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Speaker 1: Pushkin. James Blake has managed to distill his music down

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Speaker 1: to pure emotion. His voice is transcendent, define genre and

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Speaker 1: gender and the best of the R and B tradition.

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Speaker 1: Contrasted with the unsettled, off kilter nature of his college

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Speaker 1: style production, his sound is deeply stirring. In a word,

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Speaker 1: James Blake's music is sublime. After releasing his self titled

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Speaker 1: debut album in two and eleven, the British born James

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Speaker 1: Blake went on to win Grammys and England's top music honor,

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Speaker 1: the Mercury Prize. He's also produced and collaborated with a

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Speaker 1: ton of musicians, including Jay Z, Beyonce, Billie Eilish and

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Speaker 1: Travis Scott. James flew from England to work with Rick

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Speaker 1: Rubin at Shangrela and Malibu in twenty sixteen. They worked

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Speaker 1: together on a third album, The Color and Anything, and

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Speaker 1: as you'll hear in this conversation with Rick Today, James

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Speaker 1: Blake had a life changing experience while working and living

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Speaker 1: at Shango Law with Jamila Jamil, but the time was

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Speaker 1: his new girlfriend. James also recalls an embarrassing experience that

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Speaker 1: left him making music in secret for years and tells

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Speaker 1: Rick that recording his new EP of covers solidified his

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Speaker 1: love of perfect pop songs. This is broken record liner

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Speaker 1: notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmond. Just a

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Speaker 1: quick note here. You can listen to all of the

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Speaker 1: music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, which you

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Speaker 1: can find a link to in the show notes for

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Speaker 1: licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced in this episode,

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Speaker 1: you'll hear this sound effect all right. Enjoy the episode.

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Speaker 1: Here's Rick, Rubin and James live from Shangola talk about

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Speaker 1: from from the first album, like from making things. How

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Speaker 1: did it start and what was your process because I

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Speaker 1: imagine it's evolved over time. Yeah, first album, let's start

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Speaker 1: with the well, the first album, I think everything started from.

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Speaker 1: In fact, very often I would just sing into the

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Speaker 1: mic and then I would remix the vocal essentially so

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Speaker 1: like my brother. Yeah, So that one was just I

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Speaker 1: sang it into the mic as a free floating vocal,

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Speaker 1: no music behind it, and and then I built the

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Speaker 1: entire production around that one vocal and if I remember correctly,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't change all one. I was gonna say, it's

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Speaker 1: all one vocal phrase that just gets stacked and just

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Speaker 1: harmonized the different ways. Pretty sure. It's one vocal phrase.

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Speaker 1: We listen to that. Let's let's incredible, it's incredible, it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: I would just thinking as I was listening to that,

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Speaker 1: since your first album came out, I've not been introduced

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Speaker 1: to any artists since that. I've liked more than you

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Speaker 1: since that time. That's Sae, It's it's the truth. Nobody

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Speaker 1: close like it's my favorite music. Thank you music. That's

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Speaker 1: an unbelievable accolade and compliment. Thank you. It's unlike anything.

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Speaker 1: It's so original and so musical, and so seemingly awkward

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Speaker 1: yet so musical. It doesn't make sense, doesn't make sense

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Speaker 1: for it to be as groovy as it is for

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Speaker 1: the pieces to come together. That that really seemed like

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Speaker 1: they don't fit together. Yeah, they really didn't seem really

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Speaker 1: don't seem like fether. It felt like, I mean, I

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Speaker 1: haven't heard that in six or seven years, and it

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Speaker 1: felt really strange. Yeah, but in the best way, like

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Speaker 1: like you're surprised by the changes, Yeah, because no one

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Speaker 1: other than you would have made those changes. I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: even have made those changes, now, you know. And that's

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Speaker 1: that's the thing. Is that my you know, the things

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Speaker 1: that surprise me now are different. Yeah, so obviously the

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Speaker 1: sound of my music change. But but I and I

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Speaker 1: know I could never go back and do the same thing. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but once you've kind of bottled something, there's no need

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Speaker 1: to to do it again. But but I when I

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Speaker 1: listened to it, I'm like, it makes me think of

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Speaker 1: what I was and who I was then. I almost look,

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Speaker 1: it's almost like I took that vocal and I flew

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Speaker 1: it to like fifty different countries and put a different

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Speaker 1: backdrop on it. Yes, and it's drilling and it's really fun.

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Speaker 1: It's thrilling. Like I'm listening back to it, I'm like,

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Speaker 1: oh that's you know, Yeah, it's really I got it.

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Speaker 1: I got something right. I really felt, because it's actually

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Speaker 1: unusual to listen back to something you did before and

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Speaker 1: go and and feel like it's still kind of weirdly perfect,

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Speaker 1: even though it's kind of crazy. Yes, and if you

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Speaker 1: said you you wouldn't make the same choices today. But

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Speaker 1: hearing it, it's super cool. I'm glad at it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's glad that it's in the world. Yeah, I'm really

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Speaker 1: glad I did. It's actually really kind of sweet to

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Speaker 1: listen to this stuff because there wouldn't be another time

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Speaker 1: I would do this, and it's and it's kind of

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Speaker 1: re engaging, almost like revisiting, like a cellular structure that

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Speaker 1: I had before. Yes, so tell me about how how

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Speaker 1: did you make that? What do you remember about it?

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Speaker 1: And what do you remember about yourself? Then I would

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Speaker 1: have been in my university housing and what school did

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Speaker 1: you go to? It was Goldsmith's College. And I was

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Speaker 1: incredibly I would say reclusive. I would say I was

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Speaker 1: very angry, I think, and very lonely, and I didn't

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Speaker 1: have I wasn't in a relationship. I'd never been in one.

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Speaker 1: I was super sort of there was no reason for

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Speaker 1: me really to go out anywhere, so I just stayed

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Speaker 1: in my in my house. I remember being dreamily, highly

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Speaker 1: emotional at that time. I was listening to Blue by

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Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell every night before I went to sleep, and

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Speaker 1: I listened to Bonivair for Emma Forever Ago every night,

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Speaker 1: and I would just sleep to that music, and then

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Speaker 1: i'd wake up and I'd feel creative and i'd just

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Speaker 1: make things. I'd make music well into the night. And

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Speaker 1: what I was normally doing is singing a vocal, and

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Speaker 1: I had this cad mic and it was cheap and

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Speaker 1: had a little Firefox sound card and a MacBook and

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Speaker 1: a Midi control and that was it. And I just

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Speaker 1: sang a couple of vocals and then what I would

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Speaker 1: do is get the massive plug in and I would

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Speaker 1: just I'd initialize the patch so it was just as

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Speaker 1: all wave and I would make it a sign wave

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Speaker 1: and I would just play it like an organ. And

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Speaker 1: what keyboard were you driving it? I was using a

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Speaker 1: just a little Midi keyboard like a am Audio thing

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Speaker 1: or like a n Ovation I think. And it was

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Speaker 1: literally something that any student would have. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: if they were yet, if they if they wanted him,

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Speaker 1: if they wanted to do that, then there was that

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Speaker 1: the barrier of entry was very low. Yes, So what

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Speaker 1: you would do, yes in terms of like in terms

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Speaker 1: of within the context of you know, because I was

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Speaker 1: lucky to even be able to afford that at the time.

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Speaker 1: My parents brought me a MacBook for college and I

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Speaker 1: just that was what I went with, and so I

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Speaker 1: was lucky to have that. But and I would find

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Speaker 1: different ways to harmonize the vocal. So what ended up

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Speaker 1: becoming sort of my trademark or even my biggest tool

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Speaker 1: was what I ended up kind of developing out of necessity,

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Speaker 1: which was to take a melody and to almost in

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Speaker 1: a sort of bark or you know, kind of in

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Speaker 1: a classical type sense, it's just take a melody and

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Speaker 1: reharmonize until I find the thing that feels good. By

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Speaker 1: that point, i'd I've been playing piano since I was

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Speaker 1: six years old, so that this came naturally to me

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Speaker 1: to try. And but it was more about placing an

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Speaker 1: emotion within the vocal with a chord, so each each

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Speaker 1: each emotional moment had its own chord, you know. So

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Speaker 1: you didn't you didn't learn that though you you I

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Speaker 1: mean you learned that yourself. Yeah. I figured it out

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Speaker 1: over I figured it out over time. Yeah, I sort of.

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Speaker 1: It was my way of creating something new out of

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Speaker 1: something that was that felt mundane, because ultimately, you know,

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Speaker 1: like a vocal unaccompanied if it's not a great melody,

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Speaker 1: and I wasn't an inspired melody writer, So I just

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Speaker 1: kind of tried to make you know, because I know,

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Speaker 1: I know people who have the gift of just being

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Speaker 1: melodically supreme, and when people can do that as fantastic.

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Speaker 1: But I wasn't able to do that, So what I

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Speaker 1: did was try and find it in other ways by

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Speaker 1: harmonizing it differently so that it seemed like an incredible

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Speaker 1: melody to me. Yes, um, I think the most I'm

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Speaker 1: going to request that we get, could we ask for

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Speaker 1: a little keyboard to be sent down just so that

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Speaker 1: you could demonstrate Yeah. Yeah, One thing I realized pretty

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Speaker 1: early on was a melody that you know, the more

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Speaker 1: I listened to it, the less special it became to me.

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Speaker 1: But if I reharmonized it, then it was exciting again.

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Speaker 1: So so to re harmonize a melody and also to

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Speaker 1: work within you know that a lot of the chord

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Speaker 1: clusters would happen because I was working with usually quite

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Speaker 1: a small MIDI controller, so I wasn't working with the

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Speaker 1: whole range. So actually, you know, how to get the

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Speaker 1: most out of I don't know, you know, two octaves

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Speaker 1: was important too. There's multiple parts in that in that

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Speaker 1: I'd never learned to share, but none of them are

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Speaker 1: all like that that like you know, hands stretched, it's

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Speaker 1: all um, you know, like just within this range. And

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Speaker 1: then I'd placed that part and then you'd have another

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Speaker 1: part there's a base and another part that's at the top,

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Speaker 1: which would all be the same keyboard. Just change you

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Speaker 1: just change your time. I'm just plus yeah, just active

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Speaker 1: down and so but you know, it was a bit

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Speaker 1: but I think it was a three active. But if

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Speaker 1: I was feeling particularly uninspired, and it was just you know,

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Speaker 1: there's so many ways of arriving and leaving and so

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Speaker 1: specific order for a song, or would you record doing

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Speaker 1: a lot of that and then chop it up. I'd

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Speaker 1: record a lot of that, and then I'd sample myself basically,

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Speaker 1: And that's what happened with as soon as you hear it,

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Speaker 1: you're like that, and I remember you being like that.

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Speaker 1: So that's where, that's where we want. It's amazing. It's

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Speaker 1: just amazing to see you do that. And and I'm

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Speaker 1: glad that you've come to recognize that what you do

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Speaker 1: as a that work, it's not what other people do,

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Speaker 1: so that you can continue to do it. You know,

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Speaker 1: I feel like the more you try to do what

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Speaker 1: anyone else does, the less interesting I've done. I've been there, man,

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Speaker 1: I've been there. I've I've you know, for the years

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Speaker 1: after the color and anything I was trying to chase

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Speaker 1: the the genius of other people, you know, people I've

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Speaker 1: worked with, people who've influenced me, people who have seemed

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Speaker 1: to be you know, just based on my own down

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Speaker 1: opinion on myself, were just so much high, you know,

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Speaker 1: at a higher level of something that I couldn't do

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Speaker 1: or whatever. I think I just had to get over

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Speaker 1: that and get through it. And I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: by the time i'd done assume form, i'd kind of

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Speaker 1: assume form. The reason I decided to make that record

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Speaker 1: wasn't because I needed to make a record. It was

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Speaker 1: because I needed to get away from the idea that

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Speaker 1: I had to write music in a way other than

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Speaker 1: under my own. And I finally got sick of waiting

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Speaker 1: for other people, sick of I was working on other

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Speaker 1: projects and other things, and people were wasting my time.

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Speaker 1: And I realized they had a moment of realization. I'm me,

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Speaker 1: I can do whatever the fuck I want. Why am

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Speaker 1: I waiting? Why am I idolizing other people? Why I

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Speaker 1: can already do the thing, you know, do the thing

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Speaker 1: that I love, like, why torture myself like that? And

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Speaker 1: because you know, working with other artists is amazing, but

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Speaker 1: some you know, I think at a formative time in

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Speaker 1: my career, put too much weight on what some other

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Speaker 1: people thought and too much kind of involvement in them.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know why I expected from them. Maybe

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Speaker 1: I expected too much or whatever, but I think it

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Speaker 1: was a reflection on where I was at the time,

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Speaker 1: but it ended up throwing me really severely off course musically,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like I'm finding assumed form and where

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Speaker 1: I'm at now has been me finding my feet and

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Speaker 1: kind of going, fuck everyone else. I'm sure about this,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure of myself and I I'm comfortable in

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Speaker 1: my skin musically, and the amount of voices that are

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Speaker 1: going on in the back of my head when I'm

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Speaker 1: making music now, I could have not been able to

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Speaker 1: count them before. I mean, it was, it was intense,

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Speaker 1: and it ruined my process for a while, but now

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Speaker 1: is it feels relatively quiet in there. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's a big part of why I made this before EP,

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Speaker 1: because I wasn't thinking about, oh am I going to

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Speaker 1: be judged if I sing over dance music or you know,

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Speaker 1: if I combine those two worlds, and I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to be you know, in my thinking part of it

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Speaker 1: as well. There could be some people who think this

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Speaker 1: is a bastardization of dance music, or it's a bastardization

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Speaker 1: of songwriting, or it's it's you know, are the songs

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Speaker 1: truck is perfect? But I don't know. The point is

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Speaker 1: songs like I keep calling on this EP are kind

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Speaker 1: of like the modern in a way. That's my modern

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Speaker 1: dance music. Never lend share. It's a it's a weird structure,

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Speaker 1: but it hits my it hits a part of me,

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Speaker 1: and it it seems somehow solid, even though it seems

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Speaker 1: like it's just about being held together. Honestly, Breck has

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Speaker 1: been such an fucking journey to that feeling, and it's

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Speaker 1: nice to be able to say that to you. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Let's listen to that song. We'll be

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Speaker 1: back with more of James Blake's conversation with Rick Rubin

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Speaker 1: after a quick break. We're back with Rick Rubin and

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Speaker 1: James Blake. Was the household you grew up in musical Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean my dad is a musician and he was

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Speaker 1: always playing music, and you know, my mum and him,

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Speaker 1: it was, you know, singing in the car and doing

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Speaker 1: three part harmonies in the car. Are on the way

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Speaker 1: to like going on holiday and stuff like that. So

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Speaker 1: because we would drive to holiday, I mean we'd go

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Speaker 1: on holiday too, you know, Wales or the beach, and

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Speaker 1: I want to say the beach. It's really just a

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Speaker 1: kind of a gallery of rocks in England, but that's

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Speaker 1: what we call the beach. So we're on the way down,

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Speaker 1: we'd go camping in Pembrokeshire or something. I actually saw

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Speaker 1: a bunch of like UFOs. There's the thing called the

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Speaker 1: Pembrokeshire Triangle, which is a bit like the Bermuda Triangle

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Speaker 1: except a lot less cool. And we went there quite

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Speaker 1: a bit and we'd go camping and I sort of

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Speaker 1: learned how to sing really in a way through doing that,

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Speaker 1: I learned how to harmonize, especially how to slot in

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Speaker 1: between two other notes, or how to you know, how

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Speaker 1: to follow a top line or how you know. Those

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Speaker 1: things really came from my parents. What would be the

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Speaker 1: songs that he would sing in the car? God, I can't,

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Speaker 1: I can't remember. Isn't she loved? I can't really, I

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Speaker 1: can't remember it. Maybe Stevie Wonder songs or singing on

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Speaker 1: the dock of the bay, or some Crosby stills, and

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Speaker 1: Nash songs. I remember that our house was one that

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Speaker 1: we used to sing a lot. And would those be

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Speaker 1: the songs that would be playing in your house like

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Speaker 1: that your parents? Yea, and so they'd sing it in

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Speaker 1: the car on the way down or maybe it would

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Speaker 1: be but happy Birthday that every year to this day,

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Speaker 1: my parents will call me and sing a Happy birthday

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Speaker 1: in harmony beautiful like It's just what they do. And

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Speaker 1: the only drawback is that they can't have a third

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Speaker 1: because otherwise I'd be singing happy birthdays myself. But that

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Speaker 1: is a very cute thing that they do. And you

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Speaker 1: said you started playing piano when you were six? Did

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Speaker 1: you did you take formal lessons? I did lessons from Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Around that age. My dad asked me if I wanted

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Speaker 1: to play a guitar or piano or anything, and I said,

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Speaker 1: I'll playing guitar and he was like, well I can

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Speaker 1: get I can teach you that, So pick something else.

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Speaker 1: And I started piano lessons and I never really look back.

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Speaker 1: And also I don't think me and my dad were

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Speaker 1: compatible as a student teacher relationship. I think we were

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Speaker 1: better as just you know, father son. So and did

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Speaker 1: you learn classical music. Yeah, I did all the grade

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Speaker 1: you know, I did grade eight or whatever, and I

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Speaker 1: could have carried on and done my diploma and etc.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't. I just sort of ended with that

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Speaker 1: and said said goodbye to the academic side of music

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Speaker 1: because I just wasn't that interested. But it did give

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Speaker 1: me a great backbone. But you know, and I wasn't

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Speaker 1: very good sight reader. So if you don't develop sit

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Speaker 1: reading very well, then it's hard to want to approach

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Speaker 1: a new piece of classical music with sheet music because

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Speaker 1: the journey to getting to just playing some fucking notes

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Speaker 1: is so hard if you're not good at that that

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Speaker 1: I gave up and I just wanted to improvise. And

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Speaker 1: the whole time I'd just been learning to improvise myself.

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Speaker 1: So it would go, James, do your practice, I go

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Speaker 1: downstair play for you know, I try and learn this

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Speaker 1: piece for I don't know, fifteen minutes and I give up,

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Speaker 1: and then I just improvise for forty five minutes. And

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Speaker 1: so they could see that I was just way more

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Speaker 1: inclined and way more excited about improvising. And that's kind

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Speaker 1: of what I've based my career on, really, is improvising

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Speaker 1: I've always just improvised and then edited. Would you always

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Speaker 1: improvise solo? Or might you put on a piece of

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Speaker 1: music and play along and improvise? There was this funny,

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Speaker 1: embarrassing moment I was always I was playing with these

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Speaker 1: kids up the street. We were playing tennis regularly, and

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Speaker 1: I became friends with one of them, and we lived

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Speaker 1: four doors down from them, and so I could see

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Speaker 1: their garden because we live in these like semi detached

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Speaker 1: whatever houses and terraced houses in England. So from my

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Speaker 1: bedroom I could see over the fences and he was

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Speaker 1: in his garden. I remember I was playing. I would

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Speaker 1: play records every night, so I'd come home from school

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Speaker 1: and I just set up, I put a CD on

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Speaker 1: and I just played piano and sing to the records

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Speaker 1: with a mic. This was by the time I was

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Speaker 1: like fourteen fifteen, and I think I was playing like

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Speaker 1: I was playing records that kids my age thought were

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Speaker 1: really sad, that as in, were really on completely. Uncle.

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Speaker 1: What's the songs? Amazing song, Whitney Houston song, children a

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Speaker 1: Future two some. We let them do that song. Unbelievable song.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, so I'm just I'm belting this song at

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Speaker 1: the top of my voice, playing like an electronic like

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Speaker 1: eighties roads type sound like MIDI roads, and then I

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Speaker 1: hear a bunch of kids laughing and they're going I

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Speaker 1: can't remember what they were saying, but they were basically

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Speaker 1: heckling me from four like houses away. And it was

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Speaker 1: honestly one of the most embarrassing moments of my whole

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Speaker 1: like one of the more embarrassing moments, because I remember

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Speaker 1: that was my whole friend one of my whole friendship

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Speaker 1: groups were there, and I was like crippled after that

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00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,960
Speaker 1: because I was just like this other people see this

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Speaker 1: as a as a really effeminate and you know, like

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Speaker 1: effeminate and a sad, lonely thing to do. They look

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Speaker 1: at me as in some way kind of a weird,

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Speaker 1: weirdough for like just wanting to do this, and also

346
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:38,160
Speaker 1: potentially there were homophobic undertones to like their abuse the heckling.

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Speaker 1: I was just like, this is this is crazy, this

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Speaker 1: is the thing I love doing. How can I be

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Speaker 1: firstly a man and also like them? That doesn't make sense,

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Speaker 1: you know, I can't be I can't be myself and

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Speaker 1: like them, so I must be must be different and

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Speaker 1: I and this I need to I need to keep

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Speaker 1: away from other people. I need to make sure that

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Speaker 1: no one sees me or hears me doing this. So

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00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,320
Speaker 1: it was kind of funny in a way, like when

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Speaker 1: I look back on it, it's kind of a funny story.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, at the time it didn't

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Speaker 1: feel funny. It felt like really shameful because at the time,

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Speaker 1: like I said, there was so much toxic masculinity. You know,

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Speaker 1: it was all about like being sporty and being you know,

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Speaker 1: and I was just this kind of kid. He wanted

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Speaker 1: to sing to Whitney Houston songs in my bedroom and

363
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 1: like Mariah Carey, I was like obsessed with music box,

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00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 1: you know, all these singers. It was super expressive. And

365
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 1: there's me you know, with the I mean, you know,

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00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 1: super like Ross Geller, like with my little keyboard and

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Speaker 1: my mic and like trying to and so I just,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think it started off that weird moment.

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Speaker 1: Weirdly probably stopped me from wanting to show my musical

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Speaker 1: ability to anyone, and so I didn't really play. I

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Speaker 1: remember being you know, I'd go into practice rooms and

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Speaker 1: I'm just not I'd not let anyone come and hear me.

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Speaker 1: I would just go in and I'd make sure no

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00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 1: one was around, and I'd go in on my own

375
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 1: after school, and I'd make sure no one could hear

376
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 1: me in, and I would just express I'll just play

377
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 1: your parents. No, not a lot. I mean I did

378
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 1: a bit, but not a lot. I would play with

379
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Speaker 1: them in the other room, and they would be only

380
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 1: ones that were sort of allowed to hear me, even

381
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Speaker 1: from the other room. But I was very ashamed, I

382
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,120
Speaker 1: think looking back, I mean, I've not really ever talked

383
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,919
Speaker 1: about this, but I'm very ashamed of playing because I

384
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:38,959
Speaker 1: felt that it undermined my sort of ability to interface

385
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 1: with other kids. Really weird to think that it should

386
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: be something I would have felt ashamed of when I

387
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 1: would imagine you'd have thought that it would have been

388
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 1: something that people thought was cool, right, singing and playing.

389
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 1: I don't know I would think that, but that's just

390
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: not how people. People reacted. Yeah, I mean, anything that

391
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 1: makes you different is any excuse too, To be honest,

392
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 1: they probably thought I was just annoying, which I was,

393
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,199
Speaker 1: and the you know, the the way of actually articulating

394
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: that was sad for playing the songs. But actually, yeah,

395
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 1: I think it was a why and so maybe that

396
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 1: even followed me into not feeling fully confident to put

397
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,560
Speaker 1: my music, put my voice in my music. I don't know.

398
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: I mean there's lots of embarrassing moments like that that

399
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 1: would have led to that. So it wasn't just that.

400
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,720
Speaker 1: But you know, if you ever, if you ever turbulent childhood,

401
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 1: you can really spend at least up until other a's

402
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 1: to to unpack what happened and why you feel shame

403
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 1: around certain things and why you know, And it was

404
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,360
Speaker 1: definitely this whole, you know, these four albums have been

405
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: me unpacking everything in real time and showing my workings. Really,

406
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 1: do you remember the first time you sang in front

407
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: of people on purpose? Yeah? I was terrified, but I

408
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: remember that this girl really liked it and said and

409
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 1: told her friend that she fancied me. How old were

410
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 1: you at the time, I was about fourteen. Yeah, that

411
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 1: was the first time I thought this is this is okay? Now,

412
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: yeah this is cool. When did you know that you

413
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 1: were going to do this for your life, like this

414
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 1: was going to be the focus of your life. I

415
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 1: think I always thought it would be pretty much. I

416
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: didn't ever think I would get a different job. I mean,

417
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: even when you were ashamed of it and doing it

418
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 1: in your boy yourself. Yeah, you felt like this is

419
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 1: what I'm going because I thought, well, they're not ashamed.

420
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,880
Speaker 1: All these artists are making all this music, so someone's

421
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: not ashamed of it. Yes, I'm ashamed of it. Yes,

422
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 1: And as soon as I'm out of this fucking shitthole,

423
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: yes that I'm I was born in, and that all

424
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 1: these people are judging me in, yes, I'm fucking out

425
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 1: of here, and I'm going to show everyone that this

426
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 1: isn't shameful and that this is worthwhile and that I

427
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,880
Speaker 1: was actually pretty good at it, and so fuck you all.

428
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 1: You know, I'm going to go into this room here

429
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 1: where no one is and work on that silently until

430
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 1: I get the opportunity to get out of it. Amazing,

431
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: beautiful story. Thanks. I definitely spent too long, though, because

432
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 1: you know, after after you want to prove yourself, it's

433
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: like that feeling doesn't doesn't go away naturally, So long

434
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 1: after you need to prove yourself, you're still trying to

435
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 1: prove yourself. Yeah, And I think that is that's what

436
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: you're chipping at. That that's the thing I've been chipping

437
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 1: away at is that that need to prove that I

438
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 1: can do something. I mean, I've proven that, you know,

439
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: I don't need to anymore, while you don't need to

440
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: do that anymore. If it's driving you're making great music. Yeah,

441
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,120
Speaker 1: it's a it's worth the price, yeah in a way,

442
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: in a way. Yeah, I've debated that with myself over

443
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: the years of you know, where it was was the

444
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: music worth the pain? And there have been times when

445
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 1: I said no, and I would have taken it all

446
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 1: back fully, Yeah, yeah, because I think you know, until

447
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: you develop who you are outside of music, and you

448
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 1: develop your sort of raised on there for outside of it,

449
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 1: then it can feel that when it's taken away, it

450
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 1: removes your purpose as a human beings. So therefore you

451
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: might as well not be here. And that's that's where

452
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,639
Speaker 1: I got to during the Color and Anything almost you know,

453
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: before I came here, that's where I was because I thought, well,

454
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:31,960
Speaker 1: if I can't do this, then what can I do?

455
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: What's the point in me being here? There's no point,

456
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 1: which is obviously i'm very unhealthy thought, but it's but

457
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: it was because I hadn't worked on any of my

458
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 1: relationships or my friendships or or myself. I'd only worked

459
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,120
Speaker 1: on music at that point, so it's like, well, if

460
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 1: this thing isn't working and I've got block on this,

461
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: then I'm fucked. And I was fucked. And so from

462
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 1: the point of being fucked, it was a long road

463
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: to unfucking myself. As Russell Brown would put it, how

464
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: do you describe the difference from the from the first

465
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: album to the second album? From the first of the second, well,

466
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: the second had more pressure on it by quite a

467
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: long stretch. And I don't you know, I don't shy

468
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:23,639
Speaker 1: away from pressure, but the songs time you had to

469
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,879
Speaker 1: deal with it, though. Really that was the first so

470
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: I kind of didn't really understand it in a way.

471
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: I wasn't really I didn't really feel afraid because I

472
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: was like, well, this has never happened to me before,

473
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: so this is all brand new anyway, so I might

474
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 1: as well just react to what's happening. I'm not. I

475
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 1: wasn't consumed yet with what people thought of me, because

476
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: I was already I was doing well and I thought, well,

477
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,440
Speaker 1: I'll just continue doing that right and people would like

478
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 1: it again. So I did. And but you know that

479
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 1: the song for that record, I Retrograde didn't really come

480
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 1: to me until probably the second from last thing I

481
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: wrote in a like three year period. It actually was

482
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: touch and go really, because if that song hadn't been

483
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: on the record, I don't think people did bore it.

484
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 1: You know, it was it was by far and away

485
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: the standout song in terms of people's I think people

486
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: bought it because they liked the first album, but then

487
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: Ritrograd was the one that they talked about, right, and

488
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: had had that I'll been on there, I think it

489
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 1: would have been harder to convince people that I'd evolved

490
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: and though I was getting better at my craft, you know,

491
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: because I think the rest of it is fairly I mean,

492
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: it's more put together than the first one, but it's like,

493
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: I think some of that album is caught in a

494
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 1: middle ground between complete collage and song. So you know,

495
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: it needed that song with a real backbone, even though

496
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: it's not a conventional structure. It needed that song with

497
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: a real backbone to pop out and grab people. So

498
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: but yeah, I think, you know that's by that time,

499
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: I'd been in my first relationship as well, which changed things,

500
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,959
Speaker 1: and I had more to write about. I wasn't just

501
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: writing about being a lonely virgin anymore, and you know

502
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: there was some level of account accountability from that as well,

503
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: you know, like just starting to realize that I actually

504
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: affect other people and they affect me. Yeah, I would

505
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: say even even the songs rooted in collage are I

506
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: think it's such a big part of what you do

507
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: that a good collage from you is every bit as

508
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: compelling as someone else's good song. Oh, that's nice to hear. Yeah,

509
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: I think it's it's it's it's really, I think that's

510
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: your your mastery is of that. Well, I definitely I

511
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: would I'd say I got into the habit of thinking

512
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: of it as weaker and so it's nice to hear

513
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: say that. I think it might be your superpower. Well,

514
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: I think it's the superpower I didn't want. Yeah, I

515
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: think it's you know, it's it's it's I think that

516
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,080
Speaker 1: if it is that, I think that's the kid for

517
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: a lot of people. I think we're assigned. Yeah, it's like,

518
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: give me invisibility. I don't want the ability to make

519
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: a collage. But I'd say two years ago, if I

520
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: could have chosen, I would have taken strong pop songwriting

521
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 1: as as a power over what I have. Yes, and

522
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you didn't get that choice. Yeah, I

523
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: mean too. And actually now i'd say I'm happy with

524
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: what I have, you know, I'd say that I'm I'm

525
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: excited to see what that yields in the future, because

526
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: I think it's nice to think that you can do

527
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: something after all these years, to look look at what

528
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: you do and go, oh no, it's it's naturally evolved

529
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: over all this time. And if I hadn't have been me,

530
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: then it would have never got off the ground. Maybe

531
00:30:58,240 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: none of it would have got off the ground. And

532
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: it's like finding money down the back of the sofa.

533
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, oh, I still got that. You know,

534
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: I've found this ability that I've got to do this

535
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: thing that is actually kind of unusual. We'll be right

536
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 1: back with more from James Blake. We're back with James

537
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: Blake talking to Rick Rubin about moving to LA full

538
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: time and also about putting his live show together with

539
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 1: friends and bandmates Rab mccandrews and Ben Asset. Are you

540
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: living out here full time now? I am? Yeah. You know,

541
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: it's funny since I since I came to sharing with LA,

542
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: I didn't leave really. I flew over here like I

543
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: was in such a bad way, and I remember, you know,

544
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: telling you about a lot of that stuff. And when

545
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: I was in England, I think I just had this

546
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: idea that I was just going to stay there, and

547
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: you know, it's very English of me, but just to

548
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: kind of you know, stay and suffer. Yeah, and I

549
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: Jemina sort of put me on a plane basically, and

550
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: because she was already going and I was like, yeah,

551
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: I'll come with you. And but she'd been in La

552
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: and I was staying in England and just getting stuck essentially,

553
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: and then so and then she brought me over and

554
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: the first thing I did was come here pretty much,

555
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: and she came to stay with me, and we basically

556
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: fell in love here. So that moment, those like four

557
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: months were like, you know, for us, kind of like

558
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: a summer holiday thing, and you know, it was it

559
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 1: was up and down. But ultimately we may not have

560
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: had that time again because you know, after I left Shangola,

561
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 1: she ended up getting really busy and I got really busy,

562
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: and so that it was really formative being here and

563
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: I and I didn't pack much stuff. I just came

564
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: here and then I was like, I'm never I realized

565
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: I'm not going back. It was a very It was

566
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: a moment of real clarity as I am, I don't

567
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: know if I'm ever going to live there again. Yeah,

568
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: it's interesting. I want to just fly my stuff over,

569
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: like I don't even want to go back to interesting.

570
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 1: It's interesting when it hits you. Yeah, the reality of

571
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: oh I'm not going back. Yeah. I can remember you

572
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: talked about ups and downs, and I can remember there

573
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: was one time when there was something going on relationship

574
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: wise that was heavy, and we watched that video about

575
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: non balant communication. I remember it really reached you. It

576
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 1: was huge. That moment was huge, and I wanted to

577
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: thank you actually in person because because I haven't really

578
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: you know that things have gone in so many different

579
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: directions for the both of us, but we haven't really

580
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: seen each other since those sessions. But I wanted to

581
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: thank you because that moment was instrumental in our relationship,

582
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: but also just in general for me. It was the

583
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: Marshall Rosenberg non violet communication thing and learning after a

584
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: lifetime of basically just accusatory language, you know, of just

585
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: saying well, if I feel this way, then it must

586
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: be you know, you did this and you did that,

587
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: and that's why I feel like this and actually to

588
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: be able to do away with that kind of language

589
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: and speak from a place of feeling and non accusatory language.

590
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,279
Speaker 1: I recommend that now to everyone I come across who

591
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: was in a relationship or just even who wants to

592
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: change the way they work with the world. It's it's massive.

593
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: It like change the way I produce as well, like

594
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: the way I am makes you more approachable. You can

595
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: roll with the punch, is much easier, things tend not

596
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: to go sour. Relationships that you know with people who

597
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,240
Speaker 1: are more like that are much more likely to work

598
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: because you can come to a middle ground. And so

599
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, not only did it fix that particular

600
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: problem at the time in my ship, but also just

601
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 1: had so many knock on effects. So thank you. I've

602
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,720
Speaker 1: done a lot of growing up, and I think actually,

603
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 1: like the kind of in anything. The record we worked

604
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:17,840
Speaker 1: on together was so much a coming of age record. Really,

605
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 1: I don't know if coming of age means a certain age,

606
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: but for me that was, you know, I was twenty

607
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: six or twenty five, and you know, coming into the

608
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: what they call the Satin Was it The Satin Returns

609
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:34,759
Speaker 1: or whatever? And yeah it was. I mean that is

610
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: that is a complex album. It's a it's a dense

611
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: kind of forest in my mind when I when I

612
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: look back at that music, I do a little bit

613
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,280
Speaker 1: feel sorry for you for having had to sit while

614
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: I you know, I mean, if you ever watched The

615
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: Crystal Maze. No, we had this game show in the

616
00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: UK where basically there's a team of people, like four

617
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: of them or multiple of them are outside the maze,

618
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 1: basically being able to communicate with the person that is

619
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: in the maze. And so there's one person going through

620
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 1: the maze, but they don't see everyone else sees it

621
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: from the bird's eye view and they only see it

622
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: from inside the maze. So they're like no, no no, no,

623
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: go left, go left. I feel like that's what that

624
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: record was. I feel like you were You were the

625
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: people outside the maze, and I was in the maze

626
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: trying to get the fuck out of it, making all

627
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: the wrong turns. But I think, you know, I did

628
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: get out of it in the end. But it's like,

629
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: as a producer, how do you see that kind of situation?

630
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: Is it a challenge? Is it a personal challenge. Is

631
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: it a musical challenge or is it it's just it's

632
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: just part and parcel of the job. It's part of

633
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: the job. Is it's as much about having an instinct

634
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 1: about the music as as an instinct of how to

635
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: deal with the emotions going on in the room and

636
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: people and where people are in their lives. Yeah, and

637
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: it's so different, and you'd think it has something to

638
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: do with each, but it really doesn't, right, And I've

639
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: seen at both ends of the spectrum. I've seen very

640
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 1: young artists who are attached to some ideas that are

641
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: not helpful to them and are unwilling to let go

642
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: of them because they because of in their limited view,

643
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:15,960
Speaker 1: they think that that thing that they're not willing to

644
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: let go of is the reason they've gotten as far

645
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: as they've gotten. That's one version. And then I've seen,

646
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,240
Speaker 1: you know, I've worked with you know, seventy year old

647
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: greatest artists in the world, and they still seem lost.

648
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 1: It's unbelieving, you know, it's unbelievable at both ends. But

649
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: then there and then you you meet people who are

650
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 1: just completely comfortable with themselves, comfortable with the process. There's

651
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 1: no rules, you know, it really is different every everyone,

652
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: and you must get it is. I mean you get

653
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 1: to work with a lot of people and you see

654
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: it's it's completely different every time. It is. And I

655
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: noticed that when when as a producer, I think with

656
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 1: my producer hats on, coming to work at shang Laren

657
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: and working with you was huge for learning how to

658
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: adapt to those situations because I'd put someone in that

659
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: situation myself, you know, like I can look back on

660
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: moments of coming into the studio and just not wanting

661
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: to work. You know, we were here for months, so

662
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: there were days when I just couldn't work. I was

663
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: just catatonic, almost like I could barely even speak. Most

664
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: people can hide that if they're only going to the

665
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: studio for like a day or two, a few sessions

666
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 1: in a week. But when you're going through something and

667
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: you're just going in every day and you're staying at

668
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: the studio, then you can't really hide it as well.

669
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 1: It's like being in Big Brother or something like a

670
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: reality TV shows, like you can hold it up for

671
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: hold up the facade for a while, but at some

672
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: point everybody's seeing you every day, like all the engineers,

673
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: the assistant, the you know, you like at some point

674
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: you break. I think what it showed me was how

675
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: to accommodate somebody's their actual real life and the fact

676
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 1: that their real life is what they're drawing from, and

677
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,760
Speaker 1: to not take that for granted. It's actually really heavy

678
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: some of the ship people go through to actually what

679
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: they put into this music, and so you can't always

680
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 1: think about music basically, and then it can't always only

681
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: be about the music, because ultimately, if you don't have

682
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: any ability to listen to them about the other stuff,

683
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: then why are you really as a producer. There's also

684
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 1: the I imagine it's different for you as I think

685
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 1: of you primarily as an artist who as a producer, right,

686
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: But maybe that's just because that's the way I came

687
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: in contact with you as an artist first. Now I

688
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 1: think you're probably right. Yeah, I don't imagine that adds

689
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 1: another layer of complexity to it, because you always would

690
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: know what you would do as an artist, but what

691
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 1: you would do as an artist might not always be

692
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: what's best for them as an artist. So being the

693
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 1: producer for them is different than being an artist collaborating

694
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: with them as another Yeah, to be able to have

695
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: some distance and to maintain that clarity and objectivity is

696
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: much easier when you're not thinking about your you know

697
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 1: this outpouring all the time. And and actually a little

698
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: bit like you know when people say that once they're

699
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: in a safe relationship, all of the all their stuff

700
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 1: rises to the top. When you're starting like an album

701
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 1: campaign or sorry, an album recording, and you don't know

702
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: where it's going to go, and you're just you know,

703
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: you're trying to find or at least I'm trying to

704
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: find the real feelings and the and the you know

705
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: what it is. I want to say, you're likely to

706
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 1: stumble on some land mines emotionally because they're there, and

707
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: it part of the process of trying to heal yourself

708
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: for musicians in some way, at least temporary, really is

709
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 1: to step on them. So you know, I think I

710
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 1: stepped on a few while I was here. That's why

711
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 1: it's so therapeutic. The process of making music is so healing,

712
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: both for the person making the music and for the listener. Yeah,

713
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: you know, there's some there's something inherent in it. Even

714
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: when someone's singing about something terribly painful and there's no

715
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 1: resolution in the song that has a healing feeling for

716
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 1: someone who's also feeling that because you resonate on a

717
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: human level, I'm not alone, you know, this is a

718
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: real Yeah, we're in this together, even though we don't

719
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 1: know each other. Yeah, that's right. I actually think that

720
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 1: for me, the allure of producing probably grew greater after

721
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: I worked with you, just because I saw that there

722
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: was a way of stepping back, you know. I think

723
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: being so in it all the time, just in the

724
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:57,839
Speaker 1: emotional trenches, it's just it's hard and and it takes

725
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: its hell in a way, it's healing, but then also

726
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 1: takes a toll, and the people around you are constantly

727
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 1: subjected to it. You're not the same basically, and it

728
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: is ultimately a fairly self absorbed thing. So I think

729
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:18,320
Speaker 1: my fear as someone who you know, got into music.

730
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I was touring by the time I was

731
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: twenty one, you know, and like I was starting to DJ,

732
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: starting to play live, and everything became about me. And

733
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: I'm the solo artist. I'm the front man, I'm the

734
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: you know, the person who does the interviews. I'm what

735
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: people are trying to get answers out of. I think

736
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: at a certain point when I realized that that was

737
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: having a negative effect on people around me. I almost

738
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 1: became allergic to the idea of going to that place

739
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 1: where everything's about me again. And so the idea of

740
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 1: going to a studio and having everybody, like, you know,

741
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,879
Speaker 1: having people getting the food, getting the you know, going

742
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: to like even just turning knobs for me, but on

743
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: the desk, you know, or people asking me, you know,

744
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on how this is good? You know,

745
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:15,399
Speaker 1: this album being about my emotions in some way felt selfish,

746
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: self indulgent. Self indulgent, yeah, and selfish because ultimately, you know,

747
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: people around me lives would change if I went and

748
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: just stayed and I stayed in the sorry a studio

749
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: for a month or maybe let some of my responsibilities

750
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: go a little bit, because I was so absorbed in

751
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 1: the music. And so I think I'm becoming a bit

752
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,879
Speaker 1: afraid of that. And I think producing was a way

753
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 1: to transition out of that thing and ultimately be able

754
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: to just go home, clock out. And I noticed that

755
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 1: when I was here. One of the things that always

756
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: struck me as Initially it struck me as odd, but

757
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: then I realized was fucking great is that you would

758
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: always clock out at like seven o'clock, so we'd work

759
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,360
Speaker 1: from twelve to seven, and then you'd be out and

760
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 1: you'd be having dinner with your wife. I always thought,

761
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 1: but what if something amazing happens after seven o'clock, you know?

762
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: And but that's me being so absorbed in it that

763
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: I think that that's more amazing than having dinner. It's not,

764
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 1: you know. And now I realize that it's not more amazing. Firstly,

765
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: it's not more amazing than having dinner. Secondly, it's important

766
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,719
Speaker 1: to have your boundaries, and it's just so much hard

767
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: to have your boundaries when it's your music. Let me

768
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 1: let me say two things about that, or things to

769
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 1: think about about that. The first one is it's different

770
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 1: for an artist who does a deep dive into a

771
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,720
Speaker 1: window of time making an album. Let's say it's several

772
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 1: months of total dedication to nothing else. So you've done

773
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 1: that four times over the course of your life. I

774
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: do that every day, all the time, for the last

775
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 1: thirty something years, you know, hundreds of times. So for me,

776
00:44:56,400 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: it's different because if there's no breaks on a day basis,

777
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: and there's no breaks in my life ever at all,

778
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: and I do feel like and I learned this the

779
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: hard way is that I probably spent twenty five years

780
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 1: of my life in dark rooms with no windows, often

781
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: past the point of productivity. Yes, out of some other

782
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: other thought of thinking I was going to miss something,

783
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,319
Speaker 1: which I don't believe I did considering the fact that

784
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 1: if work is still going on and something good happens,

785
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: I get to hear it the next day when I

786
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: come in. Either way. Yeah, the other part of it

787
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 1: is that that's in terms of the personal balance side,

788
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: then in terms of the having perspective, being able to

789
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: step away or even better, getting to work on something

790
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: else and then coming back really changes your relationship to it. Yeah,

791
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: you're hearing it closer to the way other people are

792
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: going to hear it. Other people don't get to hear

793
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: it a million times in a row before they even

794
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,959
Speaker 1: decide if it's done or if they like it. Yeah,

795
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,399
Speaker 1: it's another thing I've learned to stop. I don't take

796
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,760
Speaker 1: any mixes out of the studio with me. I never

797
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: listen to a work in progress unless unless there's a

798
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: specific reason to, you know, if there's a decision to

799
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 1: be made, I'll listen, but I don't want to listen

800
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:21,439
Speaker 1: to something over and over and over again and get

801
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 1: used to it, because then I'll think that's how it goes,

802
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: when in reality, if I don't listen to it and

803
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: come back fresh and hear it, I may realize, oh,

804
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: this part that sounded the right length yesterday is too long.

805
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have known that if I kept drilling it

806
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 1: into my head in the way that I liked on

807
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 1: that one day. So there's a real benefit in stepping

808
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: away and coming back and seeing it fresh. There's a

809
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 1: balance to be struck, for sure, if you can maintain

810
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: some sense of normalcy at the same time as in

811
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: your private sort of way being this absolutely not really

812
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 1: for this thing that you're this little kind of sculpture

813
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: you're building in your in your back room. That's kind

814
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 1: of what it feels like. But I but I do

815
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: feel that wherever I am, it always feels like I

816
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: have this secret, you know. I feel like, you know,

817
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 1: I could just be at a party, or like I

818
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 1: could be at the beach or whatever, but in the

819
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: back of my mind, I'm building this this thing at home.

820
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,719
Speaker 1: And in some ways that's a cool feeling, and in

821
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: other ways that's an incredibly kind of isolating feeling because

822
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: no one could see it. Yeah, but it's like when

823
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 1: I first came here, I was like, oh this is

824
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 1: this is like life rehab, like people come here to

825
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: get better whatever it is. You know, everything's white and

826
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 1: green like the grass, and you know there's like more,

827
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 1: there's like exotic wildlife just coming and perching outside just

828
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:52,919
Speaker 1: as you're writing lyrics of the other things you've got

829
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,680
Speaker 1: to produce and collaborate on. What's been the most fun

830
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 1: for you outside of you as an artist? M Well,

831
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 1: Andre three thousand spins to mind, and some of my

832
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 1: work with Stara has been really fun. The most fun

833
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: I mean it was I mean working on four or

834
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 1: four is incredibly gratifying, even though I didn't actually do

835
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,240
Speaker 1: that much. I mean in terms of, you know, musical

836
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: input there really wasn't a huge amount. But it was

837
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 1: being in the room and being a part of a

838
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:27,320
Speaker 1: record being created and being an opinion that was driving

839
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 1: where that record went, one of many, and helping Jay

840
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 1: formulate whatever. Even to just play a small part in

841
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: that was just so fucking fun. And just his process

842
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 1: showed me that there was a different process. You know,

843
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: I could have loads of people being a committee and

844
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:50,799
Speaker 1: and and and take every opinion. What's that quote? Megan

845
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 1: Markles said it in an interview recently. Let let compliments

846
00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 1: and criticisms flow down the same drain. You know, amazing

847
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: ability to do that presence of mind over himself. And

848
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 1: I imagine your voice was probably different than many of

849
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: the voices in the room, which is interesting. Yeah, although

850
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,359
Speaker 1: probably the biggest, like the person I learned the most

851
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: from aside from Jay was No Idea. He probably is

852
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 1: the most truth telling, one of the most truth telling

853
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 1: people I've ever met, just in terms of you know,

854
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 1: he doesn't care what the reaction is to what he's saying.

855
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: He will just deliver the absolute, whole truth. And that

856
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: I think is part of the essence of fourth or

857
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:40,560
Speaker 1: four I think is No Ideas. Next to Jay, the

858
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,879
Speaker 1: biggest influence on that record is No Idea. It's so

859
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 1: helpful when someone will really reflect reality back. Yeah, at

860
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,399
Speaker 1: the cost of potentially of upsetting the person. Absolutely, it's

861
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 1: a difficult road to walk, Yeah, but it's really what's necessary.

862
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: And the reason so many successful artists work over time

863
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 1: tend to diminish is because the voices around them just

864
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: start so true. Nodding, Yes, we know examples of that

865
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 1: happen right now that it's tough to it's tough to

866
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 1: watch when you know you love someone's music, but that

867
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: is the way it is. Takes an immense strength of

868
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: character to allow dissident voices into your session, and mine

869
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,760
Speaker 1: happens to be in my relationship, which is very useful.

870
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 1: You know, someone will just be like, no, I can't,

871
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 1: that's not not hitting, or you know, keeps you grounded, well, yeah,

872
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: and or just the encouragement of your authentic self, you know,

873
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 1: tell me about the coverage you're working on. Well, I've

874
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: done this DANCEFPP and the next thing is that I'm

875
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 1: going to be releasing kind of studio versions of some

876
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,759
Speaker 1: of the covers I released over the year. When I

877
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: say released, I mean I just played them on a

878
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 1: whim on ig live streams and then they became and

879
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 1: then I looked back and go, oh, no, that actually,

880
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 1: you know, I made sort of slightly made that on

881
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,359
Speaker 1: my own, so I'm going to put that on this EP. Nice.

882
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:19,919
Speaker 1: It started as just an opportunity to play music live

883
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: because I didn't have enough songs that I wanted to

884
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:23,680
Speaker 1: play at the piano because you know, a lot of

885
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 1: my music stems from production exercises in a lot of ways,

886
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 1: so taking some of those back to the back to

887
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,840
Speaker 1: the keyboard doesn't always work as a piano song. So

888
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 1: I was like, well, you know, then I put out

889
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: a request to fans saying like, you know, what do

890
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 1: you want me to hear? So we what do you

891
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 1: want me to cover? And got overwhelmed with responses, read

892
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 1: through literally all of them and it was thousands and

893
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 1: genre wise, what were the things that were sent to you? Like,

894
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:52,680
Speaker 1: what was the spectrum? I mean every literally everything, No,

895
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 1: there wasn't. There wasn't you know, in terms of recorded songs,

896
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: there was, There was every genre. But the ones I

897
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:05,279
Speaker 1: ended up picking out were just Nirvana, Stevie one. I

898
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 1: mean they were like the heavy hitters really of songwriting,

899
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 1: because really I was listening for the DNA of the

900
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: songs and could I actually perform them. I think I'm

901
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 1: attracted to the just the same. You know. When I

902
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 1: say same, I mean I'm attracted to pop music. Yeah,

903
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 1: that's what my natural disposition is to listen to the

904
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 1: best pop music. And I think the best pop music

905
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 1: ever written, the Beatles, Nirvana, Billie Eilish, some of those songs,

906
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 1: you know, Stevie Wonder, Frank Ocean, Radiohead Bill with us.

907
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:42,759
Speaker 1: I mean that's like eighteen minute. So talk about how

908
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 1: the live show came together. It's some of the best

909
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 1: live performances I've ever seen I've been thanks to you. Yeah,

910
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:52,600
Speaker 1: thanks for coming to our shows. Yeah, tell me how

911
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 1: did it come? Coming from a DJ background, I would

912
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: not guess that the show that you do would be

913
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: the show that you do, right, because it's not got

914
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 1: any backing tracks or any sinking or anything like that.

915
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:11,319
Speaker 1: A lot of reasons, A lot of reasons. Yeah, it's

916
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:15,239
Speaker 1: very specific what you're what what I've seen is a

917
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 1: very specific thing. I don't know anyone else who does

918
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 1: what you and your group do. Yeah, we started noticing those,

919
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 1: you know, those little SPD pads after we It's like

920
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 1: a little Roland pad that you can hit that you

921
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:31,359
Speaker 1: can put samples on it. Basically like a like an

922
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 1: MPC but for drummers. And I remember we started using

923
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 1: that and then like a couple of years later, I

924
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,200
Speaker 1: started seeing all these other bands with this little drum thing,

925
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: which is a small thing, but that's what that's how

926
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:45,600
Speaker 1: we got away from the computer, is how we got

927
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 1: away from ableton, from from sinking from midi clicks, from

928
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 1: having to be dependent on the pulse of a computer,

929
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: basically because as soon as that happened, we tried it.

930
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 1: But as soon as it happened, Ben just feel the same,

931
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 1: and like none of our music stunded the same, even

932
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 1: though it was different to the records. Like probably what

933
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 1: would have been most faithful, most faithful to records was

934
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 1: playing to a midi click with Ben with the headphones,

935
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 1: and but it didn't feel you know, I'd done a

936
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 1: lot of jamming in bands before. I played in a

937
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: lot of different bands before I started making music, just

938
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:27,359
Speaker 1: like in pubs or at school or cover bands, like

939
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 1: just stuff, you know, like circuit stuff, just learning to

940
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 1: blend in with other musicians, you know, like how to

941
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: not always be sloing, how to sometimes hold it down

942
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 1: keyboard wise, It's like learning lead or rhythm guitar. And

943
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: I knew I wanted to play like a band, and

944
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 1: actually me, Ben and Rob had been in a band

945
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 1: at school, so I knew what it felt like to

946
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:52,760
Speaker 1: play with Ben and Rob where we weren't tied to anything.

947
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,040
Speaker 1: So suddenly it just felt like being in strait jackets,

948
00:54:55,840 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 1: so we just got away. I was militant about anything

949
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 1: with if there were other apps on this thing, it

950
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 1: wasn't allowed on stage. Like if you could email on it,

951
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 1: you're not having it on stage. So it became about okay,

952
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:12,839
Speaker 1: so how do we So we've got the drum pad,

953
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:14,840
Speaker 1: We've got these synths. They're the ones I used on

954
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 1: the record. Rob has this magical ability to fill in

955
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: any gap on a record, so like if we needed

956
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 1: a guitar, that he had it. But if we needed

957
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 1: a chair, if we needed like a sample that had

958
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:30,359
Speaker 1: to come in at a certain point, he could. He's

959
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,800
Speaker 1: just very good at multitasking, so he could do it all.

960
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,000
Speaker 1: If we needed a baseline. He was playing the Moog

961
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:39,480
Speaker 1: Taurus like the Taurus three is amazing. I used that

962
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 1: as the base for Retrograde. So I just brought it

963
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: from home and we used it on tour. So I'll

964
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 1: say it was expensive. You know, I've probably bought six

965
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 1: profits six of every keyboard to have three different rigs

966
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 1: over course of time and replacements. So every piece of

967
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: gear we've got on stage, I've got three or four

968
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:01,240
Speaker 1: or five copies of So took a while to make money,

969
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 1: but you know, once you get going, you know, you're

970
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:08,720
Speaker 1: a self sufficient live act that can't go wrong unless

971
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 1: one of these bits of gear blows up. And even

972
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 1: then I can just transition something else. It can't just

973
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,319
Speaker 1: stop because of a laptop broke. That's the other thing

974
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: is that we would proof like we were completely watertight

975
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 1: when it came to we can react to anything that

976
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:27,800
Speaker 1: goes wrong, but a computer can't. Yes, and there's nothing worse.

977
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 1: And I've been on stage when a laptop fails, and

978
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,440
Speaker 1: there's nothing worse than just three nerds standing over a

979
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 1: laptop screen wondering why the music it's not coming out

980
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 1: like it. It's just the worst image. So I just,

981
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 1: you know, just just went for that. So but yeah,

982
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: like in terms of how we developed the show, it

983
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 1: was like divvying out part. Really it was like, okay,

984
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 1: so who can play what? And we've got three of us,

985
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 1: and if we can't play everything, and then we just

986
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 1: won't play everything, and maybe the sound guy can do

987
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: a couple of delays, but that's about it. So we

988
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: kind of treated it like a dub and in a

989
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 1: way like you know, you've got sort of our sound

990
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 1: guy had to be scientist or King Tubby and we

991
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:10,919
Speaker 1: were the band. Yeah, having seen you live and so

992
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:15,600
Speaker 1: loving the albums. Once I saw you live, it sounded

993
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 1: like the albums were the demos for the live show.

994
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 1: That's what it sounds like, because I remember you saying,

995
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 1: why don't you just record the next album? Because it

996
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 1: takes on this whole other thing that's incredible when it's

997
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 1: played live, just like the added human element, well, it's

998
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:37,479
Speaker 1: all the elements are human rather than just one yes,

999
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 1: but human element of the interaction of rhythm. Yeah, do

1000
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's like a conversation rather

1001
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 1: than yes, completely yes, because yeah, and it has a

1002
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 1: different life to it that it's thrilling. Now, I don't

1003
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 1: know if that's only because I know the computer version

1004
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 1: that hearing it released from the straight jacket, it's so thrilling. Yeah,

1005
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but I know that because I've I've

1006
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 1: never heard I don't think I've ever heard any of

1007
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: the music live before hearing the record, So I don't know,

1008
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 1: but I will say knowing the record seeing it live,

1009
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 1: it's only better. It's funny because a lot of things,

1010
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:25,400
Speaker 1: you know, there are some songs that i'd feel don't

1011
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 1: get better and there are, and we just choose the

1012
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: ones that do. Yeah, And you know a lot of

1013
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 1: bands just have to play the songs that don't translate

1014
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 1: that well live or because they're the big songs, you know,

1015
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 1: or that we've been lucky and also we've just sometimes

1016
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: we just play the ones that don't translate that well,

1017
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 1: and which you know, we've not always made the right

1018
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 1: choices with songs. But I think I feel quite lucky

1019
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: in a way. I would like to record an album

1020
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 1: where it's just me, Ben and Roll playing the songs

1021
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 1: I've written. Obviously, that would be a much longer process

1022
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 1: because you've got to write the song, write the album,

1023
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: then learn it, then play it, and then produce that. Yes,

1024
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 1: And at the time when we were doing Current Anything,

1025
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:03,720
Speaker 1: I remember you suggesting it, I was just like, I

1026
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 1: don't actually have time. I don't think I've got the

1027
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 1: headspace to be able to do that. I don't have

1028
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 1: the time, potentially the money because you know it's not cheap.

1029
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 1: And then also I don't have the I don't have

1030
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 1: any life force left. Like I just was like drained,

1031
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 1: I was dying. I felt like I was dying. Someday,

1032
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: I hope we get to do that, Yeah, And the

1033
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 1: way to do it is to essentially finish the album. Yeah,

1034
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:34,520
Speaker 1: you would do exactly the same thing. What you do,

1035
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 1: know is you finish an album and then you decide

1036
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:37,880
Speaker 1: how you're going to play it live, and then you

1037
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:41,280
Speaker 1: play it live. Right. The only difference will be when

1038
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 1: the record comes out exactly but the process will be

1039
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 1: exactly the same. Everything will be exactly the same. And

1040
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:49,439
Speaker 1: to have that presence of mind to be like that's

1041
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: going to be the way it goes, then yes, But

1042
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 1: I think the time when you're becoming attached to all

1043
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: these demos, all these all these songs, yes, and the

1044
00:59:58,120 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 1: way they're produced and the way they sound and the

1045
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 1: where they hit, and it's like I was just becoming

1046
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 1: so attached to the production of these things I couldn't allow.

1047
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:08,040
Speaker 1: But then the other thing is that I quite enjoyed

1048
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 1: the fresh lease of life it gets when it becomes

1049
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:16,040
Speaker 1: a live adaptation. Absolutely. I quite enjoyed having this thing

1050
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 1: at home that sounds like that, and then being able

1051
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 1: to take this very organic thing on the road and

1052
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:25,280
Speaker 1: its feeling different and it being a surprise to people

1053
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: rather than it just sounding note for note the same

1054
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 1: thing as they've just heard at home. Do you ever

1055
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 1: learn anything about the songs when you play them live?

1056
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:33,880
Speaker 1: Does your relationship to the music change? And I sing

1057
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:37,439
Speaker 1: them differently? And actually I sing the melodies slightly differently live.

1058
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 1: But it's funny how we adapt like sometimes and even

1059
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 1: be an improvisation one night that you get used to

1060
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 1: and then you just start doing it that way and

1061
01:00:45,640 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 1: then you just think that's how it goes. Yeah, it's

1062
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 1: like a lie that I started to believe. And that's great.

1063
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 1: That's kind of fine as well, because ultimately, you know,

1064
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 1: sometimes when you hear a musician sing a song, like

1065
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,400
Speaker 1: a Tommy York or whatever, and you're like, I know

1066
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 1: this record inside out, so when he sings it, it's

1067
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 1: it's going to have to chime in with the exact

1068
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:06,600
Speaker 1: thing that I've got in my mind. And when they

1069
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 1: sing it differently, could be just because they've almost Chinese

1070
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:15,600
Speaker 1: whispered themselves over the course of two tours and now

1071
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 1: it sounds like this. And it's nice to see the

1072
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 1: iterations of these songs over the years and how how

1073
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 1: musicians reidentify with the songs, and you know, it's like

1074
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 1: Joni Mitchell, she actually came to see us at the Troubadour,

1075
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 1: which I probably told you about before, but it was

1076
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:32,919
Speaker 1: an unbelievable moment. I remember her telling me that when

1077
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 1: she originally wrote Case Review, she didn't know how to

1078
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 1: tell the story, even though she had told the story

1079
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 1: in the lyrics and the on the record. But she

1080
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 1: told me that she as she got older, she became

1081
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 1: a better storyteller in her delivery, and she now knew

1082
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:53,520
Speaker 1: the correct emotion behind the things she'd written, almost like

1083
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:56,680
Speaker 1: it would It was disembodied of that in the first inclination,

1084
01:01:56,760 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 1: but as she got older, it was imbued with real

1085
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:07,240
Speaker 1: depth and you know, just emotion. And I think that's

1086
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 1: happened in some ways to some of the songs I've written,

1087
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:13,000
Speaker 1: where I've realized their meaning way after I wrote them,

1088
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 1: maybe because when you're writing them, it's coming more from

1089
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:17,880
Speaker 1: the subconscious, so it's almost like a dream that you

1090
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,760
Speaker 1: can reflect on later, Like the time you wake up

1091
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 1: from a dream, it just seems like surreal, but if

1092
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:26,160
Speaker 1: you look back years later, it's like, oh, that meant

1093
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,440
Speaker 1: I know exactly what that meant exactly. Yeah, there's that.

1094
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:32,760
Speaker 1: And also I think maybe that it's an intellectualization in

1095
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:36,720
Speaker 1: the moment, unless you were just freestyling lyrics straight from

1096
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 1: the subconscious, it would be difficult to not premeditate these lyrics.

1097
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 1: I mean it is they are by definition premeditated. So

1098
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: you know, there's a sense that you've intellectualized what you feel,

1099
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 1: and therefore there is a natural dis embodiment from the

1100
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 1: feeling to the lyric in your explanation of it. It

1101
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: may not always be perfect, and that is our job,

1102
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 1: in a way, is to articulate. But then later on,

1103
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 1: once you know the lyrics, once you they're in you

1104
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 1: and you'll never forget them their muscle memory, then the

1105
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 1: feeling can come through them much easier. So the first

1106
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 1: time I ever sing songs, I'm not reagod at singing them.

1107
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:22,720
Speaker 1: They don't come out feeling integral or authentic. It's when

1108
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 1: I've sung them for a couple of years or even

1109
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:29,720
Speaker 1: ten years, that's when you're like, oh, he's now a conduit.

1110
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:34,440
Speaker 1: Those those lyrics are a conjuit the for what's going on, beautiful,

1111
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for doing this. Yeah, I mean,

1112
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 1: it's absolutely my pleasure I've made. I honestly seeing you

1113
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 1: again and actually in the place where we recorded, covering

1114
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 1: anything I have been having almost I mean, honestly, it's

1115
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 1: so pivotal for me to come back here again, and

1116
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 1: you know where my relationship started, where my album was made,

1117
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:59,840
Speaker 1: where I went through all those changes, and in front

1118
01:03:59,880 --> 01:04:03,040
Speaker 1: of you and with in some ways, with your guidance

1119
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 1: and with what's happened. Since it's so big for me

1120
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:09,000
Speaker 1: to come back here, and it feels so good, and

1121
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:13,280
Speaker 1: I think it's almost felt like therapy. It's just unlocked

1122
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 1: a couple a little like oh yeah, and then and

1123
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 1: then that and then you know, and then I've been

1124
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:21,600
Speaker 1: talking about but this because I've been almost piecing together

1125
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:26,120
Speaker 1: memories and and going, oh, this is really important, beautiful.

1126
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:29,040
Speaker 1: You know, I'm so happy to be on the journey

1127
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 1: with you. Thanks having me on. Yeah, thanks to James

1128
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:37,480
Speaker 1: Blake for sharing so much of his journey and creative

1129
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 1: process with Rick. You can hear all of our favorite

1130
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 1: James Blake songs and I playlist at Broken record podcast

1131
01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 1: dot com, along with the original songs that he covered

1132
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:49,000
Speaker 1: on his new ep and be sure to subscribe to

1133
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:52,520
Speaker 1: our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcasts,

1134
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 1: where we can find extended cuts of our new and

1135
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 1: old episodes Broken Record is produced with help from Lea Rose,

1136
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:03,920
Speaker 1: Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler and his executive produced

1137
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 1: by me a Little Bell. Broken Record is a production

1138
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries and if you like Broken Record, please

1139
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 1: remember to share, rate, and review our show on your podcast.

1140
01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 1: Aff Our theme musics by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond

1141
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:15,720
Speaker 1: Pace