1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network, brought to 2 00:00:03,640 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: you by Savage Arms. Now, Savage has come out with 3 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: a new model, and that model is the one ten 4 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: Ultra Light. At under six pounds, the one Tent Ultra 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: Light is designed to combat elevation and the elements while 6 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: maintaining the performance of a factory blue printed Savage one 7 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: tent action. This comes in a variety of calibers. It 8 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: has a gray act you finished stock with adjustable comb height. 9 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 1: This is an awesome rifle and basically Savage is at 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: it again. These guys have done amazing things in the 11 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: past and now they're doing amazing things in the future. 12 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: If you want to find out more information about the 13 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 1: one Tent Ultra Light, visit Savage Arms dot com. My 14 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: name is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the host of the Bear 15 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be your host into the 16 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: world of hunting the icon of the North American Wilderness Fair. 17 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: We'll talk about tactics, gear conservation. We will also bring 18 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: you into some of the wildest country on the planet 19 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: chasing fair. This week we had Matt d and Adam 20 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:26,479 Speaker 1: Keith of Land and Legacy consultation. Come to the Bear 21 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: Hunting Magazine Global headquarters. These guys have been friends of 22 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: mine for a while. They have a really good and 23 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: very informative land management podcast, but they do a lot 24 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: of land consultation. They in the last three years have 25 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: done consultations in twenty seven states. So we have a 26 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 1: conversation about land management, about white tail hunting, and a 27 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: whole lot of stuff. Interesting conversation. The first of this 28 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: podcast is us touring some land right here in the 29 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: Ozarks of Arkansas, and we're kind of just getting their 30 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: commentary on tree species and ways that I could improve 31 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: this property. So you're gonna enjoy that. Muzzleloader seasons in 32 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: the United States and in Canada are typically fairly liberal 33 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: in terms of season dates, length of seasons, and that's 34 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 1: why I love to hunt with a muzzloader, taking some 35 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: good deer with a muzzloader. And I'm gonna be hunting 36 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 1: more this fall with a muzzloader than I'll probably ever have. 37 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: And c v A, the company c v A, makes 38 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: an incredible line of muzzloaders. The company was established in 39 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: They're known for their Bugara barrels, which is a world 40 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: famous high quality barrel they have multiple lines of muzzloaders. 41 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: They're owned for some very high end, very accurate muzzloaders, 42 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: but they're also known for their price point in some places. 43 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: C v A is a is a great place for 44 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: you to step into the muzzloader world or to upgrade 45 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: your old muzzloader to something way better. So check out 46 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: c v A dot com. Be ready for this fall. 47 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:27,679 Speaker 1: I know that I will. You know, one of the 48 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: big ex bearers ever killed with the Musloders building. Mm hmmm. 49 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: The Western Bear Foundation nonprofit hunting conservation organization based out 50 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: of Cody, Wyoming. They're fighting the good fight out west, 51 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: standing up for the rights of bears. Yep, that's right. 52 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: These conservationists hunters like us members of the Western Bearing Foundation, 53 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: we actually love bears. We like them, we want them 54 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: on the landscape. We also like their fat, their hide, 55 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: their meat, their claws, and I think we can both 56 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: have what we want. And that's what the Western Bear 57 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: Foundation is doing. They're standing up for the rights of 58 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: sportsmen and for hunting, but also for solid bear conservation. 59 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: Check them out. So we're just gonna walk through this property, 60 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: small property here in the Ozarks, and I just want 61 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: to hear your commentary on the different species, maybe what 62 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: you think happened here, and maybe what you would if 63 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: you just had like a ten minute consultation with a client, 64 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: like you would say, yeah, hey, this is what you 65 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: should do if we were managing this for for white 66 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,799 Speaker 1: tail deer. And uh, we've been doing a little logging 67 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: on the property. You guys will be glad to know. 68 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: I know you guys hate like can't full canopy cover? Um. 69 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm working on a barn over here. So 70 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: we cut down some oaks that we milled up, and 71 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: I'm amazed that you can take out one oak tree. 72 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: Well how much lumber, but also how much canopy space? 73 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: I mean like I've got like what feels like room 74 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: for like a quarter ack or food thought after like, uh, 75 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: you know one time cutting down a tree. So let's 76 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: just walk up here. Hey, yeah, all right. Do you 77 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: guys have these white buck eyes or Ohio buck eyes 78 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: of man? I bet this property has a thousand Ohio 79 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: buck eyes on it. I mean, I'm serious, they are. 80 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: It's kind of a weird sight for us to see 81 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: them in typically yeah bottom land, um, but it's are 82 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: there wet? Is this not hillside? No, usually typically dry. Yeah, 83 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: there there I've been some of them out. I've got 84 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: some that I really like. But so there's a lot 85 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: of limes stone in this area, surprisingly really good soil. 86 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: Like we have these big limestone like shelves. Like there's 87 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: parts of this property where you can see, yeah, big outcropference. 88 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 1: But if you're not, like if your shovel is not 89 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: hitting you know, a five thousand pound rock, you're in 90 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: pretty black dirt. Yeah, all right, tell tell you what. 91 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 1: It's an interesting forest composition here with you know, you've 92 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 1: got some taller Eastern red cedars thirty plus foot tall, 93 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: but then you have hedge or o say George Berry, 94 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: and then you have the um oak regeneration where there's 95 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: a little bit of sunlight. There is a major issue 96 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: that we see that will address more and more as 97 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,840 Speaker 1: we move up through here. Can I guess what bush 98 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: honeysucker that's the place is full of it? And and 99 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: how far are you from Flattville? So us off the 100 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 1: understanding Kansas City, St. Louis, these big metropolis areas in Illinois, Ohio. God, 101 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: you can just see it like spreading like a virus. 102 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: So people don't say the coronavirus. Did anybody we are 103 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: staying pretty close to each other, did uh? Did they 104 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: bring that in for what? Ornamental? So a lot of 105 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: our No, no, but it's got tons of berries and 106 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,679 Speaker 1: birds eat the berries and then they carry those berries 107 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: away poop mount woof, and you can just see it 108 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: just it goes from residential areas out to the rural areas. 109 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 1: So and what you see like with these tree species, 110 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: a lot of them are some of the first ones 111 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: from a tree species standpoint to come back after something 112 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: was open walnut, honey, locusts hedge, eastern red ceatar, and 113 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: per simmon in this point in the country. Yeah, that's 114 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: what you typically see come back from that first generation 115 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: forest would have been have been definitely definitely this was 116 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: open probably. I would like to honestly go back in 117 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: Google Earth and see or see what the sight would 118 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: register as. But this was way back when very open. 119 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: Now close all secondary growth, so you know, go back 120 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: presettlement most likely glades, savannahs, open landscape because we're right 121 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 1: at that transition. You would have had that, you know, 122 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: but your south, your south slopes would still have raging 123 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: fires going up on them and so they would be 124 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: more open south and so then once fire was removed, 125 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: then it started to you saw the tree species probably 126 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: transition over from the north and east slopes or areas 127 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: where fire wasn't as severe, so you would have um 128 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: the o' kickry transition more on the south and the 129 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: west facing slopes. But then when started getting logged out. 130 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 1: Here we are now where at some point it was 131 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: probably logged out, and then you have these tree species 132 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: that are here. Now do you think it would be 133 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: safe to say that this was probably logged like in 134 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 1: the nineteen forties or something, because there are some big oaks, 135 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: like like we're looking at a start left here, there's 136 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: a big hole in the campy where I cut down 137 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: one of my better oaks on this property for that barn. Sure, 138 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: And I mean we we counted the rings back on 139 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: that oak um, you know, like from just right on 140 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: the ground, and it was eight plus. Yeah, we kind 141 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,959 Speaker 1: of it was. It was I think a northern red oak. 142 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: It was definitely red oak, but it could have been 143 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 1: a spotted oak. Some people from spotted oaks. All right, 144 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: probably a northern red oak. Let's keep walking up there, um, 145 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: But I wouldn't say that a lot of these other 146 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: that's amazing. How fastened some of the cedars growing, how 147 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: big and quick get Yeah, you nailed it, man, chink 148 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: a lot of chicka pin oak here, Like down two 149 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: hours south of here, you can't find a chinckapin oak. 150 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: I mean it's not as rocky down there, probably is it. 151 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,439 Speaker 1: Maybe you know, like on the other side of the 152 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: Arkansas River down the wash toss like, you can't find 153 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: a chicken pan oak. This place wants to have chicken 154 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 1: pin oaks more than standard white oaks because of all 155 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: the you know we see at the site of chicken 156 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: pin oaks on bluffs creeks so rocky. Yeah, so that's 157 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: that's another sign that hey, this is or once was 158 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: very open, glady like. So right over here is where 159 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: I cut down a boat dark. There was a boat 160 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: dark right there that was probably twenty two at the 161 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:50,239 Speaker 1: base and was straight as an arrow, which is unusual, 162 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,280 Speaker 1: and it was I guess was because canopy was already 163 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: around it, and so it just had the same thing 164 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: that you see with a lot of the seaters. Even 165 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: some of the heirs Simmons in here, they're typically straight, 166 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: but I mean they're big simmons on the cherry over there. 167 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: That's very straight. You can get the leaning to that 168 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: seat right there. Man, I'm surprised you didn't it. Man, 169 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: I would have cut that I was going to. But 170 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: it's this is like my trail, so you know, we 171 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: kind of gotta keep that one. But like, see here's 172 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: a big, big red oak, big nice red oak right there. Yeah, 173 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 1: this is like when we look here, it's it's a 174 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: it's it's diverse, which is great. You have some chink 175 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: a pins. But then like you look up here and 176 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: you've got per simmons which are tall and straight, and 177 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: that tells you that it was open. It was. Yeah, 178 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: there's another bit of black locust right there. There's a 179 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: honey locust just down below us. Again, those are some 180 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: of the first ones that will come back. Every farmer 181 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: deals with black locus, honeylocus coming in pastures well, because 182 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:51,959 Speaker 1: that's the first thing that comes back in an opening 183 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: to make it in transition. Here, here's a good case 184 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: study right here. So when we bought this place, the 185 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: first thing I did was I cleared order acre food plot. 186 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: Of course, that's what you're that's exactly what you're supposed 187 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: to do. So this was woods where we're going right now. 188 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,439 Speaker 1: This was all woods and I'm gonna tell you a 189 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 1: tragic Okay, I'm gonna tell you a story of triumph 190 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: of the white tail hunter. But then I'm also going 191 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: to tell you the same story in the same story, 192 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,719 Speaker 1: a story of tragedy. Built this food plot, dug out 193 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: the stumps. You know, you could probably shoot forty yards 194 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: across this and uh, let's go, let's way through all this. 195 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 1: You're probably good. You're probably good. Got it all probably 196 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: is easy to say, but we still have a two 197 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: hour drive. Good thing we didn't use Kolby's tick repellent chapstick. Okay. 198 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: So this was in two thousand five. I cleared a 199 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: lane so from my house I could see this plot. 200 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: It's since grown up. I saw a giant deer from 201 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: my house in two thousand seven, and this the deer 202 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: I ended up killing that, that big, big deer that's 203 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: in there. This field was a beautiful clover field. I mean, 204 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: this is pretty a clover food plot as you've ever seen. 205 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: The deer were hitting it well, So that's the victory, okay. 206 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 1: And what I was shocked with at the time was 207 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: that this was not the kind of place I wanted 208 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: a deer hunt. I mean, to me, deer hunting was 209 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: like going to some wild place, and here in my 210 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: backyard I had the suburban, pretty suburban backyard had these deer. 211 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,079 Speaker 1: But the reason I had these deer is because the 212 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: forty acres north of me was uninhabited. I killed two 213 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: real nice deer out of this food plot. And then 214 00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: a guy bought that place who was a big deer 215 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: hunter and totally changed the deer hunting. What's well, he 216 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: just lived there. He just bought the land and was 217 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: a deer hunter, and more power to him. He just 218 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 1: started bringing in family and they killed deer, and he 219 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: actually killed a giant deer on that place. So do 220 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,959 Speaker 1: you see the status my food plot? How dilapidated it is? 221 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 1: Lost interest in hunting here? After all, the potential for 222 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: big deer was pretty much gone. So anyway, this has 223 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 1: been grown up for seven years. So if on this 224 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: small property this opening, what would be most beneficial for 225 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: me to attract wildlife? Here? To do with this piece 226 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: of property? At one time I would say this was 227 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: close to a quarter acre. So I guess a big 228 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: question would be what are the this is the same 229 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: questions we always ask our clients want to kill a deer, 230 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: all right, so we want to kill a deer, just 231 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: any dere or a mature four and a half for 232 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: older buck, I'd like a three and one quarter. So 233 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: then we got to look at the neighborhood and say, 234 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:49,600 Speaker 1: what's the limited resource here? Um? Is there food plots? 235 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: Most just like you told the story, Yeah, their food 236 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: plots in the area. People are feeding deer. Okay, so 237 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: that's right. Our saw out that different from Texas, right, 238 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: just more trees, but we still have good you could 239 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: and so uh, you know, feeding is a big thing. 240 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: So you're not gonna be able unless you want to 241 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: spend a fortune to outbate your neighbor most likely. So okay, 242 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: what is something else? And this is where a lot 243 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: of people aren't doing this? But what happens to a 244 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: deer that gets pressure during the fall? He starts trying 245 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: to hold up get thicker cover. He's just trying to survive, 246 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: and that comes in the form of thickets, the best 247 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: cover that's also secure. So it's not getting he's not 248 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: even if you have the thickest area in the neighborhood, 249 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: if you walk through it every day, they're not going 250 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: to utilize it like they would. So if you could 251 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: turn in these thick pockets or use um just young 252 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: forest restoration, cut some timber let, some thickets, some stump 253 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: sprouts grow up, that's where hinge cutting is come in 254 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: really popular. If you do a mix, you can provide 255 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: a secure area for the d here, especially a maturity 256 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: or who's keying in on a pressure a lot more 257 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: than a dough and a with a with a button 258 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: buck behind her that's coming into your yard every day. 259 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: So I would much prefer if if this is an 260 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: area we're in a state that you can bait, I 261 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: would much prefer to have quality cover then a quality 262 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: food plug. Well, there's food out there, as we're saying 263 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: through bait that's super easy to get to. It's always out. 264 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: What if I want to be cool and have a 265 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: food plot I can put on Instagram? What'd you doing that? 266 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: I think? I think clearly I don't property. You really 267 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: need to take in the neighborhood and what those other 268 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: resources are or aren't identify that limited resource here and 269 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: what we find in most places it is not only 270 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: just good cover, but suit the secure cover and then 271 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: hunt that because The thing is, it doesn't take reset 272 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: it get the cool season out. Well, I mean okay, 273 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: but but you're not saying come back in here and 274 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: plant more clover. You could if you want to, and 275 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: then pick a spot just hundred yards that way or 276 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: whichever way the property lays, and get over there and 277 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: then cut into young forest pocket. It may be a 278 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: half acre where you just go in kind of do 279 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: what you did here, but lead the tops where they lay, 280 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: just cut them and and that creates. Now you have 281 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: pretty good food. You could have your feed er if 282 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: you want, so you've got a destination feeding area. But 283 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: then you have a couple of areas if you do them. 284 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 1: Una always spied something. What is that? What does it 285 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: look like? Uh? We kind of looks like weak. So 286 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: it's a cool season grass. Its native but in a 287 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: practical sense a bottle brush right, bottle brush grass, that 288 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: is what it is. That's that's a pretty common that's 289 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: a cool see you'll find um. And of course so 290 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 1: I think elm cut elms. Yeah, they're not doing any good, 291 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 1: are they? Well? When they're you know, above the reach 292 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,640 Speaker 1: of a deer. But elm is one of the species 293 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: American elm. When you cut it, and it regenerates highly 294 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: palatable foods, and deer will go to that woody browse 295 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: over other species such a you know, another one is 296 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 1: flowering dogwood. Um, maples. There's a couple of maples and 297 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: stuff therough here. Cut those things that's additional foods or 298 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: greenbriers growing everywhere, encouraged that type of native forest to grow. 299 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,920 Speaker 1: So we've worked now we created Land of Legacy in 300 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: two thousand seventeen, and we've worked in twenty seven states 301 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: across the country. Um, mainly about white tail deer. And 302 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: there's only a few tree species that we would say 303 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: we find deer highly selecting to eat the leaves. And 304 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 1: one of those probably the most popular, boat arc really crazy. 305 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: It doesn't look like a leaf that a deer with eat. 306 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: It looks waxy, leathery, thick, but they just devour it. Yeah, 307 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 1: I'll be doing it. And so you may not notice 308 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: it because you have an abundance of it around here. 309 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: And and this is a pretty thick you know, you 310 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: have a lot of undergrowth. Yeah, unfortunately it's getting the 311 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: bush in bush honeysuckle. But um, yeah, you know another 312 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: tree that I've I've seen in this part of the 313 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: world deer selecting for their leaves is um is mulberry. 314 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: That's the other one that at one time was watching 315 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: the dough feeding on acorns. It was it was in 316 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,159 Speaker 1: the fall, the leaves returning, and I was sitting right 317 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: under this big, big mulberry and one of those you know, 318 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: the leaves are like five six inches across sometimes and 319 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: this big leaf like you know, we kind of swoon 320 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: down to the ground and landed and that no walked 321 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: like thirty yards to pick that leaf. This and but 322 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: that's just observation though. In a tree stand and just 323 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: being out with nature, you see those things, and that 324 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: is obviously a preference. Right key into those preferences and 325 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: offer those types or or make that food available here 326 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: on the property where it's not being elsewhere that forty 327 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: acres at the guy bought, he's not gonna go in 328 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,719 Speaker 1: there and do that kind of stuff. Diverse by your property, 329 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 1: make it different by knowing what they like, what they're 330 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,479 Speaker 1: attracted to, and make it where it's accessible to him. 331 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 1: Anybody who's hunted national forest is probably ran into clear 332 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: cuts before and gone. Well, it seems like those deer 333 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: really like that clear cut. But those could be fifty 334 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: acre clear cuts. We're talking half acre to an acre 335 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: to where it really congregates deer travel patterns, and so 336 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: it's like, well, there's still beneficial. Now, the same number 337 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: of deer wouldn't use that. That us a two acre 338 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: clear cut, but the deer in this area will certainly 339 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: key in on that and start using that. Summer tanagers 340 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 1: still saying, all right, we're at the Bare Honey Magazine 341 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: global headquarters. We just went on a little tour nature walk, 342 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:23,920 Speaker 1: nature walk. Yeah, so I've got Matt Die Adam Keith, 343 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: Colby moorehead with global headquarters. Um Man, thank you guys 344 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: for driving down here. I appreciate it absolutely. So you 345 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: guys are fellow Ozarker's that's right. So we're like, uh yeah, 346 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,360 Speaker 1: so so you're like pretty much in your home turf here, 347 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: so you're about two hours away from from where we 348 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: are here. I'm born and raised Ozarkian, Matt semi adopted. 349 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 1: I guess that's just now home. You know, we've been 350 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: talking about a couple of times on the podcast. We've 351 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: been talking about tribalism and how that's bad. So I'm 352 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,479 Speaker 1: trying to reframe my mind to not say like us 353 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: and them like ozark ER's like versus the world. You know, 354 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 1: that's kind of my world view. Is that what's coming 355 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: down to You're on the border, moved here from Dallas. 356 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: He's doing really good. He's uh, he's kind of picking up. 357 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: You know. So you said us and them and Matt 358 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: and I are we those well yeah, undetermined those guys 359 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: from from the state line. Yeah, you know what. What 360 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: what is funny though, is that between here and there, 361 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: between like you know, our northwest Arkansas and Missouri, people 362 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 1: are really confused whether where the South starts. Absolutely because 363 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: to me, southern Missouri exhibits the characteristics of an upland 364 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: southern culture. Yeah okay, uh so upland southern. You know, 365 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: like when you when you hear the words southern and 366 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 1: here we go again travelism. Nope, we're just talking about 367 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,719 Speaker 1: what we see. We're just a messenger here, observation. Now, 368 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 1: like you know, like southern culture you would typically associate 369 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: with agriculture, swampland like like, and so that's not what 370 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 1: this is at all. No. Um, but I heard a 371 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 1: phrase actually pretty recently about Upland Southern culture, which would 372 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: be the Ozarks and the Highland Appalachian region. I was 373 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: gonna say, because I came from the east and so 374 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: I had a lot of experience Appalachia. And it's like 375 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: this compare and contrast. I have both experiences, like I 376 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: put almost them together. That's got my heritage, you know, 377 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: I'm I'm scotch Irish. And so when when we were 378 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: I guess my ancestors were brought over um it was 379 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: and they and then they started taking homesteading or taking 380 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: up um home places. It was. It was the Appalachia's 381 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: West Virginia and Virginia. And then whenever that started to 382 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: I guess when they started to move um and I 383 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: guess with a little bit of history, Uh, when they 384 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: ran out of money, then they moved on to those arcs. 385 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: Because it was so much like West Virginia Virginia. I 386 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: would think that, you know, in my mindset, if if 387 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: it didn't work back there, I wouldn't move to some 388 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,439 Speaker 1: place that looks very similar and again again. But they 389 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: did so here. That's why the Ozarks are one of 390 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: the poorest places in the country because they tried it 391 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: again here and it didn't work again. You just stop 392 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 1: in Kentucky or Tennessee. I read just the other day 393 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: that um, at one time in the Ozarks of Arkansas, 394 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: seventy percent of the settlers were from Mid Tennessee Middle Tennessee. 395 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: So we have we had a ton of overlap with 396 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,920 Speaker 1: culture between Middle Tennessee and in Eastern Tennessee as well. 397 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: But like that was like the travel route, and you 398 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: can see how patterns started to develop in communities because 399 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: you know, there would be these communities that formed and 400 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: then they're like, hey, Jim and Sue moved to Arkansas. Yeah, 401 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: I hear there's this, and that there and this, Like constantly, 402 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: these people were moving based upon a promise of a 403 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: better It's a cattleman's paradise. Uh no. So yeah, it's 404 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: good to have you guys here. Man. So, you guys 405 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: have a business called landing Legacy, and landing legacy is 406 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: a lot of different things. Tell me what land of 407 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:41,200 Speaker 1: legacy is. How much time do we have? So give 408 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 1: a short version and then we'll get into the long version. 409 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: The short version of so were natural Resource Management land 410 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: consulting from So we work with landowners across the country 411 00:25:54,760 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: to restore landscapes, to offer quality, healthy landscapes for the 412 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: wildlife that lived there. Um. Sometimes we get into cattle 413 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: multi use properties where we're trying to integrate crop rotations, 414 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:13,439 Speaker 1: cattle rotations with with more productive wildlife populations. Yeah, now 415 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: are are you guys? I know you're very well versed 416 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: in biology. What's your educational background in So I have 417 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: a degree in biology with the concentration wildlife management and 418 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: I'm I'm an agriculture animal science, So I come from 419 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: the agg world. But have you know I was fortunate 420 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 1: enough to have a family farm that was cattle operation, 421 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: but was really passionate about hunting. So my brother and I, um, 422 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: we just kind of self taught school of hard knocks 423 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 1: of cutting trees that really attracted wildlife, burning that really 424 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: helps the wildlife. Things like that. It sounds like you 425 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,200 Speaker 1: have a really complicated process here. Cut trees attracted wildlife, 426 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: burn attracted wildlife, like caveman stuff pretty much. Yeah, it's 427 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,440 Speaker 1: like what was nature? You know, cave may in style, 428 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: Like I I call it caveman Um thought process. I 429 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: was making a joke and now you're like, I'm dead serious, 430 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,880 Speaker 1: Like because you know, first caveman when he saw fire 431 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 1: for the first time, he said fire good. Yeah, Yeah, 432 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:20,240 Speaker 1: if you build the bedding gear will come. Essentially you 433 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,440 Speaker 1: can boil land management down to disturbances. Fire and cutting 434 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: trees are is a type of disturbance. Cattle grazing as 435 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: a type of disturbance. So as many articles and stuff 436 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: as you can read about land management and this and that, 437 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: you can quickly complicate things. But essentially, man, you've got 438 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: a lot of disturbances on properties, you're probably gonna have 439 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,639 Speaker 1: quite a bit of wildlife. Yeah, but isn't that the 440 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 1: history of North American continent? Like we often have this 441 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: image that pre European settlement the continent was just like 442 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: full of wildlife. And what I've been read in in 443 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: uh a book by Brooks Blevins we had Brooks Blevins 444 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: on the podcast a while back, is that there was 445 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: a there was a period of time potentially thousands of 446 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,400 Speaker 1: years when much of the Ozarks were uninhabited year round 447 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: by Native Americans. Yeah, so there was there was year 448 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: round colonization by Native Americans. Well, let me back up 449 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: twelve thousand years ago as the first human evidence in 450 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 1: the Ozarks for you know, that's that's when the people 451 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: first got here. Yea, they stayed here year round for 452 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: like a couple of thousand years they were here and 453 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: then for whatever reason, permanent settlement retreated, and then there 454 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 1: were several thousand years and that was part of the 455 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: reason the Ozarks were so uh uh, such a good 456 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: place to settle in the seventeen hundreds, and like when 457 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: French trappers and stuff, the French were the ones that 458 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: settled all these places, named all these places. It's really 459 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: a shame tribalism. I love, I love the French um 460 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: the and when they got here, there were no year 461 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,479 Speaker 1: round native tribes here, and the O s age were 462 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: the main ones that were using this and they would 463 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 1: seasonally hunt this and uh So, anyway, I can't remember 464 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: exactly why I started telling that story, something about disturbances maybeces. 465 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 1: So we had we had this idea that that there 466 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: was all this wildlife here. But when the Native Americans 467 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: weren't here those several thousand years, where there weren't as 468 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: much human disturbances, primarily by fire, wildlife populations were lower. 469 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: And I think populations too. When you read the journals 470 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: of some of the early exploration, they'll talk a lot 471 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: about wildlife and in the vast quantities that were there 472 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: but you also have to understand two when you look 473 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: back and and kind of study that is that populations 474 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: fluctuated pretty significantly, like if you had really severe winners 475 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: a couple of years in a row, populations were lower 476 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: or major drought, and or you had a influx of 477 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: prey population and then at some point following that as 478 00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: an influx of predator population, so the prey species lowered, 479 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: and once it lowered to a certain amount, pray species 480 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 1: are predator species moved on or or starved. And so 481 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: you know, depending on when you were here. And we 482 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: talk a lot so much about native landscapes, that's a 483 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: big part of our business. But that's where you know, 484 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: the question is, well what do we call a native 485 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: what time frame? And we go for what's achievable. Well, 486 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: you know that seventeen hundred just pre European settlement, because 487 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: we can't go back and bring animals that have gone extinct, 488 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: like we can go that's not in Yeah, that's right. 489 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: So we really try to manage for that native presettling. 490 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: And we know that it was through the settlers that 491 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: it was an abundant landscape with lots of wildlife, with 492 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: lots of diversity, fantastic mixtures of different plant communities from 493 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: hard mass producing trees all the way down to you know, 494 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: grasses both cool and warm season stuff. Like, they's everything 495 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: here growing in the landscape. So if that was some 496 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: of the best times, well, let's restore it, let's get 497 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: it back. Or or you read those journals. Uh, you know, 498 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: everybody's probably at some point stumbled upon or read a 499 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: portion of Lewis and Clark journals. But they talk a 500 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 1: lot about the species that they find or used for 501 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: medicinal purposes, and it's like, oh, yeah, we got that. 502 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: We don't have a lot of it anymore, but it's 503 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: still here. Um. And so that's always been really really 504 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: cool for me to look back in history and study 505 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: those cabas Davaca. Have you ever Have you ever read 506 00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: that book? I have not? Um, it's right, really you 507 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: should you you you should read the book. It's it's 508 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: the first journal of the first European that traveled across 509 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: the southern United States. Uh fifteen something is that the 510 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: day Vaca? Uh that that was his name. He was, 511 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: he was a Spanish guy, and uh, incredible book. Um. 512 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna backtrack on myself because I think I 513 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: got it mixed up. When the when the Native Americans 514 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: were gone, there was wildlife populations increased. When they were 515 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: here year round, they decreased, but the fire suppression and 516 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: the stuff that they did was was obviously really beneficial 517 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: to him. And so the whole point of a lot 518 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: of people that talk about that Cabaza day Vaca book 519 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 1: by Sickly, he went all the way through He started 520 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: in Florida and went all the way to South Texas 521 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: basically all so he was burning up incredible, especially with 522 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,240 Speaker 1: the amount of swamps that we had. Yes, and and 523 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: basically he they saw very little big megafauna like they 524 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: talked about deer. They talked about seeing Native tribes that 525 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: had some puma mountain lion decor so, you know they 526 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,239 Speaker 1: were mountain lions, but they never killed one. They never 527 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: talked about bear. Yeah, it was it was pretty it 528 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: was pretty incredible. But but the whole point of it 529 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 1: was is that there there these fluctuations and we would 530 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 1: you know, you would think it would just be this 531 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: like zoo, you know, in fifteen I can't remember exactly 532 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: when the book was written, but incredible book. Wow, it 533 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: was incredible and thinking, you know, one thing he said 534 00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,200 Speaker 1: there kind of stirs a comment for me is when 535 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: the when the Native Americans who were here, there wasn't 536 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: as many animals because they were obviously killing them and 537 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: eating them and and putting pressure so driving populations away. Um. 538 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: But then you think a lot about well, what was 539 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,439 Speaker 1: probably occurring if there was no hunting, well, populations grew, 540 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,040 Speaker 1: they probably started eating a lot more. We see this 541 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: all the time in our work in present day of 542 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:27,879 Speaker 1: deer populations exploding, people not managing them. Um. Therefore young 543 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: forest uh and woody brows and plant communities are are 544 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,920 Speaker 1: over eaten um to where then you have winter kills. Uh. 545 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: If you get a really bad winter, there's no food. 546 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 1: So then nature then's the herd in a very brutal 547 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: way compared to the way we should be doing it. 548 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: And that's not documented because people weren't there, so you're 549 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,319 Speaker 1: just you're left to assume, like, well that's the way 550 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 1: populations work. Um. Yeah, it's crazy, and there wasn't that 551 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:05,959 Speaker 1: uh suburban area impacting all of this at the same time, 552 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 1: like you know, isolization of of um populations where they 553 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: can't move and micrate like buffalo. Gosh, imagine the range 554 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 1: on those things back then. Yeah, well yeah, there were 555 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,879 Speaker 1: there were buffalo all the way down into Arkansas, all 556 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 1: through the Ozarks and Missouri. And that's relevant to you 557 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,399 Speaker 1: guys because what you guys, what I hear you guys 558 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: talking about a lot is restoration of native landscapes. So 559 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,839 Speaker 1: I think probably two two people that are paying quite 560 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: a bit of attention, like they recognize that, like invasive 561 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: species are a big problem inside of our landscapes. Um. 562 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 1: I would you say, I feel like sometimes when we 563 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: talk invasive species, that we could we could take the 564 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,160 Speaker 1: people in this country that are really aware of it 565 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,840 Speaker 1: and fill up this room. Um. It seems like there's 566 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,480 Speaker 1: not a lot of people that are aware of what's 567 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: going on around. Well, talk to me about that, because 568 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: I hear you guys talk about that a ton and 569 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: and and with my background too, I mean, I recognize 570 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: invasive species and sometimes we have this love hate relationship, 571 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: like Japanese honeysuckle. Like I grew up killing deer on 572 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: Japanese honeysuckle in January and February down public lands South 573 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: in Arkansas. I never was that great at it, but 574 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,759 Speaker 1: my dad was better. So like honey stuckle to us 575 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 1: is like sweet in it, but but we also know 576 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: the overall long term benefits of that are yeah, low 577 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: compared to what you could have. So talk to me 578 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,320 Speaker 1: about invasive species. Yeah, you know that's something that you 579 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 1: say that, Um, it's it's in our position, um, and 580 00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:52,320 Speaker 1: in our what we promote is uh, you know, it 581 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: can Obviously we've had a we've got to work with 582 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:57,879 Speaker 1: a lot of landowners. But if we go down south 583 00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:59,840 Speaker 1: and we're like invasive species, we gotta get rid of 584 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: Japanese honeysuckle, and a deer hunter down there who's been 585 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 1: making his life finding patches of he's like, get out 586 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: of here. You guys don't know how to grow deer 587 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,319 Speaker 1: that they're eating the honeysuckle. Well, then we go up 588 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: north and it's like, uh, you know, we gotta get 589 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: rid of the autumn olive, and they're like, that's where 590 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,719 Speaker 1: all the deer are. You guys are foolish, Like, But 591 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 1: when it comes to longevity and the actual health of 592 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: animal populations that's actually sustainable and can continue, we have 593 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: to monitor our invasive species. And so why why are 594 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 1: there's so many invasive species that people are still connected 595 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 1: to for instance, Uh, eastern red cedar around here. Like 596 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 1: I know you guys like that's a curse word. Well 597 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:47,720 Speaker 1: I should say that. Yeah, uh, invasive species, that's not invasive. 598 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: That's a native species, native species with an aggressive tendency. 599 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 1: So if you disturb the landscape, it's gonna pop up, 600 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:59,359 Speaker 1: or don't burn or improper grazing management things like that. Yeah, 601 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: because there's the non native side, and then there are 602 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 1: just invasive species that I have that tendency to just grow, grow, 603 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: grow without that disturbance. So because they don't have a 604 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: natural predator. And so like you take like a beaver 605 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: eating like a cedar tree eating beaver, like like focuses, insects, 606 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,040 Speaker 1: things like that that are controlling that species. Those don't 607 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:29,759 Speaker 1: usually make the whatever transition from whether the species came 608 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 1: from Asia, Europe, whatever. Those natural predators are left. But 609 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: this plant is here and now it can grow seemingly uncontrolled, 610 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,920 Speaker 1: very aggressive because that predator is not here present in 611 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 1: this landscape. Take common milkweed, which any deer hunters probably 612 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: at some point use common milkweed to be a wind indicator. 613 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: It's a native species here, but if you notice some 614 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 1: years you can monitor common milkweed and be like, you know, 615 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: there's there's a couple of bugs that are all over that, 616 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: and it started to make seed pods. And those seed 617 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: pods kind of just shriveled up and it didn't make seed. 618 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: It didn't appear like those little black and orange sometimes 619 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,279 Speaker 1: solid black, but little aphids, um, little insect that are 620 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: all over them. In some years you're like, man, that 621 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 1: if it took all the milkweed, that something happened. Um. 622 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 1: But then other years you're like, man, I got a 623 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,439 Speaker 1: ton of milkweed. But then it's like as you see 624 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:29,839 Speaker 1: that population increased and you see the insects come in um, 625 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,879 Speaker 1: and it just looks a little sick. But you take 626 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: common milkweed and then go to Asia where it is 627 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 1: an invasive species on there in their part of the world, 628 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 1: and the leaves are all perfect. It makes seed because 629 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: there is no natural predator, nothing to really kind of 630 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,399 Speaker 1: keep it at bay. And that's just one example. There's 631 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,279 Speaker 1: been so many times on my farm where I've been 632 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: fighting invasive species, and through whether it's cutting or herbicide use, 633 00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 1: whatever it is, it's just like, oh my goodness, is 634 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,279 Speaker 1: this a never ending battle? Because it sure feels like 635 00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,000 Speaker 1: that and you kind of have that thought process, is 636 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: there somebody where I'm sitting here fighting a species from Asia? 637 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:12,319 Speaker 1: Is there's somebody in Asia fighting a species and they 638 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,280 Speaker 1: are like common ragweed, calmon milkweed, those are the common 639 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: invasive species. And so at least we do have that 640 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:24,359 Speaker 1: to cheer about. It's a fair trade. But like going 641 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 1: back to that common of like down south, yeah, people 642 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:31,760 Speaker 1: are promoting and hunting over and and like Japanese honey 643 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: cycle up north, a lot of people are loving the autumolive. 644 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 1: But it's like what happens like that, that's such a 645 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: small time frame to put yourself in of you going 646 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,920 Speaker 1: to the woods observing maybe a deer walking out of 647 00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 1: an automn alive thicket, but that same acre. What happens 648 00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 1: if you remove that automolive and you replace it with 649 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 1: a native shrub, Now that offers both cover the same 650 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: quality cover and then forage on top of that. Now 651 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,759 Speaker 1: you just improved acre for the species here for the 652 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: time frame. So I understand what you're saying. So like, yeah, 653 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,839 Speaker 1: like Japanese honey suckle would be benefit. I mean, there 654 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,439 Speaker 1: aren't browsing Japanese honey suckle that much when there's better 655 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 1: stuff available, they are browsing it at the peak stress periods, 656 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:16,520 Speaker 1: the only thing that's green right that time. And so 657 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 1: we would come in without knowledge and go, well, Japanese, honey, suckle. 658 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 1: The only reason these deer survived, man mindset. Remember I said, okay, man, fire, good, 659 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,040 Speaker 1: more fire. It's like, oh, Japanese honey suckle good Japanese, 660 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:33,680 Speaker 1: my dear. But if you took that what I what 661 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,840 Speaker 1: I'm hearing you say, Matt, is if you took that 662 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,560 Speaker 1: five acres and improved it with a native vegetation, that 663 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,759 Speaker 1: would become valuable year round for the deer. They may 664 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:48,440 Speaker 1: not all thirty deer on your you know, property, may 665 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 1: not be in that one half acre, and that's what 666 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 1: that's the that's that's then the perception that this is valuable. Well, yeah, 667 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,680 Speaker 1: you might spread them out a little bit. We have 668 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 1: to look at and we've fight this quite a bit, 669 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,880 Speaker 1: but we have to look at population and landscape level, 670 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,239 Speaker 1: not just we did it here on your property, not 671 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,160 Speaker 1: just your seven acres or not just your forty acres. 672 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: We gotta look at like the whole neighborhood and say, 673 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 1: what's what does this population this, dear, population need, not 674 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: that individual target buck, Like, what what does he need? 675 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,239 Speaker 1: Does he need this food plot? I don't know. We 676 00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 1: gotta look at the whole landscape and say we got 677 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,840 Speaker 1: to improve it. So if it means taking away Japanese 678 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,759 Speaker 1: honda cuckle from this big patch and improving it, well 679 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,520 Speaker 1: that's what we need to do. How many native species 680 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:41,279 Speaker 1: invasive species would be? Like if you just like on 681 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:45,879 Speaker 1: my property, would you say the species are invasive? Mm hmm, 682 00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,440 Speaker 1: I really on your property, on any property. I'm just 683 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,800 Speaker 1: trying to get it out because it varies so greatly, 684 00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:56,080 Speaker 1: so it depends on the For here, I really only 685 00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: my mind probably only wraps around but chiney cuckle. There's 686 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: multi floor rose. Yeah, I guess that's best rescue, which 687 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,319 Speaker 1: I don't know if I would technically call it an 688 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,600 Speaker 1: invasive um. Some people, You know, if you say invasive 689 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,719 Speaker 1: around a bunch of cattle guys and say fescue, you 690 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: probably get you're not walking your face re structured. Um. 691 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,239 Speaker 1: But now, but I mean, I guess the answer to 692 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:26,000 Speaker 1: your question, Yeah, it's a non native species and for 693 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 1: these purposes of what I mean, it didn't come from here, 694 00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:35,000 Speaker 1: you know, correct? Yeah, the blow for the cattlemanvescue is 695 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:36,959 Speaker 1: terrible if we're looking at it from a wildlife stand 696 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 1: and it's really not great if we look at it 697 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:43,560 Speaker 1: from a cattle standpoint. It's terrible because we drove through 698 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,880 Speaker 1: miles and miles of brown, yellowish colored fields. It's a 699 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,800 Speaker 1: cool season grass trying to survive the summer heat. It 700 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,359 Speaker 1: doesn't stand a chance. It's been hot and dry, um 701 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:59,120 Speaker 1: and so as on average. I'll play your game with 702 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,560 Speaker 1: the question I get us when it comes to overall 703 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,439 Speaker 1: working all these properties across the country, UM and trying 704 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 1: to monitor uh, the amount of let's just say, non 705 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,000 Speaker 1: native versus invasive invasive. It would probably be mind blowing 706 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,520 Speaker 1: for a lot of people to realize how much of 707 00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,040 Speaker 1: their property is colonized by a non native species, whether 708 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,600 Speaker 1: it be uh smooth brome reads, canary, tall fescue. I mean, 709 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,640 Speaker 1: that's just listening some of our the grasses um or 710 00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: bermuda grass down south or bahaa grass um. And then 711 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,520 Speaker 1: you go into the shrubs autumala bush, honeysuckle, uh, Chinese 712 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:40,920 Speaker 1: privet um. Then you can go into trees, yeah, vines, 713 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,520 Speaker 1: English ivy, oriental, bittersweet. I mean, the list goes on 714 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,080 Speaker 1: and on and on from thesteria Vinco Vinca minor. Do 715 00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,120 Speaker 1: y'all see that that sounds familiar? What's the common name? 716 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, Yeah, may not minor, maybe Vinca major 717 00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,440 Speaker 1: that I've got some And I think it was a 718 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 1: landscape cover cross that I see in the woods. You're 719 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:09,040 Speaker 1: a landscaping guy, so yeah, there you know how awful 720 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:13,160 Speaker 1: it is in the in the landscaping company. Barberry. That's 721 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,680 Speaker 1: a bastall one of those that y'all posted that was 722 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,840 Speaker 1: out in the woods. Yeah, Crimson, Crimson, red Barberry or 723 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:22,560 Speaker 1: something like dwarf Barberry is a big one. Like we 724 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,000 Speaker 1: drove by trying to remember where I saw it. It 725 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:27,600 Speaker 1: was a new church right up to where we're at, 726 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,480 Speaker 1: um that they had just built the church during all 727 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,240 Speaker 1: this COVID nineteen stuff. And then all of a sudden 728 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 1: you see out in front and there's like twenty Barberry 729 00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:41,000 Speaker 1: trees are shrubs planted, and I'm like, what, how, why 730 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,800 Speaker 1: do we have to repeat history? It's a popular landscape plant. 731 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,839 Speaker 1: You ever seen one outside of the landscape bed though? 732 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,479 Speaker 1: And here's the thing. This is where because if you look, 733 00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,840 Speaker 1: it was first introduced and using landscaping in the East Coast, 734 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,160 Speaker 1: so you have to have a like a seed source, 735 00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:01,440 Speaker 1: and so out there that's where you have it. A 736 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:05,680 Speaker 1: lot here is just starting to be used in landscaping 737 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,759 Speaker 1: on a on a pretty regular basis. So I mean, 738 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 1: I hate to look in our magic eight ball and say, 739 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,080 Speaker 1: what's the future looked like, but I would imagine based 740 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,040 Speaker 1: on the planting rate that we're starting to see it 741 00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:22,000 Speaker 1: on the landscape in residential and commercial properties will probably 742 00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:26,560 Speaker 1: start seeing it. For instance, For as an example, the 743 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,399 Speaker 1: one of the one of the worst um infestations I've 744 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:34,160 Speaker 1: seen of Japanese barbary specifically was right on the New 745 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:38,279 Speaker 1: York Pennsylvania border. We're talking the middle of nowhere. I 746 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:43,080 Speaker 1: mean small, small, small town, not a big intersection, traffic area, 747 00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:47,319 Speaker 1: not and we're middle of four acres. It's everywhere through 748 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,319 Speaker 1: the timber. How did it get here? It doesn't matter 749 00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,680 Speaker 1: because it's there. But yeah, absolutely, and we're again middle 750 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,400 Speaker 1: of nowhere, north central Pennsylvanias you've worked other properties in 751 00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,279 Speaker 1: central Pennsylvania that just crazy infested. It's almost like you know, 752 00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:02,960 Speaker 1: when you go to the beach with a family and 753 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,799 Speaker 1: you head home they're saying, still everywhere, and then months 754 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,439 Speaker 1: later you're still at your house, states and states away 755 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,160 Speaker 1: and you still find that sand. It's like the seed source, 756 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:16,359 Speaker 1: like you know, it has to trickle out and rush 757 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:21,880 Speaker 1: talking equipment for uh skidders, dozers. It travels on that stuff. Boots, 758 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:23,520 Speaker 1: you know, there's like a lot of these stuff. You know, 759 00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:29,960 Speaker 1: we'll stick to animals high and for said they said 760 00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:33,680 Speaker 1: they worked at twenty seven states since we washed the 761 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:41,719 Speaker 1: bower washer. Boy always make the w It's like we 762 00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:43,799 Speaker 1: always make that joke. You go out west to hunt elk. 763 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:45,719 Speaker 1: It's like, well, let's make sure we wash our boots off. 764 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:47,439 Speaker 1: I don't want to bring you that stuff back. Yeah, 765 00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,880 Speaker 1: that's probably not a joke. But it's the amount of 766 00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:55,759 Speaker 1: traffic that moves around this place in the country. That's 767 00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:57,360 Speaker 1: how it gets moved. And you don't I mean, so 768 00:47:57,719 --> 00:47:59,959 Speaker 1: the seeds, well, most of this stuff is so small. 769 00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:04,400 Speaker 1: It's just think of the seed bank. I don't know 770 00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:08,480 Speaker 1: a lot about the seed bank, but it's it is 771 00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:12,520 Speaker 1: absolutely fascinating that you could take a chunk of soil 772 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,239 Speaker 1: from out in my yard that has been you know, 773 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,719 Speaker 1: in it was my front yard would have been a 774 00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:23,680 Speaker 1: blueberry and kind of like truck farm from the forties 775 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,960 Speaker 1: through the sixties and maybe even seventies, and so you 776 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,640 Speaker 1: know it's in agriculture for around here anyway. You know, 777 00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:33,440 Speaker 1: you could take a block of that soil and go 778 00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:38,280 Speaker 1: planet and and probably find an incredible amount of native 779 00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,680 Speaker 1: stuff inside of it that's been dormant in that in 780 00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,279 Speaker 1: that ground for so long. You know what strikes me 781 00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,800 Speaker 1: about all that's even talking about invasive species and stuff 782 00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:52,520 Speaker 1: is the resiliency and the energy and the life inside 783 00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:57,560 Speaker 1: of nature. I mean, it's like incredible. I mean that 784 00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:02,120 Speaker 1: though could like all like they were as we are, 785 00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:06,200 Speaker 1: or you go across so many areas that are like, oh, 786 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,759 Speaker 1: Man's that's such let's say generally poor quality habitat, like 787 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,200 Speaker 1: that's just bad man. But with some of the right 788 00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,600 Speaker 1: practices and disturbances, the things that come back. It's such 789 00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:20,239 Speaker 1: a short time frame. It is powerful stuff, and it's 790 00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,040 Speaker 1: incredible to see, like there's so much life if we 791 00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,360 Speaker 1: just let it breathe, if we just remove the bad 792 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:31,600 Speaker 1: add sunlight, get a little bit of rain. Most times 793 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,840 Speaker 1: it's incredible. With no fertilizer, you don't have to plant 794 00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:36,960 Speaker 1: the seed. It's just like the way God designed it 795 00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:41,960 Speaker 1: to just bro just to list, just just work. Like 796 00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,400 Speaker 1: we did a on a property that we manage um 797 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,440 Speaker 1: right next to my family farm. It was you know, 798 00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:53,840 Speaker 1: it's a west mainly west southwest facing slope and crumby 799 00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:58,279 Speaker 1: timber wasn't great, you know, real rocky, very barely any 800 00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,920 Speaker 1: plants growing in the other story not stick not not 801 00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,719 Speaker 1: great quality. And and so we manage a lot. A 802 00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,720 Speaker 1: lot of our landowners managed for dear that's the focus, 803 00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,839 Speaker 1: or quail or turkeys. But if they've hired us, they've 804 00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,960 Speaker 1: already probably gone to the holistic mindset where they're like, 805 00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,120 Speaker 1: I don't want to do anything that's detrimental to pollinators 806 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,880 Speaker 1: or um to my forest, to my to the water quality, 807 00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:26,080 Speaker 1: make this land as healthy as it can be, generally 808 00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,320 Speaker 1: knowing that that's going to bring in more dear or 809 00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,840 Speaker 1: bigger deer. And so we're like, okay, this is not 810 00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:36,160 Speaker 1: good for pollinators, not good for the birds. Really it's 811 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:41,640 Speaker 1: pretty much just setting idle and somebody's paying taxes on it. Um. 812 00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,320 Speaker 1: And so what we did was we went in and 813 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,440 Speaker 1: we we did a logging operation. They cut some timber 814 00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,200 Speaker 1: as much as they could find um and really the 815 00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:55,000 Speaker 1: goal was to completely give it a facelift and just 816 00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,359 Speaker 1: change it because where it's at was bad. Let's make 817 00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,719 Speaker 1: it good. And so to real quick the direction. If 818 00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:04,879 Speaker 1: you hadn't done anything, it wasn't really getting better by itself. Yeah, 819 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:08,319 Speaker 1: it was just just the cake trees we're gonna they 820 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,800 Speaker 1: were all too densely growing, so they were not healthy. 821 00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:15,680 Speaker 1: So that made them more susceptible to disease or storm 822 00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,640 Speaker 1: or or whatever the case may be, to where we 823 00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:20,239 Speaker 1: were going to have to just wait on nature to 824 00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,640 Speaker 1: either kill it with the disease, blow it over with 825 00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:27,600 Speaker 1: a storm, some kind of disturbance, or a fire. And 826 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,160 Speaker 1: uh so we decided to speed that process up and 827 00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:33,480 Speaker 1: do what God called us to do. Be a gamekeeper, 828 00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,560 Speaker 1: be a land manager, be a caretaker. And so what 829 00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,360 Speaker 1: we did was we cut trees. We opened up that canopy, 830 00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:44,880 Speaker 1: and then we went back in with chainsaws cut. Because 831 00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,840 Speaker 1: what's most timber operations, they come in it's almost like 832 00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:50,880 Speaker 1: picture because most people picture a garden. You go in, 833 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,360 Speaker 1: you harvest your crops, your corn, your soybeans or I 834 00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:58,480 Speaker 1: guess you're not growing soybeans in your garden vegetables, and 835 00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,600 Speaker 1: then you just leave even idol and the weeds grow up. Well, 836 00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:05,120 Speaker 1: then they make seed and then that's what's growing back 837 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,560 Speaker 1: until you start this generation of weeds. And so what 838 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:11,080 Speaker 1: we did was we cut it. Now, we we cut 839 00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:13,080 Speaker 1: a lot of crop. Now we have to cut the 840 00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:17,160 Speaker 1: weeds to and release the next generation of crop um. 841 00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,280 Speaker 1: And so when we thinned it and then we started 842 00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,920 Speaker 1: burning it, we had big blue stem growing up that 843 00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:25,719 Speaker 1: had a twelve inch crown at the you know, at 844 00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:28,280 Speaker 1: the base of the ground where it had been sitting 845 00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:33,400 Speaker 1: there just trying to survive. One or two sprigs we 846 00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,000 Speaker 1: may have seen on that site when it was roughly 847 00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:40,279 Speaker 1: close canopy timber. Now we're talking it's full crowns six 848 00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:45,239 Speaker 1: on this property. It would have been in the native range. 849 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,879 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I hear. I hear. Big blue stem 850 00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:52,600 Speaker 1: used like almost like the crown jewel of Southeastern like 851 00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,960 Speaker 1: Southeastern land management. So so I think that there's a big, 852 00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:03,399 Speaker 1: big miss like well, like most people were gonna generalize here, 853 00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,440 Speaker 1: love to manage for deer, and so they're like, all 854 00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:12,040 Speaker 1: I want is you know this CRP grass, I want 855 00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,560 Speaker 1: switch grass, indian grass, big blue stem, want tall grass 856 00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,520 Speaker 1: does over Here's the thing. Deer don't eat grass. So 857 00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:22,919 Speaker 1: all you have then is cover. So don't get me wrong, 858 00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:26,080 Speaker 1: it's a native type of cover. But they're not eating it. 859 00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:27,520 Speaker 1: So what are they gonna eat? I don't want to 860 00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,360 Speaker 1: hold property. Are don't want to property dominated and just 861 00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,600 Speaker 1: a grass, don't I mean? I know they down there 862 00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:37,640 Speaker 1: in the gut and they eat some like they may 863 00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:41,040 Speaker 1: eat um. You know, wheat is a is a grass. 864 00:53:41,080 --> 00:53:43,480 Speaker 1: I think it's about five percent of their diet is 865 00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:48,200 Speaker 1: comprised of grass, but it's not very very they're they're 866 00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:55,480 Speaker 1: they're a woodland animals. What grows in woodlands typically broadlis 867 00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:59,919 Speaker 1: because it's a mixture of such and so the leaf 868 00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,520 Speaker 1: itself is is wider to capture more sunlight. Where grasses 869 00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:05,839 Speaker 1: you find them in pretty much open areas where they're 870 00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,440 Speaker 1: long and slender. When they get three sixty son, well 871 00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:12,080 Speaker 1: they're gonna forage on something that is there woodland species. 872 00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:15,680 Speaker 1: So if you know a lot of our I mean 873 00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:17,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people, you know, the eastern decisionous forest 874 00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:21,040 Speaker 1: takes up probably the majority or well, let me let 875 00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:24,600 Speaker 1: me say close canopy forest would probably be the majority 876 00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:28,880 Speaker 1: of the North American continent. Now yeah, yeah, okay, So 877 00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:33,279 Speaker 1: so what would you in general like if if a 878 00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:38,880 Speaker 1: guy had a property, just average property, cut some timber, 879 00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:42,400 Speaker 1: let some sunlight get down to the forest floor. What 880 00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:45,320 Speaker 1: else would you tell him? I would say, manage with 881 00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:49,560 Speaker 1: the natural disturbance. Um Man, you asked a question right 882 00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:51,759 Speaker 1: there that would excite me not to say I want 883 00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:53,879 Speaker 1: this position. I said, big Blue sto him, like five 884 00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:56,600 Speaker 1: minutes ago. He's got to come out of his chair 885 00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:01,360 Speaker 1: species And you guys gave me a plenty plenty of 886 00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:07,680 Speaker 1: room to wave my arms and your podcast in right now. 887 00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:11,759 Speaker 1: So when when we look at our landscape now or 888 00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,440 Speaker 1: our country and it is closed canopy forest, if if 889 00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,080 Speaker 1: for the most part you see that, um, there's some 890 00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:21,120 Speaker 1: major red flags of that, but there's some major possibilities 891 00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:25,360 Speaker 1: I see of of the opportunity to restore a healthy 892 00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:29,200 Speaker 1: forest by doing some cutting. First thing I would probably 893 00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:33,840 Speaker 1: do is consult with a local forest or UM and 894 00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:37,120 Speaker 1: tell them the overall goal is a healthy forest for 895 00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:41,239 Speaker 1: not just the trees itself, but the wildlife. I think 896 00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,399 Speaker 1: that gets blurred a little bit of going I want 897 00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,239 Speaker 1: a healthy forest, Well, it looks a little bit more 898 00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:49,040 Speaker 1: close canopy than the wildlife may want. UM. So I 899 00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:52,799 Speaker 1: would like to see some active management UM to where 900 00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:55,560 Speaker 1: we are cutting a little bit of timber. We are 901 00:55:56,000 --> 00:56:00,000 Speaker 1: using that money to hopefully manage it. Give some employee, 902 00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:04,560 Speaker 1: hire some employees to use prescribe fire if that's what 903 00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:09,360 Speaker 1: that site needs. Um, if it's if it's not supposed 904 00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,560 Speaker 1: to be a force. Sometimes we get into glades where 905 00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:13,480 Speaker 1: it's like this is growing up in trees that we 906 00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,160 Speaker 1: don't even need. Now, most likely those trees aren't ones 907 00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:18,400 Speaker 1: that are gonna make any kind of timber income, but 908 00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:20,719 Speaker 1: we need to cut those burn it. Let's bring in 909 00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:24,440 Speaker 1: some grazing animals. Let's let's get some disturbance here. Um. 910 00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:29,680 Speaker 1: What you typically don't see any more happening Mississippi in 911 00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:35,120 Speaker 1: east is the middle ground. You typically have pastures or 912 00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:39,440 Speaker 1: crop lands, so open fields either canning crops or cool 913 00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:43,960 Speaker 1: season non ave pastures, or you have a closed canopy timber. 914 00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:48,640 Speaker 1: There's nothing on a spectrum in between that. On your 915 00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:51,720 Speaker 1: On You Guys podcast, one time I heard it described 916 00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:53,440 Speaker 1: really well, it wasn't It was one of your guests 917 00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:59,080 Speaker 1: and he described, I'm sorry, guys, I could have just 918 00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,080 Speaker 1: slided and would have been like, yeah, I said that, 919 00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,000 Speaker 1: now you probably have said it. But his analogy was like, 920 00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:10,200 Speaker 1: like rating vegetation on a scale of one to ten, 921 00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:14,480 Speaker 1: and a one would be like a fresh cut bermuda 922 00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,440 Speaker 1: lawn on a golf course, and a tin would be 923 00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:23,400 Speaker 1: a negative. Yeah, a tin would be a closed canopy 924 00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:27,600 Speaker 1: like full scale forest. And he said, we have a 925 00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:31,160 Speaker 1: lot of ones and tens and not a lot of fives, 926 00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,560 Speaker 1: like so that the gradient would be you know, like, 927 00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:38,880 Speaker 1: is there how much of your property is grassland with 928 00:57:39,240 --> 00:57:45,080 Speaker 1: mid level shrubs, you know, like successionary successful habitat, Yeah, 929 00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:49,120 Speaker 1: is in such a decline. It's like, imagine, I can't 930 00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:52,600 Speaker 1: even imagine a landscape where let's just say you asked 931 00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:58,080 Speaker 1: about a percentage let's just say ten of the country's 932 00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:00,200 Speaker 1: invasive species. I don't I don't know if that's or not, 933 00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:05,080 Speaker 1: But just imagine if that same tim per cent was 934 00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:10,000 Speaker 1: early successional habitat, and how much better it would be, 935 00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:14,360 Speaker 1: not just for dear quail, but also pollinators, which is 936 00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,480 Speaker 1: a big buzz word right now, and not if you 937 00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:19,120 Speaker 1: just look down the landscape right now and you look 938 00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:23,280 Speaker 1: at let's just say Missouri and east because out west, 939 00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:27,480 Speaker 1: you know, Oklahoma even has some pretty good native landscape still, um, 940 00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,840 Speaker 1: probably because we haven't moved enough of us, haven't moved 941 00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:33,280 Speaker 1: out there to completely destroy it. Yet. But you go 942 00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:37,400 Speaker 1: Missouri and east and we have a majority of the 943 00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:41,680 Speaker 1: open landscape is either uh, we've got of course, residential areas, 944 00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:46,080 Speaker 1: town cities. Then you go into crops or pastures, which 945 00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:49,160 Speaker 1: for the most part most cattle operations are non native 946 00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:54,480 Speaker 1: dominated grasses. So those two are both non natives um 947 00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:57,120 Speaker 1: and aren't great for wildlife. Then you go into the 948 00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:02,520 Speaker 1: forest and you have close can be unmanaged forests um. 949 00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,680 Speaker 1: And then you go down the south and you go 950 00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:10,280 Speaker 1: into pine plantations where it's kind of monoculture. And and 951 00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:15,000 Speaker 1: then now we go, well, how come there are wildlife anymore? 952 00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:17,760 Speaker 1: It's that's a depressing way to look at it, because 953 00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:22,640 Speaker 1: nothing that they adapted with over years and years and 954 00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:25,320 Speaker 1: years is that way anymore. I would I would say 955 00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:30,560 Speaker 1: that's probably pretty confidently that in many places, or let's 956 00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:34,880 Speaker 1: say regions of the country or your state, a lot 957 00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:39,080 Speaker 1: of wildlife populations are surviving, they're not thriving. I think 958 00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:41,720 Speaker 1: that we see some properties that are doing a lot 959 00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,400 Speaker 1: of good things, or a neighborhood or a coop is 960 00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,960 Speaker 1: where the wildlife can thrive, and that's where we see 961 00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:51,440 Speaker 1: some of the best either populations or individuals, whether it's great, 962 00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:55,640 Speaker 1: you know, a giant deer um. But in many of 963 00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:59,640 Speaker 1: the places we're simply just seeing wildlife survives. They're just 964 01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:04,000 Speaker 1: and that's a little bit surprising, I guess because in 965 01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:07,040 Speaker 1: some ways, because like around here we don't have a 966 01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:12,320 Speaker 1: really thick populate, well there here we're running into a 967 01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:17,320 Speaker 1: lot of problems already, Like maybe a thick deer population 968 01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:19,720 Speaker 1: isn't what we want. But generally that's what people would think, 969 01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:24,520 Speaker 1: like most deer haunters would be like a indicator of 970 01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:27,080 Speaker 1: how good the habitat is and how good deer doing 971 01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:30,439 Speaker 1: is how many deer we have. But actually that's wrong. 972 01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:32,760 Speaker 1: I would say this go back to that same analogy 973 01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:36,880 Speaker 1: of the habitat of the one to the ten ratio. 974 01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:40,360 Speaker 1: If you have a one or a very low population 975 01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:42,200 Speaker 1: when comes to deer, you don't have a lot of 976 01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:46,560 Speaker 1: individuals to determine how good or healthy environment is, so 977 01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:48,480 Speaker 1: you just have a lesson of population. If you have 978 01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:52,280 Speaker 1: too many that you have a stressful environment where none 979 01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:54,240 Speaker 1: of them can reach potential. But if you're in the 980 01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:57,000 Speaker 1: middle at that five range, you have a healthy balance 981 01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:00,320 Speaker 1: of I've got enough deer individuals on the landscape where 982 01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:02,560 Speaker 1: I can grow get some to an age, but then 983 01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:04,840 Speaker 1: there's not too many of them at their carrying capacity 984 01:01:04,880 --> 01:01:07,400 Speaker 1: where they can all then still reach their full potential. 985 01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:09,680 Speaker 1: So it's a happy medium between all for the deer 986 01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:13,560 Speaker 1: hunters out there, you know you think about are part 987 01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:17,640 Speaker 1: of the world is not known for growing giant deer, 988 01:01:18,040 --> 01:01:21,360 Speaker 1: but it's not known for really it's not. It's not 989 01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:24,800 Speaker 1: southern Iowa or West Illinois that everybody's talked about. We 990 01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:27,240 Speaker 1: have a lot more trees and most of our force 991 01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:29,160 Speaker 1: is not managed, so we just don't have as much 992 01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:32,520 Speaker 1: food availability. Um, the land use is different, and so 993 01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:36,160 Speaker 1: we just don't have that many deer that show up. 994 01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:40,360 Speaker 1: But you get you take a site or a coop, 995 01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:43,680 Speaker 1: a decent track of ground, you really start managing and 996 01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:47,400 Speaker 1: really increasing the quality of the habitat. You start seeing 997 01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:50,200 Speaker 1: big deer show up. But then what you also start 998 01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:53,520 Speaker 1: seeing as dose with twins, dose with triplets, and you 999 01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:56,400 Speaker 1: see that population start blowing up. And then over of 1000 01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:58,880 Speaker 1: course the time you'll see those giant deer that you've 1001 01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,720 Speaker 1: had faye away and start going back down to what 1002 01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:04,680 Speaker 1: you had before. But you just have a lot more deer, 1003 01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:09,360 Speaker 1: social stress, food, availability has changed, And so if you 1004 01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:12,800 Speaker 1: really are shooting for giant deer, the biggest deer you 1005 01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:15,600 Speaker 1: can have on your or in your neighborhood, you've got 1006 01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:18,240 Speaker 1: to get the habitat at max level where it's just 1007 01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:21,120 Speaker 1: food year round, and you have to keep that dear 1008 01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:25,440 Speaker 1: population below holding capacity. That way, those deer have the 1009 01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:29,520 Speaker 1: amount of nu transcription we've seen have been on a 1010 01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:32,480 Speaker 1: bunch of different places, some that are like, let's just 1011 01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:35,640 Speaker 1: say zero or one when it comes to the quality habitant. 1012 01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:37,920 Speaker 1: We've been on some sites that are seven and eight. 1013 01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:41,560 Speaker 1: It's like, man, this stuff is good, man, this neighborhood's rocking. 1014 01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:46,520 Speaker 1: But at the same time, most places have way too 1015 01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:49,200 Speaker 1: many deer, and you're like, you're you could they could 1016 01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:52,800 Speaker 1: be doing a lot better. Absolutely, And I guess that 1017 01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:56,920 Speaker 1: that's just that's the point that I'm getting, as like, 1018 01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:00,280 Speaker 1: we evaluate deer so often just about how how many 1019 01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:04,040 Speaker 1: there are, I mean, and so you don't think about, 1020 01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,360 Speaker 1: like I I don't think about this area having like 1021 01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:10,160 Speaker 1: really poor habitat. I mean I do. I guess I'm 1022 01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:12,480 Speaker 1: a little bit I mean, I've been educated a little 1023 01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:15,640 Speaker 1: bit about, you know, how to improve habitat and stuff. 1024 01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:18,680 Speaker 1: I mean most people wouldn't, like the landowners that I 1025 01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:21,760 Speaker 1: hunt on, like they're just like, man, we got lots 1026 01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,760 Speaker 1: of deer. Oh yeah, you know, you don't know what 1027 01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:28,640 Speaker 1: you don't know, Like just people for instance, just you know, 1028 01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:33,600 Speaker 1: we've worked around home. We actually do more work probably 1029 01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:36,160 Speaker 1: away from home than we do at home, because nobody's 1030 01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:38,560 Speaker 1: really setting out thinking they can grow a two deer 1031 01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:42,240 Speaker 1: in the ozarks um. And but we deal with our 1032 01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:44,960 Speaker 1: local neighbors and it's just like, so what do you 1033 01:03:45,040 --> 01:03:47,880 Speaker 1: do you work with landoarders who we'll shoot. What we're 1034 01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:51,280 Speaker 1: doing here is great, We've got plenty of deer. It's like, no, no, 1035 01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:53,760 Speaker 1: we don't. It could be so much better. And I 1036 01:03:53,840 --> 01:04:00,400 Speaker 1: think that so many people in any given region likely 1037 01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:06,360 Speaker 1: underestimated their region itself. It's like I've been here, I've 1038 01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:10,200 Speaker 1: observed this for ten years. It's like this is status quo. Well, 1039 01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:14,320 Speaker 1: if something status quo, then you don't have again disturbances 1040 01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:18,680 Speaker 1: in that environment to change, manipulate, improve, Therefore the wildlife 1041 01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:21,919 Speaker 1: will benefit from it. So status quo is like bad 1042 01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:25,919 Speaker 1: from where we come from, Like every region there, there's 1043 01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:29,760 Speaker 1: there's not a place I can like that We've been 1044 01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:33,760 Speaker 1: to them, like yikes, man, Just whether that's the native 1045 01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:38,000 Speaker 1: vegetation that's that's there or um that can be there 1046 01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:42,280 Speaker 1: is subpar most places we go to. It's all there. 1047 01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:45,920 Speaker 1: It just needs that massive facelift and then it will 1048 01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:48,480 Speaker 1: it will be that potential where and you can you 1049 01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:51,240 Speaker 1: can grow and kill doing a crocketeer. What's the what's 1050 01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:55,800 Speaker 1: the what's the temperature? I mean, obviously your your your 1051 01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:58,280 Speaker 1: business is doing well. So there's people that are willing 1052 01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:01,640 Speaker 1: to talk about these things things and implement these strategies. 1053 01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:05,800 Speaker 1: What would you say the temperature of the you know, 1054 01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:09,040 Speaker 1: at least this part of the country is for the 1055 01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:12,280 Speaker 1: type of wildlife management that you guys are talking about. 1056 01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:18,480 Speaker 1: It pretty high just north North America. Yeah, you guys 1057 01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:20,840 Speaker 1: aren't being limited to anyway. I think it's growing. I 1058 01:05:21,200 --> 01:05:25,800 Speaker 1: I definitely think that we U our mindset is growing. Um. 1059 01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:29,920 Speaker 1: People are being more aware of what's happening to our land. UM. 1060 01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:34,520 Speaker 1: I think people are starting to understand that you can't 1061 01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:40,040 Speaker 1: take a forest and say they're forest. Go be a forest, 1062 01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:41,920 Speaker 1: and you're gonna be a forest in a hundred years 1063 01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:46,480 Speaker 1: that's still healthy. We can't do that. The preservation mindset, 1064 01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:49,520 Speaker 1: in my opinion, is not something that we can do 1065 01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:52,880 Speaker 1: in a lot of places because of invasive species. Um 1066 01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:55,520 Speaker 1: and so I think there's people who are really keying 1067 01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:59,000 Speaker 1: on on native landscaping. There's companies out there that are 1068 01:05:59,040 --> 01:06:02,200 Speaker 1: really starting to promote they're planting. I see I see 1069 01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:05,240 Speaker 1: more echinasa planted in landscapes now than I ever have. 1070 01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:08,040 Speaker 1: And people are starting to become aware of purple tone 1071 01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:12,080 Speaker 1: there you go. Yeah, and uh, which is endemic to 1072 01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:14,320 Speaker 1: the ozarks. There you go. Started here, we saw a 1073 01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:18,320 Speaker 1: lot of it growing in on the roadways coming down here. Um, 1074 01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:20,680 Speaker 1: I saw a lot of other bad stuff coming down through. 1075 01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:24,880 Speaker 1: Don't even say what it was, don't don't even propagate it. 1076 01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:27,760 Speaker 1: Just people will go out. Whatever you'd say that's bad, 1077 01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:30,120 Speaker 1: people will go out and get it. And planet take 1078 01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:38,400 Speaker 1: a guess that was there that's cigarettes and friendly kids. Yeah. 1079 01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:41,800 Speaker 1: Um and so yeah, it's definitely growing. There's a lot 1080 01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:44,400 Speaker 1: of people that are like, I want clean I want 1081 01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:47,200 Speaker 1: a healthy landscape, I want clean water, I want clean air. 1082 01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:49,440 Speaker 1: I want to make I want to feel like I'm 1083 01:06:49,480 --> 01:06:53,640 Speaker 1: being a part of a of a solid movement that's worthwhile. 1084 01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:56,160 Speaker 1: I think that's death that we're definitely seen, that we're 1085 01:06:56,160 --> 01:07:00,120 Speaker 1: seeing you know, people like the reginative agriculture model and 1086 01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:04,680 Speaker 1: just understanding cattle and grazing in the in the cattle 1087 01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:08,919 Speaker 1: are a tool essentially if if you cattles or mules, Yeah, 1088 01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:12,840 Speaker 1: can you'all implement mules into more of your stuff? Maybe? 1089 01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:18,120 Speaker 1: Maybe YEA is a lot different than that track the 1090 01:07:18,160 --> 01:07:21,880 Speaker 1: logs out that we cut. Like horses, horses grays differently 1091 01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:25,880 Speaker 1: than cattle. Um, they do. Mules grays different than horses. Okay, 1092 01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:29,200 Speaker 1: how so well they're they're they're known for being less selective, 1093 01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:33,720 Speaker 1: so they could be good at weed controls if they 1094 01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:37,200 Speaker 1: there's the thing. If you can train a mule to 1095 01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:41,240 Speaker 1: select sire celestidsa you're hired and dude, you don't even 1096 01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:44,560 Speaker 1: need to mazin. We got a full time job for you. 1097 01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:49,400 Speaker 1: Just turn loose this mule, magic mule. Yeah. Because like horses, 1098 01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:52,920 Speaker 1: they eat grass and keep returning. Ultimately they'll pull it 1099 01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:56,600 Speaker 1: up by the roots that they cattle. You know, if 1100 01:07:56,600 --> 01:08:00,959 Speaker 1: they're trained and used appropriately, they're not as active. They'll 1101 01:08:01,080 --> 01:08:04,800 Speaker 1: eat almost anything. Even we've seen cows on good operations 1102 01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:08,120 Speaker 1: eat honey locusts in a young form. You wouldn't think 1103 01:08:08,160 --> 01:08:11,360 Speaker 1: they would, but they hammer it um and so, And 1104 01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:13,840 Speaker 1: it's all the way that you use that tool. If 1105 01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:17,360 Speaker 1: you're rotating, managing them, keeping them on there, you're around, 1106 01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:20,360 Speaker 1: it's not doing any good. That's the thing. When we say, 1107 01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:25,640 Speaker 1: like the government U S. Force Service, I used them 1108 01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:28,840 Speaker 1: as an example. They used to have grazing rights on 1109 01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:32,920 Speaker 1: a lot of the Ozark reagion. The glades would get grazed. Um. 1110 01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:39,400 Speaker 1: But at some point along the way the sixties, seventies, eighties, 1111 01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:44,880 Speaker 1: management was the grazing. Management wasn't doing what was healthy 1112 01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:48,639 Speaker 1: to the land over grazing was occurring. It wasn't managed. 1113 01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:53,720 Speaker 1: It was just being grazed, and so they pulled out. 1114 01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:57,479 Speaker 1: They pulled out the grazing. So now the landscapes not 1115 01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:02,400 Speaker 1: getting grazed. And it's like most people picture when we 1116 01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:04,880 Speaker 1: say grazy and they think over grace. Well, wile if 1117 01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:07,040 Speaker 1: don't like that, well, of course not we would agree 1118 01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:09,840 Speaker 1: with that. But if you use them correctly, they're more 1119 01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:16,200 Speaker 1: beneficial wildlife than not having the grazing occasionally leaving residual grass. 1120 01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:18,840 Speaker 1: I mean the cycles and and all the things that 1121 01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:21,320 Speaker 1: we can go into. I mean, it's it's crazy to think. 1122 01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:24,160 Speaker 1: Once you once you realize that and learn that like 1123 01:09:24,360 --> 01:09:29,280 Speaker 1: man cattle kind of really important to that and what 1124 01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:32,720 Speaker 1: I see, you know, I kind of try to we 1125 01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:37,800 Speaker 1: manage with a business mindset, like any business that just 1126 01:09:38,040 --> 01:09:41,680 Speaker 1: constantly loses money goes broke, right, And there's a lot 1127 01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:44,960 Speaker 1: of landscapes that our businesses that are just going to 1128 01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:48,880 Speaker 1: continue to go broke. And when I say cutting trees, 1129 01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:51,479 Speaker 1: a lot of people are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 1130 01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:55,560 Speaker 1: I know to change to to fight climate change or 1131 01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:58,479 Speaker 1: two to make a healthy landscape, I need to be 1132 01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:01,680 Speaker 1: planting trees and making health trees. Well, there's a whole 1133 01:10:01,760 --> 01:10:04,640 Speaker 1: lot of there's oftentimes more things that go on than 1134 01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:07,680 Speaker 1: than just that one phrase. It's well and it's we 1135 01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:10,680 Speaker 1: know this world is way more complex. You can't You're 1136 01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:12,840 Speaker 1: not gonna be able to change something by planting some trees. 1137 01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:16,599 Speaker 1: Just trees go back to diversity. Grasses are super super 1138 01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:20,880 Speaker 1: important to water infiltration, carbon city questration. It's completely different, 1139 01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:24,320 Speaker 1: but you need all of them at the right mixture 1140 01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:26,880 Speaker 1: to make something. So cutting trees you can make money. 1141 01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:29,800 Speaker 1: Cattle grazing you can make money, and all that money 1142 01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:34,200 Speaker 1: is all if done correctly, is also improving the habitat, 1143 01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:37,640 Speaker 1: improving the landscape. Now we're really starting to cook with 1144 01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:40,719 Speaker 1: peanut all. You know, it's like we're really we're really 1145 01:10:40,840 --> 01:10:44,960 Speaker 1: making something great here. Um because we're opening up that canopy. 1146 01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:48,920 Speaker 1: We're we now have funds to either put back in 1147 01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:51,640 Speaker 1: the landscape or put somebody in place to manage this. 1148 01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:54,519 Speaker 1: And man, you want to talk about making a big 1149 01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:58,160 Speaker 1: impact not just for deer, but birds and everything. You 1150 01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:00,479 Speaker 1: know what I talked earlier about that that where we 1151 01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:04,320 Speaker 1: where we did the hillside that we cut trees and 1152 01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:06,760 Speaker 1: we did timber stand improvement. We cut the weed trees 1153 01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:09,280 Speaker 1: and then we burned it. Fellas that like the deer 1154 01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:12,640 Speaker 1: utilize it now it's great nesting for turkeys. But what 1155 01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:15,760 Speaker 1: you can really key on, key in on, is the 1156 01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:18,200 Speaker 1: amount of birds that are in that. Like you can 1157 01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:21,280 Speaker 1: just go there and hear birds singing, flying, you know, 1158 01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:25,800 Speaker 1: just it's amazing. It sounds alive. And that's what we're 1159 01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:29,240 Speaker 1: looking for in a landscape. A landscape that is either 1160 01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:33,800 Speaker 1: restored or healthy should not be stagnant. You should hear 1161 01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:37,200 Speaker 1: the buzzing, you should hear birds chirping, like, there should 1162 01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:42,439 Speaker 1: be activity from a wide range of whether again insect 1163 01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:46,040 Speaker 1: life all the way up to birds mammals utilizing that area. 1164 01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:50,120 Speaker 1: If it's not, it's probably a low grade site because 1165 01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:52,080 Speaker 1: they're not gonna Yeah, they're not gonna be there if 1166 01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:56,240 Speaker 1: it doesn't offer anything, right. Yeah, man, that's incredible stuff. 1167 01:11:56,760 --> 01:11:58,840 Speaker 1: I want to have you guys back on sometime we 1168 01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:02,559 Speaker 1: can just talk about uh turkeys. Actually, back in the spring, 1169 01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:05,280 Speaker 1: I was wanting to I was trying to figure out 1170 01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:08,599 Speaker 1: a way to talk about turkeys and nesting habitat because 1171 01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:12,080 Speaker 1: she's this part of the world is hurting now. I 1172 01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:15,920 Speaker 1: think Mike Chamberlain, he was on some of the bigger podcasts. 1173 01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:27,040 Speaker 1: First you think I sent some of the bigger Uh no, 1174 01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:30,600 Speaker 1: I did hear him on your podcast? First? Um, and 1175 01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:38,920 Speaker 1: uh no. But but he's done a good job fifth grade. First, 1176 01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:44,160 Speaker 1: Well he's I think he's done a good job. And 1177 01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:46,599 Speaker 1: I mean he's saying all this same stuff you guys 1178 01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:49,680 Speaker 1: are doing, but but just talking about brood habitats. But 1179 01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:52,439 Speaker 1: we don't really it's people aren't thinking that much about 1180 01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:55,240 Speaker 1: turkeys right now. But I really would like to have 1181 01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:58,479 Speaker 1: you guys back on. So we're very passionate about turkeys, 1182 01:12:59,320 --> 01:13:04,080 Speaker 1: turkey hunting and then making more of them. One thing 1183 01:13:07,160 --> 01:13:12,040 Speaker 1: that's not like poultry farmers, peanut oil, fry and turkey. 1184 01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:15,639 Speaker 1: My brother, my brother working in in kind of western 1185 01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:21,160 Speaker 1: south of here. Uh in western Arkansas. Landscapes pretty similar, 1186 01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:26,200 Speaker 1: different mountain range air quote that um. But one thing 1187 01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:28,560 Speaker 1: that he's got to observe over his last four or 1188 01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:31,600 Speaker 1: five years working down there is the impact of you know, 1189 01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:35,920 Speaker 1: everybody knows Arkansas turkey population is not doing great, but 1190 01:13:36,160 --> 01:13:39,520 Speaker 1: where they find and like they can go and employee 1191 01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:43,560 Speaker 1: are other employees that he works with are are actively 1192 01:13:43,640 --> 01:13:45,680 Speaker 1: hunting in Arkansas. Of course he's a Missouri guy, so 1193 01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:49,040 Speaker 1: he leaves Arkansas to come out Missouri. You know where 1194 01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:52,720 Speaker 1: they're finding populations increasing in a lot more turkeys to 1195 01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:56,360 Speaker 1: hunt these places that are very actively managed there. There 1196 01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:59,080 Speaker 1: are lots of fire, there's lots of timber sales or 1197 01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:01,840 Speaker 1: they're cutting timber. So there's lots of the early successional 1198 01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:05,439 Speaker 1: plants growing up in the disturbed sites. They're not growing 1199 01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:07,720 Speaker 1: them in close candic forests that are getting filled with 1200 01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:11,960 Speaker 1: bushy suckles. Not by happens chance. Yeah, strong strong, strong 1201 01:14:12,080 --> 01:14:21,000 Speaker 1: correlations to disturbances and improving or maintaining stabilizing UM turkey populations. 1202 01:14:21,479 --> 01:14:23,479 Speaker 1: So hey, I want to I want to talk to 1203 01:14:23,520 --> 01:14:26,559 Speaker 1: you guys some about your hunting. Um, just like your 1204 01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:29,880 Speaker 1: personal hunting. So y'all are like getting big plans this 1205 01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:35,800 Speaker 1: fall traveling or hunting locally, mainly locally. My wife and 1206 01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:38,719 Speaker 1: I will have our second child in August mid August, 1207 01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:43,679 Speaker 1: so um my, my traveling is going to be pretty limited. 1208 01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:47,280 Speaker 1: And at the same time, Manes was so crazy for 1209 01:14:47,400 --> 01:14:51,200 Speaker 1: us with consulting that once dear season starts to dwindle, 1210 01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:55,920 Speaker 1: you know, we start consulting in December, usually in January, February, March, 1211 01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:59,559 Speaker 1: April is just crazy. And this year it's travel enough 1212 01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:03,760 Speaker 1: in that first quarter generally that's like I'm done. So 1213 01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:06,840 Speaker 1: like going into the fall, we feel guilty leaving home, 1214 01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:11,280 Speaker 1: and frankly I don't want to because I just want 1215 01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:13,640 Speaker 1: to stop and sit down and and kind of go 1216 01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:17,160 Speaker 1: hunt my own spots. And fortunately where I grew up hunting, 1217 01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:19,400 Speaker 1: my family farm, we still have it today and so 1218 01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:21,400 Speaker 1: I get to hunt the same turf that I hunted 1219 01:15:21,400 --> 01:15:23,840 Speaker 1: when I was twelve years old. And we have a 1220 01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:26,160 Speaker 1: pretty good buck on there. So what's a pretty good 1221 01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:30,080 Speaker 1: buck for up there? Uh? Well, this is above average 1222 01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:33,240 Speaker 1: for the area. A pretty good buck would be hundred 1223 01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:36,200 Speaker 1: and we have a couple of those that will probably 1224 01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:38,120 Speaker 1: be in the range. Yeah. Yeah, we got one that 1225 01:15:38,160 --> 01:15:39,760 Speaker 1: we're waiting on to show up. The last year was 1226 01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:42,840 Speaker 1: probably low flow forty high thirties. That was three and 1227 01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:45,400 Speaker 1: a half year old that Matt saw late season. That 1228 01:15:45,439 --> 01:15:47,760 Speaker 1: should blow up. But we found sheds to a buck 1229 01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:50,880 Speaker 1: that um somewhere around one nine. I'll leave it at that. 1230 01:15:51,479 --> 01:15:54,960 Speaker 1: Are you being serious? Yeah? Yeah, wow, Yeah, that's been 1231 01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:57,559 Speaker 1: missed him last year. Uh took a shot at him 1232 01:15:57,560 --> 01:16:01,479 Speaker 1: with a boat last light shot under him. But um, 1233 01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:04,840 Speaker 1: he's still around hopefully, and so that that's just uh, 1234 01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:10,479 Speaker 1: if you will again, the region of southern Missouri, it's 1235 01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:13,920 Speaker 1: not often characterized as a big buck place, right where 1236 01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:17,960 Speaker 1: you can have many hunting shows going to the ozarks 1237 01:16:18,680 --> 01:16:23,080 Speaker 1: it right, So, but in pockets where that habits hat 1238 01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:25,760 Speaker 1: is in place. Again, another strong correlation to with you 1239 01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:29,000 Speaker 1: when you have that age structure built in and you've 1240 01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:31,840 Speaker 1: got some really good deer and then you'll find, you know, 1241 01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:34,599 Speaker 1: pockets across you know, I think I think of something 1242 01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:38,480 Speaker 1: like south central Missouri where they're doing more logging operations 1243 01:16:38,560 --> 01:16:41,320 Speaker 1: and there's the return of some of the great species 1244 01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:43,840 Speaker 1: that we want. In an understory, they've got them and 1245 01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:46,599 Speaker 1: they've gotten spread across the landscape. Usually there's a couple 1246 01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:48,920 Speaker 1: of big deer to come out of there like the world, 1247 01:16:49,040 --> 01:16:52,000 Speaker 1: and then as the forest grows back and the canopy closed, 1248 01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:53,920 Speaker 1: it back up the big deer kind of you don't 1249 01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:56,600 Speaker 1: see him getting killed there as much. I think in 1250 01:16:56,960 --> 01:17:01,040 Speaker 1: timber country you can almost like when you have hard woods, um, 1251 01:17:01,200 --> 01:17:03,920 Speaker 1: not timber country in this pine plantation, but if you 1252 01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:08,800 Speaker 1: have mixed hardwoods, uh, you can almost find a correlation 1253 01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:13,760 Speaker 1: between big deer that follow logging operations because those five 1254 01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:17,280 Speaker 1: years after logging operation there's food and cover everywhere. Do 1255 01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:19,160 Speaker 1: you think they're following the trucks or do you think 1256 01:17:19,160 --> 01:17:22,320 Speaker 1: they're actually hitching on I think there's more and getting 1257 01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:27,400 Speaker 1: spilled out yuh um. What do you guys think about 1258 01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:29,800 Speaker 1: bears in southern Missouri. I think it's awesome. It's cool, 1259 01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:32,439 Speaker 1: Yeah that we've we've started finding them more and more, 1260 01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:38,000 Speaker 1: um there showing up on cameras. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. 1261 01:17:38,240 --> 01:17:40,799 Speaker 1: And we're not too many years away from a bear season, 1262 01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:43,640 Speaker 1: so yeah, I don't know what that's gonna be like 1263 01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:46,759 Speaker 1: for us. You know, they're talking like it'll be in October. 1264 01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:49,439 Speaker 1: Rifles in October Rifle and it's kind of like, well, 1265 01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:51,160 Speaker 1: I want to be bo hunting deer at that point. 1266 01:17:51,240 --> 01:17:54,519 Speaker 1: But you know, we had we had on Laura Conley, 1267 01:17:54,600 --> 01:18:02,040 Speaker 1: the the Yeah, so one of out there What's up 1268 01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:09,960 Speaker 1: your podcast? Of course one of the bigger ones. Um no, 1269 01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:13,240 Speaker 1: she I think it's pretty much if if you guys 1270 01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:16,920 Speaker 1: could bait deer in Soet of Missouri, or in Missouri 1271 01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:22,559 Speaker 1: at all, the bear would be a big problem totally. Yeah, yeah, 1272 01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:26,599 Speaker 1: because like what if you could bait there, there would 1273 01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:30,840 Speaker 1: be bears at every corn pile, tearing up every corn feeder, 1274 01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:33,759 Speaker 1: and people will be throwing a fit. So it's interesting 1275 01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:35,320 Speaker 1: for me to look at it because it's a different 1276 01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:37,479 Speaker 1: setting and we've had bears for so long here people 1277 01:18:37,479 --> 01:18:40,360 Speaker 1: are just kind of used to it. But these bears 1278 01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:44,200 Speaker 1: are moving back in and they've been there for thirty 1279 01:18:44,280 --> 01:18:46,400 Speaker 1: years or longer. Even I think she said there was 1280 01:18:46,520 --> 01:18:50,439 Speaker 1: evidence of bears being in there, I mean pretty shortly 1281 01:18:50,479 --> 01:18:53,920 Speaker 1: after the reintroduction from Arkansas in the fifties and sixties. 1282 01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:56,240 Speaker 1: I mean there's been there, there's been bears there, but 1283 01:18:57,280 --> 01:19:00,840 Speaker 1: just in the last ten years they've really crazy. You know. 1284 01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:04,400 Speaker 1: I worked for the Missouri Department of Conservation in college 1285 01:19:04,439 --> 01:19:07,240 Speaker 1: and shortly after right out of college, and when we 1286 01:19:07,439 --> 01:19:11,960 Speaker 1: first started trapping bears um and first started radio calling bears, 1287 01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:16,000 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, what's what's funny about it that 1288 01:19:16,439 --> 01:19:19,120 Speaker 1: that you know, fortunately for Matt and I were not 1289 01:19:19,240 --> 01:19:22,160 Speaker 1: government employees, so we're a little bit more aggressive with 1290 01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:26,000 Speaker 1: our management techniques. We don't have to jump through legislation 1291 01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:28,200 Speaker 1: to try to get a timber sale or whatever. We 1292 01:19:28,240 --> 01:19:30,160 Speaker 1: can kind of just go recommend it and people do it. 1293 01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:33,640 Speaker 1: And uh so we can say things that maybe they 1294 01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:36,040 Speaker 1: wouldn't say. But it was funny when I was working there, 1295 01:19:36,439 --> 01:19:39,880 Speaker 1: um is we would track these radio collared bears. And 1296 01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:42,720 Speaker 1: when we first started doing it was late, it was 1297 01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:47,839 Speaker 1: late in the summer. Um and even during deer season 1298 01:19:47,920 --> 01:19:51,160 Speaker 1: when there was no legal you couldn't legally bait, you 1299 01:19:51,200 --> 01:19:55,720 Speaker 1: would notice trends of bears going to sites on a 1300 01:19:55,800 --> 01:19:58,200 Speaker 1: regular basis where it's just like, I know, there's some 1301 01:19:58,400 --> 01:20:01,360 Speaker 1: sort of attractant there because bear is there almost every 1302 01:20:01,439 --> 01:20:05,439 Speaker 1: single feeding deer or something. Yeah, people feeding deer and 1303 01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:08,519 Speaker 1: bears were going in and so they couldn't complain that 1304 01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:14,040 Speaker 1: their feeders were getting tore up because they right, Yeah, 1305 01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:17,120 Speaker 1: what did I did I see? Uh where was I 1306 01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:20,240 Speaker 1: at the other day? I was somewhere the other day. Well, 1307 01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:23,640 Speaker 1: it's it was here. You know. We we we now 1308 01:20:23,720 --> 01:20:29,320 Speaker 1: have CWD regulations that can't bait deer thirty days before season. Wow, 1309 01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:32,680 Speaker 1: that's what that's. So that's that's Missouri anyway. So like 1310 01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:35,320 Speaker 1: even without CBD, that's Missouri. You could bait during the 1311 01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:38,599 Speaker 1: off season, but thirty days before the season you had 1312 01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:42,480 Speaker 1: to stop. You guys are, well, no, no, we're the opposite. 1313 01:20:42,600 --> 01:20:45,960 Speaker 1: We can't. We can't feed any time except thirty days 1314 01:20:46,080 --> 01:20:51,160 Speaker 1: before hunting is exact opposite. Does CWD stop being transmitted 1315 01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:54,760 Speaker 1: thirty days before the deer hunt? Is more important? It 1316 01:20:54,920 --> 01:20:59,240 Speaker 1: was totally a political political right but uh no, But 1317 01:20:59,479 --> 01:21:03,280 Speaker 1: like Walmart in different places around, like you're selling corn. 1318 01:21:03,920 --> 01:21:05,519 Speaker 1: I don't want to say right now because that hadn't 1319 01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:09,080 Speaker 1: been to Walmart in a long time, but like, yeah, 1320 01:21:09,160 --> 01:21:11,599 Speaker 1: people are selling corn. And it's like all the game 1321 01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:13,759 Speaker 1: Ward and would have to do is like the Walmart 1322 01:21:14,439 --> 01:21:17,920 Speaker 1: watch who buys, you know, gender pounds of corn and 1323 01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:21,040 Speaker 1: then following up to the woods. But what's the point 1324 01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:23,760 Speaker 1: of writing a ticket for a judge or somebody just 1325 01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:27,040 Speaker 1: throw it out yeah, maybe, since it depends on the region. 1326 01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:30,120 Speaker 1: You know, in Missouri, um corn is sold in Walmart 1327 01:21:30,200 --> 01:21:35,320 Speaker 1: and supporting goods stores almost. I'm assuming you're around all 1328 01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:38,120 Speaker 1: other times of the year except hunting season. Yes, in Missouri, yes, 1329 01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:42,679 Speaker 1: us you're in a zone ten days before honey season. 1330 01:21:42,680 --> 01:21:45,360 Speaker 1: I just think it's fifteen maybe somewhere in there. But 1331 01:21:45,840 --> 01:21:49,120 Speaker 1: but in ironically, and it's just like what a world 1332 01:21:49,240 --> 01:21:51,559 Speaker 1: we live in. But when hunting season opens up, it's 1333 01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:53,320 Speaker 1: like they go get the palette jack and they move 1334 01:21:53,400 --> 01:21:57,160 Speaker 1: it up closer, and you're just like, are you serious? 1335 01:21:57,320 --> 01:22:01,360 Speaker 1: Right now? We can't even in even CWT zones where 1336 01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:04,280 Speaker 1: you're not supposed to bait at all, is like they 1337 01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:09,559 Speaker 1: still sell corn, so it's sort of not money, it's 1338 01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:19,200 Speaker 1: bird seed at them. Yeah, yeah, we see the same. Yeah, 1339 01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:24,160 Speaker 1: we gotta uh an uphill battle in the world of 1340 01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:28,160 Speaker 1: changing perspectives, that's what really it comes down to. And 1341 01:22:28,320 --> 01:22:31,960 Speaker 1: everything that we deal with is changing perspective and usually 1342 01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:35,640 Speaker 1: the most beneficial thing is long term. Oh yeah, I 1343 01:22:35,680 --> 01:22:38,160 Speaker 1: mean that's the way it is. Cut corners with the 1344 01:22:38,320 --> 01:22:40,040 Speaker 1: kind of stuff I don't think you can cut corners 1345 01:22:40,080 --> 01:22:43,800 Speaker 1: and conservation really, yeah, it's a natural, it's a natural 1346 01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:46,840 Speaker 1: corners and conservation world that we're working with, and that 1347 01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:49,680 Speaker 1: you have to look at the foundation, which in what 1348 01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:54,240 Speaker 1: it operates on, and it doesn't really cut corners. The 1349 01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:56,639 Speaker 1: system is the system. I think we need to learn 1350 01:22:57,040 --> 01:22:59,840 Speaker 1: first what the system is, embrace it, and then may 1351 01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:03,120 Speaker 1: edge in that system. We're not now as we're seeing 1352 01:23:03,160 --> 01:23:06,200 Speaker 1: all this stuff occurrently. We talked about the podcast Learn 1353 01:23:06,240 --> 01:23:09,040 Speaker 1: the System Management was you know when you learn that 1354 01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:11,240 Speaker 1: since the system that he's talking about, it's not that 1355 01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:13,920 Speaker 1: we set on a throne and rain over all of 1356 01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:15,880 Speaker 1: it would just fit right in the middle of all 1357 01:23:15,920 --> 01:23:17,320 Speaker 1: of it, and we just have to figure out how 1358 01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:19,640 Speaker 1: to And it's nothing that like manage with it we 1359 01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:22,040 Speaker 1: created or land lace it did. It's just like this 1360 01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:24,800 Speaker 1: is the way that God designed it. I'm just embracing that, 1361 01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:28,880 Speaker 1: I'm learning it, and then I'm applying you know, truth 1362 01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:32,880 Speaker 1: and the way that nature works to nature. Well, it's 1363 01:23:32,920 --> 01:23:36,240 Speaker 1: like another statement we make sometimes talking about invasive species 1364 01:23:36,240 --> 01:23:39,120 Speaker 1: and improving deer and whatnot. It's like, I'm not going 1365 01:23:39,280 --> 01:23:43,280 Speaker 1: to manage a native species talking about dear with non 1366 01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:47,479 Speaker 1: native plants. Yeah, I want to find the native plants 1367 01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:50,760 Speaker 1: that they like manage for those, I'm probably going to 1368 01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:54,720 Speaker 1: improve that native animal species at the same time. And 1369 01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:58,639 Speaker 1: that's a longer game plan than going out and buying 1370 01:23:58,800 --> 01:24:03,240 Speaker 1: corn and pouring it out it totally. Or you will 1371 01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:07,639 Speaker 1: create you will create a deer mecca for a couple 1372 01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:09,960 Speaker 1: of days by putting out two hundred pounds of corners there. 1373 01:24:10,040 --> 01:24:13,479 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's that's what's that's what's so it's so 1374 01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:18,760 Speaker 1: bizarre and at the same time, you're you're you're confined 1375 01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:22,600 Speaker 1: by the culture in some ways. But like, um, you know, 1376 01:24:22,720 --> 01:24:26,680 Speaker 1: like baiting deer in Arkansas such a political thing. I mean, 1377 01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:30,519 Speaker 1: like the culture has become if revolves you know, on 1378 01:24:30,600 --> 01:24:33,000 Speaker 1: private land, can't bait on public land. So there's still 1379 01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:35,320 Speaker 1: guys that are on public land that are deer hunting 1380 01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:38,880 Speaker 1: based upon sign and trails and stuff. But then like 1381 01:24:39,240 --> 01:24:41,040 Speaker 1: if you're on if you're on private land, you're deer 1382 01:24:41,080 --> 01:24:44,680 Speaker 1: hunting in Arkansas. I mean, like, you know, it's almost like, 1383 01:24:44,760 --> 01:24:46,720 Speaker 1: don't hate the player, hate the game. I mean you 1384 01:24:46,920 --> 01:24:49,759 Speaker 1: gotta bait deer. Yeah, I mean, and I said, quote 1385 01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:53,360 Speaker 1: quote unquote gotta and I'm torn on because I mean 1386 01:24:53,840 --> 01:24:57,800 Speaker 1: hunting small properties, I mean I have no and say that, 1387 01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:00,200 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's it's actually a lot harder kill 1388 01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:04,640 Speaker 1: a big deer over supplemental feed. Then you think, I 1389 01:25:04,720 --> 01:25:07,760 Speaker 1: mean there are guys that are masters at it, and 1390 01:25:07,840 --> 01:25:11,519 Speaker 1: you know what, they're there, Jedi masters because it's hard 1391 01:25:12,360 --> 01:25:14,679 Speaker 1: um and so you know, like to kill big deer 1392 01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:18,000 Speaker 1: over here. Here's an idea. Let me let me just 1393 01:25:18,680 --> 01:25:21,519 Speaker 1: off the top of my head, say what we do. 1394 01:25:22,280 --> 01:25:23,679 Speaker 1: There's a lot of guys that hunt up the ground, 1395 01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:26,759 Speaker 1: and then you search for like these perfect betting areas 1396 01:25:26,840 --> 01:25:29,559 Speaker 1: like where he's like, oh he's betted here private land. Guys, 1397 01:25:29,640 --> 01:25:32,479 Speaker 1: we can go, well, okay, what is what makes that 1398 01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:34,360 Speaker 1: so special? Okay, I'm gonna take that and I'm gonna 1399 01:25:34,400 --> 01:25:36,000 Speaker 1: go do it on twenty spots on my farm to 1400 01:25:36,080 --> 01:25:39,680 Speaker 1: where I've got ideal betting everywhere. What about you know, 1401 01:25:39,960 --> 01:25:44,280 Speaker 1: when it comes to debating, everybody says most guys that 1402 01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:46,840 Speaker 1: hunt over bait say, well, it's really hard to shoot 1403 01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:49,080 Speaker 1: a maturity or over a bait side. We have to 1404 01:25:49,160 --> 01:25:51,559 Speaker 1: really hunt him going to the bait side because they 1405 01:25:51,600 --> 01:25:55,200 Speaker 1: show up right after dark. Well let's not. So let's 1406 01:25:55,280 --> 01:26:01,479 Speaker 1: take and create ideal betting, secure betting somewhere using trained 1407 01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:04,920 Speaker 1: features and what we know about natural disturbance to create 1408 01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:08,000 Speaker 1: what he would call a bedroom, and then let's find 1409 01:26:08,040 --> 01:26:10,040 Speaker 1: a place in between the two to hunt him as 1410 01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:14,479 Speaker 1: he's getting up. It's like, that sounds sounds pretty pretty 1411 01:26:14,520 --> 01:26:16,120 Speaker 1: fun to me. Now I don't have to sit and 1412 01:26:16,200 --> 01:26:20,120 Speaker 1: stare squirrels eating all the corn and you and you 1413 01:26:20,160 --> 01:26:23,000 Speaker 1: would and you would kill better deer too. Any time 1414 01:26:23,040 --> 01:26:26,280 Speaker 1: I dog on bait and deer, I've got to clarify myself. 1415 01:26:26,479 --> 01:26:28,720 Speaker 1: I've got to say. I've had people say, Clay, you're 1416 01:26:28,720 --> 01:26:32,559 Speaker 1: a massive proponent of baiting bear. Baiting deer and bait 1417 01:26:32,640 --> 01:26:35,560 Speaker 1: and bear is totally different things. We bait bear to 1418 01:26:35,720 --> 01:26:39,640 Speaker 1: be selectively to selectively harvest bear, we're not. We're not 1419 01:26:39,760 --> 01:26:43,040 Speaker 1: trying to supplement a bear's diet to improve his health. Yeah, 1420 01:26:43,080 --> 01:26:47,519 Speaker 1: we'll see what I'm saying. We're when we're baiting a bear, 1421 01:26:48,439 --> 01:26:51,800 Speaker 1: we are we're trying to draw berrying because there's such 1422 01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:59,640 Speaker 1: a dispersed there. There don't have high densities, you know, 1423 01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:02,080 Speaker 1: like a deer. A deer would have these really high densities, 1424 01:27:02,120 --> 01:27:04,880 Speaker 1: of bear would have very low densities. And so it's 1425 01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:07,400 Speaker 1: like totally different because I just what is for you? 1426 01:27:07,640 --> 01:27:10,240 Speaker 1: You know who you are out there and podcast World's 1427 01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:12,360 Speaker 1: gonna email me and say, I thought you're a proponent 1428 01:27:12,439 --> 01:27:15,920 Speaker 1: of baiting. I absolutely am for for for bear and 1429 01:27:16,200 --> 01:27:18,799 Speaker 1: and I'm not saying I'm against it for deer totally. 1430 01:27:19,200 --> 01:27:22,000 Speaker 1: It's kind of a catch twenty two in places where 1431 01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:23,680 Speaker 1: you have been able to do it for so long, 1432 01:27:23,800 --> 01:27:26,960 Speaker 1: they probably just needed they need to just cut it out. 1433 01:27:27,080 --> 01:27:31,160 Speaker 1: To me, I think it, and they do. I would 1434 01:27:31,160 --> 01:27:33,200 Speaker 1: be totally cool if they cut out baiting for deer. 1435 01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:38,280 Speaker 1: I mean, and they really should. It's this is what 1436 01:27:38,439 --> 01:27:41,439 Speaker 1: we talked about, what we started seeing. Let's take a 1437 01:27:41,760 --> 01:27:46,240 Speaker 1: person who has a bait side out and you're monitoring 1438 01:27:46,320 --> 01:27:49,759 Speaker 1: it with trell cameras, and I want your listeners because 1439 01:27:50,160 --> 01:27:51,800 Speaker 1: I know there's probably a lot of them in this 1440 01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:54,920 Speaker 1: region that that that uh, that bait because that's the 1441 01:27:54,960 --> 01:27:59,160 Speaker 1: way of life. Like um, alright, So do you get 1442 01:27:59,240 --> 01:28:03,200 Speaker 1: more picture of raccoons in in a in the course 1443 01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:06,599 Speaker 1: of your baiting, you get more pictures of raccoons or deer. 1444 01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:10,400 Speaker 1: And based on my experience when I used to put 1445 01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:14,479 Speaker 1: out corn, it was almost always more raccoons. And if 1446 01:28:14,479 --> 01:28:17,120 Speaker 1: your deer hunter, especially at Turkey Hunter, you're you've now 1447 01:28:17,240 --> 01:28:20,560 Speaker 1: got this like embedded in your in your brain that 1448 01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:24,639 Speaker 1: raccoons are bad, that you must trap kill them, don't 1449 01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:26,640 Speaker 1: stop killing them till you don't see him anymore kind 1450 01:28:26,680 --> 01:28:31,960 Speaker 1: of mindset. And it's like, okay, well is my corn 1451 01:28:32,080 --> 01:28:34,759 Speaker 1: more beneficial to the deer, more beneficial to my hunting, 1452 01:28:34,920 --> 01:28:38,559 Speaker 1: or more beneficial to the predator that I hate. You're 1453 01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:42,840 Speaker 1: not only supplementing food for deer, you're supplementing for this 1454 01:28:42,960 --> 01:28:48,639 Speaker 1: species their benefiting as well, which man, And that's why 1455 01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:50,880 Speaker 1: I like when we step back to trying to replicate nature, 1456 01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:53,960 Speaker 1: it's like, well, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna use 1457 01:28:54,080 --> 01:28:57,160 Speaker 1: fire and grazing and this kind of disturbance because that 1458 01:28:57,400 --> 01:28:59,599 Speaker 1: right there is a little bit hard to hard to chew. 1459 01:29:00,360 --> 01:29:03,760 Speaker 1: I think to me, the overarching principle that stands out 1460 01:29:03,800 --> 01:29:07,240 Speaker 1: in my mind is that it's much harder to do 1461 01:29:07,640 --> 01:29:11,480 Speaker 1: what you guys are describing, but the long term benefits 1462 01:29:11,560 --> 01:29:17,800 Speaker 1: are much higher. It's much easier too, you know, either 1463 01:29:17,960 --> 01:29:20,240 Speaker 1: not manage and just hunt the deer that you have, 1464 01:29:21,040 --> 01:29:23,080 Speaker 1: which you know, some people it's just not a priority 1465 01:29:23,120 --> 01:29:25,200 Speaker 1: to manage deer, so you know whatever, there's just some 1466 01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:26,840 Speaker 1: people that just have some land there. Like we go 1467 01:29:26,920 --> 01:29:29,400 Speaker 1: out there for three days a year and no big deal. 1468 01:29:29,960 --> 01:29:34,160 Speaker 1: But it's it's anyway. Just in life, that's always the case. 1469 01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:38,439 Speaker 1: What's hard and long term is usually way better. Yeah, 1470 01:29:38,640 --> 01:29:41,080 Speaker 1: but takes a lot more energy and effort, you know. 1471 01:29:41,360 --> 01:29:44,439 Speaker 1: And so yeah, and you know those people who are 1472 01:29:44,439 --> 01:29:46,560 Speaker 1: sitting there wondering how do I fit into all that? 1473 01:29:47,160 --> 01:29:49,960 Speaker 1: There's a lot of winds along the way too. If 1474 01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:54,280 Speaker 1: you're if you're not just some incremental like like you 1475 01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:57,559 Speaker 1: could do small things. Yeah, like you you you you say, Okay, 1476 01:29:57,560 --> 01:29:59,720 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take that long route. I'm gonna manage in 1477 01:29:59,800 --> 01:30:03,960 Speaker 1: this way, this mindset um. And let's say you're doing 1478 01:30:03,960 --> 01:30:08,479 Speaker 1: it for deer. Sometimes that that goal it may take 1479 01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:10,960 Speaker 1: years to get there and then you stabilize it and 1480 01:30:11,120 --> 01:30:17,120 Speaker 1: maintain it whatever. But although your goal is for whitetail 1481 01:30:17,160 --> 01:30:19,920 Speaker 1: deer and you want to kill one sixty whatever, there's 1482 01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:22,439 Speaker 1: other things that you can enjoy along the way. Rabbit 1483 01:30:22,479 --> 01:30:27,320 Speaker 1: populations are going to increase, other small game. The birds 1484 01:30:27,360 --> 01:30:29,599 Speaker 1: that we hear in the woodland that you just talked about, 1485 01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:32,800 Speaker 1: that's cool, Like you did that like that that that 1486 01:30:33,000 --> 01:30:36,200 Speaker 1: is an ecological significance of what you did. It's not 1487 01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:40,400 Speaker 1: a hundred sixty in deer. But maybe you heard one 1488 01:30:41,240 --> 01:30:43,680 Speaker 1: summer tangent. Now there's what how many? You can go there? 1489 01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:46,960 Speaker 1: And here half a dozen on the same side. There's 1490 01:30:47,080 --> 01:30:49,840 Speaker 1: there's these little winds along the way in this long 1491 01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:52,639 Speaker 1: game that you need to be focused on a certain 1492 01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:56,439 Speaker 1: mentality when you think about it, like we're as a 1493 01:30:56,560 --> 01:30:59,280 Speaker 1: human being, we're pretty prideful, Like we want to think 1494 01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:01,800 Speaker 1: that at the end of our life there'll be a 1495 01:31:01,880 --> 01:31:04,599 Speaker 1: ton of people at our funeral, and and two hundred 1496 01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:07,120 Speaker 1: years after our death that people are still gonna remember 1497 01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:10,519 Speaker 1: us and talk about us. Like that's just our human nature. 1498 01:31:10,600 --> 01:31:15,160 Speaker 1: But if you look at the most common type of 1499 01:31:15,920 --> 01:31:19,360 Speaker 1: hunting habitat enhancement, and I say that kind of loosely 1500 01:31:19,400 --> 01:31:22,080 Speaker 1: because it's not really habitat enhancement. But if we go 1501 01:31:22,160 --> 01:31:23,840 Speaker 1: out and we put out a feeder, we put up 1502 01:31:23,880 --> 01:31:26,600 Speaker 1: a food plot, we hang a tree stand, or we 1503 01:31:26,720 --> 01:31:30,200 Speaker 1: make some trails, and you did that for five years, 1504 01:31:30,240 --> 01:31:32,320 Speaker 1: and then you didn't do it for five years and 1505 01:31:32,439 --> 01:31:36,200 Speaker 1: you came back, what would there be that you You'd 1506 01:31:36,280 --> 01:31:39,439 Speaker 1: have a rusted up feeder and arrested up tree stand 1507 01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:42,120 Speaker 1: and a trail that's overgrown. Probably wouldn't even be able 1508 01:31:42,160 --> 01:31:45,120 Speaker 1: to tell that your work was ever there. But if 1509 01:31:45,200 --> 01:31:49,439 Speaker 1: you do, you know overall habitat enhancement. You plant a 1510 01:31:49,520 --> 01:31:53,439 Speaker 1: diverse prairie, or you restore a woodland or savannah, or 1511 01:31:53,520 --> 01:31:55,840 Speaker 1: you put in a young forest clear cut. That's something 1512 01:31:55,960 --> 01:31:57,760 Speaker 1: you go back twenty years later and they're probably gonna 1513 01:31:57,840 --> 01:32:02,879 Speaker 1: see it, and it's like it's like lasting impact, lasting impact. 1514 01:32:03,000 --> 01:32:05,519 Speaker 1: It's a legacy of of managing that land in an 1515 01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:09,200 Speaker 1: appropriate manner to where your kids and your grandkids hopefully 1516 01:32:09,240 --> 01:32:11,720 Speaker 1: can see that and carry that torch rather than oh, 1517 01:32:11,960 --> 01:32:16,640 Speaker 1: there's there's dad's rusted up feeder and tree stand that 1518 01:32:16,720 --> 01:32:19,160 Speaker 1: now I have a haul out of here, and and 1519 01:32:19,280 --> 01:32:23,240 Speaker 1: that like there's even in in that same scenario, there's 1520 01:32:23,280 --> 01:32:27,439 Speaker 1: so many either life lessons about whether it is life 1521 01:32:27,479 --> 01:32:30,800 Speaker 1: and death or or the progression of new growth and 1522 01:32:31,120 --> 01:32:33,880 Speaker 1: spring greenups, all these different lessons that you can share 1523 01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:36,080 Speaker 1: with other people. You can't really do that when you 1524 01:32:36,200 --> 01:32:38,719 Speaker 1: go in, walk into a feeder and put a fifty 1525 01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:41,080 Speaker 1: pound back of corn. You could see that dear respond 1526 01:32:41,160 --> 01:32:43,760 Speaker 1: to it. But you still have that same advantage by 1527 01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:47,599 Speaker 1: going the conservation mindset and and improving the actual habitat 1528 01:32:47,640 --> 01:32:50,360 Speaker 1: and the landscape itself. I think I think we often 1529 01:32:50,479 --> 01:32:55,519 Speaker 1: underestimate our potential to have that impact because they're simple 1530 01:32:55,560 --> 01:32:58,839 Speaker 1: ways to do it. But we can impact the landscape, 1531 01:32:58,840 --> 01:33:01,560 Speaker 1: we can impact regions, we the pact states. It just 1532 01:33:01,960 --> 01:33:09,040 Speaker 1: is a long term. Yeah, that's cool. That's very cool. Um, 1533 01:33:11,479 --> 01:33:13,160 Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta tell the story and then and 1534 01:33:13,200 --> 01:33:16,879 Speaker 1: then we'll end, because this is it's it's pretty connected. 1535 01:33:17,200 --> 01:33:20,639 Speaker 1: Going back to supplemental feeding and everything you just guys said, 1536 01:33:20,800 --> 01:33:22,840 Speaker 1: I think sums up kind of who you guys are 1537 01:33:22,920 --> 01:33:27,040 Speaker 1: and kind of like your your like deeper philosophies for 1538 01:33:27,120 --> 01:33:31,679 Speaker 1: why you're doing what you're doing, which I like it. Um. Okay, 1539 01:33:31,760 --> 01:33:35,439 Speaker 1: So back to the like the the lesser topic of 1540 01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:40,800 Speaker 1: baiting bears and the southern washing dolls are expanding pretty 1541 01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:44,519 Speaker 1: rapidly into the Gulf coastal plaine of Arkansas. So like 1542 01:33:44,680 --> 01:33:48,120 Speaker 1: the like the larger regions of Arkansas would be the 1543 01:33:48,160 --> 01:33:51,439 Speaker 1: ozarks like Western Arkansas Ozarks, Washtalls, and the Gulf coastal plane, 1544 01:33:51,439 --> 01:33:54,280 Speaker 1: which would basically be and be like getting in down 1545 01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:57,600 Speaker 1: to like the swamp country, like pretty much like alligator 1546 01:33:57,640 --> 01:34:02,720 Speaker 1: country and stuff. Black bears are rapidly moving south and 1547 01:34:02,920 --> 01:34:07,840 Speaker 1: uh that's a part of Arkansas that's fairly sparsely populated, 1548 01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:14,080 Speaker 1: like no major population centers. Uh, some well mainly would 1549 01:34:14,080 --> 01:34:19,080 Speaker 1: be forestry, like big pine plantations and stuff. Myron means 1550 01:34:19,160 --> 01:34:22,800 Speaker 1: the bear biologists for State of Arkansas believes that the 1551 01:34:23,400 --> 01:34:27,599 Speaker 1: backbone of the expansion of bears into that area, which 1552 01:34:27,680 --> 01:34:32,000 Speaker 1: is pine primarily pine like dominant pine dominated landscape which 1553 01:34:32,120 --> 01:34:37,599 Speaker 1: pine tree does nothing for a bear, is uh, supplemental cornpiles. Wow, 1554 01:34:38,080 --> 01:34:41,759 Speaker 1: he thinks. He thinks that basically, you know, so bears 1555 01:34:42,160 --> 01:34:48,120 Speaker 1: biology like or his his caloric calendar revolves around fall 1556 01:34:48,280 --> 01:34:52,080 Speaker 1: hard mast like gathering these massive calories in the fall 1557 01:34:52,720 --> 01:34:57,000 Speaker 1: before denning, and there's they're they're white oaks down there 1558 01:34:57,000 --> 01:34:58,840 Speaker 1: and stuff. So you know they're feeding on that sun. 1559 01:34:58,920 --> 01:35:01,800 Speaker 1: But pine not to the prevalence for an everything or 1560 01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:05,719 Speaker 1: majority as a pine plantation. Oh yeah, it's like massive 1561 01:35:05,760 --> 01:35:08,479 Speaker 1: pine plantations and a lot of monoculture. So and he 1562 01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:14,559 Speaker 1: thinks basically corn people feeding deer has become the back 1563 01:35:14,680 --> 01:35:19,519 Speaker 1: like part of their Yeah, yearly architecture. I would say 1564 01:35:19,560 --> 01:35:24,120 Speaker 1: they're thriving. So, I mean, there's no point to that. 1565 01:35:24,280 --> 01:35:30,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm processed. I'm sitting there, Okay, what's that 1566 01:35:31,360 --> 01:35:34,760 Speaker 1: because I'll share a similar story. Um, I don't really 1567 01:35:34,840 --> 01:35:40,040 Speaker 1: get you know, the idea of Missouri repopulating or growing 1568 01:35:40,120 --> 01:35:42,400 Speaker 1: the bear population to a point where we can hunt 1569 01:35:42,479 --> 01:35:45,280 Speaker 1: them and and you know, make the state can make 1570 01:35:45,360 --> 01:35:48,719 Speaker 1: money on license sales. That's pretty stinking cool. We're restoring 1571 01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:53,479 Speaker 1: a native species to a native region and now we 1572 01:35:53,720 --> 01:35:58,439 Speaker 1: get to enjoy That's absolutely, it's awesome. And there are 1573 01:35:58,520 --> 01:36:01,240 Speaker 1: deer hunters. They're going to complain, but you know what 1574 01:36:01,520 --> 01:36:05,439 Speaker 1: it's it's they were here before we were, um, and 1575 01:36:05,600 --> 01:36:08,960 Speaker 1: so like, yeah, it's super cool. But the idea that 1576 01:36:09,840 --> 01:36:15,360 Speaker 1: that population is growing because of a supplement doesn't have 1577 01:36:15,479 --> 01:36:19,680 Speaker 1: the longevity or the sustainability. That doesn't It was like 1578 01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:22,040 Speaker 1: a weird like stomach like I felt. It was like 1579 01:36:22,520 --> 01:36:25,479 Speaker 1: it's almost like And the reason I say that because 1580 01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:28,240 Speaker 1: I have a similar feeling with U with our our 1581 01:36:28,320 --> 01:36:31,800 Speaker 1: elk restoration that we're doing in Missouri, because a lot 1582 01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:35,560 Speaker 1: of the food plots, the areas that we're trying to 1583 01:36:35,760 --> 01:36:38,400 Speaker 1: provide this food, they're planting orchard grass, which is a 1584 01:36:38,479 --> 01:36:41,960 Speaker 1: non native cool season grass. And it's like, so we're 1585 01:36:42,439 --> 01:36:49,080 Speaker 1: taking this big push to restore natives species for nonnative Yeah, 1586 01:36:49,120 --> 01:36:51,760 Speaker 1: that that doesn't make sense to me, let's let's try 1587 01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:54,760 Speaker 1: to fix the landscape and restore the woodland, savannah's the 1588 01:36:55,320 --> 01:36:58,040 Speaker 1: glades and give them the native species that they have 1589 01:36:58,120 --> 01:37:02,160 Speaker 1: adapted to because us. This is funny thing, like those 1590 01:37:02,200 --> 01:37:07,559 Speaker 1: sites with it which were restocked in obviously, like they 1591 01:37:07,640 --> 01:37:10,120 Speaker 1: chose those sites because the potential of the landscape to 1592 01:37:10,200 --> 01:37:14,680 Speaker 1: offer to be restored. Yet we're supplementing it all with 1593 01:37:15,280 --> 01:37:18,560 Speaker 1: this non native green sources. It's like, that's actually the 1594 01:37:18,680 --> 01:37:21,880 Speaker 1: same story. Let's go take a native prairie and say 1595 01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:24,600 Speaker 1: we're restoring the native landscapes with throw cows out on it. 1596 01:37:24,880 --> 01:37:27,680 Speaker 1: Like it's large ruminants on the native grass and like, 1597 01:37:27,800 --> 01:37:31,360 Speaker 1: what's we just switched it from plants to animals. I 1598 01:37:31,400 --> 01:37:33,760 Speaker 1: don't know, it's it's cool that they're expanding, and it's 1599 01:37:33,800 --> 01:37:35,600 Speaker 1: cool that there's a potential that more people are going 1600 01:37:35,640 --> 01:37:37,680 Speaker 1: to get to see Myron. Myron is the first one 1601 01:37:37,720 --> 01:37:40,920 Speaker 1: to say that's that's not research back, that's just his 1602 01:37:41,280 --> 01:37:44,360 Speaker 1: that's just his observation, that's just what he thinks is happening. 1603 01:37:44,600 --> 01:37:48,880 Speaker 1: And I think it's totally probable. I think what I've 1604 01:37:48,920 --> 01:37:52,120 Speaker 1: thought is that, well, heck, if if they outlawed baiting 1605 01:37:52,280 --> 01:37:54,840 Speaker 1: or something, you know, would that mean that they would 1606 01:37:54,920 --> 01:37:59,240 Speaker 1: leave those areas? And it's my Matt Stein saying, I 1607 01:37:59,360 --> 01:38:02,960 Speaker 1: think I think they'll. I think the bears will find 1608 01:38:03,000 --> 01:38:06,080 Speaker 1: a way to survive down there. But I think I 1609 01:38:06,160 --> 01:38:08,479 Speaker 1: think they're using that because it's a great food source. 1610 01:38:08,720 --> 01:38:11,360 Speaker 1: It's probably prop them up a little bit. But I 1611 01:38:11,439 --> 01:38:15,400 Speaker 1: think if it was gone, I think, man, there such 1612 01:38:15,439 --> 01:38:18,439 Speaker 1: a successful omnibus. There's a question. Yeah, do you think 1613 01:38:18,720 --> 01:38:21,720 Speaker 1: one growing seasons are are different too, so like that 1614 01:38:21,960 --> 01:38:25,160 Speaker 1: length and severity of winter, I think it's gonna help. 1615 01:38:25,640 --> 01:38:27,639 Speaker 1: So it's like it's almost like that crutch to get 1616 01:38:27,720 --> 01:38:30,800 Speaker 1: them into the area. But then if let's just say 1617 01:38:31,400 --> 01:38:34,800 Speaker 1: it did happen baiting was removed, do you think that 1618 01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:37,880 Speaker 1: you would certainly see that bear population if there was 1619 01:38:38,600 --> 01:38:45,560 Speaker 1: those um more populated areas, those bears then be supplementing 1620 01:38:45,720 --> 01:38:50,160 Speaker 1: on trash. More of the cultural conflict people. You know, 1621 01:38:50,240 --> 01:38:53,040 Speaker 1: they have to take one supplement from humans and then 1622 01:38:53,680 --> 01:38:56,440 Speaker 1: go to another one to to from a caloric standpoint, 1623 01:38:56,560 --> 01:39:01,880 Speaker 1: if if nature is not providing it, they have a 1624 01:39:01,960 --> 01:39:03,680 Speaker 1: wide range of stuff that they eat, right, I mean, 1625 01:39:03,880 --> 01:39:08,759 Speaker 1: it's just it's crazy, but we all know that bears 1626 01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:13,439 Speaker 1: love easy meals. Wildlife in general love easy meals. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1627 01:39:13,560 --> 01:39:16,280 Speaker 1: that's entirely possible that if you took it away then 1628 01:39:16,400 --> 01:39:20,559 Speaker 1: all of a sudden you'd have nuisance problems and stuff. Yeah, 1629 01:39:22,000 --> 01:39:26,559 Speaker 1: here's a question for you. So I mentioned earlier Missouri 1630 01:39:26,640 --> 01:39:28,880 Speaker 1: will open up a season, hopefully in the near future 1631 01:39:28,960 --> 01:39:32,600 Speaker 1: for bears. Um, they'll be from my understanding, and I 1632 01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:36,400 Speaker 1: didn't listen to that podcast, so my apologies. Do you 1633 01:39:36,640 --> 01:39:43,280 Speaker 1: feel from what I've heard, Um, there is not going 1634 01:39:43,320 --> 01:39:46,759 Speaker 1: to be any baiting and there's so there's no baiting 1635 01:39:46,840 --> 01:39:51,040 Speaker 1: private or public, and it's gonna be a short, short 1636 01:39:51,200 --> 01:39:59,200 Speaker 1: window with a rifle from what I understand, how successful 1637 01:39:59,280 --> 01:40:02,400 Speaker 1: what I picked is probably by design. What I picture 1638 01:40:02,479 --> 01:40:06,040 Speaker 1: is a bunch of US Missourians who have drawn tags 1639 01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:09,599 Speaker 1: headed to the woods, no dogs either, I don't think, 1640 01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:15,080 Speaker 1: headed to the woods, walking around in densities where are 1641 01:40:15,160 --> 01:40:17,639 Speaker 1: in areas where there is a higher density of bears 1642 01:40:17,960 --> 01:40:21,680 Speaker 1: pushing them out. So what I picture is it's going 1643 01:40:21,720 --> 01:40:24,920 Speaker 1: to be very tough to fill tags. And I picture 1644 01:40:25,000 --> 01:40:28,679 Speaker 1: the bear hot spots or the bear population dispersing into 1645 01:40:29,040 --> 01:40:32,320 Speaker 1: larger regions to where then those bears can repopulate to 1646 01:40:32,400 --> 01:40:37,400 Speaker 1: where ten years from now we'll have bears everywhere. Maybe 1647 01:40:37,439 --> 01:40:39,519 Speaker 1: that's by design, but I just when I heard the 1648 01:40:39,960 --> 01:40:42,280 Speaker 1: potential regulations, I was like, oh, that would be a 1649 01:40:42,320 --> 01:40:45,639 Speaker 1: to the right the right track and say that that's 1650 01:40:45,640 --> 01:40:49,840 Speaker 1: gonna be a super hard animal to hunt. We have 1651 01:40:49,960 --> 01:40:52,400 Speaker 1: a phrase that we use on the podcast, a type 1652 01:40:52,439 --> 01:40:55,160 Speaker 1: of hunting that we describe as the sheep hunt of 1653 01:40:55,200 --> 01:40:58,439 Speaker 1: the South. We actually have shirts that say sheep hunt 1654 01:40:58,479 --> 01:41:00,240 Speaker 1: of the South. And the whole idea is that hunting 1655 01:41:00,280 --> 01:41:03,479 Speaker 1: bears in the eastern deciduous forest is hard, like a 1656 01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:07,120 Speaker 1: western sheep hunt. Like you're you're it's a low probability hunt, 1657 01:41:07,479 --> 01:41:10,640 Speaker 1: very low probability. Um. The only thing that Missouri has 1658 01:41:10,720 --> 01:41:14,200 Speaker 1: going for it is these are unhunted bears. So that's 1659 01:41:14,240 --> 01:41:16,800 Speaker 1: what's incalculable. And you know, it's hard for me to 1660 01:41:16,880 --> 01:41:20,479 Speaker 1: calculate based upon why because our bears are hunted and uh, 1661 01:41:21,120 --> 01:41:23,519 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's I think it's as tough a 1662 01:41:23,600 --> 01:41:25,400 Speaker 1: hunt as there is in North America. And I'm talking 1663 01:41:25,439 --> 01:41:29,320 Speaker 1: about all the types of hunting to go take a bow, 1664 01:41:29,439 --> 01:41:31,680 Speaker 1: and now I'm also talking about take a bow and 1665 01:41:31,760 --> 01:41:33,799 Speaker 1: going to the national forest and kill a bear on purpose. 1666 01:41:34,360 --> 01:41:38,160 Speaker 1: Now almost next to impossible. Well, I mean, that's what 1667 01:41:38,479 --> 01:41:41,120 Speaker 1: that's that's what we've spent a lot of our time 1668 01:41:41,160 --> 01:41:43,680 Speaker 1: the last couple of years doing and talking about and 1669 01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:47,200 Speaker 1: and people are getting better at it as as they're 1670 01:41:47,240 --> 01:41:49,040 Speaker 1: being educated on how to do it. And it's much 1671 01:41:49,080 --> 01:41:52,559 Speaker 1: more stable and predictable than I ever thought. That bear 1672 01:41:52,760 --> 01:41:54,840 Speaker 1: right there was the first bear that I ever killed, 1673 01:41:55,360 --> 01:41:59,559 Speaker 1: uh in national forest on purpose. Um. And that picture 1674 01:41:59,640 --> 01:42:03,160 Speaker 1: behind it right where I killed it. Yeah, that that 1675 01:42:03,360 --> 01:42:05,880 Speaker 1: that looks a lot like the ozarks, minus your rocks 1676 01:42:05,920 --> 01:42:08,600 Speaker 1: look a little bit more smooth than our, little bit 1677 01:42:08,640 --> 01:42:12,559 Speaker 1: more so regional, you know, like different places the rocks 1678 01:42:12,960 --> 01:42:16,240 Speaker 1: very But now that that bear was right there, Um, 1679 01:42:16,800 --> 01:42:19,439 Speaker 1: so I'm with you at them. It's gonna be a 1680 01:42:19,560 --> 01:42:22,840 Speaker 1: low odds hunt. I think some people will kill some. 1681 01:42:23,320 --> 01:42:25,960 Speaker 1: But they had to go with that strategy though, I mean, 1682 01:42:26,000 --> 01:42:28,080 Speaker 1: they didn't want to start off that they're starting at 1683 01:42:28,120 --> 01:42:32,040 Speaker 1: the making it as absolute hard as possible, which that's 1684 01:42:32,040 --> 01:42:34,519 Speaker 1: a total that's a that's a great strategy for bears 1685 01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:38,160 Speaker 1: because bears are you know, low reproductive rates. The females 1686 01:42:38,200 --> 01:42:40,479 Speaker 1: don't start reproducing to their three or four years old 1687 01:42:40,600 --> 01:42:43,920 Speaker 1: and then they only produced cups every two years or 1688 01:42:43,920 --> 01:42:47,200 Speaker 1: something like that. Yeah, yeah, and that's a that's not 1689 01:42:47,360 --> 01:42:49,800 Speaker 1: a super that's pretty average. So it's not like this 1690 01:42:49,920 --> 01:42:53,840 Speaker 1: population is just like growing exponentially. I think you'll see 1691 01:42:53,840 --> 01:42:56,920 Speaker 1: a time when it does. They're parts of Arkansas that 1692 01:42:57,000 --> 01:43:00,439 Speaker 1: are growing by eighteen percent per year myer means, which 1693 01:43:00,520 --> 01:43:04,559 Speaker 1: is incredible. And like because these big you know, large 1694 01:43:04,600 --> 01:43:08,120 Speaker 1: carnivore pipe they just just don't they don't naturally need 1695 01:43:08,200 --> 01:43:11,479 Speaker 1: to produce. Like you know, a dophon can give birth 1696 01:43:11,760 --> 01:43:14,559 Speaker 1: her first year of life. She can come into heat 1697 01:43:14,560 --> 01:43:16,839 Speaker 1: when she's six months old, be bread and have twins 1698 01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:20,240 Speaker 1: the next spring. I mean it's possible. Yeah, So bears 1699 01:43:20,280 --> 01:43:24,320 Speaker 1: are not like that, so they manage them conservatively. So anyway, 1700 01:43:24,320 --> 01:43:25,760 Speaker 1: I think I think they're doing a good job. It's 1701 01:43:25,800 --> 01:43:28,800 Speaker 1: gonna be super tough yea. But could you imagine if 1702 01:43:28,840 --> 01:43:31,519 Speaker 1: they if they allowed you to bait out the gate 1703 01:43:31,640 --> 01:43:36,280 Speaker 1: then but then change the regulation and took it away. Yeah, 1704 01:43:36,439 --> 01:43:39,439 Speaker 1: that would that would cost even worse. It would big 1705 01:43:39,600 --> 01:43:44,360 Speaker 1: political problems. Yeah. I think I predict that maybe one 1706 01:43:44,479 --> 01:43:47,880 Speaker 1: day they would have a bait on private land hunt, 1707 01:43:48,120 --> 01:43:51,640 Speaker 1: just because that's what Arkansas and Oklahoma have done pretty successfully, 1708 01:43:52,240 --> 01:43:56,280 Speaker 1: really successfully. And but our populations are so big, like 1709 01:43:56,640 --> 01:43:58,839 Speaker 1: the reason. And here's what a lot of people don't understand. 1710 01:43:58,840 --> 01:44:01,240 Speaker 1: We preached on the podcast all the time. Where you 1711 01:44:01,320 --> 01:44:05,320 Speaker 1: can bait bear in North America is because there is 1712 01:44:05,400 --> 01:44:07,880 Speaker 1: no other effective way to manage them. I mean, like 1713 01:44:08,200 --> 01:44:11,680 Speaker 1: where you can spot and stock bears usually and they 1714 01:44:11,760 --> 01:44:13,880 Speaker 1: can harvest the number of bears they need to harvest 1715 01:44:14,000 --> 01:44:17,200 Speaker 1: by spot and stock. Then that's what they let them do. Man, 1716 01:44:17,600 --> 01:44:21,280 Speaker 1: in Arkansas, our population is growing so much. I mean, 1717 01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:24,400 Speaker 1: we currently have a population six thousand bears in Arkansas 1718 01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:27,320 Speaker 1: and we've been knocking the fire out of them for 1719 01:44:27,439 --> 01:44:31,280 Speaker 1: twenty years. I mean, if we had not taken out 1720 01:44:31,439 --> 01:44:33,679 Speaker 1: three to four hundred bears a year for the last 1721 01:44:33,720 --> 01:44:38,160 Speaker 1: twenty years, I mean, bears will be overrunning this place. 1722 01:44:38,280 --> 01:44:42,240 Speaker 1: We'd all have one beating down our absolutely would. And 1723 01:44:42,360 --> 01:44:45,240 Speaker 1: so so it's such a win win for sportsman when 1724 01:44:45,280 --> 01:44:48,760 Speaker 1: you can manage a population keep it under control relative 1725 01:44:48,840 --> 01:44:51,120 Speaker 1: to the amount of habitat that we have. Didn't have 1726 01:44:51,160 --> 01:44:54,880 Speaker 1: any idea how much UH money comes in with tags, 1727 01:44:54,960 --> 01:44:57,920 Speaker 1: And for Arkansas, it's hard to track bear hunters because 1728 01:44:57,920 --> 01:45:00,519 Speaker 1: everybody that buys a tag has a bear tag. So 1729 01:45:00,600 --> 01:45:03,280 Speaker 1: I mean, like you buy Arkansas Sportsn's license, you get 1730 01:45:03,400 --> 01:45:07,400 Speaker 1: sixty or two turkeys a bear. You know, all the 1731 01:45:07,640 --> 01:45:09,920 Speaker 1: all the small games, handing out tacks like it's candy 1732 01:45:10,040 --> 01:45:13,720 Speaker 1: in here. It is there. It's a good state for 1733 01:45:14,479 --> 01:45:22,240 Speaker 1: actually it's a terrible state. Slow down. Oh hey, thanks 1734 01:45:22,280 --> 01:45:25,320 Speaker 1: so much, guys. I really appreciate it than what you 1735 01:45:25,400 --> 01:45:27,160 Speaker 1: guys are doing. The people can find you, guys that 1736 01:45:27,280 --> 01:45:29,800 Speaker 1: Landing Legacy, Landing Legacy and now y'all would have like 1737 01:45:29,920 --> 01:45:33,519 Speaker 1: personal Instagram pages to you or no? So uh I 1738 01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:37,240 Speaker 1: think Adam Keith something like that. I only posted photos 1739 01:45:37,600 --> 01:45:42,439 Speaker 1: like one Legacy Legacy. Okay, do you want to see 1740 01:45:42,439 --> 01:45:48,679 Speaker 1: Adam's daughter? Yeah? So yeah, Landing Legacy and Man almost 1741 01:45:48,720 --> 01:45:52,000 Speaker 1: started off the podcast by talking about your podcast. You guys, 1742 01:45:52,760 --> 01:45:55,040 Speaker 1: you haven't made six hundred episodes of your podcast? Have 1743 01:45:55,160 --> 01:45:59,760 Speaker 1: you too? Why are you number in your episodes? It's 1744 01:45:59,840 --> 01:46:04,240 Speaker 1: like six d I think that's Johnson. I don't know. 1745 01:46:04,600 --> 01:46:08,360 Speaker 1: I don't know. You've made like two ding well been 1746 01:46:08,560 --> 01:46:11,560 Speaker 1: doing for three and a half years or so, and 1747 01:46:12,200 --> 01:46:17,200 Speaker 1: every week to two weeks. I appreciate the persistency. So 1748 01:46:19,120 --> 01:46:21,360 Speaker 1: I'll end up have said this before because I'll say 1749 01:46:21,400 --> 01:46:23,760 Speaker 1: this in the intro that I do. But like your 1750 01:46:23,800 --> 01:46:28,599 Speaker 1: podcast is full of it's like it's like information driven. 1751 01:46:29,520 --> 01:46:34,080 Speaker 1: Um so, like our podcast is like more like conversational 1752 01:46:34,280 --> 01:46:37,000 Speaker 1: like long you know, we're not as much like we 1753 01:46:37,160 --> 01:46:41,720 Speaker 1: do some tip driven tactical stuff for sure, but but 1754 01:46:41,920 --> 01:46:44,800 Speaker 1: you guys is more of a format of we're given 1755 01:46:44,840 --> 01:46:48,280 Speaker 1: infort we have topics and we're given information, which is great, 1756 01:46:48,360 --> 01:46:51,840 Speaker 1: and they're usually shorter, uh you know, under an hour 1757 01:46:52,040 --> 01:46:57,919 Speaker 1: most of them anywhere. From Yeah, so man, tons of information. 1758 01:46:58,040 --> 01:47:00,040 Speaker 1: That's part of the reason I didn't necessarily want to 1759 01:47:00,439 --> 01:47:03,000 Speaker 1: go into like a specific topic on this party, because 1760 01:47:03,000 --> 01:47:05,559 Speaker 1: you guys have covered so much. People can go back 1761 01:47:05,640 --> 01:47:08,080 Speaker 1: and and look at all your stuff and and learn 1762 01:47:08,160 --> 01:47:10,519 Speaker 1: a ton you really can't. You guys are doing a 1763 01:47:10,600 --> 01:47:14,600 Speaker 1: great job I think of just disseminating really solid information. 1764 01:47:16,439 --> 01:47:20,120 Speaker 1: You really are and uh so, yeah, keep doing it. 1765 01:47:20,280 --> 01:47:21,960 Speaker 1: Good luck with that big buck this year. Do you 1766 01:47:22,000 --> 01:47:27,519 Speaker 1: all both hunt in the same place? You let him hunt? We? Yeah, 1767 01:47:27,520 --> 01:47:29,679 Speaker 1: And I just I just leased a hundred and sixty 1768 01:47:29,760 --> 01:47:32,880 Speaker 1: acres and um, I don't know. It was the second 1769 01:47:32,960 --> 01:47:34,840 Speaker 1: night of putting cameras out. There's a good one there. 1770 01:47:34,880 --> 01:47:38,280 Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, alright, alright, my brother and I are 1771 01:47:38,320 --> 01:47:40,519 Speaker 1: working on buying that farm, right now so out from 1772 01:47:42,600 --> 01:47:51,920 Speaker 1: but he's sitting Yeah. Yeah, but but no, no, you're 1773 01:47:52,000 --> 01:47:54,560 Speaker 1: trying to buy the least that he no, no, no, no, no, no, 1774 01:47:54,680 --> 01:48:01,840 Speaker 1: no no, no, the least try there. Him and his 1775 01:48:01,960 --> 01:48:05,400 Speaker 1: brother are purchasing the lane that's next to their family farm. Okay, 1776 01:48:05,520 --> 01:48:10,000 Speaker 1: and so okay, yeah, no no, yeah, was interesting story 1777 01:48:10,000 --> 01:48:12,360 Speaker 1: about a family farm. Not to go off on another 1778 01:48:12,439 --> 01:48:14,560 Speaker 1: rabbit trail, but you know it's it's been on. My 1779 01:48:14,600 --> 01:48:18,400 Speaker 1: grandpa and great grandpa and a nineteen sold it to 1780 01:48:18,560 --> 01:48:22,360 Speaker 1: Stark Brothers of Fruit Tree Company. You ever heard of 1781 01:48:22,439 --> 01:48:24,519 Speaker 1: fruit the fruit trees, but sold it for a thousand 1782 01:48:24,600 --> 01:48:28,760 Speaker 1: fruit trees. Grandpa bought it back two so it's been 1783 01:48:28,760 --> 01:48:30,479 Speaker 1: in the family farm ever since. My brother and not 1784 01:48:30,560 --> 01:48:33,960 Speaker 1: trying to expand it and buy the neighboring property. That's cool. 1785 01:48:34,439 --> 01:48:39,200 Speaker 1: Thousand fruit trees. Trying to buy it for a lot 1786 01:48:39,280 --> 01:48:41,640 Speaker 1: of fruit trees. That's part of the world. Its a 1787 01:48:41,960 --> 01:48:47,960 Speaker 1: fuel North America with apples. Yeah, like in the huge 1788 01:48:48,120 --> 01:48:54,880 Speaker 1: orchards first twenty years of the twentie century, early d Yeah. 1789 01:48:55,000 --> 01:48:57,240 Speaker 1: Do you have many short leaved pines around here where 1790 01:48:57,280 --> 01:49:00,880 Speaker 1: you're not like right here, you get twenty five miles away, 1791 01:49:01,080 --> 01:49:04,160 Speaker 1: they get cut out, or they just aren't here, man I. 1792 01:49:04,960 --> 01:49:07,400 Speaker 1: You drive from here to Fort Smith in the winter 1793 01:49:07,720 --> 01:49:10,519 Speaker 1: and see a lot of it's not all public land, 1794 01:49:10,600 --> 01:49:14,160 Speaker 1: but it's pretty just native ozarks. You won't see a 1795 01:49:14,200 --> 01:49:24,559 Speaker 1: pine tree. Did he say native ozarks? This he has 1796 01:49:24,600 --> 01:49:29,559 Speaker 1: not listened to the podcast. Well, all right, thanks guys, 1797 01:49:30,400 --> 01:49:33,200 Speaker 1: keep the wild less wild because that's where the bears 1798 01:49:33,280 --> 01:49:35,680 Speaker 1: live and we got to get the Japanese have a 1799 01:49:35,720 --> 01:49:36,160 Speaker 1: suckle out.