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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Now, let's get over

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Speaker 1: to Michael Dean, is a Bloomberg Intelligence senior autos analysts.

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Speaker 1: I probably read more of Michael Dean's research than anyone

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Speaker 1: else on the Bloomberg terminal. Um now, I definitely do,

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Speaker 1: and he joins us now to talk about Ferrari's news CEO. Michael,

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Speaker 1: It's been a long time coming. We've been waiting for

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Speaker 1: a name to replace Louis Kennellieri, and now we get

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Speaker 1: um someone I never heard of from st Microelectronics who

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Speaker 1: designs what like touch screen interactivity. Yes, that's right, Um.

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Speaker 1: I haven't heard of him either, and he's certainly unknown

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Speaker 1: to also invest this but shouldn't be a surprise because

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Speaker 1: it was only back on April fifteenth that John Alcan,

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Speaker 1: the Ferrari CEO and chairman at the time, said that

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Speaker 1: he wanted someone with the background. So that's what we've

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Speaker 1: got at the moment. All right. But you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: not a car geek like Matt Miller and you and

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Speaker 1: Kevin tain In. But um, I love the sound of,

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Speaker 1: you know, a Ferrari wearing down the street. Here. What

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Speaker 1: happens when they become electric? Yeah, that's a tough one

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Speaker 1: because if you listen to the officiados, they will say,

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Speaker 1: you know, we don't want electric. That certainly happened to Porsche.

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Speaker 1: But we've seen with the take and it can be

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Speaker 1: very successful. And we've seen from the competing luxury brands

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Speaker 1: such as with Lamborghini, Bentley and Rolls Royce they all

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Speaker 1: have electrification strategies. That's the way it's going. And even

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Speaker 1: Ferrari have said they're going to have their first battery

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Speaker 1: electric vehicle in two thousand and twenty five. You know this.

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Speaker 1: Yesterday I was listening to David Weston, he was interviewing

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Speaker 1: one of Ford's big execs on their new pickup truck. That, um,

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Speaker 1: it looks pretty cool. It's less than twenty dollars. Um

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Speaker 1: it's the Maverick. It's a small, smaller pickup truck. But

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Speaker 1: it's going to be a hybrid, And David said, why

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Speaker 1: didn't you go fully electric? Like doing a hybrid was

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Speaker 1: almost to fail. No offense to David, but that's kind

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Speaker 1: of the general. Um, that's the general thought right now.

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Speaker 1: Why is fully electric considered better than the hybrid, which

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Speaker 1: to me is a far better solution. Well, I think

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Speaker 1: it's all to do evaluation. If you look at um

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Speaker 1: where Tesla is valued and the legacy automate makers want

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Speaker 1: want to have some of that sort of tech evaluation

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Speaker 1: rubbing off on them, and they can't do that unless

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Speaker 1: they're fully electric, or that's the perception. And that's why

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Speaker 1: Volkswagen has had such a good run this year because

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Speaker 1: it's jumping in with both feet in terms of full

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Speaker 1: electrification and it's probably gonna overtake totaled by two thousand

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Speaker 1: and twenty four. And hybrid is seen as a halfway house,

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Speaker 1: you know still you know, combustion engine and only half

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Speaker 1: electric and you know in a few all cars will

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Speaker 1: be fully electric. I'm sure boy. All right, So Michael,

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Speaker 1: where is Ferrari? You kind of suggested that they're behind

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Speaker 1: some of their key competitors, like portion Lamborghinia. Is that

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Speaker 1: this year has underperformed shockingly. Yeah. Yeah, I think part

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Speaker 1: of the reason is because they don't have a well

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Speaker 1: defined classification strategy. So their target was to have of

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Speaker 1: their vehicles sold next year being hybrids. They're well behind

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Speaker 1: with that. So what the new CEO has to do

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Speaker 1: and what will probably happen in the first quarter of

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Speaker 1: next year, has come out with a well defined electrification strategy,

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Speaker 1: also a carbon neutral strategy. That's all satisfy investors. What

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Speaker 1: does this mean for the super fast V twelve? Is

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Speaker 1: that going to go the way of the stick shift

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Speaker 1: at Ferrari? Yeah, I think so. So they just announced

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Speaker 1: a special edition V twelve which sells for half a

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Speaker 1: million euros, only making five hundred of them, so getting quickly.

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Speaker 1: But that could be the last V twelve on Ferrari

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Speaker 1: and probably the next main engine that they'll have will

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Speaker 1: be a V six hybrid. Yeah, Matt, you should know.

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Speaker 1: I've asked Michael Dean on many occasions in his interactions

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Speaker 1: with BMW to bring back the stick shift for the

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Speaker 1: five series here in America. They've discontinued it. I'm just

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Speaker 1: crushed here date Michael. Michael has tried to no avail.

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Speaker 1: I actually Uh. There was a time at Fiat Chrysler

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Speaker 1: when I sat down with Sergio. They were just putting

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Speaker 1: out the Alfa Romeo fur C and I said, why

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Speaker 1: don't you make a stick shift? I mean, this is

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Speaker 1: the car that needs to have a manual transmission. And

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Speaker 1: he said, Matt, you and I would be the only buyers.

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Speaker 1: And Michael, that's is that a is that a global trend?

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Speaker 1: And mean it seems like I see more stick shifts

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Speaker 1: in Europe than I do. Certainly U US you don't

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Speaker 1: see CEO many of them anymore as a hit. But

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Speaker 1: I would say, you know, driver Porsche taken and afterwards

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Speaker 1: say that you know, electrification isn't bad for for cars

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Speaker 1: going forward. I'm sure it's amazing. I haven't driven one yet,

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Speaker 1: but I would miss the the roar of the scream

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Speaker 1: in the terms of the boxer. Michael hind Me, Michael Dean,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Always appreciate chatting

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Speaker 1: with you with particularly Matt appreciates chatting with you talking cars.

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Speaker 1: Senior analyst, he covers the European automotive business. Good Partner

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Speaker 1: with Kevin Tyiny New covers the the US Auto Guys

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Speaker 1: and a together put out some great global research on

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Speaker 1: the global automotive business for Bloomberg Intelligence and b I

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Speaker 1: Go and you can find all that good stuff there.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about cybersecurity because we've seen so many of

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Speaker 1: these ransomware attacks UM, Colonial Pipeline and JBS the biggest

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Speaker 1: of late UM, but we've also seen issues pop up.

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Speaker 1: Yesterday it turned out to be maybe a fat finger

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Speaker 1: on the part of fast Lee, but it kind of

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Speaker 1: freaked out markets for a moment. We saw charts go

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Speaker 1: a little bit haywire when um the Internet appeared to

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Speaker 1: stop working for a moment. Shannon will Coinson joins as

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Speaker 1: founder and CEO of to Go Cyber and just just

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Speaker 1: in terms of what we saw yesterday, Shannon turned out

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Speaker 1: to be nb D, but for for for a moment,

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Speaker 1: it seemed as if something horrible may have happened. Is

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Speaker 1: it possible that a cyber attack could just shut down

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Speaker 1: the Worldwide Web for a little while. Absolutely, it would

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Speaker 1: be interesting. And if you remember, a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 1: the Internet went down on the East Coast due to

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Speaker 1: another fat finger configuration error at one of the domain

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Speaker 1: registry services. So it's absolutely possible either that a cyber

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Speaker 1: attack or one of these engineer issues could absolutely take

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Speaker 1: the Internet down. And even Russia had some issues with

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Speaker 1: their Internet when they tried to do some sort of

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Speaker 1: blocking of Twitter and some of the social media platforms

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Speaker 1: that at their I s P. Level, Um, they actually

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Speaker 1: fat fingered or made some configuration errors and took down

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Speaker 1: the Internet than Russia for about half a day, I

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Speaker 1: think it was. So it's key. It's key to point

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Speaker 1: out that doesn't mean, um, it's not simply you know,

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Speaker 1: no more cat photos on Instagram. There are ways that

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Speaker 1: the Internet works, um in these times, you know that

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Speaker 1: that are vital to human life, right, Yes, absolutely. I

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Speaker 1: mean we live in a very connected world and we've

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Speaker 1: seen this migration the to to the cloud as well

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Speaker 1: as digitalization of business, so everything is connected now. Businesses

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Speaker 1: are relying on Internet cloud providers to provide essential business services,

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Speaker 1: and when those services aren't available, business stops. Shannon, it

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Speaker 1: just seems like it's getting so much more frequent. Here,

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Speaker 1: give us a sense of how much of this is

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Speaker 1: just you know, a knucklehead in a garage somewhere, you know,

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Speaker 1: up to no good versus maybe some state actors or

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Speaker 1: organized crime. Where is this all coming from? It's definitely

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Speaker 1: a combination of both the Colonial pipeline and the JBS

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Speaker 1: is those are more state sponsored affiliate cyber crime groups.

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Speaker 1: And then you you also have on the flip side

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Speaker 1: what is known as the script kiddies, the the you know,

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Speaker 1: atypical hooded, basement dwelling hacker that you know it is

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Speaker 1: just going out there for fun and seeing what you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of disruption or damage they can do. UM. So

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Speaker 1: it's definitely a combination of both of those factors, and

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Speaker 1: businesses just really need to um think about their services

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Speaker 1: and what they do and how much they rely on

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Speaker 1: their technology for business. In the Colonial CEOs testimony to

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Speaker 1: Congress yesterday, we found out that they didn't even have

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Speaker 1: a ransomware plan in place, even though they spend something

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Speaker 1: like forty million dollars a year on cybersecurity. They never

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Speaker 1: even considered what would happen if we got hit by

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Speaker 1: a ransomware attack. They didn't even have a two step

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Speaker 1: security process us. I mean, I can't even log into

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Speaker 1: my computer at work without submitting my fingerprint or you know,

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Speaker 1: a code from a token in any case. Um. There

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Speaker 1: there's the opposite side of that, right, Like, um, the

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Speaker 1: company that runs crack, and we had a great story

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Speaker 1: about them. They have gone as far as to make

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Speaker 1: your kids, eight year old kids sign n DA agreements

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Speaker 1: when they go to company picnics, And you've got to

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Speaker 1: change into everybody wears the same clothes at work UM

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Speaker 1: so that they won't be able to the the bad guys,

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Speaker 1: won't be able to tell exactly who you are. You've

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Speaker 1: got to kill all your social media UM profiles. How

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Speaker 1: far do do companies need to be going, Jen, I

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Speaker 1: think it's about finding a balanced crack. It might be

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Speaker 1: going a little bit over the top on their security protocols,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's about finding a good balance of

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Speaker 1: what makes sense and what a secure So definitely ensuring

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Speaker 1: that you have two factor authentication. I mean Colonial Pipeline

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Speaker 1: we found out. I think Bloomberg broke the news, but

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Speaker 1: it was due to a single compromised account at Colonial

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Speaker 1: Pipeline that was the factor that resulted in the ransomware

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Speaker 1: attacked there. So a single employee account allowed the ransomware

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Speaker 1: to be activated on the network. So enabling two factor authentication,

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Speaker 1: having security protocols in place, having plans for when incidents occur,

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Speaker 1: and just really finding a good balance between what will

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Speaker 1: not disrupt the security the operations of the business and

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Speaker 1: what's a good balance for security at the business as well,

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Speaker 1: So you know, kind of a marriage of business strategy

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Speaker 1: and cybersecurity strategy working together to make sure that the

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Speaker 1: business can continue operating in this new digital age. Shannon,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. We really appreciate getting

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Speaker 1: your thoughts on insight on this rising issue ransomware in

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Speaker 1: corporate America. Shannon Wilkinson, founder and CEO of Atago Cyber Well,

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Speaker 1: before you flashback, you know a little bit more than

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Speaker 1: a year ago when we started this pandemic and the

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Speaker 1: resulting economic contraction that we experienced was just extraordinary historic.

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Speaker 1: But the recovery has been as well. As the vaccines

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Speaker 1: get in across the US, the economy is reopening and

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Speaker 1: we're seeing that in the stock market as well as

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Speaker 1: a lot of those reopening players are working very well.

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Speaker 1: For investor Brad McMillan. He's a Chief Investment Officer of

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Speaker 1: Commonwealth of Financial Network. They have about two thirty two

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Speaker 1: billion dollars in assets under management. So a couple of

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Speaker 1: shuckles there, Brad joins us here. Brad, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for coming on. I'd love to get your thoughts here

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Speaker 1: as we look back over the last fifteen years and again,

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Speaker 1: the beginning of the pandemic, the contraction in the economy,

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Speaker 1: and then the reopening, how are you telling your clients

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Speaker 1: to position their portfolios here as this reopening seems to

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Speaker 1: be really gaining some momentum here in the United States.

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Speaker 1: I think it's important to put this into context because

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Speaker 1: when we talk about the pullback, when we talk about

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Speaker 1: the recession, yes, of course it was the pandemic, but

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Speaker 1: it was really from an economic perspective, the policy response

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Speaker 1: the pandemic that sunk the economy, the shutdowns. So when

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Speaker 1: you look at this what we're seeing, you know, yes,

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Speaker 1: we've seen a fantastic recovery. Were largely just recovering back

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Speaker 1: to the previous trend line. So as we moved past

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Speaker 1: the pandemic, it's about the economy, and the economy continues

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Speaker 1: to do extremely well. You know, I think we've still

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Speaker 1: got some more upside ahead. But wasn't there any serious

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Speaker 1: damage done by the government stepping in and shutting everything down? Well,

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Speaker 1: of course there was, and that was the pullback, But

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Speaker 1: then the question becomes how lasting is that damage? The

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Speaker 1: damage was real, and it was substantial in the short term,

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Speaker 1: and if we if the government had left it at that,

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Speaker 1: then we very well might be looking at the depression

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Speaker 1: right now. But that's not what they did. They gave

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Speaker 1: the cushion to us through that and to get us

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Speaker 1: back to reopen it. And because of that, we're simply

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Speaker 1: in a place where if you look a year on year,

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Speaker 1: absolutely huge huge changes. If you look over the past

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Speaker 1: two years, actually we're still pretty much on track. So, Brad,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that you know, I think about

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Speaker 1: a lot is kind of how will consumer behaviors change

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Speaker 1: or will they change post pandemic as we come out

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Speaker 1: on the other side of this. For example, will people

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Speaker 1: go on cruise ships, Will they you know, go on

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Speaker 1: planes and things like that with a go to movie theaters?

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Speaker 1: How are you thinking about that? And if you made

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Speaker 1: any you know, investment calls based upon what you think

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Speaker 1: might be some changing consumer behaviors, well, certainly when you

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Speaker 1: look at the airline numbers, you know you can make

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Speaker 1: a good case that weas your travel is well on

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Speaker 1: its way back. The real question there from an investment

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Speaker 1: perspective is going to be our business travelers going to

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Speaker 1: be coming back because that's where a lot of the

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Speaker 1: profits come from, and there I think the news is

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Speaker 1: a lot more mixed. So certainly when you look at

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Speaker 1: the headlines, I think it's fair to say people are

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Speaker 1: changing their behaviors. I don't think the the extensive use

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Speaker 1: of internet shopping, for example, is going to go away.

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Speaker 1: People have found out how easy that is. But more

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Speaker 1: common things like restaurants, absolutely they're coming back, and I

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Speaker 1: think the market has already gotten ahead of that. I

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Speaker 1: don't think there's a lot of opportunity there at the moment,

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Speaker 1: but certainly, you know there was some money to be

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Speaker 1: made about what that, you know, six or eight months

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Speaker 1: ago when the uncertainty was at a peak. So where

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Speaker 1: is the opportunity. I mean, if you've got spare cash

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Speaker 1: sitting around, need to put it to work, what do

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Speaker 1: you do with it? I think the stock market in

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Speaker 1: general is a good place because when you look at

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Speaker 1: the earnings expectations and how the markets priced, we're still

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Speaker 1: in a position to see earnings go up. I think

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Speaker 1: healthcare there are some opportunities that still very much. We're

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Speaker 1: seeing a revolution, particularly in biotech. You know that hasn't

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Speaker 1: been fully appreciated yet UM some firms are now putting

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Speaker 1: in UM requests to evaluate vaccines for the slow and

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Speaker 1: if that comes through, I mean obviously that would be huge.

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Speaker 1: So there's knowledge opportunities. If you want something that's a

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Speaker 1: little bit more basic, I think financials. I think is

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Speaker 1: the economy normalizes, we're going to see the interest rates normalized,

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Speaker 1: and that's going to give a tail wind to financials.

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Speaker 1: And I still think there's some opportunities there. So, Brad,

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Speaker 1: is this economy reopens. One of the things that you know,

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Speaker 1: economists are really looking closely at, certainly is the employment

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Speaker 1: getting people back to work, and we're still we've had

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Speaker 1: a couple of months of kind of blow expectation job numbers.

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Speaker 1: How concerned are you about that? Are you concerned that

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Speaker 1: perhaps something structurally may have changed in this economy where

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Speaker 1: you know, some of those jobs just aren't going to

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Speaker 1: come back if you go back that that's a common fear,

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Speaker 1: and I don't agree with it. I was actually just

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Speaker 1: looking at that this morning, because if you go back

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Speaker 1: to prior crises with typically happens is people move out

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Speaker 1: of the labor force. Okay, so they say, okay, it's

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Speaker 1: not worth it, and then the economy starts to open up,

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Speaker 1: wages start to rise again, and then they move back in.

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Speaker 1: And that's exactly what we're seeing. If you look at

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Speaker 1: the not in the labor force people, that's people who

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Speaker 1: want a job that is right now at about the

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Speaker 1: same level as the total number of jobs available. So

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Speaker 1: it's just a question of getting those people back into

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Speaker 1: the labor force. And if you look at that, you

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Speaker 1: can see them actually that you can see that happening.

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Speaker 1: So I think that's the first thing. This is a

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Speaker 1: totally normal process. We've seen this movie before. I think

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Speaker 1: the other thing that is getting people a little too

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Speaker 1: wound up is they're saying, how do we get back

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Speaker 1: to the record low unemployment levels we saw before the pandemic. Frankly,

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Speaker 1: that was unusual. If you look at the averages will

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Speaker 1: be if five is a pretty normal unemployment rate, we

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Speaker 1: should be there in the next three to six months,

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Speaker 1: and after that it's just real progress. So I think

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Speaker 1: by the end of the year will be falling. Brad,

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Speaker 1: thanks very much for joining us. Brad McMillan is the

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Speaker 1: chief investment Officer at Commonwealth Financial Network. As Paul says,

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Speaker 1: they have two hundred and thirty three billion dollars under management,

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Speaker 1: looking at a continued recovery for the economy, back to

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Speaker 1: the trend that we saw before the pandemic. And as

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Speaker 1: he points out, that trend was very good. We were

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Speaker 1: doing quite well economically before this thing hit and we

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Speaker 1: shut all of our businesses down. This is Bloomberg alright, Matt.

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Speaker 1: You know that one of the reasons I always love

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Speaker 1: these big take stories is because they often get me

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Speaker 1: to say, I didn't think of that, or you know,

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Speaker 1: that's how it works. Um. This most recent story, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about big oil companies. Matt. We've seen all the

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Speaker 1: news shareholders forcing them to go green, you know, reduce

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Speaker 1: their carbon footprint. But there's still demand out there for energy.

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Speaker 1: So who's filling that void as some of the big

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Speaker 1: majors pulled back? Kevin Crowley, he's a US oil reporter

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Speaker 1: for Bloomberg News. He joins us with his big big

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Speaker 1: take story entitled the Retreat of Excellent and the oil

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Speaker 1: Majors won't stop Fast or fuel. Kevin, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for for joining us here, and I love your story

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Speaker 1: here because it really goes to the issue of Okay,

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Speaker 1: Exxon and Chevron and Shell and all those guys. They're

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Speaker 1: pulling back on their energy footprint. But who's filling the

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Speaker 1: void exactly? That's a that's a that's the big question.

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Speaker 1: And really what we're saying here is it's national oil companies.

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Speaker 1: So those from those from Saudi Arabia, those from Russia,

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Speaker 1: those from those from parts of Africa, these are these

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Speaker 1: are these are companies that um, you know, less transparent

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Speaker 1: and and and have a less strong climate record UM

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Speaker 1: and also m really are only beholden to their to

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Speaker 1: their national governments. They do not have the same kind

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Speaker 1: of shareholder pressure that the publicly listed entities have UM

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Speaker 1: and so UM we by the oil majors retreating it,

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Speaker 1: it opens the gates for these companies to come in

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Speaker 1: and fill the gap, which will pose a new challenge

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Speaker 1: for climate activists going forward. I mean, the headline could

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Speaker 1: well be climate activists that oil majors shoot themselves in

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Speaker 1: the foot, because basically they're they're convincing UM, you know,

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Speaker 1: these publicly traded companies to hand back oil production or

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Speaker 1: hand over oil production to UM Chinese nationals, Russian nationals,

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Speaker 1: Middle East nationals, and they're not going to do such

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Speaker 1: a great job when it comes to um shrinking their

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Speaker 1: carbon footprint. Well, I think that's I think that, I

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Speaker 1: think that's true, and I think, yeah, but I think

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Speaker 1: I think the climate movement is focused on the oil

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Speaker 1: because it's really it's the it's the lowest hanging fruit. UM.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, these were these are these are

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Speaker 1: companies that are beholding to their shareholders and climate activists

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Speaker 1: you know, have worked over many many years to you, um,

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Speaker 1: to to gain influence through through the shareholding. Mean, the

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Speaker 1: most recent example was exceon Um lost three directors just

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Speaker 1: just a few weeks ago as a result of growing

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Speaker 1: climate climate activism. UM. But it's and it's not just

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Speaker 1: the climate activist Kevin I noticed recently when Congress was

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Speaker 1: questioning CEOs of the big banks, they were chiding them

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Speaker 1: for doing business with big oil majors, almost throwing national

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Speaker 1: um security, energy security concerns aside. But that's right, that's right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's under pressure from I mean, these or companies

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Speaker 1: under pressure from from political class. They are under pressure

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Speaker 1: from the from the banks who are looking to clean

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Speaker 1: up their own carbon footprint, shareholders, consumers, everyone, everyone, everyone around,

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Speaker 1: everyone is rounding on them. Now and I think, but

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Speaker 1: I think, but I think it's it's it's really it's

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Speaker 1: a They are the lowest hanging routs here, and I

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Speaker 1: think the climate movement thinks that, you know, we can

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Speaker 1: we can get these guys to change the Exxon Chevron's

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Speaker 1: shell vps of the world, then other other other companies

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Speaker 1: will will fulfall in line and will follow because while

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Speaker 1: the oil majors only produce around fifteen percent of the

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Speaker 1: world oil at the moment, they are at the forefront

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Speaker 1: of much of the technolog technologies around and they do lead.

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Speaker 1: So the thinking is that maybe you know, some of

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Speaker 1: these national oil companies will start will start to follow

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Speaker 1: their lead if if big oil does make a successful

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Speaker 1: pivot towards greener energy. It's interesting because you know that

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Speaker 1: part of your story where Exxon was getting out of

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Speaker 1: an Iraqi field, and you know they tried to sell

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Speaker 1: their steak, but nobody else would was even bidding forward.

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Speaker 1: So then I guess Iraq had to come in and

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Speaker 1: buy it, or China or China altos. Right, Well, the process, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the process is ongoing, but it's actually a remarkable it's

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Speaker 1: actually a remarkable turner turn of events. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: was this is this is one of the prized oils

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Speaker 1: after after the Second Iraq War, exons stepped into to

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Speaker 1: take it, and really it hasn't really performed UM as

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Speaker 1: well as they would like. If they're looking to they're

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Speaker 1: looking to get out of it. But as you said,

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Speaker 1: as you said, none of the none of the other

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Speaker 1: majors want to take it, and their Iraq UM made

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Speaker 1: a statement that actually they were interested in buying it themselves,

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Speaker 1: which is which is remarkable. Really mean, whether it whether

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Speaker 1: it actually happens or not, is a is another thing.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that they're even considering taking taking the

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Speaker 1: stake is it's quite as quite a remarkable curn of events.

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Speaker 1: And of course the other option then is the the

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Speaker 1: Chinese state state or backed companies. So either way, UM,

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Speaker 1: this field is likely to move out of the hands

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Speaker 1: of a Western super major and into the hands of

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Speaker 1: UM state state backed entity, which which are far less

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Speaker 1: transparent than the ones than the big oil companies. That

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Speaker 1: you have to wonder at some point if the US

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Speaker 1: government another Western governments are going to say, hang on

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Speaker 1: a second, this isn't working out the way we wanted

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Speaker 1: it to. UM. I noticed in your story that Mexico's

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Speaker 1: pem X, for example, is set to buy a Texas

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Speaker 1: refinery from Shell. So it's not even just properties abroad

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Speaker 1: that are going to these nationals, it's even um, you know,

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Speaker 1: part of the infrastructure on home soil if you will.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. That was That was That was

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Speaker 1: another surprising turn of events because you know, obviously most

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Speaker 1: of the time it's the private, private oil companies you know,

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Speaker 1: buy assets from or investing with state owned oil companies.

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Speaker 1: And really in this in this situation Pemic and Shell,

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Speaker 1: we're actually having the the reverse happening. But really it

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Speaker 1: comes back to demands. Um, you know, if if assuming

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Speaker 1: demands that stay strong as it has, the demands for

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Speaker 1: oil and gas as strong as it has done done

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Speaker 1: coming out of become of the pandemic, it really this

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Speaker 1: whole retraction from from the major's really opens the door

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Speaker 1: to the to these national oil companies, you know who

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Speaker 1: who are going to be the producers of of last aws.

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Speaker 1: So you know, while while we while the West is

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Speaker 1: doing certainly doing a job on the supply side, I

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Speaker 1: think the big big challenge really is to to reduce

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Speaker 1: fuels is on the demand side. As long as people

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Speaker 1: keep consuming oil and gas, keep you, companies will step

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Speaker 1: in to produce it. Now, whether that's the majors or

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Speaker 1: whether that's the national oil companies, you know, it's as

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Speaker 1: long as people are using oil and gas, um, you

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Speaker 1: know companies are going to be there to provide it. Absolutely. Hey,

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Speaker 1: great piece, Kevin. Really love UM the Big Takes series

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Speaker 1: and I love this one especially, So congratulations on that.

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Speaker 1: Kevin Crowley, Laura Hurst, and Rachel Adams heard writing the

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Speaker 1: retreat of Exxon and the oil majors won't stop fossil fuel.

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Speaker 1: Check it out and I Big Take Go. This is Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can

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Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever

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Speaker 1: podcast platform you prefer. I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter

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Speaker 1: at Matt Miller V three, and I False Sweeney. I'm

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at pt Sweeney. Before the podcast. You can

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Speaker 1: always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg Radio. M