WEBVTT - EXCLUSIVE: Inside Gloria Steinem’s Living Room 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:05.840 No one has all the answers, but when we ask 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:10.639 the right questions, we get a little closer, closer to truths, 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:16.560 closer to each other, even closer to ourselves. I'm journalist 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.280 Danielle Robe, and each week, my guests and I come 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.800 together to challenge the status quo and our own ways 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:27.360 of thinking by daring to ask what if, why not? 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:33.480 And who says so? Come curious, dig deep, and join 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:41.280 the conversation. It's time to question everything. There are perhaps 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:44.960 a handful of people alive today who have actually changed 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:51.960 the way a society thinks. Gloria Steinem is one of them. 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:55.480 You are living right now today wherever you're tuning in 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:58.600 from inside a world she helped build. If you have 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:00.920 a credit card in your wallet. If you've ever applied 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:03.360 for a mortgage without a man's signature, if you've ever 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:05.520 rented a car or opened a bank account without a 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:08.240 man's signature. If you've held a job outside the home 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:10.720 or had a partner who helps inside it. If you've 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.800 ever reported harassment at work and had somewhere to report 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:16.199 it to. If you've run a marathon, If your daughter 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:18.360 has ever played on a sports team, if you've ever 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:21.280 been treated by a female doctor, or spoken to a 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.240 female attorney, if you've sat on a jury, run for office, 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:26.679 kept your name when you got married, if you ever 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:29.000 made a choice about your own body and had the 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:31.600 legal right to make it. That is in large part 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:36.160 because of Gloria Steinum. With just a typewriter, a microphone, 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:40.160 a few extraordinary women alongside her, and an absolute refusal 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:43.839 to accept the world as it was, Gloria Steinem helped 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:47.400 shape a century, and today she's letting us into her 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:51.080 living room. Now this isn't just any living room. This room, 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:54.520 with yellow walls and yellow curtains, a green velvet couch 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:59.640 and a big, comfy red chair, sacred objects, talismans, photographs, 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:02.320 books all around, is one of the rooms where the 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.480 women's movement began. Women from all over the world have 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.960 passed through it. Ideas that changed history have been spoken 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:12.919 aloud in it, And somehow, even with all that legacy, 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:17.000 it still feels like the most glorious thing imaginable, a 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.320 room where no one is more important than anyone else. 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.440 But let me back up. Before she became one of 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:25.920 the leading voices of the women's movement, she was a 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:29.079 journalist in New York City. In nineteen sixty three, she 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:31.680 went under cover at the Playboy Club, posing as one 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:34.600 of the famous Bunnies. She worked for weeks and quietly 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:37.280 documented what life was really like for the women behind 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:41.160 the fantasy. Her story, a Bunny's Tale, became a sensation. 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:44.919 What followed was a lifelong, relentless pursuit of equality, co 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:48.959 founding Miss magazine, which brought women's stories into mainstream conversation, 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:54.320 helping establish the National Women's political Caucus, advocating for reproductive freedom, 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:58.960 financial independence, and equal representation not just as talking points, 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:03.080 but as lived urgency. Gloria Steinem didn't just write about 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:05.840 changing the rules women were expected to live by. She 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.840 went after the rules themselves. At almost ninety two years old, 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:11.919 in just a few weeks, she's one of the last 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:15.239 living architects of the modern women's movement. The women who 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.200 built this world alongside her, many of whom she considered 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:22.320 dear friends, are gone. She is still here, still in 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:26.079 her apartment, convening talking circles, still lighting torches. 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.320 But when they asked me who I'm passing my torch to, 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:32.960 I always say, I'm keeping my torch, thank you very much. 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:38.640 I'm using my torch to light other torches, because unless 0:03:38.760 --> 0:03:41.400 each one of us has a torch, we can't see 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:42.560 where the hell were going. 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:45.840 She doesn't give many interviews inside her home anymore. The 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.480 last time a camera was in her living room for 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:52.280 a sit down interview was Architectural Digest in twenty twenty four. 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:56.320 Before that, Oprah in twenty twenty one. This past year, 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.960 I've gotten to spend some really good time with Gloria 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:03.040 her home as one of her fellows. Now. The first 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.520 time I met Gloria, I didn't know what to expect. 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.400 I had read all of her words, and she and 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:11.400 her friends welcomed me. I sat across from her, and 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.080 I thought I would be nervous, but I actually felt 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:18.280 completely at ease. Gloria beautifully accepts people wherever they are 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.760 on their path, and she's completely without ego. She is 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:23.800 the first person to tell you she is no different 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:26.440 from anyone else. One of my favorite lines that she 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:28.920 says when people come up to her and nervously ask 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:30.960 what will happen when our daughters don't know who you 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:34.040 are anymore? And she says, It's not important that they 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:36.520 know who I am, It's important that they know who 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:40.320 they are, and she means it. Emma Watson once said 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:43.080 about Gloria that it's almost as if from birth Gloria 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:45.919 was calibrated like a compass to true North and is 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:49.039 now patiently and with good humor, making her way toward 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:52.120 that destination. I love that line because it is so 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:57.279 true and so fitting. Gloria believes in personal testimony, the 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:00.120 sharing and passing on of women's stories. I mean, she 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.719 often says that sharing her honest stories with other women 0:05:02.800 --> 0:05:04.640 is one of the most feminist things we can do, 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:06.839 and I think that's a big part of the magic 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.120 of the talking circles she holds in her living room. 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:11.680 As her fellow I've gotten to throw some and attend 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:15.880 some people of all ages and backgrounds and experiences gather 0:05:16.000 --> 0:05:19.279 to share their honest perspectives. It's obvious she's made it 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:21.640 her mission to understand stories that are not her own. 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:25.560 Gloria deeply respects and learns from women and their heritage. 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:28.279 One of the things I have come to love most 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:32.800 about Gloria is her plain common sense. She calls things 0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:35.320 out as she sees them, as they are, and it 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:38.360 will make you laugh out loud. She just sees through 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:41.400 the noise of how things are and straight into how 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:45.160 they could be. It's definitely one of her superpowers. Another 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:48.680 one is that she never loses hope. Sometimes the world 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:53.479 Gloria and envisions can feel impossibly far away, wildly optimistic even, 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:56.160 But the longer I spend with her, the more I 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:59.400 believe it's possible that the work of true equality can 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:02.039 get done. And you know what else, I've come to 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:04.760 believe spending time with her, that the work trying to 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:09.320 get there really matters too. The world Gloria envisions is 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:11.880 not the world we live in, not yet, but she's 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:14.720 never once acted like it wasn't coming now. In almost 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:18.040 every interview, people ask Gloria about the future of feminism 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:20.120 what does she see coming? And I'm going to tell 0:06:20.160 --> 0:06:22.760 you now, I did not ask her that, mostly because 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:25.200 I find it to be an annoying question, and at 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.400 ninety two years old, I was not about to annoy her. 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:29.480 But I did ask what she thinks we all have 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:32.360 to look forward to at ninety two, and I promise 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:34.840 you you want to hear her answer at the end 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:38.160 of this interview, do not miss that part. So today 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:40.839 I'm bringing you into the home of a woman who 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:44.960 changed hours. It's time to question everything with the one 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:54.039 and only Gloria Steina. Gloria, you are known for so 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:58.919 many things, but you are legendary for these talking circles 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:01.400 in your living room, which is where we are right now, 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:06.040 and you have an open door policy. Women from all 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:09.400 over the world have come and sat in this living room. 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:11.600 Where did the open door policy come from? 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:15.120 Well, I think the idea of a movement, a social 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:19.720 justice movement, women's movement, civil rights movement, is meant to 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:26.480 include everybody because it's trying to both change society and 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:31.480 assist society. So why would you keep anybody out? 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.760 Was it like that in your home growing up? Did 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:36.040 you have an open door policy? 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:40.760 No, because my father had a little summer resort in 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:45.160 southern Michigan, and in the winter time he put us 0:07:45.160 --> 0:07:48.119 all in a house trailer, me, my sister, the dog, 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.960 my mother, and we went to Florida or California, so 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:55.360 we didn't exactly have a door. I mean, we stayed 0:07:55.400 --> 0:08:01.000 in trailer parks, which are themselves very democratic, Butty stays there. 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:03.040 But it wasn't like having a house. 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:06.960 Do you have fond memories of traveling and being on 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:09.520 the road on car trips as a kid or did 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:10.200 you not like it? 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:12.400 No? I think I liked it. But what I liked 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:14.320 about it was that I could sit in the backseat 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:17.440 and read a book and my mother would say, look 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:19.400 out the window you and I would say, but I 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:20.800 looked a while ago. 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:22.880 Do you remember what you would read? Would you read 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:24.240 Little Women? Yes? 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:28.000 Louisa May Alcott was my hero, not only because of 0:08:28.040 --> 0:08:32.640 Little Women, which was something she wrote for young readers, 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:37.040 but she also wrote stories about the Civil War and 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.720 very adult and sometimes depressed stories too. 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:45.960 Did books give you a larger imagination of what it 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:48.560 meant to be a woman or did you find them 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:50.000 to be constrictive at the time. 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:53.360 Well, because I wasn't going to school that much, and 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:57.560 I was reading all the time, and reading indiscriminately. I 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:00.959 would just go to the little local library and read 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:05.280 up and down the shelves. So I read all kinds 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:09.040 of things that I probably wouldn't have been directed to read, 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:13.600 not because of any reason except maybe age, But I 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:14.679 just was hooked. 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:18.200 I have a very funnier dorky saying that I love 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.920 shoes and I love books, and they both take you places. 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:25.160 So as a kid, your mantra was everybody has a 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:28.720 home but me. Do you feel like, as an adult 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.840 your mantra has changed to I have a home for everybody. 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:34.920 Well, definitely, I feel I have a home now and 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.520 this has really been my permanent home for a very 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:43.000 long time, first shared with a roommate, barbonessum and now 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:46.920 on my own. I suppose growing up, I imagined that 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:49.360 you couldn't have a home until you were married and 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.680 had children. I didn't understand that women on our own 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.240 could also have a home. It took a while. 0:09:55.679 --> 0:09:58.720 It must have been very exciting when you moved into 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:01.720 this place. Did it mean something more than just a 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:02.720 place to lay your head? 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:06.839 Yes? Well, my roommate Barbonessa, the artist Burboness, we had 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:11.160 been living in a one room studio on fifty sixth 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:15.120 Street between fifth and sixth here and then finally I 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:17.880 can't remember how we found this, but this was like 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:20.240 twice as much space. You were excited. 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:25.120 I can imagine sharing a one room apartment in New 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:27.400 York is not easy, even if you like your roommate. 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:31.000 You said you always wanted a conventional home as a kid. 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:35.480 Do you feel like this has become a symbol for you? 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:39.040 Or more a symbol that you share with other people. 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:42.680 I'm glad to have, as who was at Virginia set 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:46.559 a room of one's own. I think we all need that, 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:50.520 and women are probably less likely to have that, So 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:53.960 I'm happy about that. As I was saying, I moved 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:58.000 here first with the roommates, so it kind of arrived 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:02.640 in steps. I don't think I moved in and thought, oh, yes, 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:05.440 this is it. I'm going to stay here forever. Oh really, 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:06.719 it just happened. 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:12.280 Because you've told me before that you didn't decorate right away, right, 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:14.960 it took like ten years to decorate this place. 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:17.600 Well, I never did decorate exactly. I mean there was 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:21.560 a friend who was living here from London and she 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:26.760 was helping a man friend of mine decorate his apartment. 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:31.360 Oh wow. So while she was doing that, she took 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:35.440 me around to auctions and taught me how to bid 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:37.920 on whatever it was that I wanted. I mean, all 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:39.280 of these things are old. 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:41.600 I think they all have meaning though, Like you have 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:45.040 so many elephants, which you love the elephant painting behind me. 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.319 You have books from all of your travels. All of 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:51.280 the knickknacks feel like they're meant to be there. They 0:11:51.280 --> 0:11:51.880 have a place. 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:55.679 Well, yeah, I mean they arrived somewhat accidentally, but by 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.520 now they have a place. I mean, this door is 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:02.280 a granary door from India. Even though I didn't buy 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:04.360 it in India, I bought it here in New York. 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.080 You have such happy memories of India, it seems you 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.000 talk about your time there quite a lot. 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:13.280 Yes, well, I went there shortly after I graduated from college. 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:17.120 I was engaged in trying to get unengaged, and also 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:20.160 I fell in love with the country because it was 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:26.040 newly independent, celebrating and finding itself, and also so diverse. 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:29.160 You know, there are fourteen major languages within India. 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.080 I think, do you remember when you got engaged? Kind 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:34.200 of yeah, did it stress you out or what did 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:35.080 that moment feel like? 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:38.800 I think I didn't quite know what to do with myself. 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.560 I was about to graduate. I didn't know what would happen. 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.560 He lived in New York and understood Manhattan, so that 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:51.040 was already kind of an interesting mystery. He was also 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:56.600 the best friend of the fiance of my friend, a 0:12:56.640 --> 0:13:00.600 young woman who was a student with me, so it 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:03.640 had that kind of almost familial connection. 0:13:04.120 --> 0:13:06.760 Do you have a really happy childhood memory that sticks 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:07.160 out to you. 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.560 Well, I was in love with animals always, so the 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.640 dog would have puppies, and I couldn't give up the puppies. 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:18.000 I would get a rabbit for Easter. I don't think 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:21.280 this happens anymore, I hope. But if you bought Easter 0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:25.079 shoes as a child, they gave you a baby bunny, 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:26.760 you're kidding, Nor. 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:30.000 For every pair of shoes, that's crazy. 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.920 Well, no, not one per customer, I think, you know. 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.800 So there was this white bunny that I was always 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.360 kind of worried about with all the wild bunnies that 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:42.960 were not white that were out there, you know, But 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:44.040 I hope it was. 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:47.000 Okay, that's a really sweet memory. I wasn't expecting you 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:47.440 to say that. 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:47.680 You know. 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.240 I've never seen you light up as much as when 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:52.400 there was a dog staying here for a few days. 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.199 So I got to see your love of animals up close. 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.280 Yes, No, I was always growing up with animals, and 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:04.120 I loved horses. Think girls and horses have a special connection. 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.720 And there was a period of time in which I 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:12.120 had a horse in a nearby farm garage or something. 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:14.560 I mean, it was too much for me. I couldn't 0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:17.800 take care of the horse properly, but it was great. 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.040 And I know you love New York and you love 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:23.360 Manhattan so much. I'm surprised because you can't really have 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:24.280 animals here. 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:27.560 Well, you could always have animals in your house, cats 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:30.120 and dogs, right, And I'm not going to have a 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:33.760 horse again. But I love New York because it's big, 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:38.000 it's diverse, you can walk around. It was once Mannahatta 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:41.240 Island before Europeans showed up. I mean, it has a 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:42.040 long history. 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.760 When you think about your mom and your dad, is 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:49.200 there a trait that you think you've inherited from each 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:50.680 one of them that stands out? 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.600 Yes, I think so. I mean my mother had been 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:57.320 a journalist before she was married. She worked for a newspaper. 0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:59.880 She loved it. I remember her teaching me how to 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:04.120 to use a reporter's notebook. They're the long, skinny ones 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:05.760 you put in your hand, you know, so you can 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:10.080 write with the other hand. So that acquired an attraction. 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:14.880 My father had this little summer resource where people danced 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.640 over the water and under the stars, as his slogan 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:23.040 put it, and he was happy, never having a job 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:25.800 in his life. He always worked for himself, so I 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:29.600 probably absorbed from both of them in obvious ways. 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.480 It's funny that you bring that up, because in so 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:34.760 many of your interviews when you talk about your dad, 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:37.680 you mentioned two things. You mentioned that he never had 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.160 a job. He was always freelance, and you seem to 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.680 really admire that and that he could sustain his own way. 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.680 And then secondly, that he never wore hats. Why did 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:48.040 you like that he never wore a hat. 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:54.640 I suppose hats were a symbol of business or conformity 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:58.960 or upper middle class, because if you worked in a factory, 0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:01.080 you didn't wear a hat. I don't know, I mean, 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.400 but they had some kind of symbolism. So I was 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:05.680 glad he didn't share that. 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:08.240 You liked that he was unconventional. 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:10.240 Yeah, I don't know if I thought of it that 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:13.800 way exactly. And he was also very kind. His cure 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:17.240 for everything was a movie in a malted which is 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:17.800 pretty good. 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:21.360 Actually, when's the last time you got to enjoy that combination? 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:24.480 Oh, I don't remember, so so long ago, I mean 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:24.920 it was. 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:29.120 Pre ten Speaking of movies, I did not realize how 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:32.960 much you loved Breakfast at Tiffany's Gloria. That movie had 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:35.320 such an impact on your life. Do you remember when 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:36.040 you first saw it? 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:43.280 Well, also, Truman Capote had written about her as a character, yeah, 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:48.240 before the movie, and actually in his story she leaves 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.200 and goes to Africa. I mean there's more of her life, 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:55.040 I think in his story than there is in the movie. 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:59.640 But in both cases, she just seemed free. And she'd 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:03.320 had difficult childhood. She had a brother who was ill 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.240 or she worried about. You know, it wasn't all fun, 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:07.920 but it was free. 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:10.360 Do you consider your childhood difficult? 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.560 No? I don't, actually, you know, because I always felt 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:17.600 loved my parents. I mean, life was not easy for them, 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:20.879 but they always treated me like an equal member of 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:21.600 the household. 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:23.200 It was a democratic household. 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:24.680 Yeah, Gloria. 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:28.120 Before we ever even met, I had read all your books. 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:30.719 I had not read this one. I had no idea 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.159 that you had written five hundred pages on self esteem. 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:36.160 Yes, I don't exactly know how that happened. 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.199 We've never talked about this book, and so when I 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:41.680 was reading it, this is when I found out how 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:46.520 Breakfast at Tiffany's impacted you. Will you share why it 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:48.880 made you so emotional? Because in this book you talk 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.320 about tearing up? Was it the freedom. 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:55.119 Because she was totally on her own. She had great 0:17:55.200 --> 0:17:59.840 hopes but not much support. She had come to me 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:02.960 or on her own, I think, and she had a 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:06.159 brother at home she was looking after who was vulnerable. 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:11.080 In some way, she was her own self and making 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:15.040 her own world in a way that probably was not 0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:19.800 so true. Say of my earlier heroine, Louisa may Alcott. 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:23.000 Well, a friend told you that you turned yourself into 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:26.120 Holly overnight, and then in this book you write about 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:29.679 lacing your hair with blonde streaks, wearing kerchiefs, and even 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.639 rocking the big iconic sunglasses. I didn't realize that it 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:34.560 was from that movie. 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:38.200 Yeah, of course I was nearsighted, so I eated glasses. Anyway. 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:41.840 They were all prescriptions, right, I mean, you're very utilitary, 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:46.080 but she was. It was a movie about a free woman. Yeah. 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:47.720 Did you consider her a feminist? 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:50.240 Yeah? I don't know if I thought about it in 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:52.879 those terms, and I don't know if she did either. 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:59.119 But she was clearly trying to lead her own life 0:18:59.280 --> 0:18:59.879 by coming to me. 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.440 Did the movie make you think about romance or love 0:19:03.480 --> 0:19:03.800 at all? 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.760 Not really, because it wasn't what it was about She 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:12.080 wasn't seeking engagement and marriage, She was trying to live 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:12.680 a life. 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:15.080 If I was going to watch the movie for the 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:17.159 first time, which I have to be honest with you, 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:19.000 I only saw it for the first time last night, 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:21.359 what would it teach me about you? 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.520 I think that in a period of time in which 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.800 it wasn't so easy to be an independent woman. It 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.359 was after World War Two, I think people striving to 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:38.720 make suburbs and families and had been more absent during 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:43.000 the war, so she stood out as someone who was 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:45.280 making her own life. 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:48.160 Were you excited when you got to have a cameo 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:50.680 in First Wives Club later in life? Did it make 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:52.520 you think of your dad and his love of film? 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:55.880 No, I don't know why I did it exactly because. 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:58.159 You show up at the end the final scene. 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:02.120 Yes, and I knew people who were acting in it. 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.159 But it's very nervous making to feel you're in a 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:09.119 movie scene that everything you do is showing somehow well. 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:12.040 I also read that clothes used to give you anxiety, 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.400 so I can't imagine you loving a film set and 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:15.960 getting all dolled up. 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:19.040 It was a realistic movie, so we did not get 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:21.479 that dolled up. I mean we were not wearing somebody 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:22.840 else's clothes. I don't think. 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:24.840 No, you looked like you. You had a very chic 0:20:25.000 --> 0:20:28.520 black suit and a nice blowout. You definitely looked like you. 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.320 You wanted to be a dancer, and that's part of 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:33.480 what got you out of Toledo. So you were always 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:36.199 sort of into entertainment in some way. What made you 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:37.760 pick up those tap shoes early. 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:40.840 On probably Shirley Temple or seeing movies and there was 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:44.960 adult black man who was her tap dancing partner. And 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:47.800 I mean she was one of the few young women 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:52.119 in movies, so she seemed like she had her own life, 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:55.120 I think, and movies were a big source of escape. 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:59.000 As I was saying, my father's idea of escape and 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.439 reward was a malted in a movie. 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:04.200 And then I was reading that you would help support 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.600 your mother through tap dancing too. Did it become something 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:09.280 you felt like you had to do or you always 0:21:09.280 --> 0:21:09.800 loved it? No? 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:12.560 I always loved it, And I don't know that I 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.040 ever thought I was good enough to have a career. 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:21.000 But where other students might have been playing basketball or something, 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:23.760 I was going to tap dancing classes. 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:26.119