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Speaker 4: Very difficult to keep the line between the.

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Speaker 5: Past and the price. You believe that someone out of

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Speaker 5: the past we can enter and take possession of a

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Speaker 5: living bee.

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Speaker 6: We may be through with the past, but the past

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Speaker 6: is not through with us.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Next Picture Show. A Movie the Week

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Speaker 1: podcast devoted to a classic film and how it's shaped

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Speaker 1: our thoughts on a recent release.

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Speaker 7: I'm Tasha Robinson here with Keith Phipps, Genevieve Koski and

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Speaker 7: Scott's Tobias.

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Speaker 1: This week we're taking a trip to the barnyard and no,

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Speaker 1: it's not to compare the animal noises from our beloved

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Speaker 1: barnyard Buzzers with the real thing. We've got two different

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Speaker 1: live action movies centering on talking animals. Animals expressing themselves

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Speaker 1: verbally as a familiar trope in animation and in movies

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Speaker 1: aimed primarily at children, from Disney films like Bambie to

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Speaker 1: Andy Serkus's Little Loved New Version of Georgia Orwell's Animal Farm.

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Speaker 1: But talking animals are less common in live action or

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Speaker 1: in movies aimed to any degree at adults, unless they're

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Speaker 1: satirically crass movies like the talking dog Shin and Against

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Speaker 1: in the unfortunately ubiquitous twenty twenty three Jamie Fox movie

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Speaker 1: s Dreys, or they're indicating that someone's on drugs, like

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Speaker 1: the talking cat in Doug Lymon's Go, or they're otherwise

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Speaker 1: subverting the kid movie trope. Feel free to check my

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Speaker 1: math here, y'all. Like you could make a case for

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Speaker 1: Rocket Raccoon and the Gardenians of the Galaxy movies as

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Speaker 1: a talking animal who isn't aimed at kids, You could

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Speaker 1: say that, I'd say the various Planet of the Apes

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Speaker 1: movies are meant more for an adult audience than for preteens.

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Speaker 1: But it just doesn't seem to me like there are

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Speaker 1: many talking animal movies. You know, you've got your frits,

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Speaker 1: the cats and whatnot in animation, but in live action

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Speaker 1: it's kind of rarer. And even when there is a

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Speaker 1: movie involving talking animals maimed at adults, it seems like

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Speaker 1: people still assume it's for kids because of their talking animals.

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Speaker 1: Am I wrong about this?

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Speaker 8: Well, apparently you're not familiar with a nineteen eight film

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Speaker 8: starring Virginia Madsen the voice of John Candy and Bobcat

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Speaker 8: Goldwight called Hot to Trot.

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Speaker 9: Oh.

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Speaker 1: I do remember Hot to Trot, though I don't believe

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Speaker 1: I ever saw it. The fact that you're citing one.

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Speaker 6: Necessarily yeah, kid me chaos rains?

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Speaker 1: Oh boy, I would put that under let's see subverting

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Speaker 1: the kid movie truck maybe something. I mean, it's also

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Speaker 1: not a major focus of that movie. It's it's just

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Speaker 1: a moment, kind of like in and Go. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know examples here and there. How is Hot to Trot?

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Speaker 10: Keith?

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Speaker 1: Should we have included in this pairing instead of the

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Speaker 1: movie that we actually included?

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Speaker 8: So to answer that question, that would at actually have

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Speaker 8: to have seen Hot to Trot. When I'm going on

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Speaker 8: almost forty years of not seeing Hot to Trot. That

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Speaker 8: could change, though, I'll report back if I do watch it.

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Speaker 1: Why why spoil a good thing? It seems like you've

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Speaker 1: had a good run so far, all right. Well, as

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Speaker 1: far as the films were discussing in this Pair and Go,

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Speaker 1: you could make an argument that they're at least somewhat

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Speaker 1: kid friendly, But only if you have kids who are

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Speaker 1: pretty strong under some large emotional pressures. Scott, can you

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Speaker 1: tell us about them?

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Speaker 6: Kyle Bald's murder mystery The Sheep Detectives, based on Leoni

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Speaker 6: Swan's two thousand and five novel Three Bags Full, starts

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Speaker 6: off with a heavy dose of fairytale warmth as a

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Speaker 6: loving British shepherd who knows all his sheep by name

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Speaker 6: and personalities, chats with them, reads to them, and centers

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Speaker 6: his life around them. When he's murdered, the tiny town

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Speaker 6: nearby is brimming with suspects, and his emotionally fragile, naive

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Speaker 6: flock has to figure out who done it and how

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Speaker 6: to alert the human authorities. The movie's strange combination of

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Speaker 6: fable like whimsy with tragedy and trauma naturally reminded us

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Speaker 6: of the deeply odd nineteen ninety eight movie Babe Pig

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Speaker 6: in the City. George Miller's poorly received sequel to the

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Speaker 6: nineteen ninety five smash hit family crowd pleaser Babe. While

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Speaker 6: Pig and the City reportedly traumatized kids and their parents

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Speaker 6: alike in test screenings. In its first run, It's gradually

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Speaker 6: built a reputation as a daring cult classic, in parts

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Speaker 6: specifically because of that unusual tonal clash.

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Speaker 1: So in this episode, we'll dig into the pig, and

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Speaker 1: in our next episode we'll go deep on the sheep.

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Speaker 1: Stay with us. We'll be right back after this break.

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Speaker 9: This summer, serve up the cookout classics, Oscar Meyer hot

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Speaker 9: Dogs and Heinz Mustard. Grill up a dog, add classic

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Speaker 9: yellow mustard or loaded Chicago style. We all know it's

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Speaker 9: not a cookout without Oscar Meyer and Hines.

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Speaker 3: This is the farm, peaceful, calm, civilized, but now the

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Speaker 3: only chance to save the farm. He's for one little pig.

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Speaker 3: He can't leave my lucky pig to go to the city.

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Speaker 1: He can leave.

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Speaker 2: Anybody who, anybody else.

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Speaker 3: He's entered a world of outcasts and misfits.

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Speaker 7: Well, hey, slowed down. If you had a cat's stay at.

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Speaker 3: Chat Fleetley, come back. We don't know where it's been

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Speaker 3: separated from his owner. I see you have to.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, just a little big in a big city. What

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Speaker 5: didn't you possibly know?

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Speaker 4: Why can't anyone know?

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Speaker 3: Dester has changed his mission and his courage is about

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Speaker 3: to change everyone's lives.

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Speaker 1: What links George Miller's movies. It's a natural question for

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Speaker 1: any casual observer looking at his filmography and seeing how

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Speaker 1: he jumped from the gritty, violent road revenge movie Mad

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Speaker 1: Max and its eventual sequels, to a comedy fantasy about

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Speaker 1: three dissatisfied small town women being romanced by the devil,

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Speaker 1: a pair of animated children's jukebox musicals about a tap

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Speaker 1: dancing penguin, a melancholy medical drama based on a true story,

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Speaker 1: a fable lake fantasy about a woman on a wish

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Speaker 1: granting gin, and a supposed children's movie about a talking

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Speaker 1: pig in a dark world of outcasts and predators. Just

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Speaker 1: the jump from the Happy Feet Penguin movies to Mad

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Speaker 1: Max Fury Road alone is enough to baffle onlookers, particularly

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Speaker 1: fans who've only seen either his adult movies or his

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Speaker 1: kid focused stuff. Listening to Miller talk about his career

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Speaker 1: in interviews, though, suggests that he doesn't really see a

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Speaker 1: significant difference between his original osploitation revenge movie and his

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Speaker 1: Penguin cartoons. Both are in his head musical movies Happy

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Speaker 1: Feet and its sequel, more literally because they're full of

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Speaker 1: diagetic songs, but Mad Max in that he sees it

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Speaker 1: as a rock and roll movie cut in montages and

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Speaker 1: action sequences that to him resemble rock music. He sees

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Speaker 1: a musicality in all of his work, and it comes

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Speaker 1: out in the interviews about those movies, whether the characters

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Speaker 1: are singing or not, and he describes all of his

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Speaker 1: films in terms of subverted versions of Joseph Campbell's classic

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Speaker 1: Hero's Journey, where, in Miller's words, a protagonist relinquishes self interest,

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Speaker 1: bestows a boon on the world, and thereby changes it.

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Speaker 1: It might be harder to see that pattern in Witches

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Speaker 1: of Eastwick or his segment in Twilight Zone the movie,

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Speaker 1: but it's certainly there in Happy Feet and in the

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Speaker 1: Hero that Mad Max eventually becomes, and in Lorenzo's oil

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Speaker 1: Three Thousand Years of Longing, and it's clearly obvious in

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight's Babe Pig in the City, Miller's dark

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Speaker 1: fairy tale about a sheep herding pig who's taken from

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Speaker 1: his home farm to a large, oppressive, yet dreamlike city,

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Speaker 1: where an act of unlikely compassion and heroism changes his

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Speaker 1: fortunes and the fortunes of many other animals. Miller didn't

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Speaker 1: direct the original Babe, a nineteen ninety five adaptation of

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Speaker 1: Dick king Smith's nineteen eighty three novel The Sheep Pig,

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Speaker 1: but he did conceive, co write, and a produce it.

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Speaker 1: He tells its origin stories different ways in different interviews,

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Speaker 1: claiming that he sat next to somebody beaming while reading

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Speaker 1: Kingsmith's novel on a plane, or laughing while reviewing it

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Speaker 1: on the BBC. He similarly has several different stories for

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Speaker 1: why he didn't direct it, including that he didn't feel

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Speaker 1: he was right for a job that would involve so

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Speaker 1: much patient training of an animal cast, or that he

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Speaker 1: was far too busy working on development for the science

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Speaker 1: fiction movie Contact. Instead, he handed the directorial reigns to

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Speaker 1: the project over to his writing partner on the film,

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Speaker 1: Chris Noonan, who had made short films and documentaries but

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Speaker 1: a feature film, and then Miller's pre production phase on

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Speaker 1: Contact went over Deadline and Warner Brothers fired him and

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Speaker 1: replaced him with Robert Samachis. Miller went back to the

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Speaker 1: set of Babe, where he clashed with Noonan, reportedly over

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Speaker 1: his feeling that Noonan was making the film too sunny

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Speaker 1: and sentimental, when Miller felt it deserved a darker tone.

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Speaker 1: Back in twenty twelve, when I was at the eighty Club,

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Speaker 1: I conducted a lengthy random Rolls interview with James Cromwell,

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Speaker 1: who played the crucial role of farmer Haggett in both

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Speaker 1: Babe movies. Here's what he said about those set fights,

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Speaker 1: edited a bit for concision. George gave Chris just the

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Speaker 1: worst time ever. George got so bad he called Chris

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Speaker 1: off the set. We were shooting down in the field,

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Speaker 1: and George and his hatchetman took Chris down to the

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Speaker 1: middle of the field and I could see they were

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Speaker 1: berating him. No one was supposed to go down, and

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Speaker 1: I said, oh, fuck that, so I went down and

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Speaker 1: stood next to Chris so George couldn't do it. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: I think George got the idea to do the book,

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Speaker 1: and he waited a long time until the CGI and

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Speaker 1: the puppetry were good enough to do the picture. But

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Speaker 1: he thought, oh, if it doesn't really work, I'd rather

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Speaker 1: not take the heat, so I'll give it to Chris Noonan.

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Speaker 1: But then as they got rushes and they saw how

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Speaker 1: wonderful this thing was, I think George wanted it back.

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Speaker 1: He wanted control. He was evidently brutal with Chris in

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Speaker 1: the editing process. Given all that from Cromwell, it may

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Speaker 1: have been a blow to Miller's ego. Then that the

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Speaker 1: sunnier version of Babe that Chris Noonan directed went on

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Speaker 1: to make more than two hundred and fifty million dollars

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Speaker 1: on a reportedly twenty to thirty million dollar budget, and

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Speaker 1: to earn seven Academy awards and nominations and become a

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Speaker 1: worldwide hit. It's easy to see why Miller would have

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Speaker 1: wanted to chase that success by making a sequel. It's

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Speaker 1: also obvious why he would cut Chris Noonan out of

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Speaker 1: the picture entirely and make Babe Pig in the City

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Speaker 1: with a darker tone he had wanted all along. Babe

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Speaker 1: is about a sweet, naive pig who's adopted by a

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Speaker 1: sheep dog and bonds with a farmer. Though their relationship

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Speaker 1: has ups and downs, particularly when a spiteful cat tells

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Speaker 1: Babe that humans eat pigs, but eventually, through some tactful

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Speaker 1: negotiation on the part of his adoptive sheep dog mom,

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Speaker 1: Babe wins a major sheepherding competition and gets a warm,

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Speaker 1: happily ever after with his pleased owner, Babe. Pig in

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Speaker 1: the City opens with Babe trying to help his owner,

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Speaker 1: Farmer Hoggat, with some renovations to a well, and instead

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Speaker 1: causing an accident that grievously injures the farmer. With Hoggett

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Speaker 1: bed bound and presumably his medical bills piling up, the

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Speaker 1: bank threatens to foreclothes on the farm, and Farmer Hoggett's

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Speaker 1: fierce fat wife Asmy played by Australian comedy star Magnet Zubanski,

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Speaker 1: tries to earn money by taking Babe to another sheep

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Speaker 1: herding expo, but they're waylaid en route by a drug

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Speaker 1: detection dog, whose attempt to show off for Babe gets

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Speaker 1: as Me arrested, ending with her and Babe stranded in

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Speaker 1: a strange city far from their destination. One tragic catastrophe

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Speaker 1: follows another, and the two traveling companions wind up at

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Speaker 1: a boarding house that doubles as a secret animal sanctuary

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Speaker 1: where a capuchin monkey steals as Mey's luggage. Babe is

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Speaker 1: pressed into service in a dark clown show overseen by

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Speaker 1: Mickey Rooney. A family of chimpanzees casually attempt to use

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Speaker 1: Babe as bait for a murderous bull terrier who winds

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Speaker 1: up as his bodyguard later, and things go further off

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Speaker 1: the rails from there. Miller does inject some lightness into

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Speaker 1: this fairy tale story, mostly through Baby Babe, who fiercely

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Speaker 1: holds onto his kindness and innocence, and through a trio

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Speaker 1: of mice who read the title cards for his chapter

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Speaker 1: and warble through classics like Edith Pioff's No Jenner Regrette

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Speaker 1: Rianne to punctuate key moments. Miller also significantly ups the

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Speaker 1: ambition and budget from the previous movie, with some seven

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Speaker 1: hundred carefully trained live animals on the set playing the

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Speaker 1: extensive beast deery cast. But a lot of what goes

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Speaker 1: on in Babe Pig in the City is scarier than

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Speaker 1: kids at the time could handle, and heavy and depressing

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Speaker 1: in ways that turned off adult audiences. In spite of

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Speaker 1: a few critical champions, the film was a flop that

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Speaker 1: took years to be re envisioned as a cult classic

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Speaker 1: by fans who admired its weirdness, its ambition, and its darkness.

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Speaker 1: Seen with some distance from its weird origins as something

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Speaker 1: of an act of jealousy and defiance on Miller's part,

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Speaker 1: it's much easier to fit into his filmography. It's certainly

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Speaker 1: easier to see Babe the character as a gentler, kinder

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Speaker 1: version of Mad Max, or a fellow traveler from Mumble

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Speaker 1: from Happy Feed. They're all outcasts who wander from place

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Speaker 1: to place, bravely delivering their self sacrificing gifts, and changing

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Speaker 1: the world around them seemingly without intending to. That said, though,

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Speaker 1: does it really matter whether we can clearly tell what

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Speaker 1: links one George Miller movie to the next. Reading and

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Speaker 1: listening to interviews with the man, he does bring up

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Speaker 1: the same elements when talking about different movies, and he

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Speaker 1: does answer the question about connections by talking about Campbell.

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Speaker 1: But in the end, categorizing his films and trying to

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Speaker 1: fit them all into the same basket may be doing

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Speaker 1: them a disservice. One of the most interesting things about

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Speaker 1: Miller's career is how seemingly disparate his films are. They

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Speaker 1: may intersect in some ways with a love of music, violence,

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Speaker 1: chase sequences, environmental messages, and acts of self sacrifice. But

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Speaker 1: instead of trying to turn those connections into a single

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Speaker 1: skeleton key that unlocks all his movies, it might be

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Speaker 1: more fun to just witness him being shiny and chrome,

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Speaker 1: assembling one of the most surprising, eclectic filmographies in cinema,

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Speaker 1: one unexpected leap from genre to genre at a time.

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Speaker 4: Something broke through the tenor flickerings fragments of his short life,

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Speaker 4: the random events that delivered him to this is moment

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Speaker 4: of annihilation. As terror gave way to exhaustion, Babe turned

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Speaker 4: to his attacker, his eyes filled with one simple.

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Speaker 8: Question, Why.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's Scott. I'm kind of pointing at you in

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Speaker 1: particular in this because I know you have been a

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Speaker 1: long time advocate for this movie. I feel like you

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Speaker 1: and Keith both have, but you know you're the one

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Speaker 1: who brought it into the Nuklke cannon. You can talk

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Speaker 1: about how this movie is weird or unique like those

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Speaker 1: are you know, fairly large draws for a really good

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Speaker 1: cult movie, and certainly you can talk about how it

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Speaker 1: subverted the first one with a lot of unexpected stuff,

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Speaker 1: but going beyond that, what do you think has made

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Speaker 1: it such a lasting cult phenomenon? Like what is specific

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Speaker 1: to this movie that you couldn't say about any other,

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Speaker 1: you know, weird or unique film.

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Speaker 6: It's directed by George Miller. I think I think it

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Speaker 6: is how I put it, you know, succinctly. And I

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Speaker 6: would say this also about a film like Lorenzo's Oil,

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Speaker 6: also by George Miller, and which which he takes a

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Speaker 6: material that would be kind of a disease of the

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Speaker 6: weak movie and makes it beautiful and energized and kinetic

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Speaker 6: and very much his, you know. I think that's kind

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Speaker 6: of what he does here with Babe. I think with

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Speaker 6: Babe Pig of the City. You know, it's a sequel,

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Speaker 6: so it's of course bigger than the Babe, and you know,

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Speaker 6: and it heads away from the farm into the city.

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Speaker 6: And I think the film is just gorgeous to look at.

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Speaker 6: I mean, like the production design, you know that the

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Speaker 6: conception of this every city is so striking, and then

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Speaker 6: you have you know, all of this, you know, I

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Speaker 6: guess darkness, I guess would be one way of putting it.

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Speaker 6: But but I think something I've always appreciated about about

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Speaker 6: children's films, you know, darker children films, that kind of

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Speaker 6: confrontation can make the lightness of the film, that the

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Speaker 6: message of the film kind of come through a little

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Speaker 6: bit stronger, you know, and that you've and that you've

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Speaker 6: been facing real adversity and kind of can come together

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Speaker 6: and come out on top. So so Babe's job here,

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Speaker 6: as as it was in the original film, is to

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Speaker 6: is to bring his kindness and his decency and his

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Speaker 6: willingness to help, you know, and impose that onto a

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Speaker 6: world that is hostile to those things in the world

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Speaker 6: that George Miller creates here is more hostile than the

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Speaker 6: first one. It is very much like a children's film,

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Speaker 6: you know, from the director of The Road Warrior, which

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Speaker 6: I think it makes it fascinating. The other part of it, too,

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Speaker 6: is like in terms of it being poorly received, I

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Speaker 6: think it's important to note that both Ciskel and Ebert

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Speaker 6: loved this film and and put it on the top ten.

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Speaker 1: They were they were huge outliers, but they were also

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Speaker 1: huge fans.

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Speaker 8: Of Cisco's favorite film.

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Speaker 6: Ye yes, so they they were there behind it. So

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Speaker 6: there was still there was some initial support and I

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Speaker 6: was never any point with like there is with a

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Speaker 6: lot of cult movies where I saw it and was like,

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Speaker 6: I don't know about this, and then kind of it caught.

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Speaker 6: It was a film that immediately enchanted me and kind

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Speaker 6: of wowed me when I saw it, you know, in

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Speaker 6: nineteen ninety eight.

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Speaker 8: Well, in terms of its critical reception, Tasha, you're kind

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Speaker 8: of misremembering Lang, which is I gave this film a

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Speaker 8: negative review in nineteen ninety eight, and I was convinced

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Speaker 8: that I like George Miller. I often, you know, Scott

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Speaker 8: Scott's opinions of mine often a line I know it's

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Speaker 8: picked up a cult reputation. I was convinced that this

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Speaker 8: would be like sort of the time I got it

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Speaker 8: and was ready to fully embrace this film rather just

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Speaker 8: kind of respect it. And I can't get there with

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Speaker 8: this movie. I don't know what. Yeah, I do respect it,

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Speaker 8: like everything it's going for I like moments individually quite

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Speaker 8: a lot, but it just hasn't altogether very well for me.

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Speaker 8: But I will take a back seat because I don't.

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Speaker 8: My job is not to be a huge wet blanket

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Speaker 8: at the celibate.

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Speaker 2: That's my job.

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Speaker 1: Keith oh specifically about this movie. Sorry, Jennevie, what about you?

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Speaker 1: Where do you fall?

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Speaker 7: I'm still not sure because I saw this movie when

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Speaker 7: it came out and I was a teenager, and at

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Speaker 7: that point it just like it did not hit at

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Speaker 7: all for me, because I think it just felt to juvenile, maybe,

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Speaker 7: which is weird when we're talking about, you know, a

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Speaker 7: kid's movie that is maybe tracking a little more adult

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Speaker 7: than your average kids movie, but you know, when you're sixteen,

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Speaker 7: I think just all the heightened slapstick of it, combined

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Speaker 7: with like talking chimpanzees and monkeys, just it all I

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Speaker 7: think felt very like childish to me when I was

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Speaker 7: a young adult, and now that I am older, i'm adult,

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Speaker 7: it's still like all of that is still there, but

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Speaker 7: kind of like Keith, like, I can respect it. I

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Speaker 7: can respect the weirdness. I can respect it. In the

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Speaker 7: context of George mill there's filmmaking, especially like there's one

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Speaker 7: scene toward the end of this movie. It's hard to say, like,

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Speaker 7: what's the weirdest scene of this movie, but like the

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Speaker 7: ballroom fundraiser where Esme is bouncing around in that clown

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Speaker 7: costume from Suspenders, It's like, oh, that's from Fury Road.

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Speaker 7: You know, he just really looks like people bouncing around,

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Speaker 7: I guess, but I think you call it kinetic Scott,

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Speaker 7: and that's, you know, something that's very kind of central

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Speaker 7: to Miller's style, and very much the case with this movie,

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Speaker 7: which just is so heightened in tone and pace and humor.

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Speaker 7: And again I respect all that, but I think, like

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Speaker 7: I find it a little like enervating over time.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, this wears me out, Yeah.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and like it's harder to find the emotional core

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Speaker 7: when I'm so exhausted by just like processing everything that's

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Speaker 7: happening on screen.

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Speaker 8: On Babe Genevieve, because I love Babe.

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Speaker 7: I love Babe. Yeah, yeah, you know, I think Babe

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Speaker 7: is maybe like a little more just my favored blend

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Speaker 7: of storytelling. The heart's a little closer to the surface,

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Speaker 7: as is the case with the other film in this pairing,

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Speaker 7: which we'll get to next week. You know, it's just

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Speaker 7: a little tougher for me to like connect to the

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Speaker 7: soul of Pig in the City. But like, I was

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Speaker 7: never bored, you know, it was always kind of like

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Speaker 7: fascinating to watch what was happening on screen. But I

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Speaker 7: think just the processing it like I said, kind of

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Speaker 7: became a little wearying over.

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Speaker 6: Time to ask you all this, you babe, two doubters.

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Speaker 6: A sequence, a scene where a scene like Missus Hoggett

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Speaker 6: and Babe arriving at this boarding house going up to

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Speaker 6: their attic, and then Babe on his own going up

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Speaker 6: to that picture window and looking at the city outside.

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Speaker 6: I mean that is like, that's like that is literally

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Speaker 6: that was the Godfather part too. I mean that's absolutely

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Speaker 6: I'm serious. It's like that it comes.

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Speaker 8: Down to from is that that I as a narrative,

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Speaker 8: this movie never gets me in its grasp and pulls

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Speaker 8: me along as a visual experience. And I'm often someone

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Speaker 8: who's like, oh, the visual visual experience is enough, you know,

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Speaker 8: I'm happy to let storry take a back seat. But

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Speaker 8: this time it just doesn't doesn't. It's never really quite

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Speaker 8: enough for me. As much as I do love the

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Speaker 8: visuals in this movie, I gotta say, I mean, I

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Speaker 8: think I think this is a a good movie. I'm

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Speaker 8: just saying there's something that keeps me at a distance.

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Speaker 8: I just can't quite get all the way on board

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Speaker 8: with this.

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Speaker 6: Chimp Family doesn't doesn't do it for you. It doesn't,

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Speaker 6: you know, warm you don't find that that whole expansion

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Speaker 6: of the family and just they're they're they're sort of

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Speaker 6: the way they kind of relate to Babe and then

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Speaker 6: warm warm to him is just like that doesn't do

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Speaker 6: anything for.

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Speaker 8: You, a big felonious fan. It's very soul.

432
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, Yeahlonius, his personality comes through a little more for me.

433
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 7: I think like chimpanzees, and maybe it's just because of

434
00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 7: their proximity to humans, or maybe it's because of all

435
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 7: the Planet of the Apes movies. I don't know, but

436
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 7: like there's like a weird mental block about anthropomorphizing them

437
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:09,600
Speaker 7: even more than they already are. I don't know, Like

438
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 7: I need to like keep them at a distance so

439
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 7: that they're like I need them to not be human

440
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 7: because they're already too close to human.

441
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: Let's let's take this back a couple of steps, because

442
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,919
Speaker 1: we're already falling down the rabbit hole of kind of

443
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 1: extreme specificity, and I want to zoom out a little bit.

444
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 1: Let's try a thought experiment. I wonder if part of

445
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: what Scott is responding to here and that me and

446
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:36,159
Speaker 1: Genevieve and Keith are not responding to as much, is

447
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: the shift from Babe to Babe too, because the first movie,

448
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: in many ways is just very sweet and sentimental, and

449
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: you know, it has a kind of an unforgettable payoff

450
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 1: that became a catchphrase, you know that'll do pig as

451
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:58,119
Speaker 1: just the most emotionally quiet way of delivering kind of

452
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: the perfect gift to somebody, that the perfect payoff for

453
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:08,400
Speaker 1: services rendered and for heavy emotional labor and going through

454
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: an experience. You know, that moment of getting the acknowledgment

455
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,439
Speaker 1: of the person whose acknowledgment you most want. I'm suddenly

456
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: thinking of like every Autome series ever made, and how

457
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 1: much they build around that moment of semp I noticed me.

458
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: You know, the person whose esteem and regard I want

459
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 1: has given it to me, but also just delivered in

460
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: such a sweet, quiet way. This movie starts off with

461
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: Babe clumsily nearly killing that person of esteem, and in

462
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 1: the original draft of the movie he did kill him.

463
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 1: Farmer Haga died in the opening sequence and George Miller

464
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 1: had to be kind of talked out of that, but

465
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,680
Speaker 1: he's still sidelined for the whole film. So I wonder

466
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: because this movie is just such a parade of melancholy

467
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 1: and a lot of that does come from the orangutang

468
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: and chimpanzees in particular with their kind of their sad

469
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: clown behavior. They're almost cultish, you know, adherence to this

470
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: strange family therein and to himself, as Tholonius puts it,

471
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: himself played by Mickey Rooney in a not completely non

472
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 1: speaking role. Does he does he make it?

473
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 7: It's like a.

474
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: Oh, that's right, he kind of does a thing because

475
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: his mouth is always full of food. Their relationship with him,

476
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: their relationship with each other, with the world with Babe,

477
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,879
Speaker 1: is very sad. You've got a bunch of orphaned animals

478
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: who are hungry and frightened and starving. You've got a

479
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 1: mission to save the farm, which gets derailed very early

480
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: on by a seemingly well meaning but also just completely

481
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 1: indifferent to reality dog. It's just a series of sad failings.

482
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: So I wonder if part of what we're not responding

483
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: to is both just the pile up of sadness and

484
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 1: failure and hurt and harm for so many of these animals,

485
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: and also kind of the contrast between what we got

486
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: in the first movie. So, first of all, I'm curious

487
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: if that's part of it, is just the sadness of

488
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: so much of this movie. And second of all, I mean,

489
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: if you can imagine, obviously, if Babe had never existed

490
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 1: in this was a one off film on its own,

491
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: we wouldn't have the context that we have at the

492
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: beginning for the characters. But if you can imagine, you know,

493
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,360
Speaker 1: this movie with a couple of minutes of exposition just saying,

494
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 1: you know, Babe was a happy pig that lived on

495
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: a farm, do you think this movie would play. It

496
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: would certainly plays less like like weird and offbeat and

497
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 1: edgy and dangerous in a way. But what it also

498
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: play is like less disheartening in a way that I

499
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 1: think we all kind of pulled back from a little bit,

500
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: except Scott.

501
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 7: Maybe the thing is like even though when you're like

502
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 7: putting it in the termstasia, like I see how it

503
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 7: is melancholy, but I think the city itself is just

504
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 7: so visually vibrant that I don't know, like that it's

505
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,160
Speaker 7: so quirky that like the danger never really like comes

506
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 7: through for me. It just kind of like feels like

507
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 7: an adventure, you know. But I can I also realize

508
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 7: that this is like dialed way back from Miller's original intentions,

509
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:31,199
Speaker 7: and on top of Hagat dying in the original script,

510
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 7: the bull Terrier was also supposed to drown in the canal,

511
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 7: which that would have definitely made this a very different

512
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 7: kind of movie than it is. But I think, like

513
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 7: I kind of have trouble getting again, sort of to

514
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 7: the emotional core of why this is a scary or

515
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 7: a sad experience for Babe. Because the world that they're

516
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 7: in is so bright and vibrant, and again I can

517
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 7: like I can see it on paper, but in watching

518
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 7: the movie, it just doesn't come through for me that way.

519
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 6: I just don't think, I guess I see it as

520
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 6: really bright or vibrant at all. I mean, I think

521
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 6: it's it's a beautiful the world of the film is

522
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 6: beautiful and has a great kind of texture to it.

523
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 6: But I also but I also think there's a lot

524
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 6: of scenes at night, there's a lot of scenes you

525
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 6: know that the streets are pretty lonely. I think it's

526
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 6: a it feels kind of on the gray side. It's

527
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 6: not a film that like really kill you know when

528
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 6: you're in the city, really gets you with color. I

529
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 6: don't think as much.

530
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 7: But maybe I just watched this in too close a

531
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 7: proximity to normal or last because I was like, wow,

532
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 7: it's so bright, but also like I think maybe that's

533
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 7: just a problem with a lot of mind. Yeah, it

534
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 7: doesn't have it doesn't quite have that like wow color grading.

535
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 5: Yeah.

536
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, So I don't know if I see it, I

537
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 6: see it as kind of a dark world. I mean

538
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 6: I do see this generally, like I said, I mean

539
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 6: as a George Miller movie, and as I think, I think,

540
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 6: you know, the darken light of it, I think is

541
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 6: is you know, contrasting. He's really trying to amplify here.

542
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 6: I mean, it's a bigger film, it's a sequel. He's

543
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 6: given this big old check to make it because the

544
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,719
Speaker 6: first one was a hit, and I think there was

545
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 6: you know, the ideas is really to set up this

546
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 6: even stronger contrast between you know, Babe, who we recognize

547
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 6: as this transformatively good creature, you know, against a city

548
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 6: that is hostile. It's full of orphans and angry dogs

549
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 6: and and you know, nosy neighbors and you know, anybody

550
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 6: who's a human that doesn't have a face that is

551
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 6: like a pig also not that friendly. So I think

552
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 6: you get that nice, you know contrast I think he's

553
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,719
Speaker 6: trying to establish in the filmy kind of give it,

554
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 6: you know, a certain you know, emotional weight or pop

555
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 6: or something.

556
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 8: I'm not sure there's a stranger a five film twenty

557
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 8: year stretch in a neat direccher's career than George Miller's

558
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 8: between Babe, which he didn't draft, obviously, but it's Babe

559
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 8: ninety five, Babe, Pig in the City nineteen ninety eight,

560
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 8: Happy Feet two thousand and six, Happy Feet two twenty eleven,

561
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 8: and then Mad Max period road. But this is a

562
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 8: really it's a chaotic path.

563
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 6: Where's Lorenzo's oil in this?

564
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 8: Was that right before It's ninety two? That's right before Babe.

565
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,719
Speaker 7: A lot of sequels too, well.

566
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 1: I kind of wanted to get into the George Miller

567
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: of it all, and I was going to talk about

568
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: some other things first, but since since you brought it up,

569
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: maybe we just dived directly into that first though, we

570
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: should probably take a break and gather ourselves for the

571
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: dive into the Mad Max slash Pig universe. We'll be

572
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: right back after this break. The Next Picture Show is

573
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,000
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574
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Speaker 1: the cherry blossoms in the first rush of spring, or

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578
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594
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602
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 1: C twenty six.

603
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 2: It is her, it's her, Sure, it's her. It looks

604
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 2: like himself, Thelonious I don't think so.

605
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 3: I tell you it's himself.

606
00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 8: Things will look it up.

607
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 5: Bertie, you're coming with me?

608
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 3: I don't pick it.

609
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 8: That's bad, that's.

610
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: So Yeah. Where where do you all see George Miller

611
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,479
Speaker 1: in this movie? One of the things is I was,

612
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: you know, re researching kind of how this came about

613
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: and why it's so different from the first movie which

614
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 1: Miller produced, and he was the kind of the founding

615
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 1: force behind it. This movie started because he saw somebody

616
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 1: read the children's book it was based on a plane

617
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: and watched them laughing and was just curious about like

618
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: what prompted that emotional response. You know, he was very

619
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: heavily behind this, but chose not to direct it himself

620
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: for reasons that he's delivered as a variety of different

621
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: things at different times. But you know his stamp is

622
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: on that first one, even if not as a director.

623
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 1: And then here we come in with one that, according

624
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: to at least some people who wrote about it, fits

625
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: into his career neatly because he hates repeating himself, and

626
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: even when he does do sequels, he goes off in

627
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 1: radical directions. See also making a sequel to Mad Max

628
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: Fury Road, his huge comeback success that didn't have Max

629
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: in it, you know, meaningful way. So I don't know

630
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: where where do you see the George Miller in this movie?

631
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 6: I can give you a specific sequence I think is

632
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 6: it a chasing the scene with with the the disabled

633
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 6: dog flee lick with his little wheelies hanging on uh

634
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 6: to a car during a during a big chase sequence

635
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 6: That felt like, you know, that felt like a road

636
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 6: Warrior sequence. So if you're thinking of, you know, if

637
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 6: you want to get really particular about a sequence that

638
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 6: evokes other George Miller movies, that would be the one

639
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 6: that stands out. But just generally, I mean, I think

640
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 6: I think you can look to scenes like that like

641
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 6: the climax at the fundraiser, or that incredible sequence with

642
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 6: Micky Mickey Rooney's magic routine going awry with fire and

643
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 6: just strangeness, you know. Again I use the word kineticism,

644
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 6: but just just the the the way he's able to

645
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 6: build build the whole thing like a you know, like

646
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 6: a Rube Goldberg machine, you know, just kind of like

647
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 6: one incident leading into another and having that kind of

648
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 6: wild escalation. I mean, that's you know, it's really there's

649
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 6: a real filmmaking presence there. Whether whether whether it works

650
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 6: for you or not, I feel like it is. You know,

651
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 6: you're in the hands of somebody with a real sensibility.

652
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 8: And the Mad Max films are filled with misfits and

653
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 8: outcasts and sometimes sometimes have to work together. Uh, and

654
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 8: I certainly get that here and the stem going back

655
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 8: to the Fundraiser scene, in addition to anticipating Fury Road,

656
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 8: it's basically Thunderdome in a way to sort of wow

657
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 8: bolting around.

658
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I had not put that together, but yeah,

659
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 1: I can see that.

660
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 7: He's really good at injecting humor into action sequences like

661
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 7: moments of humor and moments of just specificity it's not

662
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 7: even necessarily humor in the form of a joke. It's

663
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 7: just something being so specific and unexpected that you kind

664
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 7: of go faw.

665
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,799
Speaker 1: Mueller is also a big environmentalist, which is something that

666
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 1: stretches through. I mean, it is kind of the big

667
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 1: connective tissue between the Happy Feet movies, which are about singing,

668
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,359
Speaker 1: dancing animated penguins, and the Mad Max movies, which are

669
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 1: about non singing, non dancing, you know, murderous outlaws in

670
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: the waste. But both of them are heavily affected by humanities,

671
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 1: like reckless regard for the environment, and you know, Miller

672
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: is a vegetarian and has kind of a known soft

673
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: spot for animals and an ongoing frustration about how people

674
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 1: treat animals and how they engage with them and how

675
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 1: they engage with the environment and the world. And it

676
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: comes out in all sorts of different ways in his films,

677
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: you know, whether we're looking at the kind of like

678
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: post apocalyptic wasteland that humanity has created in the Mad

679
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:38,760
Speaker 1: Max movies, or the you know, more of a present

680
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 1: day circumstance and just what happens when people run across

681
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: a community of animals and see them as you know,

682
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: something to be trapped and exterminated, maybe experimented on along

683
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: the way. There's just a lack of empathy there, and

684
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: a lack of seeing animals is if they're suffering matters

685
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: of actively. So you know, that's where I see him

686
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: most clearly here, although yes, the chase sequences and the

687
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 1: Thunderdome sequences are pretty convincing as well. Scott, you touched

688
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: on the message of this movie, which you know, I

689
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 1: guess in a very storybook way, seems to me to

690
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 1: just kind of be like, be kind. You know that

691
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: you can salvage any situation by seeing, having empathy, seeing

692
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: other people as as if they're suffering matters, as if

693
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: their animality matters. You know that that other other individuals matter.

694
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:39,800
Speaker 1: I'm curious if it goes beyond that for you, what

695
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: what is the message of this movie? If anything I see, I.

696
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 6: Feel like that's about all. I mean almost in a

697
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 6: way just connects up with the original Babe, in terms

698
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 6: of if you're really talking about a message, I mean

699
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 6: it really you know, is another just I see the

700
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 6: movie as another way of expressing the same theme in

701
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 6: a different context, basically in terms of in terms of

702
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 6: you know, babes, you know, effect on other on other people,

703
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 6: that the way that empathy becomes the tool with which

704
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 6: they can change people's hearts, fix people's hearts, make make

705
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 6: uh make you know, an angry terrier kind can make,

706
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 6: can make this family of uh chimps uh be you

707
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,320
Speaker 6: know more, I guess democratic and their distribution of candy.

708
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 6: You know, just like something, just a little bit. It

709
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 6: just feels like at heart it really is a children's

710
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 6: film and has a kind of a good, simple children's

711
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 6: film messaging that I think connects with the first movie.

712
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 6: And and and uh feels feels complete in terms of

713
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 6: its connection with the first movie. I don't necessarily see

714
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 6: anything in addition to that, but you know, maybe somebody

715
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 6: else has some ideas.

716
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 7: I mean, I see a little bit of an extension

717
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 7: of of that initial idea or an expansion of it

718
00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 7: into the realm of like building a community and kindness

719
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 7: and empathy being central to that. Like, you know, Babe

720
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 7: does create a found family of creatures who were initially adversaries.

721
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,800
Speaker 7: You know, the cats and dogs are on different floors,

722
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 7: and the chimpanzees are really standoffish and the dogs are

723
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 7: murderous until Babe saves the bull Terrier, and of course

724
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 7: the end of the film, all of these abandoned stray

725
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 7: creatures in the big city have a home, a community,

726
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 7: a new family, you know, on Hagate's farm, and that's

727
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,919
Speaker 7: because of Babe. He whoes like the lynchpin that brought

728
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 7: them all together. And the first movie like has a

729
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 7: little of that, but it's a little more like a

730
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 7: one on one kindness that it is concerned with rather

731
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 7: than a communal one.

732
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: I think for me, one of the things that maybe

733
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,240
Speaker 1: holds me back from feeling a full threadd emotional connection

734
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: with this movie is the sense that that connection, for

735
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,400
Speaker 1: a good chunk of the film kind of happens at

736
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: the point of a gun, or in this case, at

737
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: the point of at the bunch of points of some teeth.

738
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: I guess, the whole sequence where the bull Terrier, who

739
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: does not appear to have a name, kind of holds

740
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 1: everybody hostage under the threat of murder and makes them

741
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: get along and share food and cooperate and thank Babe,

742
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: and to me kind of excruciating sequence where he makes

743
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,879
Speaker 1: them all lineup and each eat a single jellybean and

744
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: each individually thank Babe. I found that maybe almost more

745
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: depressing than anything else that happens in the film. And yes, eventually,

746
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: through suffering, through mutual suffering, they become maybe more connected

747
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: and more united, at least once they're in a place

748
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: of plenty where nobody wants for anything. Don't ask me

749
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: how this farm was just about to collapse under the

750
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: financial strain of not having to take care of a

751
00:40:55,480 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 1: whole bunch of non contributing cats, dogs, singing mice, and

752
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 1: orangutang's manages. That not important. It's a fairy tale. But yeah,

753
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: the whole idea of the found family that comes together

754
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 1: because they're unwillingly forced to, it's just a very awkward

755
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 1: kind of middle act of the movie for me.

756
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 6: But I think the witnessing Babe saving the dog really does,

757
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,280
Speaker 6: you know, noticeably cause a change of heart that happens

758
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 6: before the sequence where they're where they divvy out the food,

759
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 6: you know. So, so I think you do get that

760
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 6: moment where where that is the thing that kind of

761
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 6: moves them and sort of aligns them with what Babe

762
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 6: is doing more more so than than you know what

763
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 6: I what I guess is sort of you know, a

764
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 6: benevolent dictator situation where where you got the where the

765
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 6: bull terrier is ordering the ordering uh everyone to uh

766
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 6: thank the good King Babe. But I think before that,

767
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 6: you know, there's a lot of setup, I think in

768
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,360
Speaker 6: terms of especially with the with with the chimps, in

769
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 6: terms of, you know, have their minds and sort of

770
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 6: hearts changed by Babe before we even get to the

771
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 6: food distribution part.

772
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 7: Except for Felonious, I feel like Felonious is the Tasha

773
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 7: of this group, just kind of watching that whole jelly

774
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:17,760
Speaker 7: bean sequence me Like, No.

775
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: I assume by that you mean he's he's the one

776
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 1: with quiet dignity who stands aside wearing impeccable clothing and

777
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 1: just kind of having a you know, a persona all

778
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,720
Speaker 1: on his own that doesn't need anybody else, and also

779
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: just being a devout follower of more or less an

780
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 1: outfit to the point where he can't tell who's wearing it.

781
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: I think that does describe me.

782
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 8: I think one other thing here is I don't think

783
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 8: there's a lot of affection for cities in this film Modernity,

784
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 8: but like, as imaginative and vibrant as the depiction of

785
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 8: the city is, it's kind of a lousy place. I mean,

786
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 8: it's a cruel place. There's not a whole lot of

787
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 8: impossible you know, connection seems to be kind of difficult,

788
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 8: if not impossible. Your neighbors hate you and call the

789
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 8: police on you, and just the whole you know, even

790
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 8: this sounds doubly point now. But but the narration at

791
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 8: the end describing the farm as as just a little

792
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 8: to the left of the twentieth century, I think it's

793
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,839
Speaker 8: what it said. It's like, this is it's too thought,

794
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 8: the work of someone who thinks that we've made a

795
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,879
Speaker 8: lot of mistakes in the last few in the last

796
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 8: few decades, that perhaps we should walk back. I mean,

797
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 8: the whole. I think it's kind of like the underlying

798
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 8: point of the Madden Naxiens in a way, isn't it.

799
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 7: Don't forget the rollerblading gang that starts. What was it

800
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 7: that fell on as May's head was hanging?

801
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,280
Speaker 6: It was okay, yeah, they're putting a billboard.

802
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 7: Okay, yeah, that she just like had plastered to her hat.

803
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:44,240
Speaker 7: For the remainder of the film.

804
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about esme, because we really haven't gotten

805
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: into the human aspect of this film other than farmer Hogett,

806
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 1: who's barely in it, and as May's front and center

807
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: a lot. Scott, when you were talking about kind of,

808
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: you know, the humanity and empathy of this movie, I

809
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 1: kept kind of coming back to as Me and how

810
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: she's just kind of, you know, the butt of every

811
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: joke up to and including the part where she's you know,

812
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: hanging off of a balcony in giant clown pants, and

813
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: those giant clown pants have a giant balloon underneath it

814
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 1: expands to look like she has an even larger butt

815
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: than she already has. I just I feel like the

816
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: movie doesn't have I mean, obviously we are intended to

817
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: feel bad for her in everything that she goes through,

818
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: but I just don't feel like the movie has a

819
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: whole lot of human empathy for her in terms of

820
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 1: kind of a comic suffering and the fat Lady fall down,

821
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,240
Speaker 1: go boom a kind of aspect of a lot of

822
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 1: the comedy here. It's certainly a rousing moment when she

823
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,120
Speaker 1: when she goes all Thunderdome in her clown pants. I

824
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:55,720
Speaker 1: do wish that whole sequence was edited a little tighter.

825
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,560
Speaker 1: It's kind of repetitious and goes on for a pretty

826
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 1: long time. But how do you all feel about it

827
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: as me as a character and about Magda's performances as me.

828
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 8: I mean, she's very clownish. I don't think there's a

829
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 8: whole lot of depth to the character, but I do

830
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 8: really like the performance. I think. I think she's a

831
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 8: lot of fun and goes and it kind of just

832
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 8: goes for it.

833
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 7: And I think part of that like clownishness, is tied

834
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 7: to the fact that, as may like, for all the

835
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 7: humiliation she suffers, she doesn't really seem to process it

836
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 7: as such, like you don't get like shame coming from

837
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 7: her true. So I think that makes it feel less

838
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 7: like it's making fun of her and more that she

839
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 7: is just a extremely out of place figure in this scenario.

840
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 7: Again kind of like going back to how everything in

841
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 7: this movie is so heightened, Like the difference between her

842
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 7: in every respect from the people in the city is

843
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 7: just inflated, like those clown pants at every turn, you know,

844
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 7: she has this weird blue hat on, you know, at

845
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,760
Speaker 7: the time, like she never fits in the scenario unless

846
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 7: she's at home at Hoggett's farm, And I think that

847
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 7: kind of ties her to just sort of the general

848
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 7: outsider narrative of this whole thing. And yeah, I think

849
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 7: far As the performance Magda Subonski just leans into that,

850
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 7: like you said, kind of as a clownish figure and

851
00:46:27,120 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 7: not bringing across any sort of sadness or shame in

852
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 7: what as May is going through.

853
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,320
Speaker 8: I think it's a kind of start contrast to Professor

854
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,320
Speaker 8: I'm Professor Hockett. Professor Hockett, the Farmer Hawgett in the

855
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 8: first film, which there's a lot of depth of that

856
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 8: character and a lot of you know, a lot of

857
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:44,640
Speaker 8: emotion between you know, get to feel it as we

858
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 8: likes Babe just fine, but there's not like a really

859
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,760
Speaker 8: strong connection that you feel between Farmer Hawgett and Babe

860
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 8: and the first film.

861
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 6: And I think that figures into the conception of as

862
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:58,800
Speaker 6: May here going forward to trying something different because her relationship,

863
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 6: as you can say Keith is, is not not the same

864
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 6: as her husbands, because you know, she has been asked

865
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 6: to go on this kind of scary, unappealing mission, and

866
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 6: the film kind of casts her as this put upon

867
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 6: comedic character more than someone who has you know, a

868
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:21,439
Speaker 6: you know, warm relationship with with Babe. She's she's she's

869
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 6: put through the ringer. And then but I think, but

870
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,239
Speaker 6: I think, you know, if you're looking for some kind

871
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 6: of you know, warmth here, I think I do like

872
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 6: the relationship that Esme has with the woman who runs

873
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 6: this boarding house. I mean, they have, of course, obviously

874
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 6: a strong visual contrast in terms of their build I mean,

875
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 6: because because her kind of part has this kind of

876
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:46,439
Speaker 6: olive oil esque look to her. And and I think

877
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 6: that you know, and they're from they're from different places,

878
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 6: but they kind of see eye to eye. They have

879
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 6: this connection that's established from the moment Esme goes and

880
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 6: seeks out this place, you know of just like this

881
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 6: secret place where they can where they can stay. And

882
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,799
Speaker 6: so I thought there was a certain sweetness to that.

883
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 6: Even though I think, broadly speaking, as May is conceived

884
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 6: as a you know, a broadly comic character who feature

885
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 6: is a lot in the physical comedy in the movie.

886
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 7: It's fascinating to think about this movie where es May

887
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 7: is a very recent widow going through all of this,

888
00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 7: Like I'm curious how much of her scenes changed as

889
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 7: a result of that change. Like obviously she makes a

890
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:38,919
Speaker 7: phone call back home, so that had to have been incorporated.

891
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:43,399
Speaker 7: But like, you know, her desire to do right by

892
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,319
Speaker 7: the pig. Here it feels very much just driven by

893
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 7: needing to save the farm and to a certain degree

894
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 7: of loyalty to farmer Hoggett, and you know his love

895
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 7: for the pig. But thinking about it in terms of

896
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:00,960
Speaker 7: it being a connection to the husband she lost, that

897
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:02,920
Speaker 7: does make it feel a little different.

898
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,880
Speaker 1: Well, as a last note here, I just want to

899
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 1: shout out Jennifer Kent, the director of The Baba Duke,

900
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 1: who is the mean looking lady in the lab frowns

901
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 1: up all the animals. Just one of those like Australian

902
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: filmmaker connections and like a funny little bit of trivia. Well,

903
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,280
Speaker 1: this has been a very kind of intellectual and to

904
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: some degree dour conversation about a movie that, while very grim,

905
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 1: is also very antic and full of like visual and

906
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 1: comedic and emotional nonsense. To take us out, tell me

907
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 1: about a favorite moment. What did you really enjoy in

908
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:40,720
Speaker 1: this movie?

909
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 8: I actually enjoyed speaking of the physical contrast between between

910
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 8: those two characters, between Asme and and miss Flume. The

911
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 8: whole thing was like you I could wear and it

912
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,080
Speaker 8: just kind of silently holds on both of them in profile,

913
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,920
Speaker 8: and then the cut to her wearing the cloud costume.

914
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 8: It's very funny. I mean, look, I think, like I said,

915
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 8: I not one hunder percent on this movie, but I'm

916
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 8: really glad it existed. It's definitely I would definitely recommend

917
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 8: watching it.

918
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 7: I really like when Fleelick didn't die, it really seemed

919
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:12,439
Speaker 7: like he did.

920
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: I was going to bring that up, but Fleelick goes

921
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: to heaven as a goes to dog Heaven specifically as

922
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 1: a sequence, it almost seems I was I have having

923
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 1: a Buffy the Vampire Slayer, you know, once more, with

924
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,200
Speaker 1: feeling like singing about how they called her back from

925
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: heaven and it was terrible thoughts when when Babe pulls

926
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,919
Speaker 1: him out of Doggy Heaven where he doesn't need his

927
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: his assistive devices and there they're endless things to chase

928
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 1: in green Fields. A lot of this movie reminded me,

929
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 1: specifically the boarding house and the city full of canals,

930
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 1: and like bits and pieces of other places reminded me

931
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 1: a lot of Jean Pierre Jeannet's movies. But Fleelick goes

932
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: to Heaven. It's really right up there with June moments

933
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: for me.

934
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 7: I honestly can't decide because you're right, Like it is

935
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 7: a little upsetting that is, like called back from this heaven?

936
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,800
Speaker 7: Would we have preferred if he died, like as especially

937
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 7: you Keith.

938
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,919
Speaker 8: You know, he seems happy once they get him back.

939
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 8: Once he comes back, he seems perfectly happy to be

940
00:51:20,920 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 8: back among the living.

941
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 1: Doggie heaven is still waiting for him. I mean, he

942
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 1: has a job to do. He seems he seems glad

943
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,759
Speaker 1: to be called back to be able to help his friends.

944
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 6: It's it's not a Buffy season five situation where she

945
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 6: comes back. It's like, guys, I was doing pretty good.

946
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 8: Til you did that.

947
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:45,439
Speaker 1: I actually just really enjoyed Nigel and Allen, the two

948
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 1: dogs who both voiced by Eddie Barth, who are just

949
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 1: kind of a almost a Statler and Waldorf kind of pairing,

950
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:57,320
Speaker 1: except they don't make corny corny punds and they don't laugh.

951
00:51:57,800 --> 00:51:59,800
Speaker 1: They just sort of responded to everything by kind of

952
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 1: going back and forth with well, that's the way of

953
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 1: the world, isn't that how it is these days? Just

954
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 1: this sort of like dolorous choir of people who don't

955
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: intend to help but do intend to criticize. I feel

956
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 1: like that's just kind of very sly bit of humor. Also,

957
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: I would have liked to have known more about the

958
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 1: cat choir, Like speaking of this movie being about community

959
00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:26,120
Speaker 1: and like like found family, I would have liked to

960
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:27,840
Speaker 1: know how that all kind of came together.

961
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 7: I'm realizing we I don't think discussed Ferdinand the Duck

962
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 7: at all in his arrival on the scene, but his

963
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 7: journey in the mouth of a pelican did chickle me.

964
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 1: I did not care for Ferdinand. It just seems like

965
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 1: a one note joke the entire time. It is kind

966
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 1: of the only animal in this movie. You know, the

967
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 1: behind the scenes stories were pretty nuts in terms of,

968
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: you know, seven hundred animal extras, and just like the

969
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,120
Speaker 1: way they were trained and how this all came together.

970
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,279
Speaker 1: Ferdinand is the only very obvious puppet for me, and

971
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: he only has one gag, which is, you know, talking

972
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: a mile a minute about about his pig. But the

973
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: visual of him in that pelican's mouth is pretty great.

974
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 8: And his excuses for needing this needing the flight need

975
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 8: the flight assists are pretty funny too.

976
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I think just generally looking back at this

977
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 6: from the effects world that we're in now, just as

978
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:32,560
Speaker 6: a physical production, it's just so great to see a

979
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 6: movie like this.

980
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm not not to get ahead like I think

981
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 8: they have felt. The effects in next week's movie are

982
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:41,479
Speaker 8: quite good. But the fact that this is like the CG,

983
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 8: you know, visual effects layered over real animals in a

984
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:47,800
Speaker 8: way that's really convincing. Is it's clear.

985
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:51,399
Speaker 1: Accomplishment, especially given how much earlier it was. But we'll

986
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 1: have plenty of opportunity to talk about that when we

987
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 1: dive into the next movie in this pairing. For the moment,

988
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:59,240
Speaker 1: let's take a break and then dig into feedback.

989
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 10: This episode is brought to you by Redfinn. You're listening

990
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:13,839
Speaker 10: to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even

991
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 10: scrolling home listings on Redfinn, saving homes without expecting to

992
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996
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:39,000
Speaker 10: Get started at redfin dot com Own the dream.

997
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 1: Now it's time for feedback, But first let's talk about

998
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 1: what's up with the other shows that comprise our happy

999
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:46,840
Speaker 1: film spotting family. Over at film Spotting, hosts Adam Kampenar

1000
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: and Josh Larson have wrapped up their best of the

1001
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,000
Speaker 1: nineteen forties bracket vote. You will not be surprised at

1002
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:53,840
Speaker 1: what beat out all of the other competitors, but we

1003
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:55,919
Speaker 1: are not going to spoil it for you here. They've

1004
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:59,080
Speaker 1: also dropped their summer film preview episode, and here's a

1005
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 1: reminder that Films Spotting Fest two, the weekend of films

1006
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 1: curated by Adam and Josh, is hitting Chicago on June

1007
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 1: twenty seventh and twenty eighth with a lineup of films

1008
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,439
Speaker 1: that explore time and the way the past presses into

1009
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 1: the present. MM that sounds like a certain film podcast

1010
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:17,279
Speaker 1: we know and love and are currently recording over. At

1011
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 1: the freshly revived film Spotting SVU short for a streaming

1012
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,359
Speaker 1: video unit, Matt Singer and Jordan Hoffman asked the burning question,

1013
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,840
Speaker 1: did Netflix's People We Meet on Vacation really deserve a

1014
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: fifty million strong viewing audience. Now it's time for feedback,

1015
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 1: where we reader listen to some of the responses we've

1016
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:35,560
Speaker 1: gotten to recent episodes. This week, we've got more hats

1017
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 1: being thrown into more corners, this time on a point

1018
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: of order that we clashed on over Fargo. Keith, you'll

1019
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: probably gloat less than Scott on this one.

1020
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 8: Can you read this letter absolutely? Philip writes, I have

1021
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,320
Speaker 8: to disagree with Tasha on this question of whether Marge

1022
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,839
Speaker 8: finds the Tan Sierra accidentally. I believe the cop who

1023
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 8: talked with the bartender did report the incident and shared

1024
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:59,920
Speaker 8: it around Margie and Eric checking it out. Just because

1025
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 8: the scene ends with the cop and bartender talking about

1026
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,520
Speaker 8: the weather doesn't necessarily mean either as an ept. It's

1027
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 8: just the character of the story being played. Besides, what

1028
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 8: should the cop have said? Gosh, you're right, does your

1029
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 8: murderer loose down by the lake? Not in this movie? Okay? Real,

1030
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:15,240
Speaker 8: good done.

1031
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I did go back and rewatch that scene

1032
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: just to see if I was, you know, off baser

1033
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 1: losing my mind, And as so often happens, I'm going

1034
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 1: to continue to stand by my point in terms of

1035
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 1: what the cop should have said. I honestly just thanks,

1036
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 1: we'll check it out. As opposed to you, eh, it's

1037
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:35,439
Speaker 1: probably nothing, would have been fine. But rewatching that scene,

1038
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 1: I realized I did make a fool of myself on

1039
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 1: that episode by talking about how we didn't know whether

1040
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 1: that was Lou or who that was because he was

1041
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 1: all kennied up in his parka. I apparently looked away

1042
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,799
Speaker 1: from the screen when he's driving up and you see

1043
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: him full on, full face before he actually pulls the

1044
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 1: coat up. We know from later that this is Gary

1045
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 1: and not Lou from the reference to Gary's loud Mount.

1046
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 1: So apologies for that at least, no apologies for the

1047
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 1: other thing. I still insist that, uh, it's just more

1048
00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: interesting and more coheny if it's a coincidence.

1049
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:13,760
Speaker 6: I don't agree at all.

1050
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 8: Okay, So I just Tasha, I just rewatched the movie

1051
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,280
Speaker 8: because I watched it again, showed my daughter and like, yeah,

1052
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 8: I agree that that that I could see where you

1053
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:23,479
Speaker 8: could be confused by.

1054
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 6: That, but.

1055
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: Interestingly slantid word to use.

1056
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 8: But no, it's it's one thing does follow the other.

1057
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 8: It's not just a quinc that she's that she's out there.

1058
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 8: This is equivalent. You know what if this is I

1059
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 8: don't know if anyone else since it's the flophouse, but this

1060
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 8: is the equipment of their ding Dong gate, which was

1061
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 8: There's ongoing debate as of whether or not the character

1062
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 8: the titular Castle Freak of Castle freak rips off his

1063
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:49,439
Speaker 8: ding dong to the point where they actually actually reach

1064
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 8: out to the late Stuart Gordon before his death of course,

1065
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:56,120
Speaker 8: to deal with this. So this abr ding Dong.

1066
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 6: Gate, Yeah, I just I don't want to. I don't

1067
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 6: feel like we need a scene to connect the piece

1068
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 6: of information that's that is received at that one moment.

1069
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 7: I mean I think we do. I mean I think

1070
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 7: we have the dialogue. I think that Gary's loudmouth line

1071
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 7: is very clearly referencing that scene. But you know what, Tasha, like,

1072
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 7: I respect you holding your position in spite of that.

1073
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:22,240
Speaker 1: To me, oh, Gary's loud mouth is him saying, oh yeah,

1074
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: he mentioned that, and I'd completely forgotten about it. Also,

1075
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 1: it occurs to me that we don't really have any

1076
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 1: connective evidence, Like we don't actually see Steep Bushemi's body

1077
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:34,440
Speaker 1: being moved towards the wood Shipper or chopped up in

1078
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 1: any way, so we don't really know that that's him.

1079
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:40,120
Speaker 1: So I think it's probably some different person who just

1080
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: like wandered up and we never really find it, like we.

1081
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 7: Don't actually fell into the wood Shipper.

1082
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 1: Well, no, it was probably somebody who just like you know,

1083
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 1: came up to the house, but we never really see

1084
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 1: exactly what happens to Bushemi's character. We see what's about

1085
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: to happen, and then later there's this wood shipper thing.

1086
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 1: I don't think they're really anyway, moving right along and

1087
00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 1: not listening to anybody else who says anything to say

1088
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 1: about anything.

1089
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 8: I have a question for you. Okay, are you ready

1090
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 8: hit me? Do we have another letter?

1091
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 1: Well, okay, I'm not sure about the connective tissue between

1092
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 1: the last letter and this letter. They may be from

1093
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:18,680
Speaker 1: different people and have no relationship to each other. We

1094
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:21,040
Speaker 1: have an interesting question from Ken. He does not have

1095
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 1: any hats to throw, No corners are mentioned. He does

1096
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 1: have a question about a movie that we covered for

1097
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 1: our Patreon listeners, Genevie, would you mind reading this one?

1098
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 7: Sure, Ken writes, I know this was done as part

1099
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 7: of your Lobby series, but I'd be interested in knowing

1100
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 7: your thoughts about something surrounding the movie.

1101
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 10: Michael.

1102
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 7: I know in the past critics have had to take

1103
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 7: their share of anger, but it seems really extreme this time.

1104
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 7: In fact, a lot of it seems like some people

1105
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 7: took the negative criticism of Michael personally, even to the

1106
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 7: point of accusing critics who don't like it of being racist.

1107
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 7: Do you think that's a one time thing, a change

1108
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 7: in the public perception of criticism or perhaps our online

1109
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 7: society has resulted in a US versus them feeling. That's

1110
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 7: a big question.

1111
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 8: Yeah, that is a huge I mean, I think the

1112
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 8: it's really acute with I think the Michael thing is

1113
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:06,800
Speaker 8: a really acute example of some of the other things

1114
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:11,240
Speaker 8: cited in that letter. I think it is unique, or

1115
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 8: at least unusual in that there's just a really fervent

1116
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:21,480
Speaker 8: fan base that I, frankly I think needs to keep

1117
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 8: this story alive that Michael Jackson was innocent, and I

1118
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 8: don't think there's a lot of critics who are as

1119
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 8: invested in that particular narrative, which and I think that

1120
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 8: there's a clash there for sure, And trying to be

1121
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:38,320
Speaker 8: very delicate here in terms of how I phrase this,

1122
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 8: but but yeah, I do think Michael Jackson fans really

1123
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:45,560
Speaker 8: really need to believe that he was innocent, and so

1124
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 8: does the movie. For the movie to work, the movie

1125
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 8: has to believe he's innocent as well. And there's you know,

1126
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 8: I think people who disagree with that it's going to

1127
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:59,040
Speaker 8: be an issue. I really do kind of resent the

1128
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 8: way some of the people involved in making the movie

1129
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,240
Speaker 8: have treated this as a case of critics just don't

1130
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:06,720
Speaker 8: get what what audiences want, because I think there's so

1131
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 8: many issues particular to this story and the way it's

1132
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 8: told in this film that make this a you know, different,

1133
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 8: makes it about much more than that.

1134
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 6: And I think I think you could also say, broadly speaking,

1135
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 6: whether you're talking about this movie or any other movie,

1136
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:28,120
Speaker 6: the understanding of the role that the criticism plays and

1137
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,920
Speaker 6: in the culture, I think is that that's it's not

1138
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 6: connecting as much. I don't think that the I don't

1139
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 6: think that the point of film analysis versus fandom is

1140
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 6: is uh, you know, it's a more complicated situation I think.

1141
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:44,480
Speaker 6: I think due to the weakening of the media, that

1142
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 6: the winnowing of of criticism as a profession, you know,

1143
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 6: the rise of like of fandom, different pockets of fandom,

1144
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 6: all of these things kind of combined to where criticism

1145
01:01:56,400 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 6: of a movie, certainly of a and of a public

1146
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 6: figure of Michael Jackson's stature, becomes almost like unfathomable to

1147
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 6: some people, Whereas whereas it's it's.

1148
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 8: Kind of like I think, like with Taylor Swift fans

1149
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:14,400
Speaker 8: would would would uh and it would swarm negative reviews

1150
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:19,000
Speaker 8: except uh. Throw in pedophilia.

1151
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, high emotions on both sides. I think for very

1152
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 1: good reasons. Pedophilia, as we are seeing in politics right now,

1153
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:32,960
Speaker 1: is a big bright button to push because people have naturally,

1154
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 1: very very strong feelings about it. Racism also a big

1155
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 1: bright button to push. So once both of those things

1156
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:45,040
Speaker 1: enter the conversation and enter a conversation, an online conversation

1157
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 1: which is often kind of hyperbolic and not very nuanced,

1158
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 1: you kind of have a recipe for a perfect storm.

1159
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 7: And also self selecting to go back to the fandom

1160
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 7: thing too. You know, you can just create your own

1161
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 7: bubble of a narrative and get mad at anything that

1162
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 7: tries to puncture that bubble.

1163
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:08,640
Speaker 1: I have voluntarily not seen, Michael, because the conversation around

1164
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 1: it just makes me think it just does not. I

1165
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 1: My issues with biopics that are very selective or try

1166
01:03:18,080 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 1: to reframe a story around kind of a single point

1167
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 1: of here's what's important are pretty well known in this

1168
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:28,160
Speaker 1: podcast and our various previous podcasts going back to the

1169
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:30,920
Speaker 1: av Club. But one of the things that I am

1170
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 1: seeing in the hole like Michael backlash and backlash to

1171
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 1: the backlash phenomenon is just people who connected with his

1172
01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 1: music emotionally want to feel good about connecting to his

1173
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:47,960
Speaker 1: music emotionally. And it kind of seems like from everything

1174
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 1: I've read about this movie, it's an invitation to consider

1175
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 1: him has a less complicated figure and connect to the

1176
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: music emotionally. And one thing that people really do not

1177
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 1: enjoy in real life or on the Internet is being

1178
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 1: told this thing that you liked or that made you

1179
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:07,440
Speaker 1: happy is bad and you're bad for liking it. You

1180
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,200
Speaker 1: should feel bad. And as soon as like that form

1181
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:14,360
Speaker 1: of conversation, you know, enters the picture, the details and

1182
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 1: the nuances get lost and it just like a knee jerk.

1183
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 1: You couldn't possibly mean that, so you must have an

1184
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:28,120
Speaker 1: agenda thing enters the conversation. The empathy gap around phrases

1185
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:31,200
Speaker 1: like virtue signaling has just been striking me for a

1186
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 1: very long time in terms of you couldn't possibly believe

1187
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 1: what you're saying because it differs from my opinion, So

1188
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 1: you must have an agenda for saying that thing. And

1189
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:43,600
Speaker 1: I'm seeing a lot of that around the conversation about

1190
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:44,040
Speaker 1: this movie.

1191
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 8: I hate it so much, Man, I hate that so much. Virtus,

1192
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 8: I wish, I wish that phrase had never been in

1193
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 8: bet At.

1194
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:53,800
Speaker 1: Well, there are quite a handful of phrases on the

1195
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:57,280
Speaker 1: Internet that are used to indicate that people that have

1196
01:04:57,360 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: any empathy whatsoever are bad, probably fake, and I find

1197
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 1: that very talent.

1198
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 6: Should we note also that we appreciate feedback coming from

1199
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 6: one of our bonus episodes that you're probably wondering, what

1200
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:13,720
Speaker 6: is this talk of Michael? You may be wondering, Well,

1201
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 6: you should sign up to our patreon patreon dot com

1202
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 6: slash next Picture Show when you can have access to

1203
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:25,440
Speaker 6: exciting conversations like us discussing the biopic Michael. So want

1204
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 6: to let you know, since this bit of bonus material

1205
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,200
Speaker 6: has found its way onto the main show, that this

1206
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 6: is out there for you a treasure trove of discussions

1207
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 6: about TV and movies.

1208
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 1: Yep, you can hear stuff that you're not hearing on

1209
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:40,160
Speaker 1: the main line. You can also introduce feedback about those

1210
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:42,840
Speaker 1: things and get us talking, because this is a rich

1211
01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:46,880
Speaker 1: question and a rich vein albeit a very dangerous and

1212
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 1: delicate one with a whole lot of threads to pull.

1213
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:52,160
Speaker 1: But we do enjoy having these kinds of conversations, which

1214
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:54,920
Speaker 1: is why we always appreciate feedback from our listeners. To

1215
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 1: reach us, you can leave a short voicemail at seven

1216
01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 1: seven three two three four nine seven three zero, or

1217
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:02,320
Speaker 1: email us at comments at next Pictureshow dot net. You

1218
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 1: can also send a recorded message to our email address

1219
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 1: if you want to make sure you get the wording

1220
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:08,080
Speaker 1: just right. That's it for this episode of the Next

1221
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 1: Picture Show. In our next episode, we'll talk about the

1222
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 1: Sheep Detectives, which is almost as short on pigs as

1223
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 1: Babe Pig in the City is short on sheep, but

1224
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 1: still has plenty to upset any parent who brought their

1225
01:06:17,600 --> 01:06:19,160
Speaker 1: five year old to what they thought was going to

1226
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 1: be a charming Disney esque funny animal adventure. Look for

1227
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:25,000
Speaker 1: that episode next Tuesday on your podcast of choice. For

1228
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 1: ad free versions the podcast, extra content and discussion fodder,

1229
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 1: find us on Patreon dot com, slash Next Picture Show.

1230
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:34,439
Speaker 1: You can find us at Next Picture Show dot net

1231
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 1: and on Blue Sky at the Next Picture Show Until

1232
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 1: next week. Remember thank the Pig. Do you hear me?

1233
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 1: A murderous shadow lies hard across my soul? So if

1234
01:06:45,600 --> 01:07:00,040
Speaker 1: I were you, I would thank the freaking pig. It

1235
01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:00,680
Speaker 1: was a good movie.

1236
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 10: Yeah, I seen here before once.

1237
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 5: Ryan Reynolds here for Mintmobile with a message for everyone

1238
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 5: paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love

1239
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:11,880
Speaker 5: everything good in this world, stop with mint You can

1240
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:14,919
Speaker 5: get premium wireless for just fifteen dollars a month, of course,

1241
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 5: if you enjoy overpaying. No judgments, but that's weird. Okay,

1242
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:23,040
Speaker 5: one judgment anyway, Give it a try at mintmobile dot com.

1243
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,840
Speaker 9: Slash and switch up front payment of forty five dollars

1244
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:27,760
Speaker 9: per three month plan equivalent to fifteen dollars per month

1245
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:29,640
Speaker 9: required intro rate for three months only, then full price

1246
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 9: plan options available, Taxes and fees extra, se full terms

1247
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:32,880
Speaker 9: at mintmobile dot com