1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 2: I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson. 3 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 2: We wanted to do something that highlighted our relationship and 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 2: what it's like to be siblings. We are a sibling. 5 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 3: Railvalry, No, no, sibling, don't do that with your mouth, revelry. 6 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 3: That's good your us like. 7 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 4: The heat that's off Keith Anyway, I think that's Peter 8 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 4: Gabriel starting off the podcast with that song. Because we 9 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 4: have doctor Warren Ferrell here, who is a relationship expert, 10 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 4: love expert. 11 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 2: He's been in the. 12 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 4: Game for a long, long, long long time. This man 13 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 4: is to be trusted with everything connection. So he's in 14 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 4: the waiting. 15 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: Room right now. But maybe we'll let him wait just 16 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: a little bit. Keep doctor Warren on edge, you know 17 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 2: what I'm saying. 18 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 4: But he has a new book out called Rolemate to 19 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 4: Soulmate that's out July thirtieth, and he's going to give 20 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 4: us some information me about maintaining sibling relationships, love relationships, 21 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 4: maybe even relationships with yourself, maybe. 22 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 2: Even relationships with your pet. I don't know, but let's 23 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:40,119 Speaker 2: bring in doctor Warren. 24 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 4: I know he's been waiting him a little bit late 25 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,199 Speaker 4: because I have an earache, but we'll get into that later, 26 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 4: Doctor Warren, Well, thank you man for coming on. 27 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. 28 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: I am looking very forward to being with you. I 29 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: heard your podcast once and I love the way I 30 00:01:58,240 --> 00:01:58,919 Speaker 1: love your style. 31 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 2: Oh well, that's good. 32 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 4: Maybe one of few. 33 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: I don't know, we'll stay. 34 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 4: We'll see how you feel at the end of this, right, No, 35 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 4: but this is obviously a very interesting topic to me. 36 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 4: I've been in a twenty three years twenty three year relationship, 37 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 4: married for eighteen not without its crazy bumps. 38 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 2: You know, there's been. 39 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 4: Infidelity, but we've always worked through it, gotten through it, 40 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 4: tried to communicate as much as we can, and basically 41 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 4: understood that there was something bigger at play, meaning the 42 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 4: depth of our love and our connection sort of was 43 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 4: worth it, and at least we were willing to go 44 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 4: through the fire to see if we can come out 45 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 4: the other side nice where it feels like today people 46 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 4: are so quick to throw everything away when there is 47 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 4: some sort of an issue within the relationship rather than 48 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 4: trying to figure out the bigger picture and having more 49 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 4: of a thirty thousand foot view. 50 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, you know, And there's such a big difference 51 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: because historically speaking, you married for security, and you and 52 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: you brought up many, many children, and breaking up meant that, 53 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: you know, everything would be destroyed. And you had also 54 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: social pressure against you, and your parents thought you were 55 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: a failure. You thought you were a failure, your church 56 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: thought you were a failure. And so there are huge 57 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: numbers of forces saying, you know, stick it out, and 58 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: they served a purpose. But today many people can support 59 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: themselves and there's a much different attitude, and the church 60 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: doesn't interfere as much and isn't as powerful, and so 61 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: people feel, well, all right, you know, I have a 62 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: life to lead, and you know my husband or wife 63 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: was unfaithful and there's absolutely no excuse for that, and 64 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: you know, and I'm out. 65 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 2: Of here, which is better neither per. 66 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: Se well, because you know, we don't want to be 67 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: going back to survival mode again. And at the same time, 68 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: but what's happened is that no one knows how to 69 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: handle personal criticism without becoming defensive. So somebody does something 70 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: quote wrong, like has an affair, and then and you 71 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: just you know, you're furious at somebody, and you don't 72 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: know how to set yourself up to hear other people's 73 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: your partner's perspective. Many times people go to therapists and 74 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:36,840 Speaker 1: oftentimes during the week they are thinking to themselves, what 75 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 1: can I say to help the therapist understand my perspective. 76 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: So what they're doing is exactly the opposite of what 77 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: they need to be doing during the week, which is 78 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: which is reinforcing their internal argument to get the therapist 79 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: on their side. But the real So I saw this 80 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 1: happening with my couples, and I would say things the 81 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: workshops I had these rolled by, these workshops that I 82 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 1: called Rollmate to Soulmate workshops that I started doing thirty 83 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 1: years ago, and I would you advise people to not 84 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: become defensive when they know when they when they're confronted 85 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: with personal criticism. I gave them all the rational reasons 86 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: for it. And then I but I started scheduling follow 87 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: up free group phone calls to say to ask what 88 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 1: worked and what didn't work. And you know, basically what 89 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: happened was that my wisdom, so to speak, disappeared the 90 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 1: second and criticism appeared. So I started saying it so 91 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: much good that workshop was. And so I and I 92 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: started looking at why that was the case and realized 93 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: that historically and biologically, when you heard a criticism, you 94 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: heard a potential enemy, and it was functional to get 95 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: up your defenses and even to kill the enemy before 96 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: the enemy killed you. And so that was functional for survival, 97 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: but it was just totally dysfunctional for love. So I 98 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: asked myself, is there was things like active listening? But 99 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: active listening was only helping the person who was complaining 100 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: to be heard, but it left the person listening with 101 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: their defenses still, and then they had to repeat what 102 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: their partner said, so they had no defenses and then 103 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: they had to repeat it, so it felt like double jeopardy. 104 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: And the findings was that active listening was almost never 105 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: done without a therapist. So that was my challenge, and 106 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: I asked myself, is there a way to be able 107 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:40,160 Speaker 1: to handle criticism without becoming defensive? And so I would 108 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: started having I started creating a series of meditations that 109 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: couples would do before they heard their partner's criticism, So 110 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: before you So the first thing that I would ask 111 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 1: in the workshops is for everyone to sit back to 112 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: back and to write down whether if their partner was 113 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: about to be killed, and they knew with one hundred 114 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: percent certainty that they could save their life, but on 115 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: the other hand, they would have to potentially give up 116 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: their life at a fifty percent level. Would you do 117 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: it if there were no children involved? Even though about 118 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: a third of the people in my workshops were you know, 119 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: this was like their last straw in the relationship. Even 120 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: though about a third were in that category, ninety percent 121 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: of the men said yes. Well, I gave them choices 122 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: of yes, no, uncertain Would you risk your life at 123 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: a fifty percent level to save your partner's life if 124 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: you knew one hundred percent chance of doing it? And 125 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: so ninety percent of the men and eighty percent of 126 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: the women said they would do that if there were 127 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: no children involved. And so the first mindset that I 128 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: have people do is to to say, well, if I'm 129 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: willing to die for my partner, the least I can 130 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: do is listen to my partner. 131 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,239 Speaker 4: It's great, It's really great that you're putting it into 132 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 4: a larger perspective here. You know, I love how you 133 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 4: break it down too, because you know, there's so many 134 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 4: books ideas about relationships and how to make them better 135 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 4: and communication. You hear all the buzzwords, but what you're 136 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 4: doing is breaking some of these things down to their 137 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 4: primal level, which I think is really interesting because right 138 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 4: before you went into it, I was going to ask 139 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 4: the question which you answered, which is why biologically we 140 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 4: do we get defensive when we're criticized, But you answered 141 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 4: it from a survival perspective, And I think when you 142 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 4: get deeper into some of these reasons, why rather than 143 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 4: just being sort of on the surface and trying to 144 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 4: understand them from a primal place, it's really really puts 145 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 4: them into, you know, a great perspective and allows you 146 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 4: to sort of understand yourself a little bit better. 147 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: You know, it does increase your compassion for your propacity. However, 148 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: it doesn't really you any good just learning that intellectually, 149 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: when criticism appears, your wisdom disappears. And so I have 150 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: what I have. What the book is about, and the 151 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: workshop is about, is getting people to practice all these mindsets. 152 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: So I have them set aside just one time during 153 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: the week that I call a carrying and sharing session. 154 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 1: And during this carring and sharing session, they, before they 155 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: hear their partners only one criticism that they're allowed to 156 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 1: share during the week, they meditate into this altered state. 157 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 1: And it's that and I have six meditations that the 158 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: workshops have been doing for thirty years, but they've been 159 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:47,959 Speaker 1: I've been constantly changing them to find out which meditations 160 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: work the best and by the end and they have 161 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: to read each meditation out loud and say it in 162 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: their own words so that their partner knows that they 163 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 1: are preparing themselves to feel safe. So like one of 164 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: the other meditations, is what I call the love guarantee. 165 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: So the love guarantee is if if I provide a 166 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: safe environment for you to be able to say anything 167 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: you want, and whether it's exaggerated, whether I consider it 168 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: a lie, whether it's in a bad tone of voice 169 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: that I would normally respond to. If I provide a 170 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: safe environment for you to say anything you want, you 171 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: will feel safer with me, therefore more secure with me, 172 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: therefore more loved by me, and therefore you will love 173 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: me more. 174 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 4: And let me ask a question with that, because you know, 175 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 4: I've always had issues with being vulnerable, not that I 176 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 4: don't say what I feel, which I do with certain 177 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 4: people with my children. Vulnerability is very easy with women. Strangely, 178 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 4: it's been tough with my mom, my sister, and my wife, 179 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 4: which you know, I've worked on it and gotten better. 180 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 4: I wanted this. It's called the Hoffmann Institute, which really 181 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 4: helped me out a lot. So moving back into that exercise, 182 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 4: that meditation, do you find that it's easier for women 183 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 4: to open up and to sort of allow themselves to 184 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 4: surrender to that experience because men sometimes feel like this 185 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 4: is weird or I can't do this, like this isn't 186 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 4: you know what I mean? Is it harder to break 187 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 4: men down? 188 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: It is, yes and no. So like in one of 189 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: my last workshops, there were three men who were older men, 190 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: and they just were not able to do this exercise 191 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: for a while. And so as I went up and 192 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: talked to them, all three had something in common, which 193 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: is that every time they mentioned any criticism whatsoever, that 194 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: they didn't even call a criticism. They called it a concern, 195 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: but their wife experienced it as a criticism. There was 196 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: no sex, there was emotional withdrawal, there was all sorts 197 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 1: of punishments that each of these men experience. And so 198 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: the part of the way we're biologically trained is that 199 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: we as men are expected to protect women, and when 200 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: women feel criticized by us, they have a number of 201 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: tools that they without being purposely this way, they will 202 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: tend to withdraw, and the men just say to themselves 203 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: after a while, it's not worth bringing it up. I'll 204 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 1: just keep it to myself. And so the propensity of 205 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: men already to not express any feelings is reinforced by 206 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: the punishment they experience when they do express feelings. 207 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 4: Is that a biological thing? Is that a primal thing 208 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 4: where men are less expressive. 209 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: We learned as guys that if we start talking about 210 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 1: our weaknesses and our vulnerabilities, two things will happen. If 211 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:52,319 Speaker 1: we talk about them to women. The women will lose 212 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: respect for us. And so if there's weakness, there's no 213 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,440 Speaker 1: love unless the man has very, very thoroughly proven to 214 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: him up to the woman that he's a you know, 215 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: sort of superman. Lois Lane had no interest in Clark Kent, 216 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: but the moment she found out that Clark Kent was Superman, 217 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: she had an interesting and then she congratulated herself to 218 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: teach for teaching Clark Kent how to cry. But she 219 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,239 Speaker 1: was only interested in the Clark Kent that became the Superman. 220 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,320 Speaker 4: Even thought about that that movie is that's bullshit, that's 221 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 4: fucked up. 222 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 2: She hated the nerd, one of the superman. 223 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: I mean, it's the same guy with different powers. 224 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's so interesting because nowadays, in twenty twenty four, 225 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 4: there's this narrative that you know, amongst men especially. You know, 226 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,079 Speaker 4: maybe I'm speaking generally, but I think I think there 227 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 4: is it that vulnerability is now power. You know, vulnerability 228 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 4: is almost masculine now, or it's sexy, it's attractive. So 229 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 4: in your thirty plus years of doing this, you've really 230 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 4: gotten a close look on the evolution of female and 231 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 4: male I guess have you seen it shift and move 232 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 4: throughout the years and change from one place to when 233 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 4: you started to where you are now. 234 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: Well, there's certainly more permission for men to be vulnerable. However, 235 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:35,479 Speaker 1: that doesn't often translate into a woman being more interested. 236 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 2: It doesn't. 237 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: It does not often because women are fighting their propensity 238 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: to be attracted to men who are strong and so However, 239 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: in a way, in the workshop, none of this makes 240 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: any difference teaching everyone. Gay couples and straight couples all 241 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: have the same problem. They all feel that when they're criticized, 242 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: they become defensive because if you love somebody, you're vulnerable, 243 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: and the last person in the world that you want 244 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: to criticize you is the person you love the most. 245 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: And so in a sense, the more fearful you are, 246 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: the more it suggests the degree of love you have. 247 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: Somebody on the plane criticizes me, no big deal, you know. 248 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: But if my wife criticizes me, who I love deeply, 249 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: that really stings. And so I do have to prepare 250 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: myself before with these mindsets. So two things happen. One 251 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: is I can fully heart everything she is saying, and 252 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: then I ask her, of course, if I've distorted anything, 253 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: I tell her what I've heard her say. I asked 254 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: if I've distorted anything, and then she clarifies, and if 255 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: she feels I've distorted something, I keep working on it 256 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: until she says that's exactly what I meant. And then 257 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: I asked her did I miss anything? And she goes, yes, 258 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: she missed this, And even if I felt I covered that, 259 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: I keep working at it until she feels that that's 260 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: that's not missed any longer. And then I ask her. 261 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: Now that she knows she's in a safe environment, I 262 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: ask her, is there anything new that you'd like to add? 263 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: Because oftentimes something new feels safe to her where the 264 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: person you're communicating with only after she knows she's safe 265 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: expressing the other things. And then when she thinks about 266 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: what I'd like to add, she often discovers things that 267 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: are that she didn't even know she was thinking because 268 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 1: she hadn't gone that far in her thinking, because she 269 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: didn't feel it was worthwhile going that far because she 270 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: didn't feel like we hear it to begin with. And so, 271 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: and this, as I said, makes no difference whether it's 272 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: straight or gay couples. Everybody when they when they love 273 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: somebody feels vulnerable and that and they have to prepare 274 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: themselves before they before they hear what their partner has 275 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: to say. 276 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, because also, but I mean when you're in your workshops, like, 277 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 4: aren't there layers? Because every individual has their own psychology 278 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 4: that they have to get through in order to maybe 279 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 4: get to the place that you want them to get to, 280 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 4: you know, abandonment issues or you know they've been whatever 281 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 4: it is where it's hard to express myself because of 282 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 4: my own childhood and my own psychology. So everyone probably 283 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 4: is at different levels and their ability to go there. Absolutely, 284 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 4: how do you deal with that because it's such an 285 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 4: individual on an individual basis, you know. 286 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,479 Speaker 1: You are, you keep being there for whatever level they 287 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: wish to go to. So what I'm hearing when the 288 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: person who's listening is hearing their partners speak, it may 289 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:55,439 Speaker 1: be very irrational that they care so much about money 290 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: when they have plenty, or they care so much about 291 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: the fact that you stayed away an hour later, and 292 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: that taps into their abandonment issues because the last time 293 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: their husband or their wife stayed away later, it was 294 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 1: actually a sign of their setting up for an affair, 295 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: and so all that is triggered. And so what you're 296 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: doing as you're listening to your partner is you're not 297 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:22,479 Speaker 1: worrying as the listener about whether this is rational or not. 298 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: You're sitting there for your partner's feelings, no matter where 299 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: they go, no matter what the distortion level is, no 300 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: matter what the anger level is. Now interestingly, the anger 301 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: level is usually much much less than it normally would 302 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: be because the partner is knowing that they're going to 303 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: be heard. And as soon as you start being knowing that, 304 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: your anger dissipates. Because anger is basically vulnerability's mask. Anger 305 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: is a shouting out saying I am angry about this. 306 00:18:58,040 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: But if you ask a different question and say, what 307 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 1: the vulnerability. And part of what I trained couple the 308 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 1: couples to do is is to be able to see 309 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: that that behind that anger is vulnerability. Almost invariably yes. 310 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: And so when you're hearing your partner exaggerate something that 311 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: comes from an abandonment issue or whatever historical issue with 312 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: your father, that then you, the person talking, the person 313 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: who's working on maybe a distorted version of reality, knows 314 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: that she or he's going to be safe airing that 315 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: and that you're not going to be criticizing him or 316 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: her in your mind's eye. That's so powerful. And so 317 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: the normal thing that we do when we're being criticized 318 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 1: is we don't listen. We self listen. We listen to 319 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: our arguments that we have in response to that like 320 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: a lawyer would, and we and the partner who's sharing 321 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: their concern feels the energy shift. So I don't let 322 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: people take notes when they're listening to their partner, because 323 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: I want them completely focused on and empathetic with their 324 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 1: partner's perspective. And when their partner at the end is 325 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: sharing what their perspective is without distortion or missing anything, 326 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: and permission to add things. It's like almost everyone says, 327 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: I've mentioned this issue a dozen times before, maybe one 328 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: hundred times. I've just never felt really heard and never 329 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: felt safe airing these things. So and that feeling is 330 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 1: one of such enormous being seen by the person you 331 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 1: love and knowing that instead of walking on eggshells before 332 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: you bring something up, the only thing you have to 333 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 1: do is have this caring and sharing time on your calendar, 334 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: and you know that each week you'll have to share 335 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: a chance to share the one thing that bothers you 336 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,199 Speaker 1: the most, and your partner knows that there's not going 337 00:20:58,280 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: to be a whole bunch of things thrown at him 338 00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: or right, just one thing that they're going to share. 339 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: And then I set up in the in the book, 340 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: I teach people how to set up the conflict free 341 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: zone for the other one hundred and sixty six hours 342 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: a week and teach them what to do to be 343 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: able to if criticism comes up during the week, how 344 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: to handle it, what to do with it, that type 345 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: of thing. 346 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I think what you said is resonated 347 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,479 Speaker 4: with me because it's you know, I mean, I've been 348 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 4: in therapy, cotton bibrial therapy, forever, I know. So I 349 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 4: feel like I've been in so much therapy. I am 350 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 4: a therapist without actually having a degree. But what I 351 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 4: love is which makes most sense to me, which is 352 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 4: sort of what we try to practice with in my 353 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 4: relationship and friendships and everything else, which I want to 354 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 4: get into as well, which is it doesn't have to 355 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 4: be rational to you because it's. 356 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:50,959 Speaker 2: How they feel. 357 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 4: Yes, so you can't project your ideas on that feeling. 358 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 4: It's not fair, you know. So if you can come 359 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 4: at it from that place, then it's not hurting you 360 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 4: or seems to be. It doesn't seem to be a criticism. 361 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 4: It's like, Okay, well this is the way that they 362 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 4: feel right now, and I need to respect that, even 363 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 4: though in my mind it's irrational, and maybe even in 364 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 4: their mind it is. But in that moment, it's a 365 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 4: real feeling. It's not a fake feeling. It's real. So 366 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 4: that needs to be taken into account. That is like 367 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 4: extremely important because if you can get to that place, 368 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 4: then defensiveness kind of melts away a little bit, yes, 369 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,959 Speaker 4: you know, and it's less self it's less selfish, and 370 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 4: you're you're looking at someone you know and understanding that 371 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 4: it's their issue and it's not yours, essentially, kind of 372 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 4: what I went through with Hoffmann and dealing with, you know, 373 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 4: childhood patterns and how they've sort of been passed down 374 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 4: through generations essentially, and how to break some of these patterns, 375 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 4: you know, especially with my dad who wasn't there and 376 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 4: now we have a you know, a blossoming relationship right now, 377 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 4: which is nice a million years later, But when you 378 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 4: look back at him, how can I be upset when 379 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 4: his childhood was fucked up? When his dad, my grandfather 380 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 4: left him. He didn't have the tools, you know, So 381 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,719 Speaker 4: when you can find the compassion in that and not 382 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 4: make it personal, there's such a weight that gets lifted off, 383 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 4: you know. 384 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: It certainly is. And it's also important that when you're 385 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 1: communicating with your dad or your wife or husband, that 386 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: you're that you know that you will also have time 387 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 1: to present your perspective and that their job will be 388 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: to completely get into the mindsets of if I would 389 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: die for you, you know, I will at least I 390 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: can do his listeners. I here's you know, the love 391 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 1: guarantee and the four other mindsets that I ask that 392 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: you know each person and to go through before they listen, 393 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 1: So you will have a chance. You have to know 394 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 1: that you will have a chance to present your perspective, 395 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: which may be differently irrational. 396 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 4: Right right, you're both crazy both. That's really the name 397 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 4: of your next book. We're both crazy crazy. 398 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 2: So what about what about sex? 399 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,199 Speaker 4: You know, because it's it's extremely important to me in 400 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 4: my relationship and staying with my wife. You know, obviously 401 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 4: it varies, but I feel that is sort of the consummation, 402 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 4: you know. I mean that's how I express love and 403 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 4: feel a love is touch and you know, coming together 404 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 4: that way. It's different for other people. But how important 405 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 4: is sex in a relationship in a marriage. 406 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: Well, it's important for two reasons. One, it just feels 407 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: great and it came out and it's meant to connect you. 408 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: And number two, it's also important as a statement of 409 00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: what's really going on that's preventing sex from being really powerful. 410 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 1: So one of the things I asked people to do 411 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: before they go to the Role Made to Soulmate workshop 412 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: is to it is to reserve an extra day after 413 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 1: the workshop because like they let's say they go down 414 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: to Esslon and Big sur and they and to it's 415 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 1: from Friday to Monday, but I say try to mark 416 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: off Tuesday, because basically the workshop is for play. When 417 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: you get the issues. 418 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 4: Yes, but you get the issues so true real interrupt 419 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 4: But like when my wife and I were going through 420 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 4: couples therapy, it's like you come out of it when 421 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 4: it's a good session and you just want to like 422 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 4: get down in the car. You're like, oh my god, everyone, 423 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 4: we were so open and clear, and it's it's it's sexy, 424 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 4: you know what. 425 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 2: I mean, it's interesting. 426 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 1: Being heard and being seen is sexy. And many couples 427 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: where the sex life has sort of evaporated don't realize 428 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 1: that that's that it's not just the sex life having evaporated. 429 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,159 Speaker 1: And maybe and maybe there are things like you know, 430 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,640 Speaker 1: menopause or other things that are that are inhibiting it, 431 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: but there's often usually something else that that that is 432 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 1: being pent up inside and you can you can see 433 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,640 Speaker 1: that and feel that when suddenly somebody feels completely hurt 434 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: about something that they were walking on eggshells, that reveal 435 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: to you. And then at the end of that you 436 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,479 Speaker 1: just sort of open up and you really release in 437 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 1: a way that you know, and that's one of the 438 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,399 Speaker 1: you know, I've been I've been accused of doing a 439 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: workshop and that it's really for play. Because now, one 440 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: thing that's very important is especially before you share your feelings, 441 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: I call that session a caring and sharing session. But 442 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: before that caring and sharing session comes up and you 443 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: share what's bothering you, you share the two things about 444 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: your partner that you most appreciate, or tooth that you 445 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,679 Speaker 1: appreciate that happened recently, and then at the end of 446 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: the whole process, you share two other things that you appreciate. 447 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: So it's like a car what I call a caring 448 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,360 Speaker 1: and sharing a sandwich. It starts with appreciations, it ends 449 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: with appreciations, and has one concern the sandwiched in between. 450 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: And so that really a lot. And so then the 451 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 1: question is, many people say they do what I would 452 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: call level one of appreciations. So let's say you say 453 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,359 Speaker 1: to your wife, you know, you're really a good cook, 454 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,199 Speaker 1: and she says, thank you, But she's heard that one 455 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty times before. Let's say, and so step two, 456 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: level two of appreciations would be saying that, you know, 457 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: how did you get the turkey's skin so crisp. Now 458 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: she's beginning to feel that you're really paying attention to 459 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: what's making her a good cook. And then you say, 460 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: let's say, how did you get the dressing so moist 461 00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: because you know what I did the cooking once it 462 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,840 Speaker 1: got you know, dried up. Now she's seeing even a 463 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: deeper level of your observing what she's done. Well, then 464 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: you say, like, you know, what were the spices in that, 465 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: like parsley sage, rosemary time or some other simon and 466 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: garfocal spice. And she's now beginning to see that you 467 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: said of where you know, you're really attentive to not 468 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:23,439 Speaker 1: just the general cooking, but these spices, the moist and 469 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: so on specifics. So this is a very fascinating, you know, 470 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: part of the book, in the workshop is teaching people 471 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: how to be not just share appreciations frequently and consistently, 472 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: but also and setting aside at night where you do 473 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: appreciate each other each week in addition to your spontaneous ones, 474 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: but also taking the appreciations to at least five levels 475 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: of specificity. And so I have during the workshop and 476 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: in the book, you know, I have people again and 477 00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 1: again discipline themselves to share appreciations with their part here 478 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: and that fills the reservoir of love. 479 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 4: That is at a great comment. You know, I think 480 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 4: that's so true, the specificity of sort of emotions and 481 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 4: speaking to your partner. It can get so just monotone, 482 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 4: like thanks baby, that was good, you know what I mean. 483 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 4: I mean, it's so easy to become passing ships that 484 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,239 Speaker 4: way instead of really focusing on paying attention. And by 485 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 4: the way, you know, I've learned that sometimes you got 486 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 4: to fake it till you make it, even if you 487 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 4: know that it's not necessarily in your nature, you know, 488 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 4: maybe because we're all different. 489 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 2: But it's like, Okay, she likes this. 490 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 4: I know that this is going to make her feel good, 491 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 4: so I'm going to say it even though it's not 492 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 4: doesn't come naturally yet, so it's like, fuck it. Hey, babe, 493 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 4: the skin was super crispy, you know. 494 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: I was like, oh wow, wow, you know, yeah, and 495 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: you're being seen. So that's funny that you say fake 496 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: it to you make it. I sort of have always 497 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: honored myself by being so genuine. But when I started 498 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 1: thinking about what is the what is how do you 499 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: maintain this conflict free zone the other one hundred and 500 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: sixty six hours of the week so that you can 501 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: keep the one time that you know, the one criticism 502 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: you have, the most important one for the carring and 503 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: sharing time. And so one of those I take people 504 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: through six ways to maintain the conflict free zone. One 505 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: of those six ways is called fake it till you 506 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: make it. That's really amazing, you said, and the point 507 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: there being very much like you were just saying that. 508 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: Let's say you buy you're feeling really upset, but you 509 00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: go out and buy some flowers for your wife. What 510 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: does your wife's name Aaron? 511 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,959 Speaker 2: E r i n Yeah, e r i n n 512 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 2: actually yah yah. 513 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 1: Irish yes, daughter named darn. And so so you go 514 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: out and you buy, you buy Aaron some flowers, and 515 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: and while you're buying those flowers, you're saying, Okay, now 516 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 1: what does she really like? I know she likes let's say, pogonias, 517 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 1: and she likes maybe a cup pagonias, and you know, 518 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: so you pick up some of those things, the apercup, 519 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: pagonias or whatever you know she likes. And while you 520 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:24,959 Speaker 1: are think searching out the right flower, and and you 521 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: are thinking to yourself, you're anticipating that she will smile, 522 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: that she will feel a little softer in her energy. 523 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: When she sees that you've taken the first initiative, she'll 524 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,680 Speaker 1: see that that's a way of an effort to make peace, 525 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: and so you're faking it. You don't feel like you're 526 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,360 Speaker 1: really close to her at this point, but as you're 527 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: buying flowers, your own internal piece and anticipation of her 528 00:31:53,080 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: appreciation really begins to help you reduce yours, and so 529 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: you don't walk into the house with a vibration of 530 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: you know, you're the enemy and I'm you know, and 531 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: you've just done something wrong. And there's dozens of things 532 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: like that. It can be something as simple as, you know, 533 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: walking over and just rubbing her shoulder or her back 534 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: or whatever. Or playing some fast music and sort of 535 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: you know, winking at her and saying one dance and 536 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: the fast music changes the energy, and so or just 537 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: cooking a dessert that she likes, or you know, going 538 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: out of your way in some way. It's faking it 539 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: at the beginning because you don't really feel like doing that, 540 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: but it changes your You anticipate a different response and 541 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: a different energy, and the whole thing becomes softer. So 542 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 1: the faking it has a very positive purpose. 543 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 2: And therapy. 544 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 4: For me, it was sort of this theme of you know, 545 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 4: to love without expecting love back because we can't control 546 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 4: how the other person feels or reacts. It's not in 547 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 4: our control. All we can control is our expression and 548 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 4: when you can get that. When I was able to 549 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 4: get that through my head, it was again another weight 550 00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 4: was lifted, where it's like, oh, I can show love 551 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 4: and it's okay if I don't get back what I'm expecting. 552 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 2: Yes, because essentially you are giving to get. 553 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 4: At least before I was understood that you don't need 554 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 4: to get because you can't control. But when you are 555 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 4: free to give, you get something from it no matter 556 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 4: what their response is. 557 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: You know, and I would do a slight modification of that. 558 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: We all want to be loved, and so starting with 559 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: exactly what you're saying, just give and be there and create, 560 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: just like with the figurety, you make it stuff that's great. 561 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: But in the final analysis, don't be ashamed to also 562 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: want to be loved by your loved one and by 563 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,279 Speaker 1: your father, and just as your children will want to 564 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,760 Speaker 1: be want to be loved by you, And so that's 565 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: there's no shame in that desire to be loved, even 566 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: though you don't. You don't do it with the anticipation 567 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: of this, you know this for that type of thing. 568 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,240 Speaker 2: So I think I think that. 569 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:32,399 Speaker 4: Does this translate to friendships and all kinds of other 570 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 4: you know relationships or you specifically geared towards you know, 571 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 4: sort of romantic relationships. 572 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:44,719 Speaker 1: No, actually the once you. 573 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,759 Speaker 4: Or siblings even hell, I guess we're doing a sibling show. 574 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 4: So even that sibling you know dynamic, which by the way, 575 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,879 Speaker 4: is so interesting in the four years we've been doing 576 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 4: all this, the sibling dynamic is so complex, it's really crazy. 577 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:04,479 Speaker 4: So you know, there's probably a great workshop for siblings too. 578 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: And it really is all the same meaning that I 579 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: define a couple as any two people who have a 580 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: history where they love each other but that have gotten 581 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: into complexities, that would like to have a future where 582 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 1: they love each other more deeply. And so in the workshop, 583 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,360 Speaker 1: I'll have siblings. I'll have I have father and daughter, 584 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: father and son, mother and son, mother and daughter. But 585 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,760 Speaker 1: I only allow two people because it gets too complex 586 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:36,879 Speaker 1: to do it with multiple people. The and so everybody 587 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: and almost every sibling has challenge and their relationships. Daddy 588 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,360 Speaker 1: loved you more than he loved me, you know, so 589 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: you got all this attention and you know, and you 590 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,279 Speaker 1: get it all the time. And when I when I 591 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,360 Speaker 1: walk up with you to meet somebody, they pay you know, 592 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: they really don't just care about you know, paying attention 593 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: to you. I'm just let a little side show there, 594 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 1: you know. And if somebody becomes like your sister, you know, 595 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: well known. There's a lot of effort in becoming well known, 596 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: and you're so focused off and on that effort that 597 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: it's very challenging to to remember that other people have 598 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: certain responses to that, experiences with that feel you know, 599 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: left out, deserted, not important, admired more by and so on, 600 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 1: and so all of that needs to be heard. But 601 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: in the process often times of getting well known, you're 602 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: so focused on yourself you don't take the time out 603 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 1: to hear these things. And yet in the final analysis, 604 00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 1: as you get particularly as you get older, you realize that, 605 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: you know, the people in your family are a lot 606 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: more important to you than the fame and so, but 607 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: that doesn't really happen until you you know, for. 608 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 4: You do you have siblings that go through all all 609 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 4: kinds of different dynamics. You know that you've seen, whether 610 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 4: it be what you're talking about, how you know you've 611 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 4: achieved more and I feel less then, or you know 612 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 4: you don't care about me, or you don't pay attention 613 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 4: to the things that I sort of love. I mean, 614 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 4: I guess it just runs the gambit right as far 615 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 4: as siblings go, or is there is there something specific 616 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 4: a pattern that you see with siblings? 617 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 2: You know specifically first of. 618 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:14,280 Speaker 1: All, all the things you mentioned, and with my sister, 619 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,839 Speaker 1: she would come into She's two years younger than I am, 620 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,960 Speaker 1: and she would come into a class and the teacher 621 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,800 Speaker 1: would say, oh, you're Warre and Feral's sister, fantastic it 622 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: alah blah blah, and so you know, and I would 623 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: think that that would make her feel really good. But 624 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 1: her perspective, what she felt was like she was the 625 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 1: black and white TV and I was the color TV, 626 00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: and that it was always, you know, it was always 627 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: warn and that that really so I needed needed to 628 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: and wanted to hear how that must have help From 629 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: her perspective, my brother had the exact same experience and 630 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: and so it was really and so one of my 631 00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 1: internal things in life is to use whatever whatever I 632 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,879 Speaker 1: have to make other people feel good about themselves and 633 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,000 Speaker 1: and so, and that evolved from my seeing that that 634 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,840 Speaker 1: my sister and brother had a very similar reaction to 635 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: my doing well early in life, and so I didn't. 636 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:20,439 Speaker 1: Instead of it helping them, it didn't. It made them 637 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:21,760 Speaker 1: feel less than. 638 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 4: How much though, is that their own shit? You know, 639 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:28,960 Speaker 4: it's because you weren't doing anything. You're living your life. 640 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,360 Speaker 4: I'm sure you're a great brother and attentive and weren't 641 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,839 Speaker 4: throwing it in their face and saying, hey, look at me, right, 642 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:35,959 Speaker 4: I mean, you seem like a pretty humble human being. 643 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 4: So it's it's them dealing with their own stuff as well. 644 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,480 Speaker 1: Now. But they need from me is just to be heard, right. 645 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: They don't need an argument, they don't need, but it 646 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,719 Speaker 1: also is important that they are able to also hear 647 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:58,160 Speaker 1: my perspective. However, you know, my brother is you know, 648 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 1: he's unfortunately was killed in a ski accident and and 649 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: and so he's we never got to the place where 650 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: I was, you know, able to really deal with this 651 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,800 Speaker 1: at this level. But if but with my sister, who's 652 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,279 Speaker 1: still alive and two years younger than I am, you know, 653 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 1: we've we've been able to talk this through and it's 654 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,319 Speaker 1: The first and most important thing is that is to 655 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 1: for me to take I know this skill set, and 656 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 1: is for me to just hear her and to let 657 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,840 Speaker 1: her know what I hear and you know that I 658 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 1: have it right from her perspective and what it must 659 00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 1: have been like from her perspective. And she is not 660 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: as trained in this area, and so she doesn't hear 661 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: me as well, but that's fine. The relationship has gotten 662 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 1: a lot deeper and more satisfying. And when I see 663 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 1: her be heard, I feel a different energy that I 664 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 1: am happy with. 665 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 4: Mm hmm. 666 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,240 Speaker 2: Rewinding a little bit a lot. 667 00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 4: So you know you've got your degree or the man, 668 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 4: you've done all your studies, how did you get into 669 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:09,239 Speaker 4: this field? Because you probably had choices, right, But was 670 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 4: there a specific instance that we're like, well, this is 671 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 4: what I want to do. 672 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, it happened when I was on the board of 673 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,439 Speaker 1: directors of the National Organization for Women in New York City, 674 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 1: and so it was speaking all around the world on 675 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 1: in feminist issues and then and I would go back 676 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,839 Speaker 1: to a place where it's spoken before, and I'd ask. 677 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:32,279 Speaker 1: I've always been very sort of I always have tried 678 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,760 Speaker 1: to create space for people to tell me the real truth. 679 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 1: So I would say, you know, they say, oh, you know, 680 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 1: doctor Farrell, your presentation was so good. I love the 681 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,439 Speaker 1: standing ovation you got blah blah blah. And I say, well, 682 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:48,360 Speaker 1: what has changed for you as a result of that presentation? 683 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: They could really even come up with a specific about 684 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:53,919 Speaker 1: what I'd said. And this is just two years later. 685 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:58,319 Speaker 1: And so I said, all right, there's something that I 686 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: haven't really helped men and women in my audience walk 687 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 1: a mile on each other's shoes. How can I do that? 688 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: So I started to create role reversal dates and men's 689 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 1: beauty contests, and so I would I would have I 690 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,319 Speaker 1: would say to every man in the audience, listen, how 691 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: many of you came here to learn more about women? 692 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: Almost every hand goes up. Okay, So I'm going to 693 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,360 Speaker 1: ask you to come up on stage and walk in 694 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,239 Speaker 1: the beauty contest of every day that women are in 695 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 1: every day of their life. And I'll do a men's 696 00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,920 Speaker 1: beauty contest, and so, you know, I'd have men come 697 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: up on stage in the aisles and they would do 698 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 1: this men's beauty contest, and women would would create a gamut, uh, 699 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,759 Speaker 1: you know, a place where they would walk through and 700 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,160 Speaker 1: they would try to reach out and maybe touch them 701 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 1: and stuff like that, and the men would And so 702 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 1: the men would compete for about forty five minutes to 703 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:54,480 Speaker 1: become the the you know, the beauty queen, the beauty 704 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: king in the contest. And at the end, you know, 705 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 1: I'd process what the men fold and they would say, 706 00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:05,000 Speaker 1: it's kind of weird. I was runner up in this contest, 707 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:07,400 Speaker 1: and so I'm sort of in the way, really proud, 708 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 1: but at the same time, I'm so pissed that nobody 709 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: seems to care about any part of me except my body. 710 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,840 Speaker 1: And so here I've spent the last forty five minutes 711 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: working to showcase my body, and yet I feel angry 712 00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:28,200 Speaker 1: that that's the only thing I'm cared about for. And 713 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,800 Speaker 1: so every woman started clapping, you know, instead of really 714 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 1: get thank you, you got it. So then I said, 715 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:37,880 Speaker 1: not so easy, women, it's your turn to take to 716 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,600 Speaker 1: walk a mile in men's malcaus And it's that oftentimes 717 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 1: men take dozens and dozens of risks of rejection before 718 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,279 Speaker 1: the before intercourse happens for the first time. And so 719 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,879 Speaker 1: I'd like you to experience without going just step one 720 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,600 Speaker 1: or step two of just what it feels like for 721 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:58,759 Speaker 1: a man to really be attracted to somebody and to 722 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,000 Speaker 1: experience the possible ability of one rejection after the other 723 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,799 Speaker 1: in the process of asking her out. So I sat 724 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 1: all the women into different rows based on how much 725 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:13,360 Speaker 1: income they anticipated they would be making five years after graduation, 726 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: and with the teachers, they who were already making money, 727 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 1: about how much money they made. And so then I 728 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,799 Speaker 1: got the men on stage and I said, you look 729 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:27,719 Speaker 1: out in the audience and imagine yourself being the primary 730 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:31,440 Speaker 1: homemaker and caretaker of the children, and it really making 731 00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,480 Speaker 1: a difference of how much income your partner makes, so 732 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,760 Speaker 1: you could move into the right neighborhood, the right school, 733 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:41,680 Speaker 1: and so on. And so if you find somebody in 734 00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,480 Speaker 1: the back rows who's likely to be making very little money, 735 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:51,240 Speaker 1: it's your responsibility as a future parent to not focus 736 00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,800 Speaker 1: on that person, but look at the first rows of 737 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,400 Speaker 1: people that are making the most likely to be making 738 00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:00,160 Speaker 1: the most money. That's your responsibility for your children, and 739 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,480 Speaker 1: so on. And so now the women in the back rows, 740 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:08,320 Speaker 1: who are usually the most attractive, are suddenly their attractiveness 741 00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:13,239 Speaker 1: is not being valued nearly as much. And so then 742 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,799 Speaker 1: I had everybody in the audience eventually come up and 743 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:21,279 Speaker 1: ask out their first choice man, which was very hard 744 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,520 Speaker 1: for them to do because they anticipated that their first 745 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:25,359 Speaker 1: choice man was the one that would be most likely 746 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,680 Speaker 1: to reject them and so but sure enough, around the 747 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,520 Speaker 1: top men, they were often seven to ten to fifteen 748 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,960 Speaker 1: women competing for asking that guy out. And so the 749 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:41,120 Speaker 1: women would then go ahead and you know, ask They 750 00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,160 Speaker 1: start saying things like, you know, you know, I want 751 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 1: to take you out to this best Italian restaurant and 752 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:50,320 Speaker 1: it's really going to be great, and I'm going to 753 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,520 Speaker 1: pick you up in my Porsche and you know, and 754 00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,680 Speaker 1: they don't have a Porsche. That barely know what the 755 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 1: best Italian restaurant is. There are students in college and 756 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 1: then they still only they bring it down to only 757 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,879 Speaker 1: two or three people competing with them, and a number 758 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:06,759 Speaker 1: of them would just take the arms of you know, 759 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:08,000 Speaker 1: the guy and just pull. 760 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 2: And they said, I got physical. 761 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,640 Speaker 1: Physical, And they said, you know what if a guy 762 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,560 Speaker 1: did that with me, I would be so said, they 763 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,800 Speaker 1: said this. Every time in my life I've used the 764 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 1: word jerk, it applied to a guy, but today that 765 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:29,560 Speaker 1: applied to me. And so and so I now go 766 00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,880 Speaker 1: back some places where I've spoken thirty years later and 767 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:36,719 Speaker 1: people still remember being in that experience, and so that 768 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,680 Speaker 1: led psychologists to start training with me because they saw 769 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:46,160 Speaker 1: that I was creating experiences where people were actually walking 770 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,640 Speaker 1: a mile on each other's shoes. And that began my 771 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:55,480 Speaker 1: work in creating workshops on male female issues. One of 772 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: the books I've always called Why Men Are the Way 773 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 1: they Are? But one slice of that workshop was on communication, 774 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:08,279 Speaker 1: and that began the thirty years ago what became the 775 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:14,000 Speaker 1: role Made to Soulmate book today. But I was beginning 776 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:20,359 Speaker 1: to plant in my mind a much broader workshop when 777 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,440 Speaker 1: somebody wrote me in the This was down in the 778 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,160 Speaker 1: era of letters letters, where I wrote. They wrote me 779 00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,560 Speaker 1: an actual letter and said, I just want you to 780 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,640 Speaker 1: know I'm now using this couple's communication part of your 781 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,920 Speaker 1: workshop in my family business. I'm thinking, oh, that's really nice, 782 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,120 Speaker 1: and then I look at it. This is from John Robson, 783 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 1: the CEO of Walmart, and I thought, Wow, if he 784 00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,920 Speaker 1: can hire any you know, consultant in the country and 785 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,680 Speaker 1: this little slice is helping him, then maybe I need 786 00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,839 Speaker 1: to develop this rolemate to Soulmate workshop to a much 787 00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:55,880 Speaker 1: greater degree. And that's how I began this. 788 00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,719 Speaker 2: Wow. 789 00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:08,239 Speaker 4: All right, Well, we'll coming to an end, but I 790 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,480 Speaker 4: want to know a few things before we get out 791 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:15,720 Speaker 4: of here. First of all, you know, in your relationships, 792 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,480 Speaker 4: whether it be with your kids, your brothers, your sisters, 793 00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:24,480 Speaker 4: your wife, whatever it is, do you get looked at 794 00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,680 Speaker 4: when you're going through your own shit? As you know 795 00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:29,640 Speaker 4: you're the expert? 796 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:31,000 Speaker 2: How you know what I mean? 797 00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,720 Speaker 4: How do I compete with the expert? Or stop doing 798 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,960 Speaker 4: your shit on me? I mean, do you ever get 799 00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:40,759 Speaker 4: that stuff from family and people you love? 800 00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:46,120 Speaker 1: I get very little of that, however, the exception my 801 00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,160 Speaker 1: own self. Per I'm just now reading the audible version 802 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,920 Speaker 1: of Role Made to Soulmate. Now I'm going through sections 803 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,640 Speaker 1: where I haven't done that as well as I'm talking 804 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:59,680 Speaker 1: about and you know, like and you know, I recommend 805 00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:04,480 Speaker 1: do at least one disciplined appreciation each week at the 806 00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:08,680 Speaker 1: five levels of specificity, and sometimes I do. We completely 807 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,520 Speaker 1: my wife and I completely forget to do the appreciations, 808 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,400 Speaker 1: and I don't you know, I usually I leave a 809 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:17,920 Speaker 1: lot of posts around the house of appreciations with her, 810 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,480 Speaker 1: but not as many as I would like to. And 811 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:22,440 Speaker 1: you know, I have a section in the book on 812 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,920 Speaker 1: you know, how to pan for your Partner's Gold Gold 813 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,360 Speaker 1: and also had a pan for the Golden Life about gratitudes, 814 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,960 Speaker 1: and you know, we the first time we did a 815 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,200 Speaker 1: gratitude evening of just what in the world are we 816 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,600 Speaker 1: grateful for living in, you know, living in the place 817 00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,680 Speaker 1: we're living in in California versus Ukraine, et cetera. And 818 00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,880 Speaker 1: so you or just having you know, being able to 819 00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:47,719 Speaker 1: do this with each other, which we couldn't do when 820 00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,880 Speaker 1: I was growing up, and you know, writing you know, 821 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:54,200 Speaker 1: writing books with you know, with the help of search functions, 822 00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,600 Speaker 1: et cetera. My first three books were written on index cards. 823 00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,400 Speaker 1: And so as I'm reading through the books, through my 824 00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,480 Speaker 1: own book, I'm sort of like, you know, I'm seeing 825 00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:09,320 Speaker 1: how much I have, how ways that I fall short 826 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,399 Speaker 1: of being the man that I could be, the best 827 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:14,160 Speaker 1: man that I could be. 828 00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:18,080 Speaker 4: So what do you think, upon self analysis, if you 829 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:21,480 Speaker 4: were to pinpoint one or two things that you are 830 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,520 Speaker 4: weak in, can you do that? 831 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:24,040 Speaker 2: Do you know? 832 00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:26,400 Speaker 4: Are you like, well, I could be doing this better. 833 00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:28,640 Speaker 4: Just maybe not on a day to day but just 834 00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:30,239 Speaker 4: kind of generally. 835 00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:35,520 Speaker 1: Yes, everything that I do well, I do less well 836 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,200 Speaker 1: than I want to be doing. Like, like the appreciations 837 00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:43,200 Speaker 1: I do that. You know. My wife says I'm the 838 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:47,200 Speaker 1: best appreciator she's ever experienced, But I don't think I am. 839 00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,480 Speaker 1: I mean, maybe that she's experienced, but I'm not. I 840 00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:55,360 Speaker 1: would like to do it better. I would. We have 841 00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:59,920 Speaker 1: a very very close relationship with my children. I don't 842 00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,520 Speaker 1: there's there's sort of like a little bit of a 843 00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,839 Speaker 1: roll of the eyes of you know, you know, of me. 844 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:12,080 Speaker 2: And the kid that's that they're supposed to do exactly. 845 00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:15,560 Speaker 1: And so I don't I am not penetrating that well 846 00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:18,600 Speaker 1: enough for my own satisfaction. 847 00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,880 Speaker 4: And so that your kids meaning sort of adopting some 848 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:24,160 Speaker 4: of the things that you have. 849 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:28,320 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, they don't, you know, they have a different 850 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:32,080 Speaker 1: worldview and sort of like you know, this whole I 851 00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:37,840 Speaker 1: was very instrumental in having my daughter be she was 852 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,480 Speaker 1: about to break up with her the man who became 853 00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,880 Speaker 1: her husband, and I think there was my workshop was 854 00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,919 Speaker 1: very helpful for them to not do that. And he's 855 00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,960 Speaker 1: the greatest guy possible and she's a wonderful young woman. Yeah, 856 00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,360 Speaker 1: and so so I was very happy about that. But 857 00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:59,839 Speaker 1: generally speaking, she doesn't like all this this this type 858 00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:04,160 Speaker 1: of relationship stuff. 859 00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:08,759 Speaker 4: That's not her thing as a parent, separating yourself, you know, 860 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,880 Speaker 4: from sort of what your work is and how many 861 00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:13,360 Speaker 4: lives you have changed. 862 00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,600 Speaker 2: Is it hard to be like, all right, look. 863 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:20,120 Speaker 4: I have the crown jewel right here, and if you 864 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,400 Speaker 4: don't want it, that's okay, that's your choice. 865 00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:26,359 Speaker 2: I mean is it hard to separate? Yes? Yeah, yeah, 866 00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:28,120 Speaker 2: even though we. 867 00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:31,200 Speaker 4: Know as parents that's what we're supposed to do, meaning like, look, 868 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:36,239 Speaker 4: here's this charcouterie board of incredible, incredible meats and cheeses 869 00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,239 Speaker 4: and jams, like you can pick and eat whatever you 870 00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:39,920 Speaker 4: want from it. 871 00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,400 Speaker 2: I'm a vegetarian, right, but I'm a vegetarian exactly. 872 00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:44,400 Speaker 1: That would be the response. 873 00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,879 Speaker 4: I'm not a vegetarian, but no, I know, but that's 874 00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:49,080 Speaker 4: exactly perfect to end the analogy. 875 00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:49,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. 876 00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,120 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, it's hard to let go, I 877 00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,359 Speaker 4: guess because these are the kids that you love more 878 00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,440 Speaker 4: than anything in the world, you know, and all you 879 00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,719 Speaker 4: can do is put it out there and they either 880 00:51:58,760 --> 00:51:59,759 Speaker 4: take from it or they don't. 881 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:04,839 Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah, it's that balance between you know, they're grown now, 882 00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:09,160 Speaker 1: they are parents. I you know, they have children or 883 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:12,160 Speaker 1: one of them has I have a grandson, and so 884 00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:17,040 Speaker 1: it's really a very you know, letting them be the 885 00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:20,200 Speaker 1: best that they can be in their own terms, waiting 886 00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,479 Speaker 1: to ask for advice if it's ever asked for, rather 887 00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,080 Speaker 1: than giving too much of it. But you know, where 888 00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:30,160 Speaker 1: is the balance as a parent between you know, sort 889 00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:36,800 Speaker 1: of giving advice and information and you know, and backing 890 00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,600 Speaker 1: off and letting somebody experience their own life these. 891 00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:44,480 Speaker 4: Oh gosh, trying to have sixteen, fourteen, and eleven. 892 00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:47,520 Speaker 2: So you know, you're in the mix of that whole world. 893 00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:51,200 Speaker 4: And yeah, you try not to be too preachy, but 894 00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:54,640 Speaker 4: at the same time, it's like I've been through some stuff. Yes, 895 00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,040 Speaker 4: you know, I'm imparting my wisdom. I know you might 896 00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:01,600 Speaker 4: be rolling your eyes, but I know they're listening. Here's 897 00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,960 Speaker 4: how I know. Just recently, I was out with my 898 00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:07,279 Speaker 4: son and a bunch of people, and you know, we 899 00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:09,680 Speaker 4: were in Europe actually, just like four three weeks ago, 900 00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:15,040 Speaker 4: and he started to talk about how he what he believes, 901 00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,000 Speaker 4: you know, and sort of from a deeper emotional place 902 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,880 Speaker 4: which I've never heard him talk from. And it blew 903 00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:25,200 Speaker 4: me away because all of the things that I had 904 00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:27,840 Speaker 4: said to him in passing or in trying to sort of, 905 00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:30,080 Speaker 4: you know, teach him lessons. 906 00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:31,040 Speaker 2: One way or the other. 907 00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,640 Speaker 4: You never think it's going in. It's in and out, 908 00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,760 Speaker 4: you know. But all of a sudden he starts spouting 909 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,600 Speaker 4: off all of this stuff that I have, you know, 910 00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:44,279 Speaker 4: hopefully had given to him, and it stuck, and I'm like, oh. 911 00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:46,799 Speaker 4: I was very emotional because I was like, holy shit, 912 00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,080 Speaker 4: this is unbelievable. 913 00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,480 Speaker 2: And it was validation that you know, they do. 914 00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:55,160 Speaker 4: Listen, they do take it in, even if they you 915 00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,640 Speaker 4: don't think that they do, they do. They sponge it up. 916 00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:00,680 Speaker 1: You are one hundred percent correct. And I had this, 917 00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:05,240 Speaker 1: you know, with my own stepdaughter, and she was really 918 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,239 Speaker 1: hoping when she saw that my wife and I were 919 00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,520 Speaker 1: falling in love, and she was hoping that my wife 920 00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:14,440 Speaker 1: would get back to with the biological dad, and she 921 00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,560 Speaker 1: did everything possible to get you know, to get to 922 00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:21,799 Speaker 1: get me out of Liz and I not be in 923 00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,160 Speaker 1: love with each other anymore. And then she was, you know, 924 00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,360 Speaker 1: but she was breaking up with her first boyfriend, and 925 00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,879 Speaker 1: they did come to me for help, and so as 926 00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:35,000 Speaker 1: I was sharing with them some of these things, she goes, oh, 927 00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,440 Speaker 1: that's what you and mom do. And it was like, 928 00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,800 Speaker 1: I had no idea that she was even allowing anything 929 00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:47,520 Speaker 1: to enter into her consciousness desire to make sure so 930 00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:49,600 Speaker 1: you're You're absolutely right. And I think what you're doing 931 00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:55,040 Speaker 1: with your dad will be one of the greatest contributors 932 00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,759 Speaker 1: to your children's growth and development. To see you make 933 00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:03,160 Speaker 1: that connection and as you as you're going through and 934 00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:07,000 Speaker 1: sort of getting to be able to appreciate specifically what 935 00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,640 Speaker 1: your dad is doing and being able to say, you know, 936 00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,520 Speaker 1: did he how do I feel about him taking this 937 00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:17,120 Speaker 1: time out for me from his day? What else could 938 00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:20,799 Speaker 1: he be doing that he is making me more important? For? 939 00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,560 Speaker 1: What is the shame in his life about him not 940 00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:28,080 Speaker 1: having contact with me that he has had the courage 941 00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:31,160 Speaker 1: to work with and work through and talk with me about. 942 00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:33,520 Speaker 1: And there's you know, there's got to be a thousand 943 00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:37,400 Speaker 1: things that you that you can specifically hone in to 944 00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:41,000 Speaker 1: appreciate about what your dad has done that will both 945 00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,560 Speaker 1: open him up at another level. And as you share 946 00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:48,839 Speaker 1: those things with your children, just give them without giving 947 00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:53,440 Speaker 1: them advice, Just share your story and your story becomes 948 00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:55,279 Speaker 1: what you just have a few minutes ago. 949 00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:57,280 Speaker 2: That is so true. 950 00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:01,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, because there's a way it's like burying the broccoli, 951 00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:03,840 Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Like, you know, making the 952 00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,520 Speaker 4: broccoli taste really good. Somehow you put it in a 953 00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,200 Speaker 4: sauce or whatever, and the kids are eating their vegetables 954 00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:12,759 Speaker 4: without knowing about it. Yes, similarly, that's kind of what 955 00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,920 Speaker 4: it is. It's like, don't be so direct. Bury the 956 00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:19,320 Speaker 4: message in your life in a tale, in a story, 957 00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:21,040 Speaker 4: you know, totally. 958 00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:22,840 Speaker 1: Do you tease your children? 959 00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:27,320 Speaker 4: Oh my god, well beyond anything that potentially is healthy. 960 00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:30,800 Speaker 4: I mean, I since they were little, I have messed 961 00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:33,880 Speaker 4: with my kids so much so that the gullible is 962 00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,319 Speaker 4: not even a word in their vocabulary. I can't get 963 00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,960 Speaker 4: anything by them now. Since they were little, I tease them. 964 00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:41,840 Speaker 4: I still tease them, I mean. 965 00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:44,160 Speaker 2: And they tease me. They tease. 966 00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:49,200 Speaker 4: You see how that unity it's a real it's a 967 00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:52,000 Speaker 4: real sort of coming togetherness, and how we all kind 968 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:54,960 Speaker 4: of mess with each other, for sure, that's really what. 969 00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:58,040 Speaker 1: So of course, every virtually taken to its extreme, can 970 00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:00,880 Speaker 1: become advice, and so I'm not sure teasing can't go 971 00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:01,359 Speaker 1: too far. 972 00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:03,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't want to hurt feelings, you know. 973 00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,279 Speaker 1: Well you will sort of hurt feelings, but you know. 974 00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:08,640 Speaker 4: I have, I've done that. I'm like, oh dude, I'm sorry. 975 00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:10,200 Speaker 4: I was not trying to do that. 976 00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:16,760 Speaker 1: It's very teasing is like a fruit smoothie you and 977 00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,520 Speaker 1: with that that can cover up wheat grass. Wheat grass 978 00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:22,240 Speaker 1: is the criticism, and the teasing can be like, you know, 979 00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:24,680 Speaker 1: you're exaggerating, you're having fun, and you're winking your eyes 980 00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:28,080 Speaker 1: and all those types of things, and that allows the 981 00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,960 Speaker 1: teasing to be the it allows the wheat grass of 982 00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:35,640 Speaker 1: the criticism to be taken down more easily. And and 983 00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,920 Speaker 1: so that's a very valuable thing to do when you 984 00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:41,440 Speaker 1: you know, when you and so in the Role Made 985 00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:43,720 Speaker 1: to Sell Me book, there's a whole you know, semi 986 00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:48,960 Speaker 1: chapter on exactly the dynamics of teasing. And because so 987 00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:53,760 Speaker 1: this isn't often a very big misunderstanding between husbands and 988 00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:57,280 Speaker 1: wives about what what does you know, my goodness, Jimmy 989 00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:00,640 Speaker 1: or Jane, she cried, why would you ever make our 990 00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:05,160 Speaker 1: child cry? You know? And so that and what that's about, 991 00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:07,840 Speaker 1: and how to balance that and how to communicate to 992 00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:10,600 Speaker 1: a mom that might feel more protective to the child 993 00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:13,400 Speaker 1: what the value is. But at the same time as 994 00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:16,480 Speaker 1: we listen to mom about you know, when she feels 995 00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:17,439 Speaker 1: it has gone too far. 996 00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:21,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, teasing it within a relationship to a romantic 997 00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:25,120 Speaker 4: relationship is foreplay, you know, I mean big time where 998 00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:27,720 Speaker 4: they can tease each other and poke each other even physically. 999 00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:30,560 Speaker 4: It's it's you know, because you know how that can 1000 00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,640 Speaker 4: sort of escalate to something amazing when you start to 1001 00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:35,480 Speaker 4: tease that way, you know. 1002 00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:37,640 Speaker 2: And then and then one more little thing. It's funny. 1003 00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:39,080 Speaker 2: It just came to my mind last night. 1004 00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:42,760 Speaker 4: My daughter had a little earache and she will put 1005 00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:44,440 Speaker 4: these drops in and she's just scared. 1006 00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:45,320 Speaker 2: She didn't want it in. 1007 00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:48,840 Speaker 4: And I was like, her name is Rio, and I'm 1008 00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,680 Speaker 4: like Rio, like it's fine, Like you put the drops in. 1009 00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:54,600 Speaker 4: I'm sure the spider will just will come out exactly 1010 00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,800 Speaker 4: what I'm like, you know, the spider will fly, They'll 1011 00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,400 Speaker 4: just crawl out. And and she doesn't really cry much 1012 00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:04,000 Speaker 4: this one and she starts crying. I'm like, I'm sorry, 1013 00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:06,320 Speaker 4: I'm just messing with you. 1014 00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:09,440 Speaker 2: Daddy wanted to pay that. I'm like, I'm just kidding. 1015 00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:12,400 Speaker 2: There's no spider in your ear, you know right. 1016 00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:17,560 Speaker 4: I literally took it too far less. 1017 00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:18,600 Speaker 1: And that's take you too far? Is you know that 1018 00:59:18,720 --> 00:59:21,960 Speaker 1: the next time you do that, oftentimes one of the 1019 00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:24,960 Speaker 1: experience will be was instead of knowing that you're taking 1020 00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:28,400 Speaker 1: that to that level, and you have and you're helping 1021 00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,280 Speaker 1: to build resilience in her about about that type of thing. 1022 00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:36,200 Speaker 1: And so you know the value of being able to 1023 00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:40,360 Speaker 1: hear criticism from somebody you love and then also play 1024 00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:44,040 Speaker 1: with It helps people to be able to to take 1025 00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:47,440 Speaker 1: criticism in. And if you don't teach kids to be 1026 00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:51,200 Speaker 1: able to take criticism in before they leave the house, 1027 00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:53,840 Speaker 1: you haven't prepared them to handle the criticism in the 1028 00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:56,680 Speaker 1: real world. Right and in the real world. What the 1029 00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,880 Speaker 1: more successful you are, the more criticism you will experience. 1030 00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:02,360 Speaker 2: For sure. For sure. Explain what the new one is. 1031 01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:06,400 Speaker 1: And so the new book is roll Mate to Soulmate, 1032 01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:11,320 Speaker 1: and it's everything that we've been talking about here, this 1033 01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:15,640 Speaker 1: caring and sharing experience of being able to hear your 1034 01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:21,080 Speaker 1: partner's criticism without becoming defensive. Basically set up how you 1035 01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:25,160 Speaker 1: can do that step by step, and how you can 1036 01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:28,560 Speaker 1: what are the ways of maintaining a conflict free zone 1037 01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:32,280 Speaker 1: and bringing the concerns you have to a safe place 1038 01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:36,880 Speaker 1: during the week. How do you go through the process 1039 01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:41,880 Speaker 1: of appreciating specifically, how do you do the teasing effectively? 1040 01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:48,120 Speaker 1: Just hundreds of seven to twenty three. It's twenty three 1041 01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:52,600 Speaker 1: love enhancements that I put forward, but seven of them 1042 01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:56,439 Speaker 1: are the crucials what I call secrets to lifelong love, 1043 01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:59,360 Speaker 1: and that's all available. 1044 01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:02,880 Speaker 4: Amazing. I can't wait now I will be reading that myself. 1045 01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:05,280 Speaker 4: I love these I love these books, you know. I mean, 1046 01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:09,200 Speaker 4: it's just even if you're reading things that are recognizable 1047 01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:13,120 Speaker 4: at the theay reinforce and you've dedicated your life to it, 1048 01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:16,520 Speaker 4: and there sounds like there's a no bigger experts. 1049 01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:20,800 Speaker 2: And this has been amazing. Doctor. I've had a really 1050 01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:21,320 Speaker 2: good time. 1051 01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:25,520 Speaker 1: I've had a wonderful time. And you are so You 1052 01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:28,840 Speaker 1: give such a gift to the world by having done 1053 01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:31,360 Speaker 1: the work yourself, with your father having done the work 1054 01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:36,800 Speaker 1: and therapy being opened about it, being a strong presenting 1055 01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,600 Speaker 1: man but at the same time being vulnerable. These are 1056 01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:41,640 Speaker 1: gifts both to your kids and also of the world. 1057 01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:42,720 Speaker 1: And so thank you. 1058 01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:46,640 Speaker 4: I appreciate that. That makes me feel good. All right, Well, 1059 01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:49,800 Speaker 4: have a great one, and hopefully are paths cross. 1060 01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:52,200 Speaker 2: You never know. Let me know if you ever need 1061 01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:54,240 Speaker 2: me for anything, and I'll be there. 1062 01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:55,960 Speaker 1: And vice versa. 1063 01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:56,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, I will. 1064 01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:57,840 Speaker 1: I might be. 1065 01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:00,320 Speaker 4: Calling you in a heap of tears one day. You 1066 01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:08,120 Speaker 4: never know, all right, buddy, I appreciate it. Okay, thanks man. Wow, 1067 01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:10,520 Speaker 4: that was great. 1068 01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,479 Speaker 2: I mean all we have, really, all we have is love. 1069 01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:14,000 Speaker 1: You know. 1070 01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:16,560 Speaker 4: I don't want to sound like an asshole, but it's 1071 01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:19,320 Speaker 4: just the kind of the truth. I mean, what are 1072 01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:24,480 Speaker 4: we without love? Love is why is how we survive. 1073 01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,240 Speaker 4: I mean, when you really think about it, good love, 1074 01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:30,120 Speaker 4: bad love. I'm not saying it's good. It's all good love. 1075 01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:35,920 Speaker 4: You come into this world and immediately you are surrounded 1076 01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:39,320 Speaker 4: by love or not, and you can pick up on 1077 01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:44,920 Speaker 4: negative love too, but you're searching and striving unconsciously to 1078 01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:49,280 Speaker 4: be taken care of. The point is is love and relationships, 1079 01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:53,960 Speaker 4: Love in sibling relationships, love and friendships. If you are 1080 01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:58,360 Speaker 4: living a loveless life, then it's not really worth it. 1081 01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:02,560 Speaker 4: So it's about finding love, keeping love, maintaining love because 1082 01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:07,560 Speaker 4: it fluctuates, it goes up, it goes down, finding love 1083 01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:08,120 Speaker 4: in nature. 1084 01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:10,920 Speaker 2: Love is all around. 1085 01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:17,040 Speaker 4: Anyway, that was great. I will see you next time. 1086 01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:21,840 Speaker 4: Thanks Doc, that was a nice conversation. Oliver Hudson out