Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2: I have known Peter Navarro for decades. He's a pinata
Speaker 2: for so many in America. I want to reaffirm who
Speaker 2: doctor Navarro is. In nineteen ninety four, a bombshell of
Speaker 2: a book came out of University of California, Irvine. It
Speaker 2: was called The Coming China Wars, and Peter Navarro Agree
Speaker 2: or Disagree invented a franchise and conversation point on America
Speaker 2: and China. A guy up in New York, Donald Trump
Speaker 2: citizen looked at mister Navarro and said, hey, I can
Speaker 2: agree with that. And of course Peter Navarro advises our
Speaker 2: second term President of the United States as senior counselor
Speaker 2: to the President. Doctor Navarro, thank you so much for
Speaker 2: joining Bloomberg today. I want to get right to it, Peter.
Speaker 2: When you were at Irvine, you lectured on McKinley's capitulation
Speaker 2: on tariffs. McKinley was the arch Trump like protectionist of
Speaker 2: the nineteenth century, and he did the Buffalo pivot where
Speaker 2: he said, we've got to get more open. Are we
Speaker 2: in the process now of a modern Buffalo pivot?
Speaker 3: Tom?
Speaker 1: First of all, I just want to let the Bloomberg
Speaker 1: audience know how much I admire you. For years I've
Speaker 1: I just love what you do.
Speaker 3: So let me get that out of the way.
Speaker 1: McKinley, Henry Clay, Abraham Lincoln, Alexander Hamilton. These are like
Speaker 1: the four people on the Mount Rushmore of American tariffs.
Speaker 1: And we are not in any pivot away from that.
Speaker 1: We are fully embracing a structural shift engineered by Donald
Speaker 1: Trump in the entire international global trading system in a
Speaker 1: way which will make that system better and more prosperous.
Speaker 3: The problem we've had tom is under the rules, the
Speaker 3: very rules of the.
Speaker 1: World Trade Organization, specifically the most Favored Nation rule, every
Speaker 1: other nation in the world has had a license to
Speaker 1: cheat us through higher tariffs, higher non tariff bearers, and
Speaker 1: the costs, particularly after NAFTA and China joined the World
Speaker 1: Trade Organization in two thousand and one, has been in
Speaker 1: the one hundred thousands of factories and the millions of jobs.
Speaker 3: And we are reversing that.
Speaker 1: And you can see fifty thousand on the now, which
Speaker 1: I predicted in April.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna guification with Trump, either you.
Speaker 2: Or Kevin Hasset. I'm gonna give credit for that, Peter Navarre,
Speaker 2: We're gonna go with you on the sequence here. You
Speaker 2: mentioned the follow on from NAFTA. I spoke to our
Speaker 2: Josh Wingrove this morning and he made really clear what
Speaker 2: we need to know is a president actually thinking about
Speaker 2: moving away from our trade agreements with Mexico in Canada.
Speaker 2: Have you ever heard the president say I want out
Speaker 2: of NAFTA and everything that followed it.
Speaker 1: Tom, I'm one of three people, Stephen Miller Dan Scavino
Speaker 1: being the other two who was with the president from
Speaker 1: the twenty sixteen campaign through all four years of the
Speaker 1: first term. And the reason why that happened, among other things,
Speaker 1: is I never get ahead of the president. I can
Speaker 1: tell you this that USMCA has some significant flaws in it,
Speaker 1: and it's going to be reevaluated in July. The Great
Speaker 1: Jamison Greer, or US Trade Representative will be taking the
Speaker 1: lean on that. But nothing ever happens in the White
Speaker 1: House without the Commander in chief, particularly on trade. So
Speaker 1: as the Boss says, let's see what happens. But we're
Speaker 1: in a situation. One of the things you know, I'm
Speaker 1: the senior Counselor of Trade Manufacturing and one of One
Speaker 1: of the things that's really troubling right now, it should
Speaker 1: be troubling to the variant people, is that Mexico UH
Speaker 1: and and to extend Canada are basically being used by
Speaker 1: staging areas for countries like China, some of the European countries,
Speaker 1: the Asian countries, Jupean Korea, They come into into Mexico
Speaker 1: and they leverage NAFTA, UH and now US m c
Speaker 1: A to get into our markets in a way which
Speaker 1: essentially is terriff avoidance at best and tariff of evasion at worst.
Speaker 3: Could have to deal with that.
Speaker 2: Tom accrastination and worldwide. Peter Navarro with us with the
Speaker 2: Trump administration our Paul Sweeney with doctor Navarro.
Speaker 4: Mister Navarro, I guess last night we saw in the
Speaker 4: House of Representatives they voted to end some of President's
Speaker 4: tariff agenda against Canada.
Speaker 3: Did they overstep their bounds?
Speaker 4: What is the response of the administration?
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's highly ironic, Paul, that the Democrat
Speaker 1: Party is opposing tariffs on behalf of working class Americans
Speaker 1: when it was the Democrat Party, which is supposed to
Speaker 1: be the party of the working class. They simply because
Speaker 1: they hate Donald Trump, now they're anti tariff. I think
Speaker 1: the bigger story is the shame on the three Republicans
Speaker 1: who defected. Although Thomas Massey I don't consider him of
Speaker 1: the nice anymore.
Speaker 3: I'm being nice.
Speaker 1: What I'm just telling them like it is. It's like Nancy,
Speaker 1: hang on, let me give a compliment to the Democrats.
Speaker 3: The Democrats hold ranks and we don't, and we got
Speaker 3: to stop.
Speaker 1: Not holding ranks, sir, because it's very harmful to the
Speaker 1: party and to this country when we have that kind
Speaker 1: of thing going on.
Speaker 2: Okay, Peter Well said, but let's give two examples right now.
Speaker 2: Tom Barrett, who's the congressman from Lancing, Michigan. He's got
Speaker 2: two GM factories up here, his Republican working class constituents
Speaker 2: who President Trump stole from the Democrats. Tom Barrett is
Speaker 2: going to fight for his life in that congressional district
Speaker 2: in Lancing, Michigan. What do you need to do to
Speaker 2: get Tom Barrett re elected?
Speaker 1: Well, okay, so that's a bigger conversation.
Speaker 3: I can tell you this.
Speaker 1: The stakes have never been higher in a mid term
Speaker 1: congressional election. If we lose the House in twenty twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: we will see a repeat of the impeachment circus craziness
Speaker 1: that we saw beginning in twenty eighteen. It really was
Speaker 1: tremendously harmful. The Democrats they hate Trump more than they
Speaker 1: love this country, is Corey Lewandowski once said, and our
Speaker 1: strategy now, Look, they're coming at us on affordability number one.
Speaker 3: We are turning that around as we speak.
Speaker 1: We're taking a micro approach to the macro problem inflation.
Speaker 1: We're taking it cow by cow, fish by fish, gallon
Speaker 1: by gallon. And nothing is more important to the President
Speaker 1: than strong growth in a deflationary environment. Following the four
Speaker 1: pillars of trump Nomics tax cuts, we got strategic energy dominance,
Speaker 1: we got deregulation, and of course fair trade. So we're
Speaker 1: gonna first of all, address the affordability crisis head on.
Speaker 1: We're making great progress on that. The border issue remains troublesome.
Speaker 1: I've got a peace out in a rival network thing
Speaker 1: today that does the body count when you let millions
Speaker 1: of illegal aliens in to this country. I mean, we
Speaker 1: lost two Americans in Minneapolis because of what was going
Speaker 1: on there, But my calculations, tens of thousands of Americans
Speaker 1: are going to be either murdered burgled, raped, or assaulted
Speaker 1: by the illegal aliens unless we deport them.
Speaker 3: So that's going to be and that bound zero.
Speaker 4: You know, one of the things. We saw very strong
Speaker 4: jobs report yesterday, but a lot of economs will say,
Speaker 4: this is an economy that is kind of slow hiring
Speaker 4: or no hiring, but slow or no cuts in jobs.
Speaker 4: It's just kind of hanging out there. If you want
Speaker 4: this economy to grow, many economers would argue, you need
Speaker 4: a larger workforce. Does that suggest the administration may rethink
Speaker 4: their immigration policy? Hey?
Speaker 1: Hey, god, we had one hundred and seventy thousand private
Speaker 1: sector jobs created last month. One hundred and seventy thousand.
Speaker 1: And by the way, Paul, the best answer to your
Speaker 1: question is increase the labor force participation. Oh, it went
Speaker 1: up yesterday in the report, even as the unemployment rate
Speaker 1: went down. How many times do you see that we're
Speaker 1: looking at five percent GDP growth and we're looking at earnings,
Speaker 1: which you're off the charts, and back in April April seventh,
Speaker 1: to be exact, when the futures for the Dow were
Speaker 1: thirty eight thousand, My friend, thirty eight thousand on reciprocal
Speaker 1: Titanic I said fifty thousand on the.
Speaker 2: Dot turned to that's all look computer Novar.
Speaker 1: His well, Kevin wrote a book like years ago. He
Speaker 1: never said fifty thousand on the Dow this year. Just
Speaker 1: to be clear, Peter.
Speaker 2: Navarro with us here nationwide and of course some miservin
Speaker 2: California as well. Peter, you mentioned the midterm elections. Here's
Speaker 2: the reality for the president right now. You go out
Speaker 2: I eight across Illinois, you run into the Big River
Speaker 2: and there's Davenport, Iowa. The Republican in the first congressional
Speaker 2: district won that district by six votes last time around.
Speaker 2: They didn't cross the aisle yesterday to vote with the Democrats.
Speaker 2: But they've had it with the Navarro Trump trade. What
Speaker 2: do you need to amend to get Republicans re elected
Speaker 2: in November?
Speaker 3: I just so disagree with that.
Speaker 1: Iowa loves Donald Trump, and by the way, farmers love
Speaker 1: Donald Trump.
Speaker 3: Farmers above all.
Speaker 1: Understand the necessity for tariffs. And every time there's been
Speaker 1: retaliation by China or the European, by the Canadians, guests
Speaker 1: who's had the farmers back. I've personally been involved with
Speaker 1: the Great Brook rawlings over at the Department of agriculture
Speaker 1: and making sure that farmers are made whole and can't
Speaker 1: be used as bargaining chips and pawns in a bigger game.
Speaker 1: So I you know, Iowa is Trump country and just
Speaker 1: it's like you're making assertions that I just I mean,
Speaker 1: if you start with an assertion that's wrong, then everything
Speaker 1: that else that follows is.
Speaker 3: Peter, I want to get this talking about.
Speaker 2: This is too important, and Paul wants to talk about
Speaker 2: the legal background as well. Peter Navarro, we had a
Speaker 2: two to three percent terraf regime for whatever reasons, and
Speaker 2: you were providing leadership on this. We had Liberation Day
Speaker 2: in the Rose Garden and we went up, up and away,
Speaker 2: and Toby n Angle at the Ft has brilliantly shown
Speaker 2: that we've pulled back our blended terriff freight right now,
Speaker 2: I'm guessing to ten to eleven percent. Where is Peter
Speaker 2: Navarro's optimum blended terriff rate if it's not the two
Speaker 2: to three percent that President Biden and others had before you.
Speaker 1: Great question, and the way I like to think about
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 3: The trade deficit. The trade deficit.
Speaker 1: When it's chronic like it has been, and large like
Speaker 1: it has been is toxic to the future of this country.
Speaker 1: First of all, a big trade deficit that's chronic, that's
Speaker 1: opposed to occasional, is a proxy for all the factories
Speaker 1: and jobs and supply chains that go offshore. When that happens,
Speaker 1: that not only hurts us economically, it's hurts us from
Speaker 1: a national security point of view, as the pandemic underscored.
Speaker 3: So there is that.
Speaker 1: Secondly, when you run a chronic trade deficit, you're basically
Speaker 1: shipping your wealth offshore. Done that by the last calculation,
Speaker 1: I made something like fifteen trillion dollars of our property.
Speaker 2: But we're going to s Peter.
Speaker 1: Bottom line, Tom, is when the trade deaficy gets to zero.
Speaker 3: Then you've got the run that thing.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, but by the way, by the way, the
Speaker 1: goal here is simply fair trade.
Speaker 3: And what we're doing, what.
Speaker 1: The President is doing with Jamieson Greeer, Scott Bessen, Howard
Speaker 1: Lugnik are doing is working with our allies and countries
Speaker 1: around the world to get them to lower their tariffs
Speaker 1: and trade bearers. And who in bloomberg Land could disagree
Speaker 1: with that.
Speaker 3: As Peter and disagree with the results.
Speaker 2: Tom, I got to get this, say because Sweeney's like
Speaker 2: all Supreme Court right now. Peter Nevaua didn't answer my question.
Speaker 2: We came up, we had liberations that we did. No,
Speaker 2: you did not.
Speaker 1: We said your question was what will SAT five? Peter
Speaker 1: Navar and I say, when.
Speaker 2: The trailer, what is the zeroimum? What is the optimum
Speaker 2: blended terrifright? James Diamond wants to know that. Brian moynan
Speaker 2: wants to know that. Solomon over at Golden Sax wants
Speaker 2: to know that. And the people in the first Congressional
Speaker 2: District of Iowa where are we heading is these exemptions
Speaker 2: come in? Do you see a seven percent optimal terrifreight?
Speaker 2: Four percent? Do we capitulate and go right back to
Speaker 2: two to three percent?
Speaker 1: So here's a Kevin Spacey aside here, Jamie Diamond, lower.
Speaker 3: Your fringing credit card interest rates.
Speaker 1: You are a criminal away you charge the American people
Speaker 1: at twenty two, twenty five and thirty percent, and the
Speaker 1: president wants you to lower that.
Speaker 3: So until Jamie, until you do.
Speaker 1: That, please refrain from commenting on other public policies. Okay,
Speaker 1: Paul got that off my check now and answer respect
Speaker 1: to your question.
Speaker 3: Please, the way we think about it.
Speaker 1: This is important is that every country that we trade
Speaker 1: with is like figure prints, right, they're unique, which is
Speaker 1: to say they cheat us in their own way. It's
Speaker 1: like some countries like India have had the highest tariffs,
Speaker 1: some countries like Japan have had the highest non tariff barriers.
Speaker 1: Some countries like China have all of that stuff going on.
Speaker 1: So when you ask me what the what the appropriate
Speaker 1: tariff would be, it's it's bespoke.
Speaker 3: It's like what President Trump does.
Speaker 1: He goes country by country by country and he sets
Speaker 1: the tariffs according to how badly they're cheating us. So
Speaker 1: there's no there's no blended tariff concept here. It's like
Speaker 1: a country specifically.
Speaker 2: Thank you for that. Let's get Paul Sweeney in here.
Speaker 3: He just real quickly.
Speaker 4: There's some of President Trump's tariff policies in front of
Speaker 4: the Supreme Court. To the extent the Supreme Court rules
Speaker 4: against the administration, what will be its response, Well, first.
Speaker 3: Of all, let's talk about the law and the use
Speaker 3: of i EPAH.
Speaker 1: If the Supreme Court wants to rule in favor of
Speaker 1: President Trump, the law is clearly on the Supreme Court side, and.
Speaker 3: You have is a teriff attacks no it's.
Speaker 1: A tariff on foreigners, and is a tariff a form
Speaker 1: of restriction on imports. Of course, it is just like
Speaker 1: quotas and other things UH and embargoes. So those are
Speaker 1: the two points of law which this case is about.
Speaker 1: And if the Supreme Court wants to rule in President's favor,
Speaker 1: clearly the law is on their side. With respect to
Speaker 1: Plan B, of course we have a Plan B, but
Speaker 1: this is not the place for me to talk about it.
Speaker 1: If if the decision comes out next Friday, which would
Speaker 1: be the next time the Supreme Court is going to
Speaker 1: be releasing decisions, then will the President will speak for
Speaker 1: on what's going to happen, and then folks like me
Speaker 1: will come in behind them and explain the details.
Speaker 2: Peter, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you
Speaker 2: for commenting on the realities for the first Congressional District
Speaker 2: of Iowa. I believe it's the eighth congressional district of
Speaker 2: Michigan as well. And on the world of trade. Peter Navarro,
Speaker 2: Senior Counselor to the President for Trade and Manufacturing for
Speaker 2: the President of the United States,