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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff. I never told you are protection

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Speaker 2: if I heared you and today I thought I would

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Speaker 2: bring back this is an oldie kind of uh on

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Speaker 2: when we first talked about Sex and City on this

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Speaker 2: show before we'd like started our journey watching it, which,

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Speaker 2: by the way, we started in November twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 1: We're only in season three, aren't we.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, slow rowing, but we're moving along.

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Speaker 3: Is this our ode to the fact that and just

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Speaker 3: like that just got canceled?

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Speaker 4: Annie?

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Speaker 2: Yes, well I don't know if it was canceled, but

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Speaker 2: it's over. I don't know the specific details. Sure, yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: but also we haven't been able to do our watch

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Speaker 2: episodes of Sex in the City in a while, but

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Speaker 2: rest shirt, we have not forgotten. It will come back.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to really have to rack my brains for

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Speaker 2: when you ask me what happened.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to give you a huge heads up.

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Speaker 4: Because I don't usually look it up, but I might

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Speaker 4: have to. That could be funny. I'm not gonna.

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Speaker 1: Remember either, because I can't remember what episode was.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 2: No, but yes, we will return to it, and it's

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Speaker 2: always fun to hear from you all about this and

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Speaker 2: about the impact it had on you what character you are,

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Speaker 2: and this was kind of the beginning of that.

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Speaker 4: So please enjoy this classic episode.

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Speaker 2: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. How come to stuff

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Speaker 2: I've never told you? Production of iHeartRadio. So today I'm

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Speaker 2: very excited about what we're talking about. We are talking

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Speaker 2: about Sex and the City because, as a lot of

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Speaker 2: you probably heard, it is getting an HBO mini series

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Speaker 2: reboot seventeen years after it ended. Also, as you've probably heard,

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Speaker 2: Kim Cattrall's not going to be in it, but we

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Speaker 2: thought we would take a look at the show. And

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Speaker 2: I'm very excited about this for a lot of reasons.

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Speaker 2: But one of them is Samantha and I are coming

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Speaker 2: from very different places. So I have very little experience

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Speaker 2: with this, and you, Samantha, you have a lot. And

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Speaker 2: I wanted to ask as the question for the day,

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Speaker 2: like when did you get into Sex and the City,

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Speaker 2: Like how did it get on your radar?

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Speaker 4: That whole thing.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so just go ahead and preface this. This is

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Speaker 3: where our age difference is very obvious. Our interest for sure,

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Speaker 3: we've kind of known that we have different interests, but

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Speaker 3: our age difference.

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Speaker 1: I think it really highlights this.

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Speaker 3: Specifically through this because of course it came out in

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Speaker 3: ninety five, which I was fifteen at that point in time,

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Speaker 3: and of course I lived in the boonies of LJ, Georgia,

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Speaker 3: did not have cable, barely even had internet because I

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Speaker 3: had to travel in high school to my friends' homes

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Speaker 3: so I could write papers and research because I did

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Speaker 3: not have internet at home. So I say this and

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Speaker 3: that it took me five to six years to discover

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Speaker 3: the show, and because it was being replayed on things

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Speaker 3: like what is now CW, so they would have the

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Speaker 3: edited versions in syndicate and replayed, And I think I

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Speaker 3: did get into it before the movie actually came out.

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Speaker 3: Everything about this process seems to have some kind of

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Speaker 3: drama because of the Sex and the City movie didn't

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Speaker 3: actually happen until years later after it ended, after the

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Speaker 3: show ended, so I definitely got caught up in it

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Speaker 3: watching the series, and it wasn't until I think after

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Speaker 3: or the middle of college that I really started watching

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Speaker 3: it and really started getting obsessed with it. I got

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Speaker 3: obsessed with it enough that I bought all the DVDs.

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Speaker 3: So I'm going to say tour the finale timeframe, so

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Speaker 3: probably a couple of years after it actually ended, maybe

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Speaker 3: a year after it ended. I really got into it

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Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, I need to see all

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Speaker 3: of these I love everything about this.

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Speaker 1: Why can't this be my life?

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Speaker 3: And again sheltered Samantha, who's very religious through college, So

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Speaker 3: definitely it was very inward and isolated when it came

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Speaker 3: to the real world. I'll put this in quotes because

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Speaker 3: we all know this is not the real world, but

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Speaker 3: in my head, sure it was. You know, so I

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Speaker 3: definitely fell for this around that point in time.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I actually, in honor.

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Speaker 3: Of this episode, started rewatching the entire series and ong

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Speaker 3: we're just gonna leave it there. I will say I

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Speaker 3: never did make it to the second movie because the

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Speaker 3: first movie was uh yeah, oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about that a little bit. And I

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Speaker 2: say that I act as if I've seen it. I

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Speaker 2: have not, so yeah, and Samantha was she was even

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Speaker 2: workshopping a show where you're gonna rewatch all the episodes

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Speaker 2: and comments on them.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: Well, one of the reason was because I was with

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Speaker 3: a group of friends who happens to be for women

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Speaker 3: in our early thirties, late twenties. This is when this

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Speaker 3: was in my head and we were talking about sex,

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Speaker 3: and it was like for a couple of the women

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Speaker 3: that was there, it was brand new for them to

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Speaker 3: talk about their own personal sex life because it's not

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Speaker 3: something that happens. So when we were sitting there talking,

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Speaker 3: I started thinking about the fact that this feels like

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Speaker 3: an episode.

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Speaker 1: Of sex and this City. What the hell? But because it.

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Speaker 3: Is such a ridiculous show looking back, what I really

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Speaker 3: wanted to do was having an old host, Caroline, who

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Speaker 3: was so cynical and so funny and so sardonic as

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Speaker 3: I am, I to sit there because she's never seen

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Speaker 3: these either, I believe, so that we would sit there

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Speaker 3: and watch them and just have I guess YouTube about

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Speaker 3: reactions and commentary, because I think it'd be hilarious. It

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Speaker 3: is so ridiculous, and caroline reaction and my reactions to

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Speaker 3: things are so over the top, and then having you,

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Speaker 3: who would be like blushing half the time would be

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Speaker 3: hilarious to me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I did watch the first episode last night for

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Speaker 2: this and I was blushing.

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Speaker 4: I was embarrassed. I was alone and blushing at this show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So I've only seen parts of two episodes. I

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Speaker 2: remember them very well though, because there was one where

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Speaker 2: Samantha is at like a birthday party and Carrie needs

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Speaker 2: her helped getting out her diaphragm.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I was.

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Speaker 3: A kid, and I was like, whoa, those are two

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Speaker 3: different episodes.

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Speaker 2: But yes, oh really yes, Well then I don't know

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Speaker 2: what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 1: No, but you're correct.

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Speaker 3: So Samantha at the birthday party is a birthday party

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Speaker 3: for Miranda's son Brady, his first birthday party, and she

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Speaker 3: uh dies for bush.

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Speaker 4: Yes, and she does warn into the clown here. That's

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Speaker 4: what I yes.

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Speaker 1: And then they call her Boso the Bush.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, call it Boso the bush actually because it

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Speaker 3: turns orange.

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Speaker 1: And then the carry episode was in season two, I.

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Speaker 3: Believe because she's hiding the fact that she's back with

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Speaker 3: mister Big.

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Speaker 2: Oh see, I love this. I love when we do

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Speaker 2: an episode where one of us is like way more

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Speaker 2: of an expert.

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Speaker 3: Ridiculous one. I'm really sad that this is my expertise.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you. Oh I'm bad about it.

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Speaker 2: And then I remember one where like Charlotte is trying

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Speaker 2: to get out there, like carrying her out of some

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Speaker 2: kind of like self help talk. Oh, yeah, and Carrie's like,

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Speaker 2: she's out there. Trust me, if she's out there, I

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Speaker 2: remember that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the whole like self fulfillment.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, because she's trying to find a.

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Speaker 1: Man, her husband.

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Speaker 2: And then I do remember some kind of sex class

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Speaker 2: one with old people.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I just watched that last night.

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Speaker 4: Oh so that's early on. I huh.

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Speaker 3: So the diaphim one and the sex class is in

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Speaker 3: seasons one through two. The Samantha one is obviously later

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Speaker 3: because the kid is involved. And then Charlotte this is

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Speaker 3: after her divorce.

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Speaker 1: So this was also like mid like probably season three

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Speaker 1: or four or five.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I got this is awesome.

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Speaker 2: So well, I can't figure out how I saw them

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Speaker 2: because I also didn't have cable and I didn't really

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Speaker 2: have TV either, But somehow, some way, I remember I

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Speaker 2: told you this story, Samantha that in my high school,

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Speaker 2: we had a Civics teacher, Nicks. She was like a

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Speaker 2: sweet older lady and she loved sex and the city

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Speaker 2: and she wasn't shy about letting people know, and it

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Speaker 2: was kind of the source of gossip around the school

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Speaker 2: that she liked sex in the city.

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Speaker 4: And when I was in Australia.

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Speaker 2: I have a really funny memory of I managed to

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Speaker 2: convince half the group I was with so that they

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Speaker 2: were like kind of us to see the movie the

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Speaker 2: m Night Shyamalan film The Happening, which many of you

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Speaker 2: probably remember was awful, and the other half went to

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Speaker 2: see the Sex and the City movie. And afterwards everyone

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Speaker 2: but me, even the people who didn't see the Sex

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Speaker 2: and the City movie, agreed that the Sex and the

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Speaker 2: City movie was the better choice, and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: maybe was shorter. I'm sure it was more fun even

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Speaker 2: if it was bad.

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Speaker 1: You know, for what it was.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't awful, Like it really wasn't, but there was definitely,

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Speaker 3: just like in the show, a lot of problematic things

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Speaker 3: in this one as well, including the fat shaming for

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Speaker 3: Samantha because she gained half a pound, like she barely

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Speaker 3: had a pudge that you it was obvious that they

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Speaker 3: had to do a dress that was a cy smaller

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Speaker 3: than what she wore to push out her stomach and

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Speaker 3: you can see her stomach and they all make fun

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Speaker 3: of our It's kind of like I remember looking at

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Speaker 3: that and like, she that's gating weight because Dan, we

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Speaker 3: couldn't be friends.

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Speaker 2: I've noticed that because I've been rewatching Seinfeld lately, which

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Speaker 2: is where I learned a lot about sex. And it's

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Speaker 2: funny to me, like in the nineties, I feel like

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Speaker 2: there was this like super thin women being fat shamed.

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Speaker 4: You're like, what right? So Sex and the City was.

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Speaker 2: It was huge, and it was in part behind several

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Speaker 2: trends that I've talked about on the other show I

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Speaker 2: do saver the Cosmopolitan, the drink. Yeah, Sex and the

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Speaker 2: City popularized that the cupcake boom.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Sex and the City and brunch in part.

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Speaker 2: And some critics actually give this show the credit for

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Speaker 2: kickstarting HBO's rise.

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Speaker 3: Wait, but wasn't the Wire on before that? And the Sopranos,

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Speaker 3: And both of those are.

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Speaker 2: HBO, So I feel like Sopranos came around the same time.

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Speaker 2: And actually that leads to my next point, which is

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Speaker 2: critics a lot of times they point out the how

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Speaker 2: Sex and the City got kind of treated as this frivolous,

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Speaker 2: guilty pleasure that you should be ashamed of, whereas the

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Speaker 2: Sopranos got all this critical acclaim and people have pointed

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Speaker 2: out like, well, one of them is masculine and violent

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Speaker 2: and aggressive, and the others like feminine and funny and

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Speaker 2: comedic and romantic and which one do we give more

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Speaker 2: gravitas to or think is worth awards? And yeah, Sex

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Speaker 2: and the City was very very feminine. It was like

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Speaker 2: brashly feminine. So there's a lot of interesting discourse around that.

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Speaker 2: And then some people suggest that Carrie Bradshaw was one

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Speaker 2: of the first popular female anti heroes on TV, but.

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Speaker 3: You know, it took a long time for her to

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Speaker 3: get Yeah, originally everybody wanted to be her, but then

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Speaker 3: it became, oh god, she's seriously annoying.

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Speaker 1: Why won't she stop talking?

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Speaker 3: And it could be very well the case that it

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Speaker 3: kind of latched onto who Sarah Jessica Parker was, and

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Speaker 3: she started getting rumored as being not difficult necessarily because

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Speaker 3: people love her, but she demanded her do like she

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Speaker 3: asked for higher pay, she wanted the credit. She carried

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Speaker 3: the show essentially for the long while. And that's kind

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Speaker 3: of that whole thing is not only did that personality

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Speaker 3: start kind of getting annoying because there's only so much

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Speaker 3: that you want to hear someone complain about themselves, and

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Speaker 3: she kind of did, like towards the end, remind me

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Speaker 3: of friends that only came to talk to me about

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Speaker 3: their love life. You know, you people have friends like that,

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Speaker 3: but she's better than that. But it does start grading

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Speaker 3: on you.

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Speaker 1: But I think it also.

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Speaker 3: Kind of seeps in in that people had all of

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Speaker 3: these rumor mills to hate Sarah Esca Parker at that

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Speaker 3: point in time, and it was interesting to see.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and even now, actually, I.

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Speaker 3: Guess, so let's go ahead and jump into what it is.

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited about this, y'all.

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Speaker 3: So Sex and the City premiered in nineteen ninety eight

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Speaker 3: on HP, which I thought was ninety five, so I'm

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Speaker 3: way off. I guess I was leaving high school when

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Speaker 3: this came home and then ran until two thousand and four.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, all of these were syndicated on regular cable network,

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Speaker 3: so very heavily edited.

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Speaker 1: By the way, really odd.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure, hilariously strange.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, most of these episodes only last

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Speaker 3: twenty five minutes anyway, less than thirty minutes, so I

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Speaker 3: guess it was like eighteen minutes with tons of commercials.

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Speaker 3: So interesting, and overall the course of its run, there

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Speaker 3: was like ninety four episodes for over six seasons. Of course,

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Speaker 3: the first in this last season, I think we're a

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Speaker 3: little lesser. No, the last season was pretty long.

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Speaker 4: They had fewer episodes.

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Speaker 3: Well, the first season had very few episodes, like since

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Speaker 3: it was the pilot season. And of course two movies,

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Speaker 3: one in two thousand and eight, which yeah, four years

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Speaker 3: after the finale, and then the other in twenty ten,

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Speaker 3: a CW prequel series called The Carry Diaries, so which

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Speaker 3: I don't think lasted very long only yeah right, yeah, see,

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Speaker 3: it lasted from twenty thirteen to twenty fourteen. And now

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Speaker 3: we're talking about the new limited series which is going

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Speaker 3: to be and just like that, which is how she

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Speaker 3: kind of agan ended her movie stuff, I think. And

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Speaker 3: so it's an interesting take. And of course that's going

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Speaker 3: to be without Kim Katrol And if you've seen all

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Speaker 3: the memes about who they want to replace her, it's

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Speaker 3: quite fun.

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Speaker 4: I have not, but I am eager to look that up.

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Speaker 2: The show was created by Darren Starr, who's an openly

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Speaker 2: gay man, an executive produced by Michael Patrick King, who's

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Speaker 2: also an openly gay man, and written largely by white women,

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Speaker 2: who was in part adapted from Candace Bushnell's columns from

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Speaker 2: The New York Server. So Candace Bushnell, Carrie Bradshaw, who

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Speaker 2: was a self described sexual anthropologist who published a compilation

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Speaker 2: of these columns in her nineteen ninety seven book titled

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Speaker 2: Sex and the City. The show garnered fifty four IMMI

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Speaker 2: nominations maybe fifty five somewhere in there, and twenty four

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Speaker 2: Golden Globe nominations and numerous other awards, and has been

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Speaker 2: named by more than one critic as one of the

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Speaker 2: best television series of all time. For two years, it

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Speaker 2: was the highest rated comedy on cable television and time.

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Speaker 2: At one point, I had the four leading characters on the

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Speaker 2: cover with the headline who needs a husband?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: Which is really funny because the whole show is pretty

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Speaker 3: much based on men, huh, but also not needing men,

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Speaker 3: like not having men, being without men. It's the whole thing.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, So, speaking of which, the plot, so it

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Speaker 3: follows three women in their thirties, which is Carrie, Miranda,

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Speaker 3: and Charlotte, and one in her forties but she doesn't

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Speaker 3: ever tell really as they navigate their relationships and sex

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Speaker 3: of course in New York City. Yeah, man, I definitely

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Speaker 3: wanted to be in New York City. I thought that

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Speaker 3: was the life, right, yeah. When the show first begins,

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Speaker 3: only Charlotte is interested in marriage. Of course, she is

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Speaker 3: the for lack of better words, debutante of New York,

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Speaker 3: the sweet wasp that really desperately wants to have a family.

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Speaker 3: But they all have jobs that they enjoy, which is

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Speaker 3: really incredible, right, yeah, in itself, and friendships they find meaningful.

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Speaker 3: And I do appreciate that the friendships between the four

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Speaker 3: main character are at the part of the show, so

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Speaker 3: they were generally supportive.

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Speaker 1: And kind to each other.

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Speaker 3: They made each other laugh, It is amazing, and they

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Speaker 3: have a great time. As book ended yes with Carrie's

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Speaker 3: narration of her sex column as a way to frame

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Speaker 3: the episodes. Her first question, what if women had sex

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Speaker 3: like men? Ooh, which is what I was like. Okay,

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Speaker 3: you have to watch the first episode because it lays

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Speaker 3: out kind of the whole frame of the show. And

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Speaker 3: she writes recreationally and selfishly, with no need for emotional connection,

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Speaker 3: zero expectations of commitment, and little regard for the.

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Speaker 1: Feelings of their partners.

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Speaker 3: And of course she gives that example by hooking up

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Speaker 3: with an ex that she was madly in love with, apparently,

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Speaker 3: and then just walking away from him.

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Speaker 2: Of course, when the show debuted, it was new in

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Speaker 2: a lot of ways, especially when it came to depictions

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Speaker 2: of women and sex. It was one of the first

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Speaker 2: shows to have female characters in it that were over

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Speaker 2: thirty and weren't in this big rush to get married.

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Speaker 2: It was for the most part very anti settling. That

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Speaker 2: kind of changed, it progressed, but and it highlighted other

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Speaker 2: ways women could find fulfillment, whether it was a job

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Speaker 2: or a friend. It was one of their first shows

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Speaker 2: to focus on female friendship. Relationships and sex often do

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Speaker 2: come up as topics of conversation in this, but so

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Speaker 2: did things like infertility, motherhood, cancer, and career struggles, particularly

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Speaker 2: as women of a quote certain age, and women really

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Speaker 2: identified with these characters since the I'm Miranda or I'm

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Speaker 2: a carry.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's hilarious because it definitely seeped into

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Speaker 3: pop culture to use that as a term, and people

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Speaker 3: knew what that was like it said it in thirty Rock.

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Speaker 1: They made sure to.

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Speaker 3: Make fun of them as a whole episode and women

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Speaker 3: coming together and being feminine, girlly and giggly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really funny because at the end we're going

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Speaker 2: to go over like our test results or own quizes,

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Speaker 2: and I got like.

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Speaker 4: Not at all what I would have said. I would

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Speaker 4: have got it for me.

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Speaker 1: It was yeah, I knew this for you.

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Speaker 4: I was like, wait what, Yeah, no, I was. I

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Speaker 4: was shocked. I was like, really, this is news to me.

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Speaker 2: So each episode usually has four plots, one for each character,

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Speaker 2: two of them superficial, one of those sexulated, then too deeper,

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Speaker 2: and Carrie's almost always one of these two deeper storylines.

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Speaker 2: And all of these storylines are intertwined with Carrie's voiceover.

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Speaker 2: And I wanted to shout out Emily Nussbaum at The

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Speaker 2: New Yorker for a great breakdown. I used a lot

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Speaker 2: of what she wrote throughout this, So here's a quote

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Speaker 2: from her article. The Ford Friends operated as nearer allegorical

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Speaker 2: figures peg to contemporary debates about women's lives, mapped along

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Speaker 2: three overlapping continuums. The first was emotional. Carrie and Charlotte

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Speaker 2: were romantics, Miranda and Samantha were cynics. The second was ideological.

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Speaker 2: Brandon and Carrie were second wave feminists who believed in egalitarianism.

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Speaker 2: Charlotte and Samantha were third wave feminists focused on exploiting

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Speaker 2: the power of femininity from opposing angles. The third concern

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Speaker 2: sex itself. At first, Miranda and Charlotte were pruds, while

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Speaker 2: Samantha and Carrie were libertines. Unsettlingly, as the show progressed,

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Speaker 2: Carrie began to glide toward caution away from freedom out

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Speaker 2: of fear.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that was one of the biggest conversations.

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Speaker 3: Is she slowly changed from let's explore this to no,

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Speaker 3: I can't. And it seemed like maybe it's normal, that's

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Speaker 3: kind of like the growth, maturity whatever whatnot. But she

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Speaker 3: was the only one out of the three that seemed

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Speaker 3: like it was a thing. Maybe I overstate that as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's talk about the characters. Let's talk about

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Speaker 2: Carrie Bradshaw Lade by Sarah Jessica Parker, the show's protagonist, and,

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Speaker 2: not too surprisingly, towards the end of the series, she

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Speaker 2: was the least liked, probably of all the women. She

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Speaker 2: was supposed to be a sexpert, but her constant inability

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Speaker 2: to communicate without playing the perfect mystery girl caused a

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Speaker 2: lot of issues in most of, if not all, of

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Speaker 2: her relationships. Though she was successful and a somewhat well

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Speaker 2: known writer, her constant shopping habit kept her in seemingly

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Speaker 2: lots of debt. Definitely did make sense with her nice apartment,

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Speaker 2: though it was rent controlled for a long while.

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Speaker 4: I've seen a lot of articles about how much that department.

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Speaker 2: Would cost and constant going out and spending, and her

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Speaker 2: column seemed ridiculously short and they were weekly, so.

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Speaker 3: Question, I know a lot of those. I was like

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Speaker 3: willing suspension of disbelief. At the same time, I was like,

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Speaker 3: this is unrealistic and really irritating as an adult because

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Speaker 3: how did she make way?

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Speaker 4: Yes, how do you get that money?

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Speaker 3: Especially as a social worker who was like, I want

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Speaker 3: to be these women, What the hell?

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Speaker 1: How are you doing this right?

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Speaker 3: According to a recent screen Rant article, Miranda, who was

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Speaker 3: played by Cynthia X and Miranda Hobbs, is the most

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Speaker 3: relatable of all the women, and honestly, I would agree

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Speaker 3: as all of the quizzes I take would actually tell

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Speaker 3: you so yeah, if you that's a head hint. She

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Speaker 3: is the strong willed, pessimistic but realistic friend of the bunch.

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Speaker 3: She loves her job as a lawyer, gets tired of

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Speaker 3: talking about men all the time, and what's very realistic

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Speaker 3: pessimistic about her relationships and even her being a mom.

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Speaker 3: So it's kind of refreshing during this time of like

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Speaker 3: trying to have it all, that she really didn't want

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Speaker 3: it all and she was kind of tired of it

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Speaker 3: except for these specific things. Also irritating she got it

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Speaker 3: all somehow, she didn't want it whatever.

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Speaker 1: Even in the movies, one of.

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Speaker 3: Her best scenes is her unkempt bush scene.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and the reality that she doesn't have time. She

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Speaker 3: doesn't have time for this maintenance. And we'll talk about

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Speaker 3: it a little bit later, but she talks about her

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Speaker 3: struggles with her marriage, and some of the women imply

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Speaker 3: that maybe because of this, her unwillingness to keep up

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Speaker 3: herself is the downfall of her marriage, so a whole

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Speaker 3: other thing, and the reality is that she doesn't have

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Speaker 3: that time.

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Speaker 1: She is a full.

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Speaker 3: Time partner in a law firm, you know, and a

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Speaker 3: mother and trying to do all these things. Interestingly, though

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Speaker 3: in the early seasons she was the least light like,

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Speaker 3: she came off as the most abrasive and makes be

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Speaker 3: the man hating one from the bunch, always talking about

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Speaker 3: how men are awful, which, you know, whatever. But as

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Speaker 3: we said, like that actually changed in the more recent

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Speaker 3: times I guess.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And then there's Charlotte Yorke played by Kristin Davis, who

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Speaker 2: is the art curator. It's her dream to be a

441
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 2: wife and then a She's the feminine romantic of the

442
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,440
Speaker 2: bunch who hoards and devours every.

443
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:06,920
Speaker 4: How to get a man in New York Book.

444
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,639
Speaker 2: She is definitely a cautionary tale of getting what she

445
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,399
Speaker 2: want rushing in as her marriage to Trey, those seems

446
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,480
Speaker 2: picturesque at first ends up being a tale of failure

447
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 2: and of course horrible mother in law's. Though she does

448
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,159
Speaker 2: finally find her man, it's not ideal. Her difficulty in

449
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 2: conceiving seemed to be the most relatable storyline in the

450
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,199
Speaker 2: sense of her struggles and her different ventures and trying,

451
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 2: though like everything else, she still gets her happy ending

452
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,160
Speaker 2: in the movie.

453
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 3: Right, just to put that in there, But yeah, I

454
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,440
Speaker 3: think it was really interesting to see them portray that struggle.

455
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,440
Speaker 3: So it was really not heartwarming, It was interesting to

456
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 3: watch Kristin Davis really turn on that dramatic portion of

457
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 3: who she was going from being I want everything to

458
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 3: be perfect and I can't have it, and what does

459
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:53,159
Speaker 3: this look like?

460
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:54,160
Speaker 1: In her struggles and I.

461
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,640
Speaker 3: Thought it was fairly realistic, as during this time frame

462
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,159
Speaker 3: I had friends who are struggling to and it was

463
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 3: kind of like, yeah, that's that's kind of how it looked, yeah,

464
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 3: from the outside. So going on Samantha Jones played by

465
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 3: Kim Cattrall, I think she's probably the most l liked

466
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 3: by a lot of the viewers. Samantha is a no nonsense,

467
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,640
Speaker 3: straight to the point, gets what she wants type of woman, which.

468
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,919
Speaker 1: According to Carrie, makes her have the same self.

469
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:21,159
Speaker 3: Delusion that give men quote like Russ Perrot the confidence

470
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:22,879
Speaker 3: to run for president. And I know that's kind of

471
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 3: a dated reference, but yeah, he was quite a caricature

472
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 3: way back when. But I thought it was an interesting

473
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 3: way of her describing Samantha. They do give her some

474
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 3: depth with her relationship with Smith Jarrett and trying to

475
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 3: find herself as so well as her storyline of being

476
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 3: a breast cancer survivor and what that looks like. But

477
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,640
Speaker 3: it's her brashness and just overall love sex that make

478
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 3: her the character people slash women love for sure, right, Yeah,

479
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 3: a lot of sex puns, I hear, yes, so many,

480
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 3: so many funs.

481
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I wanted to read this quote because it

482
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 2: cracked me up. I will not be judged by you

483
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,400
Speaker 2: or society. I will wear whatever I want and blow

484
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 2: whomever I want as long as I can breathe a

485
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,679
Speaker 2: new That's Samantha Jones quote, and I saw him up

486
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 2: in a lot of things.

487
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 3: Well, this actually begins to like when we were talking

488
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:10,240
Speaker 3: about Carrie becoming a little more not prudish necessarily, but

489
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 3: more conservative.

490
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 1: She walks it on Samantha giving a package.

491
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 3: Man a blow job, and the reaction they have is

492
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,320
Speaker 3: a whole storyline between Samantha feeling judged by her so

493
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 3: I thought it was interesting as well. But yes, that

494
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:25,879
Speaker 3: is one of the best lines. I think there are

495
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 3: so many good lines that Samantha says in these things.

496
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,480
Speaker 3: But we also wanted to kind of revisit a couple

497
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,880
Speaker 3: of the episodes, because every time we talked about doing this,

498
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 3: I would bring up an episode and I really wanted

499
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 3: you to watch specific episodes, but it was too late.

500
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: By this point. And again, there's so many, so many episodes.

501
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 3: You're like, uh, I know you're watching and writing and

502
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 3: reading other things, so I wouldn't put that on you.

503
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,479
Speaker 3: But I thought some of the episodes that are very

504
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 3: telling of the show is like the farting episode, which

505
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 3: is called the drought because each women are going through

506
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 3: a where they're not having sex, so they're talking about

507
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 3: what they're doing and how they're not.

508
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 1: Having sex or whatnot.

509
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 3: And the beginning catalyst for Carrie is that she and

510
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 3: Big are together. Everything's sweet and nice. Is she farts

511
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 3: because she gets too comfortable, and that begins to be Oh,

512
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 3: he doesn't see me as a romantic. He sees me

513
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 3: as one of the boys. We're not gonna have sex.

514
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 3: We didn't have sex for three days in a row.

515
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

516
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 4: Oh no.

517
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, And so is this whole thing.

518
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,399
Speaker 3: At one point, when she tells each of the girls

519
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,280
Speaker 3: and she does it separately, this is where it is

520
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 3: irritating you hear her story three different times because she

521
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 3: tells every one of the women these issues, except she

522
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 3: couldn't do it with Charlie because Charlotte would quote unquote

523
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 3: have a heart attack. She didn't want to make her

524
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 3: head explode, essentially, but she talks to each one of them.

525
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 3: At one point, Samantha's like, no, no, no, no, no,

526
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 3: You've made.

527
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 1: A huge mistake.

528
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 3: When men don't want to know that women fart or

529
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,120
Speaker 3: poop or douche, which.

530
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 1: By the way, don't please don't.

531
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 3: But yeah, like this whole thing is like wow, this

532
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,120
Speaker 3: narrative really and healthy. They don't change it at all

533
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,160
Speaker 3: in the end, Like, of course it's a bigger issue

534
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 3: because Miranda to the rescue says, oh my god, it's

535
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 3: not about the part she actually said that, and like

536
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 3: comes to the reality of like women do things, They're

537
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 3: gonna have to get over it, and she you know,

538
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 3: talks about what really is the issue. But I thought

539
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 3: that was interesting that in these episodes, as open as

540
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 3: they were, that they are still talking about this as

541
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 3: if it's a real thing. They're like, uh, that's really problematic.

542
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 3: Maybe you should not teach women, right, but this is

543
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 3: a thing. As well as the fact they had a

544
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 3: whole episode where they had a wild girl settle meaning

545
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,159
Speaker 3: and getting married and having a baby and kind of

546
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 3: like the woman regretting having a baby and wanting to

547
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 3: be a partier. It was a whole different thing, and

548
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 3: it felt very problematic in putting women against each other

549
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,199
Speaker 3: those who do want to be you know, like it

550
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 3: was too weird, Like huh, I don't know how I

551
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 3: stol about this. And of course we're gonna talk a

552
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 3: little bit more about it. But the episode with this

553
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 3: girl boy girl boy, which is the whole bisexual episode,

554
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 3: and it's very problematic and really sad to see that.

555
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 3: We I think we fell into it, and because they

556
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 3: were making jokes of it, right and we're gonna talk

557
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 3: more about it, we were just like, okay, yeah, absolutely,

558
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 3: choose one. Pick one, which are you And we're not realizing, hey,

559
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 3: you're causing a problem. We need to readdress some of

560
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 3: these things. But yeah, those were some of the episodes

561
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 3: that really brought into oh yeah, as much as I

562
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 3: love these oh cringe.

563
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And we're definitely gonna dig into those problematic troops.

564
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:30,800
Speaker 4: And we do have some stats for you.

565
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 2: But first let's pause for a quick break for our sponsors,

566
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 2: and we're back.

567
00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 4: Thank you sponsors.

568
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 2: So, yeah, we did want to go briefly over some

569
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 2: statistics because I thought it was interesting.

570
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 3: It is so according to articles from sources like BuzzFeed,

571
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 3: which by the way, a chunk of our quizzes come from,

572
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 3: and The New York Times, over the course of ninety

573
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 3: four episodes, the four friends had somewhere between ninety five

574
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 3: or maybe ninety four and one woman to one hundred

575
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 3: and seven partners. That sounds exhausting. I'm just gonna say

576
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 3: that it breaks down roughly like that. So Carrie and

577
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 3: Charlotte have eighteen partners, Marinda had seventeen, and Samantha on.

578
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: The show had forty one.

579
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 3: But she definitely has an episode where they talk about

580
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 3: getting tested for HIV where she starts counting and can't

581
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 3: find the numbers. There are somewhere around ninety six sex

582
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 3: scenes in these series, and by the way, all of

583
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 3: them are ridiculously caricatures of what sex looks like it

584
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 3: is if you're a young child, which you talked about.

585
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: This is really bad. I really hope this didn't influence

586
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: how you thought sex was.

587
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I'm gonna get into that line.

588
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 3: And a lot of these partners are artists or bankers

589
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 3: or lawyers, are very successful that you that wasn't were

590
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 3: either younger boys who may have been bartenders, and that

591
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 3: seems to be you know, the lesser I guess, yeah,

592
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 3: I do not think it is pretty much except for Steve,

593
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 3: who is the adult who has a bar, who later.

594
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 1: Owns a bar.

595
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 2: Huh.

596
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 3: Starts off as a bartender, and then it also becomes

597
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,400
Speaker 3: a point of contention between her and him and Miranda

598
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 3: because of her job and making money. But then the

599
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 3: rest of them, I think are younger bartenders and the

600
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,360
Speaker 3: bigger players are really wealthy.

601
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can find a chart of how many artists

602
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 2: did they date Hominy Bank.

603
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: It exists and they're all successful artists.

604
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 2: Beddoes, yes, of course, so just before I the average

605
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 2: American has nine sexual partners throughout their lifetime, but according

606
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 2: to some surveys, the average New Yorker has twice as much.

607
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 4: Sex as all national average.

608
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 2: And people who know about this, I think it has

609
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: to do with a lessoned stigma around being a single

610
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 2: woman in York and larger social circles.

611
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:50,960
Speaker 4: There's more people to choose from, which makes sense to me. Right.

612
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 2: There is a chart that tracks the main character's profanity too,

613
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 2: and not surprisingly, samanthas on.

614
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 4: Top, but Carrie Miranda pretty close, pretty close.

615
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: I would have thought Miranda would be behind Samantha.

616
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, they're pretty close.

617
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 2: There's also a chart that tracks the brand dimensions when

618
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 2: it comes to fashion, which is a big part of

619
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 2: the show and used to paint pictures of these characters like,

620
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 2: who are these characters just by looking at the fashion

621
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 2: you can kind of get a sense.

622
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 4: Apparently only one brand was used.

623
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 3: Twice, but Manolo Blanix, I have no idea.

624
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 2: But let's talk about some of these problematic tropes as

625
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 2: we promised, starting with the white feminism of the show.

626
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 4: Gets a lot of critique of that, and racism right

627
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 4: as a part of that.

628
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we couldn't talk about this without addressing for

629
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 2: people who haven't seen the show, the elephant in the

630
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 2: room in regards to race, and that yes, it is

631
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 2: based on all white women's perspective and for the most part,

632
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 2: a very heteronormative, misogynistic perspective.

633
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 3: And we say misogynistic because the viewpoint is literally based

634
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 3: on how would this man look at me?

635
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 4: It's a very male gayzy still.

636
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, So in one of the early episodes.

637
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,719
Speaker 3: In season three, we are really badly written episode of

638
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 3: Samantha dating a very attractive black man. And when I

639
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 3: say badly written, I mean it's obvious that a white

640
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 3: person decided they could write for African American vernacular for

641
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 3: them like it is bad and with all of their

642
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 3: bad judgment, the dialogue is cringey. Everything from having Samantha

643
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 3: say something like, I've got to give me some of that.

644
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, And when it is addressed by Charlotte, you

645
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:30,719
Speaker 3: can't say that.

646
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: Don't say that.

647
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 3: The response is, oh, stop with your liberal knee jerk reaction.

648
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 3: So you're like, okay, immediately all right to the male character,

649
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 3: which they do hook up, by the way, Samantha, this

650
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 3: is her being open minded, I think to him screaming when.

651
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: She starts fighting with his sister, who is a black woman,

652
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: let's all be chill. Let's just be chilled, chill, and

653
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: it's just like so bad. Then you're like, oh, what

654
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: is that? Why are they doing this?

655
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 3: And I knew this in the early two thousands, so sorry,

656
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 3: And can we also go ahead and address this ever

657
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 3: annoying trope of reverse racism, which is what they put

658
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 3: in here in this episode the Finleyville plot line that

659
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 3: his sister won't let him date Samantha because she's white,

660
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 3: and as the sister explains, it's the black thing you

661
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 3: wouldn't understand. So not only do they put that in there,

662
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 3: that's the reason it is just such an awful way

663
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 3: to address this issue. And as in fact, I read

664
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 3: an article from the actress that portrayed this character, saying

665
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 3: this was her first job and she took it because

666
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 3: she was so excited.

667
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: First of all, she needed a job.

668
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 3: Secondly, sex in the city was huge at that time,

669
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 3: and thirdly, she wanted to be dressed in part of

670
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,959
Speaker 3: that culture. And though she had really good interactions behind

671
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 3: the scenes, like apparently kin Control was really kind and

672
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 3: kept telling her how amazing she was doing.

673
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: She read the plodge, she read the lines.

674
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 3: She was like, oh, well, okay, I guess, And it

675
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 3: kind of addresses back at that point in time when

676
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 3: people of color would take on these characters just because

677
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 3: they had to. Yeah, and they would have to shrug

678
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 3: it off and be like, all right, well, this is

679
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 3: what they want. They have to get paid, you know.

680
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 3: It was an interesting conversation. She's like, I really wish

681
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 3: and I knew then that this was really bad, but

682
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 3: it didn't matter because I wanted to try to be

683
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 3: an actor.

684
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 2: So yeah, that episode, yeah, yeah, I read about that

685
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,239
Speaker 2: one too, and like the Angry Black Woman, And not

686
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 2: only that, but even the depiction of Robert, who is

687
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 2: one of Miranda's love interests ends up being an angry

688
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 2: black man, which is, yeah, not good.

689
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 4: It's not a good look.

690
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 3: At first you're like, oh, how sweet, and then it

691
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 3: ends with him being the angry black man that just

692
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 3: storms off, and it's just kind of like, oh why.

693
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's really not any good representation in this,

694
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 2: even the depiction of Asian women. In one episode, they

695
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 2: talk of class systems still existing and how it matters

696
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 2: in relationships, and as an example, they not towards the

697
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 2: women who are giving all of the manicures, meaning they

698
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 2: were lesser. Also, within the same episode, we have the

699
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 2: fetishized Asian woman who is a servant to a white man.

700
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 3: And they call her a servant, so it's kind of like, ah,

701
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 3: and she also has this very traditional Asian clothes while

702
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 3: she's serving them, so it's kind of like wow, y'all.

703
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: Yeah wow.

704
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 3: Also, just to put it out there, Kim Gatrall did

705
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 3: say that if they did have a remake, they should

706
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 3: actually make one of the characters a black character because

707
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 3: there was so little representation and it was so blaringly

708
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 3: obvious how little there was.

709
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, we also wanted to talk about queer depictions in

710
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: the show, starting with transphobia.

711
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

712
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 3: So one of the things about it was a specific episode,

713
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 3: which is Samantha versus the trans prostitutes that work behind

714
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,479
Speaker 3: her area in the meatpacking district of New York, and

715
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 3: just the language used within these episodes, yeah, I have

716
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 3: to turn it off. And that way they are just

717
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 3: fairly disrespectful of the whole thing and the way they

718
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 3: depict these women, it's really sad because it makes them

719
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 3: again a caricature. And of course all of them but

720
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 3: one are fans women of color, so it's kind of like,

721
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 3: really all had to do this, and of course it

722
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,879
Speaker 3: has to be for us versus them. But in the end,

723
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 3: like they all get together and all are happy and

724
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 3: united and they watch Carrie twirl.

725
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, Okay, everybody loves to see a twirl.

726
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 4: I guess, I guess.

727
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 2: And we want to talk about some other homophobic things,

728
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 2: like the gay best friend trope is in this a lot. Yeah,

729
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 2: but you've got Stanford and Anthony who definitely fit into

730
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 2: this trope, and we do see the development of Stanford's

731
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 2: character and that gives a little leeway of how Carrie

732
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 2: just continues to use her friends and talk about herself constantly.

733
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 2: So like I read it described as like an accessory

734
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 2: to her. Yeah, like even if he has growth, he

735
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 2: still sort of exists for her to complain too.

736
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's definitely interesting because again it is written

737
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 3: by and created by two very openly gay men. But

738
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 3: the way they portrayed Standford at the beginning when the

739
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 3: first episode is he was so over the top Kitchie

740
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 3: to where he ended up it, it was kind of

741
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 3: a relief to see him finally being like the adorable,

742
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 3: sweet guy and kind. But yes, he's definitely just an

743
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 3: accessory to this whole conversation.

744
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I actually read a lot of articles about that.

745
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 2: Maybe we'll come back to that later of like kind

746
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: of that tension between gay creators and like something like this.

747
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:31,919
Speaker 3: Right.

748
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: So, also bisexual erasure, which we've mentioned before. So Carrie

749
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 2: doesn't believe bisexual men are legit. And when Samantha dated

750
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 2: a woman, the idea that Samantha might actually be bisexual

751
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 2: or curious is really dismissed. It was like, no, she's

752
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 2: just bored, or she's looking for attention, or it's a

753
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 2: phase that thing that we've talked about before in previous episodes.

754
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 3: Right, And we talked about the episode called girl Boy,

755
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 3: Girl Boy in the Cold Conversation, which takes place of

756
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 3: course over Brunt is problematic between Miranda calling bisexuals greedy

757
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 3: because they sample from all sides to Charlotte saying she

758
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 3: needs labels either your gay or straight, pick a lane.

759
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: The entire show is an issue.

760
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 3: The overall fear mongering towards bisexuality is insulting overall, literally

761
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 3: the entirety of the show. Carrie is so neurotic. She's

762
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 3: sure that he's looking her interest who has said that

763
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 3: he just falls in love with love essentially that she

764
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:28,720
Speaker 3: just for sure he's checking every.

765
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: Single person out. Oh yeah, that's the entirely thing.

766
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 3: And by the way, Elena's more said is in this

767
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 3: episode she can't carry kiss.

768
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 4: Oh there you go.

769
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 1: There's a small tidbit.

770
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 4: Good, a tidbit okay.

771
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 2: And we wanted to talk about some sexist elements in here,

772
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 2: I guess, and like feminism, not feminism.

773
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 4: What's going on?

774
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 2: And while this show is lauded in many ways for

775
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 2: the strides it made in depictions of women and sex,

776
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 2: and it should be a lot of fans shaped at

777
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,760
Speaker 2: the ending of the first movie and the show feeling

778
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 2: it wasn't true to this message of independent women who

779
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 2: weren't rushing to get married and I want to quote

780
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 2: Nasbaum again because she actually defended the ending of the show.

781
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 4: Quote.

782
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,840
Speaker 2: While a mob film ends in murder, we all know

783
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:13,479
Speaker 2: where a romantic comedy ends.

784
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 4: I'll defend until my dying day.

785
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 2: The sixteenth in plot in which Carrie seeks respite with

786
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 2: a celebrity like her, the Russian artist Alexander played by

787
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 2: Mikhail Borushnikoff, a chiley genius she doesn't love, but who

788
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 2: offers her a dream like fairy tale, the one she's

789
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 2: always longed for, Paris, safety, money, pleasure.

790
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 4: It felt ugly and sad in a realistic way. Yeah.

791
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 3: I think it was interesting because there's a lot of

792
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 3: conflict between her and Miranda because she is choosing all

793
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 3: of these things. So I mean, sure, I guess she

794
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 3: gives up everything to go with this guy, and yes,

795
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 3: guess a happy ending. But to be fair, she also

796
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 3: wrote a book, so there's that.

797
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

798
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: Yeah.

799
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 3: Also Miranda being blamed for infidelity in the movie. We

800
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 3: see that, and we talked about earlier.

801
00:37:58,160 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 1: We see the.

802
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 3: Steve who says that he has had an affair after

803
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,799
Speaker 3: having sex one night, and all this culmination into her

804
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 3: being busy, her having to do all these things, her

805
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,919
Speaker 3: being tired and pretty much lays the blame, saying that

806
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 3: she is the reason that he says he's sorry, but

807
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 3: it's because we've not been touching each other. You haven't

808
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 3: even made time for me, essentially, as well as the

809
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 3: fact that during her time with Carrie, Carrie is so

810
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,479
Speaker 3: angry about a small bit of information which I still

811
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 3: can't understand, that she tells Miranda that it's her fault

812
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 3: and she should forgive Steve, like it's a whole return,

813
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 3: as well as the fact that during their counseling session

814
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 3: the therapist kind of puts it on her as well.

815
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 3: So it's kind of the whole way of like, yes, yes,

816
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 3: there is a leading there's always a bigger story and

817
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 3: infidelity for sure, but to put blame like that instead

818
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,000
Speaker 3: of having a conversation or even say, hey, I have

819
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 3: this problem, or hey let's have counseling before I have

820
00:38:59,440 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 3: an affair.

821
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 4: Mm hmm. Maybe seems.

822
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 3: And I think it was really infuriating for me again

823
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 3: because like the whole bush scene where she was not

824
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 3: having wax things and all these they kind of put

825
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 3: that on her and saying like, well, no, wonder your

826
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:14,920
Speaker 3: relationship fell apart.

827
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:16,239
Speaker 1: You like let yourself go.

828
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I saw a lot of angry reactions to that,

829
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 2: and also Carrie's storyline in that movie.

830
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 4: In the first movie ends with her being won over after.

831
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:30,720
Speaker 2: Her rich on again, off again dude Big, mister Big

832
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 2: building her a wardship with expensive clothes, which feels very

833
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 2: materialistic and separately not what the show was about, because

834
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 2: I do think materialism was a big part of this. Yeah,

835
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 2: Cynthia Nixon said about this quote, it seemed to me

836
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 2: that the show was so much about female empowerment and

837
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 2: about women making their own choices and women standing up

838
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 2: for what they wanted and supporting themselves. So to me,

839
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 2: to have the scene be a climax of the film,

840
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 2: that's your very wealthy husband built you a nice closet

841
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,720
Speaker 2: for your clothes, I thought, Wow, that it's not really

842
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 2: what you love about the show, is it, Because that's

843
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: not what we were making it for a lot of

844
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 2: people weren't happy with Carrie's relationship with Big in general,

845
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 2: claiming he was toxic. I read somebody describe him as

846
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 2: like a walking red flag. Carrie consistently worries that it's

847
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 2: turning her into a fake this relationship. At one point

848
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 2: she says, I'm not like me. I'm like together Carrie.

849
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 2: I wear little outfits, sexy, carey and casual carries. Sometimes

850
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 2: I catch myself actually posing. It's just it's exhausting, right.

851
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 3: I think that's the back and forth because everybody has

852
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 3: an opinion who's seen the show about what man is

853
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 3: the best man, which man is the best man of

854
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 3: the group. But I think it's interesting because, as I said,

855
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 3: Carrie's constant need to switch her personality. It happens throughout

856
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 3: the entire show. It's not just Big, as with Alexander,

857
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 3: is with Aiden, Like she becomes these different people, which

858
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 3: happens a lot. Yeah, we all have like relationship goals

859
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 3: where you try to find common interest or try to

860
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 3: compromise for that. But yeah, it's definitely a theme for

861
00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 3: Carrie to constantly beat this. Even though I do think

862
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 3: Big is definitely toxic, I don't think it's not just him,

863
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:08,919
Speaker 3: it's not yeah, yeah, yeah, But people again also weren't

864
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 3: happy with how Stamford was with the only other gay

865
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 3: male in this series. Yeah, Anthony, Like at first when

866
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,359
Speaker 3: they meet each other, Anthony says to Charlotte, he could

867
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 3: do better, like he can be better as in fact,

868
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 3: they kind of hate each other because he also outs

869
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 3: Stanford's boyfriend later on in the show as being I

870
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 3: don't know if he's a prostitute, a call boy, but

871
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 3: he having an advertisement in a magazine, in a gay

872
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 3: magazine to be an escort essentially. So it's really interesting

873
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 3: how they hate each other, and then at the end,

874
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,840
Speaker 3: because they are the only two gay people, I guess

875
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:42,280
Speaker 3: they end up getting together.

876
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. And they, by the way, do remain the.

877
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 3: Two strongest gay characters, the only gay characters I guess

878
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:50,280
Speaker 3: in the whole series.

879
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean, it's certainly of like regular appearances.

880
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah.

881
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 2: And a lot of folks have pointed out that as

882
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,160
Speaker 2: revolutionary as all of this was, in a lot of ways,

883
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 2: the main characters still did pretty much stick to traditional

884
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 2: gender roles, and on top of that, there was a

885
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 2: classist and superficial element with a focus on glamour, fashion

886
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 2: and looks. And the debate rages on about where this

887
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: show falls in terms of feminism. In a twenty eleven

888
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 2: article for The Daily Telegraph called Sorry, Sisters, but I

889
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 2: hate Sex in the City, Donya Gold wrote, Sex and

890
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,919
Speaker 2: the City is to feminism what sugar is to dental care.

891
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 2: The first clue is in the opening credits of the

892
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 2: television show. Carrie is standing in a New York street

893
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 2: in a ballet skirt, the sort that toddlers wear. She

894
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 2: is dressed unmistakably as a child because she is a

895
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 2: sex columnist on a newspaper. A bus wearing a huge

896
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 2: photo of her in a tiny dress trundles pass. Carrie

897
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 2: Bradshaw knows good Sex has the bus, and there before

898
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 2: any dialogue hits your ears, you have two woeful female

899
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 2: archetypes that Sex and the City loves woman as sex

900
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,960
Speaker 2: object and woman as child. In another episode, Carrie realizes

901
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 2: she is homeless because she has spent forty thousand dollars

902
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 2: on shoes and does not have a deposit for an apartment.

903
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 2: In this crisis, she cries and barrows the money for

904
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 2: the deposit. What child do anything else? Also in twenty eleven,

905
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 2: Ashley Dikes wrote in her research piece and I started

906
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 2: wondering voiceover and conversation and Sex and the City quote.

907
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:10,879
Speaker 2: The fear that men will no longer find a woman

908
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,520
Speaker 2: attractive as she reveals her true self is in contrast

909
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 2: to the relationships among the four main characters, but plenty

910
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 2: of argued that the show did a lot for feminism,

911
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 2: or maybe not that it did a lot for feminism,

912
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 2: but was feminists or did at the very least invite

913
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 2: feminist conversations or conversations about women and sex and in

914
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,720
Speaker 2: a lot of different spaces about women that we hadn't

915
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 2: really discussed openly as a society before.

916
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:35,760
Speaker 4: It like made them popular.

917
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 3: Right, And I think I would agree that I think

918
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 3: it gave permission for so many to be able to

919
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:44,160
Speaker 3: openly talk about their sexual experiences and even learn from

920
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,399
Speaker 3: that conversations. Is like talking about oral sex and being

921
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 3: able to enjoy it seemed so taboo. But when the

922
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 3: show came in understanding that women do enjoy sex and

923
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 3: do bond over talking about it. I remember you and

924
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 3: I were actually having a whole conversation about what this

925
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 3: show would look like, and we talked about when women

926
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,919
Speaker 3: enjoy sex, when women don't enjoy sex, and why that's

927
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 3: okay in either way.

928
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 1: And honestly, part of my conversation came from this.

929
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 3: And that idea of I grew up in such a

930
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:15,160
Speaker 3: very isolated and closed minded home when it came to sex,

931
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 3: that when I came to college, I was like, this

932
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 3: is what this is for, this is how this is.

933
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 3: And don't get me wrong, and there's nothing wrong with

934
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 3: intimacy and saving whatever you have for marriage whatever. If

935
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,280
Speaker 3: you really feel like that's something that you want, that's great.

936
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 3: But that's partly in my mind. I don't think it

937
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 3: was until I watched shows like this that I realized, oh,

938
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 3: women actually do like sex.

939
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 1: This is not just me. I'm not thirty, okay, and

940
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:40,839
Speaker 1: it did.

941
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 3: I think it opened up a whole big conversation and

942
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,240
Speaker 3: allowing the fact that you could ask other women for advice.

943
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 3: You don't have to do this alone, Like if you're

944
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 3: confused about something, if you like these are things that

945
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 3: needs to happen, and allow it for it.

946
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: I'm also it technically does pass the Bechdel test. Yeah,

947
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: or I will say that it's not too much aur prise.

948
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,839
Speaker 3: But something that I loved any you've yearned for now,

949
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 3: especially with us still being in lockdown, is having brunch

950
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 3: with my girls and just releasing whatever is on our minds,

951
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 3: enjoying a drink, d complaining about work, living situations so yes,

952
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 3: even talking about our partners and seeing friendships that would

953
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 3: grow together. I think it was something beautiful, even though

954
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 3: there were so many problematic things within them, and they

955
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 3: fed into this narrative of white feminism, white relationships, white

956
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 3: girl privilege, all these things for.

957
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 1: Sure, But the fact that they grew together and after college.

958
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: I really really wanted that.

959
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 3: And missed that. And though the whole series does seem

960
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 3: to be a lot about finding your mate, yeah, the

961
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 3: fact that they lean on each other and as much

962
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 3: as they do, they continue to grow together, and it

963
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 3: was really refreshing to see that as an ending. Happy

964
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 3: ending wasn't necessarily the man. Happy ending was that they

965
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 3: were going out together. Like she comes back home from

966
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 3: France and the first thing she does is find them

967
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 3: and make sure they all have brunch. In the end,

968
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 3: when she gets married, he says, I know your true

969
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:58,760
Speaker 3: loves and it's the women.

970
00:45:58,840 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 1: And I think that's beautiful.

971
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree, and I liked what

972
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 4: I saw.

973
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 2: Maybe I'll, if I can find it anywhere, launch a

974
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 2: gas journey Okay, perfect, perfect, And I do want.

975
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 4: To say DVD's for days for me.

976
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 2: I do think it would be really interesting if there's

977
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 2: a study out there on how this show influenced people's

978
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 2: thoughts on sex because for me, even though I didn't

979
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 2: see it growing up, it's still like permeated and it

980
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:27,799
Speaker 2: still influenced me and my thoughts on sex, just the

981
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 2: little things I saw, or even just like images I

982
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 2: saw from it.

983
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 4: When I was in middle.

984
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:35,959
Speaker 2: School, I asked my mom if that's how people meet

985
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 2: at bars and they date for like a week, and

986
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 2: then they have sex and then they break up. That

987
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 2: was also influenced by other TV, not just Next to

988
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 2: the City. But my mom was a gas and she

989
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, I didn't have the talk

990
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 2: with you. And I remember even then being really confused

991
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 2: about the fashion money, and I was like, is.

992
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 4: It New York really expensive?

993
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:56,799
Speaker 2: How could I ever afford? I was like, I can't

994
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 2: afford this lifestyle. This is out of my reach.

995
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 3: The entirety of like not having roommates as a single

996
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 3: woman in New York made no sense, no sense because

997
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 3: I had to have roommates in Atlanta, and we know

998
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 3: the cost of living is much cheaper here.

999
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, well, this has been a really fun one.

1000
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 2: We wanted to run really quickly through our quiz answers

1001
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 2: of who we would be, but first we have one

1002
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 2: more quick break forward from our sponsors.

1003
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 4: And we're back.

1004
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 2: Thank you sponsored. So yeah, we did get a lot

1005
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 2: of these from BuzzFeed.

1006
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, of course Busfeed is going to be

1007
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 3: the number one quiz, especially for things like sex and

1008
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 3: the City. I was like, there, they are ten thousand

1009
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 3: of them, so I do need to know because I

1010
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 3: sent you several. There are several different ones, and I'll

1011
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 3: try to make a variation.

1012
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: So which one are you? Are you a Carrie, Samantha,

1013
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: Charlotte or Miranda?

1014
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 2: According to this first BuzzFeed you sent me, I got

1015
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 2: quote you wish you were a Carrie, but alas.

1016
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 4: You are a Miranda, which I was like, that does

1017
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 4: not need to be insulting.

1018
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: Why is that?

1019
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 3: I was actually carry on this one. I kind of

1020
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 3: was surprised and insulted. I was like, I don't want

1021
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 3: to be carried What is this? What are you saying

1022
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 3: about me? I didn't like it?

1023
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, and then you sent me another.

1024
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 3: One, right, and I needed one more because I was like, okay,

1025
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 3: let's just see who this personality type was. So what

1026
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 3: was this other one that you would have been?

1027
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 4: Which character?

1028
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 2: It was also from BuzzFeed and I got Samantha Jones.

1029
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 2: You're one wild person. You love to date, have fun,

1030
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 2: but getting serious is really not your style. You much

1031
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,320
Speaker 2: prefer one steady group of friends over one man forever.

1032
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,879
Speaker 2: You're great at giving advice because you're so carefree. I

1033
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 2: agree with that, minus the sex.

1034
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 3: Still is sex personality, but definitely a group of friends.

1035
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure.

1036
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,359
Speaker 3: For sure, I've got Mariana on this one because I

1037
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 3: am obviously a very strong willed and all those things.

1038
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, I definitely said that. And I had to

1039
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: know who was the man.

1040
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 2: I got Robert Leeds, which now I don't know how

1041
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:03,879
Speaker 2: to feel about it.

1042
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:05,839
Speaker 1: Oh, but he's such a good guy.

1043
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 3: So that's the things Like I got Robert Leeds too,

1044
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 3: and I loved him as a boyfriend.

1045
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:10,359
Speaker 1: He's probably one of.

1046
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 3: The best, Like he is so sweet, so caring love

1047
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 3: because this is after she has the baby and she

1048
00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 3: he loves the kids and so kind.

1049
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 1: She just ended up dumping him because she realized she's.

1050
00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 4: Still step Okay, Okay, I feel better about it.

1051
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 3: Who of course they have a good relationship. Yeah, so

1052
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 3: he's a good guy. It wasn't until they broke up

1053
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 3: that they made him a bad guy. It was just

1054
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,279
Speaker 3: really irritating. They didn't need it in him like that.

1055
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 3: And then I had to send you this house Stuff

1056
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 3: works quiz because I was like, oh, she's not gonna

1057
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:35,879
Speaker 3: do well. I'm gonna beat her on this one for sure.

1058
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 3: How well do you know Sex and the City?

1059
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 1: What was your rating?

1060
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 4: I got sixty three percent?

1061
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I got ninety three.

1062
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 3: Oh, she's still not one hundred percent because there's two

1063
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 3: I forgot about, like what, Oh, sorry, sad about that one.

1064
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 3: And then the very last one. We had to find

1065
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 3: the combination, Yes, the combo of which characters are you?

1066
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 3: I got Samantha and Carrie. So I'm all over the

1067
00:49:59,160 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 3: board here.

1068
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1069
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:02,760
Speaker 1: It seems like, yeah, I guess you are.

1070
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 4: But why? But why?

1071
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 2: It says you're super confident like Samantha. You're creative like

1072
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,080
Speaker 2: Carrie too. You always know exactly what you want and

1073
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:10,720
Speaker 2: you're not afraid to work hard to get it. Sometimes

1074
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 2: other people are intimidated by your success, but generally they

1075
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 2: admire you.

1076
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:18,440
Speaker 3: Oh oh yeah, So I'm the combination of Carrie and Miranda.

1077
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 3: You're a very creative person like Carrie, but you're also ambitious, loyal,

1078
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 3: and hard working like Miranda. You're incredibly loyal and you

1079
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,680
Speaker 3: always put your friends first. Everyone relies on you to

1080
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 3: tear them up when they're filling down, and you wouldn't

1081
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 3: have it any other way.

1082
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 4: I agree with that, I can see you.

1083
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 1: The fact that I got to be uh, obviously Miranda

1084
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 1: makes me happy.

1085
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:38,839
Speaker 4: Well.

1086
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 2: It's funny because, again, having never seen but like three

1087
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 2: stympers of the show, I thought i'd get Charlotte.

1088
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 4: I don't know why I thought that a naivety, I agree, probably,

1089
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 4: but I didn't get her once me either.

1090
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 1: That's not surprising for me though.

1091
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 4: Well.

1092
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 2: That brings us to the end of this episode on

1093
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 2: Sex and the City. It's been so fun. We would

1094
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 2: love to hear from you listeners your experience with the show,

1095
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 2: the movies. What are your looking forward to or worried

1096
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Speaker 2: about in the upcoming reboot? Are you a Carrie, Samantha, Miranda,

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Speaker 2: Charlotte Let us know. You can email us at Stuff Media,

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Speaker 2: mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us

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Speaker 2: on Instagram at stuff I Never Told You or on

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Speaker 2: Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast.

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Speaker 4: Thanks to your.

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Speaker 2: Super producer, Christina, and thanks to you for listening. Steffan

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Speaker 2: Never Told You his production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

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Speaker 2: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

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Speaker 2: you listen to your favorite shows.