1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. Rewind, this is Rob Lamb. 2 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: Today you were going to be airing an episode that 3 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: originally came out four twelve, twenty twenty four. It is 4 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty one's Dragon Slayer. We referenced this one again 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: recently when we're talking about the two thousand Dungeons and 6 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: Dragons film and how you know, of course nothing can 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: equal the majesty of the Dragons and Dragonslayer, So it 8 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,840 Speaker 1: seems like a good enough reason to dive right back 9 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: into this episode. 10 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 2: We hope you enjoy. 11 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 3: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio. 12 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: Hey you welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb. 13 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 4: And this is Joe McCormick. And today on Weird House Cinema, 14 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 4: we are going to be talking about the nineteen eighty 15 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 4: one ant to see adventure Dragon Slayer. This was a 16 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 4: first for me. I'd heard about this movie for years. 17 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 4: In fact, a good friend of mine has long been recommending. 18 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 4: It was the first time I ever got to see it, 19 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 4: and I was mighty impressed. What an event this was. 20 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, this is one too that I've heard about 21 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: for ages, especially in reference to the titular dragon, so 22 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: I knew it was gonna have great dragon effects. And 23 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: so it's been on the to watch list for a 24 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 1: very long time, probably since I was a kid, and 25 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: I would see promos for it on cable for cable 26 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: viewings of it that I never never got around to 27 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: watching it, and ultimately, I think I'm glad that I waited. 28 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 2: Now. 29 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: The reason that we ended up selecting Dragon Slayer is because, 30 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: as many of you might have noticed, on Monday, there 31 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people got to witness a total solar 32 00:01:56,160 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: eclipse and that got us thinking, well, we should watch 33 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: an eclipse movie. And when you start looking around for 34 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: films that feature a total solar eclipse in a meaningful way, 35 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: there's really not a lot to choose from, And for 36 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: my money, it basically comes down to two choices. You 37 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: can do nineteen eighty one's Dragon Slayer or you can 38 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: do nineteen eighty five's Lady Hawk. 39 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 4: Now, Rob, as much as I can see why you 40 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 4: would be drawn to Dragon Slayer, I am quite perplexed 41 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 4: that you picked the non Rutger Hower option of the two. 42 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I think Lady Hawk is a fine film too, 43 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: and they're actually actually very interesting films to compare in 44 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: a couple of different ways, because on one hand, both films 45 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: cast organized religion in a suspicious or antagonistic light. Both 46 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 1: films immersis in a setting that is supposed to feel 47 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: realistically medieval or dark ages to some extent with it, 48 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 1: but with at least some magic. In other words, we're 49 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: not dealing with a high fantasy, non Earth world. We're 50 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: not dealing with worlds where magic can just do anything. 51 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: And both films center around a fresh faced protagonist. And 52 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,519 Speaker 1: of course both films prominently feature a total solar eclipse. 53 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 4: Hmmm, that's interesting. Now it's been a while since I 54 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 4: saw Lady Hawk. I don't even recall what role the 55 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 4: eclipse plays in the plot, but I do like that 56 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 4: you bring up the kind of interesting fact that they're 57 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 4: fantasy movies that seem to be set roughly within real history, 58 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 4: like I believe we're supposed to interpret the or Land, 59 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 4: the setting of Dragon Slayer as somewhere within like post 60 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 4: Roman Britain, like say Britain in the six hundred's ad 61 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 4: or something. 62 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 63 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very much the sense that I got from it. 64 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: It is a world in which magic and sort of 65 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: traditional pagan if you will, beliefs are seeping away from 66 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: the world, just as this new religion of Christianity is 67 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: seeping in. And there's this idea that magic can still 68 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: be potent, but it is uncertain, like magic is leaving 69 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: the world. And this again, this is not an everything 70 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: as possible world of high fantasy magic, and so legitimate 71 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:12,120 Speaker 1: magic in Dragon Slayer shares an uneasy space right alongside trickery, 72 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: right alongside superstition and the teachings of this new alien 73 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: religion that's being brought in by outsiders. 74 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 4: And in the end getting all the credit for what 75 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 4: our good, virtuous pagan magicians do. 76 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: That's right. So anyway, Yeah, no shade on Lady Hawk. 77 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: Lady Hawk is a lot of fun. 78 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: That one is a. 79 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: Fun adventure film with a compelling romantic curse at the 80 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,600 Speaker 1: center of it. But Dragon Slayer is its own spectacle. 81 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: I mean is it's certainly a creature lover's favorite, dazzling 82 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: cinematography and effects, but also I feel like there is 83 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: a lot more to Dragon Slayer than just the creature. 84 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:52,799 Speaker 1: I think I maybe just had the little wrong opinion 85 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: of it for all these years, where I thought that 86 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: maybe it was kind of a creature only flick, like, 87 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: all right, you're going to be bored the rest of 88 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: the time, but the impressive And there are plenty of 89 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: movies like that, and we've probably watched films like that 90 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: for Weird House before. 91 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, as far as the human drama goes in Dragon Slayer, 92 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 4: I would say I have some mixed thoughts, but they're 93 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 4: mostly positive. On the downside, I will admit that most 94 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 4: of the characterizations in this movie are not very deep. Like, 95 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 4: you know, you're not getting deeply drawn characters. The characters 96 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 4: are closer to archetypes, but in the immediate scenes they're in, 97 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 4: I would say often the characters behave in rather interesting 98 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 4: and unexpected and nuanced ways, Like the villains aren't as 99 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 4: villainous as you might expect, and you can kind of 100 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 4: see things from their point of view, and the heroes 101 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 4: sometimes do things that you wouldn't quite expect from a 102 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 4: story like this. 103 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, when when the characters feel not so deep, it 104 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: is often in a way where you're like, I would 105 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 1: like to know more about this character. I feel like 106 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: there's more depth here that the movie. You know, it's 107 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: just it's just not a film that's going to explore 108 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: those additional depths, but like this feeling that those depths 109 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: are present in this character, Like the characters feel real 110 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: and nuanced enough that it may be there, which is 111 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: not the case with other. 112 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 2: Films that we've talked about. 113 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 1: Yes, I do want to mention just a few reviews 114 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: of note, because this film does has long had its 115 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: supporters and its fans. I looked in Weldon's Psychotronic Encyclopedia 116 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: film and this particular write up is by Bob Martin 117 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: and not Welden, but he urges readers and I think 118 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: this is written around the time of its release not 119 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: to dismiss it as kid stuff just because it's a 120 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: Disney co production and says, quote, it's got true medieval grit. 121 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 4: I mean, this is a rather dark and grimy film. Yeah. 122 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, that maybe doesn't sound as impressive now because we 123 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 1: had you know, however, many seasons of Game of Thrones. 124 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: Everybody's seen a lot of gritty medieval fantasy at this point, 125 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: but at the time it was certainly like a breath 126 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: of fresh, gritty air. 127 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 4: I suppose I would say it's not as dark as 128 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 4: Game of Thrones, Like there is not the violence in 129 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 4: it is not as cold as that, but it's a 130 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 4: good bit darker than your standard fantasy fair certainly in 131 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 4: nineteen eighty one. 132 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's still PG, I have to stress now. Roger 133 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: Ebert gave it three stars and raved over the Dragon 134 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: over and also over the old Wizard, and it's overall dark, 135 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: grimy tone and look, and he said, here is a 136 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: movie with the courage to be grungy. 137 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 4: Now, I wonder if this is at all a reaction to, 138 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 4: or maybe not a reaction to, because I think it 139 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 4: was the same year. The movie Excalibur is from nineteen 140 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 4: eighty one, which this has come up on the show before. 141 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 4: I've still never seen it, but my impression of it 142 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 4: is that it is just an almost offensively gleaming film 143 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 4: or everything is just very polished and shiny and high 144 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 4: fantasy veneer, whereas, yeah, this movie is gross and slimy, 145 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 4: and a lot of the locations are cramped, dark, dank 146 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 4: caves and rooms with like weird liquids bubbling in them, 147 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 4: and it's just like it's just a movie where everybody 148 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 4: looks like they smell bad. 149 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. 150 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: Ebert specifically mentioned ex Caliber in that review, because yeah, 151 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: ex Caliber is shiny, super gleaming, blinding armor. But also 152 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: we have to keep in mind that ex Caliber, which 153 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: which I have a lot of fond memories off is all, 154 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: is not quite set in the real world. It's set 155 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: in kind of It's set in a mythic world. Is 156 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: the mythic world of authorian legend, you know. So it's 157 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: it's a maybe just a step or two removed from 158 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: any kind of realistic real world, you know, magical setting. 159 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 2: Now. I mentioned Game of Thrones earlier. George R. R. 160 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: Martin ranked it number five on his top ten fantasy 161 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: movies of all time, just below Lady Hawk, The Wizard 162 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: of Oz, The Princess Bride, and The Lord. 163 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 2: Of the Rings trilogy. 164 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 4: Okay, you mean he raked Dragonslay or not. 165 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 2: Ex Dragon Slayer. 166 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: I don't think ex Caliber made this particular list. 167 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 2: I mean not that. 168 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: I mean I could also see him being of an 169 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: ex Caliber fan, because I do remember in the books 170 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: a lot of descriptions of very brightly colored armor. It 171 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: seemed to be very important to him to make sure 172 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: that armor wasn't boring looking. And it's not boring looking 173 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: at EXCaliber. 174 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 4: That's interesting. So he placed it behind Lady Hawk. But 175 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 4: you know, I can see these other entries. Yeah, the 176 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 4: Wizard of Oz, Yeah, Lord of the Rings, that makes sense. 177 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, Princess Bride. Everybody loves the Princess Pride. So yeah, 178 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 1: under understandable. You can find that and just do a 179 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: search for George R. Martin top ten fantasy films and 180 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: you'll easily find the list we're referring to. And then finally, 181 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: I'll say, you'd be hard pressed to find a bigger 182 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: fan of this film than director Guiermean del Toro. I'll 183 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: be mentioning several things that he had to say about 184 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: this film and his connections to it as we proceed. 185 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, certainly I can imagine that del Toro is 186 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 4: here for the dragon. He's like, when do we get 187 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 4: to the dragon? And this movie really does have an 188 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 4: amazing dragon, especially for the time it was created. But 189 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 4: this is an awesome looking dragon, but not just looking. 190 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 4: I want to stress that what's so great about the 191 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 4: dragon in this movie is that even before you see it, 192 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 4: its presence is signaled through you know, different kinds of 193 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 4: like point of view shots and sound effects and the 194 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 4: suggestion of it looming out of view in certain scenes 195 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 4: in a really powerful, ominous way. That is just one 196 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 4: of the great monster presences in any movie I've ever seen. 197 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 4: And I really like that the dragon in this movie 198 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 4: is a monster, is not just a I don't want 199 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:52,719 Speaker 4: to say just a lot of the dragons were used 200 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 4: to lately, see more of the elegant, intelligent fantasy dragon variety, 201 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 4: you know, like almost kind of a higher being. This dragon, 202 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 4: it might be cunning, but it is. It's not like 203 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 4: a talking dragon. It's not a nice dragon. It's not 204 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 4: a noble dragon. This is a nasty, disgusting monster that 205 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 4: wants human blood. 206 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 2: That's right. 207 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the dragon is amazing. The presentation of the 208 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: dragon is amazing, and I mean not just the full 209 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: blown effects, but like the fine art of presenting a 210 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 1: monster in a film, of teasing it out of you know, 211 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: early on in the film we don't even see it yet. 212 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: We see instead, like carved representations of the dragon in 213 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: these dank, you know, desolate settings that set the tone 214 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: and prepare the imagination. 215 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 2: For the monstrosity to come. All right. 216 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: In terms of elevator pitches for this one, mine is 217 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,719 Speaker 1: pretty simple. It's look, no one likes having to make 218 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: a yearly blood sacrifice. To a dragon. 219 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 4: However, however, what if we did it twice a year. 220 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I said, if you come into this just 221 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: for the dragon, you won't be disappointed. But there's a 222 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: lot of other stuff I think to keep your mind busy, 223 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 1: and we'll get into that as we proceed. Well, let's 224 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: go ahead and listen to some trailer audio here to 225 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: give you a sonic taste of Dragon Slayer. 226 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 5: He quote all them omnia, I have been witnessed to something, 227 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 5: something of consequence to you. 228 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 4: To me, there's a. 229 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:41,959 Speaker 5: Great task eating to be dumny, No doubt you've heard 230 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 5: about trouble at home. 231 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 2: A dragon, fire and stench. 232 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 5: It is evil, pure and simple. Want me to do 233 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:57,319 Speaker 5: battle with that? Behold by I'm a chosen I shall 234 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 5: die that cy bay twice. 235 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:07,239 Speaker 2: The king selects a new victim, chosen by lot girls, virgins. 236 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 5: Your kittens made a pagnant for the mobster. 237 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: What your children or nine? 238 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 2: Only a few? Because that's how cool Dragon Slayer coming 239 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 2: from Paramount Pictures. 240 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: All right, now, if you want to go out and 241 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: watch Dragonslayer yourself or rewatch it, however you approach it 242 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,719 Speaker 1: before getting into the rest of this episode, Well, let 243 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: me tell you this one is widely available. You can 244 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: easily rent or buy it digitally, but I would say 245 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: pay attention to what version you're you're watching. Get this 246 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 1: in the highest visual quality possible. We watched it on 247 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: the excellent twenty twenty three pairmont Blu ray, which provides 248 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: us with a four K remastered version with Dolby Atmos 249 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: sound mix, original screen tests if you're into that. A 250 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: six part documentary that is quite good. I watched a 251 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 1: couple of installments of this, dealing with the dragon effects 252 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: and another aspect of the production, and then also a 253 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: commentary track by director Matthew Robbins and dragonslay Or Megafan 254 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: Ghierramel del Tour. 255 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 4: I want to hear more about this commentary track because 256 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 4: I've heard good things about other Del Toro commentary tracks. 257 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 4: A friend of mine has brought up before that his 258 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 4: Blade two commentary is a pretty great listen. 259 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I definitely did the Blade too commentary track 260 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: back in the day. I think I also did a 261 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: hell Boy commentary track, and I don't do a lot 262 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,760 Speaker 1: of commentary tracks these days. It's just a little harder 263 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: to find time for them. 264 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:51,479 Speaker 2: Sometimes. 265 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: I also think it's maybe not as constructive for the 266 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: weird house cinema treatment to get like really into the 267 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: weeds on the director's commentary. And not all commentar areas 268 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: from directors or stars and other people involved in the 269 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: production are necessarily that great, but del Toro is always 270 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: worth listening to. But because I mean, he has just 271 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: such you know, expertise, He has such love for cinema 272 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: and especially horror cinema and monster cinema. And this one 273 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: is this, this is really special because I have to 274 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: stress this is a film that del Toro had nothing 275 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: to do with. Del Toro was a boy when this 276 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: came out, He was a fan, and he ends up 277 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: having you know, meaningful connections to director Matthew Robbins later on. 278 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: But yeah, he's he's on this commentary track with the director, 279 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: you know, out of love for the film, out of 280 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: you know, and I'm also friendship with the director, and 281 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: you know, he's he's asking a lot of really insightful 282 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: questions about the production and also commenting on the things 283 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: that he really loves in it and pointing out some 284 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: some nuances that either might be lost on a first 285 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: time viewer or a casual viewer. But also and maybe 286 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: or more apparent to a filmmaker as opposed to and 287 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: to know someone who's just a pure viewer of cinema. 288 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and start talking about the connections here. 289 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: So yeah, I just mentioned him. Matthew Robbins was the 290 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: director and one of the writers on this born nineteen 291 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: forty five American writer and director, who at this point 292 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 1: was coming off of a nineteen seventy eight comedy titled 293 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: Corvette Summer starring Mark Hamill and Annie Potts. He was 294 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: part of the so called American New Way film movement 295 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: alongside the likes of George Lucas and Steven Spielberg, and 296 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: worked early on often in uncredited capacities, with both directors, 297 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: contributing writing and or ideas for such projects as nineteen 298 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: sixty seven's Electronic Labyrinth THHX eleven thirty eight. For eb 299 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: that's the short film that would become the THCHX eleven 300 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: thirty eight. He had something to do uncredited with seventy 301 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: five Jaws, seventy seven's Close Encounters of the Third Kind, 302 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: and then additionally, as a credited screenwriter, he'd written on 303 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: scripts for Spielberg's nineteen seventy four film the Sugarland Express 304 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: and the Baseball movie, the Bingo Long Traveling All Stars 305 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:20,479 Speaker 1: and Motor Kinks. 306 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:26,120 Speaker 4: That's not exactly the background you would expect coming into Dragonslayer. 307 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 1: That's right, But you know, dragonslaall to Dragons. Dragonslayer is 308 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 1: another one of these films though, that comes in the 309 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 1: aftermath of Star Wars, right, so you know, the studios 310 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 1: are all hungry for the next Star Wars and a 311 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: lot of you know, directors and writers come along and 312 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: they're like, well, you know, you're looking for the next 313 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: Star Wars, and it just so happens. 314 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 2: I have the script ready to go. 315 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 4: Big epic adventure with a young hero who yearns, yearns 316 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 4: for greatness. Here we go. 317 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 318 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Dragonslayer was not a commercial success, and afterwards Robin's 319 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: directive I'll see nineteen eighty five's the Legend of Billy 320 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: Jean eighty seven's Batteries not included, which he also wrote, 321 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: I have seen that one when I was a kid. 322 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: That that's like little flying robots in it. He also 323 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: did a rad dog movie called Bingo in nineteen ninety one. 324 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 2: He did not write that, he just directed. 325 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 4: It is a rat dog movie like Beethoven. 326 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, the dog. I think the dog is wearing sunglasses 327 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: on the cover. Like you just look at the poster, 328 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: the box out for this movie. It's like, that's a 329 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: rat dog movie. That dog's rat. 330 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 4: He's gonna wear sunglasses in the movie. Might do some 331 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 4: dancing to some rock music, maybe Robert Palmer's on. 332 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: I'd say thirty five percent chance this dog rides a skateboard. 333 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 2: That kind of movie, yeah, h okay. 334 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 1: And on the screenwriting front, he co wrote nineteen eighty 335 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,159 Speaker 1: five's Warning Sign, but then in nineteen ninety seven, he 336 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: worked on a script for del Toro's first and nearly 337 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: his last American picture. According to del Toro, it's the 338 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 1: film mimic on this film, and the filmmaking experience was 339 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:06,360 Speaker 1: somewhat compromised by studio interference. It led to a very 340 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: long and ongoing collaborative relationship between del Toro and Robbins. 341 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 1: To date, they've pinned four produced scripts together, so Mimic 342 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: twenty tens Don't Be Afraid of the Dark, twenty fifteen's 343 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: Crimson Peak, and twenty twenty two's Pinocchio. He's also worked 344 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: on screenplays for a couple of Bollywood films, I believe, 345 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: and he's still very much an active screenwriter to this day. 346 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 4: But he had a co writer on Dragonslayer, Right. 347 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 1: That's right, That's how Barwood born nineteen forty screenwriter and 348 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: director who came up alongside Robins, co wrote a number 349 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: of scripts with him, including The Sugarland Express, Corvette Summer, 350 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: and Warning Signs. Barwood also directed Warning Signs. That was 351 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: his only feature length film, but he went on to 352 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: direct and design several video game projects for Lucas Arts 353 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: and also wrote for them. All Right, now getting into 354 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: the cast here, this is a dragon movie, but this 355 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: is also a wizard movie, and you have we have 356 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: a pretty great wizard in this the Wizard Ulric and 357 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: a great wizard requires a great actor, and boy, they 358 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: landed one for this film with Sir Ralph Richardson. 359 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 4: He really does well because he can capture the kind 360 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 4: of humble, befuddled, quaint version of the wizard as just 361 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 4: an unassuming old man, but he can also come to 362 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 4: seem quite powerful when the when the need arises. 363 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I love how he's able to capture what 364 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 1: I think of as the weirdness of wizards, you know, 365 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: like I feel like there should be something about a 366 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 1: wizard that is, you know, just just utterly mysterious and dangerous, 367 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: like this is an individual with with knowledge beyond the 368 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: common man, and therefore, you know, who knows what's going 369 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 1: on in that mind of his. 370 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 4: Part of any great wizard is that it's not just 371 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 4: that they're powerful, but that you are not permitted to 372 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 4: know how powerful they are. 373 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,679 Speaker 1: Right right, So Richardson does a great job with that. 374 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 1: He's also to convey able to convey this kind of 375 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: melancholy almost sadness of this aging master, you know, who 376 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,679 Speaker 1: still has his powers at his disposable, but he's very 377 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: much in decline, just as magic is leaving the world, 378 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: like this is a very old man who is not 379 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: long for this world either. 380 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 4: I mean quite explicitly portrayed as someone who, you know, 381 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 4: if he'd stuck around a few more years, might have 382 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:32,920 Speaker 4: been burned at the stake by the newly converted Christians 383 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 4: in the village. 384 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: Right now, I should point out that on the commentary track, 385 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: Robinson del Toro point out, you know, they certainly talk 386 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: about his craft and how good he is at like 387 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: utilizing props such as the knife. 388 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:49,679 Speaker 2: We'll talk about the knife in a bit. They talk 389 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 2: about it. 390 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: How utterly piercing his eyes are in any of these scenes. 391 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 1: He's quite a screen presence. But they say, like a 392 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: lot of that weird energy has is also legitimate, Like 393 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 1: he's like a delightfully weird person. He apparently kept a 394 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 1: pet rat in his pocket the whole time on set, 395 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: a pet rat named Gratty, and he would take him 396 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: out between takes, solid wizard move. 397 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 4: How did he not talk the rat into getting screen time? 398 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: He's a consummate professional. Yeah, consummate professional knows that the 399 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: rat is here for emotional support and friendship. But you're 400 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 1: not gonna like shoehorn him into the scene. 401 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 4: The rat provides rat magic, whether you see it or not. 402 00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: Right right, so yes, Sir, Sir Ralph Richardson lived nineteen 403 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: oh two through nineteen eighty three. Legendary English actor of 404 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 1: stage and screen, two time Oscar nominee. His dramatic credits 405 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: include such films as nineteen forty nine's The Heiress, nineteen 406 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: fifty five's Richard the Third, sixty five's Doctor Chivago in 407 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy sevens Jesus of Nazareth. But he's equally celebrated 408 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: for his late career fantasy and sci fi work, appearing 409 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three It's Frankenstein The True Story, seventy 410 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: five's Rollerball, nineteen eighty one's Time Bandits, and nineteen eighty 411 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: four's I Always Forget that. This film's title is so long, 412 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: but Gray Stroke. The legend of Tarzan, Lord of the Apes. 413 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 4: Wait, is that the Christoph Lambert Tarzan? 414 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 2: It is? Yeah? 415 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 4: And in Time band it's this Ralph Richardson play God. 416 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 2: I believe he does. 417 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, My memory of Time Bandits is a little afraid. 418 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:26,719 Speaker 1: I really need to revisit it. 419 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 4: I believe it's David Warner as the Devil and Ralph 420 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 4: Richardson is God. Let's look it up. Well, his character 421 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 4: is called Supreme Being, but yes, I think he's supposed 422 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 4: to be God. He arrives at the end of the 423 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 4: movie after Evil has been defeated, and he's just sort 424 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 4: of this tidy business like a British man with a 425 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 4: dry sense of humor. 426 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: All right, So that's our wizard, and more on the 427 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 1: Wizard as we proceed here. But we also have an apprentice. 428 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: The Sorcerer's apprentice in this film is the character Galen 429 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: by Peter McNichol born nineteen fifty four. 430 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 4: You know, I think before this I mainly knew him 431 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,640 Speaker 4: as as Janosh from Ghostbusters Too. 432 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. 433 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:11,679 Speaker 1: I think if you know him from nothing else, it 434 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: is from Ghostbusters Too, where he's he's the guy constantly 435 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: singing the praises of Vigo, the Karpathian. 436 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 2: Yeah he is Vegoh. 437 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is you know, a wonderful, you know, comedic 438 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: performance in that. And I think he's had a number 439 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 1: of really sort of out there comedic performances throughout his career. 440 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 2: He's had a very rich. 441 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 1: Career on stage, screen and TV. This was his first 442 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 1: film role, coming off of theater work, but he debuted 443 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: on Broadway the same year in Crimes of the Heart. 444 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: He followed up Dragon Slayer with a role in nineteen 445 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: eighty two Sophie's Choice, and subsequent films include nineteen ninety 446 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,120 Speaker 1: three's Adams Family Values and nineteen ninety five's Dracula Dead 447 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: and Loving It. That Is, of Course Is That of 448 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,320 Speaker 1: Course is a comedy starring what Leslie Nielsen is Dracula 449 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,239 Speaker 1: and McNichol plays the Wrenfield character in that. 450 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,840 Speaker 4: Oh It's got a rin Field. I don't think I've 451 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 4: ever seen that one, But why do I Why do 452 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 4: I think of it as a comedy adaptation of Dracula 453 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 4: that hughes way closer to the original story than it 454 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 4: needs to. 455 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: That may be great. I believe I saw this when 456 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: I was younger, but I just vaguely remember a few 457 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 1: gags from it. A lot of people will also recognize 458 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,360 Speaker 1: McNichol from TV. He was a cast member on Ali McBeal, 459 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,479 Speaker 1: and his other TV credits include Tales from the Crypt, 460 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 1: he was in one of Russell McKay's episodes, he was 461 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: on twenty four, he was on Veep, and he's also 462 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 1: done a fair amount of voice acting, including voicing the 463 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 1: Mad Hatter in the Arkham Asylum games. 464 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 4: Now, I think McNichol does quite well with the young 465 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 4: hero role in this movie. But when I mentioned earlier 466 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 4: that a lot of the major characters don't seem especially deep, 467 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 4: he's I sort of had the main character here in mind, 468 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 4: like he we don't ever really know why he wants 469 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 4: anything that he wants. And I'm not complaining too much 470 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 4: because I still love dragons Layer. You know, It's not 471 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 4: something that prevented me from enjoying the film. But he's 472 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 4: to be generous, as you said earlier, maybe a character 473 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 4: who generates more questions than he answers. 474 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:14,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 475 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,959 Speaker 1: Absolutely, there are times where I find myself wondering, well, 476 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 1: why is he making this choice? Why does he want 477 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: this thing that he seems to want? And yeah, and 478 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: and this seems to be a common analysis of the 479 00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:29,440 Speaker 1: film based on some of the reviews I was looking at. 480 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: But but like you, I do like mcnickel in the role. 481 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: He has this kind of weird cherubic quality. He feels 482 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: more like a nerd hero as opposed to like a 483 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:44,199 Speaker 1: sort of you know, sex appeal teen heart throb kind 484 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: of a character. Though I do love the idea of 485 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: eighties teens with like heart dotted Peter McNichol posters on 486 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: their walls. 487 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 4: I feel like he's he's decently handsome in this film. 488 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's it's a major motion picture. He's 489 00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: he's plenty handsome. 490 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 4: But but yes, i'd see what you're saying. I mean, 491 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 4: he's not like a like a muscle bound go get 492 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 4: her hero. He's you know, he's a little bit apprehensive, 493 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 4: though he's also brave. But he's Yeah, he's closer to 494 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 4: Nerd than Jock, definitely. 495 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that that does make him more endearing. Like, 496 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: I don't think this character would have worked as well, 497 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: especially given maybe some of the limitations we were talking about, 498 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: if some one of the other sort of flavors of 499 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: the day or hot up and coming talents had played him, Like, 500 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 1: for instance, I read that Eric Roberts was considered for 501 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: the part. Oh, and I think Eric Roberts is quite 502 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 1: excellent in some of the millions of films that he's done, 503 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: But that would have been. 504 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 2: An entirely different Dragonslayer. 505 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: Even like nineteen eighty nineteen eighty one Eric Roberts, It 506 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:41,959 Speaker 1: would have been a different flavor. 507 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 4: Sorry, I got sidetracked just because I started thinking about 508 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 4: actors that have been in too many movies, and I 509 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 4: was like, what if it had been Udo Kierre or 510 00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 4: John Krodine. 511 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I was saying. I was thinking that Eric 512 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: Roberts is kind of the John Kerrodine of our time. 513 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: All right, So here we're still on Team Wizard here, 514 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: and the old Wizard has a grot hainer by the 515 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: name of Hodge, and he's a familiar face because he 516 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: is played by Sidney Bromley, who lived nineteen oh nine 517 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,000 Speaker 1: through nineteen eighty seven, a British character actor who we've 518 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: talked about on the show before because he was in 519 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four is The Never Ending Story, in which 520 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,919 Speaker 1: he played the Nome scientist Inky Walk in that. 521 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 4: Does he basically use the same voice in both movies? 522 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think so, you know That's what I say. Voice, 523 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,199 Speaker 1: same beard, same kind of like general. Well, I mean 524 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: he's ratcheting up that demeanor and never Ending story because 525 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,480 Speaker 1: he's playing this kind of outrageous gnome character. But still, 526 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,439 Speaker 1: I mean he's he's very much a character actor. I 527 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: get the impression, like you hire Sidney Bromley like you 528 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:40,959 Speaker 1: want certain things. 529 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 4: Yes, but in both cases he's very much like yo, 530 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 4: see surely enough exactly. 531 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 532 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: His other credits include sixty two's Night Creatures, sixty seven 533 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: is The Fearless Vampire Killers, the excellent nineteen seventy one 534 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: adaptation of Macbeth, nineteen eighty one's An American Werewolf in London, 535 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: and nineteen eighty six as Pirates, Oh What is He? 536 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 4: And Werewolf in London. This is just one of the 537 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 4: guys in the pub. 538 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: I think he's one of the pub guys. Yeah, I 539 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: don't specifically remember him, but I mean that's that's where 540 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: he has to be. That makes the most sense. Or 541 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,080 Speaker 1: he's like a street person that the werewolf kills in London, 542 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: like that would be the two main candidates here, but 543 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: I don't remember. 544 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 4: But Hodge is a lovable old grump like hepent. He 545 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 4: spends most of his screen time complaining, but he's it's 546 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 4: quite sad when he is killed. 547 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 2: Right, all right. 548 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: We also have a heroine in this picture, and that 549 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: is the character of Valerian played by Caitlin Clark. Not 550 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: to be confused with the basketball star of the same 551 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: name whose name is all over the news right now 552 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: for basketball reasons. But this is the actor Caitlin Clark, 553 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: who lived nineteen fifty two through two thousand and four. 554 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 4: Right, So she plays the character who kind of sets 555 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 4: the whole plot in motion, right by seeking out the 556 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 4: advice and counsel of a wizard in defeating the dragon. 557 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 2: That's right. 558 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, she's the one who ad on the scene and 559 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: it's like, hey, we need help with our dragon. And 560 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: it's a really interesting character because and this is I 561 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: think a prime example of a character that I ultimately 562 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: wanted to know more about. Like, I feel like there 563 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: there's ultimately unexplored depth here that, you know, depth that 564 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: we just got to get a hint of in many scenes, 565 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: but you want to know more about. 566 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, I think when I said that the characters could 567 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 4: have been deeper, I mainly had these two main roles 568 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 4: in mind, Peter Michichol's character in Caitlin Clark's character. But yeah, 569 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 4: she's interesting because she when we first meet her in 570 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 4: the movie, she her character is disguised as a boy, 571 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 4: and we learn that she has had to spend her 572 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 4: whole life whenever she was in public so far disguised 573 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 4: as a boy in order to avoid being drafted into 574 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 4: the potential lottery to become dragon food, which all the 575 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 4: girls of her village. 576 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: Were yeah, yeah, And then ultimately we see her you know, 577 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: it seems like she has the opportunity to live openly 578 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:06,480 Speaker 1: again as herself, but then plans change, and so yeah, 579 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: it just left me wanting more exploration of this character. 580 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: But anyway, Clark came out of the theater scene and 581 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,560 Speaker 1: this was her first feature film as well, followed by 582 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,479 Speaker 1: sporadic TV work, occasional small roles in such films as 583 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six as Crocodile Dundee nineteen ninety four Is 584 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: Blown Away. She remained more active in theater and later 585 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: as a theater instructor. Now her father in this who's 586 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: just credited as the character's name, is just Hilarian's father, 587 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: and he was played by Imris James, who lived nineteen 588 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: twenty eight through nineteen eighty nine, a Welsh Shakespearean actor, 589 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: probably best known for this film. His credits include a 590 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: lot of Shakespearean theater and British television, including Sherlock Holmes, 591 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: Doctor Who, and Hammer House of Horror. In fact, we 592 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: have discussed the episode of Hammer House of Horror that 593 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,719 Speaker 1: he acted in in Stuff to Blow Your Mind episode 594 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: Halloween episode Anthology of Horror that we did. That's the 595 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty episode the Mark of Satan. Oh. 596 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a creepy one where we talked about 597 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 4: like the evil mind control virus theme of that episode. 598 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 4: I was looking at the screenshot you showed me of 599 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 4: him in that episode and I think he might have 600 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 4: been playing like the coroner or something. But in Dragon 601 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 4: Slayer he plays yeah, Valerian's father, who you know He's 602 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 4: a very like, strong, kind, sturdy, friendly presence, and he 603 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,840 Speaker 4: takes it quite well that his daughter seems to have 604 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 4: fallen in love with one of the last pagan wizards 605 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 4: in the country. 606 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's very supportive and very protective. So yeah, fine, 607 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: fine character, so old performance. Oh but now let's get 608 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: to the royal family of the area, starting with the king. 609 00:32:55,160 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: The King Casadorus Rex played by Peter Are born nineteen 610 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: forty two. He is a practical ruler for dark times. 611 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 4: Yeah. I think practical is a good word for him 612 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,600 Speaker 4: because and this will come up even more so with 613 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 4: I think the next character we're going to talk about. 614 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 4: But he is while you would say that he sort 615 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 4: of fills the role of a villain in the plot, 616 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 4: he's not really all that villainous. He does some kind 617 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 4: of bad or sneaky things, but he ultimately is is 618 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 4: shown to be quite quite practical and quite you know, 619 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 4: sympathetic in many ways. 620 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 621 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: I think he's a pretty nuanced character. And then the 622 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,719 Speaker 1: performance is quite nice instead, So we don't get like 623 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 1: a cartoon tyrant. We don't get a comical coward here, 624 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: but rather a rational ruler who has made some morally 625 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 1: questionable and at times hypocritical choices in order to maintain 626 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: the status quo, in order to I think very much 627 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: in his mind as he discusses to keep the peace 628 00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: and to keep everything, to maintain stability. And if that 629 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: means yeah, feeding a woman to a dragon every year, 630 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: well that's just what you have to do. It's what 631 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 1: we've done. It seems to be working. Let's not shake 632 00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:14,800 Speaker 1: the boat, right. Peter Air probably best known for this film, 633 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: but his extensive credits include nineteen nineties Mountains of the Moon, 634 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,399 Speaker 1: ninety two's Orlando, ninety three's The Remains of the Day 635 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: in two thousand and ones from Hell, alongside such TV 636 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 1: shows as The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles in Rome. 637 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 4: He's got some interesting facial hair choices. 638 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, they dress them up nicely for this. Now. 639 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: His daughter in this picture is Princess Elsbeth played by 640 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:44,080 Speaker 1: Chloe Salomon. So this is the king's noble and idealistic daughter. 641 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,399 Speaker 1: More on her in a bit. But the actor here 642 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: a British actor with extensive TV and stage roles, though 643 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: this was her biggest film, and interestingly enough, this is 644 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: Alec Guinness's niece. 645 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 2: Oh, I had no idea. 646 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: So in many ways, she's the heart and moral compass 647 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: of the film, but that doesn't necessarily bode well for her. 648 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, I would say her character's fate was one of 649 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 4: the biggest surprises of the movie. Got incredibly grim there 650 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 4: for a. 651 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,399 Speaker 2: Bit, all right. 652 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 1: Now back to the sort of the villain realm our 653 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 1: sort of villains and shades of gray. Here we have 654 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: the character Tyrian, and this is the King's main enforcer, 655 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 1: a cold man but also a practical man of the sword. 656 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, so the same thing I said about the King 657 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,760 Speaker 4: I think applies to his character, but even more so, 658 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 4: he is I would say, the human villain of the movie. 659 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 4: But I kept waiting for him to do something more 660 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 4: overtly villainous, more absolutely selfish, But he really doesn't. Unless 661 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 4: there's something I'm forgiving, I don't think he ever really 662 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 4: does something overtly all that selfish. Instead, it seems like 663 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 4: he has a view about what would be the best 664 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 4: way to protect the people of the kingdom, and he 665 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 4: is following through on that view. 666 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, there is one murder. 667 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 1: Oh, well, there's more than one murder, but there's there's 668 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: one that's particularly cold blood. Well, we can get into that, 669 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:10,800 Speaker 1: and when we get. 670 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 4: Into that, it is cold blooded, but it is part 671 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 4: of his strategy for protecting his people. 672 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 2: That's right. 673 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 4: I'm not saying murders, Okay, I'm just saying like, you 674 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 4: never end up seeing him doing something where he's just like, oh, 675 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 4: trying to grab all the gold and take it away 676 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 4: for himself or something. 677 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:25,359 Speaker 2: Right. 678 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 1: He makes some good points, as we'll get into. But 679 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,040 Speaker 1: this character is played by John Hallam, who lived nineteen 680 00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: forty one through two thousand and six. We've actually talked 681 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,320 Speaker 1: about him on the show before because he played Luro, 682 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: the second in command Hawkman in nineteen eighty one's Flash Gordon, 683 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,759 Speaker 1: which means he was very hard to focus on since 684 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 1: he was almost always in a scene with Brian Blessed. 685 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, how could you even see him? 686 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:51,120 Speaker 2: Yeah? 687 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: Like, basically he's the other hawk Man that's not Brian Blessed, 688 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: and that is somewhat less loud. His other credits include 689 00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one's Life Valley with Michael Caine, Nicholas and Alexandria. 690 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: From the same year, nineteen seventy three is the Wickerman 691 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: eighty five's Life Force, Oh eighty five Santa Claus the 692 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 1: movie and nineteen ninety one's Robin Hood Prince of Thieves. 693 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 4: It's a lot of movies I've seen and I don't 694 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 4: remember what he was in any of them. 695 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:20,600 Speaker 2: Let's see. 696 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 1: And one more cast member I want to mention here, 697 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 1: and that is this I guess you would. He's kind 698 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:31,080 Speaker 1: of like a missionary, a Christian, an outsider that has 699 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: brought Christianity to the local realm. 700 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:33,759 Speaker 2: Here. 701 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 1: Brother jacopis here and he is played by Ian McDermott 702 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,919 Speaker 1: born nineteen forty five. So, yes, the man who would 703 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 1: become Emperor Palpatine seen here in a small but solid part. 704 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 4: Right, So he is the person who shows up at 705 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 4: the village to tell them the good news of Jesus 706 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 4: Christ and to inform them that the dragon is not 707 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,360 Speaker 4: a dragon but is Lucifer incarnate. And then he just 708 00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 4: gets like blasted with fire. 709 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, so instead of like twinkling depths of decrepit evil, 710 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:07,440 Speaker 1: we get reckless religious fanaticism. And in the process, I 711 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,840 Speaker 1: think we do get some hints of the tools, the 712 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: acting tools he'd employ in his performances of Palpatine over 713 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: the decades to come. But yeah, great tremendous actor in 714 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: Star Wars and out of Star Wars. Outside of the 715 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,880 Speaker 1: Star Wars franchise, his credits include nineteen eighties The Awakening, 716 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 1: eighty three's Gorky Park, eighty eight Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, nineteen 717 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: ninety five's Restoration in nineteen ninety nine Sleepy Hollow. All right, now, 718 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,759 Speaker 1: going behind the scenes here. We don't always call out 719 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,040 Speaker 1: the cinematographer on a picture, but we absolutely have to 720 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: hear because the cinematography in this film is amazing and 721 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: it is by a legend in the business, Derek van Lint, 722 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 1: who lived nineteen thirty two through twenty ten. 723 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 4: I agree this is a fantastic looking movie, and in 724 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,239 Speaker 4: all of its different ways. I liked that there is 725 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 4: a lot of visual contra asked in the sets and 726 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,760 Speaker 4: the settings, Like you're constantly going back and forth between 727 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,760 Speaker 4: environments that are cramped and claustrophobic and slimy and ugly 728 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,440 Speaker 4: and suggest hell to and then going from there to 729 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,800 Speaker 4: beautiful open vistas and mountain landscapes and valleys and running 730 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,920 Speaker 4: water and all that. There is a there's a pleasing 731 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,920 Speaker 4: sort of rhythm of images, and I like that. 732 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, come as no surprise, I think to a lot 733 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,800 Speaker 1: of people that His other main cinematography credit in feature 734 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: film is for nineteen seventy nine's Alien, and I think 735 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:43,360 Speaker 1: you definitely see that in comparing like the caves environments 736 00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:47,319 Speaker 1: and even the other interior environments that we explore in 737 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 1: this film, comparing those to the you know, like the 738 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 1: alien planet in Aliens or just that the depths of 739 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: the Nostromo. But the curious thing is that outside of 740 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:03,879 Speaker 1: mostly dragons Alien, he worked mostly on commercials for Canadian TV. 741 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:08,160 Speaker 1: He was a Canadian, you know, there's and I couldn't 742 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 1: find a complete list of everything he worked on, but 743 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 1: he did like an Atari twenty six hundred commercial for 744 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:18,760 Speaker 1: Activision's Pitfall two and yeah, so not a lot of credits. 745 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,720 Speaker 1: But even then, from what I've read, he was highly 746 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:25,719 Speaker 1: influential within the business and actually turned down the work 747 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 1: on subsequent big film projects with Ridley Scott and others. 748 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,879 Speaker 1: He directed a single feature link film himself the year 749 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,880 Speaker 1: two thousands, The Spreading Ground, starring Dennis Hopper, which was 750 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: also co written by Mark Berman. Oh, I haven't seen that, 751 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,919 Speaker 1: so anyway, He's one of the many reasons you should 752 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 1: definitely see this film in the best quality possible in 753 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 1: a nice dark room. 754 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:48,240 Speaker 2: Good TV. 755 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:49,879 Speaker 4: It looks fantastic. 756 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 1: Now, the composer on this film is another legend in 757 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,759 Speaker 1: the business, and that's Alex North, who lived nineteen ten 758 00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 1: through nineteen ninety one American composer and fifteen time Academy 759 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: Award nominee. His most famous scores include those for nineteen 760 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:06,879 Speaker 1: fifty two is a Street Car Named Desire, and Death 761 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 1: of a Salesman nineteen fifty six is Unchained. That's where 762 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,839 Speaker 1: We get Unchained Melody nineteen sixty one Spartacus sixty four 763 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 1: is Cleopatra eighty five's Under the Volcano. He completed a 764 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,520 Speaker 1: score for two thousand and one, A Space Odyssey, but 765 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,240 Speaker 1: Kubrick rejected it in favor of a needle drop classical 766 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:29,279 Speaker 1: music score, and I'm to understand he actually reused some 767 00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,879 Speaker 1: material from the two thousand and one project in this 768 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:37,400 Speaker 1: film HM Now. He received an OSCAR nomination for Dragon Slayer, 769 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: but lost out to Vangelists for his work on Chariots 770 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: of Fire. John Williams was also nominated that year for Raiders, 771 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 1: But I mean Chariots of Fire is an all timer, 772 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: so I mean, if you got to lose to Chariots 773 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:50,399 Speaker 1: of Fire. 774 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:52,000 Speaker 2: It's perfectly fine. 775 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,160 Speaker 4: I think the music in Dragon Slayer works quite well, 776 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,759 Speaker 4: especially right at the beginning of the movie. There's it's 777 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,759 Speaker 4: you know, classic dark fantasy opening. It opens with like 778 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,839 Speaker 4: a black screen and these just lead heavy horns really 779 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 4: working the brass section. It's dark, deep, ominous. It's really good. 780 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, highly effective. All right, Now, this is a special 781 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 1: effects movie. This is got This has tremendous special effects 782 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: and we're not going to be able to do complete 783 00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:25,080 Speaker 1: justice to them here. But the dragon does not play himself. 784 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,080 Speaker 1: This was the work of a vast industrial light and 785 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 1: magic crew, featuring such names as Dennis Murran, Phil Tippett, 786 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,880 Speaker 1: Ken Ralston and Brian Johnson. The film was nominated for 787 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:40,680 Speaker 1: a Special Effects OSCAR that year, but lost out too. 788 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: The only other nominee which was also an ILM project, 789 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:48,839 Speaker 1: Raiders of the Lost Ark. This film so they used 790 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,240 Speaker 1: various methods to bring the dragon to life. The film 791 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,200 Speaker 1: makes use of the go Motion system to create realistic 792 00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,960 Speaker 1: motion blur and smooth character articulation for the dragon, as 793 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,800 Speaker 1: well as related miniature elements, and according to ILM on 794 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,560 Speaker 1: their website, the film inspired the development of the GO 795 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,239 Speaker 1: emotion system. I think Tipet had previously employed some of 796 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:12,319 Speaker 1: the techniques on The Empire Strikes Back, but this was like, 797 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 1: this was a big go motion picture. And if you 798 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,920 Speaker 1: want more details on what that consists of, again, I 799 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 1: highly recommend the making of documentary that is on the 800 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: Blu Ray. 801 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 4: I was curious about how they achieved the shots of 802 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 4: the dragon moving because it does look unlike really any 803 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,360 Speaker 4: other special effects shots of that type I can think of, 804 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:37,600 Speaker 4: and it looks wonderful. 805 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:42,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's so these different types of effects. Obviously, 806 00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 1: see have large scale pneumatic limbs. You got a large 807 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,759 Speaker 1: scale heads, stop motion, go motion miniatures, flying miniatures that 808 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:50,359 Speaker 1: are brought to life in a very kind of like 809 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:55,400 Speaker 1: Star Wars spaceship fashion, and then puppetry, flamethrowers and so forth. 810 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:58,560 Speaker 1: But I imagine the scenes you're thinking of are particularly 811 00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,320 Speaker 1: like the crawling around the cave sequences, and I believe 812 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: that what we're talking about here are those go motion 813 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,440 Speaker 1: sequences that Phil tip It was in charge of, and 814 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:12,440 Speaker 1: indeed these are just just so magical, it just absolutely 815 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,320 Speaker 1: feels alive. I mean, there's a reason that del Toro 816 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 1: himself says like this not only is this the best 817 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,359 Speaker 1: Dragon that had ever been done? This is the best 818 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:21,879 Speaker 1: Dragon that has ever been done in. 819 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,840 Speaker 4: Cinema still to this day. Yeah, I don't know. I 820 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 4: don't know what I would think was better. 821 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean even I've read other productions talking about 822 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 1: their dragon and it's like they oftentimes acknowledge the DNA 823 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,759 Speaker 1: of Dragon Slayer in what they do. You know, it's like, well, 824 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,880 Speaker 1: we looked to Dragon Slayer, we looked at what worked, 825 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: and we tried to build off of that. 826 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,720 Speaker 4: All right, are you ready to talk about the plot? 827 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:55,560 Speaker 2: Let's dive in. 828 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,360 Speaker 4: So we begin in darkness, as I said earlier, with 829 00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:03,160 Speaker 4: those the heavy, scary kind of horn melodies playing, and 830 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,360 Speaker 4: then eventually out of the blackness we see a burning 831 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,400 Speaker 4: torch emerge, and then there's another and another, and the 832 00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:14,640 Speaker 4: picture kind of differentiates from just pure black into an 833 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 4: indigo nighttime sky in the background, and then the dark 834 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,839 Speaker 4: shapes of dead trees in the foreground. So a group 835 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,640 Speaker 4: of people are making their way across a hillside by 836 00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:28,759 Speaker 4: torchlight in the dead of night. And then somewhere else 837 00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,480 Speaker 4: we see an old man in a dim cave like 838 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,960 Speaker 4: room surrounded by arcane instruments, engaged in magic and alchemy, 839 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,879 Speaker 4: and he sort of waves a fire of sorcery into 840 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,640 Speaker 4: existence in a metal bowl and then stares into the 841 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,680 Speaker 4: flame like he is divining a scene from elsewhere or 842 00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,800 Speaker 4: from the future, and we hear screams and the sound 843 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,120 Speaker 4: of metal clashing violence, all this echoing in his mind. 844 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,719 Speaker 4: And then the party we saw traveling by night, they 845 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,200 Speaker 4: arrive at the heavy door of a hilltop castle and 846 00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,480 Speaker 4: they knock and somebody answers the door. I believe it's Hodge. 847 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:06,000 Speaker 4: Here are sort of like a strange old man, and 848 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,440 Speaker 4: he tries to turn them away, but we learned that 849 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:13,200 Speaker 4: this is the dwelling of Ulrich of Kraganmore. He says, yes, 850 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:15,840 Speaker 4: you've come a long way, Yes, your business is urgent. 851 00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,879 Speaker 4: It does not matter. He sees no one, and there's 852 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,399 Speaker 4: grumbling from within the party. They are being led by 853 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,960 Speaker 4: a young man named a Valerian, and some of the 854 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:27,520 Speaker 4: unhappy travelers are like, what now, boy? In fact, I 855 00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:29,560 Speaker 4: think it's the guy who's going to later convert to 856 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,759 Speaker 4: Christianity that's being really grumpy. But eventually they get led 857 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,520 Speaker 4: inside the castle and the master of the castle is 858 00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:40,680 Speaker 4: the great wizard Ulric of kraganmore and he has foreseen 859 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,759 Speaker 4: that he must meet with them. He also tells his 860 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:48,480 Speaker 4: young apprentice Galen that he foresees his own death and 861 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,920 Speaker 4: matters that will be of great importance to Galen as well. 862 00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,960 Speaker 4: We learned that Galen is an eager young student. He 863 00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,279 Speaker 4: wants to basically what he wants more than anything else 864 00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,880 Speaker 4: in the world is to become mighty in the ways 865 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,560 Speaker 4: of sorcery. But he is still learning. And then we 866 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,399 Speaker 4: get to the scene where Ulric comes out to meet 867 00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,759 Speaker 4: the travelers, and I thought this was really funny. I 868 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:14,440 Speaker 4: love the use of what you might call diegetic special 869 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,240 Speaker 4: effects in this scene. So, you know, in many cases 870 00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,239 Speaker 4: you might say that the mechanisms of special effects are 871 00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:25,000 Speaker 4: non diegetic because they're just supposed to appear on screen 872 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:27,760 Speaker 4: as if they are representing some kind of real magic. 873 00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:31,080 Speaker 4: But here, as Ulric comes out to meet the guests, 874 00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:35,160 Speaker 4: Galen is like shaking some sheet metal to generate a 875 00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,880 Speaker 4: sound of thunder, and then he throws exploding powder on 876 00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,320 Speaker 4: the floor to create a flash of light and smoke 877 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,200 Speaker 4: as Ulric enters the room, so it's like he's still 878 00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,920 Speaker 4: sort of got the sorcery training wheels on, you know, 879 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,239 Speaker 4: he's like using these materials. 880 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,520 Speaker 1: It also reminded me a bit of some of the 881 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,400 Speaker 1: themes they're explored in The Last Unicorn, like the idea 882 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,640 Speaker 1: of having to put a like a fake horn on 883 00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:03,440 Speaker 1: a real unicorn. Normal people could see it like a 884 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,720 Speaker 1: we're living in a world here where magic is leaving 885 00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:10,080 Speaker 1: the world. There's less magic available, but also legitimate sorcery 886 00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,080 Speaker 1: as we see it in the film has kind of 887 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,560 Speaker 1: like this kind of subtle quality to it, and there's 888 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,680 Speaker 1: kind of this sense that just normal folk might miss it, 889 00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,640 Speaker 1: they might not understand what they're seeing. So perhaps you've 890 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:24,279 Speaker 1: got to spice things up a little bit with some 891 00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:26,080 Speaker 1: stage effects and so forth. 892 00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,520 Speaker 4: But of course Ulrich is the real deal, because when 893 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,759 Speaker 4: he comes into the room, we see him immediately using 894 00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,239 Speaker 4: real magic, like he raises flames on the candles and 895 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:37,760 Speaker 4: in the hearth with a word. And so he meets 896 00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,439 Speaker 4: with the travelers. We learn they are a delegation from 897 00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,359 Speaker 4: or Land, which is beyond Valvatia, and he says, let's 898 00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:48,840 Speaker 4: see the artifacts, as if this is almost like a routine, 899 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,000 Speaker 4: kind of recurring type of meeting. He's just like, we 900 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,920 Speaker 4: go through the steps here, show me the artifacts and 901 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:59,640 Speaker 4: they share with him scales and an enormous tooth. Ulric 902 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,880 Speaker 4: it first seems a little intimidated. He says, the beast 903 00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:07,200 Speaker 4: that this came from must be enormous, and he suggests 904 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,640 Speaker 4: they try someone else. He says, try the Meridid sisters 905 00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:14,480 Speaker 4: or Rimbau. These are other sorcerers that apparently have experience 906 00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:18,160 Speaker 4: fighting dragons, but Valerian says, nope, they are all dead. 907 00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,560 Speaker 4: Ulrich seems to be the only great sorcerer left in 908 00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:25,080 Speaker 4: the land. Ulrich then discovers more of their plight. The 909 00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:29,240 Speaker 4: king of Orland, Cassiodorus, has made a pact with the monster. 910 00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,040 Speaker 4: The dragon agrees not to attack the villages and burn 911 00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,279 Speaker 4: the crops of Orland, but this is only as long 912 00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:40,000 Speaker 4: as at the spring and autumn equinox he receives a 913 00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:44,600 Speaker 4: human sacrifice. They will send him a virgin selected by lottery. 914 00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:49,719 Speaker 4: Ulrich judges this arrangement barbaric, and then Valerian says to him, 915 00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,200 Speaker 4: are you afraid of dragons? And Ulrich says, I'm going 916 00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,920 Speaker 4: to quote him here. He says no. In fact, if 917 00:49:55,920 --> 00:50:00,279 Speaker 4: it weren't for sorcerers, there wouldn't be any dragons. Once 918 00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:06,320 Speaker 4: the skies were dotted with them, magnificent horned backs, leathern wings, soaring, 919 00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:10,240 Speaker 4: and their hot breath wind. Oh, I know, this creature 920 00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:16,160 Speaker 4: of yours vermic thracks, pejorative. Look at these scales, these ridges. 921 00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:20,480 Speaker 4: When a dragon gets this old, it knows nothing but pain, 922 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:26,560 Speaker 4: constant pain. It grows decrepit, crippled, pitiful, spiteful. 923 00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,279 Speaker 1: It's a great moment because, I mean, obviously he's not 924 00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:34,440 Speaker 1: just describing the dragon here, he's also talking about himself. 925 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,640 Speaker 1: He's talking about the ravages of age. 926 00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:40,640 Speaker 4: That's right, So that's interesting. But also it's a strange 927 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,560 Speaker 4: take on the dragon. So you know, we were saying 928 00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,719 Speaker 4: earlier that the dragon in this movie is very much 929 00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,960 Speaker 4: a monster and is not one of the noble, intelligent, 930 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,600 Speaker 4: you know, higher dragons of some other fantasy stories. But 931 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:55,960 Speaker 4: it almost sounds like maybe this same dragon would have 932 00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:59,480 Speaker 4: been many many years ago. But dragons, when they become 933 00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:04,200 Speaker 4: old to become twisted and cruel. Yeah, and it's because 934 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:05,640 Speaker 4: they themselves are in pain. 935 00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, it reminds me a bit of examples 936 00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:12,320 Speaker 1: we've talked about in the natural world concerning meat eaters, 937 00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:17,080 Speaker 1: you know, particularly a man eaters, large predators that have 938 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:22,839 Speaker 1: just have turned to killing and consuming human beings, and 939 00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,040 Speaker 1: in many cases that's not because you have a creature 940 00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,200 Speaker 1: in its prime. You have a creature that's aging, that 941 00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:32,400 Speaker 1: maybe has dental problems and so forth, and therefore has 942 00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:34,360 Speaker 1: kind of been reduced to this status. 943 00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's having trouble surviving in the way it always 944 00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,400 Speaker 4: has before, and so is trying new things out of desperation. 945 00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,880 Speaker 4: So Ulric agrees to help them. He suits up to travel, 946 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:49,080 Speaker 4: and he says goodbye to Galen and Hodge. Hodge is 947 00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:52,520 Speaker 4: his retainer there at the castle, Galen's little magical assistant. 948 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:56,320 Speaker 4: That's that's Peter McNichol. As he's leaving, he says to Galen, 949 00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:00,839 Speaker 4: keep your hands out of my reagents. Ooh, then we're 950 00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,120 Speaker 4: about to get a really great villain introduction. As the 951 00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,480 Speaker 4: party is preparing to leave the castle of Kraganmore, they 952 00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:11,520 Speaker 4: are intercepted by armed men led by Tyrian, the captain 953 00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:15,040 Speaker 4: of Cassiodorus's royal guard, his king's guard, if you will. 954 00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:21,040 Speaker 4: Tyrian is a large man. He is sneering and seemingly dangerous. 955 00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:24,319 Speaker 4: He has that energy of someone who is calm for 956 00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:29,200 Speaker 4: the moment, but could suddenly become violent. However, once he 957 00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:33,719 Speaker 4: starts talking, I gotta admit Tyrian makes some good points. 958 00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,400 Speaker 4: He says, look, I know what you're up to. You 959 00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,440 Speaker 4: know you're gonna get a wizard to go kill this dragon. Well, 960 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,200 Speaker 4: I don't love the dragon either, but if you try 961 00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:45,439 Speaker 4: to kill it and fail, you are going to stir 962 00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:48,680 Speaker 4: up a huge mess of trouble and it may that 963 00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,799 Speaker 4: may be disastrous for the people of the kingdom. So 964 00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:54,320 Speaker 4: if you're gonna try to kill the dragon, you better 965 00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:57,000 Speaker 4: be sure that your wizard is up to the job. 966 00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,480 Speaker 4: And then Hodge responds to this, saying, ah, so it's 967 00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:04,319 Speaker 4: a test you're looking for. We don't do tests, and 968 00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:09,000 Speaker 4: Tyrian's response is no, of course not. They never do tests. 969 00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:13,759 Speaker 4: Not many real deeds either. Oh, conversation with your grandmother's 970 00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:17,160 Speaker 4: shade in a darkened room, the odd love potion or two. 971 00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,399 Speaker 4: But comes a doubter. Why then it's the wrong day, 972 00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,920 Speaker 4: The planets are not in line, the entrails are not favorable. 973 00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:28,640 Speaker 4: We don't do tests. And so Tyrian comes off like 974 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:30,640 Speaker 4: a villain in the scene, but he's making a lot 975 00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,960 Speaker 4: of sense. You do not want to send Uri Geller 976 00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:36,880 Speaker 4: up to fight the monster that is going to react 977 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:38,680 Speaker 4: with swift and terrible revenge. 978 00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:39,520 Speaker 5: Yeah. 979 00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, he does make some great points here. You know, 980 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,960 Speaker 1: it's like, again kind of in support of the status quo, 981 00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:49,160 Speaker 1: but it's like, are you going to actually solve any 982 00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:50,680 Speaker 1: problems with this or are you just going to make 983 00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,160 Speaker 1: things worse. He's very much of the mindset I think, 984 00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,600 Speaker 1: you know, better one hundred years of tyranny than a 985 00:53:57,640 --> 00:53:59,080 Speaker 1: day of chaos, that sort of thing. 986 00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:01,719 Speaker 4: But they have sperience to base this on because they 987 00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:05,200 Speaker 4: will reveal later that the king's brother long ago did 988 00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,560 Speaker 4: try to go slay the dragon to free the people 989 00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:13,080 Speaker 4: from its from its oppression, and in response to this attack, 990 00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:17,440 Speaker 4: the dragon burned all their crops and attacked their villages 991 00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:22,600 Speaker 4: and many were killed and it was horrible. Yeah, but anyway, 992 00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:26,440 Speaker 4: Ulric says, yeah, okay, Tyrian, I will consent to a test. 993 00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:29,040 Speaker 4: And it's what test is it? It's the old stab 994 00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:33,720 Speaker 4: me with the magic dagger test. So Ulric assures Tyrian. 995 00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,760 Speaker 4: He like gets Peter McNichol to go get a special 996 00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:39,200 Speaker 4: dagger for him, and he puts the dagger against his 997 00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:42,160 Speaker 4: chest and says, go on, you can't hurt me. And 998 00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,480 Speaker 4: then Ulrich he uses magic to trap Galen inside his 999 00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:49,400 Speaker 4: workshop to prevent him from intervening, and Tyrian does the 1000 00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:51,640 Speaker 4: test and oh no, Ulric is killed. 1001 00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,480 Speaker 1: This is a really great scene and one that I 1002 00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:59,120 Speaker 1: enjoyed rewatching with commentary. So Richardson really does a lot 1003 00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:02,440 Speaker 1: of s all fascinating work here, Like there's kind of 1004 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:07,160 Speaker 1: like ritualistic handling of the dagger leading up to the test, 1005 00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:10,680 Speaker 1: the bearing of his breast for the dagger, and there's 1006 00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:12,920 Speaker 1: and the look in his eyes, you know, with this 1007 00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,840 Speaker 1: at first with the boldness and assuredness of a powerful wizard, 1008 00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,760 Speaker 1: but then it you know, it kind of transitions into 1009 00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:24,680 Speaker 1: like the certainty, the the the mundane nature of death, 1010 00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:29,200 Speaker 1: you know. Uh. And del Toro talks about this a 1011 00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:32,160 Speaker 1: bit on the commentary track, compares the overall blocking and 1012 00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:35,480 Speaker 1: cinematography of the scene to like arim Brandt painting. 1013 00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:36,120 Speaker 2: You know. 1014 00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:39,040 Speaker 1: It's it's it's really a great sequence and really a 1015 00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:40,720 Speaker 1: showcase for Richardson's acting. 1016 00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:43,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, there are a lot of things about 1017 00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,239 Speaker 4: this movie I think you could regard as as a 1018 00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,640 Speaker 4: bit rim brandy. There are these scenes of orange light 1019 00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:53,239 Speaker 4: and shadows, but also yeah, the blocking, like the way 1020 00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:54,719 Speaker 4: the wizard kind of collapses. 1021 00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:58,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because he does do like the death here 1022 00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,239 Speaker 1: does not feel magic. It feels like an old man 1023 00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:05,760 Speaker 1: foolishly getting himself stabbed through the heart and just dying 1024 00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:06,520 Speaker 1: there in the mud. 1025 00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:09,520 Speaker 4: It makes you wonder did he actually have any powers 1026 00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:11,640 Speaker 4: at all? I mean, we saw him light some candles 1027 00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:12,839 Speaker 4: and stuff, but was that it? 1028 00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:16,480 Speaker 1: And it seems very much a world where that is 1029 00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,520 Speaker 1: a strong possibility that he had no magic left in him. 1030 00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:21,600 Speaker 1: There was no great magic left for this guy to do. 1031 00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:24,880 Speaker 4: So we see funeral rights for Ulrich. Galen burns his 1032 00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,000 Speaker 4: body on a pyre. There's a green flame that emerges, 1033 00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,600 Speaker 4: and Galen looks on with terrible sadness. We see shooting 1034 00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:35,600 Speaker 4: stars streaking across the heavens. And the next morning Hodge 1035 00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:38,560 Speaker 4: comes in and scrapes up the ashes from the funeral 1036 00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:42,319 Speaker 4: pyre into a leather pouch, and we see Galen kind 1037 00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:45,400 Speaker 4: of moping around, covering up Ulric's things with cloth and 1038 00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:49,239 Speaker 4: wondering what to do with himself. But his adventure is 1039 00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:52,919 Speaker 4: just beginning because some magical selection is at work here. 1040 00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:58,480 Speaker 4: Galen finds Ulric's enchanted amulet burning for him, burning with 1041 00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:02,320 Speaker 4: this eager orange light in his presence. It has chosen 1042 00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:06,680 Speaker 4: him as its next owner. You are the wizard now, Galen, and. 1043 00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,560 Speaker 1: Just fills him with the foolish self confidence he needs 1044 00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,120 Speaker 1: to set out to slay the dragon. 1045 00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,480 Speaker 4: That's right. So we see Galen and Hodge on the 1046 00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:17,680 Speaker 4: journey to Orland. They're making the journey and they're like 1047 00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:20,360 Speaker 4: catching up to the party of visitors that came to 1048 00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:24,880 Speaker 4: them earlier. Galen seems excited and a little bit overwhelmed 1049 00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:27,520 Speaker 4: by his new power, like he's levitating an egg in 1050 00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:30,640 Speaker 4: his hands while they walk across the country. This is 1051 00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:34,200 Speaker 4: the first time we see like some really gorgeous exterior 1052 00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:38,000 Speaker 4: location shots. They're going through a green valley framed by mountains, 1053 00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:41,400 Speaker 4: and they make their way through these misty, sun dappled woods. 1054 00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:45,680 Speaker 4: It's very beautiful. But Galen is also he's playing with 1055 00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:49,760 Speaker 4: and arguably abusing his wizard powers. Hodge is complaining and 1056 00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:54,560 Speaker 4: Galen starts like magically stealing his cloak and stuff. Eventually, 1057 00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:57,080 Speaker 4: Galen and Hodge catch up to the traveling party and 1058 00:57:57,120 --> 00:58:00,600 Speaker 4: Galen introduces them to his new powers. Says, you know, 1059 00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:04,080 Speaker 4: he's saying, I take on the burden of your request. 1060 00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,320 Speaker 4: I am Galen, I am the inheritor of Ulrich's knowledge, 1061 00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:18,920 Speaker 4: and I am the sorcerer you seek. Now Here we 1062 00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:22,480 Speaker 4: cut away to somewhere else in Orland, where we are 1063 00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:27,200 Speaker 4: going to witness a sacrifice to vermic Thrack's pejorative the dragon. 1064 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:30,480 Speaker 4: I don't know if we even took a moment to 1065 00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,360 Speaker 4: comment on the dragon's name yet, did we know? 1066 00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:36,160 Speaker 1: But it is such a wonderful name, and it is 1067 00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,360 Speaker 1: kind of left a little vague whether this is thought 1068 00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:42,280 Speaker 1: of as an individual name or like a species sort 1069 00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:46,960 Speaker 1: of name, given the Wizard's identification of it earlier. 1070 00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:49,560 Speaker 4: Oh, I hadn't thought of it as a species name. 1071 00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:51,360 Speaker 4: I thought of it as like a proper name. But 1072 00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:55,760 Speaker 4: you could be right, it works either way, I think. Yeah, 1073 00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,520 Speaker 4: But how does anybody know this is the dragon's name? 1074 00:58:58,640 --> 00:58:58,760 Speaker 2: Like? 1075 00:58:59,120 --> 00:59:01,440 Speaker 4: Does the dragon use this name itself? 1076 00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:04,480 Speaker 1: We never hear it talk, I do know. If it 1077 00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:08,600 Speaker 1: can talk, it doesn't, or it no longer speaks. Yeah, 1078 00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:10,800 Speaker 1: this is not a dragon with anything to say and 1079 00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:15,000 Speaker 1: say with words. It speaks instead with flames and violence. 1080 00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:19,160 Speaker 4: Right, So we see a procession of soldiers, carts robed 1081 00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:23,000 Speaker 4: priests winding up a mountain path of dark rocks. They 1082 00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:26,640 Speaker 4: are escorting a prisoner, a young woman dressed in white 1083 00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:30,160 Speaker 4: with flowers in her hair. She is a sacrifice that 1084 00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:33,000 Speaker 4: is meant for the dragon. So they take her up 1085 00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:35,320 Speaker 4: the mountain and they leave her chain to a stake 1086 00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,920 Speaker 4: near the mouth of a cave, and the priest produces 1087 00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:43,120 Speaker 4: a scroll and begins reading an official decree commemorating the sacrifice. 1088 00:59:43,640 --> 00:59:48,360 Speaker 4: Though while he's reading this, there begins a great deep rumbling, 1089 00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,280 Speaker 4: and the soldiers and the teamsters with the carts, they 1090 00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:53,400 Speaker 4: all panic and they start just trying to get out 1091 00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:56,240 Speaker 4: of there as fast as they can before the cleric 1092 00:59:56,280 --> 01:00:00,520 Speaker 4: even finishes reading the statement, which is really funny. Everybody's 1093 01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:02,640 Speaker 4: trying to run away, like the carts are getting stuck 1094 01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:05,360 Speaker 4: in the mud, and people are freaking out. But this 1095 01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:10,600 Speaker 4: scene is actually quite scary. Yeah, the young woman being sacrificed, 1096 01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:13,960 Speaker 4: she struggles to free herself from her manacles. We hear 1097 01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:17,439 Speaker 4: these heavy footsteps approaching. We don't see the dragon yet, 1098 01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:19,680 Speaker 4: but these sounds are coming from the yawning mouth of 1099 01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:23,000 Speaker 4: the cave. There's steam rushing up from the gaps in 1100 01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:26,040 Speaker 4: the rocks, and then we see a giant, clawed pair 1101 01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:29,960 Speaker 4: of toes curling around the corner of the rock, and 1102 01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:33,800 Speaker 4: the beast reveals itself in full to her, but not 1103 01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:37,480 Speaker 4: to us. Yet we get the feeling we sort of 1104 01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:40,040 Speaker 4: see from its point of view and get the feeling 1105 01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:43,840 Speaker 4: that it is towering, monstrous. We do see that it 1106 01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:48,600 Speaker 4: has a slimy tail covered in these spikes protruding bones. 1107 01:00:49,520 --> 01:00:52,920 Speaker 4: Not like the elegant sort of patterns of ridges and 1108 01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:57,160 Speaker 4: bumps who you see on smoother dragons of recent media. 1109 01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:01,560 Speaker 4: This looks more like a gigantic spot of fish bones, 1110 01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:05,600 Speaker 4: you know, like broken in places, irregular modeled, with age, 1111 01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:09,360 Speaker 4: covered in scales and mucus. Just horrible in every way. 1112 01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:12,960 Speaker 1: And again we don't see it in full us the viewer. 1113 01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:16,880 Speaker 1: We see bits and pieces of it. The full shape 1114 01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:19,960 Speaker 1: of the dragon is implied rather than stated overtly. 1115 01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:23,200 Speaker 4: Right, So, the young woman, actually the last moment, does 1116 01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,560 Speaker 4: manage to free herself from her from her manacles, but 1117 01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:30,400 Speaker 4: it's too late. The dragon is there. It's looming over her, 1118 01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:35,240 Speaker 4: a giant, stinking, hateful mass. And then finally it just 1119 01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:40,560 Speaker 4: unleashes a breath of fire. It's an incredibly effective scary scene. 1120 01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:43,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is like a horror movie sequence right here, 1121 01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:45,920 Speaker 1: and it uses the tools of horror quite well. Like 1122 01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,120 Speaker 1: you mentioned, her trying to free herselves from herself from 1123 01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:52,000 Speaker 1: the manacles, and of course that they're cutting up her wrists, 1124 01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:55,160 Speaker 1: she's straining and having to squeeze, like and it's one 1125 01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:58,360 Speaker 1: of those small touches, you know, where we can more 1126 01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:02,480 Speaker 1: easily imagine that pain, in that desperation, then we can 1127 01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:06,920 Speaker 1: like the larger, more fantastic aspects of and extreme aspects 1128 01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:10,280 Speaker 1: of the situation, and therefore, like the familiar makes the 1129 01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:16,880 Speaker 1: fantastic more real to us. So it's excellently done. And yeah, 1130 01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,120 Speaker 1: when we start seeing these glimpses of the dragon, just 1131 01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:23,640 Speaker 1: utterly terrifying. On the commentary track, del Toro just loses 1132 01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:27,000 Speaker 1: his mind over this sequence. He's just he's like, oh, 1133 01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:29,440 Speaker 1: what of what I wouldn't give for a scene like this? 1134 01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,280 Speaker 1: You know, It's like, find someone in your life who 1135 01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:35,560 Speaker 1: loves you as much as del Toro loves these dragon sequences. 1136 01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:38,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, that is a good point you make about the 1137 01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:40,880 Speaker 4: way that it combines different types of horror in the 1138 01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:43,960 Speaker 4: same scene. For this this greater than the sum of 1139 01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:47,440 Speaker 4: its parts effect, so that the horrors of the scene 1140 01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:52,000 Speaker 4: are both large and small, both sort of concrete and familiar, 1141 01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:54,480 Speaker 4: and then fantastical and magical. 1142 01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:55,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1143 01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:58,919 Speaker 4: Anyway, after this terrifying sequence, we see Valerian wake from 1144 01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:02,400 Speaker 4: a nightmare in a cold sweat at their camp in 1145 01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:06,040 Speaker 4: the forest, and then here at the river beside the camp, 1146 01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:08,760 Speaker 4: Galen wakes up and he decides to go bathing in 1147 01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:12,439 Speaker 4: the water, which Valerian is also doing as well, and 1148 01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:15,720 Speaker 4: in this process he discovers that Valerian is not a 1149 01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:18,920 Speaker 4: young man but a young woman in disguise, and this 1150 01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,280 Speaker 4: is where we get the story she fills him in. 1151 01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:24,520 Speaker 4: We find out that she has lived her whole life 1152 01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:27,840 Speaker 4: in public disguised as a boy to hide from the 1153 01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:33,080 Speaker 4: Vermathrax sacrifice lottery, and Galen promises he'll help her keep 1154 01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:36,000 Speaker 4: her secret. He's not going to tell anybody, and they 1155 01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,439 Speaker 4: have a conversation where Valerian reveals also that it's only 1156 01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:41,840 Speaker 4: the daughters of the common people who are in danger. 1157 01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,080 Speaker 4: If you're rich enough, if you're the daughter of the king, 1158 01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:47,439 Speaker 4: you can avoid the lottery. But of course Valerian's father 1159 01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:49,320 Speaker 4: is just a blacksmith. He's poor. 1160 01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:52,240 Speaker 1: Now on the commentary tract, they do point out like 1161 01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:57,640 Speaker 1: the obvious connection here to the military draft, particularly during 1162 01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:00,840 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties in the United States, and so there's 1163 01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:02,680 Speaker 1: you know, there's this is one of the many moments 1164 01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:05,240 Speaker 1: in the film where there's actually some there's a lot 1165 01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:07,920 Speaker 1: of food for thought in the scenario that's being drawn 1166 01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:11,880 Speaker 1: out for us here. You know, it's it's it's fantasy, Yes, 1167 01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:16,880 Speaker 1: it's it's it's supposed to be centuries ago in this, 1168 01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:20,320 Speaker 1: you know, somewhere a little adjacent to history. But he 1169 01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:23,000 Speaker 1: does have you know, there are various comparison points for 1170 01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:24,840 Speaker 1: modern life in the modern world. 1171 01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:29,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, So also in the scene, though, Galen sees 1172 01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,080 Speaker 4: a vision in the water, his like amulet activates and 1173 01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:36,320 Speaker 4: he starts to use the water surface as a divining mirror. 1174 01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:39,680 Speaker 4: And he sees soldiers riding on the road and Tyrian, 1175 01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:43,840 Speaker 4: the captain of the King's guard, overlooking the camp, drawing 1176 01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:47,360 Speaker 4: his bow. And now he sees Tyrian has shot Hodge 1177 01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:50,200 Speaker 4: with an arrow. So Galen is like, no, no, no, 1178 01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:52,560 Speaker 4: and he runs to intervene, but it's too late. Galen 1179 01:04:52,640 --> 01:04:56,440 Speaker 4: finds Hodge dying of his wound, and Hodge instructs Galen. 1180 01:04:56,520 --> 01:05:00,040 Speaker 4: He says, our master had dying wishes take the this 1181 01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:04,560 Speaker 4: pouch of Ulrich's ashes, find the lake of burning water 1182 01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:09,280 Speaker 4: and throw the ashes in, and then Hodg dies. Galen tries, 1183 01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:11,840 Speaker 4: I think, to resurrect him with magic, but this fails. 1184 01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:14,880 Speaker 4: So the stakes are up and this sort of marks 1185 01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:16,600 Speaker 4: roughly the end of act one. 1186 01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:19,320 Speaker 2: Ish Yeah, yeah, I think so. 1187 01:05:19,320 --> 01:05:22,000 Speaker 4: So Galen, Valerian, and the rest of the Erlanders make 1188 01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:24,560 Speaker 4: their way back to Dragon Country, and again lots of 1189 01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:29,320 Speaker 4: absolutely gorgeous outdoor location shots here, the landscape, the rocks 1190 01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:33,240 Speaker 4: covered in moss, waterfalls, mountains of gray boulders, and on 1191 01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:36,600 Speaker 4: the way they pass by the layer of Vermathrax pejorative 1192 01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:38,960 Speaker 4: and Galen wants to go straight to it. I think 1193 01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,080 Speaker 4: they're like, well, let's go home first. Somebody's like, no, 1194 01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:43,120 Speaker 4: get me there right now. So they go to the 1195 01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:46,320 Speaker 4: cave mouth. Galen is just he has so much zeal 1196 01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:49,760 Speaker 4: he just goes straight inside, against the warnings of Valerian 1197 01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:52,320 Speaker 4: and the others. It's very tense when he goes in 1198 01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:55,920 Speaker 4: the atmosphere and the dragon's cave is wonderful, and he 1199 01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:58,439 Speaker 4: tries to call out vermoth racks and there are these 1200 01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:01,480 Speaker 4: blasts of smoke and dust, but the dragon does not appear. 1201 01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:05,080 Speaker 4: So Galen comes back out of the cave and he's 1202 01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:07,800 Speaker 4: been told by the others that there is only one 1203 01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:10,720 Speaker 4: entrance and exit to the cave. There's no other way 1204 01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:15,280 Speaker 4: in or out, so seemingly kind of chastened by fear 1205 01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,160 Speaker 4: a little bit. Instead of going in to fight the 1206 01:06:17,240 --> 01:06:21,320 Speaker 4: dragon inside, he does a magical incantation to cause a 1207 01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:25,919 Speaker 4: boulder to fall down and plug the mouth of the cave. Again, 1208 01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:28,440 Speaker 4: we've been told this is the only entrance, but it's 1209 01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:30,560 Speaker 4: almost like he doesn't know his own strength because it 1210 01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:33,560 Speaker 4: ends up causing a gigantic rock slide with all of 1211 01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:36,840 Speaker 4: these rocks coming down and piling up over the mouth 1212 01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:39,160 Speaker 4: of the cave, and it seems to have worked. The 1213 01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:42,640 Speaker 4: mouth of the cave of Vermathrax is filled in with rocks, 1214 01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:44,320 Speaker 4: and they say he's done it. 1215 01:06:44,560 --> 01:06:47,320 Speaker 1: All right, mission accomplished, kind of like a lucky first 1216 01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:47,800 Speaker 1: blow there. 1217 01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:51,040 Speaker 4: All right, yeah, good thing, the movie's over. But it's 1218 01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:54,439 Speaker 4: not so. Back at the village, everybody is celebrating being 1219 01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:57,240 Speaker 4: freed of the dragon. There's a bonfire. They're burning the 1220 01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:00,200 Speaker 4: cult effigies of the dragon that they'd previously care eat 1221 01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:03,400 Speaker 4: up the mountain in fear. Galen is telling stories to 1222 01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,200 Speaker 4: the children, and we meet Valerian's father, who is the 1223 01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:11,600 Speaker 4: village blacksmith, and Valerian finally now free of the dragon's curse. 1224 01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:15,440 Speaker 4: She in this scene puts on address and reveals to 1225 01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:19,320 Speaker 4: everyone that she is a girl. And there's also a 1226 01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:22,120 Speaker 4: funny development in the scene, which is where we meet 1227 01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:26,360 Speaker 4: the Christian missionary and it's Ian McDermid and some of 1228 01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:29,360 Speaker 4: the villagers are talking. I think I forget the villager's name, 1229 01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:31,280 Speaker 4: but it's the one who seems to be really into 1230 01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:34,080 Speaker 4: what the Christian is saying. He's like, don't you think 1231 01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:36,360 Speaker 4: it's strange that there's a holy man in the village 1232 01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:38,680 Speaker 4: at the same time that the dragon was defeated? 1233 01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:41,880 Speaker 1: Makes you think, yeah, I think this is the character 1234 01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:46,120 Speaker 1: Griel played by Albert Salmi who lived nineteen twenty eight 1235 01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:49,920 Speaker 1: through nineteen ninety. He was an American character actor. It 1236 01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:52,120 Speaker 1: was in a bunch of things. He was in Caddy Shack, 1237 01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:55,000 Speaker 1: He was on episodes of the original Twilight Zone and 1238 01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:58,240 Speaker 1: Night Gallery. And I think his voice is dubbed in this, 1239 01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:00,480 Speaker 1: but he has a very recognized. 1240 01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:05,360 Speaker 4: M yeah, but record scratch. The party stops when soldiers 1241 01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:08,200 Speaker 4: come riding into the village on horseback, led by Tyrian, 1242 01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:10,920 Speaker 4: the captain of the King's Guard, and they're like, we 1243 01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:12,960 Speaker 4: need to take Galen off to meet the king. The 1244 01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:15,439 Speaker 4: king wants to meet the wizard who delivered them all 1245 01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:18,360 Speaker 4: from the power of the dragon, And so we see 1246 01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:21,160 Speaker 4: Peter McNichol in front of the king trying to do 1247 01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:24,240 Speaker 4: demonstrations of magic. It's not going super well, like he 1248 01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:26,639 Speaker 4: tries to levitate a table and just kind of knocks 1249 01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:27,479 Speaker 4: stuff all over. 1250 01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:29,560 Speaker 2: The place a little bit. Nothing convincing. 1251 01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:32,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, but this is where we hear the stories that 1252 01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:35,639 Speaker 4: I alluded to earlier, where the king explains like, look, 1253 01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:38,439 Speaker 4: we have tried to kill the dragon before, my brother 1254 01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:40,680 Speaker 4: tried to do it and all it led to was 1255 01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:44,920 Speaker 4: horrible reprisals from the dragon. So we have to make 1256 01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:48,400 Speaker 4: sure did you really kill the dragon? Is it really dead? 1257 01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:52,040 Speaker 4: Galen promises, yes, it is, but the king is suspicious 1258 01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:54,880 Speaker 4: of him. He doesn't believe it, so he takes Galen prisoner, 1259 01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:58,160 Speaker 4: throws him in the dungeon, takes away his magical ambulet, 1260 01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:03,000 Speaker 4: and in the dungeon, Galen meets Princess Elspeth as she 1261 01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:05,799 Speaker 4: comes in, saying like, oh, I heard you muttering spells 1262 01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:08,200 Speaker 4: in Greek and Latin. It seems like that's not working 1263 01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:10,320 Speaker 4: because you know of your amulet. But I speak Greek 1264 01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:13,840 Speaker 4: and Latin too. And in this scene they sort of 1265 01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:15,920 Speaker 4: talk about what goes on with the dragon, and it's 1266 01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:18,960 Speaker 4: revealed that she is naive about how she's been avoiding 1267 01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:22,080 Speaker 4: the Dragon's lottery. Galen fills her in like, yeah, your 1268 01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:25,160 Speaker 4: dad's covering for you, like your name's not going into 1269 01:09:25,200 --> 01:09:25,719 Speaker 4: the lottery. 1270 01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:26,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1271 01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:28,240 Speaker 1: Where she thinks, I've just I've had the same risk 1272 01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:31,599 Speaker 1: the whole time, and you know, I've been lucky. 1273 01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:33,440 Speaker 2: But he's like, no, that's. 1274 01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:37,720 Speaker 1: That's complete, complete BS. The fix is in obviously. 1275 01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:41,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, And she goes directly to her father, King Cassiodorus 1276 01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:45,200 Speaker 4: and confronts him about this, and so he's he's about 1277 01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:49,280 Speaker 4: to sort of have to answer for misleading her about this, 1278 01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:53,280 Speaker 4: letting her think that she'd been competing fairly not competing, 1279 01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:55,640 Speaker 4: and that she'd had the same fair risk as all 1280 01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:59,680 Speaker 4: the other girls. But instead they're interrupted. There's like the 1281 01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:03,519 Speaker 4: qua of the Earth and O no Vermothrax is alive 1282 01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:06,840 Speaker 4: And in the in the middle here Galen escapes the 1283 01:10:06,920 --> 01:10:09,800 Speaker 4: dungeon because the princess comes and frees him. She's she's 1284 01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:12,599 Speaker 4: sort of like his revelations have rocked her world, and 1285 01:10:12,720 --> 01:10:14,679 Speaker 4: she's like Okay, I gotta let him out of the dungeon, 1286 01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:17,600 Speaker 4: and I'm in rebellion mode. Now Galen gets on a 1287 01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:21,320 Speaker 4: horse and runs away from the castle. Meanwhile, the villagers 1288 01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:25,160 Speaker 4: are led up the mountain in terror by the Christian monk, 1289 01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:28,600 Speaker 4: by brother Jacopis, and the Christian tells them this is 1290 01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:32,400 Speaker 4: not a dragon, it's a lucifer. But Vermothrax comes out 1291 01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:35,639 Speaker 4: of the earth and faces off against the Christian wizard 1292 01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:38,920 Speaker 4: here and it is no contest. There is a breath 1293 01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:41,719 Speaker 4: of hot wind, and the dragon is so scary. 1294 01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:42,639 Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. 1295 01:10:42,720 --> 01:10:45,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is this is another great sequence. This is 1296 01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:49,360 Speaker 1: another sequence that del Toro loses his mind over because 1297 01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:52,080 Speaker 1: it's just just it's the way it's blocked, the way 1298 01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:56,519 Speaker 1: it shot, the way Vermothrax rises up out of these 1299 01:10:56,600 --> 01:11:00,680 Speaker 1: flaming pit, this flaming pit with it with these horns, 1300 01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:05,960 Speaker 1: like some sort of Satanic figure emerging out of hell, 1301 01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:09,679 Speaker 1: and then like it. Very quickly, I think becomes obvious 1302 01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:13,200 Speaker 1: to our Christian missionary friend here that he is out 1303 01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:16,200 Speaker 1: of his element, that this is not something that he's 1304 01:11:16,240 --> 01:11:18,040 Speaker 1: going to be over to be able to overcome with 1305 01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:19,320 Speaker 1: his religion and his faith. 1306 01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:23,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, he is. He is vanquished by the power of evil. 1307 01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:26,479 Speaker 4: So we cut to sometime later where we see Tyrian 1308 01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:30,439 Speaker 4: arrive at the house of Valerian and her father, and 1309 01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:32,920 Speaker 4: Tyrian and his men are searching the village for Galen. 1310 01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:35,160 Speaker 4: So they're going around the house like looking in baskets 1311 01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:37,960 Speaker 4: and stuff, being like, oh, it's the wizard hiding in here, 1312 01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:42,799 Speaker 4: And Tyrian threatens that you know what, because the dragon 1313 01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:45,439 Speaker 4: is now so angry that somebody tried to go kill him, 1314 01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:49,160 Speaker 4: there's going to need to be an early sacrifice ahead 1315 01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:51,960 Speaker 4: of schedule. And you know what, now that everybody knows 1316 01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:54,120 Speaker 4: about your daughter, she's going to have to be in 1317 01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:57,679 Speaker 4: the lottery too. And they try, they try to find Galen, 1318 01:11:57,680 --> 01:11:59,400 Speaker 4: but they don't find him anywhere, so they leave and 1319 01:11:59,439 --> 01:12:01,439 Speaker 4: it turns out to he was hiding in like a 1320 01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:03,840 Speaker 4: secret compartment under the anvil. 1321 01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:06,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, standard issue. 1322 01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:09,160 Speaker 4: I think, yeah, But here we get a forging the 1323 01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:11,920 Speaker 4: weapon sequence where we find about how we find out 1324 01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:17,519 Speaker 4: that Valerian's father has created a secret dragon slaying weapon 1325 01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:20,639 Speaker 4: that he's got like hidden in this cage that's hidden 1326 01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:23,479 Speaker 4: behind a waterfall. That this is really cool. It's like 1327 01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:26,240 Speaker 4: this giant spear that he's made. But he never had 1328 01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:29,439 Speaker 4: the courage to use it himself. And Galen sees it. 1329 01:12:29,439 --> 01:12:32,360 Speaker 4: He says, it's a beautiful weapon, but it will be 1330 01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:35,639 Speaker 4: useless unless he unless he has the ambulet back. That's 1331 01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:38,040 Speaker 4: the only way he can, like, I think, infuse it 1332 01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:40,320 Speaker 4: with the power it needs to fight the dragon. 1333 01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:40,920 Speaker 1: Yea. 1334 01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:44,000 Speaker 4: Then we get the big lottery scene where they're going 1335 01:12:44,040 --> 01:12:47,320 Speaker 4: to select who has to face the dragon next and 1336 01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:49,840 Speaker 4: who gets picked when they pull the tiles out of 1337 01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:53,840 Speaker 4: the big pot. Why it's el Smeth, the princess. The 1338 01:12:53,920 --> 01:12:56,759 Speaker 4: king tries to say, like, no, no, no, my minister 1339 01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:59,000 Speaker 4: read the name on the tile wrong. Let us draw 1340 01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:02,840 Speaker 4: another tile. But all the tiles say Elsbeth. In fact, 1341 01:13:02,920 --> 01:13:06,080 Speaker 4: she arranged it that way because she thinks it's only 1342 01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:09,439 Speaker 4: fair given that she has been protected unfairly all these 1343 01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:13,519 Speaker 4: years past. There's no changing it. She's now selected. The 1344 01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:16,400 Speaker 4: king is desperate, trying to talk anybody into helping him 1345 01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:19,040 Speaker 4: get out of this, Like he tries to talk Tyrian 1346 01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:21,760 Speaker 4: into saying, let's figure something else out. It can't be her, 1347 01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,360 Speaker 4: But Tyrian's like, yeah, it seems fair to me. 1348 01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:27,760 Speaker 1: This is a great sequence, and I love how I mean, 1349 01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:29,840 Speaker 1: first of all, for plot reasons, they do it this way. 1350 01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:32,920 Speaker 1: But also I think it plays into the overall theme 1351 01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:35,680 Speaker 1: of the picture. There's this sense that the lottery is 1352 01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:38,920 Speaker 1: this thing that, once it has been created, is no 1353 01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:42,960 Speaker 1: longer entirely in control, in the control of the king 1354 01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:46,280 Speaker 1: and his men, you know, Like there's this energy between 1355 01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:50,840 Speaker 1: the king and his men and the crowd, like they're channing, 1356 01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:53,200 Speaker 1: stir the tiles, stir the tals with kind of urgency, 1357 01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:55,120 Speaker 1: like you know, obviously like stir it up. You've got 1358 01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:56,920 Speaker 1: to make sure it's fair, got to make sure it's fair. 1359 01:13:56,960 --> 01:14:01,040 Speaker 1: Like it's this great kind of semi chaotic feeling that 1360 01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:04,040 Speaker 1: things could get out of hand very easily. 1361 01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:07,120 Speaker 4: That's right. It's almost like the people themselves have a 1362 01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:10,920 Speaker 4: frenzy for the outcome of the lottery selection. So the 1363 01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:15,080 Speaker 4: king feels utterly helpless, like he can't really and it's 1364 01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:18,120 Speaker 4: happened in public, so he can't really undo it. So 1365 01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:21,280 Speaker 4: he thinks, of the only other thing that occurs to 1366 01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:24,320 Speaker 4: him is we have to actually kill the dragon. So 1367 01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:27,960 Speaker 4: he catches Galen, having snuck back into the castle looking 1368 01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:30,519 Speaker 4: for his amulet. He catches him and he begs him, 1369 01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:32,920 Speaker 4: and he says, you can have your amulet back. If 1370 01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:35,960 Speaker 4: you kill the dragon and save el Smith. So Galen 1371 01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:38,320 Speaker 4: has been given like official sanction. Now we see him 1372 01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:41,639 Speaker 4: in the Blacksmith trying to like magically fire the dragon 1373 01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:45,479 Speaker 4: slayer weapon, like using the amulet to power up the spear. 1374 01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:48,400 Speaker 4: I love the following scene, by the way, there's a 1375 01:14:48,400 --> 01:14:51,559 Speaker 4: scene where Valerian goes up up the mountain to collect 1376 01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:56,639 Speaker 4: scales from the dragon to make for Galen a dragon 1377 01:14:56,720 --> 01:15:00,280 Speaker 4: scale shield that he can use to face firm a threat. 1378 01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:02,920 Speaker 4: Oh and also while she's up there, she discovers there 1379 01:15:03,160 --> 01:15:05,639 Speaker 4: they're baby dragons in the cave and they are also 1380 01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:07,520 Speaker 4: scary and must also be destroyed. 1381 01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:10,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, they are not cute, and they, and I say 1382 01:15:10,120 --> 01:15:12,799 Speaker 1: this lovingly, they have some real Gromlin energy. 1383 01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:14,280 Speaker 2: They did. It's great. 1384 01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:16,920 Speaker 1: So this is a definite puppetry used here, but to 1385 01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:17,599 Speaker 1: great effect. 1386 01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:20,200 Speaker 4: These Verma Thras babies would be popping out of a 1387 01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:25,000 Speaker 4: toilet in another movie or another movie cover some VHS 1388 01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:27,840 Speaker 4: box art. But also, oh, here we get the culmination 1389 01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:31,799 Speaker 4: of a I think, if I'm going to be fully honest, 1390 01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:34,960 Speaker 4: a somewhat underdeveloped love story. But you know what, it's fine. 1391 01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:36,080 Speaker 4: It's fantasy adventure. 1392 01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:38,519 Speaker 1: There's just kind of like acknowledge it, like we we're 1393 01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:41,320 Speaker 1: most of the way into this picture. We love each other, right, Yeah, yeah, 1394 01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:41,800 Speaker 1: of course we. 1395 01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:44,800 Speaker 4: Did, right. Galen and Valerian they announced their love with 1396 01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:47,679 Speaker 4: the in love with each other. Valerian initially thinks, oh, Galen, 1397 01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:50,240 Speaker 4: you must be in love with the princess, but he's like, no, no, no, 1398 01:15:50,200 --> 01:15:52,000 Speaker 4: I love you a good thing. 1399 01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:55,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, silly duck. That relationship hasn't been established either. 1400 01:16:05,240 --> 01:16:09,520 Speaker 4: This all leads up to the Great Final Confrontation, where 1401 01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:12,360 Speaker 4: Elsbeth is taken up to be sacrificed to the dragon. 1402 01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:16,679 Speaker 4: Galen appears and announces his intention to kill the dragon first, 1403 01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:20,920 Speaker 4: and everybody runs away in fear, everyone but Tyrian, and 1404 01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:24,000 Speaker 4: Tyrian says, you know this is the way, and if 1405 01:16:24,040 --> 01:16:27,400 Speaker 4: you intend to interfere with the sacrifice, I will stop you. 1406 01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:31,439 Speaker 4: And they fight and initially Galen is not a fighter, 1407 01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:34,759 Speaker 4: he's not trained to fight a captain of the King's Guard, 1408 01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:37,880 Speaker 4: but through a combination of pluck and luck, he does 1409 01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:39,320 Speaker 4: prevail in this duel. 1410 01:16:39,640 --> 01:16:43,120 Speaker 1: He also has a magical spear weapon, which he doesn't 1411 01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:45,960 Speaker 1: completely know how to use, but it is a magical weapon, 1412 01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:47,799 Speaker 1: so he's got like a plus three on this baby. 1413 01:16:47,960 --> 01:16:52,200 Speaker 4: Exactly, so the princess. Yeah, it's funny. It's like it's 1414 01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:56,080 Speaker 4: a hand to hand combat battle between what would you say, 1415 01:16:56,120 --> 01:17:01,240 Speaker 4: like a level six fighter versus a level two sorcerers. Yeah, 1416 01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:04,240 Speaker 4: but yeah, he has a magical weapon, so it makes 1417 01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:06,880 Speaker 4: up the difference. But it was kind of all for 1418 01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:10,680 Speaker 4: nothing here because the princess determined to be a sacrifice. 1419 01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:13,120 Speaker 4: She's like, no, it's got to happen. She runs into 1420 01:17:13,200 --> 01:17:17,040 Speaker 4: the cave and then Galen runs in after her, and 1421 01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:23,240 Speaker 4: in a really shockingly unexpected and horrifying scene, the princess 1422 01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:27,400 Speaker 4: is in there just being like eaten up by baby dragons. 1423 01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:30,400 Speaker 4: They're just like tearing off her limbs and eating them. 1424 01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:33,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, they have what They've killed her and are now 1425 01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:34,400 Speaker 1: like taking her apart. 1426 01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:35,960 Speaker 4: Unbelievable. 1427 01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:40,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, these little like disgusting little gromlins. And yeah, it's 1428 01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:45,280 Speaker 1: really a daring choice for again, a Disney co produced 1429 01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:50,200 Speaker 1: fantasy answer to Star Wars picture. I remember the Yeah, 1430 01:17:50,439 --> 01:17:53,559 Speaker 1: the director in commentary with del Toro kind of said, 1431 01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:55,040 Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of stuff we got away 1432 01:17:55,080 --> 01:17:58,240 Speaker 1: with in this in part because we were making a 1433 01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:04,000 Speaker 1: film abroad and you know, so far from from studio heads, 1434 01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:06,080 Speaker 1: and so they you know, they weren't getting dailies. 1435 01:18:06,120 --> 01:18:06,760 Speaker 2: They didn't know that. 1436 01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:09,280 Speaker 1: You know, we had, you know, the way we were 1437 01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:10,479 Speaker 1: shooting some of these choices. 1438 01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:13,760 Speaker 4: Well, the movie is the more remarkable for it these 1439 01:18:13,800 --> 01:18:14,519 Speaker 4: are choices. 1440 01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:15,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1441 01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:19,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, So Galen goes in and fights the baby dragons, uh, 1442 01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:22,280 Speaker 4: and he defeats them pretty easily. But then he goes 1443 01:18:22,320 --> 01:18:26,120 Speaker 4: deeper into the cave and finds a burning lake. Now 1444 01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:28,240 Speaker 4: that meant something to me when I saw it, but 1445 01:18:28,400 --> 01:18:31,400 Speaker 4: apparently Galen doesn't really remember at this point, like, oh yeah, 1446 01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:34,840 Speaker 4: that's significant. It will come up again. But there's a 1447 01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:38,639 Speaker 4: big confrontation here between Galen and Vermathrax. They have their 1448 01:18:38,720 --> 01:18:41,760 Speaker 4: first big fight and the dragon and the scene is 1449 01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:46,000 Speaker 4: finally revealed in all of its hideous glory, and wow, Rob, 1450 01:18:46,040 --> 01:18:48,800 Speaker 4: would you like to say anything about what what Vermothrax 1451 01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:50,160 Speaker 4: looks like when revealed? 1452 01:18:50,280 --> 01:18:50,439 Speaker 3: Oh? 1453 01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:52,040 Speaker 1: I mean there's so many ways to approach it. I 1454 01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:53,880 Speaker 1: mean the simple thing to say is like, this is 1455 01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:58,000 Speaker 1: a real dragon, like you feel, Yeah, you can put 1456 01:18:58,040 --> 01:19:01,519 Speaker 1: your mind in the appreciating the spec effects and trying 1457 01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:03,120 Speaker 1: to see all the things they've done to bring this 1458 01:19:03,200 --> 01:19:05,479 Speaker 1: dragon to life. But for most of this it just 1459 01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:09,920 Speaker 1: feels like a real creature, and they make so many 1460 01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:12,920 Speaker 1: wonderful choices in the design to make that possible, things 1461 01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:17,880 Speaker 1: like making sure that is a quadruped that it doesn't 1462 01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:24,080 Speaker 1: have like four limbs plus wings. Its front limbs are wings. 1463 01:19:24,120 --> 01:19:26,679 Speaker 1: And therefore when it's crawling around in the cave, it's 1464 01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:28,240 Speaker 1: moving like a bat. 1465 01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:28,799 Speaker 2: On the ground. 1466 01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:32,000 Speaker 4: The bat comparison. That's great. The way the wings are 1467 01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:33,400 Speaker 4: folded as it crawls. 1468 01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:36,920 Speaker 1: Ugh, yeah, yeah. And then the way they've shaped the head. 1469 01:19:37,000 --> 01:19:39,040 Speaker 1: A lot of a lot of a lot of folks 1470 01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:41,000 Speaker 1: have pointed out like it has this kind of brow, 1471 01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:46,160 Speaker 1: so it has a lot of like I want to say, personality, 1472 01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:52,280 Speaker 1: but personality befitting a great beastly dragon like this. You know, 1473 01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:54,679 Speaker 1: there is an animal intelligence there. 1474 01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:57,000 Speaker 4: It reminds me a bit of a Skexis. 1475 01:19:57,240 --> 01:19:59,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a solid comparisons. 1476 01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:02,639 Speaker 4: So they fight and they there's a bunch that goes 1477 01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:04,479 Speaker 4: on in this fight. They get their jabs in, it 1478 01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:07,760 Speaker 4: blows fire and all that, but it's a stalemate here. 1479 01:20:07,800 --> 01:20:10,439 Speaker 4: The fight is not fully resolved. And the next day 1480 01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:13,640 Speaker 4: Valerian goes up the mountain and she finds Galen unconscious 1481 01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:15,720 Speaker 4: on the rocks. She wakes him and takes him back, 1482 01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:17,839 Speaker 4: but he is still alive, and so is the dragon. 1483 01:20:19,160 --> 01:20:22,280 Speaker 4: So at this point, Valerian's father talks them into leaving 1484 01:20:22,520 --> 01:20:24,639 Speaker 4: or Land. He's like, you know, y'all are young, you're 1485 01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:27,280 Speaker 4: in love. Just live in peace, go somewhere else and 1486 01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:31,040 Speaker 4: share your love, he says. He says, magic magicians, it's 1487 01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:33,880 Speaker 4: all fading from the world, all dying out. That makes 1488 01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:36,920 Speaker 4: me happy. That means the dragons will be dying out too. 1489 01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:39,920 Speaker 4: And they try to leave. They take their stuff and 1490 01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:42,280 Speaker 4: they start loading up a boat to go live their 1491 01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:46,400 Speaker 4: lives somewhere else. But then something changes. There's a darkness 1492 01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:50,679 Speaker 4: growing in the sky and it is a total solar eclipse. Yeah, 1493 01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:54,200 Speaker 4: and here's your eclipse tie in the eclipse. I don't 1494 01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:57,120 Speaker 4: know if maybe I miss something about this, if they 1495 01:20:57,160 --> 01:21:00,519 Speaker 4: said it had any particular magical effect on the dragon. 1496 01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:03,120 Speaker 4: But one thing it does seem to do is cause 1497 01:21:03,200 --> 01:21:08,080 Speaker 4: Galen to remember that his master Ulric wanted his ashes 1498 01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:10,759 Speaker 4: to be thrown into the burning lake, and he remembers 1499 01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:13,960 Speaker 4: there was a lake of fire inside the dragon's cave. 1500 01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:17,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was. My wife watched this movie with me 1501 01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:20,439 Speaker 1: for rewatch it. She had seen it before many years ago, 1502 01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:23,439 Speaker 1: and afterwards we were like, yeah, did anybody say there 1503 01:21:23,479 --> 01:21:25,760 Speaker 1: was going to be an eclipse? Is that factored into 1504 01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:27,519 Speaker 1: the plot at all? It does very much feel like 1505 01:21:27,880 --> 01:21:30,679 Speaker 1: and then a total So a total solar eclipse happens 1506 01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:32,519 Speaker 1: because it looks awesome. 1507 01:21:33,439 --> 01:21:36,120 Speaker 4: It does look awesome, and there is a total solar 1508 01:21:36,120 --> 01:21:39,200 Speaker 4: eclipse going on for the entire rest of the Showdown 1509 01:21:39,240 --> 01:21:39,839 Speaker 4: with the Dragon. 1510 01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:43,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like it's a good, solid twenty minutes of totality. 1511 01:21:43,720 --> 01:21:48,479 Speaker 4: Yeah, so Galen does remember this. He does as he 1512 01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:51,719 Speaker 4: was instructed. He goes back up to the Dragon's cave, 1513 01:21:51,880 --> 01:21:55,519 Speaker 4: goes inside, throws the ashes into the water, and in 1514 01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:59,800 Speaker 4: a cradle of green fire, Ulric is resurrected. He's back. 1515 01:22:00,040 --> 01:22:03,960 Speaker 4: The power of the Dragon's fiery lake like brought him 1516 01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:06,720 Speaker 4: back from the dead, at least temporarily, so he can 1517 01:22:06,800 --> 01:22:08,920 Speaker 4: face the dragon with them. 1518 01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:10,960 Speaker 1: I have to say, I wasn't sure this was gonna happen. 1519 01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:14,160 Speaker 1: It's easy to in retrospect expect this to happen, but 1520 01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:18,240 Speaker 1: Ulric's death early in the picture just felt so final 1521 01:22:18,439 --> 01:22:24,320 Speaker 1: and so yeah, Mundane like it just the film worked. 1522 01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:27,240 Speaker 1: The trick worked here, and I really wasn't expecting him 1523 01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:27,800 Speaker 1: to come back. 1524 01:22:28,439 --> 01:22:30,479 Speaker 4: Meanwhile, you know, back down in the village, this is 1525 01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:32,920 Speaker 4: when one of the guys is converted to Christianity, the 1526 01:22:32,960 --> 01:22:36,960 Speaker 4: gray old guy, and he's baptizing everybody. Yeah, and then 1527 01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:39,520 Speaker 4: we get the final showdown. So now it is Vermathrax 1528 01:22:39,680 --> 01:22:43,559 Speaker 4: versus the three of our heroes, Galen, Valerian and Ulrich, 1529 01:22:44,520 --> 01:22:47,120 Speaker 4: and so Ulrich goes up on like a mountain peak 1530 01:22:47,240 --> 01:22:50,599 Speaker 4: and he's casting down lightning bolts at the dragon and 1531 01:22:50,640 --> 01:22:54,040 Speaker 4: the dragon is dive bombing him. Vermathrax is like flying 1532 01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:56,320 Speaker 4: by the dragon in the scene, has a kind of 1533 01:22:56,520 --> 01:22:58,920 Speaker 4: jet fighter quality to him, you know what I mean. 1534 01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:01,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I believe it was one of the 1535 01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:05,200 Speaker 1: extras with Phil tipp that talking about, though it might 1536 01:23:05,200 --> 01:23:06,880 Speaker 1: have been Phil Tippitt, but I don't think Phil Tippet 1537 01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:10,680 Speaker 1: did these effects sequences so much. I mean he was, 1538 01:23:10,880 --> 01:23:12,920 Speaker 1: I think therefore it, but he was. I think he 1539 01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:15,080 Speaker 1: did with some of the other stuff more. But they 1540 01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:17,840 Speaker 1: did talk about how, like most of the scenes of 1541 01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:20,439 Speaker 1: the dragon in flight, you're not getting that flapping, sort 1542 01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:24,799 Speaker 1: of labored takeoff effect that we've seen in other Dragon films. 1543 01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:28,360 Speaker 1: This is a dragon like swooping down from peaks and 1544 01:23:28,439 --> 01:23:32,040 Speaker 1: indeed flying with this kind of like fighter jet kind 1545 01:23:32,080 --> 01:23:35,639 Speaker 1: of severity, so we have very effective It's. 1546 01:23:35,479 --> 01:23:38,280 Speaker 4: Almost like you can hear a jet engine roaring as 1547 01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:41,080 Speaker 4: he goes by, and he goes by so fast. 1548 01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:42,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1549 01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:45,559 Speaker 4: A lot of other movie dragons have more of a 1550 01:23:45,600 --> 01:23:48,120 Speaker 4: helicopter quality, you know, they just kind of like hover 1551 01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:51,479 Speaker 4: around somewhere. This one like swoops, he goes really fast. 1552 01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:52,480 Speaker 2: Yeah. 1553 01:23:52,520 --> 01:23:54,920 Speaker 4: And what Galen and Valierian have been told to do 1554 01:23:55,080 --> 01:23:58,000 Speaker 4: is to smash the magical amulet at the right time. 1555 01:23:58,040 --> 01:23:59,760 Speaker 4: They're going to know when it's the right time, and 1556 01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:03,120 Speaker 4: ultimately Ulric is snatched up by the dragon. He's being 1557 01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:06,200 Speaker 4: carried away. They know, okay, it's the time. Now, they 1558 01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:10,680 Speaker 4: smash the amulet, and this apparently has like a detonation 1559 01:24:10,840 --> 01:24:15,320 Speaker 4: effect on Ulric. That's like the detonator for Ulric's resurrected form, 1560 01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:19,720 Speaker 4: and it blows up the dragon. The eclipse ends. Vermicthrax 1561 01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:23,519 Speaker 4: is dead. There's a big, gory, charred skeleton laying on 1562 01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:26,240 Speaker 4: the ground. And who gets credit. Well, they bring the 1563 01:24:26,320 --> 01:24:30,280 Speaker 4: king in. They bring him up in a carriage and 1564 01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:32,120 Speaker 4: they hand him a sword and he stands there and 1565 01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:34,479 Speaker 4: he just kind of pokes the corpse of the dragon 1566 01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:36,519 Speaker 4: and they're like, congratulations, sire. 1567 01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:38,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so. 1568 01:24:39,640 --> 01:24:44,599 Speaker 1: He ends up appropriating the church, the Kingship, the rulers, 1569 01:24:45,600 --> 01:24:49,400 Speaker 1: as Del Toro puts it, the man co ops everything completely, 1570 01:24:51,080 --> 01:24:52,840 Speaker 1: completely claims all the. 1571 01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:55,120 Speaker 2: Credit for the victory over the dragon. 1572 01:24:55,360 --> 01:24:59,599 Speaker 4: Yeah that's right. The now baptized villagers come up and say, 1573 01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:02,160 Speaker 4: ah does the church that saved us from the dragon. 1574 01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:05,880 Speaker 4: But there's also a nice ending where we see Galen 1575 01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:08,400 Speaker 4: and Valuria and they're still in love. They've survived this 1576 01:25:08,479 --> 01:25:10,559 Speaker 4: and they get to travel on together and who knows 1577 01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:13,760 Speaker 4: what kind of adventures of pagan sorcery they can get 1578 01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:15,960 Speaker 4: up to in this rapidly christianizing land. 1579 01:25:16,120 --> 01:25:19,080 Speaker 1: The end, yeah, their final there's this final bit where 1580 01:25:19,080 --> 01:25:21,360 Speaker 1: they sort of accidentally summon a horse, like a really 1581 01:25:21,400 --> 01:25:24,439 Speaker 1: beautiful horse, which is, you know, it's a little bit 1582 01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:26,439 Speaker 1: kind of like cheesey ended on a nice note, but 1583 01:25:26,520 --> 01:25:28,680 Speaker 1: also I like it. I was talking about this with 1584 01:25:28,760 --> 01:25:30,960 Speaker 1: my wife's she was like, yeah, it's kind of like 1585 01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:33,559 Speaker 1: there is still magic, it's just a different type of magic, 1586 01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:37,880 Speaker 1: you know. And so the world, at least for these 1587 01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:40,439 Speaker 1: two characters, is not going to be devoid of magic, 1588 01:25:40,479 --> 01:25:42,559 Speaker 1: but maybe magic ends up taking a different form. 1589 01:25:43,080 --> 01:25:48,240 Speaker 4: Maybe it increasingly looks less and less like hidden forces 1590 01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:51,960 Speaker 4: operating and more and more like luck. Yeah, anyway, that's 1591 01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:54,600 Speaker 4: what I have on Dragon Slayer. But I'm glad you 1592 01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:56,639 Speaker 4: picked this one, Rob. I really really liked it. 1593 01:25:57,320 --> 01:26:00,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean credit to my wife for that. 1594 01:26:00,200 --> 01:26:00,240 Speaker 3: Was. 1595 01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:02,360 Speaker 1: I was looking at a number of things for this week, 1596 01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:03,559 Speaker 1: and she was like, well, we got to watch an 1597 01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:07,600 Speaker 1: Eclipse movie, dude, dragon Slayer, and so I was like like, 1598 01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:09,519 Speaker 1: well maybe, and she's like, I'll watch it with you. 1599 01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:13,439 Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, So she doesn't always always watch him 1600 01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:13,640 Speaker 2: with me. 1601 01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:17,880 Speaker 1: It's a lot to ask. So so yeah, this was 1602 01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:19,599 Speaker 1: a lot of fun. Oh and you know, I forgot 1603 01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:21,519 Speaker 1: to mention and mention the special effects. I do want 1604 01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:24,200 Speaker 1: to call out that one of the main individuals credited 1605 01:26:24,240 --> 01:26:27,360 Speaker 1: with the design of the dragon and also the typeface 1606 01:26:27,960 --> 01:26:31,960 Speaker 1: was man by the name of David Bunnett, who you know, 1607 01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:34,400 Speaker 1: I think also worked in like the video game industry. 1608 01:26:35,160 --> 01:26:38,240 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's even said that if you look at 1609 01:26:38,800 --> 01:26:41,840 Speaker 1: a picture of this guy, the dragon kind of looks 1610 01:26:41,880 --> 01:26:45,040 Speaker 1: like a self caricature, Like there's sort of elements of 1611 01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:50,639 Speaker 1: his face, like his brow and the dragon. So anyway, 1612 01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:52,400 Speaker 1: you know, it's a credit where credit is. 1613 01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:53,040 Speaker 2: A du there. 1614 01:26:53,880 --> 01:26:57,280 Speaker 1: He had a hand in designing this tremendous dragon whoa 1615 01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:00,479 Speaker 1: vermathrax pajorative. 1616 01:27:00,680 --> 01:27:03,040 Speaker 4: A finer name has never been conjured. 1617 01:27:05,720 --> 01:27:07,920 Speaker 1: All right, we'll go and close it up here then, 1618 01:27:08,080 --> 01:27:09,800 Speaker 1: but we'd love to hear from everyone out there. Do 1619 01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:14,000 Speaker 1: you have memories of seeing dragons Layer for the first time, 1620 01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:18,760 Speaker 1: be that in a theater, on video or like on 1621 01:27:18,800 --> 01:27:21,080 Speaker 1: a Sunday afternoon on A and E. I think they 1622 01:27:21,120 --> 01:27:24,439 Speaker 1: were they aired it there. I remember seeing promos for it. 1623 01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:25,000 Speaker 2: Write in. 1624 01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:27,719 Speaker 1: We would love to hear from you. Just a reminder 1625 01:27:27,800 --> 01:27:30,760 Speaker 1: that Weird House Cinema is the Friday episode that we 1626 01:27:30,840 --> 01:27:32,639 Speaker 1: published in the Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast feed. 1627 01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:35,479 Speaker 1: We're primarily science and culture podcasts, but on Fridays we 1628 01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:37,720 Speaker 1: set aside most serious concerns to just talk about a 1629 01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:40,080 Speaker 1: weird film here on Weird House Cinema. And if you 1630 01:27:40,120 --> 01:27:41,599 Speaker 1: want to see a list of all the movies we've 1631 01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:44,040 Speaker 1: covered over the years, go to letterbox dot com. It's 1632 01:27:44,120 --> 01:27:45,439 Speaker 1: L E T T E R B O x D 1633 01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:48,439 Speaker 1: dot com. Look for us. Our username is weird House. 1634 01:27:48,560 --> 01:27:51,000 Speaker 1: You'll find a list of everything we've covered and sometimes 1635 01:27:51,320 --> 01:27:53,040 Speaker 1: a glimpse at what's coming up next? 1636 01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:57,400 Speaker 4: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. 1637 01:27:57,760 --> 01:27:59,320 Speaker 4: If you would like to get in touch with us 1638 01:27:59,320 --> 01:28:02,280 Speaker 4: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 1639 01:28:02,360 --> 01:28:04,400 Speaker 4: a topic for the future, or just to say hi, 1640 01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:07,240 Speaker 4: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow 1641 01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:14,960 Speaker 4: your Mind dot com. 1642 01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:18,000 Speaker 3: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 1643 01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:20,880 Speaker 3: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 1644 01:28:21,040 --> 01:28:24,280 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.