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Speaker 3: We begin this hour with stocks rising as traders boost
Speaker 3: fed rate cut bet after cooler inflation data. Michael o'rouric
Speaker 3: of Jones trading is cautious, writing not only are stocks
Speaker 3: expensive in their own right, but they are also at
Speaker 3: the most expensive levels versus treasuries in twenty two years.
Speaker 3: Michael joins us. Now, Michael, good morning, and thank you
Speaker 3: so much for joining us on this holiday week. Merry
Speaker 3: Christmas and happy holidays to you and your family. So,
Speaker 3: if you think stocks are very expensive, now what are
Speaker 3: you doing? Are you selling?
Speaker 4: I think you just have to be more selective.
Speaker 5: The S and P five hundred equal weight is trades
Speaker 5: at a significant discount to the S and P five hundred,
Speaker 5: so of course that expensive nature within the S and
Speaker 5: P five.
Speaker 4: Hundred, it's all off the top end in the megan
Speaker 4: cap stocks.
Speaker 5: And I think obviously we've had a tremendous two year
Speaker 5: run here, we have a new presidential administration coming in.
Speaker 5: You can expect a lot of volatility. So they're definitely
Speaker 5: a pocket. A lot of numerous value stocks out there
Speaker 5: in the market in places you can invest.
Speaker 4: You just have to be a lot more.
Speaker 5: Selective, and I'd be cautious about chasing the S and
Speaker 5: P five hundred itself.
Speaker 3: You talked about Trump in your note, and you said,
Speaker 3: in the midst of the post election euphoria, the equity
Speaker 3: market forgot that Trump is volatility bullish. Not only is
Speaker 3: Trump willing to break a few eggs to make an omelet,
Speaker 3: he will break a few extra simply because he again,
Speaker 3: was the market reminded of that scarlet mention at the
Speaker 3: top of the show we almost had a government chuck out.
Speaker 3: Was the market reminded of that last week?
Speaker 5: I think it was, and I think people are starting
Speaker 5: to realize, while you know, a lot of The rally
Speaker 5: pins the election has been this, we're going to cut spending,
Speaker 5: we're gonna cut regulations, we're going to keep our tax cuts,
Speaker 5: and we're going to grow GDP and you know, you
Speaker 5: go through this government shutdown or potentially you know, you know,
Speaker 5: we risk the government shut down here, and you're like,
Speaker 5: you have to just remember, there's there's a lot it's
Speaker 5: it's not an easy path to achieve those goals. Those
Speaker 5: are great goals to try to achieve. It's you know,
Speaker 5: I love it, it's ambitious, and I hope we do
Speaker 5: achieve it. But you're not gonna It's Washington, d C.
Speaker 5: You're not going to get there in a straight path.
Speaker 5: And the market shouldn't price all that in right away,
Speaker 5: which is essentially what we've start to do in the
Speaker 5: equity markets.
Speaker 4: And and you know what you're seeing in the bond
Speaker 4: market here.
Speaker 5: Is it's not fully believing everything that the equity market
Speaker 5: is excited about. And that's why you see a ten
Speaker 5: year yield up above four and a half percent.
Speaker 1: Well, speaking of the market pricing in a lot of positivity,
Speaker 1: I look at Tesla shares up about sixty seven percent
Speaker 1: since election date. Elon Musk has really been a tailwind
Speaker 1: for the overall market through Tesla mainly, at what point
Speaker 1: does he become a headwind for the market.
Speaker 4: Well, that's the interesting aspect.
Speaker 5: You know, One thing I find interesting is Elon Musk
Speaker 5: has numerous companies, most of them private. He can benefit
Speaker 5: from a relationship with President Trump through any of those
Speaker 5: ventures as well. So for everyone to just bet on Tesla,
Speaker 5: which you know, you were just talking about the automotive industry,
Speaker 5: there's a lot of challenges out there, it seems like
Speaker 5: a really aggressive, myopic bet. So you know, going forward,
Speaker 5: I think people again they need to be a little
Speaker 5: more pragmatic out there and realized.
Speaker 4: Elon Musk is an influential guy. He's a powerful guy.
Speaker 5: But it does you know, Tesla is not necessarily gonna
Speaker 5: be the biggest beneficiary of Trump's really you know, musk
Speaker 5: relationship with Trump and as we know, sometimes you know
Speaker 5: these relationships President Trump had, they go through rut periods,
Speaker 5: and so again it's really risky you just bet on
Speaker 5: one stock to expect this, you know, this this bromance
Speaker 5: that can give.
Speaker 1: You well you mentioned Tesla, of course, it is a
Speaker 1: low hanging fruit here when you're looking at who would
Speaker 1: benefit from the Trump trade. When it comes to pragmatic
Speaker 1: approaches to challenges, I think about what's going on with
Speaker 1: Honda and Nissan, and Hemery brought this up earlier. This
Speaker 1: as an example of the M and A that we
Speaker 1: can expect from where the markets is, From where you sit,
Speaker 1: is this a pragmatic deal that has positive ramifications for
Speaker 1: US automakers?
Speaker 5: You know, I'm not an automotive industry expert, but I
Speaker 5: do agree with everything you both said about this is
Speaker 5: a deal coming out of weakness. And we know all
Speaker 5: the weakness that's going on in Germany, and of course
Speaker 5: their auto industry is he there. So you're looking at
Speaker 5: a situation where there are a lot of challenges out
Speaker 5: there in this world. And again, you don't want to
Speaker 5: see companies making deals out of weakness, but it's clearly
Speaker 5: that's what's going on here. So you have to think
Speaker 5: there's some risk out there.
Speaker 3: When you look at the biggest risks heading into next year,
Speaker 3: obviously the auto industry is one of them. What else
Speaker 3: is on the horizon.
Speaker 5: I just think it's the overall enthusiasm for everything we've
Speaker 5: had such a specuative market.
Speaker 4: Bloomberg has this great article about the wildest.
Speaker 5: Trades of twenty twenty four, and you see that, whether
Speaker 5: it's the leverage ETFs, you know, some of these other
Speaker 5: specutive trades you're seeing out there, paying these significant premiums
Speaker 5: to net asks of value to some of these you know,
Speaker 5: stocks and ETFs out there. There's a lot of optimism
Speaker 5: built into this market right now. And it's not to
Speaker 5: say there's not things to be optimistic about. It's just
Speaker 5: when you start overpaying for them, you open yourself to this
Speaker 5: additional up to this additional risk that you know, if
Speaker 5: there's a bump in the road when your priced for perfection,
Speaker 5: it can be pretty painful.
Speaker 3: And the market right now is pricing in good policy
Speaker 3: from the income the administration, this Trump trade. Yet we
Speaker 3: haven't seen any of that policy yet. His term will
Speaker 3: begin January twentieth. Michael, how are you thinking about the
Speaker 3: sequencing of next year when it comes to things like immigration,
Speaker 3: tax cut, and tariffs.
Speaker 5: Well, I mean that's exactly you know, that's exactly what
Speaker 5: I'm talking about. It's you know, translating this this this
Speaker 5: policy goes to actual policy takes a lot longer than
Speaker 5: the markets obviously pricing at this point in time anyone
Speaker 5: remembers the first Trump administration. He you know, he loves
Speaker 5: to negotiate, he loves to drive a hard bargain, he
Speaker 5: loves to push.
Speaker 4: You know, his opponents to the other end of the table.
Speaker 5: So it's not going to be pretty and you know,
Speaker 5: trying to achieve these goals. So I think I think
Speaker 5: that's a key thing that the market's risking. So when
Speaker 5: you think of the sequence of policies you talk about,
Speaker 5: it's going to take time for all that to play out,
Speaker 5: and again the markets tried to price it all in
Speaker 5: here in the span of two months.
Speaker 1: Mike, I'm thinking about what's going on in the treasury market,
Speaker 1: and on the long end, we've really seen yield steadily
Speaker 1: rise over the last two weeks, and there was some
Speaker 1: relief on Friday, but it does look like yields are
Speaker 1: inching higher once again today and that yield curve continues
Speaker 1: to steepen. How does that set us up for twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five or do you kind of dismiss what we're
Speaker 1: seeing in the final week here.
Speaker 4: I don't dismiss what we're seeing in the final week here.
Speaker 5: I do think the ten year yield is so important
Speaker 5: because so many instruments price off that the market prices
Speaker 5: off that. I mean, right now, the S and P
Speaker 5: five hundred earnings yield is about fifty or sixty basis
Speaker 5: points below the treasury yields, as we mentioned earlier, and
Speaker 5: so you're talking about stocks and more expensive relative to
Speaker 5: your quote unquote safe, risk free acid treasuries than they've
Speaker 5: been in twenty two years. That just, you know, is
Speaker 5: an example of the speculative further out there in the
Speaker 5: equity market, what happens if we see this ten year
Speaker 5: yield can chinue your rise and test five percent. Equities
Speaker 5: will undoubtedly see selling pressure if that happens right now,
Speaker 5: I think this is a little bit of a crisis
Speaker 5: of confidence in the Fed, in the manner in which they.
Speaker 4: Reverse course last week.
Speaker 5: Uh, there's also a little comment, you know, obviously concerns
Speaker 5: about inflation up to again and concerns about President Trump
Speaker 5: having inflationary policies. So if we see this ten year
Speaker 5: yield continue rage, you're going to feel that reverberate throughout
Speaker 5: all financial markets. So it's something we want to see
Speaker 5: stabilize here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what would be the catalyst that would send that
Speaker 1: tenure yield to five percent.
Speaker 5: I think it's everything we've seen, Like you had, the
Speaker 5: FED last week, you know, you know, conclude one hundred
Speaker 5: you know basis point easing cycle while increasing their inflation
Speaker 5: forecast for the next two years. You know, basically, according
Speaker 5: to the forecast they released Wednesday, we're not we'll run
Speaker 5: for above target, you know, above its inflation target for
Speaker 5: six years, which seems kind of ridiculous to be cutting
Speaker 5: rates when.
Speaker 4: You're doing that. So that's one issue.
Speaker 5: Obviously, depending on how all these Trump policies play out,
Speaker 5: Everyone's concerned that they're going to drive inflation, and that's
Speaker 5: that's a lingering fear. So treasuries have really been weak
Speaker 5: send or you know, acted poorly sent just before the election.
Speaker 5: This was just the latest round of the selloff, and
Speaker 5: like I said, we need to see them stabilize. If
Speaker 5: they do push up to five percent, the S and
Speaker 5: P five hundred is going to have a you know,
Speaker 5: significant pressure on it.
Speaker 3: Michael, what's your base case for next year in terms
Speaker 3: of SED cuts.
Speaker 5: I think, you know, I'm gonna go with the forecast
Speaker 5: at fifty basis points at this point, you know, and
Speaker 5: seeing although the Fed seems to change in every quarter.
Speaker 5: But I think we have a very strong economy. I'm
Speaker 5: surprised they cut rates as they did. You know, GDP
Speaker 5: for this quarter is tracking three percent. GDP last quarter
Speaker 5: was three percent. When you think about the you know,
Speaker 5: the higher rate environment in the past two years, it
Speaker 5: has not slowed the economy. So when the Fed keep
Speaker 5: sitting we're restricted. You know, I'm not seeing it. You're
Speaker 5: not seeing the unemployment rates four point two percent, which
Speaker 5: is basically at the Fed's want run target.
Speaker 4: So it's it's.
Speaker 5: Really hard to predict what the Fed's going to do
Speaker 5: because they keep moving their policy goals around and it
Speaker 5: doesn't seem to be tied to the movements within the economy.
Speaker 6: So hire for longer.
Speaker 3: In twenty twenty five, Michael Ourk and Jones Trading, thank
Speaker 3: you so much for joining us. Happy holidays and New
Speaker 3: Year to you.
Speaker 1: Joining us now is Clint Henderson of The Point Sky. Clint,
Speaker 1: it is good to speak with you. Ann, Marie and
Speaker 1: I are in the office because it is a Monday
Speaker 1: and we still have two days ago before Christmas. Talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about the calendar effect because with the
Speaker 1: holidays on Wednesday this year, it means there isn't a
Speaker 1: natural long weekend for people to take, and maybe that
Speaker 1: spreads the travel out a little bit here.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's certainly helping.
Speaker 7: Interestingly, though, the Sunday after Thanksgiving we saw the highest
Speaker 7: single day ever, so that didn't really impact Thanksgiving travel,
Speaker 7: and we're expecting record breaking crowds. I will say the
Speaker 7: airlines got through the busiest part of the lead up
Speaker 7: to Christmas fairly well, despite a few storms, so that's
Speaker 7: good news. And I do think the airlines in general
Speaker 7: are in better position. They're staffed up, they have the
Speaker 7: planes they need, they have the people they need to
Speaker 7: get things moving quickly, and they seem to be able
Speaker 7: to recover from storms better right now too. So barring
Speaker 7: a major storm like we saw in twenty twenty two,
Speaker 7: fingers crossed will get through the holidays with flying colors.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so far, no major storm at the moment, and
Speaker 1: also good news, no shutdown either, so everyone can get
Speaker 1: through airport security the way that you would expect them
Speaker 1: to during a busy holiday season. People are obviously traveling
Speaker 1: to visit family or go home, but they're also going
Speaker 1: away on vacation. Where are they going to Clint?
Speaker 6: So it's really interesting.
Speaker 7: We've seen the usual suspects are obviously very popular. Los Angeles,
Speaker 7: New York has been going through some incredible record breaking
Speaker 7: crowds the big cities in the US and also places
Speaker 7: like Florida and Cancoon. But we're now seeing really interesting
Speaker 7: data that suggests Americans are going much further. They seem
Speaker 7: to be being inspired by TikTok and Instagram to really
Speaker 7: get out there and have a.
Speaker 6: Little bit more exotic travel.
Speaker 7: Tokyo is actually one of the top cities according to
Speaker 7: Chase this year for international travel, which is really interesting.
Speaker 6: The strong US dollar is certainly helping.
Speaker 7: I think that's going to really push up numbers in
Speaker 7: Europe as well, since the euro has been falling lately.
Speaker 7: So look for some international bargains. I just booked myself
Speaker 7: a trip in January to Portugal. Incredible what you can
Speaker 7: get because the US dollar is so strong right now.
Speaker 7: And then, don't sleep on shoulder season travel. A lot
Speaker 7: of people are traveling now well into winter and then
Speaker 7: of course for the shoulder season which we love, which
Speaker 7: is spring and fall, and people are spending longer away.
Speaker 7: That's a new survey we just did found people are
Speaker 7: spending five and a half days as opposed to four
Speaker 7: and a half days like they used to. So people
Speaker 7: are going further and they're going for longer.
Speaker 3: Why are they spending longer? Is that they feel that
Speaker 3: is it? The strong us do feel like their money
Speaker 3: can stretch them that much longer on a trip.
Speaker 6: I do think that's part of it.
Speaker 7: I also think people are really into experiences now, as
Speaker 7: you're sound bite alluded to. And I think the other
Speaker 7: interesting thing is people can work from home now, so
Speaker 7: they're tacking on a day or two two business trips
Speaker 7: that they might not have in the past because they
Speaker 7: have to be in the office. So you know, you're
Speaker 7: in the office today, but I'm able to work from home,
Speaker 7: and I think more and more people have been able
Speaker 7: to do that, So you're seeing the amount of time
Speaker 7: they're spending away stretched a bit.
Speaker 3: Clint, any viewers that are preparing to travel this week,
Speaker 3: what's your number one tip?
Speaker 6: Have the airline app installed on your phone.
Speaker 7: Not only is that how you're going to get Wi
Speaker 7: Fi and entertainment on the plane. You can track your flights,
Speaker 7: see if it's on time, see where your plane is
Speaker 7: coming from. And finally that's where they're going to offer
Speaker 7: you cheap upgrades, so you beat out e lead travelers
Speaker 7: like me, so you can get a cheap upgrade to
Speaker 7: first class.
Speaker 6: So who doesn't want that as a Christmas gift?
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 1: What about luggage, That's a big issue here, And I
Speaker 1: know that this might sound kind of trivial, but you know,
Speaker 1: we're all trying to get by bringing it on as
Speaker 1: a carry on, and yet when you get to the
Speaker 1: airport and you're at the gate, they make you check
Speaker 1: it in anyway at the gate they say, oh, well
Speaker 1: wave the fees, but that's you know, everyone's trying to
Speaker 1: avoid that scenario. Any advice on that front.
Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, I'm team carry on, so I hate
Speaker 7: checking baggage. But during Christmas when I come from New
Speaker 7: York to California, I bring presents with me, so I
Speaker 7: do check bags. And you know what, I got an
Speaker 7: Apple air tag for the first time in my life.
Speaker 7: You know, we've been writing about this and talking about
Speaker 7: it for years. My team loves it, but it's the
Speaker 7: first time I've used it, and that is really cool.
Speaker 7: And now with the air tags, some airlines allow you
Speaker 7: to share the location with the airline, so if your
Speaker 7: luggage gets lost, so maybe I have to look more
Speaker 7: into checking luggage in the future and try not to
Speaker 7: be the last to board, pay for that extra seat,
Speaker 7: get the airline credit cards so.
Speaker 6: You can be among the first to board that plane.
Speaker 1: Talking your book, Clint Henderson of The Points Guy, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us.
Speaker 8: Really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Jonathan Miller of Miller Samuel is staying optimistic. He says,
Speaker 1: while we don't expect sales to rise to normal levels,
Speaker 1: they will be hired than last year. Those who can
Speaker 1: afford to buy at higher rates will probably do so.
Speaker 1: Mortgage rates will probably end up lower than they start
Speaker 1: in a year, but not low. Jonathan joins us. Now, so, Jonathan,
Speaker 1: you have actually noticed an uptic in existing home sales,
Speaker 1: in particular in high end markets in places like New York.
Speaker 8: Yes, that's actually been the story if you think about it.
Speaker 9: Many potential home buyers have been waiting for about three
Speaker 9: years since the initial FED moves, and I think time
Speaker 9: is sort of running out for people as life moves on.
Speaker 9: We're already seeing in contract activity and some of the
Speaker 9: markets that we cover really begin rising it back in
Speaker 9: the summer, not just after the election, but of course
Speaker 9: on the National Front. Existing home sales for the last
Speaker 9: couple of months have been up, which means that you know,
Speaker 9: with all the sort of people holding waiting for lower rates,
Speaker 9: I still think there's a thinking that, you know, perhaps
Speaker 9: a year from now rates will still be a little
Speaker 9: bit lower, and those that can afford to buy are buying.
Speaker 9: The challenge is supply. Supply. Supply continues to be a problem.
Speaker 9: It's less of a problem in the Sun Belt states
Speaker 9: where there's been a lot more development activity, but still,
Speaker 9: you know, a year from now, I think housing prices
Speaker 9: are going to be higher than they are today, and
Speaker 9: so you have to sort of, you know, make the
Speaker 9: decision of do you wait for rates to come down
Speaker 9: at some point? If they will, it doesn't feel like
Speaker 9: it with the incoming administration's economic policies.
Speaker 1: So you mentioned the sun Belt and this idea that
Speaker 1: it is the inventory that's available. People point to that
Speaker 1: and say that they want to go move to somewhere
Speaker 1: where perhaps housing is more affordable. But it's misleading though
Speaker 1: when you look at supply increases as well, because we're
Speaker 1: coming off a pretty low base. How often is it
Speaker 1: that people go over and realize actually, the picture here
Speaker 1: is very different from what they had anticipated, and if
Speaker 1: you compared to say, five, ten years ago, it's completely different.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 9: I think post pandemic, there's still an expectation by consumers
Speaker 9: when they go from say the Northeast or California to
Speaker 9: the sun Belt, that they're going to get a very
Speaker 9: low price and the affordability is going to be dramatically improved. However,
Speaker 9: that's been where a lot of the price appreciation has
Speaker 9: been concentrated. You know, as people with work from home,
Speaker 9: are you looking at other places to be situated. One
Speaker 9: of the things that we're seeing in, for example, markets
Speaker 9: like Florida's actually South Florida, is.
Speaker 8: That the the.
Speaker 9: Higher end threshold, meaning pricing north of say a million dollars.
Speaker 9: Not to be cavalier, but the numbers is we're seeing
Speaker 9: a tremendous uptick in activity. Perhaps that has more to
Speaker 9: do with elevated financial markets than it does to more
Speaker 9: you know, the factor of higher mortgage rates.
Speaker 3: Jonathan, Given the fact that there are higher mortgage rates,
Speaker 3: are there deals to be had on the price when
Speaker 3: going out and buying home.
Speaker 8: I think the I think the simple answer to that
Speaker 8: is no.
Speaker 9: But and that's because even in markets where inventory is
Speaker 9: rising or there's parody with pre pandemic conditions, the demand
Speaker 9: is still pretty strong that people have been kept on
Speaker 9: hold for several years. So we're still seeing bidding wars.
Speaker 9: We're still seeing a fairly tight market. We're just not
Speaker 9: seeing a lot of discounting going on. And I think
Speaker 9: I think that's what consumers, you know, we're hoping for.
Speaker 3: And you expect an uptick in twenty twenty five. Where
Speaker 3: exactly do you think we can see an uptick in
Speaker 3: some of.
Speaker 9: This, Well, you know, the basic math is where the
Speaker 9: inventory is the tightest, that's where you're going to see the.
Speaker 8: Most uptick in price.
Speaker 9: You know, I would say that the biggest uptick in
Speaker 9: price is not going to be in the sun Belt.
Speaker 9: It's going to be to the north of that because
Speaker 9: that's where not as much new product has.
Speaker 8: Been built to come into the market.
Speaker 9: That's one of the challenges in markets in the sun
Speaker 9: Belt is that there's been more new construction as developers
Speaker 9: are anticipating the boom coming off the pandemic, and.
Speaker 8: It's a little it's been a little bit overdone.
Speaker 1: Jonathan, we talked about single family homes, what about multi
Speaker 1: family homes with the idea that mortgage rates will be
Speaker 1: lower at the end of the year than where they start,
Speaker 1: but not low by anyone's measure of what tends to
Speaker 1: count as low. How does that affect the decision to
Speaker 1: rent versus buy, and what does that mean for those
Speaker 1: who do own or looking to buy multi family properties.
Speaker 9: Well, one of the problems that we've had in the multifamily,
Speaker 9: particularly in the condo market, is that housing prices, you know,
Speaker 9: have risen just like single family quite a bit, and
Speaker 9: affordability is being challenged. The problem is in the multifamily
Speaker 9: there's more supply or excess supply, which means, you know,
Speaker 9: potential softening or more potential softening. So from a single
Speaker 9: family perspective, I think it's a little tougher to get
Speaker 9: a deal in the condo maybe a little bit more,
Speaker 9: but not in the high end market. You know, we're
Speaker 9: talking about you know, more normal price property. I think
Speaker 9: we'll see less price growth because supply is not as
Speaker 9: excessive as.
Speaker 8: As many consumers were thinking.
Speaker 1: Okay and moving away from residential property into commercial property.
Speaker 1: There's been a lot of discussion about an incoming Trump
Speaker 1: administration being good news for real estate overall, but in
Speaker 1: particular commercial real estate, especially with transactions picking up pace,
Speaker 1: or at least conversations about transactions picking up pace. Are
Speaker 1: there numbers that bear this out.
Speaker 9: So the way to think about commercial, and the part
Speaker 9: that I still am amazed is the narrative about commercial is, hey,
Speaker 9: it's coming back. It's you know, work from home maybe
Speaker 9: is going away because we are seeing you know, you know,
Speaker 9: various firms talking you know, ending work from home or
Speaker 9: severely reducing it. But really the conversation is almost entirely
Speaker 9: about class A. You know, if you think of commercial
Speaker 9: office as class A, B and C, A is doing
Speaker 9: just fine with relatively high occupancy and relatively stable and
Speaker 9: elevated leasing prices. It's a best in all the rest scenario.
Speaker 9: Class B and C are still being punished by the
Speaker 9: work from home phenomenon. And you know, many, many of
Speaker 9: my colleagues, including myself, believe that work from home is here,
Speaker 9: you know, structurally for you know, indefinitely, and that's where
Speaker 9: the opportunities are.
Speaker 8: In fact, we're we're seeing a little bit more on
Speaker 8: the B and C.
Speaker 9: We're seeing more residential office to residential conversion activity, which
Speaker 9: is difficult in high interest rate environments, but we're still
Speaker 9: seeing it beginning to occur. So I think that's where
Speaker 9: the upside is in the class B and C. It's
Speaker 9: not going to be sort of leasing up at normalized prices.
Speaker 8: One other point about that is a lot of.
Speaker 9: The B and C the problem with vacancy high vacancy
Speaker 9: in those markets is that the landlord can't reduce their
Speaker 9: prices to market level. Yes, and that is a condition
Speaker 9: that has stayed since the pandemic era, and I don't
Speaker 9: anticipate that changing in the near term.
Speaker 1: All right, Jonathan Miller of Miller Samuel, Thank you very
Speaker 1: much and happy holidays to you.
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