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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

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Speaker 1: that brings you the secret histories and little known stories

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Speaker 1: behind your favorite music, movies, TV shows, and more. We

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Speaker 1: are your deep sea divers of details, your unsinkable Molly

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Speaker 1: Brown's minutia, your French girls of facts, hitting you with

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Speaker 1: Titanic based trivia like a sweaty hand on a fogged

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Speaker 1: up window of a sweaty vintage automobile. My name is

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Speaker 1: Jordan run Tog and I'm Alex Sago, and today we

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Speaker 1: are doing what is quite possibly my favorite episode we've

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Speaker 1: ever done, even more than my beloved Beatles Too Parter.

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Speaker 1: I've been writing it for the last six weeks, but

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Speaker 1: in reality, I've been researching it for the last quarter

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Speaker 1: century for longer. Yes, I'm talking about James Cameron's Titanic,

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Speaker 1: which recently turned twenty five years old. Hard to believe.

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Speaker 1: It came out on December, just a few days before

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Speaker 1: my tenth birthday, which made the season all the more

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Speaker 1: rush for me. This is a movie that defies hyperbole,

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Speaker 1: and frankly, any attempt at an introduction feels superfluous. Because

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Speaker 1: it's Titanic. The popularity of the movie speaks for itself.

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Speaker 1: It's arguably the most transcendent, inescapable, and impressive cinematic experience

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Speaker 1: of the second half of the twentieth century. This episode,

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Speaker 1: I'm pleased to announce is a t M I first,

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Speaker 1: it's our first three parter. I was trying to make

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Speaker 1: it a two part in honor of the original VHS

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Speaker 1: release in the nineties, but there was just too much stuff. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: I think the double VHS set played a role in

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Speaker 1: the film success because it could be two separate movies

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Speaker 1: depending on your mood. If you watch the first tape,

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Speaker 1: it was a fish out of Water rom com ending

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Speaker 1: in car Sex, and the second tape, if you started there,

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Speaker 1: it was an action adventure popcorn flick. And this is

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Speaker 1: just one of the many insightful theories that I'll share

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Speaker 1: about Titanic throughout this episode. High Go, We've talked a

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Speaker 1: bit before this, and I'm very aware that this movie

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean the same to you that it does to me.

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Speaker 1: But what are your thoughts on Titanic. It's a big

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Speaker 1: boat from the makers of large Plane, Large Boat. H Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, what do you say about Titanic? Man it's

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Speaker 1: like it was the biggest movie of all time until

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Speaker 1: another James Cameron movie became the biggest movie of all time.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I have a huge soft spot for James

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Speaker 1: Cameron because he made one of my favorite movies of

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Speaker 1: all time Terminator to Colon, Judgment Day, that's right, and

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Speaker 1: Aliens and Aliens. Yeah, he's so funny man. Because he's

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Speaker 1: such a I think all of the extra Cameron the

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Speaker 1: Killer activities tend to dwarf him as being just like

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Speaker 1: an actual auteur, but he is responsible for some of

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Speaker 1: the greatest movies of all time. And uh yeah, I

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Speaker 1: I remember this movie primarily as like a fourth grader

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Speaker 1: who was really into Star Wars and was just really

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Speaker 1: upset that it was going to beat Star Wars is

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Speaker 1: not at all time, But I was only felt about

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Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings, actually, and I was way too

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Speaker 1: old to be angry about stuff like that when Lord

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Speaker 1: of the Rings. That was in high school. When the

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Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings beat Titanic for whatever record, it beat,

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Speaker 1: just seen your fists, like Peter Jackson. Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's it's incredible. It's I don't really understand

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Speaker 1: how it did that. I mean obviously it's got all

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Speaker 1: these antecedents in like poside adventure and all this stuff

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Speaker 1: that you love, and but it's yeah, yeah, but it's

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Speaker 1: like I don't know who would have predicted this, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's coming through the like mid nineties like maximalist action

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Speaker 1: and transportation movies. But also like, are you like getting

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Speaker 1: this to like Speed Yes, okay, Speed, Speed two, Cruise Control,

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Speaker 1: the four action plane movies we talked about when we

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Speaker 1: did Air Force one. You know, we had Dante's Peak,

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Speaker 1: we had uh, there's another volcano disaster one. So it

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Speaker 1: does seem like there was like a ground swell towards

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Speaker 1: like big disaster movies I guess coming off of Jurassic

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Speaker 1: Park as well, Like that's true, which I think was

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Speaker 1: the highest grossing movie of all time. For yeah, all

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Speaker 1: that Stolberg in you know Golly Whiz g willakers like

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Speaker 1: spectacle filmmaking, But like who would have picked that it

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Speaker 1: was Titanic, Like like it could have just it feels

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Speaker 1: like you could have just as easily been like Hindenburg,

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Speaker 1: James Cameron's Hindenburg or like some other big disaster like

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Speaker 1: the Molasses. Like I'm like one of those great molasses floods, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like which is the Boston thing of at least. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it just it's just funny to me that it

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Speaker 1: ended up being Titanic, you know, I must just have

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Speaker 1: a blind spot towards it and like where it occupied

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Speaker 1: in like U S. History as far as like big

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Speaker 1: nation gripping tragedy. You know, well, it hits a lot

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Speaker 1: of stuff. I mean, the juxtaposition between rich and the poor,

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Speaker 1: gender roles with the women and children first and the

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Speaker 1: men kind of stoically staying back, and the sor there's

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Speaker 1: nobility of the Gilded Age and in the max sense

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Speaker 1: of that juxtaposed with the arrogance and you know that

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Speaker 1: the folly, you know, you think of that that Jim

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Speaker 1: Morrison line the future is uncertain, in the end is

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Speaker 1: always near. Uh yes, I just compared Jim Morrison to

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Speaker 1: The Titanic. Just a bumpy start for this episode. But

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Speaker 1: I do think that the Spectacle played a huge role

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Speaker 1: in this too. I mean it was the most expensive

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Speaker 1: movie ever made at that point two million dollars. Uh

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Speaker 1: that's about a million dollars per minute of screen time,

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Speaker 1: which is just ridiculous. I mean, the cost to construct

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Speaker 1: the Titanic back in nineteen ten and nineteen twelve was

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Speaker 1: about seven point five million, which injusted for inflation, is

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Speaker 1: about a hundred and twenty to a hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: million dollars, which means that the movie Titanic costs more

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Speaker 1: to make than the actual Titanic, which I enjoy, and

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Speaker 1: so much more in actual human suffering. Yeah. Pretty, I mean, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk a lot about was one James Cameron. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but I mean this movie. It made a huge impact

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Speaker 1: on me, as it did on so many. I'd say

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Speaker 1: that the Titanic and the Beatles are my twin obsessions,

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Speaker 1: which is strange because I've noticed that there's a great

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Speaker 1: deal of overlap between classic rock super fans and Titanic enthusiasts.

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Speaker 1: I know, I don't understand why, but just anecdotally on Twitter,

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Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of overlap between the two. Maybe

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Speaker 1: it's the fact that Liverpool's the home base for both

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Speaker 1: the Beatles and it was the Titanic's homeport, So I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I'd love some some study on this. But

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Speaker 1: like jazz fans and Serial Killer aficionados, I didn't know

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Speaker 1: that I need jazz and like heavy no on making

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Speaker 1: that up. Okay, that's just your just just New Year,

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Speaker 1: same high. But you know, unlike a lot of my

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Speaker 1: millennial peers, I was actually obsessed with the Titanic long

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Speaker 1: before the movie came out. And I say this not

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Speaker 1: for any kind of like, you know, I was into

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Speaker 1: this before it was cool, cred because it was never cool.

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Speaker 1: But I just want to give you an idea of

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Speaker 1: how excited I was for this movie. And I heard

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Speaker 1: news reports about the production of Titanic for years prior

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Speaker 1: to the release, and so this was just a huge

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Speaker 1: one for me. I got when I rented the National

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Speaker 1: Geographic special about the Discovery of the Titanic from my

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Speaker 1: local library when I was in kindergarten. No idea what

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Speaker 1: compelled me to watch it, but soon I knew it

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Speaker 1: so well that I was able to write the narration

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Speaker 1: from memory. And I would really freak out my teachers,

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Speaker 1: who thought I was actually capable of coming up with

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Speaker 1: lines like her name was a synonym for tragedy on

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Speaker 1: my own at age six. Um, but I actually freaked

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Speaker 1: out my teacher. Is quite a bit with my Titanic interest,

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Speaker 1: because somewhere at my house there are stacks of like

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Speaker 1: crayon drawings that I did of the ship going down,

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Speaker 1: with like people jumping off the back um like in

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Speaker 1: my child hand. It's kind of disturbing. I dressed up

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Speaker 1: as Captain Smith for Halloween when I was in first grade,

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Speaker 1: which again, yes, it was before the movie came out,

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Speaker 1: so no one had any idea who the hell I was.

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Speaker 1: So I actually felt really validated and happy when the

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Speaker 1: Titanic movie came out because suddenly my obsession was cool

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Speaker 1: and I could share what I thought was so interesting

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Speaker 1: about it. It's like I'm doing today. In addition to

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Speaker 1: the production, it's about this movie will compare and contrast

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Speaker 1: how elements of the film stacked up with the reality

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Speaker 1: of that night back in April. Well, this is certainly

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Speaker 1: could be the longest episode we've done, so in the

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Speaker 1: interest of preserving time, I'm not even gonna give any teasers.

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, it's my great pleasure to present episode

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Speaker 1: one of our three part epic detailing everything you didn't

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Speaker 1: know about the making of James Cameron's Titanic. Take her

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Speaker 1: to see Mr Murday, Let's stretch her legs. Do you

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Speaker 1: ever watch Riot tracks? Oh? With the Mistry Science Theater three.

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Speaker 1: They're kind of hit or miss, but the Titanic one

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Speaker 1: is so good because they just do that big slow

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Speaker 1: pan up to the captain and then he just think

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Speaker 1: one of them just goes, I'm going to sink this bitch.

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Speaker 1: Spoilers Well, the story of the Titanic film really begins

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Speaker 1: with the discovery of the wreck of the Titanic in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty five, after it was missing for seventy three years.

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Speaker 1: It was discovered by an expedition led by Dr Robert

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Speaker 1: Ballard of the Woods Whole Oceanographic Institute. And the interesting

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Speaker 1: thing here is that he wasn't actually supposed to be

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Speaker 1: looking for the Titanic in the first place. It came

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Speaker 1: out a few years ago that Ballard and his team

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Speaker 1: were actually on a top secret mission for the U. S. Navy.

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Speaker 1: Back in the sixties, the Navy lost two nuclear subs

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Speaker 1: under mysterious circumstances, the Thresher and the Scorpion, and Dr

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Speaker 1: Ballard was sent to try and locate the Rex to

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Speaker 1: try and determine if the Soviets had gotten there first,

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Speaker 1: which would have been bad because it was the Cold

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Speaker 1: War and they would have been able to steal a

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Speaker 1: bunch of our military secrets and all that stuff. So

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Speaker 1: the whole searching for the Titanic thing was just a

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Speaker 1: cover story for what they were doing in the North Atlantic.

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Speaker 1: But Dr Ballard found the missing subs and completed his

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Speaker 1: mission so quickly that he actually had twelve days left

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Speaker 1: over to search for the Titanic. And what the hell

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Speaker 1: are here was like turning out your couch cushions and

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Speaker 1: your already clean in Like I was, well, see what

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Speaker 1: we can turn up? So what we got in here?

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Speaker 1: And he actually found the titans by using many of

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Speaker 1: the techniques he'd holand while searching for these missing subs.

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Speaker 1: There's the National Geographic documentary that I mentioned earlier about

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Speaker 1: the discovery of the Titanic from seven that features footage

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Speaker 1: of the very moment Dr Ballard and his team locate

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Speaker 1: the wreck and Ballard let's out a triumphant well I'll

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Speaker 1: be damn, which she's hilarious. Uh. And you'll remember this

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Speaker 1: was a recurring line in the Titanic film when Bill

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Speaker 1: Paxxton's sea explorer character brock Lovett cracks the safe and

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Speaker 1: finds the drawing of Rose with the heart of the

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Speaker 1: Ocean diamond. Uh. And that's sees what he says, I'll

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Speaker 1: be damn, and then Old Rose sees the drawing on

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Speaker 1: TV says the same thing, I'll be damn, And that's

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Speaker 1: when she gets in contact with Bill Paxson's character Brock

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Speaker 1: and kicks off the plot of the movie. So James

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Speaker 1: Cameron watched this seven National Geographic documentary and it made

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Speaker 1: a big impression on him. As it did Meet, he

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Speaker 1: made a note at the time, do story with bookend

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Speaker 1: of present day wreckage scene intercut with memory of a survivor,

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Speaker 1: needs a mystery or driving plot element. Thus the seed

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Speaker 1: of the Titanic movie were sown. Cameron was extremely interested

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Speaker 1: in undersea exploration, and he actually wrote his nineteen eight

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Speaker 1: nine film The Abyss after seeing another National Geographic documentary

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Speaker 1: about remote operated vehicles similar to the ones that Dr

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Speaker 1: Ballad used to find the Titanic. So it was interested

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Speaker 1: in all this stuff was already well established. But the

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Speaker 1: thing that was so tantalizing about the Titanic plotline was

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Speaker 1: film called Titanica that featured fantastic, high quality for the

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Speaker 1: time footage of the wreck. I remember going to see

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Speaker 1: this in Boston at the Museum of Science as a boy.

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Speaker 1: For James Cameron, this Imax documentary sparked the idea that

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Speaker 1: he could go down two and a half miles in

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Speaker 1: incorporate that footage into his own movie, which had never

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Speaker 1: wreck as a set, and the challenge truly appealed to him.

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Speaker 1: So in a sense, the movie Titanic was a giant

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Speaker 1: excuse for James Cameron to visit the wreck of the

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Speaker 1: Titanic on Hollywood's dime, which I appreciate, and he was

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Speaker 1: expedition to the wreck of the Titanic. God love him.

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Speaker 1: And that is when we segue into the James Cameron

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Speaker 1: corner of the James Cameron Deck, the Cameron Deck, the

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Speaker 1: camera deck. Um. Yeah, Cameron is so fascinating to me. Man.

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Speaker 1: He is one of the most autocratic, dictatorial directors of

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Speaker 1: all time. He has his many horror stories about his

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Speaker 1: directing style, as he does people who were like fanatically

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Speaker 1: dedicated to him. You know, he shoots, he writes, produces edits,

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Speaker 1: There's multiple anecdotes from Titanic and other films where he's

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Speaker 1: just like roams around the set and we'll just like

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Speaker 1: go in on someone and adjust their makeup. Actor Danny Nucci,

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Speaker 1: who played Fabrizio and Titanic, said that camera would get

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Speaker 1: in there and just like even adjust the shape of

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Speaker 1: blood spatter or a scar according to his vision. Um.

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Speaker 1: Where they were chopping up pieces of ice for the

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Speaker 1: iceberg scene, camera got in there with a pick axe

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Speaker 1: to sculpture the ice according to how he wanted it,

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Speaker 1: just the ice on the deck, like the little pieces

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Speaker 1: that you like couldn't even really see. We're not even

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Speaker 1: talking about the iceberg. It's we're talking abouts of stuff

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Speaker 1: on the deck. There's something really pathological there. But God

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Speaker 1: love him, he gets results. Um Stephen Lang who is

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Speaker 1: the most notably the villain in Avatar, But it's been

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Speaker 1: a couple of Cameron things, he says. Uh. He told

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Speaker 1: the Ringer recently, the two onset jobs that Jim Cameron

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Speaker 1: respects the most are acting and catering, because those are

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Speaker 1: the two jobs he knows he can't do better than

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Speaker 1: everybody else. There was a two thousand nine New Yorker

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Speaker 1: profile by Dana Goodyear called James Cameron Man of Extremes, uh,

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Speaker 1: and there's some great anecdotes in it which we will

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Speaker 1: share now. At fourteen, James Cameron saw Stanley Kubrick's two

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Speaker 1: thousand one Space Odyssey, and at that moment he knew

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Speaker 1: he wanted to make films, which bodes well for for

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Speaker 1: someone being an extremely exacting research excess actor abusing R.

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Speaker 1: He started experimenting with his own models and sort of

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Speaker 1: you know, d I Y kid grade special effects um.

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Speaker 1: But Kubrick was kind of the top of the mountain

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Speaker 1: for him as far as that stuff goes on. He

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Speaker 1: called him his hero after he made the one of

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Speaker 1: his sort of rare misfires true Lies, the spy spoof

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Speaker 1: with Arnold, which is do you have the anecdote int

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Speaker 1: here about how he yelled at Arnold in Washington? D

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Speaker 1: c Oh, yeah, I don't have it in here. No. No,

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Speaker 1: There was like a downtime during the set. It was

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Speaker 1: in twenty minutes or something. They were going to change it.

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Speaker 1: They were going to change a light bulb or something,

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Speaker 1: and they were in a car Tom Arnold, Arnold Schwarzenegger,

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Speaker 1: and Arnold Schwartzenegger, because he loves being American, Um was like,

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Speaker 1: I'll just take you guys on a brief loop of

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Speaker 1: this part of d C and point out some of

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Speaker 1: the stuff. And he got back at James Cameron like

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Speaker 1: smashed like punches. The hood of the car was like,

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Speaker 1: where the hell were you? And Tom Arnold was like,

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Speaker 1: this thing that was supposed to take five minutes took

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Speaker 1: fifteen because it was James. And James blew up at

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Speaker 1: Arnold and he was like, are you gonna let him

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Speaker 1: talk to you like that? And Arnold Schwartzenger was like, yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't like I screwed up. Yeah. He took it

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Speaker 1: very well. Um yeah, and uh. He after he finished

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Speaker 1: that movie, he called up kuber who is just, you know,

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Speaker 1: at that point, kind of into his Howard Hughes era

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Speaker 1: of just living in his baronial estate, finishing eyes wide shut.

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Speaker 1: I guess, uh. And according to that New Yorker profile,

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Speaker 1: they spent a day in the basement of Kubrick's house

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Speaker 1: in the English countryside watching true Lies Kubrick's flatbed editing station.

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Speaker 1: Cameron went over the shots. Well, I think the point

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Speaker 1: is that Cameron invited himself over to his hero's house.

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Speaker 1: I think it's really the main takeaway here. And it

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Speaker 1: proceeded to show him his own movie. Here's how I

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Speaker 1: made Arnold shoot this missile out of a jet through

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Speaker 1: an office building into a helicopter. Um. Then in the

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Speaker 1: mid nineties, oh boy, James Cameron and women. Dude, what

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Speaker 1: we talked about when we talk about James Cameron and women. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In the nineties, he was in a long term relationship

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Speaker 1: with his terminator, Starry Lynda Hamilton's. She wanted to get married.

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Speaker 1: Cameron dragged his feet. According to Linda, he used to say,

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Speaker 1: anybody can be a husband or a father. There are

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Speaker 1: only five people in the world who can do what

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Speaker 1: I do, and I'm going for that. And again, this

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Speaker 1: is funny, it's it's uh. I just found this interview

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Speaker 1: where he basically talks about how the Second Avatar is

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Speaker 1: just like He's like, well, now this is my family

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Speaker 1: movie because I have five kids now, so this is

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Speaker 1: my like movie about what it means to be a dad. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I made the comparison to Close Encounters of the

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Speaker 1: Third Kind, which Steven Spielberg famously said he would never

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Speaker 1: have shot the same way if he had been a dad,

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Speaker 1: the movie would have been different. He was like, I

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Speaker 1: never would have had a dad abandoning his kids. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's funny. You see James Cameron's progression from like

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Speaker 1: I do not want children there or the enemy of art,

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Speaker 1: to like, now I am a dad and that is

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Speaker 1: this genesis of all art because it's all about me.

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Speaker 1: James Cameron apparently has a weird, conflicted relationship with his dad.

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Speaker 1: I just found this possibly apocryphal story that when Aliens

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Speaker 1: blew up and became this huge film and really anointed

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Speaker 1: him as this enormous director, someone asked his dad if

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Speaker 1: he was like proud of him or what he thought

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Speaker 1: of his son success, and his dad said he's had

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Speaker 1: enough praise. Um. Lynda Hamilton's got pregnant and moved out

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Speaker 1: when Cameron's first child, Josephine, was nine months old. The

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Speaker 1: pair ultimately split up following the release of Titanic, and

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Speaker 1: James Cameron then got together with actress Susie Emmis, who

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Speaker 1: appeared in Titanic as Old Rose's granddaughter, which we will

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Speaker 1: cover later, and example three before he started production on

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Speaker 1: the movie The Abyss, one of the most ambitious movies

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Speaker 1: ever considering he was filmed mostly underwater. Uh film. Ed

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Speaker 1: Harris still has taken a vow of silence over will

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Speaker 1: not discuss the making of Does that traumatic for him?

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Speaker 1: I think someone almost died. There's like if you kind

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Speaker 1: of read between the lines on this, they talk about

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Speaker 1: like I think and Harrison's and other people talk about

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Speaker 1: like driving home from the shooting and just like spoted

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Speaker 1: like having a post traumatic stress, just like a bursting

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Speaker 1: into tears in their car. That sounds like every day

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Speaker 1: on the Titanic set. Yeah. Yeah, And uh so with

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Speaker 1: that as the preamble. When he wanted to make The Abyss,

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Speaker 1: Cameron went to the president of Fox and said, I

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Speaker 1: want you to know one thing. Once we embark on

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Speaker 1: this adventure and I start to make this movie, the

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Speaker 1: only way you'll be able to stop me is to

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Speaker 1: kill me. And the Fox president later said, you looked

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Speaker 1: into those eyes and you knew he meant it. He

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Speaker 1: just he talks like a superhero, like a cartoon, like

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Speaker 1: a comic book character. I think that's in fact, like

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Speaker 1: a line in one of the Marvel movies about Captain

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Speaker 1: America's like, it's like an action hero cliche to say,

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Speaker 1: like you're gonna have to kill me. Oh yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about. Yes, oh god, um yeah. So

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Speaker 1: Terminator was his first real big success. I believe he

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Speaker 1: was living out of his truck when he made that movie.

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Speaker 1: He had just done, I think right prior to that

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Speaker 1: was Piranha, Piranha too, because he was uh he was

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Speaker 1: Corman affiliated, right, Roger Corman affiliated. Cheap uh um. And

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Speaker 1: then so he got the Alien sequel Aliens hit a

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Speaker 1: reputation as an action director whose work had slightly more

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Speaker 1: depth than the average, and he made so much damn money,

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Speaker 1: which is really the James Cameron story. High risk, high

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Speaker 1: reward baby Terminator to the first film to cost over

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Speaker 1: a hundred million dollars, also the highest grossing movie that year,

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Speaker 1: Titanic the first film to exceed two hundred million dollars

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Speaker 1: in budget, and you know, God love him. He sets

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Speaker 1: an ambitious schedule for himself and then expects everyone else

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Speaker 1: to follow it start to finish. Terminator two from writing

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Speaker 1: the script to the premier thirteen months yeah, dude. You

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Speaker 1: take thirteen months to write a script, you take thirteen

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Speaker 1: months to edit a film. You take thirteen months to

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Speaker 1: like do sound mixing. Good lord. He shot that movie

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Speaker 1: six days a week, using the seventh day to edit.

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Speaker 1: On the seventh day Cameron edited. Crew members made shirts

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Speaker 1: that read you can't scare me. I work for James Cameron.

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Speaker 1: So in the spring of James Cameron went to Century

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Speaker 1: Fox to pitch a movie that he described as Romeo

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Speaker 1: and Juliet on a boat's. Yeah, that's the elevator pitch. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there was no script at the time, and give him

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Speaker 1: keep that in mind. Studio Brass where initially understandably lukewarm

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Speaker 1: on the idea. According to Cameron, he said, they were like, okay,

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Speaker 1: a three hour romantic epic. Is there a little bit

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Speaker 1: of Terminator in that? Any Harrier Jets, shootouts, car chases?

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Speaker 1: I said, no, no, no, no, no, it's not like that. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Titanic was the first film he had made that did

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Speaker 1: not include or mentioned nuclear weapons, which is such a

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Speaker 1: funny little statistic to me. Love is the real nuke.

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Speaker 1: The rule nuclear weapon was the friends we made along

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Speaker 1: the way. Um, he asked them for a hundred million

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Speaker 1: to make the movie more than Terminator two, which would

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Speaker 1: just mentioned was the most expensive film ever made at

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Speaker 1: that time. They freaked and gave him the green light

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Speaker 1: on it, with a caveat that one should be done

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Speaker 1: for a dred ten mill and to be ready to

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Speaker 1: release in July, where we punching Ron Howard as the narrator,

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Speaker 1: saying he would fail on both of those. Studio really

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Speaker 1: wanted to keep Cameron happy because of again the money.

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Speaker 1: Apparently they wanted him to do Spider Man and Planet

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Speaker 1: of the Apes, both of which went to sort of

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Speaker 1: his peers in big budget fantasy sci fi land, Sam

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Speaker 1: Ramy for Spiderman and Tim Burton for Planet of the Apes.

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Speaker 1: Fox also gave him two million dollars to fund his

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Speaker 1: his little deep sea uh work vacation, um, which is

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Speaker 1: all he really wanted. Ah. I think that quote in

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Speaker 1: the office from Creed where he's like, uh, well, if

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Speaker 1: I can't go scuba diving, what's this whole thing been for? Um?

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Speaker 1: His justification was, sure, it's more expensive than just using

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Speaker 1: the models, but it would be great publicity for the movie.

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Speaker 1: So Titanic Production metaphorically and literally set sail under the

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Speaker 1: decoy title Planet Ice, joining the pantheon of great production

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Speaker 1: shooting title decoy names such as Group Hug for the

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Speaker 1: Avengers and The First Star Trek Reboot Corporate Headquarters, as

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Speaker 1: studios give their high profile productions fake names and discourage

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Speaker 1: news leaks. Basically, it's important to remember that Fox signed

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Speaker 1: off on this hundred plus million dollar project with no

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Speaker 1: script at all, just a rough storyline, and this decision

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Speaker 1: raised more than a few eyebrows at Fox. It was

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Speaker 1: obvious from the start that Cameron wanted to make a

426
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 1: capital E epic. He talked a lot during the production

427
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: about wanting to make a movie on the scale of

428
00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:35,439
Speaker 1: Doctor Javago, the historical romance drama. For Cameron, it was

429
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,159
Speaker 1: easy to create a spectacle, but he needed to craft

430
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: the human story to create what he called an emotional

431
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 1: doorway for people to appreciate the true tragedy of what

432
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,439
Speaker 1: happened on Titanic. In addition to disaster on a grand scale,

433
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,679
Speaker 1: he needed intimate moments. He later said, the fate of

434
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,680
Speaker 1: our Titanic movie lay in our ability to steer her

435
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 1: properly past the icebergs of bombast and create a living

436
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 1: heart for the film. Out of gestures, lances, tentative smiles,

437
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 1: halting awkward sentences, and the vocabulary of nascent love. That is,

438
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 1: I believe part of the intro to the paperback coffee

439
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,720
Speaker 1: table book James Cameron's Titanic, which everyone I knew had

440
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 1: as a kid um, and he wrote extensively in this

441
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 1: intro about humanizing the tragedy of the Titanic. He said,

442
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,560
Speaker 1: I wanted an audience to cry for Titanic, which means

443
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 1: to cry for the people on the ship, which really

444
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 1: means to cry for any lost soul in their hour

445
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 1: of untimely death. But the deaths of innocence is too

446
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 1: abstract for our hearts to grasp, although the mind can

447
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: form the number easily to fully experience the tragedy of Titanic,

448
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 1: to be able to comprehend it in human terms, it

449
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 1: seemed necessary to create an emotional lightning rod for the

450
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 1: audience by giving them two main characters they care about,

451
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 1: and then taking those characters into hell. The story of

452
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: Titanic and her fate seemed a magnificent canvas on which

453
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 1: to paint a love story, a canvas offering the full

454
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: spectral range of human emotion. The greatest loves can only

455
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 1: be measured against the greatest of adversities and the greatest sacrifices.

456
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 1: Thus defined Titanic and all her terrible majesty produces this

457
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 1: as does no other historical event. So, like you were

458
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 1: talking about the top of the episode, that's kind of

459
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: why the Titanic story has resonated with people for hundred

460
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: and ten years now, but not with you. I just

461
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: can't believe he writes like that. No, I just can't

462
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: like that. Is that's a purple prose as we call

463
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 1: it in the industry. So with this, uh, you know,

464
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 1: crafting the human element as his m O, James Cameron

465
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: conjured this fairytale life story of two people who fall

466
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: in love across class boundaries, Rose de Witt Bukatur and

467
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 1: Jack Dawson, and James Cameron has been pretty open about

468
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 1: the fact that Jack is an idealized version of himself.

469
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: Like Cameron, he comes from a town called Chippewa. Cameron

470
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: was from Chipwa, Ontario, and Jack Dawson was of the

471
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,719
Speaker 1: Chipwa falls Dawson's in Wisconsin. And like Jack, James Cameron

472
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 1: loved to sketch Camerontrold rolling Stone in nine there's a

473
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 1: lot of me and Jack, definitely before clarifying, actually, I

474
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: shouldn't say that Jack is the guy I wish I

475
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: could have been. I wished I had his courage and

476
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 1: openness and his descriptions of Jack in the screenplay are

477
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 1: adorably and somewhat hilariously fawning. As Jack Stargaze is on

478
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: a bench before meeting Rose, he's described as thinking, quote

479
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: artist thoughts, interior artist thoughts, and his sketch book isn't

480
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: any old sketch book, but quote a celebration of human condition.

481
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm sningering. This script made two

482
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: billion dollars. Yeah, I mean, what are we doing to

483
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 1: insects or the podcast? Just like it's just so so funny.

484
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: It's so funny. I mean, it gives us all. Let

485
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: this give us all hope. I'm imagining these original shooting

486
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,640
Speaker 1: script Its just every time it says Jack, it says

487
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: parent in brackets. It's just actually me, James Cameron picture

488
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: little hand drawed hearts all around like Jack comma handsomely.

489
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 1: And finally, as Rose begins to fall in love with Jack,

490
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,400
Speaker 1: she does so because, according to the description in the script,

491
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: he's quote so open and real, not unlike anyone she's

492
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: ever known, like me, James Cameron, the way women fall

493
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 1: in love with me, handsomely God love him. And I've

494
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: also seen reports that, in addition to basic and slightly

495
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 1: on himself, Jack was based on, or at least named after,

496
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 1: the rugged, outdoorsy author Jack London, who wrote White Fang

497
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: and Call of the Wild. The character Rose also had

498
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: a somewhat personal connection to James Cameron. She was named

499
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 1: after his grandmother and also has some of the personality

500
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: of his mother. He later said, Rose is afraid of

501
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 1: being trapped and not being fulfilled. My mother was an artist,

502
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: but she was chained to being a mother of five kids,

503
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 1: so she didn't really to be an artist. Yikes, jim uh.

504
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: The character of Rose was also inspired by a real

505
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 1: life woman by the name of Beatrice Wood, and Cameron

506
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: was reading her autobiography during the development of the script.

507
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: She came from a wealthy American family, but she was

508
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: more interested in avant garde abstract art, just like Rose.

509
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: She claimed she never married the men she loved and

510
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: never loved the men she married, which is a tremendous

511
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: line and somewhat mirroring the star Cross Lovers plotline and Titanic.

512
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: Beatrice Wood fell in love with an Indian scientist when

513
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 1: she was younger, only to be separated by cultural circumstance.

514
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 1: Beatrice was specifically an influence on the character of Old

515
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,360
Speaker 1: Rose because they were both these vibrant personalities, and Beatrice

516
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: was nearly a hundred when Titanic was released before she

517
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 1: died in but I think James Cameron went out of

518
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: his way to meet with her on several occasions, which

519
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: is nice. Now we've got to talk about the dialogue

520
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 1: and Titanic, which, if the passages we just read to

521
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: you are any indication, it's famously bad, so bad that

522
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: it actually inspired a contrarian click baby piece on e

523
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: W called James Cameron's Dialogue and Titanic is actually great.

524
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 1: Despite this headline, it features this tremendous admission from writer

525
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: James Hibberd the mockery of the dialogue is partly due

526
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: to Titanic lines being pretty on the nose, like so

527
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 1: on the nose they punch you in the face. He

528
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: then goes on the quote. Several reviews of the film

529
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: specifically target the dialogue slates. David Elstein wrote Titanic carry

530
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 1: some stinkers that wouldn't make the final draft of the

531
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: Days of Our Live script. Ouch Kenneth Turn of The

532
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: l A Times had this to say, What really brings

533
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: on the tears is writer director Cameron's insistence that writing

534
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: this kind of movie is within his abilities. It is

535
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: even close and salon Stephanie Zatrak was even more blunt,

536
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: criticizing quote loads of blockhead dialogue. But James Hibbard defends

537
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: the dial dog and his piece on e W sitting

538
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 1: its efficiency. He says, quote within seconds of meeting Jack Dawson,

539
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: Rose de Whippy Cator and Cal Hockley, who's Roses jerky fiance,

540
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: you know precisely who these characters are and what they want.

541
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: Vagabond Jack immediately reveals his poverty, lack of education, and

542
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: gung ho spirit. You know, when you've got nothing, you've

543
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: got nothing to lose, which I've never been able to

544
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: determine whether or not that's a conscious rip on Bob

545
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: Dylan's like a rolling stone. Um. At another point in

546
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: the movie, Jack says, I'm just a tumble weed blowing

547
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: in the wind. So I don't know. Maybe James Cameron

548
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: is just a big Bob Dylan fan, because that's two

549
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: Dylan rips and one script, which is kind of the limit.

550
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: Um back to James Hberd's piece, Rose quickly shows her

551
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 1: desperation and initial tone deaf privilege in a voiceover. It

552
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: was the ship of dreams to everyone else, but to me,

553
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: it was a slave ship taking me back to America.

554
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: In chance, I don't think that was necessarily meant to

555
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: show that she was tone deaf. I think that was

556
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: just a line in. Yeah, they probably through slavery references

557
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: a little more cavalierly. My favorite James Cameron dialogue of

558
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: all time is in Terminator two. It's uh, when Arnold

559
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: Schwarzenegger strokes little Eddie Eddie Furlong's face and says, I

560
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: know now why you cry. So it's something I can

561
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: never do. This sounds like such a threat delivered in

562
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 1: that in that Austrian Stentorian barytone. You know, Bob Dylan

563
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: apparently repaid the favor. There's the fourteen minutes song on

564
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: Tempest that came out in which is uh, has a

565
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,479
Speaker 1: bunch of references to the Titanic. Do you even know this?

566
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: Remember this? It's sort of sounds familiar. It even includes

567
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: the line Leo took his sketch book. He was often

568
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: so inclined he closed his eyes and painted the scenery

569
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: in his mind. I didn't know it actually was about

570
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: the movie. I thought it was about the actual historical incident. Wow,

571
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: I believe it is. But it uh, you know, touches

572
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: on on Leo as it does so as those most things.

573
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: Oh boy, where do we get to Leo? Yes? But

574
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: what Titanic lact and subtle dialogue. It made up for

575
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: an insane obsessive research, which I deeply respect. This is

576
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 1: where I feel very close to James Cameron. He spent

577
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: six months pouring over every detail of the ship, which

578
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like a lot to me. But I'll give

579
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: it to him. I under said in the intro to

580
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: the Titanic Production book quote, I wanted to be able

581
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,959
Speaker 1: to say to an audience without the slightest pang of guilt,

582
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: this is real. This is what happened, exactly like this.

583
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: If you went back on a time machine and stood

584
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 1: on the deck, this is what you would have seen. Swoon.

585
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: I love that there are some historical points, however, that

586
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: were fudged or excised for dramatic purposes, as we'll get

587
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: into later. For example, there's an entire day of the

588
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: ship's voyage that's just missing in the movie and wasn't included,

589
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: which you know makes sense. You know, you can't have

590
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: you can't have it all. Although I don't know, considering

591
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: that they fell that deeply in love in just two days,

592
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: maybe they could have used the third day just to

593
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: make that a little more believable. It's like that James

594
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 1: Cameron is like, we're gonna obsessively detail every inch of

595
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: this damn ship. And then so I was like, oh,

596
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 1: they fall in love in two days. He's like, yeah,

597
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: that's that's what how it happens, right, based on my research,

598
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: that's she's going through like carpet swats, and like, yeah,

599
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,959
Speaker 1: as you meditate on that, we'll be right back with

600
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: more too much information after these messages. Overall, though, the

601
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: accuracy in Titanic is pretty stunning. We'll get to the

602
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: recreation of the rooms and the props later, but even

603
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: little moments occurring in the background were true to life.

604
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: Everything from the hymn that they sing in the scene

605
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: when Jack gets thrown off the church service engineers warming

606
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: their soup on a steam pipe that was something they

607
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 1: used to do. And passengers getting reprimanded by crew for

608
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,320
Speaker 1: damaging White Star Line property as the ship was sinking.

609
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,720
Speaker 1: That really happens. And also the man leading prayers on

610
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: the stern of the ship just before it went down.

611
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: These were all effectively true incidents. One of the most

612
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: poignant little moments occurred in the scene where Jack sneaks

613
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 1: onto the first class boat deck to see Rose and

614
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 1: he walks past a little boy playing with his toy top.

615
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: That's a recreation of a famous photo taken of a

616
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: boy named Douglas Spedon who was a first class passenger

617
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 1: who made it off the ship, only to die three

618
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: years later and one of the first automobile accidents in

619
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 1: the state of Maine. I think he was like nine

620
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: years old. Uh. This gets to an interesting point about

621
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: photographs of Titanic. There are actually very few depicting ship

622
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: life because the Titanic sank on her might and voyage.

623
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: The only reason there are any at all is because

624
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: the Titanic actually made two stops before heading out onto

625
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: the North Atlantic, where she sank Cherburg, France, on the

626
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: same day she set sail in April tenth, and then

627
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: the following day in Ireland, and there were a lucky

628
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: seven passengers who spent the night on Titanic before disembarking

629
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: the next day. Think it was also a crew member

630
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: who jumped ship, which I would love to interview that guy,

631
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: like what compelled him to leave? Um. Of these seven

632
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: passengers who left the ship early, it was a priest

633
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 1: named Father Francis Brown, who took some of the only

634
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: photos we have of life on board the Titanic when

635
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: she was at sea, one of which being this photo

636
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: of Douglas sped and playing with his top. And there

637
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 1: are also some more photos from a group called the

638
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 1: O'Dell family, who put them in their family scrapbook. Um,

639
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,720
Speaker 1: that was really kind of it. Obviously there are probably

640
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: many others on board took photographs, but has thought that

641
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: all these cameras went down with the ship and their

642
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: film was destroyed by seawater. It's possible that somebody took

643
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: their small camera off the ship in their you know, coat,

644
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: and developed the pictures and they're in some family trunk

645
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: and an attic somewhere in England. But and you will

646
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: find that I will find them. James Cameron. Uh. As

647
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:50,919
Speaker 1: far as we know though, those are really the only

648
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: two groups of photos that showed life on board the

649
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: ship on the final voyage. So these photos from Father

650
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: Brown and the Odell's are extremely valuable because again they're

651
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: the only as we have of the ship on our

652
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: one and only voyage. Bizarrely, the priest in Finnegan's Wake

653
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: by James Joyce is based on Father Frances Brown, this

654
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: Titanic photographer, because James Joyce knew him. Yeah, that's weird. Uh.

655
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,160
Speaker 1: Father Brown's story is interesting. He actually befriended an American

656
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: couple on the one night that he was on board

657
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 1: the Titanic, and they offered to pay his way to

658
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: New York and back, simply because they like spending time

659
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: with him and they didn't want him to get off

660
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: in Ireland. But when Father Brown sent the telegram that

661
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: was Superior asking permission to go on this journey, the

662
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: Superior sent the telegram back, apparently in all caps, reading

663
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: get off that ship. How's that for divine intervention? Good Lord?

664
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: I know. Yeah. It's worth noting that the interior of

665
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: the Titanic is not very well documented. In fact, there's

666
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: only thirty nine known photos of her interiors. Most of

667
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: the pictures and history books that purportedly show the famous

668
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: accommodations like the grand staircase and the lounge and the

669
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,919
Speaker 1: smoking room are all photos for almost identical twin sister ship,

670
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 1: the Olympic, and because they were built to be pretty

671
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,760
Speaker 1: much the same the public rooms, at least the ship's

672
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 1: owners White Star Line didn't feel the need the photograph

673
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 1: rooms that the public had seen before on the other ship,

674
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 1: so instead they only photographed areas that were different, you know,

675
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: special first class parlor suites, the Cafe pre g M,

676
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 1: which is this fake French sidewalk cafe built off one

677
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: of the decks, and a redesigned Turkish bath which is

678
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: like an early spa. So this makes James Cameron's research

679
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 1: all the more impressive, considering he had precious little to

680
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 1: go on when it came to researching how the Titanic

681
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: actually appeared inside, and he also went out so the

682
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:40,280
Speaker 1: real Titanic to find out hey for effort. Yeah, Cameron

683
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: took a very hands on approach to research by going

684
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 1: down and visiting the wreck itself for close to a

685
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,320
Speaker 1: month in the summer of um but he was already

686
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 1: an old hat at being underwater mag his point after

687
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 1: having done that, having done the abyss um, this footage

688
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 1: would The footage that he shot during this period would

689
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: serve as part of the book ends of the movie

690
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 1: that are set in the present day. The story treatment

691
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 1: for the movie opens with the evocative bit of cameron

692
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: esque doggerel. In the blackness, we hear the lonely ping

693
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: of a bottom sonar. Then two faint lights appear close together,

694
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: growing brighter. They each resolve into clusters of lights which

695
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 1: are soon revealed to be too deep submersibles falling towards us.

696
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 1: We are somewhere in the ocean deep looking up at

697
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: two subs free falling like express elevators. Soon they are fireflies,

698
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: then stars, then gone that. I'd love to read James

699
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 1: Cameron's like book list, Is it like? If it's all

700
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: like he reads like pulp novels. The Titanic was two

701
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: and a half miles down and the pressure from the

702
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: water exerts six thousand pounds per square inch. In other words,

703
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 1: if there's a crack in your sub at that depth,

704
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: you are squished instantly, which is why the subs have

705
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: these portholes made of six inch seven inch plexiglass um

706
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: God do decompression stuff like freaks me out so much.

707
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: It's why the bends and like all these was other

708
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 1: Have you seen Deep Star six not? That's like a

709
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: budget I think it's Corman. Actually, uh, it's a budget

710
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 1: like underwater horror movie from around the same time as

711
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: The Abyss. And there's a character who like blows up

712
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 1: because he tries to go up to the surface too quickly.

713
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: We're not supposed to go down there. That's not that role.

714
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: That is not where we're supposed to be. I'm scared

715
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 1: of fish. Oh yeah, the fish. That's Lovecraft's whole thing

716
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: is Yeah, there's weird fish, and that's scary. I'll do fish.

717
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: I grew up on a lake. When I was a

718
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,359
Speaker 1: little kid by next to your neighbors would take dead

719
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 1: fish on rakes and fling them out, So yeah, I

720
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 1: really I'm mostly afraid of dead fish. Actually, I think

721
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: that's why I like sushi now. I absorbed their power.

722
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: One of my one of the drummers in my band,

723
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: used to have tarantillas and he would throw their shells

724
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: at me after they molted, pretending that the the Oh yeah,

725
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 1: I would like, yeah, weirdly, I'm okay with spiders, though

726
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: I'm kind of wish it with you on fish. Though

727
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: at the time there were only five submarines in the

728
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 1: planet capable of diving to the depths of the Titanic,

729
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 1: James Cameron hired two of them, the Mirror one and

730
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: mir two. As the name suggests, they were Russian. It

731
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 1: was mere mean isn't like peace or some like thing

732
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:28,240
Speaker 1: that Russians don't believe in? Ah like sobriety or warmth, brevity?

733
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: It does mean, it means peace and worlds. Yeah. The

734
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 1: majority of the crew on the research vessel, the Keldysh,

735
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: which is the same crew that he used to shoot

736
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: the Bill Paxton scenes for the movie. The Russian scientific

737
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: director and his crew were not exactly thrilled by having

738
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,280
Speaker 1: their research vessel commandeered to make uh, you know, decade

739
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,320
Speaker 1: in Western cinema, but the Soviet Union had just collapsed

740
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 1: and money was tight, and so American dollars were useful.

741
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,919
Speaker 1: J Cameron paid them in levies in Soviet Russia. Movie

742
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 1: makes You Too Easy? Too Easy? Would understand yako the

743
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 1: yakov shnof references or else? What's this all for? What's it?

744
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: All for there had been a Titanic Imax movie shot already,

745
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: but then had been filmed with cameras inside a submarine

746
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: viewing the wreck through the porthole like a sane person.

747
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: James Cameron said, pitch on that, and he wanted to Uh,

748
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: he wanted to be outside of the sub I want

749
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: to be outside of it. I want to be in

750
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 1: the water. God, what an insane person he is against

751
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: six thousand pounds per square and sparing down on you.

752
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: I'm shocked. When he made the Terminator, he was like,

753
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 1: so we're gonna build a death robot, guys. Uh, it's cheaper, numbers,

754
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 1: It cheaper. I'm going to code a sentient piece of

755
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:08,439
Speaker 1: AI that will murder the world myself. Um. That later

756
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: became Twitter. Uh. Obviously, no cameras existed that could withstand

757
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: that pressure, so he developed a new one encased in titanium. Uh. Unfortunately,

758
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 1: for reasons beyond all of us, it only held twelve

759
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: minutes of film at a time and couldn't be reloaded

760
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 1: mid dive, so they had to rehearse every single move

761
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 1: that it was going to be making, like the lunar landing,

762
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: in order to capture the footage. It was not easy

763
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 1: having two subs flies close to one another as possible

764
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: in coordination with lighting braces all around a submersed, treacherous

765
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:50,720
Speaker 1: metal wreck covered in steel cables in the freezing pitch

766
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 1: black of the ocean depths because light stops penetrating at

767
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: a certain distance. With a crew that does not speak

768
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 1: much English, each dive cost between twenty five five and

769
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 1: forty grand and they had twelve minutes of footage from it. Uh.

770
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 1: The Russian pilots knew how to drive their subs, but

771
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 1: not necessarily what made a good shot, So they had

772
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,600
Speaker 1: to practice with miniature cameras on a model of the

773
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: wreck obscured with smoke to simulate the ocean depth. Oh

774
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: to be a fly on the wall of those rehearsals.

775
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 1: It was like a little lipsick camera. They were shooting

776
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: this movie in one of the most extreme environments ever attempted.

777
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 1: I mean it's I don't know what was the analog

778
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: shooting in like Death Valley in high summer. I would

779
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 1: say that's even easier, Yeah, because there's oxygen and not

780
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 1: six thousand pounds per square inch bearing down on you

781
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: and light. Yeah. Yeah, James Karen went on twelve of

782
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: these dives to the wrecked during the production of Titanic,

783
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: and each one was like a twelve to sixteen hour

784
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 1: round trip, which means, by your calculations, it means he

785
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 1: spent more time on the wreck of the Titanic shooting

786
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: the movie than the actual Titanic passengers did. In he

787
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 1: spent more time on this wreck than the actual passengers,

788
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: and more money than it costs to actually make the boat.

789
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, the crui space in the subs was seven

790
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: feet and a sphere, and you were stuck there for

791
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: more than two hours just making it down to the

792
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 1: bottom of the ocean. As he evocatively wrote in his

793
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: characteristic pros in the Titanic Production Boat, after twelve trips

794
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 1: into the abyssal depths of the North Atlantic, I can

795
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: honestly tell you that getting there is not half the fun.

796
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: Imagine two Russian scientists and one Hollywood filmmaker crammed into

797
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 1: a space smaller than your stereotypical clown car, free falling

798
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,320
Speaker 1: for hours through two and a half miles of blackness,

799
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: with the weight of the ocean tightening around you. I'm

800
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 1: getting a panic attack just reading this. Tightening around the

801
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: freezing metal cruise sphere. Even worse, there was plenty of

802
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: time to reflect on the fact that we were completely

803
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: dependent on the successful functioning of countless technological systems in

804
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: order to reach and photog raft the ultimate symbol of

805
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 1: technological failure, Titanic. On one of these trips, they all

806
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,879
Speaker 1: almost died when a heavy underwater current which they call

807
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 1: a bottom storm, not not touching that one, blew them

808
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: off course, draining their battery. When it came time to

809
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: return to the surface, they were almost out of power

810
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: and nearly froze to death. He had another kind of

811
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: bottom storm when he got off the sub. It paid off, though,

812
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: because that's where you get so many of the amazing

813
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:30,800
Speaker 1: shots in the beginning of the movie of the wreck

814
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:32,839
Speaker 1: coming out of the bottom of the ocean, lit by

815
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 1: these incredible rigs to appear even more grand and ghostly.

816
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 1: On the last five they decided to pilot their remote

817
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: operated vehicle inside the wreck. This was basically a camera

818
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,240
Speaker 1: with thrusters attached to the sub by a leash, hence

819
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 1: his nickname of Snoop Dogg. He was meant to just

820
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: be a prop, but he was actually fully functional and

821
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,320
Speaker 1: small enough to get inside the wreck where the submarines

822
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,600
Speaker 1: were too big to go, and that is how they

823
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,479
Speaker 1: saw rooms that hadn't been seen by human eyes since

824
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: the ship sank in nineteen Well that's so cool, right,

825
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:04,919
Speaker 1: like just like the concept of that is insane. Yeah,

826
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:09,439
Speaker 1: it's it's the mind fairly reels. Uh. It had long

827
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: been thought that wood boring mollusks had eaten all the

828
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:18,760
Speaker 1: people mollusks uh had eating all of these ornate fittings.

829
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 1: But they found hand carved oak columns and wood paneling,

830
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 1: including white paint in the reception area a k a.

831
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: The room where cal tries to shoot Jack and Rose

832
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,320
Speaker 1: as the ship sinks. The doors in the entrance vestibule

833
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,280
Speaker 1: that old Rose seas and the research festival monitor are real.

834
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 1: They made their way into the millionaire suite on B

835
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: deck that had been booked by JP Morgan before he

836
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: canceled his ticket. Inside are the remains of furniture, walastconsins,

837
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 1: and the fireplace. The room was recreated for Calendarrose, a

838
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: sitting room where famous drawing like one of your French

839
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,879
Speaker 1: girls seeing curs. But in the end James Cameron did

840
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 1: not get quite as much usable footage of the wreck

841
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,120
Speaker 1: as he wanted due to the poor conditions the aforementioned

842
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: bottom storm. As a result, it's some of the wreck

843
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: footage in the movie was filmed on the extremely elaborate

844
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 1: one to twenty scale model on a sound stage where

845
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: some of the wreck interiors were recreated as well. Uh.

846
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,360
Speaker 1: Some people felt that James Cameron misled the public into

847
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,359
Speaker 1: just how much authentic Titanic footage actually made its way

848
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: into the movie. But those people are dicks. Yeah, the

849
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: man took his and many other lives into his hands

850
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: to get what he did, and you people are like

851
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: needs more. His total Titanic dive count was thirty three

852
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,800
Speaker 1: U sep. Yeah, he went. He made some documentaries, Ghosts

853
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:39,839
Speaker 1: of the Abyss, and I think he made a few

854
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 1: national geographic ones like Return to Titanic or something years later,

855
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 1: and he's some thirty three dives, so the Titanic, which

856
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 1: is he's insane. Yeah, that's on Titanic. There was actually

857
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 1: this article that was written by Paula Paris specifically about

858
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 1: these dives, and it's called Lunch on the Deck of

859
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: the Titanic because apparently James Cameron insisted that during each

860
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 1: dive they parked their subs on the Titanic's boat deck

861
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,399
Speaker 1: and eat lunch. He told her, we'd have some tea

862
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: and stare out the portholes and think about all the

863
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:14,200
Speaker 1: events that had happened here. I had already written the

864
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:16,439
Speaker 1: treatment for the movie, so I already knew who did

865
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,719
Speaker 1: what to who, and what had happened where, and what

866
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: dramas had played out exactly where we were sitting. I'm sorry,

867
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 1: something about eating while on the wreck of the Titanic

868
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 1: just freaks me out to my core. There's an interview

869
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 1: with one of the bottlemakers who worked on the wreck model.

870
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 1: He says that Cameron came into the workshop one day,

871
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,760
Speaker 1: looked at the model they were building on, walked over

872
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 1: and ripped off a piece of railing on the wreck,

873
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 1: and one of the builders said, what are you doing.

874
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 1: That's that's in the picture we're building this from. And

875
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 1: James Cameron, a little too casually said it's not there anymore.

876
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 1: I knocked it off. These dives all went down in

877
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:59,280
Speaker 1: the summer of and a year later, in August, Cameron

878
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: returned to the Atlantic on the research fashion the Keldish

879
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: with the subs to film the movie's modern day framing

880
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 1: sequences with Bill Paxton and Old Rose, who's played by

881
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,280
Speaker 1: Gloria Stewart. In short, they basically just filmed fake versions

882
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: of what James Cameron had done the previous summer, same boat,

883
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: same subs, much of the same cruise, starring as themselves,

884
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 1: including the sub pilot. But this was tricky because in

885
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 1: addition to the American versus Russian cultural differences, there were

886
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 1: now the scientists versus Hollywood filmmaker cultural differences. The researchers

887
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: were used to launching and recovering subs once maybe twice

888
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: a day. Now they were doing it twenty to thirty

889
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: times to get the shots that the Cameron wanted. It

890
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: got tense. This brings us to one of my favorite

891
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: parts of this movie, Bill Past and any movie movie

892
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 1: he got Paxton fine, you know, finding out Paxton's in

893
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: your movie is like finding twenty bucks in your pocket.

894
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 1: I totally forgot that he was in this until I

895
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: re watched it recently. There's this great piece at paced

896
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: by this writer. I like, who's on the He's a

897
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 1: host of one of my favorite podcast, the New Flesh

898
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 1: Horror Movies podcast writer named Jesse Hasson. Jurny talk about

899
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 1: Bill Paxxton being sort of the ultimate James Cameron analog

900
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 1: in this film because of what you got at earlier

901
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:08,839
Speaker 1: about like, you know, he starts out the movie being

902
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: jaded and thinking of it is a payday, and he's

903
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 1: really just kind of obsessed with the technical specs of

904
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: everything and sort of the very boots on the ground approach,

905
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 1: and then by the end of it, he's been totally

906
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 1: taken over by the human story and the the emotional

907
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 1: elements of it. And you know Jesse, right, so he's like,

908
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 1: this is the Cameron analog, you know, someone who became

909
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:29,399
Speaker 1: obsessed with technical details of this but ultimately still wanted

910
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 1: to create something that had all this human emotion to it.

911
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: That's very true. Also, watching the movie recently, I noticed

912
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: that there was a lot of what I took through

913
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: romantic chemistry between Bill Paxson's character and Rose's granddaughter played

914
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 1: by Susie Amos. I later learned that there was a

915
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: whole subplot of a budding romance between Bill Paxson's character

916
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: and the Susie Amos character. H James Cameron later married

917
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 1: Susie Amos. Oh, So yeah, ultimate James Cameron analog are

918
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 1: absolutely right. Bill Paxton, as we said earlier, he's the

919
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: treasure hunter A brock love it. That's a terrible character name.

920
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: It really is. Some of these names are pretty bad, man.

921
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 1: I mean that's they're like not quite soap character, but close. Uh.

922
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 1: He's in the midst of his search for the diamond

923
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 1: known as the Heart of the Ocean. Paxton himself didn't

924
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 1: dive on Titanic for the shoot, but when James Cameron

925
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 1: embarked on an expedition to obtain more detailed images of

926
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,840
Speaker 1: the wreck first two thousand three documentary Ghosts of the Abyss,

927
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: he invited Paxixton along for the ride, which means that

928
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 1: Bill Paxton has been on Titanic and also saw JFK

929
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: in Texas on the day he was assassinated in nine three.

930
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 1: So Bill Paxton is basically Forrest Gump, and he was

931
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:43,439
Speaker 1: in Apollo thirteen with Tom Hanks, who was for Est Cump.

932
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 1: Good lord, I mean, I need like a beautiful mind

933
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: style graph of Paxton towards a unified theory of Paxton,

934
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:52,799
Speaker 1: Paxton and Cameron. As you mentioned earlier ago way back,

935
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 1: one of his earliest roles was a minor one in

936
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:58,280
Speaker 1: The Terminator. Uh. He also appeared as the cowardly private

937
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,319
Speaker 1: Hudson in Aliens and also in True Lies. So that's

938
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 1: that's a pretty full, uh almost cover all for your

939
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 1: James Cameron Bingo. Um. His character is basically a modern

940
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:10,960
Speaker 1: day pirate in Titanic, and he's never been able to

941
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 1: connect with the human side of the disaster at all.

942
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 1: Like you said, always interested in is the treasure. In

943
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 1: the beginning of the movie, they haul up the safe

944
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 1: from Rose and Cal's room. You know, it's paid a boys,

945
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 1: and then they open it on camera very recklessly for

946
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: something that's been on the bottom of the ocean for

947
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 1: nearly a hundred years. I just like chainsaw it open,

948
00:51:29,080 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: if I recall, which hurt the conservator in me. And

949
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,040
Speaker 1: they opened up with great ceremonially, only to find that

950
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:39,280
Speaker 1: the diamond isn't there. One of the few glaring impossibilities

951
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: in this movie, and there are only a few, is

952
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,759
Speaker 1: that they're actually strict laws against taking items from inside

953
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: the wreck, which is essentially protected as a grave. Uh.

954
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 1: The only artifacts that have been brought to the surface

955
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:52,919
Speaker 1: are from the debris field outside of the wreck, which

956
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 1: is basically all the stuff that's spilled out of the

957
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 1: ship when it broken to on the surface. Uh As

958
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 1: an interesting aside. Cameron has talked about seeing a perfectly

959
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:04,800
Speaker 1: square safe size object on his sonar during every dive,

960
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 1: but he never had time to investigate it. So uh So,

961
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 1: when I opened the safe in the movie and there's

962
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 1: nothing in it, Broc's colleague the her Suit, Louis Bodine, says,

963
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: you know, Boss, the same thing happened to Horaldo and

964
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: his career never recovered. They're talking about TV journalist Horaldo Rivera,

965
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 1: a friend of John Lennon's Weirdly who hosted a live

966
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 1: two hours special in nine six called The Mystery of

967
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 1: al Capone's Vaults. Reopened a large vault that was supposed

968
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,919
Speaker 1: to contain great treasures or secrets, or maybe even dead

969
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 1: bodies belonging to the famous gangster. Thirty million people tuned in.

970
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 1: It was the biggest audience for a syndicated TV special

971
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 1: ever at the time, but when they opened the vault

972
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,919
Speaker 1: live on air, it was basically empty. The only things

973
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 1: they found inside were dirt and several empty bottles, including

974
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,879
Speaker 1: one that Rivera clanmed was for moonshine bathtub gin and

975
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 1: after a few minutes he spent trying to make it happen.

976
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:02,240
Speaker 1: He's just poking around. It's it's on YouTube, you should

977
00:53:02,239 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: watch it. A visibly horrified and disappointed, Geraldo gave up,

978
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 1: saying well, I guess we struck out and apologized to viewers, and,

979
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 1: like Louis Bodine said, his career truly never recovered, and

980
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 1: the term al capones vault became a euphemism in the

981
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 1: industry for basically, you know, an overhyped event that turns

982
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 1: out to be sort of a nothing burger. Let's talk

983
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 1: about Louis Bodine for a second. He's one of my

984
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,280
Speaker 1: favorite characters in this movie, the long haired, straight talking,

985
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:32,280
Speaker 1: eccentric member of the treasure hunting crew. He's play describe

986
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 1: you all right, straight talking Emma Securitis talking. Yeah. He's

987
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:44,800
Speaker 1: played by James Cameron's friend Louis Abernathy, who's not really

988
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 1: an actor, but James Cameron imagined Lewis when he wrote

989
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 1: the role. After failing to find anyone who could deliver

990
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 1: the lines in his inimitable way, he just asked him

991
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: straight out, and Lewis supposedly said, if you want to

992
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:58,840
Speaker 1: mess up your movie by casting me, buddy. Alright, Apparently

993
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,840
Speaker 1: he ghost wrote a bunch, at least according to his LinkedIn,

994
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 1: he wrote some of the stuff with Cameron. We should

995
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 1: have reached out to him and tried to get a

996
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: couple of quotes from him. That would have been a

997
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 1: fun man. I screwed up, That's funny. I always get

998
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 1: his character confused with Philip seymour Hoffin's character in Twister,

999
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:17,400
Speaker 1: which is also starring Bill Paxton. You know, kind of

1000
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 1: larger gruff, slightly hippie ish. He wrote the movie. I

1001
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:25,240
Speaker 1: was just talking about Deep Star six really apparently according

1002
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: to his LinkedIn, So you know he's I love that

1003
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 1: he has a LinkedIn. That really means he's not a

1004
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 1: real actor. I am dB page LinkedIn sure. Yeah. Uh.

1005
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 1: Lewis provides a very crucial bit of exposition when he

1006
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 1: shows the computer animation of the Titanic sinking to Old Rose,

1007
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 1: and it's a great way of showing people who aren't

1008
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 1: familiar with the ship sinking what actually happened on the

1009
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:48,359
Speaker 1: night and kind of getting them up to speed on

1010
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 1: what they're about to see later on. It kind of

1011
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 1: adds to the tension because you know, like, oh, a

1012
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 1: certain point, this thing is gonna break. It kind of

1013
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 1: is a real cheeky way of you know, James Cameron

1014
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 1: himself no just giving people the end of the movie

1015
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: at the very beginning. Although if you're watching Titanic chances sorry,

1016
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 1: you know roughly how the movie ends. But now we

1017
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: have to talk about the true queen of the production,

1018
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: at least of the modern segments, Glorious Stewart, who plays

1019
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:17,799
Speaker 1: hundred year old Rose. James Cameron describes her in the

1020
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: script as having quote eyes just as bright and alive

1021
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,360
Speaker 1: as those of a young girl. At the time of

1022
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:26,840
Speaker 1: the production, there were only eight known Titanic survivors, and

1023
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: most of those were either too young to have memories

1024
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 1: of what happened over too affected by age to be

1025
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 1: able to discuss it coherently. But six year old Glorious

1026
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 1: Stewart was the only person involved with the Titanic production

1027
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 1: who was actually alive on the Titanic sank. She was

1028
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:43,240
Speaker 1: not quite two years old at the time. She'd acted

1029
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: in a few Shirley Temple movies, and as what she

1030
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:49,400
Speaker 1: described as quote the highly visible woman opposite Claude Rains

1031
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 1: in The Invisible Man. The press around the Titanic movie

1032
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 1: was that James Cameron had gotten the silver screen era

1033
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 1: actress out of retirement for this epic, but that's not

1034
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,319
Speaker 1: quite accurate. She'd had some smaller roles and stuff like

1035
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 1: nineteen six is Wildcats with Goldie on. Uh. James Cameron

1036
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:08,560
Speaker 1: originally approached Faye Ray from the original King Kong movies,

1037
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: but she supposedly turned down the role in Titanic, saying

1038
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 1: not even accurately. I think to have done this film

1039
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:20,720
Speaker 1: would have been a torturous experience altogether. YEA. Gloria Stewart

1040
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 1: had to undergo hours of makeup to become Old Rose.

1041
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,359
Speaker 1: She later said it wasn't a happy moment. I must say,

1042
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 1: to see every wrinkle and liver spot, I thought I

1043
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 1: didn't have multiplied several times. Uh. Gloria Stewart seems super cool.

1044
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 1: She insisted on meeting with Kate Winslett before shooting, began

1045
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:41,160
Speaker 1: to study her movements and gestures because, as she generously noted,

1046
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 1: I'm playing her, she's not playing me. So we killed

1047
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 1: the bottle of champagne and we talked and talked. Gloria

1048
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 1: was a hundred when she died in just like her

1049
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:54,759
Speaker 1: character and Titanic at least, I think James Cameron has

1050
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:57,319
Speaker 1: always been coy about the precise meaning of the ending

1051
00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: of the film. That she died or did she just

1052
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: have a dream that she was going back to the Titanic.

1053
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:05,439
Speaker 1: According to Gloria Stewart's grandson, James Cameron refused to tell

1054
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 1: her the meeting. When they shot the scene of her

1055
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:09,919
Speaker 1: in bed at the end of the movie, Cameron simply said,

1056
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:13,880
Speaker 1: just lie still, Gloria, you don't need to know. Another

1057
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 1: cute aside, Rose brings all of her photos with her

1058
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 1: on board the Keldish. One of them shows her on

1059
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 1: a horse with Santa Monica Pier in the background, and

1060
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 1: I think that's cute because at the beginning of the movie,

1061
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 1: shortly after Jack and Rose met, Jack promises Rose that

1062
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 1: he'll take her to the Santa Monica Pier whether they

1063
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 1: go on a roller coaster and ride horses on the beach,

1064
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: ignoring the fact that there weren't actually roller coasters there

1065
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 1: in nineteen twelve, which is one of the few anachronisms

1066
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: in this movie. It's a cute way of showing that

1067
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 1: she did indeed do all the things that Jack promised

1068
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:45,600
Speaker 1: her she would I like that speaking of Old Rose

1069
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 1: not traveling light. I think she's called Old Rose in

1070
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 1: the script. I know James Camermon always refris to is

1071
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 1: that I always feel bad calling her old Rose, but

1072
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:55,919
Speaker 1: I think that's her official name. One of the things

1073
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,520
Speaker 1: that she brings onto the research vessel is her dog,

1074
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 1: a little Pomeranium. Pomeranians were two of only three dogs

1075
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 1: known to have survived the Titanic disaster. The other was

1076
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 1: a Pekinese. They escaped when passengers brought them onto the lifeboats.

1077
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 1: They were small enough to sit on laps, and there's

1078
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 1: also a possibility that they were just smuggled aboard and

1079
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 1: coats and purses. Uh. Can you imagine being a freezing

1080
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 1: lifeboat witnessing the death of people with a high strung

1081
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: little like rat dog nipping at your feet. Well, Peakinies

1082
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 1: were bread is like Chinese nobility dogs to no but

1083
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 1: for warmth, like because you would just they would literally

1084
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:36,959
Speaker 1: just put them in their sleeves so that they could

1085
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 1: to keep warm, so if nothing else, it was another

1086
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 1: source of body eat and then you could eat it.

1087
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 1: I think, you know what, I think that the Peakanies

1088
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 1: on that that's around that Titanic was named Son yet Sen,

1089
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm serious, I think so. Oh that's sad

1090
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 1: that I knew that off top of my head. You

1091
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: are correct, at Jesus Christ. This is the dog was

1092
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: allowed to stay in her cabin as stewards considered it

1093
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 1: too pretty to put among the bigger dogs in kennel's

1094
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 1: too pretty for prison. Do you know what the other

1095
00:59:07,640 --> 00:59:11,320
Speaker 1: dogs on the Titanic were? Uh? I believe there is

1096
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 1: a King Charles Spaniel, a few air Dales, fox terrier.

1097
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 1: I know, there was a French bulldog and a Great Dane.

1098
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 1: I don't see the Great Dane, a chow Chow named

1099
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 1: chow Chow, um Pomeranian named Lady Frew Frew that was

1100
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 1: the aforementioned too pretty toy. And uh Rigel, a Newfoundland

1101
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 1: purported to have been on the ship who saved survivors.

1102
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:44,280
Speaker 1: Oh that's a myth. Yeah, it's apocryphal. Yeah, all these

1103
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 1: There was a kennel on board the ship. I think

1104
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:48,439
Speaker 1: it was behind the fourth funnel, and they were all

1105
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: walked once a day by a steward. They had a

1106
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 1: good life until they didn't um. There was a plan

1107
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 1: to have a mini dog show in the first class,

1108
00:59:57,640 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 1: but the ship sank I think the day before it

1109
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 1: was going to take place. During the sinking, a passenger

1110
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 1: freed the dogs from their kennels, and a survivor later

1111
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 1: recalled seeing a French bulldog swimming in the ocean, which

1112
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:11,200
Speaker 1: I find weird because I was under the impression that

1113
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 1: French bulldogs couldn't swim because of their freakish compact body frames.

1114
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:18,120
Speaker 1: Well they're fat, right, so they got they can float

1115
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:23,920
Speaker 1: a little. Well maybe, God, that's depressing. James Cameron filmed

1116
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:27,840
Speaker 1: the scene that the Picks camera drowned many dogs to

1117
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 1: make this movie. He filmed the scene where the animals

1118
01:00:33,240 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 1: are dramatically freed, but it was left on the cutting

1119
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:37,760
Speaker 1: room floor, probably as you said, because it was just

1120
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,800
Speaker 1: too upsetting to consider the whole dead dog angle. Uh.

1121
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 1: There are numerous myths about these animals. One is that

1122
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 1: they were freed by John jacob Astor, the richest passenger

1123
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 1: on board. Rose points John jacob Astor out during the

1124
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:54,280
Speaker 1: dinner party scene when he's with his young wife who's pregnant,

1125
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 1: and it caused quite the scandal. I believe, you know

1126
01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:00,600
Speaker 1: a little likely there's in a delicate condition. Quite the scandal.

1127
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 1: I think I have that right. Joe Jacob Aster is

1128
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:06,640
Speaker 1: also the man who supposedly pioneered the concept of velvet

1129
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: ropes at his hotel, the Waldorf Astoria in New York.

1130
01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:14,840
Speaker 1: You know that I didn't Supposedly Astor didn't want to

1131
01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 1: die alone, and he wanted to be with his Airdale

1132
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 1: when the end came, which is sad. So that's the

1133
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 1: story of him freeing all the animals. There's also a

1134
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 1: story of a woman in first class named and Eliza

1135
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: Isham I think it's how you say her name, who

1136
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:31,640
Speaker 1: wouldn't leave the Titanic without her beloved Great Danes, so

1137
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 1: she stayed behind and died. Supposedly, a passenger on a

1138
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 1: ship passing through the wreck site a few days later

1139
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 1: saw a woman's body floating in the ocean, holding onto

1140
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:44,640
Speaker 1: the body of a large dog. However, this might be apocryphal.

1141
01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: There's no hard evidence for this story, and apparently when

1142
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:49,040
Speaker 1: you do a little digging, you learned that this woman

1143
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:52,040
Speaker 1: didn't even have a dog. There are so many tall

1144
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 1: tales when it comes to the Titanic. In addition to

1145
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: old Roses dog, her goldfish, and an assortment of other crap,

1146
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,280
Speaker 1: Rose brings her granddaughter, Lizzie, who was played by the

1147
01:02:03,320 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 1: actress Susie Amos. I said earlier, watching this movie a

1148
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:09,080
Speaker 1: few years ago, I was struck by the obvious sexual

1149
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 1: tension between her and Bill Paxson's character. Turns out I

1150
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 1: was right. There's a long lost ending of the Titanic

1151
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:16,640
Speaker 1: movie that we'll talk about in the next episode, which

1152
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 1: focuses on their budding romantic relationship. But it's also interesting

1153
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 1: in me because actress Susie Amos went on to marry

1154
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 1: James Cameron, So the woman he cast to be the

1155
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:28,160
Speaker 1: love interest for the character that, let's face it is

1156
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:31,000
Speaker 1: basically him, later wound up to be his wife. A

1157
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 1: few years after the movie was made. I forgot he

1158
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 1: also was married to the woman who wrote Terminator, Aliens

1159
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:39,680
Speaker 1: and the Abyss with him Galen Heard. They were married.

1160
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:42,439
Speaker 1: I thought it was Katherine Bigelow. It was a woman

1161
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 1: who was like, I don't know her name. I think

1162
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:46,360
Speaker 1: she was like a waitress. And when he was working

1163
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 1: as a trucker in his twenties, yeah, well, his his

1164
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 1: track record is Sharon Williams divorced in eighty four, Galen

1165
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 1: Heard married in eighty five, divorce eighty nine Katherine Bigelow

1166
01:02:56,440 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 1: married in eighty nine divorcee. He just serial Lee left

1167
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 1: women for the women he would then marry and then

1168
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:05,560
Speaker 1: leave for another woman. Oh that was his fifth marriage then,

1169
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:08,240
Speaker 1: but hey, his fifth marriage is by far as long

1170
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:10,840
Speaker 1: as they've been together since two thousand and remained so

1171
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 1: to this day. So good for them. Highly weird. Oh well,

1172
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:20,200
Speaker 1: do you want to get to the real, the real

1173
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 1: weirdest part of this story? My personal favorite story from

1174
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 1: the Titanic filming? Well, let me ask you, do you

1175
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 1: want to go to a real party? Yeah, some of you,

1176
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:35,560
Speaker 1: possibly surface levels familiar with Titanic Apocrapha made know the

1177
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:38,840
Speaker 1: story that someone dosed clam chowder on the set with

1178
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:45,280
Speaker 1: PCP or Angel dust Sherman Helmsley wet. I'm trying to

1179
01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:49,640
Speaker 1: think of what else. He calls it. That Chappelle show skit. Um,

1180
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 1: that's Angel dust Jake. I didn't know you'd like to

1181
01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 1: get wet Jake training day, man? I love that. We

1182
01:03:57,120 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 1: should just do we do training day? We should? Um?

1183
01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 1: James Cameron was made made some enemies, let's put it

1184
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 1: that way. Um, one of them, though it's never been

1185
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 1: revealed who decided to take revenge on Cameron and the

1186
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:16,080
Speaker 1: rest of the production by spiking the Craft services chowder

1187
01:04:16,120 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 1: clam chowder. Was it New England or was at the

1188
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 1: red of the question. I think it's white, but it's

1189
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 1: unsure whether or not it was lobster clam or muscle chowder.

1190
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 1: There's been something okay, all right? Wow, they spiked it

1191
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 1: with PCP. UM. Upwards of fifty people, including James Cameron,

1192
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:42,080
Speaker 1: were hospitalized with PCP hallucinations. Um. They were just about

1193
01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:45,360
Speaker 1: to wrap filming in Halifax, the last day of filming

1194
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 1: in Halifax, just after midnight on August. Can you play

1195
01:04:49,600 --> 01:04:51,600
Speaker 1: some penny whistles in the background? What to set? They

1196
01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:53,480
Speaker 1: play the pipe that James Horner score in so we

1197
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:56,160
Speaker 1: can really set the mood here. It's been twenty five

1198
01:04:56,280 --> 01:05:03,200
Speaker 1: years and I still remember getting super high. Uh. They

1199
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 1: were about to head to Baja Mexico to the Giant Titanic.

1200
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: Said that they built on the water cast and crew

1201
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,200
Speaker 1: broke for lunch even though it was after midnight. James

1202
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 1: Cameron time lunches after midnight on James Cameron shere and

1203
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 1: people went for the chowder, which should uh supposedly very

1204
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:23,920
Speaker 1: good good chowder. So much so that people were going

1205
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 1: back for second bowls and eating a lot more than usual,

1206
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 1: which was not helpful. And that's when things took a turn. Uh.

1207
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:35,560
Speaker 1: People began to feel confused, the general atmosphere of Cameron

1208
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 1: esque productivity broke down. A stand in suddenly fainted. An

1209
01:05:40,400 --> 01:05:44,160
Speaker 1: onset translator summed up the experience pretty well, I feel

1210
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:48,760
Speaker 1: toxic and beside myself, which welcome to the party. Pal

1211
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:53,360
Speaker 1: Bill Paxton told him tament weekly soon afterwards. One minute

1212
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:56,040
Speaker 1: I felt okay, the next minute, I felt so damn anxious.

1213
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 1: I wanted to breathe in a paper bag. Is PCP

1214
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:02,520
Speaker 1: just like being me? Because that's what that does to you,

1215
01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:07,080
Speaker 1: Just makes you feel disassociated and anxious. That sucks. Uh.

1216
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:10,320
Speaker 1: The steadicam operator started seeing colors and fog, while others

1217
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:13,440
Speaker 1: saw streaks. Okay, I don't have that. James Cameron was

1218
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:15,640
Speaker 1: one of those affected. He said he was suddenly feeling

1219
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:19,680
Speaker 1: suddenly and distinctly woozy, fearing that this was the result

1220
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 1: of bad seafood or a paralytic shellfish neurotoxin. In his words,

1221
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 1: because nothing is normal with James Cameron. It's never food

1222
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:30,760
Speaker 1: poisoning or something. He suddenly thinks he's been hit with

1223
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:37,040
Speaker 1: the food goo that he probably attempted to butcher himself.

1224
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 1: He's like, no, no, I got this. That's what actually happened.

1225
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 1: James Cameron was trying to serve everyone blowfish and poisoned

1226
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:47,440
Speaker 1: them because he had tried to do the famously difficult

1227
01:06:47,520 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 1: toxin removal operation himself, went off and forced himself to

1228
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:56,160
Speaker 1: vomit because he's gusts from breaking bad. I guess suddenly

1229
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:57,680
Speaker 1: couldn't find his way out of the set that he

1230
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 1: had been working on for weeks. His buddy Lewis or Natha,

1231
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 1: the aforementioned actor writer, later said, I was just shocked

1232
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:06,240
Speaker 1: at the way he looked. One eye was completely read

1233
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 1: like the terminator I a pupil, no iris beat red.

1234
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 1: The other eye looked like he'd been sniffing glue since

1235
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 1: he was four. When Cameron returned to the set, he

1236
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:17,760
Speaker 1: discovered that everyone had gone and it was eerily empty,

1237
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:20,880
Speaker 1: like an episode of the Twilight Zone. The affected crew

1238
01:07:20,880 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 1: were taken moaning, crying, and wailing to a nearby hospital,

1239
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 1: where one doctor quickly determined, as he later told reporters,

1240
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:30,680
Speaker 1: these people were stoned. Much of this comes from this

1241
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 1: fantastic Cracked article written by J. M McNabb, which is

1242
01:07:34,320 --> 01:07:37,480
Speaker 1: this oral history of just this specific moment on set,

1243
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:41,640
Speaker 1: everyone was so freaking high that they started racing wheelchairs

1244
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:45,640
Speaker 1: down the hallway and performed a spirited congo line led

1245
01:07:45,640 --> 01:07:51,680
Speaker 1: by legendary cinematographer Caleb Deschanel, Zoey's dad. As documented in

1246
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:55,000
Speaker 1: the Cameron biography The Futurists, the director used his walkie

1247
01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:57,560
Speaker 1: talkie to radio his assistant director while he was standing

1248
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:01,800
Speaker 1: directly in front of him. She then left at Cameron

1249
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 1: and stabbed him in the face with a pen before

1250
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:08,240
Speaker 1: being dragged away by hospital staff, all while Cameron sat

1251
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 1: quote bleeding and laughing. It's James David Lynch movie. Bill Paxton,

1252
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 1: understandably freaked out by the bedlam, quietly ducked out of

1253
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 1: the e R with a teamster and went back to

1254
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:25,639
Speaker 1: the set, where he drank an entire case of beer,

1255
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:30,360
Speaker 1: which he said later seemed to help at the yeah quote.

1256
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:33,200
Speaker 1: The mania at the hospital eventually died down and evolved

1257
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 1: into a game of hacky sack as the collective high mellowed. Thankfully,

1258
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 1: no one suffered any long term ill effects, and mercifully,

1259
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:44,759
Speaker 1: six year old glorious Stewart didn't have any of the chowder,

1260
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:49,280
Speaker 1: uh she later she was later found chewing James Cameron's

1261
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:53,800
Speaker 1: face off oh Man. The next day, the police were

1262
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 1: called in and they tested samples of the leftover chowder,

1263
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:59,720
Speaker 1: determining indeed that it had been laced with PCP. The

1264
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 1: guilt the party. It was never apprehended. If you were

1265
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 1: a friend know the identity of the person who dosed

1266
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:08,000
Speaker 1: the Titanic chowder on PCP. Get in Touch with Too

1267
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:12,040
Speaker 1: Much Information podcast will Vetimov five Bucks case was investigated

1268
01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:14,200
Speaker 1: for two and a half years, with the Halifax Police

1269
01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:17,120
Speaker 1: Department executing a warrant for Department of Health records getting

1270
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 1: a list of everyone who had worked on the set,

1271
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:23,000
Speaker 1: but ultimately the case was closed to lack of suspects,

1272
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:25,839
Speaker 1: long after the movie had been released. But there are theories.

1273
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 1: Some believe it was a prank by locals who wanted

1274
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:29,919
Speaker 1: to have a party in the last night of Hollywood

1275
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 1: and Halifax. The CEO of the local catering company who

1276
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:36,000
Speaker 1: provided the chowder claimed that it was the Hollywood crowd

1277
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 1: bringing in the psychedelic. Speaking to Entertainment Weekly, he added,

1278
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:42,360
Speaker 1: I don't think it was purposely done to hurt somebody.

1279
01:09:42,640 --> 01:09:44,639
Speaker 1: It was done like a party thing that got carried

1280
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:49,479
Speaker 1: away Canada. Uh Still, James Cameron reportedly flipped out on

1281
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 1: one of the servers early in the shoot when he

1282
01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:54,440
Speaker 1: was given a hot cup of soup, which he abruptly

1283
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:58,920
Speaker 1: tossed aside, screaming, don't you ever serve me boiling soup again?

1284
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:05,559
Speaker 1: So pretty strong finger pointed at that guy, Bill Paxson. Meanwhile,

1285
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:08,120
Speaker 1: I believe it was an inside job, as does Cameron,

1286
01:10:08,120 --> 01:10:10,240
Speaker 1: who says he has a good idea who did it,

1287
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:13,080
Speaker 1: even though he can't prove it. He later said we

1288
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:15,599
Speaker 1: had fired a crew member the day before because they

1289
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 1: were creating trouble with the caterers, so we believe the

1290
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:21,800
Speaker 1: poisoning was this idiot's plan to get back at the caters, whom,

1291
01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:25,000
Speaker 1: of course we promptly fired the next day. So it worked,

1292
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:28,839
Speaker 1: and it's a delightful afterimage to this entire thing. Production

1293
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:32,240
Speaker 1: had t shirts made depicting this Titanic sinking in a

1294
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:38,120
Speaker 1: big bowl of chowder. Uh. I didn't imagine James Cameron

1295
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 1: as as a drug guy. But in an oral history

1296
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:42,479
Speaker 1: of the Terminator Too for the Ringer, he admitted that

1297
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 1: he was high on ecstasy when he conceived of the

1298
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:47,800
Speaker 1: plot of Terminator two. He said, I was sitting there

1299
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:50,800
Speaker 1: once high on E writing notes for Terminator, and I

1300
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 1: was struck by Sting song. I hope the Russians love

1301
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:57,439
Speaker 1: their children too. And I thought, you know what, the

1302
01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:01,320
Speaker 1: idea of nuclear war is just so antithetical to life itself.

1303
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:03,920
Speaker 1: That's where the kid came from. What Sting song is that?

1304
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:08,720
Speaker 1: I think Russians by the stick, Oh my god, this

1305
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:11,599
Speaker 1: is thick. Oh it's from the Dream of the Blue Turtles.

1306
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:15,160
Speaker 1: The lyrics are on either side of the political fence.

1307
01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:19,280
Speaker 1: We share the same biology, regardless of ideology. Believe me

1308
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:21,720
Speaker 1: when I say to you, I hope the Russians love

1309
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:25,920
Speaker 1: their children too. Great tremendous work. They're from Gordon Sumner.

1310
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:29,320
Speaker 1: I just want to imagine that James Cameron is on

1311
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:36,360
Speaker 1: E listening to Sting Dream of the Blue Turtles. Yeah. Yeah,

1312
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:40,160
Speaker 1: it's a very funny mental image. Time to take one

1313
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:43,519
Speaker 1: ecstasy pill, do punch up notes on the Terminator and

1314
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 1: listen to Dream of the Blue Turtles my favorite pastime.

1315
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:52,800
Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, sizes arts. This wasn't even a new

1316
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 1: Sting album, it was it was a Terminator one or two,

1317
01:11:56,120 --> 01:12:00,360
Speaker 1: it says writing Notes from Terminators Okay says it wasn't

1318
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:02,559
Speaker 1: even a new Sting album. He just put on his

1319
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 1: favorite sting album and he wrote one. So he was

1320
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:11,600
Speaker 1: just like, what can I listen to? Really takes me

1321
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:13,920
Speaker 1: back to my time living in the truck and directing

1322
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:21,880
Speaker 1: Piranha for Roger Corman, Phil Collins, No Rats, and Dream

1323
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 1: of the Blue Turtles. I'm mentioning the whole American Psycho speech.

1324
01:12:27,080 --> 01:12:29,760
Speaker 1: Have you heard of Dream of the Blue Do you

1325
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:33,200
Speaker 1: like Dream of the Blue Turtles? He's doing the whole

1326
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:37,680
Speaker 1: speech from from American Psycho to Lynda Hamilton's, But it's

1327
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:44,640
Speaker 1: about stings Dream of the Blue Turtles. We're going to

1328
01:12:44,720 --> 01:12:46,880
Speaker 1: take a quick break, but we'll be right back with

1329
01:12:46,920 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 1: more too much information in just a moment. Well, chronologically,

1330
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:03,200
Speaker 1: this is where we should segue into the gargantuan sinkabole

1331
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 1: Titanic set that James Cameron built. But we haven't talked

1332
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:10,360
Speaker 1: about the principles of this film, who naturally took a

1333
01:13:10,360 --> 01:13:16,240
Speaker 1: back seat to Bill Paxton as they must always first up,

1334
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 1: Kate Winslet, Leonardo DiCaprio, your two photogenic young leads. So

1335
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:23,800
Speaker 1: we have to talk about fantasy casting for Rose first,

1336
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:27,839
Speaker 1: who James Cameron described as an Audrey Hepburn type. Cameron

1337
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:31,280
Speaker 1: has refused to play the fantasy casting bit famously. He

1338
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:33,000
Speaker 1: doesn't want to talk about people who are also in

1339
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:35,800
Speaker 1: consideration for his leads, uh one, saying I would either

1340
01:13:35,840 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 1: confirm or deny. I don't think that's cool to talk

1341
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:40,600
Speaker 1: about actors that either chose not to do it, or

1342
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:44,120
Speaker 1: were unavailable, or stupidly decided there wasn't enough meat on

1343
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:47,559
Speaker 1: the bone of the character, or whatever it was. He

1344
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:50,840
Speaker 1: just cannot He just always has to get his shot

1345
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:53,479
Speaker 1: to the body. And I love it. But the rumor

1346
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:56,519
Speaker 1: mill continues to churn with or without Cameron's approval, and

1347
01:13:56,600 --> 01:13:59,360
Speaker 1: so we have a pretty good authority that those once

1348
01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:03,520
Speaker 1: considered were a part of Rose work. Gwyneth Paltrow, Nicole Kidman, Madonna,

1349
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:07,880
Speaker 1: Jodie Foster, Cameron Diaz, and Sharon Stone. Who would you

1350
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:13,160
Speaker 1: like in there? Jordan's um, it has to be Gwyneth Paltrow.

1351
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:17,360
Speaker 1: From me, she's already she's she's Hollywood Royalty, She's hottie.

1352
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:20,599
Speaker 1: The rest of them were too like normal. Claire Days

1353
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:22,559
Speaker 1: has said that there was strong interest in her to

1354
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:24,800
Speaker 1: take the part of Rose, especially considering that she was

1355
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 1: seventeen and had just filmed the actual Romeo and juliet

1356
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:31,439
Speaker 1: As opposed to Romeo and Juliette on a boat uh

1357
01:14:31,439 --> 01:14:33,840
Speaker 1: with Leo in Mexico, But she said she was not

1358
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:35,680
Speaker 1: ready for the kind of attention that a movie like

1359
01:14:35,720 --> 01:14:38,200
Speaker 1: that would bring. I was really clear about it. I

1360
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:40,800
Speaker 1: wasn't conflicted. I was feeling eager to have a different

1361
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:43,320
Speaker 1: creative experiences, and that felt like a repeat. So it

1362
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:45,400
Speaker 1: was going to propel me towards something that I knew

1363
01:14:45,439 --> 01:14:48,280
Speaker 1: I didn't have the resources to cope with, So no

1364
01:14:48,360 --> 01:14:51,040
Speaker 1: regrets on her part. Kate Winslett herself has said that

1365
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:54,600
Speaker 1: contemporaries like Uma Thurman and Winona Writer were more likely candidates,

1366
01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:56,720
Speaker 1: but wins It was taken with the script immediately and

1367
01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:58,680
Speaker 1: she wasn't going to take no for an answer. She

1368
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:01,439
Speaker 1: told Rolling Stone in nineteen and eight, I closed the script,

1369
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:04,880
Speaker 1: wept floods of tears and said, right, I've absolutely got

1370
01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:06,639
Speaker 1: to be a part of this, no two ways about it.

1371
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:10,120
Speaker 1: She took a very proactive approach, obtaining Jim Cameron's personal

1372
01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:12,280
Speaker 1: cell number and calling him while he was driving and

1373
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:14,880
Speaker 1: she later recalled, I think he pulled over and I said,

1374
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:16,840
Speaker 1: I just have to do this, and you are really

1375
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:19,519
Speaker 1: mad if you don't cast me. They are all kinds

1376
01:15:19,520 --> 01:15:21,720
Speaker 1: of stories of the length that she went. She sent

1377
01:15:21,800 --> 01:15:24,160
Speaker 1: him a brache of daily notes from England, which led

1378
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:27,120
Speaker 1: him to invite her to Hollywood to audition. She supposedly

1379
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:29,400
Speaker 1: sent him a single rose afterwards, with a card that

1380
01:15:29,479 --> 01:15:32,400
Speaker 1: read from your Rose, although she later denied that she'd

1381
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:35,160
Speaker 1: done such a thing. But Cameron was not convinced and

1382
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:38,759
Speaker 1: kept auditioning other people, which led her to call him fuming,

1383
01:15:39,040 --> 01:15:41,960
Speaker 1: you don't understand I am Rose. I don't know why

1384
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:45,000
Speaker 1: you're even seeing anyone else. It's like when Sean Young

1385
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:49,040
Speaker 1: broke into Tim Burton's office or whatever too in Catwoman

1386
01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 1: costume right, oh my god. Uh. Camera was nervous, partially

1387
01:15:55,280 --> 01:15:58,160
Speaker 1: because this was her Winslet's first American film and about

1388
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:00,800
Speaker 1: ten times bigger than anything else she'd been in. Uh.

1389
01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:03,439
Speaker 1: He did want relative newcomers so that the audience wouldn't

1390
01:16:03,439 --> 01:16:06,479
Speaker 1: carry the preconceived notions of someone like Jodie Foster or

1391
01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 1: Sharon Stone to the characters winds that seemed a little

1392
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:11,920
Speaker 1: inexperienced to carry what would become a two hundred million

1393
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:14,559
Speaker 1: dollar film. She'd done a lot of historical movies and

1394
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:19,240
Speaker 1: was known, according to Cameron as Corset Kate. As Kate

1395
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:22,000
Speaker 1: later herself said, Jim took a risk in casting me.

1396
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:24,120
Speaker 1: She learned that she got the part where she was

1397
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:27,840
Speaker 1: filming Hamlet with Kenneth Branna, apparently during a fitting for

1398
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 1: the strait jacket for her breakdown scene as Ophelia, which

1399
01:16:31,600 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 1: fitting preparation for shooting a movie with James Cameron. She

1400
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:38,280
Speaker 1: was reportedly paid slightly less than a million dollars for

1401
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:41,439
Speaker 1: her part in Titanic, and received an Oscar nomination for

1402
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:43,760
Speaker 1: Best Actress for the part, but apparently she has a

1403
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:46,080
Speaker 1: hard time watching it these days because, as she says,

1404
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:49,760
Speaker 1: my American accent is appalling. I've learned so much more,

1405
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 1: not just about myself, but about the job that I

1406
01:16:52,040 --> 01:16:54,280
Speaker 1: do in the world of film. I look at myself

1407
01:16:54,280 --> 01:16:56,919
Speaker 1: and Titanic and wish I could bring all this knowledge

1408
01:16:56,960 --> 01:17:00,240
Speaker 1: that I now have into that. And now so over

1409
01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:02,960
Speaker 1: to Leonardo DiCaprio, who I am sorry to say it

1410
01:17:03,080 --> 01:17:05,640
Speaker 1: was so much less charming than Kate Winslet throughout the

1411
01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:11,120
Speaker 1: casting process. Well, this is the pussy posse days, right, Yeah, yeah,

1412
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:13,559
Speaker 1: you didn't mention that any here once. I didn't know.

1413
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:17,439
Speaker 1: I did not. Uh. In fact, Leo was sort of

1414
01:17:17,479 --> 01:17:19,760
Speaker 1: a brat, which I'm sure isn't the most shocking thing

1415
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:22,040
Speaker 1: in the world to learn. There were many occuas up

1416
01:17:22,080 --> 01:17:24,560
Speaker 1: for consideration for the part. Kate Winslett actually set on

1417
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:28,040
Speaker 1: an episode of Colbart that she auditioned with Matthew McConaughey,

1418
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:32,000
Speaker 1: which is bizarre. He was apparently the top choice for

1419
01:17:32,040 --> 01:17:35,080
Speaker 1: the studio, and McConaughey later said, in the most McConaughey

1420
01:17:35,080 --> 01:17:38,080
Speaker 1: way ever, I went an audition for that. I wanted

1421
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:40,919
Speaker 1: that an audition with Kate Winslet, had a good audition,

1422
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:43,680
Speaker 1: walked away from there feeling pretty confident that I had it.

1423
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:47,120
Speaker 1: I didn't get it. I never got offered that. I've

1424
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:49,080
Speaker 1: also seen reports that he'd tried out for the role

1425
01:17:49,080 --> 01:17:53,800
Speaker 1: of Calves Roses jerky fiance, which I just handsome enough.

1426
01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:56,280
Speaker 1: I just can't see that unless he was some sort

1427
01:17:56,320 --> 01:18:00,000
Speaker 1: of like new oil money bearing or something. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1428
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:04,680
Speaker 1: that fits maybe. Uh. Christian Bale's ex publicists claimed that

1429
01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:07,360
Speaker 1: Christian also auditioned for the part of Jack Dawson but

1430
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:10,120
Speaker 1: didn't get the part. But I said ex publicists, so

1431
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:12,840
Speaker 1: maybe they were just being spiteful. I've also seen theories

1432
01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:15,439
Speaker 1: that James Cameron turned down Christian Bale because he didn't

1433
01:18:15,439 --> 01:18:18,519
Speaker 1: want two Brits playing Americans as the leads in his

1434
01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:23,040
Speaker 1: two dred million dollar extravaganza. Also potential people Johnny Depp,

1435
01:18:23,120 --> 01:18:27,000
Speaker 1: Brad Pitt, Jared Lado, Billy Crudup, Stephen Dorff, and McAuley

1436
01:18:27,200 --> 01:18:31,360
Speaker 1: Culkin apparently man were considered for the role, as was

1437
01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:34,599
Speaker 1: Chris o'donald, who was another studio favorite. Like any of those,

1438
01:18:35,080 --> 01:18:40,840
Speaker 1: Um no, Jared let I'm not mad at God. Can

1439
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:44,639
Speaker 1: you imagine how unbearable, how much orders of magnitude worse

1440
01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:46,439
Speaker 1: he'd been if he'd been in one of the highest

1441
01:18:46,439 --> 01:18:49,200
Speaker 1: grossing films of all time. I think that's the only

1442
01:18:49,200 --> 01:18:51,160
Speaker 1: thing that keeps him humbles. He keeps starting in a

1443
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:56,000
Speaker 1: bunch of flops. Uh. Tom Cruise apparently expressed an interest

1444
01:18:56,040 --> 01:18:59,639
Speaker 1: in playing Jack Dawson. Course, asking price was way too

1445
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:02,479
Speaker 1: high and he was never seriously considered. We would have

1446
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:06,400
Speaker 1: gotten cold fusion from the singularity of Cruise and Cameron's

1447
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:08,960
Speaker 1: egos colliding on this set. He kidded me, it would

1448
01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:12,639
Speaker 1: have been like a new galaxy being born. There's also

1449
01:19:12,720 --> 01:19:16,720
Speaker 1: audition footage out there with Jeremy Sisto from Clueless in

1450
01:19:16,760 --> 01:19:20,439
Speaker 1: the Jack role, which is truly weird to watch. It's

1451
01:19:20,479 --> 01:19:23,040
Speaker 1: the scene where Jack is showing Rose his sketch book,

1452
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:26,479
Speaker 1: and for some reason, watching it just offends me to

1453
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:29,880
Speaker 1: my core. It's like really painful to watch. He plays

1454
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:32,920
Speaker 1: it completely differently. There's the line where Rose sees a woman,

1455
01:19:33,160 --> 01:19:36,719
Speaker 1: a one legged prostitute according to the script multiple times

1456
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:39,840
Speaker 1: in the sketch book, and she playfully accuses Jack of

1457
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 1: having an affair with her, and in the movie, Leo

1458
01:19:42,479 --> 01:19:44,760
Speaker 1: dismisses it with a laugh and says, just just with

1459
01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:49,280
Speaker 1: their hands, got cool hands. Jeremy's sister gets almost melancholic

1460
01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:55,679
Speaker 1: and very pensively says, just with her hands. It's all wrong,

1461
01:19:55,800 --> 01:19:59,200
Speaker 1: it's all wrong. It's unbearable. Jeremy's sister would go on

1462
01:19:59,240 --> 01:20:06,160
Speaker 1: to play jesus Us in the titular film Jesus with

1463
01:20:06,439 --> 01:20:09,920
Speaker 1: uh Gary Oldman is Punch his pilot. I know nothing

1464
01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:12,280
Speaker 1: about this movie, but I just looked up his filmography.

1465
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:18,080
Speaker 1: When from almost playing Jack to playing Jesus, Oh yeah,

1466
01:20:18,160 --> 01:20:21,640
Speaker 1: it's not great, but Jeremy's sister was pretty graceful by

1467
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:23,840
Speaker 1: not getting the part. He said, it was exciting to

1468
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:26,240
Speaker 1: be a part of the process. Anything James Cameron does

1469
01:20:26,280 --> 01:20:28,679
Speaker 1: has this huge scope to it. He's trying to push

1470
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:31,360
Speaker 1: the limits on things. So I was just insanely inspired

1471
01:20:31,400 --> 01:20:33,880
Speaker 1: by it. Had a little heartbroken when the role didn't

1472
01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:37,439
Speaker 1: come my way. Also, speaking of Clueless, Paul Rudd was

1473
01:20:37,479 --> 01:20:40,080
Speaker 1: also considered, which is a big thrill for him because

1474
01:20:40,080 --> 01:20:43,559
Speaker 1: his dad's apparently a big Titanic nerd, and supposedly during

1475
01:20:43,640 --> 01:20:46,719
Speaker 1: us audition he rattled off all sorts of Titanic facts,

1476
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:48,600
Speaker 1: which I could see as being a reason why he

1477
01:20:48,680 --> 01:20:51,120
Speaker 1: didn't get the gig, with James Cameron just being like,

1478
01:20:51,160 --> 01:20:54,439
Speaker 1: excuse me, we only have room for one Titanic expert here. Sorry,

1479
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:56,360
Speaker 1: this would have been right as he was coming off

1480
01:20:56,400 --> 01:21:00,240
Speaker 1: of Romeo and Juliet. Paul Rudd, Yeah, no, he I'm

1481
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:03,920
Speaker 1: talking about the sixth Michael Myers movie, Halloween six, The

1482
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:07,960
Speaker 1: Curse of Michael Myers. Paul Rose in Halloween six, Jordan's

1483
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:15,400
Speaker 1: please please, You're embarrassing yourself. Uh. In the end, James

1484
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:19,280
Speaker 1: Cameron insisted on Leonardo DiCaprio even Kate Winslett was set

1485
01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:21,720
Speaker 1: on it after she screen tested with Leo. She was

1486
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:24,760
Speaker 1: so impressed that she told James Cameron, he's great even

1487
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:27,439
Speaker 1: if you don't pick me, pick him, even if though

1488
01:21:27,439 --> 01:21:29,400
Speaker 1: if you don't pick me, I'll set a bomb near

1489
01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:33,760
Speaker 1: your house. The problem was that Leo didn't seem to

1490
01:21:33,800 --> 01:21:36,560
Speaker 1: give a damn about this movie. I mean, let's face it,

1491
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:39,280
Speaker 1: James Cameron's movies had never been known for their acting.

1492
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:43,400
Speaker 1: Uh insert Chris Rocks. That's just like going to Hooters

1493
01:21:43,400 --> 01:21:47,639
Speaker 1: for the wings line here. Um. By this point, Leonardo

1494
01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:50,640
Speaker 1: Capri had already gotten the Best Supporting Actor nomination for

1495
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:53,960
Speaker 1: What's Eating Gilbert Grape, making him the seventh youngest person

1496
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:56,840
Speaker 1: ever to do so at age nineteen. I mean, his

1497
01:21:56,920 --> 01:21:58,960
Speaker 1: career was launched when he read with Robert de Niro

1498
01:21:59,040 --> 01:22:01,400
Speaker 1: at an audition, and Nero hand picked him to play

1499
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:03,799
Speaker 1: the lead in This Boy's Life. So when you're impressing

1500
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:07,400
Speaker 1: Robert de Niro, you don't necessarily want to do popcorn movies. Plus,

1501
01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:10,479
Speaker 1: the character of Jack Dawson didn't interest Leo at all.

1502
01:22:11,040 --> 01:22:15,040
Speaker 1: He was just so boring, so mainstream, so traditional. Leo

1503
01:22:15,160 --> 01:22:17,320
Speaker 1: later told the l A times, I just wasn't used

1504
01:22:17,360 --> 01:22:20,719
Speaker 1: to playing an open hearted, free spirited guy. I played

1505
01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:23,200
Speaker 1: more tortured roles in the past. It was difficult to

1506
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:26,439
Speaker 1: be someone closer to me than anyone else. And he

1507
01:22:26,560 --> 01:22:29,160
Speaker 1: just appeared in Romeo and Juliet playing like the most

1508
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:32,120
Speaker 1: angsty character in literature. And you know, his ability to

1509
01:22:32,160 --> 01:22:34,360
Speaker 1: get young people to sit through two hours of Shakespeare

1510
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:37,160
Speaker 1: was probably part of the appeal for James Cameron, who

1511
01:22:37,479 --> 01:22:40,120
Speaker 1: you know, probably worried about getting teams into the theaters

1512
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:43,400
Speaker 1: for what was essentially a period piece. Paul Rudd, who

1513
01:22:43,439 --> 01:22:46,160
Speaker 1: was also in Romeo and Juliet as Paris, got Win

1514
01:22:46,320 --> 01:22:49,000
Speaker 1: that Leo was auditioning for Titanic, and he says that

1515
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:52,200
Speaker 1: he encouraged him to take the role. Red tells the story,

1516
01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:54,479
Speaker 1: it was my last day of filming on Romeo and Juliet,

1517
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:56,680
Speaker 1: and we all went out to a bar afterwards, a

1518
01:22:56,720 --> 01:22:58,840
Speaker 1: bunch of guys working on the movie. So we were

1519
01:22:58,840 --> 01:23:00,679
Speaker 1: in different cars and I was riding to the place

1520
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:02,519
Speaker 1: with Leo and he said, I just got off of

1521
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:05,120
Speaker 1: this movie and it's a big movie. He'd done indie

1522
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:06,640
Speaker 1: films up to that point, and he said, it's a

1523
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:09,920
Speaker 1: studio movie. It's Titanic, and I said, that's incredible. I

1524
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:12,000
Speaker 1: knew a lot about the Titanic because my dad just

1525
01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:14,800
Speaker 1: talks about it all the time, and he declines to

1526
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:17,679
Speaker 1: mention that he auditioned in this anecdote, so that's interesting.

1527
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:19,800
Speaker 1: And Leo and I had a conversation about it, and

1528
01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:21,640
Speaker 1: he was like, oh, I don't know what I'll do,

1529
01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:24,400
Speaker 1: and I remember saying you should do it. So Leo

1530
01:23:24,479 --> 01:23:27,200
Speaker 1: went in for a meeting, which went well, but he

1531
01:23:27,280 --> 01:23:30,400
Speaker 1: still wasn't sold on the idea, leading the ever tenacious

1532
01:23:30,479 --> 01:23:32,760
Speaker 1: Kate Winslet to seek him out when they were both

1533
01:23:32,760 --> 01:23:36,280
Speaker 1: attending the con Film Festival, literally tracking him down to

1534
01:23:36,360 --> 01:23:40,439
Speaker 1: his hotel room. Just a plus for effort here and

1535
01:23:40,520 --> 01:23:42,920
Speaker 1: the only person who really gives James Cameron to run

1536
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:47,200
Speaker 1: for his money in the department here. Yeah. She later

1537
01:23:47,240 --> 01:23:49,920
Speaker 1: told Rolling Stone, I was thinking I'm gonna persuade him

1538
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:51,760
Speaker 1: to do this because I'm not doing this without him,

1539
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:55,200
Speaker 1: and that's all there is to it. I will have him,

1540
01:23:55,240 --> 01:24:00,240
Speaker 1: I will have him. He will be mine. So Leo

1541
01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:02,719
Speaker 1: was persuaded to come back a short time later, thinking

1542
01:24:02,720 --> 01:24:04,280
Speaker 1: it was just for you know, I get to know

1543
01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:07,640
Speaker 1: you meeting with Kate Winslett. But James Camermon expected him

1544
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:09,840
Speaker 1: to read for the part and do a screen test,

1545
01:24:10,280 --> 01:24:13,519
Speaker 1: and clearly with his Gilbert grape Oscar Buzz and Romeo

1546
01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:16,800
Speaker 1: and Juliet Blockbuster magic dust, Leo felt that he was

1547
01:24:16,840 --> 01:24:19,920
Speaker 1: above this and told Cameron, Oh, I don't I don't read.

1548
01:24:20,680 --> 01:24:23,000
Speaker 1: So Cameron just shook his hand and said, well, thanks

1549
01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:26,280
Speaker 1: for coming by. Cameron tells the story in a g

1550
01:24:26,479 --> 01:24:29,840
Speaker 1: Q interview earlier this year. He said, Leo said, wait, wait, wait,

1551
01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:31,479
Speaker 1: if I don't read, I don't get the part, just

1552
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:34,000
Speaker 1: like that. And I said, oh yeah, come on, this

1553
01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:36,120
Speaker 1: is a giant movie. It's gonna take two years of

1554
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:38,400
Speaker 1: my life, and you'll be doing five other things while

1555
01:24:38,400 --> 01:24:40,439
Speaker 1: I'm doing post production. So I'm not going to sick

1556
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:42,960
Speaker 1: it up by making the wrong decision and casting. So

1557
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:44,720
Speaker 1: you're gonna read, You're not going to get the part.

1558
01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:47,439
Speaker 1: So Leo sucked it up and did the screen test.

1559
01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:52,080
Speaker 1: I will break you a little man. Cameron said, every

1560
01:24:52,120 --> 01:24:55,559
Speaker 1: ounce of his entire being was entirely negative, right up

1561
01:24:55,640 --> 01:24:58,280
Speaker 1: until I said action, and then he turned into Jack

1562
01:24:58,600 --> 01:25:00,880
Speaker 1: and Kate just lit up, and they went into this

1563
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:03,760
Speaker 1: whole thing, and he played the scene. Dark clouds had

1564
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:06,160
Speaker 1: opened up a ray of Sun came down and lit

1565
01:25:06,240 --> 01:25:08,880
Speaker 1: up Jack. I'm like, all right, all right, he's the guy.

1566
01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:11,880
Speaker 1: So Leo accepted the role for a reported two point

1567
01:25:11,920 --> 01:25:14,400
Speaker 1: five million dollars, which, if my math is correct, is

1568
01:25:14,439 --> 01:25:17,320
Speaker 1: more than double with Kate Wins like God because Hollywood

1569
01:25:17,360 --> 01:25:19,880
Speaker 1: is a cess pool. But that didn't make him any

1570
01:25:19,960 --> 01:25:22,760
Speaker 1: less of a pill. On the set. Leo, who just

1571
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:25,160
Speaker 1: turned twenty one at the time, second guess the script,

1572
01:25:25,240 --> 01:25:28,759
Speaker 1: the character, and Cameron at pretty much every turn, ultimately

1573
01:25:28,840 --> 01:25:31,320
Speaker 1: leading James Cameron the corner him one day and say,

1574
01:25:31,439 --> 01:25:33,040
Speaker 1: hey man, why did you take the part. You don't

1575
01:25:33,080 --> 01:25:36,360
Speaker 1: seem to like anything about it. To his credit, Cameron

1576
01:25:36,400 --> 01:25:39,320
Speaker 1: knew exactly what was eating him. The part was too perfect,

1577
01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:42,040
Speaker 1: too easy. Leo wanted James Cameron to give Jack a

1578
01:25:42,160 --> 01:25:44,400
Speaker 1: limp or a tick or some kind of character flaw,

1579
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:47,799
Speaker 1: and Cameron later observed his character doesn't go through torment,

1580
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:51,320
Speaker 1: and Leo previously unsubsequently in his career, was always looking

1581
01:25:51,360 --> 01:25:54,160
Speaker 1: for that dark cloud. It became my job to convince

1582
01:25:54,200 --> 01:25:56,040
Speaker 1: him that it was a challenge to do what Gregory

1583
01:25:56,080 --> 01:25:59,000
Speaker 1: Peck and Jimmy Stewart did in previous generations, which is

1584
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:01,480
Speaker 1: to stand there and be strong and hold the audience's

1585
01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:04,240
Speaker 1: eye without seeming to do very much. It was only

1586
01:26:04,280 --> 01:26:06,160
Speaker 1: when I could vince him that was actually a harder

1587
01:26:06,160 --> 01:26:08,600
Speaker 1: thing to do that he got excited. They had, but

1588
01:26:08,720 --> 01:26:11,519
Speaker 1: Cameron described as quote a cathartic moment when we both

1589
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:13,360
Speaker 1: just sat at my trailer and talked for a couple

1590
01:26:13,360 --> 01:26:15,320
Speaker 1: of hours, and we hugged at the end and went

1591
01:26:15,360 --> 01:26:17,920
Speaker 1: back to work. Leo may have wanted to play a

1592
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:20,519
Speaker 1: tortured character, but he soon discovered that he get all

1593
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:22,719
Speaker 1: the torturing he desired. On the set of this movie,

1594
01:26:23,080 --> 01:26:27,000
Speaker 1: fourteen hour days with seventy to ninety work weeks were rough, though,

1595
01:26:27,040 --> 01:26:29,760
Speaker 1: as we'll discuss, Kate Winslet had an even tougher job,

1596
01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:33,960
Speaker 1: but Leo handled it far worse. While filming the first

1597
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:36,760
Speaker 1: class dinner party scene, in which his character coins the

1598
01:26:36,760 --> 01:26:39,280
Speaker 1: phrase make it count to a bunch of upper class snobs,

1599
01:26:39,680 --> 01:26:42,599
Speaker 1: Leo reportedly leaned over to Kathy Bates, his co star,

1600
01:26:43,080 --> 01:26:45,519
Speaker 1: pointed at the cutlery that her character just showing him

1601
01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:47,600
Speaker 1: how to use, and asked, which one of these do

1602
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:51,760
Speaker 1: I use to lobotomize myself? Funny considering he would later

1603
01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:54,160
Speaker 1: play a character who ends his film spoiler alert by

1604
01:26:54,160 --> 01:27:00,400
Speaker 1: getting a lobotomy in Shutter Island. Oh yeahity fair article

1605
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:02,800
Speaker 1: to pick him as not especially chipper wall on the

1606
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:07,800
Speaker 1: giant Titanic set in Mexico. To quote this article, DiCaprio

1607
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:11,000
Speaker 1: was sick of the brown lands, the Mariachi merriment, and

1608
01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:15,280
Speaker 1: Cameron's big tub. So one day he way, I guess

1609
01:27:15,280 --> 01:27:18,040
Speaker 1: even better. So one day he ambled over to the set,

1610
01:27:18,360 --> 01:27:20,760
Speaker 1: took a good look at the four sound stages, the

1611
01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:25,080
Speaker 1: seventeen million gallon water tank, the smokestacks rising majestically against

1612
01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:28,439
Speaker 1: the sky, the hordes of extras running around in period clothes,

1613
01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:33,120
Speaker 1: and thought, this is bullshit. It's even funny again if

1614
01:27:33,160 --> 01:27:37,920
Speaker 1: you pipe in the James horners. Ah, this is bullshit.

1615
01:27:38,880 --> 01:27:41,960
Speaker 1: I mean this, as a Titanic obsessive, this offends me

1616
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:44,040
Speaker 1: to my core. I mean, you're walking around the full

1617
01:27:44,040 --> 01:27:48,000
Speaker 1: scale replica of the Titanic. But I mean he's he's

1618
01:27:48,320 --> 01:27:52,880
Speaker 1: rich on young, not a nerd. Yeah, on top of

1619
01:27:52,920 --> 01:27:56,479
Speaker 1: the proverbial world and women throwing themselves his feet Like,

1620
01:27:57,160 --> 01:27:59,080
Speaker 1: I get it. I mean, it doesn't make him any

1621
01:27:59,160 --> 01:28:02,639
Speaker 1: less of a ship. I get in. He apparently blew

1622
01:28:02,680 --> 01:28:04,880
Speaker 1: off steam by going to a local club near the

1623
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:07,640
Speaker 1: set called the Rock and Roll Taco related to the

1624
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:11,800
Speaker 1: Bottom Storm, where he and his crew were thrown out

1625
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:16,760
Speaker 1: for dancing inappropriately. Tremendous, but in his defense, he had

1626
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:20,439
Speaker 1: a scary moment on the set involving his beloved pet lizard. Lizard.

1627
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:24,599
Speaker 1: He apparently would bring this lizard onto the set, which

1628
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:29,080
Speaker 1: is questionable behavior on the best of occasions, but especially

1629
01:28:29,080 --> 01:28:32,160
Speaker 1: when the set in question is a miniature city recreating

1630
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:35,080
Speaker 1: one of the most famous maritime disasters in history. The

1631
01:28:35,120 --> 01:28:39,120
Speaker 1: pet lizard was accidentally run down by a truck during filming.

1632
01:28:39,479 --> 01:28:42,640
Speaker 1: Imagine being that driver. How screwed would you be? How

1633
01:28:42,720 --> 01:28:46,919
Speaker 1: quickly do you think Cameron fired him? But thankfully bluezard

1634
01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:49,280
Speaker 1: the lizard was not killed and Leo was able to

1635
01:28:49,360 --> 01:28:51,280
Speaker 1: nurse him back to health. Trying to find out what

1636
01:28:51,320 --> 01:28:54,200
Speaker 1: kind of lizard it was. I think it was like

1637
01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:57,519
Speaker 1: fan pictures of him from like Tiger Beat or seventeen

1638
01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:02,599
Speaker 1: or something. Yeah, yeah, there are the lizard. Yeah. Another

1639
01:29:02,600 --> 01:29:05,080
Speaker 1: favorite activity to blow off steam, although this is a

1640
01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:08,240
Speaker 1: bit more literal. Was too far into his jacket and

1641
01:29:08,280 --> 01:29:12,120
Speaker 1: then sweep it over Kate wins Let's face, charming, disgusting.

1642
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:16,920
Speaker 1: A bearded dragon oh, I thought that. I thought that

1643
01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:22,800
Speaker 1: was the term for Oh yeah, they're called a bearded dragon.

1644
01:29:23,720 --> 01:29:25,320
Speaker 1: That was the Cleveland Steamer. But I guess it's a

1645
01:29:25,360 --> 01:29:35,000
Speaker 1: bearded dragon. Okay, as James friend of the pod Cleveland Steamer, well,

1646
01:29:35,040 --> 01:29:37,839
Speaker 1: I keep that in. I don't know, As James Cameron

1647
01:29:37,920 --> 01:29:41,439
Speaker 1: quite rightly said the Rolling Stone, if anybody else in

1648
01:29:41,439 --> 01:29:43,599
Speaker 1: the world did that, they get slapped and the other

1649
01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:45,600
Speaker 1: person would walk away and not talk to them for

1650
01:29:45,640 --> 01:29:49,439
Speaker 1: a week. With Leo, Kate would just crack up. Actor

1651
01:29:49,439 --> 01:29:51,880
Speaker 1: Billy Zane, who played cal said in the same interview

1652
01:29:51,880 --> 01:29:55,280
Speaker 1: with Rolling Stone, grossing out Kate was purely Leo's job.

1653
01:29:55,439 --> 01:29:58,040
Speaker 1: He was really good at it. Obviously, they were very

1654
01:29:58,120 --> 01:30:00,320
Speaker 1: chummy on the set, striking up a brother at least

1655
01:30:00,360 --> 01:30:04,639
Speaker 1: sisterly relationship. Um. Actually, I immediately regret that analogy given

1656
01:30:04,680 --> 01:30:08,280
Speaker 1: this next anecdote. Kate and Leo passed the time between

1657
01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:11,920
Speaker 1: takes swapping sex tips. Uh. Kate said in a Rolling

1658
01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:14,400
Speaker 1: Stone profile that they would curl up under a blanket

1659
01:30:14,400 --> 01:30:18,000
Speaker 1: in his trailer and discuss quote, very very personal things,

1660
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:21,800
Speaker 1: asking each other for advice, not necessarily comparing notes, but

1661
01:30:21,920 --> 01:30:24,280
Speaker 1: sort of no, no, don't do it like that, do

1662
01:30:24,360 --> 01:30:27,120
Speaker 1: it like this. He's very good at that. I have

1663
01:30:27,240 --> 01:30:29,200
Speaker 1: to say a lot of those sexual tips he's given

1664
01:30:29,240 --> 01:30:33,280
Speaker 1: me of work, and I know it's vice versa, so

1665
01:30:33,360 --> 01:30:38,320
Speaker 1: that's that's something that's something in addition to their salary um.

1666
01:30:38,439 --> 01:30:41,200
Speaker 1: Their relationship is very cute, though. When the production spent

1667
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:44,519
Speaker 1: weeks shooting Kate in these really dangerous water scenes, Leo

1668
01:30:44,600 --> 01:30:46,800
Speaker 1: always kept an eye on her and was really quick

1669
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:48,840
Speaker 1: to swoop in and help if anything had gone awry.

1670
01:30:49,240 --> 01:30:51,439
Speaker 1: Kate later said, when we did all the underwater footage

1671
01:30:51,439 --> 01:30:53,920
Speaker 1: at the end, Leo was a certified scuba diver at

1672
01:30:53,960 --> 01:30:55,720
Speaker 1: that point and I was not, and he really did

1673
01:30:55,720 --> 01:30:58,599
Speaker 1: look after me. He was totally brilliant. He wouldn't leave

1674
01:30:58,640 --> 01:31:02,519
Speaker 1: my side. And apparently they're still close and even quote

1675
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:04,960
Speaker 1: Titanic lines back and forth to one another in their

1676
01:31:05,000 --> 01:31:09,160
Speaker 1: text threads, which I find adorable. Of course you do.

1677
01:31:09,880 --> 01:31:13,000
Speaker 1: But despite this, Leo was not exactly thrilled with his

1678
01:31:13,040 --> 01:31:16,960
Speaker 1: experience making this movie, notably skipping the Oscars ceremony even

1679
01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:20,920
Speaker 1: though Titanic was up for Historic fourteen nominations. He told

1680
01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:22,760
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair in the lead up to the film's release,

1681
01:31:24,120 --> 01:31:26,400
Speaker 1: after the whole experience, I know it's not my cup

1682
01:31:26,439 --> 01:31:28,880
Speaker 1: of tea, all respect the Jim and all the actors

1683
01:31:28,920 --> 01:31:35,559
Speaker 1: who do that type of thing. M but he did

1684
01:31:35,600 --> 01:31:38,920
Speaker 1: seem to warm to it. In later years, in the

1685
01:31:38,960 --> 01:31:42,080
Speaker 1: hundredth anniversary of the Titanic sinking, James Cameron had the

1686
01:31:42,120 --> 01:31:45,240
Speaker 1: movie reformatted into three D, which is craze that he

1687
01:31:45,280 --> 01:31:48,840
Speaker 1: basically jumped started with Avatar. I invited Leo over to

1688
01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:51,120
Speaker 1: watch some of it, and Cameron said, we had a

1689
01:31:51,160 --> 01:31:53,840
Speaker 1: good reminiscence, and of course he was the following at

1690
01:31:53,840 --> 01:31:55,720
Speaker 1: what a kiddie was in the movie. I think he

1691
01:31:55,720 --> 01:31:57,400
Speaker 1: hadn't seen it in a while, and seeing it on

1692
01:31:57,439 --> 01:31:59,760
Speaker 1: a big screen, he was literally just snorting into his

1693
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:02,560
Speaker 1: hand as at one point. So that's the image I

1694
01:32:02,640 --> 01:32:04,240
Speaker 1: choose to keep in my heart of Leo and his

1695
01:32:04,280 --> 01:32:08,400
Speaker 1: relationship to Titanic, just older, wiser sitting next to James

1696
01:32:08,520 --> 01:32:14,040
Speaker 1: Cameron with a begrudging acceptance falling into his hands. Uh.

1697
01:32:14,080 --> 01:32:17,879
Speaker 1: Speaking of Leonardo DiCaprio, there is a fascinating, if slightly

1698
01:32:17,920 --> 01:32:22,639
Speaker 1: tragic profile of his body double in the film Vanity

1699
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:26,360
Speaker 1: Fair did this in pieces called Being Leo. For those

1700
01:32:26,360 --> 01:32:28,839
Speaker 1: of you who don't know, body doubles are just essentially

1701
01:32:28,960 --> 01:32:31,679
Speaker 1: stand ins while production is setting up shots and sort

1702
01:32:31,680 --> 01:32:35,040
Speaker 1: of fine tuning camera movements and everything. They just stand

1703
01:32:35,160 --> 01:32:38,240
Speaker 1: in the actor's places, so you don't have highly paid

1704
01:32:38,280 --> 01:32:41,360
Speaker 1: and very delicate actors just you know, grinding their knees

1705
01:32:41,360 --> 01:32:44,639
Speaker 1: away standing in place on sets. If there's a shot

1706
01:32:44,680 --> 01:32:47,360
Speaker 1: in the film where you see Jack but not his face,

1707
01:32:47,439 --> 01:32:49,799
Speaker 1: it is more than likely a gentleman named Brett Baker,

1708
01:32:50,280 --> 01:32:52,679
Speaker 1: who is actually three inches shorter and a few years

1709
01:32:52,720 --> 01:32:55,840
Speaker 1: older than Leo, but had similar hair and a similar build.

1710
01:32:56,240 --> 01:32:59,400
Speaker 1: To quote the piece, these actors endure the boring parts

1711
01:32:59,400 --> 01:33:01,559
Speaker 1: of a shoot so that the big names don't have to.

1712
01:33:01,960 --> 01:33:04,240
Speaker 1: They're like stunt doubles, except that the stunt is to

1713
01:33:04,360 --> 01:33:06,880
Speaker 1: just kind of stand there, and the only danger is

1714
01:33:06,960 --> 01:33:11,760
Speaker 1: dying of crushing boredom. Uh. The article details Baker's non

1715
01:33:11,800 --> 01:33:15,120
Speaker 1: relationship with Leo and Kate Uh. He first met Kate

1716
01:33:15,160 --> 01:33:18,599
Speaker 1: on the famous Grand staircase by the Bronze Cherub. They

1717
01:33:18,640 --> 01:33:21,960
Speaker 1: went weeks without being properly introduced before this poor guy,

1718
01:33:21,960 --> 01:33:24,240
Speaker 1: I was like, can we just can I meet? Can

1719
01:33:24,560 --> 01:33:28,240
Speaker 1: can you actually tell her my name? Things with Leo

1720
01:33:28,320 --> 01:33:31,280
Speaker 1: weren't any tighter. Privately, I hoped Leo would invite me

1721
01:33:31,280 --> 01:33:33,920
Speaker 1: out for a beer with some of his friends, again

1722
01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:39,240
Speaker 1: poward narrative voice he did not. The piece hilariously and

1723
01:33:39,280 --> 01:33:43,679
Speaker 1: tragically describes Baker as the film's most low tech special effect.

1724
01:33:45,160 --> 01:33:48,160
Speaker 1: But if you're interested in the sad world of Hollywood

1725
01:33:48,200 --> 01:33:51,400
Speaker 1: stand ins, go ahead and check that out. But it

1726
01:33:51,439 --> 01:33:53,280
Speaker 1: also has some good stories from the set. But it

1727
01:33:53,360 --> 01:33:57,120
Speaker 1: is sad because this guy wasn't even credited um and

1728
01:33:57,400 --> 01:33:59,240
Speaker 1: no one knows who he is. As he says in

1729
01:33:59,240 --> 01:34:01,920
Speaker 1: the piece, Baker said, to be honest, it's painful and humbling.

1730
01:34:02,080 --> 01:34:04,559
Speaker 1: If art is created and no one sees it, was

1731
01:34:04,560 --> 01:34:08,800
Speaker 1: it really creative? If a body double is done in

1732
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:13,120
Speaker 1: a reverse shot in a forest and no one's around. Uh.

1733
01:34:13,400 --> 01:34:15,679
Speaker 1: The end of the article by writer Darren King said,

1734
01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:18,240
Speaker 1: Baker doesn't want to come across as bitter or jaded.

1735
01:34:18,439 --> 01:34:20,160
Speaker 1: He's never told the full story of his time on

1736
01:34:20,160 --> 01:34:22,960
Speaker 1: Titanic before, preferring to focus his energies in the future.

1737
01:34:23,400 --> 01:34:25,840
Speaker 1: He hasn't watched Titanic since the casting crew premiere in

1738
01:34:25,920 --> 01:34:29,040
Speaker 1: l A, when what was meant to be a celebratory

1739
01:34:29,080 --> 01:34:32,200
Speaker 1: occasion broke his heart all over again. As he scanned

1740
01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:34,679
Speaker 1: the credits, he realized, with what can only be described

1741
01:34:34,720 --> 01:34:38,680
Speaker 1: as a sinking feeling. Hey, that's not the piece. Uh

1742
01:34:38,800 --> 01:34:41,240
Speaker 1: that his name was nowhere to be found, So that

1743
01:34:41,439 --> 01:34:44,479
Speaker 1: is sad. But let's pour one out for body double

1744
01:34:44,680 --> 01:34:47,160
Speaker 1: Brett Baker here and thank him for this work on

1745
01:34:47,200 --> 01:34:50,920
Speaker 1: your beloved large boat. Brett Baker, you are now friend

1746
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:53,760
Speaker 1: of the pod, friend of the proud Brett Baker. What's

1747
01:34:53,760 --> 01:34:57,880
Speaker 1: that guy up to? He's he moved a porn Brett

1748
01:34:58,000 --> 01:35:03,280
Speaker 1: Baker IMDb he later played Jesus. Uh No, there's like

1749
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:08,800
Speaker 1: seventeen Bret Bakers. I mean apparently if he's not credited Entitanic,

1750
01:35:08,840 --> 01:35:12,080
Speaker 1: he doesn't have an IMDb credit for it, so it's

1751
01:35:12,479 --> 01:35:17,559
Speaker 1: kind of impossible trackdown. Yeah, they're oh no, Well, according

1752
01:35:17,600 --> 01:35:22,040
Speaker 1: to his own IMDb bio, which he wrote, oh good,

1753
01:35:22,240 --> 01:35:24,120
Speaker 1: he's one of five performers in the US to receive

1754
01:35:24,160 --> 01:35:27,080
Speaker 1: an International Acting Scholarship to study at the Royal National

1755
01:35:27,120 --> 01:35:29,759
Speaker 1: Theater and the Old VIC under the patronage of Anthony Hopkins.

1756
01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:32,360
Speaker 1: Did he have to do it all with the back

1757
01:35:32,360 --> 01:35:36,760
Speaker 1: of his head face in the audience. He's still working, okay,

1758
01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:43,120
Speaker 1: you know, Bret Baker's doing okay maybe anyway? Uh, and

1759
01:35:43,280 --> 01:35:46,479
Speaker 1: the rest, Billy Zane, you know who is supposed to

1760
01:35:46,479 --> 01:35:50,599
Speaker 1: be great on the set. Billy Zane Another Canadian reference

1761
01:35:50,680 --> 01:35:55,800
Speaker 1: name for James Cameron. The name Caldon Hockley derives from

1762
01:35:55,840 --> 01:35:58,800
Speaker 1: the two small towns near Ontario where James Cameron's aunt

1763
01:35:58,800 --> 01:36:02,880
Speaker 1: and uncle live. Roblow, Rupert Evert, Peter Green not the

1764
01:36:03,160 --> 01:36:07,400
Speaker 1: Fleetwood Mac guitarist, and Pierce Brasen. Wait, Peter Green the

1765
01:36:07,479 --> 01:36:11,800
Speaker 1: bad guy in the mask? I think so the Weasley guy. God,

1766
01:36:11,800 --> 01:36:13,519
Speaker 1: that would have been chilling. He would have been stopped

1767
01:36:13,520 --> 01:36:17,639
Speaker 1: being just a handsome jerk in like an outright sociopath. Uh.

1768
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:20,280
Speaker 1: Pierce Brasen all reportedly in the running to play cow

1769
01:36:20,400 --> 01:36:23,320
Speaker 1: As again was Matthew McConaughey. You said he turned it down.

1770
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:25,400
Speaker 1: He was sad about not getting Jack, so he turned

1771
01:36:25,400 --> 01:36:27,160
Speaker 1: down the role out of maybe maybe that was it.

1772
01:36:27,240 --> 01:36:30,640
Speaker 1: I've seen multiple and James Cameron is not confirmed to

1773
01:36:30,680 --> 01:36:34,400
Speaker 1: deny it, so tough to say. Who's to say. Bizarrely enough,

1774
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:37,360
Speaker 1: James Cameron apparently wanted to cast Billy's a because he

1775
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:40,560
Speaker 1: was impressed with his performance in the nine six superhero

1776
01:36:40,560 --> 01:36:43,400
Speaker 1: movie The Phantom, in which is An is wearing a

1777
01:36:43,439 --> 01:36:46,960
Speaker 1: purple skin tight body suit the entire time I remember

1778
01:36:46,960 --> 01:36:49,000
Speaker 1: when that movie came out that was doing that weird

1779
01:36:49,080 --> 01:36:51,280
Speaker 1: vogue in the nineties when you were doing like they would.

1780
01:36:51,920 --> 01:36:55,320
Speaker 1: They're resurrecting all these Golden Age superhero properties to try

1781
01:36:55,360 --> 01:36:57,640
Speaker 1: and cash in on the Batman stuff, like when we

1782
01:36:57,680 --> 01:37:03,320
Speaker 1: got Alec Baldwin doing the Shadow. Yeah. Anyway, Um, Billy's

1783
01:37:03,320 --> 01:37:07,479
Speaker 1: Ane wore a wig because he was bald You don't

1784
01:37:07,520 --> 01:37:11,920
Speaker 1: really sell that that well, Bill, He's ain't wore a

1785
01:37:11,920 --> 01:37:18,120
Speaker 1: wig because he was come on, um yeah. And and

1786
01:37:18,800 --> 01:37:23,040
Speaker 1: from the well spring of Calden Hockley sprung Billy Zane's

1787
01:37:23,160 --> 01:37:26,840
Speaker 1: entire later career of just kind of being a dick um.

1788
01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:29,960
Speaker 1: He quoted James Bond author Ian Fleming saying, this is

1789
01:37:29,960 --> 01:37:33,320
Speaker 1: a mink lined cell. Do. I wish I was playing

1790
01:37:33,360 --> 01:37:36,280
Speaker 1: more white hat hero roles all the time, But I'm

1791
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:40,000
Speaker 1: actually making that happen by developing my own material. So

1792
01:37:40,760 --> 01:37:46,800
Speaker 1: stay tuned for that, folks. Uh. I think that that

1793
01:37:46,880 --> 01:37:52,599
Speaker 1: interviews from like five years ago, still waiting with bated

1794
01:37:52,600 --> 01:37:56,040
Speaker 1: breath for Billy Zanes. I have nothing wrong with his bill.

1795
01:37:57,200 --> 01:37:59,400
Speaker 1: It was wonderful and all the making up special it's

1796
01:37:59,439 --> 01:38:02,600
Speaker 1: just the best. It's it's just my favorite line from Zoolander.

1797
01:38:02,720 --> 01:38:04,439
Speaker 1: You should listen to your friend Philly Zay and he's

1798
01:38:04,439 --> 01:38:10,559
Speaker 1: a cool dude. He's trying to help you. Um. Francis

1799
01:38:10,600 --> 01:38:14,559
Speaker 1: Fisher was actually cast as Rose's mother, Ruth, but we

1800
01:38:14,640 --> 01:38:18,519
Speaker 1: have to talk about Cathy Bates as the other mom.

1801
01:38:18,640 --> 01:38:22,400
Speaker 1: Car is the mom character for for for Leo for Leo. Yes,

1802
01:38:22,439 --> 01:38:27,280
Speaker 1: the unsinkable Molly Brown. No one called her that. She

1803
01:38:27,439 --> 01:38:29,720
Speaker 1: was known as Margaret or Maggie to her friends at

1804
01:38:29,760 --> 01:38:32,840
Speaker 1: the time. She didn't earn her nickname until after her death.

1805
01:38:32,880 --> 01:38:36,960
Speaker 1: Apparently why her friends called her Margaret, I don't know

1806
01:38:37,000 --> 01:38:39,479
Speaker 1: why they started calling her Molly after she died. No idea.

1807
01:38:39,960 --> 01:38:43,720
Speaker 1: M uh. Molly Brown was also credited with inventing, or

1808
01:38:43,720 --> 01:38:48,280
Speaker 1: at least popularizing, the buffet friend of the pod, the

1809
01:38:48,320 --> 01:38:55,439
Speaker 1: buffet um, how do they've been that? Whatever? I'm gonna

1810
01:38:55,479 --> 01:38:58,880
Speaker 1: look that up. I trust you, I trust you. That

1811
01:38:58,920 --> 01:39:03,160
Speaker 1: part was originally offered to Reba McIntyre. Love Reba, I

1812
01:39:03,280 --> 01:39:06,680
Speaker 1: just love a brassy country lady. She was gonna do

1813
01:39:06,720 --> 01:39:08,720
Speaker 1: it until shooting delays meant that she wasn't needed on

1814
01:39:08,720 --> 01:39:11,960
Speaker 1: the set until months later than initially planned, and unfortunately

1815
01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:14,439
Speaker 1: she was on tour and had to back out. She

1816
01:39:14,479 --> 01:39:16,559
Speaker 1: talked about that on an episode of Watch What Happens

1817
01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:19,200
Speaker 1: Live with Andy Cohen, during which she admitted she was bummed,

1818
01:39:19,600 --> 01:39:21,560
Speaker 1: but hasten to add, You've got to take care of

1819
01:39:21,640 --> 01:39:25,240
Speaker 1: your people, m hm. So they turned to Kathy Bates.

1820
01:39:25,800 --> 01:39:28,759
Speaker 1: Fox apparently bulked at her requested fee of five hundred grands,

1821
01:39:28,760 --> 01:39:31,080
Speaker 1: so James Cameron shout out a hundred and fifty grand

1822
01:39:31,120 --> 01:39:34,120
Speaker 1: of his own money to get Kathy Bates in the film.

1823
01:39:34,280 --> 01:39:37,439
Speaker 1: Fox would pony up two million to send James Cameron

1824
01:39:37,479 --> 01:39:41,120
Speaker 1: on death drives down to the Titanic with a bunch

1825
01:39:41,160 --> 01:39:43,679
Speaker 1: of Russians, and they wouldn't give a hundred and fifty

1826
01:39:43,680 --> 01:39:49,480
Speaker 1: grand to Kathy Bates oscar winning Kathy Bates oh disrespect

1827
01:39:50,600 --> 01:39:53,720
Speaker 1: for the role of Captain Edward James Smith famously on

1828
01:39:53,800 --> 01:39:58,880
Speaker 1: his final voyage before he intended to retire. Uh is

1829
01:39:58,920 --> 01:40:01,120
Speaker 1: that where this trope comes from? Just one more big

1830
01:40:01,200 --> 01:40:02,880
Speaker 1: one more Now, it's got to be a troope since

1831
01:40:02,920 --> 01:40:05,519
Speaker 1: before that. Two more days to retirement, one last big

1832
01:40:05,520 --> 01:40:09,719
Speaker 1: score before I retire, one large, one more large boat,

1833
01:40:09,760 --> 01:40:13,680
Speaker 1: one more season. Cameron cast British character actor Bernard Hill

1834
01:40:13,760 --> 01:40:17,680
Speaker 1: Bernard I assume Bernard Hill, who would later appear in

1835
01:40:17,680 --> 01:40:21,440
Speaker 1: the Lord of the Rings movie is King theoden't, But shockingly,

1836
01:40:21,680 --> 01:40:27,600
Speaker 1: Cameron initially approached Robert de Niro, which is hilarious. Just

1837
01:40:27,720 --> 01:40:31,320
Speaker 1: imagine him be all squinty and tight lipped at the

1838
01:40:31,360 --> 01:40:33,400
Speaker 1: big wheel of a ship. I have a theory. I

1839
01:40:33,439 --> 01:40:35,360
Speaker 1: have a theory about this. Can I tell you my theory?

1840
01:40:35,520 --> 01:40:37,960
Speaker 1: Please please? I think it was employed by James Cameron

1841
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:40,360
Speaker 1: to try to get Leo, who thought that this movie

1842
01:40:40,400 --> 01:40:43,280
Speaker 1: didn't have any prestige, and just was like, Hey, de Niro,

1843
01:40:43,520 --> 01:40:45,760
Speaker 1: can you like just say that you're going out for

1844
01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:47,679
Speaker 1: this and maybe I'll get this guy like, don't worry,

1845
01:40:47,720 --> 01:40:50,200
Speaker 1: I won't actually like make you do this. Showed up

1846
01:40:50,240 --> 01:40:57,200
Speaker 1: in the trades or whatever, and that's where Leo was like, oh, suddenly, prestige. Interesting.

1847
01:40:57,520 --> 01:41:00,960
Speaker 1: I love that, especially because Dinire the reason for turning

1848
01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:05,800
Speaker 1: this down is so absurd. The stomach ache, Yeah, a

1849
01:41:05,920 --> 01:41:11,000
Speaker 1: gastro intestinal infection, to quote the Mirror, but he ate

1850
01:41:11,040 --> 01:41:14,000
Speaker 1: too much at Nobu. It's like, I can't do your

1851
01:41:14,000 --> 01:41:16,080
Speaker 1: movie now I have a tummy ache, James, I can't

1852
01:41:16,080 --> 01:41:18,679
Speaker 1: do your movie. Sorry. This is around the same time

1853
01:41:18,680 --> 01:41:21,920
Speaker 1: that I was dressing up as Captain Smith. Yeah, and

1854
01:41:21,960 --> 01:41:23,880
Speaker 1: It was also around this time that I was faking

1855
01:41:23,880 --> 01:41:25,720
Speaker 1: stomach ailments to get out of stuff that I didn't

1856
01:41:25,760 --> 01:41:29,080
Speaker 1: want to do so I could stay home and truth

1857
01:41:29,160 --> 01:41:33,880
Speaker 1: be told. Read my Titanic books. Well, folks, it's time

1858
01:41:33,920 --> 01:41:36,120
Speaker 1: to wrap it up for today. I think this episode

1859
01:41:36,160 --> 01:41:39,880
Speaker 1: is probably the length of the full Titanic movie, just

1860
01:41:40,000 --> 01:41:43,720
Speaker 1: part one. Yeah, Highchael, you're still with us. How do

1861
01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:47,000
Speaker 1: you think does this I gotta ask, does this episode

1862
01:41:47,040 --> 01:41:51,439
Speaker 1: give you a begrudging admiration for James Cameron. I have

1863
01:41:51,520 --> 01:41:53,760
Speaker 1: nothing against James Cameron. I think he's just a I

1864
01:41:54,120 --> 01:41:58,320
Speaker 1: think he's just an asshole, and I don't think Yeah,

1865
01:41:58,400 --> 01:42:01,680
Speaker 1: I don't think he would. I don't can debate that. No,

1866
01:42:01,840 --> 01:42:05,800
Speaker 1: you're right, you're right. All right, Well, we will pick

1867
01:42:05,840 --> 01:42:08,040
Speaker 1: back up with the story in part two of our

1868
01:42:08,120 --> 01:42:11,400
Speaker 1: t M I Titanic Epic. You truly have not seen

1869
01:42:11,800 --> 01:42:14,959
Speaker 1: nothing yet when it comes to James Cameron's James Camerons.

1870
01:42:15,120 --> 01:42:18,880
Speaker 1: You thought PCP was bad? Yeah, yeah, So please join

1871
01:42:18,960 --> 01:42:22,519
Speaker 1: us for part two. I beg of you. Tell your

1872
01:42:22,520 --> 01:42:24,400
Speaker 1: friends they'll love it, Tell your enemies they'll hate it.

1873
01:42:26,320 --> 01:42:29,160
Speaker 1: This has been too much information. I'm Alex Hegel and

1874
01:42:29,240 --> 01:42:31,600
Speaker 1: I'm Jordan run Talk, We'll catch you next time for

1875
01:42:31,680 --> 01:42:38,120
Speaker 1: part two of Everything You Didn't Know about James Cameron's Titanic.

1876
01:42:40,479 --> 01:42:43,040
Speaker 1: Too Much Information was a production of I Heart Radio.

1877
01:42:43,200 --> 01:42:46,400
Speaker 1: The show's executive producers are Noel Brown and Jordan run Talk.

1878
01:42:46,640 --> 01:42:50,080
Speaker 1: The show's supervising producer is Michael Alder June. The show

1879
01:42:50,160 --> 01:42:52,960
Speaker 1: was researched, written, and hosted by Jordan run Talk and

1880
01:42:53,000 --> 01:42:56,040
Speaker 1: Alex Hegel, with original music by Seth Applebaum and a

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Speaker 1: Ghost Funk orchestra. If you like what you heard, please

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.