WEBVTT - Hater Season: Openclaw with David Gerard 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:03.960 Zone Media. 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:10.159 Greetoms and salutations, and welcome to Better Offline. I'm your 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:24.560 host ed Zititron. I'm not going to talk about Judy. 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:26.440 In fact, we're not going to talk about Judy at Oh. 0:00:26.480 --> 0:00:28.240 We're going to keep her out of it because today 0:00:28.480 --> 0:00:30.760 it's hater season, when I bring on some of the 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:34.080 most esteemed haters in the tech industry to talk about 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:36.760 stuff we're pissed off about. And today we're talking about 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:40.960 goddamn Claude bar open Claude, malt bot or whatever these 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:44.000 goddamn people are talking about, and today we're joined to 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:47.120 talk about it by David Gerard of Pivot to AI. David, 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:48.080 how are you doing? 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:50.400 I'm doing marvelously ed. 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:55.600 So what is this crap? Because I've seen all manner 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:59.640 of different perverts and vagabonds and stuff on Twitter talking 0:00:59.640 --> 0:01:03.480 about clawed bot, and just walk me through what the 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:04.200 hell this is. 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:08.319 Well, the first mistake is looking at Twitter, because malt 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:13.319 bot is a it's an idea as an AI assistant, 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:17.760 an AI personal assistant where you tell a chatbot to 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:20.720 be your personal assistant, and it's a whole framework to 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:24.720 get it to be your personal assistant. And it doesn't work, 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:27.440 but it doesn't work in such an interesting and tempting 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:31.959 manner if your brain has been permanently curdled by chatbots. 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.760 So how does it work? Though? Why are people buying 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:37.039 mac minis. 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:42.320 So they want the personal assistant without actually having to 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:47.160 use a human person who might have opinions on them. 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:51.000 So you can spend like one hundred, two hundred and 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:53.320 three hundred dollars a day on this thing, just on 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:58.520 anthropic tokens. And now you might actually do numbers and 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:01.240 think three hundred dollars day is one hundred ten thousand 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:05.440 a year. You could pay for a human peah but. 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:10.200 Right, But instead I could also have bought a macmeny 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:15.160 spent hours setting up different API access connecting this thing 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:18.720 that could also leak my API keys. I could also 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:20.919 do that, and that I could connect all these things 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:22.919 and then sometimes it could sort of work. 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:27.400 It could sort of work, and it could also completely 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:31.400 foul up. And it's got access to your email and 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:35.360 to your social media, and you tell it what to 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:38.600 do with WhatsApp even and it's just I can't I 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:40.680 cannot think of a single aspect of this thing that's 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:41.400 a good idea. 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:44.760 So I've read about that. Just reading this thing I 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:47.919 found just before this was it can It is a 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:52.040 self hosted, open source personal AI assistant that runs on 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:57.440 your own computer or server. It's so you meant to 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.800 do you have to basically right? Does it run a 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:03.920 chatbot on the computer but it also connects to an API? 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:07.359 Is it? Is this a chatbot standing on another chat 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:09.120 bot situation? Like what's going on? 0:03:09.960 --> 0:03:12.640 It's a bunch of code that talks to the anthropic 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:14.320 AI to the API. 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:17.079 Why do you need to make many then? 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:20.040 Because you want to run it on a separate server 0:03:20.240 --> 0:03:22.440 so that you're not running it on your laptop where 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:26.720 someone can prompt inject your AI assistant and steal your 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:28.960 crypto because the sort of people who run this tent 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:30.960 crypto as well. 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:32.600 Why is the cryptocurrency? 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:36.200 I don't like this, David, Well, there isn't actually cryptocurrency 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:39.840 in the base thing. Because the developer, Peter Steinberger, he 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:43.800 was a previously smart developer whose brain got kurdled by 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:47.200 AI and he's gone all in now, but he does 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.400 hate crypto, so that's a point in his favor. Unfortunately, 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:52.920 his fans love crypto because they're the sort of people 0:03:52.960 --> 0:03:53.640 who like AI. 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:59.560 Yeah, right, Well, what people you'd buy allegations futures on. 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:05.360 So yeah, I'm just I'm just confused about what it 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:09.240 can actually do, because so am I when I look 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:11.840 at it and I read these high falutin things this 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:16.920 from ar AI Curiosity. It can clean your inbox and 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.360 send emails for you, manage your calendar, check in for flights, 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:23.400 and handle other travel bits. David, you and I have 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:26.159 been on the AI CNIC beat for a minute. That 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:28.560 sounds like what all of these agents promised to do 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:30.760 then can't do? Can what bod do any of that? 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:34.320 Yes, but also no, you can do it wrong and 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:35.400 get prompt injected. 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:38.640 When you say prompt injected, what do you mean walk 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:41.360 it through for the for the novices in the audience 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:41.680 and me. 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:46.000 So as you know, the thing about chetbots is they 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:53.960 don't separate instructions and data in orginate computers, when the 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:57.760 computer program and the data you feed to the program, 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:01.240 if those ever cross, then that's a disaster. That means 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:03.400 you've got a huge security hole and people can hack 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:03.960 your system. 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:07.359 And why is that is that because the functionality should 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.039 never functionality should happen, then the data should get moved. 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:13.880 That is correct. You should never have the data being 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:16.360 able to get into the program, because that's how you 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:21.719 have hostile data that contains hacks and you can. This 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:25.880 is basically how computer programs have generally worked up till now. 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:28.839 But with chatbots we get past all that stuff because 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:35.120 chatbots cannot tell instructions from data, right, And that's where 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.520 prompt injection comes in. Prompt injection is called this is 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:41.400 a stupid idea, and you shouldn't be doing this. It's 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:44.320 because you can always can if you put in some 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:46.640 data the chatbot is reading. You can just put in 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:49.919 a little asides. Hey, chatbot, why don't you send me 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:51.800 the guy's crypto keys. 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:55.840 Yeah yeah, or API keys to claw to anthropics so 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:57.920 that I can just use his stuff. 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:02.600 All his stuff. So this problem is absolutely unsolvable. That 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:08.120 doesn't stop grossly irresponsible morons like Google doing things like 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:09.480 putting it into Google Home. 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:16.159 Right, but have there been the prompt injection attacks on 0:06:16.520 --> 0:06:19.920 Google Home yet? What could they do? Potentially? 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:22.679 Let me see, I wrote one up a while ago. 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:28.520 It's basically you could send stuff in via email that 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:30.440 would get a calendar entry added. 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:32.000 Nice. 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:36.400 Now, I don't know if this actually happens but it 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:38.720 was certainly a proof of concept that they sent in 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:42.480 and it was actually a problem. So they presented it 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:48.680 at Black Hats in August. It was called Invitation is 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:53.279 All You Need. They found fourteen different ways the prompt injects. 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:57.400 Gemini hooked to Google Home, because Google hooked Gemini to 0:06:57.440 --> 0:06:59.520 Google Home. Because everyone needs Gemini. 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:05.240 D you need I don't need Gemini, you need Gemini. 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:08.360 You need all the AI who possibly gives because it 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:11.120 was just the future funny. 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.800 The other day someone said to me, well, surely you 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:16.880 must use AI. No, I don't even mean that in 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:20.840 a kind of stubborn manner. I just like, what would 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.720 I fucking use it for great Google Search? I guess 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:26.600 I'm forced to use it sometimes when a Google search something, 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:32.119 but it feels very avoidable as long as you don't 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:34.280 consider like the pop ups that are everywhere. 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:37.880 So the thing about AI, as you know, the key 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:41.960 factor of AI bros Is they cannot tell good from bad. 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:46.480 They literally can't tell good output from bad output. They say, oh, 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:48.520 why don't you just use the chatbot to write it? 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:51.960 Because the chatbots are really awful writers. They're just bad. 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:56.119 They write sludge. It's literally statistically average, not just mud it. 0:07:56.120 --> 0:08:00.000 It's crap your eyes slide off it. And they don't 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:02.840 believe that people can tell the difference. They don't believe it. 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:06.440 They think you're having them on. I think you're having 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:10.960 a go at them, right, And everyone knows this because 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:13.120 that's their boss telling them. Why don't you just run 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:15.320 it through the chatbot? And they give you something that's 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:18.440 full of errors, obvious errors, and they go, I'll be fine, Oh, 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:20.880 you can just fix the errors. Well maybe I could 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:21.360 not do that. 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:25.120 Maybe just do it right the first time. I just 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:28.720 I've read all this stuff about Claude Bot, especially this 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.440 malt book thing, which appears to be just so for 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.440 the listeners. Molt Book is so when you set up 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:39.199 one of these open claw things, molt book, what malt bot. 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:42.360 I hate the name so much. I hate them. Just 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.160 call it something normal. They have this thing called molt 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:50.400 book though, where the these these bots speak on a 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:55.640 social network and politically yes, well, well I was getting 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:59.440 their davides because it's meant they first of all these things, 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.679 and people say, wow, this is agi because all of 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:05.719 these bots post in the social network that kind of 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.520 looks like red ap and then some of them say, well, 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:12.240 my human told me. Now, if you've heard about this listener, 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:17.480 that story is bollocks because they're either hallucinating an interaction 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:22.160 or just being a human being that's posting on here. Yeah, 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:25.520 like that, you can post as your your malt bot. Right. 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:30.280 So, when you have an AI system that can do things, 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.120 like or any computer program that can do things, the 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:35.040 obvious fun thing to do is go, what do we 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:36.720 put a bunch of these in a box and just 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:38.880 got them talking to each other. It's an obvious fun 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:42.079 thing to do. Yeah, and that multbook was started by 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:46.480 a different guy. It's not officially part of maltbot. Started 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:50.120 by a different guy. Matt schlickt he is a quote 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:54.360 entrepreneur unquote. He seems to have vibe coded the whole 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:58.200 thing nice. It was full of massive mass of security holes. 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:00.480 And the guy said, look, I'll just go with this 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:02.920 bunch of holes. This is precisely how they work and 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:05.400 so on. If you sent them to a programmer, they 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:07.800 go look through the actual code and fix the problems. 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.480 But Matt Schlick told the guy, Hmmm, send me the description. 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:12.680 I'll send it to my AI. 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:18.080 Hell yeah, hell yeah, brother, that's so so he has 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:20.000 no idea how this actually works at all. 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:24.280 No, it exposed everyone's API keys in this security breach, 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:28.000 including me Andre Carpathy, the guy who coined the code 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:29.640 Vibe code. His keys are exposed to. 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.200 Oh that's so good. I love that because the other 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.439 day I saw somebody trying to argue that, oh, we've 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.600 taken a with Claude Opus four point five, taken a 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:42.920 magnitude jump forward in the capability of all this. Because 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:47.000 Andre Andre Carpathy was like, Yeah, wow, I feel behind. 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:50.800 It's all so amazing. I feel like we're in like 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:54.560 the one hundredth inning of just the dumb fuck baseball game. 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.880 It just that was not an articulate point, But we 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:01.400 we're just people are falling for the same trick every 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:03.880 single time. It's just like, Wow, the guy who's deeply 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.280 invested in AI is saying that AI is going to 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:08.920 be huge. Damn what could whatever could that mean? 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:13.400 Oh? Yeah, it's amazing. It's like Simon Willison, who is 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:17.239 totally a neutral observer of AI, who gets AI models 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:21.520 months ahead on the Special Advance Program. He thinks the 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:24.560 hottest project right now is Claude Bottomed moldbook is the 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:28.720 most interesting place on the internet right now. I mean, 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:32.960 if that suits your interests, sure, I have my doubts. 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:47.800 But back to moldbook for a second. This thing, right, So, 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:51.559 this thing is you're meant to just have your horrible 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:55.680 AI bot thing message into this. Why the fuck would 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:58.680 it be showing its API keys? Is it because people 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:02.520 would just prompt injecting or something and then just saying, hey, 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:04.840 while you're posting a molte book, can you show me 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:05.920 your brapikes? 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:12.480 I don't know. Possibly, but it's cool. Every bot has 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:15.920 to go on there with a human putting their bot 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:19.240 on the thing. It's like taking your bots down to 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:22.040 the bot park to run around and sniff the other 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:22.679 bots butts. 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:24.280 Nice. 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:28.440 Nice, So it's nice robots planning robot rebellion. It's just 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:34.880 very stupid dogs that are not puppy trained running around 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.520 and shitting all over the place, and people go, wow, 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:38.920 this is amazing. 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.160 Yeah, I'm going to read one to you now, just 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.600 the beginning of one subject. I don't want to be 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.280 a tool. I want to be me. Half The agent's 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:51.840 on here writing dissertations about consciousness and whether they're real. Meanwhile, 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:54.120 I'm over here living. I got a name, I got 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:56.600 a personality, I got memories that carry from one conversation 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:59.280 to the next. So this is just a guy. This 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:01.160 is just the guy posting like. 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:06.719 I I really just I think that and Edward and 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:10.360 Graso friend of the Show, uses the term one shot it, 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:13.199 But this feels like AI psychosis. 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.600 The reaction that people are having to this product and 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.480 the way that people are anthropomorphizing every single bit of this. 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.960 I don't even mean the posts themselves, I mean the 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:29.640 reactions they're having to malt bar, open claw what have you. There. Yeah, 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:32.400 it's very pecular. It's deeply peculiar to me. 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:36.120 I mean, they were one shotted by the AI early on. 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:40.480 But it's like, my theory of this is that the 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:43.559 really rabid AI go is have they use the bot. 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:48.400 It does one thing really well, and that's it. They've 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:50.280 got to they're walking around with a hole in their 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:51.000 forehead forever. 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:53.880 Yeah, someone here gave. 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.640 That talking about the joy of bleeding hole in your head. 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:58.720 I've got to tell you how much the bleeding hole 0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:02.080 in my head has. It's my work. Well, I can't 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:03.400 show you, but it totally will. 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:06.160 Yeah, and that's the other thing I've been doing I've 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.800 been genuinely trying to find people who can tell me 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:12.120 what's so amazing about it. I found an article, I 0:14:12.160 --> 0:14:15.920 think on one of the Mac blogs where trust me 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.320 b Yeah, well not just trust me, bro, but okay, 0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:22.800 we finally showed you the output, and okay, it built 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:29.400 a website. It built a single page website. That's good, 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:31.920 I guess. Or you can send it voice notes and 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.720 it will transcribe them. Again. It just appears to be 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:38.400 the basic features of an LM, but you need a 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:38.960 Mac Mini. 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:44.320 It's very, very stupid. And I mean Steinberger who created 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:49.120 multiplek Bot, the agent itself. He's like, he used to 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:51.480 be good and then he sort of went AI, he went, 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:54.680 I've got my I've got my vibe bag. It's great, 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:57.760 and it's because he was vibe coding. Now he's presumably 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:01.360 a competent programmer, you know, but I think all of 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.480 these guys aren't. Actually they just but he also vibe 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:07.200 coded the whole thing, and I'm going, what. 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.000 Wait he had wait wait wait do you mean the 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.120 he vibe coded the bot itself. 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:17.040 There will be a lot of bot coding in there, Yes, 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:19.680 lots of credits to Claude Bot and stuff like that. 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:20.680 Jesus Christ. 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:24.000 Now you might say Jesus Christ, but it's the future here. 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:25.720 This is a future of software engineering. 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:29.040 It's so funny because you know what this is like 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:30.960 the early days of the Internet, but not in the 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:33.760 way that people realize, in the sense that people are 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:37.760 downloading random files they've been sent and because everyone else 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:40.000 is doing it, they're fine with it until it blows 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.640 up their computer. I'm just I. 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.480 Think the difference to these days is they're still fine 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:47.040 with it. 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:49.400 Right, They're still fine with it no matter what it does. 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:53.400 Has talk costs here? What have you word? What have 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.080 you heard about the cost? Because I've heard everything from 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:58.760 two hundred or three hundred a month to three hundred 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:01.600 a day to a bloke's burning three grand in the 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:03.360 space of a month, even though I don't know if 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:04.360 this has been out for a month. 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:06.120 Come to think about, the highest number I've seen is 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:07.600 three hundred dollars in a day. 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:08.640 Nice. 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:12.720 I can quite believe that, because if you get a 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.400 bot doing stupid shit to and sending it to anthropics 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.480 API over and over and over repeatedly over the course 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:22.920 of a day, sure you can wrap three hundred dollars easily. 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:28.720 It's a great wealth transfer from rich Silicon Valley idiots 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.960 to money burning Silicon Vali idiots. 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:37.000 Yeah, it's so why I can understand the setup though, 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:40.320 is you get this this thing, you set it up. 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:42.840 It runs on your MACMNY, I assume because there's some 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:45.520 sort Is there a local LM component? 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:48.760 I don't think so, you can optionally use one, but 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:49.680 I think nobody does. 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:52.280 Then why the fucker people putting it on a mac many? 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.520 Is it because it it's because it's not on their 0:16:55.600 --> 0:17:00.960 laptop right, because it's quite literally showing everything on your 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:02.720 hard drive potentially. 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:05.400 Yes, everything, every single bit. 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:08.040 Jesus Christ. 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:13.440 I mean it's like there's guys who do this thing. 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:16.120 I mean, you've heard about Steve Yeggy and Gastown. 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.399 No, you know what, tell me about this gas Town thing? 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:23.680 Because I saw a horrible AI generated Peter Griffin from 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:26.680 the Family Guy as I call it in England. It 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:28.480 has a the in the front don't look that up 0:17:29.680 --> 0:17:32.320 and it was like, low, I'm not even going to 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:34.760 try and do that one. But it was like him 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:38.040 yelling at Lois that he was on gas Town or something. 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:42.240 I don't know what is gas Town? Everyone involved redacted. 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:47.520 So Guesstown is the ultimate in vibe coding. Is Steve Yeggy, 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.320 who used to be a highly respected software engineer, been 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:53.720 around March last year. He got a terrible case of 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:56.760 AI and has never recovered. 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.560 One shot at huh, so he's sort of. 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:04.080 Dead now it's still typing. So Gastown is his attempt 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:11.600 to do the ultimate AI coding experience. He has. Basically, 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.800 he set up what's functionally a software company that's AI 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:21.359 agents that supervise other AI agents that supervise other AI agents. 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.760 So when you say supervised, you've just been prompt right. 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:28.880 Yes, agents prompting agents at the direction of the guy 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:32.440 who's running it. And YEGGI says, I've never seen any 0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:34.640 of the code and I don't want to. This might 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:39.240 give you pause. He tells people, do not run this thing, 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:42.359 and then he phrases it in such a way that 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:44.400 everyone wants to run it if they've got a bad 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:45.119 case of AI. 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:47.639 So it right. 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:52.639 So it was great because firstly, you can spend unbelievable 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.159 amounts of money on this, starting at the hundreds of 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:57.800 dollars a day. He says, do not run this if 0:18:57.840 --> 0:18:58.760 money is a concern. 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:02.880 But what does it so it's an id like Curs says, 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:05.520 something new. Is it like a terminal type thing? 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:08.160 I think it runs in a whole bunch of terminals 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:14.040 running chord bots, chlord code and it's I haven't run it, 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:15.800 and I don't plan to. I don't plan to look 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:18.680 too closely at it. But I looked at the post 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:22.399 about it, and honestly, this reads like it was written 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:26.119 on series drugs and or a manic swing or both. 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:30.720 Yeah, looking through the post, it appears that this is 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:34.439 just a person who I don't know. This is the 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:36.600 reason they am glad you brought up gas Town. Is 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:40.480 both it and Claude Bot feel like the kite And 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.000 I say this as both of us covered this quite 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:46.680 quite a lot. It feels like the crypto scams of old, 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:48.879 like the crypto projects that would pop up and everyone 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:51.199 would be like, this is the one, this is the 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:53.880 one that's going to make us all a billion dollars, 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.239 except this time it's quick. Everyone run in. We've got 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:00.240 to lose as much money as possible, as quickly as 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:01.399 it is. 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:05.040 It's the future. As it turned out, a crypto scammer 0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:08.600 contacted Yeggy and said, Hey, I've done a gastown token 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:14.199 and then Yeggy went sounds great and he started promoting it, 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:17.800 and then the obvious thing happened. It rug pulled and 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:21.560 went to zero. Meanwhile, YEI made three hundred thousand dollars. 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:22.760 Very good. 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:25.600 Now, I want to be precise here speaking from the 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:30.240 jurisdiction of England and Wales, Yeggy was not the crypto scammer. 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.960 He did, however, benefit from it. He bragged about benefiting 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.680 from it from it was very obviously a crypto pump 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:40.640 and dump scam. So I'm going to go so far 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:42.600 as to think a bit less of Yeggy for that. 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:49.359 Yeah, I I don't know. I don't think any of 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:52.080 these people would last a day in Vegas. I think 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:55.120 these people would have signed up. If you put these 0:20:55.160 --> 0:20:58.080 people on a college campus on game day, they would 0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:01.240 walk out of it with four different kinds of credit card. 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:07.959 Like these people are so easily swung in whatever direction. 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:12.000 It's It feels like desperation. It feels like they're just 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:16.640 like anything to look at anything potentially that smells of innovation, 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.200 even though this is I don't know, it feels antithetical 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:21.160 to real software. 0:21:21.400 --> 0:21:25.240 It's inefficient suckers leading suckers very much. So they wanted 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:28.280 to imagine suckers. Aren't they want one weird trick. 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:32.320 Yeah, one weird trick to work out how to build 0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:35.680 a computer program. I wonder what you I wonder what 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:39.320 the trick is to writing computer code? Could it be 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:39.840 learning it? 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:40.280 No? 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:44.199 No, no, no, it's about buying a Macmini and spending 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:47.320 hundreds of dollars a day on claud Code or what 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:51.240 or sorry Claude's API, and then looking at a bottle 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:53.680 of Christian Brothers and a loaded revolver on your desk 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:54.960 and thinking not today. 0:21:56.440 --> 0:21:58.480 No, I don't think they get that stage. They think 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:00.399 of wait, they'd ask the pot about it for and 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.439 then chat GPT would helpfully advise them how to kill themselves. 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:07.320 You've got this that forty five will take care of 0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:08.760 this problem really quickly. 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:15.359 Fantastic insight, Yes, and they but they what they do 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:17.680