Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio NEWSOM. I'm Nancy Cook, a
Speaker 1: senior national political correspondent for Bloomberg News, in for Stephanie Flanders.
Speaker 1: This week, Welcome to trump Anomics, the Bloomberg podcast that
Speaker 1: looks at the economic world of Donald Trump, how he
Speaker 1: has already shaped the global economy and what on earth
Speaker 1: is going to happen next. So this week we're bringing
Speaker 1: the focus back from Europe and the Middle East and
Speaker 1: asking a question that centers around the mood on Wall Street.
Speaker 1: Our bankers still celebrating Trump's return. What does the way
Speaker 1: Wall Street is moving money tell us about their feelings
Speaker 1: with me from our offices in New York. Are our
Speaker 1: two star reporters from our finance team, schreidhar naderin our
Speaker 1: chief Wall Street correspondent. Welcome Stree. I thought of you
Speaker 1: as soon as I wanted to do this story because
Speaker 1: we had so much fun together at the Democratic National
Speaker 1: Convention in August.
Speaker 2: And how different was the mood back then. I think
Speaker 2: I remember we were tripsing through that convention floor with
Speaker 2: all the balloons falling down. Unfortunately for the Democrats, that
Speaker 2: mood did not carry over into November.
Speaker 1: You are so right. And then Hannah Lovett, who covers
Speaker 1: JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley and has been speaking with
Speaker 1: a lot of executives in the last few months. Welcome Hannah, Hey,
Speaker 1: thank you for having me. Of course, so it's probably
Speaker 1: worth remembering. We got an early read on how bank
Speaker 1: executives were viewing Donald Trump's return to the White House
Speaker 1: at the World Economic Forum in Davos this year. They were,
Speaker 1: for the most part elated about the prospect of fewer
Speaker 1: regulations and more deals. The consensus was a market focused
Speaker 1: deal maker was at the helm of the US economy
Speaker 1: and that would present a new era of opportunity with
Speaker 1: money to be made. So here we are, roughly one
Speaker 1: month later, and how to finance executives feel now and
Speaker 1: what can we learn beyond the rhetoric and more the
Speaker 1: actual trades. Sree, why don't we start with you?
Speaker 2: If you want a good proxy for feelings and vibes
Speaker 2: on Wall Street, I think the best indicator is obviously
Speaker 2: the stock price for those individual companies and their firms.
Speaker 2: And if you look at what's happened since November fifth,
Speaker 2: since the night of the election, we've pretty much had
Speaker 2: a consistent charge up on some of the major stocks
Speaker 2: Goldman Sachs all time high, JP, Morgan all time high.
Speaker 2: The private equity stocks have also been climbing since November.
Speaker 2: So the feeling there at least the immediate reaction to
Speaker 2: the result has been this will be good for big business,
Speaker 2: This will be good for big Wall Street. One of
Speaker 2: the points you just mentioned was deal making. We've so
Speaker 2: far had about five hundred and sixty billion dollars worth
Speaker 2: of deals announced globally quarter to date, which is a
Speaker 2: decent number. But if I go back to Q one
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, that number was nine hundred and sixty billion.
Speaker 2: That explains why. When Wall Street executors were talking at
Speaker 2: a major financial services conference last week, one of the
Speaker 2: questions that analysts kept asking them was, you've all talked
Speaker 2: about this pickup and deal making, Why has it not
Speaker 2: really materialized. It feels slower than it should be, And
Speaker 2: the answer was truly, yes, it is slower. We're having
Speaker 2: a lot more conversations. A lot of these dealmaking discussions
Speaker 2: are at the five yard line. They've just not converted.
Speaker 2: You could have the gusher open anytime. But it does
Speaker 2: go back to the idea that yes, there are a
Speaker 2: lot of things about the Trump administration and the way
Speaker 2: they talk to big business and about big business that
Speaker 2: automatically generates this sense of enthusiasm and hope for these companies.
Speaker 2: But there is also the Trumpian policy uncertainty that they
Speaker 2: have to deal with. When you have all the questions
Speaker 2: about tariffs and it attacks policy changing one day to
Speaker 2: the other, and Trump's attention span going from his one
Speaker 2: favorite subject to perhaps something else the next day, and
Speaker 2: not showing which one will come through and which one
Speaker 2: will fall by the wayside. That does create a little
Speaker 2: bit of an obstacle for business, and they'll have to
Speaker 2: figure out a good way to navigate it.
Speaker 1: On that, Hannah, you've been talking to a lot of executives.
Speaker 1: I wonder how they're feeling about that point that Tree
Speaker 1: brings up about the tariffs. You know, I know that
Speaker 1: they are excited about the possibility of lower taxes and
Speaker 1: less regulation. But the tariff policy, my reporting shows it
Speaker 1: is really uncertain, And I wonder how executives are feeling
Speaker 1: about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, So, I would say to Shred's point, there's
Speaker 3: still broadly this palpable optimism. Various bank executives have described
Speaker 3: it as animal spirits and all of that. But it's
Speaker 3: a bit more CAVEATD today than it was a couple
Speaker 3: months ago and even a few weeks ago before inauguration,
Speaker 3: and that really stems from just kind of all the
Speaker 3: uncertainty and some of these executives, you know, whether it
Speaker 3: be bank executives or you know, CEOs of companies that
Speaker 3: they bank and things like that, they need more certainty
Speaker 3: before they move forward with these strategic actions like you know,
Speaker 3: deals or IPOs and all of that. And the tariffs
Speaker 3: are an element of that. You know. I covered JP Morgan,
Speaker 3: as you said, and Jamie Diamond, the CEO there, said
Speaker 3: last month that tariffs, if they're properly used, can be
Speaker 3: effective to resolve things like unfair competition, national security things
Speaker 3: like that, but they can also do damage if they're misused.
Speaker 3: And he's described Trump as a negotiator and said that
Speaker 3: tariff talk will get people to the table. But I
Speaker 3: think there's a bit of a wait and see attitude
Speaker 3: as far as how all of that shakes out now.
Speaker 3: On the market side, though, the you know, these banks
Speaker 3: have these huge trading desks, and it spells more of
Speaker 3: an opportunity on that, you know, market moves, volatility, you
Speaker 3: know that that translates generally into banks making money on
Speaker 3: those trades. So that has continued. We saw some of
Speaker 3: that in the fourth quarter, and it seems like that's
Speaker 3: continued into the first quarter.
Speaker 2: And if I could quickly jump in and thinking back
Speaker 2: to the time when Hannah and I started working together
Speaker 2: about seven years ago, now there was this predominant concept,
Speaker 2: you know, when we talked about volatility in markets and
Speaker 2: how it impacted the trading desk, the markets businesses of
Speaker 2: these big banks. The talk was always around whether it's
Speaker 2: good volatility or bad volatility. Funnily enough, I think in
Speaker 2: the last couple of years, especially with a lot of
Speaker 2: changes that have been made, banks have gotten themselves into
Speaker 2: a position where and look, if there is a massive
Speaker 2: market correction, yes, they would also be affected because they're
Speaker 2: in the business of buying from one party and selling
Speaker 2: to another party. So if there are massive moves, they
Speaker 2: will be affected. But the businesses have been structured in
Speaker 2: a way that it's almost their ability to make money,
Speaker 2: their ability to transact and the revenue is almost dependent
Speaker 2: on the volume and less so on the direction of markets.
Speaker 2: And upmarket obviously helps so in general, if you look
Speaker 2: at this idea that you will have a higher uptick
Speaker 2: in volatility over the next few months, next few quarters,
Speaker 2: or perhaps throughout Trump two point zero, that will generally
Speaker 2: be good for a lot of these trading businesses. And
Speaker 2: for the biggest Wall Street firms, that is a big
Speaker 2: source of revenue, That is a major source of earnings
Speaker 2: for them.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And I would just say JP Morgan, which has
Speaker 3: the biggest trading business on Wall Street, they had their
Speaker 3: highest fourth quarter trading revenue ever when they reported in
Speaker 3: mid January. And so that's the level of momentum that
Speaker 3: executives have since described as continuing. And I was speaking
Speaker 3: to a bank executive earlier today actually who said market
Speaker 3: movements are generally good for Wall Street unless it's a shock.
Speaker 3: So I think that really sums up, you know, ratifies
Speaker 3: what she was saying.
Speaker 1: And then I'm also curious, sort of who are the
Speaker 1: Wall Street whispers in the Trump White House. I know
Speaker 1: a big complaint of the Biden White House was that
Speaker 1: they did not have a lot of connections to Wall Street,
Speaker 1: and so I'm wondering what you're hearing about those two things.
Speaker 2: Let me first start with the second part of your question, Nancy, So,
Speaker 2: I think when we think about some of the key
Speaker 2: characters in the Trump orbit, Susie Wilds played a massive
Speaker 2: role in sort of the campaign and now at the
Speaker 2: White House. She is perhaps one of the few people
Speaker 2: in that immediate Trump circle, in that immediate group of
Speaker 2: decision makers and Trump world, who's not that well known
Speaker 2: to Wall Street. She doesn't really come from that background.
Speaker 2: Not a lot of people have had time to build
Speaker 2: connections with her. But if you move past Susie Wills,
Speaker 2: you look at the cost of other characters, Howard Lutnik,
Speaker 2: extremely well known to Wall Street, Scott Besson creature of
Speaker 2: Wall Street, extremely well known to all the major players,
Speaker 2: that even folks like Doug Bergham have been like big
Speaker 2: clients of firms like Goldman Sachs over the years. So
Speaker 2: there are enough folks in that orbit that you're very,
Speaker 2: very unlikely to hear the same complaint about this administration
Speaker 2: as you heard about the Biden administration about not having
Speaker 2: someone in there who would take their phone call, who
Speaker 2: would take a meeting with them. That's not going to
Speaker 2: be a problem in terms of what these folks are doing,
Speaker 2: what these players are doing. I was just thinking about
Speaker 2: a few memes. Hannah and I were swapping over the
Speaker 2: last couple of days about Jamie Diamond going down to
Speaker 2: Capitol Hill, and you know, folks wanted him to comment
Speaker 2: on the dismantling of the CFPB, I think, and he said,
Speaker 2: no comment, and then he pulled out this chart that
Speaker 2: he carries with him, his famous spaghetti chart that shows
Speaker 2: this wide area of regulators and the oversight they have
Speaker 2: over JP Morgan. That has been Jamie Diamond's pet pee
Speaker 2: for a long time. And it's funny that it almost
Speaker 2: has a printed outslide that he carries with him every
Speaker 2: time he goes from New York to DC. In fact,
Speaker 2: I know Hannah has some interesting color on the backstory
Speaker 2: of this chart.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, he does bring it with him, and it's
Speaker 3: funny because it was actually originally in his twenty eleven
Speaker 3: letter to shareholders, so you know, it's more than ten
Speaker 3: years that he's had this with him. They call it
Speaker 3: the spaghetti chart kind of informally, and it has all
Speaker 3: these agencies and what they oversee and all the kind
Speaker 3: of interconnecting lines, and you know, I'm looking it right now,
Speaker 3: it's quite clear why it's called the spaghetti chart. But yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, the complaint on Wall Street over the years
Speaker 3: has been that there are too many cooks in the
Speaker 3: kitchen basically on Wall Street overside. And so yeah, when
Speaker 3: they went, when the bank CEOs went to DC last week,
Speaker 3: it is not surprising to me at all that Jamie
Speaker 3: had this chart with him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one thing that I would like to think about.
Speaker 2: And it's something that maybe too if you can weigh on,
Speaker 2: is I think the biggest firms on Wall Street, the
Speaker 2: biggest banks, for instance, had gotten used to Jamie Diamond's
Speaker 2: ten year old beef a side with the regulatory agenda,
Speaker 2: had gotten used to this idea that they had to
Speaker 2: invest a lot for the regulatory needs, for the regulatory requirements.
Speaker 2: But effectively what they did was also build this wide,
Speaker 2: deep moat because most other people cannot come in and
Speaker 2: play on your turf. They if the cost of entering
Speaker 2: that business is prohibitively high. That has helped especially and
Speaker 2: I think about like the key trading businesses and some
Speaker 2: of the other key businesses that are two, three, four
Speaker 2: top players. Everyone else sort of sits outside that mode.
Speaker 2: So they've benefited greatly from that. So if you have
Speaker 2: a rapid unraveling of the regulatory agenda, doesn't it in
Speaker 2: some way backfire for these biggest players.
Speaker 1: That's a wonderful point, Hannah. Do you have any insight
Speaker 1: into them?
Speaker 3: The way that I've heard it described over the years
Speaker 3: is kind of death by a thousand cuts from the banks,
Speaker 3: which is perhaps a bit dramatic, but basically, if you
Speaker 3: go business by business, there are companies, non banks that
Speaker 3: have been able to play in that realm in a
Speaker 3: big way, but not you know, there haven't been new
Speaker 3: entrance to the kind of full on big bank systemically
Speaker 3: important category. So yeah, I think it's kind of tbd
Speaker 3: how that all shakes out, you know, in a world
Speaker 3: where there's a lot of deregulation, which you know, lets
Speaker 3: the banks do more but also lowers those barrier centry.
Speaker 1: That's a great point. And just from where I sit
Speaker 1: in Washington, you know, having done a lot of reporting
Speaker 1: in the last week on elon mus stoge efforts, so
Speaker 1: much of that group is staff by you know, tech
Speaker 1: people who I think do want to you know, less regulation,
Speaker 1: but they also want to sort of upset establish business
Speaker 1: and the status quo, and so that is quite interesting.
Speaker 1: I think that you know, just the idea that it
Speaker 1: would make it easier for other companies to come in.
Speaker 1: One of you brought up Scott Besson, who is a
Speaker 1: former hedge funder and who is now Treasury Secretary. That's
Speaker 1: going to be such a key role this year as
Speaker 1: I think about cutting taxes again, I wonder how his
Speaker 1: tenure is being viewed so far by by finance executives.
Speaker 2: I think so far they have no complaints. Scott Besson's
Speaker 2: proved to be exactly what they thought he would be.
Speaker 2: They see him as a bit of a moderating influence
Speaker 2: in Trump World. Of course, that might not really win
Speaker 2: you a lot of kudos and Trump World itself, and
Speaker 2: Scott Besson will perhaps have to do more to prove
Speaker 2: himself in Trump's in a circle, make sure he's spending
Speaker 2: more of his weekends now mar Lago instead of back
Speaker 2: at home in South Carolina. But for Wall Street and
Speaker 2: for markets in general, Scott Bessen was a choice that
Speaker 2: they all cheered, that they all welcome. They realize this
Speaker 2: is someone whose business focus, whose markets focus, and they
Speaker 2: could get behind this pick. Scott Pasant in that position
Speaker 2: is good for Wall Street, And when you think about
Speaker 2: the key proposals about taxes, lowering tax rates. Yes, Scott
Speaker 2: Bessand will champion that. The question though, is is it
Speaker 2: going to be Scott Besant who makes sure that the
Speaker 2: tax cut policy actually makes its way through Congress. I
Speaker 2: don't know how much of a say in power he
Speaker 2: will have that, especially when you consider a Congress where,
Speaker 2: especially in the House, the Republicans have a very very
Speaker 2: slim majority, and you've already seen that there are various
Speaker 2: factions today's GOP. There half the times they're battling the Democrats,
Speaker 2: but most of the times in America, majority of the
Speaker 2: time they're battling their own different factions within the GOP.
Speaker 2: And they have to figure out a way to put
Speaker 2: forward a unified front. And that is important for Wall Street.
Speaker 2: I was just looking at some numbers before coming on here.
Speaker 2: When you look at pre tax earnings that a Goldman
Speaker 2: Sachs at a Morgan Stanley, that's about twenty billion dollars
Speaker 2: a year. Let's say you can cut corporate tax rates,
Speaker 2: their effective tax rate can go down by five percent,
Speaker 2: you know, just making up a scenario which a nice
Speaker 2: round number like Donald Trump would prefer, that's about a
Speaker 2: billion dollars in savings. A billion dollars in savings is
Speaker 2: you could have a twenty thirty forty percent slow down
Speaker 2: in deal making and therefore the fees that they make
Speaker 2: from that advisory business that you know, one of the
Speaker 2: key components they've been talking about when they talk about
Speaker 2: this turbocharge deal making environment. You could still have a big,
Speaker 2: massive slow down there, and yet that savings from the
Speaker 2: tax cuts could offset that. That's how important the tax
Speaker 2: cut agenda will be for these big banks. So they
Speaker 2: would hope that Scott Besson could work his magic. More importantly,
Speaker 2: they would pray for unity within GP ranks for that
Speaker 2: to come through.
Speaker 1: Howard Lutnik is the Commerce Secretary. He wanted to be
Speaker 1: Treasury Secretary, but Trump passed him over. He has given
Speaker 1: him a powerful perch where he's in charge of all
Speaker 1: the tariffs. Howard Lutnik is a very familiar character to
Speaker 1: you all because he ran Canter Fitzgerald. But what should
Speaker 1: Washington d C. Know about the way Howard Lutnik operates
Speaker 1: as he sort of takes over a huge portfolio here.
Speaker 2: The most interesting dynamic about Howard Lutnik was how he
Speaker 2: almost Dick cheneyed himself in the leading the hunt for
Speaker 2: the Treasury secretary, only to say maybe I would be
Speaker 2: the best Treasury secretary. So the first few weeks, especially
Speaker 2: during the transition months, a lot of the talk in
Speaker 2: town was about this warring dynamic between Scott Bessant and
Speaker 2: Howard Lutnik. That's obviously not a good look in an
Speaker 2: administration that's so focused on these items of tariff's, tax's,
Speaker 2: deregulations and whatnot. You know that this person in the
Speaker 2: Commerce seat and the person in the Treasury seat have
Speaker 2: to work hand in hand. They've even been given this
Speaker 2: mandate of figuring out how to create this sovereign wealth
Speaker 2: fund that also involves a lot of Scott Beson and
Speaker 2: Lutnick working together. And I think Kevin has it involved
Speaker 2: there as well. So more than how he operates on
Speaker 2: Wall Street, which again he will say and do things
Speaker 2: that are generally appreciated by Wall Street. He is from
Speaker 2: New York. He's an old time fixture. He knows everyone
Speaker 2: in the city, so he knows all of Wall Street.
Speaker 2: That all works just fine. In fact, much like Trump,
Speaker 2: he was also a one time Hillary Clinton fundraiser and
Speaker 2: now he's Team Trump. Much like Donald Trump is now
Speaker 2: Team Trump after once being a Hillary Currenton fundraiser. But
Speaker 2: the fact remains that Wall Street will have no issues
Speaker 2: with Lutnick. It's more whether Lutnik can navigate the dynamics
Speaker 2: of getting along with everyone in Team Trump, especially someone
Speaker 2: like Scott Beson, to be able to push through the agenda,
Speaker 2: the ambitious agenda that they need to push through, in
Speaker 2: a way that does not rattle markets, in a way
Speaker 2: that also is fiscally responsible. You know, they talk about
Speaker 2: the ballooning debt burden, but when you think about the
Speaker 2: deregulatory agenda and the massive tax cuts that they're trying
Speaker 2: to push through, that will have an impact on the deficits.
Speaker 2: So how do you offset for all of that? It
Speaker 2: will require a lot of careful planning with the rank
Speaker 2: and file of the GOP in Congress, with the various
Speaker 2: administration members, and with the various cabinet members. That's the
Speaker 2: dynamic that Lutnik will have to be focused on, because
Speaker 2: that will be a difficult needle to thread.
Speaker 3: Steve Minuchin was Treasury Secretary in Trump's first term, and
Speaker 3: Wall Street executives liked him then, and they looked back
Speaker 3: fondly on his tenure. You know, he was there the
Speaker 3: whole time. He was seen as kind of a steady
Speaker 3: presence in that world, and it's someone who they recognize
Speaker 3: and that goes a long way. And so I would
Speaker 3: say that with both Bessen and Lutnik now it's a
Speaker 3: similar dynamic.
Speaker 1: I'm so curious to see how Lutink fares because just
Speaker 1: as a political reporter, he made a bunch of Trump people,
Speaker 1: you know, on the politics side of things, quite angry
Speaker 1: during the transition when he sort of ran roughshot over
Speaker 1: things and put his own name up for Treasury secretary.
Speaker 1: So I am I asked, because I am really watching
Speaker 1: sort of how he operates in a political environment. One
Speaker 1: final question, and Hannah, I want to go to you first.
Speaker 1: I am curious. You know, there's so much political geo
Speaker 1: instability right now. You know, we are trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what's going to happen with the end of the
Speaker 1: war in Ukraine. As Trump thinks about that, it's very
Speaker 1: uncertain what his relationship with Heran will be like. He
Speaker 1: has said that he wants all the Palestinians to leave Gaza.
Speaker 1: There's just a lot of big foreign policy questions right now,
Speaker 1: and I'm wondering if that concerns the finance executives that
Speaker 1: you speak to at all and just sort of how
Speaker 1: they're factoring that into their plans for the next year
Speaker 1: or so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it absolutely does. I think the way that that
Speaker 3: translates to the business side of things, or one of
Speaker 3: the ways that that translates is, you know, when you
Speaker 3: look at deals like M and A and the cross
Speaker 3: border aspect of that, are cross border deals getting done.
Speaker 3: And we were talking earlier about the post election euphoria
Speaker 3: that continued, but I was speaking to a bank executive
Speaker 3: last week who was describing it as US firms are
Speaker 3: waiting for the dust to settle. So you know that
Speaker 3: euphoria hasn't been immediately translating. But in Europe there was
Speaker 3: apprehension immediately post election that has turned a bit more
Speaker 3: into how can we get in on US economic growth?
Speaker 3: And then you know in Asia, especially China and Hong Kong,
Speaker 3: there's a sense of it's not as bad as it
Speaker 3: could have been in the early days and weeks. So
Speaker 3: I think that as you're looking across kind of the
Speaker 3: different regions, there are different expectations and then reactions to
Speaker 3: you know, the things that are happening as they happen,
Speaker 3: but it is there is still broad sense that it's
Speaker 3: early days in this administration. People are kind of waiting
Speaker 3: to see how things shake out.
Speaker 2: I would go back and look at the world economic
Speaker 2: order and say, perhaps since the two thousand and eight
Speaker 2: financial crisis, if you look at different parts of the world,
Speaker 2: Europe massively struggled. Africa is still a growth story but
Speaker 2: has now not hit the breakout phase. Middle East has
Speaker 2: been a bright spot. That have been strong emerging economies
Speaker 2: in Asia, which have had their stumbles once in a while,
Speaker 2: but in general, over the last decade or so, the
Speaker 2: American growth story in some ways has been unparalleled. And
Speaker 2: perhaps that leads to this assumption that America has an
Speaker 2: island onto itself and what happens in the rest of
Speaker 2: the world doesn't necessarily affect the country, And you could
Speaker 2: assume that in a America first focused administration that is
Speaker 2: the predominant thought. But I feel that the world is
Speaker 2: way too interconnected that you can't just overnight snap your
Speaker 2: fingers and say, you know, each one to himself. That
Speaker 2: will be very difficult. So from that perspective, when you
Speaker 2: think about how the geopolitical situation is playing out worldwide.
Speaker 2: If you have a scenario where your enemies remain your
Speaker 2: enemies and you turn your allies into your enemies Que Canada, Q,
Speaker 2: European Union and the big speech from JD Vans or
Speaker 2: the Munich Security Conference over the weekend, she suddenly start
Speaker 2: to distance all of those players who've been your allies,
Speaker 2: who've been part of you know, enabling helping your growth story.
Speaker 2: Then it does reach a situation where it starts to
Speaker 2: worry markets, it starts to worry the big investors, and
Speaker 2: it starts to worry the big films. That is one
Speaker 2: reason why Jamie Diamond's almost been like a broken record
Speaker 2: for the last half a decade talking about how the
Speaker 2: geopolitical risks in the world today are the biggest risk
Speaker 2: faced by the world. To an extent, it almost feels
Speaker 2: like he's been talking about these dark clouds on the
Speaker 2: horizon without any real follow through on that. But he's
Speaker 2: not wrong. Not a lot has to go wrong for
Speaker 2: things to turn in the absolute wrong direction, and that
Speaker 2: will be a cause for worry. And at that time
Speaker 2: you can forget about the cheering on of dealmaking and
Speaker 2: tax cuts and deregular. You have much scarier things to
Speaker 2: worry about.
Speaker 1: What's one thing that you think the listeners should know
Speaker 1: just about Trump and the Wall Street relationship that we
Speaker 1: haven't talked about yet.
Speaker 2: He lives and dies by the market. He judges himself
Speaker 2: by how the markets performed. So he might be wedded
Speaker 2: to a policy, but it almost feels like if the
Speaker 2: market gives it a veryative negative reaction, the sense is
Speaker 2: that Trump will backtrack.
Speaker 3: And that is something that Wall Street executives have almost
Speaker 3: been taking solace in, you know, in recent weeks, and
Speaker 3: probably will continue.
Speaker 2: To do so, maybe almost taking it for granted. Let
Speaker 2: me caveat that by saying that is the assumption on
Speaker 2: Wall Street in the second Trump administration, where it seems
Speaker 2: more untethered from prior norms. It's not entirely clear to
Speaker 2: me that that still will remain his guiding philosophy, but
Speaker 2: at least Wall Street things and hopes and beliefs that
Speaker 2: still remains the guiding principle about Donald Trump when they
Speaker 2: think about Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: That's a great point. I do think this stock market
Speaker 1: was sort of his primary form of polling in his
Speaker 1: first term. But I think you're right I think he
Speaker 1: is a more self assured leader now and fairly confident
Speaker 1: in how he's moving. And so you're right, I'm not
Speaker 1: sure sort of if that if the stock market and
Speaker 1: how it's performing will be a checks and balances on
Speaker 1: him this time. Shre thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: This was wonderful to have you.
Speaker 2: Always great chatting with you.
Speaker 1: Nancy and Hannah, thank you so much. It was great
Speaker 1: to speak with you from New York.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for having us.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this week's trump Andomics from Bloomberg.
Speaker 1: It was hosted by me Nancy Cook. I was joined
Speaker 1: by shridehar Nojeron and Hannah Lovett. Trump Andomics is produced
Speaker 1: by Summer Saudi and Moses Andam with help from Chris
Speaker 1: Martlou Special thanks to Dashel Bennett and Jared Rudderman. Sound
Speaker 1: designed by Blake Maples. Brendan Francis Newman is our executive producer.
Speaker 1: To help others find the show, please rate and review
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 2: Mhmm