1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants huddle on Giants 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: dot Com. 3 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 2: We go here, we go on the Giants Mobile. 4 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: Let him in there, Let's go. Part of the Giants 5 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: Podcast Network. 6 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 2: Welcome to the news edition of the Giants Little Podcast. 7 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 2: John Schmolke with you today from Pro Football focused front 8 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 2: of the program, the one Only Sam Monson, Sam, what's 9 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 2: going on man, Good to see you. 10 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: Thanks, Ia, I'm doing well. 11 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 2: How about you doing great? Last time we spoke, dude 12 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 2: was at the NFL Combine before the Giants embarked on 13 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 2: their offseason. We kind of talked about what they should do. 14 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 2: You recently had an article up on PFF talking about 15 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 2: each team's offseason, how you grated them, and give us 16 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 2: the lowdown. What you think of the Giants offseason. 17 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the Giants have had a really good 18 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 1: off season. Obviously, I think most people would acknowledge that 19 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: they overachieved last year, you know, relative to expectations and 20 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: probably relative to how good the team actually was. So 21 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 1: this was a big off season to make sure that 22 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: the team in twenty twenty three can actually meet the 23 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 1: raised expectations that the last season will have in evitably brought. So, 24 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: you know, I think free agency and when you fold 25 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: in the trade for Darren Waller into that kind of 26 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: area free agency, I think they added a decent amount 27 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: of decent volume of veteran talent to keep the overall 28 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: talent level moving in the right direction. And I think 29 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: their draft was excellent. You know, John Michael Schmidz in 30 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,639 Speaker 1: the second round was a player that was being mocked 31 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: to them in the first round a lot, including by 32 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: you know, the official Giants Twitter account and those kinds 33 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: of things. So to end up with him in the 34 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: second round, getting another player that was really highly rated 35 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: with that first round pick is you know, a fantastic outcome, 36 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: and there were a few teams that had that kind 37 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: of dynamic at play. You know, They've got a guy 38 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: in the second that was being matched to them a 39 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: lot in the first round with pre mock drafts, and 40 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: then Jalen Hyatt I think in the third round is 41 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: a great talent like a lot of those Tennessee guys. 42 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: Where it was Jalen Hiyatt Hendon Hooker. There were a 43 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: lot of questions because of that offense and how difficult 44 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: it is to project it to what they're going to 45 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: have to do at the NFL level, and a lot 46 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: of them were kind of getting first round hype at 47 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: various points in the offseason, and there's always sort of 48 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 1: it's really difficult to make that kind of case coming 49 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: from that offense. But in the third you know, he's 50 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 1: an absolute steal given the talent that he brings to 51 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: the table and the speed and the things that we 52 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:21,399 Speaker 1: know he can do well. 53 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, even Tilman I think went a little bit later 54 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 2: than a lot of people thought too, So you're right. 55 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 2: I think teams were a little bit reticent about that, 56 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 2: and we'll hit on the drafts a little bit. I 57 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 2: don't get back to Waller because to me, Sam that 58 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 2: really and we'll get to Daniel Jones. If you're looking 59 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 2: for offensive improvement this year, I think that's the trade 60 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 2: that has to work out, right. You know, you need 61 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 2: that number one option for the quarterback to throw the 62 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: ball to, and it doesn't necessarily have to be a 63 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 2: wide receiver, and Waller is now their number one weapon. 64 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: You want to call him a tight end receiver, however 65 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: you want to phrase it, it's fine. But Daniel Jones 66 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 2: needed a guy that he could trust to get open 67 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 2: against one on one coverage on every play, and that's 68 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 2: who they have in Waller, and I think his health 69 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,440 Speaker 2: is going to be essential to determine whether or not 70 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 2: the offense and Jones can kind of take that next 71 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 2: step as a passing offense. 72 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And you know, in a way, you're right, 73 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: his health is really important to how good this offense 74 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: is going to be. But they haven't paid an awful 75 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: lot to make it happen, so they've insulated themselves from 76 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 1: the prospect that it doesn't work out. And at least 77 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: they're not on the hook for you know that they 78 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: they haven't given up a ton in terms of trade capital. 79 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: They're not on the hook for the you know, a 80 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: giant sum of money. The Raiders effectively just got rid 81 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: of his salary. You know, there was a salary cap 82 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: dump to trade him away. So I think it's good 83 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: business and a good risk to take. Whether or not 84 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: it works out, and then the real impact is going 85 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: to be whether he stays healthy or not. But if 86 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: he does, Waller is up there with those top two 87 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: or three tight ends in the NFL in terms of 88 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: genuine game changing talents. Guys, not nobody's at Travis Kelcey's level. 89 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: I don't think but the George Kittles, Aaron Wallers, and 90 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: Mark Andrews of the world, these are guys that can 91 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: be that alpha target within an offense even if they're 92 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:07,119 Speaker 1: not wide receivers. 93 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 2: And then a wide receiver Sam they kind of threw 94 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 2: numbers at the problem, right. I think they saw with 95 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 2: the free agency market, and we talked about this as 96 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 2: the combine right the wide receiver Phrygie market's stunk, And 97 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 2: in the draft we talked about this too. I think, 98 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 2: in my opinion, the top wide receiver this year maybe 99 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 2: would have been the fifth or sixth wide receiver taken 100 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: last year, so there wasn't a true number one in 101 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 2: this wide receiver class. How do you think this is 102 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 2: gonna work at receiver with all their number I mean, 103 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 2: they've Wander Robinson, Starling Shepherd, Paris Campbell, Jamison Crowder in 104 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,039 Speaker 2: the slot, a bigger guy outside of Isaiah Hodgens, and 105 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 2: you have the speed guys outside in Slayton and Hyatt, right, 106 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: And I almost feel like, how many of these guys 107 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 2: are gonna get eighty percent of the snaps? I almost 108 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: feel like it's gonna be kind of a rotation deal 109 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 2: where they're trying to find answers at some of these spots, 110 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 2: and they hope that somebody emerges from just the large, 111 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 2: sheer number of players they've tried to throw at this problem. 112 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that was probably the only way 113 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: doing it. You're right, this was not a good off 114 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: season to be in desperate need of wide receiver help, 115 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: whether it's free agency or the draft. So the only 116 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: way of combating that is to target volume and see 117 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: if you can create the problem or resolve the problem 118 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: in the aggregate, and hope that the collection of guys 119 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: that you bring in is able to make those kinds 120 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: of plays. I also think it was important for them 121 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: to diversify a little bit. They had a lot of 122 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: players that were of a similar type of skill set 123 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: and we're all sort of focused in this one area. 124 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: So let's bring in a few different types of receivers 125 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: and again hope that we can try and create an 126 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: amalgam of a receiving core that's going to be significantly better. 127 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: Even if none of these guys is you know, a 128 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: true number one type superstar. And I think there's always 129 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: the potential that that move is still on the table, 130 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: you know, DeAndre Hopkins is still out there potentially for 131 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: trade that Denver are almost certainly going to move a 132 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: wide receiver at some point, given the ones that they have, 133 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: the addition of guys like Marvin Madams in the draft 134 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,799 Speaker 1: as well, I think there is still moves that could 135 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: be made, maybe not right now, maybe not in the 136 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: off season, but you know, into the season or even 137 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: into the future if what they have is you know, 138 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: moving in the right direction, but hasn't quite hit the 139 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: level that they needed to at some point. 140 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think you know, and the reason this 141 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 2: season is so important, Sam, in terms of the website especially, 142 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:25,840 Speaker 2: is kind of figuring out Daniel Jones and we'll get there. 143 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 2: I know Giant fans want to hear about that, but 144 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 2: it also has to do with what's going up front. 145 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 2: So I think as important as Waller is to what 146 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 2: we're doing here this year, I think the other really 147 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 2: important thing is you mentioned John Michael Schmisi has to 148 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 2: step in and be fine. Isn't to be dominant, but 149 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 2: he has to be fine. But I think the other 150 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 2: guys Evan Neil, right, and we had this conversation and 151 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 2: you have spoken a lot on these podcasts, and this 152 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 2: is the same conversation we had about Andrew Thomas after 153 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 2: his first year right where it was a struggle, right, 154 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 2: he showed some progress late. I don't think we saw 155 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 2: some of the late progress of Neil that we saw 156 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 2: from Thomas when he was a rookie. But I think 157 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 2: his progress and his movement at least to just to 158 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 2: get towards the average would go a long way. Who 159 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 2: is helping this offense because I know a lot of 160 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 2: people worried about the inside of their line, and trust me, 161 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 2: I get it that was a problem too. But right tackle, 162 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 2: especially when you're facing Michael Parsons and Montes Sweat and 163 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 2: all the guys that eagle is going to throw at 164 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,239 Speaker 2: you into Marcus Lawrence, you know, that's a real problem 165 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 2: for an offense when you're playing six games against teams 166 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 2: with really good pass rushes. 167 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: Really is. Yet, the improvement of Evan Neil is huge 168 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: to the success of this offensive line. Yeah, the interior 169 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: had a lot of work to do. I think John 170 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: Michael Schmid should go a long way towards helping that. 171 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: But if Evan Neil can take a step forward, then 172 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: all you have is potentially one problem spot on the 173 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: offensive line. You know, one of those guard spots, the 174 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,680 Speaker 1: other four positions should be fine and you can deal 175 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: with that. And if if your one problem spot is 176 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: going to be one of the guard spots, that's the 177 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: best spot to have as a weak link as well. 178 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: So if that was the way it worked, I think 179 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: that would be fantastic for New York. But it's all 180 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: contingent on Evan Neil taking that kind of step forward 181 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: in year two, and you're right, it didn't look quite 182 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: the same as it did with Andrew Thomas, and it 183 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: didn't have quite the same excuse for Andrew Thomas as well. 184 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: One of the key elements around Thomas struggling early was 185 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: they basically completely rebuilt his technique. You know, they changed 186 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: his past sets, they changed everything about how he was 187 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: going to go about pass blocking. So it made sense 188 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: that he was going to struggle early and eventually come 189 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: out of that and show the signs that, you know, 190 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: once his technique is where it needed to be and 191 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: he's got used to all those changes, he was going 192 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: to go back to being that dominant force we solve 193 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 1: from him as a prospect. Evan Neil, I don't think 194 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: I had that excuse. They didn't completely mess with his technique. 195 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 1: He just struggled, you know, And that again, that doesn't 196 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: mean that he's going to be that guy and he's 197 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: going to be bad from start to finish, but it 198 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 1: means that we don't have this ready made here. What 199 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: was the problem. We knew this was going to be 200 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: a problem, and you know it may we were going 201 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: to have to suffer through that. Whatever happened, Neil is 202 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: just going to have to come out of the other 203 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: side of early struggles, which can absolutely happen, but needs 204 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 1: to start happening now if it's going to. 205 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, as you well know, and I know 206 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 2: you guys have done studies on this. First of all, 207 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 2: progress is never linear, right, Guys can be bad for 208 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 2: a couple of years and take a huge jump that 209 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:19,439 Speaker 2: it can be bad for one year, take a huge jump. 210 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 2: But generally speaking offensive linemen, and I think the same 211 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 2: can be said for defensive tackles too. It can sometimes 212 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 2: take a year or two or three in the NFL, 213 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 2: but then to kind of hit where they're eventually going 214 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 2: to get right. I mean, I think it's a little 215 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 2: bit of a longer long learning curve at those spots, right. 216 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, I mean, year three is talked about all 217 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: the time. It's that kind of season that the young 218 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: players start to take that big leap forward, and I 219 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: think an offensive line in particular. It's true, it's maybe 220 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: more true for offensive lineman than it is for any 221 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: other position. So we may still be a year away 222 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: from seeing what we're really going to get with Evan Neil, 223 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 1: but you do need to see a significant jump in 224 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: year two to even have the confidence that you can 225 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: and you know, roll into year three with him as 226 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: the starter. Year one was rough for him. Some of 227 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: the things you saw from tape I think are encouraging 228 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: in terms of there's a lot to work with. It's 229 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,319 Speaker 1: just that people found his blocks very easy to shed. 230 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: You know, he would get locked on, he would get 231 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: in good position and then would just get tossed to 232 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: the side. For a guy as big, strong and athletic 233 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: as he is, that should be something that can be fixed. 234 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: But it does need to start, you know, happening sooner 235 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: rather than later. 236 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 2: All Right, I want to dig into some details on 237 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 2: Daniel Jones, but first let me just get your overarching 238 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 2: opinion on how the Giants handle that. Where they think 239 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 2: they are with Jones, and kind of where Jones is 240 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 2: in his career arc. 241 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was surprised, and I wouldn't have gone the 242 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: route that they win. I was surprised that they didn't 243 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: use the franchise tag on him, and I think he's 244 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: his career so far and where they are with him 245 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: is tailor made for a franchise tag. It's kind of 246 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:00,839 Speaker 1: what that exists for, which is, you know, we're not 247 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: one hundred percent sure that this guy is the long 248 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: term solution, but neither do we want to let him go. 249 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: We want that one year to figure it out. But 250 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: they the problem with that obviously is it ties you 251 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: up to a large amount of guaranteed money and salary 252 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: cap year one and locks you into that mode. They 253 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 1: obviously valued the flexibility that the franchise tag or that 254 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: the extension gave them as opposed to the franchise tag. 255 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,640 Speaker 1: It also freed up the franchise tag to be able 256 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: to use on Saquon Barkley and just generally gave them 257 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: more options. So, you know, I think they've overpaid and 258 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: been a little bit too keen to throw an extension 259 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: towards Daniel Jones without quite knowing what he is long term, 260 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: but I at least understand the reasons they did it 261 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: in terms of valuing the flexibility and the availability of 262 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 1: the franchise. TAG wants you to go that route with Jones. 263 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and like you said, they can hold on the 264 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 2: barklay and it isn't an onerous deal either where they 265 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 2: can't get at after years that they have to. But yeah, 266 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 2: now let's get into Jones specifically first. I want to 267 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 2: start here because I think a lot of the progress 268 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 2: Daniel Jones made this year had a lot to do 269 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 2: with him as a runner, and I think we kind 270 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: of touched on this at the combine, right. I mean, 271 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 2: he had thirty one explosive runs last year, and I 272 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 2: know he's the number of first down rushes. He had 273 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 2: more first down rushes Sam and this year than he 274 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 2: had in his first three years of his career combined, 275 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 2: and frankly it wasn't that close. It was more than 276 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 2: ten more this year then he's had in previous years. 277 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 2: So I think, for me and I like to take 278 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 2: on this, I think the next step for him is, Okay, 279 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 2: maybe we don't need to run him as much and 280 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 2: we can do more with throwing the football, especially on 281 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 2: third downs when so many of those scrambles kind of 282 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 2: turned third and medium third and long at the first downs. 283 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 2: You'd like to be able to do that throwing it 284 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 2: rather than running it. 285 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think we're in this world right 286 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: now in the NFL where coaches are getting this understanding 287 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: of how high a floor you can set if your 288 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: quarterback can run the ball. You know, and Justin Fields 289 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 1: showed this last year, and Jalen Hurts the previous couple 290 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: of years, and you know, Lamar Jackson a few years 291 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,040 Speaker 1: before that. We're seeing right now that if you have 292 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: a quarterback that can do special things on the ground 293 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: with the ball in his hands, it allows you to 294 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: work on a lot of other things. It buys you 295 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: time and sets a really high floor. It's difficult to 296 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: be terrible when you have that skill set. But in 297 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: order to get really good, you know, in order to 298 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: be the turned into Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson or 299 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,840 Speaker 1: Jalen Hurts last year, in order to reach that level, 300 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: you've got to get that development done as a passer. 301 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: And that's where I think Daniel Jones is right now, 302 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 1: where I don't think you necessarily want to scale back 303 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 1: his rushing threat. I think he showed that that is 304 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: a really important part of his game, but it doesn't 305 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,080 Speaker 1: mean anything if you can't get him better as a passer. 306 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 1: And as much as he looked a little bit better 307 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: overall last year, and there were certain numbers that were 308 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: different improvements, he still averaged less than seven yards per attempt, 309 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 1: you know, he still only threw for fifteen touchdowns. He 310 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: still only had seven big time throws, which for a 311 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: guy of his arm talent, is like an absurdly low number. 312 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: So these are the things we need to get better 313 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: next year. And if they don't take it significantly forward, 314 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: then you know, they might be trapped in this world 315 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: of knowing that they have a solid quarterback, but not 316 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: one that's going to take them where they need to go. 317 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent, and we'll get to the positives 318 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 2: in a second. And I think that's cutting down on turnovers. 319 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 2: But I think the question is, Sam, can you keep 320 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 2: that turnover rate where it is? And if you look 321 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 2: at either the turnover worthy play rate that you guys 322 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 2: do a great job with over at PFF, it's kind 323 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 2: of been consistent between two point seven and three percent 324 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 2: the last three years, which is kind of right in 325 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 2: the middle of the league, gets a decent number, it's fine, right, 326 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 2: But if you're gonna just be in the middle league 327 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 2: and fine, you got to have a big time thrower. 328 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 2: And I've talked to our listeners about the way you 329 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 2: guys shot big time throws of a rate higher than 330 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 2: one point four percent. And it's not like he hasn't 331 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 2: shown he can do it. He had a five percent 332 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 2: big time throw rate in twenty twenty. He had a 333 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 2: four percent big time throw rate as a rookie, So 334 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 2: it's he can do it. And my guess is that 335 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 2: in the goal of trying to cut down on the turnovers, 336 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 2: they've tried to pull him back a little bit. Now 337 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 2: I think, especially after this big contract, I think it's 338 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 2: not to let him go right and say, if you 339 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 2: throw a couple of interceptions, we'll live with that if 340 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 2: we can get more of those explosive plays out of it. 341 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: And I'm sure it was influenced by the decline in 342 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: receiving talent that he had to work with, and so 343 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 1: that lack of receivers, the group fell off the cliff. 344 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: He didn't have anybody to throw to. And I'm sure 345 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: that sort of either was part of him being pulled 346 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: into a shell or just exacerbated the problem. And I mean, 347 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: I can't think of a decline in big time throw 348 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: right like that where he's gone from five percent, which 349 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: is high, to one point four percent, which is like 350 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: off the charts low, you know, the worst in the 351 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: NFL by a distance. I can't think of another quarterback 352 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: who's sort of collapsed in terms of how often he's 353 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: going to make a big throw like that in his career. 354 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: So it's definitely the thing they need to focus on, 355 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: and receiving talent can only help. We saw, you know, 356 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: Joe Burrow year one didn't have a deep throw in 357 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: his arsenal, Like he couldn't hit a deep ball, and 358 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: he was incredible at that in college, and in year 359 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: one as a rookie, we were sort of asking, how 360 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: come Joe Burrow can't complete a deep pass? And then 361 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: you bring Jamar Chase into the equation, and all of 362 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: a sudden, there's Joe Burrow again. He's one of the 363 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 1: better deep throws in the NFL. So I'm sure is 364 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: a very tight correlation between the lack of receiving talent. 365 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: Daniel Jones has had to work with and those big 366 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: plays just disappearing from his skill set or from his tape. 367 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: But that is something that has to change this year. 368 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: And you know, even if he doesn't have an elite 369 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: wide receiver, I think that they've improved the group enough 370 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: that they're going to need to see more of those 371 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: plays from him, and he's going to need to just 372 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: put some faith in the guys that he does have, 373 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: even if they're still not you know, where you would 374 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: want a wide receiver group to be. 375 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and even beyond the deep throw Sam, something we've 376 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 2: talked about is just being more aggressive I think in 377 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 2: the middle of the field, in those intermediate areas. I 378 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: think Darren Waller will helped Adud a lot. A couple 379 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 2: other the advanced stats that you guys carry along, which 380 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 2: I think are very handy in this situation. You know, 381 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 2: he had the lowest percentage of his yards coming through 382 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,239 Speaker 2: the air this past year, under fifty percent. He's been 383 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 2: fifty four percent or higher in all of his other 384 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 2: three years. His average depth of target right is just 385 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 2: six point six, which is much lower he was over 386 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 2: eight the first two years of his career, and as 387 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 2: short as the six percentage almost fifty seven percent of 388 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 2: his passes have gone short of the first down marker, 389 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 2: which is three percent lower than what he was the 390 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 2: two years prior. So I think as much as it 391 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:36,679 Speaker 2: is exposive plays, and that's essentially the Giants did not 392 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 2: having enough of those last year. I think, just attacking 393 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,719 Speaker 2: those intermediate levels of the field and just feel uncomfortable 394 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 2: going into some short areas and some tight areas and 395 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,000 Speaker 2: coverage where where maybe the last couple of years he 396 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 2: wasn't to your point, because of the receivers that they had. 397 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, and these are things that are not necessarily inherent 398 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 1: in you know, Brian dave Ball offense, which you know, 399 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,920 Speaker 1: people might think Daveell is very good at gaming guys open, 400 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: he's very good at maximizing some of these underneath throws. 401 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: But Josh Allen averaged over nine yards in each of 402 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,399 Speaker 1: his last few seasons. In a Brian Daball offense, this 403 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: is not a system that is going to force you 404 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: into having a really low average depth of the target 405 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 1: and throwing everything short of the sticks and you know, 406 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: taking that kind of conservative looking statistical profile. There are 407 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: offenses out there that would do that, but I don't 408 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: think Dave Balls is one of them. So what we 409 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: are seeing is something that is driven by either Daniel 410 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: Jones or a personnel issue as opposed to a scheme 411 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: that's boxing him into this world of being too conservative. 412 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it's something that they're going to 413 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 2: have to figure out. I think the good news though, 414 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 2: Sam and we talked about it. The tournament rate's fine. 415 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 2: Like this whole thing that Daniel Jones is the turnover machine, 416 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 2: that's just frankly not true anymore. 417 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: No, I mean, you're right, it's middle of the pack, right, 418 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 1: It's not an incredibly low number. He's not one of 419 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: the most risk averse quarterbacks in the NFL, which, to 420 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: be fair, you might wanted to skew it in that 421 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:02,880 Speaker 1: direction a little bit more. Give him the very low 422 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 1: average at the target and the fact that all these 423 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 1: passes are short of the sticks. So it probably is 424 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: higher than it should be for a guy that's that's 425 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: got his kind of profile in terms of target map. 426 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: But it's not egregious. It's not extremely high. If his turn, 427 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: if his big time throw Ray jumped into the middle 428 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: of the back as well, it would be a non factor. 429 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, one quick one of the defense before you get 430 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 2: the kind of big picture NFC eas stuff here, Sam, 431 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 2: you know, wing Warndale systems unique. I think this is 432 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 2: going to be real test this year. You go from 433 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:33,960 Speaker 2: playing the AFC South with the Giants went four and 434 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 2: oh last year, to play in the AFC East, and 435 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 2: those are very different divisions with very different sets of 436 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 2: quarterbacks and offenses. And I think how the Giants kind 437 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 2: of just playing just a tougher schedule overall in terms 438 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 2: of the offensive you're facing, I think is going to 439 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 2: be really telling in terms of how they've gone about 440 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 2: improving this defense. You know, they added Bobby Okaarake. They 441 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:55,680 Speaker 2: need to improve their run defense. The Eagles went for 442 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 2: over two hundred on them twice last year. I know 443 00:19:58,160 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 2: running is not that important, but it is. When you 444 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 2: give up two fifty in the game to the Eagles, 445 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 2: it's kind of hard to win those. And you know 446 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 2: you had Deonty Banks the rookie corner. You hope your 447 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 2: two young pass rushers get a little bit better. But 448 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 2: just your role thoughts on Wink and kind of what 449 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 2: the challengers are going to be this year and moving 450 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 2: forward with him at the Helm on defense. 451 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I last year. It was kind of 452 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: amazing at times, the degree to which he would stick 453 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: to that aggressive, you know, blitz happy defense with the 454 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: players that he had on the back end. You know, normally, 455 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: if you're left with a bunch of guys that you 456 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: don't think and hold up particularly well one on one coverage, 457 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: you're going to dial back that aggressiveness. You're going to 458 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: try and insulate those guys from the kind of island 459 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 1: coverage that you would be exposing them to. And the 460 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 1: Giants never did that. They didn't. I don't care who 461 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: we have in the back end. This is the defense. 462 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 1: We're going to play aggressive and we're going to go 463 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: after them. 464 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 2: And by the way, they didn't give up that many 465 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 2: big plays. 466 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,719 Speaker 1: Yeah no, And it's this isn't just the Giants thing. 467 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 1: It worked in Baltimore as well. They got decimated by 468 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 1: injuries a few times, and Wink stays with what he does. 469 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: He doesn't dial it back, he doesn't go into a 470 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: Michelle when those injuries strike. But this year, I think 471 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: they should be better equipped with the players, with the 472 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,239 Speaker 1: personnel that they have on the back end, I think 473 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 1: they should have a much better ability to let those 474 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: guys go and play on an island and have you know, 475 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: really good results off the back of it. Deontay Banks, 476 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: I think is a perfect corner for the system. Rookie corners. 477 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: It's always difficult for those guys to hit the ground 478 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 1: running and play really well right away. Sauce Gardner accepted, 479 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: So you know, maybe next year isn't the year we 480 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: get to see the real dividends from that. But ultimately 481 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: I think he'll prove to be a perfect player for 482 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 1: the system. But the risk is you're facing a dramatically 483 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: better slated pass offenses, so it's going to be tough 484 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: for them to replicate what they did last year. 485 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,719 Speaker 2: All Right, NFC East, I'm going to take Philadelphia out 486 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 2: of the question here. What do you think that? I mean, 487 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 2: they're just still dark good. I mean, I don't know 488 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 2: what else we could say about them, But what do 489 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 2: you think the chances are they close in on Dallas 490 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 2: a little bit here? But I think it's hard to 491 00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,719 Speaker 2: argue last your Dallas still wasn't a tier above them. 492 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 2: Can they at least close that distance this year and 493 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 2: be more competitive with Dallas? 494 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: I think they can. I mean, you know, we've expected 495 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 1: Dallas to be really good for years and they it 496 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 1: always sort of unravels a little bit for them. I 497 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: don't know that they had one of the best off 498 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 1: seasons into the world. I like a couple of the 499 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: moves they made, the veteran moves, in particular bringing into 500 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: the fun Gilmore, Brandon and Cooks. Those are moves that 501 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: should make an impact year one. Cooks is always good, 502 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: doesn't matter who he plays for what offense, and in particular, 503 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: they don't need him to be a number one. They've 504 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: already got Ceedee Lamb. Cooks can just take the attention 505 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: off him. That should be really good for that offense. 506 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: Gilmore showed last year he's still got juice, he can 507 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 1: still play and now doesn't have to be a number 508 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 1: one corner. You know, he can be a secondary guy 509 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: to Trayvon Diggs. So I think Dallas should be good. 510 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: It's a really good roster top to bottom. We'll see 511 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: what changes are gonna come from Kellen Moore leaving and 512 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: Mike McCarthy kind of taking me over if that makes 513 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: them better, worse, or stays the same. 514 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 2: Lots of slant flat, Sam, lots of slant flat. 515 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: But it's really going to come down to the Giants, 516 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: I think more than Dallas. The Cowboys are probably going 517 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,639 Speaker 1: to stay more or less where they were, and then 518 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: we get to see whether the Giants' moves have made 519 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 1: them better or just allow them the tread water, you know, 520 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: relative to their last season's kind of overachieving. 521 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,199 Speaker 2: All right, before we wrap up NFC in general, right, 522 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 2: you had seven playoff teams, You have the four division winners. 523 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 2: I think we both think Dallas is going to be 524 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 2: in So you got five teams there. Every year, about 525 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 2: half the playoff teams in the NFL change. It's very 526 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 2: tough to kind of hang in there. So how do 527 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,199 Speaker 2: you compare the Giants in that second tier of teams 528 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,600 Speaker 2: after the ones we just discussed Detroit, Seattle. I don't 529 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 2: know what you think about Green Bay with Jordan Love. 530 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 2: I don't know what the NFC South's going to look like. 531 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 2: Who's winning that division? I have no idea. So where 532 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 2: do you think they kind of stand with that next 533 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 2: group trying to vie for those other wildcard spots? 534 00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, once you get past the first couple 535 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 1: of teams in the NFC, I think it's a it's 536 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: total open season, like anybody can emerge from that pack 537 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 1: can either be good or terrible. You know, you could 538 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: see almost any of that second group of teams have 539 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: an awful year and be nowhere near playoff contention, or 540 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: you could see them ending up as the number four 541 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: seed and you know, being as good as anybody record wise. 542 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,880 Speaker 1: So I think the Giants are absolutely in that mix. 543 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: But they're also one of the most obvious teams for that. 544 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: You know, in order for a bunch of new teams 545 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 1: to come into the playoffs, a bunch are going to 546 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 1: slip out. So the Giants, Minnesota or another one of 547 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: those obvious teams for prime for regression. So I think 548 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: they're absolutely in the mix, and they could easily repeat 549 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,400 Speaker 1: last year and do the same thing. But they would 550 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,120 Speaker 1: also be one of the first teams you would list 551 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 1: in terms of a vulnerable playoff team from last year 552 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,400 Speaker 1: who could easily, you know, slip out of the playoffs 553 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: this season for one of these surprise teams. 554 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 2: Who's your favorite NFC East team or NFC team in general, 555 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 2: not East specifically, kind of in that mix beyond those 556 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 2: top teams we talked about that you think could really 557 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 2: take a step forward this year. Two teams, however, you 558 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 2: want to approach it. 559 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think Detroit is the obvious one. 560 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,919 Speaker 1: You know, they were improving at the end of last season. 561 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: I really like their offseason. I think they've done a 562 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 1: really good job, even if you want to, you know, 563 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,199 Speaker 1: quibble about the first round running back Jamier Gibbs at 564 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: number twelve. Like I like overall the players that they 565 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 1: brought in. I think they're a good players and b 566 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: can actually make early impacts, you know, which aren't always 567 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,160 Speaker 1: things that go hand in hand. And then their free 568 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 1: agency I think they patch a lot of holes as well. 569 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: So I think the Lions are moving in the right direction. 570 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: And we're right on the precipice last year anyway, and 571 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: now you know Rogers isn't in the NFC North anymore. 572 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: Minnesota might not be any better or could be significantly 573 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 1: worse than a year ago. The Lions could easily end 574 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: up winning that division and being, you know, one of 575 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 1: the favorites in the NFC. 576 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 2: All right, final question, this is from my cohort who 577 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 2: always yells at me. I don't understand how they track 578 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,159 Speaker 2: big time throws. What does a big time throw mean? 579 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 2: So I'm gonna ask you. Sam. We talked about big 580 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 2: time throws at Daniel Jones, what makes a throw a 581 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 2: big time throw when you guys do your gratings and 582 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 2: you do your track. 583 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's no one thing. So generally, you know, throws 584 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: deeper downfield are going to be more likely to be 585 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: big time throws. But it isn't simply a distance thing. 586 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: It's there the highest graded throws PFF makes, and the 587 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: PFF grading scale is generally starts off at zero, which 588 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 1: is average expected, and then anything above zero gets graded positively, 589 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,639 Speaker 1: anything below zero gets graded negatively. So it's essentially a 590 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: throw relative to expectation. You know, did you make a 591 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: more difficult, more advanced throw than simply dropping the ball 592 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: off to a running back on a screen, which effectively 593 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: you or I could achieve? Right, And distance is a 594 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: big part of that. The coverage is going to be 595 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: a big part of that. How tight was the coverage, 596 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,080 Speaker 1: how tight was the window he was naming at? Did 597 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: it pick up a first down? Did it score a touchdown? 598 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,920 Speaker 1: You know, were the results above and beyond what you 599 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: would expect as well? So the answer is there's no 600 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: easy answer to that. But you know, generally speaking, the 601 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,920 Speaker 1: degree of difficulty and the degree of positive turn positive 602 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: results in that play are going to push the grade 603 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: at higher. 604 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 2: All right, Sam, tell the folks where they can find 605 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 2: you anything. You've come out on PFF the podcast. Everything 606 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 2: you're doing, Tell everybody about it. 607 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, the PFF NFL podcast, myself and Steve. You can 608 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: find that anywhere you can get your podcasts or our 609 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: YouTube channel. That's where all our stuff is. 610 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,360 Speaker 2: I gotta admit I did not get through the full 611 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 2: two hours of the Expansion Draft. 612 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 1: That was only show one. There was the second part. 613 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 2: I have it in vit Q with the draft. It 614 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 2: was fun and you guys enjoyed. You know what, guy 615 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 2: I liked it in the drafts in like twenty sixteen 616 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 2: that hasn't played well at all, but I'm gonna pick 617 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,520 Speaker 2: him anyway. That guy. 618 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: It was slim pickings with the actual players that were 619 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: exposed in the expansion Draft, SOHO got down to pretty 620 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 1: thin reasons for signing people pretty quickly. 621 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,479 Speaker 2: Absolutely, anyway, guys, go check it out the PFFNFL podcast. 622 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 2: It is excellent, Sam, Steve who's been on the show before, 623 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 2: Trevor Chipson as well. Over the course of the year, Sam, 624 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 2: good stuff. Man, enjoy your off season. I know we 625 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 2: got to kind of recharge our batteries here for the season. 626 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 2: Please do so, and we'll talk to you that in 627 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 2: the road. Bud, you too, Take it easy Monson PFF. 628 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on the Johnsttle Podcast. We'll see 629 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 2: you next time.