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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: I have known Peter Navarro for decades. He's a pinata

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Speaker 2: for so many in America. I want to reaffirm who

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Speaker 2: doctor Navarro is. In nineteen ninety four, a bombshell of

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Speaker 2: a book came out of University of California, Irvine. It

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Speaker 2: was called The Coming China Wars, and Peter Navarro Agree

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Speaker 2: or Disagree invented a franchise and conversation point on America

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Speaker 2: and China. A guy up in New York, Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: citizen looked at mister Navarro and said, hey, I can

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Speaker 2: agree with that. And of course Peter Navarro advises our

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Speaker 2: second term President of the United States as senior counselor

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Speaker 2: to the President. Doctor Navarro, thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: joining Bloomberg today. I want to get right to it, Peter.

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Speaker 2: When you were at Irvine, you lectured on McKinley's capitulation

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Speaker 2: on tariffs. McKinley was the arch Trump like protectionist of

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Speaker 2: the nineteenth century, and he did the Buffalo pivot where

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Speaker 2: he said, we've got to get more open. Are we

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Speaker 2: in the process now of a modern Buffalo pivot?

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Speaker 3: Tom?

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Speaker 1: First of all, I just want to let the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: audience know how much I admire you. For years I've

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Speaker 1: I just love what you do.

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Speaker 3: So let me get that out of the way.

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Speaker 1: McKinley, Henry Clay, Abraham Lincoln, Alexander Hamilton. These are like

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Speaker 1: the four people on the Mount Rushmore of American tariffs.

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Speaker 1: And we are not in any pivot away from that.

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Speaker 1: We are fully embracing a structural shift engineered by Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump in the entire international global trading system in a

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Speaker 1: way which will make that system better and more prosperous.

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Speaker 3: The problem we've had tom is under the rules, the

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Speaker 3: very rules of the.

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Speaker 1: World Trade Organization, specifically the most Favored Nation rule, every

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Speaker 1: other nation in the world has had a license to

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Speaker 1: cheat us through higher tariffs, higher non tariff bearers, and

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Speaker 1: the costs, particularly after NAFTA and China joined the World

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Speaker 1: Trade Organization in two thousand and one, has been in

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Speaker 1: the one hundred thousands of factories and the millions of jobs.

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Speaker 3: And we are reversing that.

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Speaker 1: And you can see fifty thousand on the now, which

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Speaker 1: I predicted in April.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna guification with Trump, either you.

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Speaker 2: Or Kevin Hasset. I'm gonna give credit for that, Peter Navarre,

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Speaker 2: We're gonna go with you on the sequence here. You

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Speaker 2: mentioned the follow on from NAFTA. I spoke to our

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Speaker 2: Josh Wingrove this morning and he made really clear what

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Speaker 2: we need to know is a president actually thinking about

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Speaker 2: moving away from our trade agreements with Mexico in Canada.

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Speaker 2: Have you ever heard the president say I want out

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Speaker 2: of NAFTA and everything that followed it.

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Speaker 1: Tom, I'm one of three people, Stephen Miller Dan Scavino

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Speaker 1: being the other two who was with the president from

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Speaker 1: the twenty sixteen campaign through all four years of the

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Speaker 1: first term. And the reason why that happened, among other things,

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Speaker 1: is I never get ahead of the president. I can

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Speaker 1: tell you this that USMCA has some significant flaws in it,

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Speaker 1: and it's going to be reevaluated in July. The Great

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Speaker 1: Jamison Greer, or US Trade Representative will be taking the

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Speaker 1: lean on that. But nothing ever happens in the White

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Speaker 1: House without the Commander in chief, particularly on trade. So

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Speaker 1: as the Boss says, let's see what happens. But we're

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Speaker 1: in a situation. One of the things you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: the senior Counselor of Trade Manufacturing and one of One

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Speaker 1: of the things that's really troubling right now, it should

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Speaker 1: be troubling to the variant people, is that Mexico UH

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Speaker 1: and and to extend Canada are basically being used by

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Speaker 1: staging areas for countries like China, some of the European countries,

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Speaker 1: the Asian countries, Jupean Korea, They come into into Mexico

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Speaker 1: and they leverage NAFTA, UH and now US m c

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Speaker 1: A to get into our markets in a way which

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Speaker 1: essentially is terriff avoidance at best and tariff of evasion at worst.

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Speaker 3: Could have to deal with that.

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Speaker 2: Tom accrastination and worldwide. Peter Navarro with us with the

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Speaker 2: Trump administration our Paul Sweeney with doctor Navarro.

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Speaker 4: Mister Navarro, I guess last night we saw in the

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Speaker 4: House of Representatives they voted to end some of President's

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Speaker 4: tariff agenda against Canada.

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Speaker 3: Did they overstep their bounds?

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Speaker 4: What is the response of the administration?

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Speaker 1: Well, I think it's highly ironic, Paul, that the Democrat

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Speaker 1: Party is opposing tariffs on behalf of working class Americans

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Speaker 1: when it was the Democrat Party, which is supposed to

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Speaker 1: be the party of the working class. They simply because

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Speaker 1: they hate Donald Trump, now they're anti tariff. I think

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Speaker 1: the bigger story is the shame on the three Republicans

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Speaker 1: who defected. Although Thomas Massey I don't consider him of

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Speaker 1: the nice anymore.

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Speaker 3: I'm being nice.

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Speaker 1: What I'm just telling them like it is. It's like Nancy,

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Speaker 1: hang on, let me give a compliment to the Democrats.

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Speaker 3: The Democrats hold ranks and we don't, and we got

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Speaker 3: to stop.

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Speaker 1: Not holding ranks, sir, because it's very harmful to the

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Speaker 1: party and to this country when we have that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing going on.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Peter Well said, but let's give two examples right now.

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Speaker 2: Tom Barrett, who's the congressman from Lancing, Michigan. He's got

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Speaker 2: two GM factories up here, his Republican working class constituents

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Speaker 2: who President Trump stole from the Democrats. Tom Barrett is

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Speaker 2: going to fight for his life in that congressional district

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Speaker 2: in Lancing, Michigan. What do you need to do to

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Speaker 2: get Tom Barrett re elected?

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Speaker 1: Well, okay, so that's a bigger conversation.

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Speaker 3: I can tell you this.

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Speaker 1: The stakes have never been higher in a mid term

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Speaker 1: congressional election. If we lose the House in twenty twenty sixteen,

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Speaker 1: we will see a repeat of the impeachment circus craziness

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Speaker 1: that we saw beginning in twenty eighteen. It really was

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Speaker 1: tremendously harmful. The Democrats they hate Trump more than they

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Speaker 1: love this country, is Corey Lewandowski once said, and our

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Speaker 1: strategy now, Look, they're coming at us on affordability number one.

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Speaker 3: We are turning that around as we speak.

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Speaker 1: We're taking a micro approach to the macro problem inflation.

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Speaker 1: We're taking it cow by cow, fish by fish, gallon

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Speaker 1: by gallon. And nothing is more important to the President

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Speaker 1: than strong growth in a deflationary environment. Following the four

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Speaker 1: pillars of trump Nomics tax cuts, we got strategic energy dominance,

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Speaker 1: we got deregulation, and of course fair trade. So we're

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Speaker 1: gonna first of all, address the affordability crisis head on.

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Speaker 1: We're making great progress on that. The border issue remains troublesome.

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Speaker 1: I've got a peace out in a rival network thing

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Speaker 1: today that does the body count when you let millions

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Speaker 1: of illegal aliens in to this country. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: lost two Americans in Minneapolis because of what was going

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Speaker 1: on there, But my calculations, tens of thousands of Americans

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Speaker 1: are going to be either murdered burgled, raped, or assaulted

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Speaker 1: by the illegal aliens unless we deport them.

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Speaker 3: So that's going to be and that bound zero.

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Speaker 4: You know, one of the things. We saw very strong

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Speaker 4: jobs report yesterday, but a lot of economs will say,

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Speaker 4: this is an economy that is kind of slow hiring

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Speaker 4: or no hiring, but slow or no cuts in jobs.

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Speaker 4: It's just kind of hanging out there. If you want

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Speaker 4: this economy to grow, many economers would argue, you need

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Speaker 4: a larger workforce. Does that suggest the administration may rethink

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Speaker 4: their immigration policy? Hey?

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Speaker 1: Hey, god, we had one hundred and seventy thousand private

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Speaker 1: sector jobs created last month. One hundred and seventy thousand.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, Paul, the best answer to your

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Speaker 1: question is increase the labor force participation. Oh, it went

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Speaker 1: up yesterday in the report, even as the unemployment rate

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Speaker 1: went down. How many times do you see that we're

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Speaker 1: looking at five percent GDP growth and we're looking at earnings,

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Speaker 1: which you're off the charts, and back in April April seventh,

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Speaker 1: to be exact, when the futures for the Dow were

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Speaker 1: thirty eight thousand, My friend, thirty eight thousand on reciprocal

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Speaker 1: Titanic I said fifty thousand on the.

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Speaker 2: Dot turned to that's all look computer Novar.

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Speaker 1: His well, Kevin wrote a book like years ago. He

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Speaker 1: never said fifty thousand on the Dow this year. Just

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Speaker 1: to be clear, Peter.

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Speaker 2: Navarro with us here nationwide and of course some miservin

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Speaker 2: California as well. Peter, you mentioned the midterm elections. Here's

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Speaker 2: the reality for the president right now. You go out

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Speaker 2: I eight across Illinois, you run into the Big River

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Speaker 2: and there's Davenport, Iowa. The Republican in the first congressional

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Speaker 2: district won that district by six votes last time around.

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Speaker 2: They didn't cross the aisle yesterday to vote with the Democrats.

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Speaker 2: But they've had it with the Navarro Trump trade. What

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Speaker 2: do you need to amend to get Republicans re elected

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Speaker 2: in November?

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Speaker 3: I just so disagree with that.

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Speaker 1: Iowa loves Donald Trump, and by the way, farmers love

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: Farmers above all.

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Speaker 1: Understand the necessity for tariffs. And every time there's been

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Speaker 1: retaliation by China or the European, by the Canadians, guests

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Speaker 1: who's had the farmers back. I've personally been involved with

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Speaker 1: the Great Brook rawlings over at the Department of agriculture

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Speaker 1: and making sure that farmers are made whole and can't

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Speaker 1: be used as bargaining chips and pawns in a bigger game.

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Speaker 1: So I you know, Iowa is Trump country and just

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Speaker 1: it's like you're making assertions that I just I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you start with an assertion that's wrong, then everything

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Speaker 1: that else that follows is.

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Speaker 3: Peter, I want to get this talking about.

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Speaker 2: This is too important, and Paul wants to talk about

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Speaker 2: the legal background as well. Peter Navarro, we had a

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Speaker 2: two to three percent terraf regime for whatever reasons, and

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Speaker 2: you were providing leadership on this. We had Liberation Day

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Speaker 2: in the Rose Garden and we went up, up and away,

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Speaker 2: and Toby n Angle at the Ft has brilliantly shown

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Speaker 2: that we've pulled back our blended terriff freight right now,

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Speaker 2: I'm guessing to ten to eleven percent. Where is Peter

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Speaker 2: Navarro's optimum blended terriff rate if it's not the two

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Speaker 2: to three percent that President Biden and others had before you.

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Speaker 1: Great question, and the way I like to think about

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Speaker 1: it is.

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Speaker 3: The trade deficit. The trade deficit.

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Speaker 1: When it's chronic like it has been, and large like

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Speaker 1: it has been is toxic to the future of this country.

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Speaker 1: First of all, a big trade deficit that's chronic, that's

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Speaker 1: opposed to occasional, is a proxy for all the factories

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Speaker 1: and jobs and supply chains that go offshore. When that happens,

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Speaker 1: that not only hurts us economically, it's hurts us from

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Speaker 1: a national security point of view, as the pandemic underscored.

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Speaker 3: So there is that.

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Speaker 1: Secondly, when you run a chronic trade deficit, you're basically

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Speaker 1: shipping your wealth offshore. Done that by the last calculation,

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Speaker 1: I made something like fifteen trillion dollars of our property.

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Speaker 2: But we're going to s Peter.

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Speaker 1: Bottom line, Tom, is when the trade deaficy gets to zero.

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Speaker 3: Then you've got the run that thing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, but by the way, by the way, the

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Speaker 1: goal here is simply fair trade.

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Speaker 3: And what we're doing, what.

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Speaker 1: The President is doing with Jamieson Greeer, Scott Bessen, Howard

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Speaker 1: Lugnik are doing is working with our allies and countries

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Speaker 1: around the world to get them to lower their tariffs

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Speaker 1: and trade bearers. And who in bloomberg Land could disagree

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Speaker 1: with that.

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Speaker 3: As Peter and disagree with the results.

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Speaker 2: Tom, I got to get this, say because Sweeney's like

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Speaker 2: all Supreme Court right now. Peter Nevaua didn't answer my question.

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Speaker 2: We came up, we had liberations that we did. No,

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Speaker 2: you did not.

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Speaker 1: We said your question was what will SAT five? Peter

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Speaker 1: Navar and I say, when.

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Speaker 2: The trailer, what is the zeroimum? What is the optimum

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Speaker 2: blended terrifright? James Diamond wants to know that. Brian moynan

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Speaker 2: wants to know that. Solomon over at Golden Sax wants

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Speaker 2: to know that. And the people in the first Congressional

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Speaker 2: District of Iowa where are we heading is these exemptions

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Speaker 2: come in? Do you see a seven percent optimal terrifreight?

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Speaker 2: Four percent? Do we capitulate and go right back to

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Speaker 2: two to three percent?

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Speaker 1: So here's a Kevin Spacey aside here, Jamie Diamond, lower.

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Speaker 3: Your fringing credit card interest rates.

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Speaker 1: You are a criminal away you charge the American people

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Speaker 1: at twenty two, twenty five and thirty percent, and the

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Speaker 1: president wants you to lower that.

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Speaker 3: So until Jamie, until you do.

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Speaker 1: That, please refrain from commenting on other public policies. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Paul got that off my check now and answer respect

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Speaker 1: to your question.

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Speaker 3: Please, the way we think about it.

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Speaker 1: This is important is that every country that we trade

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Speaker 1: with is like figure prints, right, they're unique, which is

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Speaker 1: to say they cheat us in their own way. It's

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Speaker 1: like some countries like India have had the highest tariffs,

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Speaker 1: some countries like Japan have had the highest non tariff barriers.

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Speaker 1: Some countries like China have all of that stuff going on.

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Speaker 1: So when you ask me what the what the appropriate

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Speaker 1: tariff would be, it's it's bespoke.

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Speaker 3: It's like what President Trump does.

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Speaker 1: He goes country by country by country and he sets

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Speaker 1: the tariffs according to how badly they're cheating us. So

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Speaker 1: there's no there's no blended tariff concept here. It's like

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Speaker 1: a country specifically.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for that. Let's get Paul Sweeney in here.

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Speaker 3: He just real quickly.

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Speaker 4: There's some of President Trump's tariff policies in front of

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Speaker 4: the Supreme Court. To the extent the Supreme Court rules

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Speaker 4: against the administration, what will be its response, Well, first.

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Speaker 3: Of all, let's talk about the law and the use

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Speaker 3: of i EPAH.

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Speaker 1: If the Supreme Court wants to rule in favor of

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Speaker 1: President Trump, the law is clearly on the Supreme Court side, and.

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Speaker 3: You have is a teriff attacks no it's.

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Speaker 1: A tariff on foreigners, and is a tariff a form

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Speaker 1: of restriction on imports. Of course, it is just like

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Speaker 1: quotas and other things UH and embargoes. So those are

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Speaker 1: the two points of law which this case is about.

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Speaker 1: And if the Supreme Court wants to rule in President's favor,

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Speaker 1: clearly the law is on their side. With respect to

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Speaker 1: Plan B, of course we have a Plan B, but

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Speaker 1: this is not the place for me to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: If if the decision comes out next Friday, which would

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Speaker 1: be the next time the Supreme Court is going to

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Speaker 1: be releasing decisions, then will the President will speak for

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Speaker 1: on what's going to happen, and then folks like me

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Speaker 1: will come in behind them and explain the details.

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Speaker 2: Peter, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you

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Speaker 2: for commenting on the realities for the first Congressional District

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Speaker 2: of Iowa. I believe it's the eighth congressional district of

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Speaker 2: Michigan as well. And on the world of trade. Peter Navarro,

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Speaker 2: Senior Counselor to the President for Trade and Manufacturing for

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Speaker 2: the President of the United States,