1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Growing up in the church. Did you ever see an exorcism? Like? 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 1: Was it? Yeah? You did. Welcome to Kesha and the 3 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: Creepies today. Is one of my best friends and a 4 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: very special guest. Ben Abraham, singer, songwriter, artist extraordinaire. I'll 5 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: take it whatever the script, as you've got one of 6 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: my favorite singers and songwriters, one of my top top favorites. 7 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: That's well, that's very cold. You have great taste. So 8 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: I received that as high praise. I remember when you 9 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: sent me a video not that long ago of you 10 00:00:56,040 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 1: singing Praying and I was like, damn it, Ben, you 11 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: can't sing my song that we wrote together better than me. 12 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: I'm about like a four. Nobody sings it better than you. 13 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:16,039 Speaker 1: Just so we're clear, No, not true. It's on my 14 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: Instagram if anybody wants to see it. Oh, thank you. 15 00:01:19,760 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: That's very that's very conn I mean that. What an 16 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: amazing experience that was. I know. So we met. For 17 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: those listening who don't know our backstory, we met because 18 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: we wrote Praying together with Ryan Lewis, and that turned 19 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: into like probably the most important song of my life 20 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: and a very pivotal moment for me. And from what 21 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: you've told me it was a cool moment for your 22 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: life too. It's just like a yeah, I mean life changing, 23 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 1: life changing, same super life changing for me. And then 24 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: you performed at the Grammys with me, which was isn't 25 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: that what three years ago? Like last week? Oh my god? 26 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: That feels like I've done a lot of dumb, crazy, wild, 27 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: insane ship That was definitely, I think the scariest thing 28 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: I've ever done in my life. I get that. Yeah, 29 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: it's funny that grab I I feel really lucky that 30 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: I had that experience, um, because I guess as a musician, 31 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 1: we all there's some part of our brains. Even if 32 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: you're like who cares about awards and all that stuff, 33 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,119 Speaker 1: there's still some part of your brain that's like, that's 34 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: a goal in your career. I feel really lucky that 35 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: I was first exposed to it kind of in secret 36 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: and in hiding through you, because it really dispelled it 37 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: for me, Like it was walking in you have all 38 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: these expectations, and I remember there being a moment before 39 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: it even started where I was standing. I remember you 40 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: were in that dressing room upstairs, and I'd come to 41 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: say hi to you, and then I walked out into 42 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: your balcony and looked over the the space and I 43 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: was like, Oh, it's like it's a show in a 44 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: big arena and it's fun. And it's not that it's 45 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: not everything. This is not like what all music is about. 46 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: It was something kind of I feel lucky that I 47 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: was exposed to it then, so that you know, if 48 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: I'm ever lucky enough to go back there with my 49 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: own work, I feel like I've already gone through the 50 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 1: feeling of it once before. Yeah, like intense kind of 51 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: build up. It's like a mythical thing. It's like seeing 52 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: the Lockness monster or something. And then once you're like 53 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: up there in it, you're like, oh, okay, well it's 54 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: just like something like you see it's like it's not 55 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: really a monster. It's just like two old dudes with 56 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: like a stick in a broom and like, yes, but 57 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: we've all agreed that, like it's really important and that's great. Yeah, 58 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: people love I believe people love ritual Like yeah, marriage 59 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: or baptism or Christmas, whatever it is. We like reasons 60 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: to celebrate. I have like this very weird thing where 61 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 1: art isn't a competition, but then but then it is 62 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 1: because there's number one, and then there's number two and 63 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: you come at number two and you're bummed it's not 64 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: number one instead of being like, holy ship, my song 65 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: number two. So it's sod when it gets rank, like 66 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 1: like it's it's the idea of it being a race. Yeah, 67 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:40,559 Speaker 1: it's like competition. You feel this, like how do you compare? 68 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: Like some of my favorite musicians in Melbourne, where I'm 69 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 1: from and where I am at the moment, are like 70 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: weird ass noise artists who like can stand on a 71 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 1: stage and create these really challenging, crazy noise scapes soundscapes 72 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: and they're so inspiring. And then I can take that 73 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 1: and as filter it through my lens and maybe incorporate 74 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: some of that noise into a song that might become 75 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: a big pop song. How do you say that one 76 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: is more important than the other, especially if one kind 77 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: of inspired the other thing. And it's crazy that we 78 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: live in a world that makes forces us to compete 79 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: with each other and like rank. So I'm like a 80 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: big fan of not competing anymore. Like I've decided for 81 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: better for worse, this could be the end of my career, 82 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: but I'm not going to compete with anybody anymore. I 83 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 1: just it's so exhausting. It is so exhausting, so much 84 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:41,359 Speaker 1: energy put into something that isn't even like we created it. 85 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 1: It's not really real. Like I had that same moment 86 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 1: at the Grammy's when you were there, and I just 87 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 1: couldn't stop crying hysterically because I was so nervous, and 88 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:56,239 Speaker 1: I would like look out and Elton John's like walking 89 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: down the hallway and I was like, what is life? 90 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: This is so weird. And then you just get out 91 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: on the stage and you play a song just like 92 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 1: you'd get out on stage and play a song at 93 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: like a radio show or any other place like at 94 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 1: the coffee shop, and you realize it's like, wow, it's 95 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: like this whole big thing that we constructed to make 96 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 1: a big ordeal about art, and you realize that you 97 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: look back, I don't know who won Best. I don't 98 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: I don't know if I remember a lot of the awards. 99 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: I mean I remember who beat us? Yeah, yeah, we 100 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: do edge her in. No. It was weird and it 101 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 1: was scary, and I can't really say it was fun 102 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: because I felt like I was going to ship my 103 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: pants and I was wearing a white suit and it 104 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: was quite a time that we lived through together, and 105 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: we did it and we lived it and and it 106 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: was it's in immortal moment now. But I didn't realize 107 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: that you were raised religious Pentecostal because I was raised 108 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: like Catholic school and then like would just go to 109 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: like the super churches and I was just trying to 110 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: figure out which one fit and like none of the 111 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: none of them fit just right. And I was so 112 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: mad about it. But I didn't know you had a 113 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: religious a bringing to And then now knowing that, when 114 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: I listened to your music again, I'm like, oh I 115 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 1: hear that. I hear like that like a little gospel 116 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: element or just I hear the church in it. Yeah, 117 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: I like that. I had no idea. I mean, faith 118 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: is such a especially right now, it's such a hectic 119 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: time to to be affiliated with any of that stuff 120 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: and to and to even talk about it. There are 121 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: so many people get so angry about this subject. And 122 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: I feel like I was raised so like my parents 123 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: are ministers, they still are ministers, and the Pentecostal yes, 124 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: but that also means something so different in Australia to America, 125 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 1: like the Pentecostal church in America as I'm sort of 126 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: learning is like snake handlers and like, yeah, it includes 127 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: this kind of storm the capitol, bring your guns fundamentalist part. Uh, 128 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: that doesn't that doesn't happen in Australia as much. Um 129 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: So it's I feel nervous even kind of saying that 130 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: I kind of have grown up in that because my 131 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: parents are also like really smart, thoughtful, beautiful people who 132 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: weren't raised Christians. They both have like radical conversions, and 133 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: um so I was, and they're both musicians, so I 134 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: was raised in a sort of art infused spirituality. Certainly 135 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: music infused spirituality more than the like let's we're at 136 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: war with the world and we will conquer. Like it 137 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: wasn't that at all. It was like God is real 138 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 1: and big and how can we possibly understand what any 139 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: of that means? And music is part of the search. 140 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: I love that. And I think that religion is a 141 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: scary topic, but Comma Slash and I think that it's 142 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: fun to talk about because they It's kind of why 143 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: I made the podcast is to just talk about like 144 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: what supernatural things or paranormal or just what are the 145 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: things that make that challenge your worldview? And for me, 146 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: that's been a mostly spiritual thing. So it's kind of 147 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: like a little sneaky way to get people to talk 148 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: about like why they think we're here, what happens after, 149 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: or like you know what I mean. So I think 150 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: just having a nice conversation with somebody about the universe, 151 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,960 Speaker 1: Why should people get so angry about it? Yeah, well, 152 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I mean I often wonder if some 153 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: of it is typically religious people have detached from the 154 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: lived experience part of being a human and have just 155 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: invested everything into the ideas of how the world should 156 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: be rather than this. I think religion is most interesting 157 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: when there's like the ideals of like this is what 158 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: it could be, but then it collides with the reality 159 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: of this is what it is, and there's this weird 160 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: space between those. It's like a tug of war where 161 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, we're supposed to you know. If God 162 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: tells me that I can be happy and I'm not happy, 163 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: there's not something wrong with me. It's just I have 164 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: to live in the middle of this tug of war 165 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,200 Speaker 1: between these ideas, and to me, that's interesting. And I 166 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: think that what we're seeing at the moment is this 167 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: like rabid fundamentalist, these people that refuse to acknowledge how 168 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: life is and they're just like we all need to 169 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: live according to the way that this could be and 170 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: should be. But it's like the world is falling apart 171 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 1: in front of me, and there's some things that are 172 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: just unprecedented. I mean not in history, of course, there's 173 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: been pandemics before, but in my lifetime, our lifetime, I've 174 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:58,640 Speaker 1: never seen anything like this. I never knew to expect 175 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: it and never new to prepare for it. It It wasn't 176 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: really on my radar. I was just trucking along doing 177 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: my thing. So to have like a full stop and 178 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 1: be able to take in everything that's going on, yeah, 179 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: for me, has been like very life changing, really spiritual, 180 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: and I'm seeing that the more open we are with 181 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: our humanity and maybe like I know me for sure, 182 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: Like TikTok came out when I was twenty one or 183 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: twenty two, Like I've done some dumb ship and it's 184 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: on camera, and I am aware that it was dumb. 185 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: I am sorry, I am embarrassed. I wish it was 186 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: not on camera. But that being said, you can also 187 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: like I'm a human was a young little idiots. I 188 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 1: think this is like this even ties in a bit 189 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: with what we're saying, Like there's there's you're saying this 190 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: now with this idea of like what life should be 191 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: and reflecting on things that you've done that maybe we're 192 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: not in line with what it could be, but that's 193 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: part of the human experience, and I think it could 194 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: be one of the things that we celebrate. I mean, 195 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: obviously I don't want to wait into this too far 196 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,839 Speaker 1: because this is a fraud conversation, but I think it's 197 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: okay to look back and be like, I did some 198 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: really dumb stuff and now I've changed and I've grown, 199 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: and it's I'm kind of cool to have documented that. 200 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: Why Now, that's the thing you have to be able 201 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 1: to grow and learn from your experiences versus for me, 202 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: I just see people getting canceled, and I'm like, but 203 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 1: this is a great opportunity to like grow and change. 204 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: I mean, that's more beneficial than having someone live in 205 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: shame and guilt for the rest of their life. Like 206 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: what about exactly you acknowledge, you understand, you learn, you apologize, 207 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: you mean it, and you act different and I see 208 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: you learning and growing and trying. That's why it's always 209 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: so important for me. It's not like I ever think 210 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: I'm going to change anybody else's mind, like even on 211 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: this or through my songs. No, I'm not gonna change 212 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: anybody's mind. But i'd like to, like, I like to 213 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 1: try to have you see something from a different perspective. 214 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: And this is my perspective. So try it on. If 215 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: you don't like it, throw in the trash. But I 216 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: don't even know what the point of all of this was, 217 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 1: to be honest, I forget what the I'm supposed to 218 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,959 Speaker 1: be interviewing you, and I don't remember what the question was. 219 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: It was something about the Pentecostal Church. Oh, like, what 220 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: does it mean? Because you were saying it's really different 221 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: in Australia. So it's just like is here in the 222 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: South it's like a little more extreme. So give me 223 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: your VERNI okay, I'll give you the This is the 224 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: theological um. This is very funny that I'm talking with 225 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: Kesh about this. So I love this. We can you 226 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 1: also don't have to you can also, I So just 227 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: so you know, I have no problem talking about this 228 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 1: stuff because I and we can get into this. I 229 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 1: really am at a point in my life where I 230 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: moved between being like, yeah, I think I believe this 231 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: and then being like, actually, nothing is real. The universe 232 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: is completely material. When we die, we die, and you know, 233 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: so I sort of I'm comfortable moving between us. So basically, 234 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: the difference between the Pentecostal Church and say, the more 235 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: broad church, beside the kind of branding of Pentecostalism, is 236 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: that the story goes that when Jesus came to Earth, 237 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: he told all these great stories and kind of started 238 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 1: a community of people that he was like, when I'm gone, 239 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: you can keep going. And then he died and then 240 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 1: went to Heaven, came back to life. When to Heaven, 241 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: it's the story. And then rather than just going and 242 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: starting the community straight away, a whole bunch of people 243 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: waited and then like, this is so funny that I'm 244 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: gett into this, but it will help you understand the 245 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: kind of spirituality culture that I've grown up in. The 246 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 1: concept of Pentecostalism is that they didn't just have the 247 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: stories about Jesus to tell, but like, really the spirit 248 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: of God came and it says that like there was 249 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: like fire among above their heads, and they spoken tongues 250 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: and all this kind of stuff. So Pentecostalism is supposed 251 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,640 Speaker 1: to be this hyper spiritual version of Christianity, and then 252 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: over the centuries it's kind of waxed and wined, and 253 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: then you get some churches that have done away with 254 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: that stuff altogether, and I're like, we don't believe in 255 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 1: any kind of spiritual element. We just believe in the 256 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: like teachings of Jesus, and it's a bit more chill 257 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: and just like community focused. So in theory, the Pentecostals 258 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: are the ones that are like clapping their hands and 259 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: like cut like doing exorcisms and seeing the kind of 260 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: crazy stuff. I'm like, really, here for the crazy stuff, 261 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: here for all the crazy stuff, Like hey, okay, the 262 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 1: Holy Spirit that feeling as I love that terminology for 263 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: it because I don't know about you, but if you've 264 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: ever like when I hit that high note when I 265 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: we were recording praying and I made everybody leave the room, 266 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: I just opened my mouth and that fell out. I 267 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: didn't know what she lived in there. I don't know 268 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: she existed, And in that moment, I was like, oh, damn, 269 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 1: that wasn't me. That was something or something else. I 270 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: absolutely believe. So like again, I stopped me if I 271 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: ever get to into this, but it's you know, I 272 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: think that some people would say that the holy spirit, 273 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: aspect of God is the creative energy, is the kind 274 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: of creative part of um of life. I don't know 275 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: if you remember. Elizabeth Gilbert, the author who wrote Eat, Pray, Love, 276 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: gave a Ted talk years ago. You've told me about this, 277 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: I haven't seen it, and she talks about the idea 278 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: of um of artists have we we impose the idea 279 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: of genius on people, We say they are a genius, 280 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: that person is a genius. She said that that's quite 281 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: a contemporary idea that actually traditionally the concept was that 282 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 1: a person had a genius, which I think she even 283 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,159 Speaker 1: described it. Some people wrote about it as if it 284 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 1: was like almost like um, like a demon that lived 285 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: in their house or something that fed them ideas, so 286 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: that rather than like you being the source of your genius, 287 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: some crazy mathematician just has these ideas implanted into their 288 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: brain from an outside source. And she talked about how 289 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: that is kind of liberating as artists because it takes 290 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: away the responsibility we have to wrestle with ourselves and 291 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: pull out ideas and actually instead of reaching in here, 292 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 1: we kind of reach up there looking for the ideas 293 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 1: to drop into us. And she talked about there's this poet. 294 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:51,640 Speaker 1: I mean, people should just go and watch the talk, 295 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,920 Speaker 1: but I loved um. When she talked to told the 296 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: story of some poet who described the process of writing 297 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: a poem. A poem where she was out in the 298 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: fields in her house in the country wherever she was, 299 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,680 Speaker 1: and she could feel this poem like barreling toward her 300 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: over the plane and ran into the house as she 301 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 1: felt this wind of an idea passing through her, like 302 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: reached her hand up and grabbed it and pulled it 303 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 1: back to earth, writing the poem, pulled it backwards, grabbed 304 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: the tail, pulled it backwards and wrote the poem in reverse. 305 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: Because this passed through her, and to me, like, that's 306 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 1: the if there is a holy spirit, that's the function 307 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: of that, and that is why every it doesn't happen 308 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: all the time. But you would have experienced this, and 309 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: you've just said that you have. Sometimes you're performing or 310 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: creating or writing and there's such a flow and such 311 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: a thing that comes on you that you're like, that 312 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: wasn't me, Like it was me, but something like a 313 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,719 Speaker 1: wind came through me and it was like a possession. 314 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 1: I feel like when you just told that story, I 315 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: have to tell you, I had chills from like the 316 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: top of my head, down my neck and down my 317 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: legs and arms. And that's I've never said this out 318 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: loud to anybody, so let me just tell it to 319 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: the whole world. Um, that's my secret for me and 320 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 1: my higher consciousness or whatever you wanna call it. That's 321 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 1: my secret. Tell I'm like, okay, when something is like 322 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:19,239 Speaker 1: really just true, just give me full body chills and 323 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,199 Speaker 1: then I'll know it's like for real true. So when 324 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 1: you were saying that I got my I got my 325 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:29,400 Speaker 1: little I grew up being taught. This is why, like 326 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: artists are so sensitive as people, because we're vessels were 327 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: supposed to be filled with something for it to pour 328 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: out of us. That's why we're so susceptible to substance 329 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: abuse and different addictions because we have the capacity to 330 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: hold so much of that creative energy. I just feel 331 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: everything all the time, and I feel like, I mean, 332 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,479 Speaker 1: you tell me, but I just feel like I notice 333 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: every little tiny thing to the point where it's like 334 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: I'm so annoyed with my like it's like, just stop 335 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: noticing everything. But I think that's almost like because I 336 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: sometimes think I'm being psychic, but I think I'm just 337 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:15,199 Speaker 1: like uber perceptive everything. But I mean that's isn't that 338 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: part of That's part of it as well? Like as 339 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: as creatives we are, I feel like it's the I 340 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: don't know if this has been your experience I find 341 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: as an artist, I'm forced into this weird outsider's perspective 342 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 1: on every moment of my life. I think of it like, um, 343 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 1: like if you have a photo, if you take a 344 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: like a photo of a party, there's the people in 345 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 1: the photo enjoying the party, but the person that took 346 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: the photo had to be outside the moment to capture that. 347 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: And I feel like as artists sometimes were kind of 348 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 1: forced to both be at the party and having a 349 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:55,920 Speaker 1: great time, but there's this other part of our brain 350 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: that's constantly observing everything. It's like you're saying, it's heightened 351 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 1: awareness all the time. But I think that's the stuff 352 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: that's what qualifies us for those moments, For that we 353 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: have this space in our brains that when we need 354 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 1: it and when we're called upon to become the vessel. 355 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: We just it gets filled with that stuff. And you know, 356 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I chase those moments in my life, like 357 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: you were saying high notes where you're just you get 358 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: to the end and it's the best. It's like a 359 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 1: high because you're like, I don't know how that happened. 360 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: I don't know what just came over, but that's where 361 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: my self confidence comes from. I'm like that one time 362 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: six years ago, I opened my mouth and saying that 363 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 1: one note. But like they're just like little tiny moments 364 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: like that that happened like not very often for me. 365 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: It feels like you're being struck by lightning. I feel 366 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 1: like your genius probably is more active. Mine has been 367 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 1: dormant and depressed lately, but I'm trying to trying to 368 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: give her some Remember when you hit the high note, Okay, 369 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: we got this, But like it's moments like that that 370 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: are like they made me proud to be myself, just 371 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,560 Speaker 1: when you impress yourself. And I don't know, it's just 372 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: really weird. Like this past year, I just have been 373 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: like feeling that like Holy Spirit. I didn't know that 374 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,360 Speaker 1: was a Pentecostal thing, but I've been feeling that spirit 375 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: come and go more often, but you can't ever, you 376 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: can't summon it. It comes to you. It's like a cat. 377 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: But like when we're writing, Okay, we are writing in 378 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: my backyard, writing, you know, writing songs, and I was 379 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: trying to lay the sex. I don't know, what do 380 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: you think I've got to say? No, no, no, no no. 381 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: Is it just when you're standing on the side of 382 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 1: the pool going like this with your eyes closing into 383 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 1: the trees. It was my favorite thing. That was nothing. 384 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: I mean, there was nothing religious going on there. I 385 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: just every now, it doesn't happen every time. That was 386 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 1: so we were writing this song and I was so 387 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: feeling it and so like I was really connecting with 388 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: because I sort of sometimes my approach. Not all songs 389 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: are like this, but some songs I feel like we're 390 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 1: finding them. I feel like I'm like so literally this 391 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 1: is what I do. Like I almost feel like the 392 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: song exists, and my job is to kind of close 393 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 1: my eyes and eliminate other sources of information and like 394 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 1: feel the song. Right. It's like the it's like the 395 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: elephant in the room and or the six blind guys 396 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 1: feeling the elephant and they're kind of trying to get 397 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: the shape of it. I sometimes songs come to me 398 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: like that, and I was in those moments. I so 399 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: we were writing and I was pacing across your backyard, 400 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: and I felt I felt like the song was there, 401 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: and I remember like singing it and just kind of 402 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 1: feeling it out, finding like is it here, and kind 403 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: of know it's not there. There's something. So I was 404 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: just lost in this moment. And then I remember kind 405 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,719 Speaker 1: of like looking at and you and Drew were like 406 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 1: it was beautiful. As someone that fully knows this, feeling 407 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: like it was beautiful because it's something you can't really 408 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 1: explain or touch. It's just all it's eliminating. It's not 409 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: the head. You're not sitting there doing the math on 410 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: Oh we've said this bit, and we've said this bit, 411 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: and if we've gone to this note, we should get like, 412 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 1: even though those things are so helpful, sometimes just in 413 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 1: the moment, you can just you can just close your 414 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: eyes and it's like you're you're looking for a current 415 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: in a river and you're like, there it is, and 416 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: it starts to pull you along. Bit yes, or get 417 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: really excited that I can't keep up with my own brain, 418 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: Like you said something earlier. I have to really listen 419 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: to this and I like, oh, that's a good song title. 420 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to call you after we're done with this 421 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 1: and make you write the song with me. But I 422 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: do think that the songs that we've written, ironically, it 423 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: just happened to always have this very spiritual nature to 424 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: them because they're about like fundamental sides of our humanity. Yeah, 425 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: except for the one where you go that's one of 426 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: the best things. Sometime the world will hear that song 427 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: and yeah, it's it's a great it's a great song. 428 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 1: It's very different than praying. I have to say that 429 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: that's that's the thing. That's the sort of the downside 430 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: to the intensity that I think, at least maybe that's 431 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: just the last few years of my life. I've been 432 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: so interested in that search. Um, I definitely could have 433 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: a little bit more fun in my in my music 434 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: and create do whatever feel, do whatever the wind throws 435 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: at you. Yeah, I can't do anything else. I've tried. 436 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: I tried the l A. You know, when I first 437 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: moved to l A, I was writing songs with all 438 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 1: these different people. I tried to like put the coat 439 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: on that was like hey by on the club for you, 440 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: like for your own music. I can't even imagine this 441 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: just to be just to give people what I was like, 442 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: this is obviously what you want. And then I realized 443 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: I was like, that's not I'm not anywhere near as 444 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: good as the guys that do that. So I'm just 445 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,360 Speaker 1: going to be there. No, Ben, I think you're just 446 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 1: two honest and like spiritually on a specific quest to 447 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: like be talking about popping it at the club unless 448 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: you're popping it at the club. I just personally, I 449 00:26:55,160 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 1: personally experienced you usually were like crying together. We did 450 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: poppet at the club once there was okay, we did okay, well, 451 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: and so we'll have one puppet at the I love it. 452 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: Was the first time I heard your song brother Tongue. 453 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: So it's called and it's so beautiful and that have 454 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: like speaking in tongues in it. What can you tell 455 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: everybody about it? Yeah, it's I mean, it's the songs 456 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: about the songs about the space that exists between us. 457 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: Like I think of all of life is kind of 458 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 1: filled with longing. And there's two types of longing. There's 459 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:46,719 Speaker 1: like the longing that's like directed up to something beyond us. 460 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,399 Speaker 1: And then the longing that's directed horizontally to the like 461 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: people around us, and the songs inspired by this idea 462 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: that like, you can be so close, you can get 463 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: as close as you can to other human beings, and 464 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 1: there's still this space and which to me is a 465 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: real spiritual but also very like human reality. Uh. And 466 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: I wanted, I mean, the big theme of the record, 467 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 1: of the whole album is is this quest in spirituality, 468 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: and I wanted to incorporate stuff that I grew up 469 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: understanding as as God and as spirituality, and so praying 470 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: in tongues was part of that. Ah. And yeah, So 471 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: there's just a moment in that and I don't think 472 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: I've ever heard anyone praying tongues on a record before, 473 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: but there's this moment where it's like I love it, 474 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 1: people like I love that bit of the mouth percussion 475 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,200 Speaker 1: in it, and I'm like, great, Like if it sounds 476 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: like beatboxing, then great. And I mean, in this in 477 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: a sense it is. But it's also like what I 478 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: love about the concept of praying in tongues. And I'll 479 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: bring this up purely because I think it has creative implications. 480 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: The whole idea of it was that was like one 481 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: of the things that arrived at Pentecost, when the Holy 482 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: Spirit came upon people. The first thing I did was 483 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: praying tongues. And there's all this mythology around whether it's 484 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: like good or evil or whatever. What I love about 485 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: it is if you want to express yourself using your voice, 486 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: we are forced typically to use words which are instantly reductive. 487 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,480 Speaker 1: If you say if I feel something for you, and 488 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: then I say love, that instantly eliminates all the other 489 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 1: options and brands that feeling. It kind of squeezes that 490 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: feeling into a word, which can be very powerful. But 491 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: sometimes your heart or your soul wants to like express more, 492 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: especially through like the concept of prayer. What I think 493 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: is really interesting is like if you want to ask 494 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: for something, sometimes it's like I don't even know what 495 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: I want to ask for. I don't know what I'm feeling, 496 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: that anxiety I'm feeling, And if I say I'm scared, 497 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: it's so much more than scared. If I say I'm unhappy, 498 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: it's that reduces it to language. So the concept of 499 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: praying in tongues like it eliminates the need a meaning, 500 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: but it's still produces the reaching out it's still your 501 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: voice being engaged trying to grab something. Does that make sense? Yes, no, completely. 502 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: I just want to likeational. It's like it's like so 503 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: in a music. So there is also then singing in tongues, 504 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: which I put on another song, which is it eliminates 505 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: the need to pin down lyrics. It's just and it's 506 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 1: different even to improvisation because you're not just like jazz 507 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: scatting according to rules. It's you're switching off the brain. 508 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: You're walking through the back of your heard just doing 509 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: this like reaching for something but still reaching. Does that 510 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: It makes perfect sense because I I feel like the 511 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: English language that's the one that's the only one I know. 512 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: Unfortunately you know a little bit of Spanish, but not 513 00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: very much. So English can be so anticlimactic, Like when 514 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: I tell someone I love them, it's like I want 515 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: to squeeze their faces and jump on them and shoot 516 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: fucking glitter out of my eyeball holes, and like I 517 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: want to cover them in like this golden rainbow light 518 00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: of goodness and be like, no, no no, you don't understand. 519 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: I don't just love you like I want to make 520 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: you feel this fucking way that I feel, because it's 521 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: so intense, and yeah, it can be reductive exactly, Like 522 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: I mean, you learn, we always learn all the time 523 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: that there's these German words that are like schadenfreud or 524 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: like one of my favorites was, what's the word um? 525 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I can't remember it now, but it literally 526 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: means the sadness that exists between wishing the world, wishing 527 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: a dreaming of the world as it could be, and 528 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 1: living in the world as it is. Like it's like sadness, 529 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: you know, So like there's our language. What's the word 530 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: for that? I'm so annoyed that I can't remember this, 531 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: but you can. We can just put it up here 532 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: on a video. We'll just there. Um. But you know, 533 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: like I think, yeah, by nature, language and even to 534 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: an extent, music is um. I heard a composer describe this. 535 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: It's a little bit axiomatic in that once you draw 536 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: the black note on the music line or you say 537 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,959 Speaker 1: the word, it eliminates the possibility of all the others. 538 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 1: And I think, and that can be really powerful, but 539 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: sometimes as human beings, that's what I love about the 540 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: concept of speaking in tongues. Wouldn't why wouldn't we want 541 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: to language that's just the sound of language and the 542 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: feeling of language, but it's the brain. The brain is 543 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: switched off. So it's just so you know, not that 544 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: you're going to speak gebers to somebody you love, but 545 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 1: certainly musically. I think that if we can engage with 546 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: these sides of our as a human being, these like 547 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: tools that we have, it just opens our minds up 548 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: to so much creative potential because we're not bound by 549 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: the confines of the rules of that we've constructed. You're 550 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: so smart and just fun and I love you so 551 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: I can jump across the screen and just call you 552 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 1: right now. Oh my gosh. No, it's so smart. And 553 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: I loved the music that the world hasn't heard yet, 554 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: but they will in May April whenever, whenever you say whenever, 555 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: whenever they get the pleasure of hearing is coming into 556 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 1: this year, they're going to get to hear your like. 557 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: I feel like it's a masterpiece. It's like as so 558 00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:00,040 Speaker 1: exciting working on it for so long, and it's a 559 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: just to listen to. You can just feel how much 560 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: you care about it and all of the emotion coming through. 561 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: It's just I can't use words. You have to listen 562 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 1: to it. Thank you. I'm so excited. It's so weird. 563 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: It's weird because we finished the album like over a 564 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,840 Speaker 1: year ago, and it's weird sitting with it and you 565 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: can't help but go through these cycles of like it's 566 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,879 Speaker 1: the best thing I've ever done, and then like this 567 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: is so unimportant in the scheme of where the world is, 568 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:36,399 Speaker 1: that everything's unimportant everything. That's what I've realized is just 569 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: like everything is the most important. And then like also 570 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: nothing matters and nobody cares. So you just find what 571 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 1: brings you that like filled with whatever it is that 572 00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: we're all craving and I and I feel like sharing 573 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,320 Speaker 1: that's also a scary process, Like making it is terrifying 574 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: and then sharing it so scary. But then it's like 575 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: then you birth it into its existence for public consumption. UM, 576 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,600 Speaker 1: I would highly recommend not ever looking at one comment, 577 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: but you do what you want because at that point 578 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:19,959 Speaker 1: it's like if you have it's like if you birth 579 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: a baby and it's ugly, you're not gonna You're like, no, 580 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:28,279 Speaker 1: that's a beautiful fucking baby. That's a beautiful baby in 581 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:33,240 Speaker 1: the world, and some jackass who has no good taste 582 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: could be like your baby's ugly, and you'd be like, uh, 583 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,800 Speaker 1: you don't get it, but now I feel bad about myself. 584 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: But your baby is like really dope and spiritual and gorgeous, 585 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 1: so you don't have to worry. But thank you, thank you. 586 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,359 Speaker 1: So growing up in the church, did you ever see 587 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: an exorcism? Like was it? Yeah, you did, but it's 588 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:01,239 Speaker 1: very I mean it's not like the movies, right, Like, 589 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,279 Speaker 1: so this is just how I grew up. They're not 590 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,439 Speaker 1: They're not like the movies in the sense that there's 591 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: no like I don't know if things don't shake in 592 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: the road at least as I've experienced, but like, yeah, 593 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: I've seen people like I've seen like teenagers, like teenage 594 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 1: girls get like crazy man voices and be like yeah, 595 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 1: I mean this is where that part of my brain is. 596 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: Like whether it's a spiritual thing or just some kind 597 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: of like psycho somatic human science thing, it happens, so 598 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 1: like you can grapple with kind of what the meaning 599 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,399 Speaker 1: of it all is. But I've absolutely seen Yeah, I've 600 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,480 Speaker 1: seen people's like eyes roll back and like roll around 601 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: the floor and like scream and like I've seen we 602 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: used to um because my dad is Indonesian, and like 603 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 1: he grew up spiritual. My dad's not. He doesn't feel 604 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: things very spiritually as opposed to like my mom who's 605 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: very like very spiritual. But his dad was like a 606 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: witch doctor, and he grew up surrounded by this stuff 607 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 1: like Indonesia is such a your dad's dad was a 608 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: witch doctor. Yeah, he died. You can't just like you 609 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 1: can't just throw that out there, Well, he died. He 610 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:24,560 Speaker 1: died when my dad was very young, so I didn't 611 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 1: grow up knowing him at all. But I guess I 612 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: say that to like for people that grow like for 613 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,400 Speaker 1: people like my dad from Asia and from like that 614 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 1: part of the world, spirituality is just a given. There's 615 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,839 Speaker 1: not really even a debate around like what is and isn't, 616 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: you know, which is an interesting thing when you live 617 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: in the West. And I guess that's part of maybe 618 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 1: why I've grown up so spiritual. But yeah, Like so 619 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,759 Speaker 1: my dad had all that stuff when he was a 620 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: kid um and we used to when we would go 621 00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 1: over and visit like my uncle's church in Indonesia, we 622 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: would see stuff like that, just like these sweet old 623 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 1: women like come forward and be like I need you 624 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 1: to pray for me, and then as they get prayed 625 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: for all of a sudden, they're like, I mean, it's 626 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 1: it's just it's so I can tell you what the 627 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,359 Speaker 1: idea of it as as we were taught is, and 628 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 1: then you can grab it with what it really is. 629 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 1: I think of like going to a Slayer show, but 630 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:33,439 Speaker 1: for a grandma. I mean, I guess it's I mean, 631 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 1: it's it's the idea is that there's something tormenting them, 632 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: if it's like a demon possession thing. It's so funny. 633 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: I remember, I just I loved listening to the Alice 634 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: Cooper talk to some of the stuff he was saying. 635 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,759 Speaker 1: It was so I just know how he's being like 636 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 1: as a Christian, like how he's being taught. It's just 637 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 1: I was just like just even the way he was like, oh, 638 00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,399 Speaker 1: we don't even go near Wuiji boards and like it's 639 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 1: just so funny. It's the stuff that I up kind 640 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: of being told. Um. But the idea is that these 641 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 1: people are like tormented by like a spirit that just 642 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: wants to kind of mess with their head and what 643 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: and just torment them. And so when you pray, you're 644 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: trying to be like get away from this person. You 645 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 1: have no you know, and then in that process of 646 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:23,560 Speaker 1: trying to extract these evil forces, there's like a manifestation 647 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: of stuff. And I've I mean, it's funny manifestation. What 648 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 1: do you mean by a manifest like a physical manifestation, Yeah, 649 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 1: but it's their body responding to something spiritual. So I've 650 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: seen like a friend of mine who um, who was 651 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: just we're just having a very simple like I wasn't 652 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: even part of it, but I remember kind of stopping in. 653 00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,319 Speaker 1: He was just being prayed for because he was, I guess, 654 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:51,839 Speaker 1: dealing with some stuff and these ministers. He was sitting 655 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: in the chair really normal and just like, yeah, I 656 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 1: just need some prayer, and that the process of them 657 00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: praying for him, his whole body like tensed, and then 658 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 1: he just sort of gets really agitated and like you know, 659 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: the breeding sort of and then you know that's when 660 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:09,840 Speaker 1: they're like, who am I talking to right now? And 661 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:14,440 Speaker 1: it'll be like nobody, like if if I was going 662 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,680 Speaker 1: to act it out, that's literally what happens. And you 663 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 1: can feel like, wait, you were there for this, Yeah, 664 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,840 Speaker 1: I wasn't in this is so I feel so vulnerable 665 00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:30,000 Speaker 1: as I tell me, you don't have to tell me anything. 666 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 1: You don't want to do anything you want exactly. I'm 667 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 1: I'm fine. I'm just more like I can just I 668 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: feel like you're like Francis is going to be in 669 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: the corner thing, Like she's in the corner. I always 670 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:49,439 Speaker 1: doing that thing. She's a mask and so you really 671 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: can't tell at all. She's very expressive eyes. Yeah, I've 672 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 1: been in the room. I've been in the room for 673 00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:02,279 Speaker 1: these things, and I've um, I mean, this is the 674 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: stuff that so when as you get older, between this 675 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,360 Speaker 1: stuff and then even the like the amazing spiritual experience 676 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,359 Speaker 1: I've had through music and things where even if I'm like, yeah, 677 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,319 Speaker 1: you know what, I don't believe if you were to 678 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,480 Speaker 1: have that moment as you get older with faith, were 679 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,480 Speaker 1: like I think I don't believe in a lot of this. 680 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: There are these certain experiences that I look back and 681 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,400 Speaker 1: I'm like, even if I don't believe it, I can't 682 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:27,280 Speaker 1: deny that that happened. I can't say that that didn't. 683 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:32,960 Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean some some of the crazy things 684 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:38,560 Speaker 1: that we would just see, Yeah, it's you know what else, 685 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 1: You're you're free to tell me all of the things. 686 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:46,239 Speaker 1: Let me think of other I mean, and exorcism is 687 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: kind of that's that's crazy, that's sounds that sounds like 688 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,680 Speaker 1: it could be a crazy experience. I personally had one 689 00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 1: done to myself, and it was not that I did 690 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:03,480 Speaker 1: because okay, so I by, oh my god. Okay. So 691 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,279 Speaker 1: this lady had a cat that was really cute, and 692 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 1: that's why I now have the stupid cats I have 693 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:12,400 Speaker 1: that p on my bed. It started with Mary Alice, 694 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 1: Mary Alice from Nashville. I was like, you have a 695 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: demon in me? And I was like, oh no, but 696 00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:31,239 Speaker 1: I did used to go like like it's like what 697 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,319 Speaker 1: do I do about it? And She's like and so 698 00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,600 Speaker 1: she like swung a crystal over my stomach and said 699 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,920 Speaker 1: a bunch of things and and her cat was there. 700 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:47,040 Speaker 1: And then I was like, okay, my am I good. 701 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,319 Speaker 1: And She's like, now I have to do like an 702 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 1: exorcism of like your body in your bed andrew hole house. 703 00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,880 Speaker 1: So she came and put salt in every doorway, opened 704 00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,279 Speaker 1: up all the doors, she like lit SAMs sort of 705 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,600 Speaker 1: urban went around the whole house, and like I was 706 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 1: fully prepared to be like, okay, I'm going to turn 707 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:10,120 Speaker 1: into like the girl from the movie The extorcystem like 708 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,040 Speaker 1: some crazy sh it's about to happen, But really, I 709 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:19,040 Speaker 1: think I fell asleep. My exorcism was really mellow, but 710 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 1: I liked it. To me, it was kind of just 711 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,839 Speaker 1: like therapeutic to have some lady like pray over you. 712 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,520 Speaker 1: I do think praying for someone is such and this 713 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:32,359 Speaker 1: is like non specific to any religion, just praying for 714 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,359 Speaker 1: someone or like sending them positive energy. I think it's 715 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 1: the kindest thing anyone could ever do, to take their 716 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,479 Speaker 1: time and their energy to like try to make sure 717 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,520 Speaker 1: like you're doing okay. I think it's just so sweet. 718 00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 1: It's really kind so for her to just like do that. 719 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:57,799 Speaker 1: Granted I was probably paying her five, but anyways, it 720 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,239 Speaker 1: was just like a nice little therapy session, is what 721 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:05,800 Speaker 1: I looked at it. I mean, there's there's a video 722 00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,920 Speaker 1: that you should go and look up. It's called Firstly. 723 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,239 Speaker 1: You can just google exorcisms and you'll see a lot 724 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 1: of this stuff. There are some pretty wacky people out there, 725 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,839 Speaker 1: but there's one video that I think is worth looking at. 726 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:23,279 Speaker 1: Um there's an auzzy journalist called John Saffran s A 727 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,799 Speaker 1: F R A N. And he did this series. He's 728 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,160 Speaker 1: kind of like a Louis Theroux type journalist, was very 729 00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:34,520 Speaker 1: like he's a Jewish guy. He's super lovely and like 730 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,840 Speaker 1: really amiable as a person. And um, he did a 731 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,360 Speaker 1: series where he visited all these different religions and like 732 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,279 Speaker 1: participated in there. It's called John Saffran Versus God. And 733 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,759 Speaker 1: I think maybe he's agnostic or atheistic. I'm not sure, 734 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:53,919 Speaker 1: but he visited all these different faith traditions, like he 735 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,080 Speaker 1: he was crucified in some town and like the Philippines 736 00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,640 Speaker 1: where they literally like nailed through his hands and stuff. 737 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,239 Speaker 1: Super interesting guy. His whole thing was like I'm just 738 00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:06,160 Speaker 1: going to go and experience everything. Um. And then the 739 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:11,960 Speaker 1: last one he did was this Christian exorcist in America. 740 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:17,000 Speaker 1: So he then gets an exorcism, ah, and he's he's 741 00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,080 Speaker 1: a very he's a comedian. So he's very like cynical 742 00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:24,759 Speaker 1: and sarcastic and very funny. And the video of his exorcism, 743 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,560 Speaker 1: even to this day, apparently he reflects on it like 744 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:30,640 Speaker 1: I don't know what that was because you watch he's 745 00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,919 Speaker 1: this really he can't talk through the bit of a list, 746 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,200 Speaker 1: but you know, I went and visited a Muslim cleric 747 00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,160 Speaker 1: and like he's that's his whole tone of his experience, 748 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:43,359 Speaker 1: and then you watch him five guys have to hold 749 00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:47,879 Speaker 1: him down as he's like like it's wild, and they 750 00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,120 Speaker 1: cut to they show like his camera crew and stuff, 751 00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,359 Speaker 1: just being like we don't know what's going like they 752 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,919 Speaker 1: kind of break the fourth wall and they're like, we've 753 00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,120 Speaker 1: never seen John like this. We don't know what's going on. 754 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 1: Hold on, what's that called? So everybody, including myself, can 755 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:08,759 Speaker 1: write this down. John saffran versus God, that's the whole 756 00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,439 Speaker 1: John Saffran versus God. Oh my god, I'm so oh 757 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:19,919 Speaker 1: my god, I'm so exciting. Oh my god. I think 758 00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,319 Speaker 1: God is one of those words that has so much 759 00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:26,160 Speaker 1: baggage and like ship on top of it that it's 760 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:28,839 Speaker 1: like I don't even know about that word. Like it's 761 00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:30,640 Speaker 1: a beautiful word, but at the same time, it's like 762 00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,719 Speaker 1: I want to make up a different like like how 763 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,880 Speaker 1: prince became a symbol. I wish there's just like a 764 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,200 Speaker 1: symbol trying to figure out what it would be that 765 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:44,520 Speaker 1: hasn't already been used if you think of anything, but 766 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:47,080 Speaker 1: that's insane And I'm going to watch that and your 767 00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:52,720 Speaker 1: because we're like almost out of time. Okay. Rapid Fire 768 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:57,759 Speaker 1: stupid question. Here we go. What is invisible that you 769 00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:09,080 Speaker 1: wish people could see? Well, maybe I haven't thought this through, 770 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,640 Speaker 1: but something that's invisible that I wish I could see 771 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:17,480 Speaker 1: that bad smells because I have no I have no 772 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:21,000 Speaker 1: sense of smell, so I wish I could. I didn't 773 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:25,800 Speaker 1: know that. I didn't know that. It doesn't often come up. Hey, Kesha, 774 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:27,680 Speaker 1: how are you doing? What if the verse goes by 775 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,720 Speaker 1: the way, I can't smell anything. You can't smell anything. 776 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,960 Speaker 1: I can. I wonder if what I have with smell 777 00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,200 Speaker 1: is how people describe like legal blindness. I think I 778 00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,839 Speaker 1: can kind of make out shapes and forms. I can 779 00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:44,320 Speaker 1: often tell that there is a smell happening. But I remember, 780 00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,560 Speaker 1: like this is when I knew I had a real problem, 781 00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,759 Speaker 1: when I was having like digestion health stuff. And this 782 00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,080 Speaker 1: is a great podcast story. Had I had to give 783 00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:58,920 Speaker 1: a had to give a stool sample, which um, they 784 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:01,120 Speaker 1: give you like a little thing that you like, you 785 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:02,839 Speaker 1: screw in and you're supposed to scoop out a bit 786 00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:04,400 Speaker 1: of pool. And what they told me to do is 787 00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,560 Speaker 1: poop into an ice cream bucket, get the lid of 788 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:11,040 Speaker 1: the things, scoop it. So I did that, Hey, everyone, 789 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:15,120 Speaker 1: I have so many questions, but go on. And then 790 00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,120 Speaker 1: so I'm sitting on the toilet. I've got my sample, 791 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:18,960 Speaker 1: I put it to the side, and then I'm holding 792 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,080 Speaker 1: this little ice cream container of my poop, and I thought, 793 00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,960 Speaker 1: this is my one chance to find out if I 794 00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:31,239 Speaker 1: can actually smell. There was my life. If it was 795 00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,400 Speaker 1: like cameras, literally, there would have been a shot of me. 796 00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:38,160 Speaker 1: Like to this day, I don't know what a poop 797 00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:46,400 Speaker 1: smells like. Oh my God, you're the perfect boyfriend. But 798 00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:51,080 Speaker 1: I washed my clothes like after two wears because then 799 00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:53,520 Speaker 1: I'm paranoid that you know, I've been told that I 800 00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:56,520 Speaker 1: don't smell. But that's something it's happened. It's happened before 801 00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:14,200 Speaker 1: someone's after me. Book, you evoked the Holy spirit O God. 802 00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,080 Speaker 1: This episode is going to be Ben Abraham and I 803 00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:24,000 Speaker 1: talked about poop. Oh Jesus. Okay, well, I think that's 804 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:28,480 Speaker 1: a great place to add. So check out Ben Abraham's 805 00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:33,879 Speaker 1: music at I just find my instagram Ben Ben Abraham. 806 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,280 Speaker 1: Let's just do that. Ben Ben Abraham is good. Hopefully 807 00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:43,399 Speaker 1: you'll just hear it. It's really really good. I can't 808 00:49:43,400 --> 00:50:00,600 Speaker 1: wait for the world to hear it. Three,