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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by the Manganese

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Speaker 1: Transporters Association of America. Instead, it is supported by the

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Speaker 1: generous contributions of people like you, our listeners on Patreon.

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Speaker 1: Visit patreon dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more

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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways, I don't just stories of things we simply

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Speaker 1: don't know the answer. To be there and welcome again

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Speaker 1: to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Steve, of course,

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Speaker 1: as always, joined by and Joe, and once again we

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Speaker 1: have a mystery. Once again we have a listener suggested mystery,

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Speaker 1: and it's an aeronautical mystery, it is. And yes, I

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Speaker 1: know there's probably somebody out there going, oh god, Steve

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Speaker 1: is doing another plane mystery. But hey with us, because

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Speaker 1: I actually sort of managed to find a story that

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Speaker 1: combines my last two episodes. Like I said, my last

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Speaker 1: two episodes. So today's story was a listener's suggestion. As

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Speaker 1: I said, it was suggested by Mr W So thank you,

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Speaker 1: sir um. And this week what we're gonna be talking

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Speaker 1: about is Air Force pilot Captain Craig D. Button, who

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Speaker 1: died when his A ten Thunderbolt to better known as

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Speaker 1: a ward Hog, crashed into the side of gold Dust

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Speaker 1: Peak in the Rocky Mountain Rain in Colorado. Button it

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Speaker 1: apparently gone completely off mission. He had no reason to

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Speaker 1: be in that area. He kind of did. He sort

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Speaker 1: wandered off the reservation. Yeah, a little bit. So before

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Speaker 1: we get in the mystery, let's do a little bit

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Speaker 1: of backstory here. Let's talk about Mr. Button. That was

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Speaker 1: his last name. That was the name his parents gave him,

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Speaker 1: which their parents probably gave before them. That's how this works.

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Speaker 1: Job Okay, Well one of their parents gave them one

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Speaker 1: of them. Well they theoretically they were both married, so

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Speaker 1: they they would have this is never mind, let's just

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Speaker 1: keep moving forward. Does his name plane work? Oh it's

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Speaker 1: going to be a long night. Um so, no, Craig Button.

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Speaker 1: At the time of his death, he was thirty two

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Speaker 1: years old. He had been flying plane since his late teens,

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Speaker 1: and he was always described as a straight shooter. He

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Speaker 1: didn't smoke, he almost never drank. He went to college

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Speaker 1: at the New York Institute of Technology, and while he

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Speaker 1: was there, he was in the Air Force r OTC program, which,

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Speaker 1: for people who don't know, is the Reserve Officer Training

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Speaker 1: corps UM. And while he was there, when he graduated.

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Speaker 1: He got a degree in aerospace engineering, which doesn't smart guy,

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Speaker 1: and it's probably not easy to get. I don't imagine

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Speaker 1: that is an easy degree. Now, it's too bad to

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Speaker 1: crash this planet going for him, he really did. Hey,

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Speaker 1: did we say what year this is? This is is

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Speaker 1: when this whole thing goes down? Sorry, I just realized

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Speaker 1: I had no idea what time frame we're Well, that's

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Speaker 1: that's because I was giving the backstory first and then

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Speaker 1: we were going to jump forward to the actual time.

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Speaker 1: So we are not yet in We are instead in

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Speaker 1: the early nineties when he was in college. He graduated

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Speaker 1: and almost it sounds like, basically immediately turned around and

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Speaker 1: went into the US Air Force. That's kind of the

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Speaker 1: way our TC works. I think they give you a scholarship,

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Speaker 1: then you turn around and you've got to kind of join.

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Speaker 1: You kind of gotta repay it in a way. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: But you know the thing is is that he seemed

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Speaker 1: to be totally happy in the Air Force. He initially,

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Speaker 1: after basic training, he spent four years at Laflett Air

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Speaker 1: Force Base, which is in Texas. He was a flight

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Speaker 1: instructor there and then later after that four year stint,

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Speaker 1: he transferred to Davis month And Air Force Base, which

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Speaker 1: is in Arizona. He was going to go too into

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Speaker 1: the training program for flying the ten. I'd love to

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Speaker 1: fly Award Hog. It's cool plane. We should talk about

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Speaker 1: we should talk about it real quickly. What you probably do.

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people do know what

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Speaker 1: the word hog is. By look, you just probably don't

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Speaker 1: know the name. It's a it's a very distinct looking plane.

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Speaker 1: It's a single seater, so there's no copilot, it's just

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Speaker 1: the pilot. It's got kind of a stubby nose in

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Speaker 1: the front and the kind of horizontal tail that the

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Speaker 1: H shaped tail, which means there's the horizontal fin and

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Speaker 1: then a vertical on each side. But the most distinguishing

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Speaker 1: feature is its engines, which are mounted on between the

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Speaker 1: wing and the tail and above them, and it's there

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Speaker 1: directed amounted directly onto the fuselage. So it's got these big,

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Speaker 1: huge turbans attached to the side of Yeah, and it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a it's an ugly plane, but I it's

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Speaker 1: pretty in its own way. And the other thing about

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Speaker 1: it too, is it doesn't have like your typical jets,

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Speaker 1: and unlike a typical jets. It doesn't have the sweatback

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Speaker 1: stubby wings. They're straight, nice, big, straight, horizontal, rectangular wings,

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Speaker 1: which is great because it gives it a really nice,

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Speaker 1: really low stall speed. Yeh, stall speed on that things

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Speaker 1: hud twenty miles an hour. And that's without flaps. Because

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Speaker 1: I saw what in an air show once and he

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Speaker 1: flew right by in front of us really low, I

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Speaker 1: mean really low, and then and then it just turned

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Speaker 1: his nose up like this and took off again. But

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Speaker 1: I could swear he was going a lot slower than

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Speaker 1: folks too, don't know. Stall speed is when the thing

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Speaker 1: stops flying. Yeah, that's what that's what starts to falla fly.

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Speaker 1: But no, they're they're really cool. They are. They're very

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Speaker 1: blatantly designed for one thing, and that is blowing stuff up. Though.

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Speaker 1: Um it's got that stubby nose because it's got a

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Speaker 1: giant thirty millimeter can in in the nose and that cannon.

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Speaker 1: The fuselage of the body of the plane is actually

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Speaker 1: built around that cannon. It's so huge. The wings are

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Speaker 1: meant to hold all kinds of munitions. I saw a

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Speaker 1: picture of one that was banking and it looked I

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Speaker 1: think there was a total of ten projectiles on it,

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Speaker 1: so it was all kinds of different missiles and bombs

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Speaker 1: and the thing was just like bristling for wars, like

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Speaker 1: don't mess with it. It's gonna throw everything. And plus

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Speaker 1: that thirty mechanic can really lay down some fire. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it drops an amazing amount of ammunition in a second.

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Speaker 1: It's it's really it's crazy. It's the depleted geranium bullets.

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Speaker 1: And when they want to be armor piercing, yeah, yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: and they can take out a tank real easy. And

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Speaker 1: that's that's and that's what that slow saw speed really

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Speaker 1: comes in handy because if you're going over like a

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Speaker 1: column like a tank Callum or something like that, you

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Speaker 1: gotta take your sweet time and just you know, and

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Speaker 1: get lots of rounds into each one of them. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: going as fast as you can and hoping that you

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Speaker 1: hit them with something. Yes, So it has a military advantage. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And just just to editorialize a little bit, every periodically

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Speaker 1: the Air Force announces that they're going to phase out

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Speaker 1: the A ten. They've done it at least a couple

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Speaker 1: of times now, and you know, I think it's a

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Speaker 1: ploy to just get Congress to pony up more cash

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Speaker 1: and just says, uh, you know, we want to face

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Speaker 1: out the A ten because you know, we just think

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Speaker 1: that we do it with supply lines and support personnel

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Speaker 1: and all that stuff. It will save us a bunch

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Speaker 1: of money we can put towards our fancier stuff. And

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Speaker 1: and and everybody else says, are you freaking crazy? And

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Speaker 1: then and then and then Congress ponies up a little

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Speaker 1: more money. So I don't think they really intend to

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Speaker 1: do service for a long time. Well, they're planning on

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Speaker 1: keeping them in service for a whole lot longer. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's what I means. They've been in service for a

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Speaker 1: long time. They as far as I look. When I

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Speaker 1: looked at it, it doesn't appear that they're making new

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Speaker 1: A tens. They're just maintaining their existing stock. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: they built a lot of these things. They did. They

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Speaker 1: really did enough about the A ten. We're gonna go

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Speaker 1: ahead and we're gonna jump to February. Um Button started

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Speaker 1: his A ten training at Davis monthon the third of February.

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Speaker 1: It's a a D two day program, so he should

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Speaker 1: have been done sometime in the spring, and at that

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Speaker 1: point he was scheduled to strang to transfer out to. Oh, Joe,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna have to help me with the name of

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Speaker 1: this air base. Okay, I'll go with that. Which is

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Speaker 1: an air Yeah, which is an air base in Germany. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: upon completion of his training, he already had orders to

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Speaker 1: ship out to somewhere else, so he was expected to

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Speaker 1: obviously passage training. We're gonna move about two months into

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Speaker 1: his training to the second of April, Button and two

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Speaker 1: other planes take off. They have a mission where they're

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Speaker 1: gonna fly from Davis month and Air Force Base to

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Speaker 1: what's called the Goldwater Gunnering Range, which is kind of

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Speaker 1: near Hella Bend, Arizona. And for a bit of reference,

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Speaker 1: Hella Bend is on the very bottom edge of the state.

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Speaker 1: It's about a hundred miles or a hundred sixty pometers

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Speaker 1: from the Mexico border. And it's also about a hundred

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Speaker 1: miles I believe it is west of the actual air

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Speaker 1: Force base, so's it's kind of in the middle of nowhere.

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Speaker 1: And where's Davis Monthum, it's about a hundred miles or

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Speaker 1: so from Phoenix, Arizona. And that's a that's an off

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Speaker 1: the top of my head, Yes, yes, yeah, Usually these

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Speaker 1: bombing ranges that could usually kind of out yeah for goods,

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Speaker 1: because you don't want a bunch of people around. So

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Speaker 1: the the U. S. Air Force, they don't typically make

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Speaker 1: their practice runs a straight line. You want to get

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Speaker 1: some time on the sticks, so they would They were

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Speaker 1: known for doing things like circling around the state and

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Speaker 1: taking kind of a roundabout route to get to the

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Speaker 1: gunnery range. And indeed that appears to be what they did.

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Speaker 1: Before they got to the gunnery range, all of the

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Speaker 1: planes in his formation fueled up. So in air fueling,

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Speaker 1: which is not an easy thing. We were just talking

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Speaker 1: about this. It's like, try to get a straw at

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Speaker 1: four hundred miles an hour onto something below you. I can't.

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Speaker 1: It sounds amazingly, but all the wind speed is really

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Speaker 1: what I'm reacting to, and they probably don't do it

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Speaker 1: four hundred miles an hour. It's definitely hard though. It's crazy,

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Speaker 1: I would think, especially in turbulence, and there's turbulence quite

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Speaker 1: a lot of the time about Yeah. So they go

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Speaker 1: through this fueling process and then Button drops back behind

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Speaker 1: the other two planes and a bit of a follow

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Speaker 1: the leader formation, and this is expected, and then all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden he um turns and he leaves the

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Speaker 1: formation and the mission leader sees him flying away and

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Speaker 1: calls him on the radio, but he doesn't respond. As

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Speaker 1: a matter of fact, he's turned off. This plane, by

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Speaker 1: the way, has three radios on it. He turns off

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Speaker 1: all of his radios or stops responding to them, and

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Speaker 1: he turns off his transponders for tracking purposes, and he

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Speaker 1: just goes dark, and he just flies away and heads

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Speaker 1: off in a northeasterly past and he's gone from there,

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Speaker 1: it is, And the U. S. Air Force really didn't

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Speaker 1: know what to make of it, and they had no

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Speaker 1: idea what was going on. And it took nearly two

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Speaker 1: weeks to piece together where he had gone and what

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Speaker 1: had happened, based on sightings from people on the ground, because,

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Speaker 1: like we talked about, this plane is so recognizable, its

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Speaker 1: profile is very unique. And then they started finding records

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Speaker 1: in uh airfield's radar logs to say that they had

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Speaker 1: spotted him, that nobody evidently got a hold of him.

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Speaker 1: And interesting, isn't it. Yeah, seem wrong. It seems a

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Speaker 1: little weird that nobody contacted him more recorded, Hey, what

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Speaker 1: the hell is going on? Yeah? I mean, it's if

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Speaker 1: there's a plane, right basically a bogey that's not responding

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Speaker 1: at all, and it's not that nobody plan and like

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Speaker 1: there's a report of it being like heavily laden with munitions.

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Speaker 1: They wouldn't see that that, but you don't know, like

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Speaker 1: somebody might call I don't know any even if not

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Speaker 1: thought that he had gone down somewhere in the area

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Speaker 1: of where he had broke formation. So that is one

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Speaker 1: thing to keep in Even if they had didn't have

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Speaker 1: reports of you know, him being having munitions or anything

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Speaker 1: like that, it's still like a war vehicle that's not responding.

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Speaker 1: That's just very expensive vehicle yet through. But that also

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Speaker 1: you know, any of the any of the airspace that

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Speaker 1: he was flying through, was like, oh, we don't know

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Speaker 1: why that's there, but okay, you're not responding, no problem,

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Speaker 1: we won't send someone to figure out what's going on.

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Speaker 1: You're definitely not going to do any kind of like

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Speaker 1: terrorist e blowy uppy things. Well, now, the a of

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Speaker 1: the airfields he was going past, you're talking about people

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Speaker 1: that small, the small airfields. There's not like he was

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Speaker 1: going past Denver International Airport and get picked up. Although

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Speaker 1: that is the direction he ends up going. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: let's because because they were able to piece all this together,

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Speaker 1: we we have an idea of his path. So he

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Speaker 1: after he breaks formation, he spotted flying northeast past Lake Roosevelt,

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Speaker 1: which is in Arizona, and that itself is about a

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Speaker 1: hundred miles or hundred sixty kilometers northeast of Phoenix and

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Speaker 1: at about and that's at about twelve thirty. And then

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Speaker 1: he's seen passing near Tell Your Ride, Colorado around one

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Speaker 1: o'clock that day, one oh eight pm, which is kind

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Speaker 1: of a weirdly specific time. But he's spotted near Montrose, Colorado.

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Speaker 1: When did he take off? He took off just before noon,

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Speaker 1: just several minutes before twelve, so he made he made

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Speaker 1: really good time. So in an hour and eight minutes

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Speaker 1: they were able to puts around and then do a

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Speaker 1: refielding thing and and and he was able to take off, well, takeoff,

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Speaker 1: take off, I mean, when did he actually lift off

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Speaker 1: from the ground Air Force base. I have not seen

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Speaker 1: the time that his is his flight group left, I

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Speaker 1: didn't see that recorded, so I can't I can't answer that.

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Speaker 1: All I do know is I know that the time

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Speaker 1: that he broke away so I don't know exactly how

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Speaker 1: long he was in the air. Um. So he then

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Speaker 1: at that point, like I said, he goes from Montrose

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Speaker 1: from that point. Before that point, I should say he

250
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Speaker 1: had been coming in basically a straight line. He hadn't

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Speaker 1: really been changing elevation, just he's cruising from here, is

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Speaker 1: flying changes rather dramatically. He is seen flying in kind

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Speaker 1: of a zigzag pattern, and he's changing altitude. I think

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Speaker 1: it was anywhere from sixteen thousand feet to four thousand feet.

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Speaker 1: He's a great no, not a great idea in the Rockies,

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Speaker 1: you're right. Um. So, here's what his path is is

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Speaker 1: that after one oh eight, he turns a few degrees

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Speaker 1: more east and now he's going even more easterly. About

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Speaker 1: five minutes or ish later, he does a basically a

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Speaker 1: hundred n eighty degree turn and now he's heading south.

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Speaker 1: And then about five minutes later he turns again, and

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Speaker 1: now he's heading northeast again for approximately enter five or

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Speaker 1: ten minutes. And these are all approximates because it's based

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Speaker 1: on you know, sightings and stuff like that. But around

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Speaker 1: one forty in the afternoon, the residents of Aspen in

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Speaker 1: the area around it, they reported hearing a really loud explosion,

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Speaker 1: and they said they saw smoke coming from the New

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Speaker 1: York Mountain area, which is not far from gold Dust Peak.

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Speaker 1: It's no, it's basically right next door. Yeah, but then

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Speaker 1: how far is that from Aspen Ballpark? I'm going to

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Speaker 1: say that it's less than fifty miles, and that's a

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Speaker 1: ballpark number off the top of my head. I didn't

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Speaker 1: never actually trace the how far it was because I

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Speaker 1: never got an exact point for where he hit. In

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Speaker 1: other words, I never went to the uh satellite images

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Speaker 1: and tried to find that. But I have a ballpark

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Speaker 1: about fifty miles and I'm probably wrong. Well, what, obviously,

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Speaker 1: as as you've probably guessed by some of the things

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Speaker 1: that we've said so far, what those people heard was

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Speaker 1: Craig Buttons ten flying into the side of gold Dust

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Speaker 1: Peaks and s okay, so I was wrong. It's three

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Speaker 1: times as far as I thought. It was pretty dang close. Yes,

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Speaker 1: probably too far to actually hear the sound of the

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Speaker 1: plane crashing. No, just I think that they could hear

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Speaker 1: a bit of an explosion, you know, it's muffled over

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Speaker 1: and like that, or maybe something else blew up. I mean, thanks,

287
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Speaker 1: to blow up. They do. Yeah, so button hits. He

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Speaker 1: strikes the mountain at about a hundred feet below its

289
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Speaker 1: peak or thirty meters below its peak. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: the elevation of the peak of that mountain is around

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Speaker 1: two hundred feet, which is four thousand meters. When, by

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Speaker 1: the way, whether was there cover, Yes, there was some

293
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Speaker 1: cloud cover. He was seen flying around the clouds and

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Speaker 1: ducking through holes in the clouds, coming in and out.

295
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Speaker 1: So that's why people think, well, it's weird. They were

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Speaker 1: so straight and then suddenly he was flying around the weather.

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Speaker 1: It's very strange that he would be doing that all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden. But I'm guessing if he's at a

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Speaker 1: lower altitude then it might become a problem at that point.

300
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Speaker 1: Um okay. So, like I said, US Air Force to

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Speaker 1: take him a couple of weeks to figure out what's

302
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Speaker 1: going on. They then start combing the area and they

303
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,880
Speaker 1: eventually find the crash site and they're able to get

304
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Speaker 1: people onto the mountain, which takes a little bit longer

305
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Speaker 1: because the weather is really bad. You know, it's April

306
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,919
Speaker 1: or snow, it's Colorado. When they get there, though, they

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Speaker 1: discover several things. Uh. The first of which is that

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Speaker 1: they find the wreckage of his plane, and they find

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Speaker 1: his body, and they find the computer that is on

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Speaker 1: board the plane. But what they don't find is the

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Speaker 1: bombs because because by the way, I didn't mention this,

312
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Speaker 1: but his his training run was using live ammunition, and

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Speaker 1: the war Hog was carrying four five hundred pound Mark

314
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Speaker 1: two bombs. They are they're called the dumb bomb. They

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Speaker 1: are not a guided missile of any way, shape or form.

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Speaker 1: You you can, but these were not. It is a

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Speaker 1: five hundred pound bomb that when it hits the ground,

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Speaker 1: causes a big hole and blows stuff. Just a normal bomb.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of a general purpose explosives. It's not like

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Speaker 1: a nuke or anything crazy. Conventional explosives, but you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean obviously still devastating. Oh yeah, not so they

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Speaker 1: flame the effort. They can flame trapnel for like a mile.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they And we'll talk about some of the

324
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Speaker 1: specs on him in a bit, but they do. They

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Speaker 1: do some serious damp. I just wanted to make sure

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Speaker 1: we were talking like, no, no crazy weapons, so weird

327
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Speaker 1: uranium trade or something like that. Bob, Yeah, I think

328
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Speaker 1: it goes. It's pretty it's pretty apparent he or the

329
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Speaker 1: the US Air Force. As soon as they find everything

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Speaker 1: and they figure out that the marketing twos aren't there,

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Speaker 1: they start combing the entire area around the crash site.

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Speaker 1: They make a very very intense I'm I'm guessing it's

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Speaker 1: you know, it's I'm guessing that the kind of search

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00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:20,960
Speaker 1: they did was, you know, people on foot, not just

335
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Speaker 1: circling overhead, because they're using things like ground penetrating radar.

336
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Speaker 1: Within a several mile perimeter of where the crash happens.

337
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,960
Speaker 1: There's a lot of little lakes in that area, and

338
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:36,159
Speaker 1: so they actually started sending divers into those lakes with

339
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 1: the idea that maybe the bombs dropped and they hit

340
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Speaker 1: the water and they either were not activated or they

341
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,040
Speaker 1: didn't just didn't go off because they hit the water

342
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 1: and sank, rather than going in those first and and

343
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Speaker 1: of course this search, you know, like I said, it

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Speaker 1: took him two weeks to figure out where where he

345
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,280
Speaker 1: was his plane had gone, and then couldn't get right

346
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 1: in right away, so it takes several weeks to get there.

347
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Speaker 1: So we're looking at like a month or two lay eater,

348
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,640
Speaker 1: because they went and did an initial search and then

349
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 1: they had to stop because of the weather. And then

350
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 1: when they got back there, because obviously the snow melt

351
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 1: had happened, the debris field has shifted downhill. So that's

352
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 1: why it was kind of tough to figure out where

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Speaker 1: everything was. But there's there's looking everywhere because they want

354
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:25,280
Speaker 1: to know where the hell are these bombs tiny? No,

355
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,440
Speaker 1: they're not at all. They're they're pretty big. And the

356
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 1: nice thing about the market D two is that the

357
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 1: pilot has to arm the bomb. It is not as

358
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Speaker 1: if they are flying around with something that it could

359
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,200
Speaker 1: just go off at anyone, because that's just foolish. But

360
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Speaker 1: they were pretty sure that he hadn't armed the bombs,

361
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Speaker 1: which is probably why they should just be laying somewhere

362
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,440
Speaker 1: and easily found. It's unlikely because I mean, they knew

363
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,120
Speaker 1: as approximate flight course and so actually they flew over

364
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 1: it looking for big craters, so that's one way to

365
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 1: know that they did not. Yeah. Um, now there's a

366
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,920
Speaker 1: couple of things here that about it. That I said

367
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Speaker 1: that the flight computer on the plane was found, and

368
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 1: that would have recorded what he had done with the bombs.

369
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Speaker 1: It would have it wouldn't have recorded say where he

370
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:16,680
Speaker 1: would have dropped them, but it would have said were

371
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Speaker 1: they dropped and were they armed wind dropped? I thought

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Speaker 1: that wasn't the most weather resistant computer though. Oh it

373
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Speaker 1: also wasn't very shock resistant because because the impact destroyed

374
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Speaker 1: it and they couldn't recover any data off of it.

375
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 1: I have read conflicting accounts of this next bit that

376
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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about here, which is the racks

377
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,879
Speaker 1: on the wings of the plane. I've seen sources that

378
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 1: said that they the racks were not disengaged. In other words,

379
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,159
Speaker 1: I think of it as a clamp. Clamp is engaged,

380
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 1: it's gonna be holding onto it, and disengaged it is

381
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 1: going to be open. They said those clamps on the

382
00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 1: struts of the wings were still engaged, so he shouldn't

383
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Speaker 1: have dropped the bomb. In other words, it couldn't. It's

384
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 1: not as if when he dropped them they close again.

385
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,360
Speaker 1: So in other words, I've heard it both ways too,

386
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,679
Speaker 1: Although if he had crashed with the bombs attached, they

387
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,119
Speaker 1: should have ripped free, and I would imagine also but

388
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 1: also that the mounds would have been also seriously ripped

389
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 1: corn off to Yeah, and the accounts that's that say

390
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 1: that he released the bombs before I've actually found more

391
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 1: credible than the other counts. So yeah, I think he

392
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: released him well before crash and he made very well.

393
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:35,960
Speaker 1: And that's that actually is kind of the end of

394
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,920
Speaker 1: the story, which actually just with two different mysteries. One

395
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 1: what did did Button commits suicide? Because that's one of

396
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: the main things you will hear. Why did he fly?

397
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 1: What what happened? Why was he there? Why did he

398
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 1: break formation? And to what happened to the market he twos?

399
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 1: So we have two mysteries and we're gonna start with

400
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:58,560
Speaker 1: the first one that I just brought up, which is

401
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,680
Speaker 1: did he or did he not actually commits suicide? Because

402
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,440
Speaker 1: that is the most popular one and you will see

403
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 1: a lot of reporting on it, and you will get

404
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff from the U. S. Air Force

405
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 1: that seems to indicate that he did intentionally commit suicide

406
00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 1: by Mountain m H. Just to clarify um real quick

407
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: before we jumped into he was like like very talented

408
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 1: right there. I knew that he was talented. He was

409
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,919
Speaker 1: a good pilot. They don't let any idiot fly that point, right,

410
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: But like compared to his peers, was he like, you know,

411
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 1: way better? He was a flight instructor for several years,

412
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 1: which I would take to indicate that he was skilled stuff. Um.

413
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: And as after that, I couldn't. I couldn't comment on

414
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: how he ranked among his his fellow airmen. Cool, Yeah,

415
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 1: I would say, you've been flying for since he was seventeen. Yeah,

416
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 1: probably a good plot and a good pilot. Yeah. Okay,

417
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 1: So first, before we even get into the theories, I

418
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: am going to say reiterate what we said earlier, which

419
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 1: is he was considered a straight shooter. He didn't smoke,

420
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: he didn't drink, and there is nothing that ever came

421
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,919
Speaker 1: up in his body that ever said that he had

422
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 1: any substance abuse issues or that he was drunk at

423
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 1: the time or anything crazy like that. So those are

424
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: easy things to just sweep out of the way. Initially,

425
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 1: there was also no evidence of hypoxia, right not. No,

426
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 1: I didn't. I saw thoughts about that, and we'll talk

427
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 1: about that a little bit more later, but I don't

428
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: believe that that was the case. First first sub theory

429
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:40,160
Speaker 1: inside of suicide is the reason was family objections. From

430
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 1: all of the accounts that I've read, Button was excited

431
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 1: about the fact that he was going to get to

432
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: transferred and go to Europe. He was happy where he was,

433
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 1: and everybody seemed to think that he was in good shape.

434
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: But according to this theory, he was actually semi secretly

435
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: struggling with his family's religious beliefs. His mother and father

436
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: were Jehovah's witnesses, and they had been in that religion

437
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: for they converted about twenty years prior to that. Now,

438
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 1: officially the Jehovah's Witnesses, they don't serve in the military.

439
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,400
Speaker 1: They pacifists, they don't believe in doing that. Um, it's

440
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: against their beliefs. And based on his age and the

441
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 1: how far back they had converted, I get the feeling

442
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: that the family converted when he was a kid, you know,

443
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: say ten twelve, somewhere in that age system. And I

444
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 1: don't believe that he actually became a member of the church,

445
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 1: which would explain why he went into the Air Force.

446
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: But his wasn't. His dad also the World War two

447
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: and Vietnam era pilot, yes, but that was prior to

448
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 1: the conversion. So he did that and he served his

449
00:25:54,320 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 1: military career before finding his faith. According to this the

450
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: thing is is that his mother, because of the religious beliefs,

451
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: she was not happy about him being in the military,

452
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 1: and she tried to convince him to leave the military

453
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: on a very regular basis. Uh. In some families, that

454
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 1: is known as nagging mom. I don't know how these

455
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 1: conversations went, but I get the feeling that sometimes they

456
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,679
Speaker 1: weren't always the happiest affairs. But you know, I can

457
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: think of alternatives to suicide. If you've got that issue.

458
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: Number One, mom gets your way. Number Two, you just

459
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: don't talk to mom that much. There's there's a number

460
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: of ways around this, but we're going to continue on

461
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 1: with it. Even though Joe has a simple solution there,

462
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 1: that's what I would have done. So there he goes,

463
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 1: Button experiences a crisis of faith when he realizes, as

464
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: some people have said, he said, he was being trained

465
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 1: to kill people, and it was this crisis that made

466
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: him decide instead of just simply quitting to take his

467
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: own life. To be it's probably a little more complicated

468
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: than that. Very unsimplifying this a lot. Well. I just mean,

469
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 1: if he did the r OTC program right, he owed

470
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: the U. S. Government a ton of money. If he

471
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: were to say, hey, I know you guys just paid

472
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: for me to full ride through four years of college.

473
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 1: But I'm not saying that he like actively owed. But

474
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: I don't think you can just drop out of the

475
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: military two months after. But but they don't full ride,

476
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: you believe me. I remember, guys, I was in college

477
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: at the same time as this guy, and I remember

478
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: the kids in the r OTC program when I was there,

479
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: and they it was they got a healthy amount, but

480
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: it wasn't as if the the r OTC paid them

481
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 1: a full ride because they hey, college kids are unreliable

482
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: and they can't support every one of the little boogers. Well, okay,

483
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: so he did, he was required to serve a certain

484
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 1: amount of time. He would have owed them a lot

485
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: of money. That he definitely would. But I mean, don't

486
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: go into the r OTC because their parents can pay

487
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,640
Speaker 1: for their college because they're from really well off families

488
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 1: usually right, because they need help paying for it. Yeah,

489
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 1: So I just I mean, I think it's a little

490
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: more complicated than like, oh, he could have just quit

491
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 1: his job. Well now, I mean, nobody's saying it could

492
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: have quit his job, even you know, money aside. That's

493
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: just not the way the military works. You signed, you

494
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: sign your papers year four years or six years. But

495
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: you know, there's there's also the thing called the transfer.

496
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 1: You can say, I have an issue. I am now

497
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: I've I've taken on this faith and i cannot fly.

498
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: And you know the military has to have somebody that

499
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: cleans the bathroom. Well, he could have gone back to

500
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: being a flight instructor. Yeah, he could have done a

501
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: million things. But now here's the other thing is is,

502
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: from what I've heard, he said he really enjoyed blasting

503
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 1: away with that thirty milita candy. And well, let's yeah,

504
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: so that's the quote here and that's out. I mean, yeah,

505
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: let's let's get to that right now. So we're gonna

506
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna go back to the family, which is the

507
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: family had visited in March, both his parents, and they

508
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 1: said it was a great visit and he was happy

509
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: and there was no problems. Um, there was no disagreements.

510
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: And he apparently also he kept in touch with the

511
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: people that he had been renting from when he was

512
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: stationed in Texas, and he had written them a letter.

513
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: Because this is back in the day when you still

514
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: wrote real letters and sent them by mail letters such

515
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: an antiquated system. But no, so he sends them a

516
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: letter Strangely enough, they received that letter on the second

517
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: of April, which is a little weird. But the letter says, actually, Joe,

518
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: do you mind reading this? It's no, no, in your voice,

519
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 1: not in your German voice? Okay? Uh quote. Flying is

520
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: going well. I love the ten Most everything we do

521
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: is low level. I'll be dropping live bombs this week.

522
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: The gun is a blast my phone for a week

523
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 1: just recently, and I took them to the Grand Canyon.

524
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: Would you believe they had never been there before? Unquote?

525
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: So that's that sounds like a very excited, happy guy

526
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: doing what he really likes to do. Yeah, who you

527
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: could blow things up? Yeah? Well, flying through the air?

528
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? Oh? Yeah, I believe me. I had.

529
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: My dad was in the military for years and he

530
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: loved the fact that he got the blow stuff up. Yeah.

531
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: I will just add to this theory. The thing that

532
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: we always say around suicides doesn't mean that he had

533
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: to have been I mean, you know, this isn't contingent

534
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: on him have been, you know, particularly unhappy with that situation.

535
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: He could have been hiding things. You know, people who

536
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: appear happy killed themselves all the time. We don't want

537
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: to belittle that. But let's talk about some other theories. Yeah,

538
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: so that is the end of that theory. So we're

539
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: going to go to uh sub theory too, which is

540
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: the jilted lover theory. I feel like every time we

541
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: do anything that's like air disappear or military or both

542
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: really together of military artist appearance, there's always the jilted lover,

543
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 1: and there's always the next one. Oh well, well, what

544
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: about the the naval ones. The naval ones always have it.

545
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: Half the US the UFO ones have this, and I actually,

546
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: you know what, we should just make this a standard

547
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: filler for all scripts. Actually don't. We just fell out

548
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 1: a form anyway, we do see TPS report that's the one,

549
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: not the TSP, the TPN. Yeah, the TSP TPS when

550
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: we fill up. Okay, so no, the jilted lover. According

551
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: to this theory, when Button joined the Air Force, he

552
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: had a relationship with another classmate, and according to this reporting,

553
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: he kind of sort of asked her to marry him

554
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: and she turned him down, and that apparently he took

555
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: that quite hard and it took him several years to

556
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: get over. She apparently called him at the in Christmas

557
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: and I don't know if they talked or was just

558
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: left a message kind of scenario. I don't know. Um,

559
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 1: I may be able to shed some light on this

560
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: having dated someone who was in basic training ones, which

561
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: I think is similar to this. You can't call them.

562
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: I mean, well, they were both in the in the service,

563
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 1: they were both she was also in the program. I

564
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: don't know how that deals with at that point, but

565
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: it's hard to get in contact with people who are

566
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: in this sort of basic training. This is this is

567
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: well past his basic training. I'm sorry, in any kind

568
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 1: of training situation in the military, it is hard to

569
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: get a hold of somebody. Okay, possibly maybe not now,

570
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 1: but maybe back twenty years ago. No, actually it's still

571
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: kind of hardy. They cut down the lines of communication.

572
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: They really kind of you get to have your cell

573
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: phone out there in the trenches. No, it turns out

574
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: that Google maps not so good with the trenches. Neither

575
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: his sirie. Okay, don't know what happens here is in

576
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: nineties six Apparently she calls uh, he calls her back

577
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: on the first of April, or calls her. I don't

578
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: think they had had contact between Christmas, and then she's

579
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 1: unable to talk at that time, though, and she takes

580
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: his phone number down and then she calls him back

581
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: on the fifth or the sixth of April, unaware that

582
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: he had he had taken his plane and gone a wall.

583
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: According to this theory, after we know this a little

584
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 1: bit about this lady, the theory goes that he realized

585
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: that he was in love with her and she wouldn't

586
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: talk to him, and that coupled with the fact no joke,

587
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: this is part of the theory that he had bought

588
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:43,719
Speaker 1: a VCR at a copy of The Bridges of Madison County.

589
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: That was what pushed him over the edge. So that

590
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 1: the last movie that poor guy ever saw that's the

591
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 1: one that he bought with the VHS player. And by

592
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: the way, this theory, this comes from the psychological autopsy

593
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: that was by the US Air Force. And I've never

594
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: heard of a psychological autopsy before. I can sort of

595
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: see that. Can someone please tell me the plot of

596
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: Bridges of Medicine County. It is a sad love not

597
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 1: meant to be movie with Clint Eastwood and some other

598
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: actress Barrel Street, and they they want to be but

599
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: their lives won't let them and move. I never saw

600
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 1: that movie. I never want to Oh, I don't, I

601
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: don't ever want to watch like fifteen minutes once and

602
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: then I ran, I've literally never heard of it. So

603
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 1: you'll be trying for weeks. I'm a bad girl. I

604
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 1: guess you are that. You know what I mean? Seriously

605
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: to me, I don't want to see Clint Eastwood on

606
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 1: the screen without a gun in his hands. Know his son,

607
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: Scott Eastwood. I would see him any day of the

608
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: all right, you too back on topic here, So we're

609
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: gonna move from that silly theory to another silly theory,

610
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: which is suicide sub theory three gay lover. Yep, this

611
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: one's always in there as well. And I'm gonna say

612
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 1: right now, I couldn't substantiate this except for a few

613
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: places which mentioned a supposed undisclosed US Air Force insider

614
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 1: who said that the Air Force had discovered that Craig

615
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: Button was in the closet. No, this is something that

616
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,239
Speaker 1: came out and uh and has been out there for

617
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: a while. Sorry that was a bad turn of phrase. Um,

618
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: but no, this was out there for a while. And

619
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: that's it's really There's not a whole lot to this, Joe,

620
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: nothing to back it up. That's one and a half paragraphs. Yes,

621
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: and that's because I patted it with a little bit

622
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 1: of history. So the story goes that one of Craig's

623
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 1: previous lovers was planning to come forward and disclose their relationship.

624
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: And today that doesn't seem like it's a big deal.

625
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm air quoting. Wouldn't be a big deal.

626
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: It wouldn't be a big deal to day, he shouldn't

627
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: be a big deal. But but at the time, this

628
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: is ninety seven, and in ninety four, Bill Clinton had

629
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 1: signed into effect Don't Ask, Don't Tell, which said that

630
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 1: if you were a closet, if you were in the closet,

631
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: you could be a service member, but if you were

632
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: out of the closet, you could not serve in any

633
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 1: branch of the U. S. Military. I mean, it's it's

634
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 1: it's a it's a huge known thing. But that would

635
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: have meant, according to this law, that means that this

636
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: person coming forward would have been the end of his

637
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: military career, dish honorable discharge. Right, I'm not sure if no, no,

638
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: not not by I mean in the days of McCarthy, Yeah,

639
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,800
Speaker 1: that had totally been a court martial but not not

640
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 1: at this point. But I think it was a discharge.

641
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: It was definitely wasn't an honorable discharge either, but I

642
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,919
Speaker 1: don't remember the specifics of how they did it. Yeah,

643
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: there there's like honorable general and dishonorable. And I don't

644
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: think they're gonna waste time on a court martial. Even

645
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 1: back in the old days, they just discharge you, Yeah,

646
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 1: wasting time on a trial. Right, what about gay suicide Pact? No, no,

647
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:15,439
Speaker 1: I haven't and we're going to leave that alone because

648
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 1: that's not anywhere in here. But you just made it

649
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 1: up for fun. No, he just pulled it from a

650
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: different one, you know. Oh, that's you're looking at the

651
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 1: wrong TPS form that was on the other one from

652
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: last week. Okay, so that is the end of the

653
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: he committed suicide theory. Let's now move into Craig Button

654
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: was murdered theory. Yeah, because this one is well, this

655
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 1: is interesting, is how I'm gonna put it. There's a

656
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: gentleman by the name of William W. Warwick the Fourth.

657
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: I read some of the stuff I have too. I've

658
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 1: read a lot of his stuff actually, and he makes

659
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: a lot of claims he's connected this story to some

660
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: UFO sightings and he's he's jen really made a big

661
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: stink on the internet about it. So here try to

662
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 1: connect this to like nine eleven. Uh, you know, he

663
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: may have and I probably just didn't go that far

664
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: through his stuff. It's how you can do that. But

665
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 1: you know, he's very creative in his ways. He is.

666
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: He's a very creative man. So here is what Warwick says.

667
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: On the thirteenth of March. A series of unexplained lights

668
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: are seen in the night sky over Phoenix. That is

669
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: what is commonly referred to as the Phoenix Lights, and

670
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 1: it is a UFO citing. It is something that we

671
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:37,560
Speaker 1: may talk about in the future. So I'm just going

672
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 1: to give the barest, simplest description of the event, which

673
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: is that stationary lights were seen and described they were.

674
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 1: They were first described as a pair, and then there

675
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,839
Speaker 1: was a third and then a fourth light, and then

676
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,439
Speaker 1: they went out, and then a new set of three lights.

677
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: It appeared supposedly smaller lights were peeling off of them

678
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: and then coming back to them. And then there was

679
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: also a triangular formation of lights that were seen in

680
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: the sky at a different time and a different location

681
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: of Phoenix. So there's this whole thing, like the whole

682
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,439
Speaker 1: city is freaking out because they see lights in the sky.

683
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: That is the simplest version of the Phoenix Lights. Yeah,

684
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: but I mean I've read a little bit about the

685
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: Phoenix Lights. But actually it wasn't like everybody in the

686
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: city saw these things, right, No, but a lot of

687
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: people reported it, A lot of people. But I mean

688
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: out of the population of Phoenix, really a tiny percentage

689
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: actually reported it, right. I don't I can't answer that.

690
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, Joe. I didn't do but the basest

691
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: looking into the Phoenix light because I was really focused

692
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 1: on what this guy's theory was for this. I didn't

693
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: want to cover the Phoenix Lights that way. We have

694
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: it open to someday talk about it there, Okay, Okay,

695
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: So no spoilers from Joe, but I will because here's

696
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: what the U. S. Air Force says. They said that

697
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: they actually had a set of a tens flying a

698
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: nighttime mission in the area at that time, and they're

699
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: responsible for the stationary lights because what was happening is

700
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: they were on a night time practice bombing run. But

701
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 1: rather than dropping munitions or live munitions. Even more so,

702
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,879
Speaker 1: what they were doing instead is they were dropping flares. Yeah,

703
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:26,240
Speaker 1: it makes total sense. Well, if you think about flares

704
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: from a far distance on a parachute floating through the sky,

705
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 1: you could see how people would say, oh, well, that's weird.

706
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 1: Is a stationary set of lights that's really strange. There's two,

707
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: now there's three, now there's four. So this is This

708
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: is the Air Forces description of the events where it

709
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:48,240
Speaker 1: claims that it is a complete and total cover story,

710
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 1: and that the lights really are UFOs, and that the

711
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: US Air Force is covering for some reason for the

712
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 1: e t s that were there, because of course they are,

713
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 1: because of course they are literally what the US Air

714
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 1: Force does. And Button he uh, he was possibly a

715
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 1: member of the flight crew that was covering or chasing

716
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,479
Speaker 1: the aliens. Mainly he makes his connection, I think because

717
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 1: it was a tens and buttons and a ten pilot.

718
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: But that's just my guess um. But Button, hearing all

719
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,280
Speaker 1: of this stuff four years later that's going on about

720
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 1: the Phoenix lights, decides that he's gonna blow the whole

721
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 1: thing wide open, and the U. S Air Force realizes

722
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 1: that their only course of action is to kill him.

723
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: Of course, of course, Well here's a great thing this is,

724
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 1: this is how he He makes a lot of suppositions

725
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: here and this is the one I like the best,

726
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: which is they decide to simply remotely control his plane

727
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 1: and fly it into the mountain side for him, thus

728
00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: silencing him during this this training run. So they make

729
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,800
Speaker 1: him do some weird behavior and then just fly away.

730
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: They the US Air Force. Then, uh, they well, you know, actually,

731
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 1: I guess this kind of goes in two different directions.

732
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: They could have floated into the mountain in Colorado, or

733
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: they could have just crashed his plane during the training mission.

734
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 1: It would have been simpler because going on the Colorado

735
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: is a joint pan of the butt. But then what

736
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 1: they would do, remember we found a plane in Colorado

737
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 1: that was an E ten. They would have taken wreckage

738
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 1: from an A ten and deposited it onto the mountain

739
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: side along with his body, and then later on quote

740
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 1: unquote found it to then keep their whole story stitched

741
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: together as a sound of you guys so far, well

742
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: go ahead. I guess I would say, like the zombie

743
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: plane theory makes a lot of sense to me. This

744
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 1: is something that they talked about. We talked about a

745
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 1: little bit maybe with MH three seventy where they are

746
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 1: talking about with m H three seventy, know that they

747
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:02,280
Speaker 1: would have killed him and remote controlled the entire time

748
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: from takeoff to land pilot controlled as piloted in the

749
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 1: cockpit ever um, and that they would have done the

750
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,399
Speaker 1: whole mission so that the other people who were doing

751
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 1: the mission could have corroborated the story that oh, yeah,

752
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 1: he was totally in the air with us, and he

753
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 1: was alive, and then he you know, went then he

754
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: went off and did his own thing, and like who

755
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 1: knows what happened, and that none of them would be

756
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:27,360
Speaker 1: in on it, but that the higher ups would go

757
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: and crash them into the side of a mountain, the

758
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: closest mountains they could find, which is probably about Colorado. Okay,

759
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: the closest uninhabited mountains. You know, there's mountains. They are

760
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 1: not the only hard surface on the planet, believe it

761
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:45,839
Speaker 1: or not. Turns out the planet itself is quite hard,

762
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 1: and it turns out and it and it turns out

763
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:49,839
Speaker 1: for something like that. If you really need to kill him,

764
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 1: you just have have your hitman stabbed him or strangle him,

765
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 1: and in order to remote control the plane all the

766
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: way to Colorado, you get agree with the controller and

767
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: and you gotta have somebody who installs it on the plane.

768
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: So there's there's a whole there's a whole thing that. Yeah,

769
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: there's a whole lot. And I have not heard of this.

770
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 1: We are able to remotely control and a ten. You

771
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: would think that you would not want to have that

772
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: ability on a plane so that your enemy could not

773
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 1: hijack your own plane against you. You're not going to

774
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 1: lead that stuff just you know, and routinely installed. But

775
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: that's my point is that in order to remote remotely

776
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 1: control one, you'll have to have a whole team of

777
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: guys develop all this stuff and install it on the

778
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: plane just to take out one dude, Yeah yeah, or

779
00:44:31,719 --> 00:44:34,799
Speaker 1: technically possibly take out two, as we're going to find out.

780
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: Yeah maybe, But it would be a lot easier just

781
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,959
Speaker 1: to put put a bomb on the plane, very easy.

782
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 1: That's that's that's detonated by an altimeter and you only

783
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: need one assassin to do that. Are better still just

784
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 1: murder I'm und parking lot somewhere and and that way

785
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: you don't lose it's a random crime, Yeah you don't.

786
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 1: You don't lose an expensive airframe. So we're all in

787
00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: agreement that this is kind of fetched in the farest

788
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: forest reaches of the land, but I'm gonna keep going

789
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: with it. It's it's that actually as absurd as as

790
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: the idea that they killed him somewhere else and then

791
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:10,760
Speaker 1: it just got some random wreckage from an a tenants

792
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: And well, let me let me, let me keep going

793
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: with this, because this is where this goes. Is that

794
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: Warwick again he is saying that, Okay, what's an obvious

795
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: clue that they planted this thing there? Well, one of

796
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,400
Speaker 1: the things is is that the search helicopters when they

797
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 1: were looking for him, they saw paper fluttering around on

798
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 1: the mountain side, and that's how they figured out. And

799
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 1: then they saw the metal and they figured out they

800
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 1: were in the right spot. And he says, well, how

801
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: can there be paper there when he he drove the

802
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: plane into the mountain, and how would paper survive the

803
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: obvious fireball that was gonna happen. Well, I guess more

804
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 1: of my question is like, how would paper survive the

805
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: you know, onslaught of it was a map supposedly was

806
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 1: just gives his flight maps that were flo that were

807
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:03,480
Speaker 1: just enough blowing around and stuff I don't know that

808
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: it had been snowing or or if it was just

809
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 1: really cold, crappy conditions. But they said that there was

810
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 1: paper flying around and it was supposedly a map. But

811
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: if we keep going with this, they then say that

812
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,880
Speaker 1: because um, there's further evidence that this is going on,

813
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 1: is that two weeks after he died or after his accident,

814
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 1: he dies. Uh. There is a U. S Air Force

815
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 1: captain named Amyba. I'm gonna hope that's how you pronounce

816
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:38,799
Speaker 1: her name. She died in a ten accident as well. Um,

817
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,439
Speaker 1: And according to him, and this is totally according to work.

818
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 1: I haven't seen this anywhere else. She was his trainer

819
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: when he was in Texas. So that's that's a This

820
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: is a giant leap of faith that he is saying. Now,

821
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,439
Speaker 1: there's a lot of problems obviously, as we talked about,

822
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: there's the whole remote controlling of a plane is really weird.

823
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: And I also I also have to push back on

824
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 1: the there would have been this giant fireball, so there

825
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: shouldn't have been any paper because one of the things

826
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: that you need to have for a giant fireball is

827
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:17,720
Speaker 1: a fuel source. When they did the math, they figured

828
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 1: out that at the very most, when his A ten

829
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: crashed into the side of gold Dust Peak, it had

830
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: maybe five minutes of fuel left, if any. So this

831
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 1: thing he was running on empty, which means when he

832
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 1: went in there would have been some fire, but it

833
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been as if he went in with a

834
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: full tank and it is a giant movie scene style

835
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: explosion then incinerate everything. Yeah, things don't don't explode generally speaking,

836
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 1: in like they do in the movies. But autopilot is

837
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: a thing, right, Like the autopilot could have been switched on.

838
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: It doesn't need to be remote control, like falling around

839
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 1: could have been autopilot, and then he could have just

840
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,720
Speaker 1: run out of going into our next serio. Actually perfect,

841
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 1: so let's let's let's go there because the next the

842
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 1: next theory is that he was incapacitated and or it

843
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: was an accident. So the theory goes that there there

844
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 1: is talk that he suffered some kind of accident. We're

845
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 1: pretty sure that it couldn't have been hypoxia because that

846
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 1: should have shown up in his in his blood work

847
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:26,800
Speaker 1: as far as I understand it at least, But for

848
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,719
Speaker 1: some reason other than that, he was rendered unconscious and

849
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: the plane was on autopilot almost the entire time. Now,

850
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: that's kind of easy to discount because of the fact

851
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 1: that at the last twenty minutes or whatever it was,

852
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: he was seeing changing elevations, zig zagging back and forth,

853
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: going through cloud formations like that doesn't that's not what

854
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 1: an autopilot does. Autopilots don't shut off all your radio

855
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 1: and exactly. That's also a very very good point. And

856
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 1: if there was a problem, why wouldn't he have simply

857
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 1: ejected the plane from the plane, Because by the way,

858
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: when you eject the the it sends out a beacon.

859
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:12,919
Speaker 1: You know, it's a come fined me, rescue me kind

860
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:16,800
Speaker 1: of beacon automatically on purpose. So I seem to remember

861
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 1: somewhere that pilots of the eight tens could shut that

862
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: off so that the enemy couldn't find them. But I

863
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 1: gets off the back of my head, I pull that.

864
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: I'm not sure exactly that would make sense. That does

865
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: make sense. I'm pretty sure that you can. Yeah, But

866
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 1: I mean this this whole he had some kind of

867
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 1: accident that incapacitated him kind and then he flew on

868
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: all up pilot till he suddenly woke up then crashed

869
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: into the mountain. It makes me think of like something

870
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,320
Speaker 1: that would happen in the the epic chicken fight scene

871
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 1: from Family Guy. Now, this is like one of those

872
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,640
Speaker 1: random things that they fall through and they hit a

873
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:54,360
Speaker 1: plane and you know, something happens. It's it's it's really

874
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: out there and there isn't isn't actually any evidence to

875
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 1: support that it was just some random, weirdo accident other

876
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. I mean, I wanted to

877
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 1: be just some random accid. I mean I wanted to

878
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 1: be He was on autopilot and he came to and

879
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 1: he realized he's out of fuel and he's trying to

880
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 1: search for some place to land. But just nothing that

881
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 1: really shows that's what he was doing. It doesn't make

882
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 1: any sense because, like we talked about, he could have

883
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 1: turned everything back on to find somewhere to go. Yeah,

884
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 1: he could have decided to go rogue and everything and

885
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: somehow got lost in the clouds and didn't realize there

886
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: was a mountain in front of him. He could have

887
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: misjudged his descent because like we said, he hit a

888
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 1: hundred feet for the peak he would it could have

889
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: been let's say he was out of fuel and he

890
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: was just gliding. He may have thought I've got this,

891
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,520
Speaker 1: I've got this, I've got this. Oh crap, I don't

892
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 1: got this. But then again again, why not punch out?

893
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 1: Why not get out of the airplane at that point?

894
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,560
Speaker 1: So I don't know, it's really strange if he was

895
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,520
Speaker 1: if he actually was in clouds and didn't realize he

896
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 1: was about to fly into a mountain, then boom. That's

897
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: a good point. If he was gliding through cloud coover

898
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: thinking he was safe. Yeah, and it could have been

899
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 1: he needed to be a hundred feet to the right

900
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: and the left or where he where he impacted. Um, yeah,

901
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:13,880
Speaker 1: I mean that's so that's the end of did he

902
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,919
Speaker 1: commit suicide? Was he killed? Was in an accident? Of those?

903
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 1: I don't either to be gone. I've ping ponged all

904
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: over the place on this. Yeah. Okay, So let's move

905
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: on to mystery number two, which is what happened to

906
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 1: the Mark eight twos. So the first theory of the

907
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 1: Mark eight twos is that he did not actually drop them.

908
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 1: Like I said, the US Air Force they scoured everywhere

909
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: and they don't find him. Ground penetrating radar metal detectors.

910
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: They're pretty sure that the weapons aren't armed. The reason

911
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,439
Speaker 1: I say I think that they believed there weren't armed

912
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: is that if they had been armed, upon impact, they

913
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,040
Speaker 1: would have gone blue. And those that two thousand pounds

914
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:01,280
Speaker 1: of munitions would have made a very big impact. Five pounds,

915
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: well yeah, five times four exactly. Sorry, I was doing math,

916
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 1: I'm not. I don't. I'm not known for doing math.

917
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 1: I'm not, I admit it. But yeah, So it's that

918
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 1: that two thousand pounds of munitions would have made a

919
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,800
Speaker 1: big hole in the ground, and somebody would have reported

920
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: that probably, well they should have seen that would have

921
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,360
Speaker 1: blown snow off the ground. I'm guessing, um now, And

922
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 1: I went to the manufacturer's website because you can find

923
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: this enough on the internet to look up what does

924
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: the A two or they excuse me, the mark eight

925
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: two do and it blows it? Yeah, they they're they're

926
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 1: engineered to blow up. But they make a they make

927
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:45,360
Speaker 1: a crater that is anywhere from fifteen to thirty feet

928
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 1: in diameter or five to ten and they make a

929
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: crater that is anywhere from three to thirteen feet deep

930
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:55,359
Speaker 1: or one to four meters. So a single one makes

931
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,800
Speaker 1: that size hole. All four together should have made a

932
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: really big hole. Um there. And now something I will

933
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 1: bring up because this is something I thought about initially,

934
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 1: was well, what if the bombs didn't go off initially,

935
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 1: but then in the crash and the heat of the

936
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: fire they went off. And that is something that can happen.

937
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: There's a term, it's called uh cooking off, Yeah, cook off,

938
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: and that is when an external heat source or thermal

939
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 1: source effects ammunition to the point that it sets it off.

940
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 1: It makes it explode like you know, it falls into

941
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 1: the burning hull of a ship, and that which happens

942
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 1: in enaval accidents, and eventually the fire causes those to

943
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:40,359
Speaker 1: go off, which is then a whole series of problems. Well,

944
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 1: you would think that except like we talked about, he

945
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 1: had almost no fuel on left on the plane, so

946
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: there wouldn't have been enough heat to cause cook off

947
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:52,760
Speaker 1: because these things are rated for two and a half

948
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 1: minutes of high temperatures. So well. Plus also the bombs

949
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:58,839
Speaker 1: should have been torn off the wings when he hit

950
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 1: right right, and those you know what are you what

951
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: are we calling them? The clamps? Clamps? Yeah, the clamps,

952
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:13,480
Speaker 1: the clamps. Clamps would have obviously been destroyed, should have

953
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: been destroyed. There should have been evidence of the explosives

954
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 1: in terms of residual chemicals, should have been should have

955
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: been obvious when they analyzed the parts. Yep, none of

956
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 1: that was around. There should have been trapnel mile or

957
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 1: so away, but closer to Yes, So there's there's all

958
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:38,879
Speaker 1: these things that should would indicate if they had gone off,

959
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 1: and none of that indicates that that was the case.

960
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: And or and if they hadn't gone off, they should

961
00:54:45,200 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 1: have just been laying in the wreckage. So that means

962
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 1: that they didn't drop them. Theory is kind of on

963
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 1: shake ground. So we're now going to go into he

964
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 1: did drop though. I read a really interesting article which

965
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,479
Speaker 1: pointed out really good thing that I had not thought

966
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 1: of at all, which is the effect of that two

967
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 1: thousand pounds of munitions on his fuel. Well that's yeah,

968
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 1: that's it's the drag is going to cause is gonna

969
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:19,800
Speaker 1: you know, cost him fuel, and he probably could not

970
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:23,439
Speaker 1: have made it nearly as far as he did had

971
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 1: those weapons been on board the whole time. Now, he

972
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 1: only traveled about right you know when I when I

973
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 1: tracked it, I had it at six hundred fifty, but

974
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: I've seen it called eight hundred miles, so we're just

975
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 1: gonna stick with eight hundred miles. So, yes, he traveled

976
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:42,120
Speaker 1: about eight hundred miles total, which is I mean the rain.

977
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 1: We were looking this up earlier. The range of a

978
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 1: fully fueled board hog is something like twenty five hundred miles,

979
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 1: so he obviously wasn't full of fuel when he went

980
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:55,800
Speaker 1: down or when he started the journey. Yeah. So the

981
00:55:56,360 --> 00:56:00,320
Speaker 1: likely answer here then, based on that fuel consumption issue,

982
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: is that he must have dropped them. And these folks

983
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 1: really point out they make a good argument, which is

984
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 1: that he probably dropped them right away because he was

985
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:14,399
Speaker 1: in an area that was known for being a practice range.

986
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 1: So it's entirely possible that he could have dropped them unarmed.

987
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,919
Speaker 1: Let's say he dropped them unarmed and they fall into

988
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 1: this this firing range. They could have been buried by

989
00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:30,280
Speaker 1: subsequent explosions from other bombs that are dropped in practice runs,

990
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: or maybe they were hit a direct hit set them off.

991
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 1: I know, the chances that are really minute, but it's

992
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 1: something that could have happened, but you wouldn't and if

993
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:43,880
Speaker 1: they were live, good luck discovering that crater from the

994
00:56:44,480 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 1: eight thousand craters that are next to it. This is

995
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 1: obviously from Craig Button Light. Yeah. They also the other

996
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 1: thing too is you know these things have fans. They're

997
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 1: gonna they're gonna go in kind of like they go

998
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:57,759
Speaker 1: down and they have a sharpol nose on him. They

999
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:00,760
Speaker 1: could just bury themselves in the ground. They could actually.

1000
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 1: Have you guys seen the did you ever do any

1001
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 1: looking at the fins that are available for these things?

1002
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 1: They what is it the snake guy? Is that the

1003
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 1: one that they called they have that is it's just weird.

1004
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 1: It's his fin that you know, you think of fins

1005
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 1: on a missile and there their upright and it you know,

1006
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 1: it's kind of guides it. Well, this is actually they're

1007
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:24,040
Speaker 1: a parachuting fin and they create drag, they flare out

1008
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 1: and wind pushes them. It slows the bomb down. Yeah,

1009
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,360
Speaker 1: it's not exactly a parachute, but yet and there's this

1010
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 1: four of them and they're just you know the same

1011
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 1: place that the fins would be. They slow it down. Yeah,

1012
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 1: and so it was really interesting. But that that is

1013
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 1: one thing. If if it was if the Mark eight

1014
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 1: twos were equipped with something like that, I wouldn't be

1015
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 1: as willing to say maybe they nosed it and buried themselves,

1016
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 1: because those fins are meant to slow them down. I

1017
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:54,360
Speaker 1: didn't see any mention that they had that special kind

1018
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 1: of They didn't mention anything in the reporting of what

1019
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: these things were equippedment there than they were the basic

1020
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 1: market E two. Yeah, well, I mean it seems like

1021
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 1: that's what you would train with, right, you train with

1022
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 1: the cheapest Oh yeah, you don't pet the fancy things

1023
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 1: on there. We're gonna give you the fully decked out

1024
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 1: rig the first time. Good luck. Well there, yeah, the

1025
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 1: whole the snake as if I can't remember, pretty sure

1026
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 1: that's what it was. But yeah, the fins really really

1027
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 1: low altitude. They are in slow and slow movements because

1028
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 1: the idea for everybody that's listening the idea here is

1029
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: that if this finn is not there, the bomb will

1030
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:33,800
Speaker 1: drop and strike the target fast enough that it will

1031
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 1: throw shrapnel back up into the plane that actually dropped it.

1032
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 1: So that's why they're slowing it down to give the

1033
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 1: plane time to get away exactly. And it's low air speed. Yeah.

1034
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 1: So he was only into his training course for what

1035
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: two months? Two months, so he's probably was, and this

1036
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:55,479
Speaker 1: was his first live AMMO run. He wasn't running though level,

1037
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 1: so which means that they should have had enough speed. Yeah.

1038
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 1: Possibly in a very till old up gunnery range, the

1039
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 1: things could have very easily buried themselves. But that doesn't

1040
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 1: explain why then they would say that it didn't look

1041
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 1: like the racks had been disengaged. So I don't know.

1042
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 1: The more credible sources I've seen and say that their

1043
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 1: acts looks like the bombs have been dropped, and I

1044
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 1: would believe that, But the racks not being disengaged idea

1045
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:29,720
Speaker 1: leads us into our last sub theory of what happened

1046
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 1: to the market E two's, and that is the he

1047
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 1: sold them or gave him away theory. And you will

1048
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 1: see this out there occasionally, and this is one of

1049
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 1: those theories that gets bandied about, and when it comes up,

1050
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,920
Speaker 1: it's usually followed by that person the name of that

1051
00:59:48,080 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 1: person's favorite terrorist organization, and the theory basically goes Craig Button,

1052
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 1: he flies somewhere, he lands, they unload the bombs, and

1053
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 1: then he takes off. Okay, why he then takes off

1054
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 1: and flies into a mountain. Well, maybe he wasn't actually

1055
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 1: on the plane. Maybe he did actually punch out and

1056
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 1: he had a dead body in the cockpit, or maybe

1057
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 1: he you know, it was a pig or a decoy

1058
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 1: or something like that. You know, so he got away

1059
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:20,840
Speaker 1: all a dB Cooper. But you know, you would think, well,

1060
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 1: the US Air Force should know that, a the freaking

1061
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:27,919
Speaker 1: the the ejection seat is gone and this is a pig.

1062
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 1: But then again, hell, if we're gonna keep going this way,

1063
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 1: maybe they're in on it. And so they're covering the

1064
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 1: whole thing up, which adds even more layers of absurd

1065
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 1: complexity to this whole story. Well, you know, the cockpits

1066
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 1: and these things are not exactly really exactly, and and

1067
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 1: also smuggling and corpse across the airfield climbing into the

1068
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: plane with it. You know, what nobody knows in it.

1069
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 1: What I was getting at is that if he when

1070
01:00:54,600 --> 01:01:00,120
Speaker 1: he stopped at his clandestined, that's when they loaded the

1071
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 1: extra corps. And well, you know, maybe he did some

1072
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 1: fancy mcgiver wizzywig stuff with a computer and we took

1073
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 1: off on autopilot by itself. And then the pig woke up,

1074
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 1: and the pig was steering in the plane and That's

1075
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:19,560
Speaker 1: why it went back and forth, because Cuber Wilber Wilbur

1076
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:23,640
Speaker 1: realized that there was a problem. Yeah, I guess that

1077
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 1: was kind of the reason I was asking, like, was

1078
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 1: he an exceptionally talented pilot? It was it possible that

1079
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 1: the air Force was looking to do something kind of

1080
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:35,480
Speaker 1: clandestine and they didn't They were looking for somebody to

1081
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 1: and he was tapped for that, and he's tapped for that,

1082
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 1: and they said, we're gonna pay a bunch of money,

1083
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 1: just get out of here. I don't think it's likely,

1084
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 1: but you know, that was I guess why I was

1085
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 1: kind of asking the bombed like a cannabis farmer or

1086
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:54,000
Speaker 1: something like well, or just you know, they were or

1087
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 1: they were trying to sell these munitions or whatever, that

1088
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 1: he flew some black black opposite of Black Book operation

1089
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:06,120
Speaker 1: of some kind. Yeah, it seems really unlikely, but literally

1090
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 1: everything in this entire story seems super unlikely. So I

1091
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 1: guess I'm willing just as willing to say. You know,

1092
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:15,840
Speaker 1: my my UFO theory is that he was abducted by

1093
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:20,439
Speaker 1: aliens and they stole communitions because they wanted to investigate

1094
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:24,520
Speaker 1: what humans were capable of, and then they dropped him

1095
01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 1: back into airspace, and suddenly he was like, I don't

1096
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 1: know where I am. I don't know what's going on.

1097
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 1: I just got abducted by aliens into the side of

1098
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 1: the mountain. Well, if if we're gonna go with that,

1099
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:35,440
Speaker 1: then he should also be shutting. Why is this big

1100
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 1: chicken punching me? Because that's just as likely. Well, they're all, yeah,

1101
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 1: I really, well, actually there's another possibility. Okay, you know,

1102
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:47,600
Speaker 1: I mean maybe he maybe he took something like you know,

1103
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 1: I don't want to don't laugh. There's always ergo er good,

1104
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 1: of course, but also it was also you could have

1105
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 1: eaten some mushrooms not realizing that there was that there

1106
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 1: were the special kind, you know, or something like that,

1107
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 1: or somebody's loiked them some LSD. It's always kinds of weird.

1108
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 1: I mean, there's right that could cause using that is

1109
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 1: that is not outside the realm of possibility evidence, of course,

1110
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:13,320
Speaker 1: And of course they didn't find anything those blood streams,

1111
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:16,120
Speaker 1: so that's the hard part. In fairness, though it doesn't

1112
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 1: always take drugs to have a psychotic break. He could

1113
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:21,160
Speaker 1: have had a psychotic break. It's true. He could have

1114
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 1: thought that he was being chased. That's why could have

1115
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 1: been hallucinating in some way, shape or form doing these

1116
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: evasive maneuvers and through the clouds and stuff like that.

1117
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:31,160
Speaker 1: But it doesn't explain where the bombs went or anything.

1118
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:33,840
Speaker 1: So yeah, maybe the bombs will turn up. I mean

1119
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 1: they scoured those lakes, every lake around there. For example,

1120
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 1: that would have been a logical place for him to

1121
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:41,120
Speaker 1: drop the bombs lake It totally would have the most

1122
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 1: most lakes and places like that. Couldn't have very salty bottoms.

1123
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:46,800
Speaker 1: They could, they could vary. It took him a long

1124
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 1: time to get around the searching those things. But they were,

1125
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:51,440
Speaker 1: it wasn't I mean they were. They had divers, they

1126
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 1: were using equipment, you know, metal detectors and stuff like that.

1127
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 1: You think that they would have found them, and I

1128
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 1: know detectors, they metal detector I know that they were

1129
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 1: using metal detectors. And I remember seeing images of guys

1130
01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 1: walking through water and they had these weird handle contraptions,

1131
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 1: part of which we're in the water because they were

1132
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:17,280
Speaker 1: doing the searching, which I believe was some sort of

1133
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:22,000
Speaker 1: radar or metal detecting device. I don't remember now that

1134
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 1: you asked me. If you hadn't asked me, I probably

1135
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to do it imprompted, but that's the

1136
01:04:26,680 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: way it always works. So yeah, I guess I don't.

1137
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:32,439
Speaker 1: I don't have a good theory for either. I don't either,

1138
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 1: all right, I think he just went nuts. So it's

1139
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 1: a it's a it's a unanimous it's family guys, right, Yeah, Okay, Well,

1140
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:52,320
Speaker 1: let's go ahead and give you the important bits that

1141
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:56,280
Speaker 1: I know everybody likes to hang on for. First off,

1142
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:58,880
Speaker 1: we do have a website. That website is we do.

1143
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: That website is Think King Sideways podcast dot com. You

1144
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 1: can go there and find this in all episodes. There

1145
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:08,120
Speaker 1: will be some links for our red from our research

1146
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 1: for each and every episode on there. You will also

1147
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 1: find links to merchandise and stuff like that. We are,

1148
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 1: of course, obviously on iTunes, and we are also on

1149
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: just about every streaming service that is out there. So

1150
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:26,720
Speaker 1: if you're listening to us on iTunes, subscribe, take the

1151
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:29,560
Speaker 1: time to leave a comment and rating. If you're streaming,

1152
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 1: we we appreciate those. Uh, if you're on a streaming

1153
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:35,840
Speaker 1: service that allows you to do that, like, I don't

1154
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:38,280
Speaker 1: Google Play. I know everybody's using now, but I don't

1155
01:05:38,280 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 1: think it's does a rating system yet, but you know,

1156
01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 1: if what you're using does, please do so. Now. We're

1157
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 1: on We're on social media. We are on Facebook where

1158
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:50,160
Speaker 1: we have a Facebook group and the Facebook page so

1159
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 1: like the page, joined the group. Lots of fun stuff

1160
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 1: going on on the group. We're on Twitter, where we

1161
01:05:56,600 --> 01:06:00,040
Speaker 1: are thinking Sideways without the G in the middle. And

1162
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:05,960
Speaker 1: we are on Subreddit where we are thinking Sideways. We're

1163
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:09,400
Speaker 1: on Reddit, we have a we are all over Reddit.

1164
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:14,919
Speaker 1: We are all over the Reddit. We read it everywhere. Yes, yes,

1165
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 1: Devin is turning red it right now. Okay, So if

1166
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 1: you want to go ahead and get a hold of us,

1167
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:28,760
Speaker 1: you can do so through Facebook or the Reddit or Twitter,

1168
01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:31,160
Speaker 1: or if you want something that's going to be uh

1169
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:33,600
Speaker 1: just directly us, you can always go and send us

1170
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: an email. Email address is Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail

1171
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:42,480
Speaker 1: dot com. And last, but certainly not least, if you

1172
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 1: want to help support the show, we appreciate that, and

1173
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 1: there's a number of different ways to do that. On

1174
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:51,680
Speaker 1: the right hand side panel of our website, we have merchandise,

1175
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 1: so we've got links to both Zazzle and red Bubble

1176
01:06:54,600 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 1: where we have shirts and stickers and phone cases and

1177
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 1: all kinds of fun stuff we are. Also, we have

1178
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:02,760
Speaker 1: a PayPal account, So if you want to do a

1179
01:07:02,840 --> 01:07:06,480
Speaker 1: one time donation to us, that's awesome, that's cool, and

1180
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:09,360
Speaker 1: there's a button right there to do it. Or if

1181
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:12,200
Speaker 1: you want to do it on a recurring basis, you

1182
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 1: want to support the show, you can do that through Patreon,

1183
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:18,200
Speaker 1: which is p A t R E O n so

1184
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash thinking sideways and every time that

1185
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 1: an episode comes out, you have pledged to a certain

1186
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:27,920
Speaker 1: amount and that is what you would donate to the

1187
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:30,680
Speaker 1: show for each of those episodes, just just for the

1188
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 1: weekly shows, not for the not for the shorts. It

1189
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:34,400
Speaker 1: just says this all the time. We haven't done a

1190
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 1: short forever. We should probably do one. We can, says I.

1191
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:46,280
Speaker 1: There's so many jokes there. I'm gonna leave that alone.

1192
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:50,400
Speaker 1: All right, Well, we are gonna go ahead and button

1193
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 1: this one up and we'll talk to you next week.

1194
01:07:54,160 --> 01:08:00,200
Speaker 1: I'm injecting ow