonna say. But the humans are 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:07.760 in the middle. 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:11.880 I don't know what middle of what though, depending on 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:16.520 their gender, Like women would hear babies crying the best, 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:20.360 because I've heard stories that they often are moiasily working 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.360 up by that related to our size, Larger animals can 0:05:24.480 --> 0:05:28.400 hear sounds with longer wavelengths. Smaller animals can hear sounds 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:32.720 with shorter wavelength high beach that sounds. Females tend to 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:37.800 hear higher frequencies better, possibly to help them hear their 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:41.200 offspring when they're crying or something similar. 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:45.000 Sounds that already stand out from the background and from 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:45.560 each other. 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:48.120 As a new mom, I want to say a baby crying. 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.440 These are great guesses and hilarious stories. Thank you very 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:54.200 much exterdinaries, and they're basically what I would have guessed. 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:56.120 You know that there's some range we can hear and 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.400 obviously ranges we can't hear, and that's going to be 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:00.880 tuned to our survival. 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:04.560 Yes, biology is the answer, and that's great. That's how 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:06.080 we know that. It's an interesting question. 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:09.440 No, it's a harmonious blend of biology and physics. It's 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:11.480 biology taking advantage of. 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:16.080 Physics, biophysics biofirst, but yes, biophysics. 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:20.840 You know, I think if biophysics means biology, it's modifying physics. 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:22.839 So it's at its core physics. 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:24.880 Well, you know, you and I could be at this 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:28.120 all day, and so we thought before we invited Matt 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:30.040 onto the show, we would let Daniel do a little 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:33.120 bit of his physics magic and talk about the physics 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.440 of sound. So we're going to dig into that a 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:39.480 little bit, and then we are going to bring Matt on. So, Daniel, 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:40.680 what is sound? 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:44.440 Yeah, so sound is not a thing. It's like an 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:48.400 arrangement of stuff. It's a traveling pattern of pressure changes 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:54.080 in matter. So if something is vibrating like a guitar string, 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:58.080 it's going to push and pull on nearby molecules creating 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.720 regions of compression and the regions when things are less dense, 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:05.240 and so those pressure changes then move through the medium. 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:08.520 Like if you slap your hand on the table, you're 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:12.520 creating momentary high pressure in the molecules on that table, 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:13.960 and they push on the ones next to it, and 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:15.680 they push on the ones next to it, so that 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:19.000 pressure wave travels right. And so this is a wave 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:22.240 that needs a medium. It moves through a medium. It's 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:27.160 a rearrangement through time of the relationship between the molecules 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:27.880 in the medium. 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:32.160 So I'm feeling even more amazed now by the microphone 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:37.120 that's sitting on my desk. How does those like squishiness 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:41.720 of the air get transferred into something my microphone can 0:07:41.880 --> 0:07:42.640 play back to you. 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.800 Yes, so a speaker and a microphone are basically the 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:49.400 inverse of each other, right, So let's do a speaker first. 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:53.640 A speaker creates the sound. So there's something inside the speaker, 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.920 like a cone that moves back and forth. It's literally 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:00.960 physically mechanically moving at the frequent you want to create. 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.160 So we think about sound in terms of frequencies the 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:06.800 same way we think about light in terms of frequencies 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:09.240 you can have like red light and blue light or 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.600 green light. They are all vibrations of the electromagnetic field 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.920 at different frequencies. Sound has frequencies also, you can have 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:20.760 low frequencies and high frequencies, Daniel frequencies and Kelly frequencies exactly. 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:25.120 And so a speaker can make these by shaking effectively 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:28.480 a drum or a cone at that frequency. So if 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:31.720 you shake the cone at four hundred and forty hertz, 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:34.480 it's going to create four hundred and forty hertz sound, 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:37.600 just the same way that like a radio antenna oscillates 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:41.439 electrons at a certain frequency and creates photons or electromagnetic 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:44.880 waves at that frequency. So you have mechanical vibration. In 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:47.959 the case of sound transmits pressure waves to the air. 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:52.000 The microphone is essentially inverse pressure waves in the air 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:56.040 vibrates something sensitive, So you're converting pressure waves in the 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:59.400 air to physical vibrations of something, and then you just 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:02.880 need a divide that's going to record those vibrations. For example, 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:06.160 you could transmit them onto vinyl, or you could digitize 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.800 them and store them on a computer. So a microphone 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:10.960 or a speaker essentially inverses of each other. 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.440 Okay, I'm still amazed that we figured out how to 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:16.040 do that. That's that is pretty cool. 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:17.520 It is pretty cool. And there's a lot of really 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:20.880 fascinating physics of sound, like how the speed of sound 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.840 depends on how stiff and dense the material is. So, 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.679 in air, sound travels about three hundred and forty meters 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:31.520 per second. In water, it's faster because water is denser 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:34.760 and so molecules are closer together they could push up 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:38.040 against each other easier. It's like fifteen hundred meters per second, 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:41.160 and stel it's several kilometers per second. 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:41.520 Wow. 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.640 So sound travels faster through the ground. So you know 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:47.360 those scenes where somebody's like putting their ear on the 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:49.680 ground to hear if the buffalo are coming, Like, there's 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:50.600 real physics there. 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:51.840 WHOA, that's real. 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:57.120 That's real exactly. And so the things to understand about 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.920 sound is that there's frequencies, right, so hind ones and 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.439 low ones. There's also amplitude, right, is it loud or 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:06.200 is it quiet? Those are the crucial things to understand. 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:09.600 But musical sounds or voices are much more complicated than 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.800 just like a single frequency. Right, If you ask somebody 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:15.920 with a violin to play a certain note that's going 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.960 to correspond to a certain frequency, but a violin doesn't 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:22.760 produce sound that exactly one frequency. So if you want 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:25.280 to play four hundred and forty hertz, then a violin's 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:27.839 also going to play a harmonic which means eight hundred 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.320 and eighty hertz, which sounds like another version of the 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.959 same note. You know how somebody plays like the low 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:36.520 e and a high e and a guitar. They sound 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:40.679 nice together because they beat together, they're not shifted, but 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:43.760 there are different notes, and so a violin doesn't just 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:45.880 play the four to forty. It also plays the eight 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:49.160 eighty and the thirteen twenty and the seventeen sixty. And 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:51.840 if you play a guitar or a trombone with the 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:55.080 same note, it has a different relationship with those harmonics. 0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:57.760 So you can hear a violin is different from a 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:04.599 trombone even when they're playing the same note. Why is 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:06.680 that Because they have a different set of frequencies that 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.640 they're playing. It's not a single pure frequency. And this 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:12.560 is what we call timber. This is why, like my 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:15.120 voice sounds different from somebody else's voice, even if it 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:17.360 was at the same frequency, like if you took Kelly's 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.240 voice and you shifted it down to Daniel range, oh no, 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:22.160 it would not sound like Daniels. 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:26.560 And that this was all new to me like forty 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:28.440 minutes ago when we talked to Matt, and so like 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:30.720 you know, heads up, Matt is going to mention this 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:32.640 a little bit and how he can see that in 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:35.480 the software that he uses, and that totally blew my mind. 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:38.240 I didn't realize that you were getting like harmonics of 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:40.520 people's voices and anyway, very cool, but. 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.280 There's also lots of fascinating biology here, like how the 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:46.440 human voice is actually generated. Right, you don't have like 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:49.240 a little violin in your throat, but you do have 0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.760 things that vibrate. You have the vocal chords, or sometimes 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.120 called the vocal folds. They're not like guitar strings. They're 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.680 more like vibrating valves in an airflow and faster vibration. 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:03.000 It's a higher pitch, and so like adult male voices 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:06.400 are lower because they have longer, thicker vocal folds that 0:12:06.520 --> 0:12:09.880 vibrate more slowly. And so this is why also two 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:12.120 people sing the same note but sound. 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:15.960 Different, and birds are somehow able to make at least 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:19.240 two noises at the same time, some birds, not all birds, 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:21.640 which is just absolutely like if you you should really 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:23.360 pay attention to the next time you hear a bird 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:25.360 song and try to figure out, like, wait a minute, 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.160 am I actually hearing that bird make two different notes 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:32.520 at the same time? And it's able to do that, 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:34.640 and anyway, sound is incredible and. 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:36.360 Some humans can do that too, right, this is this 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.040 like Himalayan dual note singing thing. 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:45.360 Oh, I didn't know that. I know that birds have 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:48.400 a very different like voice box than we do, so 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:50.760 that they can do that, and so now I need 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:52.920 to know what happens with the Himalayan people. 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.680 It's very hard to do, but you can train yourself 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:58.920 apparently to do that. And sound is much more complicated 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:02.079 than just like generate sound. Here a sound, you can 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:05.280 have interference effects because sound is a wave, and so 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.560 places where the pressure waves are in the same direction 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.439 will be louder, that's constructive interference, and places where they're 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.240 pushing in opposite directions it'll be weaker. And this is 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:20.000 how like noise cancelation works. Right, you play the opposite sound, 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:22.400 the one that's beating down when the other sound is 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:25.400 beating up and it cancels it out. So for example, 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:29.680 my daughter has air pods in and I say, hey, Hazel, 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.080 will you take out the trash? And her AirPod plays 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:34.199 the opposite of Hey Hazel, will you take out the trash? 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:37.040 And she hears nothing right, which is why she doesn't 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:40.360 take up the trash. Perfectly hypothetical example. 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.720 However, I would like to note that Matt mentions later 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:48.040 in the episode that noise canceling headphones don't necessarily cancel 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.280 out people talking to you. Yeah, I don't want to 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.960 get Hazel in trouble, but I'm wondering if maybe Hazel's 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:54.760 just not listening. 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:56.960 Yeah, there may be a few effects going on here. 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:01.000 But this goes into like the design of concert right, 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.600 because sound reflects and it can cancel out. So you 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.679 can have like dead spots in a room where you 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.320 can't hear someone from across the room, or places where 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:12.520 the sound all balances really really well. And this makes 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:14.800 a big difference between like a bad concert hall and 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:17.439 a good concert hall where like every seat sounds good 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:21.320 or more seats sound really good. You could also have 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:23.880 beating sounds, like if you have two sounds, they're very 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.560 similar to each other very close, but not quite on 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:28.880 top of each other. Like if you play your guitar 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:30.840 tuner at e and then you play your guitar but 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:40.280 it's not quite in tune. You'll hear this, Like, those 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.600 are the waves drifting out of alignment, right, you'll hear 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.200 them because they're not beating in sync harmonic like for 0:14:47.200 --> 0:14:50.240 forty and a eighty. They have the down moments at 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:52.280 the same time, and so they sound nice. 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:54.640 I miss that. Could you make that sound again? 0:14:57.360 --> 0:14:59.080 Mac can make that your ring toney for you if 0:14:59.120 --> 0:14:59.440 you like. 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:01.680 That would be great. 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:04.120 And then there's a lot of work that needs to 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:06.640 be done when you're like doing noise removal. And Matt's 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:08.880 gonna tell us all about that when he gets here. 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:12.920 All right, so let us delay no longer, actually quick 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:16.240 delay we're gonna do. We're gonna do a commercial break, 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:18.520 and then when we come back, we will bring Matt 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:19.000 on the show. 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.160 The Great Matt Kesselman. 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.480 Matt Kesselman is an audio engineer and producer with over 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:48.560 two decades of multidisciplinary experience in the fields of film production, 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:52.840 audio post production, and music. Matt has worked with artists 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:57.520 and broadcasters like Netflix, the BBC, Lionsgate, Walk Off the Earth, 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:01.120 Ill Scarlet and many others. He developed software tools for 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:05.360 audio engineers through his company Oslot Audio. He brings over 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.160 a decade of teaching and communication experience to the table 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.080 as a college professor at Metalworks Institute, where he is 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:14.280 currently and before that at Durham College. He's also the 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.880 amazing audio engineer and sound designer behind dk EU. He's 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.040 the guy who makes us sound not horrible. Thanks for 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:21.920 joining us, Matt. 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.440 He's also the guy who has a shocking amount of 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:26.000 blackmail material on both of us. 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:30.080 That's right, that's all true. I'm a little nervous. I 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.120 feel like am I the first guest that doesn't have 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:36.840 a PhD? Oh not even in like chemistry. 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:39.600 Wow, I didn't realize we were gate keeping the guests. 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:41.040 That's right, Oh my gosh. 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:43.920 I mean you folks try to find the secrets to 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:47.080 life and how to better all of humankind. And I 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:50.720 once produced a song called Candy g String. So we're 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.840 a little different. So I'll try to cold man of 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:55.120 the bargain and make this entertaining. 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.240 Well, that's what makes us a harmonious collaboration. Everybody brings 0:16:58.240 --> 0:16:58.960 their strengths. 0:16:59.200 --> 0:16:59.680 That's right. 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:03.200 Well, maybe we should start actually by telling the story 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:05.639 of how we got connected to you, Matt, how you 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.280 ended up being the audio engineer for the pod. 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:12.960 Yeah, how indeed. Well, I was a fan for a 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:17.400 long time, and I think, like all the other Extraordinaries, 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:19.880 I was listening before we were even called the Extraordinaries. 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:22.000 But I always have questions and I always want to 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:26.640 know how things work. And a lot of popular science. 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:30.199 I can only consume popular science because I am not 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:32.159 smart enough, but a lot of it, you know, I 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:34.560 don't believe. That leaves me wanting and I feel like 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.560 there's something missing, and then there's conflicting things in different 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:40.320 popular science publications. And then I found you guys, and 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:43.520 you break it down and that was really enjoyable. And 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:45.760 then I thought, why don't I just tell them that 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.480 I can make them sound even better? 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:52.560 Yeah, we got an email out of the blue from 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:56.280 you saying, hey, I have notes on your audio engineering, 0:17:56.880 --> 0:17:59.280 and we dug into it with you, and then eventually 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.520 we were like, hey, why do you come make the 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:02.200 show better? 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:06.600 And we haven't looked back yet, and so one of 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:08.600 the reasons we're super excited to have you on the 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:11.200 show is because after Daniel and I do a listener 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:15.600 questions episode, we always send the raw audio file export 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:17.840 it from riverside out to the listeners so that they 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.000 have plenty of time to listen to our conversation and 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:24.399 send us an audio file responding. And almost every single 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:29.680 one of them is like, Wow, this sounds awful. Your 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:35.119 audio guy must do so much work, and so we 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:36.720 thought that it would be great to have you on 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.200 the show to like pull back the curtain and talk 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.440 about like when Kelly forgets to turn off her air conditioner, 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:44.679 how do you remove that sound, and like all of 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:46.240 the work that you have to do to make us 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:49.240 sound good. Where does that start? 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:53.200 Okay? Well, first of all, I want to point out 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.399 that there are different kinds of podcasts that have different needs. Right, 0:18:56.440 --> 0:19:01.119 everybody's familiar with the comedians just talking with no editing, 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:03.359 with no nothing, and they leave all the mistakes in 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:06.600 and that's part of the charm. They're also narrative podcast 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:08.440 that tell a story kind of like a movie, and 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:10.920 our very own network has a few examples of that, 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.880 like Red Elvis and the buzz Aldrin Show. I don't 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.320 know if you've heard that one, but then there's also 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:22.600 the informative kind where you're basically enjoying a lecture. And 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:26.000 I feel like this is kind of like a lecture 0:19:26.440 --> 0:19:29.680 mixed in with some lighthearted comedy. And the thing about 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:32.400 lectures is that they take a lot of time to prepare, 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:36.080 and you two do something that very few people can do, 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:39.000 and that is that you basically deliver two lectures a week, 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:45.160 often on topics that you're not specialized in. And it's 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:48.160 no surprise that sometimes you need to write on the fly. 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:52.159 I mean, otherwise, it's just not possible for any person 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.439 to deliver that much information without having to stop and 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.280 sort of rewind and think back on it. And I 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:00.639 think we all sort of treat it that way, where 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:03.119 you have your outline and you have your idea, and 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:05.560 sometimes you come up with a new idea while we record, 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:09.520 and then you try it out a few times until 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:11.240 you get it right, and when you send it off 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:14.840 and you hope that I put it together, I feel like. 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:17.919 You really you get me, Matt, you get me. And 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:20.880 I want to start describing the podcast now as lectures 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:23.880 with light comedy, because I feel like that's actually that's 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:25.560 a pretty good description. 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.199 That's really what it is, right, It's like, yeah, weird 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:31.520 things that are very hard to understand, sometimes broken down 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:37.600 into small, bite sized, understandable pieces with some pro lapse jokes, 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:42.640 which is my favorite type of entertainment. 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.680 We need constant goat updates. You know, people are curious. 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:49.760 Well, she's kept her outsides on the inside recently, so 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:51.480 that's nice, wonderful. Yeah. 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.080 Well, from my perspective, I lean heavily into this editing 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:56.879 because I know that we can go back and fix 0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:59.879 something or say something a better way I speak to 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.520 friendly than I do in person, or if I'm like 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:05.080 lecturing to a class, I'm lecturing to a class. I 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:07.240 don't often back up and say things another way and 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:09.560