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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. The verdict Watch is over

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Speaker 1: a jury finds and a split verdict mostly for Captain

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Speaker 1: Jack Sparrow aka Johnny Depp, while they did support one

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Speaker 1: of Amber Heard's claims. What happened? What went sideways during

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Speaker 1: this trial for Amber Heard? And now what's next? I mean,

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and serious XM one eleven.

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Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to what happened from

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Speaker 1: the horse's mouth. Listen, mister Ford person, is just the

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Speaker 1: verdict of the jury? All right? Is it unanimous? Thank you, sir?

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Speaker 1: In civil case number CL twenty nineteen two nine one

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Speaker 1: one mister Depp's claim against misheard one as to the

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Speaker 1: statement appearing in the online op ed entitled Amber Heard,

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Speaker 1: I spoke up against sexual violence and faced our culture's wrath.

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Speaker 1: That has to change. In The Washington Post's online edition,

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Speaker 1: quote I spoke up against sexual violence and faced our

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Speaker 1: culture's rat That has to change. End quote. Do you

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Speaker 1: find that mister Depp has proven all the elements of defamation? Answer? Yes,

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Speaker 1: Has mister Depp proven by a greater weight of the

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Speaker 1: evidence that question? The statement was made or published by misheard.

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Speaker 1: Answer yes, the question the statement was about mister Depp.

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Speaker 1: Answer yes, question the statement was false. Answer yes. This

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Speaker 1: jury had forty two specific questions they had to answer.

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Speaker 1: Either side was alleging basically three main charges against the other.

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Speaker 1: What was lost in the sauce was that this was

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Speaker 1: two lawsuits merged together, Depth suing Amber Heard for fifty

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Speaker 1: million dollars claiming she defamed him, and Amber Heard counter

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Speaker 1: suing for one hundred million dollars back at Depth, claiming

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Speaker 1: that he, through his lawyer Waldman, had defamed her. Well,

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Speaker 1: it turned into a real brawl with me and all

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Speaker 1: Star panel to make sense of what we know right now.

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Speaker 1: You just heard a portion of what went down in

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Speaker 1: the jury room as the verdicts were announced straight out

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Speaker 1: to Caitlyn Becker, joining as senior reporter Dailymail dot Com. Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: give me a recap of the jury's decision. A jury

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Speaker 1: of seven, Well, Nancy, they overwhelmed me, sided four Johnny Depp.

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Speaker 1: They found that Amber heard twenty eighteen op ed in

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Speaker 1: the Washington Post, defamed him, that she knowingly wrote false information,

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Speaker 1: that she did so with malice. I was pretty shocked

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Speaker 1: and At the end of all of that, they awarded

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Speaker 1: a massive amount of damages, ten million dollars in compensis

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Speaker 1: compensatory damages and five million impunitive damages. Now that did

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Speaker 1: change because there is that three hundred and fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars cap on punitive damages in the state of Virginia,

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Speaker 1: so that number was slashed tight of bits. And then

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Speaker 1: they turned to Amber Heard's counterclaim against Johnny Depp, finding

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Speaker 1: in her favor on one of those counts, finding that

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Speaker 1: he defamed her through statements made by his lawyer, and

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Speaker 1: then ordering him to pay her two million dollars. So

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Speaker 1: when all is said undone, when all of that math

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Speaker 1: is done, Johnny Depp essentially walked away with about eight

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Speaker 1: point three five million dollars in damages. Okay, So the

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Speaker 1: math is the jury awarded him ten million in compensation

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Speaker 1: for alleged damage to his career, five million dollars in

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Speaker 1: punishment punitive damages against Amber Heard, and for depth. Then

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Speaker 1: that was reduced. That fifteen mill was reduced because in

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Speaker 1: Virginia for punitive damages you can only get three hundred

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars max. So the five mill was reduced

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Speaker 1: to three hundred fifty thousand. That leaves us at ten million,

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Speaker 1: three hundred fifty thousand dollars. But then the jury in

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Speaker 1: the number two claim by heard awarded heard two million.

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Speaker 1: So you now take the ten million, three hundred fifty

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Speaker 1: thousand mine us the two million he Owes heard, and

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Speaker 1: you end up with eight million, three hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars, questioned Caitlin Becker, why were you shocked? I

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Speaker 1: think this whole case almost felt like the legal embodiment

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Speaker 1: of her original op ed. She spoke out against sexual

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Speaker 1: violence and faced the culture's brass. I watched every day

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Speaker 1: of this trial. I watched the testimony, and from my perspective,

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Speaker 1: I feel like she maybe proved that Johnny Depp was abusive.

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Speaker 1: I also felt like Johnny Depp proved that she was abusive.

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Speaker 1: They both seemed like abusive partner. So I was really

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Speaker 1: surprised at the end of it that Johnny Depp's celebrity

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Speaker 1: had kind of won out through all of this. I

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Speaker 1: think the jury turned on Amber heard when she got

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Speaker 1: up on that stand and felt like she was acting,

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Speaker 1: and they were endeared to Johnny Depp when he got

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Speaker 1: up on that stand and felt like they were front

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Speaker 1: and center with a celebrity who's been in their homes

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Speaker 1: for decades. To you, Daryl Cohen, former or felony prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: now veteran civil attorney joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction,

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Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, what do you make of it? Well, I

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Speaker 1: think that fair maiden just was not likable in Nancy.

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Speaker 1: We've taught about this forever. You have to have likability

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Speaker 1: on the stand and the public opinion. The court of

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Speaker 1: public opinion didn't like Amber, didn't like the way she was.

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Speaker 1: I thought, finally she changed her persona after she changed

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Speaker 1: her pr people, but it wasn't enough. And I don't

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Speaker 1: think it was about what she wrote and what Johnny

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Speaker 1: Depp's lawyer did. I think it was more about the

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Speaker 1: way that the public just didn't like her. So maybe

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Speaker 1: Aquaman was her her last stand. I don't know, but

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Speaker 1: I do think it'll be fine. You know what, you

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Speaker 1: know what you're not here to say. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: You're the civil lawyer expert, and I can tell you

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Speaker 1: it's not a popularity contest. Although when a jury doesn't

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Speaker 1: like a witness, they're much less prone to believe the witness.

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Speaker 1: I believe the jury smelled her lies on other issues,

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Speaker 1: like the charity donation that she never made that she

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Speaker 1: swore under oath she had made, like the claiming that

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Speaker 1: no one in her camp tipped off TMZ to show

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Speaker 1: up at the courthouse when she got a t r

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Speaker 1: O tipporary restraining order and was supposed to turn a

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Speaker 1: certain way so they could get a photograph of the

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Speaker 1: bruise on her face. That didn't just happen, that was orchestrated.

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Speaker 1: The claimed that Depp pushed Kate Moss down the stairs,

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Speaker 1: and then Kate Moss appears as a rebuttal witness, which

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Speaker 1: is very powerful when you get the last word. Depp

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Speaker 1: brought her on as a rebuttal witness to say that

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Speaker 1: didn't happen. I mean, there's a huge list of lies

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Speaker 1: that she wasn't setting him up. Then why all the

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Speaker 1: videos and the photographs that it wasn't about the money

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Speaker 1: at all? When testimony came in that she demanded use

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Speaker 1: of his three penthouse apartments and arrange her over to boot. Now,

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Speaker 1: what does this have to do with him hitting her? Nothing.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't mean he didn't hit her, But what it

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Speaker 1: did do Daryl Cohen, is her credibility as opposed to debt?

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Speaker 1: They get sothern goes. Yeah, I do drugs. I'm an alcoholic.

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Speaker 1: I slam cabinets and I kick things and I throw things,

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Speaker 1: but I don't hit anybody. He owned up to it

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Speaker 1: all except the beating. So that is why I believe

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Speaker 1: the jury rejected her claims, not because they didn't think

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Speaker 1: Depp ever hit her, but because they thought she was

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Speaker 1: lying about other things jury nullification, and that's partially what

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Speaker 1: they did. They liked her not at all. They liked

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Speaker 1: him a lot, and they did take, in my view,

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Speaker 1: their thoughts about her lying. They did take the fact

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Speaker 1: and the America's really cool. If you do something wrong

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Speaker 1: as a celebrity and you admit it after a while,

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Speaker 1: it's okay. But if you don't admit it, it's never okay.

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Speaker 1: And so our fair maiden is just not a fair maiden.

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Speaker 1: She lost a lot more money than she won. If

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Speaker 1: either of them ever collect the lawyers, will the lawyers

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Speaker 1: have Yeah, yeah, you're right, the lawyers will collect time

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Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, what happened in that courtroom.

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Speaker 1: Many people thought it would be shoe in for Amber heard,

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Speaker 1: but it all ended up Bass Ackwards. Take listen to

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Speaker 1: our cut sixty five, our friend Ron Alan at NBC cheering,

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Speaker 1: yelling and screaming support for Johnny Depp. As has been

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Speaker 1: the case for the last number of weeks, he had

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Speaker 1: been winning this in the court of public opinion. It

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Speaker 1: seemed obvious online social media and as the verdicts were read,

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Speaker 1: cheering outside the courthouse from a small group of people.

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Speaker 1: Here today we don't have the huge crowd that we've

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Speaker 1: had for the past number of weeks because Depth is

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Speaker 1: not here. He is in England. He's playing a number

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Speaker 1: of concerts and he has just released a statement which

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Speaker 1: I can read to you. In part. It says, six

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Speaker 1: years ago, my life, the life of my children, the

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Speaker 1: lives are those closest to me, and also the lives

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Speaker 1: of the people who for many many years have supported

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Speaker 1: and believed in me, were forever changed all the blink

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Speaker 1: of an eye. Then he goes on to say, and

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Speaker 1: six years later the jury gave me my life back.

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Speaker 1: I am truly humbled. That is what Depth has always

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Speaker 1: said this is about. It wasn't about money, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: about vengeance. It was about trying to get his good

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Speaker 1: name and reputation back because he vehemently denied the allegations

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Speaker 1: that he was an abuser, that he had committed violent

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Speaker 1: acts against Amber Heard. Okay, while he is happy, his

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Speaker 1: camp is happy, and he says, the jury has given

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Speaker 1: me my life back. Just the opposite on the other

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Speaker 1: side of the courtroom. Take a listen to our cut

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Speaker 1: sixty six our friends at MBC. This is coming from

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Speaker 1: Amber Heard. The disappointment I feel today is beyond words.

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Speaker 1: I'm heartbroken that the mountain of evidence still was not

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Speaker 1: enough to stand up to the disproportionate power influence in

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Speaker 1: sway of my ex husband. Heard goes on to write,

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Speaker 1: I'm even more disappointed with what this verdict means for

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Speaker 1: other women. It's a setback. It sets back the clock

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Speaker 1: to a time when a woman who spoke up and

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Speaker 1: spoke out could be publicly shamed and humiliated. It sets

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Speaker 1: back the idea that violence against women is to be

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Speaker 1: taken seriously. She goes on to say, finally, I'm sad

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Speaker 1: I lost this case, but I'm even sadder still that

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Speaker 1: I seem to have lost or write, I thought I

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Speaker 1: had as an American to speak freely and openly. Now,

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Speaker 1: this statement came to us just minutes after the verdict

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Speaker 1: came out, so it seemed to be a prepared statement

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Speaker 1: that amber Heard sent out to the press. To doctor

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Speaker 1: Charles Heller joining us clinical forensic psychologists specializing in domestic violence.

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Speaker 1: He's the chief forensic consultant Rockland County. Doctor Heller, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. There you see amber Heard

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Speaker 1: painting the court battle very much in a David and

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Speaker 1: Goliath style, where she would be David in her mind

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Speaker 1: and depth Goliath. Now, as far as their bank ability,

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Speaker 1: their box office numbers, I agree with her, but I

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Speaker 1: do not believe that it was necessarily Johnny Depp's popularity

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Speaker 1: that caused this verdict. I think the jury caught her

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Speaker 1: in lies and they just lost all respect or all

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Speaker 1: likability for her. For instance, And I'm not saying you

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Speaker 1: never hit her. I'm saying she lied about other matters

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Speaker 1: and the jury did not believe her, which they are

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Speaker 1: allowed to do under the law. I think they hit

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Speaker 1: each other. But for instance, all this business about donating

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Speaker 1: the seven million dollars divorce settlement to charity instead of

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Speaker 1: insisting until she was blew in the face that she

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Speaker 1: did donate it, and then the ACLU comes up and says, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: no you didn't. Why didn't she just say, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I had the best intentions. I donated two or three

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Speaker 1: million dollars, but then I ran out of money. Then

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Speaker 1: I caught this lawsuit. I had the best intentions, but

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Speaker 1: no I never finished giving the money. I gave all

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Speaker 1: I thought that I could. So there, Nancy, what the

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Speaker 1: world has gotten a great lesson in how to assess

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Speaker 1: false allegations. This is what I do all the time.

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Speaker 1: And there's a certain certain procedure a forensic psychologist has

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Speaker 1: to follow in terms of assessment of an allegation. You

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Speaker 1: have to look at patterns. You have to look at

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Speaker 1: any pist dishonesty about anything, especially the situation. Dear Lord

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Speaker 1: in Heaven, Man, everybody's lied, that doesn't mean you can't

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Speaker 1: mean her lies. And he was actually honest about a

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Speaker 1: lot of his deficits and acting out in terms of

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Speaker 1: alcohol and drugs. That's a really nice way to put it.

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Speaker 1: His deficits. Man, he was a raging guy when he

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Speaker 1: would be high on drugs or alcohol. But again, you're

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Speaker 1: talking about lies about other things that affect credibility. I

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Speaker 1: think that's what you're saying, doctor Heller. That's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's it's not so much public opinion that

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Speaker 1: changed this verdict toward Depth. It's it's not that the

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Speaker 1: jury liked him more than her. It's simply the facts.

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Speaker 1: The evidence didn't match up with what she was saying.

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Speaker 1: Johnny right now is a special guest. Julie Owens victim advocate,

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Speaker 1: domestic violence expert consultant and you can find her a

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Speaker 1: domestic violence expert dot Org Julie Owens way in the money,

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Speaker 1: Nancy at It's a devastating decision and will resolverate for years,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure with a chilling effect and other domestic planet systems.

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Speaker 1: There is no doubt in my name after more than

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Speaker 1: thirty years of working in similar situations that weren't have had.

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Speaker 1: Johnny Depth is a text abuser, Nancy, and he has

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Speaker 1: every single characteristic of the domestic violence offender, whereas she

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Speaker 1: does me. He's a great actor who's playing the role

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Speaker 1: of a lifetime. This is a man who said we're married.

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Speaker 1: Now I can pinch her in the face and no

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Speaker 1: one can do anything about it. This is a man

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Speaker 1: who fanticized about killing her, who told her he's going

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Speaker 1: to win a reputation, who said she's begging for total humiliation.

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Speaker 1: She's gonna get it. I have no mercy, no fear.

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Speaker 1: I'm happy she wants to face this out. No victims

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Speaker 1: says those things. You know, I'm thinking through everything you're saying.

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Speaker 1: There's no question that we have to take witnesses and

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Speaker 1: victims as we find them. You can't change a victim's personality.

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Speaker 1: I will never forget Julio's. In one of the first

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Speaker 1: case I tried, not the first, but one of the first.

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Speaker 1: I got a case that none of thee and you

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Speaker 1: know how it goes, Daryl Cohen. When you first go

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Speaker 1: to the district attorney's office, you're what they call a mule, okay,

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Speaker 1: and you are sent to all the courtrooms and you

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Speaker 1: basically are handed the cases that the permanently assigned the

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Speaker 1: veteran trial lawyers don't want to try. Princess. My first

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Speaker 1: trial was a shoplifting from a kmart where the guy

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Speaker 1: didn't take anything. And you'll remember Harvey Moscow, it's our friend.

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Speaker 1: Great trial lawyer gave me the case to try and

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Speaker 1: then immediately went out of town with Arla, his wife.

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Speaker 1: I was thrilled to try a case, but then I

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Speaker 1: realized the guy got a CD player. He cut it

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Speaker 1: off the display, stuck it down his pants, put it

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Speaker 1: in a rug, got all the way to the front

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Speaker 1: door of the kmart, and then left it in the rug. Well,

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Speaker 1: they the deputy dog security guys at kmart threw him

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Speaker 1: on the asphalt and yanked him back in and arrested

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Speaker 1: him for shoplifting. He didn't have anything on him, he

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Speaker 1: left it in the store. I had to try the

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Speaker 1: case and I got a conviction Daryl on attempted shoplifting.

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Speaker 1: So in the next case I had Darrel. I had

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Speaker 1: a woman that was arm robbed with a knife. What

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Speaker 1: I really didn't want the jury to find out was

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Speaker 1: she was a stripper and she was coming out of

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Speaker 1: a strip club at like four am, dressed as a

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Speaker 1: cheerleader and a guy pulled a knife and took all

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Speaker 1: her tips. Well, I thought they wouldn't like her if

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Speaker 1: they found out she was a stripper. So I got

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Speaker 1: her up there and I said, you know, how long

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Speaker 1: have you lived in Atlanta? You know where did you

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Speaker 1: go to school? Where do you go to church? Blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah. I looked over at the jury and they

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Speaker 1: were like, mmmmm, there's no way to change a witness

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Speaker 1: or a victim, Darrell Cohen. You gotta go with what

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Speaker 1: you got. And what Julie is alluding to is no victim,

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Speaker 1: no witness is perfect. So what you're never going to

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Speaker 1: find for them because they're not perfect. Darrel, are you there?

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Speaker 1: I am here and I'm listening to everything, and I think,

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Speaker 1: very honestly, the problem was, again, you talk about her lives.

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Speaker 1: I agree, I talk about her likability. Hopefully other people agree. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: her life ability didn't exist if she had a lack

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Speaker 1: of it. And when she had her hair a certain

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Speaker 1: way in the courtroom, when she had her makeup a

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Speaker 1: certain way in the courtroom in the beginning, it wasn't working.

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Speaker 1: And Nancy, you only have one chance. I hope you're

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Speaker 1: not boiling this down to her hair and makeup, because

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Speaker 1: that I'm boiling the courtroom. That is not what happened.

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Speaker 1: This is what happened. What about Kate Moss. Listen, we

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Speaker 1: were leaving the room and Johnny left the room before

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Speaker 1: I did, and there had been a rain store and

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Speaker 1: as I left the room. I slid down the stairs

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Speaker 1: and I hurt my back. How did you and I apologize?

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Speaker 1: Miss Moss? Please continue? And I screamed because I was

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Speaker 1: in because I didn't know what happened to me, and

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Speaker 1: I was in pain. And he came running back to

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Speaker 1: help me and carried me to my room and got

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Speaker 1: me medical attention. Did mister Depp push you in any

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Speaker 1: way down the stairs? None? During the course of your relationship,

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Speaker 1: did he ever push you down any stairs? No, he

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Speaker 1: never pushed me, kicked me, or through me town any stairs. Okay,

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Speaker 1: right there? To Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,

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Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and Starving

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Speaker 1: You Hit series on iHeart Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, it's issues. I don't know what Daryl okay,

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Speaker 1: when I was drinking in his coffee, if that's exactly

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Speaker 1: what's in that mug. But this is not about anybody's

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Speaker 1: here in makeup. This is about inconsistent statements on the stand.

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Speaker 1: The Johnny Depp team could not bring in Kate Moss

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Speaker 1: unless and until Amber heard side brought her up at

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Speaker 1: that moment, it's like a vampire. Then once you're invited,

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Speaker 1: you can bring in the evidence, and they did, and

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Speaker 1: it was towards the end of the trials. One of

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Speaker 1: the last things echoing in the juries the jurards ears

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Speaker 1: and they hear yet another claim made by Amber heard

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Speaker 1: was false. I think that had a great deal to

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Speaker 1: do with her undoing lies about Kate Moss being beaten

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Speaker 1: by Johnny Depp. That's not true. The charity, the poop

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Speaker 1: on the bed, I mean, it just goes on and

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Speaker 1: on and on. That doesn't mean she was never struck,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean she lied. Joe Scott, you're the

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Speaker 1: expert weigh in. Yeah, yeah, And you know, going back

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Speaker 1: to I still can't get past this whole TMZ thing

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Speaker 1: with the injury to the face, Nancy, you know when

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Speaker 1: you look at that, when you look at that image,

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Speaker 1: Now that this verdict has come in and we kind

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Speaker 1: of begin to see this timeline that seems manufactured now

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Speaker 1: at this point, Okay, now, hold on, Julie Owens is

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Speaker 1: not gonna like anything that you're saying, but I have

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Speaker 1: to agree with you. The timing was just too perfect.

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Speaker 1: And again I believe anybody in their right mind thinks

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Speaker 1: that these two hit each other. But speaking of what

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Speaker 1: you perceived to be a manufactured I guess you're saying

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Speaker 1: bruise or scenario regarding our friend Harve eleven at TMZ

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Speaker 1: a wildly popular site online, listen to this. This is

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Speaker 1: what came out in court. Would you normally send paparazzi

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Speaker 1: to a courthouse only if we had been informed prior.

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Speaker 1: It's not, by any means a celebrity hotspot. We would

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Speaker 1: only ever send people there if we had been tipped

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Speaker 1: off that something was occoding and there was somebody present there.

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Speaker 1: And what footage was TMC try and capture at the

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Speaker 1: LA Courthouse on May twenty seventh, twenty sixteen. We were

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Speaker 1: trying to capture Amber leaving the courthouse and an alleged

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Speaker 1: bruise on the right side of her face. What was

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Speaker 1: your team of paparazzi supposed to do while they were

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Speaker 1: at the Los Angeles Courthouse on May twenty seventh, twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 1: Their objective was to capture her leaving the courthouse, and

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Speaker 1: then she was going to sort of stop and turn

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Speaker 1: towards the camera to display the bruising the right side

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Speaker 1: of her face. Gil Ed Bruce, did your team of

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Speaker 1: videographers get the shot of Amber Heard? We did too.

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Speaker 1: Kaitlin Becker, joining US senior reporter with Dailymail dot Com,

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Speaker 1: explain in a Nutshelle the whole TMZ drama. So essentially

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Speaker 1: what happened here, Nancy is they call this guy that

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Speaker 1: used to work at TMZ to the stand to discuss

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Speaker 1: why there were cameras from TMZ paparazzi cameras at the

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Speaker 1: courthouse when Amber Heard showed up to file this tro

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Speaker 1: how they knew they were going to be there, and

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Speaker 1: whether or not it was her team that kipped them off.

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Speaker 1: You heard the back and forth on the stand. It

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Speaker 1: didn't seem to go well. I don't think Amber's team

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Speaker 1: got out of him what they wanted to get out

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Speaker 1: of him. He was a bit personickty. I from experience,

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Speaker 1: I worked Fair for a time in my life. I

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Speaker 1: didn't work there at the time that this happened, but

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Speaker 1: I do know that if the answer, the answer to

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Speaker 1: the questions she was asking were not going to come

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Speaker 1: from this guy, they were going to come from other

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Speaker 1: people at that company. You heard him multiple times say

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Speaker 1: I was told by a news producer, I was told

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Speaker 1: by a news producer went up on TMZ dot com.

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Speaker 1: I was informed by a news producer he wasn't the

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Speaker 1: person with the information that she wanted, so she was

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Speaker 1: never going to get what she wanted out at him.

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Speaker 1: But my takeaway of all of this, as someone who's

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Speaker 1: covered these types of things for more than a decade,

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Speaker 1: he's worked as an entertainment journalist for a very long time.

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Speaker 1: Isn't this why, as the celebrity, you have a team.

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Speaker 1: The news is going to get out there anyway. I

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Speaker 1: mean a hundred times, I feel like we've heard them say,

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Speaker 1: how did reporters know she was going to be there?

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Speaker 1: There are reporters that work in the courthouse every single day.

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Speaker 1: They work in the courthouse, So if Amber heard shows up,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna know when she walks in the door. If

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Speaker 1: a celebrity attorney shows up, they're gonna call their news

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Speaker 1: desk and say, a celebrity to so and so, celebrity

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Speaker 1: attorney is in here, send a camera down. I don't

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Speaker 1: know why they're here, but you're gonna want to know.

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Speaker 1: So it makes sense to me that Amber's team would

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Speaker 1: have called ahead of time to try to get their

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Speaker 1: side of the story out would have leaked it. Maybe

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Speaker 1: Amber didn't know, Maybe she wasn't aware of that and

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Speaker 1: it was her team orchestrating this, but that happens all

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Speaker 1: the time. Okay, Now along that line, let's follow up

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Speaker 1: on what Caitlin becker Or from Dailymail dot Com is saying,

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Speaker 1: just got Morgan. Your claim is Amber heard says she

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Speaker 1: had nothing to do or her camp with tipping off TMZ,

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Speaker 1: that she's going to get a restraining order, and that

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Speaker 1: she had a bruise on her face. They say she

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Speaker 1: was in on it, and she was even prepared to

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Speaker 1: turn a certain way, a pause at the door the

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Speaker 1: entrance so the camera could get a shot of the bruise.

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Speaker 1: And that is exactly what happened, Joe Scott, Yeah, it is.

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Speaker 1: And you know, let's go back to when this event

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Speaker 1: occurred and LAPD had shown up at the residents, or

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Speaker 1: the local police department showed up at the residents, and

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Speaker 1: you know, it's at that particular time that when the

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Speaker 1: investigators took a look at her, they had noted that

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Speaker 1: they they didn't see any evidence of injury. And as

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Speaker 1: we know, Nancy, from a forensics perspective, if you get

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Speaker 1: popped in the face. Okay, you're going to have immediate swelling,

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Speaker 1: you'll have a redness that occurs. That's that's along the

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Speaker 1: continuum here. You know, all the cases that we work

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Speaker 1: relative to abuse, you know, that's one of the things

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Speaker 1: that we do with kids and people that have been abused.

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Speaker 1: We try to aid the age the injuries. And with her,

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Speaker 1: you know, they didn't see it at that particular time.

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Speaker 1: But yet when this photo is taken, and this is

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Speaker 1: down range in linear time, it's away from the event,

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Speaker 1: you've got something that's presenting as read and it's got

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Speaker 1: a very distinctive margin to it where you know, you're saying,

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Speaker 1: somebody struck you with a phone. Look, you can try

426
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: to sell it to me all day long. I'm not

427
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 1: going to believe it because the science doesn't back it up.

428
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: It's it's nonsensical to me, and it seems like it's

429
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: something that is a total contrivancy to me. Did Julie

430
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 1: Owens joining a special guest victim advocate with a domestic

431
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: violence Expert consulting group. You can find her a Domestic

432
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 1: Violence Expert dot org. Julie, here's the problem. As you know,

433
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: I prosecuted domestic violence for many many years. Usually well

434
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: always by the time I got them, they were an

435
00:27:53,680 --> 00:28:01,640
Speaker 1: aggravated battery or a homicide. The fact act Julie that

436
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: someone actually walked up to me and Target and said,

437
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: do you think Amber heard faked her bruises? If it's

438
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: at that point where somebody on the jury thinks, well,

439
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: did she fake her bruce that day? Because if she

440
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: faked a bruise one time, her case is right down

441
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 1: the crapper. There's really no way to say it anymore nicely,

442
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: even if Depp had beaten her. If she is suspected

443
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 1: of faking bruises or setting up photo hits like this

444
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: with TMZ, it's over. Well, you're right, And I think

445
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 1: that's why the perception of the jury and the public

446
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: has been so skewed. I don't know if she faked

447
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: a bruise or not. I do know I am convinced,

448
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 1: without a doubt that he battered her, and he abused

449
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 1: her in every way that he is textbook abuser, and

450
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: victims are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

451
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: Whatever they say is going to be used to in them.

452
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: And this case is what I call a classic case

453
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: of Darvos denied attacks reverse the victim and offender, and

454
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 1: that is what happened. It happens every single day in

455
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: pults across the country and criminal cults were victims are

456
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: arrested after they had defended themselves in civil courts and

457
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: the abusers get restraining orders against them in family courts

458
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:28,719
Speaker 1: when they are made to look crazy or unstable or dangerous,

459
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: and they lose customer of their children. This is a

460
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: classic tactic of abusers. He had all the assets, all

461
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: the money, all the resources to make Holt look like

462
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: a liar and crazy, and he did. And she's not perfect,

463
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: she's not very likable frankly, as it's been said. But

464
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: that's not what this is. As you said, mentheis vas

465
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,320
Speaker 1: hardy contest. The fact is he did abuse her. He

466
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: abused her in many ways. He he acknowledged that he

467
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: wanted to kill her. He said it, and still he wins.

468
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: And this is exactly what she was saying in her

469
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: off d This is what happens when a victim comes forward.

470
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: Instead of looking at the abuser, the focus goes on

471
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: the victim and parrying her apart until everybody forgets that

472
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 1: there was an abuser here, that is what has happened

473
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: to amber Heard time stories with Nancy Grace, sensational testimony

474
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: that would normally send somebody to jail. Amber Heard describes

475
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 1: for the jury being raped by Johnny Depp with a

476
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: wine bottle. Listen, which is the pressure on my pubic bone?

477
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: And I don't know. I I don't remember what I said.

478
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 1: I just remember being really still not wanting to move.

479
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:48,959
Speaker 1: I remember looking around the room, I remember looking at

480
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 1: all the broken bottles, broken glass, and I remember her

481
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: that it's just not wanting to move because I didn't

482
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: know if it was broken. I didn't know if the

483
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: bottle that he had inside me was broken. I couldn't

484
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 1: feel it. I couldn't feel it. I didn't feel me,

485
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: many people wondered, Julie Owens. Amber Heard is educated, sophisticated,

486
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: has money, has contacts, has a supportive family, has a

487
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: whole team around her, Julie. Most women say that if

488
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: they were raped by a wine bottle or cavity search

489
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: for drugs, as Heart also stated, they would be long gone.

490
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: They'd be on the phone call in nine one one

491
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: and having a police report and a claim of rape

492
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: at the very least would leave. Now, I know from

493
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 1: working at the Battered Women's Center that many women feel

494
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: they have to stay in the relationship for their children.

495
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: They don't have money, they don't have a means of escape,

496
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: they're afraid they'll be killed. None of that is true

497
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: in this scenario. And I can bet you everything I've

498
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: got if I were raped with a wine bottle, I

499
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: would leave number one, take my children with me. Number two,

500
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 1: get a divorce, and go to the police station and

501
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 1: make a claim. But that didn't happen, Julie Owens. Many

502
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 1: legal legals believe if this scenario had scenario really taken place,

503
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: Amberhard would have been long gone and want to call

504
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: a police. But that didn't happen on any of the

505
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 1: alleged sex attacks. That's right, and it doesn't surprise me

506
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: one bit. Frankly, as I said, I have posstims for

507
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,720
Speaker 1: a stay of years, thousands of them, and it doesn't

508
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: surprise me at all. No matter how heinous the act,

509
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: and a victim doesn't come fall and this is a

510
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: postage of a white they are not believed, They will

511
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: not be believed. It will be turned against them, especially

512
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: when the abuser is someone who is so well loved

513
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: and so powerful they don't even bother. And I believe

514
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 1: completely that this probably happened, because false allegations don't sound

515
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: like this. Who says they got raped with the line battle?

516
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: Come on? This is a classic ring of truth kind

517
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,720
Speaker 1: of a thing. For me, I believe it did happen.

518
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: And I know other things that are even worse that

519
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: it happened when victims had not gone forward because they

520
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: were as saved, because they didn't know it's big, We're

521
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: going to get worse. They didn't know what it was

522
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,799
Speaker 1: going to go from there. Gerald Cohen, you and I've

523
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: tried a lot of cases, including before you were a

524
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: civil attorney. You prosecuted many rape cases, as did I

525
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: of adult females as well as child molestation, but right

526
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: now I'm talking about adult females. One thing I would

527
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 1: always look for, and this is before there was DNA

528
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: readily attainable, is an outcry witness. An outcry witness is

529
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: someone the victim tells, doesn't have to be immediately, tells

530
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: what happened. It could be a cop, it could be

531
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: a rape counselor it could be your mother, It could

532
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: be a friend, it could be anybody. That's one thing

533
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: that would have corroborated Amber Heard's testimony, but we didn't

534
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: get that at all on any of these claims. Daryl Cohen, Well, Nancy,

535
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: it is possible. It is possible in her own mind,

536
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 1: Johnny is cooler than I am. Johnny is a bigger

537
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: box office hit than I am. I am was struggling,

538
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: though I'm doing pretty well as an actor, and I

539
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: don't want to tell anybody. I'm so embarrassed, so terribly embarrassed,

540
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 1: that I just can't say anything to anyone because it

541
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: will just destroy me. That's a possibility. But also with Amber,

542
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:22,640
Speaker 1: she had put up a cloak of badness. I talked

543
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: about hair and makeup. I want to add to it,

544
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 1: facial expressions. I want to add to it body language.

545
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 1: That's what the jury saw and heard, and you can

546
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 1: only have one chance to make a first impression. She

547
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 1: didn't make a good impression, and I'm wondering if the

548
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 1: jury actually did anything other than just pay a little

549
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: bit of Okay, Yeah, she's testifying. Do I believe her? No?

550
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: Why because I don't like her? Why because she lied

551
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 1: on other things, as you have pointed out. Why because

552
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: Johnny is really a good guy and you know, he's

553
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 1: admitted that he's got this drug problems, admitted he has

554
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: his alcohol problem. But oh my gosh, that great pirate.

555
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: He would never hurt a woman. He may scream, he

556
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 1: may drink, he may do all these things, but he

557
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: will never hurt anybody physically. I believe him because I

558
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 1: want to well, speaking of that, I want to follow

559
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:24,720
Speaker 1: up on exactly what you're saying. I considered the testimony

560
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: of movie star Ellen Barkin to be very significant. When

561
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 1: I first listened to her testimony, I felt that it

562
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 1: would help Amber heard because she describes in great detail

563
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:45,760
Speaker 1: that Johnny Depp is mean, he's jealous, he's volatile, he's angry,

564
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,959
Speaker 1: he's drunk or high all the time, and he's not

565
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:56,240
Speaker 1: afraid to cause a ruckus. She describes having a wine

566
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: bottle thrown in her direction, not necessarily at her, but

567
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: in her direction while dept was having an argument with

568
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,280
Speaker 1: somebody else. They were all in the room together. Listen

569
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 1: to Ellen Barkin, mister Depp threw a wine bottle across

570
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 1: the room, the hotel room on one instance in Las Vegas,

571
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 1: while we were shooting Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas,

572
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: were you was something about to happen. The fight was

573
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: going on between you and mister depa. No, who was

574
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: the fight between between Johnny Depp and his friends in

575
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: the room the assistant. Honestly, I don't remember. And the

576
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 1: bottle that do you remember? Sitting here today is Barkin?

577
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 1: Whether the bottle was full of wine or empty? I

578
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: don't Sitting here today is Barkin. Do you remember whether

579
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: the bottle hit you? No? It did not. Did the

580
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:56,439
Speaker 1: bottle hit anyone else? No? It did not. Approximately how

581
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: far away from you was mister Depp when he threw

582
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: the bottom across the room. So maybe by that break

583
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 1: in the table a little further down it was a toss.

584
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 1: I thought that would really help Amber heard. But on

585
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: second thought, as I analyzed it, it turns out to

586
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: really corroborate what Johnny Depp said that he would throw things,

587
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 1: that he would bang habinets and kick things and beat

588
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 1: the wall. But never did Barkin state she was harmed.

589
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: Listen to Barkin, you just use the word jealous. How

590
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 1: did that come up? What does he say that indicated

591
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 1: to you that you was jealous? He's just a jealous man,

592
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: controlling Where are you going? Who are you going with? Well,

593
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: what did you do last night? I had a scratch

594
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 1: on my back once that got him very very angry

595
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: because he insisted it came from me having sex with

596
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 1: a person who wasn't During the time that you were

597
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: in a sexual relationship with mister DApp, was it common

598
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: for him to say things to you about being controlling,

599
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: to us your words, or being jealous, yeah, Harry common.

600
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: And when in these instances, when mister Steph became jealous

601
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 1: or controlling, did he also become angry? Yeah? And demanding two.

602
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: Doctor Charles Hell are joining me, forensic psychologist, I'd like

603
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 1: to hear what you think about that. Yeah, with all

604
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 1: due respects, I disagree with what Julie said. I understand

605
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: that she is an expert in domestic violence. I'm also

606
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: an expert in domestic violence, and I also treat patience,

607
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: and I also know about the truth about the frequency

608
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 1: of false allegations, and they have to be assessed, and

609
00:40:54,760 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 1: we can't just generally accept everything and accuser says. For example,

610
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: and Julie said that Johnny Depp said that he wanted

611
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:10,240
Speaker 1: to kill Hamber, Well, that's not really correct. He said

612
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: that he did write those texts, which I believe were

613
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:18,879
Speaker 1: more tongue in cheek than actual threats. He didn't want

614
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: to kill her, but this is the Niets and daughter

615
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: Charles Heller. I don't believe, and of course I have

616
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: to go read his text to find out. But the

617
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 1: last time I tried to read them, my eyes started

618
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 1: bleeding because they were so boring. I don't believe my

619
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: husband would ever write a text about my rotting corpse

620
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: in the trunk of a car, Nor would I. I

621
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 1: didn't even say it tastes like dirt my mouth say

622
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:47,879
Speaker 1: that about my husband ever never. Well, that's true, But

623
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: you know, people have idiosyncrasies. It doesn't mean that what

624
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: they type are going to see what they're gonna say.

625
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:59,399
Speaker 1: That's on the pig calling it an idiosyncrasy, Julie, I

626
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: I find that more than an idiosyncrasy. I mean, I

627
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: know in my mind, as a veteran trial lawyer, why

628
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 1: this jury found for Depp because they did not like

629
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,959
Speaker 1: Amber heard. They thought she lied, They thought she set

630
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: him up for money, and that this was a part

631
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: of the setup, and they didn't want anything to do

632
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 1: with it. They weren't having it. That's why I think happened. Yeah,

633
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: I know, she did lie. But what I'm saying, Julie Owens,

634
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 1: texts like that are not just an idiosyncrasy. When you're

635
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 1: talking about your exes did rotting corpse and how you

636
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 1: want to make sure she's dead to you gonna effort

637
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 1: first the corpse, that's not an idiosyncrasy exactly. You said it, Nancy.

638
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,399
Speaker 1: And somebody said, said, Jesse, why did he Why didn't

639
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: Kate Moss, Why didn't Ellen Dark say that they were used?

640
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,919
Speaker 1: You know why? Because this was a man who said,

641
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: we're married. Now I can punch her in the face

642
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 1: and no one can do anything about it. Well, speaking

643
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 1: of that, what about his wife, Vanessa Paradies. She never

644
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: came forward with any claim. They wasn't called. They were

645
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: never married, but they were in a monogamous common law relationship. Oh, agreed, agreed.

646
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: But if if the argument is when him saying she's

647
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: my wife now I can beat her, he technically was

648
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,240
Speaker 1: never married to Vanessa Parades, so maybe he was waiting

649
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: for that. I'm not buying the distinction that you have

650
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: to be married to him to a wife beater for

651
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: him to beat you. I don't think that holds up

652
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 1: with Depp. I don't think the marriage certificate makes the difference.

653
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: I think that the jury knew about Vanessa Paradies. I

654
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 1: think that they knew about Ellen Barkin obviously, and they

655
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 1: heard from Barkin, and they heard from Moss. None of

656
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: those women would state that Depp beat them, and I

657
00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 1: think that that all culminated in this verdict. I believe

658
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 1: they thought Amber heard lied. Guys, we know now that

659
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 1: an appeal is on. What about it, Kaitlin Backer, They're

660
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: already talking about an appeal. They are already talking about

661
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 1: an appeal. Pretty much immediately after the verdict came down,

662
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: they were talking about an appeal. Amber heard her team

663
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:21,439
Speaker 1: is certainly going to appeal, and at the very least,

664
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: they're probably going to try to get that number of

665
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: the damages reduced because as we know, she doesn't have

666
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: that kind of money. She didn't have the money to

667
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: pay the acou donation. She's not that wealthy from what

668
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 1: I understand, and it looks like her acting gigs have dried.

669
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: App what's going to happen next, Well, one thing we know,

670
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 1: there's no way to predict what will happen in depth.

671
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: They heard Nancy Grace Crown's story signing off goodbye, for