1 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: What's up its way up at Angela Yee. I'm Angela Yee. 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 1: And of course it's time for Wealth Wednesday and Stacy Tisdal, 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:12,959 Speaker 1: my partner, is here. 4 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 2: It is Wealth Wednesday, everybody. We are so excited about 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 2: this week's episode. 6 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 3: And Jasmine Brand is here today. 7 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 1: But we do have a special guest with us, Alan Suklitski. 8 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: We said that right, yes, and this is all about 9 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 1: master Works. You're the chief investment officer for master Works, 10 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: so first tell us what master Works is for everybody listening. 11 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 4: Yep. So, first of all, thank you for having me. 12 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 4: I appreciate it. Master Works as a company that was 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 4: started in twenty seventeen and the goal of the company 14 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 4: is to make art accessible and investible to the vast 15 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 4: majority of investors. And the reason why this was so 16 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 4: revolutionary when we started the company is because, you know, 17 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 4: if you think about the fact that paintings can often 18 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,279 Speaker 4: sell for millions and millions of dollars, if you stop 19 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 4: for a moment to think who can actually afford to 20 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 4: buy these things, you quickly realize, well, they're probably only 21 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 4: a bunch of individuals and families around the world who 22 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 4: have enough money to buy them. So the idea was, 23 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 4: is there a way for us to actually make multimillion 24 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 4: dollar paintings investable for the majority of investors. And the 25 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,040 Speaker 4: way that we do it is actually, you know, it's funny. 26 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 4: It's so simple to think about it and talk about 27 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 4: it now, but before somebody thought of it. Just like 28 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 4: everything else, it's confusing until you figure it out. Basically, 29 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 4: the way it works is, you know, when investors buy 30 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 4: stocks on the stock market, you're buying a piece of 31 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 4: an otherwise very big company. Right, if you want to 32 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 4: invest in Apple, you don't need trillions of dollars to 33 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 4: buy the entire company. You can just buy a few 34 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 4: shares of the company. And so the thinking for these 35 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 4: paintings was exactly the same, which is, if we buy 36 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 4: paintings that are millions of dollars in terms of their price, 37 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 4: and we cut them, so to speak, cut them into 38 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 4: pieces or it's called fractionalize them, then we give investors 39 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 4: the ability to buy pieces of multimillion dollar paintings. So 40 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 4: now they can invest in them and they can profit 41 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 4: from the performance that the art market is at. 42 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: So our audience can think of it just like a 43 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 2: Robin hood or just like a stash the micro investing, 44 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 2: but you're bringing it to the art market. 45 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 4: That's exactly the way this works in real estate. 46 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 3: We do that in real estate. 47 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 5: So when you explained it to me a real estate time, 48 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 5: I was like, oh, I. 49 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 3: Get it right. 50 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: And I saw one study said that all forms of 51 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: art investment represents sixty billion dollars worth of total transaction 52 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: volume per year. Right, So they said a healthy portion 53 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: of that comes from smaller investors who pull their money 54 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: with others. 55 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 4: That's that's exactly the idea. I mean, one of the things. 56 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 4: You know, it's funny. I've thought about this a lot 57 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,679 Speaker 4: for some reason. You know, art even though it's existed forever, right, 58 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 4: Like you don't need to be you don't have to 59 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 4: have a degree in art. If somebody asks you, even 60 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 4: if you know almost nothing about art, is art a 61 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:55,519 Speaker 4: new invention or do you think it's existed for a 62 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 4: long everybody forever? 63 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,519 Speaker 3: It's existed for a hieroglyphics exactly. 64 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 4: It's actually funny you say that, you know. I always 65 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 4: make the joke that humans were drawing pictures on cave 66 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 4: walls before they were investing in companies. So heart has 67 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 4: existed forever and yet almost nobody has ever thought about 68 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 4: investing it it. Almost nobody knows about what it is, 69 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 4: how to think about it, and so they often assume 70 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 4: that the art market might not actually even be that big. 71 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 4: And yet it's basically a two two and a half 72 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 4: trillion dollar ass a class with sixty billion dollars in 73 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 4: volume every year. 74 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: I've definitely bust some art, you know, Jasmine, you've been 75 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: to my house to see. 76 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 5: My favorite is a Prince one I did. 77 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's hard to tell because somebody told me one time. 78 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: Also like, as I know, this is a different topic, 79 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: but as I'm buying art, right, they're like, I'm always 80 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: like thinking, is this something that's a valuable investment. But 81 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: my friend was like, if you just like it and 82 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: you're not going to sell it, then it doesn't really matter. 83 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: You buy what you like if you're planning to just 84 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: keep it in your home. But who knows, one day 85 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: it could be where something might was in mister brainwash 86 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: that I actually commissioned him to do. So I have 87 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: that one. And then most recently, I bought a couple 88 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: of Nelson A Como pieces when he did his art 89 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 1: show in l A. So those are just like individual things. 90 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: But it's not like I'm buying it to sell it, 91 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: but the idea of buying into something that could be 92 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: valuable and worth more money, like you can get a 93 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 1: baskiyat right, or not get a whole buskett a fractionable. 94 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 5: And that's the thing about art. I always thought that 95 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 5: people that art were like privileged. I always felt like 96 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 5: it was a rich. 97 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 2: People thing like people I used to think of the stock. 98 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 5: Market exactly, which I still kind of partially think that way. 99 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 5: But with your concept of your you know what you 100 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 5: all do, you can invest. You can invest and makes 101 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 5: it more realistic for people, so you. 102 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 3: Don't have to get a scarface poster and frame. 103 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 2: It in exactly interesting. 104 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 5: But you know, if I feel that it's attainable for me, 105 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 5: if I like, do you know, I can invest in 106 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 5: are as opposed to buying the entire piece, which I 107 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 5: can't afford. 108 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: And it also doesn't have to be something that you 109 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: necessarily like, right, Well, this is for investing people. 110 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: Really. When I started working for the Wall Street Journal, 111 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 2: they said I was going to have to cover the 112 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 2: art market, which I had to make the leap. The 113 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 2: art market is really like a leading indicator of what's 114 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 2: going on in the overall economy. So pay attention to 115 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 2: what's going on the art market. It's a phenomenal barometer 116 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 2: of the overall economy. But for people out there who 117 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 2: are thinking of, you know, art, that's for privileged people. 118 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 2: Just from an investment standpoint, the US stock market is 119 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 2: the best investment game in town. As we talk about. 120 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 2: Since it's beginning, it's averaged a nine percent annual return. 121 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 2: The art market, however, averages an average twelve and a 122 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 2: half percent annual return. So we really want people to 123 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: start thinking about it is investing. 124 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 5: So you tell me to pull out all my stocks 125 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 5: in the now, diversify. 126 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 2: We're gonna borrow. We're gonna borrow against Angelus Painting. 127 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 5: I'm gonna take the equity. 128 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 2: Out of that. 129 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 3: Now, can so tell us how this actually works? 130 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, So basically here, here's how the process works. So 131 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 4: we we buy a painting and entirety, we master works, 132 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 4: We buy painting, We create a company. We literally just 133 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 4: create a company out of nowhere in LLC. We create 134 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 4: a company. We transfer ownership of the painting from us 135 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 4: into that company that was a very state okay, and 136 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 4: then we register that company with the Securities and Exchange Commission, 137 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 4: the sec regulatory body, and then we take that company public. 138 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 4: So investors are technically they're buying shares in that company. 139 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 4: So remember that companies it just owns a painting. So 140 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 4: basically the company is the painting. So when investors buy 141 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 4: shares in that company, they buy shares in the painting. 142 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 4: That's as simple as the process is. But once again, 143 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 4: like I said before, until somebody thought of how to 144 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 4: do that, it was you know. 145 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 5: Are you the first kind of company to think this? 146 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 4: Or yeah, yeah, first ones to do it, and. 147 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 5: You broke down how it came about, But was whether 148 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 5: that personal experience like damn I really want this, how 149 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 5: would I be able to attain it? 150 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 2: Or who's discuss. 151 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 4: So our founder Scotland, he's been involved in the art 152 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 4: market for a very long time and he actually he 153 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 4: had the idea for the company because it's you know, 154 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 4: it's a little bit of a funny story because you know, 155 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 4: when there are some things that people naturally think about 156 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 4: in number terms, and there are some things that people 157 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 4: just never think about in number terms. So the way 158 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 4: the idea came was he was having a conversation with 159 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 4: some of his friends who are art collectors, and he 160 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 4: asked them, if he asked them this question that I'm 161 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 4: about to tell you, if he asked them this question 162 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 4: for stocks, or for real estate, or for anything else, 163 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 4: they would have had an answer for him. But he 164 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,560 Speaker 4: asked them this question for art, and they looked at 165 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 4: him like he had ten heads. And the question was 166 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 4: as simple as, how is your art portfolio doing? Simple question? 167 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 4: And they looked at him like, what do you mean, 168 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 4: how's my art portfolio? I don't know. My paintings hang 169 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 4: on my walls. They look beautiful. I don't even understand 170 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 4: what you're asking me. So what he realized is art 171 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 4: has never been thought of in sort of number and 172 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 4: financial terms. So what master Works did for the first 173 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 4: two years of its existence, we basically compiled this huge 174 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 4: data base of all of basically anything quantitatively oriented in 175 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 4: the art market. We compile this database with seventy years 176 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 4: worth of data in it, started analyzing it. That's how 177 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 4: we figured out, Wait a minute, some segments of the 178 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 4: art market, as you pointed out, go up over time 179 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 4: at twelve point six percent. Some segments of the art 180 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 4: market don't go up quite as much. Some artists are 181 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 4: way more attractive to invest in than other art There 182 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 4: was a lot of this analytical work that we did 183 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 4: to figure out where should we invest, where should we 184 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 4: not invest. So that's kind of how the whole thing starts. 185 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: And with anything else, there is also the risk that 186 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: it could also potentially go down in value, right, just 187 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: like in the stock market and in real estate also. 188 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 4: Yep. The only thing I would say on that point 189 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 4: is that, so the risk you're talking about is something 190 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 4: in the investment world it's called loss rates, which is 191 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 4: basically how often does this thing that you're looking at 192 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:51,679 Speaker 4: go down? Loss rates in the art market are actually 193 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 4: significantly lower than they are for just about every other 194 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 4: asset class. So I want to be clear, investments in 195 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 4: the art market can go down. The risk, right, always 196 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 4: a risk. It doesn't matter what investment you're looking at. 197 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 4: It is always a risk. But loss rates in the 198 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 4: art market do happen to be a lot smaller than 199 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 4: they are another market. 200 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,959 Speaker 3: I guess somebody comment though, paint all over, put gum 201 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 3: on your we. 202 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 2: Can make something later. So people are going to listen 203 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 2: to this and say, Okay, that sounds great, how do 204 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 2: I actually do it? And you're going to explain that 205 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 2: The one thing that I love is when someone says, Okay, 206 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 2: I want to start investing through master Works, they actually 207 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 2: get a free consultation with a financial advisor about their 208 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 2: overall finance. 209 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 4: Yep. So is that is actually absolutely critical because just 210 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 4: like an investor, if you're if you're starting out investing 211 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 4: in stocks, you'll often have a conversation with a financial 212 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 4: advisor who will talk to you about what are your goals, 213 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 4: what is the size of your portfolio? How much appetite 214 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 4: do you have for risk? Is it a lot, is 215 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 4: it a little. They'll kind of put together all these 216 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 4: different pieces and they'll figure out what's the kind of 217 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 4: portfolio that person should build for the client, how much 218 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 4: should they have in stocks, and all the other things. 219 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 4: Our financial advisors are basically doing the exact same thing. 220 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 4: The only difference is they are focused on the art 221 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 4: investments in a client's portfolio. So they'll talk about what 222 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 4: are your goals, what kind of a time horizon do 223 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 4: you have? All of those questions they're all the same, 224 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 4: And the part that I want to emphasize is that 225 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 4: every one of our investors actually has to talk to 226 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 4: one of our financial advisors before they make any investments 227 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 4: with us at all. Now, if you think this through, 228 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 4: it's not like we always had to do it that way, right. 229 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 4: You can imagine that in an ideal world, you would 230 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,080 Speaker 4: love for anyone to be able to sign up and 231 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 4: to go and make all the investments they want, and 232 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 4: that would be great and wonderful. The problem is, we are, 233 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 4: at the end of the day, a financial institution. We 234 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 4: have a duty to our investors to make sure that 235 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 4: they're not taking risks that they should not be taking. 236 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 4: And the way that we do that is we make 237 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,719 Speaker 4: sure that every single investor, and we have a lot 238 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 4: of investors at this point, every single war one of 239 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 4: them has to talk to a financial advisor first to 240 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 4: understand what is the appropriate amount they should invest in 241 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 4: their portfolio before they make any investments. 242 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:11,960 Speaker 2: Well, how does numbers look like? Like, does someone need thousands? 243 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 2: Does it typically come out to be a thousands of 244 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 2: dollars recommendation? 245 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 4: So a lot of it will depend on the specific investor. 246 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 4: In fact, most of it depends on the investor. I 247 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 4: wouldn't give you a strict minimum that we have, and 248 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 4: the reason why is because it varies considerably. So if 249 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,959 Speaker 4: you are. So we have investors who literally span the gamuts. 250 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 4: So we have investors who have very little experience investing, 251 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 4: who are just starting to build their investment portfolio, and 252 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 4: their portfolio will be very little. We have investors who 253 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 4: are billionaires all the way at the opposite end of 254 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 4: the spectrum, and they have enormous portfolios and everything in between. 255 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:47,760 Speaker 4: So what I would say is, depending on the type 256 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 4: of investor that this person might be, we will make 257 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 4: appropriate recommendations for their portfolio. And so, as an example, 258 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 4: the same way that you would never tell an investor 259 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 4: that their entire portfolio should be in real estate, date, 260 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 4: you should also never tell investor that their whole portfolio 261 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 4: should be an art or frankly anything else for that matter, 262 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 4: because that's not diversification, which you guys actually mentioned a 263 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 4: few minutes ago. 264 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 2: People can get in the door for a couple hundred dollars. 265 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 2: It all all depending on the investment, all. 266 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 4: Depends on the investor. So I think the main takeaway 267 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 4: here is we will never ever want to make an 268 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 4: outsized recommendation for any particular investor. If your whole portfolio 269 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 4: is fifty thousand dollars, Let's say we are not going 270 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 4: to tell you to put twenty five thousand dollars into 271 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 4: art investments because that is horrible from a risk management perspective. 272 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 4: So it's always going to be relevant for the investor 273 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 4: that we talked to. 274 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 2: And then you can actually buy shares for like twenty dollars. 275 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 4: Every share is twenty dollars, so obviously paintings that are 276 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 4: worth more will have many more shares than paintings that 277 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 4: are worth less. But the shares are always twenty dollars 278 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 4: per share, and. 279 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 5: I can sell them, yeah, regular. 280 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 4: So you actually have the ability to It's funny you 281 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 4: brought that up. We have something called a secondary market. 282 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 4: Secondary market is a fancy way of saying this is 283 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 4: a place where investors who already own shares and paintings 284 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 4: that we have, they can buy and sell those shares 285 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 4: to each other. Okay, now I want to be really 286 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 4: clear about something so nobody gets the wrong idea our 287 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 4: secondary market. Because it's a secondary market for art investments. 288 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 4: It doesn't operate as sort of efficiently, and it's not 289 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 4: as liquid as the stock market. Right. If you buy 290 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 4: a stock on the stock market right in this moment 291 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 4: and you wanted to sell it three seconds later you 292 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 4: could do that. There's no problem. Stocks trade all day long. 293 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 4: There are millions of people all over the world trading them. 294 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 4: Art is not something that really trades on a very 295 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 4: regular basis. 296 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 3: And that a day trader. 297 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 4: You absolutely are not a day trader. 298 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:47,839 Speaker 5: Day trader, yep. 299 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 4: So you can sell shares to and from other art 300 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,720 Speaker 4: investors on our secondary market, but do not think of 301 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 4: it as like the stock market. That's the best one. 302 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 2: And it's also this is more of a long term investment. 303 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 5: Thank you. 304 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 4: I was going to bring that, yes, window, yeah. 305 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: But if you should need to get your money out, 306 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: you know quickly. But that's also why you're diverse, right, 307 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:10,839 Speaker 1: this is something that you look at as a long 308 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 1: term investment exactly, and if there's things that you need 309 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 1: to accomplish financially in a shorter term, this probably isn't 310 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: the ideal way to do your long term. 311 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 4: Propose or allocate less to it, right, It's one of those. 312 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,040 Speaker 1: So since twenty seventeen, you guys, I read and I 313 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: don't know if this is an updated number, eight hundred 314 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: thousand users. 315 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 4: Okay, I think it's a little more than that now, but. 316 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: Yes, okay, And to date I want to know what 317 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: has been the most I guess I don't know how 318 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: to say it, like successful or biggest return, as which 319 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: which piece of art, which pieces are possible? 320 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 4: So I mean, the answer to your question was a 321 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 4: very very unique circumstance. So I want everyone who's listening 322 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 4: to understand, do not expect this to happen every time. 323 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 4: This was extremely unusual. We bought a painting by an 324 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 4: African American artist named Simone Ley actually sculpture, excuse me, 325 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 4: and we ended up selling it approximately two months later. 326 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 4: I'm not going to go into the details of the circumstances, 327 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 4: but we sold it two months later, which was super 328 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 4: fast as far as transactions go in the art market. 329 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 4: That never happens. But we ended up selling it two 330 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 4: months later, and so on an annualized return basis that 331 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 4: came out to three hundred and twenty five percent. Wow, 332 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 4: that was the best performer. But again, I want to 333 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 4: so the main takeaway that's like. 334 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: This tack market, that's an unusual thing, something that happens 335 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:34,160 Speaker 1: all the time. 336 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 4: That's off the charts, that's way off the charts. Okay, 337 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 4: So that is the answer your question. That's been the 338 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 4: best performer. But don't expect that to happen every single time. 339 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: Now, what happens when something gets sold? Do people get 340 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: their money out? Like okay, so you just cash out as. 341 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 4: Simple as that. Investors get their distributions. 342 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 3: Yep, okay. 343 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 2: You mentioned a black black sculptor. You were mentioning this 344 00:15:56,680 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 2: is also a way for people who want to get 345 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 2: involved in arn and want to learn more about art. 346 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 2: They can support black artists and look for black artists. 347 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,120 Speaker 2: Tell us a little bit about that aspect. 348 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, so, you know, one of the most interesting things 349 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 4: in the art market, and I'm still not even convinced 350 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 4: that it's fully appreciated by the art world in general. 351 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 4: I think it's coming around to it over time, but 352 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 4: I still don't think it's fully appreciated. Remember before I 353 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 4: was talking about all of this data that we use. 354 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 4: We kind of built that big database with all those 355 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 4: transactions and all that. So one of the things that 356 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 4: we learned from analyzing that data is that the best 357 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 4: performing investments in the art market are hands down by 358 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 4: diverse artists. Now, that is actually one of the most 359 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 4: ironic things in the world, because the art market overall itself, 360 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 4: there aren't that many diverse artists to begin with. So 361 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 4: the fact that there aren't even that many diverse artists 362 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 4: and those diverse artists happens to be happen to be 363 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 4: the ones that are actually generating the most attractive performance 364 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 4: for people. That's extraordinary. So it's one of these interesting 365 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 4: things where you know, we've brought down the barriers in 366 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 4: the art market, allowing so many more investors to now 367 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 4: be able to invest in the art market. That's one piece. 368 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 4: The second piece is if you're the type of investor 369 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 4: who maybe wants to support certain artists in particular, you 370 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 4: absolutely have the ability to do that with our platform 371 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 4: because remember before I said that the art market overall 372 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 4: doesn't have that many diverse artists in it. Our platform 373 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 4: actually has a disproportionately larger number of diverse artists. And 374 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,200 Speaker 4: if you're wondering, well, why might that be the case? 375 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 4: I just mentioned it a minute ago, which is they 376 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 4: often have the best performance, so how could we not 377 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:33,680 Speaker 4: offer them to investor? 378 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 2: Why do you think that is? And also tell our 379 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,399 Speaker 2: audience a little bit about some of the artists that 380 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:39,120 Speaker 2: you have up there. 381 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, so I think over the last i don't know, 382 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 4: five ten, twenty years I think there's sort of been 383 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 4: a resurgence in the appreciation of the African American community. 384 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 4: I mean, I don't think I need to sort of 385 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 4: talk on the show here about that, and I think 386 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 4: that influences a lot of how well these artists are 387 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 4: ultimately performing. Example would be well, Simone le I already 388 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 4: talked about before because you asked what's been the best performer. 389 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 4: Another example would be Sam Gilliam. Sam Gillium is an 390 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 4: artist who actually he passed away last year. He had 391 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 4: a very long career, grew up in Kentucky, and a 392 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 4: lot of his works included themes about sort of the 393 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 4: African American experience in the sixties and the seventies. He 394 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,960 Speaker 4: also had a thing for jazz musicians, and so that 395 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 4: was an artist whose work we sold and we generated 396 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 4: I think just over a thirty three percent return to 397 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 4: our investors. So, you know, it's just one of these 398 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 4: things where it's funny how we straddle the art market 399 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 4: because on the one hand, we're involved in art, which 400 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 4: is not always thought of as the most sort of 401 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 4: financial oriented thing to do, but we're also having to 402 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 4: pick really good investments for our investors, and so as 403 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 4: a result of that, we're both educating investors on who 404 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,199 Speaker 4: are all of these different artists, what are the themes 405 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 4: that they're bringing out in their work, And as a 406 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 4: really nice supplement to that education, we're also generating very 407 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 4: attractive performance for investors. 408 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,439 Speaker 3: So is there a buyer? Are there buyers who are 409 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 3: actually choosing which pieces? Yeah to acquire? 410 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 4: How yep? So we we do. We have a We 411 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 4: have an acquisitions team. Our acquisitions team has extensive experience 412 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 4: in the art market. They spent their careers in galleries, 413 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 4: auction houses, dealers, basically every area of the art market 414 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,360 Speaker 4: you could imagine. So they have an extensive network of 415 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 4: art contacts globally, which actually give gives us a big 416 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 4: advantage because a lot of a lot of people assume 417 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 4: that all of the transactions that happen in the art 418 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 4: market that happen at auction. And the reason why people 419 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 4: assume that very often is because auctions are the things 420 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 4: that you read and hear about it. 421 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 3: They're like this auctioned office, right, yeah, exactly. 422 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 4: Well, believe it or not, most of the transactions in 423 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 4: the art market don't actually happen at auction. They happen 424 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 4: privately and if you're wondering, well, how come you don't 425 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 4: hear about them? Because they happen privately. Don't hear about them? 426 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 5: Know, the whole different world. 427 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,679 Speaker 4: So we have the benefit because of our extensive network 428 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 4: of working with a lot of collectors directly, and it 429 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 4: allows us the ability to bypass the auction houses. So 430 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 4: the acquisitions team buys the paintings. We have a dispositions team. 431 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 4: That's a fancy we have saying they sell the paintings, 432 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,360 Speaker 4: and the two teams basically work together to generate this performance. 433 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 3: Now here's a personal question, what's your art collection? 434 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 5: Like? 435 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 4: I can't talk about it? 436 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, because it would be kind of like I. 437 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 4: Do. I do like art, But here's what I will 438 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 4: tell you. The art that I like does not do 439 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 4: very well from an investment perspective. I'm the guy, I'm 440 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 4: the guy with that poster with the pins in the corner. 441 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 5: Do you buy based on what you like? 442 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 4: Yes? 443 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 3: Okay, not based on what's going to bring the biggest thing. 444 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 4: That's exactly right. So again, what master Works does. We're 445 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 4: focused on good investment opportunities. Okay, nobody says, oh, we 446 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,040 Speaker 4: should buy that piece because it looks really nice. That 447 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 4: concept doesn't sause it's a. 448 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 3: Hard for me to determine. 449 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: I know people who really collect art, and they all 450 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: know about like the up and coming artists who the 451 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: value is going to. But I have no idea how 452 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 1: you're supposed to be able to tell that. But I'm 453 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: sure that you guys have people that can say, Okay, 454 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: we're going to invest in this. This artist is about 455 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: to blow up and be really big. 456 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 4: And so we use a lot of data to make 457 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 4: our investment decisions. And I know every time I say that, 458 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 4: I know people are always going to scratch their head 459 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 4: and wonder, you're talking about art. These are things that 460 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 4: go on the wall in a museum. What do you 461 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 4: mean data? But the reason nobody's ever used data to 462 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 4: invest in the art market is because nobody ever had 463 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 4: the data to do it. Right. If you don't have 464 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 4: the data, why would you even use it? You don't 465 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 4: have it. With us, we put together all of that 466 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,880 Speaker 4: data and we kind of analyze it, honestly, the same 467 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 4: way that a lot of professional investors analyze data to 468 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 4: pick which stocks they want to invest in. It's not 469 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 4: that different from what we're doing. The only difference is 470 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 4: we're not talking about stocks, we're talking about paintings. 471 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:00,479 Speaker 3: It's not a sexy emotion. 472 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 4: It's yep. Yeah, we're very objective the whole. 473 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,679 Speaker 5: Thing about art right now, and it's probably always been 474 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 5: like this. I feel like it's such becoming a bigger 475 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 5: part of pop culture where we talk about it and 476 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 5: we're interested in I feel like more people are starting 477 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 5: to be interested in buying and collecting and learning about 478 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:16,160 Speaker 5: this world. 479 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 2: Yes, one thing they'll really like about master Works is 480 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 2: I haven't done my appointment yet. I signed them, but 481 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 2: I haven't gone through the time for the appointment yet. 482 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 2: The newsletter is awesome. I'm like learning so much. They 483 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 2: send this like daily or weekly ye newsletter that teaches 484 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 2: you what paintings are hot. 485 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 4: And there's there's a very big educational component to what 486 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 4: we do and it's fascinating and I honestly, I think 487 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 4: we have a responsibility to provide that education too, because 488 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 4: you know, you can imagine what do you think would 489 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 4: be easier for us to do to just tell people 490 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 4: art is a great investment you should invest in it, 491 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,479 Speaker 4: or to actually provide them with an education about all 492 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 4: the things they're investing in. Obviously it's easier for us 493 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 4: not to even bother with the education piece. But that's 494 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 4: extraordinarly irresponsible because of what it is that we're talking about. 495 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 2: Right. 496 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 4: Art has been this thing that humans have been involved 497 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 4: in for centuries in so many different ways. Right, it's 498 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 4: a way for us to express ourselves. Certain artists they 499 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 4: kind of portray certain themes that are important to them. 500 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 4: There is a lot to art that's not even just 501 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 4: investment oriented. So we view it as a huge responsibility 502 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 4: for us not only to provide yes, attractive returns for investors, 503 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 4: because that's ultimately why they're investing, but to provide them 504 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 4: with an education so that they understand what it is 505 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 4: that they're investing in in the first place. 506 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: Well, Ellen, I got to ask you about NFTs then, yeah, 507 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: is that something that master Works has also offered up 508 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: for people to invest in? 509 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 3: And what are your thoughts on that? 510 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 4: So I can tell you, do you have any your. 511 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 3: Reaction with you? 512 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 2: Guys got to stop asking about this personal. 513 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 4: Fun It's fine. I'll take anything. The thing about NFTs, 514 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 4: So I'll tell you that before the NFT market collapsed, 515 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 4: around the time that crypto did. Before that, when we 516 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 4: would get questions about NFTs, and we would say, you know, 517 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,959 Speaker 4: in a lot of ways, it's always going to be 518 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 4: really hard, if not impossible, for us to make NFTs 519 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,520 Speaker 4: available as an investment, because they're completely the opposite of 520 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 4: what we're actually doing, right, if you just think about 521 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 4: this for a second, So any painting that we're making available, 522 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 4: every one of those paintings is unique. It is the 523 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 4: only one of its kind in existence, right, which automatically 524 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 4: means it's very attractive as an investment because supply is 525 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 4: ultimately capped. It's the only one of its it's original, 526 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 4: it's the only one you know, it's got a lot 527 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 4: of history, a lot of appreciation behind it, it's well known, 528 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 4: so on and so forth. That's a painting you talk 529 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 4: about NFTs, and because they're very digitally oriented things, it's 530 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 4: hard to have the same sort of supply dynamic that 531 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 4: you have in the art market. You can't really have 532 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 4: that with NFTs, right because ultimately, anything that's digital, there 533 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 4: can be infinite amount of it. So, and I brought 534 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 4: up what happened before the NFT market collapsed, is because 535 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 4: when we talked about our skepticism about NFTs from an 536 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 4: investment perspective, before the market collapsed. A lot of people 537 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 4: actually thought we were crazy. We were often accused of 538 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 4: being dinosaurs. Dinosaurs of course, meaning like, oh, you guys 539 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,239 Speaker 4: are so old school because you're buying paintings that you 540 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 4: can touch and put on your wall. That is so old. 541 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 4: But then ultimately the NFT market collapse, right, and a 542 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 4: lot of NFT and crypto investors ended up eventually coming 543 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 4: to us to invest in the paintings after that, And 544 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,120 Speaker 4: what we realized is it sort of helped the case 545 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 4: that we were making for a long time that we 546 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 4: weren't really sure what would make an NFT a really 547 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 4: good investment, and then finally when it panned out for us, No, 548 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 4: they didn't call us dinosaurs anymore. 549 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: Now board NFTs in the master Works all right, well, listen, 550 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: we do really appreciate you for coming. This is so 551 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 1: interesting to me as a person who does I really 552 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: am always trying to learn more about art, and I 553 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: have been doing my own things, so I feel like 554 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: this could be something that's really fun for me too 555 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: to learn about. 556 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 5: Thank you. 557 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 2: We're going to have you back and tell us how 558 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 2: can people find you? 559 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 4: I love it where if you go to masterworks dot 560 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 4: com you can schedule an appointment. You can create an 561 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 4: account if the whole process is actually very seamless. 562 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: This master, we were at Hail Harper's house and in Detroit, 563 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: and he has a lot of amazing, uh pieces of 564 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: art there. 565 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 3: He has a Michelan time that one is so amazing art. Yeah, 566 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 3: he really does, and so it was fascinating to me. 567 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: He wants to make his mansion in Detroit into like 568 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: a museum, and he has so much art already, so 569 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: he's been like doing his collecting and everything. But something 570 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: like this I think a lot of people would be 571 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: interested in. And even just get in the newsletter first 572 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: so you can feel more comfortable. 573 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 2: You can tell him that you're own your pieces of Picasso. 574 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 3: Good, I have a Banksy master. 575 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,439 Speaker 1: That's okay, all right, Allan, thank you so much for 576 00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:03,679 Speaker 1: joining us conversation master Works. It's Wealth Wednesday one