WEBVTT - Betrayal Weekly: EP 18 - Sara 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:05.480 This whole experience really made me doubt my abilities as 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:09.879 a parent and my self as a person. Basically every 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:13.039 aspect of my identity that I had spent so long 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:16.440 trying to find it like, shook everything. 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:31.960 I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal, a show about 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:34.960 the people we trust the most and the deceptions that 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:45.560 change everything. This is the story of an entire community, 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:49.559 one group of parents who experienced a shocking deception and 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:53.960 overcame it together. We'll hear more from the larger community later, 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:56.640 but for the majority of this episode, we're going to 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:01.960 tell it through one person's perspective. We'll call our Sarah. 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:05.000 Sarah is living her best life as an organic farmer 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:09.560 in Vermont. She exudes cool, She's covered in tattoos and rocks, 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:10.480 a shaved head. 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.720 And never have to have a bad hair toy. I 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:14.960 just don't ever have hair. 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:17.880 She grew up in the Northeast as the oldest child 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:21.039 in her family. When she was little, her parents struggled 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:23.800 to make ends meet, and her father that old addiction. 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:27.800 Sarah remembers a time when her parents were skeptical about 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:32.440 organized religion, even the Christian undertones, and cartoons like veggietails 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:34.400 made her parents uncomfortable. 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:40.000 I remember a conversation where my parents were like going 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:42.320 back and forth and they were like, well, it's just vegetables. 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:45.280 It seems fine, even though there's the religious stuff. My 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:49.160 parents were pretty anti religion, but. 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:52.800 When Sarah was around ten, her parents' religious beliefs began 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:53.360 to shift. 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.440 My dad kind of got warmed up to it when 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:00.520 he was in Alcoholics Anonymous, and then less a year 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:05.360 later we were completely embroiled in a cult. 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:09.160 It started when her mom was recruited to join a 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:09.840 local church. 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:13.800 They were really nice to us, They were really supportive 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:18.080 of my mom. She made friends, and she struggles a 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:21.120 lot to make friends, and so she felt very at 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:24.040 home there. And my dad kind of hit it off 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:27.000 with a couple of the other dads and it seemed 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:31.640 like a really good community. Before we knew it, we 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:33.079 were involved in Quiverful. 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:37.040 Quiverful is a fundamentalist Christian movement focused on having and 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:41.320 raising as many children as possible. Her parents seemed happy 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:43.960 in their new church, and they became more involved in 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:45.000 Sarah's life than ever. 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:48.680 I just turned at eleven at this time, so this 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:51.400 was an improvement. It seemed like when people said, like, 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:55.480 this is the right path, it seemed believable to me. 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:58.560 This church became her new normal. 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:04.440 Services were a little bit intense, as like crying and 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:08.680 speaking in tongues and stuff like that, but I was like, okay, well, 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:10.080 sometimes they had a pot luck. 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:14.000 After four and eleven year old, the pot luck desserts 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:15.760 like jello were enticing. 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:19.160 Then I started kind of moving beyond the jello and 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:24.040 we all got baptized, and then there was like purity stuff, 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:29.200 a lot of purity stuff. So I pledged my virginity 0:03:29.320 --> 0:03:33.440 to the church and my dad, and it was almost 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:37.400 like a wedding. These pretty white dresses and go up 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:39.960 to an altar, and it literally looks like a mass wedding, 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:43.320 but it's like little girls all marrying their dad. But 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:46.240 I was like eleven, so I was like, oh my god, 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:49.000 I get to dress fancy and have a little present 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:51.160 and more jello. So yeay. 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.920 The standards around purity were very high. 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:00.400 It was normal for people in our community to save 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:02.720 their first kiss for marriage. 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:07.040 Sarah's naturally curious, and that was tough to navigate in 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:07.840 this community. 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:13.160 Between me not having been raised in this environment and 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:17.720 having like a rebellious spirit is what I always got told, 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:20.160 just mostly just because I asked a lot of questions. 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.320 It really put a bad light on our family. 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:26.000 Eventually she fell in line. 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:30.839 It's definitely been like kind of hammered in there to 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:36.120 trust authority completely, like there's a reason they're in this position. 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:40.560 I was totally like I believed it fully. 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:45.320 Her little sister, who was nine, struggled and was deemed 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:47.960 a bad kid by church standards. 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:53.960 She got kind of stuck with the bad kids. Everyone 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:56.480 said that they were always pulling shenanigans and they were 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.600 too loud, which they were just normal kids looking back, 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:01.239 or just like nine year olds. 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.120 Some families in their church had as many as twenty children. 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:08.960 For the church, big families served a higher purpose. 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:13.159 You are basically trying to birth an army for the 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:16.440 end times, which you're told could come at any time. 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:18.719 So it already feels too late because it takes, like, 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:20.640 you know, a couple of years for kids to be 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:22.640 able to grow up. So they're like, you got to 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:23.880 have babies now. 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:28.320 Even though they already had six kids. Sarah's mom felt 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.440 pressure to grow their family, but she was struggling to 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:32.080 have more. 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:38.039 She was getting lamed for her issues with not being 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.120 able to have like a ton of kids. It seemed 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:45.600 like her fault for having a rebellious and like worldly family. 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.000 The church believed that God blessed you with as many 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:51.600 kids as you could handle, so if a family was 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.880 struggling to have more children, it was because their existing 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:58.320 kids were disobedient. In order to get closer to God, 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:01.880 Sarah's mom tried to contry her kids, and she did 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:04.040 it by following the church. 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:08.520 Teaching you start corporal punishment at birth. If they bite 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:12.279 you while they're nursing, you pull their hair. If they 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:13.880 don't have hair, you use the switch. 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:18.039 Sarah was only twelve when her mom asked her to 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:20.720 use a switch on her newborn sister. 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:25.720 I'm also a kid, and no matter how much I'm 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:29.640 doctrination there was I just could not bring myself to 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:33.719 do that. It felt like some Stanford prison experiment kind 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:33.960 of thing. 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:39.039 This was a defining moment for Sarah. 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:42.880 At that point, I started questioning, is it because I'm 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:46.080 not faithful enough, is it because I shouldn't be a mother? 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:50.240 Or is this just wrong? And that was the first 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:53.599 time I had considered it might be wrong. 0:06:55.120 --> 0:07:00.080 She started questioning the church, specifically how they parented. I 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.120 had the strictly enforced gender roles. 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.359 One of the weird things about quiver Fill is like 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:11.240 boys will be boys until they're forty five, but girls 0:07:11.360 --> 0:07:16.480 are future mothers in training from day one. 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:21.920 When Sarah was fourteen, she started going to public school. 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:25.480 This was actually a form of punishment, but there she 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:27.920 met a new friend who opened her eyes to another 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:31.160 way of living, and her friend's mom was worried about 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:32.840 Sarah's home life. 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:38.679 They were so concerned and rightfully so she basically told 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:40.880 me to come and live with them, and she would 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:43.800 lie to my mom about where I was if she asked, 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:46.040 My home was not that invested. To be honest, you 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:46.960 didn't really come looking. 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:53.840 Soon Sarah stopped coming home altogether, and so I ended 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:58.760 up moving in with this family, and they really did 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:00.400 everything in their power to help me out. 0:08:00.720 --> 0:08:02.560 So I do refer to her as my foster mom, 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.880 even though I was never officially in the foster care system. 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.840 She adored her new foster family, especially her foster mom. 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.520 She wanted me to have like good role models and 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.120 got me involved in the community in a Jewish community. 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:21.480 She was never pushy about anything, and there were really 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:25.880 good role models. Jewish people don't proselytize, which I found 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:30.000 very strange. I was like, are they trying to convert me? 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:32.360 And she's like, they don't want you to convert, that's 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:35.280 not a thing. They just want to give you some food. 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:37.280 And I was like, oh cool. 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.880 Through her foster family, she was welcomed into the Jewish faith. 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:44.480 They nurtured her natural curiosity. 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:48.240 That was what was most appealing to me. I had 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:50.480 a million questions and they were excited to answer the 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:54.800 questions with more questions. There was never like a shut up, 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:57.560 don't ask that. It was like, so, this is three 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:01.440 different opinions that most people have. My opinion, what do 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:01.920 you think? 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:06.400 Sarah was smart and inquisitive about the world, but she'd 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:07.600 fallen behind in school. 0:09:08.520 --> 0:09:10.640 My parents had taken me out of school in fourth grade, 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:14.120 and so from fourth grade to the end of sophomore year, 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:15.439 I had no education. 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:21.040 On her eighteenth birthday, Sarah dropped out. After that, she 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:24.200 decided to leave her foster family's home too. 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:28.199 I didn't want to burden this family, so I left 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:32.200 them as well. I hadn't been taught how to like 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:35.760 live with normal people. It was just like time for 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:39.640 me to go. But they were instrumental in my running 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:44.480 away from the cult. And so I left and I 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:50.120 went to the nearest city and I was homeless for 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:54.320 a year. At first I was on the street, and 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:57.400 then I was in a shelter For the first few months. 0:09:57.440 --> 0:09:59.760 It was really rough. And then I got a job 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:05.440 at tattoo Studio and I became a body fiercer there 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:09.160 through an apprenticeship. It was like my passion. It was 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:09.839 so much fun. 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:13.920 She didn't leave everything from her old life behind. She 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:17.439 still wanted faith in her life. Somehow, being exposed to 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:22.120 Judaism in her foster family inspired Sarah to officially convert. 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:24.440 It gave me a sense of community and a sense 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:26.920 of stability that I think I was missing. And like, 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:32.040 this very kind group of people who want to support 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:36.440 you and you don't owe them anything for that. That's 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:40.120 really nice for me. It's comforting, like I don't like 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.200 go to bed wondering if I'm going to wake up 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:43.920 still part of my only community. 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:48.280 She also decided to start dating. That's when she met Paul. 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:51.920 She was swiping on Tinder and his profile made her laugh. 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.320 He had like mostly pictures of frogs, but they were 0:10:56.320 --> 0:11:00.000 like from Google with like the wild work. I was like, 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:04.040 that's really strange, and so I was curious and started 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:05.960 talking to him, and he was like hilarious. 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.640 For their first date, he brought her a surprise. 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.920 He brought me a Stuart Little two poster as a gift. 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:17.720 I was like, what a weird guy. 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.440 They dated casually for about six months, going on dates 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.480 when they both had time and money to spare. 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:28.480 That was until the day of COVID lockdown in twenty twenty. 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:30.480 I found out I was pregnant. 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:33.840 As soon as she saw the pregnancy test, she knew 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:34.880 she would keep the baby. 0:11:35.480 --> 0:11:39.439 I have terrible PCs, so I did not think I 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:41.480 was able to get pregnant, which is part of why 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:43.520 I wanted to keep the pregnancy so bad. 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:47.200 She was prepared to go it alone with or without Paul. 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:50.560 After she took a few minutes to process the news, 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:51.440 she called him. 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.200 Both of us were just kind of crying and just 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.880 like trying to figure out what to say to the 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:03.520 other person. And so I told him like, I want 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:06.280 to be a mom, like really bad. And I was like, 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:08.440 you don't have to have anything to do with this, 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:12.000 But he really wanted to be like a present and 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:12.800 good dad. 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:18.920 After that day, Sarah moved in with him. On some level, 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:22.360 she felt prepared for parenthood. After all, she'd been taking 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:24.320 care of young children her whole life. 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:29.560 I felt very comfortable with my ability to keep babies alive. 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.320 It's like, I've done this a million times. I know 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:33.320 exactly what I'm doing. 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.120 But the environment she'd grown up in wasn't emotionally healthy 0:12:37.280 --> 0:12:40.560 or nurturing, and she knew one thing for certain, she 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.040 wasn't going to raise her baby the way she was raised. 0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:48.079 She would have to find another way. She would need resources. 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:53.360 Being an emotionally present and caring parent who's breezing a person. 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:58.040 I was like, oh my god, I have no idea 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.439 what I'm doing, Like I need help now. 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.959 Sarah's pregnancy was a fresh start for her, a chance 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.440 to mold a new life and a safe, supportive family. 0:13:23.040 --> 0:13:24.480 It started with her and Paul. 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.920 I had like dated a couple people before, but I 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.479 had not had a partner. 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:36.240 She would learn the meaning of true partnership during pregnancy. 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.400 I did have a super high risk pregnancy, and I 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:41.800 had to be on bed rest from like week twelve. 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:44.880 It was awful. It was terrible. I had to quit 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.640 my job. He had to support me and take care 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:51.160 of me, like physically put me in the shower and 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:57.120 help me shower, and like he was amazing. He bought 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.760 me a kindle, loaded it up with like every book, 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:03.680 and he would like put my socks on me so 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:05.800 my feet didn't get cold, so I didn't have to 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.040 like kick the blanket around to try to get back 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:11.760 over me. And he would do his work in the 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:16.080 bedroom whenever possible, so that I just had like a 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:20.840 person nearby. He just took amazing. 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:24.080 Care of me, and she learned by his example. 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:30.280 So has that really turned things for me? I was like, okay, 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:36.440 a successful relationship between friends, between partners, between parents and 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:40.240 children is like a huge mutual effort to make the 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:42.560 other person feel cared for. 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:45.600 She reached out to her friends who had young kids, 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:49.440 and she started by calling two friends whose parenting styles 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:50.240 she admired. 0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.920 They had both suggested that I join some gentle parenting 0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:56.360 groups on Facebook. 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.720 Being bedridden for her entire pregnancy meant she had a 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.280 lot of time on her hands. She brows group after 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:06.640 group until she found one that really resonated and it 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:08.240 was a huge community. 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:10.480 I think at the height, there was like a couple 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:16.920 hundred thousand, and everybody in there, it seemed, was like 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.760 focused on the same goal that I was, where like 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:25.600 raising a functional, confident, compassionate person. And I was like, Okay, 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:27.440 this seems like a really good place for me to be. 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:32.080 She started spending hours every day in the group, reading 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.400 every post and asking questions of her own. 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:41.040 I was trying to absorb every single molecule of gentle 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:44.200 kind parenting advice that I could fit in my brain. 0:15:44.280 --> 0:15:46.760 In the course of nine months. 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:50.400 Sarah made real friends through the group, and she noticed 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:50.880 a pattern. 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:55.800 Almost everyone in the group was trying to break some 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.800 kind of cycle of like abuse or neglect, and a 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:02.560 lot of people were like, my childhood was hellish, and 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:05.760 I'm never letting that happen. So it just seemed like 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:10.840 a really supportive community for people who were trying to 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:13.920 do better for their kids. 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:18.400 For Sarah, this was more than just a Facebook group. 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:21.840 It was personal. She was a strange from her family, 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:25.560 so this group became a real community, supporting her through 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:27.400 pregnancy and celebrating with her. 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:31.680 With groups based around cycle breaking, some people don't have 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:34.840 a family to celebrate with them and so we would 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:39.680 be that family. A person you don't even know would 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.920 be like, oh my gosh, after four years of trying, 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.160 we're finally pregnant and we got our first soldier sound 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:47.120 and it's twins, and we would all be like, oh 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.920 my god. Genuinely, I was so excited for these people. 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:55.080 There was a hierarchy in the group. Four admins approved 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:57.520 every post and enforced the community guidelines. 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:01.880 So the admins in the group, they were like moderating, 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:07.400 approving posts, but they were also kind of like leaders 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:10.320 in the group, because you know, people come there with 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:15.200 crisis level stuff, so if you're really struggling with something, 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:17.679 they're the first people to see the post because they 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:21.240 approve it and they really go out of their way 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:23.840 to make sure that people are safe. 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:27.600 Sarah had a lot in common with one of the admins, 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:28.879 so we'll call Becky. 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:36.560 She had posted a lot about being a Jewish parent. 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:39.440 Becky was a huge presence in the group. 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.359 She was like an admin and a super frequent poster. 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:46.159 People were very invested in her life. People knew her 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.120 kid by first name and like people had her birth 0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:50.440 announcements on their fridge. 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.680 Becky was a successful attorney would overcome a great deal 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:55.439 of adversity. 0:17:56.040 --> 0:18:00.560 She had just a really difficult upbringing and the odds 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:05.280 were completely stacked against her. She was a teen mom. 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:09.560 She had her first baby so young. She had also 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:16.520 suffered child loss, which was unimaginable to me. Just like 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:20.200 thinking about, you know how much I loved my son 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.800 before I had even met him. I think that's every 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:23.760 parent's worst fear. 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:30.360 Becky's toddler had passed away unexpectedly. She was a resource 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:32.640 and a guiding light for other parents in the group 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:36.560 who experienced the same tragedy. Becky managed this grace while 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:40.440 raising six other kids, but the tragedy didn't end there. 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:43.840 Her oldest child had recently been the victim of an 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:45.359 anti gay hate crime. 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:50.640 The sympathy and like hurt that I felt for her 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:56.280 knowing that her kid had been through this awful. 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.879 Becky posted all the details of the hate in the group. 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.960 There were hundreds of comments being like, we love you, Becky. 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:13.920 People were just so genuinely caring for her. She was 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:21.760 receiving gifts, some of them monetary. She was getting constant 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:27.840 affection and attention from everyone. 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:32.000 But despite all this hardship, Becky was thriving in her 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:35.640 career and putting her all into raising her six children. 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:38.000 She was a super mom. 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:41.359 Like she's amazing, you know. She had her kid in 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:47.119 these cultural emergence schools, and she was taking these incredible trips, 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:51.600 like they went to Scotland, and like she had these beautiful, enriching, 0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:55.280 individualized lives that she had built for these kids. And 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:58.639 I was like, Wow, I need to get my acts 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:00.480 together if I want to be able to a parent 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:04.760 like this. And so I think I kind of idolized 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:05.440 her a little bit. 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:10.480 Becky posted videos of herself giving updates on her family's life. 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:16.119 In all the videos, she was alone. There were no kids, sounds, 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:22.000 or never her husband. It was just her. I assumed 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:24.840 that it was like her five minutes alone. She wanted 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:26.160 to connect with other parents. 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:30.720 Becky's husband and their oldest kids were all on Facebook too. 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:34.120 Her whole family was for the most part on Facebook. 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:37.880 Becky and her husband were always flirting with each other 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:38.440 in the group. 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:42.520 It was a lot. It seemed like it was in 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:45.400 good fun, but it was uncomfortable to see publicly. 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:49.280 When Sarah joined the group, she was finishing the process 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.560 of converting to Judaism. She looked at Becky as a 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:55.720 resource and inspiration for raising kids in the Jewish faith. 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:59.800 But when Sarah tried to connect over this, Becky wasn't interested. 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:03.439 I was like, why are we not friends? And she 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:07.040 didn't even want to acknowledge it, which was very odd 0:21:07.080 --> 0:21:07.320 to me. 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:11.680 It wasn't just that they were both Jewish. They were 0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:13.080 interested in the same things. 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:18.080 I'm passionate about heritage language, like that's my thing, and 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:21.560 she's a Jewish person who's passionate about heritage language. And 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:23.480 she would not speak to me about it. 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:28.520 But Becky would post videos of herself showcasing her language 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:29.360 learning skills. 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:35.440 She was speaking Ladino, which is like Judaeo Spanish. It's 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:38.680 sort of adjacent to Yiddish, which is one of my languages. 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:42.920 And it really drove home to me and a lot 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:46.639 of other people how smart she was. 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:50.840 Sarah learned that Becky was also a convert. It's not 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:53.600 that common, so she really wanted to bond over that 0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:54.680 shared experience. 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:58.119 I wanted to ask questions about that, and I was like, 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:02.720 really looking for that advice from her, and unfortunately she 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:03.280 just would not. 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:07.919 And there was another reason she felt connected to Becky. 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:12.560 They both had difficult upbringings. When Becky posted about her childhood, 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:17.040 Sarah chimed in. She understood because she'd been through some 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:18.000 of the same things. 0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:21.919 I jokingly sometimes referred to myself as a rescue. It's like, 0:22:22.640 --> 0:22:25.760 you know, I was literally living on the street and 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:29.919 then living in a studio when I met my husband, 0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:32.679 and I had probably like twenty bucks, So I was like, 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:36.480 that happens. That's crazy. We both had our like Cinderella moment, 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:40.720 and she just like did not the kinship thing wasn't neutral, 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:42.000 and I was like, okay, I'm being weird. 0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:46.439 Sarah began to worry that maybe she'd said something to 0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:48.800 offend Becky, and I was. 0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:52.960 Like, oh, did I like say something? So I was 0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:54.480 really concerned. 0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:57.159 That I had really hurt her, So she tried to 0:22:57.160 --> 0:22:58.960 connect with other people in the group. 0:22:59.800 --> 0:23:02.760 I started seeking out other Jewish parents in that group, 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:05.119 and everyone was like, you got to talk to Becky, 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:07.680 and I was like, oh, okay, I'll try. 0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:13.120 Sarah would ask Becky about things like breastfeeding and keeping kosher. 0:23:13.800 --> 0:23:16.480 Every time I asked her a question, I would get 0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:21.119 an answer, but it didn't line up with anything that 0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:24.240 I had ever heard before. But I guess she would know, 0:23:25.080 --> 0:23:28.280 and so I started to sort of get back to 0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:30.720 that place where I was like, am I qualified for this? 0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:35.200 The interactions with Becky always left her feeling worse than before. 0:23:35.960 --> 0:23:38.639 She wasn't even a parent yet, but she started to 0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:41.359 doubt her ability to raise her son in the Jewish faith. 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:46.640 I don't know anything. I was like, maybe I am 0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:49.560