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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, welcome back to the latest edition of the

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Speaker 1: Book of Joe podcast. And it is the final week

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Speaker 1: of the regular season. And Joe, you sound as if

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Speaker 1: maybe you can cut a rap album. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but maybe the length of the season is catching up

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Speaker 1: to you here on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: It is. It is. You know, we always get these

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Speaker 2: little colds this time of the year. It's playoff weather.

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Speaker 2: I've been through a long season of golf and right

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Speaker 2: now I think it's kind of catching up to me.

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Speaker 2: The weather is starting to change a bit. Driven down

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Speaker 2: to Tampa, two day trip, stopped in Charlotte, eventually made

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Speaker 2: it to Tampa. So the Bucks and Eagles last night.

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Speaker 2: Pretty impressive job by the Eagles. So yeah, I'll be fine.

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Speaker 2: It's just that time of the year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's time to come up big, as Justin Verlander

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Speaker 1: did in the first game of a huge series between

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Speaker 1: the Astros and the Mariners.

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Speaker 3: And Joe.

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Speaker 1: You know, the American League West, inside and out, and

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Speaker 1: so that's where I want to start with our focus here.

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Speaker 1: We've got three teams, Texas, Seattle, Houston, three really good teams.

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Speaker 1: One of them is going home because I think the

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Speaker 1: Toronto Blue Jays looked like they have a good foothold here,

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Speaker 1: and I have the Rangers in the playoffs here they

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Speaker 1: have a three game lead in the lost column with

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Speaker 1: six to play. They've righted the ship here. So we've

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Speaker 1: got Seattle and Houston. For me, that's what it's going

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Speaker 1: to come down to, handicap those three teams, who do

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Speaker 1: you like, who you don't like? Coming down here in

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Speaker 1: the final week of the season in the Ale West.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm not trying to be a front runner, but

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Speaker 2: like you said, Texas looks like they have figured things

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Speaker 2: out again. It's just I always think about in two

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Speaker 2: thousand and five when the White Sox win World Series.

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Speaker 2: We were playing in Chicago in the beginning of September.

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Speaker 2: In Chicago, they were awful. They were absolutely awful. As

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Speaker 2: the Angels went to the playoffs that year, we almost

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Speaker 2: we ended up losing to them in the play They

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Speaker 2: went to the World Series and won it, but they

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Speaker 2: were terrible. They were absolutely terrible. But all of a

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Speaker 2: sudden they flipped the switch. They're pitching was that good.

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Speaker 2: They turned things around, and of course they had a

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Speaker 2: good team, so that happens. Sometimes you got to go

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Speaker 2: through these bad moments and then if you regain traction,

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Speaker 2: here we go. And I think that's what Texas has done.

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Speaker 2: They've regained their mojo, they've regained traction. They've got a

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Speaker 2: lot of good things going on there. Montgomery's been pitching

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Speaker 2: extremely well, obviously, and so I think if they're in

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Speaker 2: the other two teams, again, it's a coin toss, but

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Speaker 2: it's the opposite there. Houston has the pedigree. They have

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Speaker 2: the pedigree, they've done it before. They got this weird

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Speaker 2: record this year where they're better on the road, correct,

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Speaker 2: which I don't get that I mean, and again it's

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Speaker 2: syntithetical to the years of banging on trash cans. And

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Speaker 2: I think they do play on the road towards the

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Speaker 2: end of the season, correct, Houston does.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they're done with the home schedule.

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Speaker 1: They actually finished under five hundred in their home schedule. Now,

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Speaker 1: in the history of baseball, there's in more than four

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Speaker 1: hundred postseason teams teams that made the postseason in full seasons,

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Speaker 1: not counting as shortened twenty twenty or eighty one seasons.

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Speaker 1: Only one of them had a losing record at home.

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Speaker 1: Is two thousand and one, Braves were one game under,

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Speaker 1: so it's very unusual to have a losing record at

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Speaker 1: home and still be a playoff team.

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Speaker 3: The Astros might be able to pull that off.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think they are. I mean, I guess what

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Speaker 2: I'm saying is, I think they will be based on

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Speaker 2: if they've been doing that all year, I don't see

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Speaker 2: any reason why that trend should discontinue. And again, I

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Speaker 2: just think the Mariners are just they pushed so hardy

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Speaker 2: it back into this thing. They went you know, south

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Speaker 2: through a bit. They were hot. Absolutely, they were hot,

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Speaker 2: But then again, it's about getting hot at the right time.

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Speaker 2: So I'm going with Houston and Texas, the two Texas

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Speaker 2: teams getting their way in there. I agree with the

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Speaker 2: Toronto component of this thing. So I just think that

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Speaker 2: eventually you're going to see shadow looking from the outside in.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they face I think they have to win the

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Speaker 1: next two against the Astros here after losing the opener.

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Speaker 1: My quick take on these three teams in the Al West. Texas, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I agree with you. They've righted the ship here. A

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Speaker 1: lot of that is Bruce Bochi is just I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's going to the Hall of fame. He knows how

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Speaker 1: to set the right tone with this team, no panic,

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Speaker 1: and it is a veteran team, so you don't expect

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Speaker 1: them to dig a bigger hole once they do hit

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Speaker 1: that eventual skid. One thing concerns me about Texas Joe

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Speaker 1: in the second half. Their bullpen is twenty sixth in

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Speaker 1: the major leagues and the second half of the season

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Speaker 1: era is over five. Now, this team is tremendous offensively,

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Speaker 1: and their path to make you run of the postseason

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Speaker 1: really is on the backs of their offense.

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Speaker 3: Reminds me a little bit of Philadelphia last year.

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Speaker 1: It's good enough to do that, as you know, it's

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Speaker 1: a hard way to navigate the postseason if you really

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Speaker 1: want to rely on offense. But I do think their

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Speaker 1: offense is that good where they can be a scary

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Speaker 1: team because they're loaded up and down the lineup.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been through it though. I mean, yeah, I

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Speaker 2: do like her. I do like their team offensively speaking, again,

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Speaker 2: there's something that I kind of thought I figured out

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Speaker 2: a little bit when I'm still there with Seeger. I

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Speaker 2: don't I mean really, I would not throw the guy's

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Speaker 2: strike the whole playoffs. I wouldn't throw him a strike.

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Speaker 2: I would make him adjusted to me, I would make

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Speaker 2: him swing out of pitches outside of the zone. And

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Speaker 2: then I take my chances with everybody else. I know

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Speaker 2: there's other good guys in the lineup. I get it.

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Speaker 2: But then when you start applying pressure in other areas,

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Speaker 2: it makes a difference with the group. You know, the

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Speaker 2: second basement's outstanding. You know the catcher has done a

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Speaker 2: really good job. But I just think that Seger is

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Speaker 2: really the straw right there to be very careful when

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Speaker 2: I play them, you know, pitching wise. Yeah, And the

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Speaker 2: thing about that is it's so antithetical boats, it's so

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Speaker 2: good with the bullpen. So it also indicates, you know,

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Speaker 2: regardless of how good you can manage a particular part

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Speaker 2: of the game, if you don't have the right players,

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Speaker 2: it makes it makes a problematic So those are really

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Speaker 2: important things to me. Is my bullpen in the playoff situation.

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Speaker 2: And if I'm relying on hitting only, you're going to

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Speaker 2: run into some hot pitching staffs, and that's they could

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Speaker 2: still do a number on you your offensive side of

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Speaker 2: the ball. So that would be my concern with them

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Speaker 2: moving forward. If the bullpen is not somewhat fixed and

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Speaker 2: becomes a little bit more us porous. It's going to

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Speaker 2: be difficult, very difficult, because good pitching will stop that,

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Speaker 2: I believe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, my take on Houston is the pedigree is just

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Speaker 1: too good to ignore here. And you don't like to

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Speaker 1: think teams can just turn it on and turn it off,

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Speaker 1: but they know how to win ball games when they

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Speaker 1: need to win ball games. There's just so much playoff experience.

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Speaker 1: They've been in just about every imaginable situation. Think about this.

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Speaker 1: They went through a three to nine stretch where they

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Speaker 1: lost three series to the Royals and the A's literally

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Speaker 1: the two worst teams in baseball. They look like they're

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Speaker 1: hanging by a thread. They walk into Seattle on the road,

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Speaker 1: give the ball to Justin Verlander, and he takes the

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Speaker 1: ball to the ninth inning.

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Speaker 3: How about this joke. Justin Verlander in that opener of the.

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Speaker 1: Three game series with Seattle, his average fastball velocity for

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Speaker 1: Steamer was ninety three point five. That's the lowest he's

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Speaker 1: had in any game since twenty sixteen, and he took

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Speaker 1: the ball to the ninth inning through an absolute gem. Oh,

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Speaker 1: by the way, the Mariners went zero for thirteen against

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Speaker 1: the guy with his worst quote unquote velocity since twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 3: That to me speaks to who the Astros are.

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Speaker 1: You trust the guys with the pedigree, and no team

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Speaker 1: has more a playoff pedigree right now than do the Astros.

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Speaker 2: Well, his breaking ball is so good right now, and

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Speaker 2: I don't even know what the Scott report necessarily is

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Speaker 2: with the Mariners fastball versus breaking ball. But again, he's

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Speaker 2: whatever he's lost there, he's picked up in his pitchability,

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Speaker 2: just knowledge is want to all that kind of stuff

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Speaker 2: is there. But last time I saw him on the two,

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Speaker 2: but I thought his breaking ball was really sharp. And

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Speaker 2: again he's got this uh, this inner flame thatf you have.

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Speaker 2: The last point about the Astros too, is that, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I think they're going to get to the playoffs, but

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Speaker 2: I think it's going to be hard to really get

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Speaker 2: deep into the playoffs just because and it is just

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Speaker 2: because they've been doing it for so many years now

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Speaker 2: to really fan the flames to the point where they

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Speaker 2: get hot enough internally mentally wanting it badly enough and

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Speaker 2: understid that's not an indictment against them. It's just difficult

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Speaker 2: as human beings to get to that level. You know,

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Speaker 2: I see I see Texas figuring it out a little

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Speaker 2: bit more than Houston does right now, just based on

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Speaker 2: the fact they haven't been there in a while, and

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Speaker 2: the and you know, boats there, the start they got

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Speaker 2: off to, all that stuff I think is going to

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Speaker 2: come back to them a little bit. So I like Texas,

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Speaker 2: even though I just say what I said about their bullpen,

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Speaker 2: and you could pitch them a little bit, but I

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Speaker 2: was just from a humanitarian perspective, a human perspective. I

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Speaker 2: think their their flames are going to be a little

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Speaker 2: bit hotter to get this done than Houston's.

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Speaker 3: As for Seattle, you mentioned their offense.

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Speaker 1: What I don't like about their offenses, there's just too

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Speaker 1: much swing and miss. So you look at the highest

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Speaker 1: strikeout rates in baseball, you've got Minnesota.

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Speaker 3: Number one and Seattle number two. That just too much

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Speaker 3: swing and miss.

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Speaker 1: And a guy like Verlander who has become, it really

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Speaker 1: has been for a long time, a complete pitcher. You know,

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Speaker 1: I threw it out there about his four seam fastball

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Speaker 1: because we always think a JV at that high riding

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Speaker 1: for seamer top of his own upper nineties. But man,

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Speaker 1: he knows how to pitch, as he mentioned the breaking

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Speaker 1: stuff is really good, so he can exploit a lineup

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Speaker 1: that has holes in it, swings and misses to be found.

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Speaker 1: And that's that scares me about Seattle. The other thing

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Speaker 1: here is it's generally a really good pitching staff. It's

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Speaker 1: a top three staff top to bottom of the major leagues,

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Speaker 1: but they rely a lot on young pitching. And the

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Speaker 1: Seattle starting pitchers in September are seven to nine with

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Speaker 1: a four to seven to seven era. You've got guys

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Speaker 1: like Kirby, who's gonna get the ball in the upcoming

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Speaker 1: game here, even Gilbert little bit, but some of those

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Speaker 1: guys now are at that point where that can they

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Speaker 1: hold it long enough to get this team into the postseason,

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Speaker 1: And September has not been good for a team that

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Speaker 1: really to me, their pitching is great, but it.

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Speaker 3: Hasn't been as good as it was the first five.

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Speaker 2: Months Uncharted Waters right. That's why I like when I

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Speaker 2: was with the Rays and Hite to go historical on everybody,

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Speaker 2: but I really wanted my starting pitching staff to throw

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Speaker 2: a thousand innings. I did. I really wanted to get

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Speaker 2: as close to two hundred out of each starter as

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Speaker 2: we possibly could, and sometimes exceeded, which we did. The

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Speaker 2: point is when you get to that level of competency

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Speaker 2: regarding mentally and physically being able to pitch that late

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Speaker 2: into the season successfully, I think that's a difference maker.

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Speaker 2: It's hard again, everybody wants to rely on bullpens. Now,

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Speaker 2: everybody wants to turn the ball over after five innings

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Speaker 2: or four plus whatever. I still like the tried and

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Speaker 2: true method to really develop thoroughbreds guys that can do

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Speaker 2: those kinds of things, and I think it can be developed.

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Speaker 2: I don't understand. The only thing preventing it, I think is,

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Speaker 2: if anything, the insistence upon throwing as hard as you

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Speaker 2: possibly can all the time, and then go out there,

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Speaker 2: you know, dial it up from first pitch as long

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Speaker 2: as you can as hard as you can. We'll bring

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Speaker 2: somebody else in. As opposed to pitchability, where guys can

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Speaker 2: go six six plus innings on a more consistent basis,

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Speaker 2: and it becomes a badge of honor when you're a

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Speaker 2: starting pitcher that you do throw two hundred are really

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Speaker 2: close to it on an annual basis. I still think

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Speaker 2: it's desirable to nurture that. Again, am I living in

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Speaker 2: the past. I don't know why. It's just it's very capable.

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Speaker 2: We're just not nurturing it now. Two ways we're not

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Speaker 2: permitting it to happen minor league wise, pushing guys a

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Speaker 2: little bit farther in innings pitch the number two by

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Speaker 2: insisting upon a method of just trying to throw the

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Speaker 2: ball as hard as you can and spinning the ball.

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Speaker 2: I think those are two things that are really preventing

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Speaker 2: the two hundred any pitcher.

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Speaker 1: It's a great point, Joe. I think you're absolutely dead

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Speaker 1: right about that. It's a chasing veloc and chasing swings

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Speaker 1: and misses on the mound. So that's why you see

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Speaker 1: abbreviated starts. Guy's not going deep into games. Walk rate

246
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Speaker 1: hasn't gotten any better, strikeout rate has. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I did a game last night for FS one the

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Speaker 1: Giants and watching Logan web pitch.

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Speaker 3: What a treat.

250
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Speaker 1: I mean, he's throwing ninety two at best, but the

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Speaker 1: movement on his sinker and changeup is just crazy. And

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Speaker 1: this is a kid who does not want to come.

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Speaker 3: Out of the game. Leads the major leagues and innings pitch.

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Speaker 1: He pitched the ninth inning and had a one run lead,

255
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Speaker 1: two runners on base, nobody out.

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Speaker 3: He was not coming out of that game.

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Speaker 1: He threw three straight ground balls two hundred and sixteen

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Speaker 1: innings into the season to get out of a ninth

259
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Speaker 1: inning gym and win the darn game. I mean, come on,

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Speaker 1: we need more of those kind of pitchers. That was

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Speaker 1: a treat to watch.

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Speaker 2: Isn't it. I mean, and again I don't. I do

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Speaker 2: believe it's out there. I do believe it's out there.

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Speaker 2: It's just it's just methodology. How are we going to

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Speaker 2: go about this? What are we going to permit? What

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Speaker 2: are we going to nurture? What do we think wins?

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Speaker 2: I mean, if the point analytics shifts to the point

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Speaker 2: where the starting picture becomes more necessary, then you'll see

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Speaker 2: organizations attempt to nurture and build up arm strength and

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Speaker 2: number of pictures thrown and get guys into mornings on

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Speaker 2: an annual basis. That's just an analytical shift. If everything

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Speaker 2: remains the same regarding the way front offices are constructed,

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Speaker 2: I do believe that. I believe, I know it. I've

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Speaker 2: seen it. I believe it. I know it. It has

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Speaker 2: it's going to come down to again, different training method

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Speaker 2: a different mindset, paradigm shift, in regards to how we

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Speaker 2: treat our minor league pictures and what we expect out

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Speaker 2: of them. And he even goes back to high school

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Speaker 2: and college, you know where they're they're just teaching kids

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Speaker 2: to crow up and throw as hard as they can.

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Speaker 2: That's got to go away. I was talking to a

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Speaker 2: trainer the other day, really my favorite trainer in all

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Speaker 2: of baseball. I'm not going to mention his name, but

284
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Speaker 2: he was telling me how arm injuries are so severe.

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Speaker 2: It's almost the arms are blowing up based on the

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Speaker 2: training methods employed today. And that's that's where you're seeing

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Speaker 2: this radical shift in the number of surgeries. And not

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Speaker 2: only that when they do get in there, the fact

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Speaker 2: that the arms are blown up so badly, these are

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Speaker 2: the kind of things that have to be addressed. And

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Speaker 2: there's only one reason. It's the methods being taught though,

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Speaker 2: the stress that's being put on the arm based on,

293
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Speaker 2: like you said, velocity missing bats. At the end of

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Speaker 2: the day, I wish I remember the pitcher that was

295
00:14:20,238 --> 00:14:22,798
Speaker 2: talking about pitching the contact. I wanted to applaud him.

296
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Speaker 2: You pitch the contact, then when you get to get

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Speaker 2: to two strikes, then you try to strike somebody out

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Speaker 2: in the right situation. But you can't strike somebody out

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Speaker 2: with zero strikes on him.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Joe, as long as we're talking about the American

301
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Speaker 1: League West, I want to ask you about Mike Trout.

302
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Speaker 1: He talked to the media actually for the first time

303
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Speaker 1: in a couple of weeks here this week. And a

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Speaker 1: lot of speculation about whether Mike Trout will want to

305
00:14:47,678 --> 00:14:50,238
Speaker 1: leave force a trade from the Angels. Now he has

306
00:14:50,238 --> 00:14:52,918
Speaker 1: a full note trade clause and nothing's happening unless Mike

307
00:14:52,958 --> 00:14:55,878
Speaker 1: Trout wants it to happen. He was somewhat and you

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00:14:55,918 --> 00:14:59,158
Speaker 1: know Mike so well, he's not going to rock anybody's boat,

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Speaker 1: and he's not going to answer a direct question about, Hey,

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Speaker 1: do you want to play here or do you want

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Speaker 1: to be.

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Speaker 3: He said something.

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Speaker 1: He's going to sit down with Artie Moreno and with

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Speaker 1: John Carpino, as he does at the end of every season.

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Speaker 3: He's going to go home kind of clear his mind.

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Speaker 1: You know, Mike likes to get away from the game

317
00:15:16,918 --> 00:15:19,118
Speaker 1: with his Eagles and his hunting and all that in

318
00:15:19,158 --> 00:15:22,838
Speaker 1: the offseason and then get ready for spring training in

319
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Speaker 1: an Angel's uniform. He wasn't committing to anything, but that's

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Speaker 1: Mike Trout. I mean, he's not going to rock anybody's boat, Joe.

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Speaker 1: I don't know your take on Mike, but I cannot

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Speaker 1: see Mike Trout saying get me out of here.

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Speaker 3: I could be totally wrong.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he's harboring something underneath the surface here, but he's

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00:15:39,598 --> 00:15:42,278
Speaker 1: such a loyal guy to the Angels, the way they've

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Speaker 1: treated him from the day they drafted him, after so

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Speaker 1: many teams passed on Mike. You know, I just don't

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Speaker 1: know if Mike Trout wants to go somewhere else. Does

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Speaker 1: he want to win absolutely? Does he want to force

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Speaker 1: a trade? That's a different question.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I and please take this the right away.

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Speaker 2: I'm not identifying myself in any way, shape or form

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00:16:01,078 --> 00:16:04,078
Speaker 2: to his talent level. I'm missed talking about geography. We're

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00:16:04,078 --> 00:16:06,838
Speaker 2: from the same neck of the woods. Basically, he's a

335
00:16:06,878 --> 00:16:09,318
Speaker 2: little bit into New Jersey, south of Philadelphia. I'm a

336
00:16:09,318 --> 00:16:12,678
Speaker 2: little bit north just where we come from. Yeah, I

337
00:16:13,358 --> 00:16:15,158
Speaker 2: don't see him doing those kinds of things. I don't

338
00:16:15,158 --> 00:16:18,278
Speaker 2: see him being demanding. When you're raised in a small

339
00:16:18,318 --> 00:16:22,318
Speaker 2: town like that and the humility that surrounds that, it's

340
00:16:22,358 --> 00:16:25,638
Speaker 2: difficult to ever arrive at the point where you think

341
00:16:25,718 --> 00:16:28,678
Speaker 2: things are all about you. So I don't see him

342
00:16:28,718 --> 00:16:31,558
Speaker 2: doing that. I could see him having a conversation. I

343
00:16:31,558 --> 00:16:37,078
Speaker 2: could see him just to Artie and John relaying his feelings,

344
00:16:37,078 --> 00:16:40,598
Speaker 2: his thoughts. But I just it's antithetical again to his

345
00:16:41,158 --> 00:16:44,518
Speaker 2: personality and where he comes from, his parental background and

346
00:16:44,558 --> 00:16:48,198
Speaker 2: his friends and his coaches. It's hard, man, It's hard to,

347
00:16:49,918 --> 00:16:53,198
Speaker 2: I think, to step away from that. Those roots stills upbringing.

348
00:16:53,278 --> 00:16:56,078
Speaker 2: So yeah, I could see him wanting to speak with

349
00:16:56,598 --> 00:17:01,478
Speaker 2: and finding out what they think more than forcing onto

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Speaker 2: them what he thinks.

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Speaker 1: Well said, Hey, we're going to take a quick break, Joe,

352
00:17:06,078 --> 00:17:08,198
Speaker 1: and when we get back, I really want to ask

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Speaker 1: you about managers around the game. We have not had

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Speaker 1: a managerial change in the course of this season. Are

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00:17:15,798 --> 00:17:18,518
Speaker 1: there any coming up after the season. We'll talk about

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Speaker 1: that next Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcasts. Yeah, managers,

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Speaker 1: how about this, Joe. None have been fired this year,

358
00:17:36,038 --> 00:17:39,518
Speaker 1: No changes. This is after last year. There were seven

359
00:17:39,558 --> 00:17:42,038
Speaker 1: teams that changed their manager either during the season and

360
00:17:42,118 --> 00:17:42,838
Speaker 1: after the season.

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Speaker 3: Of course you were part of that early on.

362
00:17:44,918 --> 00:17:47,278
Speaker 1: And I know, Joe, you're not going to bring this up,

363
00:17:47,358 --> 00:17:49,958
Speaker 1: but I will you talk about what happened with the

364
00:17:49,998 --> 00:17:53,638
Speaker 1: Angels with you. You had a three year contract with

365
00:17:53,678 --> 00:17:56,558
Speaker 1: an option year. The first year was a COVID season.

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00:17:56,998 --> 00:17:59,438
Speaker 1: I mean, no manager taking over our team is able

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Speaker 1: to implement any parts of their culture in a COVID

368
00:18:02,758 --> 00:18:05,918
Speaker 1: shortened season. It was just so unusual. The next year

369
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Speaker 1: there's a lockout, the spring training starts extremely late, and

370
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Speaker 1: half of your star players were basically on the il

371
00:18:14,198 --> 00:18:15,958
Speaker 1: for more than half of a season. And then the

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Speaker 1: next year, after twenty seven to twenty nine start, you're out.

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Speaker 3: So really three years you.

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Speaker 1: Didn't have a quote unquote normal season, not one. Okay,

375
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Speaker 1: since then, your record, by the way you were twenty

376
00:18:30,278 --> 00:18:32,918
Speaker 1: percentage was four eighty two, and that third year for

377
00:18:33,118 --> 00:18:37,838
Speaker 1: sixty eight. Overall, since then, the Angels are worse. They're

378
00:18:37,838 --> 00:18:40,278
Speaker 1: four forty one. So you're not going to say it,

379
00:18:40,318 --> 00:18:44,358
Speaker 1: but I'll say it that you really didn't have a

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00:18:44,438 --> 00:18:45,878
Speaker 1: full run with the Angels.

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Speaker 3: And as time is starting to show.

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Speaker 1: Here, the manager wasn't the problem with the Angels, because

383
00:18:50,918 --> 00:18:53,238
Speaker 1: they've been worse off since you've been gone.

384
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Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, it's I really did want to stay there longer.

385
00:18:57,518 --> 00:18:59,438
Speaker 2: I wanted to stay there actually for a long time

386
00:18:59,918 --> 00:19:02,598
Speaker 2: I grew up as an Angel, I was a California Angel,

387
00:19:02,838 --> 00:19:04,518
Speaker 2: and that's really why I wanted to go back there.

388
00:19:04,518 --> 00:19:08,118
Speaker 2: I thought my relationship with Artie was one that I

389
00:19:08,118 --> 00:19:11,158
Speaker 2: would be able to be given the opportunity to bring

390
00:19:11,238 --> 00:19:13,758
Speaker 2: us back to what I considered the glory years. It

391
00:19:13,798 --> 00:19:17,558
Speaker 2: was such a big part of the first World Series

392
00:19:17,638 --> 00:19:20,358
Speaker 2: championship and then after that, even to the point I

393
00:19:20,438 --> 00:19:22,958
Speaker 2: left with the Rays and go back to the minor

394
00:19:23,038 --> 00:19:25,598
Speaker 2: league level. So I went California Angel. That's who I am,

395
00:19:25,718 --> 00:19:27,878
Speaker 2: and I'll say that to anybody. And I really had

396
00:19:27,958 --> 00:19:31,078
Speaker 2: wished that Ardy had renamed him rebranded them the California

397
00:19:31,078 --> 00:19:33,398
Speaker 2: Angels when he took them over, as opposed to the

398
00:19:33,398 --> 00:19:36,798
Speaker 2: Los Angeles Angeles, which says no, does not ring with

399
00:19:36,838 --> 00:19:39,998
Speaker 2: me at all. I just think it's too far from

400
00:19:39,998 --> 00:19:42,798
Speaker 2: the truth. So anyway, having said that, yeah, I wanted

401
00:19:42,798 --> 00:19:44,438
Speaker 2: to be there longer. I really do believe we could

402
00:19:44,478 --> 00:19:46,918
Speaker 2: have turned it around one hundred percent, not even ninety

403
00:19:46,958 --> 00:19:49,678
Speaker 2: nine percent. There was a lot of things there that

404
00:19:50,278 --> 00:19:53,198
Speaker 2: I felt we're going in the right direction, as evidence

405
00:19:53,238 --> 00:19:56,478
Speaker 2: by the beginning of that season or my last season there,

406
00:19:56,478 --> 00:19:58,758
Speaker 2: and then we just couldn't hit We just couldn't pitch.

407
00:20:00,158 --> 00:20:03,478
Speaker 2: I was forced to make some bullpen decisions based on availability,

408
00:20:03,918 --> 00:20:05,238
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, Bob's your uncle and

409
00:20:05,278 --> 00:20:08,358
Speaker 2: I'm out of there. Right But you're talking about that

410
00:20:08,438 --> 00:20:11,838
Speaker 2: situation compared to now, and again, I think the lack

411
00:20:12,158 --> 00:20:15,478
Speaker 2: or why we're not seeing as many managerial firings is

412
00:20:15,518 --> 00:20:18,278
Speaker 2: because of the influence of the front office. I was

413
00:20:18,318 --> 00:20:21,758
Speaker 2: in more of a unilateral decision making situation with the angels.

414
00:20:21,758 --> 00:20:24,878
Speaker 2: I did fight on some things I didn't like. I

415
00:20:24,998 --> 00:20:27,478
Speaker 2: let people know what I didn't like, and that probably

416
00:20:27,598 --> 00:20:29,878
Speaker 2: was a big part of my demise there. But you're

417
00:20:29,878 --> 00:20:31,798
Speaker 2: not going to get that for most managers today. You're

418
00:20:31,798 --> 00:20:34,838
Speaker 2: not going to get pushed back with front offices when

419
00:20:34,838 --> 00:20:37,518
Speaker 2: you don't agree with something you know. Quite frankly, a

420
00:20:37,518 --> 00:20:38,998
Speaker 2: lot of the guys that are managing right now, I've

421
00:20:39,038 --> 00:20:42,038
Speaker 2: never done it before prior to this, so you don't

422
00:20:42,038 --> 00:20:44,598
Speaker 2: really know what you think. Sometimes you just know they

423
00:20:44,998 --> 00:20:46,998
Speaker 2: what the group of on top tells you to think.

424
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Speaker 2: I'm just being honest. So I think the lack of

425
00:20:50,278 --> 00:20:52,918
Speaker 2: firing is pretty much because there's so much influence from

426
00:20:52,958 --> 00:20:56,838
Speaker 2: the front office to the clubhouse of the game that

427
00:20:56,998 --> 00:20:59,118
Speaker 2: would almost be like they'd be firing themselves, you know,

428
00:20:59,238 --> 00:21:02,038
Speaker 2: if in fact they chose to let a manager go

429
00:21:02,158 --> 00:21:05,118
Speaker 2: after feeding him so much in information, asking him to

430
00:21:05,158 --> 00:21:07,358
Speaker 2: do so many different things during the game, and then

431
00:21:07,398 --> 00:21:10,158
Speaker 2: eventually saying you're the problem, when in fact, obviously it's

432
00:21:10,198 --> 00:21:14,278
Speaker 2: not true. So that's my short winded die.

433
00:21:14,358 --> 00:21:16,558
Speaker 3: Try well think about it.

434
00:21:16,678 --> 00:21:20,558
Speaker 1: I mean, there's been some great surprise teams pop up,

435
00:21:20,598 --> 00:21:22,798
Speaker 1: the Reds still in the race here in the last week,

436
00:21:22,878 --> 00:21:25,598
Speaker 1: the Diamondbacks of course, the Orioles taking a huge leap

437
00:21:25,678 --> 00:21:26,798
Speaker 1: forward with Brandon Hye.

438
00:21:26,798 --> 00:21:30,078
Speaker 3: This year great stories, right, But a big part of this.

439
00:21:30,038 --> 00:21:33,118
Speaker 1: Year also is the amount of money spent on teams

440
00:21:33,158 --> 00:21:37,918
Speaker 1: that really have been disasters. The three biggest payrolls in baseball,

441
00:21:37,998 --> 00:21:42,758
Speaker 1: the Mets, the Yankees, the Padres, all with losing records.

442
00:21:43,278 --> 00:21:47,958
Speaker 1: The Cardinals and the White Sox have been disasters. I

443
00:21:48,118 --> 00:21:50,878
Speaker 1: don't know if we're going to see a managerial change

444
00:21:50,878 --> 00:21:54,838
Speaker 1: among any of those teams. It's really interesting to me

445
00:21:54,998 --> 00:21:58,558
Speaker 1: that some of these teams that really underachieve.

446
00:21:58,598 --> 00:21:59,718
Speaker 3: You don't hear a lot of noise.

447
00:21:59,798 --> 00:21:59,958
Speaker 2: Now.

448
00:22:00,038 --> 00:22:02,478
Speaker 1: Aaron Boom was just kind of speaking out loud, answering

449
00:22:02,558 --> 00:22:06,238
Speaker 1: questions the other day. He doesn't know what his future

450
00:22:06,318 --> 00:22:08,478
Speaker 1: is going to be with the Yankees. I gotta believe

451
00:22:08,518 --> 00:22:09,198
Speaker 1: he's coming back.

452
00:22:09,278 --> 00:22:09,438
Speaker 3: Joe.

453
00:22:09,878 --> 00:22:12,238
Speaker 1: This season is not on Aaron Boone. I think the

454
00:22:12,278 --> 00:22:15,278
Speaker 1: players have made it clear that they like him, not

455
00:22:15,358 --> 00:22:18,158
Speaker 1: that that's the be all and the end all. You know,

456
00:22:18,278 --> 00:22:21,638
Speaker 1: sometimes you know, you get the confidence of the players

457
00:22:21,678 --> 00:22:22,918
Speaker 1: and there's.

458
00:22:22,758 --> 00:22:24,558
Speaker 3: Other things that are lacking. I get that, but I

459
00:22:24,558 --> 00:22:25,518
Speaker 3: think he's done a good job.

460
00:22:25,558 --> 00:22:28,158
Speaker 1: I think the roster was really not built for today's

461
00:22:28,198 --> 00:22:29,078
Speaker 1: game to start out.

462
00:22:29,118 --> 00:22:31,558
Speaker 3: That's not on him. Give me a quick take on

463
00:22:31,598 --> 00:22:32,318
Speaker 3: Aaron Boone.

464
00:22:32,598 --> 00:22:34,958
Speaker 2: I agree, I agree all those guys you mentioned should

465
00:22:34,958 --> 00:22:37,598
Speaker 2: come back next year. It's more of the acquisitional process

466
00:22:37,598 --> 00:22:40,318
Speaker 2: than it is the end game management of the team.

467
00:22:40,838 --> 00:22:42,998
Speaker 2: There are so many folks that want to be involved

468
00:22:43,238 --> 00:22:47,118
Speaker 2: in the daily runnings or the making of the team

469
00:22:47,118 --> 00:22:49,438
Speaker 2: that it becomes confusing. And I think again that's why

470
00:22:50,438 --> 00:22:53,958
Speaker 2: it's very difficult to pin any of the negativity on

471
00:22:53,998 --> 00:22:57,438
Speaker 2: the managers, because they are just part of this fluid

472
00:22:57,438 --> 00:23:00,198
Speaker 2: system that runs from the top to the bottom, from ownership,

473
00:23:00,318 --> 00:23:03,278
Speaker 2: from some of these situations right down to the dials

474
00:23:03,358 --> 00:23:07,398
Speaker 2: ownership an office eventure to the dugout. So they're they're

475
00:23:07,478 --> 00:23:11,038
Speaker 2: great communicators. Aaron Is, buck Is, Bobby Melboyne is I

476
00:23:11,038 --> 00:23:13,998
Speaker 2: mean you've mentioned somebody else too, I can't remember. But

477
00:23:14,038 --> 00:23:15,918
Speaker 2: these guys are all good, good, really good at what

478
00:23:15,958 --> 00:23:18,158
Speaker 2: they do, and they're great communicators, and a big part

479
00:23:18,198 --> 00:23:21,638
Speaker 2: of their job is to at least twice a day

480
00:23:21,638 --> 00:23:23,518
Speaker 2: get in front of the cameras before after the game

481
00:23:24,038 --> 00:23:28,278
Speaker 2: and then kind of be the spokesperson almost the press

482
00:23:28,278 --> 00:23:30,838
Speaker 2: secretary for the organization. And these guys are really good

483
00:23:30,838 --> 00:23:34,678
Speaker 2: at that. So again, the acquisitional process needs to be

484
00:23:36,318 --> 00:23:40,078
Speaker 2: more under scrutiny as opposed to the managerial process. Uh No,

485
00:23:40,238 --> 00:23:43,518
Speaker 2: one and then and then again. Analytically, I know that

486
00:23:43,558 --> 00:23:46,478
Speaker 2: the Yankees are going through this analytical deep dive, which

487
00:23:46,798 --> 00:23:50,718
Speaker 2: I find interesting. It's I think eventually all this is

488
00:23:50,718 --> 00:23:52,518
Speaker 2: going to lead to more of a balanced situation, which

489
00:23:52,558 --> 00:23:55,598
Speaker 2: I think is great, where you do balance analytics with

490
00:23:56,478 --> 00:24:02,518
Speaker 2: baseball acumen teaching the game, and then using analytics serving baseball,

491
00:24:02,638 --> 00:24:05,358
Speaker 2: not baseball serving, which is I think pretty much what's

492
00:24:05,398 --> 00:24:07,198
Speaker 2: going on right now. So I think you get back

493
00:24:07,198 --> 00:24:10,198
Speaker 2: to this balanced situation, and if in fact the manager

494
00:24:10,238 --> 00:24:14,238
Speaker 2: becomes more prominent decision making, then it will be where

495
00:24:14,278 --> 00:24:18,878
Speaker 2: you see managers either glorified or fired or consistently or easily.

496
00:24:18,918 --> 00:24:23,638
Speaker 2: But when the brunt of the decision making is being

497
00:24:23,678 --> 00:24:27,278
Speaker 2: derived or dictated from up above, it's hard for these

498
00:24:27,358 --> 00:24:30,838
Speaker 2: managers to be fired because they're pretty much basically carrying

499
00:24:30,878 --> 00:24:32,438
Speaker 2: out what the front office wants.

500
00:24:32,878 --> 00:24:35,398
Speaker 1: You're right, and I think that's especially true with the

501
00:24:35,438 --> 00:24:37,398
Speaker 1: Yankees with Aaron Boone and Brian Cashman.

502
00:24:37,398 --> 00:24:38,638
Speaker 3: They have a great relationship.

503
00:24:39,398 --> 00:24:42,438
Speaker 1: I don't think it makes sense to go anywhere else

504
00:24:42,758 --> 00:24:46,038
Speaker 1: when they do work together very well. And that's not

505
00:24:46,038 --> 00:24:48,158
Speaker 1: a knock on Boone, as you said, it's just the

506
00:24:48,158 --> 00:24:51,158
Speaker 1: way that the game is now. A couple of other situations,

507
00:24:51,158 --> 00:24:53,798
Speaker 1: now Buck Showalter with the Mets. That's interesting because now

508
00:24:53,918 --> 00:24:57,318
Speaker 1: David Sterns is the president of Baseball Operation. New guy

509
00:24:57,438 --> 00:25:00,078
Speaker 1: comes in and you don't know, so I think it's

510
00:25:00,078 --> 00:25:03,038
Speaker 1: probably fifty to fifty whether David Sterns wants Bucks show

511
00:25:03,078 --> 00:25:07,158
Speaker 1: Walter back. Think when you hire David Stearns, who essentially

512
00:25:07,198 --> 00:25:09,478
Speaker 1: was a free agent and a Marquis free agent, for

513
00:25:09,558 --> 00:25:12,398
Speaker 1: what he does, you give him the right to pick

514
00:25:12,398 --> 00:25:13,238
Speaker 1: his own manager.

515
00:25:13,598 --> 00:25:15,638
Speaker 3: I think that's clear. We don't know where he is

516
00:25:15,678 --> 00:25:16,078
Speaker 3: on Buck.

517
00:25:16,158 --> 00:25:19,518
Speaker 1: We'll have to find out in San Diego with Bob Melvin,

518
00:25:19,998 --> 00:25:22,038
Speaker 1: you know him and Aj Pereller have been together now a.

519
00:25:22,078 --> 00:25:22,838
Speaker 3: Couple of years.

520
00:25:22,878 --> 00:25:25,998
Speaker 1: They went to the NLCS last year, and really the

521
00:25:26,038 --> 00:25:29,478
Speaker 1: relationship has not been great or at least productive in

522
00:25:29,678 --> 00:25:30,838
Speaker 1: this season.

523
00:25:31,358 --> 00:25:32,158
Speaker 3: So I don't know.

524
00:25:32,278 --> 00:25:35,118
Speaker 1: I don't know if if that relationship is going to

525
00:25:35,158 --> 00:25:38,638
Speaker 1: continue going forward. Are both going to be back? Is

526
00:25:38,758 --> 00:25:40,838
Speaker 1: one going to be back and not the other. There's

527
00:25:40,878 --> 00:25:43,398
Speaker 1: a lot of questions with San Diego. No one knows

528
00:25:43,438 --> 00:25:46,438
Speaker 1: where they're going, other than their payroll is going to

529
00:25:46,478 --> 00:25:50,758
Speaker 1: be reduced. Blake Snell, Josh had free agents. They'll put

530
00:25:50,798 --> 00:25:53,518
Speaker 1: one Soto on the trade market, see what they can get.

531
00:25:54,878 --> 00:25:58,558
Speaker 1: The baseball town that San Diego has become is a

532
00:25:58,598 --> 00:26:01,878
Speaker 1: tremendous story. I mean, they filled that place, sold out

533
00:26:01,918 --> 00:26:03,558
Speaker 1: more than sixty of their home games.

534
00:26:03,718 --> 00:26:05,158
Speaker 3: Is tremendous atmosphere.

535
00:26:05,198 --> 00:26:09,558
Speaker 1: It's really analogous to Philly going to Citizens Bank Ballpark.

536
00:26:09,598 --> 00:26:12,358
Speaker 1: The energy in that ballpark is tremendous. Those fans turned

537
00:26:12,358 --> 00:26:15,798
Speaker 1: out for a losing team this year. I think they,

538
00:26:15,958 --> 00:26:18,278
Speaker 1: like the Yankees, are going to have to really take

539
00:26:18,318 --> 00:26:21,318
Speaker 1: a deep dive here, not just into the analytics, but

540
00:26:21,518 --> 00:26:24,198
Speaker 1: who are they as a franchise and where are they going?

541
00:26:24,278 --> 00:26:27,398
Speaker 1: It's not an obvious answer to that question, but I

542
00:26:27,398 --> 00:26:30,078
Speaker 1: think San Diego has some hard questions they have to answer,

543
00:26:30,078 --> 00:26:32,598
Speaker 1: and I think both the general manager and the manager

544
00:26:32,638 --> 00:26:33,838
Speaker 1: are part of those questions.

545
00:26:34,598 --> 00:26:37,478
Speaker 2: You said it properly. The relationship. I mean, that's a

546
00:26:37,478 --> 00:26:41,038
Speaker 2: big part of a most important part of all of this,

547
00:26:42,478 --> 00:26:44,798
Speaker 2: the relationship. Like when I was with the Angels there,

548
00:26:45,078 --> 00:26:48,278
Speaker 2: Perry did not hire me, so I totally understand him

549
00:26:48,318 --> 00:26:50,238
Speaker 2: wanting to get his own guy at some point. I

550
00:26:50,278 --> 00:26:53,598
Speaker 2: do get it. I can't deny that at all. The

551
00:26:53,638 --> 00:26:58,038
Speaker 2: relationship between the GM and the field manager is extremely important. Again,

552
00:26:58,078 --> 00:27:01,638
Speaker 2: I for years with Andrew. Andrew and I we did

553
00:27:01,718 --> 00:27:06,718
Speaker 2: wonderfully together. And I used to advise my people that

554
00:27:06,758 --> 00:27:08,438
Speaker 2: I knew that were in the game. We're not getting

555
00:27:08,518 --> 00:27:11,958
Speaker 2: jobs coaches on the minor league level, whatever. I advised

556
00:27:11,958 --> 00:27:13,958
Speaker 2: them that they really need to understand this new method

557
00:27:13,958 --> 00:27:16,758
Speaker 2: I did about analytics and how it applies to the game.

558
00:27:17,078 --> 00:27:19,718
Speaker 2: If you're not into it, please school yourself a bit

559
00:27:19,758 --> 00:27:21,798
Speaker 2: on it, because you really need to be able to

560
00:27:22,078 --> 00:27:24,518
Speaker 2: speak that language in order to get a job. And

561
00:27:24,558 --> 00:27:27,518
Speaker 2: I knew that, and I did advise people about that.

562
00:27:27,638 --> 00:27:31,238
Speaker 2: Andrew and I were able to balance all of that

563
00:27:31,318 --> 00:27:33,198
Speaker 2: because Andrew knew where I was coming from. He knew

564
00:27:33,238 --> 00:27:34,558
Speaker 2: I was into it. I mean, it was started from

565
00:27:34,598 --> 00:27:38,198
Speaker 2: the first time I walked into that room in Houston

566
00:27:38,278 --> 00:27:41,198
Speaker 2: for that interview. I came armed with a notebook full

567
00:27:41,238 --> 00:27:43,918
Speaker 2: of my analytical stuff. He knew that from the beginning,

568
00:27:43,958 --> 00:27:47,878
Speaker 2: But he also knew how severely important it was to

569
00:27:47,918 --> 00:27:53,078
Speaker 2: me to incorporate old school methods of scouting, teaching, etc.

570
00:27:54,038 --> 00:27:56,278
Speaker 2: And I really tried to impart that on him because

571
00:27:56,358 --> 00:27:58,358
Speaker 2: that's something he had not been a part of prior

572
00:27:58,438 --> 00:28:00,518
Speaker 2: to coming into that. And we created this wonderful balance,

573
00:28:00,558 --> 00:28:03,118
Speaker 2: I thought, where we could argue, he and I could argue,

574
00:28:03,118 --> 00:28:06,758
Speaker 2: which was really important. We had some great arguments, really

575
00:28:06,758 --> 00:28:09,838
Speaker 2: good about different whether it's who to play, who not

576
00:28:09,878 --> 00:28:12,118
Speaker 2: to play, whether to swing on a three and zero

577
00:28:12,118 --> 00:28:15,438
Speaker 2: count or not. All those things were really good argument

578
00:28:15,438 --> 00:28:18,438
Speaker 2: seeing I had back then and even to the role

579
00:28:18,478 --> 00:28:22,238
Speaker 2: of the bullpen guy, where you go to a higher

580
00:28:22,318 --> 00:28:26,518
Speaker 2: leverage guy in a situation earlier in a game, even

581
00:28:26,558 --> 00:28:29,038
Speaker 2: though traditionally it said you should go from to the

582
00:28:29,118 --> 00:28:31,438
Speaker 2: seventh to day to the ninth any guy. He's the

583
00:28:31,478 --> 00:28:33,958
Speaker 2: guy that really changed my thinking on that. Gosh, I

584
00:28:33,958 --> 00:28:35,998
Speaker 2: don't even know it was twenty twelve or eleven or

585
00:28:36,358 --> 00:28:38,558
Speaker 2: somewhere in that general vicinity. So we had this really

586
00:28:38,558 --> 00:28:41,958
Speaker 2: good method going on where we could. We had this

587
00:28:42,038 --> 00:28:46,078
Speaker 2: relationship that we could argue health and a healthy manner,

588
00:28:46,638 --> 00:28:49,398
Speaker 2: and I was his guy, and that's why we survived

589
00:28:49,438 --> 00:28:53,358
Speaker 2: and we did so well together. Gms have to have

590
00:28:53,438 --> 00:28:57,238
Speaker 2: their guy and it should be rooted in a great relationship.

591
00:28:57,238 --> 00:28:59,478
Speaker 2: I thought THEO and I had that too. When I

592
00:28:59,518 --> 00:29:01,598
Speaker 2: went to the Cubs. I was kind of disappointed there

593
00:29:02,198 --> 00:29:05,438
Speaker 2: after five years because I thought we had actually way

594
00:29:05,478 --> 00:29:07,398
Speaker 2: more left in the tank than that, but it didn't

595
00:29:07,438 --> 00:29:10,158
Speaker 2: work out that way. But that's it. You have to

596
00:29:10,278 --> 00:29:12,758
Speaker 2: you have to be the GM needs pretty much needs

597
00:29:12,758 --> 00:29:14,718
Speaker 2: to hire whoever that GM is. He needs to hire

598
00:29:14,758 --> 00:29:18,398
Speaker 2: you to really work up that same sheet of music.

599
00:29:18,478 --> 00:29:20,958
Speaker 1: I think, Joe you said that so well, and I

600
00:29:20,958 --> 00:29:23,518
Speaker 1: think the most important point to drive home there is

601
00:29:23,598 --> 00:29:27,198
Speaker 1: that disagreement is good and healthy. It's part of a

602
00:29:27,358 --> 00:29:32,078
Speaker 1: productive atmosphere. You want people around you who can challenge

603
00:29:32,318 --> 00:29:35,518
Speaker 1: your beliefs, but you don't want people just to rubber

604
00:29:35,638 --> 00:29:37,798
Speaker 1: stamp where you're going. It doesn't mean you have to

605
00:29:37,798 --> 00:29:41,558
Speaker 1: be at loggerheads all the time. But debate is healthy.

606
00:29:41,718 --> 00:29:44,158
Speaker 1: It's it's not a bad thing. When you hear about

607
00:29:44,198 --> 00:29:48,118
Speaker 1: some friction, that's good. It makes you rethink the different

608
00:29:48,158 --> 00:29:51,478
Speaker 1: perspectives in any kind of line of work. I think

609
00:29:51,558 --> 00:29:54,158
Speaker 1: is healthy. It's part of what teamwork is all about.

610
00:29:54,198 --> 00:29:56,158
Speaker 1: So I'm glad you drove that home. It doesn't mean

611
00:29:56,278 --> 00:29:59,238
Speaker 1: that you have to dislike one another. You shouldn't be

612
00:29:59,318 --> 00:30:02,358
Speaker 1: challenged by someone's difference of opinion. You actually welcome it.

613
00:30:02,518 --> 00:30:05,358
Speaker 2: Let me tell you this, that's been that's really been missing, honestly,

614
00:30:05,478 --> 00:30:08,598
Speaker 2: more recently in the game, people players, I mean coaches

615
00:30:08,638 --> 00:30:10,878
Speaker 2: are afraid to argue. I think for two reasons. Number one,

616
00:30:10,918 --> 00:30:13,518
Speaker 2: they really don't know what they believe anymore. Because again

617
00:30:13,598 --> 00:30:15,318
Speaker 2: I'll go back to my minor league training. I knew

618
00:30:15,318 --> 00:30:18,158
Speaker 2: what I believed. I knew what I knew based on

619
00:30:18,278 --> 00:30:21,478
Speaker 2: the mentors that I had coming up. I knew that

620
00:30:21,118 --> 00:30:23,798
Speaker 2: I was firmly entrenched to be the guys today. A

621
00:30:23,798 --> 00:30:27,358
Speaker 2: lot of them have not spent enough time being mentored

622
00:30:27,398 --> 00:30:29,998
Speaker 2: in the minor leagues by true teachers of the game.

623
00:30:30,758 --> 00:30:32,958
Speaker 2: My biggest concern is who's passing on the game to

624
00:30:32,998 --> 00:30:36,398
Speaker 2: the next generation of coaches, Even more than players. Who's

625
00:30:36,438 --> 00:30:39,638
Speaker 2: the influence, Who are the influencers regarding how the game's

626
00:30:39,678 --> 00:30:42,558
Speaker 2: being taught now and how that's going to move forward.

627
00:30:43,678 --> 00:30:47,518
Speaker 2: I'm the influencer now based on nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties

628
00:30:47,558 --> 00:30:49,278
Speaker 2: baseball and all the people I ran into at that

629
00:30:49,598 --> 00:30:53,358
Speaker 2: particular junction, and I bring into bear that and combining

630
00:30:53,398 --> 00:30:56,198
Speaker 2: that with what I've learned since then in a more

631
00:30:56,598 --> 00:30:58,998
Speaker 2: contemporary approach. Whether you want to call that analytics or not.

632
00:30:59,358 --> 00:31:01,798
Speaker 2: But I think I'm able to blend both because I've

633
00:31:01,838 --> 00:31:06,198
Speaker 2: had such wonderful mentors to be careful regarding who's coaching

634
00:31:06,198 --> 00:31:08,998
Speaker 2: the coaches, who's mentoring that group that's going to bring

635
00:31:09,038 --> 00:31:10,638
Speaker 2: the game to the next decade or so.

636
00:31:10,878 --> 00:31:14,518
Speaker 1: Well, Joe, That leads me to our next segment here

637
00:31:14,598 --> 00:31:17,278
Speaker 1: after a break, we will talk about there will be

638
00:31:17,478 --> 00:31:21,718
Speaker 1: at least one managerial change, and it's a guy that

639
00:31:21,998 --> 00:31:23,678
Speaker 1: you have a lot in common with.

640
00:31:24,118 --> 00:31:25,518
Speaker 3: We'll talk about that right after this.

641
00:31:38,198 --> 00:31:41,518
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast and Joe Madden.

642
00:31:41,758 --> 00:31:45,558
Speaker 1: The parallels you have with Terry Francona are very interesting.

643
00:31:45,918 --> 00:31:50,358
Speaker 1: You know, Terry hasn't come out and officially announced that

644
00:31:50,438 --> 00:31:53,478
Speaker 1: he is going to retire, whatever that may be for Terry,

645
00:31:53,518 --> 00:31:56,078
Speaker 1: but yeah, he's not coming back to the Guardians. Just

646
00:31:56,118 --> 00:32:00,678
Speaker 1: an incredible career in baseball. You just finished talking about,

647
00:32:00,958 --> 00:32:03,518
Speaker 1: you know, getting some experience under your belt, kind of

648
00:32:03,598 --> 00:32:06,438
Speaker 1: learning your way up the baseball ladder. He has done that,

649
00:32:06,998 --> 00:32:08,958
Speaker 1: not just by playing the major leagues, but he went

650
00:32:08,998 --> 00:32:12,078
Speaker 1: to rookie ball, he went to a ball, he went

651
00:32:12,078 --> 00:32:15,638
Speaker 1: to double A three years he was in front office.

652
00:32:16,198 --> 00:32:19,758
Speaker 1: That was all before he got a job managing the Phillies.

653
00:32:19,798 --> 00:32:23,238
Speaker 1: And after the two thousand and three season, it's Joe

654
00:32:23,238 --> 00:32:26,238
Speaker 1: Madden and Terry Francona who are both up for the

655
00:32:26,278 --> 00:32:30,878
Speaker 1: Boston Red Sox job. Just a loaded team ready to win,

656
00:32:30,918 --> 00:32:33,918
Speaker 1: as it turned out, and Terry Francona was the guy

657
00:32:33,958 --> 00:32:37,478
Speaker 1: to get it done. Terry Francona wins in Boston, Joe

658
00:32:37,518 --> 00:32:40,638
Speaker 1: Madden wins in Chicago with the Cubs too. The longest

659
00:32:40,678 --> 00:32:44,398
Speaker 1: droughts to the most historical droughts in sports history, those

660
00:32:44,438 --> 00:32:48,718
Speaker 1: two guys ended those droughts. Terry Francona has a career

661
00:32:48,798 --> 00:32:51,358
Speaker 1: winning percentage as a manager of five to thirty nine

662
00:32:51,998 --> 00:32:56,078
Speaker 1: Joe Madden five thirty two. By the way, Francona ejected

663
00:32:56,118 --> 00:32:58,558
Speaker 1: fifty times in his career in Joe Madden fifty nine,

664
00:32:58,678 --> 00:33:00,198
Speaker 1: so they've got that as well.

665
00:33:01,478 --> 00:33:02,198
Speaker 3: Of course, we.

666
00:33:02,118 --> 00:33:05,718
Speaker 1: Cannot forget the twenty sixteen World Series Joe madd and

667
00:33:05,798 --> 00:33:09,678
Speaker 1: Terry Francona go up against one another. The darn series

668
00:33:09,758 --> 00:33:13,078
Speaker 1: is tied after nine innings in the seventh game. That's

669
00:33:13,078 --> 00:33:16,678
Speaker 1: how close that series was. So Terry Francona one of

670
00:33:16,718 --> 00:33:19,878
Speaker 1: the true characters in the game. Besides being just a

671
00:33:19,918 --> 00:33:23,078
Speaker 1: fantastic manager. I think he's just beloved everywhere that he's

672
00:33:23,118 --> 00:33:26,798
Speaker 1: been by every player he's had. So I'm interested, Joe

673
00:33:26,998 --> 00:33:29,958
Speaker 1: in your quick thoughts on Tito and and how long

674
00:33:29,998 --> 00:33:30,918
Speaker 1: you've gotten to know him.

675
00:33:31,118 --> 00:33:34,758
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you said, I started in zero four when

676
00:33:35,638 --> 00:33:37,638
Speaker 2: he and I both were interviewed for the Red Sox job.

677
00:33:37,678 --> 00:33:42,838
Speaker 2: I remember that really, really well, the first obviously big opportunity,

678
00:33:43,518 --> 00:33:49,038
Speaker 2: and I remember interviewing with THEO Jed and.

679
00:33:50,638 --> 00:33:53,598
Speaker 3: Shoot with the Dodgers name Josh Burns.

680
00:33:53,758 --> 00:33:57,838
Speaker 2: Josh Burns, Yeah, and Phoenix. I remember that interview very well.

681
00:33:57,878 --> 00:34:01,198
Speaker 2: They put me through a bunch of exercises and I

682
00:34:01,198 --> 00:34:03,358
Speaker 2: bought a special suit because Blue but basically told me

683
00:34:03,398 --> 00:34:05,718
Speaker 2: I had to all this kind of stuff. And I

684
00:34:05,798 --> 00:34:08,198
Speaker 2: sat down in the Phoenician. I think it was, and

685
00:34:08,238 --> 00:34:11,798
Speaker 2: we talked, and great experience for me, and of course

686
00:34:11,878 --> 00:34:14,598
Speaker 2: I lost out to Terry, but I was I was.

687
00:34:14,638 --> 00:34:16,878
Speaker 2: I told THEO later, you did the right thing. You

688
00:34:16,918 --> 00:34:19,998
Speaker 2: picked the right guy. It wasn't really ready to be

689
00:34:20,038 --> 00:34:23,238
Speaker 2: in Boston at that moment. I think Tito's experience having

690
00:34:23,278 --> 00:34:27,198
Speaker 2: been in Philadelphia really played well for him. I think

691
00:34:27,238 --> 00:34:30,838
Speaker 2: it made him more exactly ready for that particular job

692
00:34:30,838 --> 00:34:32,558
Speaker 2: as I would have been. So I thought that was

693
00:34:32,598 --> 00:34:35,638
Speaker 2: a great decision on Theo's choice. Pardon I told him so.

694
00:34:36,598 --> 00:34:40,638
Speaker 2: Moving forward, though we had match ax to Lockhorns. You know,

695
00:34:40,678 --> 00:34:42,878
Speaker 2: we talked about the winning percentage of the first two

696
00:34:42,958 --> 00:34:45,558
Speaker 2: years in Tampa Bay were difficult. Man. We lost one

697
00:34:45,598 --> 00:34:47,918
Speaker 2: hundred and almost one hundred games his next first two years.

698
00:34:48,318 --> 00:34:50,318
Speaker 2: And then after that in two thousand and eight, that's

699
00:34:50,358 --> 00:34:52,518
Speaker 2: when the Rays became good and we played the Red

700
00:34:52,518 --> 00:34:55,358
Speaker 2: Sox and that was the first big encounter we had

701
00:34:55,518 --> 00:34:59,398
Speaker 2: was Game seven when we won on that ground ball

702
00:34:59,438 --> 00:35:00,678
Speaker 2: the hockey and all of a sudden, we're going to

703
00:35:00,718 --> 00:35:04,238
Speaker 2: the World Series. The thing about like, just like he said,

704
00:35:04,238 --> 00:35:08,398
Speaker 2: with Tito, you know, there's a character about his group,

705
00:35:08,438 --> 00:35:10,278
Speaker 2: the fact that they were not afraid, the fact that

706
00:35:10,318 --> 00:35:12,478
Speaker 2: he was going to be calm, the fact that you

707
00:35:12,478 --> 00:35:13,878
Speaker 2: had to be on your toes, and all these things

708
00:35:13,958 --> 00:35:16,358
Speaker 2: that I love when you look on the other side,

709
00:35:16,398 --> 00:35:18,838
Speaker 2: looking the other dugout talked to him before the game,

710
00:35:19,158 --> 00:35:21,078
Speaker 2: a little gamesmanship going out. He'd messed with you a

711
00:35:21,078 --> 00:35:25,118
Speaker 2: little bit, which I loved. But I have so much

712
00:35:25,158 --> 00:35:27,278
Speaker 2: respect for him and what he's done in the game,

713
00:35:27,318 --> 00:35:29,758
Speaker 2: and that you're right. His players loved him. His players

714
00:35:29,838 --> 00:35:32,598
Speaker 2: absolutely adore him, and I think that's because of the

715
00:35:32,638 --> 00:35:35,678
Speaker 2: communication factor and that he would build the relationships that

716
00:35:35,718 --> 00:35:39,118
Speaker 2: were necessary. We had that game in common. We had

717
00:35:39,158 --> 00:35:42,678
Speaker 2: the Wildcard Game also that nobody talks about, and he's

718
00:35:42,678 --> 00:35:44,998
Speaker 2: with the Indians when we beat them in the Wildcard

719
00:35:45,038 --> 00:35:47,918
Speaker 2: Game to play the Red Sox. Is that I don't know,

720
00:35:47,958 --> 00:35:50,398
Speaker 2: but it's that twelve eleven or whatever that year was.

721
00:35:50,918 --> 00:35:53,478
Speaker 2: That was a big game. That was where we won.

722
00:35:53,598 --> 00:35:55,718
Speaker 2: I think it was four to one. Alex Cott pitch great.

723
00:35:56,238 --> 00:36:01,358
Speaker 2: We then played the Red Sox and al Ds and lose.

724
00:36:01,638 --> 00:36:03,838
Speaker 2: But then eventually he gets to the big moment with

725
00:36:03,998 --> 00:36:06,598
Speaker 2: the World Series in Game seven. So he and I

726
00:36:06,598 --> 00:36:10,758
Speaker 2: have had some really big games against one another as managers,

727
00:36:10,798 --> 00:36:13,918
Speaker 2: and like I said, the respect is enormous that I

728
00:36:13,918 --> 00:36:17,918
Speaker 2: have for him. If he chooses to do this again,

729
00:36:17,958 --> 00:36:19,598
Speaker 2: I cannot be happy for him going out on his

730
00:36:19,598 --> 00:36:22,438
Speaker 2: own terms and thinks it's great. So yeah, he's a

731
00:36:22,478 --> 00:36:25,638
Speaker 2: special guy. We have a lot of common friends that

732
00:36:26,078 --> 00:36:27,878
Speaker 2: when I talk to them, they feel the same way.

733
00:36:28,238 --> 00:36:29,998
Speaker 2: So if he does choose to do this, I wish

734
00:36:30,038 --> 00:36:32,278
Speaker 2: I'm nothing but the best. But he's been outstanding. Joe.

735
00:36:32,358 --> 00:36:35,078
Speaker 1: I see a lot of similarities with you and Terry

736
00:36:35,078 --> 00:36:37,558
Speaker 1: and the way you guys manage your ball clubs and

737
00:36:37,638 --> 00:36:42,398
Speaker 1: connect with players. It starts with honesty. I mean I

738
00:36:42,438 --> 00:36:45,038
Speaker 1: always said that was the number one trade of Joe Tory.

739
00:36:45,998 --> 00:36:48,758
Speaker 1: Players knew that whatever he told them, there was no

740
00:36:48,838 --> 00:36:51,758
Speaker 1: agenda behind it. It was the honest truth. And sometimes

741
00:36:51,838 --> 00:36:54,758
Speaker 1: maybe it was not great news. You didn't want to

742
00:36:54,918 --> 00:36:57,038
Speaker 1: hear that you weren't playing or drop from the rotation,

743
00:36:57,158 --> 00:36:59,438
Speaker 1: but you knew it was coming from a genuine place.

744
00:36:59,558 --> 00:37:01,038
Speaker 3: Terry frank Cone is the same way.

745
00:37:01,838 --> 00:37:04,638
Speaker 1: I think he allows players to be themselves, encourages it

746
00:37:04,718 --> 00:37:07,478
Speaker 1: that the best version of yourself, the most productive version

747
00:37:07,478 --> 00:37:09,318
Speaker 1: as a baseball player, is going to be a guy

748
00:37:09,318 --> 00:37:11,918
Speaker 1: who's able to be himself and not fit into a

749
00:37:11,998 --> 00:37:14,998
Speaker 1: system doesn't have a lot of rules, and I know

750
00:37:15,038 --> 00:37:18,158
Speaker 1: you're big on that. Give players a freedom to really

751
00:37:18,198 --> 00:37:20,638
Speaker 1: express themselves and be themselves as long as they're putting

752
00:37:20,678 --> 00:37:21,798
Speaker 1: the work in no problem.

753
00:37:21,798 --> 00:37:22,878
Speaker 3: That's Terry Francona.

754
00:37:24,118 --> 00:37:26,438
Speaker 1: And probably the most famous story with Terry Francona, and

755
00:37:26,438 --> 00:37:30,318
Speaker 1: there's a million of those, is falling behind the Yankees

756
00:37:30,518 --> 00:37:35,358
Speaker 1: right three in the four Alcs and you know, it's

757
00:37:35,398 --> 00:37:38,518
Speaker 1: a wet night at Yankee Stadium and the Red Sox

758
00:37:38,558 --> 00:37:41,278
Speaker 1: decided not to take VP on the field. Kevin Malar says,

759
00:37:41,278 --> 00:37:43,678
Speaker 1: you know, we're sick of listening to the yankeeographies on

760
00:37:43,718 --> 00:37:45,878
Speaker 1: the scoreboard for an hour and a half while we're

761
00:37:45,918 --> 00:37:48,438
Speaker 1: working out in the field before the game. And that's

762
00:37:48,478 --> 00:37:50,478
Speaker 1: when it was Malar and a couple of other guys,

763
00:37:50,518 --> 00:37:53,158
Speaker 1: Johnny Damon decided let's take a shot at Jack Daniels

764
00:37:53,158 --> 00:37:55,158
Speaker 1: to get us ready for this game. And of course

765
00:37:55,198 --> 00:37:56,678
Speaker 1: they won the game, you'd have to do that the

766
00:37:56,718 --> 00:37:58,798
Speaker 1: next night, and so on and so forth. And it

767
00:37:58,878 --> 00:38:02,598
Speaker 1: was just that kind of that culture that Terry Francona

768
00:38:02,758 --> 00:38:05,758
Speaker 1: really always, no matter what his teams were, whether they

769
00:38:05,758 --> 00:38:08,398
Speaker 1: were World Series teams or not, just encourage guys to

770
00:38:08,438 --> 00:38:12,238
Speaker 1: be themselves. And I saw that with your clubs, and

771
00:38:12,318 --> 00:38:14,958
Speaker 1: I think it's and again it's not you don't want

772
00:38:14,958 --> 00:38:16,878
Speaker 1: to be known as quote unquote a player as a

773
00:38:16,878 --> 00:38:20,798
Speaker 1: manager because you're two las. Terry like you, he wasn't

774
00:38:20,838 --> 00:38:23,118
Speaker 1: beyond you know, having to drop a hammer on his

775
00:38:23,158 --> 00:38:25,358
Speaker 1: club with it just airing him out once in a while,

776
00:38:26,198 --> 00:38:27,798
Speaker 1: or having a bench a guy if he's not giving

777
00:38:27,798 --> 00:38:31,998
Speaker 1: you ninety feet. But I just think establishing that culture,

778
00:38:31,998 --> 00:38:37,038
Speaker 1: that atmosphere where players can be themselves. Boy, it's that's

779
00:38:37,078 --> 00:38:38,638
Speaker 1: what I think of Terry or Frank Cone when I

780
00:38:38,638 --> 00:38:40,318
Speaker 1: think about his years managing.

781
00:38:40,158 --> 00:38:45,558
Speaker 2: Right on, I think all that is pertinent. You're right philosophically.

782
00:38:45,558 --> 00:38:48,078
Speaker 2: I agree with everything you just said, and just to

783
00:38:48,078 --> 00:38:50,558
Speaker 2: boil it down, if I tell you the truth, you

784
00:38:50,638 --> 00:38:52,318
Speaker 2: might not like me for a week or ten days,

785
00:38:52,318 --> 00:38:53,878
Speaker 2: but if I lie to you, you're going to hate

786
00:38:53,918 --> 00:38:56,438
Speaker 2: me forever. And that's pretty much when I have to

787
00:38:56,438 --> 00:38:59,238
Speaker 2: have a tough conversation, I will think that in advance.

788
00:39:00,838 --> 00:39:02,078
Speaker 2: You know, I've been doing it for a while. I've

789
00:39:02,078 --> 00:39:05,798
Speaker 2: had some tough conversations since the mid eighty Seriously, in

790
00:39:06,278 --> 00:39:09,238
Speaker 2: Geootry Park, in the little office there, or the Cheenwak

791
00:39:09,318 --> 00:39:12,078
Speaker 2: used to sit at they're in instructional leagues that bring

792
00:39:12,118 --> 00:39:15,678
Speaker 2: guys in and we would go positives, negatives and then

793
00:39:16,038 --> 00:39:18,038
Speaker 2: read off to them what I perceived to be the

794
00:39:18,078 --> 00:39:20,038
Speaker 2: goals for this camp. And I wanted them to write

795
00:39:20,038 --> 00:39:22,118
Speaker 2: down what their goals are for this camp, bring it

796
00:39:22,158 --> 00:39:23,478
Speaker 2: back to me. Then at the end of the camp,

797
00:39:23,478 --> 00:39:26,838
Speaker 2: we would review all of this stuff. So a lot

798
00:39:26,838 --> 00:39:29,478
Speaker 2: of it came down to just being very frank with

799
00:39:29,518 --> 00:39:32,638
Speaker 2: all of these guys, and they love it. A real

800
00:39:32,678 --> 00:39:36,198
Speaker 2: professional loves frankness. They want to hear exactly what you're thinking.

801
00:39:36,758 --> 00:39:39,078
Speaker 2: And when you do that, when you walk out on

802
00:39:39,118 --> 00:39:41,758
Speaker 2: the field there and they look at you, there's not like,

803
00:39:41,758 --> 00:39:44,078
Speaker 2: what is he thinking? They know what I'm thinking. They

804
00:39:44,118 --> 00:39:45,798
Speaker 2: know exactly what I'm thinking. That's why I was really

805
00:39:45,798 --> 00:39:49,918
Speaker 2: big on these meetings, whether it was instructional leagues, spring trainings,

806
00:39:50,638 --> 00:39:52,598
Speaker 2: took it to the race, took it to the Cubs,

807
00:39:52,598 --> 00:39:56,678
Speaker 2: et cetera. Started that in nineteen eighty four, nineteen eighty five. Actually,

808
00:39:57,198 --> 00:40:00,358
Speaker 2: so that's important. I mean, I think if any manager,

809
00:40:00,358 --> 00:40:03,918
Speaker 2: whether it's in baseball or in any organization or busines

810
00:40:04,038 --> 00:40:07,118
Speaker 2: this group and actually I've had this conversation with some

811
00:40:07,438 --> 00:40:10,918
Speaker 2: in the in those positions. One piece of advice would be,

812
00:40:10,958 --> 00:40:14,918
Speaker 2: I would as much as you can have individual meetings

813
00:40:14,958 --> 00:40:18,358
Speaker 2: with your your lead bulls whoever you perceive these people

814
00:40:18,398 --> 00:40:21,238
Speaker 2: to be, or as many employees as you can, because

815
00:40:21,278 --> 00:40:25,838
Speaker 2: when you do that and you really create this transparency

816
00:40:25,878 --> 00:40:29,398
Speaker 2: where I know exactly what my boss the leader is thinking,

817
00:40:30,238 --> 00:40:35,518
Speaker 2: in gentlemen about me, it permits this more at ease

818
00:40:35,558 --> 00:40:37,718
Speaker 2: about my job, where I could walk and I could

819
00:40:37,718 --> 00:40:39,718
Speaker 2: see him or her and I'm not going to be like, well,

820
00:40:39,758 --> 00:40:43,318
Speaker 2: what are they thinking? Because what happens is we always

821
00:40:43,358 --> 00:40:45,918
Speaker 2: imagine the worst. You're always going to think the worst

822
00:40:45,918 --> 00:40:49,638
Speaker 2: about regarding regarding what does the group of the organization

823
00:40:49,758 --> 00:40:52,158
Speaker 2: or the leader think about me. And that's a bad

824
00:40:52,198 --> 00:40:54,838
Speaker 2: place to be. And that's where you're imagining things that

825
00:40:54,838 --> 00:40:57,838
Speaker 2: are not true, but you give them a certain level

826
00:40:57,878 --> 00:41:00,758
Speaker 2: of truth and power. So these are the reasons why

827
00:41:01,038 --> 00:41:03,478
Speaker 2: I've done it the way I've done it, And as

828
00:41:03,478 --> 00:41:05,718
Speaker 2: you discribe, I think it's exactly what Terry's done too.

829
00:41:06,158 --> 00:41:09,118
Speaker 1: Hey Joe again, that game seven in twenty sixteen, It

830
00:41:09,478 --> 00:41:13,598
Speaker 1: really is one of the greatest baseball games that any

831
00:41:13,638 --> 00:41:16,518
Speaker 1: of us have seen in really across baseball history. It's

832
00:41:16,518 --> 00:41:20,918
Speaker 1: so much strategy, so much back and forth. I wonder

833
00:41:20,958 --> 00:41:23,358
Speaker 1: if you ever had a chance to talk to Terry

834
00:41:23,558 --> 00:41:26,998
Speaker 1: after that game in the years since then about you know,

835
00:41:27,078 --> 00:41:31,918
Speaker 1: being part of, let's face it, baseball history from the

836
00:41:32,078 --> 00:41:33,238
Speaker 1: strategic standpoint.

837
00:41:33,358 --> 00:41:35,638
Speaker 3: I mean, it was an interesting game to run.

838
00:41:35,878 --> 00:41:38,838
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about the situation where Francona

839
00:41:38,918 --> 00:41:41,798
Speaker 1: did something I have never seen before or since, and

840
00:41:41,838 --> 00:41:44,198
Speaker 1: that's what he took an outfielder out of the game

841
00:41:44,278 --> 00:41:45,398
Speaker 1: in the middle of an inning.

842
00:41:46,038 --> 00:41:49,318
Speaker 3: It was the ninth inning. Jason Hayward stole second, advanced

843
00:41:49,358 --> 00:41:51,918
Speaker 3: to third on the throwing era. Now he's the winning

844
00:41:51,998 --> 00:41:56,678
Speaker 3: run at third base, and Terry Francona takes out Coco

845
00:41:56,838 --> 00:41:59,278
Speaker 3: Crisp to put a better arm in the outfield, which

846
00:41:59,318 --> 00:42:02,638
Speaker 3: was Michael Martinez. And as it turned out, Michael Martinez

847
00:42:02,718 --> 00:42:06,198
Speaker 3: is at the plate with two outs in the last

848
00:42:06,238 --> 00:42:09,158
Speaker 3: inning and the guy really had not batted much at

849
00:42:09,198 --> 00:42:14,558
Speaker 3: all for Cleveland. That was an interesting move by Terry Francona.

850
00:42:14,638 --> 00:42:18,238
Speaker 3: I mean, like you, he's not afraid to make an

851
00:42:18,278 --> 00:42:20,678
Speaker 3: outside the box move. There's no question about that.

852
00:42:20,798 --> 00:42:25,958
Speaker 1: But just wondering even about that call and on your end,

853
00:42:25,998 --> 00:42:28,758
Speaker 1: sending Jason Hayward in that spot. But if you ever

854
00:42:28,838 --> 00:42:31,158
Speaker 1: had a chance to talk to Terry about being part

855
00:42:31,198 --> 00:42:32,478
Speaker 1: of baseball history.

856
00:42:32,718 --> 00:42:36,558
Speaker 2: Have not, quite, frankly, have not. I don't know why not.

857
00:42:36,758 --> 00:42:39,318
Speaker 2: There's no reason why not, but we have not done that.

858
00:42:40,158 --> 00:42:42,718
Speaker 2: But getting back to that particular move, Coco Crisp had

859
00:42:42,758 --> 00:42:44,918
Speaker 2: a really bad arm. He had heard it years ago,

860
00:42:45,558 --> 00:42:47,878
Speaker 2: even in Oakland and Boston. He was he just did

861
00:42:47,958 --> 00:42:51,678
Speaker 2: not throw well. So it's understandable why he would make

862
00:42:51,718 --> 00:42:53,318
Speaker 2: that move. I mean, if the fly balls at the

863
00:42:53,318 --> 00:42:55,998
Speaker 2: cocoa in an area where he could have made a

864
00:42:56,038 --> 00:42:59,038
Speaker 2: throat of the plate and we're safe. You killed himself

865
00:42:59,078 --> 00:43:00,718
Speaker 2: after the game for not doing it if he had

866
00:43:00,758 --> 00:43:04,038
Speaker 2: thought about it. I e. Here comes hobby By there

867
00:43:04,038 --> 00:43:08,558
Speaker 2: as again Jason's on third pictures. Sweep's kind of a

868
00:43:08,558 --> 00:43:10,558
Speaker 2: sweep slider. He's going to chase right here. Even if

869
00:43:10,558 --> 00:43:13,638
Speaker 2: it's two strikes. The better opportunity would be to safe.

870
00:43:13,678 --> 00:43:16,678
Speaker 2: They squeeze, because part of that is that you don't

871
00:43:16,718 --> 00:43:18,438
Speaker 2: have to go after the pitch if you don't want to.

872
00:43:18,478 --> 00:43:20,198
Speaker 2: You could pull the back of it's the ball and

873
00:43:20,278 --> 00:43:22,758
Speaker 2: accept ball four. There's all kinds of things going on.

874
00:43:22,838 --> 00:43:25,038
Speaker 2: So these are the things you think of you prep

875
00:43:25,118 --> 00:43:27,038
Speaker 2: yourself for then you decide to do in the moment

876
00:43:27,038 --> 00:43:29,518
Speaker 2: when they When they work, my goodness, you're glorified. When

877
00:43:29,518 --> 00:43:32,278
Speaker 2: they don't, you're an idiot. So yeah, I'm listening. When

878
00:43:32,278 --> 00:43:34,038
Speaker 2: it came down to that night, didny, I'd much prefer

879
00:43:34,598 --> 00:43:37,758
Speaker 2: facing Martinez in the extra innings as opposed to Coco Crisp,

880
00:43:38,118 --> 00:43:41,198
Speaker 2: who is actually, you know, not a bad right handed hitter,

881
00:43:41,318 --> 00:43:43,758
Speaker 2: and so that it all worked out that way, But

882
00:43:43,838 --> 00:43:46,678
Speaker 2: you can't. You have one moment, You have one moment

883
00:43:46,758 --> 00:43:50,678
Speaker 2: in time to make that decision. It's revisionism. Is doesn't

884
00:43:50,718 --> 00:43:54,398
Speaker 2: work because when you're in a dugout and all these

885
00:43:54,438 --> 00:43:56,518
Speaker 2: things are swirling through your head and you've prepped yourself

886
00:43:56,638 --> 00:43:59,878
Speaker 2: for that, you make the decision. Some guys would never

887
00:43:59,918 --> 00:44:01,918
Speaker 2: make that decision because the thought never came to them,

888
00:44:01,998 --> 00:44:05,398
Speaker 2: quite frankly, and that's maybe the a'sually the bane of

889
00:44:05,558 --> 00:44:08,958
Speaker 2: having too much experience or too many thoughts or having

890
00:44:08,998 --> 00:44:11,638
Speaker 2: been any situations before. Then I was like, wow, I

891
00:44:11,638 --> 00:44:13,638
Speaker 2: need to do this right now, and then it doesn't

892
00:44:13,678 --> 00:44:15,998
Speaker 2: play out that way, and then why did you do it?

893
00:44:16,038 --> 00:44:20,158
Speaker 2: So No, I have not had that conversation with Tito

894
00:44:20,598 --> 00:44:23,798
Speaker 2: probably well at some point, but again, quite frankly, the

895
00:44:23,878 --> 00:44:26,198
Speaker 2: fact that Martinez was up there really was a lot

896
00:44:26,238 --> 00:44:26,958
Speaker 2: better than Coco.

897
00:44:27,438 --> 00:44:29,558
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's one of my favorite points in the game

898
00:44:29,598 --> 00:44:31,398
Speaker 1: that had just a million of them, where you can

899
00:44:31,438 --> 00:44:33,838
Speaker 1: go back and look at all the decisions that were

900
00:44:33,878 --> 00:44:37,518
Speaker 1: made or moren't made, And for Tito to take out

901
00:44:37,518 --> 00:44:40,478
Speaker 1: his outfielder and then for you to put a safety

902
00:44:40,518 --> 00:44:44,838
Speaker 1: squeeze on with two strikes on the batter is It's

903
00:44:44,878 --> 00:44:48,078
Speaker 1: just it speaks to these guys as managers. Joe Madden,

904
00:44:48,158 --> 00:44:52,118
Speaker 1: Terry Francona a lot in common. Terry Francona finishing a

905
00:44:52,238 --> 00:44:55,198
Speaker 1: tremendous career more than three thousand and two thousand games

906
00:44:55,198 --> 00:44:59,198
Speaker 1: managing the big leagues. I'm not sure what he's going

907
00:44:59,238 --> 00:45:02,398
Speaker 1: to do next, but we wish him all the best. Joe,

908
00:45:02,438 --> 00:45:04,238
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and we'll up

909
00:45:04,318 --> 00:45:07,438
Speaker 1: this last week of the regular season edition of the

910
00:45:07,438 --> 00:45:19,998
Speaker 1: Book of Joe right after this, all right, Joe's the

911
00:45:20,238 --> 00:45:21,798
Speaker 1: last week of the regular season.

912
00:45:21,798 --> 00:45:23,198
Speaker 3: The air is getting a little cooler.

913
00:45:25,358 --> 00:45:27,158
Speaker 1: I have to ask you this, do you change what

914
00:45:27,238 --> 00:45:29,798
Speaker 1: you're driving based on the time of year. You've got

915
00:45:29,838 --> 00:45:32,758
Speaker 1: some vehicle choices to make, and I'm not sure whether

916
00:45:32,838 --> 00:45:35,158
Speaker 1: this time of year presents better for one of your

917
00:45:35,238 --> 00:45:36,158
Speaker 1: vehicles than another.

918
00:45:36,718 --> 00:45:40,118
Speaker 2: God, it's such a great question. Right now, I'm only

919
00:45:40,158 --> 00:45:41,918
Speaker 2: being limited by the fact that I got to get

920
00:45:41,918 --> 00:45:45,358
Speaker 2: a couple of cars registered in Pennsylvania. I'm now a

921
00:45:45,398 --> 00:45:48,678
Speaker 2: Pennsylvania resident, and I brought out the bell Air the

922
00:45:48,758 --> 00:45:52,598
Speaker 2: other day color Bella and the three P fifty with

923
00:45:52,638 --> 00:45:55,118
Speaker 2: fuel injection. The guy that put it together took seven

924
00:45:55,198 --> 00:45:57,998
Speaker 2: years to build this car. Oh my god, it runs,

925
00:45:58,078 --> 00:46:00,398
Speaker 2: It just runs beautifully. So I drove that. I'm waiting

926
00:46:00,398 --> 00:46:03,278
Speaker 2: on the convertible before the weather. I got the seventy

927
00:46:03,318 --> 00:46:07,118
Speaker 2: two Chevelle Beautiful like I call it Candy Apple Blue.

928
00:46:07,198 --> 00:46:09,438
Speaker 2: Bought it in Chicago when I was still with the

929
00:46:09,518 --> 00:46:13,238
Speaker 2: Rays three fifty, also with the six ft trimic transmission.

930
00:46:13,438 --> 00:46:16,238
Speaker 2: Again feel injected, beautiful. That's what I want to drive

931
00:46:16,318 --> 00:46:16,718
Speaker 2: right now.

932
00:46:16,838 --> 00:46:19,158
Speaker 1: Yeah, neither neither one of those is the mutter, by

933
00:46:19,198 --> 00:46:20,918
Speaker 1: the way, And if you've been on the East coast

934
00:46:20,958 --> 00:46:24,118
Speaker 1: the last three days, here right, No, you're not taking

935
00:46:24,158 --> 00:46:25,198
Speaker 1: out those babies.

936
00:46:24,918 --> 00:46:27,558
Speaker 2: No, they're they're in the firehouse right now. They're getting

937
00:46:27,558 --> 00:46:30,598
Speaker 2: they're just getting some rest. And my van, like my

938
00:46:30,718 --> 00:46:34,518
Speaker 2: van is the one the van. It's getting cleaned up.

939
00:46:34,558 --> 00:46:37,038
Speaker 2: There's a couple of issues with it yet, but the

940
00:46:37,118 --> 00:46:39,278
Speaker 2: van is the one. The van is like, really what

941
00:46:39,318 --> 00:46:42,678
Speaker 2: I wanted to beat around in all over northeastern Pennsylvania.

942
00:46:42,718 --> 00:46:46,198
Speaker 2: It's a seventy six Dodge Van Tradesman two hundred, you know,

943
00:46:46,438 --> 00:46:49,278
Speaker 2: pretty much a shag and wagon. It's got the great

944
00:46:49,638 --> 00:46:53,918
Speaker 2: shag in side, tremendous sound system, wonderful air conditioning, new

945
00:46:53,998 --> 00:46:58,558
Speaker 2: leather seats that are avocado green with burnt orange, got

946
00:46:58,558 --> 00:47:02,758
Speaker 2: a TV in the back. Again. I'm so looking forward

947
00:47:02,798 --> 00:47:04,798
Speaker 2: to driving this. It's got a three sixty in it

948
00:47:04,798 --> 00:47:07,478
Speaker 2: and now with the four eight stroker Kid, it's really

949
00:47:07,478 --> 00:47:10,158
Speaker 2: it's a little bit loud, but it's really cool. That's

950
00:47:10,398 --> 00:47:12,198
Speaker 2: what I want to do because once it gets once

951
00:47:12,238 --> 00:47:14,918
Speaker 2: it snows and bad up there, none of these play.

952
00:47:15,038 --> 00:47:16,918
Speaker 2: I won't take any of these things out unless the

953
00:47:17,358 --> 00:47:20,638
Speaker 2: roads are dry and it's not going to freeze. So yeah,

954
00:47:20,718 --> 00:47:22,038
Speaker 2: right now, I want to get the Chevelle out there.

955
00:47:22,078 --> 00:47:23,438
Speaker 2: I want to convert to I went the top down

956
00:47:23,478 --> 00:47:26,958
Speaker 2: last point. These set fifty nine El Caminos on its way,

957
00:47:27,478 --> 00:47:29,638
Speaker 2: and this thing is a beauty. Man. I get more

958
00:47:30,038 --> 00:47:33,118
Speaker 2: stops on the street when I'm driving the fifty nine

959
00:47:33,198 --> 00:47:35,558
Speaker 2: El Camino the first year they made them. Got that

960
00:47:35,598 --> 00:47:38,078
Speaker 2: real nautical wood in the back of the bed, a

961
00:47:38,078 --> 00:47:41,558
Speaker 2: beautiful red interior, killer sound system. I know. I could

962
00:47:41,598 --> 00:47:43,358
Speaker 2: go on and on, but that is the one I

963
00:47:43,358 --> 00:47:45,238
Speaker 2: want to get behind the wheel as soon as I

964
00:47:45,278 --> 00:47:45,958
Speaker 2: get back to PA.

965
00:47:46,598 --> 00:47:49,038
Speaker 1: That is a beautiful car. It is the shagg And Wagon,

966
00:47:49,078 --> 00:47:51,878
Speaker 1: by the way, is also a beautiful car. What is

967
00:47:52,078 --> 00:47:54,478
Speaker 1: the name of the color? That's like a bron a

968
00:47:54,478 --> 00:47:57,358
Speaker 1: desert bronze or something. What is the name of that color.

969
00:47:57,598 --> 00:47:59,358
Speaker 2: I don't know the exactly. You're right, it's a it's

970
00:47:59,398 --> 00:48:01,998
Speaker 2: a desert landscape on it. I bought it through Craigslist

971
00:48:02,398 --> 00:48:05,438
Speaker 2: from some dude outside of Pittsburgh at least ten years ago.

972
00:48:05,438 --> 00:48:08,398
Speaker 2: I don't know the exact date. I was on every list.

973
00:48:08,438 --> 00:48:11,278
Speaker 2: I wanted a seventy six dodge Man because Doug s

974
00:48:11,318 --> 00:48:13,718
Speaker 2: Levette used to take me to cal State Fullerton in

975
00:48:13,798 --> 00:48:17,198
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy six for my first Angel spring training. We

976
00:48:17,278 --> 00:48:19,758
Speaker 2: used to work out at cal State Fullerton. He picked

977
00:48:19,798 --> 00:48:22,678
Speaker 2: me up at an Ted's house and Uncle Rick's on

978
00:48:22,798 --> 00:48:25,518
Speaker 2: Gardener Street in Elder out of Park in Long Beach.

979
00:48:25,518 --> 00:48:28,078
Speaker 2: He picked me up. We drive down to Long Beach State.

980
00:48:28,118 --> 00:48:30,598
Speaker 2: We would work I mean, excuse me to cal State Fullerton.

981
00:48:30,878 --> 00:48:32,558
Speaker 2: We'd work out, and he'd drive me back. And he

982
00:48:32,598 --> 00:48:35,638
Speaker 2: had a seventy six black Dodge Van, And for years

983
00:48:35,678 --> 00:48:40,198
Speaker 2: I wanted one of those, so I researched, research, research. Finally,

984
00:48:40,198 --> 00:48:43,238
Speaker 2: I think I paid about nine or ten thousand bucks

985
00:48:43,238 --> 00:48:45,398
Speaker 2: for this way. Put way more into it than that.

986
00:48:45,998 --> 00:48:49,038
Speaker 2: But believe me, it runs great when it's right on.

987
00:48:49,158 --> 00:48:52,358
Speaker 2: And I'll tell you the thing about these, it's the jeep.

988
00:48:52,758 --> 00:48:54,598
Speaker 2: It really handles like a jeep in a parking lot.

989
00:48:54,758 --> 00:48:57,478
Speaker 2: The wheelbase is so far forward and back that it

990
00:48:57,558 --> 00:49:00,598
Speaker 2: really is maneuverable. So that's why I got it. And

991
00:49:00,638 --> 00:49:04,598
Speaker 2: it's that desert landscape kind of an orange like you're

992
00:49:04,598 --> 00:49:08,918
Speaker 2: saying brown, like almost like you're in the desert between Arizona,

993
00:49:08,998 --> 00:49:12,358
Speaker 2: New Mexico. It's gorgeous and I can't wait to wait.

994
00:49:12,478 --> 00:49:14,398
Speaker 2: I cannot wait to get back behind the wheel.

995
00:49:14,438 --> 00:49:17,398
Speaker 1: On that one key question, Joe doesn't have an eight

996
00:49:17,558 --> 00:49:18,358
Speaker 1: track player?

997
00:49:18,798 --> 00:49:20,958
Speaker 2: No, I don't need it anymore because I got Bluetooth.

998
00:49:21,078 --> 00:49:24,078
Speaker 2: I mean I got Bluetooth, bunch of bluetooth. It it's like,

999
00:49:24,198 --> 00:49:26,558
Speaker 2: you know, you just bring your phone in there and

1000
00:49:26,598 --> 00:49:28,998
Speaker 2: also and just took it up. Man, you got everything

1001
00:49:29,038 --> 00:49:31,598
Speaker 2: at your disposal. And this sound is incredible. Oh full

1002
00:49:31,638 --> 00:49:32,678
Speaker 2: cow speaker.

1003
00:49:32,318 --> 00:49:35,358
Speaker 3: Is beautiful, sounds lovely. Hey, it does sound love it.

1004
00:49:35,478 --> 00:49:37,518
Speaker 3: This is this is it for the regular season.

1005
00:49:37,558 --> 00:49:39,798
Speaker 1: We are certainly going to be back next week diving

1006
00:49:39,798 --> 00:49:41,438
Speaker 1: into the postseason matchups.

1007
00:49:41,598 --> 00:49:41,838
Speaker 2: Cool.

1008
00:49:42,038 --> 00:49:46,038
Speaker 1: A few spots still left to decide here, So anything

1009
00:49:46,158 --> 00:49:48,598
Speaker 1: special this week Joe to take us out in our

1010
00:49:48,678 --> 00:49:51,758
Speaker 1: final regular season edition of the Book of Joe.

1011
00:49:51,998 --> 00:49:54,558
Speaker 2: You know what, it's incredible because for the folks that

1012
00:49:54,598 --> 00:49:57,678
Speaker 2: don't know this, sometimes, like days like this when we

1013
00:49:57,678 --> 00:50:00,478
Speaker 2: don't have a guest, I really don't know where Tommy's

1014
00:50:00,518 --> 00:50:02,398
Speaker 2: going to go with the topics, and I just react

1015
00:50:02,438 --> 00:50:03,518
Speaker 2: to the next tempraneously.

1016
00:50:03,558 --> 00:50:04,758
Speaker 3: I do like to surprise you.

1017
00:50:05,158 --> 00:50:07,118
Speaker 2: And I love it. I actually love it, and I

1018
00:50:07,238 --> 00:50:07,718
Speaker 2: like that I.

1019
00:50:07,678 --> 00:50:10,278
Speaker 3: Can go anywhere and you cover it so well.

1020
00:50:10,358 --> 00:50:13,278
Speaker 2: But here's the thing. So I pick up my quote

1021
00:50:13,318 --> 00:50:16,078
Speaker 2: of the day without knowing the topics of the day, right,

1022
00:50:16,118 --> 00:50:19,398
Speaker 2: and this cannot be more germane and I love it.

1023
00:50:19,398 --> 00:50:22,478
Speaker 2: And it comes from Herman Melville, who you know, Moby Dick,

1024
00:50:22,518 --> 00:50:26,838
Speaker 2: and I read I read Wisdom of the Ages by

1025
00:50:27,358 --> 00:50:29,998
Speaker 2: Meane dire years ago. It's like sixty of his but

1026
00:50:30,158 --> 00:50:32,678
Speaker 2: he perceives to be some of the most critical passages

1027
00:50:32,718 --> 00:50:35,478
Speaker 2: in history from the most influential people. And he has

1028
00:50:35,518 --> 00:50:38,118
Speaker 2: a passage from Melville with Moby Dick and it's about

1029
00:50:38,118 --> 00:50:40,118
Speaker 2: your insular Tahiti where you need to escape to when

1030
00:50:40,118 --> 00:50:42,758
Speaker 2: he gets crazy. But this also comes from Melbolle, and

1031
00:50:42,878 --> 00:50:44,758
Speaker 2: really I love it. And I'm going too far here,

1032
00:50:44,798 --> 00:50:48,478
Speaker 2: but it is better to fail in originality than to

1033
00:50:48,598 --> 00:50:52,078
Speaker 2: succeed in imitation. Wow. When I read that that, I

1034
00:50:52,118 --> 00:50:55,558
Speaker 2: love that. It's so true and it cannot be more germane.

1035
00:50:55,558 --> 00:50:57,518
Speaker 2: Like I said, to what's going on in the world today.

1036
00:50:58,278 --> 00:51:02,318
Speaker 2: Everybody wants to imitate everybody else. It's just the real

1037
00:51:03,038 --> 00:51:06,958
Speaker 2: imaginative or original person sometimes has a hard time because

1038
00:51:06,958 --> 00:51:09,318
Speaker 2: it does not really morph into the group as easily

1039
00:51:09,398 --> 00:51:12,438
Speaker 2: in a sense. So I love that fail and originality

1040
00:51:12,438 --> 00:51:15,678
Speaker 2: as opposed to succeed in imitation. Wow, that's what I

1041
00:51:15,718 --> 00:51:16,198
Speaker 2: love to see.

1042
00:51:16,198 --> 00:51:19,558
Speaker 3: In baseball, that is so well said Harmon Melville.

1043
00:51:19,558 --> 00:51:21,398
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you ever covered baseball, but that

1044
00:51:21,518 --> 00:51:23,598
Speaker 1: was some writer who hit the nail on the head,

1045
00:51:23,638 --> 00:51:24,198
Speaker 1: because to.

1046
00:51:24,118 --> 00:51:25,758
Speaker 2: Me, maybe a double day had everybody.

1047
00:51:26,558 --> 00:51:30,998
Speaker 1: It's those who want to kind of copy others and

1048
00:51:31,718 --> 00:51:34,758
Speaker 1: join the quote unquote wisdom of the crowd. That's the

1049
00:51:34,838 --> 00:51:37,718
Speaker 1: definition of being average. And who wants to be average?

1050
00:51:37,798 --> 00:51:38,438
Speaker 1: Be yourself.

1051
00:51:38,638 --> 00:51:40,798
Speaker 2: But look at your rear works as a writer, man,

1052
00:51:40,838 --> 00:51:44,278
Speaker 2: you're so original. You're so able to with your research

1053
00:51:44,318 --> 00:51:48,158
Speaker 2: and your own vast resource of knowledge in your in

1054
00:51:48,158 --> 00:51:50,318
Speaker 2: your own personal history, You're able to weave things together

1055
00:51:50,878 --> 00:51:53,198
Speaker 2: so well. And that's all original. That's not you. You.

1056
00:51:53,198 --> 00:51:55,718
Speaker 2: You don't imitate anybody, and that's why people love you

1057
00:51:55,758 --> 00:51:56,558
Speaker 2: writing so much.

1058
00:51:56,838 --> 00:51:59,918
Speaker 3: Find your own inner Tahiti. Also, I love that.

1059
00:51:59,918 --> 00:52:02,638
Speaker 2: That's right. That's right, baby, that's right, that's right. Check

1060
00:52:02,678 --> 00:52:02,878
Speaker 2: it out.

1061
00:52:03,158 --> 00:52:04,838
Speaker 3: We'll see it next week week on the Book of Joe.

1062
00:52:04,838 --> 00:52:05,958
Speaker 2: All right, brother, Thank you man.

1063
00:52:07,518 --> 00:52:10,758
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1064
00:52:10,998 --> 00:52:15,958
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1065
00:52:16,078 --> 00:52:17,878
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.