1 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: Hi, Brian Goldsmith. Hi Katie Kuric. So happy to be 2 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: with you and so happy to talk about politics. You know, 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: it's been a little over three weeks since election day 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: and people, I think Brian, are still trying to process it. 5 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 1: It's almost if they're going through those stages of Greek 6 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: that Elizabeth Coopler Ross talked to us about. At least 7 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: if you're on the losing side, and many of those 8 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: folks are still at the denial stage, don't you think, Well, 9 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: that's clearly true because a lot of them are sending 10 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: millions of dollars to Green Party Canada Jill Stein Online 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: to pursue recounts in three places where the famous blue 12 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: Wall broke for Hillary Clinton, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. And 13 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: I am probably more likely to grow wings and start 14 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: to fly than for those recounts to overturn the results 15 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: of the election. It's just not going to happen. The 16 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: margins are too big. Meanwhile, Trump Tower has been the 17 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: site of very interesting comings and goings with a lot 18 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: of different candidates and almost feels like the dating game 19 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: where people are coming and they're courting Donald Trump, They're 20 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: having conversations with him most recently for Secretary of State. 21 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: And uh, it's been a fascinating thing to watch because 22 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: it's been so public, hasn't it. Brian, Yeah, it's it's 23 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: almost like a reality show, you could say. I mean, 24 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: normally this process is very hush hush. Certainly the president 25 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: elect doesn't communicate publicly about who the candidates are and 26 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: how excited he is to meet them or to interview them. 27 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: I know, it's like it's like he's sixty four. He 28 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: was a general, he was behind the Iraq Sir. He 29 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: had a bear with his biographer. Ladies and gentlemen, please 30 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: welcome dun dunt dun du. General David Buttres Now is 31 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: Chuck Woolery, the host of the Dating Go Oh No, 32 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: that was Jim Lange, Baby Jim Lang. Anyway, let's move 33 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: on to our guest. Brian tell us about him. Brian, Well, 34 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:23,959 Speaker 1: I think he's a little bit better at breaking down 35 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: politics than seventies game shows. But we're gonna have to 36 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: sort of bear with him. Uh. He's really a central 37 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: figure in Republican politics. He's advised almost every big name 38 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: GOP candidate, from John McCain to Mitt Romney. He had 39 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 1: his own podcast earlier this year, and he offered a 40 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: very fascinating look into what Trump selection means, how it happened, 41 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: and the path forward for the country. Mike Murphy, Welcome 42 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: to our little podcast. We're so excited you're here. Thank 43 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: you for having me. I have a lot of time 44 00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: on my hands now I have to ask you, Mike, 45 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: how's it. What's a nice kid like you doing in 46 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: a profession like this? How did you get into political consulting? 47 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: For crying out loud? Well, I may be out of 48 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: it now because I was ethically wrong this year. I 49 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: was like the automic that's true, it's a big room. 50 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: But I was saying all year mathematically, I did not 51 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 1: think Trump could get enough votes to win. It turns 52 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: out that you can lose by doing half million and 53 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: still win. So it's been a character building experience. But 54 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: I got into this. I'm from Detroit. I'm from a 55 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: political family of Democrats, so I kind of grew up 56 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: around it, and I kind of got the bug for 57 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: domestic politics. So I was still a college student. I 58 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: worked for this congressman nobody thought could win out of 59 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: my dorm room making radio commercials. And he won, and 60 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: so one thing led to another, and now I'm a 61 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: political consultant. So I called back to Democrat headquarters at 62 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: our house in Detroit and told my parents I'm gonna 63 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: drop out of Georgetown and go run off and join 64 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: the Republican Party. And yeah, only converting to an Episcopalian 65 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: might have been worse. It was. It was a bumpy conversation. 66 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: So I took a leave of absence from Georgetown. Uh, 67 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: and I've never gone back. I do really more corporate 68 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: and kind of grown up stuff now. I pretty much 69 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: retired from doing campaigns, though Jeb did drag me back 70 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: for one more great effort because I believed in him. 71 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: I thought he'd be the best president. So I ran 72 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: the Jeb Bush Superpack, which gives me the unique credential 73 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: of having blown over nine million dollars and not. And 74 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: we should we should let people know that Murphy's kind 75 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: of the Zelig of American politics. His clients have included 76 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: Jeff Bush, as he mentioned, Mitt Romney, John McCain, Arnold Schwarzenegger, 77 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: Tommy Thompson, Christie Whitman, so many others. Um I'm always 78 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 1: very amused on Twitter when people give him suggestions about 79 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: how political strategy, strategy should be done, and his response 80 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: as always, well, how many senators and governors have you elected? 81 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: Which that I'm My specialty is winning governor races, which 82 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: I did, you know, worked hard to help Jeff Bush 83 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: win in Florida or Mitt Romney and Massachusetts. Then later 84 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: on when they lose the presidential stuff, I always take 85 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: my share of the blame, but I'm very proud of 86 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: the governor's I worked for in the senators. Well, and 87 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: you're more of a hopeless romantic, as you've described yourself 88 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: in presidential politics. What does what does that mean? Well? No, 89 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: and I have a rule that in the presidential field 90 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 1: you should not be mercenaries. So I always pick the 91 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: person I think should be president, regardless of where they 92 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: are in the pulse, which is not a great career decision, 93 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: but if you look at my record, I've done very 94 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: wealth senators and governors have about the best record in 95 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: the Republican Party. But at the presidential level, I worked 96 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 1: for Lamar Alexander. I thought he'd be the best guy. 97 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: We started one percent and got to nine. You know, 98 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:41,559 Speaker 1: we never quite made it. I worked for John McCain 99 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: in two thousand because I thought he'd be the best. 100 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 1: I took two thousand and eight off because I was 101 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: close to McCain and Romney, and I thought it was 102 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: an ethical conflict to work for either one of them. 103 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: I did work for George H. W. Bush and eighty eight. 104 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: I also worked earlier in that primary for Bob Dole. 105 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,679 Speaker 1: So I always think the presidential thing is a higher 106 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: level deal and you should really pick the best person, 107 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: regardless of Poleon, and you know, have the argument within 108 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: the party and see which faction wins. And I've been 109 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: less lucky at that, but I'm I don't regret working 110 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: for any of those guys. I think they all would 111 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: have been excellent presidents. So to take us forward to 112 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 1: this year, you you know the criticism, you know, raised 113 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: this historic amount of money, and Jeb Bush had the 114 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: name and the connections and the endorsements, and it was 115 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: a big flop and therefore all your fault. Um, what's 116 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: your what's your response to people who sort of questioned 117 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: your acumen coming out of the Bush Superpack experience, Well, 118 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: this job being a political consultant or running a big 119 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: play co operations, like being a Big ten football coach. 120 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: Everybody with a bar stool in fifty states thinks they 121 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: can do your job. I spent a lot of time 122 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: thinking about things we could have done differently, and I 123 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: imagine as there's other senior people at right to rise 124 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: have We had some of the best consultants in the 125 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: party with Larry McCarthy, Eliza Hickey had had a great 126 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 1: run at the NFCC, and we all think about things 127 00:06:57,880 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: we could have done differently, but none of us come 128 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: up with the outcome of we win the primary. We 129 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: just weren't what they were looking for. And I would say, 130 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: in some ways, though, you know, you never want to 131 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: justify a loss his businesses about winning. Jeb stuck to 132 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: his principles and never had to apologize for anything you 133 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,280 Speaker 1: did in that campaign. And I think if he was 134 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: a nominee, we would have won the general election and 135 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: the country would be united behind him. Today people didn't 136 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: take Donald Trump seriously, including you. How were you so wrong? 137 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 1: How were so many people so wrong? Might well, we 138 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: took him seriously, but not. I mean, here's our view 139 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: because we you know, we talked to a lot of 140 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: Republican primary voters, so we had a pretty good landscape 141 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: of what was going on and we saw there was 142 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: about a third of the vote that was interested in Trump, 143 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: and none of those people were interested in Jeff Bush. 144 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: We were never going to get Trump and Cruise voters 145 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: to vote for a guy like Jeff Bush. Uh. And 146 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: so there might have been things we could have done 147 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: better on Rubio, better on k Sake. Uh, we might 148 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: have sold Jeb in better ways, But Jeff was never 149 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: going to go to the border and start rounding people up. 150 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 1: He was never going to take that grievance message. To 151 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: his credit, I joked that we were we were selling 152 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 1: classical music records at the Tractor Poll, and sixty of 153 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: the primary was wasn't interested in what we were selling. 154 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: And so there it is. You know, I'm struck by 155 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: something you said a little bit earlier that you had 156 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: the best professionals and the party, these highly regarded consultants. 157 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: And Hillary Clinton also had the most highly regarded, highly 158 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: paid Democratic consultants working for her, and she Yeah, she 159 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: won the popular vote, but she's not gonna be the 160 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: next president. Do you think that the era of the 161 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: professional political tactician is coming to a close and being 162 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: replaced by something new and different. No, I think that's 163 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: a conventional. It's a very fashionable opinion. So I know 164 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 1: for pretty much a fact that the single most surprised 165 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: person on election night was Donald Trump when he won 166 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 1: and his staff, some of whom were embedding pools, taking 167 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: him as a loss among political consultants. So now we're 168 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: going to have kind of the classic process story of 169 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 1: let's throw out everything we know about politics because we 170 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 1: had this flukish kind of win and the things that 171 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: have been true and predicted for forty years no longer count. 172 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: And maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I don't believe that 173 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: we were involved in some senate races helping hold the Senate, 174 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: and a lot of the same political consultants are the 175 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: idiots who worked for losing presidential campaigns were running winning 176 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 1: senate campaigns. So I I've been around too long and 177 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: seen too many fads come and go, particularly in the 178 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: Easy magazine writing to believe a big indictment like that 179 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: that said we can learn things from the Trump victory 180 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: and get better at what we do. Didn't Donald Trump 181 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: only w the eligible vote. So when you think about 182 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: like a mandate or an overwhelming victory, isn't that a 183 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: bit of a misnomer? Well, He won about forty six 184 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: and a half percent of the people who did vote, 185 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: which is a lower percentage than Mitt Romney got four 186 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: years ago. It's a lower percentage than you know, many 187 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 1: losing candidates over the years, like Hubert Humphrey and Gerald Ford. 188 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: So yeah, I think you're right that the mandate question 189 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 1: is is a real one. What do you think, Well, 190 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: I think it's true. In percentages and raw vote he 191 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: did pretty well. I mean, this was not a freakishly 192 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: low turnout election. I think the real story of election 193 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:21,079 Speaker 1: Day was the composition of the Republican vote that elected 194 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: Trump to the Electoral College was different than we've ever 195 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: seen before, and that's one reason a lot of us 196 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: missed it. So for people who are just trying to 197 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: kind of wrap their brains around what happened, Trump lost 198 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: a lot of the swing counties, He didn't perform as 199 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: well as winners normally need to perform, and Hillary hit 200 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: her marks and a lot of the Democratic counties. But 201 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: what happened was in Florida and in other places, Trump 202 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: got big turnout and big margins out of counties where 203 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: the Republican normally wins by fifteen or twenty. He would 204 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: win by thirty or more. He had huge spikes in 205 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: a relatively small number of places, though he got a 206 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 1: closer and many people thought to begin with. So you 207 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,800 Speaker 1: had two things going on. Lack of enthusiasm for Hillary, 208 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: who was a pretty bad candidate. I don't know what 209 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: her messages to this day. Stronger Together sounds like a 210 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: glue slugan to me, um. But the point is, if 211 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 1: you were swinging a hammer bendon metal in Macomb County, 212 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: another county in north of Detroit, industrial county where Obama 213 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: won last time, and he won big this time, you 214 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,319 Speaker 1: weren't that interested in the gender rules about bathrooms for LGBT. 215 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: You were wondering what people are gonna do about jobs 216 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: for blue collar people like you. Trump spoke to those people, 217 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: many of whom historically have been Democrats, many whom are 218 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: industrial union members. She did not, And I think that's 219 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: pretty big malepractice on the Democratic side, and you know 220 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: there will be some repercussions in their party. But she 221 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:55,079 Speaker 1: rolled over when it came to blue blue collar workers. 222 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: I mean, it seems she just abdicated that whole voting 223 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: block to Donald Trump. If I was reading a piece 224 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: in the New York Times that Bo Copley, who we 225 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,880 Speaker 1: had on Yahoo News the night of the election, a 226 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: coal miner. You know, people were saying in West Virginia 227 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: that all Donald Trump had to do was mentioned coal miners, 228 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: and they basically, you know, they flocked to him because 229 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: they have felt so marginalized and so out of the 230 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 1: mainstream for so long. Just a mere acknowledgement of their 231 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 1: existence was enough to win their vote. Well, there's no 232 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: doubt that the modern Democratic Party, and they've had some 233 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: success with this. But if you look at kind of 234 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: the intellectual elites that drive them, their thinkers, and you 235 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: look at the donor class that has huge influence, it's 236 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: heavily dominated by people kind of from the social issues 237 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: on the more libertarian i'll call it side uh more 238 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,680 Speaker 1: equal rights for people regardless of sexual preference, things like that, 239 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: and the strong environmental groups. So if you're you know, 240 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: if you're working in a plant with a smokestack uh 241 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: running on coal powered electric city, it doesn't look like 242 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: your party anymore. And I think they paid a political 243 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: price for that. But I have no doubt this was 244 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,079 Speaker 1: a real lockpicking of the electoral college. That's why the 245 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: Trump guys were surprised as the rest of us because 246 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: it was a very weird coalition he got and normally, 247 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: if you lose by two and a half million votes, 248 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: you lose. Um, So this thing, you know, the media 249 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: has to be careful about calling it a big mandate. 250 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: It's really still a divided country. But we saw a 251 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: pain scream, kind of a political riot of sorts from 252 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 1: about fifty counties where people have not had a raise 253 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: in real wages for a long time. They work in 254 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: the old economy, which doesn't seem hip and doesn't seem cool. 255 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: She didn't talk to them, and Trump did. Trump talked 256 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: to him pretty base language. I think there's some stains 257 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: on his campaign from the way he conducted himself, but 258 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: it worked. It was enough to get him close overall 259 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: and to trip those counties. Uh. And now he's the 260 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: president elect. Well, when we come back, let's talk about 261 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: how he's doing as president elect and about some of 262 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 1: the moves he's made us are both in terms of 263 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: personnel and on Twitter. But first we're going to take 264 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,160 Speaker 1: a break to hear from our sponsors and from you. 265 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: We'll be back with Mike Murphy right after this. During 266 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 1: our last episode, we asked to hear from some of 267 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: our conservative listeners and here's what you all had to say. Hi, 268 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: Bryan and Katie, this is Margie from Mississippi. I am 269 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: a conservative voter, and in regard to the future of 270 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: the Republican Party, a couple of things. First comment is 271 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: that you're correcting your last podcast in saying that callen 272 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: uneducated white voters. Feels like it is an inferior vote 273 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: compared to others, and that characterization is seen negatively. The 274 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: second thing is in regard to the Republican Party, that 275 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: that continue to be based on economic progress. I have 276 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: post for a Donald Trump administration in those respects and 277 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: further the Republican Party on those bases. You know, it's interesting. 278 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: She says that she was offended by some pundon's talking 279 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: about uneducated voters or non college voters. Donald Trump himself 280 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: said I love the poorly educated, and nobody in that 281 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: camp seemed to take much offense. So I guess it 282 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: depends on the messenger as well as the message. Well, 283 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: I think we talked about it, and it does seem 284 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: sort of smug and patronizing, So I appreciate that Margie 285 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 1: feels that way too, because I've always felt slightly uncomfortable 286 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: with the overuse of that characterization personally. Hey, Brian and 287 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,640 Speaker 1: Katie is Greg Gordon in Texas and I normally vote 288 00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: for the Republicans for president. This time I couldn't do it. Um. 289 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: Donald Trump scares me. He scares me because he's not presidential. 290 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: As a kid, I mean even now as an adult, 291 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: I look up to the president not so much that 292 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: they're smarter than me or better than things, but they 293 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:18,600 Speaker 1: just need to be presidential. George Washington, Franklin Roosevelt like, 294 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: and even Teddy Roosevelt, all those folks, Lendon Johnson, They're 295 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: just this big, humanous figure and I just don't see 296 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: it with him in his Twitter account. So anyway, thanks, 297 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: and I love y'all's podcast. Well, thank you Greg Gordon 298 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: in Texas for liking our podcast. You know, I wonder 299 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: if anybody can be larger than life and completely presidential 300 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: given the ubiquity of social media and how much access 301 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: the public has to these individuals. It's so accessible. What 302 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: do you think of that, Brian, I think there's something 303 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 1: to that. I think a lot of our greatest presidents 304 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: wouldn't pass through the filter of modern media. They wouldn't 305 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 1: get away with not being able to walk. Hiding their 306 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: physical infirmity is like Franklin Roosevelt did, or being as 307 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 1: as unfaithful to their spouse as John Kennedy was. But um, 308 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: there's something else there too, which is that if you 309 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: didn't like Donald Trump as a candidate, I don't think 310 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: you're liking Donald Trump as president elect. Right now He's 311 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: not operating in a dramatically different way than he did 312 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: before November eight. Meanwhile, for our next episode, we'll be 313 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: speaking with Valerie Jarrett, President Obama's longtime senior advisor and 314 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,200 Speaker 1: very close and longtime friend. What questions do you have 315 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 1: for her about her eight years working closely with President 316 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: Obama in the White House. Please call us and leave 317 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: us a message at nine to nine, two to four, four, six, 318 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: three seven. 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So go 331 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: to Omaha Steaks dot com, enter our offer code Katie 332 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: in the search bar, add the Family Gift Pack to 333 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: your cart and get a seventy seven percent savings. It's 334 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 1: the gift guaranteed to be a hit. Yeah, I'm hungry. 335 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 1: Cook out at Katie's. So we're back with the GOP Svengali, 336 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: Mike Murphy and you go back a long way with 337 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 1: Mitt Romney. You actually were the consultant for the only 338 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: political race he's ever won for governor of Massachusetts in 339 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 1: two thousand two. When we first met, you were plotting 340 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: the early moves of that campaign. And you know one 341 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: I like to tease Mitt that I'm the only political 342 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,920 Speaker 1: consultant has handed him a victory speech. Um, he reminds 343 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: me there were some primaries that he won in a 344 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:35,120 Speaker 1: nomination that I did not help him with. So he's 345 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: a good guy, he's a patriot, and I think, um, 346 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: you know, Elect Trump would be well advised to bring 347 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: some people into actually know the world. Well, President elect 348 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 1: Trump is putting met Romney through the ringer right now 349 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: by encouraging or at least allowing some of his top 350 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: aids to throw mud on Mitt Romney. To mix my metaphor, 351 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: And do you think Romney, if he's offered the job 352 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: of Secretary of State, should take it. Do you think 353 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 1: he'd be positioned to succeed in that job or what's 354 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: going on? Well, if you watch the Trump campaign, there's 355 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: a juvenile culture of silly in funding among his staff. 356 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: You know that we had about five purges. It was 357 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: a banana Republic of a campaign. So now we have 358 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: somebody Kelly and Conway who comes from the bottom tier 359 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: Republican posters. So I think kind of one a lucky 360 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: lottery here, Uh is out trashing Governor Romney in the press. Well, 361 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: the President elect is trying to put his cabinet together 362 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: having a fairly thoughtful process. I think of meeting with 363 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: people and sounding them out. So I'm going to try 364 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: to set an example for Kelly and of how staff operate. 365 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: And I'm not going to comment or speculate at all 366 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: on what Governor Romney may or may not do. Uh, 367 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: just to say that, um, he's eminently qualified, and I 368 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: respect the president elexibility to make this decision not be 369 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: buffaloed by the public antics of staffers. But do you 370 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: think he's walking into a situation in which he's going 371 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: to be second guest and criticized and anytime he makes 372 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: a move as Secretary of State, Well, we know what 373 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: the Trump campaign culture was, we don't know what the 374 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: Trump white House culture is. It's either evolving toward a 375 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: better thing or it will be the same. So I 376 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: think it's an open question, and there's one person on 377 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: the planet who can drive that, which is the president elect. 378 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: He's got to choose and uh, I think a lot 379 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 1: of people are surprised that it's not been kind of 380 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: tightened up, but that it's his operation, his culture. He's 381 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: the one. So we're waiting to see. Well, reading the 382 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: Tea leaves. What do you what do you anticipating? Mike, Well, 383 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,439 Speaker 1: I you know, I've learned not to handicap the and 384 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 1: predict the activity of Donald Trump. I thought he was 385 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: very gracious on election night, and I think he's had 386 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: days where he's succeeding. He's had days where he's been 387 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 1: tweeting silly things and shaking the confidence and some of 388 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: us who know what the job is. Uh So, I 389 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: think it's still an open question and these this silly 390 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: staff trashing nominees that the president elect is interested in. 391 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: I mean I saw even Axel Rod tweeted something about this. 392 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 1: None of us who have worked in serious presidential level 393 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: staff work have ever seen anything like it. So I, um, 394 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not going to fuel that fire by 395 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: speculating about what Mitt might or might not do. I'll 396 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: just say he's a grown up who knows the world. Uh. 397 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: He was proven, right. I think some of his criticism 398 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: President Obama on foreign policy, so his wisdom is proven. 399 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: I'm a real fan of Mitt Romney's I mean, I 400 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: like him very much, but when I think of foreign policy, 401 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,640 Speaker 1: the name that Romney does not come to mind immediately. 402 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 1: What really does qualify him to be Secretary of State. Mike, Well, 403 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: the job as Secretary of State is to both represent 404 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 1: the US abroad as the president's top surrogate in international relations, 405 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 1: and definitely looks the part. Yeah, that's the sexist remark. 406 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: I think that he is a good negotiator and he 407 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,680 Speaker 1: has relationships around the world. He is diplomatic and temperate. 408 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: He also made a principal criticism of some of the 409 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,400 Speaker 1: weaknesses of the Obama foreign policy, uh, both about Russia 410 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: and about the Middle East, that I think have born 411 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 1: more true than not. So he is uh. I think 412 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: he's as well briefed and by temperament as well equipped 413 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: to be Secretary of State as anybody. But again what 414 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: I think doesn't matter. It's down to the decision of 415 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,959 Speaker 1: the president elect. And I would encourage people to not 416 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:28,239 Speaker 1: watch the juvenile antics of of figurehead campaign managers on 417 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: Sunday shows and wait to hear from the president elect. 418 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: Conway online too, for you, Mike, she was a figurehead. 419 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: We all know Bannon ran the thing along with Trump, 420 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: but really ran and he's a one man show. So 421 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: I'm just not going to join the media heard of canonizing, 422 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: particularly this kind of behavior, which I think undermines our 423 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: own candidate. But from the Romney perspective, this is especially 424 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 1: striking because he gave a devastating speech in March attacking Trump. Um, so, 425 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: how can you turn around and work for someone you've 426 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: called a fraud and a phony, someone who would make 427 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 1: the world more dangerous and whose trademark is dishonesty? How 428 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: can you represent that person as you know, the chief 429 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: implement er of their foreign policy. Well, my guests, and 430 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,680 Speaker 1: I'm speculating here is the argument that people who would 431 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: urge mint Ronny you have offered to take such a 432 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: job as that the national interest is the highest thing, 433 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: and the more competent people who join a campaign team 434 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: that may be a team of rivals, to use a 435 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: familiar phrase, would be serving the country wealth. The president 436 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: asks you, it's hard to say no. Now, it's up 437 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:33,199 Speaker 1: to the President elect to do the asking, and he 438 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: may never do that. But if you're asked and the 439 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,360 Speaker 1: president elect things that the campaign is over and it's 440 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: time to unite and he could use your skills to 441 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: further national interests, it's a hard thing to say no to. 442 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: You know. There's been controversy around another Trump appointment Jeff 443 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: Sessions for attorney general. I think this is correct, right. 444 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: You worked for Sessions when he ran for the Senate. Ironically, 445 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: in Jeff's first campaign, his consultants from myself and John Weaver, 446 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: who worked for Ca Sick. Yeah, exactly, both Trump critics. 447 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: This is a guy who was denied, as you know, 448 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: a federal judge ship about thirty years ago because of 449 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: allegedly racist comments he made. Do you think he'd be 450 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 1: a good attorney general? Do you think his credentials on 451 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: race or are strong enough to unite the country? Brian, 452 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: how did I become a surrogate for the Trump transition 453 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 1: team here? I'm asking your opinion as a political expert 454 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: and as somebody who worked for the attorney general designate. 455 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 1: I do not believe he has a racist bone in 456 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: his body. I worked for him in one campaign. I 457 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: did not do the reelection. Um. I think it will 458 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: be up to his Senate colleagues to look at his 459 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: full record, and my guess is he will be confirmed. Um. 460 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: You know, I have my own views about who ought 461 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: to be attorney general. I have my own views about 462 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: who ought to be in the Trump White House. I 463 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: have my own views about Trump's hairstyle a lot of 464 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: be but you know, I have no standing here, so um, 465 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: but they ever reach out to you, Mike, and I 466 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: think you'd be doing a podcast with noted meteorologist on 467 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: the phenomenon of hell freezing over before I think they'd 468 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 1: ever reach out to me. And I think, well, you 469 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: know who, who who would have thought that they'd reach 470 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: out to Mitt Romney after he gave that, as Brian said, 471 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 1: devastating speech during the campaign. I mean, stranger things have happened. Well, 472 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: I think if the idea of Mitt Romney is Secretary 473 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: of State, a widely respected guys enough to drive Poort, 474 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 1: Kelly and Conway to distraction, that my name would probably 475 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: put her into intensive care. So in the interest of 476 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: her health, let's hope there's none of that speculation. But no, 477 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: I don't think so. I have. You know, I'm friendly 478 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: with I care a lot about the domestic agenda we're 479 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: going to have, which I think could be really good 480 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: for America with Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan, both people 481 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: have a lot of respect for So I'm I'm pretty 482 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: focused on whatever I can do to help the Republican team, 483 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: you know, create economic growth, lift up wages for everybody, 484 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: and not have a trade war, which is the scariest 485 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: part of Trump's campaign promises. Though I've learned that Donald 486 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 1: Trump is flexible and I'm not sure people should take 487 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 1: his campaign rhetoric at face value, which I think would 488 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: be a good thing. Well, speaking of that, I have 489 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: to ask you about about some of these blue collar 490 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: folks who supported him. There have been a number of 491 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: articles since the election saying basically, he's not going to 492 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: be able to deliver on these campaign promises. He is 493 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: not going to be the messiah that many of these 494 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: folks hoped he would be. Um, what's going to happen 495 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 1: when he's not going to be able to deliver? Well, 496 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 1: that's a big question. I think if we get enough 497 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: economic growth and wages lift up, he'll get a lot 498 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: of credit for that. But you have to be careful. Um, 499 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of like steroids. Uh yeah, you 500 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: made grown muscles quickly, but all of a sudden you've 501 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: got hard problems. So you've got to be careful with 502 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: some of that rhetoric. And I think one of the 503 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 1: things that Trump administration is going to have to do 504 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: is manage expectations that he's clearly raised in these places 505 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 1: that he can wave a wand and make makes some 506 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 1: of the problems of manufacturing jobs go away. Vanish that said, 507 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: a growth agenda um with cheap energy, cheap electric power 508 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: which we haven't grasped in America now because of our 509 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: abundant energy resources, and things the government can do can 510 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: make manufacturing more competitive in the US, and I think 511 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: we can stem that tide. So there could be some 512 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: good news with the right policy, but those expectations are 513 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: now pretty high in those places. I saw a chart 514 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: in the Washington Post Mike that said manufacturing output is 515 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 1: actually up, its employment at those manufacturing establishments that is down. 516 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: In other words, automation is really responsible for these jobs 517 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: being reduced. So you know what's he going to do 518 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: about that. Well, that's a challenge across the economy because 519 00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: we have increasing productivity, which means fewer people are producing more, 520 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: which is good for the economy, creates more wealth, lifts 521 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: up the country. But take self driving cars. If they 522 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: do become a huge thing in ten or fifteen years, 523 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: we're gonna put a lot of truck drivers out of work. 524 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: So we're going to have to get a lot better 525 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 1: than the government has been traditionally at retraining people for 526 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: better skills, and I think we have to take a 527 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: new look at our our educational system. The German model 528 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: is pretty good about training people and kind of vocational 529 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: skills are the jobs of the future, because the hardest 530 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: thing to do is get any kind of toothpaste back 531 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: in the tube. And having the old approach, which is, hey, 532 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: you were a master machinist, you're fifty four. Uh, now 533 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: you're gonna learn how to uh teach children's theater because 534 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: we're gonna have a ridiculous night course here. Um that 535 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: we know that doesn't work, so doing more of the 536 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: same doesn't do it. But you said you're optimistic that 537 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: Trump's agenda could spark economic growth and be good for 538 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: the country. The core of his agenda seems to be 539 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: a big regressive tax cut. I mean, there's no evidence 540 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 1: that the that the George W. Bush tax cut, or 541 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: even the Reagan tax cut was responsible for big economic growth. 542 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: There's no evidence that eliminating the estate tax and the 543 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: gift tax would be good for economic growth. So you're 544 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: smiling because you think I'm giving you democratic talking points 545 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: where you are but keep going well. And the other 546 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: big part of his agenda is attacks credit to support 547 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: for profit infrastructure developers, which is also deeply problematic because 548 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: most of our most highly needed sort of infrastructure projects 549 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: are not the kinds of things that would be attractive 550 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: to these for profit developers. So what what gives you 551 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: hope in his agenda? The fact is that the best 552 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: thing for wages is economic growth because it creates more 553 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: demand in the labor market and raises wages. That's our 554 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: big problem. Um, if you're in the working poor, we 555 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: have a great social welfare system. If you fall a 556 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: little bit into poverty, we're not so great at the 557 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 1: institutions of upwards social mobility for people in the working 558 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: poor or in the middle class. So we need more 559 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: labor demand and we need to be better at retraining. 560 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: The bigger question for me an economic policy is not 561 00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: our text cuts good. It's Will Trump, who's a populist. 562 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: And when I think about the stick policy, by the way, 563 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: I'm listening to McConnell and Ryan a little more than 564 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: i'm listening to prisioner like Trump right now, because I 565 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: my guess is they're going to be leading on it 566 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: and he'll be okay with that. But Will Trump is 567 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: a populacet to have the guts to take on the 568 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: entitlement problem, which is a huge suck on the candidate. 569 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,479 Speaker 1: He wouldn't do right well, there's appetite to take some 570 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: political pain in the House and the Senate on the 571 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: Republican side to do it. And I think that in 572 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,080 Speaker 1: trade could be the too big domestic fracture points. I 573 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: think people should also never forget that despite all the 574 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: focus on personalities, the Congress really has the power in 575 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: domestic policy. The presidents no push over. He has ability 576 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: for executive orders and to appoint people, but the budget, 577 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: the big things come out of the Congress. Institutionally, there's 578 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: always pressure. So will Trump fight that or he kind 579 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: of outsourced domestic policy to the Republicans there and focus 580 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: on foreign policy. That to me is one of the 581 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: big decisions you'll have to make, because if he starts 582 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: fighting with the congressional guys and nothing will happen, which is, 583 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: you know, something we proved for a decade now, it 584 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: seems unlikely that his base is going to be content 585 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: with the kind of Marco Rubio style domestic policy agenda 586 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,239 Speaker 1: of free trade, and big tax. I don't know. It's 587 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: kind of an open question. I mean, I agree he's 588 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: made some promises on trade, where see if he believes him. 589 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: I hope he doesn't because the trade war would be 590 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: devastating for the economy and it would really hurt the 591 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 1: people that he ran to help. But you know, his 592 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: face is built more. His appeal on the party is 593 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: base more in personality that he's a can do guy 594 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: who's going to come to Washington shake things up. He 595 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: was a way to punish a political system that Americans 596 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: have lost faith in. So ideologically, one lesson we learned 597 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: in the primaries that all the campaigns assumed early that 598 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: yet Trump's gonna He's famous from television, he's interesting. The 599 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: media is in business with him, you know, because he's rating. 600 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: So he'll have a spike. But then the ideological stuff 601 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: will catch him. Because in the last thousand Republican primaries, 602 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: ideology was a huge deal. This year it took a break. 603 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,720 Speaker 1: People gave Trump a huge ass on ideology. We've never 604 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 1: seen that before. That's one reason we were all wrong. 605 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: So I don't know if the ideological schism will work 606 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 1: in the future. It didn't work in the primary now 607 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: normally over the fullness of time, it does work, and 608 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: I would agree with you, But then again, that's why 609 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: I thought Trump would probably not be nominated, and I 610 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: was You're wrong. One story that I wanted to get 611 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,719 Speaker 1: your view on, UM that's gotten a lot of attention 612 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: the last few days is this recount effort in the 613 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: three states you mentioned Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania being helmed 614 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: by the Green Party Candida jill Stein for what she's 615 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: been able to raise millions of dollars online. Some people 616 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: are saying that that might be a scam, but I'm 617 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: curious whether you think there's any chance that could that 618 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: could make a difference in one state, let alone three, 619 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 1: and kind of what the purpose of all of this is. 620 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: You know, I think she's already done enough to help 621 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 1: Donald Trump. UM, if you're looking at some of the 622 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: votes and places where she had little spikes, uh and 623 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: heard Hillary Clinton. Look, I don't get it. It is 624 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: a very close result in Michigan, it is a very 625 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: close result in Wisconsin. But even if those were more 626 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: actiously overturned by recount, which none of the kind of 627 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: political grown ups in those states that I know think 628 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: the Pennsylvania is still there. In Pennsylvania, sixty thousand votes 629 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 1: is a good number. It's close, But the Pennsylvania recount 630 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: system is very cumbersome too, and I doubt that Jill 631 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: Stein people have the organizational acumen to even be able 632 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: to prosecute that. So I think it is not a 633 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: good thing for the country to argue over the legitimacy 634 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 1: of an election. If you don't like this, then argue 635 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: for a new electoral college system, the Compact, which is saying, 636 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: you know, which would allocate electors by popular vote and ratio, 637 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: not winner take all in each state that doesn't need 638 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,720 Speaker 1: the constitutional change. What do you think that should happen? 639 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: You know, I'm torn about it. I'm a Republican, so 640 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:48,800 Speaker 1: I like the fact we have a little English on 641 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: the ball in electoral college. Um, but I think it 642 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: is let's put this way, We've had enough of these outcomes. 643 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: We've had two in sixteen years where the electoral college 644 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,960 Speaker 1: decided and the the other domular vote that I think 645 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,320 Speaker 1: we're roting confidence in the popular vote. We're roting confidence 646 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,880 Speaker 1: in the system. So the Compact is more attractive to 647 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: me now that used to be. I'm a market guy. 648 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: That's what I like about the Republican Party, and in 649 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 1: the markets of votes. You know, we've created a party 650 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 1: where we've lost six of the last seven contests, so 651 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 1: we've we've succeeded under the rules because of the electoral college. 652 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,200 Speaker 1: But I'm not sure building a system where you're not 653 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 1: trying to get the most votes is a good thing. 654 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: So I'm kind of warming to the What do you 655 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:32,240 Speaker 1: think of this tweet by Donald Trump, uh this week 656 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 1: where he said I won the popular vote if you 657 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:39,399 Speaker 1: deduct the millions of people who voted illegally. Where I mean, 658 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 1: don't we always heard that from Republicans and there's no 659 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: basis for that assertion. Well, you had me to you 660 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: went into the Republican thing at the end, and I 661 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: like the quack noise. I haven't heard that from Trump. Look, 662 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 1: I thought it was beneath the office of president. I 663 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,280 Speaker 1: was deeply disappointed with it, and it was absolutely factually wrong, 664 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,560 Speaker 1: and reacquainting the president elect with the truth will be 665 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 1: a big part of hopefully what a competent staff I 666 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 1: will be able to do. I mean, both parties have 667 00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 1: played the legitimacy game against each other, but look, it 668 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: was wrong and he should be called out for Well, 669 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: I think you just did that. I have to ask 670 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: you before you go, because I know you have to 671 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: scoot about the role of the press. What did the 672 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 1: press do wrong? And how does the press make it right? Um? 673 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,279 Speaker 1: And and under the circumstances, given that Donald Trump is 674 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 1: proving to be as unconventional president elect as he was 675 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,960 Speaker 1: a candidate, how can these two entities get along or 676 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: should they not be getting along at all? It feels 677 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:35,399 Speaker 1: like a big mess to me, Mike, and I don't 678 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,320 Speaker 1: know what to make of it. Yeah, it is a mess. 679 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: I mean, I worked there, and so I see a 680 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: lot of journalists work really hard to try to get 681 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: the story right. The problem is, we've had this crossover 682 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: of pop culture. And I've seen it before. I work 683 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,919 Speaker 1: for Arnold Schwarzenegger when you ran for governor of California here, 684 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 1: so it's not new to have kind of famous people 685 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,719 Speaker 1: from the world of entertainment move into politics. But this 686 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: was at a whole new level. And I think on 687 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: one hand, you have the economics of news where the 688 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:08,839 Speaker 1: more seasoned, older experience reporters have been pushed out and young, hardworking, 689 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,359 Speaker 1: ambitious reporters who tend to though traveling a herd linked 690 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,720 Speaker 1: by their Twitter accounts um have have emerged, and so 691 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,840 Speaker 1: the coverage is fast, but not necessarily smart and ring wise. 692 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: The other weakness I think the media has is to 693 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:28,360 Speaker 1: cover politics like sports, and it's all scorekeeping, it's all coaches, 694 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 1: poll um, it's all these damn poles. You know. The 695 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: polls are a weird thing where the media creates the 696 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: story and then covers it. And now we find out 697 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 1: a lot of the state polls were wrong. So I 698 00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:42,800 Speaker 1: think the media is obsession with process and the celebritization 699 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: of consultants, all that stuff they could step back from. 700 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: I mean, the last thing I'd say, and I've I've 701 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 1: said this publicly and again. I you know, I worked there, 702 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 1: so maybe I'm part of it. But whenever I was 703 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 1: on television at NBC, I tried to tamp down this 704 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 1: instinct that every day is the Hindenburg explosion. Everything that 705 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: happens is a most important thing in the campaign, because 706 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,320 Speaker 1: you know, the more heat, the more eyeballs, the commerce 707 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 1: of it. I get it, we get paid. They have 708 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 1: to sell you know, cable rights and ads to do it. 709 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 1: But every day is not the most important day in 710 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 1: the campaign, and so that that velocity craze, that that 711 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:21,560 Speaker 1: flashing lights and exclamation points. Um, it makes the really 712 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 1: important stuff get lost. Because if everything is important, then nothing. 713 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: So it's hard to search for truth, isn't it when 714 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 1: everybody has their own version of it? No? Absolutely well, 715 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,720 Speaker 1: And even if the mainstream media gets better at bringing 716 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 1: real reporting and perspective to these stories, the voters that 717 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,280 Speaker 1: matter in a lot of these elections aren't. Aren't watching 718 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,399 Speaker 1: that right? And the interesting fact we had this year, 719 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,960 Speaker 1: that power of digital media to be ubiquitous has been 720 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 1: around for a while, but now we had organized efforts 721 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 1: to put fake, lying news through the unfiltered world of 722 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,720 Speaker 1: social media, some of it a lot of it coming 723 00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: from our good friends over in Russia. I mean I 724 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,359 Speaker 1: read half of these emails in the original Russian and uh, 725 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,799 Speaker 1: it is troubling because it was we now know from 726 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,680 Speaker 1: our own intelligence services there was a real effort to 727 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: screw with the dialogue of our election, particularly through social media, 728 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,480 Speaker 1: by countries that are geopolitical rivals. And uh, that's the 729 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,800 Speaker 1: problem with the Internet. Everything can go everywhere for free, 730 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: and you can get all kinds of information, but there's 731 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: no filter, there're no editor Why don't people find this 732 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:28,080 Speaker 1: more upsetting? You know, the role that Russia might have 733 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 1: played in in the election process. It's doesn't seem like 734 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:36,000 Speaker 1: people are taking it that seriously. Yeah, I don't know. 735 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:37,839 Speaker 1: It troubles me a lot. The only thing I can 736 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,359 Speaker 1: say is, when we make our politics a reality show 737 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:48,320 Speaker 1: with reality show candidates, trivia being screamed seven um, instant 738 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: snappoles and kind of a postmodern eye roll to the 739 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: whole thing, we take the stakes down. And when the 740 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 1: stakes are down, why do you care? And that is 741 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 1: the real danger. I think of this new style of 742 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 1: kind of politics light and uh, it could we could 743 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,640 Speaker 1: pay a price, or it could be a phase and 744 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,360 Speaker 1: there'll be a reaction against it, and the next campaign 745 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,319 Speaker 1: will be the opposite of this one because people will 746 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 1: decide they didn't like what they got that that's the 747 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: open question to me. Or it could just be that 748 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 1: the Clinton supporters were very troubled by the Putin bromance, 749 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 1: the Trump supporters either didn't believe it or bought Trump's 750 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: excuses for it, and and we all kind of move 751 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 1: forward from there. It's it's, you know, one side believes 752 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: x the other side believes negative X. Yeah, it could be, 753 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,120 Speaker 1: but I just think when you when you add clowns 754 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,839 Speaker 1: shoes to a campaign, you take the reason to take 755 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: things seriously away. What do you predict for the mid terms? Micers, 756 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 1: It just too early to tell. Well, you know, in 757 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,440 Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen there are a lot of Republican state 758 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,920 Speaker 1: selecting senators. So the traditional analysis would be Republicans should 759 00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: have a really great two thousand eighteen and building on 760 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,839 Speaker 1: their center majority. I would say one, in the modern era, 761 00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: beware traditional analysis. Although the bography, oh it does favor 762 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 1: the Republicans. And two, there's no doubt that in the 763 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 1: Blue States the sleeping giant has been awoken of angry Democrats. 764 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,279 Speaker 1: Uh So I have a feeling two thousand eighteen to 765 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 1: be a real epic battle. And why I would handicap 766 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 1: the Republicans is having the advantage. We got to see 767 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 1: what President elect Trump does for two years and how 768 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: he manages his new stewardship of the Republican brand. And 769 00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,880 Speaker 1: that's a big question. Mike Murphy, We've been looking forward 770 00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 1: to this for many many weeks. Were so thrilled to 771 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 1: have you on our podcast and so excited that you 772 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: have your own, cleverly called radio Free gop um. Are 773 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,359 Speaker 1: you enjoying doing a podcast, Mike, You know, I've had 774 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:41,880 Speaker 1: a lot of fun with it. I put it on 775 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: a hiatus for a while because I didn't think it 776 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: was right to be complaining about the president elector we 777 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: give him a chance to succeed. But as I tell people, 778 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,640 Speaker 1: I have buried the resistance transmitter in the secret location, 779 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,400 Speaker 1: and it can always be dug up and reignited, so 780 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,239 Speaker 1: maybe it'll come back. But yeah, I enjoyed a lot, 781 00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,200 Speaker 1: and I enjoy listening to this podcast. Thank you for 782 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: having me, Thanks Mike, Thanks as always to Gianna Palmer 783 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,520 Speaker 1: for producing the show and Jared O'Connell for engineering and 784 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,360 Speaker 1: mixing it. Thanks to Mark Phillips for our theme music. 785 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:16,760 Speaker 1: Remember you can also email us at comments at Currik 786 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:20,800 Speaker 1: podcast dot com. You can find me on social media 787 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 1: at goldsmith Be on Twitter. You can follow Katie at 788 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 1: at Katie Currik on Twitter and Instagram, and Katie dot 789 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:36,040 Speaker 1: Kurk on Snapchat. She's ubiquitous. Best of all, you can 790 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: rate and review us on iTunes. Don't forget to subscribe 791 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,280 Speaker 1: to the show as well. It really helps other listeners 792 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,919 Speaker 1: to find it, so we'll talk to you next time, 793 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,280 Speaker 1: and please let us know your questions for Valerie. Jared, 794 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:56,880 Speaker 1: thanks so much, Thanks for listening everyone. I always wanted 795 00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,800 Speaker 1: to be a contestant on the dating game well, helping 796 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 1: us to make sense of politics instead of while helming. 797 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:05,959 Speaker 1: That was such a fake laugh