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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the show Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Shout out to super producer Casey Pegram,

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Speaker 1: Shout out to our producers Andrew Howard and Max Williams,

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Speaker 1: and in a really weird way, I guess tangentially, shout

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Speaker 1: out to Napoleon. Yes, Napoleon, I'm betting Napole. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm no Napoleon. No, that's not worth it. I think

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Speaker 1: it was. It's always worth It's always worth it. Try.

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Speaker 1: You know what I always think of whenever we cover Napoleon.

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Speaker 1: I probably mentioned this before, is it Bill and Ted?

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Speaker 1: Because I always think about when he was eating ice

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Speaker 1: cream and trying to take other people's ice cream. That

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Speaker 1: sounds like something Napoleon would do. Now, there's a really

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Speaker 1: cool Phoenix song called Napoleon Says, and I don't understand

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Speaker 1: the reference, but it's Napoleon says, to take off your coat,

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Speaker 1: take off your long John's too. Napoleon says, to take

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Speaker 1: off your coat, take off your long John's too, writing

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Speaker 1: in a trench coat. I don't know what if that means.

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Speaker 1: I think that's why I love Phoenix because they're clearly,

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Speaker 1: you know, not English's first language speakers, but they write

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Speaker 1: all their song lyrics in English, and there's a fun,

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Speaker 1: charming kind of lost in Translation vibe, not only because

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Speaker 1: they were also on the Lost in Translations soundtrack, but

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Speaker 1: it just something that happens in the transition between French

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Speaker 1: to English that I find very charming. I think they

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Speaker 1: do it on purpose his people, and I love seeing

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Speaker 1: them live and uh and uh, you know, I'll admit

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Speaker 1: I was one of those kids who had some emo

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Speaker 1: moments to some Phoenix songs, and I greatly, I greatly

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Speaker 1: appreciate them, but I do wonder like sometimes when you

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Speaker 1: when you read the structure of the lyrics, you're thinking like,

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Speaker 1: did they just think, yeah, this will work. You and

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Speaker 1: I saw Phoenix together many years ago and then before

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Speaker 1: before times at the Shaking News Music Festival. Um, that

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Speaker 1: was a lot of fun and we're cheap folks, so

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Speaker 1: we went because it was free. It was free, free

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Speaker 1: that one time we got free festival tickets. But today's

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Speaker 1: episode no is this is funny because this relates. It's

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Speaker 1: weird how synchronous this became. This relates to a couple

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Speaker 1: of things they're near and dear to our hearts, and

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Speaker 1: that we've covered recently, not just in this show, but

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Speaker 1: in our other companion shows. Stuff they don't want you

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Speaker 1: to know. We did a whole episode about the Jersey Devil.

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Speaker 1: No spoilers, but we we had we figured out a

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Speaker 1: pretty likely explanation for this cryptod and then we also

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Speaker 1: we had this throwaway fact in that show where like

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Speaker 1: a lot of people saw the Jersey Devil, one of

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Speaker 1: them was related to Napoleon Bonaparte, and it was one

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Speaker 1: of those things like if you listen to that episode,

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Speaker 1: which I think we didn't, Okay job on, we sort

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Speaker 1: of like threw that fact out there, like there we go,

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Speaker 1: and then we just never never talked about it again

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Speaker 1: because we had a bunch of stuff to do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's true, And in this episode, I mean, this isn't

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Speaker 1: about the Jersey Devil, but we're gonna get to that

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Speaker 1: section of Joseph Napoleon's life when he immigrated to the

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Speaker 1: United States um after serving as sort of a you know,

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Speaker 1: reluctant king under his brother's reign, because you know, you

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Speaker 1: can't be Napoleon's brother and not get some kind of

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Speaker 1: like juicy post, you know, as a result. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: the thing we're talking about. Napoleon's older brother, Joseph, and

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Speaker 1: he's uh, He's been described by historians as personality wise,

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Speaker 1: almost the polar opposite of his buddy Napoleon. Joseph is

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Speaker 1: like an idealist. He's mild mannered, and he's quote lacking

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Speaker 1: in vigor. He's what a former president would have called

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Speaker 1: low energy old low energy yosef. Yes, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I'm standing enough. It's yo step for now. I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna do it because it seems like, you know,

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Speaker 1: when French people have names that you would pronounce one

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Speaker 1: way in English, they are usually pronounced differently, like uh again,

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Speaker 1: singer of Phoenix. Look at it on paper, it's Thomas,

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Speaker 1: but he goes by Tomah. Yeah, well that's a good point.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna stick with. You know what, I'll alternate between

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Speaker 1: the My arbitrary defense of that decision is going to

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Speaker 1: be that he did immigrate to the States. Said there

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Speaker 1: we go. Yeah, he was like, it's funny because no

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Speaker 1: matter how intimately aware of Napoleon's reign and rise to

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Speaker 1: power as you might be, author auns are a little

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Speaker 1: bit lower that you would have heard too too much

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Speaker 1: about Joseph. He was a quietude. He liked literature, Gartney

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Speaker 1: and uh and I love this Rason. He liked entertaining.

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Speaker 1: I love when people say entertaining. It's such a vague

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Speaker 1: thing as a verb. Like if you see those house

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Speaker 1: hunter things and someone's like, my name is Marlon and

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Speaker 1: I own I own a vantage toenail clipper shop, And

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Speaker 1: then someone's like, yes, and my name is Sandy. I

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Speaker 1: admire otters from Afar are bunchet is ten million dollars.

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Speaker 1: And whenever they go through a living room, you know

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Speaker 1: they're getting shown around the house. They have to have

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Speaker 1: problems because it's house hunters. They're like, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if this is big enough. We love to entertain, or

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Speaker 1: another another another way you see influencer types talk about

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Speaker 1: that as their primary occupation is entertaining, you know, or hosting.

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Speaker 1: I love to host you know. Basically means you have

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Speaker 1: a fancy house and spend lots of money on fancy

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Speaker 1: parties that you can then post videos about your fancy

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Speaker 1: parties and your fancy friends. Uh no, shade, it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's a way of living. Um, but it is kind

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Speaker 1: of funny when your whole reason for existing is to

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Speaker 1: kind of flex on the internet, just sort of kind

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Speaker 1: of what being an influencers influencers out there, correct me

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Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, Ben, I think I have a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a clue as to how you might pronounce

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Speaker 1: uh the J word as in our our heroes name,

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Speaker 1: because I was like, no, my house Hunter joke was solid. No,

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Speaker 1: it's super solid um. And did I not laugh? I'm no, no,

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Speaker 1: We'll put We'll fix it in post. We fix it.

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Speaker 1: I laughed inside my heart laughed and smiled at the

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Speaker 1: same time. She's very difficult to do for a heart,

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Speaker 1: since it doesn't have a mouth, is it. Well, I

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Speaker 1: just know that he was born Giuseppe Bonaparte, so I'm

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Speaker 1: guessing that that Joseph might have been the americanization of Giuseppe.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna flip it. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go back to Joseph, all right. Well, and then you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe his his close friends called him Giuseppe, and he

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Speaker 1: was like, only you can do that, you and my

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Speaker 1: little brother. So it's it's funny because it seems like,

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Speaker 1: if we look at it, it seems like he would

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Speaker 1: have been happy just living sort of a life of leisure. Right.

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Speaker 1: He was born again Giuseppi Buenaparte and Courte Corsica on

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Speaker 1: January seven, seventeen sixty eight, and he was the oldest

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Speaker 1: sibling of Charles and Letizia Bonaparte's eight children, one of which,

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Speaker 1: of course, was their second child, Napoleon, or as his

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Speaker 1: buddies called him, Naps nap Nappy, the original Napster, little Nappy.

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Speaker 1: No nobody called him that, um, and that wasn't funny.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate the the lath though, Ben, and I will

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Speaker 1: return the favor. When you make a joke that doesn't

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Speaker 1: land at some point later in our career, it's bound

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Speaker 1: to happen. Then you're usually you're you're batting averages high.

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Speaker 1: But you never know, you never know. But he and

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Speaker 1: Joseph were tight, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Gusepi and the

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Speaker 1: Napster were a dynamic duo for sure, because they grew

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Speaker 1: up together. They spent their early childhood together, and then

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Speaker 1: they left Corsica in seventeen seventy eight to go to

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Speaker 1: school and they traveled together. Josep have had been This

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Speaker 1: happened in a lot of families. He had been like

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Speaker 1: singled out as the kid who had to be a priest,

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Speaker 1: so he started study. Always gotta be one, I guess, yeah, often,

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Speaker 1: so he started classical studies at one college and Napoleon

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Speaker 1: went to a military school in another city. M and

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Speaker 1: Joseph didn't want to be a priest. Imagine that. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I imagine that happens quite a lot too, where like,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the pecking order you got your military leader,

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Speaker 1: maybe there's one that gets to be a doctor, or

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Speaker 1: like maybe there's one that's like the black sheep, who like,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna accept the fact that you're going to be

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Speaker 1: a sculptor or something. And then you know, maybe he

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Speaker 1: just seemed like the most pious. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: makes you suited in the eyes of your folks to

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Speaker 1: be a priest, but they obviously saw the lord in him,

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Speaker 1: but he didn't see it in himself. He wanted to

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Speaker 1: join his bro and be a militaryman. Yeah exactly. I

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Speaker 1: mean it feels like, you know, there's always you and

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Speaker 1: I are both only children, so I always imagine there's

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Speaker 1: a little bit of like sibling rivalry. You don't want

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Speaker 1: your siblings to get like the cool stuff and you

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Speaker 1: get stuck with the Nazi cool stuff. So maybe he felt,

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Speaker 1: you know, a version of that, like why does why

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Speaker 1: does my little brother get to go off on adventures

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Speaker 1: and I have to be a priest? But that's the thing.

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Speaker 1: A deathbed promise came into play. Charles Bonaparte was dying,

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Speaker 1: he was ailing, it was not long for the world,

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Speaker 1: and he made his son Joseph, promise to give up

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Speaker 1: any remote, any sliver of a thought or ambition of

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Speaker 1: following a military career, and he said, instead, you need

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Speaker 1: to return to Corsica and to vote yourself to the family.

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Speaker 1: And then when the elder Buonaparte passed away in that's

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Speaker 1: when Joseph becomes head of the whole operation. He looks

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Speaker 1: after the farm, the vineyard, he helps his mom support

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Speaker 1: his younger siblings, and then he's still is able to

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Speaker 1: continue education, so in seventeen goes to University of Pisa

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Speaker 1: and and a year later he has a law degree.

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Speaker 1: So he decided to know he's not a priest at all.

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Speaker 1: He decided to follow the law instead of the lord,

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Speaker 1: and he then got a job in the French Corsican

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Speaker 1: judicial system, and he and his brother continued to kind of,

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Speaker 1: you know, be there wasn't. I didn't get a real

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Speaker 1: sense of sibling rivalry here, which is interesting when you

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Speaker 1: consider the heights to which Napoleon rose. Uh, Joseph seemed

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Speaker 1: fine with that all throughout this story. I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to lead with that a little bit because he seemed

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Speaker 1: like a pretty reasonable guy, and as we get into

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Speaker 1: his time in America, that reasonable side really shines through. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's true. So because he can he has a law degree,

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Speaker 1: he gets a job right working in the judicial system,

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Speaker 1: and he and his brother do work together, as he said,

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Speaker 1: and they want to advance the French revolutionary cause in Corsica.

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Speaker 1: But then they get into a conflict with the leader

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Speaker 1: of the Corsican nationalist Pascual Paully, and that happened, so

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Speaker 1: they high tail it to France and now things take

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Speaker 1: this change. Life has takes us some crazy directions, and

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Speaker 1: a family friend helps Joseph get a job as a

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Speaker 1: commissary of the army in the south of France, so

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Speaker 1: he actually does kind of work with the military etymology

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Speaker 1: question for you, Ben know, this is a pet project

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Speaker 1: of yours. Commissary is a position in the military like that.

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Speaker 1: But it's also like what they call like the canteen

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Speaker 1: where you eat your food. Any idea why that is?

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Speaker 1: Those things that related? Yeah, kind of. So it's been

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Speaker 1: around since thirteen sixty two in English, and it meant

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Speaker 1: one to whom special duty is entrusted by a higher power.

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Speaker 1: So technically, you know, if you want to mess with

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Speaker 1: your kids, if you have kids, then when you're on

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Speaker 1: a road trip or something, make one of them. Like

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Speaker 1: you are the commissary of of the ox cord, you

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Speaker 1: get to decide the music, but be careful because you

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Speaker 1: can always be overthrown if I don't like baby Shark.

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Speaker 1: Who doesn't like Baby Shark? I don't know. Man. If

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Speaker 1: you it's an alright song in small doses, maybe that's

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Speaker 1: the problem. Maybe it's too much of an ear worm.

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Speaker 1: But I think you were able to get to avoid

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Speaker 1: the baby Shark thing, right. It came out after your

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Speaker 1: daughter's word. For her, it was more of a meme

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Speaker 1: then something that she was actually into. And she's also

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Speaker 1: got a baby siss so her her baby sister was

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Speaker 1: a big fan. And there's actually there's actually this funny

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Speaker 1: toy that you can get. It's like a baby shark

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Speaker 1: that sings the song, but it sings it depending on

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Speaker 1: how fast you pump its mouth. That's not a weird.

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Speaker 1: What I mean is it's like a hand puppet and

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Speaker 1: you move its mouth, and as you move it, it

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Speaker 1: changes the speed of it. So if you move it

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Speaker 1: really slow, it's like baby, dude. It sounds like a

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Speaker 1: like a battery dying and a doll or something. You know. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So commissary comes from Latin, and then it eventually evolves

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Speaker 1: to person in charge. But as far as when it

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Speaker 1: became specifically related to food and the storage of food,

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Speaker 1: and that may be a story for another day. But

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Speaker 1: he's in there right, he's he's in the military now,

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Speaker 1: he's not a priest. And while he stayed in Marseilles,

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Speaker 1: he meets a daughter of a wealthy merchant. Her name

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Speaker 1: is Marie Julie Clarey. And it's funny because there's a

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Speaker 1: great article from Shannon Sellen dot com that's pretty blunt

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Speaker 1: and I think a little bit. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: they're trying to be mean, but they say Julie was

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Speaker 1: not physically attractive, but she was intelligent and she basically

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Speaker 1: had a great personality and Joseph's mom liked her and

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Speaker 1: also thought she would be a good match financially for

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Speaker 1: a son. So they got married on August one, seventeen four.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it always the merchant's daughter, you know, as that

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Speaker 1: seems like such a trope, you know, married the merchant's

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Speaker 1: daughter because he had to curry favor with the merchant.

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Speaker 1: They're always a very stern and want the best for

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Speaker 1: their daughter. Uh. It is pretty funny that shady Shannon

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Speaker 1: uh sell an article that kind of negs this particular

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Speaker 1: merchant's daughter. But it's true. They get married on August first,

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Speaker 1: seventeen ninety four, and that's when Napoleon began to really,

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Speaker 1: you know, do well for himself. But so did Joseph

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Speaker 1: in his own way. Yeah. Yeah, they were for a while.

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Speaker 1: They were in kind of like a rising tide carries

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Speaker 1: all vessels situations. I believe he went with Napoleon on

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Speaker 1: the Italian campaign, and then in seventeen ninety seven he

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Speaker 1: was elected as a Corsican deputy to the Council of

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Speaker 1: five hundred. The Council of five hundred, as a lower

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Speaker 1: house legislative body established by the French Constitution, is seventeen

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Speaker 1: ninety five. It is called that because they have five

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Speaker 1: hundred delegates and they were charged with initiating legislation for

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Speaker 1: the upper House. The Council of Ancients would accept or

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Speaker 1: reject the laws they worked on. So picture a little

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Speaker 1: bit like a house of representatives. Almost. This is great

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Speaker 1: for business. Eventually he becomes the French ambassador to the

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Speaker 1: Court of Parma, and then he becomes the ambassador to Rome.

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Speaker 1: And now he is wealthy. He is balling. He is

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Speaker 1: not worried about money, Noel, he is It's good to

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Speaker 1: be Napoleon's brother at this moment in time, exactly. He's

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Speaker 1: he I love this brotherly love situation. You know, like

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Speaker 1: you're used to seeing so much backstabbing and kind of backbiting,

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Speaker 1: all the back things between brothers as they rise to prominence.

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Speaker 1: But he seemed perfectly content to seeing his brother achieve

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Speaker 1: all of this success because you know, frankly, if he

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Speaker 1: didn't have ambitions to be like the top dog, he

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Speaker 1: certainly was benefiting from all this right because he was

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Speaker 1: also becoming incredibly wealthy. He bought a town house on

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Speaker 1: the Rue de Roche in Paris. Super producer Casey Pegram

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Speaker 1: would be ashamed of my French pronunciation. But doing the

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Speaker 1: best I can both, I know, I know, we we

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Speaker 1: always try. He also bought a chateau. Well, what makes

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Speaker 1: the chateau is chateau? It is this just a style

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Speaker 1: of house that must be And that little upside down

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Speaker 1: little symbol over the a, it's a it's like a

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Speaker 1: large country house. It's in a state, right, It's exactly.

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Speaker 1: It's it's basically like a vacation home. And he bought

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Speaker 1: a lot of lands too. And I'm gonna do my

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Speaker 1: best here. Let's see. Uh Morte Fontaine. Oh god, that

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Speaker 1: was bad. Um, I get the gist of it. Let's

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Speaker 1: just call it. I'm just gonna pronounce it like a

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Speaker 1: terrible American Morte Fontaine. Um. And that was nineteen miles

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Speaker 1: north of the city and Bonus nachos to bonus bonus

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Speaker 1: party nachos there it is at two. Joseph and Julie

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Speaker 1: had two daughters. They did have a third one, but

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Speaker 1: unfortunately she passed away shortly after birth. And their daughters

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Speaker 1: were zen Ed who was born in July one, and Charlotte,

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Speaker 1: who was known as La Lot La Lot. I guess

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Speaker 1: that's just removing the shar Oh that's sweet. Yeah, kind of,

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Speaker 1: it's adding an extra low um, but yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think they were creative with their nicknames, those French

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Speaker 1: and she was born on October one of eighteen o two,

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Speaker 1: and Joseph began to really build out his assets, doing

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Speaker 1: massive improvements on his estate houses. And he really did

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Speaker 1: enjoy that that sweet, sweet country living. But he was

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Speaker 1: also something of a gentleman, of course, and enjoyed the

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Speaker 1: finer things in life, but also was strangely a simple man.

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Speaker 1: It's it's interesting, weird dichotomy with this guy, right, And

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Speaker 1: he was described thus late by one of his biographers,

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Speaker 1: early twentieth century biographer. He had an element of laziness

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Speaker 1: in his character, disposition to rest and quietly enjoy the

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Speaker 1: good things he possessed in a dignified way. So he

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Speaker 1: was lazy and dignified. In the debates of the five hundred,

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Speaker 1: which is that Council of five hundred we talked about,

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Speaker 1: where he was a deputy, he took little part, and

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Speaker 1: at the end of the term of membership he did

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Speaker 1: not seek reelection. Yeah, that's the thing. He seemed like

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Speaker 1: he was absolutely fine to just chill just enjoy a

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Speaker 1: life of relaxation and uh have have some stress free days.

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Speaker 1: Napoleon had other plans. Napoleon very much felt that his

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Speaker 1: brother needed to do more to help support the Bonaparte cause,

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Speaker 1: so he said, look, initially, I'm gonna use you as

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Speaker 1: a diplomat, not necessarily because you're a great diplomat, but

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Speaker 1: because I know you older brother, and you're easier to

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Speaker 1: control because we go back. So I would also say

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Speaker 1: there's an element of trust there too, and Joseph wasn't

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Speaker 1: super happy with this. The friction between the two men

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Speaker 1: rose as Napoleon first became consul for life in eighteen

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Speaker 1: o two and then just two years later emperor in

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Speaker 1: eighteen o four. They clashed over who should be the successor,

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Speaker 1: because Napoleon at that time to not have children, and

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Speaker 1: Joseph said, this is weird because it doesn't make a

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Speaker 1: lot of sense for his character. Joseph said, look, I'm

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Speaker 1: your older brother. You need to recognize me as your heir,

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Speaker 1: and Napoleon wanted to recognize the oldest son of the

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Speaker 1: one of their other siblings, their younger brother Louis, and

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Speaker 1: so Napoleon started kind of trying to barter with his

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Speaker 1: elder brother, and he was like, look, Joe, well and

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Speaker 1: just I'll make you king of something if you just

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Speaker 1: give up all claims to the French throne. I'll make

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Speaker 1: you king of Lombardy. How about the Oh yeah, it's weird, Ben,

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Speaker 1: You're right about that. That's being seeming out of character

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Speaker 1: for the way his story AND's kind of described this

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Speaker 1: guy as like being content to like do his thing

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Speaker 1: out of the public eye, right, But he clearly had

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Speaker 1: some ambition, But I think maybe it was more he

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Speaker 1: liked the money side of it, so he wanted to,

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Speaker 1: you know, have that claim so he would inherit all

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Speaker 1: of that wealth rather than like be the top dog, right,

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Speaker 1: or he cared much about governing, because again we know

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Speaker 1: with his career on the Council the five hundred, he

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Speaker 1: didn't really care much about politics and he sort of

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Speaker 1: phoned it in, right. So in eighteen o six, Napoleon

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Speaker 1: sent Joseph to kick out the dynasty that was in

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Speaker 1: control of Naples, the Bourbon dynasty, and he became king.

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Speaker 1: And Joseph was not super into the idea, as we said,

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Speaker 1: nor was his wife. But in eighteen o eight, when

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Speaker 1: Napoleon invaded Spain. He succeeded and offered Joseph the Spanish

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Speaker 1: throne then after his other brother Louis refused it, but

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Speaker 1: he more specifically told Joseph to give up the throne

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Speaker 1: of Naples and give it to their sister Caroline and

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Speaker 1: her husband Joachim Mura, and then go to Spain where

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Speaker 1: he would take up his throne there. He was not

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Speaker 1: into the idea, but he ultimately gave in and did

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Speaker 1: what his brother asked. I mean, you know, when Napoleon

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Speaker 1: asked me to do something, brother or not, You've got

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Speaker 1: to give it some serious thought because you don't want

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Speaker 1: to make an enemy of him, and as we know

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Speaker 1: in history, brother or no, you can still become blood enemies. True,

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Speaker 1: the forces that were best suited to tangle with Napoleon

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Speaker 1: were things like Winter and Russia or rabbits, which is

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Speaker 1: the true story. It's an earlier episode of Hours. Check

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Speaker 1: it out. Napoleon did get punked by a horde of rabbits. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is a tough This is not great real estate

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Speaker 1: for French royalty because the Spanish had some stereotypes the

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Speaker 1: French at the time. No, they were like the French

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Speaker 1: are all atheists and their foreigners. They don't deserve a break.

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Speaker 1: We don't cut them slack. We don't give them a break,

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Speaker 1: We give them no mercy. And they had a nickname

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Speaker 1: for Joseph pepe Botteias Joe Bottles, because apparently he really

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Speaker 1: really liked the sauce that was the propaganda, but in

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Speaker 1: fact he was he was kind of a light drinker,

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Speaker 1: sort of like that propaganda about Napoleon being really short.

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Speaker 1: It's somewhat of a smear campaign. They also had no

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Speaker 1: problem hacking French soldiers to pieces. Joseph tries to make

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Speaker 1: peace by having a lot of pretty moderate policies at

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Speaker 1: the time, often in contradiction of Napoleon's orders from Paris.

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Speaker 1: Napoleon divided Spain into six military districts. He allowed his

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Speaker 1: marshals of those districts too. Eggs are pretty pretty independent

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Speaker 1: authority over the parts of the country they can try rold.

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Speaker 1: And then that undermined his brother's rule from the Spanish throne.

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Speaker 1: So Joseph asked, Napoleon is so funny. Joseph as Napoleon like, hey,

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Speaker 1: can I quit this job? Stinks? And uh, Napoleon responds.

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Speaker 1: In eighteen twelve, by making Joseph commander in chief of

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Speaker 1: all the French forces left in Spain. So congratulations, your

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Speaker 1: face is on the most unpopular thing in the country

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Speaker 1: right now, asked me, I made you king, I've made

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Speaker 1: you think the nerve God the absolute goal of it all.

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Speaker 1: It's true. So on June one, eighteen thirteen, Joseph decided

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Speaker 1: to pick a fight with the Duke of Wellington Um

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Speaker 1: and a battle ensued at Victoria and the French lost,

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Speaker 1: but that didn't stop Joseph entirely. He headed out for

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Speaker 1: the frontier. So then, after you know, galloping across the frontiers, presumably,

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Speaker 1: Joseph returned to his estate at Morte Fontaine, and then

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Speaker 1: Napoleon decided that Ferdinand the Seventh, the Bourbon you will

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Speaker 1: call dynasty family member who he had had kicked off

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Speaker 1: of the throne to install Joseph, should return as the

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Speaker 1: king of Spain, and that they should start to you know,

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Speaker 1: make nice between the two countries, to help create the

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Speaker 1: groundwork for a marriage of convenience between Ferdinand and Joseph's

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Speaker 1: daughter zend who was only thirteen at the time. So

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Speaker 1: maybe because of that, I know, weird things that happened,

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Speaker 1: but he had his reasons. Surely Joseph did not like

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Speaker 1: this idea at all, but was pressured, as he seems

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Speaker 1: to have been kind of consistently throughout this story, and

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Speaker 1: decided to give him. Yeah, yeah, he he acquiesced and

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Speaker 1: agreed for the Spanish crown to be transferred to the

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Speaker 1: House of Bourbon. With what important caveat, I still get

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Speaker 1: to be called King Joseph, That's what he said. He

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Speaker 1: never formally advocated, and luckily the thirteen year old was

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Speaker 1: spared having to have that child marriage for political purposes.

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Speaker 1: Fast forward spoiler alert. If you're listening to today's show,

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Speaker 1: you probably already know what happened to Napoleon. He was defeated,

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Speaker 1: he was forced into exile. Joseph found himself with a

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Speaker 1: very unfortunate last name, so he fled. He high tailed

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Speaker 1: it across the Atlantic to the United States under an

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Speaker 1: assumed name. And get the hutzpah on this guy. Know

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Speaker 1: he stole the crown jewels with Spain. Well, he probably

424
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 1: didn't think he was stealing. He thought they were his,

425
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: but he put them in a suitcase literally and took

426
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 1: them with him to the States as he sailed aboard

427
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 1: an American break named the Commerce. It was twice inspected

428
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,159
Speaker 1: by the British, but his false papers they worked. He

429
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: was able to get through on forced papers. He left

430
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: his wife and his daughters in pair Us. They moved

431
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: to Frankfurt and then later to Brussels. Of course, what

432
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: do you do first time, if this is a movie

433
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: and you're traveling to the US for the first time,

434
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: You go to New York, Right, New York, New York.

435
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: That's you know, where so many immigrants to the United States,

436
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: you know, found their kind of gateway into this New

437
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,440
Speaker 1: World type situation. So he went to New York sort

438
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 1: of in shame a little bit, but once he got

439
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: there he kind of realized he liked it. He spent

440
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 1: a little time in New York and then moved to Philadelphia,

441
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: where he took up residence at two sixties South ninth Street,

442
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: Um which became a very important hub for this huge

443
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 1: influx of French expats coming into Philly. And he then

444
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: you know, settled in a larger estate house in Bordentown,

445
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 1: New Jersey, which was just twenty five miles northeast of

446
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: Philly on the Delaware River. He called his estate Point

447
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 1: Breeze Point Breeze sounds like an eighties film, or sounds

448
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: like a suburban community, right. I bought a time share

449
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: in Point Breeze, So he's in suburban exile. He's quiet,

450
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 1: but he likes He got used to the good life.

451
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 1: That's the thing. He may have still been dethroned, but

452
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: he considered himself royalty, so he built a home worthy

453
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 1: of MTVS cribs. His vast mansion had a ginormous wine cellar,

454
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: Florida celi mirrors, super fancy crystal chandelier's, marble fireplaces, grand staircases,

455
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: you name it. Fun fact, with eight thousand books. His

456
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: library held the largest collection of Tom's in the country

457
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 1: at the time. The Library of Congress only had sixty hundred.

458
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 1: So he was like bawling, Yeah, he was Tom rich Ben.

459
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: I know I've been doing this a lot in this episode,

460
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 1: But what's the difference between a tome and a book?

461
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 1: Tom's got to be a little longer write a book.

462
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: It's you got your pamphlet, you got your book, and

463
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: then you got your tomb. I don't know. Tome is

464
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: usually considered a very heavy book, and there's a little

465
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 1: bit of a a connotation of academic or stilarship to right, Yeah,

466
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: unless you get into making it a little bit witchy,

467
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 1: and then it becomes a grimoire. There we are, but

468
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 1: all you know, maybe all grim noise are not tombed,

469
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:28,920
Speaker 1: all tombs are not grim noise. But all grim noise

470
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: or tombs, what do you think? I think that's pretty cool.

471
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: It just depends on the length of a grimoire. If

472
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: you're into a grim wise, then I would I would

473
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 1: hope you get a tome. You know, it gets some

474
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: more occults bang for your buck. But you're right, yeah,

475
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: and you have to wonder what kind of books were

476
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: in there. If you were to go to the mansion

477
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: and meet Joseph at this time, you would walk through

478
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: an elaborate landscape, ten miles of carriage paths, rare non

479
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: native trees and plants, gauzebos, gardens, even an artificial lake

480
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: stocked with imported European swans. This guy is not hurting

481
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: money and to entertain. He does love to entertain. It

482
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: reminds me of like another call back to an early

483
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: episode The Menagerie's of what's his name? Pablo Escobar and

484
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: the Hippos. The hippos, Yeah, Yeah, it's got that kind

485
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: of vibe to it. I don't know, maybe a little

486
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: more idyllic and a little less like Safari Park. Less cocaine,

487
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: probably too, Probably less cocaine, I would imagine. But thanks

488
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: to mental Floss, as always, for a great rundown of

489
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: this very interesting man's life. We're about to get to

490
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: the super fun part. But his home became this real

491
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: kind of home base for a lot of his rich

492
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: neighbors who would just come and hang and look through

493
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: his vast collection of toms. And these were elites, obviously,

494
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 1: very wealthy folks from Europe and America, and he would

495
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: entertain dignitaries, folks like John Quincy Adams would come visit,

496
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: Point Breese, Daniel Webster, the Marquis de Lafayette of Hamilton's

497
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: the musical fame, Stephen Girard, who was a well known

498
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: French banker from Philadelphia and was also apparently at the time,

499
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: um the richest man in the United States. Nice hanging

500
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: out at the biggest library. That's that's a That's a

501
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: great collaboration of superlatives, isn't it. So there were rumors

502
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,959
Speaker 1: swirling around that Joseph may have been involved in several

503
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: plots to rescue Napoleon from exile, but nothing, none of

504
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: the charges ever stuck. He was also staying clear of

505
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: other high level intrigues, like the invasion of Texas by

506
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: Charles Lalemant. It's weird because Joseph's nephew, Louis Napoleon says

507
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: that Joseph was offered the Mexican crown by a group

508
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: of Mexican revolutionaries and he turned them down, saying, I've

509
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 1: worn two crowns. I would not take a step to

510
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: where a third. Nothing can gratify me more than to

511
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: see men who would not recognized my authority when I

512
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: was at Madrid now come to seek me in exile.

513
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,239
Speaker 1: That I may be at their head. But I do

514
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: not think that the throne you wish to raise again

515
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: can make your happiness. O o oh. And then the

516
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 1: next part of this quote, bend really speaks to We

517
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: talked about at the top of the show how much

518
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: he loved the United States and our system of governments. Uh,

519
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: you know, as imperfect as it might be, certainly to him,

520
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: better than what he had experienced in Europe. Yeah, that's

521
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: you know what, that's a really good point because the

522
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: last part of the quity. He says, every day that

523
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: I passed in the hospitable land of the United States

524
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: proves more clearly to me the excellence of Republican institutions

525
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: for America. Keep them then as a precious gift from heaven.

526
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: So maybe his maybe his house parties had like started

527
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: to sway his thinking, because he definitely was a reluctant

528
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: king from the jump, right. That's why it's I feel

529
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: like it was really in character for him, you know,

530
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: and it made sense that he would be super comfortable obviously.

531
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: I mean, he's comfortable. He's living in the lap of

532
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: luxury and isn't in danger of being like executed, you know,

533
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: for like war crimes or whatever, you know, at the

534
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: very least for being an enemy combatant. Um. But yeah,

535
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: his wife though, didn't come with him to the States.

536
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: He didn't see her for twenty five years. Yeah, talking

537
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: about a long distance relationship. You know who he did

538
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: see though years I can imagine, ye, that's right, his mistress,

539
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: Annette Savage. Uh. He met her when she was eighteen

540
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: years old. She was, you know, according to the pattern

541
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 1: he was established. He was the daughter of some distinguished merchants.

542
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 1: He ran into her while he was shopping for suspenders.

543
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: She spoke French match made in Heaven. He was kind

544
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,719
Speaker 1: of known to be a philanthroper, and his wife, Julie,

545
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: was aware of this and tolerated his affairs. He had

546
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: two children with Annette Savage, and then when one of

547
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: them was killed or died tragically in the garden at

548
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: a young age, Joseph later dispatched his mistress to Paris

549
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: and paid her explicitly to never publish her memoirs. M Okay,

550
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: sort of like an n D. A kind of situation,

551
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: you know what, Yeah, I think you're right. I think

552
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: it was, yeah, or maybe even like part of a

553
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: pre nup. But they weren't married, though, were they. You

554
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: can't really can't can't be married if you're already married. Yeah, yeah,

555
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: so it was harder and it would have been harder

556
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: to track that though back then, probably right, Oh surely, yeah,

557
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: I think so, it would be harder. I mean, and

558
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,480
Speaker 1: how do bigive of laws work at that time on

559
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: an international scale. But still wasn't a good look. You know,

560
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 1: a lot of locals were scandalized. So then another tragedy

561
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: strikes January twenty. His mansion, which we earlier established is

562
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: pretty dope, catches on fire. It burns to the ground.

563
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 1: His neighbors are able to help save some stuff, including

564
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: his art collection. Newspapers of the day called the fire accidental,

565
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,320
Speaker 1: but there was gossip. There was a very weird rumor

566
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 1: going around, and they said that the fire was actually

567
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: the result of arson because there was a local Russian

568
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: immigrant who burned down his house because Napoleon invaded Russia.

569
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: And like we said, this was the second of a

570
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: pair of tragedies. Um you'd mentioned Ben that his daughter

571
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: Pauline was killed, and I just want to mention this

572
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: because it was a new word that I learned, and

573
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: I love sharing new words. She was killed by a

574
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: falling ornamental vase which had to have been very very

575
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 1: very large and probably with poured concrete or some other

576
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: heavy material. But it's called a jar Jordonnier, which what

577
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: you can picture those like a giant planter that you

578
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 1: would see on the grounds of an estate, like so

579
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 1: big you could plant like a small tree in one

580
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: of them. Bad way to go. Yeah, an errant Jordonnier.

581
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: How does that even happen? Maybe it wasn't loaded down

582
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 1: with something and she pushed to too. I don't know, um,

583
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 1: but yeah, So despite those two tragedies, he was kind

584
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: of unperturbed. I'm sure he was bummed, but he decided

585
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: to take his neighbors up on their offers to help

586
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,839
Speaker 1: him because they loved him right, and you know, because

587
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: it made sense. He was such a good host, such

588
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: a good entertainer, and was very welcoming and open with

589
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: his home and his beautiful library and all his homes.

590
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,399
Speaker 1: So they were just really kind of kind to him

591
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: and gave him solace. And he actually was so touched

592
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: by it that he wrote down his feelings on the

593
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: subject in a letter that he wrote to one of

594
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: the town's magistrates, and it says, all the furnitures, statues, pictures, money, played, gold, jewels,

595
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 1: linen books and in short, I'm sorry only laughing because

596
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: it's just like he's listing, like all the things, uh,

597
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: And in short, everything that was not consumed has been

598
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: most scrupulously delivered into the hands of the people of

599
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: my house in the night of the fire, and during

600
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,919
Speaker 1: the next day they were brought to me by laboring men.

601
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 1: Drawers in which I have found the proper quantity of

602
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: pieces of money and medals of gold and valuable jewels

603
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,400
Speaker 1: which might have been taken with impunity. So just to unpack,

604
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: I mean, he's basically saying that, like all of these neighbors,

605
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: whatever their class and their staff, they could have looted

606
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: the wreckage of his estate, but instead they like gathered

607
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,520
Speaker 1: up all this stuff from the wreckage for him and

608
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: returned them to which to me, it just speaks to

609
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: his character, doesn't it. I mean, they would if they

610
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: were just kind of sponging off of him, then you know,

611
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: they would think I would think that someone doing that

612
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: would see a giant fire, like it's like, oh well

613
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,959
Speaker 1: the party's over, better get whatever we can and fist

614
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: folds and move on. But instead they obviously cared about

615
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 1: the man and not just the stuff. Yeah, and this

616
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: really got to him, and he said something towards the

617
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: end where he said that really hits home. He says,

618
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: this event has proved to me how much the inhabitants

619
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,879
Speaker 1: of Bordin Town appreciate the interest I've always felt for them.

620
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 1: And uh, Max, when we get a little like kind

621
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:06,879
Speaker 1: of inspirational music, there we go and shows that men

622
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: in general are good when they have not been perverted

623
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: in their youth by bad education. Americans are, without contradiction,

624
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: the most happy people I have no still more happy

625
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: if they understand well their own happiness. I pray you

626
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: not to doubt my sincere regard. And then he signs

627
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: it Joseph, Count of Servis. I don't know that superlative, Ben,

628
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: do you. I did not before this episode, but I

629
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: believe it's a commune in Northern France. Community in northern France. Yeah,

630
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: that's one that didn't even come across our radar in

631
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: the in the early research for this. But I mean,

632
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 1: I'm surely a guy like that, he probably could have

633
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: rattled off, you know. I mean, when people like that,

634
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: they always have several titles. That was probably one of many.

635
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: But this was printed in Bonapartes Park and the Moras

636
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:03,240
Speaker 1: by Evan Morrison would word from eighteen seventy nine historical account.

637
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: And he rebuilt his mansion, and he stayed in New Jersey,

638
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: and apparently it was bigger and better than ever. That's right, yes, bigger,

639
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: better than ever. He went back to business as usual, entertaining,

640
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: please come and see my art gallery. And then uh,

641
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: he you know, he had lost a lot of stuff.

642
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:29,320
Speaker 1: But he became known as this font of European culture

643
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 1: and artistic knowledge in early America because you know, the

644
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 1: US had and to a degree still has a bit

645
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:39,720
Speaker 1: of a chip on its shoulder right about European culture

646
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,879
Speaker 1: being more sophisticated, being older, being fancier, etcetera. And so

647
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: he was for a lot of people a connection point there.

648
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 1: But with one one plots whist a little bit x files,

649
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,760
Speaker 1: I almost feel bad for spoiling it at the top,

650
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 1: but it is true. He is one of the people

651
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: who is absolutely convinced that he had run into the

652
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 1: Jersey Devil, as you know in our In our other episode,

653
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: we talked about the devil's origin story. According to led

654
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: Jean's born around seventeen thirty five. He's the thirteen child

655
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: of someone named mother Leads and she said some some

656
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: sideways stuff for the priest didn't bless the kid, and

657
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: the baby was born uh normally, but then morphed, at

658
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: least a one part of this story. Morphed and grew

659
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:38,399
Speaker 1: wings and hooves, fur and a tail, and then flew

660
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: out the window or up the chimney. And now we

661
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 1: have like and people of the area believed this story.

662
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 1: By the way, So what happened? What happened with Joseph Man. Yeah, well,

663
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,879
Speaker 1: so this is an area of New Jersey that fans

664
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: of The Sopranos will be intimately familiar with because it's

665
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:55,879
Speaker 1: one of the most beloved episodes of the show called

666
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 1: the Pine Barons, which I've never heard of until I

667
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: saw that show, But it is apparently a play that's

668
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 1: infamous because of its remoteness for hiding bodies, right, but

669
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: it's also a place it's very easy to get lost in,

670
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: as you will see if you watch this episode, Polly

671
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: Walnuts and Christopher Multa Senti do to great comedic effect.

672
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: It's a standalone episode, and if you haven't seen the show,

673
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: you can watch that episode having never seen the entire

674
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: show and it will delight you. It's all on its own,

675
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 1: but it's it's crazy. If you look at lower and

676
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: accounts of the Jersey Devil, it really kind of looks

677
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,919
Speaker 1: like a snaky necked camel horse eagle thing kind of

678
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: how would you describe the Jersey Devil? Then yeah, you

679
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: can see a great picture of it. It looks like

680
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 1: it looks awkward. It doesn't look flight worthy. Out of

681
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: balance right carmor t rex body. It's got these wings,

682
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,320
Speaker 1: let's got these hooves. It's got an awkward forward leaning

683
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 1: stance and very top heavy. Yeah, top heavy. And if

684
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 1: you look at the some of the original sketches, does

685
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 1: somebody Susan to come here? The glare and guys a

686
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: little bit of a roofball? And I dare I say

687
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 1: not only in Susian, but perhaps Susian, because it really

688
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: does look like the kind of like comical chimera, kind

689
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 1: of like you know, mishmash animal that you might see

690
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 1: in a Doctor's Seuss book. But Bonaparte claims to have

691
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: been hunting alone, as he often did in in this

692
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,839
Speaker 1: these woods near his country estate, when he saw some

693
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 1: really weird looking tracks that he attributed to maybe a

694
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: horse or a donkey. We know what those look like,

695
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: those kind of heart shaped tracks with like the little

696
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 1: notch at the top. But it appeared to because he

697
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: was schooled enough in tracking that he could tell kind

698
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 1: of where the weight would have been to make the

699
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 1: type of tracks that he was seeing, So he believed

700
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 1: that it was a creature that would have walked only

701
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: on its hime legs. Well, I mean, obviously there would

702
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: only be one set of tracks, right, which is weird.

703
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 1: That's not a thing that we know of tracks that

704
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,320
Speaker 1: look like that that only walk on two legs, or

705
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: animals that would make tracks like that they only walk

706
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 1: on two legs. And he decided, when he saw them

707
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: ending abruptly, that this animal must also be able to

708
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: fly or jumped, you know, great heights. So he followed

709
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: the tracks until they the trail went cold, and then

710
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: he was just fascinated and he was just looking at them.

711
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: And then he hears this sound from behind him. When

712
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,800
Speaker 1: he whips around, and what does he see. He sees

713
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: the devil. He sees this thing he had never witnessed

714
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 1: gazed upon before, with a long neck, wings, legs like

715
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:27,240
Speaker 1: a creating with horses hoofs at the end. He's stumpy,

716
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 1: little arms with paws, and a face that to him

717
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 1: looked like either a horse or a camel. He froze,

718
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: he panicked, and for a minute, neither heat nor the

719
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: creature moved, and the devil hissed, and according to the story,

720
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,480
Speaker 1: just flew away and nobody was harmed. It's funny. It

721
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 1: reminds me of camping. I don't know if I ever

722
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 1: meant told you this. One time when I was camping,

723
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: I ran into a brown bear from a distance. What yeah,

724
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: I was, I was younger. I was, well, we're all

725
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 1: friends here, I can say it. I walked over to

726
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 1: a creek and I was I was peeing in the creek,

727
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 1: I mean, the middle of nowhere, and I thought, oh,

728
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: this guy's like, no one's gonna see me. It's it's fine,

729
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. I'm this is how life is in

730
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: the woods. And while I am in the middle of this,

731
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: I see some movement, thankfully, on the other side of

732
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,959
Speaker 1: the creek, a little further down from me. I see

733
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: this shape. It's moving. I'm thinking, oh no, it's like

734
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 1: did one of the other boy scouts like come out

735
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: or whatever. And dude, it was a bear. And you know,

736
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,879
Speaker 1: you're not supposed to stop peeing once you start. So

737
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 1: I was just standing there kind of like peeing in

738
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 1: front of this bear and it was just looking at me.

739
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: It was one of the most awkward moments of my life,

740
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: you know, Like I was so shocked. I wasn't my

741
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: brain wasn't able to realize I should be scared, and

742
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: I was just like, this is very embarrassing, and then

743
00:43:54,960 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: I walked backwards, presumably with your business. Still I was

744
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: freaked out, and so I could I like, although, although

745
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 1: Joseph might sound silly right now, that's a real thing

746
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: that happens. You freeze up. It's freaky, it's scary. So

747
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: I have his back on that one. But here's the thing.

748
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: This is interesting. He was unaware of the legend of

749
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: the Jersey Devil. He just thought he solved weird American

750
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: animal you'd never seen before. And he told his friends,

751
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,879
Speaker 1: you know, like, I saw the honest thing, and then

752
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 1: they said, oh, yeah, we've heard about that. And from

753
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 1: that moment, for the rest of his life, whenever he

754
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: was walking around the woods, he was like I would

755
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: finding kids. It's jose devon jose Den. You know it's true,

756
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: and honestly gives it a little more credence that the

757
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: fact that he hadn't heard of the story, I think,

758
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: because you know, you if you hear the tale like that,

759
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,440
Speaker 1: it would just really feed into your imagination and potentially,

760
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 1: you know, your recollection of what you saw because you're like, oh,

761
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 1: I had to be this thing of of lore, you know.

762
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 1: But still, as there often is with things, like this,

763
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,399
Speaker 1: there's a pretty reasonable explanation as to what he might

764
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 1: have saw that would have been very alien to him.

765
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: And honestly, if everyone, which I think most of you do,

766
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: know my particular phobia, would have scared the ever loving

767
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,320
Speaker 1: hell out of me. And that was a great horned owl,

768
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 1: one of the most terrifying of all birds because it's neck,

769
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: you know, can spin around like the Exorcist. It just

770
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: has these deep, deep, deep, soul crushing eyes and a

771
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:38,839
Speaker 1: wingspan that can be like five feet wide. Uh. And

772
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 1: also they can grow up to ridiculously large sizes. There

773
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: are certain ones that have been known to get quite

774
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 1: quite large. Yeah, yeah, and if you see one of

775
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 1: these out in the wild and we're not familiar with

776
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:57,760
Speaker 1: the species, it's legitimately frightening. They also prey on snakes,

777
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: so that could account for that hissing noise Joseph heard.

778
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: Some of these bigger owls are also strong enough to

779
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,879
Speaker 1: pick up puppies and kittens, and they've got a very

780
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 1: characteristic screech that is blood curtly if you're not expecting it.

781
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 1: So that's his moment with the Jersey Devil. He became

782
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: a cryptid hunter, didn't we talk about a screech in

783
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 1: the Jersey Devil episode, and we traced it back to

784
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,919
Speaker 1: a crane. I believe right that that the particular type

785
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 1: of crane that also has a pretty other worldly screech,

786
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 1: especially if there's like a group of them, right. Yeah,

787
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 1: we had to We had to put ourselves back in

788
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 1: the in the perspective of people who lived at that time,

789
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: because it sounded silly when we played the clip, but

790
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: then we're like, no, imagine a hundred of them, So

791
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: that's cool. He had a lot of careers in his life,

792
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 1: King of Spain, Cryptic Hunter, Society Hub. He eventually went

793
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 1: back to England eighteen thirty six, spent about a year

794
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: there eighteen thirty seven, and then he comes back to

795
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: the US from one last visits days for a few years,

796
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 1: and then he goes back to England. He rents a

797
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:08,240
Speaker 1: house in Cavendish Square in London. In June of eighteen forty,

798
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 1: he has a stroke paralyzes the right side of his

799
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 1: body and so he moves back to Italy and this

800
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 1: is where he reunites with his wife Julie. That, as

801
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,760
Speaker 1: we said, he hadn't seen him more than two decades.

802
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,720
Speaker 1: As well as his brother. He has a another stroke

803
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: in August of eighteen forty three, and the next year,

804
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: July eighteen forty four, he passes away at the age

805
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: of seventy seven. His house is sold, you know. And

806
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:39,240
Speaker 1: as as as relatively chill a guy as this story

807
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: makes this dude out to be, it's still does really

808
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: point out the inequity and the gender systems of the time,

809
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 1: the patriarchal systems of the time. Not to get on

810
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: a soapbox, but the fact that he, you know, had

811
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 1: been gone for twenty five years and then just kind

812
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,359
Speaker 1: of came back after having a stroke and then I zoom.

813
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: His wife just served as his caretaker. You know. It

814
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 1: just seems very dismissive and diminishing of her role as

815
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: a human being. Yeah, I think you're right, And and

816
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 1: it's that's a tragedy all its own. His eldest grandson

817
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: gets the house, gets point breeze. When Joseph passed his away,

818
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 1: he has these two huge, packed auctions. And that's why

819
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: even today you'll find a lot of people in the

820
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: US who claim to have items that belonged once upon

821
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 1: a time, did Joseph Buonaparte and a lot of local

822
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 1: museums to certainly possible. I mean definitely in the local museums.

823
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: But you know, with a giant a state, can you

824
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,360
Speaker 1: imagine how much stuff that mean? We talk, you know,

825
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: we go to a state sales for fun. This would

826
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: have been absolutely a mammoth the state sale. Probably some good,

827
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 1: good deals to be had. And there's one last note

828
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: I think we can end on. It's it's poetic and

829
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: it's kind of sweet. It's a movie moment. The brothers

830
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 1: Buonaparte didn't get along all the time, but the love

831
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: was for the homies was still there. There are two

832
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,200
Speaker 1: pieces of correspondence that really drive this home. And know,

833
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: if you're up for it, I can do the first one,

834
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: and maybe you can take us, take us to the

835
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: end of the episode. The very last word from Napoleon himself.

836
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 1: How's that sound? Sounds good to me? My friends? All right?

837
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 1: So okay. So Joseph is telling Julie after the disaster

838
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 1: in Spain, right when he has to be king and

839
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,879
Speaker 1: everybody hates the French and hates a French king even more,

840
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: he tells his wife, in spite of the disagreements that

841
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: have existed between the emperor and myself. It is true

842
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: to say, my dear, that he is still the man

843
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: I love most in the world. Yeah, I mean, it

844
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 1: seemed like there was never any falling out between the

845
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:49,800
Speaker 1: two Bonaparte brothers, which is nice to hear. This is

846
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 1: the story ultimately, I mean, aside from the you know, look,

847
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:54,919
Speaker 1: I know so many people give us a hard time

848
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: for like criticizing gender roles and things that were Oh

849
00:49:58,120 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 1: it was just of the time, you know, But I

850
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 1: still I just wanted to point that out because the

851
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: guy did seem like a pretty decent person, aside from

852
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:08,560
Speaker 1: the womanizing and you know, abandoning his wife for years.

853
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: But this, ye, but it's not like he left her

854
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 1: destitute or anything. She's clearly provided for and lived a

855
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: lovely life as well in her own right back there

856
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 1: in Europe. And we're going to give Napoleon the last

857
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,320
Speaker 1: word because he said something really sweet. It was a

858
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,840
Speaker 1: very nice thing for a despot to say. He said, Joseph,

859
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: though he is much talent and genius, is too good

860
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: a man and too fond of amusement and literature to

861
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 1: be a king. It is a nice thing, Ben, But

862
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 1: it's also kind of a dig a little bit, oh

863
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 1: very much, very much, but it's still nice. Like you

864
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: could tell they like each other, I think, And I

865
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: like the idea that maybe someone is just like their

866
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:57,919
Speaker 1: inherent goodness makes them unqualified to be a king, and

867
00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 1: you know there might be something to that, but that

868
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 1: is a story for another day. Joseph lived quite a life.

869
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: We never caught the Jersey Devil, but he had adventures

870
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 1: that many of us can only dream of. I really

871
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 1: enjoyed the swindle. I know we went long, but it

872
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 1: felt like one continuous narrative. What do you say. I

873
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 1: think it had to be, especially since we teased all

874
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 1: the Jersey Devil stuff up front. It would have been

875
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 1: really annoying, the listening to free right before the payoff. Honestly,

876
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 1: you probably could have made it a two parter, but

877
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 1: then but we would have had to reframe the whole thing,

878
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,359
Speaker 1: and I'm completely happy with it as a one partter. Yeah,

879
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: I enjoyed this one. To ben um, it's a lesser

880
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: known kind of side player in history, and largely you know,

881
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 1: on his own he might have made more waves, but

882
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: since he was sort of in the shadow of his brother,

883
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 1: who wasn't exactly as short as people say, he was

884
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: kind of average height, isn't that right, Ben? Yeah, yeah,

885
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 1: Like I mentioned earlier with the Um, there was sort

886
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:02,040
Speaker 1: of this smear and pain. Like the Spanish said, Joseph

887
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 1: drank a lot. He didn't really drink that much, and

888
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 1: that's I was talking about. You know, Napoleon's heights was

889
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: widely misreported. It was just again pretty average for someone

890
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,640
Speaker 1: from where he's from in that time. Well huge thanks

891
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 1: to super producer Casey Pegram, guest producer Max Williams, Alex Williams.

892
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 1: They're they're kind of a Napoleon and Joseph kind of

893
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 1: situation themselves. I'm not sure which is which though, because

894
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 1: they're both equally awesome. Alex Williams, who composed our theme,

895
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: Christopher haciotis here in spirit, soon to be here in

896
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 1: the flesh once again. I surely hope um and heaves.

897
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 1: Jeff Coats, Yes, yes, hope everybody enjoyed our recent episode

898
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 1: on Turpentine with one and only Eve's Jeff Cote. We

899
00:52:45,800 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 1: also want to shout out our own Jersey Devil, Jonathan

900
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: Strickland a k. The Quister, and uh, you know the

901
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 1: guys so nice. We get a shadow mout twice the

902
00:52:56,280 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: incomparable Gabe Louisier. No, it's been a long week. Mint.

903
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,400
Speaker 1: I don't know about you, but I am looking forward

904
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 1: to kick him back, and maybe I'll go hunt of

905
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: KRYPTI maybe there's a Georgia Devil I can find. There

906
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 1: surely must be many of them in the wilds of

907
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:14,319
Speaker 1: the low Country. That's not we're not low country, we're

908
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: sort of mid country. I don't know the devil went

909
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:18,960
Speaker 1: down to Georgia. He did do that. He was looking

910
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: for a soul to steal. You know what, when I

911
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 1: when I sing that song in my head, I often

912
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,359
Speaker 1: mash it up with Jerry was a race car driver

913
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 1: by primus went down to Georgia. He was looking for

914
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 1: us sold to steel. You should I sure did love

915
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:32,359
Speaker 1: that big brown beaver. And no, that's different. That's were

916
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: known as big brown beaver. But they all kind of

917
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: mashed together. But surely Les Claypool was into devil went

918
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,960
Speaker 1: down to Georgia, no question about it. And with that

919
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 1: in mind, folks, we would of course love to hear

920
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 1: your stories about bizarre crossover moments in history. Let us

921
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 1: know what you think. We'll see you next time. Folks.

922
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:59,239
Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the i

923
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to

924
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:03,200
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.