1 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Floomberg's sound on 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:10,239 Speaker 1: little income families need to help. We're coming out of 3 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 1: COPD nineteen. You want to keep our economy strong. When 4 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: you have an infrastructure build, there's spin off back, their 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: spin offtion cities from towns all across from America. Floomberg 6 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: Sound on Politics, Policy and Perspective from DC's top name. 7 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: So we need to incentivize the manufacturing of chips in America. 8 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: I do believe that acting of state could effective, but 9 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: I think what government's role is to share the clients, 10 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,279 Speaker 1: share the fact share the benefits. Schloomberg Sound on with 11 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. And they're back. Lawmakers streaming 12 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: back into the Capitol to deal with infrastructure and a 13 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: budget resolution that the Democratic leadership has been pushing, and 14 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: at this hour it appears they still do not have 15 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: the votes to pass it. We're going to bring you 16 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: the latest from Capitol Hill straight ahead with critical votes 17 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: set for the next twenty four hours. We'll talk about 18 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 1: it with Michael Hardaway, former communications director for the House 19 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: Democratic Caucus, founder of the Hardaway Wire, and we will 20 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: turn to Afghanistan this hour with news on both fronts. Today, 21 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: new questions about the US timeline to evacuate Americans and 22 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 1: Afghans will be joined by Mark Jacobson, former NATO representative, 23 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: In Kabbal, former senior advisor to the Secretary of Defense, 24 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: and we'll run it all by the panel. Rick and 25 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: Genie are with us today, Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie she 26 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 1: and Say No and Rick Davis. As we consider the rule, 27 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: this is where Emily was going the order of events 28 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: infrastructure first or the budget resolution. We know where Nancy 29 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,199 Speaker 1: Pelosi is on this. We know where the White House 30 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: is in sync here. After Joe Biden endorsed the so 31 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: called rule, Secretary Jen Saki took questions about the way 32 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: this was going to work. Today, what I want to 33 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: be clear with you all about is he supports Speaker 34 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: Pelosi's proposed path forward to get this process done. I'd 35 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: also know and you follow this all closely, But for 36 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: those of you watching at home, this is a procedural vote, 37 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: important one, but there are a number of different ways 38 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: forward here um. And this is a debate currently and 39 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: a healthy one and important on within the Democratic Caucus 40 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: on what different parts of the President's core agenda should 41 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 1: be passed in what order? And for those of you 42 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,679 Speaker 1: still playing along on your home game, you remember that 43 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: Speaker Pelosi has not budge on this since she said 44 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: this two months ago on infrastructure bill unless we have 45 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: the reconciliation bill passed by the United States Senate. She 46 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: used the word ain't ain't going to do it. And 47 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: we bring in Democratic strategist Michael Hardaway for more on this. 48 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: Former communications director for the House Democratic Caucus and by 49 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: way of Representative HOCKEYM. Jeffrey's office, he now provides intelligence 50 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: to CEOs through his heart Away wire. Michael, welcome. Is 51 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: this Democratic leadership capable of straddling demands from progressives and 52 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 1: moderate Somebody needs to blink tonight, you know, Joe Um, 53 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: I'm not sure Lebron James could pull out this victory, 54 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: but I have no doubt that Speaker Pelosi can and 55 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: will for one reason, and that is whenever you see 56 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: her dig her heals in on an issue, it's because 57 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: she knows he has the votes, and she knows that 58 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: she has the votes on the three and half trillion 59 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: dollar bill with Democrats throughout the caucus, and they want 60 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 1: that voted on first before they move forward with the 61 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: bipartisan Senate bill. You also have this dynamic where rank 62 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: and file House Democrats are disgruntled about the process by 63 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: which the Senate bill was done. And I think to 64 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: that end, it's not just Pelosi that's digging for heals in, 65 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: it's also members throughout the House Democratic Caucus. And I 66 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: think for that reason, the moderate House Democrats will eventually fold, uh, 67 00:03:54,760 --> 00:04:00,160 Speaker 1: and they'll go along with Speaker Pelosi's demands listen right 68 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: for it. I appreciate that, Michael. That's your belief, and 69 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: it's based on history. Right. We we think back to 70 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: what happened with the A c A, the debate around Obamacare. 71 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: The deal was left for dead. Nancy Pelosi made her 72 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 1: bones yet again in that moment. Do you think then 73 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 1: this is some sort of sleight of hand by this 74 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: group of nine moderates. They all know they're going to fold, 75 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: but they get to tell voters that they fought for 76 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: what their district needed in the end. That's exactly right. 77 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 1: And but the reality is, you know, if those moderates 78 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: we're playing three dimensional chest, they would say to themselves, 79 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: let's support the three and a half chillion dollar bill, 80 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: knowing that when it gets to the Senate, it's in 81 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: trouble the supported in the House, and then we get 82 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: the Senate bill that we want to pass into law. 83 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,280 Speaker 1: That seems to not be their case. They seem to 84 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: be focused on being able to tell their voters that 85 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: they opposed this initially, but they will eventually fold. And 86 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: you know the reality is that I've seen I've seen 87 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: this multiple times with figure Policy. When she says we'll 88 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: get something done, it's because she knows what the whip 89 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: whip count is on every single occasion, and there's no 90 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: doubt in her mind that she's got the vote to 91 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: get that done. Remembering, there are of course stages here. 92 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: There are a lot of votes that lead up to 93 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: a bill becoming laws. Sometimes people might feel one way 94 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 1: in the outset the procedural vote, then they vote a 95 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: different way on the underlying bill. Michael Hardaway, Do these 96 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 1: moderates vote for the resolution with the idea that they 97 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: could later withhold their votes on reconciliation. Is that where 98 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: you're going. I think that's generally the that's generally the strategy. 99 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: But I see them voting for vote. I think I 100 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: think what you'll see as a process where they'll feel 101 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: better about the three and a half chur and dollar bill, 102 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: because ultimately, I think that number becomes much smaller by 103 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: the time it gets to the Senate. I think much 104 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: of it it is also paid for, and so I 105 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: think those House moderates well not only vote for the rule, 106 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: but they'll vote for the eventual final vote on the 107 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: reconciliation bill. We're talking with Democratic strategist Michael Hardaway, former 108 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: communications director for the House Democratic Caucus. He's been there, 109 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: and I'm sure you're still in touch with a lot 110 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,159 Speaker 1: of these folks. Does this make the case then, Michael, 111 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 1: for having veterans in leadership? You remember, of course, there 112 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: was a real challenge to Nancy Pelosi for getting that 113 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,239 Speaker 1: gavel back. But if she gets deals like this done, 114 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: does that make the case for her continuing to hold it. 115 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: I've been in way too many of these meetings that 116 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: House Democrats will be holding this eating at five thirty, 117 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: and I can tell you that the Speaker will preside 118 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 1: over this in a way that moved the ball forward. 119 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: And to answer your question, you absolutely need experience, But 120 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: I think the smart way to do this is you 121 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: have a good mix of the energy from the younger, 122 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: more aggressive members. And then you have this season, uh, 123 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 1: legislators that know how to get things done, and you 124 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: put them together. So take us for a moment inside 125 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,919 Speaker 1: that meeting. Then, Michael, how is this going to take place? 126 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 1: You said the speaker will preside, you're gonna have those 127 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: members that she does she put them in the back row. 128 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: Is there is a little punishment or do you put 129 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: them in the front row and deal with them firsthand 130 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: in front of everybody. Right, this will be done in 131 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: front of the whole family. This will be done in 132 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: front of the entire family. Technically, Uh, How's Democratic Caucus Chairman? 133 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: He King Jeffrey's host the event and Speaker Pelosi is 134 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: sort of the orchestrator of the event. But the King 135 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: Jeffreys technically hosted. And you'll have a situation where the 136 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: speaker will open up and she'll lay out her case 137 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: in terms of why she thinks we didn't need to 138 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: move forward in the way that we need to. And 139 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: then she'll open up the floor and allow any members 140 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: to speak out they wish to. And I would say 141 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: to you that I anticipate you know there are nine 142 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: are so moderate How's Democrats been are in an opposition. 143 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: I think you'll have no more than two that speak up. 144 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: You'll probably see Josh Gidenheimer, uh, the leader of that group. 145 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: He'll likely speak up, and then maybe one other person. 146 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: But ultimately they'll fold. Whether it's this evening or whether 147 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: it's later, I think they will eventually come on board. Fascinating. 148 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: Pelosi sent a letter to her caucus over the weekend 149 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: and it says, any delay to passing the budget this 150 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: is a dear colleague. You know you're in trouble when 151 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: you get a dear colleague letter. Any delay to passing 152 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: the budget resolution threatens the timetable for delivering the historic 153 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: progress and the transformative vision that Democrats share. So we're 154 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: supposed to imagine Nancy Pelosi saying this while she's making 155 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: eye contact with those who are opposing this plan, right, 156 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: is that how you take care of this in the 157 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: room right there? And then Nancy Polsy is about five 158 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: ft three and she's one of the most intimidating people 159 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: I've ever seen. And I would say to you that 160 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. She will the people who oppose this effort, 161 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: she will require them to speak up and explain in 162 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: front of the entire caucus. Why that is and the 163 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: conversation will be And that's a tough effort when there 164 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: are eight or nine of you and you're going against 165 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: you know, two hundred eleven or two hundred and told people. 166 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: And I think that will be a difficult case for 167 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 1: Goddenheimer and the rest of the moderates to make. Now 168 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: I'm nervous, not even in this meeting, what happens to 169 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: Godheimer after this is done. If he backs out gracefully 170 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: and we only have what we have less than a 171 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 1: minute here, Michael does, does his career stay intact? Is 172 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: he in the Speaker's good graces? He'll be perfectly fine. 173 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: He's well respected and like throughout the caucus, and at 174 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: the end of the day, he represents this group on 175 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: all of these issues, and he's always a fair arbiter 176 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: and negotiator in these situations. And so I think from 177 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: the perspective of the Speaker, from the perspective of Kim 178 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: Jeffreys and others, Uh, they have a good relationship with Goddenheimer, 179 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: and I think he'll be perfectly fine. This is why 180 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: he's paid to provide political intelligence to CEO's Democratic strategist 181 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: Michael Hardaway. We thank you for the insights today on 182 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: sound On. You're listening to Bloomberg Owned On with Joe 183 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: Matthew On Bloomberg Radio speaker. Pelosi is busy whipping votes 184 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 1: with an important meeting about to get underway with House 185 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 1: Democrats who do not all agree on the way forward, 186 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: So a good time to assemble the panel with Bloomberg 187 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: Politics contributors Jeanie she and Zano and Rick Davis both 188 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: with us for the hour. It's go time here, Jeannie. 189 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: Is this where Nancy Pelosi pulls a rabbit out of 190 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 1: her hat and get this caucus together? I think it is. 191 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: I was just thinking, we're talking to Emily and Michael. 192 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: It sounds like, you know, a Thanksgiving dinner where people 193 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: are from all sides of the political aisle and they're 194 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: gonna fight. I wish I was there. It's going to 195 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: be fascinating. But you know, I agree with Michael, nobody 196 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: is better at counting votes than Nancy Pelosi. To your point, 197 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: she has the experience. She is really really good at this. 198 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 1: She has almost never lost a vote. That said, this 199 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: is very tricky. I mean, you look at this justice 200 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: Democrats this Political Action Committee releasing an ad attacking the 201 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: Moderates over the weekend, and then you juxtaposed that with 202 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: Joe Manchin coming out and saying move this infrastructure built forward. 203 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: So she is getting squeezed on all sides, not just 204 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: in her own caucus but from the Senate as well. 205 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: If anybody can do it, she can. But it is 206 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: going to be a tricky you know, needle to threat 207 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 1: if you will. I guess that is true. Rick, You've 208 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: been in meetings like the one we're about to see 209 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: here on the Democratic side, Do you agree with Michael 210 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: Hardaway that Nancy Pelosi can in fact to get a 211 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: deal done here. Yeah, She's gonna pick the right enemies, right, 212 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: and they're not gonna be within her own caucus. Uh. 213 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: They may be within her party, but they'll be Senate 214 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 1: Democrats who will be the problem for her, not how Democrats. 215 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: The way this is setting up is that she's she's 216 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: basically creating the Senate Democrats is the the only ones 217 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: who can stop reconciliation, but also the only ones who 218 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: can allow the infrastructure vote to go forward, because she 219 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: wants the Senate to vote on reconciliation before she takes 220 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,839 Speaker 1: it up. So everyone's for the budget resolution that's not 221 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 1: going to cause any trouble, and everyone's for infrastructure. It's 222 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: when does reconciliation get handled in the Senate is her 223 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: stocking horse, and she'll try to leverage that with the 224 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: House Democrats who are moderates who want to go for 225 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: infrastructure first. It's great politics. Congressman Gottheimer is a very 226 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: smart political operator and has a lot of backing with 227 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: the business community and the Chamber of Commerce and and 228 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: so he's got some cards to play. He's got nine 229 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: Democrats who who want to see something positive said about infrastructure, 230 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: if not a vote right away. I would also say 231 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: it's interesting to see what's going on with the Biden 232 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: administration because they can't have a worse week last week, 233 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: and they need a win, and the only one on 234 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: the table right now is infrastructure. They could actually have 235 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 1: a signing ceremony pretty soon, but who knows if they're 236 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: gonna want to leverage that with Nancy Pelosi. I agree, 237 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi is holding all the cards right now, and it 238 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: it will be interesting to see how she plays them well. Gotdheimer, 239 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: in his aide colleagues rote or not ed in the 240 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: Washington Post and it starts by saying time kills deals. Genie, 241 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: is you right? He is? You know that's the danger here, 242 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: and I agree with Rick. I think, you know, given 243 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: what's happened over the last week or so for the 244 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: Biden administration, they may be itching more than they were 245 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: prior to getting something past that they can celebrate. But 246 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: of course they want to get both of these things past, 247 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 1: so they're gonna have to wait. And the question is 248 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: does pushing this off until September October kill one or 249 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: both of these deals? And that's a big challenge. I 250 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,600 Speaker 1: would also say, you know, something I am really curious 251 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: about is how two is playing into this for Nancy 252 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: Pelosi because this election for Democrats will be one in 253 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: these purple districts if there to hold the House. And 254 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: I think one of the things that Goteimer has said, 255 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: which I agree with, is they've got to be very 256 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: careful about anything that looks like they are increasing the 257 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 1: deficit to the point that they start to lose some 258 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,440 Speaker 1: of these independents who will decide who carries a house. 259 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,079 Speaker 1: And that is a big changer for Nancy Pelosi as speaker. 260 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: So you know how that figures into what she's doing here, 261 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: I think is a fascinating aspect as well, if indeed 262 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: she wants to be Speaker again. So what happens to 263 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: Josh Gottheimer after all of this Rick, assuming he folds 264 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: in and is that your expectation? Does this help his 265 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: career at least in his own district? Is he in 266 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: the doghouse with Nancy Pelosi? Well, as long as the 267 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: endgame is getting a infrastructure package signed by the President 268 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: United States, he'll have a victory downstream. So he's kind 269 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: of putting that in his pocket and saying, how do 270 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: I get through this this next tumultuous period, and he'll 271 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 1: be the go to guy in the moderate caucus in 272 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: the House. He'll sort of become the Joe Mansion of 273 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: the House, right, I meanly, he's, oh my god, the 274 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 1: three vote margin in the in the House of Representatives 275 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: with Democratic control. So this sounds like it's good for 276 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: man has become. Yeah, it's very good for his career. 277 00:14:57,160 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: And look at we're all talking about him, right and 278 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,479 Speaker 1: this was who is talking about Joe Mansion two years ago? Nobody? 279 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: That's right? So I think he's following that path and 280 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: it's a good path to follow. I'm talking with Brick 281 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: and Jeanie the panel on Bloomberg Sound on what's going 282 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: to happen in the the next twenty four hours here than Jennie, 283 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: do you believe the resolution, the procedural votes and either 284 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: the resolution passes I do. I I think she will 285 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: pull this out. I think it will pass. And you know, 286 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: I think what's going to happen with somebody like a 287 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: Gottheimer is that's how our system works. It allows one 288 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: or small groups of people to have an outsized influence, 289 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: whether it's Kristen Cinema, Joe Mansion or Josh Gottheimer or 290 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: even some of these progressives if they choose to step up, 291 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: and that's both great for them personally, but a problem 292 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: for the party overall, and I think a problem for 293 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: our system of government. So this is what happens when 294 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: you have a House so narrowly divided, and you know, 295 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: just getting this vote done tonight and moving forward in 296 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: the House, we still have to go back to the Senate, 297 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: and again Joe Mansion has said, do not do this, 298 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: you know, push this the big through and then we'll 299 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: deal and and get that trillion dollar package down to 300 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: something that we can swallow. So progressives may not be 301 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 1: happy in the end either. As we turned to the 302 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: situation in Afghanistan and a lot of questions about whether 303 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: we will stay beyond August thirty one, the withdrawal date 304 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: headlines this morning on the terminal, the Taliban said, no, 305 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: you can't extend that. That's a red line, and White 306 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: House National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan was asked about it 307 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: today repeatedly in the briefing room. We are engaging with 308 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: the Taliban. UH consulting with the Taliban on every aspect 309 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: of what's happening in Cobble right now, on what's happening 310 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: at the airport, on how we need to ensure that 311 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: there is facilitated passage to the airport for American citizens, 312 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: s i v s, Third country nationals and so forth. 313 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: Will continue those conversations with them. Ultimately, it will be 314 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: the president's decision how this proceeds, no one else's. He 315 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: was repeatedly asked that and gave pretty similar versions of 316 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: that answer. But to hear Jake Sullivan say it will 317 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: be Joe Biden's decision and no one else's would run 318 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: counter to what we heard earlier today, and a good 319 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: time to bring in Mark Jacobson, former Deputy Senior Civilian 320 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: Representative for NATO incabble. He's actually been there, Former Senior 321 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: Advisor to the Defense Secretary Ash Carter. Mark, It's great 322 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: to have you with us. You're one of the few 323 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,959 Speaker 1: people we can talk to who has actually spent time 324 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: at that airport and around the area that US forces 325 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: are protecting. And also you have a good sense of 326 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,400 Speaker 1: what the Taliban is dealing with in terms of its 327 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 1: own cards here. Is it true that Joe Biden will 328 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,080 Speaker 1: make that decision on when the US leaves. I have 329 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: to say one thing about the President since the day 330 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: he made that decision, no matter how long I think 331 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: he was, no matter how bad a job I think 332 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: we're doing at the noncombatant Evacuation operation, he has owned 333 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,360 Speaker 1: that decision. I'm gonna tell you, I voted for the man. 334 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: I was very happy to vote for him. I voted 335 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: for Barack Obama. But Barack Obama didn't know his own 336 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: things the way the President Biden has in terms of Afghanistan. 337 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: And I won't even speak to the guy in between. 338 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: But the what I think is really important is that 339 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:21,480 Speaker 1: things are not only not going well, that the timeline 340 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: makes it almost certain that we will not get American 341 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: every American citizen out. We will certainly not get every 342 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: American Green card holder out. We're not going to get 343 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: those Afghans with special immigrant visas that that in many 344 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: cases save the lives of US military personnel out, nor 345 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: the other members of Afghan civil society who have stood 346 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: by us, and because they stood by us, they are 347 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: going to be killed if they're left behind. Well, this 348 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: is also not what Jake Sullivan said today to reporters. 349 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: He's he said, the White House believes that we can 350 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 1: get every American out who wants to get out, And 351 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's a cove we need to 352 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: talk about here by August thirty one, Afghans mark could 353 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 1: be a different matter. Well, look, Jake is one of 354 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: the most intelligent people I've ever met. He is he 355 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: is a wonderful policymaker and bureaucrat. However, if you part 356 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: what he's saying the White House believes, the White House 357 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: can be wrong, they absolutely can be wrong. Also, I 358 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: know that there are no doubt there are American citizens 359 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: who want to stay behind and let me explain this. 360 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: There may be a one off who says, you know, 361 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to Taliban rule. I mean, right, there 362 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: could be. What's happening is because of the rules that 363 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,240 Speaker 1: the White House, White House and State Department is set 364 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: up for the embassy down there, it is impossible, near 365 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: impossible to get mixed families in. In In other words, let's 366 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 1: say you have a father with the US passport, but 367 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:02,120 Speaker 1: the the wife mother has an Afghan passport. The children 368 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: may get in, but the mother is going to stay behind. 369 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: And why is that one. It's because the way that 370 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: we're getting some of the ways we're getting people in. 371 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: The Taliban just won't let the Afghan passport holder through 372 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: at the gates. The Marines are not allowed to let 373 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: the Afghan passport holders through. And the rule is they say, 374 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: we don't want to split up families, so everyone stay outside. 375 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,919 Speaker 1: And what I think Jake could be referring to is 376 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: there are American citizens who say, I am not leaving 377 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: here unless I'm leaving with my my whole family. I 378 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: mean just the whole immediate family, not sure cousins, uncles, 379 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:43,400 Speaker 1: and aunts. If that's what they're playing off of, that's 380 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,199 Speaker 1: incredibly dishonest. Well, at that point, you're a victim of 381 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: the system here, and it's I guess it's difficult for 382 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: us to tell if that's the case here, Mark, But 383 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: I have to admit as I as I see the 384 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: footage I heard about this skirmish last night, shots were fired, 385 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: Americans were not hurt, but an Afghan die. And I 386 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: wonder how worried you are about this situation evolving with 387 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: either God forbid, I'm I'm I don't even want to 388 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 1: say it. An American gets killed here, we have a 389 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: hostage situation. We have so little idea of what's going 390 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 1: on right now that that would change the story. And 391 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: I presume the timeline pretty quickly. Mark, Well, look, a 392 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: break in the ceasefire would would almost certainly change the timeline. Um. 393 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,719 Speaker 1: You know what we're very fortunate at is this has 394 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 1: been able to be done in a peace relatively peaceful situation. 395 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 1: And there are a lot of bureaucratic hiccups, some that 396 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: even if they had planned for months, would have happened. 397 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: There's also operational hiccups. I mean, it's a difficult city, um, 398 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: to navigate, and now you have a difficult city to 399 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: operate and so let's ask ourselves this. If we start 400 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 1: to get in a situation where there is shooting going on, 401 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 1: it makes it a completely different ballgame. And I really 402 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: I don't want to think about that. But at the 403 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: same time, it may come to that, and and the 404 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 1: President is going to have to decide what it's more important. 405 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 1: You know, the Pentagon is certainly planning for that as 406 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: a possibility, aren't I only have a minute left. I 407 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: hate to say this because I'm enjoying this conversation quite 408 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: a bit here, but if we're in a world where 409 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: we're going back in to get Americans or Afghans, doesn't 410 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: that become a skirmish all on its own? I guess 411 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,719 Speaker 1: you know what, those who support the president's position are 412 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: going to look negatively at something like that. Uh. Those 413 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,479 Speaker 1: who are opposed to lay he's doing it aren't going 414 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: to have a problem, uh with with a few thousand 415 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: more troops having to go in, or maybe just the 416 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: use of air power and special operations forces. But look 417 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: at the polling the countries. You know what about fifty 418 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 1: fifty it's been dropping in terms of supported the withdraw 419 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: And now can I say one last thing though? The 420 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: military down there, the eighty second Airborne tenth Mountain Division. 421 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: The Marines are doing a fantastic job. They're in a 422 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: incredibly difficult situation and they want to get outside the 423 00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: wire and help people. They want to let the Afghans in, 424 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: but the policy set by the State Department and by 425 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 1: the White House isn't letting them do that. And let 426 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: me add I've been on the phone and on and 427 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,440 Speaker 1: talking to many embassy officials as well as civilians from 428 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: the States Department down there. They are just livid, mad, upset, heartbroken, 429 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: and they're upset as well that the restrictions they have. 430 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: So what So what we're looking at is if we 431 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: don't change those policies, there's no way we can finish 432 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,360 Speaker 1: by the thirty first, even with the Americans, much less 433 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: the Afghans. So you've set up the situation of whether 434 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 1: or not we have to stay in the possibility of 435 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: a confrontation with the Taliban. Well, you know what we've 436 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: been the White House has been talking about all this 437 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 1: incredible military power we have. I mean, what does it 438 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: say to the rest of the world when we fail 439 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: to take these people out and and run scared from 440 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 1: the Taliban? And I don't want a war again. I 441 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: don't want my friends to have to go there, and 442 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,719 Speaker 1: I don't want any American to have to do that. 443 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: But you know what i'd be interesting, you know, you 444 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: go talk to the troops that the thousand or so 445 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: volunteers that are working uh day and night to get 446 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: the Afghans out through a virtual network there is, and 447 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: those who are on the ground. I just don't think 448 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:11,439 Speaker 1: sometimes the White House understands that it's about more than 449 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 1: than a mission statement. You know, It's about what what 450 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,919 Speaker 1: is supposed to be done. It's about you know, the 451 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: administration likes to say that, well, um, you know this 452 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: could never be done the right way. Yes, it could have, 453 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: and the professionals warned that this is what was going 454 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: to happen. And and I just I think that, you know, 455 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,640 Speaker 1: there are ways forward that don't require a full scale war. 456 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: They're ways forward where the military could say, Look, you're 457 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 1: gonna have a safe haven up at Bagram Airfield and 458 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: that's gonna be it. We're gonna put put Afghans there, 459 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,679 Speaker 1: you have cobble back, you're gonna let us get everybody out, 460 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: and you're gonna give us more time. Sorry to be 461 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 1: you know, all over the place with that. But that's 462 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I just don't see the current plan working, 463 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: and the White House knows it's not working, And I 464 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: just don't understand why such an incredible foreign policy team 465 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: is either advising the president the wrong way or telling 466 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: you that you are not being able to get the 467 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: President to see the reality of the situation. Mark Jakobinson, 468 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 1: thank you for waiting on the line for a couple 469 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: of extra minutes to make that point. It sounds to 470 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: me like this day's got to move. Rick and Janie 471 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: are with us our panel, of course, our classic sound 472 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: on panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Jennie she and Zano and 473 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: Rick Davis. I guess i'll throw this to both of 474 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: you the same question. Are we going to have to 475 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: move this beyond August thirty one? And based on what 476 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,679 Speaker 1: we heard from Mark, Genie will start with you. Is 477 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 1: it going to involve a new plan? Like he was saying, fine, 478 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,239 Speaker 1: take cobble, We're going to bog room and that's going 479 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 1: to be our jumping off point for as long as 480 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 1: we need it to be. I do think we are 481 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,639 Speaker 1: going to extend it beyond August thirty one, and I 482 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: think what they're trying to avoid in the White House 483 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: is that they bump up to nine eleven anniversary. UM, 484 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,399 Speaker 1: so I know that they're hoping that doesn't happen. I 485 00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 1: do think, of course, they need a new plan. Whether 486 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: that involves going back to Bogram, I don't imagine they 487 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 1: would want to do that after they shut that down. 488 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: I mean, you had reporters biking up and down the 489 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: runways there and now to go back in, I can't 490 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,920 Speaker 1: imagine they'd want to do that. But they do need 491 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,959 Speaker 1: a new plan. Our allies have been very clear on it. 492 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: You just talked about Boris Johnson. You know, obviously our 493 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,199 Speaker 1: friends and supporters in Afghanistan, certainly all the people on 494 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: the ground who worked there and gave so much of 495 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: themselves and their lives. Um, we have to have a 496 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: new plan to do that. I just don't think we 497 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: have a sense yet what that might be. But they 498 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: they're going to have to release that or at least 499 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: put it into place pretty soon. Rick Davis, I bet 500 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: you can hear John McCain in your head right now 501 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 1: talking about this August thirty one self imposed deadline. What 502 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: should they do? Yeah, this is the point you made 503 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: over and over and over about both Iraq and Afghanistan. 504 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: Is the mini you set a deadline, you're telegraphing to 505 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: your enemies exactly when they need to just sit down 506 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: and wait for you, because you know they're going to 507 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,240 Speaker 1: be gone and you can go over after that deadline. 508 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 1: And this is all about boots on the ground. It's 509 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 1: all about like what happens with conditions in that airport, 510 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: in in Kabul and around the country, UH by the 511 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: end of this next week. And and to put a 512 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: date on it was the first mistake this administration made 513 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: in a whole chain of mistakes. Now you know today 514 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 1: in the last twenty four hours, they've they've been able 515 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 1: to move you know, thirty seven thousand people UH in 516 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: the in the last week and in in fifteen thousand 517 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: one days, a hundred thousands. You know, if they keep 518 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: up on that pace by the end of next week, Um, 519 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: what are they going to give to the Taliban to 520 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: allow them to stay? Because I think the point that 521 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,679 Speaker 1: Mark was just making is that we don't get to 522 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: make the decisions without repercussions. And if the Taliban, which 523 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: they said today they expect us to stay on track 524 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: to be out of there on the thirty one? Um, 525 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: what do we got to do to buy their support? 526 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,880 Speaker 1: And and is that less politically tout, you know, acceptable 527 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: than actually leaving without the job being done? This this 528 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 1: administration is and advice, and that vice is only going 529 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: to get tighter as a week progresses, as we get 530 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 1: closer to what can we give them? Though, Rick, I'm 531 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: afraid to ask what could we give them that they'd 532 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: actually want? Money. We've frozen all their overseas assets, almost 533 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: all the assets financially in this country. We're in overseas accounts. 534 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 1: They don't have any money, they don't have any food. 535 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: They're gonna have a humanitarian crisis on their hands. If 536 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: they actually want to run the country, which they claim 537 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: they want to, they can't do it without those resources, 538 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,359 Speaker 1: and the Western government's control those resources. There's only so 539 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: much that Russia or China or any of these other 540 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: groups are going to allow them to do with their finances, 541 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: and so they're going to be dependent upon that. And um, 542 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: right now, then you ask government gets control of that 543 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: that policy, and if that policy winds up releasing millions 544 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: of dollars to the Talibani's in exchange for extending that 545 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: period of time. Wow, I mean I can tell you 546 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: what the polls to look like. Yeah. Well, and look, 547 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: it may be a bad look, genie, but I used 548 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: to have an old boss who said, if you have 549 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: a problem that can be solved with money, it's not 550 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,479 Speaker 1: a problem, that's right, And you know that would be 551 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: the question is money enough to solve this? And you know, 552 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: we're talking about dealing with the Taliban, but let's be clear, 553 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: there is a you know, a real concern that we 554 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: are going to see some kind of terrorist attack, either 555 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: in Kabul, somewhere in Afghanistan, or god forbid, somewhere in 556 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: the United States or the West. That is a real, 557 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: real obvious problem for everybody. But when you talk about 558 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: it politically for the Biden administration, so yeah, could we 559 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: maybe deal with the Taliban? They maybe can, but it 560 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: is very, very tough to do. And you know, we 561 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: should also note that, you know, so much of what 562 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: the Biden administration is going through was set in motion 563 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: by the Trump administration. They were the ones dealing with 564 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: the Taliban, they were the ones inviting them to Camp 565 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: David on nine eleven. You know, that was put into motion, 566 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: and that's why you see the army collapse, the military 567 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: collapse as quickly as it does. And of course, now 568 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,920 Speaker 1: Joe Biden is the president who's watching this all unfold. 569 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,480 Speaker 1: And you know, I'm reminded of Marshall mcluen. The medium 570 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,959 Speaker 1: is the message, and this is all being broadcast on 571 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: social media. Very very hard to get those pictures out 572 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: of people's heads once they're out there, and that's something 573 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: that we didn't have to deal with in Vietnam. So 574 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: it is a tough situation for Biden all around. The 575 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: security situation is tenuous there. Rick. I know you've been 576 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: to Cobble when you were working with Senator McCain. You 577 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: have a sense of what that area is like, what 578 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: that city is like, more than most Americans probably do. 579 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: Do you think we actually know what's going on there? 580 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: And I ask you that based on the direction of 581 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: the conversation that I had with Mark Jacobson. What if 582 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: what if someone loses a life, what if there is 583 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,280 Speaker 1: a hostage situation? What if this thing gets just a 584 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: little bit out of control? It doesn't take much for 585 00:30:58,240 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: it to get a little bit more out of control, 586 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: all right, I mean all those things you describe, but 587 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: look I mean there are also really great stories to tell. 588 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: I mean, there have been two helicopter rescues of Americans 589 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 1: and our allies outside of the airport area where they've 590 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: gone in picked these folks up and and brought them 591 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: into safety. Um I would say um Mark did a 592 00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: good job of saying, you know, we've got to thank 593 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: the people who are on the ground doing this work 594 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: for us. And and and there's a lot of trade 595 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: craft that's being exerted right now in the country to 596 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: try and save lives. And and I think one also 597 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: shout out is to the to the community that is 598 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 1: outside the UNS government, the charitable community is bringing back 599 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 1: people on their own. A lot of these flights leaving 600 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: Kabul are are private initiation of activity to bring people 601 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: out of there because they couldn't get the government to 602 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 1: to to do it for them. So there's a lot 603 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: of a new individual initiative here. But I think you're right. 604 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: The biggest question right now on the table is how 605 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: far you can get before you hit that line and 606 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 1: what do you got to give up to get that 607 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: deadline extended if you need it. Jennie, we've got less 608 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 1: than a minute, as you well know what What should 609 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: Joe Biden tell the G seven tomorrow? What should be 610 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: his posture? He is going to have a very tough 611 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: conversation with our allies tomorrow in this virtual meeting. I 612 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 1: think he's got to try to figure out how to 613 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,320 Speaker 1: right the ship and how to keep them in the fold, 614 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: and quite frankly, to walk them off the ledge. They 615 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: are frustrated and angry, and with good reason. Jennie she 616 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: And Zano and Rick Davis are politics contributors on Bloomberg Radio. 617 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 1: Great Insights as ever, thanks to all of our guests 618 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: for helping us understand what's going on at this moment, 619 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: from Capitol Hill and infrastructure to Cobble and the winding 620 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: down of America's longest war. I'm Joe Matthew. I'll meet 621 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: you back here tomorrow, even earlier, meet you on TV 622 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: starting five o'clock in the morning. This is Bloomberg