1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,719 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff? 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Your podcast where we talk about the thing that it 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: says in the title. Every week, I your host, always 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: the host, except for this week. On some of the 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,439 Speaker 1: other weeks, Margaret Killjoy bring you a different story about 6 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: different rebels and radicals and various cool people throughout history. 7 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: And this week, instead of doing it myself, I thought 8 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: to myself, Shannon Clay just wrote a book, and so 9 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: I brought on Shannon Clay to talk about it's in 10 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,639 Speaker 1: the book. Hi, Shannon, how are you Hello? I am 11 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 1: so well. I'm so excited to be the not host 12 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: host Yeah of today. No hosts, no math, no, no 13 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: usually hosts. Um, yeah, who are you? Who are you? Hello? One? 14 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: I am well to. My name is Shannon Clay. I 15 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: co authored a book, um with three other people on 16 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: It's called We Go Where They Go The Story of 17 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: Anti Racist Action. Uh, And it's the story of anti 18 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 1: racist action who was a radical anti racist youth movement 19 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 1: in like the late eighties through the early two thousand's. 20 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: That kind of the elevator pitch that I give about 21 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,760 Speaker 1: it is that it really was like proto Antifa really 22 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: laid the groundwork for what antifa when you know, when 23 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: that term is used correctly and actually refers to anything 24 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: and it's not just being thrown around by someone who 25 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: doesn't know what they're talking about. A are a anti 26 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: racist action. UM pretty much laid the groundwork for that 27 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: here in North America, in the US and Canada. So 28 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: that was the like thirty second description of it. But 29 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: also we're going to give a good, like longer description 30 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:53,279 Speaker 1: of it in this podcast, so that's exciting. Yeah. Also 31 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: we have Sophie, our producer, on the call how Today. Sophie, 32 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: I'm good, I have hot tea. That's good. How's Anderson? 33 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: And it's good. She's wearing a nice like warm flannel 34 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: and Um is sleeping right now. Anderson is a dog. 35 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 1: I feel like this is worth knowing for anyone who's listening. Yeah, 36 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: that was my question. Anderson is a dog, but don't 37 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: tell her because she doesn't think she's a dog. Yeah. Yeah, 38 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: she thinks she's a cat or a person. She thinks 39 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: she's she thinks she's a human. Okay, yeah, and you 40 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: know she could be. We don't know who are we 41 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 1: to say otherwise? Yeah? And our audio is edited by 42 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: Ian and our theme music was written for the show 43 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: by a woman, which is not a woman but instead 44 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: a woman one word you n woman w O m 45 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: A and this spelling be bro Okay. So what we're 46 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: going to do today is Shannon is going to tell 47 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: us the story of anti racist action. Shannon, what's anti 48 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:04,959 Speaker 1: racist action? Anti racist action was cool last youth movement 49 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: of cool people who did cool stuff. I say youth movement. 50 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: It was predominantly youth, very much like it was created 51 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: by and led by youth, and mostly consistent of youth. 52 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: But you know, a really cool theme that I enjoyed 53 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: throughout learning about the history was that, you know, it 54 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 1: takes all types, and so there were also a lot 55 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: of cool folks who brought in experience UM from previous 56 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: periods of organizing as well. But it was an anti 57 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: racist youth movement, or indeed, more specifically an anti fascist 58 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: youth movement, and sort of the like relationship between slash 59 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: tension between those two terms. But yeah, to get started UM, 60 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: it started in Minneapolis, Minnesota is where is one city 61 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: where the name was come up with. There were, in fact, 62 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: many different cities like all throughout the Midwest where kind 63 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: of the same thing kept happening. Fucking Nazis kept coming 64 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: to punk shows. Basically, Um, like that very much is 65 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: the is the genesis of everything. So in around like 66 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: six ish you have all these different like skinhead scenes 67 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: in these different cities. Skinhead is like this whole big 68 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: culture at this point. What might confuse people to know 69 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: not just of Nazis. Um, I think a lot of 70 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 1: time people think of skinhead is like almost a synonym 71 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: fluency even yeah, totally, that's the the general use that 72 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: I see around Yeah, or even like a more specific 73 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: type of Nazi sort of um in this big, scary 74 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: tattooed person with no hair who goes around sig high 75 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: line mh. But in fact that was not the case, 76 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: um skinhead. Well that's still not exclusively the case. But 77 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: so skinhead culture originally came out of like of England. 78 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: It was like a multiracial youth culture just built around music. 79 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: And so then it came over to the US. You 80 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 1: had these different skinhead crews in all of these different cities, 81 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: Like in the Midwest, the main one was the Baldies 82 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: in not the main skinhead crew, but the main skinhead 83 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: crew for our story, when it started in England, it wasn't. 84 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 1: It was like multiracial, not just in a like hey, 85 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: we let in people of color, but it was like 86 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,239 Speaker 1: actually generated by I think you know that this idea 87 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: better than I do, but I'm under the impression it 88 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: was a culture that was created by the combination of 89 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: people coming from different ethnic backgrounds working in England. Is that, yeah, exactly, 90 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: And it's the skinheads take this stuff seriously, the lineage 91 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: of all the different genres and obscure subcultures and uh, 92 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: you know what I'm more familiar with is that like, oh, 93 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: of course and punk, Like oh, there's the hardcore kids, 94 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: and there's the Googles, and there's the the you know, 95 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: pop punk kids and all of the stuff like and 96 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: it's all you look back and it's saying, I don't 97 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: know they all like so I don't know. They were 98 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: like mods and there were hard mods and there were 99 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,359 Speaker 1: this other thing and but basically lots of different like 100 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: youth cultures who liked music and it was a lot 101 00:05:55,920 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: of working class kids in English neighborhoods, Black kids from 102 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: uh like Jamaica and other parts of the Caribbean, um, 103 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: white kids from England, UH living in the same working 104 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: class neighborhoods going to shows together and finding out that 105 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: they kind of like each other's music, and from there 106 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: kind of developing their own music. That became a whole 107 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 1: skinhead culture that really was just based on like handsome clothes, 108 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: you know, a certain very specific style and shaved heads 109 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 1: and suspenders and Doc Martin's music and having a good 110 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: time and partying. Really m m hm, how did it 111 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: become Nazi? Sorry, this is not what I feel like. 112 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: I'm doing this terrible thing. This is Shannon came prepared 113 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: to talk about a r A. But I'm very curious 114 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: about this stuff. You know, it's it is a good question, 115 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: it's important, and we'll see it. Basically, we will see 116 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 1: how like it was pretty explicitly Nazis or like old 117 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: like white supremacist political people. Um, we're kind of looking 118 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: around and realizing that they were old and that they 119 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: like their ideas, especially if they were like literally Nazis, Uh, 120 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: we're not popular in many ways, and that they were 121 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: sort of aging out of that, that they didn't have 122 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: new blood coming in basically, and so there was some 123 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: pretty like explicit overtures of like people. Most famously there 124 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: was this guy like Tom Metzker, who was also like 125 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: in the clan a little bit, and so all these 126 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: worlds sort of overlap. But people like Tom Metsker and 127 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: others like him saying that like, well, it would be 128 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: nice to have some like impressionable eighteen year olds to 129 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: come be Nazis for us, and Tom metsk I'm actually 130 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: is getting ahead of it, like he was in like 131 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: the late eighties. He we see him in are A 132 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: but um or we see him a story. Yeah yeah. 133 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: But um, like ten years before that there was the 134 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: National Front was like a big fascist movement in the 135 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: UK um and they recruited among skinheads and stuff like that. Um. 136 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: The first like big white power skinhead band was called 137 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: Screwdriver and they were just like initially in a political 138 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: skinhead rock band and then started singing about Nazi ship 139 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: and kind of invented this idea of like the white 140 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: power skinhead pretty much. Okay, so now we're in the 141 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: US and there's a bunch of different a political or 142 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: differently political skinhead crews. Yeah. So in there was a 143 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: group of friends skinhead crew in Minneapolis named the Baldies 144 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: and again just like a group of friends, they party, 145 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: that's what they did. But then you know, they started 146 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: seeing other skin heads around town and asking them like, hey, 147 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: what's good you want to like hang out? Where are 148 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: you from? And then all of the like, okay, if 149 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: you're the Baldies, this is their first exposure. They walk 150 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: up to someone and they're like, hey, you'r a skinhead? 151 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: Like cool, what's good you? I mean like, because if 152 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: they're the Baldies, well that that name. Actually, please cut 153 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: this out. I derailed this joke, and I derailed Shannon listeners. 154 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: Margaret tried to cut out this joke. Here's the joke. 155 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: Ian plug that in right here. No, just that the 156 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: fact that their name of the Baldies, how do you 157 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 1: tell them apart from other skinheads? Like that's like being 158 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:10,719 Speaker 1: like where the skinheads and where the suspenders? Okay, please continue? Okay. 159 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: So yeah, but so they're seeing other skin heads around 160 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: town basically, and uh, these skin heads are saying that 161 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: like they're literally Nazis and like that's weird because the 162 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: Baldies and a lot of other skinhead crews like them 163 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: are multiracial, very like explicitly multiracial. That's like part of 164 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: their deal really, And so yeah, the Baldies was started 165 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: by uh, you know a few like working class white kids. 166 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:36,600 Speaker 1: Is one kid who is a jibways, one kid who 167 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: is black. They are multiracial crew. And then they're like 168 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: literally Nazis coming to basically to like their party scene, 169 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: in their punk scene. And so conflict proves and so 170 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: the Baldies are are one example, but in fact, as 171 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 1: they like soon find out, really similar things are happening 172 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: in a lot of different cities. Talk to some folks 173 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: in uh Cincinnati, and similar deal there. There there was 174 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: like a sort of one single skinhead scene, uh, and 175 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: people had all their different politics but um, and then 176 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: this person I spoke to in Cincinnati told me about 177 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: how like it was one specific party where like a 178 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: racist skinhead basically used a racial slur, and so that 179 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: started a fight of people beating up the Nazis. And 180 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,839 Speaker 1: then like from then on there was this conflict. Um Chicago, 181 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: there were like a lot of different crews and they 182 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: sort of had some different politics, but then there was 183 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,079 Speaker 1: one crew uh started by one person in particular who 184 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: were bringing in racist politics. They were one of the 185 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: early racist skinheads actually in the US, starting three And 186 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: so basically what happens is that and at first, all 187 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 1: these different scenes aren't like in touch with each other, 188 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: but they're all kind of going through the same thing 189 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: of like basically what happens is essentially like low level, 190 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: like I don't want to say super low level, like 191 00:10:54,520 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: ship Got very real, but low ish level like gang wars. Basically, yeah, 192 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: the ter fours of people coming to shows. You know, 193 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: Nazis come to a show, and anti racist skinheads want 194 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: to kick them out, don't want them hanging out at 195 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: the show, don't want them able to recruit, and don't 196 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 1: want them around really the way that you just might 197 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 1: not want a nasie to be around you as a 198 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: general principle, and so uh, fights are popping off and 199 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: so sort of over time that just becomes Yeah, what 200 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: starts is basically like rival cruise um trying to push 201 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 1: each other out of like out of these spaces where 202 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: they're hanging out and doing their punk shows and stuff. 203 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: They that sort of coalesces and solidifies. And the way 204 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: that one Baldi put it to me was that like 205 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: where once the Baldies was like a group of friends. 206 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 1: Now we had a purpose, and our purpose was to fight, 207 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: was to fight those Nazis, and so around like you're 208 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 1: seeing a lot of skinheads, anti racist skinheads basically winning 209 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: like these these their turf wars, and it's easy to 210 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: like look back and so again I don't want to 211 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: downplay it, like people went through some uh through some 212 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: really tough ship and like there was a lot of 213 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: violence and a lot of trauma there. That's very real, 214 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: but to give you know, like to look back on it, like, um, 215 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: thirty plus years later, we look back and like pretty much, uh, 216 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: the anti racists end up winning over the course of 217 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: like you know, months or years. Um. That Basically I 218 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: think just Nazis aren't very popular, don't have many friends. 219 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: Maybe they're really big, but maybe they're going up against 220 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: twice as many people who aren't as big as them, 221 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: and over time, really the anti racist skinheads managing to 222 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: kick the ship out of racist skinheads and keep them 223 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: out of their scenes. Basically, well, that's so how far 224 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: that word has gone is that like even those of 225 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: us who like, you know, I'm friends with several anti 226 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: racist skinheads, but it's still really easy to every now 227 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: and then slip up and use skinhead is synonymous for Nazi. 228 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, I think that that speaks that speaks 229 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: to how far how far those things that become synonyms. Yeah, 230 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: and also I think an interesting point of like what 231 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 1: the anti racist skin has we're trying to do that 232 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: they a lot of them, and maybe those who were 233 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: like more sort of it's I don't know, thoughtful about 234 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: these things, spoke about like they didn't want to like 235 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: give up the subculture to Nazis basically, but they didn't 236 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: want um to it stopped being the skinhead, so that 237 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: then you sort of I don't know, seed that ground 238 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 1: to Nazis and you have this entire skinhead that then 239 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: is synonymous with with Nazism in a way that skinhead 240 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: culture is not synonymous with Nazism, even though it does 241 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: have that association. But like, how much worse it would 242 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: be if it was like, actually, on, skinheads are our 243 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: Nazis and there was no sort of totally contest going on, 244 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: especially when that was a larger culture. Like skinhead culture 245 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: is a much smaller percentage of punk now than it 246 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:55,959 Speaker 1: it was then, and then punk seems to be a 247 00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: much smaller percentage of like the overall subcultural may lieu. 248 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:03,199 Speaker 1: So yeah, no, it would have been a huge chunk 249 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 1: to just like give up and be like oh okay, 250 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: well yeah, you can just come freely to the skinhead 251 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,559 Speaker 1: shows and turn everyone into the Nazis. I don't know, 252 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 1: fucking good on them for not letting them do that. 253 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: Mhm yeah exactly. And so over the course of this issue, 254 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: some of the skinheads who were like a bit more political, 255 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: maybe a bit more thoughtful. So politics did range because 256 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: one because not all skinheads are uh Nazis, and two 257 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: just people have different politics. Probably the main sort of 258 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: unifying thing and this is kind of built in the 259 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: skinhead culture, but it is a very like working class outlook, um, 260 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: and that you know, they tend to be working class kids, um, 261 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: and really identify with that and have some real pride 262 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: in that. That's probably the main one like consistent thing. 263 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: But other than that, um. And so just to take 264 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: the Ballies for an example, as one specific crew they had, 265 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: you know, I remember reading one newspaper profile that described 266 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: them as like they lee democratic socialist. You know some 267 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: people who you know, um, some people who are who 268 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: are who seem more sort of liberal, uh, some people 269 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: who are like pretty like patriotic American and like, yeah 270 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: it's cool to like beat up Nazis. Like my granddad 271 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: did or something like that, right, M I'll take them 272 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: better in a Nazi yeah. Um. But you do have 273 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: and and this is a real force towards the development 274 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: of anti resist action. You do have some people who 275 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: are pretty committed leftists. In Cincinnati, you had you know, 276 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: it's it's funny that the the worlds were sort of like 277 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: consistent enough and in touch with each other enough that 278 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: like people can still remember specific names. So I'm thinking 279 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: in terms of like specific people, and we don't need 280 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: to get into that level of detail. But you know, 281 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: people talk about like, oh, this one, you know, this 282 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: one anarchist kid in in Cincinnati, and but he was 283 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: kind of funny. He wore like Red Army Faction patches, 284 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: which was East German group. And then you did have 285 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 1: like communist communists Cincinnati, and then in uh different places, 286 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: and especially in Minneapolis, you had some pretty committed anarchists. 287 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: And so there are a variety of political tendencies going on, 288 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: basically brought together by again that it's like a youth 289 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: culture having a good time in partying and the fact 290 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: that they don't like Nazis. But you have people within 291 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: that and and maybe just sort of the I don't know, 292 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: maybe maybe it was not inherent, but it was just 293 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 1: going to happen with the way that. Um, if you 294 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: end up fighting Nazis for long enough, you start to 295 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: maybe think a little more broadly about racism. Yeah, and like, yeah, 296 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: what what other aspects of you know, what are they 297 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: talking about that I don't like? What where do I 298 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: draw the line between like fascists who are terrible and 299 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: other types of racism? Um, So between that and uh, 300 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: some more political people, you have kind of a more 301 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: concerted push to the left over time, I think, Um, 302 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: in these skinhead crews and also crucially the skinhead crews 303 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: find each other anti racist skin head curves, I should say. 304 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,560 Speaker 1: And so I mentioned that early on they didn't necessarily 305 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 1: all know each other, but by like I say, especially 306 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: like eighty nine by people are really getting to know 307 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: each other basically just again through like the scene. So 308 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: they talk about, you know, maybe you go a couple 309 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: of towns over to see I say, a couple of 310 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: towns where I'm from. Going a couple of towns over 311 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 1: is like you're going from like one town of you know, 312 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: two hundred people to another town to two people. But 313 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: these people are all in the Midwest in cities that 314 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: are not too far apart from each other. You know, 315 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:36,359 Speaker 1: Minneapolis to Chicago or something is like a six hour drive, 316 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: and so maybe a band that you like is coming 317 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: to Chicago but isn't coming to Minneapolis, and so you 318 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: drive down to Chicago. People are reading all the like 319 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:46,439 Speaker 1: same zines and stuff, you know, just people meeting each other, 320 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 1: people traveling around, telephone calls, zines, um, all this certain 321 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: stuff that like basically was how the punk scene pretty 322 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: much ran. Of these like inter personal connections. That same 323 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: thing is letting these people who are uh specifically like 324 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: anti racist and m committed to that find each other, 325 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: get in touch with each other. And so then what 326 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,199 Speaker 1: you have is all these crews coming together and like 327 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 1: officially banning together into something that they called the Syndicate. 328 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: And so the Syndicate before it was a r A yes, 329 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: and though so what a sketchy name? What a good? 330 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: Like We're like, you're clearly up to no good if 331 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 1: you're the Syndicate, I mean, like in a good way 332 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: in this case. But like the Syndicate, I don't know, 333 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: I think it's such a great name. Yeah, I don't 334 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: I don't remember specifically asking about where the name comes from. 335 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: But you know what else has a really cool name 336 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 1: is the concept of potatoes. Yeah, it's a little bit worthy. 337 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: We should workshop that. Yes, but they sponsored our show 338 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: and other sponsors as well. I feel like we don't 339 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 1: need to mess with the wording. I think it just 340 00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: needs a jingle. Oh interesting, okay, Yeah, welcome to the 341 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 1: concept of potatoes. See there it is. We did it. 342 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: Hell yeah, a little a little polyphony, just two different 343 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 1: complete We've done. We've done that, and we are back 344 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 1: and we are learning about the syndicate which sells goods 345 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: and service. No beats up nazis. Yeah. So you asked 346 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: whether at this point people are are A and I 347 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: said yes, and no, Anti Racist Action is a name. 348 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: It was the Minneapolis crew, the Baldies who came up 349 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: with that. They called it AURA for sure, we don't. No, No, 350 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 1: they call it our because because they wanted it to 351 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: be an acronym, and it's not technically an acronym unless 352 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: it can be pronounced as a word. And so A R. 353 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: A was referred to as AURA and as most properly 354 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: understood as are. You should know this. You're the author 355 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 1: a book about them. Um, I'm not telling the truth. 356 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: I try. I try not to kink Shane and so like, 357 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: if if that acronym is what you're into, then that's cool. 358 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: Um uh no more more historically, I don't think I've 359 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 1: ever heard anyone call it AURA. Yeah, it is generally 360 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: a r A. So if you want to sound cool 361 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: and like you're in the know, you say are Okay, 362 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: I got it. Okay, No, you say are. A Minneapolis 363 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 1: crew came up with the name Anti Rasied Action by uh, 364 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: they kind of spread that name around. It was interesting 365 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: how like who did and didn't take the name. Sometimes, 366 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: like a skinhead crew that didn't otherwise have a name 367 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: would just call themselves intarious at Action. Sometimes there were 368 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,040 Speaker 1: um sometimes they were like closely related and over but 369 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: like overlapping of like there was a skinhead crew like 370 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: the Baldies and also a r A. But indeed, the 371 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: whole point of the initial like coming up with the 372 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 1: term anti racist Action was to expand it outside of 373 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,719 Speaker 1: the skinhead culture um, and was to like sort of 374 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: give an opportunity for more people to come in and 375 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: maybe like other people who were in these youth scenes 376 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: and punk scenes stuff like that. Could join and weren't 377 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: going to be in a skinhead crew, but we're in 378 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: anti racist action. So the syndicate was more explicitly skinhead. Yes, 379 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: so I didn't maybe they did all right now that Yeah, 380 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: I don't think anyone ever called it are, but I 381 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 1: would believe if someone called it a skin NiCad at 382 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: some point. Okay, the naming conventions sort of sometimes got confusing. 383 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 1: The you know, we're we're glossing over like a lot 384 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: of you know, any podcast as opposed to like years 385 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: of things actually happening. The way that we tell history 386 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,959 Speaker 1: is by summarizing. So to summarize, uh, they like at 387 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: first they came up with the name Area to like 388 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,439 Speaker 1: try to get it out of the skinhead scene, and 389 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: they were successful at that, but like we still like 390 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: our story very much remains with like skinhead Cruise pretty 391 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: much for now because they just were doing a lot 392 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,000 Speaker 1: of a lot of organizing. They were the ones who 393 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 1: came together into the Syndicate, which yes was its splicitly skinheads, 394 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: not just anti racists in general. And so the syndicate 395 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 1: sort of like really overlapped with air a anti racist action, 396 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: but they were not the same thing. So then Yeah, 397 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: you get kids traveling around sort of in touch with 398 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 1: each other, supporting each other in their respective heights against Nazis, 399 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,959 Speaker 1: although definitely by like the first syndicate meeting is like 400 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: eighty nine, probably by like uh even more than in 401 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 1: previous years of the anti racists really have like been 402 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 1: winning and have really won a lot in the Midwest 403 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: against the racist skinhad crews. And so then in like, 404 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: the syndicate sort of starts to um, I think pretty 405 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 1: naturally like grow apart um is how it was explained 406 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,439 Speaker 1: to me, not some like super dramatic uh you know, 407 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 1: split or skism or anything. Um, just like, yeah, people 408 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: grow apart with their yeah, with different like political tendencies. 409 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: But the ones who are more like explicitly leftist are 410 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: so the syndicate still included, you know, people like anti 411 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: racist US patriots. The ones who are like more explicitly 412 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: leftist kind of are sticking around, sticking in touch with 413 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: each other and bringing a r A into what it 414 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: was initially meant to be even more of bigger than 415 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: just skinheads, of involving all kinds of different youth in 416 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: different uh anti racist struggles, you know, not just fighting Nazis, 417 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: but also like they alway talked about education and direct 418 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 1: action and so you know maybe like holding fundraiser shows 419 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: or putting out zines about issues. I remember I think 420 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,479 Speaker 1: there was a zine about I want to say, like 421 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: the AIDS crisis, um, coming out of Chicago. I want 422 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: to say, I'm sorry there was there was a fundraiser 423 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: for the AIDS crisis. The zine was not, but yeah, 424 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: making things broader and so that then by like the 425 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: let's say, for sure, these folks who were in h 426 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: anti racist action are still going around fighting racists, but 427 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: they're starting to see they're starting to fight a new 428 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 1: kind of racist, which is clan members. Oh yeah, uh 429 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: one thing, Um, I don't. I don't want to spend 430 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: the whole time talking about racists. We want to talk 431 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 1: about the cool people who did cool stuff basically, so 432 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: like you know, the Nazi skinheads were like you know, 433 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: they were very committed racists and like a serious danger 434 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:41,360 Speaker 1: and they did political organizing. Nazi skin Heads did um. 435 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: But at the same time, like I think the sort 436 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: of again like simplest differentiation, the simplest differentiation I would 437 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: do between like Nazis and clan members. On the other hand, 438 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:56,840 Speaker 1: for like are a purposes. Is that I kind of 439 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: think of it as like, um, these Nazis were like 440 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,880 Speaker 1: in youth scenes and they were in the punk scenes. Um, 441 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: and so they were uh they yeah, they were operating 442 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: in essentially, Yeah, a little bit exactly like they're they're 443 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: peers there, they're opposites. But piers um in you know, 444 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: the same cities, in the same scenes, in the same areas. 445 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 1: Whereas clan members, you do get a lot of like 446 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: sort of Um, clans and Nazis are are influencing each 447 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 1: other in this period as like a general note on 448 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,880 Speaker 1: white supremacist history in the US. But clan members are 449 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: you know, they're not coming to like punctions to recruit 450 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: cool goods. Um. They are instead doing much more of 451 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 1: us sort of like what a traditional like liberal person 452 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,120 Speaker 1: might think of as like politics. They're doing a much 453 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: more sort of outward facing their like holding rallies of 454 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: like we're going to go on to such and such city, 455 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: uh and have a a public rally and we're going 456 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: to say that we're the clan and we're going to 457 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: say what we believe in all of our racist nonsense 458 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: and yeah, so just again more public facing rather than 459 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 1: in the youth. See, so the a r A r 460 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: A starts taking them on as well. Yeah, so are 461 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: A by this point um like reasonably well known name. 462 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: Again pretty much through like these youth scenes, Um, people 463 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: who who aren't just skinheads do know about a r 464 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: A UM. And so I think I think one specific 465 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: rally that was mentioned to me is like a big 466 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: starting point was I want to say April of nineteen 467 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: nine could have been, but A believe there was a 468 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: clan rally in Oxford, Ohio, And so people who were 469 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 1: in a r A, including anti racist skinheads, went to 470 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: this rally and just had a just like massively outshood 471 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: the clan um and basically had this anti fascist rally 472 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: of the clan tried to get together and again talk 473 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: about their racist beliefs and like have a march. And 474 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: I remember one anti racist kin had described me that 475 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,159 Speaker 1: like it was along like a railroad track, and so 476 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: there were like stones on railroad tracks, and so it 477 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: was a crowd of like dozens, if not hundreds of 478 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 1: anti racists just started like picking up stones and and 479 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: throwing them at clan members and stuff like that. So 480 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: we we definitely keep the militants. That was in early 481 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,880 Speaker 1: AIRA for sure in this new context. And so Oxford 482 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: was mentioned me as a pivotal one because it was where, 483 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,239 Speaker 1: like so the syndicate, you had a lot of like 484 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: skinhead who knew each other. But this person told me 485 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: as Oxford as a place where a lot of different 486 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: are a people who weren't necessarily skinheads all met each other. 487 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: So there was an ai A group that had started 488 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 1: in Columbus, Ohio by this point, which was not skinheads, 489 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 1: just like in the punk scene. Um, I think there 490 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: were people in Michigan and there was again this like 491 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 1: Cincinnati crew, basically a lot of different people meeting each other. 492 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: And we see again this sort of like intercity mode 493 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: of people networking together and realizing that they have similar 494 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,959 Speaker 1: beliefs that they militantly don't want Nazis to happen. In 495 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: this case, clan members you know, don't want don't don't 496 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: want fascists to happen exactly. And so from there you 497 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 1: start what continues for like pretty much like a good 498 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: ten years. You know, don't worry, don't don't let that secure. 499 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: We're not getting too far ahead of ourselves. But just 500 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 1: to this is the establishment of a pattern that will 501 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: continue of anti racist action. UH members and chapters taking 502 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 1: on clan rallies. The clans model at this point was, 503 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: like I said, to have public facing rallies, but they 504 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: pretty much travel all over very active in again the Midwest, 505 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: going to you know, all these different small towns that 506 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: are maybe like the seat of their like local county 507 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: in some ob secure corner of like Ohio or Indiana 508 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: and have a clan rally and so uh, these anti 509 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: racist people are following them all over the place, just 510 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: trying to do a variety of different things, trying to 511 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,239 Speaker 1: harass the planet at every turn. Basically, so what are 512 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: they doing besides okay, they're picking up the ballast, which 513 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: is the name for the rocks next to the railroad 514 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: tracks for as I understand, big funk off gravel. So 515 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: they're like, you know, throwing rocks at clansman and ship, 516 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: which rules. But like you're saying that, you know they're 517 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: are they They're following them around, they're doing counter organizing, 518 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: like their their street fighting, they're fighting them at punk shows. 519 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: Like what are they what are they getting up to? 520 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: So with the clan rally specifically, so like I just 521 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: said you kept a certain like militancy for sure, and 522 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: you know maybe people were willing to like getting fistfights 523 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: even or to throw rocks or to throw things. But 524 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: I think it is broadening out at this point of 525 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: you know, it was not just all again this this 526 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: person was a skinhead in Nantariy's skinhead crew. But time 527 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: to continue organizing with are A for a very long time. 528 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: The way that he put it was that a buy around. 529 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: Like the way that he put it, I think was 530 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: that like some sort of as he as he learns 531 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: more politically, like he's learning that like the most militant 532 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: thing you can do isn't like punch someone. It's bring 533 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: like people out so that they just like just the 534 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: day the demonstration is like so much not about them, 535 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: for example, and so yeah, it's just bringing out counter protesters. 536 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: And you know, counter protesters might come from all over. 537 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 1: They weren't all necessarily are A. It might be like 538 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: anti racist liberals. It might be like a church group 539 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: or something showing up. It might be students, um but 540 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: a lot of different people coming out and sort of 541 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: this like ecosystem of people counter protesting fascists in order 542 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: to UM I think a few different things. One sort 543 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: of make a public show and statement that like racism 544 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: was not welcome. Uh, And to a lot of it 545 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: was like very sort of like literal and logistical that 546 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: just like if you know, the crowd is like shouting 547 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: so loud, then maybe the you know, person with a 548 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: megaphone speaking for the clan just like literally can't even 549 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: be heard. Or maybe the journalists are there and they 550 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: would be taking photos of the clan, but instead you 551 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: have like a thousand people over here protesting the clan. 552 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: So maybe the news story then becomes, you know, an 553 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: anti racist protests, an anti racist counter protests as opposed 554 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: to the clan speaking right. Does that make sense? So 555 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: that's what they're doing specifically about the clan is that 556 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: they're mostly doing this counter organizing. Is that what you're presented, 557 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: what you're saying, yes, with the clan specifically, Um, for sure, 558 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: it's definitely a counter organizing model. That was a lot 559 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: of words to say. Yes. Well, what I think that 560 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 1: people should do is they should take everything that's advertised 561 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: on this show and throw it at Nazis, unless it's 562 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: the Gold advertiser, in which case you should probably not 563 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: buy it. Anyway, but if you do, you shouldn't throw 564 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: up the Nazis. I don't understand. It's like really heavy though. Yeah, 565 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 1: but I feel like if but if you don't succeed 566 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: at the ultimate gold yeah, and then they get the 567 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 1: gold and the yeah yeah, which is like you could 568 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: throw a potato and you know, it's like it sucks 569 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: that the Nazi gets a potato out of it, but 570 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: like it feels like you're still you know that potato 571 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: made a brave sacrifice. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um uh So 572 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: that's that's my recommendation. So if you do, you have 573 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: any any recommendations the concept of potato. So the first 574 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: time I've ever sung on air, I'm so sorry to 575 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 1: everyone listening. It is really bad. I'll leave that to 576 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: Margaret next time. No, no, no, If you want Sophie 577 00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: to sing every ad break, you should just tweet hashtag 578 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: I've to leave and Sophie, here's some ads. And we 579 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,040 Speaker 1: are back and we are talking about various things you 580 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: can throw at Nazis, including counter organizing. Instead of just 581 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: approaching them violently, you can throw pamphlets at them. And 582 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: if the Nazis don't get the pamphlets, hopefully other people do. Okay, boom, okay, 583 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: Pacifism is I don't know. No, I don't know, all right, 584 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: so okay, okay, please continue. But yeah, so basically I 585 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: don't want to give the our dear listener like sort 586 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: of temporal whiplash. But basically, like I said, like that 587 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: one clan rally in Oxford, Ohio was sort of one 588 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: uh that was pointed to me as a beginning, and 589 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: from here on out it's sort of a gradual process 590 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 1: of growth of more and more clan rallies and are 591 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: a people protesting them more and more often, and sort 592 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 1: of a rhythm develops before you know it, Like a 593 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: couple of years in by about people are again like 594 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: in communication with each other. Um. Maybe people are traveling 595 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: to clan rallies, and so they're kind of traveling all 596 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,320 Speaker 1: over and maybe one persons from Columbus and one persons 597 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 1: from Cincinnati, and one person is from Detroit, but they're 598 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: going to like the same clan rallies and they're recognizing 599 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: each other. Over time, different towns are recognizing that they're 600 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: all doing similar work and they want to get together 601 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: and form a more formal body um or just coordinate 602 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: more formally um work that they're kind of already doing that. 603 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,080 Speaker 1: They're already going all over the Midwest counter protesting against clans. 604 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,880 Speaker 1: But by ninety three there are like, for example, some 605 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: meetings held in like I think it's like Lima, Ohio. 606 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: It's like a totally random place just because it was 607 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: like a reasonable midway point between Detroit and Cincinnati, like 608 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: right outside of Columbus. People from like different cities coming 609 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: together in order to say, like, hey, we're working towards 610 00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: similar things and we want to support each other, and 611 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: so how can we do that? So those conversations blossom, 612 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:23,480 Speaker 1: and people working together doing awesome work decide that they're 613 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: going to have a conference and they're going to call 614 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 1: it the Midwest Anti Fascist Conference. But don't let that 615 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: confuse Math, because uh yes, at the MATH they form 616 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: a math net, the Midwest Anti Fascist Network. But Math 617 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: and I have still math Net is how I always, 618 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,280 Speaker 1: which is a little more dignified, right, I have still 619 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: never figured out a good way to do this very 620 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 1: much with dignity. Don't let that confuse you, dear listener. 621 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,799 Speaker 1: A year later, it's going to be renamed to air 622 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,240 Speaker 1: a Net. So it technically wasunder a different name at first, 623 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: but pretty much this is the formation of Anti Racist 624 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:09,439 Speaker 1: Actions National Network previously. If you just spell it out, 625 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,759 Speaker 1: it's are in it again. You can see I wish 626 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: you could see Shannon space that they could. You need 627 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:22,280 Speaker 1: to make these suggestions. I think I don't think anyone 628 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:23,840 Speaker 1: wakes up in the morning and it's like I'm going 629 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: to gate keep today, you know, like people don't identify 630 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 1: as like, yeah, I'm a gatekeeper, but I'm just attempted. 631 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 1: All right, we'll get you like a big halberd so 632 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:40,560 Speaker 1: you can block the gate properly. Alright, fine, Are at 633 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:47,359 Speaker 1: a bunch of squares square net? Yes, but they come 634 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: together and they hold this conference and it is the 635 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: foundation of what UM was technically at the time called 636 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: the Midwest Anti Fascist Network but soon re names too 637 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 1: the Anti Racist Action Network. Organizers who have met each 638 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 1: other through like already doing this work through again maybe 639 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: like zines, maybe little you know, d I Y political 640 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: newspapers that people do stuff like that, who all get 641 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: together and say, like we want to coordinate our work 642 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: counter protesting uh different fascists for example, Uh, and very importantly, 643 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,800 Speaker 1: we want to build toward being proactive and not just reactive, 644 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 1: not just maybe not just like a negative politics of 645 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: trying to shut down fascists. But let's um yeah again, 646 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: just try to build something that can be proactive and 647 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: they can kind of go on the offensive. And they 648 00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:41,440 Speaker 1: have that conference in October. They have some key points 649 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: of unity that are really great and that define are 650 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 1: A pretty much define the work that are A was 651 00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: already doing. Let's hear him. I love a good point 652 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,839 Speaker 1: to un today, And with your permission, Margaret, I think 653 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: because they made they made them like short and sweet 654 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 1: enough and like actually real enough and not just weird 655 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,319 Speaker 1: jargon that honestly it is. I might just straight up 656 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 1: read the points of unity here, right, all right, all right, 657 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,919 Speaker 1: let's do it. They give you a real good sense 658 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,799 Speaker 1: of what antiret affection was. Number One, we go where 659 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,839 Speaker 1: they go. Hey, that's the name of the book. Uh 660 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: that wasn't in the Points of Unity, But I'm just 661 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,040 Speaker 1: saying we go where they go. Whenever fascists are organizing 662 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,360 Speaker 1: or active in public, were there. We don't believe in 663 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 1: ignoring them or staying away from them. Never let the 664 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: Nazis have the streets. Number Two, don't rely on the 665 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 1: cops or the courts to do our work. This doesn't 666 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:30,399 Speaker 1: mean we never go to court, but we must rely 667 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,760 Speaker 1: on ourselves to protect ourselves and stop the fascists. Number 668 00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 1: three non sectarian defense of other anti fascists in are 669 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,319 Speaker 1: anat we have lots of groups and individuals. We don't 670 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 1: agree about everything, and we have a right to differ openly. 671 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,680 Speaker 1: But in this movement, an attack on one is an 672 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,919 Speaker 1: attack on us all we stand behind each other. Number four. 673 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,359 Speaker 1: Arena intends to do the hard work necessary to build 674 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: a broad, strong movement against racism, sexism, anti semitism, homophobia, 675 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,280 Speaker 1: discrimination against the disabled, the oldest, the youngest, and weakest 676 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 1: of our people. We intend to win. Hell yeah, uh, 677 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: that's fucking that rules. It does. Um. The wording you know, 678 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: minor tweaks to wording at different points. Um, so if 679 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,960 Speaker 1: you read a different version of those, that's also correct. 680 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 1: But um, those were the points of unity, and that 681 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,400 Speaker 1: is anti racist action. Having evolved from this thing that 682 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: grew out of anti racist skinheads kicking nazi skin heads 683 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 1: out of their scenes, has continued to grow and um 684 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: sort of coalesced into this. Now it would remain decentralized, 685 00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,360 Speaker 1: It would remain you know, not a super tight formation, 686 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 1: but a formalized, like existing network of anti racist activists 687 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:45,400 Speaker 1: and anti fascist activists doing awesome work at this conference 688 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: in all right, Well, yeah, when we come back on Wednesday, 689 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: we will learn what they did once they were formally 690 00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 1: math neet and then are in it after that. Yes, 691 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:03,799 Speaker 1: we can think of them as a r A net 692 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: but yes, and both of you have books. Shall we 693 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,799 Speaker 1: plug the books at this point? Shannon, thank you so much. 694 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 1: You may have heard of this book before because we've 695 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: mentioned it a couple of times. We go where they go. 696 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: The Story of Anti Racist Action is coming soon from 697 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: PM Press in the US. Our Canadian publisher, I believe 698 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,600 Speaker 1: is the University of Regina Press u RP. You can 699 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: order it like worldwide from Working Class History. You know. 700 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: If it should come out in March. If you're listening 701 00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:35,239 Speaker 1: to this before, then you can pre order it and 702 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,560 Speaker 1: get it for even cheaper. But it's really good fucking book, 703 00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,720 Speaker 1: to be honest. You've yeah gotten the impression that maybe 704 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,839 Speaker 1: this was like forty five minute explanation of six years 705 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,640 Speaker 1: of history. You're right, and the book goes into more 706 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,320 Speaker 1: detail about it and has awesome stuff. So thank you. Sophie, 707 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 1: and Margaret for having me and for the opportunity to 708 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,040 Speaker 1: plug it um. I think it's really important history. It 709 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:04,120 Speaker 1: has a lot to teach us um for fighting fascism 710 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 1: and racism. So we go where they go, a story 711 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,040 Speaker 1: of anti racist action. Yeah, and Sophie, you have a 712 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:14,440 Speaker 1: new podcast I do. It's called Internet Hate Machine hosted 713 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,480 Speaker 1: by bridget Todd. We examine why the Internet is so 714 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,480 Speaker 1: horrible and why we're so sensitized to it and what 715 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 1: we can do to make it a better place for everyone. 716 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 1: Check that out. Internet Hate Machine, hosted by bridget Todd. Margaret, 717 00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 1: you have a book. I have a book called We 718 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: Won't Be Here Tomorrow. That's about I don't know, like 719 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: people feeding men to mermaids, and gender stuff and crime 720 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:45,000 Speaker 1: and science fiction and giant weird creatures with too many eyes, 721 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:47,960 Speaker 1: all that stuff. The book of short stories. You can 722 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,160 Speaker 1: get it from a k Press is out already, so 723 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:55,800 Speaker 1: you can't get a pre order discount because that already happened. 724 00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 1: It's over. But you can get a regular order of it, 725 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,239 Speaker 1: which is cooler in some ways because then when you 726 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,319 Speaker 1: order it, the book comes. Yeah, what if someone is 727 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,520 Speaker 1: listening to this in the past, then I would like 728 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,600 Speaker 1: to have you on as a guest to discuss the 729 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,319 Speaker 1: means by which you have accomplished this. Please let me 730 00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:21,719 Speaker 1: know you can DM me. Well, if you're smart enough 731 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:23,359 Speaker 1: to figure that out, you can probably figure out how 732 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: to get past my clothes, Twitter, d M S and 733 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:35,279 Speaker 1: we will see you all on Wednesday. Cool People Who 734 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,840 Speaker 1: Did Cool Stuff is a production of cool Zone Media. 735 00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: Or more podcasts and cool Zone Media, visit our website 736 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on 737 00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 1: the I Heard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 738 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:47,640 Speaker 1: get your podcasts.