Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey everyone, today we have Sharon van Etton on
Speaker 1: the show, the singer songwriter who Pitchfork recently crowned an
Speaker 1: indie rock institution. Van Etton was discovered in the early
Speaker 1: OTTs after performing at Open Mike's in Manhattan's Lower East Side.
Speaker 1: Her two thousand and nine debut album, Because I Was
Speaker 1: In Love was written as a way to process surviving
Speaker 1: a violent crime and an abusive relationship in her twenties.
Speaker 1: Over the next few years, Sharon continued her journey in music,
Speaker 1: releasing albums and touring internationally until on a whim around
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, she auditioned for the Netflix show The Oa,
Speaker 1: landing a major role despite having no previous acting experience.
Speaker 1: In May, van Etton released her critically acclaimed sixth album,
Speaker 1: We've been Going about This All Wrong. In my opinion,
Speaker 1: it's her best. It's an album dedicated to the collective
Speaker 1: trauma amassed in the lead up to the Pandemic and beyond.
Speaker 1: On today's episode, Broken Record producer Leah Rose talks to
Speaker 1: Sharon Vanetton about some of those pandemic issues, like recording
Speaker 1: her new album in her LA based home studio during lockdown.
Speaker 1: While attempting to balance domestic life. Sharon also explains how
Speaker 1: her inner Jersey Girl comes out on stage and while
Speaker 1: wearing leather pants and heels on stage post pandemic feels
Speaker 1: so daunting. This is broken record liner notes for the
Speaker 1: digital age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's Leah Rose with Sharon Vanetton.
Speaker 1: Your new album, it's a pandemic album, but it's also
Speaker 1: a forced domesticity album. You record it at home, you
Speaker 1: have a studio at home, But that must have been
Speaker 1: a completely different experience on top of the pandemic, on
Speaker 1: top of you know, what was going on politically, on
Speaker 1: top of wildfires, on top of being a mom, a partner.
Speaker 1: How did the situation at home influence the recording? Well,
Speaker 1: you know, as a mom, you know that you find
Speaker 1: the moments you can to make shit happen. You know,
Speaker 1: like I have thirty minutes to make some magic. I'm
Speaker 1: going to go in there. I'm going to do the
Speaker 1: best that I can. And you set realistic goals for yourself.
Speaker 1: And when you have to be able to ask permission,
Speaker 1: when you really need to be the one that works
Speaker 1: more than the other, like today's today, I really need
Speaker 1: to be in there. I'm hitting a stride here, and
Speaker 1: you know, my partner has pretty set hours in his day, meetings, meeting, zoom,
Speaker 1: zoom zoom, and in New York, I didn't have a
Speaker 1: dedicated studio for myself, so in that way it was
Speaker 1: for the better. It was in my garage, going through
Speaker 1: my back in my backyard, so I was able to
Speaker 1: most of the time if I needed to go in there,
Speaker 1: I could. If I needed to put my kid on
Speaker 1: the TV in order for myself to work for an
Speaker 1: extra hour, I would. Most of the time he was
Speaker 1: outside skating, and on early demos, you can probably hear
Speaker 1: him in the yard, and there's a window for my
Speaker 1: studio looking out, so I could see him going back
Speaker 1: and forth. And sometimes he would sit in there with
Speaker 1: me if I was just working on lyrics, and he
Speaker 1: would play the drums, and you know, other times I
Speaker 1: could just be reading to disconnect from an emotional place
Speaker 1: that took me too far, and we'd be hanging out
Speaker 1: in the living room just like talking and reading. But
Speaker 1: you just find whatever moments of inspiration you need. You know,
Speaker 1: do lyrics or do melodies come to you sort of
Speaker 1: like a flash of lightning, like you have to like
Speaker 1: go in and capture it, or is it something you
Speaker 1: can just sort of like work up and start with
Speaker 1: more like vowel sounds or guttural sounds and it turns
Speaker 1: into something. I mean, most of the time, melodies come
Speaker 1: as soon as I sit down to something, whether it
Speaker 1: be a piano guitar. Lyrics come way later, but I
Speaker 1: tend to sit down and create a chord progression and
Speaker 1: a melody, and I'll once I get from point A
Speaker 1: and point B, maybe there's a C. I don't always
Speaker 1: believe in the C, but I think if I find
Speaker 1: something interesting that can at least go to those places,
Speaker 1: I'll hit record and just let myself sing stream of
Speaker 1: consciously for about ten fifteen minutes, and I'll let myself
Speaker 1: wander melodically and see what it is that I find.
Speaker 1: And most of the time I just hit stop and
Speaker 1: I move on to the next thing, and I don't
Speaker 1: think about that too much, and I see if I
Speaker 1: can find another melodic idea on a different instrument. Sometimes
Speaker 1: two or three of those ideas in the same day
Speaker 1: ended up end up being married later on. Sometimes there
Speaker 1: are three different songs. Sometimes it's three pieces of garbage,
Speaker 1: but on moments where I can't even play an instrument
Speaker 1: and hear a melody. I go back to those songs
Speaker 1: and I listened back and pull out words and phrases
Speaker 1: and try to remember what it was I was going through,
Speaker 1: and then I'll shape words around them. On the rare occasion,
Speaker 1: the words just come out. Like the song Darkest came
Speaker 1: out in one sitting, and I just I let it
Speaker 1: live on its own. There's no like verse chorus situation.
Speaker 1: I don't know what that is, but it's like one
Speaker 1: solid piece and I don't know where it came from,
Speaker 1: but it just came out of thin air. What point
Speaker 1: in the pandemic did that come? That one was the
Speaker 1: probably the only one that was fully realized before the album.
Speaker 1: But I didn't want to put it on my last
Speaker 1: record because I thought it was too apocalyptic. And it
Speaker 1: was on a demo on my phone and you could
Speaker 1: hear the birds chirping through the windows, and I saved
Speaker 1: it and I put it in this folder because I
Speaker 1: thought it was just too dark for the context of
Speaker 1: the songs. And then this song kept coming up and
Speaker 1: the demos that I wanted to work on, and you know,
Speaker 1: I ended up rerecording that one in the studio. But
Speaker 1: the one thing I didn't want to lose was the birds,
Speaker 1: because there was this point in LA when people stopped
Speaker 1: driving and the sky turned blue and so many birds
Speaker 1: started coming out, And in the midst of what I
Speaker 1: thought was the end of the world, nature was coming back,
Speaker 1: and it gave me this moment. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you experienced the same thing, but in the midst of
Speaker 1: all this chaos and these fires and the earthquakes, I
Speaker 1: heard the birds and it made me remember this demo,
Speaker 1: and I thought, with how intense all my other songs are,
Speaker 1: this song now feels light and I don't want to
Speaker 1: build it up, and I want this one song to
Speaker 1: live on its song without any product action. And I
Speaker 1: knew that before I even built up the other songs.
Speaker 1: But I knew the other songs were going to go there,
Speaker 1: But that was the one where I just felt like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is where everyone can kind of take a deep breath.
Speaker 1: I read an old Time Out interview that you did
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, and you said, I'm not a down
Speaker 1: in the dumps person. People think that I am because
Speaker 1: of the music that I write. Is that something that
Speaker 1: you feel compelled to tell people because your music is
Speaker 1: so emotional. Well, I definitely like reassuring people that I'm
Speaker 1: okay in number one, especially my mother, who at various
Speaker 1: points in my life, was like, I thought you were okay.
Speaker 1: I thought we were you know, I thought you were
Speaker 1: in a good place. I'm like, well I am. But like,
Speaker 1: this is my coping mechanism. This is my form of therapy.
Speaker 1: And if I didn't have music, I don't know where
Speaker 1: i'd be today. But I do have that outlet, you know,
Speaker 1: And I think that if any if you have an outlet,
Speaker 1: whatever it is, with being music or exercising or painting,
Speaker 1: it's like everyone needs to find their outlet to let
Speaker 1: out the side of them that is hard to communicate.
Speaker 1: And that's how I process my emotions. Yeah, So how
Speaker 1: do records usually start for you? Like, do you isolate
Speaker 1: certain sounds or feelings that you want to capture or
Speaker 1: is it more just you like noodling on an instrument
Speaker 1: or writing lyrics? How do they usually begin? Well? I
Speaker 1: tend to write and write and write and not think
Speaker 1: about the production part of it at first. And then
Speaker 1: when I have a collection of songs and I look
Speaker 1: at the entirety of what they are and what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about and what I'm going through in that moment.
Speaker 1: Then I realize that I'm capturing a time period and
Speaker 1: it feels like a chapter. And this particular chapter I
Speaker 1: had about twenty demos and it was COVID, Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I was going to lean into all of the trepid
Speaker 1: day and the darkness and the doubts and the rollercoaster
Speaker 1: of emotions that we were all feeling in parallel in
Speaker 1: different ways. But I wrote all the songs on different instruments,
Speaker 1: so even the bare bones of the songs all started
Speaker 1: in very different places, and I just knew that it
Speaker 1: was going to be a very emotional, a very dramatic
Speaker 1: record before I added anything to it. Do you ever
Speaker 1: do like a gut check with friends or with your
Speaker 1: partner to sort of like bounce your feeling about a
Speaker 1: subject off of them to see if it's kind of
Speaker 1: like a collective feeling. Absolutely, I mean I write from
Speaker 1: a really personal place, and you know, even before Quarantine,
Speaker 1: I wanted to make sure that after I write personal
Speaker 1: songs that they feel universal in a way where anyone
Speaker 1: can connect to them on their own level. So you know,
Speaker 1: I checked myself there before I share it with anyone else,
Speaker 1: and I will say about of what I write, no
Speaker 1: one's ears hear them, because I always write from a
Speaker 1: personal place and it starts there without every thinking that
Speaker 1: it's going to be for anyone else. So that's my
Speaker 1: first filter. Second filter is my partner who is also
Speaker 1: my manager, and he also used to play drums with me,
Speaker 1: so he has a musician's ear as well as thinking
Speaker 1: of all of my albums collectively and what the trajectory
Speaker 1: of my sound has been or will be, or what
Speaker 1: kind of twists and turns are interesting just as a friend.
Speaker 1: But he listens to the content sometimes and asks me,
Speaker 1: like where I'm going? You know? How dark? How dark
Speaker 1: is this? There's even been a song on the record
Speaker 1: where he thought I was singing too low. He's like,
Speaker 1: it sounds uncomfortably low, and I was like, I want
Speaker 1: people to be uncomfortably low with me. What other types
Speaker 1: of feedback does he give you, like specifically when looking
Speaker 1: at the story of all of your albums together, sometimes
Speaker 1: he'll comment on the tempo of my songs and say
Speaker 1: they could be bumped up a couple you know, bpms
Speaker 1: or whatever, because my songs tend to be very mid tempo.
Speaker 1: I think I've honed in my mid tempo ballad for sure,
Speaker 1: and so he'll check me on and trying to give
Speaker 1: some tempo to the records and not laughing at myself
Speaker 1: when a song is too lighthearted, because I'm like with mistakes.
Speaker 1: I thought, is this one too silly to include, you know,
Speaker 1: because it's about it's about me being a bad dancer.
Speaker 1: But he thought, He's like, this is the you know,
Speaker 1: as word as we start talking about sequencing of the record,
Speaker 1: and you know, this is a point in the record
Speaker 1: where that song comes in. We actually really need that
Speaker 1: one song, and it took us a long time to
Speaker 1: get there, but we did, and I found the confidence
Speaker 1: to sing something that lighthearted in the context of the
Speaker 1: weight of the whole album. I want to ask you
Speaker 1: about Home to Me. I believe it's a song about
Speaker 1: your son, but I just wanted to hear how it
Speaker 1: came to you and what you were thinking when you
Speaker 1: wrote it. Home to Me is definitely about my son.
Speaker 1: I have peppered in a couple of secret messages to
Speaker 1: him for when he's old enough to know better. He's five,
Speaker 1: and you know, he's only just starting to understand what
Speaker 1: I do. And it's interesting is he starts asking how
Speaker 1: many movies does it take to get to the city
Speaker 1: where you're going to go. It's all of like the
Speaker 1: increments are all about how many movies can I watch?
Speaker 1: On the way? You can watch The Sandlot four times?
Speaker 1: But you know, it's in the middle of the pandemic
Speaker 1: and writing a new record. I mean, it's very surreal
Speaker 1: to even imagine going on tour again. Yeah, I wasn't
Speaker 1: even sure if it would happen. Quite frankly, I'm scared
Speaker 1: to go back out, but I'm gonna do it because
Speaker 1: that's what I'm supposed to do and that, you know,
Speaker 1: because things are normal now, right so they say, But
Speaker 1: you know, I'm envisioning myself being on the road and
Speaker 1: my son's starting school, and I'm basically apologizing because I
Speaker 1: know how hard it is. But my I feel like
Speaker 1: my job is for him to grow up watching us
Speaker 1: figure it out, watching us make it work, and helping
Speaker 1: each other thrive even when it's hard. And I would
Speaker 1: not be my full self if I did not have
Speaker 1: music and my bond and the fans that support it.
Speaker 1: That's so important too. That's not a little point, right.
Speaker 1: It's so important to feel like yourself after you've had
Speaker 1: a child. It's just such a big deal. And I
Speaker 1: was another thing I was thinking about when I was
Speaker 1: thinking about you going on stage age after being home
Speaker 1: and being a mom and you know, wearing the pandemic
Speaker 1: clothes and whatever it is, you know, and all of
Speaker 1: a sudden you have to step on stage with maybe
Speaker 1: makeup or you have to do your hair and have
Speaker 1: like a cool outfit. That seems like such a big transition,
Speaker 1: and like, can you even like move your body in
Speaker 1: the way you want to move it? How do you
Speaker 1: get back into that mode? Let me tell you. I
Speaker 1: first of all, I got a pair of leather pants
Speaker 1: for the last tour, and I was nervous to put
Speaker 1: them back on. I was like, really, leather pants, Why
Speaker 1: did I do this to myself? Why am I going
Speaker 1: in this rock direction? Why am I trying to be
Speaker 1: Jane Jet right now? I really just I wish I
Speaker 1: could wear sweatpants on stage. You know. We just had
Speaker 1: our first warm up shows recently, and they're on one hand,
Speaker 1: it's nice to shake it off, and I'm I'm glad
Speaker 1: that I'm as my partner calls elevated, Sharon, you know
Speaker 1: you're still yourself. It's just like if you were going
Speaker 1: out on the town or something, and it helps to
Speaker 1: get into this alter ego ish in order to disconnect
Speaker 1: from that person. Yes, even like practice, Like I was
Speaker 1: practicing walking in heels again around the house because I've
Speaker 1: been wearing my bloodstones every day every day, Like Okay,
Speaker 1: well maybe I need to see if blunt Stones will
Speaker 1: collaborate with me on like a Chelsea boit because that's
Speaker 1: going to be my transition. Yeah. I was looking at
Speaker 1: your European tour dates last night and I was just
Speaker 1: thinking about it, like it must be such a singular
Speaker 1: experience for you, just as a mother and as a partner,
Speaker 1: how to figure out how to balance the domestic side
Speaker 1: of life and also like show up and be on
Speaker 1: stage and be so super present to the fans. Is
Speaker 1: there anybody in your life you can talk to about that,
Speaker 1: like how to balance that and how to sort of
Speaker 1: like come to terms within your mind. I mean I've
Speaker 1: talked to different parents for sure, And I think what's
Speaker 1: so unique is that any rigid parent would see my
Speaker 1: career and just be like, oh, yeah, your kid's never
Speaker 1: going on the road. I've never been like that in
Speaker 1: my life, But as I'm getting older, I know that
Speaker 1: I want some structure for my kid because I don't
Speaker 1: naturally have it as a musician and a pisces and
Speaker 1: I'm just a dreamer and I thrive in structure, even
Speaker 1: though I fight against it all the time. So I'm
Speaker 1: trying to find the best of both worlds. Yeah, most
Speaker 1: parents that I know that are on the road or dads,
Speaker 1: and they have a very different kind of attachment to
Speaker 1: kids that there's a separation a bit more where I
Speaker 1: feel constantly connected. And the mothers that I talked to,
Speaker 1: they again, they have different styles and they tend to
Speaker 1: be able to bring a nanny on tour full time,
Speaker 1: and I can't do that either. I love when my
Speaker 1: son comes out and he sees what I do. I
Speaker 1: want him to know what I do. I want him
Speaker 1: to know that I'm available. I want him to be
Speaker 1: able to visualize what my schedule is every day. So
Speaker 1: if I tell him I'm sound checking, he'll know what
Speaker 1: that means. If I tell him I'm just backstage with
Speaker 1: the guys, he knows what I'm talking about. And when
Speaker 1: he knows that I didn't sleep well through the night
Speaker 1: because of the bunk. Then he'll know exactly what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about because he knows what the bunk is, and
Speaker 1: he knows the backstage is, you know. But I also
Speaker 1: he starts kindergarten in August, and I realize that I'm
Speaker 1: going to be on tour for his first day of school,
Speaker 1: and my heart's already broken, you know. But I want
Speaker 1: him to have that, So you can't have both. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We had Michael Stipe on the show recently and he
Speaker 1: was talking about the postpartum period after you come off
Speaker 1: of a big tour or after you finish an album,
Speaker 1: and I was curious to know, since you've actually been
Speaker 1: through postpartum, are those sort of like feelings when you
Speaker 1: finish a big project. Absolutely not, I mean yes, I
Speaker 1: mean your soul is torn open, you like, give all
Speaker 1: these socks. I mean, anyone that's gone through thirty four
Speaker 1: hours of induced labor then to be cut open and
Speaker 1: then takes months to heal. And I'm you know, my
Speaker 1: son is five and I still feel my incision and
Speaker 1: I'm numbed down there and I pee every time I laugh.
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, but it's intense. When you make a record,
Speaker 1: it's intense. When you go on tour and you come home,
Speaker 1: it's intense, and it's like it's more. It's not postpartum.
Speaker 1: It's like you need a nap and you don't want
Speaker 1: to be bothered, and the things that people don't tell you.
Speaker 1: The healing process is different, and with touring, it's like
Speaker 1: you come home and you're exhausted. The physical, physical aspect
Speaker 1: is real. We have to pause for a quick break,
Speaker 1: but we'll be right back with more from Sharon Vanetton
Speaker 1: and Leah Rose. We're back with more from Leah Rose's
Speaker 1: conversation with Sharon Vinnett. Let's talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: your background growing up in Jersey. Do you remember like
Speaker 1: the first artist or the first piece of music that
Speaker 1: you really connected to. The first song I ever fell
Speaker 1: in love with was Unchained Melody. I just thought it
Speaker 1: was one of the most beautiful songs I've ever written.
Speaker 1: I still do. But the first thing I sought out
Speaker 1: on my own was Elastica. I found it a Sam
Speaker 1: Goodie in the mall, and I remember that I wanted
Speaker 1: to be them so bad. That was like, they look
Speaker 1: so cool. It was like the connect you know connection,
Speaker 1: uh huh. I didn't know a lot of female rock
Speaker 1: musicians that were modern, but that kind of opened up
Speaker 1: this whole other gate as soon as my schoolmates were
Speaker 1: a here, like we're trading Walkman and sharing the cassettes
Speaker 1: were listening to and I was like, Oh, Sonic Youth cool,
Speaker 1: Nirvana cool, you know, Liz Fair cool. But that was
Speaker 1: kind of my gateway into getting into with the cool
Speaker 1: kids because I listened to a lot of classic music
Speaker 1: leading up to that. So were you listening to stuff
Speaker 1: that your brothers and sisters were hearing or what was like?
Speaker 1: What was music like in your house? It was all
Speaker 1: over the place. So I was one of five kids,
Speaker 1: and my dad had the final collection that he had
Speaker 1: since he was a kid, so it was a lot
Speaker 1: of sixties, sixties seventies rock. His favorite band is Jethro Tull,
Speaker 1: and he was listening to music constantly in the car.
Speaker 1: But it was Jethro Tull, the Beatles, Rolling Stones, The
Speaker 1: King's smot the Hoople, and then my older brother who
Speaker 1: was super into that music as well, because we all
Speaker 1: listened to what my dad listened to. Yeah, my older
Speaker 1: brother gave me his box of tapes when he left
Speaker 1: for college as a going away present, and it was
Speaker 1: like n inch Nail's Pretty Hate Machine, Ned's Atomic Dustbin,
Speaker 1: Jin Blossoms, sol Asylum. My mom was like folk. She
Speaker 1: likes Joni Mitchell and m Melanie and she got me
Speaker 1: into Married Shapin and Lucinda Williams. So like I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm so I'm inspired by so much that I
Speaker 1: get I get confused. Yeah, was the house loud? Like
Speaker 1: was there always music playing? Like? What was the regular
Speaker 1: vibe in the house? Oh? Absolutely, I mean my dad
Speaker 1: was blasting records downstairs, and then when there wasn't music
Speaker 1: going on in the basement, then the drums were probably
Speaker 1: being played or my brother and his friends were probably jamming.
Speaker 1: And like with road trips, especially when there's like seven
Speaker 1: of us in a car when we drove my brother
Speaker 1: cross country to go to Arizona State. We're in my
Speaker 1: parents green mini van and we have one of those
Speaker 1: max on the top of the car and the whole like,
Speaker 1: there's certain things that I was to remember from this
Speaker 1: road trip is that we all had our Walkman and
Speaker 1: neutral grain bars. I will never be able to eat
Speaker 1: one again in my life because I smell them forever
Speaker 1: or are you who did that prepare you at all
Speaker 1: for going on tour, especially early tours, just like being
Speaker 1: packed into a car with your family or just living
Speaker 1: in the house with a lot of things going on,
Speaker 1: like I'm sure at times it was chaotic, Like did
Speaker 1: that prepare you for that life? Oh? Absolutely? I mean
Speaker 1: I was a you know, I was raised as a camper,
Speaker 1: and you learn how to share space and not to
Speaker 1: take up a lot of space. And I also learned
Speaker 1: to be like a listener and not a talker, although
Speaker 1: I'm talking a lot right now, but I'm a better
Speaker 1: listener than a talker. I'm kind of indecisive because there
Speaker 1: were so many of us that I never I let
Speaker 1: everyone else make the decision because if I was another
Speaker 1: opinion in the mix, I just it stressed me out
Speaker 1: too much, and so I would I would just kind
Speaker 1: of let everyone else to side and deal with it
Speaker 1: because I didn't really care. Okay, I just learned to
Speaker 1: not care. So when did you start actually playing? When
Speaker 1: did you start picking up instruments and what did you
Speaker 1: play first? Instruments were encouraged at a really young age.
Speaker 1: I remember when I moved in about I think kindergarten
Speaker 1: and there was a it was like a fixer upper
Speaker 1: Victorian house where I first lived in a Nutley, New Jersey.
Speaker 1: But the people that moved didn't want to take their
Speaker 1: grand piano, and it was like this old grand piano
Speaker 1: and everyone was like it was chaotic with everybody like
Speaker 1: like moving in and like the kids claiming their rooms
Speaker 1: or whatever. But like I was too young to know,
Speaker 1: and I got I guess I got lost in the
Speaker 1: shuffle where I couldn't find anybody, and my mom was
Speaker 1: looking for me. I guess, you know, I was wandering
Speaker 1: around and then she heard me and I was under
Speaker 1: the piano crying, and she said that ever since that day,
Speaker 1: I gravitated towards that piano and I started just like
Speaker 1: hearing notes and humming along to it, and she's like,
Speaker 1: you always played it. And then I think by the
Speaker 1: time I was in second or third grade, I got lessons,
Speaker 1: and I got piano lessons early on, and then I
Speaker 1: got suzuki violin lessons through my local elementary school. And
Speaker 1: then in the middle of my sixth grade year, we
Speaker 1: moved and there wasn't really like a music scene there
Speaker 1: and so it wasn't until high school that I tried
Speaker 1: to go back into the music world, and then I
Speaker 1: did choir. And when I went into high school, as
Speaker 1: when my brother left for college and he left me
Speaker 1: his guitar and I started playing guitar and I was
Speaker 1: learning how to sing properly. And before that I was
Speaker 1: only singing in church. We used to go every Sunday.
Speaker 1: I wasn't really religious, but I loved messing with everyone
Speaker 1: in the room because they'd only sing the melody and
Speaker 1: I'd be the only one in the whole room singing
Speaker 1: a harmony. But I like challenging myself to like learn
Speaker 1: harmonies that way. And by the time I was choir,
Speaker 1: I I kind of found my niche. That's when the
Speaker 1: guitar and the singing started. Was there a point when
Speaker 1: you decided, maybe around you know, high school, late high
Speaker 1: school or early college age, that you wanted to try
Speaker 1: and take our crack at music full time or was
Speaker 1: it always sort of a hobby at that point. It
Speaker 1: was a hobby for sure. In high school, I used
Speaker 1: to write more silly songs with an older friend of mine.
Speaker 1: Her name was Dana, and we would sit on the
Speaker 1: main street and just write about what we saw like
Speaker 1: a gangster in the corner with his pants blowing in
Speaker 1: the wind, and you know this green canoe that sat
Speaker 1: on the main street. That were like, one day, we're
Speaker 1: going to save up enough money to buy this green canoe.
Speaker 1: But very like ween like songs. Yeah, and they were
Speaker 1: like a big you know we were you know they live,
Speaker 1: they live close to where we're from. Oh they're in Pennsylvania, right,
Speaker 1: New Hope. Yeah, so like I used to. I used
Speaker 1: to play on the corner of Lambertville and New Hope.
Speaker 1: And when I moved in the middle of my sixth
Speaker 1: grade year, we moved to a town close to Pennsylvania
Speaker 1: and Lambertville. Lambertville New Hope had like the open mics
Speaker 1: that I would go through later in life. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I didn't take it seriously, but
Speaker 1: I knew that I that was the only thing I
Speaker 1: ever cared about was music. I didn't know what I
Speaker 1: was going to do or how I was going to
Speaker 1: do it. But my parents when we talked about what
Speaker 1: I was going to do for a job one day,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I just I want to do music.
Speaker 1: They're like, but what about it? You know, they say
Speaker 1: after high school I have to go to college, so
Speaker 1: what I want want to do in college. And there
Speaker 1: wasn't like if I could have a year off to
Speaker 1: figure it out or anything. It was just not an
Speaker 1: option at the time. In the nineties, it wasn't really discussed.
Speaker 1: I don't feel like it was the natural thing to do.
Speaker 1: You can do it, so let's do it. And they
Speaker 1: wanted me to have a backup plan. Yeah. I threw
Speaker 1: a kid that was a year ahead of me in
Speaker 1: choir actually and in theater, which I also did musicals
Speaker 1: in theater. He went to a recording school in Middle
Speaker 1: Tennessee in Murphersboro. He said, you should check out Middle Tennessee.
Speaker 1: It's pretty cool. There's a good recording program, and it's
Speaker 1: in the fastest city, fastest scoring city in the South.
Speaker 1: So they said it was before East Nashville popped up
Speaker 1: at all. So I moved there in ninety nine. It
Speaker 1: was the only school I applied to, and I didn't
Speaker 1: get past the general studies classes because I had this
Speaker 1: illusion that I could finally go to school for music
Speaker 1: and I'd be taking music classes. But the whole first
Speaker 1: year was spent doing science and maths and like the
Speaker 1: English but I was like, I just I got like
Speaker 1: straight's in high school, and now I had to do
Speaker 1: this all over again. And I was so mad that
Speaker 1: I stopped going and I got a job at a venue,
Speaker 1: and that's when I started writing songs for real. But
Speaker 1: I didn't think I could do it full time until
Speaker 1: my twenties, when I left Tennessee with my tail between
Speaker 1: my legs after I had a bad relationship, moved back
Speaker 1: in with my parents for a year to save money,
Speaker 1: and then after that year, I moved to New York
Speaker 1: in about two thousand four two thousand and five and
Speaker 1: really really gave it my first go with the songs
Speaker 1: that I had written in the past. Do you remember
Speaker 1: some of those early performances and were you just sort
Speaker 1: of like closing your eyes and going inside or were
Speaker 1: you able to be aware of yourself in the situation.
Speaker 1: I used to hide behind my bangs, and I always
Speaker 1: had short cuts because whenever I got stressed out, I
Speaker 1: would cut my hair. And I always have the weirdest
Speaker 1: haircuts because I cut it myself, especially the back, but
Speaker 1: the front was always long. And so I would do
Speaker 1: this thing where I would perform and hide behind behind
Speaker 1: my hair. So I didn't have to look at people.
Speaker 1: And I used to just drink a little bit too
Speaker 1: much whiskey and go to open legs and tell people
Speaker 1: that I only wanted to write music to make people cry. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I was like so shy. But I was also
Speaker 1: a shit talker, like I didn't know what I was doing.
Speaker 1: I was so I didn't know, Like I just I
Speaker 1: was driven to play, and I had no idea why.
Speaker 1: I didn't even I didn't have enough distance from the
Speaker 1: songs to realize how intense they were. And I would
Speaker 1: do this like weird thing in between where people weren't
Speaker 1: sure if I was doing stand up, if this was
Speaker 1: like performance art, or if I actually was playing real songs.
Speaker 1: Like they were so lost. But when I started, you know,
Speaker 1: singing more and talking less and you know, making less jokes,
Speaker 1: I think the music made more sense. I was thinking
Speaker 1: about you growing up in Jersey. Is there any sort
Speaker 1: of connective tissue that you feel between you Patti Smith
Speaker 1: and Springsteen? Like? Is there anything there? Like? Is there
Speaker 1: any commonality? I grew up listening to Bruce Springsteen, and
Speaker 1: as an adult I found Patty And I think when
Speaker 1: I finally learned how to have a band, they had
Speaker 1: a baby. I mean, that's that's my only thing. I
Speaker 1: you know, I appreciate them both for different reasons. Bruce
Speaker 1: was such a like a neighbor, a friend, you know,
Speaker 1: not my neighbor, but you know what I mean, I
Speaker 1: feel like everyone from Jersey. I still remember this kid
Speaker 1: in elementary school who swore that that was his uncle
Speaker 1: or his cousin or something, and I wanted to believe
Speaker 1: it's so bad just because his last name was Springsteen.
Speaker 1: But you know, I feel like everyone from New Jersey
Speaker 1: feels this camaraderie with Bruce Springsteen because he just talks
Speaker 1: about growing up in a small town and like working class,
Speaker 1: blue collar like stories that nobody tells. And that's a
Speaker 1: lot of Jersey. And you know, I didn't understand or
Speaker 1: come into Patti Smith's music until I had gone through
Speaker 1: until I lived a life a bit to be able
Speaker 1: to connect with her, with her trauma and with her
Speaker 1: path in life. And living in New York, you know,
Speaker 1: New York's to meet embodies Patti Smith so much, and
Speaker 1: even in the places that I lived, I felt like
Speaker 1: I was circling her past lives. And you know, it
Speaker 1: makes me made me think differently about how I phrased
Speaker 1: things and what it was I wanted to share versus
Speaker 1: how can I use things to symbolize versus speak so
Speaker 1: directly so that again more people can connect with it
Speaker 1: in their own way, versus just telling them exactly how
Speaker 1: I felt. And I'm still learning how to do that,
Speaker 1: and I still aspire to learn how to write in
Speaker 1: a more poetic way as she does. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I feel there's a certain amount of grit between the
Speaker 1: three of you, like that might be a commonality. The
Speaker 1: way they engage with the audience, too, is something that
Speaker 1: I want to learn how to do better. I'm learning
Speaker 1: how to put instruments down. You know that, there's just
Speaker 1: part of me as a musician that I'm like, I
Speaker 1: still play, I play guitar, I play keys. I played
Speaker 1: a lot on this record. But I think in a
Speaker 1: live set, as I'm learning to let go of the instrument,
Speaker 1: I'm actually a better performer when I'm not multitasking if
Speaker 1: i can just sing. But I'm a little territorial where
Speaker 1: I'm like Charlie, I don't want you to play my
Speaker 1: guitar part, can you play the piano instead? But it
Speaker 1: actually doesn't help the situation. Most of the time, I
Speaker 1: just have to let go and be a singer. But
Speaker 1: it's such a hard thing to do after being my
Speaker 1: own band for so long. You know, Yeah, do you
Speaker 1: ever get hung up about what you do on stage?
Speaker 1: Like physically if you don't have an instrument? Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: what do I do with my hand? Sure? I mean
Speaker 1: I realize I'm a pointer. I'm like pointing so much,
Speaker 1: you know, like what would Alane do? You know? I'm
Speaker 1: like such a Jersey girl. I'm just pointing at everyone,
Speaker 1: and then I look back and I'm like, remember, people
Speaker 1: are just gonna mirror that. If you're pointing at everyone,
Speaker 1: They're just going to point right back to you. And
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, like you have an audience,
Speaker 1: it's all pointing at me. And I'm like, maybe I
Speaker 1: need to figure out more signs. But yeah, I'm still
Speaker 1: figuring out that part of it. But it's fun to
Speaker 1: like walk around stage and mess with my bandmates and
Speaker 1: interact with them in other ways. But I need to
Speaker 1: watch a lot more performance videos to be inspired about
Speaker 1: what that is. But I also want to find it
Speaker 1: on my own without completely ripping people. Patty's a really
Speaker 1: crazy performer. She's really good. She's so I mean, she's
Speaker 1: so wonderful. I gotten to see her twice at Bowerie
Speaker 1: for New Year's before she stopped doing the New Year's shows.
Speaker 1: I remember where she was having a night and she
Speaker 1: kind of stopped the show and was just talking for
Speaker 1: a while and saying that, you know, she doesn't know why,
Speaker 1: but it was one of those days where she woke
Speaker 1: up and she's like, today is just not my day,
Speaker 1: having a bad day. Nothing happened, but having a bad day,
Speaker 1: and doesn't that just piss you off. She's just talking
Speaker 1: about how something I'm just She's like, I'm just trying
Speaker 1: to shake this thing off. I don't know what it is,
Speaker 1: but it's this thing and I've been feeling it all day.
Speaker 1: And the whole audience just started like connecting with her
Speaker 1: and like, yeah, it was like, you know, the do
Speaker 1: you believe in fairies kind of feeling where all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, like the energy of the crowd gave her
Speaker 1: her confidence back and she went right into pissing in
Speaker 1: a river and I lost my mind. It was one
Speaker 1: of the best performances I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 1: I think that was two thousand and ten. So she's
Speaker 1: an expert vamper, which Springsteen is too, So there's another connection.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Okay, I gotta learn on that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the power of the vamp. Yeah, guys, this is where
Speaker 1: you can vamp. You wait on me to do some
Speaker 1: kind of thing. You know, you have to learn how
Speaker 1: to be able to speak right at a certain point
Speaker 1: and engage with the audience and and yes, be able
Speaker 1: to get another emotion besides the emotion of the songs
Speaker 1: that you're giving. Said that you can show them a
Speaker 1: bit about who you are, yea. And sometimes shit happens
Speaker 1: on stage. It's funny, and sometimes you need to communicate it.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you just I try to engage with the people
Speaker 1: in the audience and you never know it's going to
Speaker 1: come from there. But you know, it's uncomfortable sometimes when
Speaker 1: it's only song, song, song, song, song, song, song, and
Speaker 1: you don't ever try to connect with them in another way.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a break with more from
Speaker 1: Sharon van Etton and Leah Rose. We're back with Sharon
Speaker 1: van Etton, but before we jump back into the conversation,
Speaker 1: let's hear her new song Darkness Fades s Sun his whole.
Speaker 1: He oh, it's been warm suns too, the sin wet
Speaker 1: to oh dudek seem fun see um he stars far
Speaker 1: keeping water, start looking at I'm struggling for dreaming of
Speaker 1: a hell. Clock stays sticky back in darkness, Fates. It
Speaker 1: sounds like you're using your voice in a new way.
Speaker 1: It's like you're able to harness more power in your vocals.
Speaker 1: And is that something that's coming from your chest or
Speaker 1: is it more of like from your head, Like where
Speaker 1: is that coming from? And how did you prepare yourself
Speaker 1: to do that? I honestly, I was harnessing my inner
Speaker 1: choir girl, And you know it comes up through my boots,
Speaker 1: but it probably sits in my you know, in my abs,
Speaker 1: in my chest somewhere, you know, my diaphragm. But I
Speaker 1: took some vocal lessons from this woman in New York,
Speaker 1: Joe Joy. Ask you who used to sing a lot
Speaker 1: with Peter Gabriel and Laurie Anderson, And so she was
Speaker 1: a trained rock singer who doesn't judge you based on
Speaker 1: like how you sing, how you look, what your lifestyle is.
Speaker 1: She teaches you exercises and how to relax, like your throat,
Speaker 1: your jaw, your tongue, and how to project your voice
Speaker 1: in a different way by the shapes you can make
Speaker 1: with your mouth. And so you have to do a
Speaker 1: lot of visualizing. When you open yourself up like that
Speaker 1: and imagine like your body as a straw and just
Speaker 1: allowing air to go through. It's a lot easier sub
Speaker 1: than done. But yeah, when I when I first wrote
Speaker 1: that melody, it was I didn't know it was going
Speaker 1: to come out, and I felt like I was controlling
Speaker 1: so much grief and the only way I could get
Speaker 1: it out was pretending like I was in quire and
Speaker 1: singing it in this proper way. Almost I had to
Speaker 1: posture and stand and close my eyes and just visualize
Speaker 1: that I was singing in that way. Have you seen
Speaker 1: a difference in the way that you sang after taking
Speaker 1: the vocal lesson and doing the visualizations. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: something I have to keep up, but I'll bring the
Speaker 1: exercises on tour because it's also maintenance. It's muscle memory
Speaker 1: of even how you talk, so like if I was
Speaker 1: trying to save my voice, I would talk more like this.
Speaker 1: And it's the way that you aim the air at
Speaker 1: the roof of your mouth, so you're tricking your throat
Speaker 1: into not receiving error through your vocal cords. Oh but
Speaker 1: how I really talk. It all sits right here and
Speaker 1: that's the rasp. But if I speak like this, it's
Speaker 1: very different. But I can't do that without laughing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is some of the hard These are some of
Speaker 1: the hardest songs as a singer to perform. And I
Speaker 1: just had four shows in a row and I've had
Speaker 1: two days off in I could just feel it, you know,
Speaker 1: in my throat. I'm like, I need to practice more.
Speaker 1: I'm so like vocally out of shape. And they are
Speaker 1: very demanding songs, not just an intensity in the performance,
Speaker 1: but also the range is insane. I don't know why
Speaker 1: I did this to myself. Yes, okay, I just want
Speaker 1: to ask you about a couple more songs, if that's okay,
Speaker 1: of course, can you tell me about the story about
Speaker 1: every time the sun comes up? I know it's a
Speaker 1: line I'm probably going to regret the rest of my life.
Speaker 1: But we just were having a late night and it
Speaker 1: was a song that I hadn't finished, and we were
Speaker 1: ahead of schedule in the studio and we had time
Speaker 1: to work on one more and the band was encouraging
Speaker 1: we had to finish it because they were like, this
Speaker 1: is going to be a classic song. It's so Bruce Springsteen.
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, I don't know, like my
Speaker 1: lyrics aren't done, and they're like, why don't you just
Speaker 1: take a break, have like a drink and a smoke
Speaker 1: and come back and like we'll I'll play the song
Speaker 1: live and you can just you can just freestyle lyrics.
Speaker 1: We won't keep anything, and then we can at least
Speaker 1: get the band music done and then you can work
Speaker 1: on the lyrics another time. You can work on the
Speaker 1: vocals another time, because we'll be recording in separate rooms
Speaker 1: or whatever. And while you know, while I was having
Speaker 1: a drink with the band, like I literally, you know,
Speaker 1: I broke Stuart Lerman, who produced a record with me,
Speaker 1: I like broke one of his glasses and like I
Speaker 1: cleaned it up and like you had to do the
Speaker 1: dishes in the bathroom in the studio that we were at.
Speaker 1: So it was called like Hobo Sounded. It was an
Speaker 1: amazing studio that was just through the Lincoln Tunnel and
Speaker 1: Weehawk in New Jersey and I would take the bus
Speaker 1: there from the Port Authority and it was an amazing setup.
Speaker 1: It was just exactly what I needed. Wasn't too much,
Speaker 1: it wasn't too little, was just enough for what I
Speaker 1: needed at that time. And this the funny thing was
Speaker 1: where you did the dishes. It was in the bathroom,
Speaker 1: and I was just a little stone and I thought
Speaker 1: it was really funny that I was like doing the
Speaker 1: dishes after I went to the bathroom. And so I
Speaker 1: came back into the studio and like, the band's all
Speaker 1: ready for me to go, and I'm thinking, this isn't
Speaker 1: a keeper take, and so I'm just singing stream of
Speaker 1: consciously in the place of like just the bands playing
Speaker 1: live together, and I'm just doing these vocals that I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm not worried because they're not going to keep it.
Speaker 1: But they kept it, and they said, I don't think
Speaker 1: you need to rewrite any of this, and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh man, okay, I'm probably going to regret this later.
Speaker 1: But I was just kind of documenting what happened, but
Speaker 1: like taking out a context. It seems kind of random.
Speaker 1: But I mean, that song gets stuck in my head
Speaker 1: like no other. Oh thanks. Also, I was reading about
Speaker 1: you've been studying psychology on and off, and it sounds
Speaker 1: like you've really wanted to at a certain point. I
Speaker 1: think around twenty fifteen, you want to take a break
Speaker 1: from music and you started to go back to school,
Speaker 1: but then you got the job on the OA, and
Speaker 1: it sounds like things have just been sort of like
Speaker 1: building and building. But that desire is still there to
Speaker 1: finish your psychology degree and possibly pursue that in some
Speaker 1: way or another. Is that something that you're still thinking
Speaker 1: about now? Absolutely, I've actually, you know, I never finished
Speaker 1: my underground But I'm two classes away from being able
Speaker 1: to transfer to a university. I just have to hit
Speaker 1: these these damn general studies classes. Yes, I just need
Speaker 1: one science and one statistics class and I can transfer
Speaker 1: to the psychology program in a university in California. But
Speaker 1: I can't wait to get past the you know, the
Speaker 1: general studies classes so I can figure out what it
Speaker 1: is that I most connect with, because I'm sure once
Speaker 1: I start digging into the more specific classes in psychology
Speaker 1: that I'll be able to focus on what it is
Speaker 1: I want to do, because I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: the social work aspect or if it's working out of
Speaker 1: a university and connecting with younger kids as they transition
Speaker 1: from their homes, or if it's one on one therapy
Speaker 1: in like my own practice, or if it's being a
Speaker 1: consultant in some kind of way. I'm not sure, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I just want to help. I just want to help
Speaker 1: people learn how to talk about their emotions because it's
Speaker 1: the only thing I've had that's been consistent in my
Speaker 1: life and learning how to hone and it's helped me
Speaker 1: a lot. So we'll see what We'll see where it goes.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was in the new Pitchfork profile on you
Speaker 1: that you said, maybe when you're fifty, you'll slow down
Speaker 1: with the creative side of things and focus more on
Speaker 1: building a psychology practice or figuring out what that is.
Speaker 1: But it also seems like you have so much creative
Speaker 1: ambition still and there's so much that you're still doing,
Speaker 1: and there's definitely more music. So do you think that's
Speaker 1: something that will actually ever happen. I mean, my goal
Speaker 1: is to have a degree by the time I'm fifty.
Speaker 1: I'm forty one. I think that's our realistical while chipping
Speaker 1: away at this degree while also still working on music,
Speaker 1: because that is something that I feel like I will
Speaker 1: always do you know, I don't know where these other
Speaker 1: interests will will take me. I'm just you know, I'm
Speaker 1: interested in a lot of things, but I think if
Speaker 1: I set goals for myself that they will be realistic.
Speaker 1: And you know, once I say Okay, I'm going to
Speaker 1: go to school for this, I'll focus on that for
Speaker 1: a semester or two, depending on what the program looks like,
Speaker 1: I'll say okay, then I'm going to get a dedicate
Speaker 1: a year to this, and we'll see where this leads.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's like, I think it's healthy to
Speaker 1: learn how to pivot, and as we get older, it's
Speaker 1: it's I think it's healthy to not depend on one
Speaker 1: thing to sustain ourselves. And again, I want I want
Speaker 1: my son to grow up thinking that anything is possible.
Speaker 1: So for me to be able to pivot from being
Speaker 1: on the road all the time to finding work that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that I have to be absent, then I'm
Speaker 1: all for it. Well, thank you so much for doing this.
Speaker 1: It was so fun talking to you, and I wish
Speaker 1: you huge, huge luck on the tour. You're going to
Speaker 1: kill it. Well, thank you so much, Lee, it was
Speaker 1: really nice getting to talk with you. I appreciate you
Speaker 1: taking the time. It was really really fun. Thanks to
Speaker 1: Sharon Vnetton for giving us insight into the making of
Speaker 1: her new album. We've been going about this all wrong.
Speaker 1: To hear our favorite Sharon Vnetton songs. Check out the
Speaker 1: playlist at broken record podcast dot com. Be sure to
Speaker 1: subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash
Speaker 1: broken record Podcast, where you can find all of our
Speaker 1: new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record.
Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced and help from Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel,
Speaker 1: vent Holiday, Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering help
Speaker 1: from Nick Chafe. Our executive producer is Mia Lobell. Broken
Speaker 1: Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you like
Speaker 1: this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.
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Speaker 1: Candy Beats. I'm justin Richmond, h