Speaker 1: Welcome to Special Teams, a production of I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: Hello and Welcome Inside Special Teams with Jason Smith and
Speaker 1: Mike Harmon. The podcast looks back at special teams from
Speaker 1: individual years in sports history and what made them so
Speaker 1: relevant today. We are looking back at two special teams,
Speaker 1: New York Giants and San Francisco forty Niners, who met
Speaker 1: in the NFC Championship Game. In the final game, Joe
Speaker 1: Montana would ever start for the forty Niners. No one
Speaker 1: thought it was gonna happen back then, but that's the
Speaker 1: way it played out. Of course, everybody remembers the Super
Speaker 1: Bowl uh the following week in which the Giants beat
Speaker 1: the Bills Scott nordwide right. But this Giants forty Niners
Speaker 1: NFC Championship Game is one of the greatest games in
Speaker 1: NFL history, and it was two teams that were steaming
Speaker 1: towards the Super Bowl. And really this year, Mike, was
Speaker 1: about three teams. It was about the Giants as good
Speaker 1: as they were, the forty Niners and the a f C.
Speaker 1: It was the Bills who are running rush shot over
Speaker 1: everybody with the K gun and it was great. But
Speaker 1: it was kind of one of those well the new
Speaker 1: fengled and a f L type football that that nobody
Speaker 1: really thought could win. You know, all the way back
Speaker 1: you know in days of the Chargers and the Jets.
Speaker 1: Well here the Bills, all the doing is throwing the
Speaker 1: football all over the field and running these crazy as plays.
Speaker 1: But the Niners and the Giants, these are traditionally good
Speaker 1: football teams. And hey, between those three teams, you knew
Speaker 1: one of them was gonna win the Super Bowl. Run
Speaker 1: the ball and play defense, control the clock. I mean,
Speaker 1: three yards in a cloud of dust is what we
Speaker 1: still wanted to see, even though we were enamored with,
Speaker 1: Like you said that, those Charger teams, right, great strata
Speaker 1: matic teams of our times, the Dan Marina winging it
Speaker 1: around for the Dolphins. Uh. And then you get to
Speaker 1: Jim Kelly and and company. But it was can you
Speaker 1: get over right? You're you're there every year, you're competing
Speaker 1: every year, but it's still the tried and true formula
Speaker 1: of football as we've known it. That was winning out
Speaker 1: and I think that was frustrating to many folks, no
Speaker 1: question about it. But here it was all right, what's
Speaker 1: gonna give? So this season that was leading towards the
Speaker 1: NFC Championship game. The New York Giants were terrific. This
Speaker 1: is in the annals of history as the Giants potentially
Speaker 1: their greatest team. They started out ten and oh their defense,
Speaker 1: of course incredible, led by Lawrence Taylor. They allowed the
Speaker 1: fewest points in the NFL thirteen points per game. They
Speaker 1: played seven playoff teams in the regular season. They were
Speaker 1: veteran heavy. I mean this, this was a team where
Speaker 1: of all those great Giant defenses led by lt this
Speaker 1: might have been the best one. And the Giants clearly
Speaker 1: one on defense all season long. Their offense was just
Speaker 1: good enough. You know, Phil Sims had already won a
Speaker 1: Super Bowl in n six and he was still the
Speaker 1: quarterback now a few years later. But this wasn't where
Speaker 1: the Giants would score a ton of points and hey,
Speaker 1: this is no this was our defense is gonna take
Speaker 1: us as far as we're gonna go here. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: Giants gave up more than twenty one points in the
Speaker 1: game just once, their first loss to the season late November. Right,
Speaker 1: you're talking Thanksgiving week where they get pummeled by the Eagles.
Speaker 1: Otherwise you're talking nine games where they gave up ten
Speaker 1: points or fewer. I mean, that's just ridiculous and goes
Speaker 1: into those you know, two thousand Ravens eighty five bears
Speaker 1: the steel curtain on all of those purple people eater
Speaker 1: type defense that that you talk about. But in the
Speaker 1: largest of it, you've got one or two guys that
Speaker 1: get called out for their greatness, and I don't know
Speaker 1: that the team necessarily gets the recognition that deserved for
Speaker 1: what they did for that full season. It was a
Speaker 1: time in the NFL where I think because we had
Speaker 1: seen the Giants play so well for so long, it
Speaker 1: was just another year, you know, realized, but you look
Speaker 1: back at it, go boy, this was the best year.
Speaker 1: But we had seen them win on defense. We've seen
Speaker 1: Lawrence Taylor do his thing and make so many incredible plays.
Speaker 1: Look the guys the best defensive player I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: And you know, but when you see it after a while,
Speaker 1: it's okay, there's there's a Giant. Yeah they're good. They're
Speaker 1: really good, just just like they normally are the Giants
Speaker 1: who we were. I think again, it goes to the
Speaker 1: style points right to why Buffalo's offense the way it
Speaker 1: ran was exciting, but he were skeptical that it was
Speaker 1: was durable for a long haul and for that Super
Speaker 1: Bowl run. So as the Giants star tendan Oh, the
Speaker 1: forty Niners start great as well, and everybody starts looking
Speaker 1: towards Week thirteen, Monday Night football Giants and the forty Niners.
Speaker 1: The build up to the game of the years, as
Speaker 1: Burman used to always say, Super Bowl blank and a half,
Speaker 1: like this is this is that Super Bowl? Uh? The
Speaker 1: build up to this game was immense. The Giants were playing.
Speaker 1: The main thing the Giants did well offensively was it
Speaker 1: in turn the football over. They had fourteen turnovers in
Speaker 1: the regular season. You're talking about less than one turnover
Speaker 1: per game. You're gonna win a lot of football games
Speaker 1: that way. Meanwhile, the Niners were the normal forty Niners
Speaker 1: right there, the Super Bowl champions the previous two years.
Speaker 1: They were great. Jerry Rice became the fourth wide receiver
Speaker 1: ever with a hundred catches in a season. He set
Speaker 1: a team record with five touchdowns in a game against Atlanta,
Speaker 1: Montana set a record with four seventy six yards passing
Speaker 1: and six touchdowns in the same game. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is the three peat. The Niners are going for the
Speaker 1: first three peat sorry, pat Riley, I owe, I owe
Speaker 1: your money, and and what was what was going to
Speaker 1: get in their way? The New York Giants. They were
Speaker 1: the only team, but clearly in the pantheon of which
Speaker 1: team was better, you sided with the forty Niners, coming
Speaker 1: off the fact they were the Super Bowl champions the
Speaker 1: last two years. The Giants were ka is starting to
Speaker 1: kind of trying hang on a bit to the the
Speaker 1: era that they had built up with their great defense
Speaker 1: over the past few years. Yeah, I mean, when when
Speaker 1: you look at it from a statistical standpoint, you knew
Speaker 1: what the forty Niners were capable of, even against the
Speaker 1: better defenses. You were always waiting on that next connection
Speaker 1: from Montana to Rice. Now Montana wasn't as efficient, right
Speaker 1: they go, He goes fourteen and one as a starter,
Speaker 1: But sixteen interceptions against twenty six touchdowns that year. You know,
Speaker 1: one of those where your eye eyebrow raises just a
Speaker 1: little bit as it were still scrambling, well, still getting
Speaker 1: to the edges pretty well. But it's Jerry Rice making plays,
Speaker 1: Roger Craig doing Roger Craig things. I stumped for him
Speaker 1: for the Hall of Fame as often as you can
Speaker 1: I love Dick uh And then Brent Jones was their
Speaker 1: second leading receiver man catches. He's a full forty four
Speaker 1: catches off of what Jerry Rice put up. Who loves
Speaker 1: you to throw the football too? I mean, I'm throw
Speaker 1: to Jerry who else you now? Nobody else? Really hard
Speaker 1: hard to fight that, right. So this Monday night football
Speaker 1: game in week thirteen was seven to three. Forts win
Speaker 1: this game seven to three. Their defense shuts the Giants down.
Speaker 1: The Giants are down seven three. They had first and
Speaker 1: goal from the nine yard line in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 1: They is shoot a field goal. They went for the touchdown.
Speaker 1: They didn't make it. They got the ball back with
Speaker 1: thirty six seconds left in the game and Phil Simms
Speaker 1: got the Giants to the Niners twenty seven yard line.
Speaker 1: So had they kicked the field goal before, they could
Speaker 1: have kicked the field goal there in one. But on
Speaker 1: the final play of the game, Simms is sacked by
Speaker 1: Kevin Fagan, and I'll always remember this. Sims gets up
Speaker 1: and just slams the football down to the ground. He
Speaker 1: was so piste off. The Niners win this game seven three,
Speaker 1: and it was Super Bowl blank and a half, and
Speaker 1: it was the first NFL game broadcast live in England.
Speaker 1: So England saying, oh, we're gonna get the Niners and
Speaker 1: the Giants, these two great teams, and are there any points?
Speaker 1: There's only ten points in the game. This is not
Speaker 1: not not the first taste of American football. I think
Speaker 1: the NFL was expecting England to get in this game televised. Well,
Speaker 1: especially if you're gonna shoe field goal opportunities. They love
Speaker 1: their kickers, well, they'll love Matt Barr and oh we'll
Speaker 1: have more on Matt Barn coming up. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: mean seven three. You know this is where midway through
Speaker 1: the second quarter you start selling it as a couple
Speaker 1: of defensive stalwarts and the you know, chess match between
Speaker 1: ten coaches a defensive quarters. Looking at me, he's got
Speaker 1: a pencil behind his just right, Oh, he's serious. He's
Speaker 1: got a pencil behind his ear. Like he just pulls
Speaker 1: up his play sheet in front of his mouth. He's upset.
Speaker 1: He is upset with that last alignments. So the road
Speaker 1: to the rematch in the NFC Championship game, the Giants
Speaker 1: have to change quarterbacks. Phil Simms breaks his foot week
Speaker 1: fifteen against Buffalo and Jeff Hoss Stetler comes in. Now
Speaker 1: you all know what he did in the Super Bowl
Speaker 1: and winning, but it's not like he him in and
Speaker 1: started throwing touchdowns all over the place. The Giants still
Speaker 1: won games squeakers because of their defense. They beat Chicago,
Speaker 1: sorry buddy, in their divisional playoff games. Tom Zack, you
Speaker 1: Mike tom Zack through two picks. Neil Anderson only ran
Speaker 1: for nineteen yards. They crushed Chicago in this game. I
Speaker 1: just remember always Jimmy the Greek. I like Anderson, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he bugs. He was obsessed with the with Neil Anderson,
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure why I remember. This is also
Speaker 1: the NFL where we're still running with three divisions and
Speaker 1: then three wild cards, so it's still the old format
Speaker 1: as you roll through. But yes, I'm gonna do everything
Speaker 1: I can to deflect thinking about tom Zack in the Bears. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, the Giants win this game pretty easy, and
Speaker 1: their formula is very simple. We control the football, Hosteller
Speaker 1: makes plays when he has to make more plays with
Speaker 1: his legs, and Phil Simms does we're gonna run the football, Well,
Speaker 1: we're gonna play great defense, and that's how we're gonna win.
Speaker 1: And that was the Giants. Hosteller had to complete ten
Speaker 1: passes in that game. You know ten, do you times
Speaker 1: you gotta throw the ball? Ten? No? Get this ten
Speaker 1: of seventeen one, twelve and two touchdowns. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: back to that game and it's just maddening. It's like
Speaker 1: you're not even forcing the issue. So this is where
Speaker 1: the Giants and forty Niners meet in a legendary NFC
Speaker 1: Championship game, a game that turned on three plays and
Speaker 1: one play that I don't think the forty Niners ever
Speaker 1: got over. That's coming up next right here on special teams.
Speaker 1: So we are all set for the NFC Championship Game
Speaker 1: for the ages, the Giants and the forty Niners. And
Speaker 1: just like the first game Today Night Football that they
Speaker 1: played earlier in the year, this was a defensive struggle.
Speaker 1: Matt Barr and Mike co for the two field goal
Speaker 1: kickers exchange field goals. It's six six at halftime. There
Speaker 1: was really only one offensive play all the way up
Speaker 1: till the fourth quarter. This was a sixty one yard
Speaker 1: touchdown pass from Joe Montana to John Taylor. Everson Walls
Speaker 1: goes for the interception, he misses it. It's the only
Speaker 1: touchdown of the game. It gives the forty nine is
Speaker 1: a thirteen seven lead. Even though they didn't really score.
Speaker 1: Montana played well. I mean, look, this turned out to
Speaker 1: be the last game he would start for the forty niners.
Speaker 1: But he was eighteen out of twenty six for one
Speaker 1: ninety a touchdown. But you're only gonna get so much
Speaker 1: against this Giants defense, Mike, so it's not surprising that
Speaker 1: they shut him down as much. But still from Montana,
Speaker 1: this was a pretty decent game. Yeah, I mean, certainly
Speaker 1: not expecting a scoring fest with these two teams getting
Speaker 1: after Montana. The clean sheet, the big thing. You're looking
Speaker 1: for his turnovers, right, that's where the Giants feast did
Speaker 1: over the course of the season. Eighteen six not exactly
Speaker 1: world beating. And let's face it, when we got to
Speaker 1: halftime and you're talking six six, you know in the
Speaker 1: when we're talking about having events with no fans, that
Speaker 1: would be the reaction. Anyway, It was six six halftime.
Speaker 1: A lot of folks looking around like what are we
Speaker 1: doing here? Like there's no cheering and so whatever. The
Speaker 1: halftime entertainment was, uh, starts rolling up. So eighteen and
Speaker 1: twenty six one absorbed three sacks. It's not world beating,
Speaker 1: it's not flashy. But again, owing to the the box
Speaker 1: scores of the time, we weren't lighting it up all
Speaker 1: over the field. And I still thought the Niners were
Speaker 1: gonna win this game because they always pulled out games
Speaker 1: like this. And we look this, This is the Niners
Speaker 1: going for a three pet No one had ever done that,
Speaker 1: and you're used to seeing them. Hey, when when the
Speaker 1: players get big, the Niners are the team that make them.
Speaker 1: And we go to the you know, we go in
Speaker 1: to the fourth quarter of this and the Niners have
Speaker 1: the lead, and there was no way I thought they
Speaker 1: weren't gonna win this game. Well that's it. And then
Speaker 1: one big play Joe Cool at the helm. You're talking
Speaker 1: about all those veterans, all these would be in future
Speaker 1: Hall of Famer's hell, all these years later, we're still
Speaker 1: fighting over how many more of these guys should be
Speaker 1: getting in. No inches given on either side, so he
Speaker 1: earned every one of those extra points. This game goes
Speaker 1: to the fourth quarter with the forty Niners holding a
Speaker 1: thirteen nine lead, and this is where the game turns.
Speaker 1: Early in the fourth quarter, Jeff Hostetler gets hitting the
Speaker 1: knees by Niners DT and former Giant Jim Burt Right
Speaker 1: hostetlerhould come in and played pretty well for Phil Simms. Uh,
Speaker 1: since Sim's got hurt. Hostetler was okay. But the Giants,
Speaker 1: to a man said that fired them up and when
Speaker 1: they got back on the field they wanted payback because
Speaker 1: they thought Bert hit Hostetler illegally. Now again, Hostetler comes
Speaker 1: back in and plays, but the next forty Niners drive,
Speaker 1: Joe Montana rolls out away from pressure. Lawrence Taylor's coming in,
Speaker 1: he evades him. He rolls out looking down field, and
Speaker 1: this is the part that that gets George Seafort forty
Speaker 1: head coaches that on this play, John Taylor was wide
Speaker 1: open way down field, and another second or a half
Speaker 1: second and Montana is able to at least release this
Speaker 1: pass and maybe it's a touchdown and the game's over.
Speaker 1: But instead Montana gets hit by Leonard Marshall harder than
Speaker 1: I've ever seen him hit in his entire NFL career.
Speaker 1: Marshall just crumples him from behind. You see this video
Speaker 1: of it, It's it's Montana looking like he's gonna throw
Speaker 1: and then suddenly you can see the pain on his
Speaker 1: face as his body contorts. Bruce Sternham broken finger on
Speaker 1: his throwing hand and a concussion. Montana is knocked out
Speaker 1: of the game. He stays on the ground for a
Speaker 1: good couple of minutes. The ball comes loose, but the
Speaker 1: Niners recovered so at least they hold onto the ball.
Speaker 1: Marshall said it was the biggest play of his NFL career,
Speaker 1: And I mean, I have never seen Joe Montana hit
Speaker 1: that hard. And to think about that's how he really
Speaker 1: went out as a forty Niner. He already had back
Speaker 1: trouble and this hit did him in and it was,
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, look at what just happened to Joe Montana. Well,
Speaker 1: this is one of the big pushes where he eventually
Speaker 1: started uh hawking for anything that had copper in it,
Speaker 1: trying to get himself back into in shape a copper belt,
Speaker 1: so I can be okay with us, No, that's just it,
Speaker 1: after just getting absolutely obliterated, uh in this particular play.
Speaker 1: And and you recognize guys have their shelf lives, and
Speaker 1: and you see how many big hits they take, and
Speaker 1: some some are more damaging that aren't that egregious on tape, right,
Speaker 1: we know the obvious when there's the Joe Thiesman and
Speaker 1: and some of the big hits we've seen layout quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: But you go through the process some of those that
Speaker 1: are the innocuous, and they got taken down a little
Speaker 1: bit awkwardly, and then you go back and look and
Speaker 1: it's like, all right, his ankle bent this way, or
Speaker 1: his knee buckled a little bit here as he got hit,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden you recognize, Wow, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of damage. Uh that was later diagnosed. And for
Speaker 1: Joe Montana that the years have already taken a bunch
Speaker 1: of hits add up and you already had the air apparent.
Speaker 1: So that's the other part that hangs in the balance
Speaker 1: here of well, not quite a percent. Not Joe cool.
Speaker 1: And the fact that you hung an oul on him here,
Speaker 1: that's huge. So Montana comes out of the game and
Speaker 1: the Giants get the ball back down thirteen nine, but
Speaker 1: the Niners defense holds and then the Giants play number
Speaker 1: two that turned this game for them in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 1: Three big plays. Leonard Marshall was the first. This one
Speaker 1: was the second down thirteen nine. They're punting from their
Speaker 1: own forty one yard line, and they call a fake
Speaker 1: punt and Gary reasons who's a linebacker? And the up
Speaker 1: back runs for thirty yards only the kick return the
Speaker 1: punt returner stopped him from getting in the end zone.
Speaker 1: This is a linebacker that shouldn't be running for more
Speaker 1: than seven or eight yards in the first down. This
Speaker 1: completely took the forty niners by surprise. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: watch them go go No one taking him down. They
Speaker 1: completely had no idea this was coming. Now, the defense
Speaker 1: stiffens and holds and holds the Giants to a field goal.
Speaker 1: But this play that this is one of the one
Speaker 1: of the most gutsiest calls you'll possibly see. When it's
Speaker 1: a one score game from your own forty one yard line,
Speaker 1: you're gonna bring in a new quarterback, Steve Young, with
Speaker 1: a short field when you're gonna give him, you know,
Speaker 1: just get a few yards for what could be a
Speaker 1: game clinching field goal. What a guts he called by
Speaker 1: Bill Parcels and the Giants, and this, you know, makes
Speaker 1: it a one point game with just a few minutes
Speaker 1: left to go. I've probably watched this play now fifty
Speaker 1: times since you and I started talking about this game.
Speaker 1: There's no rhyme or reason to it, right, just a
Speaker 1: brilliant call executed perfectly, and you can just see the
Speaker 1: San Francisco response, like he's fifteen twenty yards before he
Speaker 1: gets touched. So it's thirteen twelve, there's five and a
Speaker 1: half minutes left in the game. The Niners get the
Speaker 1: ball back, and here comes Steve Young. Steve Young who
Speaker 1: had been the quarterback and waiting for a long time,
Speaker 1: and now obviously his time was coming sooner after that
Speaker 1: Joe Montana hit. But this is not Steve Young, future
Speaker 1: Hall of Famer. This is Steve Young, who has a
Speaker 1: lot of talent but still has not gotten a lot
Speaker 1: of chances, not a lot of reps, and he comes
Speaker 1: into the game cold, trying to kill the clock and
Speaker 1: hope the forty Niners can win the game. Now, he
Speaker 1: threw exactly one pass in this game. He throws a
Speaker 1: twenty five yard completion of Brent Jones, which gets the
Speaker 1: Niners out of the shadow of their own end zone,
Speaker 1: and then Roger Craig gets the first down in the
Speaker 1: six yard run. Right, this is how tough it was
Speaker 1: for the Niners. That was their first rushing first down
Speaker 1: of the day. And now you were down under three
Speaker 1: minutes and the Niners or maybe one first down away
Speaker 1: from winning. You know, Young has already completed one pass
Speaker 1: because look, Brent Jones gets behind the defense, the Giants
Speaker 1: bring him down. Young is feeling a little confident. Now,
Speaker 1: Roger Craig is feeling confident, and you're thinking, okay, boy,
Speaker 1: it's been a big run from the Giants. But still
Speaker 1: the Niners look like they have enough. And on the
Speaker 1: next to play, the Giants flood the box. Eric Howard,
Speaker 1: getting double teamed, forces a fumble with his helmet on
Speaker 1: Roger Craig. Roger Craig who had fumbled on the very
Speaker 1: first play of the game, but luckily San Francisco recovered
Speaker 1: so hey he had already had trouble holding on to
Speaker 1: the football once. Now Eric Howard just happens to get
Speaker 1: his helmet on the ball, and it's one of those
Speaker 1: plays where you can tell he just got hit earlier
Speaker 1: than expected, you know, because obviously with the Giants closing, look,
Speaker 1: everybody's trying to get in the backfield. He knows he's
Speaker 1: gonna get hit. He gets to the line, it looks
Speaker 1: like he's looking for a way to get out and
Speaker 1: he just gets hit earlier than he thought. The helmet
Speaker 1: hits the football, knocks it out, and Lawrence Taylor is
Speaker 1: right there to fall on the football. Giants ball, the
Speaker 1: Niners offenses off the field, and this is what is
Speaker 1: happening now, this, this this forty Niners dynasty is now
Speaker 1: crumbling because the Giants don't like you can't kill him.
Speaker 1: It's like Jason Vorhees in a Frinda of the Thirteenth movie.
Speaker 1: Do you think the Giants are dead? All right? But
Speaker 1: they get this one play? All right? But now they're dead.
Speaker 1: I had to get one more play, all right, But
Speaker 1: now they're dead. No, Now they're in control of the
Speaker 1: game and can win it with a field goal because
Speaker 1: they have the football, they have time left and it's
Speaker 1: not a lot of it's not a lot of yards
Speaker 1: they have to get to for a game winning field goal.
Speaker 1: He fumbled twice in a hundred sixties six touches during
Speaker 1: the regular season. Over the course of his career, fumbled
Speaker 1: forty two times. Then one that comes up absolutely huge
Speaker 1: here because you talk about the potential to keep this
Speaker 1: train running one last time, right, the last dance? How
Speaker 1: do I owe so many money for no, no, no,
Speaker 1: it's okay. It's not like Michael Buffer or pat Riley.
Speaker 1: Riley's not gonna come through my phone line waving at me.
Speaker 1: You fine, You're absolutely fine. So yeah, I mean their
Speaker 1: last run. I mean with with Montana um Buckling and
Speaker 1: that back eotomy in order and some of the other
Speaker 1: veterans that we look at on either side of the ball.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is it. And for Roger Craig, this
Speaker 1: could have been a career to find uh and instead
Speaker 1: it is the other way. He won't talk about it,
Speaker 1: like it's a really tough thing to get him to
Speaker 1: talk about that fumble, and you've got a feeling that
Speaker 1: he looks back. What's my one regret? What's the big
Speaker 1: regret of my career? That fumble? Because that said that
Speaker 1: stopped to three peat. If he doesn't fumble and they
Speaker 1: don't turn the ball over, do they really stop the Niners?
Speaker 1: They have to Niners have to not get a first
Speaker 1: down pun it, and the Giants have to drive down
Speaker 1: the field enough to get Matt barn range for a
Speaker 1: field goal. We'll get to Matt Barmore in a couple
Speaker 1: of seconds. So if he doesn't fumble, he said, that's
Speaker 1: we're legendary. We're three time defending Super Bowl champions. But
Speaker 1: he fumbles. The Giants takeover and Jeff hoss Stetler makes
Speaker 1: a couple of huge plays because they still had to
Speaker 1: drive to get into field goal range. He has a
Speaker 1: huge completion of Mark Bavaro, a huge one to Steven Baker, who, oh,
Speaker 1: by the way, would have you know, a couple of
Speaker 1: big plays in the Super Bowl, and that sets up
Speaker 1: Matt bar for the game winning field goal on the
Speaker 1: final play and they win the game. Fifteen thirteen. Now
Speaker 1: I told you watching this game, I remember the Niners
Speaker 1: winning this and you feel like, Okay, they're gonna find
Speaker 1: a way to win. But going back to watch this
Speaker 1: again for this episode, obviously knowing how the game ended,
Speaker 1: but now I watched it from the perspective of boy,
Speaker 1: you just feel like in the fourth quarter, no matter
Speaker 1: how tough it was, the Giants were gonna make one
Speaker 1: more play than the Niners and they were gonna win.
Speaker 1: And that's really what they did. They made one more
Speaker 1: play than the forty Niners to win this football game.
Speaker 1: One play is gonna decide it. Right. There's nobody running
Speaker 1: away and hiding, nor did you have the inclination that
Speaker 1: that was ever going to happen. So you're slowly just
Speaker 1: inching up in your seats, like watching horror movies like
Speaker 1: you like to do. Right. You always wanted to be
Speaker 1: the old guy sitting on the porch warning anybody and
Speaker 1: then having a close circuit television whereabout you could watch
Speaker 1: the carnage because they didn't listen something here, there's the anticipation,
Speaker 1: but that big play never comes, that breakaway plane never
Speaker 1: comes except on the form of the Roger Craig fumble
Speaker 1: and as the old man on the lawn drinking your
Speaker 1: Bartles and James with your straw hat going. I told
Speaker 1: you you had the famous patch summer all call. There
Speaker 1: will be no three pt that Niners fans can still here. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know the shock of the Giants winning this. Remember
Speaker 1: Lawrence Taylor after the game was asked about the win
Speaker 1: and he said, yeah, we won. Nobody believed in us,
Speaker 1: and we're going to the Super Bowl. We're gonna win
Speaker 1: that game too. And it was shocking how the Giants
Speaker 1: were able to do this and and win this game.
Speaker 1: But really underrated. All right, you had Matt Barr made
Speaker 1: five out of six field goals in this game at Candlestick,
Speaker 1: which is not the easiest place in the world to kick.
Speaker 1: Did you ever get to a game there? Yes, I
Speaker 1: did actually get to a game Candlestick. Candle is that
Speaker 1: that place was a whole and it was impossible to
Speaker 1: get out of. Yeah, oh yeah. Well they had the
Speaker 1: fog though, and the fog is always fun. The well
Speaker 1: what the fog rolling in? Just like seeing you're saying
Speaker 1: the fog rolling in made it seem like it was
Speaker 1: a really great field, but it wasn't. You see the
Speaker 1: divots in the field and you're kicking forty yard field goals,
Speaker 1: which it's not like now where if you're kicking from
Speaker 1: forty yards out, your kickers gotta make it. We have
Speaker 1: better kickers now than we've ever had in the NFL.
Speaker 1: This is five to six and three of them for
Speaker 1: forty yards out. That's about as unlikely as you can get,
Speaker 1: you know. And this is from a guy who was
Speaker 1: doubtful for the game earlier in the week because he
Speaker 1: heard his neck against the Bears and he was only
Speaker 1: kicking for the Giants because raoula Legra got hurt earlier
Speaker 1: in the year. That's how unlikely this was. And here's
Speaker 1: Matt Barr Giants hero five field goals in the NFC
Speaker 1: Championship game. Almost didn't play and almost didn't even kick
Speaker 1: for the team. Like we always talk about, you're gonna
Speaker 1: find a hero from an unknown source right one big play,
Speaker 1: whether it's that backup linebacker who's in for a player
Speaker 1: two because the guy needs to blow on a long
Speaker 1: protracted drive and all of a sudden he's got the
Speaker 1: fresh legs, or the kicker return comes up and put
Speaker 1: you in good field position. Here you actually celebrate the kicker.
Speaker 1: George Seafford after the game or later years said that game,
Speaker 1: he doesn't think the forty Niners ever forgave him for
Speaker 1: losing that game, like it was it was such a
Speaker 1: tough deal, and the Niners say this this centaur organ
Speaker 1: zation into a tail spin, and clearly it was the
Speaker 1: wasn't the end of the forty Niners dynasty. It was
Speaker 1: the end of the Joe Montana dynasty. And you know,
Speaker 1: for George Seaffort, it was, Hey, this game we were
Speaker 1: supposed to win. We had the NFC champion game at home,
Speaker 1: we were the best team in the NFL. We had
Speaker 1: them coming to our place and we still couldn't win
Speaker 1: this game, and it didn't quite send the forty Niners
Speaker 1: into a tailspin, but it completely changed them for the
Speaker 1: next few years. As crazy as that is, it changed
Speaker 1: the Giants worse. We have that more coming up next
Speaker 1: right here on the Special Teams podcast. Montana's end. What
Speaker 1: was up for the Niners and the Giants in their
Speaker 1: future following this game? So what was next for both
Speaker 1: of these teams, the Giants and the forty Niners, the
Speaker 1: best teams in the National Football League follow wingc Championship game.
Speaker 1: It actually turned out to be somewhat of the end
Speaker 1: of an error for both teams because as great as
Speaker 1: they were this moment in time, and the Giants had
Speaker 1: one more week because they won the Super Bowl in
Speaker 1: the game, in one of the most historic Super Bowl
Speaker 1: games ever, both of these Titanic franchises had to turn
Speaker 1: the page. The Niners turned the page a little bit better.
Speaker 1: The Giants turned it way worse. But of course, the
Speaker 1: Niners turned the page without Joe Montana, who up until
Speaker 1: that point was the best quarterback in the history of
Speaker 1: the NFL. Well, it's a nice fallback option, right again.
Speaker 1: You spent a lot of money on because that was
Speaker 1: the other thing going back to the seat for comment
Speaker 1: of our second segment here was you thought you had
Speaker 1: the guy, even in a pressure pack situation without a
Speaker 1: lot of reps, that it would just be a seamless transition,
Speaker 1: and unfortunately five thirty left in the game wasn't enough
Speaker 1: to make it happen. But we're talking about two of
Speaker 1: the storied franchise in the National Football League and they
Speaker 1: go in very different directions here as to the futures.
Speaker 1: So the Giants win the Super Bowl and you think, okay,
Speaker 1: they're just gonna continue on with his dynasty. After the season,
Speaker 1: Bill Parcels retires. Tom Coughlin has offered the job, but
Speaker 1: leaves to become the head coach at Boston College. I
Speaker 1: don't want to take over for Bill Parcels, the guy's
Speaker 1: alleged he just won two Super Bowls. Instead, running backs
Speaker 1: coach Ray Handley gets the job. Bill Belichick has passed
Speaker 1: over for the head coaching job. So the Giants could
Speaker 1: have had Bill Belichick, No could have had Tom Coughlin,
Speaker 1: No guys that have combined for eight Super Bowls, And
Speaker 1: instead they hire Ray Handley, who was widely viewed as
Speaker 1: one of the worst head coaches in NFL history. I mean,
Speaker 1: the Giants players didn't like him. It was one of
Speaker 1: those situations where right away you knew how long is
Speaker 1: Hanley really gonna be here? How long? I mean, because
Speaker 1: it's not gonna be very long, because this is just
Speaker 1: not working with the New York Giants. He didn't like
Speaker 1: Bill Belichick's leadership abilities. That's what George Young said. He
Speaker 1: didn't like him. He had a negative review when it
Speaker 1: came to Belichick's billed to lead. Think about that for
Speaker 1: just a second. You may not like the way Bill
Speaker 1: Belichick goes about his business. You as a Jets fan,
Speaker 1: hate him for a million reasons, but leadership ability is
Speaker 1: never something you've ever put into your mouth as questioning.
Speaker 1: Right when we talk about the pantheon of NFL coaches,
Speaker 1: we just commemorated the life and times of Jerry Stiller recently,
Speaker 1: you passed away at ninety two, famously playing Vince Lombardi
Speaker 1: in a series of ads. Uh, And we talked about
Speaker 1: perennial just dominant coaches. Bill for two decades is the
Speaker 1: the leader among all leaders. I mean there's Ted talks
Speaker 1: and things where folks trying to clean any insight from
Speaker 1: two seconds of audio on a on a postgame press conference.
Speaker 1: And here he couldn't get the job because, um, I
Speaker 1: guess Handley went to Stanford. I guess that's where it
Speaker 1: got because he was a smart guy that went to Stanford. Well,
Speaker 1: and also, you know, look, the thing about Belichick's leadership
Speaker 1: is that he needed to break a few eggs with
Speaker 1: the Browns when he finally got the head coaching job.
Speaker 1: You know, if later he made mistakes. Right here, you're
Speaker 1: cutting Bernie Kosar and people are picketing, and boy, you
Speaker 1: gotta really do things a little bit differently. And then
Speaker 1: he out right, but then he figured things out. Oh,
Speaker 1: if I get the other team's plays, things are a
Speaker 1: lot easier. I draft Tom Brad Hey, hey, hey, And
Speaker 1: you know it wasn't so widely, you know, out of
Speaker 1: the realms there. I don't don't know about Bill Belichick's
Speaker 1: you know, leadership abilities. But still you know, at the
Speaker 1: time nobody knew. But still you look back and go, man,
Speaker 1: they could have had either one would be a great job.
Speaker 1: Instead they get Ray Handley, I mean Handley who presides
Speaker 1: over the Giants and in the following season, Simson Hostetler
Speaker 1: battle it out. Hostetler wins the job, but then he
Speaker 1: gets hurt. Sims finishes the season. They go eight Nate.
Speaker 1: Things are not the same. A year later, Ray Handley
Speaker 1: is fired and suddenly, as as much as you thought, well,
Speaker 1: the Giants are gonna be one of those teams that
Speaker 1: they win Super Bowls every couple of years, nope, it
Speaker 1: was over. It was over, and there into trying to
Speaker 1: make things work with Dave Brown is their quarterback, and
Speaker 1: you know, can Rodney Hampton be someone that carries the
Speaker 1: load for us? And things change for the Giants really fast.
Speaker 1: You go from where they were standing on top of
Speaker 1: the Football World NFC Championship game, Lawrence Taylor, this defense
Speaker 1: playing as well as they are parcels, and then two
Speaker 1: years later, not only is it over, it looks like
Speaker 1: this error was a bygone era and it was like
Speaker 1: twenty years ago. They had all these guys as we
Speaker 1: always talk about how blink of an eye, I mean,
Speaker 1: and nothing changes faster than an NFL team, whether guys
Speaker 1: age out right and they just can't play anymore, or
Speaker 1: you have situations like the Seahawks that we talked about
Speaker 1: so often. That man is one of the great case
Speaker 1: studies for building a franchise and also watching its timeline
Speaker 1: right here with the Giants, who was well, we hired
Speaker 1: the wrong coach, and watch how quickly this can disintegrate.
Speaker 1: For the forty Niners, things are a little differently because
Speaker 1: it wasn't just the end from Montana UH in the
Speaker 1: off season. Roger Craig and Ronny Lott left unprotected UH
Speaker 1: in the off season draft, which which they used to
Speaker 1: have back in the nineties, and both wind up going
Speaker 1: to the Raiders, you know, and and and just think
Speaker 1: about from Montana's career and the way it does. Roger
Speaker 1: Craig's career ends with a fumble. And the only reason
Speaker 1: we don't talk more about that is it's overshadowed by
Speaker 1: Joe Montana because Montana would try to come back and
Speaker 1: play the next season and he would blow out his
Speaker 1: elbow in the preseason, so he misses all of nine
Speaker 1: and into this is Montana coming back from all these injuries,
Speaker 1: blows out his elbow and now he's thirty four, thirty
Speaker 1: five years old, and the Niners, no, we have to
Speaker 1: move on at this point, all right. They know that
Speaker 1: Montana is huge and he's part of their past, but
Speaker 1: they gotta move on. Steve Young gets the job because
Speaker 1: Montana gets hurt. He winds up winning the passing title
Speaker 1: the first year, but the Niners missed the playoffs. But
Speaker 1: it didn't matter because it was now Steve Young's team.
Speaker 1: You know, they knew we have to make this move.
Speaker 1: We have to make the transition. It's not gonna be
Speaker 1: very popular, but we gotta move on to Steve Young's team.
Speaker 1: So they go into and Steve Young is the quarterback
Speaker 1: and they go fourteen in two and that cementsent. Montana
Speaker 1: plays one more game for the forty Niners in a
Speaker 1: meaningless Monday night football game on December against Detroit. San
Speaker 1: Francisco had the number one seed clinched. Montana comes off
Speaker 1: the bench, throws a couple of touchdowns and over a
Speaker 1: hundred yards in the second half against the Lions and
Speaker 1: they win twenty four to six. But that was it.
Speaker 1: Montana's last game as a forty Niner only came in
Speaker 1: to mop up for Steve Young. I mean, that was it.
Speaker 1: You knew Montana was gone after that year, and the
Speaker 1: Niners they go to the NFC Championship game. They play
Speaker 1: the Cowboys, Steve Young has a bad game. He throws
Speaker 1: a couple of interceptions, and shockingly, for that game only,
Speaker 1: I'm really surprised they didn't go back to Joe Montana.
Speaker 1: I mean, this was Steve Young's first taste of the playoffs.
Speaker 1: You're the guy now, and he doesn't play very well,
Speaker 1: and it was certainly it wasn't all his fault. But
Speaker 1: you're looking for some kind of spark, and you have
Speaker 1: the best quarterback in history. The NFL is pretty fresh,
Speaker 1: you know, and just you know, he just showed you
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago. Hey, I can I can
Speaker 1: come off the bench in the middle of a game
Speaker 1: and get it done. I know this offense. I'm really
Speaker 1: surprised for a spark, they didn't try to go to
Speaker 1: Joe Montana in this game he never played, starts singing
Speaker 1: about he can't go home again? Right is? I guess
Speaker 1: what the decision was in real time on the sidelines,
Speaker 1: going all right, we go back here. We got ourselves
Speaker 1: a problem. I say, you know, we gotta be heroes,
Speaker 1: if only for one day. Steal from David Bowie as
Speaker 1: you go. I mean, whatever disruption in the locker room,
Speaker 1: you're you're trying to succeed and proceed. But yeah, the
Speaker 1: decisions made to leave him in mothballs. Uh, and and
Speaker 1: away you go, and then we move on and we
Speaker 1: get the weird Joe Montana's running around in a Kansas
Speaker 1: City Chiefs uniform with success s minds you but still uh.
Speaker 1: You know, we talked about the other members of the
Speaker 1: forty nine ers finishing their run. It's it's odd, right,
Speaker 1: It's always odd when a guy like I, I celebrate
Speaker 1: the dude walking around with the Rams Nameth jersey when
Speaker 1: I went to see the Bears Rams this past year. Uh,
Speaker 1: But didn't mean it didn't look odd the entire time
Speaker 1: as I was staring at him. Likewise, Montana had success
Speaker 1: with the Chiefs, but it's never gonna look right. It
Speaker 1: just hits the brain wrong every time. You know, It's
Speaker 1: not that he didn't play great with the Chiefs. He
Speaker 1: played well. He staved off his NFL mortality, looked like
Speaker 1: playoffs a couple of times. He had some big moments.
Speaker 1: He had a big Monday Night win over the Broncos,
Speaker 1: but clearly it was getting to the end. His body
Speaker 1: had betrayed him, and as difficult of a choice as
Speaker 1: it was the Niners made the right call. They had
Speaker 1: to go to Steve You look, Steve Young goes on
Speaker 1: when Super Bowls becomes a Hall of Fame player. It
Speaker 1: wasn't as popular, but I think even the fans knew,
Speaker 1: all right, at some point, Steve Young, he's got to
Speaker 1: play right, he's pretty good. So even though it was controversial,
Speaker 1: it wasn't that it wasn't like, oh my goodness, you know,
Speaker 1: we're benching a superstar for a guy that's never done anything.
Speaker 1: I mean, this was Steve Young was brought in to
Speaker 1: do this, and he set for four years. I mean,
Speaker 1: he sat for a long time. He didn't get the
Speaker 1: starting job to he was thirty. You know, this is
Speaker 1: all right, you know we gotta see Steve Young, and
Speaker 1: you know, hey, that kept the dynasty somewhat going. Albeit
Speaker 1: it was different players, a different push. It was still
Speaker 1: Jerry Rice who was the constant from Montana three Young,
Speaker 1: but it was it was a lot of different players
Speaker 1: and and the Niners knew, okay, we gotta make this.
Speaker 1: It's tough, and they did it. And clearly, what were
Speaker 1: they gonna do? Could Montana have one other games? You
Speaker 1: know later on, would he have stayed healthy enough to win.
Speaker 1: Young was a different dynamic, and he was able to
Speaker 1: get outside the pocket and make plays with his legs,
Speaker 1: and he was really difficult to defend. And you know,
Speaker 1: look the Niners kept it going, so clearly, how was
Speaker 1: the right choice? Yeah, I mean think about that now.
Speaker 1: Four years, four years, right, he comes over from Tampa Bay.
Speaker 1: You have the USFL high price guy, a lot of expectations,
Speaker 1: and four years, I mean in recent memory, you go
Speaker 1: from the far of Rogers relationship and we we fast
Speaker 1: forward to and now it's well as that Aaron Rodgers
Speaker 1: and Jordan's love and everybody's getting their popcorn ready to
Speaker 1: see how that goes, right, whether it's still the same apprenticeship.
Speaker 1: Insert your obligatory Star Wars reference here, which I know
Speaker 1: you will. But the idea of being you don't you
Speaker 1: don't sit right unless you're just some backup journeyman dude,
Speaker 1: just kind of hanging in the weeds and they like
Speaker 1: you enough to where they're eventually going to promote you.
Speaker 1: You don't have these kinds of situations, right. It comes
Speaker 1: to a head a lot faster either. Steve Young would
Speaker 1: be fighting saying this is not the right situation I
Speaker 1: need out or Joe Montana would have. I mean, just
Speaker 1: think about that for a second. To go back in
Speaker 1: time as we finish up here. If going into the
Speaker 1: NFC Champions of Game, Niners are going for a three pece.
Speaker 1: If I said to you watch this game's the last game,
Speaker 1: Joe Montana is gonna start for the Niners, you just
Speaker 1: said you're crazy. Yeah, I'll bet any amount of money
Speaker 1: this is wrong. And I just think about how that
Speaker 1: turned out because that that's the one thing about both
Speaker 1: of these teams, is that to go back to right
Speaker 1: before this game and think about where they were, you
Speaker 1: would have said the good times are going to continue
Speaker 1: to roll for both of these teams, and instead it
Speaker 1: was it was change and it was different directions for
Speaker 1: both of them. Absolutely insane. Ill, how about a little
Speaker 1: where are they now? Where? A little where are they now? Well,
Speaker 1: you got my guy, Bran Jones. I'm gonna start with him, uh,
Speaker 1: a guy who I once had a great conversation at
Speaker 1: an East West Shrine game practice with him and Jerry
Speaker 1: Jones and Hayden Fry of the Iowah Haws. So you
Speaker 1: from the Coach Show, Hayden Fox, Because I love the show.
Speaker 1: I like the Jerry Van Dot character too. He's pretty fun.
Speaker 1: One of those where you wish you had a digital
Speaker 1: camera back in the day so you can take a
Speaker 1: selfie because I'm standing on the sideline. Uh. And it
Speaker 1: was suddenly like I was a scout. It's a beautiful
Speaker 1: thing business around your neck? Hey, can I can? Can
Speaker 1: we get a nice polaroid like I'm in Rocky three? Right? Uh?
Speaker 1: He went in the big investment in Northgate Capital venture
Speaker 1: capital private equity firm, did some broadcasting, uh, and then
Speaker 1: got into politics a bit. Uh, So we've got that. Uh.
Speaker 1: He coached monte Vista High all the way back where
Speaker 1: he actually coached Zach Ertz, one of our favorite players
Speaker 1: to watch as you roll through. You mentioned Raoul leg
Speaker 1: Gray a bit earlier. Monday Night Football for Latin America
Speaker 1: is where he headed Matt Barr two times Super Bowl
Speaker 1: champion and hero here. Uh. He's an electrical engineer. You've
Speaker 1: got gary reasons. We had to talk about him. Why
Speaker 1: because he's the He was the coach at the Oklahoma
Speaker 1: Yard Dogs d A w Z. He also is one
Speaker 1: of the founders a Pro Athletes team. After a long
Speaker 1: broadcasting career. But the idea of hey, we all have
Speaker 1: these networks, right taking linked in for athletes more or less. Um, hey,
Speaker 1: you've got connections. You can help this guy, and you
Speaker 1: can help that guy. Let's all get together, uh and
Speaker 1: try to look out for everybody in terms of their
Speaker 1: wallets and their mental health. We talked about the bears
Speaker 1: of it earlier, and but I like Neil Anderson, so
Speaker 1: let's talk about him Gainesville, Florida. He helped start a
Speaker 1: bank and he owns a two thousand acre peanut farm. Peanuts,
Speaker 1: how about that? Leonard Marshall. Leonard Marshall one of the guys,
Speaker 1: one of the pioneers in terms of NFL players starting
Speaker 1: to do research on the positive effects of cannabis. UH.
Speaker 1: He was diagnosed with ct back in t UH and
Speaker 1: does speeches and talks about the positive effects that has
Speaker 1: had on his life. And then you've got Harry Sydney
Speaker 1: running back. Has a mentoring outfit I guess would be
Speaker 1: the a mentoring business and an outreach program called My
Speaker 1: Brother's Keeper. As we go through, he holds the the
Speaker 1: interesting tidbit of the only player to catch touchdowns from
Speaker 1: Joe Montana and Brent Farve. Wow, you know it's funny
Speaker 1: you mentioned rolla legre Alegree would go and kick for
Speaker 1: the Jets the following year because now the Giants had
Speaker 1: Matt Barr. Like, dude, you're a hero. Where to let
Speaker 1: you go? He winds up kicking for the Jets, right,
Speaker 1: and in his Jets career. I remember this because this
Speaker 1: was such a big game in the season finale against
Speaker 1: the Dolphins. He kicks the game tying field goal in
Speaker 1: the final minutes and then wins the game in overtime, right,
Speaker 1: And the kicks were huge, Like one of the kicks
Speaker 1: was like fifty three yards, And I always remember going,
Speaker 1: oh my god, rolla leg, what a hero gets us
Speaker 1: into the playoffs. It was awesome. The Jets were back
Speaker 1: in the playoffs for the first time in years. I
Speaker 1: was so excited. Right. So, years later, I'm hosting on
Speaker 1: ESPN Radio All Night and and he was doing uh
Speaker 1: like PN deport taste, like being an analyst for the
Speaker 1: Monday night game. So I had him on my show
Speaker 1: after the game was over to talk about the Monday
Speaker 1: Night game. So the first time he comes on, I
Speaker 1: go rule. First of all, I want to say thank
Speaker 1: you because I remember those two field goals you kicked
Speaker 1: for the Jets to get us to the playoffs, and
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. He goes, thank you so much. I
Speaker 1: remember those kicks so well. Thank you so much for
Speaker 1: bringing that. Suddenly Rule Legre was my guy, right he
Speaker 1: would come on every week for the rest of the season,
Speaker 1: and I remember those kicks you had, Man, those were
Speaker 1: two big kicks in my life. Thank you, and he
Speaker 1: was thank you so much. Great dude had him on
Speaker 1: every week. He was fantastic. That's fantastic. Oh. I love that.
Speaker 1: I love going into the histories made a lot of
Speaker 1: guys that end up in coaching and and in a
Speaker 1: lot of our episodes, you can't dismiss that because they're
Speaker 1: doing a lot of good thing and mentorship that flows
Speaker 1: through those coaching jobs. But every once in a while
Speaker 1: we get some some really real left turns of guys
Speaker 1: going into passion projects or maybe something they're family members
Speaker 1: and always talking about. Now they had the funds to
Speaker 1: do it. Uh. It's it's a fun part of the
Speaker 1: doing this special teams podcast each week. So there is
Speaker 1: our look back in NFC Championship Game, the Giants and
Speaker 1: the forty Niners, Montana's End. I'm Jason Smith. He's Mike Carmen.
Speaker 1: Our show on Fox Sports Radio airs Monday through Friday,
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Speaker 1: for a future Special Teams episode, A drop us a
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