WEBVTT - Doubt, Part Four: 'Let's Go to War' 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:05.200 Hello. My name is Rob Schneider, and I am proud 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:07.920 to be able to stand with you and say that 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:10.959 we can no longer be afraid to live in fear 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:17.000 of the powerful pharmaceutical companies. It's October an actor and 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:21.040 Saturday Night Live Along. Rob Schneider is performing at a 0:00:21.120 --> 0:00:25.040 virtual conference. He starts a set with a paper Whole 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:27.720 Foods bag over his head with a little eyes and 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:31.800 a mouth cut out. The joke, I think is that 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:35.280 he is shielding his identity from people who might find 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:39.280 what he is saying controversial. As long as we stand 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:43.440 together and be brave and courageous and stand up for 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:47.600 liberty and insists on body integrity, there's nothing big Pharma 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:50.920 can really do to us. He takes the bag off 0:00:50.920 --> 0:00:53.720 his head. At this point, as we've seen the last 0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:56.760 six months, our government is known is not only capable 0:00:57.040 --> 0:01:00.440 of taking away our liberties, they seem actually kind of 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:02.840 excited about it. He's sitting in what looks like a 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:07.040 messy office wearing a blue dress shirt and tie. He 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:10.800 pokes fun at lockdowns and social distancing and masks, and 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:15.480 even jokes that COVID isn't really a serious disease. And 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:19.280 then he moves on to COVID vaccines, and if you're 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:23.200 worried about the side effects, don't. This new vaccine will 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:26.280 be thoroughly tested to the same vigorous standards as all 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:30.240 other vaccines. No fewer than twelve people will be tested 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:32.919 for the vaccine that will be given to a billion people. 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:38.759 Other speakers at the conference include Sherry Tenpenny, an osteopathic 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:42.480 physician known for her expensive anti vaccine boot camps. There's 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:46.960 also wellness guru Dr Joseph mccola and former Minnesota State 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:52.000 Senator Dr Scott Jensen. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Spoke just 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:55.840 before Schneider, and Andrew Wakefield will give a speech tomorrow. 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:58.920 You've heard some of these names before in this series. 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.080 Some of them are new, but what they all have 0:02:02.120 --> 0:02:05.080 in common is that they are prominent or up and 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:10.760 coming members of the anti vaccine establishment. This conference is 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:14.320 a who's who of the biggest names in the anti 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:17.880 vax world. The conference was put on by the National 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.919 Vaccine Information Center. That's a group that has been questioning 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:27.560 vaccine safety since the theme of this year's conference is 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:31.520 protecting autonomy and healthcare, but not everyone sticks to that. 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:35.400 Some speeches focus on rights and liberty amid the pandemic. 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:40.880 Others preached alternative health practices or the ulterior motives of 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:45.440 big pharma. Sometimes the messages even kind of conflict with 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:50.880 each other. If you watch the conference, one thing becomes 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:56.280 absolutely clear. Speaker after speaker hits on the same point. 0:02:56.880 --> 0:03:00.639 The pandemic is an opportunity to grow the moon space 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:05.079 and they are not going to waste it. We need 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:07.919 all hands on desk. We need everybody to release their 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:10.320 fear from their brains, get rid of their mask, so 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:15.520 hug people and absolutely say no. We're seeing an inflection 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:22.280 of events is bringing our issue to the forefront of 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:27.200 Vaccines today are talked about every day, and we've seen 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:30.840 this now. The population who are aware of these issues 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:36.560 has grown dramatically in the face of coronavirus COVID nineteen. 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:39.840 All of the truths that we've been trying to broadcast 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:43.200 for many, many years, Um, there are people hearing it 0:03:43.520 --> 0:03:46.960 and the impact and those seeds are landing on very 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:53.520 fertile ground. That last voice belongs to Robert F. Kennedy Jr. 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:58.040 Kennedy is the founder of the Children's Health Events, a 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:02.120 group that pumps out a whole lot of vaccine misinformation. 0:04:03.000 --> 0:04:06.560 It is one of the most high profile anti vaccine groups. 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:11.800 Kennedy and just talk with a battle cry, and let's 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:15.000 go to war and protect these children. Thank you very much. 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:25.200 Let's go to war. If the pandemic is a battlefield. 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:29.920 The anti vax ER's are on the march, and they 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.560 have been gaining ground. They've been winning the hearts and 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:36.920 minds of the people in the middle, those who mostly 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:40.880 trust vaccines but maybe have some misgivings or questions about 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:45.719 the COVID nineteen shots. People are scared right now and 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:49.320 they're looking for answers, and this has given the anti 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:53.400 vaccine movement the chance to reach a bigger audience than 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:57.599 ever before. In this episode, we're going to look at 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:01.560 how this movement gets their message out and why people 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:05.599 believe it if they're waging a war. This is a 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:09.800 look at the battle plan. I'm Bloomberg News health reporter 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:15.440 Kristin B. Brown from the Prognosis podcast This is Doubt. 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:34.200 Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Was the nephew of JFK. His 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:38.479 dad was former Senator and U S. Attorney General Bobby Kennedy. 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:42.720 Both his dad and uncle were assassinated when he was 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:47.240 a kid. Kennedy is a lawyer, and until more recently, 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:51.080 he was best known for a long and impressive legacy 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:56.600 of environmental work. Over the past few years, Kennedy has 0:05:56.640 --> 0:06:01.080 increasingly turned his attention to vaccines. This is a little 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:05.440 ironic since his uncle JFK played a big role in 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:11.359 making vaccines routine in modern society. In ninety two, JFK 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:15.279 passed the Vaccine Assistance Act, which was really the first 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:19.480 national immunization program in the US, giving states federal money 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:24.040 to help make vaccines more accessible. These days, Kennedy is 0:06:24.080 --> 0:06:28.920 working in opposition to his uncle's legacy. Where JFK wanted 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:33.080 to give people more access to vaccines, Kennedy spends a 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:37.159 lot of his time discouraging people from getting them. Kennedy 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:40.120 says the movement was still pretty fringe when he got involved. 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:44.400 In the mid two thousands. He was advocating against mercury 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:49.359 polluting rivers and contaminating fish. He says moms would approach 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:53.320 after talks he gave worried about the mercury in vaccines. 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:58.080 Back in episode two, we talked about those mercury concerns. 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:02.280 There is a type of mercury used as a preservative 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:06.560 in some vaccines, but this mercury is cleared quickly by 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:10.280 the human body. It is not the same as the 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:14.440 stuff that was contaminating fish in rivers. But you could 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:17.640 see why this might cause some people to panic. So 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:21.239 Kennedy started looking into it because they kept hearing more 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:25.560 and more of these stories from moms. The movement at 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:31.119 that time, it was so tiny, really, just the people 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:35.600 who had been injured by vaccines. I had it actually injuries, 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:41.360 that's really I was I would say probably n the 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.760 mo time, and it was having almost it was having 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:49.360 a zero impact on vacccine rates, on vaccine coverage. He 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:53.240 says the movement grew gradually, people came to it as 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:57.640 the vaccine schedule expanded, and then later when states tightened 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:02.720 childhood vaccination laws. But Kennedy says this year has been different. 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:06.640 You know, it's undeniable that the explosive expansion of our 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:13.400 movement place after the pandemic. If you've been fighting against 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:17.960 vaccines for years, then a pandemic is a great opportunity 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:23.600 for your cause. Just think about it. The pandemic hit 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:27.960 in March. It's a new disease there is no vaccine. 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:34.600 It spreads rapidly, the world shuts down. By May, former 0:08:34.600 --> 0:08:39.240 President Donald Trump announces Operation Warp Speed. It's a public 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:44.320 private partnership meant to fast track vaccine development. And here's 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:48.080 where the window for the anti vaccine groups opens. Trump 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:53.360 keeps promising a vaccine by election day in November. The media, 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:58.040 who is often skeptical of Trump to begin with, starts 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:01.840 pointing out potential problems with that headline, the main one 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:06.600 being that vaccines typically take years to develop. I have 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:10.640 no idea how somebody is proposing a shortening of the length. 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.480 It's length of time it's going to take to test 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.720 this whatever new vaccine there is out there for both 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:21.360 effectiveness and safety. I'm concerned about the safety and the efficacy. 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:25.280 These are the two criteria that are a crucial in 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:29.760 a vaccine. Vaccine advocates and scientists appear on the news 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:33.239 and say they're worried steps in development are being skipped. 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:37.240 In other words, they're putting this idea in people's heads 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:44.280 that this vaccine is rushed and potentially unsafe safe, which 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:50.880 is okay. Bear development time on these new vaccines was unprecedented, 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:54.760 But this all plays right into an argument that anti 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:59.880 vaccine movement was already making For years. This movement has 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.400 argued that safety issues with vaccines are too often ignored 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:08.520 by manufacturers and government regulators were all in cahoots together, 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:12.480 and here was the press and scientists pointing to what 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:16.800 seemed like an example of this. This messaging had a 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:22.400 real effect on people. For example, when vice presidential candidate 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:27.280 Kamala Harris said during her debate, if the doctors tell 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:28.680 us that we should take it, I'll be the first 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.120 in line to take it absolutely. But if Donald Trump 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:32.560 tells us I should take that we should take it, 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:36.560 I'm not taking it. Support for vaccines among Democrats dropped. 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:51.160 Vaccines just became highly politicized at different points, People on 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:54.000 both sides of the aisle were basically working in favor 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:58.599 of the anti vaccine movement, spreading messages of uncertainty, malfeasance, 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:02.840 and fear. At a low point last September, in the 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:07.120 run up to the election, about half of Americans said 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:10.920 they wouldn't get vaccinated against COVID. This gave groups like 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:14.400 Kennedy's a broader audience, and they took advantage of it. 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.000 A report by the Center for Countering Digital Hate or 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:21.440 c c d H says that roughly a hundred and 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:26.160 fifty leading anti vax accounts gained more than ten million 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:34.439 social media followers between and December, especially on Instagram and YouTube. 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:38.960 Those and other channels have taken some steps to curb misinformation, 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:43.480 including removing some of the movement's biggest names. Kennedy was 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:47.440 kicked off Instagram in February, but this hasn't really stopped 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:52.920 the broader community of vaccine skeptics from growing. Kennedy calls 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:57.640 this censorship in a statement after he was kicked off Instagram. 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:02.760 He writes, quote face book, the pharmaceutical industry and its 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:08.160 captive regulators used the term vaccine misinformation as a euphemism 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:12.760 for any factual assertion that departs from official pronouncements about 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:17.280 vaccine health and safety, whether true or not. End quote. 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:21.320 The c c d recently found that since December, while 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:24.559 the removal of celebrity anti vactors like Kennedy has caused 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:27.920 the movement to lose millions of followers, the growth of 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:31.040 the rest of the network has almost entirely made up 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:35.440 for that loss. They're just so many more groups of 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:40.679 people whose ideas now align with anti vaccine agenda, alternative 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.760 health purveyors, and Q and on conspiracy theories have joined in. 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:48.240 As of more and more people concerned about government overreach, 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:53.520 the states have implemented mask mandates and lockdowns. Kennedy says 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:57.079 bringing in these other interests has really helped the movement. 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:01.520 He doesn't use the term anti vaccine. He talks about 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:09.080 vaccine orthodoxy instead. I think people are saying confluences and 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:14.520 connections with other issues with government coersion. I'm with the 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:18.360 erosion of our constitutional rights and of our civil rights 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:21.000 who have come into the movement and people who are 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:25.440 concerned with other forms of government coerce. I think people 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:33.599 are feel like there's something happening that um, there's there 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:41.840 are strings being pulled by invisible hands. It turns out 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:45.319 so they're sort of our invisible hands pulling the strings, 0:13:46.000 --> 0:13:50.079 but those hands belonged to anti vaccine groups. The c 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:54.240 C d H says these groups have organized themselves around 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:59.800 a master COVID narrative. It's focused on three key messages. 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:05.600 COVID is not dangerous, the vaccine is dangerous, and vaccine 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:10.920 advocates cannot be trusted. It's a playbook for sewing doubt 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.760 and it has been used to great effect during the pandemic. 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:19.280 We've talked before about how times of uncertainty become fertile 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:25.280 ground for rumor and misinformation. Well, sometimes the public health 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.280 community couldn't provide us with all the answers when we 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.240 wanted them. They had to take time to study things 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:34.280 like masks and how far we distanced from one another. 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:39.520 They sometimes messed up the messaging and created more uncertainty 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:44.080 and confusion. And they can't say any vaccine is a 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:51.320 percent safe and effective. Science is just an inherently uncertain thing, 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:56.560 especially when you're dealing with a brand new virus. In science, 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:00.600 there are always going to be gray areas you can't 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:04.560 combat yours. People have about COVID vaccines being unsafe or 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:08.120 understudied by just saying, look, don't worry, these things are 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:13.800 a percent safe. But anti vaccine groups have the luxury 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:17.440 of dealing in black and white. COVID is not dangerous, 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:24.480 the vaccine is dangerous. Vaccine advocates cannot be trusted, simple right, 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:39.880 I mean, I always say, you try and disprove to 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.320 me that Bill Gates is a lizard, and there is 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:44.240 a conspiracy of lizards to cover up the fact that 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:47.360 he's a lizard. And it's impossible because these are non 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:50.840 falsifiable hypotheses in the jargon, but they're basically designed to 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:55.400 be difficult, if not impossible, to disprove. This is Imran Ahmed, 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.080 the head of the c c d H. He refers 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:04.320 to anti vaccine groups as a really sophisticated industry. They 0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:08.840 excel pushing ideas out there that are scary and hard 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:12.440 to disprove, but of course they also need to back 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:16.320 up their claims with something that looks like a convincing argument. 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:21.320 Unlike scientists, anti vaccine groups are perfectly willing to draw 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:25.320 conclusions where there aren't any yet. They create spaces online 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:29.440 in places like Facebook groups and Instagram stories that seem 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:33.120 to have every answer to your concerns. They make their 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:38.160 arguments seem scientific by using lots of hard to part terminology, 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:40.960 and then they offer training and education through social media 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:45.840 tools designed to convert the merely skeptical into active anti 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:51.880 vaxxer's spreading the message. One activist, for example, urged followers 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:55.720 to approach new people with easy to verify facts about vaccines, 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.280 like how many vaccines kids get before getting into the 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:03.720 more controversial stuff. The key one training module in a 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:07.560 popular anti vaxx group said, it's a plant that first 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:12.080 seed of doubt. Another activists wrote, quote, once we have 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:20.240 established some doubt about vaccines, we can move on end quote. 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:24.600 Groups even offer advice on how to not waste time 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:28.080 on people who are unpersuadable, how to spread the vaccine 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:31.400 debate into new groups of people, and how to end 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:36.600 arguments with pro vaccine people. They produced vast amounts of 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:40.159 content that's optimized for sharing and to do well on 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.760 the algorithms for social media platforms, and that's been key 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:46.800 to their success, of their ability to weaponize the algorithms 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:52.440 um and make the understand the dynamics, the specific dynamics 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:56.360 of algorithms that only care about one thing. Engagement, not factualness, 0:17:56.400 --> 0:18:01.000 not public good, just engagement. We've said up for but 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:05.400 it is worth repeating. This is not an organic rag 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:09.720 tag group of concerned citizens. It is a coordinated and 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:15.080 sophisticated campaign. It's pr their message is getting through. It's 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:19.240 the majority of people, and we we we shouldn't blame 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:24.560 the side of science for being overwhelmed by a very 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:29.120 well resourced industry of bad folks. Um. I do think 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:32.880 that we've been naivea societies in not understanding that there 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:41.439 is an organized opposition. This messaging feels especially relevant in 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.520 a climate where most people agree the government has bungled 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:49.600 many aspects of pandemic response. There are lots of good 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:53.560 reasons why these vaccines were able to be developed so quickly. 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:58.120 Scientists from around the world worked together with government support, 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:03.280 and technology was already in development for similar vaccines. But 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:07.560 that's a more complicated explanation than the one anti vaccine 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:11.280 groups are pushing. The anti vaxxers argue that politics and 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:15.960 profit are being put first, and that leading vaccine advocates 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:21.360 have hidden agendas. For example, billionaire Microsoft founder Bill Gates 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:25.720 has become a memified symbol of all this billionaire creator 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.480 of Microsoft, of person with a kind of face of 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:32.159 an eternal student with glasses. But what if Bill Gates 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:35.680 is actually not as simple as it seems, and now 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:38.040 that we are presented with the very problem that Gates 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:40.920 has been talking about for years, we will soon find 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:44.440 that this software developer with no medical training is going 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:47.679 to leverage that wealth into control over the fates of 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:52.320 billions of people. In anti vaxx propaganda. You'll even see 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:55.080 his names sometimes attached to things he has nothing to 0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:59.600 do with. And okay, some of the Bill Gates conspiracies 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:02.960 are pretty easy to roll your eyes at, like that 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:06.000 he's trying to sterilize the world through vaccines and control 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:10.320 the global population. This was literally the plot of a 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:13.879 TV series darring John Cusack last year. But for the 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:18.480 average person, a lot of misinformation isn't so easily debunked. 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:24.000 Organizations like Kennedy's are savvy. Often, the Children's Health Defense 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:28.480 will cite accurate information from news organizations or government agencies, 0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:32.040 but cherry pick and arrange those facts so that they 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:36.280 promote a false narrative. This is really clever because it 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:39.040 means that if you try to casually fact check those ideas, 0:20:39.560 --> 0:20:43.240 it might appear to confirm the misinformation with legitimate sources. 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:47.040 For example, they claim to participate in the trial for 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:51.720 the Maderna vaccine had become really sick after being vaccinated, 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:55.679 but they failed to mention he quickly recovered and has 0:20:55.720 --> 0:21:00.120 actually become a vocal advocate for the vaccine. There assembling 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:09.320 devastating information warfare from conventional ideas news articles, but when 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:12.320 put together in the right way they can be. They 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.120 can be incredibly persuasive and making people do harm for themselves, 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:17.720 which is what what not taking a vaccine is. And 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:25.280 then we live a pandemic. Okay, so this group of 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:31.280 people spreading vaccine misinformation is organized, well funded, and aided 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:35.280 by a global pandemic and finding an audience. But that 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.560 doesn't fully explain how it ends up convincing our relatives 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:41.920 or friends to not get vaccinated. It's not like people 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:46.280 just google anti vaccine content. Please. The way it ends 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:49.119 up in front of our mom or our dad is 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:53.879 more carefully choreographed than that. And how this happens is 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:57.840 no accident. So we believe that a lot of it 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:01.359 starts and WhatsApp or tell gram or this type of 0:22:02.080 --> 0:22:05.800 messaging services, and it's only then from those services it 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:08.480 is being pushed to Twitter, Facebook and other social media 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:12.240 or the digital media. This is Simon pon Tech. He 0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:16.400 monitors social media to see how misinformation spreads as part 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:20.320 of the Vaccine Confidence Project. In the first episode of Doubt, 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:24.160 we heard from Heidi Larson, the head of the organization. 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:28.639 Simon is the guy on the ground. My background is 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:32.680 in the study of misinformation, information, politics, and trying to 0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:36.840 understands pushing what narratives, why they might want to push 0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:41.560 these narratives. Simon says, misinformation often starts with private messaging 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:46.520 services and then is unwittingly shared by people who aren't 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:52.040 necessarily part of the orchestrated campaign. When we say misinformation 0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:56.840 here we're talking about conspiracy theories like Bill Gates trying 0:22:56.840 --> 0:23:02.399 to use vaccines to sterilize people, or vaccines altering your DNA. 0:23:02.640 --> 0:23:06.639 This is stuff intended to cause confusion. One hiccup for 0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:10.240 Simon because that he knows where these messages first gained traction, 0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:14.760 but it's hard to figure out their exact origins or 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:19.560 who's crafting them. So it's basically sometimes we just get 0:23:20.040 --> 0:23:23.720 a new narratives that's just come out of the blue, 0:23:24.359 --> 0:23:29.280 and they just suddenly become really popular. And so, for example, 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:34.320 more recently, we were seeing that someone is pushing in 0:23:34.480 --> 0:23:39.760 narative about COVID ending the civilization. The Vaccine Confidence Project 0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:43.600 is working to set up experimental listening tools to try 0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:48.720 and understand how misinformation travels between private and public social networks. 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:52.239 The hope is to set up what is essentially an 0:23:52.240 --> 0:23:57.359 early warning system to limit the spread, stopping misinformation before 0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:02.000 it has a chance to go viral. Like Kennedy, Simon 0:24:02.080 --> 0:24:04.480 points out that all kinds of groups are now jumping 0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:08.560 into the vaccine fight. For example, um, these would be 0:24:08.640 --> 0:24:13.560 people who believe in natural medicine, so they usually motivated 0:24:13.880 --> 0:24:19.400 by very strong belief that vaccines are not natural. And 0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:22.960 it's not just vaccines that they don't trust. It's GMO 0:24:23.240 --> 0:24:28.000 and and and any other modern technologies, and they very 0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:31.760 strongly believe that is it's a kind of not natural 0:24:31.920 --> 0:24:34.120 thing and we should avoid it as much as possible. 0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:38.919 When these groups rebrand anti vaccine information, it can become 0:24:38.960 --> 0:24:42.240 part of their platform. If you're a politician and your 0:24:42.240 --> 0:24:45.800 basis suddenly saying vaccination is an assault on their freedoms, 0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:48.679 well then it's likely you're going to start pushing that 0:24:48.720 --> 0:24:52.199 idea too, in order to stay in your voters good graces. 0:24:53.080 --> 0:24:57.280 It's now not just healthy issue. It is a very 0:24:57.320 --> 0:25:00.879 political issue. So we we kind of going out of 0:25:00.920 --> 0:25:03.840 this space where you would only have you know, two 0:25:03.920 --> 0:25:07.200 or three players. Now it's more complex, and obviously people 0:25:07.200 --> 0:25:09.959 trying to make money on it, but then people who 0:25:09.960 --> 0:25:13.159 are trying to gain political capital here as well. There 0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:15.600 are lots of different reasons why people would want to 0:25:15.600 --> 0:25:18.919 put misinformation out there. It can be used to score 0:25:19.000 --> 0:25:23.960 political points or sell things like vaccine information classes or 0:25:24.200 --> 0:25:29.000 bogus COVID treatments. Often it has little to do with 0:25:29.160 --> 0:25:35.639 actual concern about vaccines. Sometimes people weaponize misinformation simply in 0:25:35.760 --> 0:25:41.640 order to cause division. Genuinely, they're trying to polarize populations. 0:25:41.920 --> 0:25:44.720 So there is no common ground, there's no shared values, 0:25:45.160 --> 0:25:48.400 and people are unable to come to any sort of agreement, 0:25:49.080 --> 0:25:52.480 and that is a big problem. Simon says that misinformation 0:25:52.520 --> 0:25:56.520 campaigns are nothing new, but there's a reason why your 0:25:56.600 --> 0:26:00.680 friend or family member suddenly spouting conspiracy the areas when 0:26:00.880 --> 0:26:03.879 that was something they were never in due before. A 0:26:04.000 --> 0:26:06.680 lot of people are asking questions about the moment we're 0:26:06.680 --> 0:26:11.160 living in, and anti vaxers are just better at giving 0:26:11.160 --> 0:26:15.120 them answers. Are we're doing a terrible job with engaging 0:26:15.240 --> 0:26:18.919 with hesitant audiences. We we just, like, I think, the 0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:22.080 minute that people express any doubt, we just put them 0:26:22.080 --> 0:26:24.320 into this bucket. All right, you must be anti vactor 0:26:25.119 --> 0:26:27.280 and and that is kind of like a stigma and 0:26:27.280 --> 0:26:30.639 people hate it. We need to say, hey, right, it's fine, 0:26:30.800 --> 0:26:33.479 it's fine. You have some doubts like I'll help you 0:26:33.880 --> 0:26:36.639 exactly the same way the antivactors are doing. That's what 0:26:36.680 --> 0:26:39.320 they're doing. Come here to join us. Will will explain 0:26:39.359 --> 0:26:41.320 this all to you. You will get a full understanding. 0:26:41.400 --> 0:26:43.280 I don't think we're doing that. I think what we're 0:26:43.280 --> 0:26:45.680 doing is not good enough, and that that's that's that's 0:26:45.720 --> 0:26:50.919 the essence of the problem. Kennedy agrees. He says the 0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:54.480 real reason people are coming to him for answers is 0:26:54.480 --> 0:26:58.000 that they feel their concerns just are being addressed anywhere else. 0:26:59.280 --> 0:27:02.600 You know, just an extent, anybody who asked me about 0:27:02.720 --> 0:27:09.200 vaccines has already about what aga of vaccines is already 0:27:11.119 --> 0:27:15.200 kind of laws, some faith in you know, the traditional 0:27:15.400 --> 0:27:19.600 structure of um. You should trust your doctor, or you 0:27:19.600 --> 0:27:21.879 should trust A D S D. You should trust F 0:27:22.040 --> 0:27:26.720 D A and and you should not think for yourself. 0:27:33.280 --> 0:27:37.320 This is the thing that really gets to me. There 0:27:37.520 --> 0:27:40.600 is an opportunity to address the concerns of the people 0:27:40.640 --> 0:27:43.159 in the middle, But the camp that is doing it 0:27:43.240 --> 0:27:48.840 best is the anti vaxers. Anti vaccine misinformation campaigns are 0:27:49.160 --> 0:27:53.439 definitely sophisticated, and social media has enabled them to reach 0:27:53.520 --> 0:27:57.679 a lot of people in a highly targeted, effective and 0:27:57.760 --> 0:28:02.359 inexpensive way. But people who believe all of this misinformation, 0:28:03.119 --> 0:28:05.560 they're more open to it because they're not getting what 0:28:05.600 --> 0:28:10.199 they need from other sources. For people like Kennedy, that 0:28:10.320 --> 0:28:17.520 makes it a lot easier to win them over. So 0:28:17.560 --> 0:28:20.320 now that we've covered how this misinformation gets out there, 0:28:20.800 --> 0:28:25.480 we're going to discuss why people believe it. Matt Moda 0:28:25.600 --> 0:28:29.439 is a professor at Oklahoma State University who studies this 0:28:29.520 --> 0:28:33.520 exact thing. He says, there are two types of people 0:28:33.560 --> 0:28:37.679 who come to believe misinformation. The first group are people 0:28:37.720 --> 0:28:42.040 who have basically already decided misinformation is true. They are 0:28:42.120 --> 0:28:47.080 instead rationalizing their first arriving at the conclusion at which 0:28:47.120 --> 0:28:50.560 they want to arrive, and then finding evidence that backs 0:28:50.600 --> 0:28:56.640 it up. But that's thankfully a relatively small group of people. However, 0:28:57.360 --> 0:29:01.240 they have a big public reach in heart because of 0:29:01.320 --> 0:29:05.479 social media. And then there's a second group, and that 0:29:05.560 --> 0:29:10.160 one is way bigger. These people come across misinformation, often 0:29:10.160 --> 0:29:13.400