WEBVTT - Praying with Ben Abraham 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.720 Growing up in the church. Did you ever see an exorcism? Like? 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:22.919 Was it? Yeah? You did. Welcome to Kesha and the 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:27.240 Creepies today. Is one of my best friends and a 0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:35.560 very special guest. Ben Abraham, singer, songwriter, artist extraordinaire. I'll 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:38.239 take it whatever the script, as you've got one of 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:43.120 my favorite singers and songwriters, one of my top top favorites. 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:46.159 That's well, that's very cold. You have great taste. So 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:53.280 I received that as high praise. I remember when you 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:55.920 sent me a video not that long ago of you 0:00:56.040 --> 0:01:00.720 singing Praying and I was like, damn it, Ben, you 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:05.760 can't sing my song that we wrote together better than me. 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:10.880 I'm about like a four. Nobody sings it better than you. 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:16.039 Just so we're clear, No, not true. It's on my 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.679 Instagram if anybody wants to see it. Oh, thank you. 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.360 That's very that's very conn I mean that. What an 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:26.640 amazing experience that was. I know. So we met. For 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:30.200 those listening who don't know our backstory, we met because 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:34.600 we wrote Praying together with Ryan Lewis, and that turned 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:38.399 into like probably the most important song of my life 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:43.120 and a very pivotal moment for me. And from what 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.160 you've told me it was a cool moment for your 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:50.560 life too. It's just like a yeah, I mean life changing, 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:54.240 life changing, same super life changing for me. And then 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:59.200 you performed at the Grammys with me, which was isn't 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:03.880 that what three years ago? Like last week? Oh my god? 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:11.840 That feels like I've done a lot of dumb, crazy, wild, 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:15.840 insane ship That was definitely, I think the scariest thing 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:19.120 I've ever done in my life. I get that. Yeah, 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:21.440 it's funny that grab I I feel really lucky that 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:25.120 I had that experience, um, because I guess as a musician, 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:28.200 we all there's some part of our brains. Even if 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.880 you're like who cares about awards and all that stuff, 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.119 there's still some part of your brain that's like, that's 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:36.040 a goal in your career. I feel really lucky that 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:39.320 I was first exposed to it kind of in secret 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:43.120 and in hiding through you, because it really dispelled it 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:46.040 for me, Like it was walking in you have all 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:48.720 these expectations, and I remember there being a moment before 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:50.600 it even started where I was standing. I remember you 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:53.920 were in that dressing room upstairs, and I'd come to 0:02:53.960 --> 0:02:55.480 say hi to you, and then I walked out into 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.760 your balcony and looked over the the space and I 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:02.080 was like, Oh, it's like it's a show in a 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:07.040 big arena and it's fun. And it's not that it's 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:10.560 not everything. This is not like what all music is about. 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:12.480 It was something kind of I feel lucky that I 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:14.800 was exposed to it then, so that you know, if 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:16.800 I'm ever lucky enough to go back there with my 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:20.200 own work, I feel like I've already gone through the 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:25.640 feeling of it once before. Yeah, like intense kind of 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:30.240 build up. It's like a mythical thing. It's like seeing 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:34.240 the Lockness monster or something. And then once you're like 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:38.440 up there in it, you're like, oh, okay, well it's 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:40.760 just like something like you see it's like it's not 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:43.240 really a monster. It's just like two old dudes with 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:49.920 like a stick in a broom and like, yes, but 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:55.720 we've all agreed that, like it's really important and that's great. Yeah, 0:03:55.840 --> 0:04:00.760 people love I believe people love ritual Like yeah, marriage 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:07.600 or baptism or Christmas, whatever it is. We like reasons 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:12.160 to celebrate. I have like this very weird thing where 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:19.840 art isn't a competition, but then but then it is 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:21.840 because there's number one, and then there's number two and 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.159 you come at number two and you're bummed it's not 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:26.560 number one instead of being like, holy ship, my song 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:30.920 number two. So it's sod when it gets rank, like 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:34.479 like it's it's the idea of it being a race. Yeah, 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:40.559 it's like competition. You feel this, like how do you compare? 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:43.560 Like some of my favorite musicians in Melbourne, where I'm 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:46.040 from and where I am at the moment, are like 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:50.640 weird ass noise artists who like can stand on a 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:57.039 stage and create these really challenging, crazy noise scapes soundscapes 0:04:57.440 --> 0:04:59.800 and they're so inspiring. And then I can take that 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:03.359 and as filter it through my lens and maybe incorporate 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:05.440 some of that noise into a song that might become 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:07.760 a big pop song. How do you say that one 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:09.960 is more important than the other, especially if one kind 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:13.200 of inspired the other thing. And it's crazy that we 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:16.480 live in a world that makes forces us to compete 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:20.080 with each other and like rank. So I'm like a 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:25.599 big fan of not competing anymore. Like I've decided for 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.240 better for worse, this could be the end of my career, 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:33.400 but I'm not going to compete with anybody anymore. I 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:37.600 just it's so exhausting. It is so exhausting, so much 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:41.359 energy put into something that isn't even like we created it. 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:44.719 It's not really real. Like I had that same moment 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.600 at the Grammy's when you were there, and I just 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:52.280 couldn't stop crying hysterically because I was so nervous, and 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:56.239 I would like look out and Elton John's like walking 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:58.960 down the hallway and I was like, what is life? 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.080 This is so weird. And then you just get out 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:03.880 on the stage and you play a song just like 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:05.720 you'd get out on stage and play a song at 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:09.160 like a radio show or any other place like at 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.479 the coffee shop, and you realize it's like, wow, it's 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.960 like this whole big thing that we constructed to make 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:20.840 a big ordeal about art, and you realize that you 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:25.240 look back, I don't know who won Best. I don't 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.000 I don't know if I remember a lot of the awards. 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:30.680 I mean I remember who beat us? Yeah, yeah, we 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:35.720 do edge her in. No. It was weird and it 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.720 was scary, and I can't really say it was fun 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:40.159 because I felt like I was going to ship my 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.719 pants and I was wearing a white suit and it 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:46.480 was quite a time that we lived through together, and 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:49.640 we did it and we lived it and and it 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:53.640 was it's in immortal moment now. But I didn't realize 0:06:53.640 --> 0:06:57.800 that you were raised religious Pentecostal because I was raised 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:02.240 like Catholic school and then like would just go to 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.560 like the super churches and I was just trying to 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:06.520 figure out which one fit and like none of the 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:09.000 none of them fit just right. And I was so 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.160 mad about it. But I didn't know you had a 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:15.400 religious a bringing to And then now knowing that, when 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:17.920 I listened to your music again, I'm like, oh I 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:21.240 hear that. I hear like that like a little gospel 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.840 element or just I hear the church in it. Yeah, 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:29.640 I like that. I had no idea. I mean, faith 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:34.200 is such a especially right now, it's such a hectic 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:38.880 time to to be affiliated with any of that stuff 0:07:38.920 --> 0:07:41.000 and to and to even talk about it. There are 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:44.520 so many people get so angry about this subject. And 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:48.280 I feel like I was raised so like my parents 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:54.040 are ministers, they still are ministers, and the Pentecostal yes, 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:57.880 but that also means something so different in Australia to America, 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.480 like the Pentecostal church in America as I'm sort of 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:04.920 learning is like snake handlers and like, yeah, it includes 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:10.960 this kind of storm the capitol, bring your guns fundamentalist part. Uh, 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:16.520 that doesn't that doesn't happen in Australia as much. Um 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.680 So it's I feel nervous even kind of saying that 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:21.280 I kind of have grown up in that because my 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:25.320 parents are also like really smart, thoughtful, beautiful people who 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.760 weren't raised Christians. They both have like radical conversions, and 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:31.680 um so I was, and they're both musicians, so I 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:36.680 was raised in a sort of art infused spirituality. Certainly 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:42.400 music infused spirituality more than the like let's we're at 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.040 war with the world and we will conquer. Like it 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:47.960 wasn't that at all. It was like God is real 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:52.319 and big and how can we possibly understand what any 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.880 of that means? And music is part of the search. 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:01.600 I love that. And I think that religion is a 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:09.080 scary topic, but Comma Slash and I think that it's 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:12.240 fun to talk about because they It's kind of why 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:15.000 I made the podcast is to just talk about like 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:20.440 what supernatural things or paranormal or just what are the 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:24.000 things that make that challenge your worldview? And for me, 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:28.160 that's been a mostly spiritual thing. So it's kind of 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:30.840 like a little sneaky way to get people to talk 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.360 about like why they think we're here, what happens after, 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:36.240 or like you know what I mean. So I think 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:41.520 just having a nice conversation with somebody about the universe, 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.960 Why should people get so angry about it? Yeah, well, 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:50.280 I think, yeah, I mean I often wonder if some 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:55.920 of it is typically religious people have detached from the 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:58.760 lived experience part of being a human and have just 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:02.240 invested everything into the ideas of how the world should 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.600 be rather than this. I think religion is most interesting 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.680 when there's like the ideals of like this is what 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:11.800 it could be, but then it collides with the reality 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.560 of this is what it is, and there's this weird 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:17.200 space between those. It's like a tug of war where 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:20.600 it's like, Okay, we're supposed to you know. If God 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:23.760 tells me that I can be happy and I'm not happy, 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:26.760 there's not something wrong with me. It's just I have 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:28.920 to live in the middle of this tug of war 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:32.200 between these ideas, and to me, that's interesting. And I 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:34.520 think that what we're seeing at the moment is this 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:38.959 like rabid fundamentalist, these people that refuse to acknowledge how 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:41.640 life is and they're just like we all need to 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:44.520 live according to the way that this could be and 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.040 should be. But it's like the world is falling apart 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:50.319 in front of me, and there's some things that are 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:52.880 just unprecedented. I mean not in history, of course, there's 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:56.480 been pandemics before, but in my lifetime, our lifetime, I've 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:58.640 never seen anything like this. I never knew to expect 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:00.760 it and never new to prepare for it. It It wasn't 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.560 really on my radar. I was just trucking along doing 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:06.880 my thing. So to have like a full stop and 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:11.199 be able to take in everything that's going on, yeah, 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:16.840 for me, has been like very life changing, really spiritual, 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:22.520 and I'm seeing that the more open we are with 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:28.520 our humanity and maybe like I know me for sure, 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.400 Like TikTok came out when I was twenty one or 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:34.440 twenty two, Like I've done some dumb ship and it's 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:38.280 on camera, and I am aware that it was dumb. 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:42.800 I am sorry, I am embarrassed. I wish it was 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:48.120 not on camera. But that being said, you can also 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:52.400 like I'm a human was a young little idiots. I 0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:54.559 think this is like this even ties in a bit 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:58.560 with what we're saying, Like there's there's you're saying this 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.160 now with this idea of like what life should be 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.320 and reflecting on things that you've done that maybe we're 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.360 not in line with what it could be, but that's 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.360 part of the human experience, and I think it could 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.640 be one of the things that we celebrate. I mean, 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:14.400 obviously I don't want to wait into this too far 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:16.839 because this is a fraud conversation, but I think it's 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:19.160 okay to look back and be like, I did some 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:23.760 really dumb stuff and now I've changed and I've grown, 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.200 and it's I'm kind of cool to have documented that. 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:31.920 Why Now, that's the thing you have to be able 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:35.560 to grow and learn from your experiences versus for me, 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.800 I just see people getting canceled, and I'm like, but 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:42.680 this is a great opportunity to like grow and change. 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:46.480 I mean, that's more beneficial than having someone live in 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:48.520 shame and guilt for the rest of their life. Like 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:54.040 what about exactly you acknowledge, you understand, you learn, you apologize, 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.640 you mean it, and you act different and I see 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:00.720 you learning and growing and trying. That's why it's always 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:02.520 so important for me. It's not like I ever think 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:07.440 I'm going to change anybody else's mind, like even on 0:13:07.520 --> 0:13:09.920 this or through my songs. No, I'm not gonna change 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:13.320 anybody's mind. But i'd like to, like, I like to 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.280 try to have you see something from a different perspective. 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.640 And this is my perspective. So try it on. If 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:25.200 you don't like it, throw in the trash. But I 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.240 don't even know what the point of all of this was, 0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:30.319 to be honest, I forget what the I'm supposed to 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:32.959 be interviewing you, and I don't remember what the question was. 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:35.720 It was something about the Pentecostal Church. Oh, like, what 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:37.720 does it mean? Because you were saying it's really different 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:41.080 in Australia. So it's just like is here in the 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:43.480 South it's like a little more extreme. So give me 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.040 your VERNI okay, I'll give you the This is the 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:50.120 theological um. This is very funny that I'm talking with 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:53.520 Kesh about this. So I love this. We can you 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:57.320 also don't have to you can also, I So just 0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:59.120 so you know, I have no problem talking about this 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:01.079 stuff because I and we can get into this. I 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:03.280 really am at a point in my life where I 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.280 moved between being like, yeah, I think I believe this 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:09.840 and then being like, actually, nothing is real. The universe 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.160 is completely material. When we die, we die, and you know, 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:18.160 so I sort of I'm comfortable moving between us. So basically, 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:22.240 the difference between the Pentecostal Church and say, the more 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:26.320 broad church, beside the kind of branding of Pentecostalism, is 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:29.240 that the story goes that when Jesus came to Earth, 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:31.440 he told all these great stories and kind of started 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:33.920 a community of people that he was like, when I'm gone, 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:37.640 you can keep going. And then he died and then 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:40.760 went to Heaven, came back to life. When to Heaven, 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.000 it's the story. And then rather than just going and 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:45.480 starting the community straight away, a whole bunch of people 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:49.000 waited and then like, this is so funny that I'm 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:50.840 gett into this, but it will help you understand the 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.960 kind of spirituality culture that I've grown up in. The 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:57.480 concept of Pentecostalism is that they didn't just have the 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:00.920 stories about Jesus to tell, but like, really the spirit 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:03.560 of God came and it says that like there was 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:07.520 like fire among above their heads, and they spoken tongues 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:10.800 and all this kind of stuff. So Pentecostalism is supposed 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.640 to be this hyper spiritual version of Christianity, and then 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:17.520 over the centuries it's kind of waxed and wined, and 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:19.360 then you get some churches that have done away with 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:21.760 that stuff altogether, and I're like, we don't believe in 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:24.640 any kind of spiritual element. We just believe in the 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.680 like teachings of Jesus, and it's a bit more chill 0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.400 and just like community focused. So in theory, the Pentecostals 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:34.560 are the ones that are like clapping their hands and 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:38.800 like cut like doing exorcisms and seeing the kind of 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:47.840 crazy stuff. I'm like, really, here for the crazy stuff, 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:57.040 here for all the crazy stuff, Like hey, okay, the 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:04.360 Holy Spirit that feeling as I love that terminology for 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:06.200 it because I don't know about you, but if you've 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:09.040 ever like when I hit that high note when I 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:11.400 we were recording praying and I made everybody leave the room, 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:13.960 I just opened my mouth and that fell out. I 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.600 didn't know what she lived in there. I don't know 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:19.560 she existed, And in that moment, I was like, oh, damn, 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:24.680 that wasn't me. That was something or something else. I 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:29.240 absolutely believe. So like again, I stopped me if I 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.760 ever get to into this, but it's you know, I 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.440 think that some people would say that the holy spirit, 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:39.160 aspect of God is the creative energy, is the kind 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:42.960 of creative part of um of life. I don't know 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:46.800 if you remember. Elizabeth Gilbert, the author who wrote Eat, Pray, Love, 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:50.560 gave a Ted talk years ago. You've told me about this, 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:53.600 I haven't seen it, and she talks about the idea 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:59.880 of um of artists have we we impose the idea 0:16:59.920 --> 0:17:02.320 of genius on people, We say they are a genius, 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.160 that person is a genius. She said that that's quite 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:08.720 a contemporary idea that actually traditionally the concept was that 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.199 a person had a genius, which I think she even 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.159 described it. Some people wrote about it as if it 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:18.360 was like almost like um, like a demon that lived 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.040 in their house or something that fed them ideas, so 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.760 that rather than like you being the source of your genius, 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.520 some crazy mathematician just has these ideas implanted into their 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:32.200 brain from an outside source. And she talked about how 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:35.600 that is kind of liberating as artists because it takes 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.359 away the responsibility we have to wrestle with ourselves and 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:41.840 pull out ideas and actually instead of reaching in here, 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:47.120 we kind of reach up there looking for the ideas 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:49.439 to drop into us. And she talked about there's this poet. 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:51.640 I mean, people should just go and watch the talk, 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:54.920 but I loved um. When she talked to told the 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:58.560 story of some poet who described the process of writing 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:00.320 a poem. A poem where she was out in the 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.199 fields in her house in the country wherever she was, 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.680 and she could feel this poem like barreling toward her 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.560 over the plane and ran into the house as she 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.320 felt this wind of an idea passing through her, like 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:15.480 reached her hand up and grabbed it and pulled it 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:18.480 back to earth, writing the poem, pulled it backwards, grabbed 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.560 the tail, pulled it backwards and wrote the poem in reverse. 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:25.600 Because this passed through her, and to me, like, that's 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:29.160 the if there is a holy spirit, that's the function 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:32.040 of that, and that is why every it doesn't happen 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:33.720 all the time. But you would have experienced this, and 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.960 you've just said that you have. Sometimes you're performing or 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.240 creating or writing and there's such a flow and such 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:43.920 a thing that comes on you that you're like, that 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:47.240 wasn't me, Like it was me, but something like a 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.719 wind came through me and it was like a possession. 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:53.639 I feel like when you just told that story, I 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.560 have to tell you, I had chills from like the 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.320 top of my head, down my neck and down my 0:18:59.440 --> 0:19:02.960 legs and arms. And that's I've never said this out 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:04.359 loud to anybody, so let me just tell it to 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:09.240 the whole world. Um, that's my secret for me and 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:11.880 my higher consciousness or whatever you wanna call it. That's 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:14.679 my secret. Tell I'm like, okay, when something is like 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:19.239 really just true, just give me full body chills and 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:21.199 then I'll know it's like for real true. So when 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:23.480 you were saying that I got my I got my 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:29.400 little I grew up being taught. This is why, like 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:33.000 artists are so sensitive as people, because we're vessels were 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.560 supposed to be filled with something for it to pour 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.440 out of us. That's why we're so susceptible to substance 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:42.600 abuse and different addictions because we have the capacity to 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:47.840 hold so much of that creative energy. I just feel 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:50.400 everything all the time, and I feel like, I mean, 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:54.479 you tell me, but I just feel like I notice 0:19:54.560 --> 0:19:58.159 every little tiny thing to the point where it's like 0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:03.600 I'm so annoyed with my like it's like, just stop 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:07.760 noticing everything. But I think that's almost like because I 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.160 sometimes think I'm being psychic, but I think I'm just 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:15.199 like uber perceptive everything. But I mean that's isn't that 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:18.080 part of That's part of it as well? Like as 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:22.280 as creatives we are, I feel like it's the I 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:24.359 don't know if this has been your experience I find 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:31.560 as an artist, I'm forced into this weird outsider's perspective 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:36.639 on every moment of my life. I think of it like, um, 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:38.639 like if you have a photo, if you take a 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:41.480 like a photo of a party, there's the people in 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:44.320 the photo enjoying the party, but the person that took 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:47.920 the photo had to be outside the moment to capture that. 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:51.040 And I feel like as artists sometimes were kind of 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:54.119 forced to both be at the party and having a 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:55.920 great time, but there's this other part of our brain 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:59.080 that's constantly observing everything. It's like you're saying, it's heightened 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:02.360 awareness all the time. But I think that's the stuff 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:06.960 that's what qualifies us for those moments, For that we 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:10.639 have this space in our brains that when we need 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:13.440 it and when we're called upon to become the vessel. 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:16.359 We just it gets filled with that stuff. And you know, 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:19.080 I mean, I chase those moments in my life, like 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.280 you were saying high notes where you're just you get 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:24.960 to the end and it's the best. It's like a 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:28.280 high because you're like, I don't know how that happened. 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:30.920 I don't know what just came over, but that's where 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:33.960 my self confidence comes from. I'm like that one time 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:38.040 six years ago, I opened my mouth and saying that 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:44.160 one note. But like they're just like little tiny moments 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:46.400 like that that happened like not very often for me. 0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:49.639 It feels like you're being struck by lightning. I feel 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:53.000 like your genius probably is more active. Mine has been 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:57.160 dormant and depressed lately, but I'm trying to trying to 0:21:57.240 --> 0:21:59.760 give her some Remember when you hit the high note, Okay, 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:03.960 we got this, But like it's moments like that that 0:22:04.000 --> 0:22:07.280 are like they made me proud to be myself, just 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:11.560 when you impress yourself. And I don't know, it's just 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:14.800 really weird. Like this past year, I just have been 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:19.000 like feeling that like Holy Spirit. I didn't know that 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:22.360 was a Pentecostal thing, but I've been feeling that spirit 0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:27.040 come and go more often, but you can't ever, you 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:29.720 can't summon it. It comes to you. It's like a cat. 0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:38.040 But like when we're writing, Okay, we are writing in 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:42.679 my backyard, writing, you know, writing songs, and I was 0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:46.359 trying to lay the sex. I don't know, what do 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:49.200 you think I've got to say? No, no, no, no no. 0:22:52.760 --> 0:22:54.600 Is it just when you're standing on the side of 0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:56.880 the pool going like this with your eyes closing into 0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:04.159 the trees. It was my favorite thing. That was nothing. 0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:07.119 I mean, there was nothing religious going on there. I 0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:10.399 just every now, it doesn't happen every time. That was 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:16.240 so we were writing this song and I was so 0:23:16.600 --> 0:23:19.280 feeling it and so like I was really connecting with 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:22.520 because I sort of sometimes my approach. Not all songs 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:25.280 are like this, but some songs I feel like we're 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:27.399 finding them. I feel like I'm like so literally this 0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:30.119 is what I do. Like I almost feel like the 0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:33.680 song exists, and my job is to kind of close 0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:36.199 my eyes and eliminate other sources of information and like 0:23:36.359 --> 0:23:39.919 feel the song. Right. It's like the it's like the 0:23:39.960 --> 0:23:42.200 elephant in the room and or the six blind guys 0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:44.320 feeling the elephant and they're kind of trying to get 0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:47.240 the shape of it. I sometimes songs come to me 0:23:47.359 --> 0:23:51.600 like that, and I was in those moments. I so 0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:54.520 we were writing and I was pacing across your backyard, 0:23:55.560 --> 0:23:59.240 and I felt I felt like the song was there, 0:23:59.560 --> 0:24:02.840