Speaker 1: It's the Son of a Butch podcast. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Claude Harmon. This week's guest definitely someone that I've been
Speaker 1: trying to get on the podcast for a very very
Speaker 1: long time. We're trying to match schedules, and he was
Speaker 1: over in Florida right around the end of last year
Speaker 1: and got to spend some time with him. Tommy Fleetwood listen.
Speaker 1: I'm a huge Tommy Fleetwood fan. I love his golf swing.
Speaker 1: I think his golf swing's one of the best in
Speaker 1: the game. I like the way he plays, but as
Speaker 1: a person is just such a great guy. Works with
Speaker 1: my dad, Butch Harmon now lives in Dubai. We've done
Speaker 1: some work in our junior program with his two boys,
Speaker 1: Oscar and Craig, who we talk about in the pod.
Speaker 1: And I'm just like I said, I'm just a fan.
Speaker 1: I think it's only a matter of time before he
Speaker 1: wins a major, wins a big tournament. That's kind of
Speaker 1: the game that I think he has. But I think
Speaker 1: he's one of the coolest guys in the game of
Speaker 1: golf and someone who if he's hitting golf balls on
Speaker 1: the range, I will stop and take a look at
Speaker 1: the golf swing, so really really good one. This is
Speaker 1: Tommy Fleet would Tommy, We've been trying to do this
Speaker 1: for a while, so it's kind of cool to do it.
Speaker 1: End of the year for you twenty twenty four, as
Speaker 1: a player told me, when you look at your season,
Speaker 1: how do you grade it? I mean, as coaches, I
Speaker 1: know how we look at our players and gread it.
Speaker 1: But I'm always interested as a player. I mean, you
Speaker 1: only miss two cuts, four top tens, third at the Masters.
Speaker 1: I mean solid year. You won on is it DP
Speaker 1: World at the beginning of the year, but no wins,
Speaker 1: but a bunch of top twenty fives. I think you're
Speaker 1: one of the best players in the game. I think
Speaker 1: you've got one of the best golf swings in the game.
Speaker 1: But when you grade, you sell that.
Speaker 2: I have to say that, trust me, I don't.
Speaker 1: When you grade yourself. What's the grade you give this year?
Speaker 2: I think, I think it's been a good jet And
Speaker 2: I always like I struggle with I struggle with grades
Speaker 2: because it's like, you know, what what is what? What
Speaker 2: is this successful? You know exactly what Sky going to
Speaker 2: give himself because if Skuy's giving himself an A and
Speaker 2: now I'm like a you like, but you know, I
Speaker 2: think I've had I think I've had a really good year,
Speaker 2: and I think, you know, there's there's two sides of it.
Speaker 2: There's there's a at the end of the day, obviously,
Speaker 2: the results are kind of the only thing that matters
Speaker 2: because they're the things in black and white. But there's
Speaker 2: also a level of performance. There's where your game has
Speaker 2: been at. And I think I've played very, very consistent,
Speaker 2: almost as consistent as I've ever been, if not the
Speaker 2: most consistent with I would say enough like disappointment in
Speaker 2: there and kind of on the edge of yeah, it's
Speaker 2: on the edge of me competing a lot for tournaments,
Speaker 2: whereas I've just been just a fraction off. So enough
Speaker 2: of that to keep you, keep you motivated, keep you
Speaker 2: like striving for more in a way, So I've had
Speaker 2: a good year. And like you say, when you when
Speaker 2: you rattle it off, you know, I did win. At
Speaker 2: the start of the year, Masters was a you know,
Speaker 2: a great week. The Olympics was something that was unbelievably
Speaker 2: and then you know, I made it again. I think
Speaker 2: it's under it's underrated how hard it is to make
Speaker 2: it to Atlanta, to make it to East Lake, and
Speaker 2: you know, I was having a you know, I had
Speaker 2: a solid year on the DP world so two, so
Speaker 2: there was a lot of good. How do I grade it,
Speaker 2: I'm not quite sure. I just know that I'm happy
Speaker 2: with a lot and unhappy enough to keep working, you know,
Speaker 2: to keep working hard and wanting more.
Speaker 1: What do you feel like you're better at the end
Speaker 1: of this season in twenty twenty four than you were
Speaker 1: last year?
Speaker 2: Now? That is that is a great question. I think
Speaker 2: my level of play across the board is probably fractionally higher.
Speaker 2: I think I've definitely played more consistent this year. I
Speaker 2: probably had better results last year.
Speaker 1: It's funny how that can happen.
Speaker 2: But I've been more consistent and I've been.
Speaker 1: More consistent, but the results don't show it exactly. So
Speaker 1: that's such a weird one because it is you as
Speaker 1: the player know what and as the outside looking in
Speaker 1: my my role of scorch, I can never get in
Speaker 1: the players heads, bodies and stuff. So there will be
Speaker 1: times where I think one of the guys will play
Speaker 1: good and I didn't really play that good day, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, dude, you played good, and they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I wasn't good. And then there's times where I'll think
Speaker 1: they've played bad and they're gonna Actually I have played
Speaker 1: pretty good so this year And you say you feel
Speaker 1: like you're more consistent this year for you, what does
Speaker 1: that mean? And how do you explain what being more
Speaker 1: consistent this year versus last year is?
Speaker 2: I would say, so I had I had three or
Speaker 2: four really bad days, I would say there was one
Speaker 2: at bay Hill where I'd lost my swing, and I
Speaker 2: don't I can't remember how many balls in the water
Speaker 2: on the the part five at sixth and the day
Speaker 2: the day got away and the Open. This year I
Speaker 2: played really poor when I expected more for myself. But
Speaker 2: in general, my bad days have been better. My game has,
Speaker 2: like we can week in week out, whether you have
Speaker 2: you know, one or two sort of dodgy days in
Speaker 2: practice and then you might not quite play one over
Speaker 2: the period of four day Tournamentich you know, you know
Speaker 2: you're never going to play great for seventy two holes.
Speaker 2: Yeah did back in the day, But I think that
Speaker 2: has been at a high level. My lower end, like
Speaker 2: I said, aside from like one or two like outrageously
Speaker 2: poor days, but in general, like my lower end has
Speaker 2: been has been that bit better. So that's kept me
Speaker 2: in results wise, that has kept my lower end higher,
Speaker 2: so that that's been really good. I didn't put like
Speaker 2: I so I had. I had a really good spell
Speaker 2: of putting in the middle of the year, and then
Speaker 2: from the summer onwards I started I just I struggled
Speaker 2: a bit, like and you have to you have periods
Speaker 2: when you look at because we're just talking about a year,
Speaker 2: but like you always assess the year, but you never
Speaker 2: assess like four years or five years or three year
Speaker 2: in the cycle. And eventually I remember saying that. I
Speaker 2: remember I was. I was at the Masters in twenty
Speaker 2: one maybe, and I was I was playing really bad,
Speaker 2: you know, I was playing rubbish. And I remember speaking
Speaker 2: to Marko Mira and he was talking about the game.
Speaker 2: He says, you've been playing really well, and I said, well, actually,
Speaker 2: I said, I've been on a bit of a bad
Speaker 2: stretch and you know, I've struggled here and I can't
Speaker 2: remember what my bill dranking had gone down to. And
Speaker 2: he just looked at me and he went, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's golf, like it's called golf. And he's gone, like,
Speaker 2: you'll you know these things when you look at it
Speaker 2: over time, like, it's not that bad. It's just like
Speaker 2: a slight dip compared to you know, the rest of
Speaker 2: the rest of the time. So I think you obviously
Speaker 2: boiled things down to a year and yeah, the second
Speaker 2: half of the year, like somewher onwards, I could have
Speaker 2: put it better in a lot of tournaments and that
Speaker 2: probably cost me a bit, But in general I put
Speaker 2: it well at the you know, middle part of the year,
Speaker 2: drove it really well. I'm played pretty good. Yeah, where
Speaker 2: am I compared to a year ago? It's a great question.
Speaker 2: I would say just a little bit more consistent lower
Speaker 2: end was that fraction bit better.
Speaker 1: I think the fans always hate it when guys play
Speaker 1: well and they go, yeah, I didn't have my game today. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it is I think at the level that you
Speaker 1: guys are trying to play at, at the elite tour level,
Speaker 1: it is trying to make your bad days that little
Speaker 1: bit better so that they keep you in the rounds.
Speaker 1: I don't think the average golfer realizes how quickly you
Speaker 1: can go from kind of being in the mix on
Speaker 1: the leader board to one bad hole on a Thursday
Speaker 1: or Friday, and you're like Okay, I'm on the cut
Speaker 1: all I'm on the cut all day on Thursday today,
Speaker 1: I'll be on the cut all day on Friday. For
Speaker 1: everyone listening, Tommy, how can everybody's bottom end, they're bad
Speaker 1: days get better? Do you feel like that's a technique thing?
Speaker 1: Because one of the things that I am very passionate
Speaker 1: about is this balance between technique and execution. And I
Speaker 1: think everybody listening to this podcast, every time they play
Speaker 1: well or play poorly, they just go, I gotta go
Speaker 1: to the range. It's got to be my technique. And
Speaker 1: I think at the elite profession all tour level that
Speaker 1: you play, the margins are so small. So how do
Speaker 1: you and your head go about making the bottom end better?
Speaker 1: And give me something that our listeners could say, Listen,
Speaker 1: let me try that non golf swing related, non technique related,
Speaker 1: because as I say all the time, and I use
Speaker 1: you as an example, everybody in the game is trying
Speaker 1: to improve their technique. And I'm not blowing smoke up
Speaker 1: your euse. I watch you hit golf balls if I've
Speaker 1: got time. I think you have one of the best
Speaker 1: golf swings in the game. I just I love the
Speaker 1: way you swing the golf club. But there's so much
Speaker 1: more to it performing than just swinging the golf club.
Speaker 1: So making that bottom end the not so great rounds better,
Speaker 1: how do you go about that? And how can the
Speaker 1: average golfer try and make their not so great rounds
Speaker 1: not so destructive?
Speaker 2: For me, I think consistency of a certain amount of habits,
Speaker 2: you know, keeps you in and around when you do
Speaker 2: play well. And I, you know, like everyone else, I
Speaker 2: have days where my swing feels way off, like feels
Speaker 2: when you.
Speaker 1: Feel like as the type of player you are. I mean,
Speaker 1: for everyone listening, their golf swing always feels off right.
Speaker 1: For the rest of us, Tommy, our golf swings always
Speaker 1: feel shit right, it always feels But for you, when
Speaker 1: you say your golf swing feels off, what is that
Speaker 1: feeling like to you? And what does that mean to you?
Speaker 2: Probably I could boil it down to a couple of things.
Speaker 1: It's not contact right. You never you guys, you guys
Speaker 1: don't ever not hit the golf ball solid, come on.
Speaker 1: Compare to everyone else.
Speaker 2: For me, it would be a couple of things. My
Speaker 2: transition feels like it's got no time whatsoever, So.
Speaker 1: Get quick in change of direction from backswing to down.
Speaker 2: So then impact is never where I feel like it's
Speaker 2: going to be in terms of time.
Speaker 1: I've never heard that, but that makes sense because everybody
Speaker 1: always talks about the backswing getting quick or the downswing
Speaker 1: getting quick, but I've never heard would someone say that
Speaker 1: then makes the impact quicker as well, So you have
Speaker 1: less time exactly.
Speaker 2: I know where I want to hit it, and I
Speaker 2: know when I should hit it, and when I'm out,
Speaker 2: I'm not hitting it at that point. So then but
Speaker 2: then for me, transition will be quick and I hang
Speaker 2: back on it. But what that does is it brings
Speaker 2: in two misses. Yeah, you know the left. The club
Speaker 2: can be going left and I can hit it left
Speaker 2: or obviously one I don't want to hit it left.
Speaker 2: I'll hold on to it, or you know, back up
Speaker 2: and it will be going way right. So then and
Speaker 2: then I actually remember it. Your your dad told me this.
Speaker 2: I remember speaking to him about it, and he went, well,
Speaker 2: if you've got two missus where you're going to aim, that's.
Speaker 1: That's that is. That is the problem with the double.
Speaker 2: Miss And so it's.
Speaker 1: Halfway through the round You're like, okay, I've rinsed a
Speaker 1: couple left I've blocked a couple of ways.
Speaker 2: Right, You're like, because I've got I've got nothing, and
Speaker 2: so like for for me though, I think talking about
Speaker 2: that bottom and I think I've been better at noticing
Speaker 2: when that is going right. And I've just had a
Speaker 2: couple of habits. I have some start line drills that
Speaker 2: I'll do hitting between sticks.
Speaker 1: Everybody has seen all the stuff that you do on
Speaker 1: social where you put alignment sticks in the ground really close,
Speaker 1: but then that stick in front for you that helps
Speaker 1: you do what and it helps you visualize.
Speaker 2: What Every range is different, and every range can easily
Speaker 2: trick your eye. You just adapt to whatever you're seeing
Speaker 2: on any range, and I have been as we and
Speaker 2: still sometimes you still don't figure it out. But I'll
Speaker 2: be there thinking I'm hitting it, you know, really poor,
Speaker 2: and the range will be on like a downhill slope,
Speaker 2: and the wind will be off the left, and I'm like.
Speaker 1: Which wind do you hate for practicing.
Speaker 2: Off the left? In off the left? Why? Because you
Speaker 2: just start pulling it and shutting the face down to
Speaker 2: counteract the fact, Well, you can't react that. And then
Speaker 2: the thing is when you pull over it with your
Speaker 2: body of the club gets behind you, so then that'll
Speaker 2: bring the right in as well, and it just that's
Speaker 2: the one that gets you the most out of sync.
Speaker 2: And you can feel like you're absolutely flushing it on
Speaker 2: the range because you'll hit these like drilled strong flights
Speaker 2: that are it goes and it goes nowhere, but it
Speaker 2: just looks so it looks so good and you're like
Speaker 2: hipping it and then you get on the course and
Speaker 2: your timing's all out because you've been pulling it over.
Speaker 2: You've got the club face shut and that that's like
Speaker 2: that that's the worst win to practice him.
Speaker 1: Do you like your golf swing? Do you like the
Speaker 1: way it looks when you look at your own golf swing?
Speaker 1: Are you able to detach yourself from the forest and
Speaker 1: kind of look at the trees and kind of go yeah?
Speaker 1: Or or here's another one whose golf swings? Do you like?
Speaker 1: Whose golf swings do you look at and go that's pretty?
Speaker 2: I love Scottishcheffer's girl sing. I love Xander's girl sing.
Speaker 2: I mean world number one and two, but I you know,
Speaker 2: I love looking at like Okay, so let's.
Speaker 1: Let's break that down. Scotty's golf swing isn't one that
Speaker 1: anyone is currently trying to copy, right, everybody, If we
Speaker 1: if we asked everybody listening to this podcast, whose golf
Speaker 1: swing would you be trying to copy, most people are
Speaker 1: going to say yours over Scoutti's. And it's something I've
Speaker 1: said before. My uncle Billy, my dad's youngest brother, we
Speaker 1: were on the range. I say this all the time,
Speaker 1: but it's an important one. We were on the range.
Speaker 1: Duvall was hitting balls and Tigers hitting balls. Is when
Speaker 1: they were friends. Number one, number two in the world,
Speaker 1: and my uncle Billy, I said this recently on the podcast,
Speaker 1: but I'll keep saying it. He's like, nobody's trying to
Speaker 1: swing golf club like David Duvall. Right, nobody's trying to
Speaker 1: teach that. Nobody's trying to get the club based shut
Speaker 1: like that move the body. He's like, everybody is trying
Speaker 1: to swing the golf club like Tiger Adam Scott. And
Speaker 1: he said two of the greatest ball strikers he's ever seen,
Speaker 1: hailerwin Shut took it inside, came over it it Fades
Speaker 1: won three majors, three US opened tons of tournaments, Trevino
Speaker 1: wide open stance, took it outside, dropped it under. So
Speaker 1: when you look at Scotty Scheffler's swing, what do you
Speaker 1: like about Obviously you know it performed well, so you
Speaker 1: love that part about it. Right, When people ask me
Speaker 1: about golf swings, I always say, who do you like?
Speaker 1: I always say, are you talking aesthetics or are you
Speaker 1: talking function? Because of its function, the route is going
Speaker 1: to be very different. And if it's aesthetics, it's going
Speaker 1: to be guys like you and Nelly and Adam Scott.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was with Scutty in Dubai a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks ago when he was there. I mean, I've
Speaker 1: known him since he was nineteen twenty, and I'm watching
Speaker 1: him ball and I'm just like, Adam's golf swing reminds
Speaker 1: me of when I was a kid. I used to
Speaker 1: watch Freddy Couples hit golf balls. You're just like, that's
Speaker 1: the coolest thing. Adam's rhythm has never changed. So Scotty
Speaker 1: Scheffler's golf swing, what do you like about it?
Speaker 2: I think it's set up is perfect.
Speaker 1: He and Randy worked the grip, the way he's constantly
Speaker 1: checking his grip, and I love the fact that if
Speaker 1: he plays poorly or if he plays well, they'll go
Speaker 1: to the range and he is working on his setup
Speaker 1: actively while they're working on some of the other stuff.
Speaker 2: But I now this, this will sound crazy when I
Speaker 2: say it, so like if I if I sort of
Speaker 2: went through the things that I like about Scotty's golf swing.
Speaker 2: I think he's set ups perfect, and I think his
Speaker 2: grit's perfect. I think his takeaway is great. I think
Speaker 2: he has loads of room at the top and time
Speaker 2: doesn't lose. And then I actually think he's His golf
Speaker 2: swing is actually really quiet through the ball, And it
Speaker 2: sounds stupid.
Speaker 1: But it is. But it's really if you understand how
Speaker 1: the ground works and how people's yeah, feet work.
Speaker 2: Is unbelievably quiet through the ball, and his club's sew
Speaker 2: in control and that.
Speaker 1: And it looks so out of control.
Speaker 2: I know that it's crazy, but like when you when
Speaker 2: you look at it, you know certain pictures or like
Speaker 2: slow most swings, and you look at where you know
Speaker 2: how the club works, how his body works with the club,
Speaker 2: how everything's always supported like yeah, and by the way
Speaker 2: it seems to work. Okay, So give me some shots.
Speaker 1: You've seen him hit in tournaments under competition where you
Speaker 1: look at your Caddy Fin and go. Yeah that was
Speaker 1: pretty good.
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, now that's a good question. Playing with him.
Speaker 2: I'm not so like playing with him. See, everybody always
Speaker 2: describes Scotty as like unbelievably impressive without being impressive, and
Speaker 2: I think that's a massive compliment to him. But like
Speaker 2: I would look at shots. Now, I wasn't playing with
Speaker 2: him at the time, but I Shane.
Speaker 1: Lowry said this when I had him on the pod
Speaker 1: when you were talking about Scotty, and he said he played
Speaker 1: with him at bay Hill, you know, and and when
Speaker 1: he won, and he was like, he, Rory impresses you, Right,
Speaker 1: Rory has the ability to impress you with the speed,
Speaker 1: the lengthy some of.
Speaker 2: The shot he hits, shots that you're like, well, I
Speaker 2: can't do it.
Speaker 1: I don't have it, I can't take that.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, Scotty is almost more infuriating
Speaker 2: because you're looking at him and you're like, I should
Speaker 2: be able to do it.
Speaker 1: And I can't do it.
Speaker 2: He does it all the time and I never do it,
Speaker 2: And it's like he's more infuriating.
Speaker 1: Is there an underrated part of his game? Because right
Speaker 1: now everything is kind of the ship And I mean,
Speaker 1: but is there something you like that and go he
Speaker 1: doesn't get enough credit for doing that.
Speaker 2: I think his short game is unbelievable, Joe, And like
Speaker 2: when you when you rack it all up. So he's been,
Speaker 2: has it? He's been number one off the tea?
Speaker 1: Has he been number one of th category? Is not
Speaker 1: number one?
Speaker 2: But but like you know, like unbelievable driver of the
Speaker 2: golf ball. His iron players off the charts and the
Speaker 2: best and the best in the world.
Speaker 1: He hits four irons and five irons as good as Yeah,
Speaker 1: like his long iron game is a joke.
Speaker 2: Good, But then we go on that and then he's
Speaker 2: arguably got the best short game in the world. So
Speaker 2: then I mean, like what are we left with.
Speaker 1: Everybody says, well, the weekly in his game is his putting,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, straight, you can't win the win the
Speaker 1: tournaments he's winning and be a bad part.
Speaker 2: He puts great, And it's always the same thing when
Speaker 2: when somebody hits it that well and they put themselves in.
Speaker 2: The proximity that he does like to gain on the
Speaker 2: greens is very very difficult, like the proximity that he
Speaker 2: hits it. But he has his putting phenomena this year
Speaker 2: he's done. He's done amazing work with Phil Kenyan, who
Speaker 2: I've worked with for a long time and I know him,
Speaker 2: you know, very close to him from a young age.
Speaker 2: So that's been really nice to see like how that
Speaker 2: work has paid off and the way that they've worked.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean his ball control really for me.
Speaker 2: And you know, you go back to, like, you know,
Speaker 2: the shots that he hits that you always think, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, I feel like I should be able to
Speaker 2: do that. But the amount of control he has, the
Speaker 2: amount of confidence he has in it, and then you know,
Speaker 2: you look at emotions wise and how mentally strong he's been.
Speaker 1: And his approach and the way he kind of lives
Speaker 1: his life both on and off the golf course is
Speaker 1: a massive superpower for him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's almost like, actually, you know when you
Speaker 2: talk about it like this and you think about underrated
Speaker 2: part his mental energy, Like you know, he won what
Speaker 2: eight times nine times? Like to be able to do that,
Speaker 2: I mean, he played them. He wins the Masters and
Speaker 2: then just turns up at hilton Head and like wins again,
Speaker 2: and like I totally you know, I understand how big
Speaker 2: of an event Hiltonhead is. Still just want the Masters,
Speaker 2: like you're all right if you just feel like a
Speaker 2: bit tired and you're like, oh, you know, I'll you know,
Speaker 2: I'll play. But and of course, like every time you play,
Speaker 2: I never play when I don't want to win or
Speaker 2: don't want to play well. And I'll prepare as much
Speaker 2: as I can. But then like having the mental fortune
Speaker 2: and the mental energy to like be up there again
Speaker 2: and and it went into Monday or whatever it did
Speaker 2: and and win. Like things like that are unbelievably impressive.
Speaker 1: Xanders Shoffley, what a year, man? So who's year do
Speaker 1: you want? You want Scotties here this year? You want
Speaker 1: Xander's here?
Speaker 2: Uh, well, that's that's it's a it's a phenomenal question.
Speaker 1: Like so for me, it's easier to it's easier to say, Xander,
Speaker 1: when you if you've already got a major, if you've
Speaker 1: already got a Master's, like Scutties.
Speaker 2: I know. Well, so like my my straightaway instinct would
Speaker 2: be Scottie Master's Olympics. Eight wins, nine wins. Again we've
Speaker 2: lost count Felix cut whatever it is like the event
Speaker 2: I want to wins the Open and it's under won
Speaker 2: it So it's like it's like turned into this impossible
Speaker 2: question for me, like which are you going to pick?
Speaker 1: So like I always did you choose the masters of
Speaker 1: the open? You choose the open?
Speaker 2: I would yeah, but again I grew up in Southport,
Speaker 2: of course, so like, yeah, I've always had this, would.
Speaker 1: You and your dad used to sneak on?
Speaker 2: We did it a couple of times and they kind
Speaker 2: of we did it a couple of times and it
Speaker 2: kind o No, we were much too smart to get
Speaker 2: kicked off what my dad was.
Speaker 1: Did you play?
Speaker 2: No, you couldn't get very far out because they were
Speaker 2: just in the corner. It's it's so different now, it's
Speaker 2: so like actually I haven't played it since they made
Speaker 2: the changes, but you know that, Like, so you've got
Speaker 2: the fifth hole, which was always that one in the corner,
Speaker 2: and it was kind of like a little dog likes
Speaker 2: short off, but there was always a gap that you
Speaker 2: could go on to through the roads that was to
Speaker 2: the right, and then over time hedges grew up in
Speaker 2: bushes and and that will change so you could get
Speaker 2: on at that point. But no, we never ventured out
Speaker 2: too far. But yeah, like that like the open for
Speaker 2: me just growing up in that town and that being
Speaker 2: one of the first events I ever went to, It's
Speaker 2: always had, you know, a massive impact on me. So
Speaker 2: I would pick the Open, But then see, now I
Speaker 2: should really go with unders year because I'm like, if
Speaker 2: I could win one tournament, I want to win the Open,
Speaker 2: and he's won it. But then you're offering me scottis
Speaker 2: year play. I mean, the truth is I would take either.
Speaker 1: What about xandras golf swing? The game do you like?
Speaker 1: I mean, he's just he's one of those guys that
Speaker 1: those of us that are lucky enough to see him
Speaker 1: week in and week out and be a part of
Speaker 1: this circus of professional golf. But this year it's gone
Speaker 1: to another level. Yeah, and his consistency. Everybody kind of
Speaker 1: knew that he was going to break out. You just
Speaker 1: you knew it. You're very similar. I think everybody feels
Speaker 1: the same about you. But when it happens, everybody goes,
Speaker 1: all right, this is really really good. What do you
Speaker 1: like about his golf swing? What do you like about
Speaker 1: his game?
Speaker 2: Again? Go back to the timing room. He has at
Speaker 2: the top set up grip very very good, but the
Speaker 2: timing roomy has at the top the rhythm that he
Speaker 2: has and So if that's sounded like the sneaky speed
Speaker 2: that he's got is he hits it. He hits he
Speaker 2: hits it.
Speaker 1: People don't realize how farestander can get it out there.
Speaker 2: It is. It a long way with a lot of speed.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I've always looked at his swing and loved
Speaker 2: like his rhythm and like just sort of how his
Speaker 2: arms and hands and body like work together.
Speaker 1: Similar to you and in your caddy. I infinite I
Speaker 1: think you guys are one of the best teams out there.
Speaker 1: I think it's also helps Xander and Scottie Scheffler. They
Speaker 1: have great caddies on their back, Austin Kaiser for for Xander,
Speaker 1: and then I think Teddy Scott has been a massive man,
Speaker 1: massive upgrade for Scotty, just in the fact that it
Speaker 1: just meshes right. Sometimes. It just messaged the relationship that
Speaker 1: you have with a caddy. You know, you and your
Speaker 1: caddy and grew up together. He was sick, he had
Speaker 1: some hord Is shoes and stuff like that. Was it
Speaker 1: hard to play without him this year?
Speaker 2: Well, I not have him on the bag. You notice it,
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, of course, it's a change. It's definitely
Speaker 2: a big change. I was very lucky with the way
Speaker 2: that it went that summer in terms of the people
Speaker 2: that stood in. I had Adrian from Taylor made for
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks, very close to me. Did Gray
Speaker 2: the Masters. When I had Gray on the on the bag,
Speaker 2: the local caddy was like like phenomenal and a great experience.
Speaker 2: And then Dave Clark stood in for I think we
Speaker 2: did seven weeks, six weeks or seven weeks, and he
Speaker 2: was great. So I was very lucky with the people
Speaker 2: I had standing in. Of course, when you've had someone
Speaker 2: with you both personality wise and the way that you
Speaker 2: would work everything out, you know, day in day out
Speaker 2: for whatever seven years, probably since I was eight maybe,
Speaker 2: so like it's it's a change, and I actually what
Speaker 2: I had to when he when he came back, so
Speaker 2: like it was it was great because once we got
Speaker 2: past the initial phase of it, had had the operation,
Speaker 2: he was okay, you knew he was on the road
Speaker 2: to coverment. So that's very calm in then, and you
Speaker 2: know that he's going to be back at some point,
Speaker 2: so then you're just dealing with you know, working in
Speaker 2: a different way with whoever it is. But I was
Speaker 2: very lucky and I'm very grateful to the people that
Speaker 2: stood in and and I had, you know, a good
Speaker 2: time with them, and that was great. But when when
Speaker 2: Finnel came back, I I so wanted it to go
Speaker 2: so well at the start and like my game and
Speaker 2: my attitude like just trying too hard, like early doors,
Speaker 2: to like make it this like fairy tale. When he
Speaker 2: came back was like was it was that that was
Speaker 2: on me. But then and once we got back into
Speaker 2: the rhythm of things and in the flow, like we
Speaker 2: had a you know, a fantastic end of the year
Speaker 2: and played some amazing golf, and it was It's been
Speaker 2: great having him back and working together again. What do
Speaker 2: you want from a caddy? You want?
Speaker 1: I think, because I think every player is different, right,
Speaker 1: Some players are going to want a ton of information.
Speaker 1: Some people want a lot. Some people want it to
Speaker 1: be a process. Some people want it to be collaborative.
Speaker 1: Some people want to be told what to do. Some
Speaker 1: people Tiger wanted to make all the decisions. Steve Williams
Speaker 1: would give him the decisions. Tiger would make his own decisions.
Speaker 1: Some players want the caddy to go no, no, we
Speaker 1: do this, and then you do that. What do you
Speaker 1: want from a caddy.
Speaker 2: To be able to trust them to make a clear
Speaker 2: decision in the most pressurized moments. Ultimately, like that end
Speaker 2: that was, that would be what I would look for.
Speaker 2: Hard working, hard working, in a great attitude. Really, those
Speaker 2: two things or three things that I just mentioned, everything
Speaker 2: else will be all right with.
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever seen you not in a
Speaker 1: good mood. Do you have bad days on the golf course?
Speaker 1: You get down on yourself?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I have terrible yeah, just you know, just
Speaker 2: like everyone else, I think, honestly, golf is the only
Speaker 2: thing that can get me like sort of as riled
Speaker 2: up or as disappointed as you know, I'm generally pretty
Speaker 2: easy going, very calm, but golf, like I think it's
Speaker 2: it's just dealing with your own expectations. Like for all
Speaker 2: of us, we put our heart and soul into our
Speaker 2: craft and our careers, and then you you know, you
Speaker 2: work so hard and the game makes no sense a
Speaker 2: lot of the time. You can practice so well and
Speaker 2: you feel so good and the course suits you and
Speaker 2: you've played really before, and all of a sudden you
Speaker 2: just like crash out like it, and and then I
Speaker 2: think those are the hardest things to deal with. And
Speaker 2: the mental aspects of golf is just like it's it's
Speaker 2: like any aspects of your game, iron play, driving, chipping,
Speaker 2: put in, fitness, Like mentally that's that's another just part
Speaker 2: of the game, and you're going to have good days
Speaker 2: and bad days with it. Kids to not beat yourself
Speaker 2: up about it. And the key is to learn from
Speaker 2: when you do have those bad days, because it will
Speaker 2: make a difference. I've made so many mistakes mentally in
Speaker 2: the past that have then led to me like either
Speaker 2: winning a tournament or having a great finish because I
Speaker 2: would have made that mistake earlier, you know, and learned
Speaker 2: from it. So as long as you do that and
Speaker 2: you keep sort of trying to grow and move forward,
Speaker 2: like those bad days are fine. You know, you can't
Speaker 2: beat yourself up about it because you've already done it
Speaker 2: at that point. But yeah, I, like everyone have those
Speaker 2: bad days and get hard on myself, get really down
Speaker 2: on myself, disappointed, don't want to speak to anyone that
Speaker 2: stuff like it all happens.
Speaker 1: I was doing some research when the Kazakhstan Open twoy
Speaker 1: eleven on the Challenge.
Speaker 2: Tour fifth Major.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the fifth major is the kazakstanip and obviously, what
Speaker 1: do you know more about golf now than you did
Speaker 1: when you won a tournament in twy eleven? Meaning what
Speaker 1: do you know more about everybody? Again, it's just thing
Speaker 1: that I harp on and on about. Everybody that is
Speaker 1: trying to play wants their technique to get better. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and your technique is a moving target, right, it's ebbs
Speaker 1: and flows. You're gonna have weeks when you pay. But
Speaker 1: from the playing of the game. You know, your first
Speaker 1: kind of big professional win on the Challenge Store that
Speaker 1: got you on the DP World twenty twelve, you qualified.
Speaker 1: But what do you know more about playing the game
Speaker 1: now than you did when you first were starting out?
Speaker 1: I mean, you had a fantastic amateur career. You played
Speaker 1: on the Walker Cup, high level, high ranked amateur, but
Speaker 1: there's a big difference between playing golf at that level
Speaker 1: versus the level that you're playing at now. Do you
Speaker 1: feel like you've grown as a player and as a
Speaker 1: person on the golf course. Do you feel like you
Speaker 1: understand playing better?
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. I Mean you're so much more experience because
Speaker 2: you've you know, you've had so many different scenarios that
Speaker 2: you've had to face and you've either got them right
Speaker 2: or wrong. I know more about every aspect of the
Speaker 2: game in general. I understand what I want with my
Speaker 2: technique more, or I understand how I want to work
Speaker 2: more preparation. Preparation is a huge thing. I know so
Speaker 2: much more now about how I want to figure out
Speaker 2: a golf course, how I want to play a gold
Speaker 2: You go.
Speaker 1: About figuring out a golf course, because I think it's
Speaker 1: something that everybody listening could take so much for. Go
Speaker 1: to the golf course, whether it's your home course, whether
Speaker 1: it's a new course. But if golf, go with a
Speaker 1: game plan of what you're trying to When you look
Speaker 1: at a game plan and you and you're Keddy and
Speaker 1: you know, when you guys try and get a game plan,
Speaker 1: what are you guys trying to do? And in your head,
Speaker 1: what is planning for a round of golf?
Speaker 2: Mean, well, there's always the there's always the ideal way
Speaker 2: to play every single golf follow every golf course. Very
Speaker 2: rarely are you going to play it like that because
Speaker 2: not every shot suittsuoe. And it goes back to the
Speaker 2: other thing. You know, when you hit balls on a
Speaker 2: range and when you practice, you'll step out on a
Speaker 2: golf course and all of a sudden there's water on
Speaker 2: the left, left or something. I mean, it just it
Speaker 2: just changes. And I think you I think when when
Speaker 2: you go out and playing a practice round, I think
Speaker 2: being very aware of no matter how you how well
Speaker 2: you play. I've never played a practice round that actually matters.
Speaker 2: I mean like it's never had any you know, reflection
Speaker 2: on my career in any way. It's just a practice.
Speaker 2: I've shot sixty in a practice around and I've shot
Speaker 2: ninety and.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make a correlation.
Speaker 2: It makes no difference. So I but I almost think
Speaker 2: you're better when you well. You are better when you
Speaker 2: play bad in practice, because it gives you a heighth
Speaker 2: end awareness of shots that you don't like, and you'll
Speaker 2: focus in and you'll know that I need to you
Speaker 2: know this this whole. You know, I don't like that shot,
Speaker 2: or I I just can't seem to start it where
Speaker 2: I want to start it. So I will either hit
Speaker 2: a different club, or I'll accept that I'm going to
Speaker 2: hit it, you know, maybe in the in the left
Speaker 2: you know I'm likely to it in the left airway
Speaker 2: trap there. I'll just go and hit some shots out
Speaker 2: of it. And it's it's more about that's not like
Speaker 2: being mentally weak or anything. It's just preparing for lightly
Speaker 2: things that will happen greens on and around the greens.
Speaker 2: Where do you want to miss it? Where do you
Speaker 2: not want to miss it? You're always you know, you're planning.
Speaker 2: It's easy when you're playing great. You know you're going
Speaker 2: to strike a drive down the middle and you're going
Speaker 2: to have an eight iron in and I'm going to
Speaker 2: feel like, do you know what, I can go straight
Speaker 2: out of it today and I can edit to five
Speaker 2: feet and I'll roll the put in because it's fine.
Speaker 2: But it's over the course of seventy two holes, there's
Speaker 2: periods where you're going to be out of position and
Speaker 2: you need to make pars on those holes or you know,
Speaker 2: boge it worse. And it's where can I get up
Speaker 2: and down from? If that's where I can get up
Speaker 2: and down from, let's go practice it, even if it
Speaker 2: feels simple or whatever. It is like just things like
Speaker 2: that that we would do automatically in a way, but
Speaker 2: I guess people might not think about it straight away.
Speaker 1: What's it feel like when you're playing good? I mean,
Speaker 1: you've had some incredibly low round sixty three US hoping
Speaker 1: it's shin o'clock on one of the hardest golf courses
Speaker 1: on the planet. For you guys, when when you're playing good,
Speaker 1: are you aware of it? Does it feel different?
Speaker 2: Do you you're just so exciting? Doesn't it feels great?
Speaker 1: Because you guys look so calm when you've got it,
Speaker 1: like a good one going what incited? Are you going? Man?
Speaker 1: This is fun? Ah?
Speaker 2: Like yeah, you know, I love those rounds where you
Speaker 2: feel you feel so confident, you're in a great place
Speaker 2: with your swing. You know, you're hitting the shots that
Speaker 2: you actually see and you describe.
Speaker 1: The starting where you want them, the story starting.
Speaker 2: Where you want to start. You're hitting it where you
Speaker 2: want to hit it in terms of the timing of it,
Speaker 2: like go back to impact is where you want it,
Speaker 2: things like.
Speaker 1: That, and your caddie's going, hey, we put this fifteen
Speaker 1: feet you know, below the hole. We're going to be fine,
Speaker 1: and you hit it fifteen feet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like it just it feels like everybody else playing
Speaker 2: the game. We get all those same feelings, like so
Speaker 2: much satisfaction in it. You get excited about it. You're
Speaker 2: playing great. It's great. I mean, that's what that's all
Speaker 2: that is good about the game of golf because it
Speaker 2: keeps coming back and that's what you practice for to
Speaker 2: have to have those days like that.
Speaker 1: And when you're not hitting it good on the course
Speaker 1: as an elite tour player, what does that feel like?
Speaker 1: Do you? I mean, is it mental? Are you fighting
Speaker 1: your swing? Is it just like nothing's going to work today,
Speaker 1: I'm getting bad?
Speaker 2: Or did you well when it goes? There's so many
Speaker 2: different elements to it. I mean, when you have the
Speaker 2: really bad days like we talked about before we got
Speaker 2: two way miss, it's just horrible being out there in
Speaker 2: it because you don't you don't know where you're going
Speaker 2: to hit it. You generally bail out somewhere. You don't have,
Speaker 2: like you don't have a go to shot that you
Speaker 2: can even it. It's like it's just it's just a grind,
Speaker 2: Like it's just it's just a grind. But they're sort
Speaker 2: of those are the days where you really have to
Speaker 2: fall back on like being strong mentally, trying to be
Speaker 2: as patient and accepting as possible, just.
Speaker 1: You know, you can't maybe string some porous.
Speaker 2: Just yeah, just just keep going because somehow, at some
Speaker 2: point it might just click in or you just need
Speaker 2: to get off the golf course in those eighteen holes,
Speaker 2: go work on something again. Don't don't go trying to
Speaker 2: search for it or find it. Go back to what
Speaker 2: works for you in those bases, and it might just
Speaker 2: come again. And that's why you try and hang around
Speaker 2: like where your swing. You try and keep your swing
Speaker 2: as close to where it's gonna You know that that's
Speaker 2: what makes you hit it well. And even if you're
Speaker 2: not hitting it wall Chi, stay is around that as
Speaker 2: possible so that it can that it can come back.
Speaker 2: But it was equally days where you feel like you're
Speaker 2: playing well, you get stuck in between yardages, you get
Speaker 2: a couple of bad bounces, like things just don't go
Speaker 2: on the bad side of the draw, get the bad
Speaker 2: side of draw. Things just don't go your way. It
Speaker 2: just it just happens, isn't it. We play golf so
Speaker 2: much that you're going to get all of these scenarios
Speaker 2: you know, all the time.
Speaker 1: Really, let's talk about sometimes you've played well the Ryder
Speaker 1: Cup in eighteen twenty three, I mean, come on, man,
Speaker 1: do you have to play that good right before? And
Speaker 1: oh in Paris with Frankie. Yeah, you've played with Rory
Speaker 1: in Italy and.
Speaker 2: Just pick him up partners.
Speaker 1: Really, that's part of it. You've seen to other than
Speaker 1: Whistling Straits, where I don't think anybody on the European
Speaker 1: side really played that great and the US guys just
Speaker 1: ran through everybody. But you've seen to in the out
Speaker 1: of the three two that you've played in, you've raised
Speaker 1: your game so much so that the American guys, we'll go,
Speaker 1: when does he putt like this? Right? The American guys
Speaker 1: always say that they're like, dude, if these guys putted
Speaker 1: like this week in and week out, they'd have like
Speaker 1: forty majors. Like, is it the situation? Is it? Europe?
Speaker 1: Is it the partnership? Is that? What is it? Because
Speaker 1: you've you've had two Ryder Cups where you literally couldn't miss,
Speaker 1: You're chipping in, you're hooping it from everywhere, you're knocking
Speaker 1: it stiff or is it just a snowball of those
Speaker 1: type of situations you just go, I'm gonna ride this
Speaker 1: thing and we're gonna go.
Speaker 2: I think it's probably all that one.
Speaker 1: Eighteen You and Francesco Mulinari wouldn't necessarily pick you two
Speaker 1: guys as a four and O partnership in the Rider Cup.
Speaker 1: You just wouldn't know, but you wouldn't. I've never really
Speaker 1: seen you guys like be like Jordan and JT, where
Speaker 1: you guys are going everywhere together, You're having dinner on
Speaker 1: and off. That's my point. Some of those were relationships,
Speaker 1: like Brooks the first Ryder Cup he got in Minnesota,
Speaker 1: they asked him who he didn't want to play with.
Speaker 1: He and Brent Sneddecker both put each other because they said,
Speaker 1: we play terrible together. Every time we play. They played great,
Speaker 1: They won all their matches with a great partnership. They
Speaker 1: had a blast. They bonded together. So when did you
Speaker 1: know that you and Frankie were kind of going to
Speaker 1: be like, Okay, we're going to be that team of
Speaker 1: the Writer Cup this time.
Speaker 2: Well we yeah, we didn't. We wanted to play together.
Speaker 1: Similar type games, yeah, similar.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and almost like similar personalities to the point, you know,
Speaker 2: friends so easy to be around. It's funny, like very dry,
Speaker 2: very funny. And you always enjoyed his company, like We've
Speaker 2: always found each of this company so easy. So I've
Speaker 2: always got one great. So we wanted to play together.
Speaker 2: You obviously don't know. Like most of the time, you
Speaker 2: just leave it to the captains to decide. You obviously
Speaker 2: say you would like to play with, but again, you know,
Speaker 2: the guys these days, they use so many stats and
Speaker 2: they have, you know, what pairings they think will work,
Speaker 2: and you go with that, and you just the captain.
Speaker 2: And I think me and Frank got a run out
Speaker 2: on that Friday morning. We were actually two down through
Speaker 2: ten holes and Fran was playing unbelievable at the time
Speaker 2: it won the Open that year. He was pretty much,
Speaker 2: you know, best player in the world at the time,
Speaker 2: and he went on a run there and then we
Speaker 2: just kind of got going. But I do think we
Speaker 2: played so we went the last group out on that
Speaker 2: Friday both. I'm pretty sure we were last group out
Speaker 2: in the morning and the afternoon, or maybe we were
Speaker 2: third in the afternoon. But we were lay on when
Speaker 2: we managed to get through that morning because we were
Speaker 2: three nail down in Paris Friday morning and me and
Speaker 2: Fran came through like we managed to survive our match
Speaker 2: and get through it. But then the afternoon struck and
Speaker 2: all we did I'm sure we were last. All we
Speaker 2: had to do was just play because the cheers and
Speaker 2: the crowd and the rest of the team. We're just like,
Speaker 2: the momentum was so much that we just played. We
Speaker 2: were in such a great spot being at the back,
Speaker 2: you just rode that wave of what was going on
Speaker 2: and like cruised through that day.
Speaker 1: If you've never been to a Ryder Cup, and obviously
Speaker 1: for everyone listening, they're never really going to be a
Speaker 1: part of one, there is something about when you know
Speaker 1: the rest of the team is on a roll, if
Speaker 1: you're playing at home, it magnifies Just does it make
Speaker 1: you feel like you're almost kind of I can free
Speaker 1: wheel it now because.
Speaker 2: Yeah, playing at homes well, it clearly is a big
Speaker 2: advantage because we're looking at the results how they've been.
Speaker 2: I think Roy put it really well when he said
Speaker 2: he felt like one of the hardest things to do
Speaker 2: in golf was winning away or out a cup. And
Speaker 2: it is for sure, because you know, there's one thing
Speaker 2: like changing momentum in a match, it's another thing changing
Speaker 2: the momentum of sixty thousand people in you know, when
Speaker 2: it's three matches or four matches, you know, whatever it is,
Speaker 2: it's a whole different like scenario. And it is difficult
Speaker 2: because you know so so for for the away Rider
Speaker 2: Cup that I played Americans, unbelievable and we didn't play
Speaker 2: how we wanted to, but like still I hit some
Speaker 2: great shots at times and it was like just greeted
Speaker 2: with silence, you know, because that's just what it is.
Speaker 2: And I remember being me and Victor got off to
Speaker 2: a really good start in one of the matches and
Speaker 2: we were three up to eight I think, and JT
Speaker 2: hold like a forty foot pot on nine like this
Speaker 2: big curling put, unbelievable pot, but like this, the noise
Speaker 2: in the sen off was unbelievable, like and you would
Speaker 2: think they were three up, and it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: it's it's mom just it just it does just have
Speaker 2: such an impact. And there's there's something if you you know,
Speaker 2: there's something beautiful as well about trying to go against
Speaker 2: all that momentum and trying to like squash it. But
Speaker 2: it's just very hard. It's just very difficult, but you
Speaker 2: have to enjoy it like there, right, you know, that
Speaker 2: that atmosphere that you get the Rider Cup both home
Speaker 2: and away, it's like it is, I mean, you dream
Speaker 2: of playing in those situations and in those you know,
Speaker 2: in front of those crowds and for you are against you.
Speaker 2: It's still like the most you know, it's the most
Speaker 2: amazing experience.
Speaker 1: Italy twenty three. You get paired with Rory McElroy. I've
Speaker 1: got to ask you just how fucking good is this guy?
Speaker 1: I mean, how good is this guy?
Speaker 2: You know? We so good. We went for the So
Speaker 2: we went for this practice day like two weeks before
Speaker 2: they ride a Cup. Were just just a day the
Speaker 2: whole team went and we so like Luke had gone through.
Speaker 2: You know, we were playing in four balls of what
Speaker 2: our potential parents would be. And me and Rory both
Speaker 2: play we don't play the same golf ball, play similar
Speaker 2: golf ball, so they know each other well. So we're talking.
Speaker 2: You know, he's talking about playing foursomes and Eduardo we
Speaker 2: had this like we had this course planner and there
Speaker 2: was like so what you got is you would open
Speaker 2: the course planet and there was a dot on the
Speaker 2: holes which was like the ideal T shot. So like,
Speaker 2: if you can get it there, that's the absolute ideal
Speaker 2: T shot. I mean in general, if you're going to
Speaker 2: it three hundred down the middle, you're in the ideal spot.
Speaker 2: So I'm looking at you know, I'm looking at the
Speaker 2: idea t shot on the first and I've hit mine,
Speaker 2: So Rory steps up. He's hit it forty yards past
Speaker 2: the ideal blue dot in the middle of the fairway,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I'm gonna be fine. I'll play
Speaker 2: with Rory. And it is amazing. It's it's amazing playing
Speaker 2: with him. I I really enjoyed getting to watch sort
Speaker 2: of what he There's there's watching the shots that he hits,
Speaker 2: but there's also like in certain positions that I would
Speaker 2: put him that was definitely far from my deal what
Speaker 2: he actually would then see, Like he sees shots.
Speaker 1: I don't think he gets enough credit for being as
Speaker 1: creative as you.
Speaker 2: He sees shots that I mean, I can't hit that
Speaker 2: I can't see. And you know, there'll be times when
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, I'm like looking, I'm thinking, what's
Speaker 2: he what's he looking out? Like, what's he doing? Just
Speaker 2: let him go because it's Roy Mackerroy, and you have
Speaker 2: no idea whether he can pull it off or not,
Speaker 2: but like, if anybody can, it's going to be Rory.
Speaker 2: So it was I really enjoyed watching. Obviously, I enjoyed
Speaker 2: playing with him as partner because he's unbelievable golf. But
Speaker 2: watching like shots that he saw as well was really cool.
Speaker 1: It must be when you're playing with Rory. It must
Speaker 1: be hard not to watch it.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, regardless of what tournament, it's great, isn't it
Speaker 2: when you watch him drop?
Speaker 1: I mean there must be times where he hits driver
Speaker 1: in a tournament on a hole and you look at.
Speaker 2: Each other and go, everybody everywhere is that going? Everybody
Speaker 2: does it? Don't everybody does it? You're like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: that's dead. No, it's just a completely different line that
Speaker 2: you didn't think of. It's in the middle of the
Speaker 2: and then you get down.
Speaker 1: There around the corner and you go, look where he's one.
Speaker 2: You're like, why is why is he not in a provisional.
Speaker 1: But they formed friendships those Ryder Cups, right, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: whether you win or lose, I think it's and I've
Speaker 1: said this on the pod before when Brooks first made
Speaker 1: the first Ryder Cup, I said, you will never not
Speaker 1: want to be on one of these. You never want
Speaker 1: to make And whether you win or you lose, those
Speaker 1: weeks for you, what do you take away from those weeks?
Speaker 1: You've been a part of three of them.
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, I take away a lot of inspiration, a
Speaker 2: lot of motivation. Be like you said, being part of
Speaker 2: a Rider Cup team. First of all, you're with the
Speaker 2: twelve best players of your continent. They're all phenomenally players
Speaker 2: and exactly twenty twenty four of the best players in
Speaker 2: the world. So you take a lot of motivation from that.
Speaker 2: You obviously don't want to miss another one, so you're
Speaker 2: you're you know, you're driven to try and do whatever
Speaker 2: it takes to make the next one. And there is
Speaker 2: a there is a bond that when you've been in
Speaker 2: that team room and when you've played. I definitely think
Speaker 2: it's the most pressure and most nerves that that you
Speaker 2: can feel in the game, just because of the hype,
Speaker 2: the atmosphere, everything that builds up in Look, there's there's
Speaker 2: definitely worse scenarios in golf. I mean, you can be
Speaker 2: playing to try and keep your talk hard or whatever
Speaker 2: it might be. There's much worse scenarios and there's pressure
Speaker 2: in that way. But just the whole aspects of the
Speaker 2: world watching the Ryder Cup and everybody that's there, they're like,
Speaker 2: you know, the most pressurized times that I've felt. But
Speaker 2: when you've done it with those with the guys that
Speaker 2: have been in that team, and you make a you know,
Speaker 2: you make very very strong bunds and friendships from that.
Speaker 1: You work with my dad, butch harmon. You know every
Speaker 1: lesson I've ever got from my dad. You know, if
Speaker 1: I'm hooking it'll he just say, we'll just stop hooking it. Well,
Speaker 1: how do I do that? We'll just stop doing it?
Speaker 1: Is right? I'm always I never really asked his question
Speaker 1: to the guys that he works with, but what's he
Speaker 1: like to work with? And how is he different to
Speaker 1: work with? Because I have to do two things in
Speaker 1: my life, right, I have to I have my father, right,
Speaker 1: and then I have someone who is in the same
Speaker 1: industry that I'm in, who, in my opinion, is at
Speaker 1: the height of that industry from a golf instruction standpoint.
Speaker 1: But I'm always interested in and I never really do it.
Speaker 1: What's he like to work with? And how is it different?
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, when you go work with someone like
Speaker 1: my dad, no matter how big of a player you are,
Speaker 1: he is the goat of golf instruction, right, He's Sir
Speaker 1: alex Ferguson, right he is, So when you go work
Speaker 1: with him, I mean, there must be an acknowledgment that
Speaker 1: I am going to be working today with one of
Speaker 1: the greatest, if not the greatest in the game from
Speaker 1: a golf instruction today.
Speaker 2: Well, when you walk into the museum, when you walk
Speaker 2: into his office, the museum, and then his swing studio
Speaker 2: with all the flags in it and the wall of majors,
Speaker 2: I mean like you're in one of the like you know,
Speaker 2: one of the holy grails of golf. Like it's it's
Speaker 2: it's unbelievable, like inspiring, it's very very, very very inspired.
Speaker 1: It can be kind of I think some guys go
Speaker 1: in there and go, Okay, this is a little kind
Speaker 1: of overwhelming. But I have heard guys say they got
Speaker 1: out of there looking at all those majors that Tiger
Speaker 1: and all the guys and my dad worked with them.
Speaker 2: They were like, I want to go on the wall.
Speaker 1: I want to go on the wall.
Speaker 2: I want to be I want to be on the wall.
Speaker 2: You know I've never I've never spent time with your dad. Well,
Speaker 2: I've not come out of it feeling more motivated or
Speaker 2: more inspired.
Speaker 1: He is a great motivator.
Speaker 2: He's an amazing motivator.
Speaker 1: He's a good cup bad cop. And he has a
Speaker 1: reputation I think for being more bad cop than I
Speaker 1: think the guys that spend time around him, like you
Speaker 1: guys do, I think you would correct me. I think
Speaker 1: you're probably surprised at how invested he is in your
Speaker 1: game and absolutely what you guys are doing.
Speaker 2: He really really is and he wants the absolute best
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 1: He wants it more than you guys.
Speaker 2: And he's constantly bigging you up. Like he never makes
Speaker 2: you feel bad about yourself. It tells great start, it
Speaker 2: tells great storry.
Speaker 1: What's that like? What's that like?
Speaker 2: And from a coaching standpoint, he's never told me something
Speaker 2: that I couldn't.
Speaker 1: Do or seemed weird or you're like, where are we
Speaker 1: going with this?
Speaker 2: Ever told me anything that I didn't understand or anything
Speaker 2: that I didn't feel like I couldn't do. And at
Speaker 2: the same time, he's never told me anything that hasn't
Speaker 2: made a positive like impact on my golf swink And like,
Speaker 2: you know, one of the first things he made me
Speaker 2: do when I went for my very first lesson, you know,
Speaker 2: I went into his office. You know, we spoke for
Speaker 2: a bit, then we went out to hit some balls.
Speaker 2: You know, after three balls. You know, he's gonna just
Speaker 2: set up more on your heels, put more weight in
Speaker 2: your heels. I mean, like I can do that, and like,
Speaker 2: that's not what you think you're gonna get. It's not
Speaker 2: I think you're gonna get something about positions. And he's like,
Speaker 2: just get more weight in your heel, get more weight
Speaker 2: in your heels. And again he's he's very consistent with
Speaker 2: the messages that he sends and what what we need
Speaker 2: to do. You know, good bad under pressure is messages
Speaker 2: for what we might be working on at any given
Speaker 2: time or what works. Is always very consistent, so you're
Speaker 2: always doing very similar things.
Speaker 1: What do you feel Tommy, I'm blown away that you
Speaker 1: haven't won a major. I think you're going to win them.
Speaker 1: I think you're going to win a bunch of them.
Speaker 1: But what do you feel like you have to do
Speaker 1: to give yourself more legit chances? With nine holes to
Speaker 1: go and it's four times a year, they are tough,
Speaker 1: but you know that the great ones get themselves in position.
Speaker 1: What do you feel if you were being critical of yourself,
Speaker 1: what do you feel like you need to do better
Speaker 1: to have more legit chances? Real chance? It's not back
Speaker 1: door them, not backdoor top tens, top five, but legit
Speaker 1: in the mix with seven eight holes to go.
Speaker 2: Start a bit faster. That would be one of the
Speaker 2: first things. Just start quicker and get yourself in that
Speaker 2: position earlier. And you know, the majors, for sure, there's
Speaker 2: certain times where you have to write it out. I
Speaker 2: think the PGA was probably like a bit of a
Speaker 2: freak major this year in terms of the scoring.
Speaker 1: And we're not going to get those very often.
Speaker 2: That doesn't happen very often.
Speaker 1: So like a normal tour event, well, you felt like.
Speaker 2: You could make but I thought that golf course was hard.
Speaker 1: I know, but it was really long, but everybody kind
Speaker 1: of felt like they could make up ground each day. Yeah, yeah, right, So,
Speaker 1: I mean it seemed that way. The guys that I
Speaker 1: was talking to, especially going to the weekend, They're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I feel like I can shoot a lower. Nobody is
Speaker 1: going on Saturday at.
Speaker 2: AUGUSTA going, but definitely riding out. The most important thing,
Speaker 2: it seems in majors is you have to ride out
Speaker 2: that struggling period and you have to, you know, be
Speaker 2: able to grind out of the paths and the best
Speaker 2: majors that I've or the best results I've had in majors.
Speaker 2: I've done that very very well, and I think that's
Speaker 2: always something you know, like very important to look at.
Speaker 2: I I love, you know, I enjoy watching the great
Speaker 2: major champions or the ones that find themselves up there
Speaker 2: a lot currently and in the past, just how they
Speaker 2: go about things, how they speak about the majors, and
Speaker 2: and you know, one of the one of the best
Speaker 2: things they all do. Everybody knows the majors to the
Speaker 2: ones that change your career when you look back on it.
Speaker 2: But they just take those events in their strides, and
Speaker 2: you know that better than it comfortable doing it, You
Speaker 2: know that better than anyone. With Brooks, he likes majors.
Speaker 1: He likes the fact that it's going to be messy
Speaker 1: and dirty and chaotic.
Speaker 2: And he's already very at ease with it before he's
Speaker 2: He kind of likes that because actually.
Speaker 1: Everybody says they like it, but you know, very few
Speaker 1: people really like it. Yeah, but there are people I'm
Speaker 1: sure that you have played with that in the most pressure.
Speaker 1: You can see that they're good at handling it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And you know I I you know,
Speaker 2: I've looked at the guys that were majors. You know,
Speaker 2: I could put better in majors, and I think I
Speaker 2: think the majors because they're the toughest tests very often.
Speaker 2: So so like if I could pick a weakness in
Speaker 2: my putt in especially statistically, once I get outside five
Speaker 2: feet five to ten feet, you can make big gains
Speaker 2: and they can be very important puts. Majors you have
Speaker 2: a lot of them. It's harder to get for par
Speaker 2: and that's like a very very important range in majors
Speaker 2: because it's very difficult to get the ball clothes and
Speaker 2: you're gonna have a lot of them for pass So
Speaker 2: I think, I think I could, you know, just hold
Speaker 2: some of those momentum puts and those pressure puts in
Speaker 2: the majors to just give me some because we're talking
Speaker 2: about giving yourself, you know, that chance going into the
Speaker 2: bat nine where anything can happen, and that would be
Speaker 2: where I'd like to find myself more often. Give yourself
Speaker 2: more chances, and I'm sure you know eventually, if you
Speaker 2: give yourself enough chances, you will walk through the door
Speaker 2: at some point. And I you know, I still I
Speaker 2: always try and talk to myself in the right way
Speaker 2: and everybody has a different story. And for me, I'm
Speaker 2: definitely not the guy that has come out of the
Speaker 2: blocks at twenty one, twenty two and won a major
Speaker 2: or one two majors or anything like that. But hopefully,
Speaker 2: and I'll, you know, keep believing that my story will be.
Speaker 2: It took him longer than we thought, and it took
Speaker 2: him a long time, but look at what he ended
Speaker 2: with at the end of his career. So you know,
Speaker 2: whether that happens or not is a different story, but
Speaker 2: that you know, that is what I will keep telling
Speaker 2: myself at this point.
Speaker 1: Lastly, you counted for your steps on Oscar this year
Speaker 1: in a challenge to her the other steps on mo
Speaker 1: We've we've both been lucky enough to work with them
Speaker 1: at my accounty, but it's in Dubai. But it's been
Speaker 1: fun to watch obviously, I mean, and when did you
Speaker 1: meet them? How old were they young? Because I have
Speaker 1: a stepdaughter who I met when she was eight My
Speaker 1: wife and I I got together, and she's I call
Speaker 1: her my daughter. She's the only daughter I'll ever have.
Speaker 1: I think of her. I think the role that you've
Speaker 1: played in both of their lives has been pretty pretty
Speaker 1: cool to watch and pretty interesting.
Speaker 2: It's very kind I think five and seven or six
Speaker 2: and eight, so especially like especially Mo Moe is like
Speaker 2: young and you know, so were they big into golf, No,
Speaker 2: not really. They sort of tried it a little bit
Speaker 2: obviously the mum worked in the game. So and then
Speaker 2: I I actually remember so I took them on a
Speaker 2: full sized golf course for the first time. We've got
Speaker 2: videos somewhere quite a long time ago, so you know,
Speaker 2: I would say they definitely came on a golf course
Speaker 2: for the first time with me. So that's been cool
Speaker 2: being part of being part of that journey because you
Speaker 2: know what it's like. I mean, we obviously loved the game,
Speaker 2: and we've grown up with the game, and we have
Speaker 2: Frankie now who's seven, who has been playing since he
Speaker 2: was you know, since since he was tiny. But like
Speaker 2: having having your kids that are so invested in love
Speaker 2: the game, like I love nothing more than going out
Speaker 2: and playing with with those guys, like that's that's my
Speaker 2: favorite thing to do.
Speaker 1: I was hanging out with Oscar right of the first
Speaker 1: tea at the Ryder Cup when you guys were going out,
Speaker 1: and it was just so.
Speaker 2: Cool that nervous but two of us were sitting there, you.
Speaker 1: Know, and there's all these people and everybody singing and stuff.
Speaker 1: And I saw him in the crowd and I went
Speaker 1: down and we were hanging out and stuff, and he
Speaker 1: had just played really good in the tournament, so I
Speaker 1: was talking about that. But we were just looking around
Speaker 1: at the atmosphere. It must be cool to watch them progress.
Speaker 1: I mean, they've turned into pretty good players.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're doing good. They're doing I mean, what was.
Speaker 1: It like Candy and Form in a Challenge Tour event.
Speaker 1: Were you giving him advice? Were you just letting him
Speaker 1: do him? Or were you trying to go, hey man, no,
Speaker 1: let's just just hit it over here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not seven iron I felt like so for him,
Speaker 2: that was such a big step up for him, Like
Speaker 2: it was amazing that It's like Fino was cardied for
Speaker 2: him too, and finn I was caddied for into like
Speaker 2: who knows who was better, but we made a coating
Speaker 2: a Challenge toy, so you know, like it was it
Speaker 2: was a big step up for him. And obviously it's
Speaker 2: it's somewhere where you know, he eventually wants to be
Speaker 2: like playing as a professional tour and professional so Challenge
Speaker 2: to it was amazing opportunity for him, and he was
Speaker 2: he was very nervous. But I I think what was
Speaker 2: what was good for him was and it's not necessarily
Speaker 2: not everything I said was right, like definitely, like definitely
Speaker 2: I got stuff wrong. But I think the more important
Speaker 2: thing was the confidence and belief he had that what
Speaker 2: I was saying was right helped him just hit a
Speaker 2: good golf shot, like it just helped him commit to
Speaker 2: what he was doing. And you know, I played on
Speaker 2: the Challenge Tour, so I've been through all those experiences,
Speaker 2: so I think I had a help, you know, I
Speaker 2: could help him in that way, Like there was nothing
Speaker 2: that he was gonna sort of go through that week
Speaker 2: that I hadn't done. But I'm not hitting the shots
Speaker 2: like it's all it's all well and good to me
Speaker 2: saying what to do. I'm not the one hitting him.
Speaker 2: And he teed off on Thursday morning, and I swear
Speaker 2: he played. He had a put on the ninth for eagle.
Speaker 2: He actually three put it in the end, he had
Speaker 2: this twenty footer to go fourmder through nine. He could
Speaker 2: have been eight under by the way, and I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, Like I was like, he's playing unbelievable,
Speaker 2: Like this is a joke, Like we would discuss a
Speaker 2: shot and he would just hit that exact version of
Speaker 2: the golfshop. I couldn't do it, And I was like,
Speaker 2: this is unbelievable. But to make the cut, like because
Speaker 2: you get you know, you get caught up in everything
Speaker 2: in the game, and there's so much going on at
Speaker 2: the top end, and there's like you know, there's there's
Speaker 2: Ryder Cups, and there's like, you know, there's so much
Speaker 2: success like in the game, and these players that are unbelievable.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, like him making a birdie
Speaker 2: on the last week he made the cup by two.
Speaker 2: He was seventeen.
Speaker 1: Seventeen, he's making challenge, but like how.
Speaker 2: Happy he was, How happy I was? It was it
Speaker 2: was so cool and it was so good. And to
Speaker 2: have that like purity of the joy of the game
Speaker 2: and what like just those moments that it can bring
Speaker 2: at whatever level that is was great to be a
Speaker 2: part of. And you know, Mos just won a tournament
Speaker 2: like last week. Just watching how happy they are to
Speaker 2: perform well, to play well, to win a tournament is
Speaker 2: really cool to see and it definitely keeps you. They
Speaker 2: help me enjoy the game, like for sure.
Speaker 1: Because the cool thing is their kids that are growing
Speaker 1: up on tour, right, Yeah. We see them at majors,
Speaker 1: we see them at driving ranges on that so they
Speaker 1: are very much I look at the upbringing that they have.
Speaker 1: It's very similar to the upbringing I had. I was
Speaker 1: at tour events, you know, at a very young age,
Speaker 1: I was on tour. You know, I've been on tour
Speaker 1: basically my whole life. Is it fun having them come
Speaker 1: out on tour with you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I love having I love having them out. Like
Speaker 2: most traveled a lot, loves being out on tour. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I love having the guys out. I love having my
Speaker 2: family out obviously, you know, I travel a lot and
Speaker 2: I travel a long way to play. But having having
Speaker 2: those guys out when they come out, and knowing that
Speaker 2: they're learning as well, knowing that they enjoy it, knowing
Speaker 2: that they like being out on tour, it's great And
Speaker 2: I do think it's it has a positive effect on
Speaker 2: them growing up, and I think it gives them to
Speaker 2: go back to motivation and inspiration, you know, to be
Speaker 2: able to for me, being able to play on tour,
Speaker 2: bring those guys out and give them the opportunity to
Speaker 2: be both learn and be inspired by by everyone that's
Speaker 2: out there and the tour. You know, yeah, I'm very
Speaker 2: proud of that.
Speaker 1: How much have they inspired you to kind of put
Speaker 1: in your new Tommy Fleetwood Junior Academy in Dubai. I
Speaker 1: think that's and I think it's amazing that you just
Speaker 1: had a tournament where you got together with the AJGA,
Speaker 1: had a tournament in Dubai. That's the first time that's
Speaker 1: ever happened. I mean, there have been a lot of
Speaker 1: players to me that have lived in and out of
Speaker 1: Dubai for a long time. The fact that you're the
Speaker 1: first one that's ever said, hey, listen, let's get the
Speaker 1: AJJA involved. Let's get some wagger rankings for these players.
Speaker 1: I mean, Dubai is a very small market, but I
Speaker 1: think it's an important market being around you know, Mo
Speaker 1: and Oscar and has been kind of a catalyst for
Speaker 1: you to say, listen, junior golf is the future and
Speaker 1: I'm going to try and do as much as I
Speaker 1: can to make a mark.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, And I think it's really important to give all,
Speaker 2: you know, the kids the opportunity to learn and play
Speaker 2: the game. I think that's really important and give them
Speaker 2: like good information as well at the same time, like
Speaker 2: give them the best possible chance of like in the
Speaker 2: game and succeed in and whatever that might be. I
Speaker 2: also just think golf in general helps you be a
Speaker 2: success or whatever you want to be. So I think
Speaker 2: it's very important lessons of course. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 2: you've you've had the academy and do buy a long time.
Speaker 2: There's so there's so much good and there's a lot
Speaker 2: you know, golf very popular over there, and there's a
Speaker 2: lot of kids that play, and you know, the Asia
Speaker 2: Pacific Amateur came over there a couple of years back.
Speaker 2: The tour has been going there for a long long time,
Speaker 2: and there's just been this like not necessarily a voyage,
Speaker 2: there's has.
Speaker 1: Been avoid I lived in Dubai for three years from
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight to twenty eleven, and you'd work
Speaker 1: with these kids and they didn't really have a way
Speaker 1: to gauge themselves off of other kids. They were good
Speaker 1: kids in the region, they were really good kids, but
Speaker 1: they they tended to be the best kids in every tournament.
Speaker 1: And I think one of the cool things is the
Speaker 1: competition that that these tournaments that you've you've come up with,
Speaker 1: those are going to be the tournaments. Like the two
Speaker 1: kids from our academy that that won the first they
Speaker 1: were so excited. That was like to them felt like
Speaker 1: one of the biggest tournaments for them.
Speaker 2: Like it's like it's like that guy playing in an
Speaker 2: A G A event.
Speaker 1: We got to make sure that you get that the
Speaker 1: A J J gives them the champions bags, right, they
Speaker 1: got you get like you've got it. That is such
Speaker 1: you don't realize as a junior golfer. You show up
Speaker 1: on a driving range, as a junior golfer with an
Speaker 1: A J G A champions bag on, everybody looks at
Speaker 1: you different. That is him quickly equipment of like a
Speaker 1: major championship for junior golf. So you show up with
Speaker 1: one of those bags and everybody kind of goes, that's
Speaker 1: what I want to do. So I think it's really
Speaker 1: cool that that you've been able to do that, and
Speaker 1: I think that can really really grow in the region
Speaker 1: for the kids in that part of the world that
Speaker 1: have never really had like a a major to play in, Right,
Speaker 1: They've got to travel the fact that they've got one
Speaker 1: in their their backyard, they can go and win an
Speaker 1: AJGA event and get wagger. Yah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously it puts them in a good position for
Speaker 2: if they want to go to college. You know, they're
Speaker 2: on the map. And I do think you know from
Speaker 2: my experiences in Dubai, I'm sure you're the same. The
Speaker 2: facilities are great, the coaching is very very good. There's
Speaker 2: some great coaches out there, and there's some really good players.
Speaker 2: But you know, and as much as we can enhance
Speaker 2: that platform at a junior level, that can only be
Speaker 2: a good thing.
Speaker 1: Well, I think you are one of the players told
Speaker 1: me that if a young golfer was trying to model
Speaker 1: their career after I mean, they couldn't pick. I look
Speaker 1: at you. I look at guys like you and Adam Scott.
Speaker 1: I look at the way that you guys just conduct yourselves.
Speaker 1: I don't know anybody that doesn't like you. I don't
Speaker 1: know anybody that doesn't think you're like.
Speaker 2: What you wouldn't tell me anyway, you know, I would.
Speaker 1: I mean, but I just think you're a credit to
Speaker 1: the game. You're a credit to the sport. And I'm
Speaker 1: not saying this just to massage your ego. If you
Speaker 1: don't have multiple major championships while we're done. There's something
Speaker 1: wrong with you, because I think you've got one of
Speaker 1: the best swings in the game and one of the
Speaker 1: best games in the game. So I'm excited to see
Speaker 1: your time.
Speaker 2: Is hopefully still to come, and there'll be plenty of them.
Speaker 1: So great talking to you.
Speaker 2: Thank you, I thank you.
Speaker 1: I can't thank everybody enough for listening, rate, review, subscribe
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. It's the Son of a
Speaker 1: Butch podcast