1
00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:03,080
Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

2
00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:05,640
Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let

3
00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:09,320
Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

4
00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,559
Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

5
00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,400
Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

6
00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:18,880
Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

7
00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:20,880
Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

8
00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:22,639
Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

9
00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:24,360
Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

10
00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,440
Speaker 3: Welcome to tack it Up and hear a podcast about things

11
00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,200
Speaker 3: falling apart and putting them back together again. I'm your host, Bio.

12
00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,680
Speaker 3: Long so long ago, in a galaxy far far away,

13
00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,360
Speaker 3: we talked about the collapse of the US Postal Service

14
00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,920
Speaker 3: and the absolute horror show that's been inflicted on postal workers.

15
00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,960
Speaker 3: When we last left our intrepid heroes, things were not great.

16
00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:53,080
Speaker 3: They have continued to be not great. And with us

17
00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:58,080
Speaker 3: to talk about this entire shit show is bad Mouth.

18
00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,240
Speaker 3: He's a letter carrier and for it Worth and Tommy Espinoza,

19
00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,040
Speaker 3: who is a former letter carrier and former union steward

20
00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,560
Speaker 3: for the Post Office Union. That one. Yeah, look, it's

21
00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,280
Speaker 3: like I got up at seven am this morning. It's

22
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,200
Speaker 3: up and that locus. I got up and get it.

23
00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,360
Speaker 3: You're getting tired, Via, But both of you two, welcome

24
00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,240
Speaker 3: to the show, and I'm excited to talk to you both.

25
00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great to be back.

26
00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:21,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having us.

27
00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,119
Speaker 3: Yeah. So all right, let's start in a place where

28
00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,280
Speaker 3: many things start, which is to say, the nineteen seventies,

29
00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,880
Speaker 3: the full crow upon which history pivoted. So one of

30
00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:34,480
Speaker 3: the things that we talked about the listeners sort of

31
00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,039
Speaker 3: the last episode is that post office workers are not

32
00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,679
Speaker 3: legally allowed to go on strike. This is sort of nonsense,

33
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,960
Speaker 3: but it also doesn't mean that it's never happened. Oh,

34
00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:46,600
Speaker 3: by the way, is this we're abut to talk about

35
00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,640
Speaker 3: wildcat strike disclaimers? No one here represents a union there

36
00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,160
Speaker 3: speaking of their individual capacity, et cetera, et cetera. None

37
00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,560
Speaker 3: of this is legal advice. I do I do I

38
00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:56,920
Speaker 3: have any more caveats that we usually say for these things.

39
00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,200
Speaker 3: That's roughly all of them. Yeah, but did you want

40
00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:05,520
Speaker 3: to talk about sort of the last time that things

41
00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,760
Speaker 3: kind of looked like this and what happens.

42
00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:10,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, tell me you want to take that one.

43
00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:15,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, So, going back to the nineteen seventies, the working

44
00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,320
Speaker 5: conditions for letter carriers were so bad that most of

45
00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,560
Speaker 5: them couldn't afford the cost of living. They found themselves

46
00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,639
Speaker 5: in a position where they are working for a quasi

47
00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:31,520
Speaker 5: federal position and are finding themselves on welfare, struggling just

48
00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,720
Speaker 5: to find the means to get to work, oftentimes having

49
00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,560
Speaker 5: to work a second job, if they even have time

50
00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,960
Speaker 5: for a second job. Because the Post Office has and

51
00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,120
Speaker 5: still is very good at skipping around a lot of

52
00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:50,000
Speaker 5: labor laws. I think nowadays people probably work around sixty

53
00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,880
Speaker 5: hour weeks. I think probably at a minimal around fifty

54
00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,960
Speaker 5: hour weeks, especially around the holidays. And it's not just

55
00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:02,040
Speaker 5: letter carriers, this is people inside of the distribution centers,

56
00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,720
Speaker 5: inside of the warehouses. Things were not good. And on

57
00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,760
Speaker 5: top of the actual working conditions themselves, the environment was

58
00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:12,160
Speaker 5: incredibly toxic.

59
00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:14,920
Speaker 1: There was a long history of abuse.

60
00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:21,079
Speaker 5: You're dangling people's livelihood over their head, care like holding

61
00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,600
Speaker 5: a carrot over them, you know, and it really pushed

62
00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:28,360
Speaker 5: people to an edge. You saw a lot of violence

63
00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,520
Speaker 5: on the workroom floor, not only from supervisors but from

64
00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:33,880
Speaker 5: carriers that just snapped.

65
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a time of great disparity.

66
00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, the thing with the Post Office is Tom was

67
00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,960
Speaker 6: mentioned and they dangled a carrot, but there's never any

68
00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,920
Speaker 6: goddamn carrot. It's all stick. It's supposed to be a

69
00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,839
Speaker 6: carrot and stick, it's all stick. There's no carrot there.

70
00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:50,960
Speaker 6: Management in the post office is just trying to get

71
00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,800
Speaker 6: you to move as fast as possible and cut corners, and

72
00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:59,200
Speaker 6: that erodes safety, it erodes service, and it just a toxic, horrible,

73
00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:04,120
Speaker 6: horrible and vironment. And so back in the seventies, before

74
00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,080
Speaker 6: the wildcat strike, it was illegal then, just like it's

75
00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:11,200
Speaker 6: illegal now. The NELC National Association of Letter Carriers Congress

76
00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,960
Speaker 6: called all the shots like we had some collective bargaining rights,

77
00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,039
Speaker 6: but not full collective bargaining rights. But like back then,

78
00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,480
Speaker 6: adjusted for inflation, starting wage was fifty thousand a year roundabout,

79
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,679
Speaker 6: and it topped out at about sixty eight thousand dollars

80
00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,160
Speaker 6: adjusted for inflation, and that took twenty one years to

81
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,880
Speaker 6: get to that point. Yeah, so it's pretty wild and

82
00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:39,440
Speaker 6: like very similar to today. Now starting wage adjusted for

83
00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,440
Speaker 6: inflation is just over forty thousand dollars before taxes. So

84
00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,280
Speaker 6: we're making even less money now than we were before

85
00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:50,200
Speaker 6: that wildcat strike, right, And a couple other real familiar

86
00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:56,600
Speaker 6: things like you know on popular wars, rampant inflation, you know, Yeah,

87
00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,760
Speaker 6: every time you turn on the radio or TV, there's

88
00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,599
Speaker 6: some lunatic politician that you can't stand hearing about.

89
00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, time is a flat circle.

90
00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:10,080
Speaker 6: But Vince Sobrado, who was an organizer out of New

91
00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,120
Speaker 6: York City, the ANOC didn't strike all over the country.

92
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,520
Speaker 4: It was New York and Chicago and San Francisco.

93
00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,479
Speaker 6: It was some major hubs, right, and Vince Sobrado came

94
00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,599
Speaker 6: out of that and we won in that strike one

95
00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,919
Speaker 6: collective bargaining rights. Now, the thing we gave up, and

96
00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:28,880
Speaker 6: it was a trade off, so we have a no

97
00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:30,920
Speaker 6: layoff clause, so they can't lay us off.

98
00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:33,960
Speaker 4: But we gave up the right to strike.

99
00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,960
Speaker 6: Making sure that there wouldn't be another wildcat strike.

100
00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:37,720
Speaker 4: Right.

101
00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:39,720
Speaker 6: So that's kind of why our hands are tied in

102
00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,479
Speaker 6: that sense. Now, if we have an impasse our with

103
00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,280
Speaker 6: our negotiation, and like we get a tentative agreement and

104
00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,919
Speaker 6: we during the ratification process vote that down, now we

105
00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,719
Speaker 6: can either try and go back to the bargaining table

106
00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,719
Speaker 6: or it gets brought in front of an arbiter basically

107
00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:58,279
Speaker 6: an impartial judge, and they'll have a panel. The post

108
00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,960
Speaker 6: Office will pick two, and they then ELC will pick two,

109
00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:04,600
Speaker 6: and then I think there's one impartial that's supposed to

110
00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,800
Speaker 6: be impartial between that. I believe that's how the arbitration

111
00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,280
Speaker 6: process works. We got to prove our case in front

112
00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,800
Speaker 6: of impartial arbiters instead of going on strike.

113
00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so, as we sort of mentioned before, one

114
00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:19,320
Speaker 3: of the things about the post office, it's it's similar

115
00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,599
Speaker 3: if people remember the rail like the rail strike that

116
00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,359
Speaker 3: didn't happen, where there's all of these hoops you have

117
00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:25,839
Speaker 3: to jump, you'd be able to go on strike. And

118
00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,559
Speaker 3: that's because again, like rail workers, postal workers don't operate

119
00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,120
Speaker 3: under the normal sort of National Labor Relations Board like framework.

120
00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,919
Speaker 3: Right now, admittedly there was a very good chance that

121
00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,039
Speaker 3: it like in like seven months, we don't even have that.

122
00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,960
Speaker 3: No one has that anymore. But you know, things are

123
00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,880
Speaker 3: as we are right now. Yeah, it's it's I think

124
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,240
Speaker 3: things are going good, but the as things are going

125
00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,680
Speaker 3: right now, let's get into the current tentative agreement, and

126
00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:52,720
Speaker 3: I guess we should actually we should roll this back

127
00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,320
Speaker 3: a little tiny bit. People who haven't listened to these

128
00:06:55,320 --> 00:07:00,360
Speaker 3: episodes before, can you explain what a tentative agreement is right.

129
00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,480
Speaker 5: So a tentative agreement is effectively the first draft. When

130
00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:08,680
Speaker 5: you are going through and negotiating, you will reach a

131
00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:13,400
Speaker 5: contract where management and the union kind of agree and

132
00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,200
Speaker 5: they put it before their union members. And the idea

133
00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,760
Speaker 5: is that your union members are able to vote whether

134
00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:24,360
Speaker 5: or not this tentative agreement passes. And again, like that

135
00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,080
Speaker 5: nof was saying, if it gets rejected or if it

136
00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,520
Speaker 5: gets turned down, then it goes back to the drawing board,

137
00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,000
Speaker 5: or we get an arbitrator, and it goes through a

138
00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:40,960
Speaker 5: lengthy process. Our specific contract has been under negotiation since

139
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:41,560
Speaker 5: before I.

140
00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,800
Speaker 1: Was in the Post Office.

141
00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,080
Speaker 5: The amount of back pay that they're going to have

142
00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,360
Speaker 5: to pay on some of these races is kind of insane,

143
00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,600
Speaker 5: and I imagine that a lot of people won't see

144
00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:55,440
Speaker 5: it for a long time.

145
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's what a tentative agreement is.

146
00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,920
Speaker 5: A lot of people think that it's a bad thing

147
00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:02,720
Speaker 5: to go back to the drawing board, or a bad

148
00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:05,800
Speaker 5: thing to be negotiate or be put before an arbitrator.

149
00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,880
Speaker 5: I largely think that is a myth. If you think

150
00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:13,120
Speaker 5: about any sort of negotiation, the first the first offer

151
00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,320
Speaker 5: is never the best one. I think a lot of

152
00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:19,480
Speaker 5: people are just afraid that somehow you would end up

153
00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,840
Speaker 5: giving more than you're getting. And I think that's just

154
00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,920
Speaker 5: the way that the rhetoric has gone for unions lately,

155
00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,160
Speaker 5: and I guess I need to adjust that a little bit,

156
00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:34,320
Speaker 5: because the Teamsters, even like the Service Workers' Union, they're

157
00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:38,880
Speaker 5: all really doing well. The Communications Union, we're in a

158
00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,240
Speaker 5: little bit of a different age, but a lot of

159
00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:45,920
Speaker 5: the Post Office is old heads, military veterans, that kind

160
00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,199
Speaker 5: of sort who will just come from a little bit

161
00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,400
Speaker 5: of an earlier time when the labor movement was really

162
00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:53,880
Speaker 5: starting to plant their feet on the ground.

163
00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, a lot of them are still dealing with I

164
00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:01,200
Speaker 6: like most of us are the hangover from the Reagan years. Yeah, right,

165
00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,800
Speaker 6: so they're all terrified of union stuff. Even though they

166
00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,040
Speaker 6: love the union and they're in the union, they're very

167
00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,200
Speaker 6: distrustful of it. And they don't think that we can

168
00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,720
Speaker 6: ask for what we deserve. They think we need to

169
00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,920
Speaker 6: ask for what they think we can get based on

170
00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,079
Speaker 6: the ship that management is saying, because they're again still

171
00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,760
Speaker 6: shell shocked from the Reagan years and all the anti

172
00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:22,520
Speaker 6: labor stuff.

173
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,480
Speaker 3: And that's that's how a profound impact on most of

174
00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,280
Speaker 3: the unions that survived that period and a lot of

175
00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,120
Speaker 3: them didn't, right, which is which is you know, part

176
00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:33,960
Speaker 3: of why you get people who behave like this. But

177
00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:39,240
Speaker 3: on the downside is it means that you get handed

178
00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:43,440
Speaker 3: a lot of deals that absolutely suck. But do you

179
00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,800
Speaker 3: know what else absolutely sucks? It's the products and services

180
00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,319
Speaker 3: that's for this podcast, the probably don't I don't know.

181
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:06,440
Speaker 3: We are back, so let's talk about what the tentative

182
00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:12,079
Speaker 3: agreements that y'all are being asked to sign is right now?

183
00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, so it's been I think we're coming up

184
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,840
Speaker 6: on six hundred days since our last contract expired.

185
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:19,720
Speaker 4: Jeez. Yeah.

186
00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,200
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's people that just want their back pay. So

187
00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,240
Speaker 6: even if the back pay is dog shit, they're desperate

188
00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,640
Speaker 6: because inflation is eight percent across the country in some places, right,

189
00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,439
Speaker 6: and like people are just desperate for that chunk of money.

190
00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,400
Speaker 6: That delaying process feels very very intentional.

191
00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:38,360
Speaker 4: Yeah.

192
00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,360
Speaker 6: So the tenetive agreement comes out around five hundred days

193
00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,440
Speaker 6: after negotiations we're supposed to have started, and there's all

194
00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,079
Speaker 6: sorts of nonsense going on during then, but we're getting

195
00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,719
Speaker 6: promises like it's going to be a historic agreement, We're

196
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,400
Speaker 6: going to get significant raises. We're going to go to

197
00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,720
Speaker 6: an all career workforce, which, by the way, we don't

198
00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:56,520
Speaker 6: have right now.

199
00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:58,360
Speaker 3: Hey, can you saw what that is with the way? Yeah?

200
00:10:58,440 --> 00:10:58,960
Speaker 4: Uh okay.

201
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:04,280
Speaker 6: So in every other trade you have an apprenticeship program, right,

202
00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:06,319
Speaker 6: so when you get on the job, you wet behind

203
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,880
Speaker 6: the ears, you're brand new. You are automatically career, you

204
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:13,360
Speaker 6: are automatically paying into your retirement. You're automatically getting the

205
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,280
Speaker 6: regular benefits everyone else is. In most trades, you're paying

206
00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,240
Speaker 6: half the dues that the journeymen are paying, and you

207
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:21,520
Speaker 6: are considered a full employee.

208
00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:22,080
Speaker 4: You're the new jack.

209
00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,080
Speaker 6: You're getting all the shit jobs, but you are a

210
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,720
Speaker 6: full employee. The Post Office has a position called the

211
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,800
Speaker 6: City Carrier Assistant, which, on paper and how they'll tell

212
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,160
Speaker 6: you sounds like an apprenticeship program, but it's really more

213
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,599
Speaker 6: like they took an apprenticeship program and an unpaid internship

214
00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,640
Speaker 6: and jammed them together. Because these kids are coming in

215
00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,360
Speaker 6: and I'm not even kids. I'm forty years old. I

216
00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,840
Speaker 6: started as a CCIA of forty years old. They're coming

217
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:49,040
Speaker 6: in making less than twenty dollars an hour. They're not

218
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:53,120
Speaker 6: considered a career, so they're not paying into their retirement.

219
00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,280
Speaker 6: You have got all the same union protections, Your benefits

220
00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,120
Speaker 6: are super low, you get five days of annually the

221
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,520
Speaker 6: year and no sick time. Like it's it's yeah, it's

222
00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:04,760
Speaker 6: a meat it's a meat grinder.

223
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:06,319
Speaker 4: So that was a big thing.

224
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,400
Speaker 6: And it creates a whole third tier because we already

225
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,680
Speaker 6: have two different, two different tiered wage system which sucks enough,

226
00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,560
Speaker 6: and anyone that pays attention to labor that drives a

227
00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:19,559
Speaker 6: huge wedge between workers and it crushes solidarity at kneecaps

228
00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,360
Speaker 6: a union, and now with the CCA position in this

229
00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,080
Speaker 6: non career workforce, it's created a whole third tier.

230
00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,200
Speaker 3: This is one of the things that the UAW is

231
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,920
Speaker 3: fighting for. It's like, is eliminating teering systems all together,

232
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,839
Speaker 3: because if you're actually trying to get a functional union

233
00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:35,040
Speaker 3: and make people's jobs better, that's the thing that you do.

234
00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,640
Speaker 3: And having a having a third tier yeah not good,

235
00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:41,359
Speaker 3: extremely bad.

236
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,160
Speaker 6: Yeah exactly, And it's it's it's because they've adopted sort

237
00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,480
Speaker 6: of this Amazon model of doing things where they just

238
00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:51,360
Speaker 6: have this burning churn situation where like Amazon Bezos said

239
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,480
Speaker 6: that he doesn't want anyone working for Amazon for more

240
00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:53,839
Speaker 6: than like.

241
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,960
Speaker 4: Two years, Yeah, if they have these.

242
00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,200
Speaker 6: People constantly and they're constantly burning through them, and they

243
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,080
Speaker 6: never have to pay full benefits, they never have to

244
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,880
Speaker 6: pay into their retirement, they never have to pay them

245
00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:05,320
Speaker 6: more than twenty dollars an hour, and they can just

246
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,440
Speaker 6: get you to work your ass off and burn out

247
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,160
Speaker 6: and quit within two years.

248
00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,840
Speaker 4: As people retire, their labor costs go down. It's evil.

249
00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,880
Speaker 4: It's absolutely it's some Jack Welch hateful bullshit.

250
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:23,160
Speaker 5: So touching on that, if people are really quitting before

251
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,160
Speaker 5: they reach a point in their career where they're educated

252
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,240
Speaker 5: and can stand up for themselves or stand up for

253
00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,760
Speaker 5: each other on the workroom floor, that's one of the

254
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,000
Speaker 5: major reasons that our union is failing. And like you said,

255
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,600
Speaker 5: you use the exact example that I would have. The

256
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,080
Speaker 5: Amazon model is working really well. If you can just

257
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,559
Speaker 5: make it so that people are so miserable they quit

258
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,760
Speaker 5: their job before they understand what their rights are, how

259
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,960
Speaker 5: they can protect each other, what even the contract says

260
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,800
Speaker 5: on the basics of when can you call out, when

261
00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,040
Speaker 5: are you required to come in? Can they send you

262
00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:01,600
Speaker 5: home early without your pay? That's massive. And while we

263
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,320
Speaker 5: were talking about the conditions of the nineteen seventies and

264
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,560
Speaker 5: how long it takes you to get to the top

265
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:12,280
Speaker 5: of the pay scale. This third tier actually increases that

266
00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:16,000
Speaker 5: time by sometimes three or four years. I've known people

267
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,200
Speaker 5: who have been ccas for three or four years. I

268
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,960
Speaker 5: don't think I've seen beyond that, but it wouldn't surprise me.

269
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,000
Speaker 5: What this does is it means that before you go career,

270
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,320
Speaker 5: you're spending all this time. You're effectively a fully trained,

271
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:35,040
Speaker 5: full employee, completely capable of doing everything that's required of you.

272
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,280
Speaker 5: You're just not getting any of the career benefits making

273
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,040
Speaker 5: a minimum wage. And on top of that, the way

274
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,400
Speaker 5: our benefits work is it does come out of your

275
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,760
Speaker 5: pay chash Sheet's not like other jobs where it might

276
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:49,120
Speaker 5: be a separate package or already calculated. In for instance,

277
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,360
Speaker 5: a lot of the trades, they'll say, hey, you get

278
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,440
Speaker 5: twenty three an hour, but the reality is you're making

279
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,320
Speaker 5: around twenty nine or thirty because you're not paying into

280
00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:58,040
Speaker 5: your health.

281
00:14:57,760 --> 00:14:59,640
Speaker 1: Insurance or your retirement or.

282
00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,400
Speaker 5: Anything, that you're effectively making less than the minimum wage.

283
00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,119
Speaker 5: You're almost paying to go to work as a CCA.

284
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,680
Speaker 5: Then just to be Yoda and told that you're not

285
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,560
Speaker 5: going fast enough, even though there's no street standard. But

286
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,040
Speaker 5: that's that's getting into a little bit of nipicky key

287
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:18,720
Speaker 5: contract and stuff that language.

288
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, so yeah, that's one thing that they're promising was

289
00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,400
Speaker 6: to get rid of that non career workforce. So this

290
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,760
Speaker 6: ta comes out and after hearing that we're getting rid

291
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,160
Speaker 6: of the non career significant raises, it's going to be

292
00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,040
Speaker 6: historic for us. What they offered us was one point

293
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,640
Speaker 6: three percent Jesus Christy.

294
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:36,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and this is something for if you

295
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,480
Speaker 3: were in a union and you hear your leadership say

296
00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:43,600
Speaker 3: the words historic contract, you are screwed. That agreement is

297
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,680
Speaker 3: going to suck. I remember on this show, literally live

298
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:48,880
Speaker 3: and recording right before they're supposed to be the Teamster's

299
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,920
Speaker 3: ups strike, right Like, I'm literally on the episode with

300
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,560
Speaker 3: two of the union people and we get the text

301
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,840
Speaker 3: of the contract in the middle of recording, and we

302
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:01,200
Speaker 3: get the thing with it is this historic contract, and

303
00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,040
Speaker 3: we're like reading it in the middle the episode was like, wait,

304
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,760
Speaker 3: this fucking sucks. Shit. It's like, that's that's how you

305
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,560
Speaker 3: know you are duped when you get the historic When

306
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:11,800
Speaker 3: they start pulling out the historic contract thing.

307
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, you'd think if you're making six figures a year,

308
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,440
Speaker 6: you could understand how to buy a used car and

309
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,840
Speaker 6: know that you promise low and deliver high. Like I

310
00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,040
Speaker 6: don't understand how making six figures a year. They haven't

311
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:27,040
Speaker 6: figured that out. But yeah, so in this contract, one

312
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,280
Speaker 6: point three percent, and that's enough to piss anyone off

313
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,240
Speaker 6: because that drops about the same time that we all

314
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,440
Speaker 6: see the longshoremen getting going back to the table because

315
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,640
Speaker 6: they didn't get sixty percent, you know what I mean. Yeah,

316
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,080
Speaker 6: I'm surprised more people just didn't call in sick because

317
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:43,360
Speaker 6: we all got this news on the worker and floor

318
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:45,840
Speaker 6: and I was like, did you see this shit? I

319
00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,240
Speaker 6: know people that quit that day, you know what I mean, Like, yeah,

320
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,480
Speaker 6: it's it's wild. So one point three percent. They're keeping

321
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,720
Speaker 6: the city carrier assistance to nin career workforce. They're removing

322
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,560
Speaker 6: some of our union protections right like it used to be.

323
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:00,680
Speaker 4: You have twelve six the hour rule.

324
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,000
Speaker 6: You don't have to work more than twelve hours in

325
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:04,960
Speaker 6: a day or sixty hours in a week. You can

326
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,159
Speaker 6: say I can't do this, I'm going home, and the

327
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,840
Speaker 6: union could protect you. Now if you are a CCA,

328
00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,320
Speaker 6: or if you have signed up to do overtime and

329
00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,800
Speaker 6: they tell you to stay sixteen hours you have you

330
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:18,920
Speaker 6: have no choice.

331
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,800
Speaker 3: Jesus Christ. So so so you you gave up things

332
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,480
Speaker 3: for a one point that's that's a one point three

333
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:28,679
Speaker 3: percent raise. Is like like that that's the kind of

334
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,360
Speaker 3: thing that you get if like I don't know, say,

335
00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:36,280
Speaker 3: like you got like some unbelievable concession package somewhere else,

336
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:40,119
Speaker 3: maybe conceivably you would take that, or maybe maybe it's

337
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:41,800
Speaker 3: a thing where like you're you're you're like a nurse

338
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:43,680
Speaker 3: and your problem isn't pay. Your problem is you're working

339
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,080
Speaker 3: like two million hours a week. But like that's that's

340
00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,280
Speaker 3: a that's a you got concession somewhere else, the kind

341
00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,119
Speaker 3: of thing, not a we gave up stuff for like

342
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:54,920
Speaker 3: the worst rays you've ever seen.

343
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:57,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean it makes it makes you think about,

344
00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:58,320
Speaker 6: like what was there?

345
00:17:58,440 --> 00:17:59,480
Speaker 4: What was their first offer?

346
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:04,240
Speaker 6: Like it's been over five hundred days of negotiations, what

347
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,200
Speaker 6: was the first offer? We got to put the fuel

348
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:07,520
Speaker 6: in the mail trucks ourselves?

349
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,560
Speaker 4: Like you know what I mean, Tom.

350
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:12,560
Speaker 6: Do you want do you want to talk about what

351
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,240
Speaker 6: the tenet of agreement doesn't address?

352
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:19,640
Speaker 5: So the tenetive Agreement, we spoke about the Post Office's

353
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:24,640
Speaker 5: strategy for dealing with our grievances or how to combat

354
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,600
Speaker 5: the union last episode, and so for the people that

355
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,359
Speaker 5: didn't listen to it or just need a refresher, the

356
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,160
Speaker 5: Post Office has found this extremely effective strategy that if

357
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:39,199
Speaker 5: they just don't agree at any point in our in

358
00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,960
Speaker 5: our grievance procedure, which is if they violate the contract

359
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,760
Speaker 5: and we want to be made whole, whatever that may

360
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:47,520
Speaker 5: look like, they can just keep on saying no and

361
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,400
Speaker 5: push it up to arbitration because there is a grievance

362
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:54,320
Speaker 5: procedure that ends up with a third party intervening as well,

363
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,119
Speaker 5: and if they push enough of those grievances up, we

364
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:03,280
Speaker 5: have a major backlaw on this process because our final

365
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:07,800
Speaker 5: resort is now just the standard of operation. And what

366
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,359
Speaker 5: that means is that there's nothing to force the Post

367
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 5: Office to comply with the contract. If someone wasn't paid

368
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,280
Speaker 5: correctly or was missing a whole day of pay, got

369
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,679
Speaker 5: sent home, or was put on emergency placement, which is

370
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,080
Speaker 5: a process where they say you did something dangerous and

371
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:27,240
Speaker 5: so they can take you off the clock. It could

372
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,560
Speaker 5: be months or even a year before your case is

373
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:32,920
Speaker 5: even looked at. They do have a process, of course,

374
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:37,479
Speaker 5: where they try and prioritize it, but it's obviously not working.

375
00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 1: The other thing that the contract doesn't really touch on is.

376
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:45,920
Speaker 5: Our uniform situation, where the companies that make and manufacture

377
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:51,120
Speaker 5: the uniforms for our letter carriers and actually for all

378
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,280
Speaker 5: the positions in the post office are effectively trying to

379
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,399
Speaker 5: sell you a shirt for like eighty dollars, or the

380
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,800
Speaker 5: most egregious one is like your win your Parka is

381
00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,960
Speaker 5: close to four hundred dollars and your balance that you're

382
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 5: you're giving is I think three eighty FM.

383
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:09,120
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's been one.

384
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,280
Speaker 4: Oh, it's up to four ninety nine.

385
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:15,560
Speaker 6: But the rain trench coat, just the raincoat is four

386
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,160
Speaker 6: hundred and sixty five dollars and you have to get

387
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,640
Speaker 6: it through a vendor, so you can't even pay them

388
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,639
Speaker 6: money to do that. Like a pair of polyester pants

389
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:29,000
Speaker 6: that's going to fall apart in two months, ninety five dollars.

390
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:29,040
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

391
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,680
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, no, it's it's wild. It's wild price gouging.

392
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:33,679
Speaker 6: And they they were going to address that, and what

393
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,440
Speaker 6: they did was they increased are they increased our uniform

394
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,600
Speaker 6: allowance by thirty five dollars, which is like three pairs

395
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 6: of socks from those magazines.

396
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 3: Great incredible stuff.

397
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's it's wild.

398
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 3: Someone should dig into who's running that company and like

399
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,919
Speaker 3: who they're working with to get those contracts, because probably

400
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:54,960
Speaker 3: a fun story there.

401
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:56,919
Speaker 5: I think it's like four out of five of the

402
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:02,159
Speaker 5: approved manufacturers or the distributed are owned by the same people.

403
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,960
Speaker 3: So oh great, okay, Yeah, I'm bequeathing this as a

404
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 3: gift to it. I know there's a bunch of journalists.

405
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,199
Speaker 3: You listen to this, go go do that story. I

406
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 3: guarantee you'll find some unbelievably unhinged stuff.

407
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,520
Speaker 5: And a quick shout out to any letter carriers that

408
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:22,119
Speaker 5: are listening to this. If you don't use your entire allowance,

409
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 5: look out for the ccas, look out for the PTFs,

410
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,359
Speaker 5: the non career and the fresh faces on there. If

411
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 5: you don't use the entirety of your uniform allowance, to

412
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 5: the way that they view it is that they can

413
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 5: give us less money, So use all of it. Don't

414
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 5: protest by not spending that money. It's not even yours,

415
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,400
Speaker 5: so spend it. Give it to someone, do something, you.

416
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 6: Know, Yeah, get the new jack in your office a

417
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 6: fucking raincoat, because like I tried, to do the math

418
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,880
Speaker 6: on it. For winter gear for a place like Minnesota,

419
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:50,879
Speaker 6: to get all the winter gear and your summer gear,

420
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,400
Speaker 6: it's going to take you four years of uniform allowances

421
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 6: to get.

422
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 4: All that gear. Jesus right, it's ridiculous. Yeah.

423
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 3: And like it's Minnesota, right, Like I'm from Chicago, so

424
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 3: like it is, it is slightly warmer in Chicago and

425
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 3: you get wincheles in negative forty here, Yeah, and like

426
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 3: Minnesota is much worse. So like that is that that

427
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 3: is not like optional stuff. That is the difference between

428
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 3: you having hypothermia and you not.

429
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,400
Speaker 4: Have Yeah, no, exactly.

430
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,680
Speaker 6: And and god forbid you want to buy a pair

431
00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,960
Speaker 6: of shorts as well, because Minnesota, Minnesota summers get over

432
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 6: one hundred index.

433
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, speaking speaking of ways to not die in

434
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 3: Minnesota summers, here are some product and services that will

435
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 3: probably not help you with that, but maybe they will.

436
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 3: And we are back.

437
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,760
Speaker 6: One of the other things that Tom touched on that

438
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 6: this agreement doesn't address is he talked about the non

439
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 6: compliance and the grievance backlog, but also just the toxic

440
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 6: work environment, which we've talked about.

441
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:03,880
Speaker 4: And it's so bad.

442
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 6: The whole reason we have The trope of someone going

443
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 6: postal is usually because someone's bullied to a point where

444
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 6: violence occurs. They either take it out on management or

445
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 6: my own manager in my first year got in a

446
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:17,919
Speaker 6: fistfight with one of the clerks.

447
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 3: Jesus correct.

448
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 6: The post office has lost grievances because management was threatening

449
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 6: to shoot an employee. Any letter carrier would have been

450
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 6: fired for that immediately that manager got a letter of warning.

451
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, we have a joint statement on violence in the workplace,

452
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 5: which I think you were about to get into the leg. Yeah,

453
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 5: they're just not complying. It's a very one sided thing. Effectively,

454
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 5: management has qualified immunity.

455
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 3: Great, great, your managers are also cops. It could attack you. Incredible,

456
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 3: incredible stuff from the post office.

457
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 6: Yeah, and then there's a bunch of wage theft too.

458
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 6: I mean personally, I caught my own manager putting in

459
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 6: all the ccas for two hour lunches because the ccas

460
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 6: are new and don't know what they're doing and they

461
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,679
Speaker 6: don't know check their time all the time, putting us

462
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 6: all in for two hour lunches and then told me,

463
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:06,719
Speaker 6: tried to pretend to me, oh, that was just an

464
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 6: automatic computer error. Whereas if we take a thirty one

465
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 6: minute lunch. I have my phone blowing up being asked

466
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 6: why I'm not moving and delivering the mail. But you

467
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 6: guys manage to accidentally miss a two hour left.

468
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 3: Come on, don't lie.

469
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 4: You don't gotta lie.

470
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 6: You don't gotta lie to be my friend, Like, come on,

471
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 6: and then and then there's other places around the country

472
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 6: where we the NLCS one grievances where management was making

473
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 6: CCA's work in the dark, delivering mail till like seven

474
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 6: thirty pm and clocking them out at four o'clock in

475
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,239
Speaker 6: the after business. All right, so they got people out

476
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 6: there working for free. It's it's and we have to

477
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 6: catch we have to catch them doing that. Yeah, they're

478
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 6: never going to own up to it that they all

479
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 6: watch their payroll. The management structure at the post office,

480
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 6: it's like the TMU version of Game of Thrones. They're

481
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 6: all nasty, they're all backstabbing each other, and like, the

482
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 6: nastier you are and the more willing you are to

483
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 6: screw people, the higher up you go in management at

484
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 6: the post office, Like it's disgusting.

485
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 5: So there's even more convoluted ways that the management finds

486
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 5: to effectively steal from the employees, and one of them

487
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 5: huge problem is changing the metrics on what a route

488
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 5: looks like. And so they can alter the times of hey,

489
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 5: how long you were in the office packing your truck

490
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 5: when you got back to the office and started unloading

491
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 5: and cleaning, And so what they do is they make

492
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 5: it look like the street time took you, let's call

493
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 5: it five hours, and you were in the office for

494
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 5: four hours. That way, they can make a route look

495
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 5: smaller than it actually is and have an excuse not

496
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 5: to hire another person, which makes it so that this

497
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 5: poor carrier who was assigned to this route now has

498
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 5: a ten hour day, eleven hour day just by default

499
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 5: on a light day, on a regular day.

500
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: This is a really big problem for the rural carriers.

501
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: Their contract is a little bit different.

502
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 5: Effectively, they get paid by the job, not necessarily hourly,

503
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 5: or that's the case for a lot of them, and

504
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 5: so if you're adjusting their times, they're going to be

505
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 5: paid out for an eight hour day. But you know,

506
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 5: the route has just been stretched out through this method

507
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 5: of just dishonest scanning and disalamant entries, and they get

508
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 5: free labor. And I'm not even well versed on the

509
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 5: RCA contract that's a whole other You know, there's only

510
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 5: nine unions that go into the post office, which means

511
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 5: there's probably nine different contracts.

512
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, and in every single one of these contracts, they're

513
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 3: inventing new, different and unique ways to do wage theft

514
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 3: just steal people's money, which, and it's worth noting again,

515
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 3: like if a post carrier like broke into an office

516
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 3: and stole the amount of money that is being stolen

517
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 3: from them, they would go to prison forever. Right, But

518
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 3: because it's your boss doing this, Like, the worst thing

519
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 3: that happens to them is they have to go through

520
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 3: a grievance procedure even though they are just literally robbing you.

521
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, and yeah, you do not fuck with the

522
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 6: mail cops. But the mail cops the postal inspectors work

523
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 6: for management. So yeah, and management does nothing but sit

524
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 6: in their chair all day, sniffing their own farts, watching tiktoks,

525
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 6: and trying to figure out how to screw people through

526
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 6: the virtue of spreadsheets while we are all out working

527
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 6: our asses off. It's a very demoralizing and abusive, abusive situation.

528
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 6: So we were hoping that shit would get addressed in

529
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 6: the tenetive agreement and none of it was. So there's

530
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 6: all sorts of problems with that. I'm with building a

531
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 6: fighting an elc and we are basically a bottom up

532
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 6: more of a radical reform caucus.

533
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 4: I am out of Fort Worth, but like it's started.

534
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 6: In Minneapolis, and you've got people in Chicago and New

535
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,080
Speaker 6: York and Naples, Florida, and San Antonio, Hawaii, all over

536
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 6: the country who are basically, we are tired of we

537
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 6: are tired of our leadership being in bed with management

538
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 6: or at least doing things where they look like they're

539
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 6: in bed with management. We've been putting on vote no

540
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 6: rallies all over the country. You've probably seen some on

541
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 6: the news.

542
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 3: And this this is vote no for the tight devisse. Yes,

543
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 3: this is this is this is a vote to send

544
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 3: your bargaining reps back to the table with the demand

545
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 3: that we can't take a deal that sucks this much.

546
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 3: That's what a vote no thing is. Yeah.

547
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 6: So yeah, we've been trying to get letter carriers to

548
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 6: vote no on it. That's so we've been doing the

549
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 6: vote no campaigns so we can vote this shit down

550
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 6: and get it in front of a judge. Because once

551
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 6: it goes into arbitration, there's a lot of fear mongering things,

552
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 6: Oh we could lose this, Oh we could lose that.

553
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 6: Oh we could lose this. But like Mia, you you

554
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 6: said it yourself. These are all concessions. We're not getting

555
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 6: anything for giving up all these things. One point three

556
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 6: percent is what we're getting.

557
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, like one point three percent is the kind

558
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 3: of raise that like in a normal functioning union is

559
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 3: like that. That's like a company's opening agreements that both

560
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 3: you and the company knows you're not going to take. Yeah,

561
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 3: like it's a joke.

562
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 6: Like that in and of itself would be a major

563
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 6: concession to get something else.

564
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 4: But we're doing all these concessions to get that.

565
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the win quote unquote.

566
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 4: Yeah.

567
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 6: So the thing is the Postal Reform Act says that

568
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 6: we are supposed to get paid comparatively to a comparable

569
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 6: company in the private sector. So an arbiter is going

570
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,680
Speaker 6: to look at that and try and look at ups

571
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 6: UPS or Amazon, and the post Office is really trying

572
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 6: to push it towards Amazon, which is why I try

573
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 6: to talk to every letter carrier i know to support

574
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 6: and get some crosscraft solidarity with Amazon, because without going

575
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 6: on too much of a rabbit trail the whole you know,

576
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 6: a rising tide lifts all ships, and one union in

577
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 6: another industry helps everyone in every other industry. And trying

578
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 6: to get people to understand that. But like you compare

579
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 6: our contract to UPS and UPS they top out with

580
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 6: I think their benefits package tops out one hundred and

581
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 6: twenty four thousand a year and it's about, you know, five.

582
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 4: Or eight years to reach top scale. Ours tops out.

583
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 6: With this tentative agreement at ninety three thousand a year,

584
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 6: and it still takes us thirteen years to get to

585
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 6: top steps. Christ, that's not comparable, right, yeah, yeah, no,

586
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 6: not at all. So I'm not afraid of arbitration. I'm

587
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 6: hoping we get this in front of an arbiter, because

588
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 6: unless that arbiter is completely crooked, I can't see him saying, well,

589
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 6: you guys deserve one point three percent.

590
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

591
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 4: Yeah.

592
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 5: So when I first saw badmouth talking and what his

593
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 5: posts were on Reddit and stuff like that, I got

594
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 5: really excited because I remember when I was speaking to

595
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 5: my local president and talking to the stewards in my

596
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 5: area across like a couple of different stations, the kind

597
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 5: of big question was what do you do when the

598
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 5: union breaks your heart? And I guess the answer is

599
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 5: everything that badmouth has just talked about. You build a

600
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 5: better one. You remind people that there is an alternative.

601
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 5: Everything started somewhere. And if you go to his first

602
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 5: episode on the From Aid to Arbitration podcast, he has

603
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 5: something called the CCA Corner where he's educating the newcomers,

604
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 5: the fresh faces. He's just talking about horizontal power. And

605
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 5: I was listening to that episode before we had spoken.

606
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 5: I got so excited just to hear what this this

607
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 5: person was up to.

608
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 6: You know, I try to sneak in as many anarchist

609
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 6: shit without saying I'm an anarchist. I try and sneak

610
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 6: as much of that shit in as I can. I

611
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 6: get old heads who have a Trump hat on talking

612
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 6: about anarchist talking points.

613
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 4: It's it's funny as fuck to me.

614
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 1: You know who won't break your heart?

615
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 3: Frogs support this podcast if you don't fight them with

616
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 3: therefore canoffee. Is there anything else you want to talk

617
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 3: about with arbitration or should we move on to the

618
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 3: impending doom of the postal Service? Yeah?

619
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 6: I think I think the arbitration there's a whole lot

620
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 6: of fear mongoring and shit. I think anyone paying attention

621
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 6: to things we can't get a worse deal is the

622
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 6: main point there, and that's that's the whole point of

623
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 6: the vote no campaign is to just tell people, hey, dude,

624
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 6: we might as well go down swinging, like we're not

625
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 6: going to get a worse deal than this.

626
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 4: But that's that's pretty much it for arbitration.

627
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, so let's let let's let's move on to the

628
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 3: future of the post office, which I want to take

629
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 3: a second to mention that, like, Okay, look like I

630
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 3: am not someone who has any respect for the people

631
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 3: who built the US government. However, if you want the

632
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 3: US government to like exist, right, the postal service is

633
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 3: something that was deemed so important that it is like

634
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 3: establishing the postal service is in the main body of

635
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 3: the constitution. Now, freedom of speech right, and like the

636
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 3: right to free association, that's not in the main body

637
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 3: of the constitution. That is a fucking amendment. Right. The

638
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 3: people who built the American system thought that the postal

639
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 3: service was a more important thing to make sure to

640
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 3: have in the main body of the constitution that set

641
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 3: up the modern version of the government.

642
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 7: Right.

643
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 3: They thought that shit was more important than like you're

644
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 3: right to have freedom of assembly, like you're right to

645
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 3: not literally be grabbed off the street and tortured, which

646
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 3: is like the Fourth Amendment right. So like, you know,

647
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 3: in the scale of priorities of like how important is

648
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 3: the postal service, Like that's how important people who set

649
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 3: it up thought it was. And those people were not

650
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 3: very smart and like a bunch of racist slave voters.

651
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,959
Speaker 3: So I would argue it's actually more important than they

652
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 3: thought it was because they're you know, I mean, like

653
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 3: obviously their priorities are completely out of whack.

654
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 6: But like I am not a founding father, stand but

655
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 6: the post office was actually invented by Benjamin Franklin, who

656
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 6: I don't believe owned any slaves, and.

657
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 3: Yeah he was really racist, but yeah, oh yeah, I

658
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 3: mean like I know, I know that, I know that part.

659
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,959
Speaker 6: I'm I just I don't think he actually owned anybody,

660
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 6: but like that's it's a yeah yeah, and it was

661
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 6: started I think fifteen years before the Constitution was even written.

662
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 3: Oh no, he did, he he he he did own

663
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 3: a slave as a young man, and I think freed him.

664
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 6: You know, I was trying to get the racist bastard

665
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 6: a little bit of a win.

666
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 3: But like we're finding this out live on this So yeah,

667
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 3: he did for his early life and then became an

668
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 3: abolitionist later, which is still bad.

669
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's uh. You know, I'm glad you came

670
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 4: around eventually, I guess.

671
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 8: I don't know.

672
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 3: Look, we're finding this out live on the show. Oh

673
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 3: my god, that was a lot of time of him

674
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 3: owning slaves. That absolutely I.

675
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 4: Take that was why I take back my critical support.

676
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 3: Critical uncritical opposition.

677
00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 6: To hell with Brent frank in school, the hell with

678
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 6: b Franklin too. But yeah, we're coming in a Trump

679
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 6: administration and stuff. And let me tell you that the

680
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 6: situation wasn't really great under Biden either, because we have

681
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 6: a postmaster, Lewis.

682
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 4: Dickhead to Joy.

683
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 6: He was put into place by Donald Trump, and you've

684
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 6: seen they wanted to slow walk the post office into

685
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 6: privatization since the Reagan years, right, and they're just slowly

686
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 6: chipping away at service and quality. D Joy was connected

687
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 6: to XPO, the giant logistics company. He had stock and

688
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 6: I can't remember what position he held. He apparently detangled

689
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 6: himself from that when he became postmaster. But you know,

690
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 6: they all say that I don't know for sure. I

691
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 6: am not an accountant, so I can't do that well.

692
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 3: And like like, also I want to point out the

693
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 3: president of the United States is issuing a cryptocurrency like

694
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 3: that shit that sit is that shit is so fake now,

695
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 3: like oh god yeah.

696
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 6: So like Joy's also got a reputations of just being

697
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 6: a massive job killer besides looking like a low rent

698
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 6: spider man villain. So under his tenure, we've seen service

699
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 6: take quality take a nosedive. And I want to talk

700
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,280
Speaker 6: about this stuff, and this might get my ass in trouble,

701
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 6: but I am tired as a letter carrier who loves

702
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 6: my job, loves saying hi to people in the neighborhood,

703
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 6: loves walking three yards and knowing the names of all

704
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 6: the dogs on my route, and being the face of

705
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 6: the post office. It is so frustrating to have people

706
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 6: blame the mail man and the letter carrier for the

707
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 6: decline in service, because we are out there being brutalized

708
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:40,760
Speaker 6: by the Post Office, doing our best and fighting against

709
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 6: the degradation of service. That is a top down problem

710
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 6: with leadership in the Post Office. I wanted to outline

711
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 6: some of the stuff that I have evidence of and

712
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 6: have seen firsthand of management undercutting the service of the

713
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 6: post office. They willfully delay the mail all the time.

714
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 6: There's pictures of racks and racks of DPS. It's assorted

715
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 6: letters and they come in trays just sitting in a

716
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 6: warehouse somewhere, and management they will order you on a

717
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:17,359
Speaker 6: regular basis to prioritize delivering packages over the mail. If

718
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 6: it's a big heavy day and they're looking at labor hours,

719
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 6: they will sometimes tell you to not deliver the mail

720
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 6: and just deliver.

721
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 4: The packages because the packages.

722
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 6: Have a tracking number and their boss can get in

723
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 6: They can get in trouble for that, but they can

724
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 6: lie and hide the mail for another day.

725
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 4: Like that shit happens all the time.

726
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's like can just be like they can

727
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 3: just be like hiding like your bills yep, or life

728
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 3: social Security check yeah yeah, also your junk mail.

729
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 6: Have you ever have you ever ordered something and it

730
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 6: says it was delivered but you didn't get it, and

731
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 6: then it shows up the next day, or it says that,

732
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,959
Speaker 6: oh there's a vacation hold, I didn't put this on hold,

733
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 6: and then it shows up the next day, or you

734
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 6: got to go down to the post office.

735
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: To get it, or recently severe weather delay.

736
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,959
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, I mean the severe the severe weather delay

737
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 6: can happen, but I'm talking. What I'm talking about is

738
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 6: ones where the package didn't make it to the letter

739
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 6: carrier who's out there delivering. Because this has happened to

740
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,880
Speaker 6: me multiple times, and it didn't make it to me

741
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 6: before I left the station. But because they want to

742
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 6: make their numbers look good for their boss, they will

743
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 6: scan it at the station as if it was delivered

744
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:22,800
Speaker 6: or as if it's a Jesus.

745
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 7: Yeah.

746
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 4: So because they want.

747
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 6: Their numbers to look good, because their entire job is

748
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 6: life on a spreadsheet. And so then I have to

749
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:32,799
Speaker 6: I have to talk to my customers the following day.

750
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 6: But like it said, it is delivered.

751
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 4: I didn't. I saw you, and you didn't drop it off.

752
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 4: I was worried someone stole it. What happened. I was like,

753
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 4: I know exactly what happened. I know what their name is.

754
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 6: That's some of the service degradation. We've had people in

755
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 6: other areas catch management.

756
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 3: Throwing away mail Jesus Christ.

757
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah.

758
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 6: Management reprimanding carriers who follow the manual and provide good

759
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 6: customer service, like I've been on the phone where I've

760
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 6: had my manager call me because I was standing in

761
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 6: one place for five minutes. And it's because I was

762
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 6: helping an elderly woman move her garbage cans and helped

763
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 6: her get some groceries out of her car to bring in.

764
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 6: You know, all the stuff that you see the good

765
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 6: mail man, the reason why people love the post office.

766
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,640
Speaker 4: Shit like that. I got told no, you're not doing that.

767
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 6: And I had another customer come up to say hi

768
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 6: to me while I was on the phone, and I

769
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 6: just stopped to just say hi as I'm walking by,

770
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 6: and my manager chewed me out for even talking to

771
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 6: the person. They don't care about us, and they throw

772
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 6: us under the bus all the time. Because if I

773
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 6: don't deliver a package because they never made it to

774
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 6: me and it says delivered, the customer will come and

775
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 6: complain at the post office. Management will tell them, oh,

776
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 6: I'll talk to the carrier. That carrier made a mistake,

777
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 6: and it's no, carriers do make mistakes, but like this

778
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 6: intentional degradation of service to make the numbers, that blame

779
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 6: always goes on the letter carrier, and it is we

780
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 6: love our job. We love our jobs we love our communities.

781
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 6: I got like I might start crying if I talk

782
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 6: about this too much, Like I love bringing treats to dogs,

783
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,959
Speaker 6: like I get Christmas cards from old folk on my route,

784
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 6: Like I know, like I know when some people's birthdays are.

785
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 6: And I had an old time around on my route,

786
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 6: sat outside to say I to be every day. Suddenly

787
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,399
Speaker 6: he wasn't and his wife was out in the garden,

788
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 6: and I said, where is he. Oh, he passed last night,

789
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 6: and she starts crying. I start crying, and like I

790
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 6: get in trouble for taking five minutes to give her

791
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:31,320
Speaker 6: a hug and talk things through for a second, like it's.

792
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, sorry.

793
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 3: This is one of these areas where like delivering the

794
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 3: mail is a social thing, but the thing is like

795
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 3: sociality is the enemy of capital, and that's that's the

796
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,879
Speaker 3: people who are running the post office that they don't

797
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 3: give a shit about, you know, like the actual social

798
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 3: bonds and ties that you know that that are the

799
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 3: thing that society is supposed to be composed of. Like

800
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 3: they care about their metrics and them being able to

801
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 3: make more money in them, you know, being able to

802
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 3: advance higher in their career ladder. Yes, it reminds me

803
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 3: a lot of the campaign against the school system, where

804
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 3: you deliberately underfund things and then you blame the teachers

805
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 3: for why the service is bad, and it's like, well,

806
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 3: it is not a teacher's fault that there's like forty

807
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 3: eight kids in a classroom, right, Like, yeah, you know.

808
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 3: And there's also a very very similar preparatization campaign run

809
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 3: by a bunch of Australia powerful forces. Let's go back

810
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 3: and talk a bit about like who the people are

811
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 3: who are doing this and what their sort of plans are.

812
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, so you have to joy he's doing that, and

813
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 6: we have all of these they're starting to some of

814
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 6: the stuff they're building these I think they're called sdnc's.

815
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 6: It's basically they take a bunch of post offices from

816
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 6: a metro area and then they make one big distribution

817
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 6: hub like Amazon. Well that is adding an hour commute

818
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 6: onto some of these letter carriers. They come in, they

819
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 6: get to their mail truck and then they have to

820
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 6: drive their mail truck for an hour to even start delivering. Right.

821
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 6: It's a huge message, it's a huge fiasco, and it

822
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 6: feels very intentional because what's going to happen when they

823
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 6: close those facilities built by the government down and it

824
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 6: starts to privatize. Well, what do you know, Amazon just

825
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 6: got a new hub or whoever ends up trying to

826
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 6: step in. That's a little conspiracy brained, but like certain

827
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 6: fiasco's done by de Joy's delivering for America plan seem

828
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 6: Taylor made to fail for the Post Office but work

829
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 6: for someone else. And then also you have Brian Renfrow,

830
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 6: who is the current president of the NLC, the one

831
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 6: who was telling us that our tentative agreement was going

832
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,400
Speaker 6: to be historic, when all it does is help management.

833
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 6: He has gone on speaking tours lying about this tentative

834
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 6: agreement and everything he says sounds like management gave him

835
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 6: a script. And there's a whole lot of theories on

836
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 6: that and how when he know when he loses his position.

837
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 6: People have running bets on what position he's going to

838
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 6: take in the Post Office the second he's voted out.

839
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

840
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 4: He's the one who's negotiated this whole contract.

841
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 6: He used his position as president, He iced out everyone

842
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 6: from the union. He's the only one who talked to

843
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 6: the Post Office. So this this tenet of agreement is

844
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 6: his Babe, Wait, what yep, the executive council. What yeah,

845
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 6: he didn't tell the executive council.

846
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 3: Wait, you didn't even have like a bargaining team.

847
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:20,799
Speaker 4: No, he had a.

848
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 6: Bargaining team that were all outside contractors. He had no

849
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 6: one from the union with him. What yeah, because he wanted.

850
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:27,720
Speaker 4: It to be his baby.

851
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 3: That's so unhidea. That's like, I need to stop here

852
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 3: for a second, because that's like, if your union is

853
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 3: doing that to you, you need to understand, Like, dear listener,

854
00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 3: that is not how any of this shit is supposed

855
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,240
Speaker 3: to work. Yep. Like, even even a normal corrupt union

856
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 3: will have a bargaining team that is composed of like

857
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 3: it will have a bargaining team that isn't outside contractors,

858
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 3: so there'll be people from inside the union who are

859
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 3: like the stooges of like whatever sort of management click

860
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 3: is in power. Like having them all be outside contractors

861
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 3: is one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard.

862
00:43:59,120 --> 00:43:59,560
Speaker 4: You need to.

863
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 3: Cutting out. That's so wild, Oh my god.

864
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 4: Oh yeah No.

865
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:06,839
Speaker 6: And the thing is we're coming up on six hundred

866
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,359
Speaker 6: days without an without a ratified contract, like he has

867
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 6: been the only one doing it this whole time, and

868
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 6: there's a bunch of shady shit. Okay, so he's struggled

869
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 6: with alcoholism. I have dealt with addiction. I have lost

870
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 6: friends to addiction. I have family members to struggle with addiction.

871
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 6: I respect anybody who is going to take care themselves.

872
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 6: But he disappeared for something like fifty days or something,

873
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 6: didn't tell anybody. He ghosted everybody. He ghosted everybody, and

874
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 6: this is the early days of negotiation. People stepped in

875
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 6: to start negotiating without him. It turns out he had

876
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:47,800
Speaker 6: gone and checked himself into rehab. But the thing is,

877
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 6: the NLC has two fucking vice presidents. I have all

878
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 6: the respect in the world for someone to take care

879
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 6: of themselves. But when you got two hundred and seventy

880
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 6: seven thousand employees livelihood, yeah, you're responsible for and you

881
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,800
Speaker 6: got I don't care if you got cancer, if you

882
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 6: got an addiction problem, or I don't care what it is.

883
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 6: If you got to step away to take care of yourself,

884
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 6: please do that. But puts your vice, one of your

885
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 6: two fucking vice presidents in charge. So what happens is

886
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,839
Speaker 6: someone steps in while he's gone, he comes back, gets

887
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 6: mad that at them, strips them of their responsibilities. Blackballs

888
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 6: them from the union and goes back into negotiations all

889
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 6: by himself, which is why getting to the next point

890
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 6: on this. At the most generous, he is in ept

891
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 6: as hell. He is inept as hell and just the

892
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 6: worst sort of person to be in there. At the worst,

893
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 6: he has corrupt as hell and just DeJoy's stooge. And

894
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 6: the thing is, we work for the federal government. Whether

895
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 6: it's malice or incompetence with the federal government, it's usually both.

896
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 4: And it doesn't matter.

897
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 6: Which one it is to me, whether he's corrupt or

898
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 6: just an idiot, it's all the same to me because

899
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 6: I can't make my fucking rent. So expect de Joy

900
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 6: and the Post Office to do us dirty. That's their

901
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 6: job as management. But to have the president of our

902
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 6: own union doing this to us is unacceptable, and like

903
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,839
Speaker 6: it's yeah, yeah, yeah.

904
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,240
Speaker 5: So on that note, that's one of the big pushes

905
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 5: for the union recently has been to reach open bargaining

906
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 5: where the membership is actually a part of it. And

907
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 5: that's what to my knowledge, it is one of the

908
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 5: major issues that the building and fighting and IOC or

909
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:37,360
Speaker 5: the building better union talks are going towards.

910
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, can you can you talk about what open bargaining is.

911
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 3: It's a thing that should be the standards for all unions.

912
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,600
Speaker 5: But yeah, I mean open bargaining is effectively the bottom

913
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 5: up structure of having your members were even the representatives

914
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 5: put forward motions that are open to the public and

915
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 5: open to the membership so that you can effect tofllly

916
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:05,440
Speaker 5: ask for more or get a different variety of opinions

917
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:09,520
Speaker 5: and strategies, you know, the duality of power kind of structure.

918
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 5: But what the post office currently has it's not open bargaining,

919
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 5: or what postal union has, it's not open bargaining. They

920
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,799
Speaker 5: have their own team that they send in. They don't

921
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 5: talk to the membership. You kind of just elect your

922
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,359
Speaker 5: officials and then they come back with whatever they ended

923
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 5: up with, and they don't consult with any of their

924
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 5: bottom line, which is problematic for obvious reasons, including this

925
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 5: one where someone can go missing for fifty days and

926
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 5: most of the membership has no idea. I've even talked

927
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 5: to people. I think it was like two or three

928
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,359
Speaker 5: weeks ago. I went to a bar and I ran

929
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 5: into a letter carrier from the next city over as

930
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:47,399
Speaker 5: a go did you vote?

931
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 9: Know?

932
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: And it's like, what are you talking about? He doesn't

933
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:52,360
Speaker 1: know that there's a vote going on.

934
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:54,399
Speaker 3: Is out there?

935
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, but yeah, yeah, I guess. I mean, like

936
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:01,480
Speaker 4: the main objective we want to do, I'm sure we're

937
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:02,200
Speaker 4: running at a time.

938
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, sorry.

939
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 4: I could talk about this shit for days.

940
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:06,800
Speaker 3: I mean I do.

941
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 4: That's pretty much all I do anymore. Like Tom was saying,

942
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 4: the building of fighting ALC and pushing for the vote,

943
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 4: no thing.

944
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 6: The main thing that we're wanting is coming onto shows

945
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 6: like this and getting the public perception of what the

946
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 6: letter carrier deals.

947
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 4: With what's going on.

948
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 6: Because this Trump's coming in, they're going to be trying

949
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 6: to privatize it like they always do.

950
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 4: That's already been in the works.

951
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 6: It's important that the public knows this degradation of service

952
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 6: is the point of it, and how how can the

953
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 6: public sort of support our fight so we can keep

954
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:37,760
Speaker 6: the post office.

955
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 4: So I wanted to just share a couple of links.

956
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 6: If you're a letter carrier and you want to get

957
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 6: involved with reforming things from an electoral end, there's the

958
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 6: Concern Letter Carriers and you can go to Concern Lettercarriers

959
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 6: dot com. They're going to be running in twenty twenty

960
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 6: six to get rid of Renfro. If you are impatient

961
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 6: like me and you can't fucking wait that long, and

962
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 6: if even if you're not a letter carrier, you can

963
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 6: see how we're fighting with the building of Fighting NLC,

964
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,240
Speaker 6: which is more of a radical, bottom up reform caucus.

965
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 6: If you want to get involved in that, or you

966
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 6: just want to kind of get updates from people who

967
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 6: aren't going to bullshit you, you can go to Fighting

968
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 6: NLC dot com to check that out. Oh, Tom, did

969
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 6: you want to talk about the ANLC Legislative Action Center.

970
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, so we touched briefly on last episode. The NLC

971
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 5: actually can't really use a lot of the money and

972
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 5: funds from the union itself to lobby or to push

973
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 5: Congress or anything like that, so there are separate organizations.

974
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 5: There are facets of our organization that do that. You

975
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,800
Speaker 5: can find that at NLC dot org. Specifically, they do

976
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 5: have a link where you put in new zip code

977
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 5: and it gives you the appropriate Congress member to write

978
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 5: a letter to and really push them on what to do.

979
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 4: There.

980
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 5: You can also donate to their fund if you see

981
00:49:57,040 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 5: so fit and are able to do so.

982
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,839
Speaker 6: Yeah, at that legislative action thing is actually pretty cool

983
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 6: because you don't even have to call. They'll have pre

984
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 6: filled out things that you can just click, enter your

985
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 6: email and it'll do it for you.

986
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 4: So it's a real quick snap.

987
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,439
Speaker 6: It's the easiest way to harass or your congress person,

988
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 6: aside from drunk dialing Ted Cruz, which is my favorite.

989
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll have links to all that. We'll have links

990
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 3: to all that in the Discover.

991
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:25,839
Speaker 6: There's one more plug I wanted to make because all

992
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 6: the fires out in LA right now, because you have

993
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 6: letter carriers where the post office burned down and so

994
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 6: did their house, and now they're reporting to duty at

995
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 6: another post office twenty minutes away to go and deliver

996
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 6: deliver mail to a devastated neighborhood.

997
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 4: Because the thing is, when shit happens.

998
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 6: Whether it's a hurricane or a fire or you know,

999
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 6: the first people who show up are your neighbors or

1000
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 6: the punks or the punks and mutual aid in your

1001
00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 6: neighbors show up. The first person you see from the government,

1002
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 6: we're federal employees, were not federally is. But the first

1003
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 6: hint of normalcy that a lot of people get is

1004
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 6: trying to just hide out and be safe and then

1005
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 6: they see their mail man walking through their fucking lawn

1006
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 6: trying to deliver it to their shit, you know what

1007
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:16,040
Speaker 6: I mean. Like that's important, and we all love what

1008
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 6: we do. We love being a part of the community,

1009
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 6: and we love helping. And sorry, I knew I was

1010
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:22,439
Speaker 6: gonna cry at some fucking point.

1011
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:23,280
Speaker 4: Okay.

1012
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:26,439
Speaker 6: So the NLCS an NLC Disaster Relief Fund.

1013
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,880
Speaker 4: The public can donate to it. It's usually letter carriers.

1014
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:30,960
Speaker 4: We all donate to it.

1015
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 6: And what happens is if your house burns down like

1016
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 6: in La right now, or if like you were devastating

1017
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:40,720
Speaker 6: the fires in in in Hawaii or whatever. When that happens,

1018
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,720
Speaker 6: a letter carrier can apply and as soon as they're approved,

1019
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 6: which can happen within a day or two, they automatically

1020
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 6: get sent like a thousand dollars from the fund to

1021
00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 6: just pay for their pay for their hotel or pay

1022
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:55,400
Speaker 6: for their rent a car. And then they get approved.

1023
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,479
Speaker 6: It's not a fix all, but they'll get like they'll

1024
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 6: get another check after a little bit to help with

1025
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 6: some of their damages after they make their claim. That's

1026
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 6: something that normally it's just letter carriers giving to letter carriers.

1027
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 6: So we can all take care of each other, but

1028
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 6: like the public is allowed to donate to that too.

1029
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:13,240
Speaker 6: I know there's a lot of you guys have already

1030
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 6: been talking about a lot of mutual aid stuff at

1031
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 6: the beginning of your episodes lately. I just want to

1032
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 6: plug that one as a mailman specific one. Yeah, I'm

1033
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 6: sorry for crying.

1034
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 3: No, no, Yeah, I mean it's emotional, it's yeah.

1035
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:29,879
Speaker 4: That shit sucks, bro, Yeah, it really does.

1036
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:32,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. Is is there anything else that you want to

1037
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 3: make sure people know before we head off?

1038
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:38,280
Speaker 5: If I have one thing, it's just help your co workers.

1039
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 5: You don't have to be a steward. You don't have

1040
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 5: to be anything. Just find somebody who don't think deserves it.

1041
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:45,920
Speaker 1: Help them too. I guarantee you that they do.

1042
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 10: I'm Michael Phillips, an historian, the author of a book

1043
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 10: about racism in Dallas called White Metropolis, and the co

1044
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 10: author of an upcoming book about the eugenics move in

1045
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:18,840
Speaker 10: Texas called The Purifying Knife.

1046
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 11: And I'm Stephen Monchelli, an investigative reporter and columnist in

1047
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 11: Texas who covers political extremism and beyond.

1048
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 10: Since the late nineteen nineties, Alex Jones built an extensive

1049
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 10: media empire, spreading out landish conspiracy theories from his home

1050
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 10: base in Austin, Texas. A native of the Dallas suburb

1051
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 10: of Rockwall, over the years, Jones has claimed that the

1052
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 10: Apollo eleven moon landing was fake, so too, he said

1053
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:49,120
Speaker 10: was the Sandy Hook Elementary School mass shooting, he claimed

1054
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:54,720
Speaker 10: was stage to justify new gun control laws. According to Jones,

1055
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 10: the US government can control the weather has intentionally caused

1056
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 10: floods and other weather disasters to punish Texas and other

1057
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 10: conservative states. He has insisted that chemicals intentionally placed in

1058
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 10: American drinking water are turning frogs gay, part of an

1059
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 10: experiment by the American government seeking a way to undermine

1060
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 10: the nuclear family while peddling dubious supplements with unproven health benefits.

1061
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,360
Speaker 10: Jones began his broadcasting career with a call in public

1062
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 10: access cable TV show, before moving on to radio and

1063
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:31,720
Speaker 10: then online. In spite of his outlandish claims, in twenty fifteen,

1064
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 10: Jones was able to set off a panic in Texas

1065
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 10: that inspired action from Governor Greg Abbott.

1066
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:42,320
Speaker 12: Now to a Texas sized conspiracy theory, sparking headlines across

1067
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 12: the country, including this week in the New York Times

1068
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 12: the theory that an upcoming Pentagon training exercise is actually

1069
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 12: part of a plan to impose martial law.

1070
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:55,880
Speaker 3: To many, it's far fetched, but not.

1071
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:59,399
Speaker 12: To some of the top politicians in the Lone Star State.

1072
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 11: The conspiracy theory Jones described on his Info War show

1073
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 11: spun in even wilder directions. The Army troops participating in

1074
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 11: the jade Helm military exercise, panicked right wingers said, would

1075
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 11: turn on the local population. Guns would be seized from

1076
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:18,359
Speaker 11: private citizens, and local walmarts would be converted into vast

1077
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:22,839
Speaker 11: holding cells where those opposing Obama's plan to seize dictatorial

1078
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:26,840
Speaker 11: power would be imprisoned. According to these sorts of theories,

1079
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 11: these accusations went viral, and a military spokesman got waylaid

1080
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 11: by angry questions At a Bastrop County Commissioner's Court meeting

1081
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:37,279
Speaker 11: held near the Central Texas staging area for jade Helm.

1082
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 11: Armed men in trucks patrolled in Bastrup County and surrounding communities,

1083
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 11: and a private group called Counter jade Helm spied on

1084
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 11: the movement of troops and military vehicles while they quizzed

1085
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 11: residents for any intelligence they may have gathered on the

1086
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:53,840
Speaker 11: impending alleged coup d'eta.

1087
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 10: The crazier the conspiracy theory got, the more Texas's far

1088
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 10: right political leaders were willing to pander to Jones and

1089
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 10: his elk. Texas Governor Greg Abbott ordered the Texas National

1090
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 10: Guard to monitor US Army troops near Austin.

1091
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 7: We're playing a pivotal role of government, and that is

1092
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:17,280
Speaker 7: to provide information until people have questions.

1093
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:21,240
Speaker 10: Texas Senator Ted Cruz pledged that he would demand answers

1094
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 10: from the Pentagon about the military's intentions, and said he

1095
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 10: completely understood the widespread paranoia.

1096
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 3: You know, I understand the.

1097
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 13: Concern that's been raised by a lot of citizens about

1098
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 13: Jade Hell.

1099
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 3: We have seen for six.

1100
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 14: Years a federal government disrespecting the liberty of the citizens,

1101
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 14: and that produces fever.

1102
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 10: Suffice it to say, the Obama administration did not overthrow

1103
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 10: the state government. The intense outrage and fear generated over

1104
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 10: army combat preparations might have seen perplexing to those outside

1105
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 10: of Texas, a state that prides itself on being patriotic

1106
00:56:55,920 --> 00:57:00,800
Speaker 10: and pro military. However, seething distrust of liberal elites is

1107
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 10: a lucrative business in Texas. Alex Jones built a fortune

1108
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 10: of two hundred and seventy million with his Internet show

1109
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,719
Speaker 10: and sales of dubious health and survivalist products advertised on

1110
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:15,319
Speaker 10: those broadcasts. This is nothing new south of the Red River.

1111
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,080
Speaker 10: From the beginning of its history, the state has been

1112
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 10: an incubator for outlandish and occasionally not completely unreasonable conspiracy theories.

1113
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 11: After Texas violently separated from Mexico in eighteen thirty six,

1114
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:32,080
Speaker 11: white Texans spent the next decade fearing their southern neighbor,

1115
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 11: a nation that saw the Texas Revolution as illegitimate and

1116
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:40,480
Speaker 11: wanted to regain control of the breakaway province. Meanwhile, those

1117
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 11: same white Texans viewed the African Americans they enslaved with

1118
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 11: suspicion bordering on dread, knowing that their black captives desperately

1119
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 11: wanted freedom and might use violence to liberate themselves. This

1120
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 11: created an atmosphere of uncertainty and distrust that fed conspiracy

1121
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 11: theories of all sorts. After their rebellion against Mexico, Texans

1122
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 11: won to become part of the United States, but they

1123
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:04,240
Speaker 11: were forced to spend almost a full decade as an

1124
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 11: independent republic because of well founded suspicions held by American

1125
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 11: abolitionists that the Texas Revolution was a part of a

1126
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 11: plot to add a slave state to the Union.

1127
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 10: A decade later, the tide shifted and Texas was hurriedly

1128
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:22,920
Speaker 10: annexed in eighteen forty five after widespread rumors gripped Washington

1129
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:25,800
Speaker 10: d c of a British plot to an next Texas

1130
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 10: and converted to a haven for African Americans escaping slavery.

1131
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 10: In the eighteen fifties, even prominent Texans like Sam Houston

1132
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 10: flocked to the American Party, also known as the know Nothings,

1133
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 10: that claimed the Pope had ordered Catholics from Ireland Germany

1134
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,960
Speaker 10: to immigrate to the United States in order to take

1135
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 10: the country over and hand power over to the Vatican Panics.

1136
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 10: O were suspected rebellions by the enslaved, gripped Anglo Texans

1137
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 10: in eighteen thirty five, eighteen thirty eight, eighteen forty one,

1138
00:58:56,480 --> 00:58:59,440
Speaker 10: and in eighteen fifty six went perhaps as many as

1139
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 10: four hundred African Americans held in Bondage and Colorado County

1140
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 10: in south central Texas apparently plotted to rise up against

1141
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 10: their white oppressors and battle their way to freedom. In Mexico,

1142
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 10: where slavery had been abolished.

1143
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:17,479
Speaker 11: Eighteen sixty, construction workers carelessly tossed matches into a pile

1144
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 11: of wood in Dallas during a hot, drought ridden summer.

1145
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:24,400
Speaker 11: The blaze that resulted destroyed much of what was then

1146
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 11: only a village. Immediately, suspecting that enslaved arsonists had set

1147
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:31,520
Speaker 11: the fire as part of a planned revolution, whites in

1148
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 11: Dallas tortured and whipped almost every enslaved person in the

1149
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 11: county in search of scapegoats. Eventually, they hanged three African

1150
00:59:38,560 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 11: Americans and set off what would become known as the

1151
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 11: Texas Troubles. Fires broke out across the state, and each

1152
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:48,000
Speaker 11: got blamed on black suspects and their supposed white abolitionists.

1153
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 11: Instigators often men from northern states. As one historian put it,

1154
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:55,919
Speaker 11: white Texan enslavers decided it was better to quote hang

1155
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 11: ninety nine innocent men than to let one guilty pass.

1156
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 11: Acting on little evidence, mobs lynched as many as eighty

1157
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 11: enslaved African American men and thirty seven accused white abolitionists.

1158
01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 11: By the time the panic burned out in September.

1159
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 10: A wave of labor unrest, including the Great Southwest Railroad

1160
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:17,600
Speaker 10: Strike of eighteen eighty six and the rise of the

1161
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 10: Populace movement, which called for the government seizure railroads and

1162
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:25,160
Speaker 10: telegraph lines, in addition to a global panic amongst the

1163
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 10: well to do about anarchism. After a series of bombings

1164
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 10: in Europe and even the United States from the eighteen

1165
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:34,560
Speaker 10: eighties to just after World War One convinced economic elites

1166
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 10: in Texas that revolution was in the air. The ku

1167
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 10: Klux Klan, which in its original incarnation during reconstruction served

1168
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 10: as a goon squad to keep newly freed African American

1169
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 10: labor under tight control, came to dominate cities like Dallas

1170
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 10: in the nineteen twenties, where one and every three eligible

1171
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 10: men were members.

1172
01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 3: Of the KKK.

1173
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 10: At its peak, the KKK charged that both Jews and

1174
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 10: Catholics were conspired hiring to control the world. Texas politicians

1175
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:06,680
Speaker 10: like Representative John Box of Texas, in a column in

1176
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 10: Henry Ford's anti Semitic newspaper The Dearborn Independent, charged that

1177
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:14,960
Speaker 10: Jews had manipulated the Congress. They add loopholes to American

1178
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 10: immigration laws passed in nineteen twenty one nineteen twenty four

1179
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 10: in order to let Jewish people escaping the Russian Empire

1180
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 10: into the United States as part of a scheme to

1181
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 10: undermine American society.

1182
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 11: As oil millionaires and billionaires built their wealth over the

1183
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 11: twentieth century, they became a force in conspiratorial faw right

1184
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 11: politics in Texas. Starting in the nineteen thirties, they mobilized

1185
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 11: against Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal, which they insisted was a

1186
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:44,439
Speaker 11: part of an international communist plan to overthrow capitalism around

1187
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 11: the planet. Anti communism, anti Semitism, and hostility to the

1188
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:52,040
Speaker 11: post World War II African American civil rights movement blended

1189
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 11: seamlessly in the conspiratorial imaginations of the fall right, in

1190
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:59,400
Speaker 11: the lone Star State, ideas that reached a national audience

1191
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 11: in large part because of oil money.

1192
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 10: John Owen Beatty, the longtime chairman of the English Department's

1193
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 10: Southern Methodist University in Dallas, in nineteen fifty one, authored

1194
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 10: one of the first and perhaps the best selling of

1195
01:02:12,680 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 10: all time, book promoting Holocaust denial Iron Curtain over America.

1196
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 10: Beatty claimed that the Jews of today were not the

1197
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:24,960
Speaker 10: Hebrew heroes of what Christians called the Old Testament. Instead,

1198
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 10: they were descended from a sinister Asian trot called the

1199
01:02:28,040 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 10: Kazars that converted his Judaism around the year eight hundred,

1200
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 10: too arrogant to assimilate with Christian Europe, Baty wrote Kazar's

1201
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 10: undermined society under their stolen identities and caused the Communist

1202
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 10: Revolution in Russian nineteen eighteen. After immigrating to the United

1203
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 10: States in large numbers, they took over the Democratic Party,

1204
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 10: Batty said, and moved it to the radical left. Beatty

1205
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:56,920
Speaker 10: also claimed that Jews controlled Franklin Roosevelt's administration and pushed

1206
01:02:56,920 --> 01:03:00,320
Speaker 10: it into war against Hitler's Germany, which Beatty discribed in

1207
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 10: his book as quote the historic bulwark of Christian Europe,

1208
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:07,360
Speaker 10: a mere six years after Soviet and American troops that

1209
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:11,280
Speaker 10: liberated Nazi concentration camps. Betty claimed that most of the

1210
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 10: victims there died from disease and the Holocaust was a

1211
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:18,200
Speaker 10: fraud used after nineteen forty eight to blackmail the West

1212
01:03:18,240 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 10: into political and financial support of Israel. The SMU professor

1213
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 10: urged the United States to expel Jews from the United States.

1214
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:30,040
Speaker 11: Rather than earning him scorn. Bed's virulently hateful anti Jewish

1215
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:33,440
Speaker 11: rants won him a large following his book, Iron Curtain

1216
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:36,560
Speaker 11: Over America went through nine printings. By nineteen fifty three,

1217
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:41,520
Speaker 11: the Public Affairs Luncheon Club, a women's organization, adopted a

1218
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 11: unanimous resolution backing BAT and requesting that SMU investigate alleged

1219
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 11: communist influence on the university's faculty politics and values. Bed

1220
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:54,400
Speaker 11: taught at SMU until his retirement in nineteen fifty seven,

1221
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 11: two years after a panic over allegedly read art during

1222
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 11: which the conservative Dallas Patriotic Council accused the Dallas Museum

1223
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 11: of Art of intentionally promoting quote subversive artists who were

1224
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 11: ostensibly part of communist front groups connected to the Soviet

1225
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:11,200
Speaker 11: Union after.

1226
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 10: World War Two in the establishment of communist regimes in

1227
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:17,120
Speaker 10: Eastern Europe and in China. The uber wealthy giants of

1228
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 10: the Texas oil industry, to a large degree, funded what

1229
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 10: came to be known as McCarthyism. Clinton murchison, whose son

1230
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 10: in nineteen sixty became owner of the Dallas Cowboys National

1231
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:32,360
Speaker 10: Football League team, became one of the largest financial contributors

1232
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 10: to red baiting Senator Joe McCarthy of Wisconsin. In Houston,

1233
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 10: hard right organizations like the Minute Women Fought Against School

1234
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 10: Integration took over the school board firing the assistant superintendent,

1235
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 10: George eBay because he previously lived in California and Oregon,

1236
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 10: where he had nice things to say about Roosevelt's new

1237
01:04:51,360 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 10: deal in the African American freedom struggle. A math instructor

1238
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:58,520
Speaker 10: got fired after he carelessly common in a teacher's lounge.

1239
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:03,320
Speaker 10: They supported Adleae's Stevenson, the Liberal Democratic Party nominee for president.

1240
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 10: In nineteen fifty two and nineteen fifty six, Theston School

1241
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 10: Board yanked books from campus libraries that said positive things

1242
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:14,240
Speaker 10: about the United Nations, while right wingers in Dallas force

1243
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:17,040
Speaker 10: the City Library and the Museum of Fine Arts the

1244
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:21,320
Speaker 10: demand artists like Diego Rivera and Pablo Picasso because of

1245
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 10: their supposed communist sympathies.

1246
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 3: But before we get into that quick ad break.

1247
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 11: One Dallas oil magnate who built a mansion intentionally designed

1248
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:44,040
Speaker 11: to be a bigger duplicate of George Washington's Mount Vernon estate.

1249
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:47,840
Speaker 11: He used his wealth to broadcast extremist fever dreams in

1250
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 11: the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties. His name was hl Hunt,

1251
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 11: and he was profiled by the BBC in the nineteen sixties.

1252
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:57,080
Speaker 8: But as well as being perhaps the most approval. The

1253
01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 8: most stingy plutocrat of Texas, HL Hunt is probably the

1254
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:03,480
Speaker 8: most controversial, for he is a fervent advocate of right

1255
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 8: wing some would say reactionary causes. He is against the UN,

1256
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:11,160
Speaker 8: against the War on Party, against Medicare, against central government

1257
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 8: aid of any sort. He would rather Washington didn't rule

1258
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:17,000
Speaker 8: the United States at all, and in his ideal land,

1259
01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:19,560
Speaker 8: votes would be distributed according to the amount of taxes

1260
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 8: who paid more than most Texans. Even he is inclined

1261
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:26,240
Speaker 8: to see communists under every couch and behind every curtain.

1262
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:30,800
Speaker 8: To Hunt, mankind is divided into communists and constructives. His

1263
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 8: private word for anti communists, you are either for him morroganim.

1264
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 15: He brooks no halfway position.

1265
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:41,560
Speaker 11: A health baddist who avoided whitebread and sugar, Hunt believed

1266
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:44,400
Speaker 11: his diet of largely raw vegetables might actually allow him

1267
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:48,560
Speaker 11: to achieve immortality. He also thought he had psychic abilities,

1268
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 11: lived as a secret bigamist, and published pamphlets such as

1269
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 11: Hitler was a Liberal, an early prototype of Rupert Murdoch

1270
01:06:56,760 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 11: and Elon Musk. Hunt tried to create an alternative right

1271
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 11: wing media infrastructure, funding a nationwide radio program and pamphlet

1272
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 11: subscription called Lifeline that promoted conspiracy theories from coast to coast.

1273
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:11,840
Speaker 15: Didn't time for last time.

1274
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 3: Let the tective class is around the world.

1275
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:19,080
Speaker 16: Every leftist praise and cliche of the past half cent

1276
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:22,160
Speaker 16: three now has the hollow ring of mythology.

1277
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 7: This is freedom Talk number fifty three Brendy.

1278
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 16: Cup is all available at the rate of three for

1279
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:31,880
Speaker 16: twenty five cents from Lifeline, Dallas, Texas seven five two

1280
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:32,360
Speaker 16: o six.

1281
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:34,760
Speaker 7: I'll be back after this message.

1282
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:35,240
Speaker 4: From our sponsor.

1283
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 10: The Lifeline show was hosted by a former FBI agent

1284
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:42,440
Speaker 10: named Dan Smoot and broadcasts on more than eighty television

1285
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:46,680
Speaker 10: one hundred and fifty radio stations. Hunt believed that democracy

1286
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:49,440
Speaker 10: was the instrument through which wealth would be seized from

1287
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 10: billionaires such mself and redistributed to the lazy and the worthless.

1288
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:58,040
Speaker 10: Hunt once rage at Smoot when the Lifeline hosts claimed

1289
01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:01,920
Speaker 10: on air that democracy was political outgrowth of the teachings

1290
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 10: of Jesus Christ, Hunt corrected Smooth, condemning democracy is the

1291
01:08:06,760 --> 01:08:10,160
Speaker 10: handwork of the devil in a phony liberal form of

1292
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:13,840
Speaker 10: watered down communism. Hunt innovated in number of ways to

1293
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:17,919
Speaker 10: alarm audiences about far left plots during.

1294
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:20,639
Speaker 8: The last two years, hl Hunt has added another emotive

1295
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 8: missile to his armory, his league of so called youth

1296
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 8: freedom speakers, engaging young teenagers drilled to deliver three minute

1297
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:31,679
Speaker 8: bursts of his propaganda to rotary clubs and Bible classes.

1298
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:35,840
Speaker 9: Many people in the United States really don't believe that

1299
01:08:36,000 --> 01:08:40,040
Speaker 9: communism is a serious threat. Well, these people are in

1300
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 9: for a big shock because the communists have every intention

1301
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 9: of doing exactly what they've said they'll do, and they

1302
01:08:48,240 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 9: do not hesitate to use force and violence anytime they

1303
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:52,479
Speaker 9: think that it.

1304
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:56,320
Speaker 17: Will further their cause. Now, I don't pretend to know

1305
01:08:56,439 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 17: all the answers, but I do know that it is

1306
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:05,080
Speaker 17: our duty to get out and warn others of the

1307
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:08,240
Speaker 17: serious threat that we are facing. We have got to

1308
01:09:08,320 --> 01:09:10,800
Speaker 17: get out and tell others of the subversive movements that

1309
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:13,639
Speaker 17: are going on right here under our very own noses.

1310
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:17,600
Speaker 18: It's time to do away with this attitude. Oh, it

1311
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 18: can't happen here. Will communists bury us? Will we face

1312
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:26,040
Speaker 18: fine squad as in Cuba? And will our little bitty

1313
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:33,120
Speaker 18: children become slaves? Ladies and gentlemen. The answer rests in

1314
01:09:33,160 --> 01:09:36,160
Speaker 18: the hands of you and others like you.

1315
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 15: Thank you.

1316
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:43,439
Speaker 11: For much of the twentieth century, Dallas had built up

1317
01:09:43,439 --> 01:09:47,719
Speaker 11: a reputation as a clean, dull, modern, and efficiently run city.

1318
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,000
Speaker 11: By the nineteen fifties, however, it had also acquired a

1319
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 11: reputation as the capital of crackpots and conspiracy theorists, a

1320
01:09:55,280 --> 01:09:59,760
Speaker 11: development that historian Edward H. Miller would describe in his

1321
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:04,479
Speaker 11: book Not to Country. In nineteen fifty four, Dallas elected

1322
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:08,680
Speaker 11: a far right House representative, Republican Bruce Alger. Less than

1323
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:11,439
Speaker 11: a week prior to the nineteen sixty presidential election between

1324
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:15,080
Speaker 11: John Kennedy and Richard Nixon, a pro Alger mob assaulted

1325
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:18,439
Speaker 11: in spat on the Democratic vice presidential nominee and then

1326
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:22,680
Speaker 11: Texas Senator Lyndon Johnson and his wife, Ladybird, as they

1327
01:10:22,800 --> 01:10:27,200
Speaker 11: left the Adolphus Hotel in downtown Dallas. Alger joined the protesters,

1328
01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:31,080
Speaker 11: who held signs with slogans that said LBJ sold out

1329
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 11: to Yankee socialists. Soon thereafter, Major General Edwin Walker, who

1330
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:39,560
Speaker 11: inspired the deranged fictional character General Jack d Ripper, the

1331
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 11: person responsible for global nuclear holocaust in the nineteen sixty

1332
01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:46,320
Speaker 11: four film at Doctor Strangelove, called Dallas Home.

1333
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 14: I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration,

1334
01:10:52,479 --> 01:10:59,960
Speaker 14: Communist in doctor nation, communist subversion, and the International Commune

1335
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:07,759
Speaker 14: conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

1336
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:12,679
Speaker 11: Before filmmaker Stanley Kubrick turned Walker into an unforgettable caricature,

1337
01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:17,120
Speaker 11: the real life Walker achieved infamy commanding an infantry division

1338
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:21,200
Speaker 11: in what was then Western Germany. President Kennedy pressured Walker

1339
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:24,479
Speaker 11: to resign because he repeatedly lectured soldiers under his command

1340
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:27,760
Speaker 11: to vote for far right wing political candidates. He also

1341
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:31,839
Speaker 11: distributed among the troops literature from the conspiracy theory promoting

1342
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:35,280
Speaker 11: far right John Birch Society, and he encouraged them to join.

1343
01:11:36,040 --> 01:11:39,919
Speaker 11: The John Birch Society, formed in nineteen fifty eight, opposed

1344
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 11: American membership in the United Nations, which it claimed was

1345
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:47,360
Speaker 11: part of a global communist conspiracy to enslave free peoples

1346
01:11:47,680 --> 01:11:51,760
Speaker 11: around the world. The fringe organization, established by former candy

1347
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:56,879
Speaker 11: manufacturer Robert Welsh, accused all American presidents from Franklin Roosevelt

1348
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:00,320
Speaker 11: to Kennedy of being secret communists under the command of

1349
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:01,360
Speaker 11: the Soviet government.

1350
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:05,519
Speaker 10: The John Birch Society also saw the African American Civil

1351
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 10: rights movement as part of a Bolshevik conspiracy to divide

1352
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:12,479
Speaker 10: the country, and argued that efforts of towns and cities

1353
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:15,439
Speaker 10: after World War II to add fluoride to public water

1354
01:12:15,560 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 10: supplies was part of a sinister scheme to weaken men

1355
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 10: physically and make them less able to resist the radical

1356
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:26,599
Speaker 10: takeover the United States. That particular Bircher conspiracy theory made

1357
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:30,720
Speaker 10: a long lasting impact on the American psyche. Cities across

1358
01:12:30,840 --> 01:12:34,720
Speaker 10: the United States banned fluoridated water today. That John Birch

1359
01:12:34,800 --> 01:12:38,360
Speaker 10: Society is still active in North Texas, where recent gubernatorial

1360
01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:42,680
Speaker 10: candidate and car dealer Don Huffines has published anti floridation

1361
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:46,600
Speaker 10: essays on The Dallas Express, a right wing website that

1362
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:49,960
Speaker 10: repurposed the name of historic black newspaper that went defunct

1363
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:51,240
Speaker 10: in the nineteen seventies.

1364
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 11: Edwin Walker's devotion to the John Birch movement cost him

1365
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:59,400
Speaker 11: his military career. Under pressure from Defense Secretary Robert mcmara,

1366
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:03,439
Speaker 11: Walker retired and moved to Dallas, where he found a

1367
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 11: friendly political environment. The national far right saw him as

1368
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:10,760
Speaker 11: a martyr to Kennedy's supposedly out of control leftism, and

1369
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:14,439
Speaker 11: he received financial support from fellow devotee of the John

1370
01:13:14,479 --> 01:13:19,400
Speaker 11: Birch Society hl Hunt. In nineteen sixty one, Walker made

1371
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 11: the cover of Newsweek as a leader of the New Right,

1372
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:25,400
Speaker 11: and in nineteen sixty two he entered the race for

1373
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:26,320
Speaker 11: Texas governor.

1374
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:31,120
Speaker 7: To all victims of communist tyranny throughout the world, I

1375
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:35,480
Speaker 7: send this word the hour of your deliverance is approaching.

1376
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:40,960
Speaker 7: To patriots in every land Korea, China, the Ukraine, the

1377
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:46,600
Speaker 7: Baltic Nations, Poland, Hungary, East Germany, the Congo, Cuba, and

1378
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:50,559
Speaker 7: every other land strickened by the monster of communism. I say,

1379
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:55,799
Speaker 7: for the time, lie low, preparing your hearts for liberation.

1380
01:13:56,479 --> 01:14:00,320
Speaker 7: Do not expose yourselves to the brutal requital of a hunster.

1381
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:05,320
Speaker 10: Temporarily in power, Walker was a painfully dull public speaker.

1382
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:08,240
Speaker 10: In the end, he couldn't bring his version of deliverance

1383
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:11,479
Speaker 10: to his own state, finishing a distant sixth in the

1384
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:15,439
Speaker 10: nineteen sixty two coubinatorial race. That would not prevent him

1385
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:18,439
Speaker 10: and his allies from creating mayhem over the following months.

1386
01:14:19,040 --> 01:14:22,480
Speaker 10: He got arrested and was ordered to be psychiatrically evaluated

1387
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:26,519
Speaker 10: by Attorney General Robert Kennedy after he incited racial violence

1388
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:30,000
Speaker 10: during the integration of the University of Mississippi. In September

1389
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:35,000
Speaker 10: nineteen sixty two, Adelaide Stevenson, John Kennedy's ambassador of the

1390
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:37,920
Speaker 10: United Nations, would confront Walker and a model of his

1391
01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:41,800
Speaker 10: followers when the diplomat visited Big d on October twenty sixth,

1392
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:45,799
Speaker 10: nineteen sixty three. Stevenson was shoutowed down as he attempted

1393
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:49,160
Speaker 10: to deliver a un day's speech to Dallas Council on

1394
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 10: World Affairs.

1395
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:05,200
Speaker 15: Shall we get on with the business of the meeting?

1396
01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:19,720
Speaker 19: Surely, surely, my dear friend, I don't have to come

1397
01:15:19,800 --> 01:15:21,840
Speaker 19: here from Illinois to teach Texas.

1398
01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:22,240
Speaker 7: Mantors, do I.

1399
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:28,960
Speaker 11: Outside Memorial Auditorium theater, where Stevenson delivered his speech, Walker

1400
01:15:29,040 --> 01:15:31,479
Speaker 11: had gathered a furious gang of middle and upper class

1401
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:34,960
Speaker 11: men and women who rocked his limousine back and forth

1402
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:37,720
Speaker 11: while it waited to whisk him away to safety, and

1403
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:41,439
Speaker 11: surrounded the ambassador when he stepped outside. When he finally

1404
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:45,320
Speaker 11: returned to Washington, d C, Stevenson warned the administration about

1405
01:15:45,320 --> 01:15:49,240
Speaker 11: the intense and extremist atmosphere in Dallas, where President Kennedy

1406
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:51,960
Speaker 11: was planning a visit meant to heal a rift between

1407
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:55,879
Speaker 11: the conservative and liberal wings of the Democratic Party in Texas.

1408
01:15:56,520 --> 01:15:59,439
Speaker 10: On the morning in November twenty second, nineteen sixty three,

1409
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:03,800
Speaker 10: Kennedy and his entourage felt foreboding as they prepared for

1410
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:07,360
Speaker 10: a short airplane draft from Fort Worth to Dallas. The

1411
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:09,960
Speaker 10: president just examined a full page ad in the far

1412
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:13,640
Speaker 10: right Dallas Morning News that featured a bold face headline

1413
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:18,840
Speaker 10: welcome mister Kennedy to Dallas. The advertisement, paid for in

1414
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:22,080
Speaker 10: part by H. L. Hunt's son Nelson bunker Hunt and

1415
01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:25,759
Speaker 10: the future owner of the Dallas Cowboys. HR bum Bright,

1416
01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:30,519
Speaker 10: featured accusations that Kennedy was soft on communism around the

1417
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:35,479
Speaker 10: world and radicals at home, while persecuting conservatives who criticized him.

1418
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:39,479
Speaker 10: The same morning, a group distributed leaflets designed like a

1419
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:42,839
Speaker 10: wanted poster, with front and side photos of the President

1420
01:16:42,920 --> 01:16:47,120
Speaker 10: with the caption wanted for treason. How can people say

1421
01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:50,479
Speaker 10: such things? The President said to first Lady Jackie Kennedy,

1422
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:52,439
Speaker 10: We're heading into nut country.

1423
01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:53,120
Speaker 4: Soon.

1424
01:16:53,160 --> 01:16:55,720
Speaker 10: The Kennedys would make their faithful flight to Dallas, and

1425
01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:59,439
Speaker 10: the President would die from an assassin's bullet shortly after noon.

1426
01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:04,120
Speaker 11: The President's murder spawned a cottage industry of conspiracy theorists.

1427
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:07,639
Speaker 11: Some said the president had been murdered by the mafia,

1428
01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:11,040
Speaker 11: angered because they had been investigated by the president's brother,

1429
01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:15,679
Speaker 11: Attorney General Robert Kennedy. Others blamed Teamster's president Jimmy Hoffa,

1430
01:17:16,080 --> 01:17:18,559
Speaker 11: who also had been the subject of criminal probes by

1431
01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:23,439
Speaker 11: the Justice Department. Others suspected assassination plotters included Cuban leader

1432
01:17:23,479 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 11: Fidel Castro, who had himself been targeted for assassination attempts

1433
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:32,320
Speaker 11: by the Kennedy administration, exiled Cubans in Florida, angered because

1434
01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:35,400
Speaker 11: the president had not fully supported the attempted overthrow of

1435
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:39,000
Speaker 11: Castro during the nineteen sixty one Bay of Pigs invasion,

1436
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 11: and even the Soviets. One of the more elaborate theories

1437
01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:47,280
Speaker 11: involved an alleged plot hatched by American military leaders and

1438
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:52,519
Speaker 11: CIA agents, angered that Kennedy supposedly wanted to end American

1439
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:56,840
Speaker 11: involvement in Vietnam. Finally, others said Lyndon Johnson order to

1440
01:17:56,960 --> 01:17:59,679
Speaker 11: hit on the Chief executive because he wanted to grab

1441
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:03,600
Speaker 11: or maybe others said Kennedy died because of combination of

1442
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:07,479
Speaker 11: some or all of the above, having made enemies with

1443
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:11,479
Speaker 11: the intelligence agencies under his command, who he had said

1444
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:14,600
Speaker 11: he would dash to the wins if they continued to

1445
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:17,600
Speaker 11: do things that were against what he saws in the

1446
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:21,280
Speaker 11: best interests of the United States. Quote President shot one

1447
01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:25,200
Speaker 11: hundred twenty nine times from forty three different angles. A

1448
01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:27,240
Speaker 11: satirical headline from The Onion later.

1449
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:31,960
Speaker 10: Asserted sometimes conspiracy theories have deadly consequences.

1450
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:33,560
Speaker 3: William L.

1451
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:37,519
Speaker 10: Pierre spent his teen years attending a military academy in Dallas.

1452
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:42,200
Speaker 10: As a city student, anti communist dread and any Semitic hatred.

1453
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:45,080
Speaker 10: As a young adult, he had joined the John Birch Society,

1454
01:18:45,439 --> 01:18:49,240
Speaker 10: but grew frustrated because there wasn't racist enough. He became

1455
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:52,120
Speaker 10: a leading figure in the American Nazi Party at the

1456
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:55,600
Speaker 10: age of forty one, formed the Neo Nazi National Alliance.

1457
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:59,160
Speaker 10: Beginning in nineteen seventy five, he published in serial form

1458
01:19:00,080 --> 01:19:04,519
Speaker 10: us influential examples of white supremacist literature, The Turner Diaries,

1459
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:07,360
Speaker 10: a novel which told the story of white nationalist revolution

1460
01:19:07,439 --> 01:19:10,559
Speaker 10: in the United States in the near future. This revolt

1461
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:15,240
Speaker 10: is sparked by a Jewish authored law outlying private ownership

1462
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:19,960
Speaker 10: of guns. The hero Earl Turner, joins an underground terrorist

1463
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 10: army the organization, which battles a Jewish plot to destroy

1464
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:27,760
Speaker 10: America not just through gun control, but also through uncontrolled

1465
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:31,639
Speaker 10: non white immigration and by using rock music and drugs

1466
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 10: to encourage interracial sects. At one point, to save the

1467
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:39,559
Speaker 10: white race, Turner blows up the FBI National headquarters in Washington,

1468
01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:40,880
Speaker 10: d C. With a truck bomb.

1469
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:45,240
Speaker 11: In the novel, racist revolutionaries then take over Vandenberg Air

1470
01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:49,080
Speaker 11: Force Base in southern California and sees its nuclear missiles,

1471
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:53,320
Speaker 11: which they later use on cities across the nation while

1472
01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:57,240
Speaker 11: ethnically cleansing California of non whites. They hang sixty thousand

1473
01:19:57,360 --> 01:20:00,800
Speaker 11: so called race traders during the day of the Rope,

1474
01:20:01,160 --> 01:20:03,439
Speaker 11: a phrase you may find familiar if you've ever looked

1475
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:06,960
Speaker 11: at white supremacist posts online. In the end, the book's hero,

1476
01:20:07,120 --> 01:20:10,920
Speaker 11: Earl Turner, finally defeats the system by flying a crop

1477
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:14,160
Speaker 11: duster armed with a small nuclear weapon into the pedagon.

1478
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:18,040
Speaker 10: White nationalists have since seen the Turner Diaries as both

1479
01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:20,920
Speaker 10: an accurate description of the modern world and as a

1480
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:24,559
Speaker 10: manual on how to win a race war. From nineteen

1481
01:20:24,600 --> 01:20:27,360
Speaker 10: eighty three to nineteen eighty four, The Order a white

1482
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:31,240
Speaker 10: supremacist terrorist group that took its name from the Secret Circle.

1483
01:20:31,320 --> 01:20:36,519
Speaker 10: The fictional Earl Turner joins robbed a pornography shop, banks,

1484
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:40,000
Speaker 10: and armored cars, hoisting more than eight million dollars. They

1485
01:20:40,080 --> 01:20:43,599
Speaker 10: later distributed to several white supremacist groups with the intent

1486
01:20:43,680 --> 01:20:47,320
Speaker 10: of funding a white revolution. Along the way, they assassinated

1487
01:20:47,439 --> 01:20:51,439
Speaker 10: Jewish radio talk show hosts Alan Berg. The Turner Diary

1488
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:55,480
Speaker 10: became the favorite novel of Timothy McVeigh, a bitter, disgruntled

1489
01:20:55,560 --> 01:20:58,439
Speaker 10: veteran in the nineteen ninety one Gulf War who saw

1490
01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:01,280
Speaker 10: the deadly confrontation between in the FBI and the Bureau

1491
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:05,120
Speaker 10: of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and the gun toting branch Davidian

1492
01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:09,160
Speaker 10: religious sect in Waco, Texas on April nineteenth, nineteen ninety three,

1493
01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:12,040
Speaker 10: as a major step and a government plan to seize

1494
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:14,560
Speaker 10: firearms from law abiding Americans.

1495
01:21:15,120 --> 01:21:18,280
Speaker 11: McVay had spent years selling copies of The Turner Diaries

1496
01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:21,559
Speaker 11: at gun shows. He retaliated against what he saw as

1497
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:24,960
Speaker 11: his government oppressors by blowing up the Alfred Murrah Federal

1498
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:28,360
Speaker 11: Building in Oklahoma City on the second anniversary of the

1499
01:21:28,479 --> 01:21:32,120
Speaker 11: Waco configuration. He used a truck bomb facing his attack

1500
01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:35,560
Speaker 11: in part on the fictitious bombings of the FBI headquarters.

1501
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:39,680
Speaker 11: In William Pierce's novel The Turner Diaries also depicted a

1502
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:43,200
Speaker 11: deadly attack on the US Capitol. Some of the pro

1503
01:21:43,320 --> 01:21:46,960
Speaker 11: Trump riots who assaulted the Capitol on January sixth erected

1504
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:51,240
Speaker 11: gallows and livestreamed their crimes as they joked about hanging politicians,

1505
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:54,280
Speaker 11: comparing it to the day of rope, Pierce described in

1506
01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:57,400
Speaker 11: his pro Nazi work of fiction, Stay with Us through

1507
01:21:57,439 --> 01:21:58,639
Speaker 11: this adbreak to learn more.

1508
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:11,960
Speaker 10: Kennedy was a classic Cold War liberal in support of

1509
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:16,320
Speaker 10: an aggressive military intervention to stop Communist expansion abroad, and

1510
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:20,679
Speaker 10: with varying degrees, a commitment economic and civil rights reforms

1511
01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:24,360
Speaker 10: at home. But because of his assassination by the twenty

1512
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:27,240
Speaker 10: first century, many on the far right saw as a

1513
01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:31,600
Speaker 10: martyr to the liberal deep state. Beginning in twenty seventeen,

1514
01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:35,880
Speaker 10: a very online far right conspiracy theory arose that centered

1515
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:39,679
Speaker 10: on cryptic messages first posted on the four chan message

1516
01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:42,880
Speaker 10: board and then on eight chan by an anonymous person

1517
01:22:42,920 --> 01:22:46,960
Speaker 10: who identified themselves as Q. The pseudonym was a reference

1518
01:22:47,080 --> 01:22:51,240
Speaker 10: to the Q Clearance, which gives government officials access to

1519
01:22:51,439 --> 01:22:55,000
Speaker 10: high level security secrets. Kennedy would be central in the

1520
01:22:55,080 --> 01:22:58,920
Speaker 10: imagination of what came to be known as the QAnon movement.

1521
01:22:59,400 --> 01:23:03,840
Speaker 11: Q or QAnon developed a huge following that interpreted these

1522
01:23:03,960 --> 01:23:08,839
Speaker 11: confusing and often contradictory posts as actually revealing a secret

1523
01:23:08,960 --> 01:23:13,000
Speaker 11: global capal that included top Democrats like Hillary Clinton and

1524
01:23:13,160 --> 01:23:16,719
Speaker 11: liberal celebrities like Tom Hanks. These people were all accused

1525
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:19,320
Speaker 11: of being a part of a child sex trafficking ring

1526
01:23:19,400 --> 01:23:22,479
Speaker 11: in which the young victims were molested and tortured, and,

1527
01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:26,280
Speaker 11: in some interpretations of the theories, had their precious bodily

1528
01:23:26,360 --> 01:23:31,880
Speaker 11: fluids harvested to manufacture a drug known as adrenochrome, a

1529
01:23:31,960 --> 01:23:36,639
Speaker 11: drug that produces hallucinations and supposedly grants eternal youth. These

1530
01:23:36,760 --> 01:23:41,519
Speaker 11: stories resembled anti Semitic legends about Jews kidnapping Christian children

1531
01:23:41,560 --> 01:23:45,000
Speaker 11: before passover in order to use their blood in Manza bread,

1532
01:23:45,760 --> 01:23:49,360
Speaker 11: a trope or canard really that has become known as

1533
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:53,720
Speaker 11: blood libel in the QAnon mythology. Donald Trump plans to

1534
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:58,600
Speaker 11: conduct mass arrests and executions of these Satanic child molestors

1535
01:23:58,640 --> 01:24:02,320
Speaker 11: in an event called the Storm. Trump has winked and

1536
01:24:02,479 --> 01:24:05,680
Speaker 11: nodded to the q and On movement, encouraged believers and

1537
01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:09,800
Speaker 11: even incorporated some of its key slogans in imagery in

1538
01:24:10,200 --> 01:24:13,760
Speaker 11: speeches and posts online, such as where we go On,

1539
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:17,000
Speaker 11: we go All, and as I've reported for Rolling Stone,

1540
01:24:17,560 --> 01:24:20,200
Speaker 11: a cult like spinoff group of Q and On believers

1541
01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:24,559
Speaker 11: have repeatedly gathered at Daley Plaza, the site of JFK's murder,

1542
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:27,920
Speaker 11: to wait for the prophesied return of JFK and his son,

1543
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:33,679
Speaker 11: JFK Junior, who both are dead, but these believers think

1544
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:38,280
Speaker 11: were either miraculously resurrected or never actually died, and have

1545
01:24:38,400 --> 01:24:42,480
Speaker 11: been secretly working with Trump to take down the aforementioned

1546
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:48,040
Speaker 11: global satanic pedophile cabal. Some believe that when JFK and

1547
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:50,880
Speaker 11: JFK Junior finally reveal themselves, a sort of kingdom of

1548
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:54,800
Speaker 11: righteousness will reign and good will ultimately prevail over evil.

1549
01:24:55,360 --> 01:24:57,800
Speaker 10: Q and On believers were a heavy presence during the

1550
01:24:57,880 --> 01:25:03,519
Speaker 10: Capital Insurrection in January sixth and q Andon banners competed

1551
01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:08,320
Speaker 10: with Trump and Confederate battleflags for attention, and November that

1552
01:25:08,439 --> 01:25:12,599
Speaker 10: first year we saw the first of the series rallies

1553
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:15,799
Speaker 10: that Steve just referred to. They went to Deey Plaza,

1554
01:25:15,880 --> 01:25:18,960
Speaker 10: where President Kennedy had been murdered fifty eight years earlier.

1555
01:25:19,840 --> 01:25:22,800
Speaker 10: Over the course of many months, q Andon disciples kept

1556
01:25:22,840 --> 01:25:26,439
Speaker 10: returning to the site of JFK's death, some staying at

1557
01:25:26,479 --> 01:25:29,000
Speaker 10: a local hotel so they could be nearby when the

1558
01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:33,559
Speaker 10: Kennedy return happened. This was covered by Dallas ABC affiliate

1559
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:38,759
Speaker 10: WFAA in November twenty twenty one. Reporter Kevin Reese interviewed

1560
01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:42,040
Speaker 10: some of the ones gathered at the Kennedy assassination site.

1561
01:25:42,200 --> 01:25:48,360
Speaker 20: Word on the street is that Junior JFK Junior will

1562
01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:50,200
Speaker 20: show up and introduce his parents.

1563
01:25:50,840 --> 01:25:54,840
Speaker 21: You're expecting JFK Junior absolutely, Okay, how is that going

1564
01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:57,080
Speaker 21: to happen and never die?

1565
01:25:57,920 --> 01:26:01,280
Speaker 3: Are we going to see him today? JFKG. Yeah, that's whatever.

1566
01:26:01,320 --> 01:26:04,200
Speaker 3: We're helping. We're hoping to hope and pray, and then

1567
01:26:04,280 --> 01:26:06,920
Speaker 3: after that he'll probably be the vice president with Trump.

1568
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:12,120
Speaker 10: Conspiracy theorists often pay a high personal price for beliefs

1569
01:26:12,520 --> 01:26:16,599
Speaker 10: that marginalize them from family, friends, and mainstream society.

1570
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:20,519
Speaker 3: There was one real truth several of these people agreed

1571
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:22,599
Speaker 3: to talk about. But you got to understand that most

1572
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:24,240
Speaker 3: of the world is going to think that's just crazy.

1573
01:26:25,400 --> 01:26:27,639
Speaker 20: That's why half my family won't talk to me. Anymore,

1574
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:31,320
Speaker 20: then will my girlfriend thinks I've.

1575
01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:31,639
Speaker 3: Lost my mind.

1576
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:34,519
Speaker 10: With the return of Donald Trump to the White House

1577
01:26:34,600 --> 01:26:38,599
Speaker 10: on January twentieth, conspiracy theories will move from the fringe

1578
01:26:38,760 --> 01:26:42,560
Speaker 10: to the seat of power. JFK Junior won't emerge and

1579
01:26:42,640 --> 01:26:46,719
Speaker 10: grab the reins, but a different Kennedy will. Bobby Kennedy Junior.

1580
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:51,080
Speaker 10: Bobby Kennedy Junior has insisted that Wi fi causes cancer

1581
01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:55,560
Speaker 10: and that AIDS might not be caused by HIV vaccines.

1582
01:26:55,600 --> 01:27:00,280
Speaker 10: He claims against overwhelming evidence cause autism, anti depressed since

1583
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:05,040
Speaker 10: caused school shootings, and chemicals and water lead to gender dysphoria.

1584
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:09,280
Speaker 10: One of these chemicals, RFK Junior insist might be an

1585
01:27:09,320 --> 01:27:11,479
Speaker 10: old obsession of the conspiratorial right.

1586
01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:17,519
Speaker 7: I think fluoride is a poison becauses loss IQ in

1587
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:20,840
Speaker 7: our developmental injuries, and think florid is on the way up.

1588
01:27:22,680 --> 01:27:25,800
Speaker 11: RFK Junior mind You is the nominee for the head

1589
01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:28,960
Speaker 11: of the Department of Health and Human Services, and in

1590
01:27:29,040 --> 01:27:33,120
Speaker 11: a recent interview claimed that he was aided in his

1591
01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:38,720
Speaker 11: schoolwork through the recreational self medication of heroin. Trump has

1592
01:27:38,920 --> 01:27:43,040
Speaker 11: himself obsessively promoted his own sinister tales of the deep

1593
01:27:43,080 --> 01:27:46,720
Speaker 11: state that supposedly stole the twenty twenty election from him, and,

1594
01:27:46,880 --> 01:27:48,720
Speaker 11: as we have said, has co opted some of the

1595
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:52,479
Speaker 11: slogans of the q Andon movement. None of this, obviously,

1596
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:56,080
Speaker 11: was disqualifying to a plurality of voters this past November.

1597
01:27:56,840 --> 01:28:00,439
Speaker 11: So why are people drawn to conspiracy theories? First off,

1598
01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:04,760
Speaker 11: they provide convenient explanations that can be broken down into

1599
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:08,120
Speaker 11: sort of simple logics for people who may not have

1600
01:28:08,240 --> 01:28:12,280
Speaker 11: frameworks for understanding a complex world. And they also provide

1601
01:28:12,360 --> 01:28:16,360
Speaker 11: believers sort of new family and friends as they become

1602
01:28:16,439 --> 01:28:21,200
Speaker 11: increasingly alienated from their original family and friends. Regardless of

1603
01:28:21,280 --> 01:28:24,840
Speaker 11: whatever plots they believe they have revealed. It's clear that

1604
01:28:25,120 --> 01:28:29,200
Speaker 11: conspiracy theorists of this sort they don't believe that history

1605
01:28:29,320 --> 01:28:34,000
Speaker 11: is a product of class conflict, or imperialism or the

1606
01:28:34,080 --> 01:28:39,519
Speaker 11: global scramble for natural resources, not ahing like that. It's

1607
01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:44,040
Speaker 11: not shaped by political and economic alliances between elites, or

1608
01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:49,400
Speaker 11: irreversible transformations and technology that render old job skills irrelevant.

1609
01:28:49,479 --> 01:28:54,200
Speaker 11: There's no material analysis. All of this loss, all this fear,

1610
01:28:54,360 --> 01:28:58,720
Speaker 11: all this terrifying disruption of what is comfortably routine they

1611
01:28:58,880 --> 01:29:03,120
Speaker 11: view stems from a sinister plot, a plan that is

1612
01:29:03,320 --> 01:29:08,080
Speaker 11: hidden tightly by a small circle of elites, sort of

1613
01:29:08,200 --> 01:29:12,200
Speaker 11: cartoon villains with near superpowers that control the world. And

1614
01:29:12,360 --> 01:29:16,160
Speaker 11: if only the right people, the sort of heroes of

1615
01:29:16,280 --> 01:29:18,960
Speaker 11: the story of the movie that they think that they're watching,

1616
01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:21,920
Speaker 11: if only those people would step forward and pull off

1617
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:25,280
Speaker 11: the mask of the villains, then everything would be set right.

1618
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:30,040
Speaker 10: These enemies of freedom somehow pull all the strings in

1619
01:29:30,200 --> 01:29:34,200
Speaker 10: sight unseen, manipulate every aspect of the world's politics, culture

1620
01:29:34,240 --> 01:29:40,800
Speaker 10: and finance, manipulate elections, engineer depressions, urban riots, and even hurricanes.

1621
01:29:41,320 --> 01:29:44,920
Speaker 10: Yet for all their cleverness, they leave just enough clues

1622
01:29:45,400 --> 01:29:48,280
Speaker 10: so that amateur sleuths, if they are just smart enough,

1623
01:29:48,680 --> 01:29:53,400
Speaker 10: can crack the code. Conspiracy theories make history and understandable

1624
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:57,599
Speaker 10: contests between ruthless bad guys and intrepid heroes, who then

1625
01:29:57,680 --> 01:30:01,519
Speaker 10: feel superior because they've unveiled the mass their plan. As

1626
01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:05,000
Speaker 10: they discover kindred spirits, they find community otherwise lacking in

1627
01:30:05,080 --> 01:30:09,320
Speaker 10: their lives. Perhaps, if just enough people know about the conspiracy,

1628
01:30:09,360 --> 01:30:12,680
Speaker 10: they hope the bad guys will fall and the millennium

1629
01:30:12,720 --> 01:30:17,560
Speaker 10: will follow. That fantasy offers a simpler, more emotionally satisfying

1630
01:30:17,640 --> 01:30:20,559
Speaker 10: vision of the future than planning on how to dismantle

1631
01:30:20,680 --> 01:30:24,799
Speaker 10: capitalism or figuring out how to persuade white people, for instance,

1632
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:30,040
Speaker 10: surrender their privileges that come with skin color. Conspiracy theories

1633
01:30:30,120 --> 01:30:34,320
Speaker 10: are mostly a distraction, but unfortunately they are often from

1634
01:30:34,360 --> 01:30:38,000
Speaker 10: Oklahoma City to the US capital, a call for deadly action.

1635
01:30:38,680 --> 01:30:41,960
Speaker 11: And while figures like hl hunt and their operations like

1636
01:30:42,080 --> 01:30:45,560
Speaker 11: Lifeline maybe in the past, we have our own contemporary

1637
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:49,280
Speaker 11: versions of this with roots in Texas. We now have

1638
01:30:49,640 --> 01:30:53,800
Speaker 11: Elon Musk who controls x formerly known as Twitter, in

1639
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:57,560
Speaker 11: which he has used his platform with millions of followers

1640
01:30:57,640 --> 01:31:01,880
Speaker 11: to promote dangerous conspiracy theory like the Great Replacement theory,

1641
01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:06,320
Speaker 11: which we recorded a previous episode of this podcast about. Ultimately,

1642
01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:09,960
Speaker 11: we are living in a culture that swims with conspiracy theories,

1643
01:31:10,320 --> 01:31:12,760
Speaker 11: and for us to make our way out of the

1644
01:31:12,840 --> 01:31:16,080
Speaker 11: rabbit hole, we're going to need some sort of framework

1645
01:31:16,280 --> 01:31:19,439
Speaker 11: for understanding the world, something that can help us better

1646
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:23,320
Speaker 11: understand how we got here and where we're going. And

1647
01:31:23,600 --> 01:31:26,679
Speaker 11: no matter what that is, it certainly won't be something

1648
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:30,880
Speaker 11: as simple as believing that we just have to pull

1649
01:31:30,960 --> 01:31:34,000
Speaker 11: off the mask of some villain and then everything will

1650
01:31:34,040 --> 01:31:35,080
Speaker 11: be set straight from there.

1651
01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:38,840
Speaker 10: This is Michael Phillips and this is Stephen Monticelli.

1652
01:31:39,360 --> 01:32:04,479
Speaker 22: Thanks for listening, Hello, and welcome to It could happen

1653
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:07,160
Speaker 22: here a podcast about things falling apart and how to

1654
01:32:07,200 --> 01:32:10,320
Speaker 22: put them back together. I'm your guest host, Margaret Kiljoy,

1655
01:32:10,760 --> 01:32:13,160
Speaker 22: and this is an episode about both of those things.

1656
01:32:13,760 --> 01:32:17,280
Speaker 22: Not Margaret and Killjoy, but about things falling apart and

1657
01:32:17,600 --> 01:32:20,519
Speaker 22: putting them back together. If you live in the US,

1658
01:32:21,240 --> 01:32:24,760
Speaker 22: you might have noticed the things are falling apart. In

1659
01:32:24,840 --> 01:32:27,880
Speaker 22: the onslaught of new federal changes over the past few weeks.

1660
01:32:28,240 --> 01:32:30,920
Speaker 22: There is one that is both astoundingly important and also

1661
01:32:31,360 --> 01:32:35,799
Speaker 22: likely to disappear below people's radars because it affects prisoners,

1662
01:32:36,680 --> 01:32:40,559
Speaker 22: trans prisoners. Prison is the place that society puts people

1663
01:32:40,760 --> 01:32:43,680
Speaker 22: to forget that they exist. We shouldn't be that way,

1664
01:32:44,320 --> 01:32:47,080
Speaker 22: while prisons ought not to be how we solve problems

1665
01:32:47,120 --> 01:32:49,720
Speaker 22: as a society at all, but it is the way

1666
01:32:49,760 --> 01:32:54,160
Speaker 22: that things currently are. Things that affect prisoners are routinely ignored,

1667
01:32:54,680 --> 01:32:57,080
Speaker 22: even though we live in a society built on the

1668
01:32:57,200 --> 01:33:01,599
Speaker 22: idea of incarceration. It's been in the news that US

1669
01:33:01,720 --> 01:33:06,040
Speaker 22: trans people somehow just sort of don't exist anymore, that

1670
01:33:06,120 --> 01:33:11,680
Speaker 22: everyone is either male or female, dictated at birth and immutable. Obviously,

1671
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:14,919
Speaker 22: this flies in the face of biological and social reality,

1672
01:33:15,439 --> 01:33:18,599
Speaker 22: and it's going to impact us trans people quite a bit.

1673
01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:23,840
Speaker 22: One group of people that it's going to impact very immediately,

1674
01:33:24,439 --> 01:33:30,640
Speaker 22: very dramatically, and very dangerously is trans prisoners. According to

1675
01:33:30,720 --> 01:33:34,599
Speaker 22: Bureau of Prison Statistics, there are currently one thousand, five

1676
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:37,880
Speaker 22: hundred and twenty nine trans women and seven hundred and

1677
01:33:37,960 --> 01:33:42,240
Speaker 22: forty four trans men held in federal prisons, and not

1678
01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:46,200
Speaker 22: all of them are being held in gender appropriate prisons already.

1679
01:33:47,040 --> 01:33:48,720
Speaker 22: As we're going to talk about with our guests in

1680
01:33:48,760 --> 01:33:51,320
Speaker 22: a bit, prisoners have to go through an incredible amount

1681
01:33:51,360 --> 01:33:54,280
Speaker 22: of dehumanization in order to have a chance of being

1682
01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:58,000
Speaker 22: placed in the right facility. But now that isn't an option,

1683
01:33:58,600 --> 01:34:02,000
Speaker 22: and women are being moved into men's prisons. Does the

1684
01:34:02,120 --> 01:34:06,080
Speaker 22: idea of being a woman in a men's prison scare you?

1685
01:34:07,360 --> 01:34:07,759
Speaker 3: It should.

1686
01:34:08,680 --> 01:34:14,240
Speaker 22: It's terrifying. It's worse than what you might imagine. One

1687
01:34:14,320 --> 01:34:17,320
Speaker 22: trans woman prisoner who's using a pseudonym for her lawsuit

1688
01:34:17,840 --> 01:34:21,600
Speaker 22: going by Maria Moe, has already filed a lawsuit in

1689
01:34:21,680 --> 01:34:25,400
Speaker 22: federal court to stop this new regulation. She is challenging

1690
01:34:25,479 --> 01:34:29,639
Speaker 22: it on both procedural and constitutional grounds. The government didn't

1691
01:34:29,640 --> 01:34:32,800
Speaker 22: go about this in the legal manner, and to house

1692
01:34:32,880 --> 01:34:36,320
Speaker 22: trans women with men goes against the Eighth Amendment, which

1693
01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:39,599
Speaker 22: prohibits cruel and unusual punishment, as well as the Fifth

1694
01:34:39,640 --> 01:34:44,600
Speaker 22: Amendments do process clause. I simply can't imagine putting a

1695
01:34:44,680 --> 01:34:47,640
Speaker 22: woman into men's prison as anything other than cruel and

1696
01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:51,880
Speaker 22: unusual punishment. The state can pretend that trans women aren't women,

1697
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:55,120
Speaker 22: but the men in prison will not treat her like

1698
01:34:55,200 --> 01:34:58,800
Speaker 22: how they treat assists men. On January twenty first, the

1699
01:34:58,880 --> 01:35:01,240
Speaker 22: woman suing the prisons was told that she was going

1700
01:35:01,280 --> 01:35:03,920
Speaker 22: to be moved to men's prison after all of her

1701
01:35:03,960 --> 01:35:08,320
Speaker 22: records were suddenly changed to mark her male. Federal data

1702
01:35:08,520 --> 01:35:11,320
Speaker 22: says that trans prisoners are sexually assaulted at ten times

1703
01:35:11,400 --> 01:35:15,960
Speaker 22: the rate of other prisoners, and that's the state's own reporting.

1704
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:16,120
Speaker 15: On the issue.

1705
01:35:17,120 --> 01:35:20,639
Speaker 22: But you know who doesn't know how to effortlessly transition

1706
01:35:20,760 --> 01:35:23,720
Speaker 22: to ads after saying something as serious as that, it's me,

1707
01:35:24,479 --> 01:35:27,080
Speaker 22: I don't know how to effortlessly transitions ads after giving

1708
01:35:27,120 --> 01:35:30,880
Speaker 22: you a statistic like that. When we come back, we're

1709
01:35:30,920 --> 01:35:33,560
Speaker 22: going to talk about how serious the situation is, but

1710
01:35:33,680 --> 01:35:36,880
Speaker 22: also provide just an absolute, incredible number of things that

1711
01:35:36,960 --> 01:35:40,000
Speaker 22: you can do at various levels of risk to support

1712
01:35:40,080 --> 01:35:42,360
Speaker 22: the people whose lives are about to be ruined by

1713
01:35:42,400 --> 01:35:56,720
Speaker 22: this policy change. Okay, and we're back. So to talk

1714
01:35:56,760 --> 01:35:59,200
Speaker 22: about how trans people fare in prison, I have brought

1715
01:35:59,240 --> 01:36:02,800
Speaker 22: on my friend with the most experienced in prison, the

1716
01:36:02,880 --> 01:36:07,040
Speaker 22: former political prisoner Eric King. Eric served just shy of

1717
01:36:07,160 --> 01:36:09,559
Speaker 22: ten years in prison for throwing a molotov into an

1718
01:36:09,600 --> 01:36:12,360
Speaker 22: empty federal building one night in response to the Ferguson

1719
01:36:12,439 --> 01:36:15,599
Speaker 22: uprising of twenty fourteen. Those were a protests that were

1720
01:36:15,680 --> 01:36:18,040
Speaker 22: anti police protests that started in the wake of the

1721
01:36:18,080 --> 01:36:21,280
Speaker 22: police killing of eighteen year old black man Michael Brown.

1722
01:36:22,439 --> 01:36:24,360
Speaker 22: Eric is also the co editor of a book called

1723
01:36:24,439 --> 01:36:28,120
Speaker 22: Rattling the Cages, Oral Histories of North American Political Prisoners,

1724
01:36:28,520 --> 01:36:31,120
Speaker 22: which has a forward by none other than Angela Davis

1725
01:36:31,320 --> 01:36:34,720
Speaker 22: and is worth checking out. Eric was released from the

1726
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:38,080
Speaker 22: eighty X Supermax in December twenty twenty three. He walked

1727
01:36:38,120 --> 01:36:40,960
Speaker 22: out of prison wearing a support trans kid shirt and

1728
01:36:41,080 --> 01:36:43,280
Speaker 22: has been vocal about his support for us as soon

1729
01:36:43,320 --> 01:36:46,960
Speaker 22: as he walked out the door. So Eric, thanks for

1730
01:36:47,200 --> 01:36:48,439
Speaker 22: coming on. It could happen here.

1731
01:36:48,520 --> 01:36:48,880
Speaker 3: How are you.

1732
01:36:49,479 --> 01:36:51,160
Speaker 22: I'm doing really well, glad to be back, Thank you

1733
01:36:51,240 --> 01:36:55,519
Speaker 22: so much. Yeah, so you reached out to me about

1734
01:36:56,280 --> 01:36:59,040
Speaker 22: this what would you call it, like a policy change?

1735
01:36:59,160 --> 01:37:03,000
Speaker 22: Yeahcus to order, I guess, yeah, you know, And basically

1736
01:37:03,240 --> 01:37:05,360
Speaker 22: we talked about like how do we try and make

1737
01:37:05,479 --> 01:37:10,000
Speaker 22: sure that people know about what's happening. And I wanted

1738
01:37:10,040 --> 01:37:13,439
Speaker 22: to ask you, So, you're a sis man and you

1739
01:37:13,560 --> 01:37:15,800
Speaker 22: didn't have an easy time in prison, right as far

1740
01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:18,240
Speaker 22: as I as far as I understand now, I think

1741
01:37:18,280 --> 01:37:19,920
Speaker 22: no one gets to have an easy time in prison

1742
01:37:20,120 --> 01:37:23,640
Speaker 22: is one of the things, especially in a supermax, So.

1743
01:37:23,720 --> 01:37:24,639
Speaker 3: Not that easier than others.

1744
01:37:24,680 --> 01:37:26,800
Speaker 22: I guess, yeah, you were not among the people who

1745
01:37:26,840 --> 01:37:30,839
Speaker 22: had it easier. And as I would follow your journey

1746
01:37:31,160 --> 01:37:34,120
Speaker 22: through the federal prison system, it seems like you had

1747
01:37:34,160 --> 01:37:37,559
Speaker 22: to defend yourself against both other prisoners and also prison staff.

1748
01:37:37,680 --> 01:37:41,760
Speaker 3: Is that a fair way to put it mildly? Yeah, yes,

1749
01:37:41,840 --> 01:37:44,160
Speaker 3: that was what was going on. Can you tell me a.

1750
01:37:44,200 --> 01:37:47,360
Speaker 22: Bit about the experience of trans people in prison, because

1751
01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:49,240
Speaker 22: when you look at this executive order, it sort of

1752
01:37:49,280 --> 01:37:52,519
Speaker 22: implies like all trans women are in women's prison and

1753
01:37:52,640 --> 01:37:55,559
Speaker 22: all trans men. Actually, I literally have no idea where

1754
01:37:55,560 --> 01:37:57,240
Speaker 22: transmit are held. I would rather if I was a

1755
01:37:57,280 --> 01:37:59,519
Speaker 22: transmit I'd probably rather be in women's prison. I just

1756
01:38:00,240 --> 01:38:03,040
Speaker 22: I don't know what was the situation like before this

1757
01:38:03,200 --> 01:38:03,960
Speaker 22: executive order.

1758
01:38:05,080 --> 01:38:07,559
Speaker 19: So I want to start with saying, like, the reason

1759
01:38:07,600 --> 01:38:10,200
Speaker 19: I hit you up is because there's so much like

1760
01:38:10,400 --> 01:38:14,640
Speaker 19: horror happening this first week of like Trump's new presidency,

1761
01:38:15,280 --> 01:38:18,400
Speaker 19: and I didn't want this issue to get swept under

1762
01:38:18,439 --> 01:38:21,519
Speaker 19: the rug. A lot of times, the bigger, more mainstream

1763
01:38:21,520 --> 01:38:24,920
Speaker 19: issues will get the most attention. And I still remember

1764
01:38:25,280 --> 01:38:29,160
Speaker 19: our trans family inside, and so that's what scared me

1765
01:38:29,360 --> 01:38:31,080
Speaker 19: enough to be like, dude, I need.

1766
01:38:31,080 --> 01:38:31,800
Speaker 3: To talk to you about this.

1767
01:38:32,280 --> 01:38:32,479
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1768
01:38:33,400 --> 01:38:37,280
Speaker 19: So when I was inside, there was not very many

1769
01:38:37,640 --> 01:38:41,719
Speaker 19: trans people, and they're like, correct prison, Like a trans

1770
01:38:41,800 --> 01:38:44,040
Speaker 19: woman should be in a women's prison, yea, a trans

1771
01:38:44,120 --> 01:38:45,559
Speaker 19: man should be in a man's prison.

1772
01:38:46,120 --> 01:38:49,240
Speaker 3: And that wasn't happening on the level that it should have.

1773
01:38:50,080 --> 01:38:53,559
Speaker 19: And there was a rare case like Marius Mason who

1774
01:38:53,680 --> 01:38:56,800
Speaker 19: had enough support, enough publicity where they were able to

1775
01:38:56,920 --> 01:39:01,080
Speaker 19: but most people we were stuck at their gender at birth.

1776
01:39:01,840 --> 01:39:05,080
Speaker 19: And so over the last couple of years, people started

1777
01:39:05,080 --> 01:39:08,640
Speaker 19: getting a lot more access to safe prisons. That's why

1778
01:39:08,640 --> 01:39:11,920
Speaker 19: I'll call them my prisons where they feel safest. Okay,

1779
01:39:12,160 --> 01:39:14,839
Speaker 19: so I trans women were starting to go to women's prisons,

1780
01:39:15,479 --> 01:39:18,080
Speaker 19: and it wasn't very many. It's not like there's tens

1781
01:39:18,080 --> 01:39:22,519
Speaker 19: of thousands, but handfuls. Because it is it's very hard

1782
01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:25,840
Speaker 19: in the federal system. To get recognized as a transgender person.

1783
01:39:27,160 --> 01:39:31,760
Speaker 19: You have to go through years of degrading and humiliating

1784
01:39:31,880 --> 01:39:35,680
Speaker 19: therapy with a prison psychologist. You have to get just

1785
01:39:36,000 --> 01:39:40,120
Speaker 19: horribly treated by doctors who ignore you, gaslight you, diminish,

1786
01:39:40,200 --> 01:39:44,040
Speaker 19: you try to push Christianity on you, and then if

1787
01:39:44,080 --> 01:39:47,640
Speaker 19: you make it through their brutality, then you were one

1788
01:39:47,680 --> 01:39:48,320
Speaker 19: of the lucky ones.

1789
01:39:48,360 --> 01:39:50,519
Speaker 3: You got to say, like, I am this person, this

1790
01:39:50,680 --> 01:39:51,200
Speaker 3: is who I am.

1791
01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:53,880
Speaker 19: And if you're even more lucky, you got to be

1792
01:39:54,000 --> 01:39:56,040
Speaker 19: transferred to a prison that would make you feel the

1793
01:39:56,080 --> 01:40:00,240
Speaker 19: safest and the most whole is a human And that's

1794
01:40:00,320 --> 01:40:04,439
Speaker 19: the goal, Like, that's the safety goal. Basically, that's where

1795
01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:07,519
Speaker 19: we wanted things to be pushed. That people would be

1796
01:40:07,600 --> 01:40:10,760
Speaker 19: recognized for who they are, they would get treated for

1797
01:40:11,400 --> 01:40:13,880
Speaker 19: who they were, and they would be sent to a

1798
01:40:14,040 --> 01:40:16,559
Speaker 19: prison that was congruent with who they were.

1799
01:40:17,200 --> 01:40:18,840
Speaker 3: And that's what's all being taken away.

1800
01:40:19,200 --> 01:40:23,559
Speaker 22: Yeah, and when you talk about the safety, I don't

1801
01:40:23,600 --> 01:40:26,439
Speaker 22: want to like necessarily go on at great length about

1802
01:40:26,479 --> 01:40:29,840
Speaker 22: how trans women suffer invents prisons, but it's probably worth

1803
01:40:30,400 --> 01:40:33,720
Speaker 22: talking about, like because you've described it as there's like

1804
01:40:34,200 --> 01:40:37,040
Speaker 22: literal sexual slavery happening in the prisons.

1805
01:40:37,120 --> 01:40:38,280
Speaker 3: Is that a fair way to put it?

1806
01:40:38,680 --> 01:40:42,040
Speaker 19: Yeah, one hundred and ten percent yes, yes, And I

1807
01:40:42,120 --> 01:40:44,679
Speaker 19: only speak for federal prisons. I know in some states

1808
01:40:44,720 --> 01:40:47,519
Speaker 19: it's different. Like in some states people are able to

1809
01:40:47,760 --> 01:40:50,880
Speaker 19: use like their femininity as like a power play, as

1810
01:40:50,920 --> 01:40:54,400
Speaker 19: a tool to keep themselves safe. And so if that,

1811
01:40:54,840 --> 01:40:57,519
Speaker 19: if that's an option, then great, But what I witnessed

1812
01:40:57,520 --> 01:40:59,400
Speaker 19: in the federal prison was the exactly opposite of that.

1813
01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:03,400
Speaker 19: People are getting destroyed. And if you go into a

1814
01:41:03,520 --> 01:41:07,759
Speaker 19: men's prison presenting as female in any way or soft anywhere,

1815
01:41:07,840 --> 01:41:10,840
Speaker 19: or as any type of one or any type of

1816
01:41:11,000 --> 01:41:16,240
Speaker 19: nonsense straight mail, you are an automatic target. And it's

1817
01:41:16,280 --> 01:41:19,160
Speaker 19: not like hyperbole to say that if you walked onto

1818
01:41:19,200 --> 01:41:22,120
Speaker 19: a penitentiary yard and you had makeup, if you had

1819
01:41:22,200 --> 01:41:25,479
Speaker 19: your hair long, if you had breast, if you had

1820
01:41:26,120 --> 01:41:30,200
Speaker 19: anything presenting as female, you will get butchered.

1821
01:41:30,800 --> 01:41:31,559
Speaker 3: Within an hour.

1822
01:41:32,000 --> 01:41:36,280
Speaker 21: You won't survive that, or you'll get by some group

1823
01:41:36,640 --> 01:41:38,280
Speaker 21: and you will be a site like you will be

1824
01:41:38,400 --> 01:41:42,320
Speaker 21: property and at the lower custody levels, it's a lot safer.

1825
01:41:42,400 --> 01:41:44,160
Speaker 3: If you're at a low security like FCI.

1826
01:41:44,040 --> 01:41:47,080
Speaker 19: Englewood, you're not in danger, though you're a danger of

1827
01:41:47,200 --> 01:41:50,320
Speaker 19: humiliation and being degraded by staff, but you're not going

1828
01:41:50,400 --> 01:41:51,519
Speaker 19: to get stabbed there.

1829
01:41:52,000 --> 01:41:54,600
Speaker 3: But God forbid you go to Victorville.

1830
01:41:54,200 --> 01:41:58,559
Speaker 19: Medium, Florence Medium, or any penitentiary, Like that's a death

1831
01:41:58,640 --> 01:41:59,639
Speaker 19: sentence for real.

1832
01:42:00,160 --> 01:42:03,400
Speaker 22: Yeah, do you want to talk about the worst things

1833
01:42:03,400 --> 01:42:04,960
Speaker 22: that ever happened to you? Do you want to talk

1834
01:42:05,000 --> 01:42:09,000
Speaker 22: about you? And I We did another episode on my

1835
01:42:09,120 --> 01:42:11,880
Speaker 22: other podcast Live like the World is Dying and talking

1836
01:42:11,920 --> 01:42:15,840
Speaker 22: about how to survive prison, and in it, you talked

1837
01:42:15,880 --> 01:42:18,960
Speaker 22: a little bit about what was necessary to kind of

1838
01:42:19,200 --> 01:42:22,680
Speaker 22: stand up for trans prisoners. Do you want to talk

1839
01:42:22,720 --> 01:42:23,519
Speaker 22: about that a little bit?

1840
01:42:24,000 --> 01:42:27,839
Speaker 19: Yeah, So, like everyone needs to have like consequence awareness

1841
01:42:27,960 --> 01:42:30,439
Speaker 19: and they need to work on the lines that make

1842
01:42:30,520 --> 01:42:33,840
Speaker 19: them feel most comfortable, of course, but for me, I

1843
01:42:34,120 --> 01:42:37,840
Speaker 19: was not comfortable at all watching trans or gay prisoners

1844
01:42:38,240 --> 01:42:41,519
Speaker 19: get brutalized. And so there were times where we'd have

1845
01:42:41,640 --> 01:42:45,800
Speaker 19: to raise money to buy a prisoner out of sex slavery. Yeah,

1846
01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:49,000
Speaker 19: we just have to buy them and then basically free

1847
01:42:49,080 --> 01:42:51,519
Speaker 19: them or pay off whatever debt they owed so that

1848
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:53,599
Speaker 19: they no longer have to be in that situation.

1849
01:42:54,160 --> 01:42:55,840
Speaker 3: And there was other times that you you have to

1850
01:42:55,920 --> 01:42:58,320
Speaker 3: knife up or you have to show up physically.

1851
01:42:59,040 --> 01:43:01,360
Speaker 19: And I'm not a big I of course, like I

1852
01:43:01,560 --> 01:43:06,120
Speaker 19: don't tolerate like anti trams bullshit in my life anywhere,

1853
01:43:06,160 --> 01:43:08,960
Speaker 19: and that includes in prison, and so like there are

1854
01:43:09,040 --> 01:43:11,240
Speaker 19: times you have to step to people and say like

1855
01:43:12,040 --> 01:43:14,400
Speaker 19: I am not gonna let this person have this happen

1856
01:43:14,479 --> 01:43:16,040
Speaker 19: to them. And if you want to continue doing this,

1857
01:43:16,160 --> 01:43:18,559
Speaker 19: then like we're going to take it to the next level.

1858
01:43:19,439 --> 01:43:22,360
Speaker 19: And I wish to god there was more prison allies

1859
01:43:22,439 --> 01:43:25,080
Speaker 19: that would be willing to do that inside, because once

1860
01:43:25,160 --> 01:43:28,559
Speaker 19: someone is shown to have like support, it makes them

1861
01:43:28,640 --> 01:43:31,519
Speaker 19: less easy to be a victim. If people see that

1862
01:43:31,640 --> 01:43:33,920
Speaker 19: like this person's trams or like other people are riding

1863
01:43:33,960 --> 01:43:36,880
Speaker 19: with them, they're less likely to go after them because

1864
01:43:36,880 --> 01:43:40,280
Speaker 19: they'll be consequences. But if they're all alone, then they're

1865
01:43:40,360 --> 01:43:43,479
Speaker 19: just a sitting duck. And so like we need that,

1866
01:43:43,640 --> 01:43:47,200
Speaker 19: we need CIS men to show up and be like this.

1867
01:43:47,360 --> 01:43:48,120
Speaker 3: Is not happening.

1868
01:43:48,120 --> 01:43:49,680
Speaker 19: I don't care what race you are, I don't care

1869
01:43:49,720 --> 01:43:51,640
Speaker 19: what gang you in you're in, You're not going to

1870
01:43:51,720 --> 01:43:54,040
Speaker 19: hurt this person, And that's stuff that we had to do.

1871
01:43:54,160 --> 01:43:56,800
Speaker 19: Sometimes it's scary as shit because you don't know what's

1872
01:43:56,800 --> 01:43:57,519
Speaker 19: going to happen.

1873
01:43:57,360 --> 01:44:00,360
Speaker 3: But you have to, like you have to live your ethics.

1874
01:44:00,960 --> 01:44:02,360
Speaker 22: One of the reasons that I wanted to talk to

1875
01:44:02,400 --> 01:44:05,280
Speaker 22: you about it and have you on this show is because, unfortunately,

1876
01:44:05,320 --> 01:44:08,560
Speaker 22: I mean, prison is kind of a concentration of the

1877
01:44:08,680 --> 01:44:10,880
Speaker 22: worst parts of society. I do not want to say

1878
01:44:10,880 --> 01:44:12,680
Speaker 22: the worst people in society. I believe it has much

1879
01:44:12,720 --> 01:44:14,960
Speaker 22: more to do with the incarceration and the way that

1880
01:44:15,040 --> 01:44:19,040
Speaker 22: people are forced to be right when they're incarcerated. There's

1881
01:44:19,080 --> 01:44:20,680
Speaker 22: a tangent. But have you heard the whole thing where

1882
01:44:20,680 --> 01:44:22,559
Speaker 22: there's no such thing as an alpha male.

1883
01:44:22,439 --> 01:44:24,600
Speaker 3: Wolf in the wild. I've only heard from you, and

1884
01:44:24,640 --> 01:44:25,000
Speaker 3: I loved it.

1885
01:44:25,080 --> 01:44:27,120
Speaker 22: Okay, I probably said this exact same thing last time

1886
01:44:27,120 --> 01:44:28,280
Speaker 22: we time think activity.

1887
01:44:28,400 --> 01:44:30,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so it's like it obviously is going to

1888
01:44:30,800 --> 01:44:31,800
Speaker 3: bring out the worst in people.

1889
01:44:32,240 --> 01:44:33,360
Speaker 22: That one of the reasons I want to have you

1890
01:44:33,360 --> 01:44:34,960
Speaker 22: want to talk about this is because I think that

1891
01:44:35,439 --> 01:44:39,599
Speaker 22: the experiences that you're talking about, they're much more real

1892
01:44:39,760 --> 01:44:42,680
Speaker 22: and intense than most people on the outside are like

1893
01:44:43,600 --> 01:44:47,400
Speaker 22: really thinking. You know, they're like, oh, that sounds bad,

1894
01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:49,439
Speaker 22: but then their brain kind of turns off and they

1895
01:44:49,439 --> 01:44:52,920
Speaker 22: stop imagining what bad looks like. And I think that

1896
01:44:53,200 --> 01:44:55,720
Speaker 22: this idea that we're going to have to stand up

1897
01:44:56,400 --> 01:44:59,160
Speaker 22: for our ethics regardless of the risk and cost to

1898
01:44:59,240 --> 01:45:03,839
Speaker 22: ourselves sometimes is what it takes to create a society

1899
01:45:03,920 --> 01:45:06,040
Speaker 22: that is resistant to fascism. I think it's the same

1900
01:45:06,200 --> 01:45:08,680
Speaker 22: energy that people are going to have to do with,

1901
01:45:08,880 --> 01:45:12,160
Speaker 22: like no, you can't take my neighbors right in the

1902
01:45:12,240 --> 01:45:13,000
Speaker 22: era of ice.

1903
01:45:13,320 --> 01:45:14,639
Speaker 3: I think that's really well said too.

1904
01:45:15,080 --> 01:45:16,759
Speaker 19: I think the way, like I used to wear inside

1905
01:45:16,760 --> 01:45:20,320
Speaker 19: is like we can't take steps backwards. We can't relinquish

1906
01:45:20,600 --> 01:45:23,320
Speaker 19: any progress we've made, not a single pinch of it.

1907
01:45:23,479 --> 01:45:25,200
Speaker 3: Like everything has to move forward.

1908
01:45:25,840 --> 01:45:29,200
Speaker 19: And whatever you're capable of doing, Like not everyone's capable

1909
01:45:29,240 --> 01:45:31,920
Speaker 19: of like physically stepping to someone and saying like no, right,

1910
01:45:32,160 --> 01:45:36,400
Speaker 19: But everyone's capable of something, whether that's doing calling campaigns,

1911
01:45:36,520 --> 01:45:40,759
Speaker 19: organizing protests outside of prison, whether it's contacting region, contacting

1912
01:45:40,800 --> 01:45:44,320
Speaker 19: this person, raising money, doing whatever it takes. Everyone can

1913
01:45:44,360 --> 01:45:47,120
Speaker 19: do something to keep people safe. And it's the same

1914
01:45:47,160 --> 01:45:49,800
Speaker 19: in the free world, Like it's not different. Everyone has

1915
01:45:49,880 --> 01:45:52,599
Speaker 19: something to offer. But it can't be apathy. It can't

1916
01:45:52,640 --> 01:45:55,240
Speaker 19: be this nihilism that like what does it matter, Like

1917
01:45:55,280 --> 01:45:57,240
Speaker 19: they're going to do it anyway. If we do that,

1918
01:45:57,400 --> 01:45:59,840
Speaker 19: like we're just forfeiting the future and we're letting our

1919
01:46:00,000 --> 01:46:01,000
Speaker 19: our family get but butchered.

1920
01:46:01,280 --> 01:46:01,479
Speaker 14: Yeah.

1921
01:46:01,640 --> 01:46:03,240
Speaker 22: I really like that way of phrasing it. Yeah, we

1922
01:46:03,520 --> 01:46:10,840
Speaker 22: can't forfeit the future. How can people support transprisoners with

1923
01:46:11,040 --> 01:46:13,320
Speaker 22: what's going on right now? I don't know how in

1924
01:46:13,400 --> 01:46:15,599
Speaker 22: touch you are with people on the inside and things

1925
01:46:15,640 --> 01:46:19,040
Speaker 22: like that. How are people feeling, like what's the vibe?

1926
01:46:19,160 --> 01:46:19,840
Speaker 3: What can be done?

1927
01:46:21,400 --> 01:46:23,639
Speaker 19: So I assume, like when you're asking what can people

1928
01:46:23,680 --> 01:46:26,400
Speaker 19: do to support transprisoners? I assume you're asking what can

1929
01:46:26,439 --> 01:46:28,360
Speaker 19: free world people do to support those inside?

1930
01:46:28,520 --> 01:46:28,680
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1931
01:46:28,720 --> 01:46:30,439
Speaker 22: I mean you actually kind of have said what people

1932
01:46:30,520 --> 01:46:33,400
Speaker 22: on the inside can do, all right, which is necessary

1933
01:46:33,439 --> 01:46:34,440
Speaker 22: and important.

1934
01:46:34,040 --> 01:46:35,960
Speaker 3: But people on the outside, what can people do?

1935
01:46:36,720 --> 01:46:40,360
Speaker 19: Visibility is safety, Like I saw that in my bid,

1936
01:46:40,439 --> 01:46:42,120
Speaker 19: and I've seen that in other people's bids. And if

1937
01:46:42,160 --> 01:46:43,960
Speaker 19: you look at someone like Marius Mason, if you look

1938
01:46:44,000 --> 01:46:47,599
Speaker 19: at people like Jennifer Rose, keeping people visible and letting

1939
01:46:47,640 --> 01:46:49,800
Speaker 19: the prison know that, like we're not turning a blind

1940
01:46:49,840 --> 01:46:51,439
Speaker 19: eye to this person, like you're not going to get

1941
01:46:51,439 --> 01:46:54,679
Speaker 19: a free one on them that cups people alive, Okay.

1942
01:46:55,240 --> 01:46:57,479
Speaker 3: And so the more the staff knows.

1943
01:46:57,360 --> 01:47:01,000
Speaker 19: And the administration knows that like this per is looked after,

1944
01:47:01,479 --> 01:47:03,719
Speaker 19: the more they are likely to look after them because

1945
01:47:03,720 --> 01:47:06,599
Speaker 19: they don't want to be held accountable. Okay, So things

1946
01:47:06,680 --> 01:47:09,479
Speaker 19: like getting books into people, things like getting pin pals

1947
01:47:09,520 --> 01:47:11,920
Speaker 19: of people, raising money so that they don't have to

1948
01:47:12,000 --> 01:47:14,920
Speaker 19: go into debt, Like that's real, Like this debt stuff

1949
01:47:15,040 --> 01:47:17,679
Speaker 19: is serious. So making sure they have money on their books,

1950
01:47:17,800 --> 01:47:19,360
Speaker 19: Like I don't care what they spend it on. I

1951
01:47:19,400 --> 01:47:20,880
Speaker 19: don't care if they spend on drugs. I don't care

1952
01:47:20,880 --> 01:47:23,040
Speaker 19: if they spend it on twenty bags of coff. You're

1953
01:47:23,120 --> 01:47:25,679
Speaker 19: gambling as long as it keeps them out of slavery

1954
01:47:25,800 --> 01:47:28,840
Speaker 19: or out of that knife, like that's what matters. And

1955
01:47:28,920 --> 01:47:31,600
Speaker 19: then Patsy names around like it's almost as if we

1956
01:47:31,680 --> 01:47:34,519
Speaker 19: concentrate like all of our prisons supporting like five or

1957
01:47:34,560 --> 01:47:37,120
Speaker 19: six people, and then we forget that there's like fifteen

1958
01:47:37,200 --> 01:47:40,600
Speaker 19: thousand trans people in prison. Yeah, and so organizations like

1959
01:47:40,680 --> 01:47:43,519
Speaker 19: Black and Pink do a really amazing job, but like

1960
01:47:43,680 --> 01:47:46,760
Speaker 19: there's there's not enough, Like we need visibility like, we

1961
01:47:46,880 --> 01:47:50,760
Speaker 19: need to keep people present in our lives that we

1962
01:47:50,880 --> 01:47:53,040
Speaker 19: don't know and we might not like their charges, they

1963
01:47:53,120 --> 01:47:55,559
Speaker 19: might not be nice people like, they might not be cool,

1964
01:47:56,280 --> 01:47:56,920
Speaker 19: but we need to.

1965
01:47:56,960 --> 01:48:00,240
Speaker 3: Keep them alive. Like that's what abolition is. So visibility.

1966
01:48:00,439 --> 01:48:03,400
Speaker 22: Yeah, that makes sense. I sort of know the answer

1967
01:48:03,439 --> 01:48:05,320
Speaker 22: to this, but I'm gonna pretend like I don't know

1968
01:48:05,360 --> 01:48:08,040
Speaker 22: it at all. What's Black and Pink. Black and Pink

1969
01:48:08,160 --> 01:48:10,120
Speaker 22: is an organization. I know it used to be an

1970
01:48:10,120 --> 01:48:11,120
Speaker 22: anarchist organization.

1971
01:48:11,160 --> 01:48:13,639
Speaker 19: It might be something else now, but it's an organization

1972
01:48:13,720 --> 01:48:17,880
Speaker 19: that's focused strictly on supporting trans and queer prisoners. That's

1973
01:48:17,920 --> 01:48:20,679
Speaker 19: all they do, social prisoners, political prisoners, it doesn't matter.

1974
01:48:20,960 --> 01:48:23,479
Speaker 19: We're gonna find you a pinpal and we're gonna get

1975
01:48:23,479 --> 01:48:26,040
Speaker 19: people to write you and they do a really amazing job.

1976
01:48:26,160 --> 01:48:29,120
Speaker 19: Like I honor them for putting in that work because

1977
01:48:29,120 --> 01:48:29,479
Speaker 19: it's hard.

1978
01:48:30,120 --> 01:48:33,000
Speaker 22: And so someone who's listening, who's never considered being pen

1979
01:48:33,080 --> 01:48:35,599
Speaker 22: pals of the prisoner could get in touch with Black

1980
01:48:35,680 --> 01:48:38,360
Speaker 22: and Pink and be hooked up with someone to write to.

1981
01:48:38,840 --> 01:48:39,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you like.

1982
01:48:39,680 --> 01:48:41,800
Speaker 19: Even just like right now, someone googled black and Pink

1983
01:48:41,840 --> 01:48:44,800
Speaker 19: pin palm, black and Pink prison Pinpal, like it'll pop

1984
01:48:44,880 --> 01:48:46,760
Speaker 19: up the website. You just click on flying a pin

1985
01:48:46,840 --> 01:48:49,040
Speaker 19: Pal and you can find someone in your city, find

1986
01:48:49,080 --> 01:48:51,439
Speaker 19: someone in your state, find someone back to relate to,

1987
01:48:51,560 --> 01:48:53,679
Speaker 19: like to have a little biography, and you can find

1988
01:48:53,720 --> 01:48:56,200
Speaker 19: someone like to connect with and potentially save their life

1989
01:48:56,320 --> 01:48:57,040
Speaker 19: or save your life.

1990
01:48:57,280 --> 01:48:58,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, it can make you better too.

1991
01:48:59,080 --> 01:49:03,400
Speaker 22: Yeah, okay, so writing helps when you talk about putting

1992
01:49:03,400 --> 01:49:05,560
Speaker 22: money on people's books, like who does that? Is that

1993
01:49:05,640 --> 01:49:08,000
Speaker 22: something you also could go through black and pink? Should

1994
01:49:08,040 --> 01:49:10,439
Speaker 22: people be doing their own fundraisers? And then like working

1995
01:49:10,479 --> 01:49:13,879
Speaker 22: with prisoners that they've already made connections with, like how

1996
01:49:14,520 --> 01:49:16,439
Speaker 22: should people either plug in or start things?

1997
01:49:16,960 --> 01:49:20,000
Speaker 19: So each prison is different, like state and federal, But

1998
01:49:20,320 --> 01:49:22,599
Speaker 19: to put money on someone's books, you can do that yourself.

1999
01:49:22,880 --> 01:49:25,000
Speaker 19: You go you find out wherever prison that person's at,

2000
01:49:25,080 --> 01:49:27,439
Speaker 19: and you can just go to the BOP website or

2001
01:49:27,479 --> 01:49:31,080
Speaker 19: that prison's website. BOP is Bureau Prisons. It's for federal people,

2002
01:49:31,640 --> 01:49:33,400
Speaker 19: and it will just walk you through how to do it,

2003
01:49:33,439 --> 01:49:35,640
Speaker 19: how to send the money ground from Walmart or how

2004
01:49:35,680 --> 01:49:38,120
Speaker 19: to do the JPay and put it on through your

2005
01:49:38,160 --> 01:49:40,200
Speaker 19: credit card, and you can do it like if there's

2006
01:49:40,200 --> 01:49:43,760
Speaker 19: an ABC in Erica's Black Cross community near you, you

2007
01:49:43,840 --> 01:49:47,080
Speaker 19: can fundraise with them. If there's any like books through

2008
01:49:47,120 --> 01:49:50,439
Speaker 19: bars or abolitionist groups near you, like you can and

2009
01:49:50,560 --> 01:49:53,320
Speaker 19: should fundraise with them to raise awareness. But you don't

2010
01:49:53,400 --> 01:49:55,960
Speaker 19: have to, Like everyone can do this on your own,

2011
01:49:56,080 --> 01:49:59,240
Speaker 19: Like this is a single person job. Yeah, but it's

2012
01:49:59,280 --> 01:50:00,599
Speaker 19: better if we do it as a community.

2013
01:50:01,120 --> 01:50:04,240
Speaker 22: Well, the way that I fund raised is that I

2014
01:50:04,439 --> 01:50:08,160
Speaker 22: have advertisers that interrupt me talking about anti capitalist things.

2015
01:50:09,200 --> 01:50:11,720
Speaker 3: And here's one of those interruptions.

2016
01:50:11,840 --> 01:50:14,280
Speaker 22: And I'm gonna go ahead and donate my pay for

2017
01:50:14,360 --> 01:50:17,160
Speaker 22: this episode to exactly what we're talking about. And here's

2018
01:50:17,200 --> 01:50:20,200
Speaker 22: ads they are not donating. You can think of whatever

2019
01:50:20,240 --> 01:50:34,000
Speaker 22: you want about these ads, and we're back okay with

2020
01:50:34,120 --> 01:50:37,760
Speaker 22: this new executive order, Like how are people feeling either

2021
01:50:37,880 --> 01:50:40,200
Speaker 22: inside or people who are doing prison abolition work, or

2022
01:50:40,280 --> 01:50:42,280
Speaker 22: like how crisis does this feel?

2023
01:50:42,640 --> 01:50:42,680
Speaker 4: Like?

2024
01:50:42,800 --> 01:50:44,960
Speaker 3: What's going on? I can't like speak for ever. It

2025
01:50:44,960 --> 01:50:46,320
Speaker 3: should quel like a ten out of ten.

2026
01:50:46,439 --> 01:50:50,840
Speaker 19: Yeah, like this is a carceral genocidee real, this isn't

2027
01:50:50,880 --> 01:50:52,960
Speaker 19: a rasure of an entire people. So like, if you're

2028
01:50:53,000 --> 01:50:54,920
Speaker 19: not at a ten for this, like you either do

2029
01:50:55,080 --> 01:50:57,320
Speaker 19: not care or you're not understanding how serious the prison

2030
01:50:57,360 --> 01:50:57,840
Speaker 19: system is.

2031
01:50:58,360 --> 01:50:59,920
Speaker 3: I've talked to a couple homies inside.

2032
01:51:00,000 --> 01:51:01,880
Speaker 19: I have to be really delicate because I'm still on probation,

2033
01:51:02,560 --> 01:51:07,080
Speaker 19: but those people understand that, like the mood is turning dark. Okay,

2034
01:51:08,120 --> 01:51:11,920
Speaker 19: they see inside that like when fascists come into power,

2035
01:51:12,360 --> 01:51:15,559
Speaker 19: it empowers everyone else below them to be brutal because

2036
01:51:15,560 --> 01:51:17,960
Speaker 19: they can get away with it now. And so these

2037
01:51:18,000 --> 01:51:21,000
Speaker 19: people that were already monsters under the most liberal of

2038
01:51:21,280 --> 01:51:24,240
Speaker 19: prison director are now getting told by the president that

2039
01:51:24,320 --> 01:51:26,800
Speaker 19: they do not have to respect this person's entire life.

2040
01:51:27,120 --> 01:51:30,360
Speaker 19: And so it's a very serious situation. We've got a

2041
01:51:30,400 --> 01:51:33,080
Speaker 19: non binary person about to go and name Casey Goonan,

2042
01:51:33,760 --> 01:51:37,240
Speaker 19: and they got sentenced for allegedly fire bombing some cop

2043
01:51:37,280 --> 01:51:41,479
Speaker 19: cars and support with Palestine, and I talk with them

2044
01:51:41,600 --> 01:51:44,599
Speaker 19: on a weekly basis, just trying to prepare them because

2045
01:51:44,680 --> 01:51:46,400
Speaker 19: like right now, where they're at is a jail and

2046
01:51:46,520 --> 01:51:50,120
Speaker 19: they haven't really experienced the prison yet, and so it's

2047
01:51:50,160 --> 01:51:53,200
Speaker 19: all about like getting them ready for like here are potentials,

2048
01:51:53,720 --> 01:51:56,200
Speaker 19: like here's what they could do. But it's dark in there,

2049
01:51:56,280 --> 01:51:58,559
Speaker 19: like the Nazis are celebrating, and that includes the ones

2050
01:51:58,600 --> 01:51:59,960
Speaker 19: with badges especially.

2051
01:52:00,040 --> 01:52:02,680
Speaker 22: Yeah, that makes sense. What kind of support felt the

2052
01:52:02,720 --> 01:52:05,080
Speaker 22: most useful to you in other prisoners. He talked about

2053
01:52:05,080 --> 01:52:06,800
Speaker 22: this a little bit, but I'm I'm like curious about

2054
01:52:06,800 --> 01:52:10,719
Speaker 22: like you talked about, like visibility, are protests outside of jails?

2055
01:52:10,800 --> 01:52:13,560
Speaker 22: Do they do they make people feel like good and

2056
01:52:13,720 --> 01:52:16,879
Speaker 22: welcome or does it make the guards cracked down on everyone?

2057
01:52:17,080 --> 01:52:18,840
Speaker 22: Like I know that there's this you know, habit of

2058
01:52:18,920 --> 01:52:22,479
Speaker 22: noise demonstrations every New Year's and what kind of stuff

2059
01:52:23,320 --> 01:52:27,400
Speaker 22: felt good, and what kind of stuff felt good but scary,

2060
01:52:27,520 --> 01:52:29,120
Speaker 22: and what kind of stuff was just annoying? Like I

2061
01:52:29,160 --> 01:52:30,680
Speaker 22: don't know, I'm just trying to find more stuff that

2062
01:52:30,720 --> 01:52:31,200
Speaker 22: people can do.

2063
01:52:31,520 --> 01:52:34,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, the noise demos are cool, but they're performative.

2064
01:52:34,479 --> 01:52:34,760
Speaker 4: M M.

2065
01:52:35,080 --> 01:52:37,120
Speaker 19: It's more for the people that are doing them than

2066
01:52:37,160 --> 01:52:37,960
Speaker 19: the people inside.

2067
01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:38,320
Speaker 4: M hm.

2068
01:52:38,560 --> 01:52:40,560
Speaker 19: But like, let's say you're a trans person out of

2069
01:52:40,720 --> 01:52:43,920
Speaker 19: jail and there's thirty five people outside waving your banner.

2070
01:52:44,280 --> 01:52:47,160
Speaker 19: That will get you respect inside, get people to say, oh,

2071
01:52:47,280 --> 01:52:47,840
Speaker 19: what the hell.

2072
01:52:47,800 --> 01:52:48,840
Speaker 3: Is going on with them? Okay?

2073
01:52:49,040 --> 01:52:51,479
Speaker 19: Yeah, like that is that's serious to where you can

2074
01:52:51,560 --> 01:52:54,519
Speaker 19: build up a rep if someone's already in prison, that's

2075
01:52:55,320 --> 01:52:57,040
Speaker 19: you'll probably get them fucked up and put in the shoe.

2076
01:52:57,080 --> 01:52:57,720
Speaker 3: That's what happened to me.

2077
01:52:57,920 --> 01:53:00,400
Speaker 22: If there's a noise demonstration with your name, yeah, yeah,

2078
01:53:00,520 --> 01:53:01,640
Speaker 22: be delicate how you do it?

2079
01:53:01,800 --> 01:53:04,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, because that's what put me in ad X. Oh shit,

2080
01:53:04,280 --> 01:53:07,360
Speaker 3: so that's a real that's a real double edged sword, right.

2081
01:53:07,680 --> 01:53:07,880
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2082
01:53:08,160 --> 01:53:10,400
Speaker 19: They use that as the as the thing saying I

2083
01:53:10,479 --> 01:53:12,519
Speaker 19: was the leader of Antifa because I got people to

2084
01:53:12,600 --> 01:53:13,760
Speaker 19: come out and protest for me.

2085
01:53:14,080 --> 01:53:15,360
Speaker 3: So I got pulleyt. Bel Chapo.

2086
01:53:15,800 --> 01:53:18,000
Speaker 22: We shouldn't tell everyone that you're we have to keep

2087
01:53:18,000 --> 01:53:20,280
Speaker 22: it on the DL that you're the leader of Antifa.

2088
01:53:22,360 --> 01:53:25,519
Speaker 3: For real. We dropped the ball. I know. Wait, I've

2089
01:53:25,560 --> 01:53:28,000
Speaker 3: been told I'm the leader of Antifa. You're my leader?

2090
01:53:28,080 --> 01:53:31,960
Speaker 3: Oh okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally yeah, I'm more reagional leader.

2091
01:53:33,960 --> 01:53:36,000
Speaker 19: The things that help the most, like in a real

2092
01:53:36,080 --> 01:53:39,439
Speaker 19: life situation, are the things that provide mental safety and

2093
01:53:39,680 --> 01:53:44,120
Speaker 19: something to do. Okay, so books, magazines that gives you

2094
01:53:44,320 --> 01:53:47,240
Speaker 19: something to do, like empower yourself and pass the time

2095
01:53:47,320 --> 01:53:49,479
Speaker 19: and stay out of the way. Money helps because then

2096
01:53:49,479 --> 01:53:51,439
Speaker 19: you can do crafts, you can paint, you can do art,

2097
01:53:51,760 --> 01:53:54,719
Speaker 19: you can sell things, you can do crochet. That stuff helps,

2098
01:53:55,320 --> 01:53:58,800
Speaker 19: and then letters obviously like that gives you someone to

2099
01:53:58,880 --> 01:54:01,559
Speaker 19: talk to. It people are actually putting thought into the letters,

2100
01:54:01,920 --> 01:54:05,280
Speaker 19: and I always encourage and I always will for as

2101
01:54:05,400 --> 01:54:08,920
Speaker 19: many people as possible to on a daily or weekly basis,

2102
01:54:09,040 --> 01:54:13,479
Speaker 19: call that prison, call the prison, no matter what prison, state, federal, county,

2103
01:54:13,920 --> 01:54:17,519
Speaker 19: and demand to speak with the warden, the captain, the warden, secretary,

2104
01:54:17,640 --> 01:54:21,320
Speaker 19: the lieutenant, the head of psychology, and demand to know

2105
01:54:21,560 --> 01:54:23,560
Speaker 19: how is this person doing? What are you doing to

2106
01:54:23,680 --> 01:54:26,560
Speaker 19: keep them safe? We're hearing this in this what is

2107
01:54:26,640 --> 01:54:29,920
Speaker 19: going to happen to our family? That makes a difference. Okay,

2108
01:54:30,200 --> 01:54:32,560
Speaker 19: if you know a lawyer, pay the one hundred and

2109
01:54:32,600 --> 01:54:33,840
Speaker 19: twenty dollars an hour to have them do.

2110
01:54:33,880 --> 01:54:34,480
Speaker 3: A legal call.

2111
01:54:35,120 --> 01:54:37,280
Speaker 19: That way, the prison sees this person has a lawyer

2112
01:54:37,400 --> 01:54:39,440
Speaker 19: protecting them. They don't need to know that. It's just

2113
01:54:39,520 --> 01:54:42,200
Speaker 19: a one time call. Yeah, but that legal call, just

2114
01:54:42,320 --> 01:54:44,720
Speaker 19: the wellness check is what they call it. Let's that

2115
01:54:44,880 --> 01:54:47,839
Speaker 19: person get word out about what dangerous stuff is happening.

2116
01:54:48,240 --> 01:54:50,600
Speaker 19: But it also forces the prison to recognize that they

2117
01:54:50,680 --> 01:54:52,280
Speaker 19: might be protected by legal system.

2118
01:54:52,440 --> 01:54:53,960
Speaker 3: Okay, so these things help.

2119
01:54:54,320 --> 01:54:57,480
Speaker 22: Yeah, what's the master plan here for how we're going

2120
01:54:57,560 --> 01:55:00,440
Speaker 22: to respond to this executive order? Because obviously we're not

2121
01:55:00,560 --> 01:55:03,760
Speaker 22: necessarily in a position to immediately reverse this order and

2122
01:55:03,880 --> 01:55:07,120
Speaker 22: get women put into women's prison, which is a crazy

2123
01:55:07,200 --> 01:55:09,240
Speaker 22: thing to have to say, we're not going to be

2124
01:55:09,240 --> 01:55:11,880
Speaker 22: able to get women put into women's prisons, but is

2125
01:55:12,120 --> 01:55:15,720
Speaker 22: organizing with a local group. You create a group and

2126
01:55:16,000 --> 01:55:19,600
Speaker 22: you basically like figure out who the local trans prisoners

2127
01:55:19,600 --> 01:55:22,160
Speaker 22: are in your area and make sure that you're communicating

2128
01:55:22,200 --> 01:55:24,640
Speaker 22: with them and that they're getting wellness calls from lawyers

2129
01:55:24,680 --> 01:55:29,400
Speaker 22: and basically like just making sure that the prison knows

2130
01:55:29,800 --> 01:55:31,920
Speaker 22: that people are paying attention to the fact that there's

2131
01:55:31,960 --> 01:55:33,160
Speaker 22: now women in the men's prison.

2132
01:55:33,320 --> 01:55:36,640
Speaker 19: Is that that's a soft version of what we should do, Yeah.

2133
01:55:36,480 --> 01:55:36,920
Speaker 3: Fair enough.

2134
01:55:37,000 --> 01:55:39,360
Speaker 19: There's other versions that are yeah, okay, there's the other

2135
01:55:39,480 --> 01:55:42,080
Speaker 19: version that like I wish people would do. Yeah, there's

2136
01:55:42,120 --> 01:55:44,960
Speaker 19: a version where we do BDS but for every single

2137
01:55:45,080 --> 01:55:47,920
Speaker 19: company that's benefiting from prison labor, yeah, and say, as

2138
01:55:47,960 --> 01:55:49,920
Speaker 19: long as you let this transgender hate go on, we're

2139
01:55:49,960 --> 01:55:52,760
Speaker 19: not going to support your business. There's boycotting, there's putting

2140
01:55:52,800 --> 01:55:54,440
Speaker 19: people on the road so that the cops can't show

2141
01:55:54,520 --> 01:55:55,160
Speaker 19: up to their jobs.

2142
01:55:55,240 --> 01:55:55,520
Speaker 4: Uh huh.

2143
01:55:55,520 --> 01:55:59,560
Speaker 19: There's protesting outside warden's houses, there's protesting outside governor's houses.

2144
01:55:59,560 --> 01:56:02,520
Speaker 19: If it's for state prison there is tangibly putting your

2145
01:56:02,560 --> 01:56:05,760
Speaker 19: body on the line. There is sabotaging cop cars that

2146
01:56:05,920 --> 01:56:09,000
Speaker 19: go into the prison, there is barricading the entrances. There's

2147
01:56:09,040 --> 01:56:11,720
Speaker 19: a thousand things we can do to say, if you

2148
01:56:11,840 --> 01:56:13,960
Speaker 19: heard our people were hurting you, yea, whether it's in

2149
01:56:14,040 --> 01:56:15,720
Speaker 19: your pocket, whether it's in your car, whether it's in

2150
01:56:15,760 --> 01:56:18,560
Speaker 19: your daily life, whether it's annoying you. We can find

2151
01:56:18,600 --> 01:56:20,920
Speaker 19: things to do if we care enough. And we saw

2152
01:56:20,960 --> 01:56:23,800
Speaker 19: people do it for Palestine. And I don't think transgender

2153
01:56:23,920 --> 01:56:26,560
Speaker 19: lives are less important than Palestinian lives. Yeah, it has

2154
01:56:26,600 --> 01:56:28,520
Speaker 19: to be an equal thing in my mind. Yeah, but

2155
01:56:28,600 --> 01:56:31,800
Speaker 19: the subu sid's really great too. That's like that's daily stuff.

2156
01:56:31,920 --> 01:56:33,440
Speaker 22: No, No, but you're right, and it's like it's funny

2157
01:56:33,480 --> 01:56:35,280
Speaker 22: because it's like, in my mind, it's so hard to

2158
01:56:36,080 --> 01:56:38,480
Speaker 22: ring the alarm bells when all of the alarm bells

2159
01:56:38,480 --> 01:56:41,080
Speaker 22: are ringing, and everyone's kind of ignoring alarm bells right now.

2160
01:56:41,480 --> 01:56:42,760
Speaker 22: I mean, I guess the answer is that we talk

2161
01:56:42,800 --> 01:56:44,960
Speaker 22: about it like this, but like, how do we make

2162
01:56:45,000 --> 01:56:47,520
Speaker 22: sure that people actually listen to the alarm bells that

2163
01:56:47,560 --> 01:56:49,160
Speaker 22: are happening right now? And I think part of it

2164
01:56:49,880 --> 01:56:53,920
Speaker 22: is being really unfortunately brutally honest about what it's like

2165
01:56:54,000 --> 01:56:55,560
Speaker 22: to be a woman in men's prison.

2166
01:56:56,200 --> 01:56:57,880
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think people understand it all.

2167
01:56:58,080 --> 01:57:00,880
Speaker 19: And yeah, there's all this misinformation too, Like you'll hear

2168
01:57:00,960 --> 01:57:03,720
Speaker 19: these like fascist talking points coming out of liberals' mouths

2169
01:57:03,720 --> 01:57:06,280
Speaker 19: to where like well, I don't want my tax dollars

2170
01:57:06,360 --> 01:57:09,240
Speaker 19: going to like pay for their surgery, or I don't

2171
01:57:09,240 --> 01:57:11,720
Speaker 19: want some man just sneaking into a woman's prison saying

2172
01:57:11,720 --> 01:57:14,640
Speaker 19: these transgenders we can rape everyone. And these are like

2173
01:57:14,720 --> 01:57:17,800
Speaker 19: the same scare tactics and like misinformation that's used for

2174
01:57:17,960 --> 01:57:22,040
Speaker 19: every single, like every single repression you've ever seen. And

2175
01:57:22,560 --> 01:57:26,160
Speaker 19: it's our job to confront those head on and call

2176
01:57:26,240 --> 01:57:29,520
Speaker 19: them out. His lives, show show the real information, and

2177
01:57:29,720 --> 01:57:33,080
Speaker 19: it's our job to continue to just force people to

2178
01:57:33,200 --> 01:57:35,919
Speaker 19: recognize that this is a dangerous and real situation.

2179
01:57:36,840 --> 01:57:38,600
Speaker 3: We can't let this entire group.

2180
01:57:38,440 --> 01:57:42,000
Speaker 19: Of people be destroyed, because like, if you're going to

2181
01:57:42,040 --> 01:57:43,920
Speaker 19: turn your blind eye to transgender people, you're going to

2182
01:57:43,920 --> 01:57:45,080
Speaker 19: do it to gay people, You're going to do it

2183
01:57:45,120 --> 01:57:46,520
Speaker 19: to women, You're going to do it to black people,

2184
01:57:46,840 --> 01:57:48,880
Speaker 19: and then it's just you, and then no one's going

2185
01:57:48,960 --> 01:57:52,240
Speaker 19: to protect your stupid ass. We have to as or

2186
01:57:52,280 --> 01:57:54,480
Speaker 19: as I have to as assist man. We have to

2187
01:57:54,560 --> 01:57:57,240
Speaker 19: keep bringing this bell. We have to make people listen.

2188
01:57:57,720 --> 01:57:59,920
Speaker 22: I mean as a as a not currently in prison

2189
01:58:00,040 --> 01:58:02,840
Speaker 22: and trans women. Like one of the reasons I think

2190
01:58:02,880 --> 01:58:05,320
Speaker 22: this almost happens. I mean it happens because the cruelty

2191
01:58:05,400 --> 01:58:09,600
Speaker 22: is the point, but like it's terrifying. You've actually experienced

2192
01:58:09,640 --> 01:58:12,080
Speaker 22: the thing that's terrifying. It is terrifying the idea of

2193
01:58:12,240 --> 01:58:17,000
Speaker 22: going into prison in the United States, especially maximum security prison,

2194
01:58:17,520 --> 01:58:20,720
Speaker 22: potentially especially men's prison, both as a man or a

2195
01:58:20,960 --> 01:58:23,400
Speaker 22: trans woman. I wouldn't want to be in men's prison,

2196
01:58:23,440 --> 01:58:24,000
Speaker 22: and I don't.

2197
01:58:23,800 --> 01:58:25,720
Speaker 19: Even want to compare it, by the way, Okay, it's

2198
01:58:25,800 --> 01:58:28,360
Speaker 19: not comparable. Okay, Like if I didn't have antique attachment

2199
01:58:28,400 --> 01:58:30,080
Speaker 19: on my face, I could walk into any prison in

2200
01:58:30,120 --> 01:58:32,080
Speaker 19: the country and be like, Oh, there's just a white guy.

2201
01:58:32,240 --> 01:58:35,240
Speaker 19: There's just a white roll. Yeah, have no problems. Yeah,

2202
01:58:35,560 --> 01:58:39,000
Speaker 19: a transgender person. There's a single place except for a

2203
01:58:39,080 --> 01:58:41,919
Speaker 19: protective custody yard, where they can walk in and immediately

2204
01:58:41,960 --> 01:58:44,680
Speaker 19: feel safe. Yeah, it's the exact opposite. Everywhere they go

2205
01:58:44,960 --> 01:58:46,960
Speaker 19: is fight or flight. The scariest moment you've ever had

2206
01:58:47,000 --> 01:58:49,240
Speaker 19: your entire life. Point four to seven, all day.

2207
01:58:49,080 --> 01:58:49,360
Speaker 4: Every day.

2208
01:58:49,440 --> 01:58:51,520
Speaker 19: Yeah, picture someone breaking into your home in the middle

2209
01:58:51,520 --> 01:58:53,640
Speaker 19: of the night, in that terror you get. They have

2210
01:58:53,760 --> 01:58:56,000
Speaker 19: to walk into a new prison every single time and

2211
01:58:56,080 --> 01:58:59,520
Speaker 19: face that terror every single day. Yeah, it's not comparable

2212
01:58:59,560 --> 01:59:00,920
Speaker 19: at all. It's scary as shit.

2213
01:59:01,160 --> 01:59:01,720
Speaker 3: No, that's fair.

2214
01:59:02,040 --> 01:59:03,800
Speaker 22: Like to be honest, like I think about and this

2215
01:59:03,920 --> 01:59:06,120
Speaker 22: is like maybe more honest than I'm usually am on

2216
01:59:06,200 --> 01:59:09,200
Speaker 22: this podcast. Like, you know, I don't do as much

2217
01:59:09,240 --> 01:59:11,720
Speaker 22: frontline activism as I did. And part of that's like, oh,

2218
01:59:11,840 --> 01:59:14,160
Speaker 22: I'm like aging and I have other work that I do,

2219
01:59:14,360 --> 01:59:15,880
Speaker 22: And part of it is like I came out as trans,

2220
01:59:16,360 --> 01:59:18,720
Speaker 22: you know, part of it is like I never liked

2221
01:59:18,760 --> 01:59:20,560
Speaker 22: the idea of like because I always was trans and

2222
01:59:20,600 --> 01:59:23,560
Speaker 22: the idea of like being surrounded by only men was

2223
01:59:23,720 --> 01:59:27,760
Speaker 22: just viscerally terrifying. But now in particular, like it's just

2224
01:59:27,840 --> 01:59:31,200
Speaker 22: such a it's a mind fuck. It's terrifying, and you know,

2225
01:59:31,280 --> 01:59:33,480
Speaker 22: I feel like one of my main roles is to

2226
01:59:33,560 --> 01:59:35,920
Speaker 22: try and help people be like, look, we're in this

2227
01:59:36,120 --> 01:59:38,480
Speaker 22: together enough that you should be scared, but you should

2228
01:59:38,480 --> 01:59:40,960
Speaker 22: get through the fear. But it's like the fear of

2229
01:59:41,040 --> 01:59:43,200
Speaker 22: prison is like such a I mean, it's part of

2230
01:59:43,240 --> 01:59:44,960
Speaker 22: the reason that people say, like, no one is free

2231
01:59:45,040 --> 01:59:47,160
Speaker 22: is till everyone is free, as long as there is

2232
01:59:47,200 --> 01:59:49,920
Speaker 22: a single person in prison, you were not free because

2233
01:59:49,960 --> 01:59:52,840
Speaker 22: your freedom can be taken away from you at any point,

2234
01:59:53,240 --> 01:59:56,600
Speaker 22: and that fear of prison it's funny. Okay, I'm almost

2235
01:59:56,640 --> 01:59:58,480
Speaker 22: done with this rant. You know, people have kind of

2236
01:59:58,480 --> 02:00:01,680
Speaker 22: like figured out at this point that certain branches of

2237
02:00:01,760 --> 02:00:06,000
Speaker 22: Christianity will use the fear of hell to force people

2238
02:00:06,160 --> 02:00:09,200
Speaker 22: to be good by their definition of good right. And

2239
02:00:09,320 --> 02:00:11,560
Speaker 22: it's a scare tactic. It's terrorism. It is like a

2240
02:00:12,120 --> 02:00:15,600
Speaker 22: you know, you better behave or infinite suffering awaits you.

2241
02:00:15,920 --> 02:00:17,960
Speaker 22: But then even the people who are critical of that

2242
02:00:18,440 --> 02:00:21,720
Speaker 22: haven't necessarily wrapped their head around that. The existence of prisons,

2243
02:00:22,200 --> 02:00:25,880
Speaker 22: especially the existence of punitive prisons, like the sort of

2244
02:00:26,080 --> 02:00:29,200
Speaker 22: theoretical perfect model of the Norwegian prison or whatever, where

2245
02:00:29,240 --> 02:00:31,640
Speaker 22: you're just sort of separated from society, which I suspect

2246
02:00:31,760 --> 02:00:34,160
Speaker 22: is not actually I suspect Norwegian prison actually kind of sucks.

2247
02:00:34,480 --> 02:00:37,800
Speaker 22: But the American prison system is a prison system that

2248
02:00:37,960 --> 02:00:42,360
Speaker 22: exists to make you on the outside not feel free,

2249
02:00:42,760 --> 02:00:44,280
Speaker 22: like because it can be taken away from you and

2250
02:00:44,320 --> 02:00:45,280
Speaker 22: you can be thrown in prison.

2251
02:00:46,040 --> 02:00:49,360
Speaker 19: That's my rant, Yeah, well, I mean, you're absolutely right,

2252
02:00:49,480 --> 02:00:52,040
Speaker 19: like that is the entire goal is to make sure

2253
02:00:52,080 --> 02:00:55,640
Speaker 19: that the community walks the government line, because if you don't,

2254
02:00:55,760 --> 02:00:58,240
Speaker 19: this is what will happen to you. And when people

2255
02:00:58,440 --> 02:01:00,280
Speaker 19: pull like the nonsense of like well, if you're not

2256
02:01:00,320 --> 02:01:03,600
Speaker 19: committing crimes, you shouldn't worry about it, Like they are

2257
02:01:03,720 --> 02:01:06,640
Speaker 19: not looking at how like arbitrary crimes are. Yeah, they're

2258
02:01:06,720 --> 02:01:09,240
Speaker 19: not looking at how quickly something can become a crime,

2259
02:01:10,040 --> 02:01:12,200
Speaker 19: or how quickly something that wasn't a crime can be

2260
02:01:12,320 --> 02:01:15,560
Speaker 19: portrayed as one. And the trans struggle, like trans people

2261
02:01:15,560 --> 02:01:18,160
Speaker 19: should not have to be on the front line. Again,

2262
02:01:18,280 --> 02:01:20,960
Speaker 19: no point should you or any of our trans family

2263
02:01:21,120 --> 02:01:23,640
Speaker 19: ever have to like put their freedom on the line,

2264
02:01:23,760 --> 02:01:26,480
Speaker 19: Like that is that's a privilege role, Like that's our role,

2265
02:01:26,880 --> 02:01:30,920
Speaker 19: my role, and my boss shouldn't have to get arrested

2266
02:01:31,000 --> 02:01:33,720
Speaker 19: for transliberation. Like they should be safe, like they should

2267
02:01:33,720 --> 02:01:36,000
Speaker 19: be able to feel comfort and warmth. You should be

2268
02:01:36,040 --> 02:01:38,240
Speaker 19: able to feel that safe and warmth and love, Like

2269
02:01:38,320 --> 02:01:41,240
Speaker 19: black people shouldn't be flighting the black liberation pipe. That's

2270
02:01:41,320 --> 02:01:43,640
Speaker 19: that's white people's flight. Trans people should not have to

2271
02:01:43,680 --> 02:01:47,200
Speaker 19: put their vulnerable lives on the line for this struggle

2272
02:01:47,240 --> 02:01:49,680
Speaker 19: if we really believe in in the liberation struggle.

2273
02:01:50,440 --> 02:01:52,440
Speaker 22: Yeah, and it's hard because you also want to like

2274
02:01:53,080 --> 02:01:55,480
Speaker 22: while also not wanting to like lead that struggle. Right, Like,

2275
02:01:55,560 --> 02:01:57,480
Speaker 22: I think that like white people putting themselves on the

2276
02:01:57,560 --> 02:01:59,920
Speaker 22: line for black liberation is like super important.

2277
02:02:00,000 --> 02:02:01,840
Speaker 3: But then obviously you can get into there's the hero

2278
02:02:02,040 --> 02:02:03,879
Speaker 3: shit and trying to take a leadership.

2279
02:02:03,960 --> 02:02:07,400
Speaker 19: Yeah, do the David Gilbert role, be a soldier how

2280
02:02:07,440 --> 02:02:11,360
Speaker 19: they need you, and help and fight how people actually.

2281
02:02:11,120 --> 02:02:13,960
Speaker 3: Need you, not how you think it should be done. Yeah, totally.

2282
02:02:14,800 --> 02:02:20,480
Speaker 22: Well, any last words for our audience around this particular issue.

2283
02:02:20,920 --> 02:02:23,600
Speaker 19: Yeah, Here in Denver, Brenn Rose's Legal Center, that's who

2284
02:02:23,640 --> 02:02:26,520
Speaker 19: I work for. It's a transgender ran civil rights law firm.

2285
02:02:26,840 --> 02:02:29,720
Speaker 19: We're about to put forward the trans Bill rights here

2286
02:02:29,760 --> 02:02:33,800
Speaker 19: in Colorado to guarantee safety. And I bring that up

2287
02:02:33,880 --> 02:02:36,400
Speaker 19: to say that not only is there direct action and

2288
02:02:36,520 --> 02:02:39,480
Speaker 19: protest we can do, we can also try to weasel

2289
02:02:39,520 --> 02:02:40,520
Speaker 19: into the legal system.

2290
02:02:40,640 --> 02:02:40,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2291
02:02:41,000 --> 02:02:43,280
Speaker 19: There's a thousand ways we can fight these motherfuckers, and

2292
02:02:43,320 --> 02:02:44,800
Speaker 19: we've got to use every single one of them.

2293
02:02:44,920 --> 02:02:45,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2294
02:02:45,360 --> 02:02:48,320
Speaker 19: And I have nothing but love and solidarity for every

2295
02:02:48,400 --> 02:02:52,560
Speaker 19: transgender person alive anywhere and I'm with you, and we're

2296
02:02:52,560 --> 02:02:53,200
Speaker 19: going to get through this.

2297
02:02:53,280 --> 02:02:55,440
Speaker 22: I hope we are going to get through it, because

2298
02:02:56,280 --> 02:03:00,200
Speaker 22: even as individuals we might not, right, But that's as

2299
02:03:00,200 --> 02:03:02,640
Speaker 22: it's true about being alive, right, Literally, none of us

2300
02:03:02,680 --> 02:03:04,840
Speaker 22: are going to get through being alive alive right. At

2301
02:03:04,880 --> 02:03:07,560
Speaker 22: some point that's going to stop working for us, and

2302
02:03:07,680 --> 02:03:11,280
Speaker 22: they can't get rid of us. We have always been here,

2303
02:03:11,440 --> 02:03:13,360
Speaker 22: we will always be here as long as there are

2304
02:03:13,480 --> 02:03:15,600
Speaker 22: humans that are going to be trans people, they're going

2305
02:03:15,640 --> 02:03:18,200
Speaker 22: to be queer people, they're going to be All of

2306
02:03:18,240 --> 02:03:21,680
Speaker 22: the identities that they're trying to destroy cannot be destroyed,

2307
02:03:22,280 --> 02:03:26,600
Speaker 22: even if us as individuals might But again, we weren't.

2308
02:03:26,360 --> 02:03:28,560
Speaker 3: Going to get out of life alive anyway. That's what

2309
02:03:28,680 --> 02:03:29,280
Speaker 3: I hold on to.

2310
02:03:29,560 --> 02:03:31,120
Speaker 22: I don't know about everyone who's listening, but the thing

2311
02:03:31,160 --> 02:03:33,160
Speaker 22: that I hold onto is that just literally I was like, well,

2312
02:03:33,200 --> 02:03:33,560
Speaker 22: I wasn't.

2313
02:03:33,880 --> 02:03:36,760
Speaker 3: I'm not immortal. You know, it's got a time limit.

2314
02:03:37,040 --> 02:03:39,080
Speaker 22: Yeah, And all we can do is to say, go

2315
02:03:39,160 --> 02:03:40,520
Speaker 22: back to one of the first things that you said,

2316
02:03:40,640 --> 02:03:43,120
Speaker 22: we just kind of can't compromise our ethics, you know,

2317
02:03:43,480 --> 02:03:47,600
Speaker 22: like there's like balancing acts right where you have to think, like, well,

2318
02:03:48,080 --> 02:03:51,160
Speaker 22: I probably shouldn't do something where I like while out

2319
02:03:51,240 --> 02:03:55,040
Speaker 22: and get myself killed and accomplish nothing. Fight to win, yeah, exactly,

2320
02:03:55,440 --> 02:03:57,160
Speaker 22: and some of fighting to win is knowing when not

2321
02:03:57,280 --> 02:03:59,760
Speaker 22: to fight and things like that. Right, but but not

2322
02:04:00,000 --> 02:04:02,480
Speaker 22: and secretly you're just actually doing it at a cowardice way.

2323
02:04:02,520 --> 02:04:05,480
Speaker 22: You actually have to be strategically being like where and

2324
02:04:05,600 --> 02:04:08,360
Speaker 22: when should I engage in what ways? And there are

2325
02:04:09,120 --> 02:04:12,000
Speaker 22: so many different ways that people can engage. Yeah, thanks

2326
02:04:12,040 --> 02:04:13,560
Speaker 22: for coming on, And do you want to talk about

2327
02:04:13,640 --> 02:04:14,080
Speaker 22: your book?

2328
02:04:14,440 --> 02:04:15,960
Speaker 3: So rather than the cages out right now?

2329
02:04:16,040 --> 02:04:18,560
Speaker 19: It's with ak Press and it is a oral history

2330
02:04:18,800 --> 02:04:23,080
Speaker 19: of the political prisoner movement hold from the mouths of

2331
02:04:23,160 --> 02:04:27,560
Speaker 19: those prisoners. It covers like fifty or so prisoners from

2332
02:04:27,760 --> 02:04:32,320
Speaker 19: every movement, Black trans Our Elders are more recent anti fascists.

2333
02:04:33,000 --> 02:04:35,080
Speaker 19: And it was a beautiful way not just to hear

2334
02:04:35,120 --> 02:04:37,440
Speaker 19: about like oh I fought for this, but what was

2335
02:04:37,520 --> 02:04:38,680
Speaker 19: my life like inside?

2336
02:04:39,040 --> 02:04:40,000
Speaker 3: What did I experience?

2337
02:04:40,120 --> 02:04:42,160
Speaker 19: What gave me joy? What gave me hope, what gave

2338
02:04:42,240 --> 02:04:45,000
Speaker 19: me sadness? And it's a way to see the vulnerability

2339
02:04:45,000 --> 02:04:47,640
Speaker 19: and humanity of those inside. And I think that's really

2340
02:04:47,720 --> 02:04:51,080
Speaker 19: valuable right now and here soon my ADX book is

2341
02:04:51,120 --> 02:04:53,880
Speaker 19: coming out on them press. Oh cool, so I'll be

2342
02:04:54,280 --> 02:04:56,520
Speaker 19: I'll be hounding you for that here soon, for that coverage.

2343
02:04:56,640 --> 02:04:59,400
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, Wait, well what's that book callor about.

2344
02:05:00,080 --> 02:05:02,480
Speaker 19: It's gonna be called a clean hell, and it's gonna

2345
02:05:02,480 --> 02:05:04,960
Speaker 19: be about how I want it trial, because no one

2346
02:05:05,040 --> 02:05:07,800
Speaker 19: does that in the Feds. Zero point zero eight percent

2347
02:05:07,800 --> 02:05:10,200
Speaker 19: of people win in federal trial. And then how I

2348
02:05:10,240 --> 02:05:12,680
Speaker 19: got sent to the federal supermax and there's no books

2349
02:05:12,680 --> 02:05:16,600
Speaker 19: out about the supermax, there's none. Well, and so one

2350
02:05:16,640 --> 02:05:18,720
Speaker 19: of your homies has the inside scoop.

2351
02:05:18,920 --> 02:05:22,160
Speaker 22: Yeah I got Yeah, you were just an undercover journalist,

2352
02:05:22,320 --> 02:05:25,880
Speaker 22: just a real undercover solitary confinement.

2353
02:05:27,160 --> 02:05:29,320
Speaker 3: So had Josh Davidson is helping me edit it.

2354
02:05:29,880 --> 02:05:33,200
Speaker 19: Josh Davidson from rather than the Cages, who did also

2355
02:05:33,280 --> 02:05:33,840
Speaker 19: certain days.

2356
02:05:34,120 --> 02:05:36,839
Speaker 3: So it's seemed been a really great project, Carlso awesome.

2357
02:05:37,160 --> 02:05:39,280
Speaker 22: All right, Well, people should check out both of those

2358
02:05:39,360 --> 02:05:42,920
Speaker 22: things and take care of people inside. And I hope

2359
02:05:42,960 --> 02:05:44,080
Speaker 22: that we'll have you one again soon.

2360
02:05:44,280 --> 02:05:45,360
Speaker 3: Yay, thank you so much.

2361
02:06:06,320 --> 02:06:11,000
Speaker 13: It could happen here. I'm Garrison Davis, and yeah, it's happening.

2362
02:06:11,720 --> 02:06:13,800
Speaker 13: The past few years I've been writing about how the

2363
02:06:13,840 --> 02:06:16,480
Speaker 13: religious right has been trying to roll back trans rights,

2364
02:06:16,920 --> 02:06:20,200
Speaker 13: take away gender affirming health care, and essentially remove trans

2365
02:06:20,240 --> 02:06:23,720
Speaker 13: people from public life. And the day that I'm writing this,

2366
02:06:24,160 --> 02:06:27,360
Speaker 13: President Trump just issued an executive order aiming to ban

2367
02:06:27,560 --> 02:06:30,080
Speaker 13: gender affirming health care for everyone below the age of

2368
02:06:30,320 --> 02:06:34,680
Speaker 13: nineteen in the United States, with promises to weaponize the

2369
02:06:34,960 --> 02:06:38,760
Speaker 13: Justice Department and alter the national Health guidelines for gender

2370
02:06:38,800 --> 02:06:44,160
Speaker 13: affirming care. And unfortunately this is just the start. But

2371
02:06:44,520 --> 02:06:47,880
Speaker 13: this won't be a wallowing in the doom and gloom episode,

2372
02:06:48,600 --> 02:06:51,320
Speaker 13: nor will I be laying out the fool proof solution

2373
02:06:51,880 --> 02:06:55,320
Speaker 13: to get us out of this predicament. Instead, we'll be

2374
02:06:55,400 --> 02:06:58,839
Speaker 13: hearing from two people who are trying to do something

2375
02:06:59,080 --> 02:07:03,680
Speaker 13: to affect change in the physical world. Last month, Mia

2376
02:07:03,760 --> 02:07:07,080
Speaker 13: and I talked with Neha and Cassie, who are organizers

2377
02:07:07,120 --> 02:07:11,600
Speaker 13: and baristas with Starbucks workers Unite It, and they also

2378
02:07:11,720 --> 02:07:16,560
Speaker 13: co facilitate that union's trans Rights action committee called Track.

2379
02:07:17,680 --> 02:07:20,920
Speaker 3: And specifically, the topic of this episode is how.

2380
02:07:20,840 --> 02:07:23,240
Speaker 13: To use union organizing as a way to fight for

2381
02:07:23,360 --> 02:07:27,960
Speaker 13: trans rights and secure access to gender affirming healthcare, which

2382
02:07:28,080 --> 02:07:33,040
Speaker 13: is unfortunately an increasingly critical issue. We've already had conservative

2383
02:07:33,080 --> 02:07:37,520
Speaker 13: states like Tennessee pressuring private insurance companies to drop covering

2384
02:07:37,680 --> 02:07:41,400
Speaker 13: gender affirming care by blocking insurers from contracting with the

2385
02:07:41,480 --> 02:07:45,880
Speaker 13: state's medicaid program, basically holding it hostage. And now with

2386
02:07:46,000 --> 02:07:50,000
Speaker 13: the federal government threatening gender affirming care and seemingly more

2387
02:07:50,080 --> 02:07:53,960
Speaker 13: and more restrictions kind of on the horizon, working outside

2388
02:07:54,040 --> 02:07:57,360
Speaker 13: the state and not relying on government programs like Medicare

2389
02:07:57,400 --> 02:08:02,360
Speaker 13: and Medicaid will only become more and union organizing is

2390
02:08:02,520 --> 02:08:06,880
Speaker 13: one way to do that. A union contract, union infrastructure,

2391
02:08:07,240 --> 02:08:09,680
Speaker 13: and the collective resources of you and your fellow union

2392
02:08:09,760 --> 02:08:12,640
Speaker 13: workers can help protect trans people in the workplace and

2393
02:08:12,840 --> 02:08:16,000
Speaker 13: get us the things we need. If you already have

2394
02:08:16,160 --> 02:08:18,680
Speaker 13: a union at your workplace, you can get more involved

2395
02:08:18,840 --> 02:08:21,800
Speaker 13: and fight to prioritize trans rights. And if you don't

2396
02:08:21,880 --> 02:08:24,280
Speaker 13: have a union, you can work to secure access to

2397
02:08:24,360 --> 02:08:27,920
Speaker 13: gender affirm and care through unionizing your workplace and having

2398
02:08:28,000 --> 02:08:31,960
Speaker 13: healthcare protections as a core part of your contract. For

2399
02:08:32,120 --> 02:08:34,240
Speaker 13: more on that topic, I'm going to play the conversation

2400
02:08:34,440 --> 02:08:38,400
Speaker 13: between my fellow union member Mia and Neha and Cassie

2401
02:08:38,600 --> 02:08:42,560
Speaker 13: from Starbucks Workers United, and I'll occasionally pop back in

2402
02:08:42,720 --> 02:08:45,360
Speaker 13: to provide some context. Here's Cassie.

2403
02:08:46,080 --> 02:08:49,520
Speaker 23: When you fight for a collective bargaining agreement, a contract

2404
02:08:49,640 --> 02:08:54,120
Speaker 23: between union workers and their employer. You can fight for

2405
02:08:54,960 --> 02:08:58,480
Speaker 23: gender affirming care to be included in the healthcare that's provided,

2406
02:08:58,520 --> 02:09:01,400
Speaker 23: and make sure that that healthcare is afforded and actually

2407
02:09:01,480 --> 02:09:04,520
Speaker 23: usable by the people working there, and that their wages

2408
02:09:04,520 --> 02:09:08,240
Speaker 23: are adequate to cover out of pocket expenses, including travel

2409
02:09:08,320 --> 02:09:11,120
Speaker 23: expenses if you live in a state that's coming under threat.

2410
02:09:11,840 --> 02:09:14,760
Speaker 13: But it is not just healthcare that is under threat

2411
02:09:14,880 --> 02:09:18,880
Speaker 13: right now. Just days into office, Trump already started to

2412
02:09:19,080 --> 02:09:24,120
Speaker 13: roll back Biden era federal discrimination protections. Last Monday, the

2413
02:09:24,200 --> 02:09:27,800
Speaker 13: Trump Badman sent a memo ordering a freeze to all

2414
02:09:28,000 --> 02:09:32,320
Speaker 13: federal grants, loans, and aid, requiring a sort of audit

2415
02:09:32,560 --> 02:09:35,680
Speaker 13: to ensure the recipients of those funds use the money

2416
02:09:35,760 --> 02:09:40,120
Speaker 13: in a way that quote conforms to the administration priorities unquote,

2417
02:09:40,560 --> 02:09:46,200
Speaker 13: and not to promote quote dei and woke gender ideology unquote.

2418
02:09:47,400 --> 02:09:51,040
Speaker 13: On Tuesday, a judge temporarily halted the order, and on

2419
02:09:51,160 --> 02:09:55,080
Speaker 13: Wednesday the White House provoked the directive. But this clearly

2420
02:09:55,200 --> 02:09:59,120
Speaker 13: demonstrates what the new priorities are for the Conservative government,

2421
02:09:59,600 --> 02:10:02,960
Speaker 13: and they we'll most certainly try this again, probably in

2422
02:10:03,040 --> 02:10:08,000
Speaker 13: a more targeted, discriminatory fashion, to limit the general backlash.

2423
02:10:08,880 --> 02:10:12,600
Speaker 13: But even as the government starts openly allowing discrimination or

2424
02:10:12,800 --> 02:10:17,360
Speaker 13: even encouraging it, discrimination protections is still something that unions

2425
02:10:17,400 --> 02:10:19,000
Speaker 13: can write into their contract.

2426
02:10:19,520 --> 02:10:24,640
Speaker 23: Having non discrimination language in a contract that covers gender

2427
02:10:24,760 --> 02:10:29,080
Speaker 23: identity is a really critical way to improve not just

2428
02:10:29,160 --> 02:10:31,080
Speaker 23: for yourself, but then also we talk about these things

2429
02:10:31,120 --> 02:10:34,600
Speaker 23: like hiring discrimination. If you get that kind of language

2430
02:10:34,600 --> 02:10:37,040
Speaker 23: in a contract at a union job, that's going to

2431
02:10:37,080 --> 02:10:40,600
Speaker 23: help everyone who comes after you. Because additionally, as a

2432
02:10:40,720 --> 02:10:44,120
Speaker 23: union you have the mechanism of enforcement of a grievance

2433
02:10:44,240 --> 02:10:47,560
Speaker 23: and an arbitration procedure. Right, that's sort of, you know,

2434
02:10:47,640 --> 02:10:50,280
Speaker 23: the critical in addition to obviously all the kind of

2435
02:10:50,360 --> 02:10:53,480
Speaker 23: actions you can perform. And you know, we can talk

2436
02:10:53,480 --> 02:10:55,800
Speaker 23: about what things might look like without the NLRA, but

2437
02:10:56,440 --> 02:10:59,200
Speaker 23: for now, we have grievance and arbitration procedures still. And

2438
02:11:00,160 --> 02:11:04,040
Speaker 23: in states where there are legal protections against employment discrimination

2439
02:11:04,200 --> 02:11:07,440
Speaker 23: for trans people, like here in California, the bar to

2440
02:11:08,400 --> 02:11:12,040
Speaker 23: defending yourself legally is obviously a lot higher, including financially,

2441
02:11:12,800 --> 02:11:17,040
Speaker 23: than defending yourself through a grievance procedure at a union job.

2442
02:11:17,440 --> 02:11:17,560
Speaker 14: Right.

2443
02:11:18,040 --> 02:11:20,480
Speaker 23: A grievance procedure at a union job is way more

2444
02:11:20,600 --> 02:11:23,680
Speaker 23: accessible to the average working person than hiring a lawyer

2445
02:11:24,000 --> 02:11:26,800
Speaker 23: and going through a legal system that is totally stacked

2446
02:11:26,800 --> 02:11:30,120
Speaker 23: against you and in favor of the wealthy. Having a

2447
02:11:30,240 --> 02:11:33,560
Speaker 23: union to defend you, you know, with the collective resources

2448
02:11:34,160 --> 02:11:37,880
Speaker 23: of your union that you're part of, and having your

2449
02:11:37,920 --> 02:11:40,480
Speaker 23: shop steward or you be a shop steward and filing

2450
02:11:40,520 --> 02:11:44,560
Speaker 23: those grievances yourself. It's so much more accessible for regular

2451
02:11:44,600 --> 02:11:49,240
Speaker 23: workers to get enforcement when they are discriminated against. And

2452
02:11:49,360 --> 02:11:51,640
Speaker 23: that's obviously not only relevant for trans people, but it

2453
02:11:51,760 --> 02:11:53,480
Speaker 23: is certainly relevant for trans people.

2454
02:11:53,960 --> 02:11:57,560
Speaker 13: Now, if you don't have union organizing experience, this could

2455
02:11:57,600 --> 02:12:00,960
Speaker 13: all seem a little intimidating, even if you already have

2456
02:12:01,080 --> 02:12:04,480
Speaker 13: a pre existing union at your workplace. MIA has done

2457
02:12:04,480 --> 02:12:07,320
Speaker 13: a whole bunch of episodes on unions and labor organizing

2458
02:12:07,400 --> 02:12:10,120
Speaker 13: on this podcast you could certainly look to for more

2459
02:12:10,160 --> 02:12:14,040
Speaker 13: information and a bit of encouragement. In twenty twenty three,

2460
02:12:14,280 --> 02:12:18,240
Speaker 13: Neha co founded TRACK, the Trans Rights Action Committee, which

2461
02:12:18,320 --> 02:12:21,560
Speaker 13: is a subcommittee of the Starbucks union that was started

2462
02:12:21,720 --> 02:12:24,720
Speaker 13: to help advocate for trans rights within the union and

2463
02:12:24,880 --> 02:12:29,840
Speaker 13: share information about the challenges trans workers were experiencing. We

2464
02:12:29,960 --> 02:12:33,440
Speaker 13: asked Neha about the process of getting this focus on

2465
02:12:33,560 --> 02:12:37,120
Speaker 13: securing trans healthcare through your union to be something that

2466
02:12:37,240 --> 02:12:41,360
Speaker 13: the union collectively fights for the way that our union.

2467
02:12:41,200 --> 02:12:44,440
Speaker 15: Started focusing on trans healthcare as one of the core

2468
02:12:44,600 --> 02:12:48,320
Speaker 15: issues isite we weren't organizing around. And all started with

2469
02:12:48,520 --> 02:12:52,760
Speaker 15: a conversation with like a regional staffer here in Oklahoma.

2470
02:12:53,440 --> 02:12:57,320
Speaker 15: I have like a regular check and call with my staffer,

2471
02:12:58,120 --> 02:13:00,560
Speaker 15: and this was like two two and a half years ago,

2472
02:13:01,400 --> 02:13:03,320
Speaker 15: and he was just like asking, you know, what's going on?

2473
02:13:03,680 --> 02:13:07,040
Speaker 15: What are you concerned about? And I was like, well,

2474
02:13:07,240 --> 02:13:11,400
Speaker 15: I'm having some issues with like accessing health care, and

2475
02:13:11,800 --> 02:13:15,800
Speaker 15: he not heard like how difficult it was for like

2476
02:13:15,920 --> 02:13:19,240
Speaker 15: trans people to access healthcare and Starbucks. He wasn't aware

2477
02:13:19,240 --> 02:13:21,840
Speaker 15: of like how expensive it could be. And as I

2478
02:13:21,880 --> 02:13:24,840
Speaker 15: started talking to him, he was like, hold on, let

2479
02:13:24,920 --> 02:13:27,120
Speaker 15: me like set up a meeting with some other people.

2480
02:13:27,280 --> 02:13:29,600
Speaker 15: I think they need to hear this too. So then

2481
02:13:29,640 --> 02:13:31,880
Speaker 15: we have like a follow up meeting with more like

2482
02:13:32,000 --> 02:13:36,080
Speaker 15: staff and other organizers. I talked about these issues again,

2483
02:13:36,840 --> 02:13:40,040
Speaker 15: and one thing led to another thing, and they ended

2484
02:13:40,120 --> 02:13:43,720
Speaker 15: up encouraging me to form a subcommittee with their union

2485
02:13:44,360 --> 02:13:47,600
Speaker 15: for trans workers to kind of like build community for

2486
02:13:47,720 --> 02:13:51,440
Speaker 15: us and connect us, but also hear more stories from

2487
02:13:51,560 --> 02:13:55,480
Speaker 15: trans workers about the struggles that they were facing, specifically

2488
02:13:55,600 --> 02:14:00,680
Speaker 15: in accessing healthcare. And so that's kind of how TRACK started.

2489
02:14:01,520 --> 02:14:05,280
Speaker 15: And it's been really moving to see how over the

2490
02:14:05,320 --> 02:14:08,440
Speaker 15: past like two three years, this went from like an

2491
02:14:08,520 --> 02:14:11,360
Speaker 15: issue that was affecting like a minority of a minority

2492
02:14:11,400 --> 02:14:14,760
Speaker 15: of workers, right, Like, it's not like every single work

2493
02:14:14,800 --> 02:14:18,400
Speaker 15: at Starbucks is trying to like have facial combinization surgery

2494
02:14:18,800 --> 02:14:22,600
Speaker 15: or anything like that. Right This issue that was affecting

2495
02:14:22,680 --> 02:14:25,680
Speaker 15: like a small step set of us ended up becoming

2496
02:14:25,920 --> 02:14:28,800
Speaker 15: like one of the biggest issues we were organizing around.

2497
02:14:29,240 --> 02:14:31,040
Speaker 15: It makes me really emotional when I think about like

2498
02:14:31,200 --> 02:14:36,680
Speaker 15: how much my union coworkers and like my comrades like

2499
02:14:36,800 --> 02:14:40,800
Speaker 15: actually like fucking care about trans people. Right of kind

2500
02:14:40,840 --> 02:14:44,080
Speaker 15: of like how TRACKS started and how we started to

2501
02:14:44,440 --> 02:14:46,680
Speaker 15: organize around trans healthcare specifically.

2502
02:14:47,360 --> 02:14:49,560
Speaker 23: It's been a focus for us for a long time.

2503
02:14:50,200 --> 02:14:53,760
Speaker 23: Also in part because the initial you know, our public

2504
02:14:54,880 --> 02:14:57,920
Speaker 23: bargaining proposals that were released early on when we first

2505
02:14:58,000 --> 02:15:03,280
Speaker 23: formulated our demands in included improvements to gender affirming care

2506
02:15:03,400 --> 02:15:04,120
Speaker 23: at Starbucks.

2507
02:15:04,520 --> 02:15:05,920
Speaker 3: And part of that's because there.

2508
02:15:05,840 --> 02:15:10,680
Speaker 23: Were trans people involved in writing those initial demands right,

2509
02:15:11,440 --> 02:15:16,160
Speaker 23: and you know, Neihaw was involved nationally in the campaign

2510
02:15:16,520 --> 02:15:21,480
Speaker 23: and had the opportunity and the encouragement to start track.

2511
02:15:22,200 --> 02:15:23,600
Speaker 3: You know, we have to be part of it.

2512
02:15:23,840 --> 02:15:26,560
Speaker 23: I think is on some level, you know, the most

2513
02:15:26,600 --> 02:15:30,880
Speaker 23: basic prerequisite for everything that came after is because trans

2514
02:15:30,960 --> 02:15:34,240
Speaker 23: people have been involved with this campaign from the beginning.

2515
02:15:34,800 --> 02:15:37,800
Speaker 23: We do have so much support and solidarity from our

2516
02:15:37,840 --> 02:15:41,840
Speaker 23: coworkers and from our fellow union comrades, regardless of whether

2517
02:15:41,920 --> 02:15:45,640
Speaker 23: they're SIS or trans, and I think part of that

2518
02:15:45,800 --> 02:15:48,120
Speaker 23: is because we've really showed up and done the work.

2519
02:15:48,760 --> 02:15:51,040
Speaker 23: This again goes to that kind of like false narrative

2520
02:15:51,080 --> 02:15:54,880
Speaker 23: of there's like some kind of contention between workers' rights

2521
02:15:55,040 --> 02:15:57,960
Speaker 23: and trans rights. It's like trans people have been super

2522
02:15:58,040 --> 02:16:00,760
Speaker 23: motivated to get involved in this camp pain and fight

2523
02:16:01,000 --> 02:16:04,800
Speaker 23: for the rights and benefits for every worker at Starbucks.

2524
02:16:05,600 --> 02:16:08,640
Speaker 23: Other workers have seen that, seen the way we've been

2525
02:16:08,720 --> 02:16:12,760
Speaker 23: involved and dedicated, and that's given them the sympathy and

2526
02:16:12,800 --> 02:16:15,520
Speaker 23: solidarity to stand by us for an issue that affects

2527
02:16:15,600 --> 02:16:18,400
Speaker 23: us very you know, directly and somewhat narrowly compared to

2528
02:16:18,440 --> 02:16:22,000
Speaker 23: a lot of the other things we're fighting for. So yeah,

2529
02:16:22,120 --> 02:16:25,320
Speaker 23: on some level, I think it comes down to unions

2530
02:16:25,360 --> 02:16:29,200
Speaker 23: are a place where trans people can get involved in

2531
02:16:29,240 --> 02:16:30,960
Speaker 23: political life in a way that's hard to do in

2532
02:16:31,080 --> 02:16:34,520
Speaker 23: other parts of American political life. And you get to

2533
02:16:34,520 --> 02:16:37,680
Speaker 23: build that solidarity, and if you're there at the table,

2534
02:16:38,360 --> 02:16:41,600
Speaker 23: you have a chance to highlight the issues that are

2535
02:16:41,640 --> 02:16:43,640
Speaker 23: important to us. And if you're fighting for everyone else,

2536
02:16:43,680 --> 02:16:44,960
Speaker 23: they're going to want to fight for you too.

2537
02:16:45,840 --> 02:16:50,000
Speaker 13: Track's logo says trans rights are labor rights, a phrase

2538
02:16:50,120 --> 02:16:52,520
Speaker 13: one of Nahe's co workers came up with to express

2539
02:16:52,680 --> 02:16:56,560
Speaker 13: the idea that even if your state becomes an unsafe

2540
02:16:56,600 --> 02:16:59,960
Speaker 13: place for queer and trans people, trans people will still

2541
02:17:00,240 --> 02:17:03,520
Speaker 13: fight to ensure that their workplace, their store, is a

2542
02:17:03,680 --> 02:17:07,680
Speaker 13: safe place for any trans person who works there. As

2543
02:17:07,800 --> 02:17:10,400
Speaker 13: the functioning of the state and the federal government becomes

2544
02:17:10,879 --> 02:17:14,199
Speaker 13: more and more alienated and distant, or in many cases,

2545
02:17:14,400 --> 02:17:17,800
Speaker 13: increasingly hostile to the likes of you and me, one

2546
02:17:17,840 --> 02:17:20,320
Speaker 13: of the few ways we can still exert power over

2547
02:17:20,400 --> 02:17:24,560
Speaker 13: our lives is through unions, regardless of whether you live

2548
02:17:24,720 --> 02:17:30,039
Speaker 13: in Portland, Oregon, or Oklahoma City, and specifically, as access

2549
02:17:30,120 --> 02:17:33,360
Speaker 13: to trans healthcare becomes more and more of a growing issue,

2550
02:17:33,959 --> 02:17:36,400
Speaker 13: this is becoming more of a core issue itself. That

2551
02:17:36,520 --> 02:17:39,959
Speaker 13: you can organize around and can actually build a union around.

2552
02:17:40,560 --> 02:17:44,680
Speaker 23: Lots of different struggles have been highlighted in our campaign.

2553
02:17:44,720 --> 02:17:48,840
Speaker 23: You know, we have really made racial justice a major

2554
02:17:48,920 --> 02:17:52,080
Speaker 23: priority as well. I mean, obviously economic justice is at

2555
02:17:52,080 --> 02:17:55,640
Speaker 23: the core of any union struggle, but you know, we're

2556
02:17:56,520 --> 02:18:01,320
Speaker 23: really invested in making sure all workers are included in

2557
02:18:01,440 --> 02:18:04,200
Speaker 23: this movement and their specific concerns are represented as well

2558
02:18:04,200 --> 02:18:08,080
Speaker 23: as our general shared concerns. And as more and more

2559
02:18:08,120 --> 02:18:11,279
Speaker 23: things get taken away at the level of federal politics

2560
02:18:11,360 --> 02:18:14,440
Speaker 23: and state politics in many places, people will be looking

2561
02:18:14,560 --> 02:18:17,160
Speaker 23: for recourse. It's like, how do I get back the stability,

2562
02:18:17,240 --> 02:18:22,199
Speaker 23: the protections, the dignity, the power that I've lost, particularly

2563
02:18:22,320 --> 02:18:25,320
Speaker 23: if you know some of these folks are not super

2564
02:18:25,440 --> 02:18:29,280
Speaker 23: democratically accountable. People will be looking for how they can

2565
02:18:29,560 --> 02:18:34,680
Speaker 23: build power and how they can find security when the

2566
02:18:34,959 --> 02:18:37,320
Speaker 23: state is not providing it and when the state's actively

2567
02:18:37,400 --> 02:18:43,040
Speaker 23: undermining it. Actually, and unions are one of the truly critical,

2568
02:18:43,120 --> 02:18:48,240
Speaker 23: irreplaceable answers for protecting yourself, for protecting the people you

2569
02:18:48,320 --> 02:18:52,000
Speaker 23: work with, for protecting your community, and for taking back

2570
02:18:52,320 --> 02:18:55,200
Speaker 23: some of the things that they're trying to take away

2571
02:18:55,240 --> 02:19:00,960
Speaker 23: from you, whether that's on the job protections, whether that'sanomic equality,

2572
02:19:01,040 --> 02:19:04,840
Speaker 23: whether that is your access to trans healthcare, whether that's

2573
02:19:05,000 --> 02:19:10,199
Speaker 23: protections from racism or misogynistic discrimination in your job and harassment,

2574
02:19:11,000 --> 02:19:14,640
Speaker 23: all of these things. If the state steps away, people

2575
02:19:14,760 --> 02:19:20,080
Speaker 23: should and will look to labor organizing as the answer instead.

2576
02:19:20,640 --> 02:19:24,680
Speaker 15: Our ability to build power in this way is a

2577
02:19:24,760 --> 02:19:27,200
Speaker 15: way that we maintain hope so that we can keep

2578
02:19:27,360 --> 02:19:30,080
Speaker 15: organizing for a better future. I think one of the

2579
02:19:30,120 --> 02:19:34,760
Speaker 15: best tools like these fucking fascist freaks have is making

2580
02:19:34,840 --> 02:19:37,360
Speaker 15: us feel like there's no hope. It's beating us down,

2581
02:19:37,640 --> 02:19:40,200
Speaker 15: it's making us feel like we have no power, it's

2582
02:19:40,240 --> 02:19:45,039
Speaker 15: making us feel completely disconnected from the government, our workplace,

2583
02:19:45,280 --> 02:19:48,120
Speaker 15: all of these different things that like exert power over us.

2584
02:19:48,720 --> 02:19:50,880
Speaker 15: And I think labor is such a direct way to

2585
02:19:51,000 --> 02:19:52,840
Speaker 15: give people that power back.

2586
02:19:53,480 --> 02:19:55,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, Morales a terran a struggle, and this is a

2587
02:19:55,840 --> 02:19:58,520
Speaker 3: way that you can fight there that does other things

2588
02:19:58,600 --> 02:20:02,039
Speaker 3: too at the same time, critically important and.

2589
02:20:02,240 --> 02:20:05,280
Speaker 13: Do you know what else is important? Being subservient to

2590
02:20:05,440 --> 02:20:07,640
Speaker 13: the capitalist impulse of pivoting to ads.

2591
02:20:17,760 --> 02:20:18,640
Speaker 3: Okay, we are back.

2592
02:20:19,160 --> 02:20:21,800
Speaker 13: Here is more of our interview with Starbucks workers.

2593
02:20:21,840 --> 02:20:22,320
Speaker 11: You needed.

2594
02:20:23,800 --> 02:20:26,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm excited to talk to you because things have

2595
02:20:26,600 --> 02:20:29,680
Speaker 3: been very bad. And one of the specific ways that

2596
02:20:29,760 --> 02:20:32,160
Speaker 3: they've been very bad is that there's become this framing

2597
02:20:32,280 --> 02:20:34,760
Speaker 3: and this has been around for a while, but it's

2598
02:20:34,800 --> 02:20:39,200
Speaker 3: getting sort of increasingly adopted in mainstream circles that trans

2599
02:20:39,320 --> 02:20:43,480
Speaker 3: rights are opposed to workers' rights, and that's just nonsense.

2600
02:20:44,000 --> 02:20:46,840
Speaker 3: So I wanted to sort of start there with a

2601
02:20:46,879 --> 02:20:49,080
Speaker 3: bit of a discussion about, well, the ways in which

2602
02:20:49,120 --> 02:20:50,920
Speaker 3: the trans struggle is a worker struggle.

2603
02:20:51,560 --> 02:20:56,640
Speaker 15: The trans community is like disproportionately like impoverished, like a

2604
02:20:56,720 --> 02:21:00,480
Speaker 15: lot of us are struggling to just pay for rent,

2605
02:21:00,680 --> 02:21:03,840
Speaker 15: are basic like needs, right, Yeah, I think that's firmly

2606
02:21:03,959 --> 02:21:08,320
Speaker 15: assumes that like all trans people are like, I don't know, rich, working,

2607
02:21:08,440 --> 02:21:11,320
Speaker 15: attack or some shit like that, which just is not true.

2608
02:21:12,000 --> 02:21:14,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. The actual stats, by the way, these are running

2609
02:21:14,280 --> 02:21:16,600
Speaker 3: from the US Trans Survey, which is the largest survey

2610
02:21:16,680 --> 02:21:19,000
Speaker 3: of trans people in the US. Thirty four percent poverty

2611
02:21:19,080 --> 02:21:21,560
Speaker 3: rate than the national number for assist people is eleven percent.

2612
02:21:21,920 --> 02:21:25,080
Speaker 3: The unemployment rate is eighteen percent. The US uneployment rate

2613
02:21:25,120 --> 02:21:27,840
Speaker 3: assists people is four percent, eighteen percent is nineteen thirty

2614
02:21:27,840 --> 02:21:31,320
Speaker 3: six great depression levels of unemployment. Thirty percent of trans

2615
02:21:31,400 --> 02:21:34,080
Speaker 3: people have experienced homelessness in their lives. The national rate

2616
02:21:34,160 --> 02:21:36,040
Speaker 3: is about seven percent, and those numbers are actually very

2617
02:21:36,120 --> 02:21:40,600
Speaker 3: misleading because it's actually much worse than that, because these

2618
02:21:40,680 --> 02:21:45,320
Speaker 3: demographics skew young significantly because of both the shortness of

2619
02:21:45,360 --> 02:21:47,560
Speaker 3: our life expectancy and how often we get killed. And

2620
02:21:47,800 --> 02:21:50,879
Speaker 3: also there's more people who are realizing that they're trans

2621
02:21:51,000 --> 02:21:54,080
Speaker 3: now than there ever has before, So those homelessness numbers

2622
02:21:54,400 --> 02:21:56,840
Speaker 3: are we are racking up a rate of homelessness that

2623
02:21:56,959 --> 02:21:59,440
Speaker 3: is four times higher than the regular rate, and we're

2624
02:21:59,480 --> 02:22:02,560
Speaker 3: doing it in significantly less years than it takes the

2625
02:22:02,600 --> 02:22:05,600
Speaker 3: CIS population to rack up these levels of homelessness. So

2626
02:22:06,480 --> 02:22:10,800
Speaker 3: things are extremely bad for trans people. Transfems make like

2627
02:22:10,879 --> 02:22:13,600
Speaker 3: sixty cents on the dollar of like the average American worker.

2628
02:22:14,240 --> 02:22:16,600
Speaker 23: Yeah, and I think you see that in our union.

2629
02:22:17,600 --> 02:22:21,640
Speaker 23: We have a lot of worker leaders who are trans.

2630
02:22:22,000 --> 02:22:25,560
Speaker 23: It's a noticeable obvious fact about our unions that trans

2631
02:22:25,600 --> 02:22:29,360
Speaker 23: people have really been deeply involved since day one at

2632
02:22:29,400 --> 02:22:32,560
Speaker 23: all levels of this union. And I think part of

2633
02:22:32,600 --> 02:22:37,360
Speaker 23: that is because Starbucks has been associated as a place

2634
02:22:37,440 --> 02:22:42,040
Speaker 23: of economic stability and opportunity for trans healthcare for a

2635
02:22:42,120 --> 02:22:45,480
Speaker 23: community that has relatively few opportunities. I mean, if you're

2636
02:22:45,480 --> 02:22:49,360
Speaker 23: talking about eighteen percent unemployment. Then you're talking about people

2637
02:22:49,360 --> 02:22:52,760
Speaker 23: who certainly are going to have difficulty getting employer provided healthcare,

2638
02:22:53,040 --> 02:22:57,039
Speaker 23: let alone employer provided healthcare that's going to include gender

2639
02:22:57,080 --> 02:23:03,320
Speaker 23: affirming care, right, And so Starbucks has been held up

2640
02:23:03,360 --> 02:23:05,920
Speaker 23: as an opportunity for that for a lot of people.

2641
02:23:06,920 --> 02:23:09,840
Speaker 23: It's obviously drawn a lot of us to the company.

2642
02:23:09,959 --> 02:23:12,280
Speaker 23: Many of us started working there for that exact reason,

2643
02:23:13,160 --> 02:23:16,640
Speaker 23: and then, you know, have discovered in many cases that

2644
02:23:16,840 --> 02:23:19,840
Speaker 23: it's actually not so accessible. You know, I can say

2645
02:23:19,879 --> 02:23:23,160
Speaker 23: in my case, it's definitely one reason I started working

2646
02:23:23,200 --> 02:23:25,200
Speaker 23: at Starbucks because I heard like, hey, if you want

2647
02:23:25,280 --> 02:23:27,439
Speaker 23: facial feminization surgery, go work at Starbucks.

2648
02:23:27,920 --> 02:23:29,280
Speaker 3: That was a community tip.

2649
02:23:29,959 --> 02:23:32,560
Speaker 23: And then it turned out that I made so little

2650
02:23:32,560 --> 02:23:35,320
Speaker 23: money that I qualified for Medicaid, And in California, where

2651
02:23:35,320 --> 02:23:39,080
Speaker 23: I'm lucky enough to live for now, Medicaid covers those

2652
02:23:39,120 --> 02:23:43,440
Speaker 23: things and is more affordable and accessible than the Starbucks

2653
02:23:43,480 --> 02:23:47,279
Speaker 23: healthcare actually was, So I ended up relying on Medicaid instead.

2654
02:23:47,959 --> 02:23:49,880
Speaker 23: And I think a lot of us have felt and

2655
02:23:49,959 --> 02:23:54,840
Speaker 23: seen that dissonance between coming to this company looking for opportunity,

2656
02:23:54,920 --> 02:23:57,640
Speaker 23: looking for a place that is inclusive and will hire

2657
02:23:57,680 --> 02:24:01,920
Speaker 23: trans workers, it says, and ostensibly offers trans healthcare, but

2658
02:24:02,000 --> 02:24:05,320
Speaker 23: then finding out where those gaps are and realizing like,

2659
02:24:05,600 --> 02:24:08,800
Speaker 23: actually it's better for me to stay on Medicaid, which

2660
02:24:08,879 --> 02:24:10,920
Speaker 23: is easy to do because I make so little money

2661
02:24:10,959 --> 02:24:14,200
Speaker 23: at this job. It takes that shine off. And I think,

2662
02:24:14,879 --> 02:24:17,960
Speaker 23: you know, our economic vulnerability as a group is precisely

2663
02:24:18,000 --> 02:24:21,440
Speaker 23: what drove a lot of us to seek improvements here.

2664
02:24:21,560 --> 02:24:24,760
Speaker 23: It's related to our transness, sure, but it's also like

2665
02:24:25,520 --> 02:24:29,520
Speaker 23: just fundamental working class issues. We need better wages, we

2666
02:24:29,600 --> 02:24:32,840
Speaker 23: need better healthcare. You know, that's something everyone benefits from

2667
02:24:32,879 --> 02:24:33,840
Speaker 23: and everyone can relate to.

2668
02:24:34,560 --> 02:24:36,320
Speaker 15: And I mean, I can also attest to the fact

2669
02:24:36,360 --> 02:24:40,920
Speaker 15: that I started at Starbucks five years ago because I

2670
02:24:42,200 --> 02:24:45,720
Speaker 15: needed to have access and gender firming care. I was

2671
02:24:45,760 --> 02:24:49,440
Speaker 15: coming from a situation where I came out as a teenager.

2672
02:24:49,800 --> 02:24:52,960
Speaker 15: I was disowned and kicked out by my family. I

2673
02:24:53,160 --> 02:24:56,720
Speaker 15: didn't have access to college. I was like basically on

2674
02:24:56,800 --> 02:24:59,480
Speaker 15: my own right, and I had no idea how I'm

2675
02:24:59,480 --> 02:25:03,240
Speaker 15: going to matter transision, and like older trans women in

2676
02:25:03,320 --> 02:25:06,400
Speaker 15: my life told me to apply to Starbucks. And it

2677
02:25:06,480 --> 02:25:09,240
Speaker 15: was also like one of those things where like, again,

2678
02:25:09,320 --> 02:25:11,720
Speaker 15: I live in Oklahoma, It's not like there's a ton

2679
02:25:11,760 --> 02:25:16,160
Speaker 15: of employers who are like super excited to hire trans women. Right.

2680
02:25:17,000 --> 02:25:18,640
Speaker 3: That's something I also want to highlight because I don't

2681
02:25:18,640 --> 02:25:21,720
Speaker 3: think people understand this at all. If there's cysts is

2682
02:25:21,760 --> 02:25:25,640
Speaker 3: that the level of employment discrimination is staggering. It is, however,

2683
02:25:25,760 --> 02:25:27,320
Speaker 3: hard if you are a sis person you think it

2684
02:25:27,440 --> 02:25:29,160
Speaker 3: is to find a job, it is like thirty times

2685
02:25:29,200 --> 02:25:33,280
Speaker 3: harder if you are trans. It's unbelievably difficult. And the

2686
02:25:33,320 --> 02:25:35,720
Speaker 3: promise of just like any job that will hire a

2687
02:25:35,800 --> 02:25:40,600
Speaker 3: trans person is a huge deal because you know otherwise

2688
02:25:40,959 --> 02:25:42,959
Speaker 3: odds are you walk in the door and they take

2689
02:25:43,040 --> 02:25:45,840
Speaker 3: one look at you and like, you know, you're fucked.

2690
02:25:46,080 --> 02:25:48,840
Speaker 15: Right, And I think that's how Starbucks kind of like

2691
02:25:49,000 --> 02:25:53,200
Speaker 15: advertises itself too queer and trans workers, right. And I

2692
02:25:53,280 --> 02:25:55,640
Speaker 15: think this is reflected in the demographic of my store.

2693
02:25:56,240 --> 02:25:59,800
Speaker 15: Ninety nine percent of my coworkers are clear a lot

2694
02:25:59,840 --> 02:26:02,199
Speaker 15: of us or trans. There's like a lot of trans

2695
02:26:02,240 --> 02:26:04,760
Speaker 15: women who work at my store. I actually don't even

2696
02:26:04,760 --> 02:26:07,320
Speaker 15: know if we have a single straight coworker. Actually, we

2697
02:26:07,440 --> 02:26:11,440
Speaker 15: have liked one token like diversity higher, but he literally

2698
02:26:11,600 --> 02:26:14,560
Speaker 15: just transfers. I think it's all gay people, but no,

2699
02:26:14,760 --> 02:26:18,160
Speaker 15: like all of us applied to Starbucks because like, what

2700
02:26:18,360 --> 02:26:21,920
Speaker 15: other options do we have? Right, And again, in my case,

2701
02:26:22,080 --> 02:26:24,920
Speaker 15: I applied to Starbucks because I needed access to gender

2702
02:26:25,040 --> 02:26:27,840
Speaker 15: froming care. And over like the five years that I've

2703
02:26:27,879 --> 02:26:32,960
Speaker 15: worked here, I've realized that while that benefit might look

2704
02:26:33,280 --> 02:26:38,680
Speaker 15: good on paper, in practice, it's hard to actually qualify

2705
02:26:38,840 --> 02:26:43,440
Speaker 15: for that healthcare. It can be completely unaffordable for a

2706
02:26:43,520 --> 02:26:46,879
Speaker 15: lot of us. Right Like, last year, I made sixteen

2707
02:26:46,920 --> 02:26:52,279
Speaker 15: thousand dollars in total from Starbucks, and like a disproportionate

2708
02:26:52,480 --> 02:26:57,640
Speaker 15: amount of that income was just going towards healthcare, which

2709
02:26:57,720 --> 02:27:00,240
Speaker 15: doesn't even take into account like rent or bill or

2710
02:27:00,240 --> 02:27:04,800
Speaker 15: anything else. Like we're struggling to just fucking get by.

2711
02:27:05,600 --> 02:27:08,640
Speaker 13: Something that Mia pointed out is that one of the

2712
02:27:08,720 --> 02:27:14,039
Speaker 13: few places trans people are actually overrepresented is in union organizing.

2713
02:27:14,440 --> 02:27:18,400
Speaker 13: Because trans people don't really have a safety net. Fewer

2714
02:27:18,520 --> 02:27:21,000
Speaker 13: of us can turn to or rely on family support.

2715
02:27:21,520 --> 02:27:24,039
Speaker 13: So union organizing is one of the ways we can

2716
02:27:24,120 --> 02:27:25,840
Speaker 13: directly fight for a better life.

2717
02:27:26,400 --> 02:27:29,560
Speaker 15: But the current political climate as it is, it's even scarier.

2718
02:27:29,959 --> 02:27:32,760
Speaker 15: I mean, Cassie was talking about not being able to

2719
02:27:32,840 --> 02:27:37,000
Speaker 15: actually access the Starbucks healthcare and having defined other ways

2720
02:27:37,120 --> 02:27:40,640
Speaker 15: to pay for gender firm and care. But I mean,

2721
02:27:40,760 --> 02:27:44,520
Speaker 15: we're looking at like a Trump administration that could possibly

2722
02:27:44,720 --> 02:27:48,320
Speaker 15: be trying to make it impossible for anyone to use

2723
02:27:48,360 --> 02:27:51,880
Speaker 15: Medicare and Medicaid to cover gender firming care. We're looking

2724
02:27:51,920 --> 02:27:55,600
Speaker 15: at state by state like healthcare vans, right. I think

2725
02:27:55,600 --> 02:28:00,720
Speaker 15: it's more important than ever to organize and focus on

2726
02:28:01,240 --> 02:28:05,840
Speaker 15: transwrites and our access to healthcare, our wages, our safety

2727
02:28:05,840 --> 02:28:09,360
Speaker 15: at the workplace. Where else are we gonna protect ourselves

2728
02:28:09,400 --> 02:28:09,600
Speaker 15: like that?

2729
02:28:10,320 --> 02:28:13,480
Speaker 13: The Starbucks union is also fighting for guaranteed scheduling and

2730
02:28:13,560 --> 02:28:17,000
Speaker 13: better staffing in stores, and this relates directly to a

2731
02:28:17,040 --> 02:28:20,760
Speaker 13: worker's ability to access health care and gender affirming healthcare.

2732
02:28:21,520 --> 02:28:25,480
Speaker 13: Part of Starbucks healthcare being somewhat inaccessible is that employees

2733
02:28:25,560 --> 02:28:28,040
Speaker 13: have to work a certain threshold of hours to qualify

2734
02:28:28,080 --> 02:28:32,080
Speaker 13: for benefits, including healthcare. Failure to get enough hours of

2735
02:28:32,120 --> 02:28:35,760
Speaker 13: work scheduled means losing access to your own health care,

2736
02:28:36,000 --> 02:28:38,920
Speaker 13: and this kind of reflects a more subtle form of

2737
02:28:39,080 --> 02:28:40,279
Speaker 13: employment discrimination.

2738
02:28:41,000 --> 02:28:43,120
Speaker 15: I can speak to this. I've heard this from many

2739
02:28:43,160 --> 02:28:47,800
Speaker 15: other workers. It is such a struggle just to get

2740
02:28:48,040 --> 02:28:51,240
Speaker 15: the minimum amount of hours to keep your benefits. I

2741
02:28:51,440 --> 02:28:54,800
Speaker 15: was talking to another worker who was telling me about

2742
02:28:55,360 --> 02:28:59,000
Speaker 15: how she had to like literally cry and beg her

2743
02:28:59,160 --> 02:29:02,400
Speaker 15: manager to schedule her enough so she didn't lose access

2744
02:29:02,440 --> 02:29:05,600
Speaker 15: to gender firm and care. And of course this manager

2745
02:29:05,760 --> 02:29:10,879
Speaker 15: was scheduling enough hours for other workers who weren't trans women, right,

2746
02:29:11,400 --> 02:29:14,280
Speaker 15: And so I've been having like protections in a contract

2747
02:29:14,520 --> 02:29:18,680
Speaker 15: that guarantee a certain number of hours that are scheduling.

2748
02:29:18,879 --> 02:29:21,640
Speaker 15: That kind of thing also makes it easier for us

2749
02:29:21,720 --> 02:29:24,920
Speaker 15: to maintain and keep the benefits that we need.

2750
02:29:25,800 --> 02:29:30,560
Speaker 13: And obviously this benefits all workers because everyone benefits from

2751
02:29:30,600 --> 02:29:33,280
Speaker 13: having enough hours to actually get the money you need

2752
02:29:33,400 --> 02:29:37,320
Speaker 13: to live. The Starbucks union started the official bargaining process

2753
02:29:37,440 --> 02:29:40,640
Speaker 13: with the company last April, and they were supposed to

2754
02:29:40,720 --> 02:29:44,080
Speaker 13: have their final bargaining session last December, based on a

2755
02:29:44,160 --> 02:29:47,080
Speaker 13: shared expectation that the contract would be closed and ratified

2756
02:29:47,360 --> 02:29:48,920
Speaker 13: by the end of twenty twenty four.

2757
02:29:49,760 --> 02:29:55,080
Speaker 15: So after nine months of bargaining, it's December or expecting

2758
02:29:55,240 --> 02:29:58,280
Speaker 15: to finish up contract bargaining. And after like a few

2759
02:29:58,360 --> 02:30:01,040
Speaker 15: months of like delaying and not really giving us a

2760
02:30:01,160 --> 02:30:05,800
Speaker 15: counter on wages or benefits, Starbucks like finally gave us

2761
02:30:05,879 --> 02:30:09,600
Speaker 15: a counter proposal, I mean like counter proposal.

2762
02:30:09,840 --> 02:30:11,760
Speaker 3: It was literally like a page.

2763
02:30:13,280 --> 02:30:19,880
Speaker 15: And their counter proposal was basically no changes to benefits whatsoever,

2764
02:30:20,480 --> 02:30:25,160
Speaker 15: and a one point five percent raise if non union

2765
02:30:25,240 --> 02:30:28,920
Speaker 15: stores received a raise that was less than that, And

2766
02:30:29,040 --> 02:30:31,680
Speaker 15: for context, one point five percent for most of us

2767
02:30:31,920 --> 02:30:34,720
Speaker 15: is thirty cents. So yeah, after nine months, that was

2768
02:30:34,760 --> 02:30:38,480
Speaker 15: the best they could do. So it wasn't really a

2769
02:30:39,160 --> 02:30:43,080
Speaker 15: serious like counter proposal. I mean, frankly, it was a

2770
02:30:43,200 --> 02:30:44,000
Speaker 15: fucking insult.

2771
02:30:45,080 --> 02:30:48,560
Speaker 13: So with less than a week's notice, they organized the

2772
02:30:48,680 --> 02:30:53,480
Speaker 13: biggest ULP strike in the union's history, resulting in five

2773
02:30:53,640 --> 02:30:57,240
Speaker 13: thousand baristas at over three hundred stores across the country

2774
02:30:57,680 --> 02:31:01,240
Speaker 13: going on strike on Christmas Eve. Now, this is not

2775
02:31:01,400 --> 02:31:04,520
Speaker 13: the kind of open ended, ongoing strike that you're probably

2776
02:31:04,560 --> 02:31:08,119
Speaker 13: more familiar with. A ULP strike refers to a short

2777
02:31:08,240 --> 02:31:12,520
Speaker 13: term strike action directly tied to an unfair labor practice,

2778
02:31:13,080 --> 02:31:15,960
Speaker 13: which is any act by an employer that violates a

2779
02:31:16,080 --> 02:31:21,640
Speaker 13: worker's legal rights, and unlike ongoing strikes, ULP strikes can

2780
02:31:21,720 --> 02:31:25,840
Speaker 13: happen anytime, not just during contract bargaining. In fact, the

2781
02:31:25,840 --> 02:31:29,160
Speaker 13: Starbucks union has utilized ULP strikes the past few years

2782
02:31:29,560 --> 02:31:33,960
Speaker 13: to address unfair labor practices. Part of the shared agreement

2783
02:31:34,240 --> 02:31:36,920
Speaker 13: to finish the contract before the year's end was to

2784
02:31:37,080 --> 02:31:40,920
Speaker 13: also resolve outstanding unfair labor practices by the end of

2785
02:31:40,959 --> 02:31:45,359
Speaker 13: twenty twenty four, which did not happen and thus the strikes.

2786
02:31:46,160 --> 02:31:49,400
Speaker 13: And this was a super tight turnaround to organize strikes

2787
02:31:49,440 --> 02:31:53,160
Speaker 13: of this scale. By having a representative or delegate from

2788
02:31:53,240 --> 02:31:56,000
Speaker 13: each store in the union present at bargaining, which is

2789
02:31:56,200 --> 02:31:59,440
Speaker 13: hundreds of workers, that provides a direct link to every

2790
02:31:59,560 --> 02:32:02,560
Speaker 13: store in the campaign. This was how the union was

2791
02:32:02,600 --> 02:32:05,279
Speaker 13: able to pull off a mass mobilization on an extremely

2792
02:32:05,440 --> 02:32:08,600
Speaker 13: tight turnaround. So when it's time to vote to go

2793
02:32:08,720 --> 02:32:12,160
Speaker 13: on strike, there's already workers across hundreds of stores around

2794
02:32:12,200 --> 02:32:14,959
Speaker 13: the country ready to organize their co workers and get

2795
02:32:15,000 --> 02:32:18,160
Speaker 13: the word out. Contacts with union advocacy groups and a

2796
02:32:18,240 --> 02:32:22,599
Speaker 13: network of allies ranging from campus activists to LGBTQ organizations

2797
02:32:23,120 --> 02:32:26,560
Speaker 13: can also help spread the word about these strikes, raise awareness,

2798
02:32:26,800 --> 02:32:30,520
Speaker 13: and pull more numbers onto the picket line. On more

2799
02:32:30,560 --> 02:32:33,880
Speaker 13: of a big picture note, once you get these sorts

2800
02:32:33,920 --> 02:32:37,960
Speaker 13: of structures and networks from union organizing, you also gain

2801
02:32:38,040 --> 02:32:40,959
Speaker 13: the actual capacity to deploy them quickly in a way

2802
02:32:41,000 --> 02:32:44,480
Speaker 13: that actually lets you do rapid responses to changing situations.

2803
02:32:45,120 --> 02:32:48,600
Speaker 13: And that capacity is something that transadvocacy just hasn't really

2804
02:32:48,680 --> 02:32:49,800
Speaker 13: had in a long time.

2805
02:32:50,560 --> 02:32:55,520
Speaker 15: These sites are directly connected to the broader political situation

2806
02:32:55,959 --> 02:32:59,680
Speaker 15: in America right. I think that a big issue that

2807
02:33:00,320 --> 02:33:04,720
Speaker 15: trans organizing has right now is that there's not a

2808
02:33:04,920 --> 02:33:08,800
Speaker 15: lot of on the ground reaching out, connecting to mobilizing

2809
02:33:09,840 --> 02:33:13,480
Speaker 15: people who are impacted by these policies that are like

2810
02:33:13,560 --> 02:33:16,720
Speaker 15: negatively impacting trans people. And so I think the kind

2811
02:33:16,720 --> 02:33:20,360
Speaker 15: of organizing that unions are doing right, that we've been

2812
02:33:20,480 --> 02:33:25,039
Speaker 15: doing this entire time right where we're speaking to people directly,

2813
02:33:25,280 --> 02:33:29,240
Speaker 15: where we're getting them organized, getting them involved, is really

2814
02:33:29,959 --> 02:33:35,480
Speaker 15: a helpful starting point for like turning discontent and turning

2815
02:33:35,640 --> 02:33:40,280
Speaker 15: anxiety and fear around issues into like actual action. I

2816
02:33:40,360 --> 02:33:44,320
Speaker 15: think it's like super essential that we have this contract.

2817
02:33:44,600 --> 02:33:47,640
Speaker 15: Now we're heading into twenty twenty five, we're heading into

2818
02:33:47,959 --> 02:33:52,200
Speaker 15: a frankly pretty fucking scary time for trans people. We

2819
02:33:53,400 --> 02:33:57,120
Speaker 15: need a contract that protects trans healthcare. We need a

2820
02:33:57,200 --> 02:34:01,400
Speaker 15: contract that guarantees better wages. We need a contract of

2821
02:34:01,520 --> 02:34:05,000
Speaker 15: only for the protections that it guarantees workers in terms

2822
02:34:05,040 --> 02:34:07,480
Speaker 15: of like safety at work and type of terms of

2823
02:34:07,640 --> 02:34:11,120
Speaker 15: making sure that they're not being taking advantage of at work.

2824
02:34:11,280 --> 02:34:15,240
Speaker 15: Right well, Starbucks offered us again was an insult. It

2825
02:34:15,360 --> 02:34:19,600
Speaker 15: wasn't a real counter proposal. We're more ready than ever

2826
02:34:19,879 --> 02:34:22,600
Speaker 15: to like finish his contract and to have something, but like,

2827
02:34:23,320 --> 02:34:27,240
Speaker 15: we need movement from Starbucks. We need a serious counter proposal.

2828
02:34:27,800 --> 02:34:30,440
Speaker 15: Thirty cents and no changes to benefits isn't going to

2829
02:34:30,520 --> 02:34:31,080
Speaker 15: fucking do it.

2830
02:34:32,160 --> 02:34:34,240
Speaker 13: We're going to go on another ad break and return

2831
02:34:34,400 --> 02:34:49,240
Speaker 13: to finish up our interview with Starbucks Workers United. Okay,

2832
02:34:49,320 --> 02:34:52,560
Speaker 13: we're back. I'm now gonna throw to MIA or a

2833
02:34:52,640 --> 02:34:57,400
Speaker 13: discussion on how union organizing can help strengthen trends. Advocacy

2834
02:34:57,600 --> 02:34:58,439
Speaker 13: in general.

2835
02:34:58,440 --> 02:35:01,920
Speaker 3: We're in this kind of crisis period of I don't

2836
02:35:01,959 --> 02:35:04,360
Speaker 3: know what you call the national trans movements, just the

2837
02:35:04,440 --> 02:35:06,880
Speaker 3: extent that it exists, where the advocacy orgs and the

2838
02:35:06,959 --> 02:35:10,080
Speaker 3: legal strategies they've been pursuing are not working. We're losing

2839
02:35:10,120 --> 02:35:12,880
Speaker 3: in the courts all the time. Their electoral strategy of

2840
02:35:13,720 --> 02:35:16,680
Speaker 3: kind of bearrying themselves to the Biden administration has failed,

2841
02:35:17,040 --> 02:35:20,160
Speaker 3: and I think this is a moment where we need

2842
02:35:20,240 --> 02:35:22,880
Speaker 3: a new plan. And this is as good of a

2843
02:35:22,959 --> 02:35:26,000
Speaker 3: plan as I've ever seen. And I think one of

2844
02:35:26,040 --> 02:35:27,560
Speaker 3: the things that we're going to see, we're going to

2845
02:35:27,640 --> 02:35:29,840
Speaker 3: need to see and we're literally just going to have

2846
02:35:29,920 --> 02:35:33,320
Speaker 3: to do over the next few years. I mean ideally

2847
02:35:33,360 --> 02:35:35,120
Speaker 3: over the next couple of months, because we don't have

2848
02:35:35,560 --> 02:35:37,360
Speaker 3: we don't have much time until these people take power.

2849
02:35:38,200 --> 02:35:41,879
Speaker 3: Is more sort of you know, not just intra union

2850
02:35:42,520 --> 02:35:46,720
Speaker 3: coordination of organizing a transworkers, but is organizing trans workers

2851
02:35:46,879 --> 02:35:50,160
Speaker 3: across different unions and trying to figure out how we

2852
02:35:50,360 --> 02:35:54,880
Speaker 3: leverage our power, like more broadly to you know, protect

2853
02:35:54,920 --> 02:35:57,760
Speaker 3: ourselves and to fight for our rights and fight to

2854
02:35:57,800 --> 02:35:58,920
Speaker 3: be free. Yeah.

2855
02:35:59,160 --> 02:35:59,720
Speaker 2: I think.

2856
02:36:01,160 --> 02:36:04,960
Speaker 23: That's something we're still building our capacity for that in

2857
02:36:05,080 --> 02:36:08,360
Speaker 23: this union, but we definitely do have relationships with other

2858
02:36:09,000 --> 02:36:13,480
Speaker 23: trans union activists and organizers. We're affiliated to Workers United,

2859
02:36:13,480 --> 02:36:16,760
Speaker 23: which is affiliated to SCIU, So obviously that's kind of

2860
02:36:16,840 --> 02:36:19,119
Speaker 23: the most direct and easiest way for us to get

2861
02:36:19,160 --> 02:36:21,040
Speaker 23: in touch with other trans folks that are in the

2862
02:36:21,120 --> 02:36:24,800
Speaker 23: labor movement, get support, get feedback, get ideas, and share

2863
02:36:25,080 --> 02:36:27,600
Speaker 23: in turn what's been working for us. But it is

2864
02:36:27,680 --> 02:36:31,000
Speaker 23: a capacity we want to build out even further because

2865
02:36:31,040 --> 02:36:33,920
Speaker 23: we are going to need that solidarity between and among

2866
02:36:34,680 --> 02:36:39,560
Speaker 23: labor unions in order to form a coherent response. I mean,

2867
02:36:39,640 --> 02:36:43,280
Speaker 23: as you're saying, the response hasn't been working. The kind

2868
02:36:43,320 --> 02:36:46,599
Speaker 23: of problem solving we're seeing from a lot of politicians

2869
02:36:47,120 --> 02:36:51,199
Speaker 23: basically amounts to sidestepping the issue, pretending it doesn't exist.

2870
02:36:52,000 --> 02:36:54,240
Speaker 23: You know, maybe not throwing trans people under the bus

2871
02:36:54,440 --> 02:36:59,560
Speaker 23: explicitly by actively supporting our elimination from public life, but

2872
02:36:59,680 --> 02:37:03,320
Speaker 23: certainly not standing up and defending us. And unions are

2873
02:37:03,360 --> 02:37:07,240
Speaker 23: one of the only ways that working people can come

2874
02:37:07,280 --> 02:37:12,160
Speaker 23: together in large groups and pool resources for political activity.

2875
02:37:12,240 --> 02:37:14,280
Speaker 23: And we know there are a lot of problems with

2876
02:37:14,360 --> 02:37:18,160
Speaker 23: how many unions currently do that. But for those of

2877
02:37:18,280 --> 02:37:22,160
Speaker 23: us who are you know, very committed to struggle for equality,

2878
02:37:22,240 --> 02:37:24,680
Speaker 23: that's not going to compromise and throw some group under

2879
02:37:24,720 --> 02:37:29,240
Speaker 23: the bus. We understand that we have to get involved

2880
02:37:29,400 --> 02:37:34,360
Speaker 23: and be part of labor in order to improve how

2881
02:37:34,480 --> 02:37:37,440
Speaker 23: labor does politics in this country. If we want people

2882
02:37:37,520 --> 02:37:42,199
Speaker 23: to stand up and defend trans rights and defend trans healthcare,

2883
02:37:42,360 --> 02:37:45,160
Speaker 23: and defend our ability to exist in public life.

2884
02:37:46,040 --> 02:37:49,240
Speaker 3: Then we have to, like we have to be the

2885
02:37:49,280 --> 02:37:51,400
Speaker 3: ones to do it. We just we have to do it.

2886
02:37:51,600 --> 02:37:55,200
Speaker 23: And getting involved in your union is one of the

2887
02:37:55,320 --> 02:37:57,960
Speaker 23: only accessible ways that trans people are going to be

2888
02:37:58,000 --> 02:38:02,160
Speaker 23: able to build that kind of political capacity and find allies.

2889
02:38:02,760 --> 02:38:06,160
Speaker 23: We have an opportunity here because you know, to do

2890
02:38:06,280 --> 02:38:11,280
Speaker 23: a version of Jijik's mistranslation of Antonio Gramsci is like,

2891
02:38:11,320 --> 02:38:13,520
Speaker 23: you know, the old trans movement is dying in the

2892
02:38:13,560 --> 02:38:15,680
Speaker 23: New World's like struggles to be born. Now is a

2893
02:38:15,720 --> 02:38:19,800
Speaker 23: time of monsters. But I think this means that, you know, you, like, literally,

2894
02:38:19,879 --> 02:38:21,720
Speaker 23: the people listening to this show, the people on this now,

2895
02:38:22,040 --> 02:38:25,360
Speaker 23: we are going to be the people who define what

2896
02:38:25,560 --> 02:38:28,040
Speaker 23: the trans movement is going to be going forward, right,

2897
02:38:28,080 --> 02:38:30,360
Speaker 23: and we have to because we have no other choice.

2898
02:38:30,760 --> 02:38:33,040
Speaker 23: But this also means that, yeah, we are going to

2899
02:38:33,080 --> 02:38:34,720
Speaker 23: be the ones who get to set the tone of

2900
02:38:35,640 --> 02:38:38,680
Speaker 23: what we're doing, get to like strategically decide on how

2901
02:38:38,720 --> 02:38:40,160
Speaker 23: we're going to do this. And I think we have

2902
02:38:40,240 --> 02:38:43,800
Speaker 23: advantages too in the sense that there are ways in

2903
02:38:43,840 --> 02:38:46,360
Speaker 23: which our economic marginalization is sort of helpful in that,

2904
02:38:47,120 --> 02:38:48,760
Speaker 23: you know, if you look at the sort of independent

2905
02:38:48,840 --> 02:38:51,360
Speaker 23: unions that have been forming recently, right, even more so

2906
02:38:51,520 --> 02:38:54,320
Speaker 23: than in conventional unions, unbelievable numbers of those people are trans,

2907
02:38:54,440 --> 02:38:57,320
Speaker 23: right because you know, Okay, you're dealing with the population

2908
02:38:57,600 --> 02:39:00,400
Speaker 23: where it's very easy to get salts, easy to send

2909
02:39:00,400 --> 02:39:02,840
Speaker 23: people into unionized stores because no one has jobs anyways,

2910
02:39:02,840 --> 02:39:04,920
Speaker 23: and so the you know the risk of you losing

2911
02:39:05,000 --> 02:39:07,600
Speaker 23: it is like lower because you're already taking a low

2912
02:39:07,640 --> 02:39:10,120
Speaker 23: wage job, et cetera, et cetera. And I think I

2913
02:39:10,200 --> 02:39:13,160
Speaker 23: think there's there's things about these movements and the way

2914
02:39:13,200 --> 02:39:16,560
Speaker 23: that we're embedding ourselves in also sort of new movements,

2915
02:39:16,879 --> 02:39:20,400
Speaker 23: Like the start unionization thing is not that old, right.

2916
02:39:20,920 --> 02:39:25,199
Speaker 23: I think we're well positioned on the sort of front

2917
02:39:25,400 --> 02:39:27,720
Speaker 23: of a bunch of different changes that are happening in

2918
02:39:27,840 --> 02:39:31,040
Speaker 23: both union organizing and in how the American working class

2919
02:39:31,280 --> 02:39:36,600
Speaker 23: works to build something together that can actually go back

2920
02:39:36,640 --> 02:39:40,560
Speaker 23: on the offensive for the first time in like a decade.

2921
02:39:41,000 --> 02:39:41,160
Speaker 6: Right.

2922
02:39:41,160 --> 02:39:42,840
Speaker 15: And I think we're at a moment where we actually

2923
02:39:43,040 --> 02:39:47,440
Speaker 15: have to like fight for ourselves, right. Yeah, Again, we're

2924
02:39:47,480 --> 02:39:49,160
Speaker 15: at a point where no one else is going to

2925
02:39:49,240 --> 02:39:51,400
Speaker 15: fight for us. We have to be willing to take

2926
02:39:51,480 --> 02:39:55,960
Speaker 15: that step and fight for ourselves advocate for ourselves. At

2927
02:39:56,000 --> 02:39:59,200
Speaker 15: this moment, it's up to trans people to get involved

2928
02:40:00,080 --> 02:40:03,000
Speaker 15: acially with the labor movement, and there's so much opportunity

2929
02:40:03,680 --> 02:40:06,720
Speaker 15: to advocate for trans rights, to like build up the

2930
02:40:07,000 --> 02:40:10,039
Speaker 15: transliberation movement in a way that hasn't been done before.

2931
02:40:10,840 --> 02:40:14,520
Speaker 15: I think it's so essential for us to not feel

2932
02:40:14,640 --> 02:40:19,240
Speaker 15: hopeless and see the potential here and get involved. I'm

2933
02:40:19,280 --> 02:40:22,880
Speaker 15: not necessarily telling people that, like you should go apply

2934
02:40:22,959 --> 02:40:26,400
Speaker 15: to a Starbucks and like convince them to unionize, but

2935
02:40:26,520 --> 02:40:27,279
Speaker 15: also like I'm.

2936
02:40:27,160 --> 02:40:34,119
Speaker 23: Not not saying that, you know, trans people are getting

2937
02:40:34,240 --> 02:40:39,440
Speaker 23: that opportunity to actually drive our own liberation, and there's

2938
02:40:39,640 --> 02:40:41,760
Speaker 23: just so few places in society where we get that.

2939
02:40:42,240 --> 02:40:45,160
Speaker 23: That's been one of the most exciting things about being

2940
02:40:45,280 --> 02:40:46,440
Speaker 23: part of this union for me.

2941
02:40:47,320 --> 02:40:48,640
Speaker 3: And yes, you should.

2942
02:40:48,480 --> 02:40:52,040
Speaker 23: Consider going to work at Starbucks and unionizing it. And certainly,

2943
02:40:52,480 --> 02:40:55,600
Speaker 23: you know, to directly plug a little bit. If there

2944
02:40:56,040 --> 02:40:59,880
Speaker 23: are Buristas in your audience, they absolutely should go to

2945
02:41:00,120 --> 02:41:01,640
Speaker 23: our website. I think there will be a link like

2946
02:41:01,760 --> 02:41:04,879
Speaker 23: in the description of the episode or something. Go visit

2947
02:41:05,160 --> 02:41:08,000
Speaker 23: our union's website, get in touch with an organizer, and

2948
02:41:08,520 --> 02:41:12,640
Speaker 23: start organizing. I know it can like sound daunting in theory,

2949
02:41:12,840 --> 02:41:14,960
Speaker 23: like what does it mean to start organizing my workplace?

2950
02:41:15,240 --> 02:41:16,640
Speaker 23: But there is a template, there's a plan.

2951
02:41:17,200 --> 02:41:18,520
Speaker 3: You know. We've done this a bunch.

2952
02:41:18,640 --> 02:41:21,720
Speaker 23: We've done it at over five hundred stores, at least

2953
02:41:21,760 --> 02:41:25,080
Speaker 23: five hundred and twelve at this point nationwide, which is

2954
02:41:25,240 --> 02:41:28,160
Speaker 23: pretty incredible, especially to have done all that without yet

2955
02:41:28,240 --> 02:41:31,880
Speaker 23: having even secured our contract. So we have a good

2956
02:41:31,920 --> 02:41:33,920
Speaker 23: template for how to win, and if you just get

2957
02:41:34,000 --> 02:41:37,200
Speaker 23: in touch, then people will reach out to help you.

2958
02:41:37,400 --> 02:41:40,240
Speaker 23: And that does include professional staff, but it also includes

2959
02:41:40,280 --> 02:41:44,560
Speaker 23: people like us who are workers that will be peer

2960
02:41:44,600 --> 02:41:49,320
Speaker 23: to peer, worker to worker organizers, because that's what this

2961
02:41:49,440 --> 02:41:51,879
Speaker 23: campaign has been built on from the beginning, is workers

2962
02:41:52,000 --> 02:41:55,560
Speaker 23: organizing each other. So yeah, I mean, there's really truly

2963
02:41:55,640 --> 02:41:58,720
Speaker 23: never been a time that's better than now and also

2964
02:41:58,840 --> 02:41:59,879
Speaker 23: never been more essential.

2965
02:42:00,160 --> 02:42:03,280
Speaker 3: It's never been more needed than now. So this is

2966
02:42:03,360 --> 02:42:03,720
Speaker 3: the time.

2967
02:42:04,400 --> 02:42:07,480
Speaker 23: And if you're not a barista, or you can't become

2968
02:42:07,520 --> 02:42:11,959
Speaker 23: a barista, then we still really need people to sign

2969
02:42:12,120 --> 02:42:14,640
Speaker 23: a solidarity pledge with our union and get involved that

2970
02:42:14,680 --> 02:42:17,760
Speaker 23: way as allies, as supporters. You know, community support is

2971
02:42:18,480 --> 02:42:22,760
Speaker 23: always critical to union struggles. We are bargaining our contract

2972
02:42:22,959 --> 02:42:26,360
Speaker 23: with Starbucks right now, and community support is a huge

2973
02:42:26,480 --> 02:42:29,160
Speaker 23: part of what's going to get us, you know, the

2974
02:42:29,200 --> 02:42:32,480
Speaker 23: contract that does deliver the kind of protections and benefits

2975
02:42:32,520 --> 02:42:35,760
Speaker 23: we're looking for, that does set a precedent for what

2976
02:42:36,080 --> 02:42:39,400
Speaker 23: trans inclusive union organizing and union bargaining can look like

2977
02:42:39,560 --> 02:42:43,560
Speaker 23: in this country. It's kind of a terrifying responsibility sometimes.

2978
02:42:43,800 --> 02:42:47,240
Speaker 23: But the thing about this union is because it is

2979
02:42:47,440 --> 02:42:50,920
Speaker 23: one of the exciting bright spots in American labor right now.

2980
02:42:51,520 --> 02:42:54,440
Speaker 23: I do think a lot of people are looking to

2981
02:42:54,600 --> 02:42:57,000
Speaker 23: us to figure out, well, what are they doing, what's working,

2982
02:42:57,120 --> 02:43:00,600
Speaker 23: what's going well? And I certainly think, you know, the

2983
02:43:00,720 --> 02:43:03,480
Speaker 23: results we get for trans workers in our union have

2984
02:43:03,720 --> 02:43:09,320
Speaker 23: some precedent setting importance. So it is really critical, even

2985
02:43:09,320 --> 02:43:11,080
Speaker 23: if you're not in this union, even if you don't

2986
02:43:11,120 --> 02:43:15,880
Speaker 23: work at Starbucks, to support this struggle because it will

2987
02:43:16,000 --> 02:43:20,960
Speaker 23: have ripple effects. There will be ramifications for American labor

2988
02:43:21,520 --> 02:43:25,600
Speaker 23: and for the struggle for transliberation as a consequence of

2989
02:43:26,360 --> 02:43:27,440
Speaker 23: how things turn out with us.

2990
02:43:27,560 --> 02:43:29,560
Speaker 3: So yeah, we could really use your support.

2991
02:43:30,360 --> 02:43:33,480
Speaker 13: Earlier this episode, we talked about hope, and as important

2992
02:43:33,520 --> 02:43:36,640
Speaker 13: and as useful as that can be, it is also

2993
02:43:36,959 --> 02:43:41,120
Speaker 13: super crucial that people know how they're actually able to

2994
02:43:41,320 --> 02:43:45,120
Speaker 13: organize and actually try to get things done. After this

2995
02:43:45,280 --> 02:43:48,400
Speaker 13: last election, I'm sure many of you, like myself, were

2996
02:43:48,480 --> 02:43:52,520
Speaker 13: flooded with posts and performative calls to action. Now is

2997
02:43:52,640 --> 02:43:57,160
Speaker 13: the time to organize your community, but never with any

2998
02:43:57,280 --> 02:43:59,880
Speaker 13: real information on what that actually means or how to

2999
02:44:00,080 --> 02:44:03,600
Speaker 13: go about it. But something like the Starbucks union is

3000
02:44:03,640 --> 02:44:06,600
Speaker 13: actually a very direct way to do that, especially if

3001
02:44:06,600 --> 02:44:07,359
Speaker 13: you're a barista.

3002
02:44:07,800 --> 02:44:11,640
Speaker 15: I think I have to emphasize how achievable that is,

3003
02:44:11,879 --> 02:44:15,520
Speaker 15: Like it is possible five hundred plus stores across the

3004
02:44:15,640 --> 02:44:19,920
Speaker 15: nation have done it in this political environment. Right, I'm

3005
02:44:19,959 --> 02:44:23,160
Speaker 15: going to shout out one of my coworkers. She transferred

3006
02:44:23,200 --> 02:44:27,320
Speaker 15: to another store in Oklahoma, and I was chokingly telling her.

3007
02:44:27,360 --> 02:44:29,400
Speaker 15: I was like, well, you're allowed to transfer as long as,

3008
02:44:29,440 --> 02:44:33,160
Speaker 15: like you, you unionize your store immediately, and she was

3009
02:44:33,200 --> 02:44:36,720
Speaker 15: like okay, And she did it, like within like a

3010
02:44:36,879 --> 02:44:39,879
Speaker 15: week of being there. She'd like talked one on one

3011
02:44:40,000 --> 02:44:43,480
Speaker 15: with everyone at that store, people who were all already

3012
02:44:44,000 --> 02:44:51,080
Speaker 15: wanting better wages, better healthcare, better staffing, And through these conversations,

3013
02:44:51,800 --> 02:44:55,480
Speaker 15: she organized that store. And that is so fucking amazing

3014
02:44:55,560 --> 02:44:57,840
Speaker 15: to me, and it makes me feel so I don't know,

3015
02:44:57,879 --> 02:45:00,560
Speaker 15: I don't want to sound like patronizing or whatever, but

3016
02:45:00,640 --> 02:45:03,920
Speaker 15: it makes me so proud to see that, right, to

3017
02:45:04,000 --> 02:45:06,920
Speaker 15: see that she's been able to see how our store

3018
02:45:06,959 --> 02:45:10,680
Speaker 15: has organized, how we've spoken to people, how we've reached

3019
02:45:10,720 --> 02:45:13,360
Speaker 15: out to like her co workers, and she's been able

3020
02:45:13,400 --> 02:45:17,400
Speaker 15: to take that and replicate that so easily, get so quickly,

3021
02:45:18,040 --> 02:45:19,880
Speaker 15: Like when I say, with them, like a week or

3022
02:45:19,879 --> 02:45:22,840
Speaker 15: two of transferring to the store. I am not exaggerating.

3023
02:45:23,640 --> 02:45:26,560
Speaker 15: She was fucking on top of it. If we can

3024
02:45:26,640 --> 02:45:31,240
Speaker 15: do this in fucking goddamn Oklahoma, we can do this anywhere. Right,

3025
02:45:32,000 --> 02:45:34,160
Speaker 15: It is possible. You can do it if you can

3026
02:45:34,240 --> 02:45:36,840
Speaker 15: have a conversation with your coworker, if you can have

3027
02:45:36,879 --> 02:45:40,039
Speaker 15: a conversation with multiple co workers, if you can develop

3028
02:45:40,120 --> 02:45:44,680
Speaker 15: relationships with them friendships, if you can establish that you

3029
02:45:44,840 --> 02:45:48,440
Speaker 15: have like a common issue, right, if you can make

3030
02:45:48,480 --> 02:45:51,879
Speaker 15: it clear that like the struggles we're facing at our

3031
02:45:51,959 --> 02:45:56,480
Speaker 15: workplaces have a solution. You can do this. All you

3032
02:45:56,640 --> 02:46:00,160
Speaker 15: have to do is actually fucking take that step to

3033
02:46:00,280 --> 02:46:00,920
Speaker 15: make it happen.

3034
02:46:01,800 --> 02:46:04,240
Speaker 3: Every single union that has ever been formed was maybe

3035
02:46:04,240 --> 02:46:07,480
Speaker 3: by people exactly like you. You the listener listening to

3036
02:46:07,600 --> 02:46:11,840
Speaker 3: this right now, Right, you are exactly the person who

3037
02:46:11,920 --> 02:46:14,920
Speaker 3: has organized every union that anyone has ever done. Right,

3038
02:46:15,000 --> 02:46:17,760
Speaker 3: It's it's not something that's like the domain of pure

3039
02:46:17,840 --> 02:46:21,560
Speaker 3: professional organizers. You can do this too, Yeah, you really can.

3040
02:46:21,720 --> 02:46:24,880
Speaker 23: And I mean, you know, at my store, I was

3041
02:46:24,920 --> 02:46:28,200
Speaker 23: the only transperson at my store, and despite being a

3042
02:46:28,720 --> 02:46:33,960
Speaker 23: transsexual communist, I was able to organize a successful election

3043
02:46:34,080 --> 02:46:37,080
Speaker 23: at a store that includes you know, half of people

3044
02:46:37,160 --> 02:46:40,200
Speaker 23: being Trump voters like the idea that you have to

3045
02:46:40,320 --> 02:46:44,080
Speaker 23: hide or diminish yourself, or that because you know your

3046
02:46:44,160 --> 02:46:47,000
Speaker 23: trans or otherwise marginalized, that it's impossible for you to

3047
02:46:47,120 --> 02:46:51,680
Speaker 23: build that solidarity with your coworkers and come together for

3048
02:46:51,840 --> 02:46:52,879
Speaker 23: your common issues.

3049
02:46:53,200 --> 02:46:54,039
Speaker 3: It's just not true.

3050
02:46:54,240 --> 02:46:59,240
Speaker 23: People understand their own economic liberation, even if they don't

3051
02:46:59,400 --> 02:47:03,360
Speaker 23: fully just yet. There's always an intuitive level you understand

3052
02:47:03,360 --> 02:47:06,320
Speaker 23: you're getting screwed over. You can tell that the system

3053
02:47:06,400 --> 02:47:08,000
Speaker 23: is not set up fairly and it's not set up

3054
02:47:08,040 --> 02:47:11,760
Speaker 23: for you to succeed as a working person. And with

3055
02:47:11,879 --> 02:47:14,879
Speaker 23: the right conversations, with the right information, with the right

3056
02:47:15,000 --> 02:47:18,880
Speaker 23: relationships and solidarity that you build with someone else, people

3057
02:47:18,959 --> 02:47:23,560
Speaker 23: can be brought to understand what the solution is and

3058
02:47:23,680 --> 02:47:28,920
Speaker 23: that the situation you currently live under with shareholders and

3059
02:47:28,959 --> 02:47:33,240
Speaker 23: capitalists stealing all of this value from you is unacceptable,

3060
02:47:33,360 --> 02:47:35,280
Speaker 23: and that there is a way to fight to get

3061
02:47:35,360 --> 02:47:39,880
Speaker 23: back what you've earned with your labor. So for those

3062
02:47:39,920 --> 02:47:41,800
Speaker 23: of you who are listening, you don't have to hide

3063
02:47:41,840 --> 02:47:44,920
Speaker 23: who you are politically or personally to do that work

3064
02:47:45,000 --> 02:47:47,600
Speaker 23: to bring people along. And in fact, if we do

3065
02:47:47,879 --> 02:47:51,440
Speaker 23: hide who we are, then we're not really going to

3066
02:47:51,520 --> 02:47:53,800
Speaker 23: be getting people all the way to where they need

3067
02:47:53,879 --> 02:47:56,280
Speaker 23: to go. You know, we're not going to build a

3068
02:47:56,360 --> 02:47:59,359
Speaker 23: movement of people committed to liberation by side stepping issues

3069
02:47:59,520 --> 02:48:04,200
Speaker 23: and hiding pieces of who we are and saying that, oh, well,

3070
02:48:04,240 --> 02:48:07,080
Speaker 23: you know, transliberation is not really important. That's not how

3071
02:48:07,080 --> 02:48:10,160
Speaker 23: we're going to build like a durable coalition. I think

3072
02:48:10,240 --> 02:48:13,480
Speaker 23: this is a problem that politicians in our country keep making.

3073
02:48:13,560 --> 02:48:17,039
Speaker 23: It's a mistake they keep making of thinking they can

3074
02:48:17,160 --> 02:48:22,000
Speaker 23: ignore or downplay certain issues tensions within their coalitions to

3075
02:48:22,120 --> 02:48:25,760
Speaker 23: keep those coalitions together. But when you ignore it, you

3076
02:48:25,800 --> 02:48:29,400
Speaker 23: don't address it, it just blows up later in the end. Anyway, Yeah,

3077
02:48:29,480 --> 02:48:32,280
Speaker 23: get involved that you really have nothing to lose and

3078
02:48:32,360 --> 02:48:37,800
Speaker 23: nothing you know, accept your change not to be I

3079
02:48:37,879 --> 02:48:39,760
Speaker 23: mean I just realized halfway through. I was like, well,

3080
02:48:39,760 --> 02:48:40,959
Speaker 23: I might as well finish the quote.

3081
02:48:41,000 --> 02:48:47,880
Speaker 15: So, Okay, we're like such a scary point for trans people,

3082
02:48:48,600 --> 02:48:51,640
Speaker 15: and I know that that's terrifying that that's also an

3083
02:48:51,680 --> 02:48:56,760
Speaker 15: opportunity to pivot and to like actually make meaningful change.

3084
02:48:56,959 --> 02:49:02,320
Speaker 15: Right again, I cannot emphasize enough we create our own

3085
02:49:02,400 --> 02:49:05,400
Speaker 15: hope for a better future. It has to be on us, right,

3086
02:49:06,400 --> 02:49:09,039
Speaker 15: We can't just I don't know, depend on other people

3087
02:49:09,120 --> 02:49:11,840
Speaker 15: to do this work for us. We have to show

3088
02:49:11,920 --> 02:49:16,240
Speaker 15: up and do this work. And I don't know. Personally speaking,

3089
02:49:16,600 --> 02:49:21,160
Speaker 15: I am fucking tired of liberals who want to just

3090
02:49:21,280 --> 02:49:24,480
Speaker 15: ignore trans people and pretend we don't exist. As like,

3091
02:49:24,720 --> 02:49:27,720
Speaker 15: I don't know, our TVs are flooded with anti trans ads.

3092
02:49:28,240 --> 02:49:31,720
Speaker 15: I'm tired of depending on people who aren't advocating for

3093
02:49:31,879 --> 02:49:35,480
Speaker 15: me right. I'd rather fight for myself through my union.

3094
02:49:36,000 --> 02:49:38,440
Speaker 3: So yeah, and I think that's a good place to

3095
02:49:38,640 --> 02:49:41,160
Speaker 3: close on. Is in some sense a cold world that

3096
02:49:41,240 --> 02:49:43,440
Speaker 3: has left us with no one to fight for ourselves

3097
02:49:43,520 --> 02:49:46,280
Speaker 3: but ourselves. But if we fucking do it, we can win,

3098
02:49:46,400 --> 02:49:48,320
Speaker 3: and we can drag everyone else along with us.

3099
02:49:49,280 --> 02:49:51,160
Speaker 13: On that note, I'm going to close out the show

3100
02:49:51,240 --> 02:49:54,760
Speaker 13: here with a few plugs for Starbucks Workers United. You

3101
02:49:54,840 --> 02:50:00,520
Speaker 13: can find their website at Sbworkersunited dot org and SB

3102
02:50:00,760 --> 02:50:04,120
Speaker 13: Workers United on social media. I'll have a link to

3103
02:50:04,160 --> 02:50:08,000
Speaker 13: their website and their solidarity pledge in the description below.

3104
02:50:08,720 --> 02:50:10,439
Speaker 13: See you on the other side.

3105
02:50:30,800 --> 02:50:32,000
Speaker 24: Welcome to it could happen here.

3106
02:50:32,400 --> 02:50:34,480
Speaker 25: We decided every week you were going to do in

3107
02:50:34,720 --> 02:50:40,000
Speaker 25: episode called Executive Disorders, White House Weekly, where we report

3108
02:50:40,120 --> 02:50:46,000
Speaker 25: the news, and today we are going to start that episode.

3109
02:50:46,720 --> 02:50:50,040
Speaker 25: We have the entire full time team here. We have

3110
02:50:50,160 --> 02:50:53,840
Speaker 25: Mio Wong, Garrison Davis, Robert Evans, James Stout, and I

3111
02:50:54,000 --> 02:50:56,240
Speaker 25: am the voice in your ear Sophie Lichterman.

3112
02:50:56,600 --> 02:50:59,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you should know we'll be making a number

3113
02:50:59,080 --> 02:51:01,560
Speaker 2: of references to a show you haven't watched, called The

3114
02:51:01,680 --> 02:51:04,520
Speaker 2: news Rooms. So many we didn't just pretend we didn't.

3115
02:51:04,879 --> 02:51:08,640
Speaker 25: Yeah, anyways, let's do the episode now go.

3116
02:51:09,680 --> 02:51:09,840
Speaker 12: Yeah.

3117
02:51:09,920 --> 02:51:11,320
Speaker 13: So this episode is also going to be a little

3118
02:51:11,320 --> 02:51:13,840
Speaker 13: bit different because the idea is to cover each week

3119
02:51:14,080 --> 02:51:17,080
Speaker 13: of stuff that's happening visa via the White House. And

3120
02:51:17,280 --> 02:51:20,240
Speaker 13: it's been two weeks since since Inauguration Day, and we

3121
02:51:20,360 --> 02:51:22,760
Speaker 13: are recording usually on Wednesdays, so there'll be, you know,

3122
02:51:22,840 --> 02:51:24,800
Speaker 13: a day or two there that we will record the

3123
02:51:24,840 --> 02:51:27,000
Speaker 13: week after. But we have a whole bunch of stuff

3124
02:51:27,040 --> 02:51:30,920
Speaker 13: today because we are covering essentially two weeks. I'll start

3125
02:51:31,000 --> 02:51:36,000
Speaker 13: with some of the transgender executive orders that happened last week.

3126
02:51:36,600 --> 02:51:41,720
Speaker 13: There was an order defining two sexes assigned at conception,

3127
02:51:42,240 --> 02:51:45,840
Speaker 13: which made plenty of biologists scratch their heads. A lot

3128
02:51:45,879 --> 02:51:48,080
Speaker 13: of this is just going to impact the ability to

3129
02:51:48,400 --> 02:51:50,960
Speaker 13: change your gender marker on federal documents for the next

3130
02:51:51,040 --> 02:51:55,520
Speaker 13: four years, you know, passports, also removing the the ex

3131
02:51:55,720 --> 02:51:59,720
Speaker 13: gender marker from federal documents. There's also a new directive

3132
02:51:59,840 --> 02:52:03,200
Speaker 13: that Pride flags are not to be flown on federal buildings.

3133
02:52:03,480 --> 02:52:05,840
Speaker 13: Also a separate one. I don't think we have included

3134
02:52:05,920 --> 02:52:09,560
Speaker 13: here in the research doc but how brutalist and modernist

3135
02:52:09,640 --> 02:52:13,240
Speaker 13: architecture is now not allowed to be used on new

3136
02:52:13,360 --> 02:52:17,080
Speaker 13: federal buildings. You have to use Greek or Roman inspired

3137
02:52:17,200 --> 02:52:21,480
Speaker 13: architecture because they project power. So all of those like

3138
02:52:22,040 --> 02:52:26,480
Speaker 13: Greek avatar statue Twitter accounts have a complete cultural victory.

3139
02:52:26,600 --> 02:52:31,960
Speaker 2: Now, uh great, I am going to agitate to replace

3140
02:52:32,040 --> 02:52:34,840
Speaker 2: the Oregon State capital with just a statue of a

3141
02:52:34,920 --> 02:52:37,400
Speaker 2: Roman orgy. You know, we don't even need place for

3142
02:52:37,480 --> 02:52:39,840
Speaker 2: the legislators. Just look at the statue and you'll know

3143
02:52:39,920 --> 02:52:40,240
Speaker 2: what to do.

3144
02:52:40,480 --> 02:52:43,960
Speaker 13: This actually is like bad, you know, very very nineteen thirties,

3145
02:52:44,200 --> 02:52:44,360
Speaker 13: you know.

3146
02:52:44,680 --> 02:52:47,720
Speaker 26: Yeah, yeah, famously no other regimes have hawken back to

3147
02:52:47,800 --> 02:52:48,480
Speaker 26: Claus Caalle era.

3148
02:52:48,680 --> 02:52:51,560
Speaker 13: Well, and specifically is like calling like you know, modern architecture,

3149
02:52:51,600 --> 02:52:54,920
Speaker 13: brutalist architecture, as you know, is like weak or bad

3150
02:52:55,080 --> 02:52:56,199
Speaker 13: or things that get restricted.

3151
02:52:56,560 --> 02:52:56,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3152
02:52:57,320 --> 02:53:00,200
Speaker 13: On a more somber note, part of this two sex

3153
02:53:00,320 --> 02:53:03,120
Speaker 13: that conception thing also means that a whole bunch of

3154
02:53:03,200 --> 02:53:05,720
Speaker 13: trans women are now being sent to men's prisons. And

3155
02:53:05,879 --> 02:53:07,160
Speaker 13: like a lot of this stuff is stuff that we

3156
02:53:07,240 --> 02:53:10,480
Speaker 13: knew was going to happen, and it did happen quite immediately.

3157
02:53:10,720 --> 02:53:14,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is this is just the start.

3158
02:53:14,200 --> 02:53:17,119
Speaker 13: I guess we'll throw over to MIA for some more

3159
02:53:17,160 --> 02:53:21,760
Speaker 13: executive action done on the wellcual gender ideology angle.

3160
02:53:22,400 --> 02:53:24,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, but by the time we're finished recording this, there

3161
02:53:24,440 --> 02:53:26,720
Speaker 3: might be another anti trans executive order. We'll get to

3162
02:53:26,760 --> 02:53:29,800
Speaker 3: that end. But the big ones for right now is

3163
02:53:29,920 --> 02:53:32,280
Speaker 3: that Trump is trying to do a and this is

3164
02:53:32,320 --> 02:53:33,840
Speaker 3: not something we talked about in our in our last

3165
02:53:33,879 --> 02:53:36,520
Speaker 3: episode about what's gonna look like with trans people, but

3166
02:53:36,640 --> 02:53:41,360
Speaker 3: a federal funding ban for trans healthcare, which means for

3167
02:53:41,560 --> 02:53:45,320
Speaker 3: for youth trans healthcare, which means any provider that like

3168
02:53:45,680 --> 02:53:47,480
Speaker 3: gets federal funding. And this is and this includes things

3169
02:53:47,560 --> 02:53:51,959
Speaker 3: like taking Medicare and Medicaid right those like hospitals can't

3170
02:53:52,040 --> 02:53:54,360
Speaker 3: do any kind of gender for a main care for youth.

3171
02:53:55,000 --> 02:53:56,840
Speaker 3: Part of what's sort of terrifying. I mean, there's a

3172
02:53:56,920 --> 02:53:59,240
Speaker 3: lot of terrible stuff about this, but they've they've defined

3173
02:53:59,560 --> 02:54:01,720
Speaker 3: are as age nineteen.

3174
02:54:01,680 --> 02:54:03,200
Speaker 13: Or under the age of nineteen.

3175
02:54:03,520 --> 02:54:05,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, under the age of nineteen. Yeah.

3176
02:54:05,440 --> 02:54:08,280
Speaker 13: Obviously, like that gives you know, worries for stuff that

3177
02:54:08,320 --> 02:54:09,840
Speaker 13: we've been talking about for years for how they might

3178
02:54:09,879 --> 02:54:12,600
Speaker 13: try to start bumping up the age for these for

3179
02:54:12,680 --> 02:54:13,640
Speaker 13: these HRT bands.

3180
02:54:14,040 --> 02:54:14,200
Speaker 4: Yep.

3181
02:54:14,320 --> 02:54:17,240
Speaker 13: This also could be them not really realizing what they're

3182
02:54:17,360 --> 02:54:20,120
Speaker 13: doing to some extent, because this could also just be

3183
02:54:20,200 --> 02:54:24,080
Speaker 13: copying I believe in Alabama or an Arkansas ban and

3184
02:54:24,200 --> 02:54:26,680
Speaker 13: that was like the highest age used in any of

3185
02:54:26,760 --> 02:54:29,600
Speaker 13: these like state healthcare bands. They could just be copying

3186
02:54:29,640 --> 02:54:32,280
Speaker 13: that over because it is the highest one. And like,

3187
02:54:32,320 --> 02:54:34,280
Speaker 13: I'm not sure how much they've thought about, you know,

3188
02:54:34,800 --> 02:54:38,080
Speaker 13: their capacity to start, like, you know, arbitrarily raising that number.

3189
02:54:38,400 --> 02:54:40,040
Speaker 2: I mean, part of what I think is happening. And

3190
02:54:40,120 --> 02:54:42,000
Speaker 2: I think this because this was definitely at play in

3191
02:54:42,040 --> 02:54:44,959
Speaker 2: the Alabama ban is this is, in addition to being

3192
02:54:45,000 --> 02:54:48,320
Speaker 2: an attack on trans people, part of a broader set

3193
02:54:48,400 --> 02:54:51,800
Speaker 2: of messaging towards the Parents' Rants movement, which very much

3194
02:54:51,879 --> 02:54:54,360
Speaker 2: does not consider eighteen year olds to be adults.

3195
02:54:54,600 --> 02:54:55,440
Speaker 13: Totally, totally.

3196
02:54:56,040 --> 02:54:58,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, And on that note, one of the things they're

3197
02:54:58,520 --> 02:55:01,280
Speaker 3: trying to do is target states that have like trans

3198
02:55:01,360 --> 02:55:05,440
Speaker 3: sanctuary laws by trying to like get parents who take

3199
02:55:05,440 --> 02:55:08,640
Speaker 3: their kids to save states, like charged on kidnapping charges

3200
02:55:09,520 --> 02:55:12,840
Speaker 3: and so forth, noting supposedly later today there's going to

3201
02:55:12,920 --> 02:55:16,480
Speaker 3: be one about using the Attorney General's office to work

3202
02:55:16,520 --> 02:55:20,000
Speaker 3: with attorney generals in states who prosecute teachers to use

3203
02:55:20,080 --> 02:55:23,400
Speaker 3: gender firming pronouns as like sexual abusers. And I want

3204
02:55:23,400 --> 02:55:25,840
Speaker 3: to point out like these executive orders specifically, like the

3205
02:55:25,879 --> 02:55:27,720
Speaker 3: second raft of them that I've been talking about, Like

3206
02:55:27,879 --> 02:55:31,200
Speaker 3: these are all unbelievably legal, right, yeah, Like these are

3207
02:55:31,240 --> 02:55:33,800
Speaker 3: probably not going to get implemented immediately because there's immediately

3208
02:55:33,879 --> 02:55:35,960
Speaker 3: going to go to the courts, Like the Supreme Court

3209
02:55:36,000 --> 02:55:37,800
Speaker 3: will probably give them some of it. But like you

3210
02:55:37,879 --> 02:55:40,680
Speaker 3: can't just like declare something a crime and have the

3211
02:55:40,720 --> 02:55:43,600
Speaker 3: Attorney general prosecute people for it. Like that specific thing

3212
02:55:44,000 --> 02:55:47,080
Speaker 3: is genuinely so ridiculous that it might not survive the

3213
02:55:47,120 --> 02:55:51,560
Speaker 3: Supreme Court. It's nonsense, but things that aren't nonsense, And

3214
02:55:51,640 --> 02:55:53,879
Speaker 3: this is something you genuinely can do that's very dangerous.

3215
02:55:54,000 --> 02:55:55,640
Speaker 3: Is he's trying to get And this is from per

3216
02:55:55,720 --> 02:55:59,080
Speaker 3: Aaron Reid, He's a trans journalist, does pretty good work

3217
02:55:59,120 --> 02:56:01,280
Speaker 3: on this stuff. The federal government has been instructed to

3218
02:56:01,400 --> 02:56:04,360
Speaker 3: not follow w PATH guidelines or WPATH is this sort

3219
02:56:04,400 --> 02:56:07,959
Speaker 3: of organization that sets the guidelines for like Trend's healthcare

3220
02:56:08,560 --> 02:56:11,440
Speaker 3: and this we don't know what this is going to do.

3221
02:56:11,640 --> 02:56:14,400
Speaker 3: There is a chance that this could endanger private like

3222
02:56:14,520 --> 02:56:18,160
Speaker 3: healthcare covering it because they follow the government using WPATH.

3223
02:56:18,840 --> 02:56:22,040
Speaker 3: So that's extremely extremely bad. But again, and this is

3224
02:56:22,040 --> 02:56:23,959
Speaker 3: going to be a running theme in the next section

3225
02:56:24,080 --> 02:56:26,040
Speaker 3: of this. A lot of this is stuff that he

3226
02:56:26,080 --> 02:56:28,200
Speaker 3: should need Congress for and he's just trying to do

3227
02:56:28,320 --> 02:56:31,200
Speaker 3: it because he thinks that he can and he doesn't

3228
02:56:31,200 --> 02:56:31,680
Speaker 3: give a shit.

3229
02:56:31,879 --> 02:56:33,880
Speaker 2: Well, and it's just signaling to the base even if

3230
02:56:33,920 --> 02:56:36,200
Speaker 2: it gets stopped, like he's I think, I don't think

3231
02:56:36,240 --> 02:56:39,840
Speaker 2: he cares if decent chunks of it gets stopped.

3232
02:56:39,879 --> 02:56:42,000
Speaker 3: He tried to do the thing. Yeah, I agree with Robert.

3233
02:56:42,320 --> 02:56:44,440
Speaker 3: He can now shift the blame to someone else.

3234
02:56:44,560 --> 02:56:47,600
Speaker 2: Look, man, I did the executive order, which honestly is

3235
02:56:47,680 --> 02:56:50,120
Speaker 2: what Biden should have done on some stuff. Right, fuck it,

3236
02:56:50,560 --> 02:56:51,760
Speaker 2: make the statement, you know.

3237
02:56:52,200 --> 02:56:52,400
Speaker 4: Yeah?

3238
02:56:52,480 --> 02:56:55,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, So speaking of fuck it, let's get into this

3239
02:56:55,440 --> 02:56:59,960
Speaker 3: whole this whole freezing the entire federal government thing. We're

3240
02:57:00,000 --> 02:57:02,600
Speaker 3: we're gonna do a more detailed episode about this next week.

3241
02:57:03,160 --> 02:57:04,960
Speaker 3: But maybe the most unhanged thing that he's sound so

3242
02:57:05,000 --> 02:57:08,040
Speaker 3: far than the birthright stuff. He did an executive order

3243
02:57:08,320 --> 02:57:12,360
Speaker 3: that's telling everyone they can't fund DEI. Early this week,

3244
02:57:12,560 --> 02:57:15,720
Speaker 3: the US Office of Personnel Management sent out this memo

3245
02:57:15,879 --> 02:57:20,280
Speaker 3: to everyone telling them that, like all grant programs are

3246
02:57:20,560 --> 02:57:23,960
Speaker 3: frozen until they submit, like they submitted a description of

3247
02:57:24,040 --> 02:57:25,760
Speaker 3: like what the grant program is and why it's not

3248
02:57:25,920 --> 02:57:28,959
Speaker 3: DEI and so like think things that were like fucked

3249
02:57:29,040 --> 02:57:31,640
Speaker 3: by this, right I have a few of these programs

3250
02:57:31,720 --> 02:57:33,520
Speaker 3: and they were the grants they were shutting down. Here,

3251
02:57:34,280 --> 02:57:40,080
Speaker 3: the Nicholas and Zachary Burt Memorial carbon Monoxide Poisoning Program WOA,

3252
02:57:41,200 --> 02:57:44,800
Speaker 3: the National School Lunch Program, Special Milk Program for children,

3253
02:57:45,160 --> 02:57:49,160
Speaker 3: the Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, infants, and children, the

3254
02:57:49,280 --> 02:57:53,640
Speaker 3: do d's Basic and Applied Scientific Research Grants DEI D.

3255
02:57:54,440 --> 02:57:57,160
Speaker 3: It's even got a D right in there, that's right. Yeah,

3256
02:57:57,480 --> 02:57:59,440
Speaker 3: Like one of these and this is a very serious

3257
02:57:59,480 --> 02:58:01,720
Speaker 3: one least for these people holding onto power was the

3258
02:58:01,840 --> 02:58:05,760
Speaker 3: National Guard's Military Operation and Maintenance samously low, which like

3259
02:58:05,840 --> 02:58:08,920
Speaker 3: it's like it's like eight billion dollars of money to

3260
02:58:09,000 --> 02:58:09,600
Speaker 3: the National Guard.

3261
02:58:09,720 --> 02:58:13,959
Speaker 2: Hey, critical support. He got one thing, right, The.

3262
02:58:14,000 --> 02:58:16,160
Speaker 3: Way that you can tell that none of these people,

3263
02:58:16,200 --> 02:58:17,640
Speaker 3: and the thing is a sign of is that none

3264
02:58:17,680 --> 02:58:19,720
Speaker 3: of these people have any idea what's going on inside

3265
02:58:19,720 --> 02:58:21,080
Speaker 3: of the state. They don't understand what it is, they

3266
02:58:21,120 --> 02:58:23,200
Speaker 3: don't understand what it does. And I can prove this

3267
02:58:23,360 --> 02:58:26,200
Speaker 3: for a fact because one of the programs that they

3268
02:58:26,440 --> 02:58:30,880
Speaker 3: froze was a program that gives money to police to

3269
02:58:31,000 --> 02:58:34,400
Speaker 3: do patrols outside of a nuclear weapons assembly plan.

3270
02:58:34,600 --> 02:58:39,879
Speaker 2: Joey, they defunded the nuke police, like check the Segmal

3271
02:58:39,920 --> 02:58:41,680
Speaker 2: loop gang. I think I got a plan based on

3272
02:58:41,840 --> 02:58:47,120
Speaker 2: that we're gonna become the first nuclear armed podcasting network.

3273
02:58:47,879 --> 02:58:51,800
Speaker 3: So like, I think I think people have this conception that, like,

3274
02:58:51,920 --> 02:58:53,920
Speaker 3: you know, they're operating according to a plan. These are

3275
02:58:53,959 --> 02:58:56,240
Speaker 3: all sort of strategic like strokes and masters strokes, and

3276
02:58:56,320 --> 02:58:59,320
Speaker 3: like no, they're just they're just lashing out right. They're

3277
02:58:59,360 --> 02:59:02,200
Speaker 3: driven by peer anger, and they're trying to do this

3278
02:59:02,360 --> 02:59:05,320
Speaker 3: purge of the government if anything woke or whatever, like

3279
02:59:05,560 --> 02:59:08,760
Speaker 3: anything that's like vaguely involves non white people or just

3280
02:59:08,879 --> 02:59:11,800
Speaker 3: like anyone who's not assists white dude, they're trying to

3281
02:59:11,800 --> 02:59:17,640
Speaker 3: get rid of. Yeah, and this memo was immediately challenged

3282
02:59:17,640 --> 02:59:19,879
Speaker 3: in court because it's also this is also hideously illegal.

3283
02:59:19,959 --> 02:59:22,760
Speaker 3: The president doesn't control the purse strings. That's like, you know,

3284
02:59:22,879 --> 02:59:26,520
Speaker 3: in the Constitution, it says that Congress controls this. So

3285
02:59:27,200 --> 02:59:32,160
Speaker 3: where we're at now is that the memo has been withdrawn,

3286
02:59:33,000 --> 02:59:36,040
Speaker 3: but there's there's a bunch of really conflicting information where

3287
02:59:36,080 --> 02:59:38,440
Speaker 3: like Trump spokespeople are saying that they're still going to

3288
02:59:38,480 --> 02:59:40,160
Speaker 3: go through with the executive orders.

3289
02:59:40,480 --> 02:59:42,640
Speaker 13: They're probably going to try to rewrite it. They might

3290
02:59:42,720 --> 02:59:47,000
Speaker 13: make it more targeted against you know, woke whatever that means. Yeah,

3291
02:59:47,160 --> 02:59:49,160
Speaker 13: it may not be as like broad as this as

3292
02:59:49,240 --> 02:59:51,680
Speaker 13: this official memo, but they're certainly going to try again.

3293
02:59:51,840 --> 02:59:53,840
Speaker 3: But the problem that they have is that there's there

3294
02:59:53,879 --> 02:59:56,080
Speaker 3: are literally so many of these grants and the read

3295
02:59:56,120 --> 02:59:57,400
Speaker 3: the reason they did it this way in the first

3296
02:59:57,440 --> 02:59:59,160
Speaker 3: place was because they just they just they found a

3297
02:59:59,240 --> 03:00:01,480
Speaker 3: list of grants. I copied all of them and they

3298
03:00:01,520 --> 03:00:03,680
Speaker 3: were like, Okay, departments, you have to go figure this out,

3299
03:00:03,680 --> 03:00:05,400
Speaker 3: and we're freezing your stuff until you do that. Even

3300
03:00:05,480 --> 03:00:09,160
Speaker 3: Medicaid was frozen for a few hours yesterday. Yeah, right,

3301
03:00:09,400 --> 03:00:12,360
Speaker 3: Like the effectively nuked most of the capacity of the

3302
03:00:12,400 --> 03:00:15,400
Speaker 3: federal government. And it's gonna take a lot of effort

3303
03:00:15,480 --> 03:00:17,959
Speaker 3: for them to sort through which of these things they

3304
03:00:18,000 --> 03:00:20,120
Speaker 3: could afford to turn off so that they don't end

3305
03:00:20,200 --> 03:00:21,880
Speaker 3: up like turning off the new police.

3306
03:00:22,240 --> 03:00:22,360
Speaker 1: Right.

3307
03:00:22,640 --> 03:00:26,560
Speaker 13: Yeah, critical support to abolishing the nuclear security.

3308
03:00:27,280 --> 03:00:28,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, they did what Biden couldn't do.

3309
03:00:30,480 --> 03:00:33,240
Speaker 13: Yeah, let's go on a quick ad break, and then

3310
03:00:33,280 --> 03:00:35,800
Speaker 13: we will return to report more of the news.

3311
03:00:45,640 --> 03:00:46,720
Speaker 3: All right, we are back.

3312
03:00:47,320 --> 03:00:49,840
Speaker 13: I guess I will turn over to our Immigration and

3313
03:00:49,920 --> 03:00:51,560
Speaker 13: Border correspondent, James Stout.

3314
03:00:51,800 --> 03:00:53,760
Speaker 3: That's me, Yes, please report the news.

3315
03:00:53,840 --> 03:00:56,120
Speaker 26: I'm ready to report the news. I have never been

3316
03:00:56,200 --> 03:00:58,240
Speaker 26: more ready. Okay, this is gonna be a long run

3317
03:00:58,320 --> 03:01:02,000
Speaker 26: because that was a raw of executive orders about the

3318
03:01:02,080 --> 03:01:06,520
Speaker 26: border in the flurry flurry Yeah, a sounder the word

3319
03:01:06,560 --> 03:01:09,920
Speaker 26: we're allowed to use. Okay, a flurry Okay, A murder

3320
03:01:10,360 --> 03:01:12,119
Speaker 26: like crows, you know, the collective nown for crows.

3321
03:01:12,480 --> 03:01:14,080
Speaker 13: I mean this is going to result in a murder.

3322
03:01:14,800 --> 03:01:14,959
Speaker 1: Yeah.

3323
03:01:15,000 --> 03:01:15,160
Speaker 7: Yeah.

3324
03:01:15,240 --> 03:01:19,000
Speaker 26: Well, so let's start with a couple of the big ones, right.

3325
03:01:19,120 --> 03:01:21,720
Speaker 26: The first one was essentially revoking the right to asylum

3326
03:01:21,800 --> 03:01:25,240
Speaker 26: to anyone quote engaged in the invasion across the southern

3327
03:01:25,320 --> 03:01:28,920
Speaker 26: border end quote. I want to highlight this invasion language

3328
03:01:29,000 --> 03:01:31,880
Speaker 26: because obviously like I adventure to say, I've spent more

3329
03:01:31,959 --> 03:01:34,200
Speaker 26: time at the southern border of the United States sent

3330
03:01:34,240 --> 03:01:37,280
Speaker 26: anyone in the executive branch, and most people reporting on

3331
03:01:37,360 --> 03:01:39,920
Speaker 26: it too. The idea of an invasion is laughable. I've

3332
03:01:39,959 --> 03:01:43,680
Speaker 26: been at the border twice since Trump was inaugurated. It's

3333
03:01:43,760 --> 03:01:47,760
Speaker 26: extremely quiet. I've never seen things more quiet. The remarkable

3334
03:01:47,800 --> 03:01:50,040
Speaker 26: thing I saw was a pig of Vietnamese pop Belied Big,

3335
03:01:50,080 --> 03:01:52,800
Speaker 26: which some people have released, which now lives there. I

3336
03:01:52,840 --> 03:01:55,400
Speaker 26: think it's being rehomed because of some other stuff that

3337
03:01:55,520 --> 03:01:58,760
Speaker 26: we will talk about later. But this invasion language is

3338
03:01:58,840 --> 03:02:02,840
Speaker 26: important because it's used as a justification for some of

3339
03:02:02,920 --> 03:02:04,920
Speaker 26: the things that the executive branch is doing which would

3340
03:02:04,959 --> 03:02:08,040
Speaker 26: otherwise seem to be outside of its authority. It's getting

3341
03:02:08,200 --> 03:02:11,560
Speaker 26: the national security encounter terrorism treatment, and anyone who's followed

3342
03:02:11,680 --> 03:02:14,200
Speaker 26: US politics for the last twenty years will understand that

3343
03:02:14,280 --> 03:02:17,920
Speaker 26: that means an effective waiver for all of your constitutional rights.

3344
03:02:17,959 --> 03:02:21,160
Speaker 26: And migrants have always been people who don't have rights,

3345
03:02:21,680 --> 03:02:23,840
Speaker 26: and this is just something that we're now seeing like

3346
03:02:24,080 --> 03:02:27,600
Speaker 26: further pushed. So let's go through some of these orders.

3347
03:02:27,600 --> 03:02:31,080
Speaker 26: Aside from the effective asylum ban, he directed the United

3348
03:02:31,120 --> 03:02:34,920
Speaker 26: States Northern Command to quote unquote seal the border. This

3349
03:02:35,080 --> 03:02:38,160
Speaker 26: has resulted in a deployment of about sixteen hundred United

3350
03:02:38,200 --> 03:02:42,520
Speaker 26: States troops. Most of them are military, police or engineers.

3351
03:02:42,879 --> 03:02:45,600
Speaker 26: We've got marines, and we've got army, and in San

3352
03:02:45,640 --> 03:02:48,920
Speaker 26: Diego Sectory its first marines out of Pendleton. They're the

3353
03:02:49,000 --> 03:02:54,120
Speaker 26: ones that I've seen locally. He has directed various government

3354
03:02:54,200 --> 03:02:58,360
Speaker 26: departments and the Attorney General to begin quote identifying countries

3355
03:02:58,400 --> 03:03:01,000
Speaker 26: throughout the world for which vetting and screening information is

3356
03:03:01,080 --> 03:03:04,320
Speaker 26: so deficient as to warrant a partial full suspension on

3357
03:03:04,360 --> 03:03:08,400
Speaker 26: the omission of nationals from those countries. This is effectively

3358
03:03:08,440 --> 03:03:11,920
Speaker 26: the travel ban that we saw in the first Trap administration,

3359
03:03:12,120 --> 03:03:16,320
Speaker 26: or a version of that. Right, it's a visa revocation

3360
03:03:16,600 --> 03:03:18,760
Speaker 26: or a travel ban for people from certain countries. And

3361
03:03:19,440 --> 03:03:21,640
Speaker 26: we can guess what those countries will be. At last time,

3362
03:03:21,720 --> 03:03:24,640
Speaker 26: they were for the most part, majority Muslim countries, right,

3363
03:03:25,360 --> 03:03:25,600
Speaker 26: and we.

3364
03:03:25,720 --> 03:03:27,039
Speaker 3: Might well see that again.

3365
03:03:27,680 --> 03:03:32,680
Speaker 26: They have attempted to rescind birthright citizenship for children of

3366
03:03:32,760 --> 03:03:33,800
Speaker 26: undocumented families.

3367
03:03:33,879 --> 03:03:34,000
Speaker 4: Right.

3368
03:03:34,040 --> 03:03:36,680
Speaker 26: This is one if people go back to our like

3369
03:03:36,800 --> 03:03:40,640
Speaker 26: what can Trump do for mass deportations podcasts that Robert

3370
03:03:40,680 --> 03:03:44,200
Speaker 26: Sophie and I did sometime in November. I think you'll

3371
03:03:44,240 --> 03:03:46,200
Speaker 26: get more information there on like what is and what

3372
03:03:46,360 --> 03:03:48,280
Speaker 26: is not possible than we have time to go into today.

3373
03:03:48,280 --> 03:03:49,480
Speaker 26: But you're seeing a lot of the things that we

3374
03:03:49,560 --> 03:03:54,560
Speaker 26: talked about there coming into reality now. I guess specifically,

3375
03:03:54,800 --> 03:03:58,160
Speaker 26: the attempt to rescind birthright citizenship relies on the idea

3376
03:03:58,200 --> 03:04:01,240
Speaker 26: that they are not quote unquote under the jurisdiction thereof

3377
03:04:01,760 --> 03:04:04,160
Speaker 26: of the United States, which is how.

3378
03:04:04,080 --> 03:04:05,560
Speaker 3: The fourteenth Amendment is phrased.

3379
03:04:06,240 --> 03:04:08,879
Speaker 26: Generally, it is understood that people who are not considered

3380
03:04:08,920 --> 03:04:11,120
Speaker 26: to be under the jurisdiction of the United States and

3381
03:04:11,200 --> 03:04:13,760
Speaker 26: therefore don't get citizenship when they're born here are the

3382
03:04:13,840 --> 03:04:17,400
Speaker 26: children of diplomats, because they have some diplomatic community right,

3383
03:04:17,480 --> 03:04:20,600
Speaker 26: so they're not necessarily governed by United States laws in

3384
03:04:20,680 --> 03:04:23,360
Speaker 26: all areas, and that is why children of diplomats don't

3385
03:04:23,360 --> 03:04:26,720
Speaker 26: get citizenship people when they're born here. The Trump administration

3386
03:04:26,840 --> 03:04:29,280
Speaker 26: is arguing that applies to children of undocumented people as well.

3387
03:04:29,440 --> 03:04:32,600
Speaker 26: There are five court cases challenging that already, so they've

3388
03:04:32,600 --> 03:04:35,680
Speaker 26: got an upp battle in the courts there. He has

3389
03:04:35,720 --> 03:04:40,120
Speaker 26: attempted to restart the Migrant Protection Protocol MPP, better known

3390
03:04:40,160 --> 03:04:43,560
Speaker 26: as REMAIN in Mexico. Right, the Migrant Protection Protocol requires

3391
03:04:43,600 --> 03:04:46,440
Speaker 26: migrants to wait in Mexico whether immigration cases are processed.

3392
03:04:46,920 --> 03:04:48,800
Speaker 26: In practice, it puts them in a lot of danger. Right,

3393
03:04:48,879 --> 03:04:52,240
Speaker 26: Some of them are fleeing Mexico. Others are fleeing groups

3394
03:04:52,360 --> 03:04:54,720
Speaker 26: or states that can reach them in Mexico, so it

3395
03:04:54,800 --> 03:04:58,320
Speaker 26: leaves them in an unsafe place. The other thing he

3396
03:04:58,400 --> 03:05:01,680
Speaker 26: did while Trump was still in the inaugural ceremonies, like

3397
03:05:01,760 --> 03:05:06,960
Speaker 26: literally minutes after taking office, was canceling CBP one CBP one.

3398
03:05:07,240 --> 03:05:09,880
Speaker 3: There is a lot of misinformation about what CBP one is.

3399
03:05:10,160 --> 03:05:13,840
Speaker 26: CBP one is an application that allowed migrants to make

3400
03:05:13,879 --> 03:05:16,760
Speaker 26: an appointment and they had to be either in southern

3401
03:05:16,840 --> 03:05:19,959
Speaker 26: border states of Mexico or north of Mexico City. They

3402
03:05:20,000 --> 03:05:22,640
Speaker 26: could then make an appointment to approach a United States

3403
03:05:22,760 --> 03:05:24,800
Speaker 26: port of entry, those that are places where you can

3404
03:05:24,959 --> 03:05:27,480
Speaker 26: enter across the land border and make their case for

3405
03:05:27,520 --> 03:05:29,760
Speaker 26: their asylum right, do their first asylum interview.

3406
03:05:30,040 --> 03:05:31,880
Speaker 13: Like this is like following the law, Like this is

3407
03:05:31,959 --> 03:05:33,160
Speaker 13: like the process.

3408
03:05:33,320 --> 03:05:35,920
Speaker 26: Yeah, making a CBP one appointment is quote unquote the

3409
03:05:36,040 --> 03:05:37,080
Speaker 26: right way exactly.

3410
03:05:37,160 --> 03:05:37,959
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

3411
03:05:37,959 --> 03:05:39,680
Speaker 26: You have a legal right to enter between ports of

3412
03:05:39,800 --> 03:05:41,560
Speaker 26: entry and still make an asylum claim, which is what

3413
03:05:41,680 --> 03:05:45,720
Speaker 26: we saw in their outdoor attention situation, right. But doing

3414
03:05:45,840 --> 03:05:49,080
Speaker 26: it via CBP one is like the belt embraces correct

3415
03:05:49,160 --> 03:05:52,119
Speaker 26: way to do it. People who had appointments at noon

3416
03:05:52,360 --> 03:05:56,120
Speaker 26: Pacific on the day Trump was inaugurated saw those appointments canceled.

3417
03:05:56,560 --> 03:05:59,640
Speaker 26: They can't make appointments anymore. CBP one is gone. Those

3418
03:05:59,680 --> 03:06:02,160
Speaker 26: people who have waited an average of nine months in

3419
03:06:02,320 --> 03:06:05,920
Speaker 26: dangerous places have wasted their time. They now don't have

3420
03:06:06,040 --> 03:06:08,280
Speaker 26: a pathway to asylum in this country. If you go

3421
03:06:08,400 --> 03:06:11,080
Speaker 26: back to my episodes on the Daddian Gap, you will

3422
03:06:11,120 --> 03:06:12,120
Speaker 26: hear some of those people.

3423
03:06:12,240 --> 03:06:12,360
Speaker 4: Right.

3424
03:06:12,400 --> 03:06:16,520
Speaker 26: Those people are now stuck in Mexico without really any

3425
03:06:16,879 --> 03:06:17,959
Speaker 26: legal means.

3426
03:06:17,760 --> 03:06:19,560
Speaker 3: To enter the United States and claim asylum.

3427
03:06:20,320 --> 03:06:24,119
Speaker 26: Trumps directed ICE to increase detention capacity. We spoke about

3428
03:06:24,160 --> 03:06:27,360
Speaker 26: this in our previous podcast. Don't the amount of detention

3429
03:06:27,480 --> 03:06:31,119
Speaker 26: beds they would need to hit the thirteen million deportations

3430
03:06:31,160 --> 03:06:33,560
Speaker 26: they talked about it is immense. But one of the

3431
03:06:33,600 --> 03:06:36,959
Speaker 26: things they are doing is starting to house it's people

3432
03:06:36,959 --> 03:06:40,400
Speaker 26: whose countries won't accept them for deportation, right, which is

3433
03:06:40,480 --> 03:06:43,640
Speaker 26: a thing that has happened. The United States has begun

3434
03:06:43,800 --> 03:06:47,120
Speaker 26: using military aircraft for deportations in the last two weeks.

3435
03:06:47,720 --> 03:06:50,119
Speaker 26: I want to stress that this isn't a capacity issue.

3436
03:06:50,680 --> 03:06:53,360
Speaker 26: Biden deported eight thousand people in a month in the

3437
03:06:53,920 --> 03:06:56,760
Speaker 26: September to October of twenty twenty one. Trump is aiming

3438
03:06:56,840 --> 03:07:01,200
Speaker 26: to hit five thousand. Biden did it all with contractor flights.

3439
03:07:01,640 --> 03:07:05,279
Speaker 26: Trump is doing a lower number and using air force flights.

3440
03:07:06,440 --> 03:07:08,800
Speaker 26: This is not because he can't get the contractors. It's

3441
03:07:08,920 --> 03:07:12,320
Speaker 26: purely an esthetic choice, and it's an esthetic choice which

3442
03:07:12,320 --> 03:07:16,600
Speaker 26: has roffled enough feathers in South and Central America that

3443
03:07:16,760 --> 03:07:19,440
Speaker 26: you have Honduras saying that they're going to revote the

3444
03:07:19,480 --> 03:07:21,440
Speaker 26: US mission to have a military base in Honduras is

3445
03:07:21,440 --> 03:07:27,120
Speaker 26: a mistreat migrants. We had Columbia briefly refusing US military

3446
03:07:27,160 --> 03:07:30,000
Speaker 26: flights with deportees. Mexico doing the same.

3447
03:07:30,520 --> 03:07:33,840
Speaker 13: Briefly entering a trade war with Columbia. Yeah, Yes, which

3448
03:07:33,879 --> 03:07:35,040
Speaker 13: lasted about two hours.

3449
03:07:35,200 --> 03:07:38,680
Speaker 2: The one hour trade war about the same length as

3450
03:07:38,800 --> 03:07:42,080
Speaker 2: the Civil war in Western Yugoslavia.

3451
03:07:42,360 --> 03:07:42,560
Speaker 3: Yeah.

3452
03:07:42,920 --> 03:07:45,360
Speaker 26: The trade war with Columbia was averted when Columbia sent

3453
03:07:45,400 --> 03:07:48,520
Speaker 26: its own military plane to get these deportees.

3454
03:07:48,600 --> 03:07:48,760
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3455
03:07:48,879 --> 03:07:50,359
Speaker 13: Columbia caved immediately.

3456
03:07:50,480 --> 03:07:53,560
Speaker 26: Yeah, then they will continue to accept US deportees as

3457
03:07:53,600 --> 03:07:55,520
Speaker 26: they have done for a long time. Right again, if

3458
03:07:55,520 --> 03:07:57,120
Speaker 26: you listen to my Darien series, you'll hear of some

3459
03:07:57,320 --> 03:08:00,200
Speaker 26: Colombian people being deported. We're now getting into things that

3460
03:08:00,280 --> 03:08:03,680
Speaker 26: are like more. These are orders that we haven't seen

3461
03:08:04,200 --> 03:08:07,080
Speaker 26: realized yet. One of them is he is He has

3462
03:08:07,959 --> 03:08:12,080
Speaker 26: talked about having the Attorney General remove as far as

3463
03:08:12,200 --> 03:08:16,280
Speaker 26: possible federal funding from so called sanctuary jurisdictions. Right these

3464
03:08:16,280 --> 03:08:19,240
Speaker 26: are normally places where local law enforcement will cooperate with

3465
03:08:19,440 --> 03:08:23,240
Speaker 26: federal immigration enforcement. ICE makes a majority of its detentions

3466
03:08:24,000 --> 03:08:26,480
Speaker 26: from people who are already detained, people who are like

3467
03:08:26,560 --> 03:08:30,400
Speaker 26: arrested by police, yes exactly, for whatever. Then those police

3468
03:08:30,520 --> 03:08:33,200
Speaker 26: notify ICE and ICE come get them. We've seen a

3469
03:08:33,240 --> 03:08:37,560
Speaker 26: lot more of door to door ICE rates in the

3470
03:08:37,680 --> 03:08:40,520
Speaker 26: last two weeks, and they've been ramping up even really

3471
03:08:40,640 --> 03:08:43,640
Speaker 26: really this week. But ever since Trump was inaugurated, we've

3472
03:08:43,720 --> 03:08:47,560
Speaker 26: seen ICE attempting to enter people's homes. Often they just

3473
03:08:47,680 --> 03:08:51,040
Speaker 26: have a warrant issued by themselves rather than they judicial warrant,

3474
03:08:51,120 --> 03:08:53,680
Speaker 26: so we've seen people refusing to let them into their homes.

3475
03:08:54,400 --> 03:08:58,320
Speaker 26: We've also seen the removal of the quote unquote sensitive

3476
03:08:58,400 --> 03:09:02,480
Speaker 26: places doctrine. Yeah, sensitive places had previously been understood to

3477
03:09:02,520 --> 03:09:07,640
Speaker 26: be schools, churches, and hospitals. Now ICE is conducting quote

3478
03:09:07,720 --> 03:09:09,640
Speaker 26: unquote enforcement operations.

3479
03:09:09,160 --> 03:09:09,920
Speaker 3: In those places.

3480
03:09:10,800 --> 03:09:13,760
Speaker 26: Those are actually places that, like the Sensitive Places doctrine,

3481
03:09:13,800 --> 03:09:15,880
Speaker 26: have been in place for a long time. This wasn't

3482
03:09:16,200 --> 03:09:17,879
Speaker 26: like a Biden thing that this was. This had been

3483
03:09:17,920 --> 03:09:21,119
Speaker 26: a long term thing. So ICE is now and we've

3484
03:09:21,200 --> 03:09:25,080
Speaker 26: seen immigration actions conducted at like a church in Atlanta,

3485
03:09:25,240 --> 03:09:28,720
Speaker 26: for instance. We've seen I think they were actually Secret

3486
03:09:28,879 --> 03:09:32,080
Speaker 26: Service agents who identified themselves as an ICE agent, sort

3487
03:09:32,120 --> 03:09:35,720
Speaker 26: of school in Chicago because a child had posted an

3488
03:09:35,720 --> 03:09:36,600
Speaker 26: anti Trump video.

3489
03:09:37,160 --> 03:09:39,160
Speaker 3: And then I guess the.

3490
03:09:39,400 --> 03:09:43,640
Speaker 26: Last thing that we are seeing is this designation of

3491
03:09:44,000 --> 03:09:48,280
Speaker 26: organized crime groups as foreign terrorist organizations. This is an

3492
03:09:48,320 --> 03:09:50,640
Speaker 26: interesting one. We haven't really seen any action on this yet,

3493
03:09:50,680 --> 03:09:52,800
Speaker 26: but it's one of his executive orders. In day one

3494
03:09:53,440 --> 03:09:57,720
Speaker 26: in his first administration, he designated irand Kuld Force as

3495
03:09:57,840 --> 03:10:01,440
Speaker 26: a foreign terrorist organization and then needed to kill their leader. Right,

3496
03:10:02,000 --> 03:10:08,040
Speaker 26: So this FDO designation opens up the possibility of a

3497
03:10:08,120 --> 03:10:10,959
Speaker 26: lot of like covert activity I'm talking like the CIA

3498
03:10:11,280 --> 03:10:15,760
Speaker 26: and like Tier one special forces units. It also allows

3499
03:10:15,920 --> 03:10:20,840
Speaker 26: him to bring about economic sanctions on anyone materially supporting

3500
03:10:20,959 --> 03:10:26,320
Speaker 26: these organized crime organizations. In practice, that would encompass huge

3501
03:10:26,560 --> 03:10:30,039
Speaker 26: swaths of the Mexican economy, right, because there are people

3502
03:10:30,680 --> 03:10:34,160
Speaker 26: in agriculture, people in business who are paying protection or

3503
03:10:34,520 --> 03:10:37,800
Speaker 26: they're being extorted to pay money, right, And so in theory,

3504
03:10:37,840 --> 03:10:40,840
Speaker 26: those people are now materially delefating a tent terrorist organization

3505
03:10:40,920 --> 03:10:44,360
Speaker 26: and they could be sanctioned as well. We will have

3506
03:10:44,560 --> 03:10:47,960
Speaker 26: to see how this plays out, I guess, and they're

3507
03:10:48,000 --> 03:10:51,160
Speaker 26: still the directive was to look into and then name

3508
03:10:51,280 --> 03:10:51,840
Speaker 26: these groups.

3509
03:10:52,240 --> 03:10:55,680
Speaker 13: Well, and it's something that heg Seth has previously been

3510
03:10:55,720 --> 03:10:58,039
Speaker 13: in favor of and he has now been confirmed.

3511
03:10:58,120 --> 03:11:01,240
Speaker 26: Yes, yeah, Hegseth has talked to about using special forces

3512
03:11:01,280 --> 03:11:01,800
Speaker 26: in Mexico.

3513
03:11:02,080 --> 03:11:04,960
Speaker 2: Oh yes, and this this was a Gender forty seven stuff.

3514
03:11:04,959 --> 03:11:06,560
Speaker 2: They've been talking about this for a while.

3515
03:11:06,680 --> 03:11:06,880
Speaker 9: Yeah.

3516
03:11:07,040 --> 03:11:09,280
Speaker 26: Yeah, it's also in our Agenda forty seven episodes if

3517
03:11:09,280 --> 03:11:11,560
Speaker 26: people want to go back there a direct action rate

3518
03:11:11,680 --> 03:11:16,600
Speaker 26: in Mexico, drone warfare in Mexico. Obviously, doing this without

3519
03:11:16,680 --> 03:11:19,400
Speaker 26: the permission of the Mexican government would be an act

3520
03:11:19,480 --> 03:11:23,360
Speaker 26: of war, right, like killing foreign nationals without the permission

3521
03:11:23,360 --> 03:11:27,199
Speaker 26: of their government, conducting direct action raids bombing another country

3522
03:11:27,760 --> 03:11:30,440
Speaker 26: like that, That is an act of war. The US

3523
03:11:30,480 --> 03:11:33,560
Speaker 26: has had an fid FED Foreign Internal Defense Mission right

3524
03:11:33,560 --> 03:11:37,000
Speaker 26: where it trains advisors and assists Mexican law enforcement and

3525
03:11:37,080 --> 03:11:40,480
Speaker 26: military for a long time. The guys who arrested El Chappa,

3526
03:11:40,560 --> 03:11:42,720
Speaker 26: for instance, were trained I think by mass Sock. But

3527
03:11:42,879 --> 03:11:44,880
Speaker 26: this has been happening for a long time. But to

3528
03:11:45,000 --> 03:11:48,119
Speaker 26: go from that to unsanctioned direct action would be a huge,

3529
03:11:48,800 --> 03:11:51,680
Speaker 26: a huge step up. The only really analogous, directly analogous

3530
03:11:51,680 --> 03:11:53,959
Speaker 26: thing I can think of is Clinton with a plan

3531
03:11:54,080 --> 03:11:57,640
Speaker 26: Columbia designating FARC as a foreign terrorist organization. But that

3532
03:11:57,760 --> 03:11:59,720
Speaker 26: was very much with the cooperation and support of the

3533
03:11:59,760 --> 03:12:03,000
Speaker 26: co being government, and we're seeing a much more adversarial

3534
03:12:03,879 --> 03:12:08,280
Speaker 26: relationship between the United States and Mexico right now. The

3535
03:12:08,400 --> 03:12:10,400
Speaker 26: last thing I want to mention is that this deployment,

3536
03:12:10,520 --> 03:12:13,400
Speaker 26: I've spoken about it, but they're about sixteen hundred troops

3537
03:12:13,400 --> 03:12:17,160
Speaker 26: deployed right now. Biden deployed fifteen hundred troops in the

3538
03:12:17,240 --> 03:12:19,400
Speaker 26: summer of twenty twenty three. This is not a vastly

3539
03:12:19,440 --> 03:12:22,119
Speaker 26: different number, but they are doing different things. They seem

3540
03:12:22,120 --> 03:12:24,000
Speaker 26: to be chucking razor wire on top of the wall

3541
03:12:24,080 --> 03:12:27,320
Speaker 26: and being photographed at their two major jobs at the moment.

3542
03:12:27,920 --> 03:12:29,160
Speaker 3: We will see how that plays out.

3543
03:12:29,320 --> 03:12:32,960
Speaker 26: Also with reference to a military Trump immediately canceled the

3544
03:12:33,040 --> 03:12:36,040
Speaker 26: refugee resettlement program. With this left people all over the

3545
03:12:36,080 --> 03:12:39,880
Speaker 26: world stranded, including Afghanist many of whom worked for the

3546
03:12:39,959 --> 03:12:43,560
Speaker 26: United States or family members of US service people. Their

3547
03:12:43,640 --> 03:12:46,400
Speaker 26: refugee resettlement program, people don't come to the southern border.

3548
03:12:46,959 --> 03:12:48,800
Speaker 26: They go do all their background things and then fly

3549
03:12:48,959 --> 03:12:51,119
Speaker 26: into the United States. It's a different status to entering

3550
03:12:51,160 --> 03:12:54,480
Speaker 26: and claiming asylum. Those people, many of whom had booked flights,

3551
03:12:54,680 --> 03:12:55,880
Speaker 26: found their flights were canceled.

3552
03:12:55,959 --> 03:12:56,840
Speaker 3: They're now stranded.

3553
03:12:57,000 --> 03:12:59,520
Speaker 26: Lots of them were stranded in Pakistan and facing immigration

3554
03:12:59,680 --> 03:13:02,600
Speaker 26: enforcement there in the case of the Afghans. So yeah,

3555
03:13:02,640 --> 03:13:06,280
Speaker 26: that is a speed run of all the terrible Trump

3556
03:13:06,440 --> 03:13:10,000
Speaker 26: immigration executive orders. We'll be reporting on this pretty extensively,

3557
03:13:10,200 --> 03:13:13,120
Speaker 26: so you can keep coming back for more. But another

3558
03:13:13,160 --> 03:13:16,560
Speaker 26: thing that we have more of right now is advertisements.

3559
03:13:26,920 --> 03:13:29,200
Speaker 13: Okay, we are back. I have a few other notes

3560
03:13:29,240 --> 03:13:32,400
Speaker 13: I want to add for the woke front that I'm

3561
03:13:32,440 --> 03:13:34,760
Speaker 13: reporting on right now. I think it's been a lot

3562
03:13:34,760 --> 03:13:36,840
Speaker 13: of conflation between you know, like DEI and like what

3563
03:13:36,920 --> 03:13:39,800
Speaker 13: we would consider like affirmative action DEI refers to like

3564
03:13:39,920 --> 03:13:44,640
Speaker 13: these specific like corporate training policies and diversity initiatives, which is,

3565
03:13:44,720 --> 03:13:48,680
Speaker 13: you know, separate from long standing affirmative action policies, which

3566
03:13:48,680 --> 03:13:50,840
Speaker 13: has been used both in the corporate world and in

3567
03:13:50,920 --> 03:13:53,400
Speaker 13: like the government for like decades at this point. And

3568
03:13:53,560 --> 03:13:56,240
Speaker 13: what a whole bunch of this DEI rollback type stuff

3569
03:13:56,320 --> 03:14:00,200
Speaker 13: is essentially doing is just openly discriminating against the people

3570
03:14:00,200 --> 03:14:02,200
Speaker 13: who are not like straight white men. It's like, if

3571
03:14:02,240 --> 03:14:03,920
Speaker 13: you are a straight white man, we cannot hire you

3572
03:14:04,080 --> 03:14:07,520
Speaker 13: because that would mean we are doing DEI. And like,

3573
03:14:07,600 --> 03:14:09,200
Speaker 13: this is what a lot of the stuff that we're

3574
03:14:09,200 --> 03:14:11,840
Speaker 13: seeing kind of looks like. There was a mass email

3575
03:14:11,879 --> 03:14:15,879
Speaker 13: to federal agencies about DEI and calls to report DEI

3576
03:14:16,040 --> 03:14:19,640
Speaker 13: policies in their department if they're going by like other names, right,

3577
03:14:19,720 --> 03:14:21,240
Speaker 13: So that would be stuff like affirmative action.

3578
03:14:21,360 --> 03:14:21,440
Speaker 15: Right.

3579
03:14:21,480 --> 03:14:24,960
Speaker 13: If there's anything that is about you know, trying to

3580
03:14:25,200 --> 03:14:27,920
Speaker 13: trying to increase the diversity in your workforce or any

3581
03:14:27,959 --> 03:14:31,840
Speaker 13: quote unquote woke topics including you know, gender ideology, anything

3582
03:14:32,200 --> 03:14:35,720
Speaker 13: anything that seems vaguely woke, you're supposed to now report

3583
03:14:36,080 --> 03:14:38,280
Speaker 13: to make sure that gets removed because that's not part

3584
03:14:38,320 --> 03:14:40,680
Speaker 13: of the new federal government. I believe someone from the

3585
03:14:40,800 --> 03:14:44,520
Speaker 13: NSA did leave a tip on that email line reporting

3586
03:14:44,600 --> 03:14:48,960
Speaker 13: DEI masquerading as as another name. Similar to this, there

3587
03:14:49,160 --> 03:14:51,400
Speaker 13: was a memo or an email that was leaked to

3588
03:14:51,520 --> 03:14:56,440
Speaker 13: Ken Klippenstein from the Defense Intelligence Agency which basically said

3589
03:14:56,800 --> 03:14:59,680
Speaker 13: that they're not going to be observing any any woke

3590
03:14:59,800 --> 03:15:04,480
Speaker 13: call holidays, including Martin Luther King Junior's Birthday, Black History Month,

3591
03:15:04,600 --> 03:15:09,279
Speaker 13: Women's History Months, the Holocaust Remembrance Day, Asian American Pacific

3592
03:15:09,320 --> 03:15:13,240
Speaker 13: Islander Heritage Month, Pride Month, Juneteenth, Women's Equality Day, National

3593
03:15:13,360 --> 03:15:17,720
Speaker 13: Hispanic Heritage Month, National Disability Employment Awareness Month, and National

3594
03:15:17,760 --> 03:15:20,720
Speaker 13: American Indian Heritage Month, with a small asterisk saying that

3595
03:15:20,800 --> 03:15:24,440
Speaker 13: the pause on observing these will not affect the federal holidays,

3596
03:15:24,480 --> 03:15:27,520
Speaker 13: which would be MLK and June teenth, although who knows,

3597
03:15:27,520 --> 03:15:29,440
Speaker 13: they might try to even remove some of those as

3598
03:15:29,520 --> 03:15:30,520
Speaker 13: being federal holidays.

3599
03:15:30,840 --> 03:15:33,520
Speaker 26: I did wonder that, like, at some point, you're gonna,

3600
03:15:33,760 --> 03:15:35,480
Speaker 26: like you're gonna lose people when you take away their

3601
03:15:35,560 --> 03:15:36,120
Speaker 26: days off work.

3602
03:15:36,600 --> 03:15:39,200
Speaker 13: I get like that, right, right, So like I think

3603
03:15:39,560 --> 03:15:42,040
Speaker 13: they might leave those like actual federal holidays in but

3604
03:15:42,120 --> 03:15:44,360
Speaker 13: you're not allowed to observe any of these any of

3605
03:15:44,440 --> 03:15:48,039
Speaker 13: these other awareness months or or you know, Pride Month,

3606
03:15:48,560 --> 03:15:52,120
Speaker 13: Black History months, like you're not allowed to acknowledge that

3607
03:15:52,400 --> 03:15:55,160
Speaker 13: at all in these federal agencies now, at least for

3608
03:15:55,240 --> 03:16:00,440
Speaker 13: the Defense Intelligence Agency, support for most of Trump's executive

3609
03:16:00,560 --> 03:16:06,000
Speaker 13: orders does fluctuate. According to a poll from Reuters, the

3610
03:16:06,160 --> 03:16:10,000
Speaker 13: support for closing all DEI offices is actually pretty split.

3611
03:16:10,879 --> 03:16:14,160
Speaker 13: Fifty one percent oppose the closing of these offices, according

3612
03:16:14,160 --> 03:16:17,080
Speaker 13: to their poll, Forty four percent are in favor, and

3613
03:16:17,520 --> 03:16:20,920
Speaker 13: it's very segmented. Renaming the Gulf of Mexico to be

3614
03:16:21,000 --> 03:16:24,000
Speaker 13: the Gulf of America pretty disliked, with seventy percent being

3615
03:16:24,560 --> 03:16:25,199
Speaker 13: in opposition.

3616
03:16:25,440 --> 03:16:28,560
Speaker 2: Look, the one thing people hate most is changing names.

3617
03:16:28,840 --> 03:16:29,840
Speaker 13: Having the names been Lang.

3618
03:16:29,959 --> 03:16:31,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, nobody likes that.

3619
03:16:32,480 --> 03:16:32,640
Speaker 6: Yeah.

3620
03:16:32,720 --> 03:16:34,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, he did Denali as well, Right.

3621
03:16:34,520 --> 03:16:36,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess that was changed more recently. But the

3622
03:16:36,879 --> 03:16:39,280
Speaker 2: Gulf of Mexico has been the Gulf of Mexico for

3623
03:16:39,480 --> 03:16:42,880
Speaker 2: longer than its America has existed as a country, the

3624
03:16:43,040 --> 03:16:44,199
Speaker 2: United States, right.

3625
03:16:44,400 --> 03:16:46,879
Speaker 26: I mean, Denali has been Denali for longer than America

3626
03:16:46,920 --> 03:16:49,680
Speaker 26: has existed. It's just right, right, right, But there was

3627
03:16:49,720 --> 03:16:52,400
Speaker 26: a period where we called it McKinley. No one's ever

3628
03:16:52,520 --> 03:16:55,040
Speaker 26: called it the Gulf of America. Yeah, yeah, I'm not

3629
03:16:55,120 --> 03:16:57,680
Speaker 26: saying the Denali thing's right, I'm just saying like that's

3630
03:16:57,720 --> 03:16:59,480
Speaker 26: a much harder.

3631
03:16:59,280 --> 03:17:01,240
Speaker 3: So yes, yeah, yeah, you're not going to get much

3632
03:17:01,240 --> 03:17:01,720
Speaker 3: buying on that.

3633
03:17:02,200 --> 03:17:02,400
Speaker 7: Yeah.

3634
03:17:03,120 --> 03:17:07,840
Speaker 13: Pardening J six protesters, new tariffs or taxes on Canadian goods,

3635
03:17:07,879 --> 03:17:11,480
Speaker 13: and ending birthright citizenship are all around sixty to thirty

3636
03:17:11,680 --> 03:17:16,199
Speaker 13: sixty oppose thirty percent in favor. Trump during his first

3637
03:17:16,240 --> 03:17:20,000
Speaker 13: week did see a record high approval rating that has slowly,

3638
03:17:20,280 --> 03:17:23,000
Speaker 13: I think gone down, but I don't know. It's hard

3639
03:17:23,040 --> 03:17:25,080
Speaker 13: to gauge the level of like general enthusiasm for his

3640
03:17:25,200 --> 03:17:28,360
Speaker 13: actions right now. And there's I think part of like

3641
03:17:28,440 --> 03:17:31,200
Speaker 13: the general strategy that we're seeing is there's just so

3642
03:17:31,440 --> 03:17:34,080
Speaker 13: much happening every single day that you can't even keep

3643
03:17:34,200 --> 03:17:36,640
Speaker 13: track of it all, let alone like internalize it. Like

3644
03:17:36,920 --> 03:17:39,080
Speaker 13: he's he is trying to sign as many of these

3645
03:17:39,200 --> 03:17:42,080
Speaker 13: orders every day so that both the courts, all of

3646
03:17:42,160 --> 03:17:46,320
Speaker 13: these like NGOs, advocacy groups are always working and we're

3647
03:17:46,360 --> 03:17:48,680
Speaker 13: never sure what is real, right, We're never sure what's

3648
03:17:48,680 --> 03:17:52,040
Speaker 13: going to stick around all of these memos about funding

3649
03:17:52,160 --> 03:17:56,160
Speaker 13: and grants. It's just so exhausting. And that's like part

3650
03:17:56,240 --> 03:17:58,360
Speaker 13: of the design is that this just feels like a

3651
03:17:58,520 --> 03:18:01,760
Speaker 13: constant stream of nonsense that we maybe have to deal with,

3652
03:18:01,879 --> 03:18:05,920
Speaker 13: maybe we won't. One of the more odd things is

3653
03:18:06,160 --> 03:18:10,320
Speaker 13: Trump openly embracing manifest destiny language, which I guess isn't

3654
03:18:10,320 --> 03:18:12,520
Speaker 13: actually odd, that's actually makes sense. It's just one of

3655
03:18:12,560 --> 03:18:16,360
Speaker 13: those things that it feels very rubicon esque. But he

3656
03:18:16,440 --> 03:18:20,120
Speaker 13: does have this new distinct focus on territorial expansion. During

3657
03:18:20,160 --> 03:18:23,199
Speaker 13: his inaugural address, he praised quote unquote to our American

3658
03:18:23,240 --> 03:18:28,880
Speaker 13: ancestors for having quote won the wild West. Now, apparently

3659
03:18:29,440 --> 03:18:32,640
Speaker 13: the call about Greenland to Denmark did not go very well.

3660
03:18:32,959 --> 03:18:35,920
Speaker 13: Denmark did not realize how serious Trump was, and it

3661
03:18:36,040 --> 03:18:39,360
Speaker 13: was apparently quite angry during that phone call, and you know,

3662
03:18:39,600 --> 03:18:43,000
Speaker 13: seemingly upset that Denmark is not going to easily hand

3663
03:18:43,040 --> 03:18:48,160
Speaker 13: over Greenland. He seems to be pivoting more towards retaking Panama. Yeah,

3664
03:18:48,760 --> 03:18:50,800
Speaker 13: which is which is something that he also mentioned in

3665
03:18:50,920 --> 03:18:52,080
Speaker 13: his inaugural address.

3666
03:18:52,240 --> 03:18:55,920
Speaker 26: Let me tell you, Panamanians not stoked. I've been receiving

3667
03:18:56,000 --> 03:18:59,000
Speaker 26: communications from Panama where it was his step down, but

3668
03:18:59,080 --> 03:19:00,480
Speaker 26: they are burning American flags.

3669
03:19:00,600 --> 03:19:03,120
Speaker 13: The quote from the inaugural address is quote the United

3670
03:19:03,120 --> 03:19:06,119
Speaker 13: States will once again consider itself a growing nation. When

3671
03:19:06,160 --> 03:19:08,960
Speaker 13: that increases our wealth and carries our flag into new

3672
03:19:09,120 --> 03:19:12,879
Speaker 13: beautiful horizons, and we will pursue our manifest destiny into

3673
03:19:12,920 --> 03:19:13,480
Speaker 13: the stars.

3674
03:19:13,760 --> 03:19:14,000
Speaker 4: Wow.

3675
03:19:14,680 --> 03:19:17,040
Speaker 13: Yeah, I don't know, what do you have to do?

3676
03:19:17,240 --> 03:19:22,720
Speaker 3: That's not a good thing. I think that's bad.

3677
03:19:23,040 --> 03:19:27,520
Speaker 13: Like obviously, that's you know, not great, not ideal. You know,

3678
03:19:27,840 --> 03:19:31,879
Speaker 13: invading Panama not ideal. Going to war with Greenland slightly

3679
03:19:31,959 --> 03:19:35,120
Speaker 13: more funny because it's cold. I think specifically is focused on,

3680
03:19:35,240 --> 03:19:37,680
Speaker 13: like why that he believes the US has a vested

3681
03:19:37,680 --> 03:19:40,000
Speaker 13: interest in Greenland, isn't just picking out a spot on

3682
03:19:40,080 --> 03:19:42,640
Speaker 13: the map. I think this also could be like related

3683
03:19:42,800 --> 03:19:45,480
Speaker 13: to trying to prepare for climate change. Having territory in

3684
03:19:45,520 --> 03:19:48,960
Speaker 13: the Arctic is going to become an increasingly valuable commodity

3685
03:19:49,040 --> 03:19:50,600
Speaker 13: to have. And and I think there is a part

3686
03:19:50,640 --> 03:19:54,120
Speaker 13: of this that could be legitimately on that side, because

3687
03:19:54,120 --> 03:19:56,240
Speaker 13: I mean, I don't know, Maybe Trump should just get

3688
03:19:56,280 --> 03:19:57,080
Speaker 13: really into Alaska.

3689
03:19:57,360 --> 03:20:00,959
Speaker 26: Well, he did deregulate drilling in Alaska, Drill baby drill.

3690
03:20:01,160 --> 03:20:03,680
Speaker 26: I will be up there later this year talking to

3691
03:20:03,760 --> 03:20:05,840
Speaker 26: people in Alaska about drill baby drill.

3692
03:20:06,000 --> 03:20:08,160
Speaker 13: Very excited for that, But I don't know I think

3693
03:20:08,160 --> 03:20:12,400
Speaker 13: it's also generally not super useful to make huge generalizing

3694
03:20:12,440 --> 03:20:14,520
Speaker 13: statements about what this type of stuff Trump is doing

3695
03:20:14,600 --> 03:20:18,000
Speaker 13: right now and how it will reflect on his entire presidency.

3696
03:20:18,520 --> 03:20:20,800
Speaker 13: People have been been doing this kind of about Trump's

3697
03:20:21,040 --> 03:20:24,760
Speaker 13: flip flopping opinions on TikTok, you know, being very into like,

3698
03:20:24,840 --> 03:20:27,600
Speaker 13: you know, saving TikTok and then then calling it worthless,

3699
03:20:28,120 --> 03:20:31,280
Speaker 13: but then going back to actually making sure that Microsoft

3700
03:20:31,360 --> 03:20:33,440
Speaker 13: buys it or something. And you know, people are very

3701
03:20:33,480 --> 03:20:36,800
Speaker 13: easy or quick to like jump onto these sorts of things.

3702
03:20:37,160 --> 03:20:40,920
Speaker 13: Trump's flip flopping tendencies maybe not sinking every single easy

3703
03:20:41,000 --> 03:20:43,360
Speaker 13: bucket and acting like these would be emblematic of his

3704
03:20:43,600 --> 03:20:46,320
Speaker 13: entire presidency, and like that's not the case. That that

3705
03:20:46,720 --> 03:20:49,880
Speaker 13: does not actually mean that Trump just says things even

3706
03:20:49,920 --> 03:20:52,360
Speaker 13: though he's gonna call TikTok worthless, does not mean that

3707
03:20:52,879 --> 03:20:55,760
Speaker 13: he's going to not do that easy lay up. We're

3708
03:20:55,800 --> 03:20:57,880
Speaker 13: all aware of how much he just says what is

3709
03:20:57,959 --> 03:20:58,680
Speaker 13: on his mind.

3710
03:20:59,000 --> 03:20:59,200
Speaker 4: Yep.

3711
03:21:00,000 --> 03:21:02,160
Speaker 13: And I think these sorts of things do not necessarily

3712
03:21:02,240 --> 03:21:03,760
Speaker 13: mean that he's going to like plummet to being the

3713
03:21:03,800 --> 03:21:07,960
Speaker 13: most unpopular president ever because he refuses to use the

3714
03:21:08,080 --> 03:21:12,120
Speaker 13: right messaging around TikTok or something. The other economic situations

3715
03:21:12,160 --> 03:21:14,560
Speaker 13: he might walk us into would be you know, much

3716
03:21:14,959 --> 03:21:17,119
Speaker 13: much more affecting to his general popularity.

3717
03:21:17,400 --> 03:21:20,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's he is doing again. I talk about

3718
03:21:20,160 --> 03:21:23,920
Speaker 2: this a lot. Why fascists succeed is that they try,

3719
03:21:24,800 --> 03:21:30,200
Speaker 2: like they're constantly reaching for stuff, and oftentimes like they overreach,

3720
03:21:30,400 --> 03:21:33,160
Speaker 2: but nobody pushes back so they get the thing. Right,

3721
03:21:33,240 --> 03:21:35,840
Speaker 2: That's what he's doing here. Do I think that he's

3722
03:21:36,400 --> 03:21:38,959
Speaker 2: willing at this point to commit to a full scale

3723
03:21:39,040 --> 03:21:42,520
Speaker 2: military invasion and armed occupation of Panama, a thing that

3724
03:21:42,640 --> 03:21:46,800
Speaker 2: could be a real problem for his presidency? Right, like

3725
03:21:47,120 --> 03:21:51,040
Speaker 2: US troops dying in meaningful numbers in attacks in a

3726
03:21:51,080 --> 03:21:53,680
Speaker 2: country that we had no fucking beef with before. That

3727
03:21:53,800 --> 03:21:56,040
Speaker 2: could be a real fucking problem for a guy who

3728
03:21:56,160 --> 03:21:59,160
Speaker 2: ran on the things that he ran on. But maybe

3729
03:21:59,200 --> 03:22:01,400
Speaker 2: he gets a bunch of sessions for nothing. It's the

3730
03:22:01,440 --> 03:22:03,680
Speaker 2: same thing with Greenland. You make the push, you try

3731
03:22:03,760 --> 03:22:06,880
Speaker 2: to scare Denmark, you try to scare Greenland, and you

3732
03:22:06,959 --> 03:22:09,760
Speaker 2: see if they'll accept something, and then you you walk away,

3733
03:22:09,879 --> 03:22:12,440
Speaker 2: maybe with a coup, and you do it fucking widely enough,

3734
03:22:13,120 --> 03:22:15,680
Speaker 2: you might get something right like That's that's it.

3735
03:22:15,920 --> 03:22:17,599
Speaker 13: He's always testing his limits.

3736
03:22:17,280 --> 03:22:18,200
Speaker 3: Because that's what they do.

3737
03:22:18,440 --> 03:22:21,280
Speaker 26: Yeah, I mean, look at Columbia, right, he immediately went

3738
03:22:21,400 --> 03:22:26,080
Speaker 26: to like eleven on the retaliation scale and effectively receive concessions.

3739
03:22:27,200 --> 03:22:27,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

3740
03:22:28,080 --> 03:22:30,680
Speaker 13: So, I think, you know, similar to how you know

3741
03:22:30,920 --> 03:22:33,680
Speaker 13: it was annoying in the first like resistlib era to

3742
03:22:33,760 --> 03:22:37,560
Speaker 13: take every single crazy statement Trump says seriously, or like

3743
03:22:37,600 --> 03:22:39,879
Speaker 13: you know, do this performative outrage over every single thing

3744
03:22:39,959 --> 03:22:42,800
Speaker 13: he does. I think it's also useless to do fast

3745
03:22:43,000 --> 03:22:47,400
Speaker 13: mimetic reactions that form generalizing statements about you know, how

3746
03:22:47,920 --> 03:22:50,440
Speaker 13: something that Trump is doing is emblematic for the rest

3747
03:22:50,480 --> 03:22:52,920
Speaker 13: of his term and now he's like doomed to failure.

3748
03:22:53,160 --> 03:22:55,360
Speaker 13: I think those statements are actually pretty useless and at

3749
03:22:55,360 --> 03:22:58,280
Speaker 13: the very least are not helpful. Right now, let's close

3750
03:22:58,360 --> 03:23:01,720
Speaker 13: by talking about Guantanamo. I guess Robert and James I'll have.

3751
03:23:03,280 --> 03:23:06,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so Trump has signed an executive order saying that

3752
03:23:06,320 --> 03:23:09,080
Speaker 2: they're going to create a facility capable of storing thirty

3753
03:23:09,120 --> 03:23:13,920
Speaker 2: thousand migrants in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. First, we should probably

3754
03:23:14,040 --> 03:23:17,760
Speaker 2: just talk about how realistic this is. If you ever

3755
03:23:17,840 --> 03:23:21,600
Speaker 2: looked at a topographical map of Guantanamo Bay, it's quite

3756
03:23:21,680 --> 03:23:25,480
Speaker 2: a large like the US concession in Cuba is a

3757
03:23:25,560 --> 03:23:28,920
Speaker 2: sizable degree of land. But it's not easy land to

3758
03:23:29,200 --> 03:23:32,880
Speaker 2: build things on, right, Like it is that it's rugged terrain,

3759
03:23:33,160 --> 03:23:36,680
Speaker 2: you would say, So making a camp like this is

3760
03:23:36,760 --> 03:23:40,240
Speaker 2: almost certainly going to be extremely expensive, and at least

3761
03:23:40,440 --> 03:23:45,040
Speaker 2: under kind of the way things currently work, it will

3762
03:23:45,120 --> 03:23:49,160
Speaker 2: probably take a good amount of time to get set

3763
03:23:49,280 --> 03:23:51,440
Speaker 2: up like. This is not a quick thing. This is

3764
03:23:51,520 --> 03:23:54,080
Speaker 2: not an overnight thing. And one thing I want to

3765
03:23:54,080 --> 03:23:57,680
Speaker 2: remind people of is that they have already have expanded

3766
03:23:57,840 --> 03:24:01,160
Speaker 2: a number of camps and facility in the US to

3767
03:24:01,280 --> 03:24:03,280
Speaker 2: deal with all the migrants they are taking in.

3768
03:24:03,879 --> 03:24:05,400
Speaker 3: So this is not the start.

3769
03:24:05,480 --> 03:24:07,320
Speaker 2: If you want to call this, and I think it's

3770
03:24:07,360 --> 03:24:10,119
Speaker 2: fair to call this a plan to start a concentration

3771
03:24:10,240 --> 03:24:13,920
Speaker 2: camp system. That system began early, and in fact it

3772
03:24:14,120 --> 03:24:17,720
Speaker 2: started before Trump took office. A decent chunk of it

3773
03:24:17,879 --> 03:24:20,040
Speaker 2: was anticipating him coming into office.

3774
03:24:20,160 --> 03:24:24,119
Speaker 3: But this is not the first camp, right, Yeah.

3775
03:24:24,480 --> 03:24:28,840
Speaker 26: And like Biden did significant legwork for tension that is

3776
03:24:28,879 --> 03:24:31,480
Speaker 26: cool and unusual. Yes, with his legal defense and his

3777
03:24:31,640 --> 03:24:34,440
Speaker 26: establishment of outdoor attention for migrants since the end of

3778
03:24:34,520 --> 03:24:37,800
Speaker 26: Title forty two in May of twenty three, And I

3779
03:24:37,879 --> 03:24:40,959
Speaker 26: think like we have to acknowledge that, I know people

3780
03:24:40,959 --> 03:24:43,000
Speaker 26: are very much into that, Like, don't criticize the Dems

3781
03:24:43,080 --> 03:24:47,560
Speaker 26: right now, Like if they don't change, if taking a

3782
03:24:47,680 --> 03:24:49,160
Speaker 26: fat l in what should have been one of the

3783
03:24:49,240 --> 03:24:53,720
Speaker 26: easiest elections of the century doesn't change them, then nothing will.

3784
03:24:54,400 --> 03:24:57,520
Speaker 26: And like we have to acknowledge that we are going

3785
03:24:57,680 --> 03:25:00,680
Speaker 26: to concentration camps quicker, I mean I will far and out.

3786
03:25:00,720 --> 03:25:01,520
Speaker 3: Let's cool the.

3787
03:25:01,520 --> 03:25:05,920
Speaker 26: Outdoor detention sites in Hakumba concentration camps right, because they

3788
03:25:06,160 --> 03:25:08,200
Speaker 26: sure as hell look like one and they are.

3789
03:25:08,600 --> 03:25:12,440
Speaker 2: This is a big personal frustration to me. I'm seeing

3790
03:25:12,520 --> 03:25:15,080
Speaker 2: a ton of people going online and comparing this to

3791
03:25:15,240 --> 03:25:18,080
Speaker 2: the Nazi concentration camp here after referred to as the

3792
03:25:18,200 --> 03:25:19,119
Speaker 2: KZ system.

3793
03:25:19,360 --> 03:25:19,520
Speaker 7: Right.

3794
03:25:20,280 --> 03:25:22,560
Speaker 2: There's one post I came across on Twitter where a

3795
03:25:22,680 --> 03:25:24,720
Speaker 2: person who'm I'm not going to name just to not

3796
03:25:25,040 --> 03:25:27,560
Speaker 2: cause a bunch of bullshit for them. Time from taking

3797
03:25:27,600 --> 03:25:30,920
Speaker 2: office to opening a mass attention camp Mussolini eight years,

3798
03:25:31,520 --> 03:25:34,600
Speaker 2: ll Gala and others, Libya Hitler fifty one days, Docau

3799
03:25:34,720 --> 03:25:40,760
Speaker 2: Germany Trump nine days. That's fucking horseshit. Yes, Docou took

3800
03:25:40,920 --> 03:25:45,000
Speaker 2: longer to establish. Docou was not the first concentration camp.

3801
03:25:45,120 --> 03:25:48,240
Speaker 2: The concentration camp system in Germany under the Nazis started

3802
03:25:48,280 --> 03:25:50,520
Speaker 2: as soon as the Nazis took power with a series

3803
03:25:50,560 --> 03:25:53,680
Speaker 2: of what we're called wild concentration camps, and this was

3804
03:25:53,840 --> 03:25:57,040
Speaker 2: involved a huge number of people, largely political enemies of

3805
03:25:57,200 --> 03:26:02,800
Speaker 2: the regime, members of the opposition party, being taken into custody, beaten, tortured,

3806
03:26:02,879 --> 03:26:06,080
Speaker 2: and stored in a series of airsats facilities. Two hundred

3807
03:26:06,200 --> 03:26:10,120
Speaker 2: thousand people were taken into custody under the wild concentration

3808
03:26:10,280 --> 03:26:12,920
Speaker 2: camp system in nineteen thirty three, the first year that

3809
03:26:13,040 --> 03:26:17,080
Speaker 2: Germans were in power. These are not comparable systems. That

3810
03:26:17,160 --> 03:26:19,640
Speaker 2: does not mean that I don't believe what Trump is

3811
03:26:19,680 --> 03:26:23,000
Speaker 2: doing is a concentration camp. It is a concentration camp

3812
03:26:23,080 --> 03:26:26,320
Speaker 2: made in the model of the American system. This is

3813
03:26:26,440 --> 03:26:30,160
Speaker 2: part of the American history of concentration camps, which goes

3814
03:26:30,280 --> 03:26:33,400
Speaker 2: back something like two hundred years right to the I mean,

3815
03:26:33,440 --> 03:26:36,480
Speaker 2: we were one of the first countries to employ concentration camps.

3816
03:26:36,760 --> 03:26:39,480
Speaker 2: The concentration camp as a concept began with what we're

3817
03:26:39,520 --> 03:26:44,080
Speaker 2: called reconcentrados in Cuba, at the behest of a Spanish

3818
03:26:44,240 --> 03:26:48,920
Speaker 2: general fighting an insurgency. There were US officers embedded there,

3819
03:26:49,440 --> 03:26:53,000
Speaker 2: they came back and those tactics were adapted for our

3820
03:26:53,080 --> 03:26:56,800
Speaker 2: wars with Native American tribes on the frontiers and the planes.

3821
03:26:56,879 --> 03:26:59,680
Speaker 2: General Sherman was one of the very first Americans to

3822
03:26:59,760 --> 03:27:04,240
Speaker 2: care out concentration camps. And what we are seeing here

3823
03:27:04,520 --> 03:27:08,040
Speaker 2: is part of America's tradition with concentration camps. It is

3824
03:27:08,160 --> 03:27:12,160
Speaker 2: not part of the German tradition with concentration camps. And

3825
03:27:12,280 --> 03:27:15,400
Speaker 2: you're going to be mistaken about like how this is

3826
03:27:15,480 --> 03:27:18,040
Speaker 2: going to proceed and what the dangers are, because I

3827
03:27:18,120 --> 03:27:20,520
Speaker 2: do not think the dangers at this point are that

3828
03:27:20,920 --> 03:27:24,440
Speaker 2: we build a death factory capable of incinerating a million

3829
03:27:24,560 --> 03:27:27,440
Speaker 2: people in less than a year. That's not the threat.

3830
03:27:27,760 --> 03:27:29,920
Speaker 2: The threat is huge numbers of people are taken into

3831
03:27:29,959 --> 03:27:32,720
Speaker 2: custody and stored in places that are not safe, that

3832
03:27:32,840 --> 03:27:34,959
Speaker 2: do not have good hygiene, that do not have good

3833
03:27:35,000 --> 03:27:38,320
Speaker 2: food standards, and a significant number of those people will

3834
03:27:38,440 --> 03:27:41,200
Speaker 2: die or suffer permanent physical injury. But it won't look

3835
03:27:41,280 --> 03:27:43,600
Speaker 2: like Auschwitz, and if that's what people are expecting, they'll

3836
03:27:43,640 --> 03:27:45,480
Speaker 2: be like, well, maybe this isn't that band, Maybe this

3837
03:27:45,600 --> 03:27:48,320
Speaker 2: isn't a concentration camp after all. So it's important to

3838
03:27:48,440 --> 03:27:51,480
Speaker 2: get things right, both for that reason and because it's

3839
03:27:51,520 --> 03:27:54,680
Speaker 2: also disrespectful to the people who died during the fucking

3840
03:27:54,760 --> 03:27:57,280
Speaker 2: Holocaust to be like, yeah, Trump's a lot worse than

3841
03:27:57,360 --> 03:28:01,320
Speaker 2: Hitler right now, like no, no, stack, yeah.

3842
03:28:01,240 --> 03:28:02,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, like we have it.

3843
03:28:02,680 --> 03:28:05,160
Speaker 26: You can trace online from like Bosquier Rodondo right where

3844
03:28:05,160 --> 03:28:06,520
Speaker 26: they sent the Navajo people.

3845
03:28:06,400 --> 03:28:08,640
Speaker 3: Right bass Rodando is a great thing to bring.

3846
03:28:08,760 --> 03:28:11,200
Speaker 26: Yeah, yes, And you can trace a direct line from

3847
03:28:11,240 --> 03:28:13,160
Speaker 26: that to the outdoor detention camps we saw in twenty

3848
03:28:13,240 --> 03:28:15,360
Speaker 26: twenty three where people were forced to remain in one

3849
03:28:15,440 --> 03:28:18,480
Speaker 26: place without food, water, or shelter, and people died as

3850
03:28:18,520 --> 03:28:21,920
Speaker 26: a result of that last year two years ago, and

3851
03:28:22,160 --> 03:28:24,400
Speaker 26: like that, from there to Guantanamo Bay, it is not

3852
03:28:24,520 --> 03:28:27,680
Speaker 26: a massive leap. And yeah, just being like we don't

3853
03:28:27,760 --> 03:28:31,560
Speaker 26: have Auschwitz, it's just asinine. Like if you if you

3854
03:28:31,640 --> 03:28:34,040
Speaker 26: can't acknowledge that America has a long history of doing this,

3855
03:28:34,240 --> 03:28:36,240
Speaker 26: and you know, really you need to examine your own

3856
03:28:36,440 --> 03:28:39,360
Speaker 26: preconceptions before like speaking for others.

3857
03:28:40,920 --> 03:28:43,960
Speaker 13: Yep, all right, is that this episode for this week?

3858
03:28:44,000 --> 03:28:44,320
Speaker 4: Everyone?

3859
03:28:44,520 --> 03:28:46,320
Speaker 3: I think that's the episode. I think we're done.

3860
03:28:47,520 --> 03:28:49,160
Speaker 24: We reported the news.

3861
03:28:49,480 --> 03:28:54,560
Speaker 2: Yes, Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week.

3862
03:28:54,680 --> 03:28:56,520
Speaker 2: From now until the heat death of the universe.

3863
03:28:56,920 --> 03:28:59,040
Speaker 25: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone

3864
03:28:59,080 --> 03:29:02,120
Speaker 25: Media from More podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our

3865
03:29:02,160 --> 03:29:05,240
Speaker 25: website Coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the

3866
03:29:05,280 --> 03:29:09,200
Speaker 25: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

3867
03:29:09,680 --> 03:29:11,560
Speaker 25: You can now find sources for it could Happen Here

3868
03:29:11,640 --> 03:29:14,560
Speaker 25: listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.