1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: Podcast play good. 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 2: Welcome You've arrived at the Taking a Walk podcast, where 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 2: host Buzz Night explores music history with industry insiders. This 4 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 2: podcast can be found at Apple, Spotify, iHeart the Podcast Playground, 5 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcast. Today, Buzz talks with 6 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 2: record producer extraordinaire Jack Douglas. Jack is a legend who 7 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 2: has worked with John Lennon, Aerosmith, Cheap Trick, and so 8 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 2: many others. Enjoined Jack Douglas on Taking a Walk. 9 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 3: Well, Jack, how did you first know that music had 10 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 3: sunk its meat hooks into you and would never let go? 11 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: I guess when I was about four or five years old. 12 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: You know, my parents they listened to a lot of music. 13 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: They weren't musical themselves, but they listened to this. So 14 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: there was always a ton of music in my house, 15 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: in the Bronx, in our apartment was I was totally 16 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: into you know, getting like you know, listening to how 17 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: much is that Dog in the window? And I also loved, like, 18 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: I mean, these are seventy eights I'm talking about. I 19 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: also loved like all of the story books that came 20 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: out Bugs Bunny or Stephen and Tyler and I talked 21 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: about this, we had the same collection of the Tortoise 22 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: and the Hair and Bozo under the Sea. That was 23 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: a favorite of both of ours. So I was into 24 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 1: music and storytelling at a very early age. And my 25 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: dad worked in a freight yard in Hunt's Point in 26 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: the Bronx. He decided that because they had a nice 27 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: console in the living room, that they listened to their music. 28 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: My dad listened to opera and my mom listens to 29 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: what was then called the race music, basically blues and 30 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: R and B, and so it was a good contrast. 31 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: Plus you know the pop stuff that was on the 32 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: radio at that's on Big Band and Bing Crosby and 33 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: Frank Sinatra and all those folks. But my dad got 34 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: to you got to hint that a a train was 35 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: coming in, and on the one of the trains coming 36 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: in from Chicago was a bunch of electronic equipment, and 37 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: so you know, they Tilford regularly. I mean, that was 38 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: like part of the perks of working in a freight yard. 39 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: And he decided that he was going to get me 40 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: my own record player so that I could stop putting 41 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 1: these records on their console in the living room. And 42 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: and so he went in the middle of the night 43 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: and he got uh. He saw webcor of Chicago on 44 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: a box said record figure, said record players, who stashed 45 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: it and he brought it home for my birthday. I 46 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: think it was maybe I was six or seven, somewhere 47 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: in there, I don't And anyway, he put it under 48 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: my bed and then came in to wish me happy 49 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: birthday and he said, present under your bed. I looked 50 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: under it and I pulled it out and unwrapped it, 51 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: and both my father and I were like, what the 52 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: hell is this? It was a tape recorder. It wasn't 53 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: it wasn't a record player. It was a tape recorder, 54 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: a web cores, a small one. And we got and 55 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: we read the instruction manual, and we went down to 56 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: Canal Street and bought a bunch of tape, and I 57 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 1: started recording TV themes, which I really loved off the television. 58 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: There were all these great themes I love, Lucy, and 59 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: I remember every one of them so well, Abing Gistello 60 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: and I mean, all these shows going in my head, 61 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: Highway patrol, drag Net. I would record these things and 62 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: listen to them. I knew I was definitely in their music. Also, 63 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: also the thing that I noticed that my parents noticed too, 64 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: is that they would take me to see movies that 65 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: were way over my head because I was a kid. 66 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: But you went to the movies on a regular basis 67 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 1: back in those days. And I could come out of 68 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 1: the theater and sing the main themes to the movies 69 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: the melody lines in the right key as well, so 70 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: they kind of knew something was going on. And I 71 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: would I would record street sounds that hang that we 72 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,160 Speaker 1: lived near an elevated subway, and I would record the 73 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: train gone by and feedback and all kinds of weirdness. 74 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 1: I like to stick the microphone down my mom's old 75 00:04:54,320 --> 00:05:00,159 Speaker 1: vacuum cleaner tube and record those sounds and then and 76 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: then listened to the back at the slower speed. And 77 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: my dad once he said to me, I hit these 78 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: funky mono headphones on and you know, for like a radio. Anyway. 79 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: He said to me, what are you listening to? One 80 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 1: day and I said, oh, I'm making my own music. Dad. 81 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 1: He said, oh, let me listen. I was listening pretty loud, 82 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: and he put them on. It was the vacuum cleaner. 83 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: He threw threw it down. He said, he said, that's 84 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: not music. I said it is to me. That's music 85 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: to me, And so he figured, I've got this music 86 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: then going on, And maybe a month or so later, 87 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: apparently a silvertone series acoustic guitar fell off a freight 88 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: car and he gave it to me, along with a 89 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: Melbay chord book, and he said, now you can make music. 90 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 1: And I learned how to play, and so I was 91 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: in it from real early and studied music in high school, 92 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: went to a high school that specialized in arts and science, 93 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: study theory and composition. Ended up playing in rock bands 94 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: and I was off and running. 95 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 3: You actually played in a folk band associated with Bobby 96 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 3: Kennedy in sixty four. 97 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: Tell me about that. I was writing his campaign songs 98 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: when he was running for the Senate. I mean, that 99 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: was just an oddball thing, you know. I was really young, 100 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: fifteen or sixteen, and I was doing the thing in 101 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 1: the village, you know, where you bust in the street 102 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: or if you could get into a place where you 103 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: didn't have to be over eighteen, say eighteen was the 104 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: drinking age. I would get in and play for whatever, 105 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 1: basically traditional folk songs, singing them. And this guy came 106 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: up to me and he said, hey, you write songs too, 107 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: And I said yes, and he said, i'd you like 108 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: a job for the summer. Oh. By the way, this 109 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: particular guy came to a Young Democrats meeting that I 110 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: was playing at, was like you know, at near NYU. 111 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: So I said, how much does it pay, this summer job? 112 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: And he said, well, he doesn't pay anything really, but 113 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: you get to travel a bit and you'll eat and 114 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: you'll have some fun. Well that was, you know, playing 115 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: these rallies for for JFK. I actually ended up playing 116 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: the last one at Madison Square Garden following the Ronetts. 117 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: So you know, one of my claims to fame is 118 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: I played at the garden, the Old Garden, and that 119 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: was I think that was the Democratic National Convention that 120 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: was held that years. That was. That was a good 121 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: start for me, and I learned a lot about politics 122 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: and turning traditional folk songs into campaign songs. 123 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 3: You've masteredly figured out the art of collaboration. Did you 124 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 3: learn that when you went to the Institute of Audio Research? 125 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 2: There? 126 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, not at all. Collaboration began as 127 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: soon as I got my own rock band together. You know, 128 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: it was not I made sure that the people were 129 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: in the band were real contributors create even though we 130 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 1: were young. These were guys that had most of them 131 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: a little older than me, but they all had good 132 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: ideas and and and then I went on the road. 133 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:55,719 Speaker 1: After I came back from Liverpool, I went on the 134 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: road for years and played with a ton of people 135 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: from the Angels, my boyfriend back and I would play 136 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: either guitar or bass, play with Chuck Berry for a while. 137 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 1: You know, I toured, I was. I was on three 138 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: different major labels, Columbia, Epic, and Bell as a writer 139 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: and as an artist. The last label that I was 140 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: on was the was t Neck and my band was 141 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: being produced by the Isley Brothers. And after that is 142 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: where I made the decision to go to the other 143 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: side of the glass and enrolled in the Institute of 144 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: Audio Research and also got a job at Record Plant 145 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: as the janitor. They both happened around the exact same 146 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: time as my day job. I was a motorcycle messenger 147 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: in Manhattan. I was living in the East Village, but 148 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: that paid great money because I would I would ride 149 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: that bike all through winter, and it meant that the 150 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: nights I could gig with the band, so it was. 151 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: You know, all I had to do was call up 152 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: and say the dispatcher and say I'm on. And I 153 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: had this Norton commando and in the winter I'd have 154 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: knobby wheels on it so I could get around in 155 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: the snow. And then the winter paid great money, so 156 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: it was like really cool. 157 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 3: But when you became the janitor, you must have had 158 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 3: your sights on becoming a recording engineer. 159 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: Well I did. In fact, I wanted to be a 160 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: producer as well and a composer. And the funny thing was, 161 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,959 Speaker 1: while I was the janitor at night, I was also 162 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: a client because I was scoring the original ABC after 163 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: School Specials for the producer Danny Wilson. And so Danny's 164 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: still active, it's great. But I went to work producing 165 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: music for his show, which was the it was called 166 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 1: Over seven and it was the original ABC after School Specialists, 167 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,319 Speaker 1: And so I at night I would be a client 168 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 1: and in the daytime I was the janitor, but I 169 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: was you know, I would beg other engineers if I 170 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: could just sit in on their sessions so I could 171 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: learn between and I worked my way up from general worker. 172 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: Actually after a janitor you're just car and stuff around 173 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: and Record Plant also ran a school for us, you know, 174 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: guys that were on the way up. So I learned 175 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 1: a lot there and I became a tape librarian, and 176 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: I went into the editing booth. I was an editor, 177 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: then I was an assistant engineer, doing tons of stuff, 178 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: you know, working with great rock bands that were coming 179 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: through Record Plan, and also early mornings, I was doing 180 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:59,319 Speaker 1: jingles for the Forward and Airlines and you know all 181 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: those big commercials when you had the big orchestra dates 182 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 1: and the rhythm section. And I was also doing artists demos, 183 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: so I did all of Billy Joel's demos for him 184 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,719 Speaker 1: to get his deal at Columbia. I did Patty the 185 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: Bell demos, and these are four track, so they would 186 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: want to come in and listen to what it sounded 187 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: like before they went in and invested in the big 188 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: rooms to do it. And that's a great learning experience 189 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: when you have to record all this stuff for track, 190 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: especially if you've got a big rhythm section. That's you know, 191 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 1: I was in a hurry. It didn't take me long. Honestly. 192 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 1: They would let me at midnight. They would let me 193 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: come in and record whoever I wanted for free. You know, 194 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: like local bands. And I really made my bones by 195 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: bringing in groups and recording them and learning how to 196 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: do it right. 197 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 3: What a fascinating time it must have been in that area. 198 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 3: It's still a fascinating area that whole the whole scene. 199 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 3: And since this podcast is called taking a Walk, I 200 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 3: have to ask you, even though we're virtual, so did 201 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,640 Speaker 3: you ever get sort of in a creative block where 202 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 3: things were kind of jammed up? And would you just 203 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 3: go for a walk in the village to free your mind? 204 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: No? No, I didn't have time for that at all. No. 205 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: If I had a block, I had to work it 206 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: out while it was behind the board. But I mean 207 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: I made some terrible blunders. I was recording Paddy Labelle's 208 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: demos and a guy put these old boards, especially the 209 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: four track boards were all tubes and they had giant 210 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: transformers and the bass player and I thought, man, I'm 211 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: doing this. This demo sounds so good because there's a 212 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: full rhythm section and her and you know I and 213 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: I said, and you have to do everything live. You 214 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,319 Speaker 1: have to do your reverb or your compression. Everything has 215 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 1: to be done on the fly right away because there's 216 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: no going back to it. And so I'm doing this 217 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, wow, I'm really good here, and the 218 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: bass player came in. I couldn't wait to play it 219 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: for Patty because I thought she's not even going to 220 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: have to do a master this. And the bass player 221 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: came around behind me and he put his beer next 222 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: to me. I didn't see it in the remote for 223 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: the tape machine. It was in between me and the 224 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: remote for the tape machine, and I want to hit 225 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: the remote and hit the beer, and the beer went 226 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: into the transformers and flame shot out, and literally I 227 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: burned the board down. The flames were coming out of 228 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: the faders. I destroyed the room that the board was gone, 229 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: and I got fired immediately. The owner, Chris Stone, came 230 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: and said, you're fired. Patty LaBelle went to him and 231 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: said it wasn't his fault all. And Roy Sakala, who 232 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: was the chief engineer, who quite famous guy. He was 233 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: my mentor. He said to Christone, he said, why don't 234 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: we listen to the tape, And because the tape was 235 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: still there, he said, list listen to the tape because 236 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: if it's good, he'll make more money for the studio 237 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: than that board cost, which was on its way out anyway, 238 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: They listened to the tape and the next day Chris 239 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: Stone called me up. I was like, oh, my career 240 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: is over. I'm going to do so this is terrible. 241 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: Christone called me up and he said, well, they decided 242 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: to give you another chance. And he said, but we're 243 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: going to give you a pay cut from sixty five 244 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: dollars a week to sixty dollars a week. I said, fine, 245 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: So I got but you know, you you trip along 246 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: the way for sure, you know, but yeah, I never 247 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: had time to go. I mean, for me, I was 248 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: on the course that I wanted to be on. I 249 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: was learning by working as an assistant, working on projects 250 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: that had either lousy producers are really good ones, and 251 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: I would be taking notes on this works, this doesn't work. 252 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: And I was an assistant on American Pie and I 253 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: watched how all these bits and pieces of that song 254 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: were edited together to make that masterpiece. Now that works. 255 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 1: So I mean I worked with a lot of producers 256 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: along the way as both an assistant and then as 257 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: an engineer, which I became like the rock guy, probably 258 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: because I played music rock for so long. But those 259 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: notes really helped me understanding what worked with an artist 260 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: and what didn't. 261 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 3: So as you were in that recording engineer mode there, 262 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 3: I wanted to get your reaction to some folks that 263 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 3: you work with that we're pretty amazing. I'm going to 264 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 3: start with Miles Davis. 265 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: Well, I was. I mean, first of all, he was 266 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: great in the studio, not not at all, be treated 267 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: everybody great, the fellow musicians, the crew. Mostly I assisted 268 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: on those sessions. I assisted on Miles, I assisted on 269 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 1: Nina Simone because Jay Messina was the jazz guy, and 270 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: Jay would always bring me in to do these jazz states, 271 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: Mike McNairy record Brothers, and so I got to you know, 272 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: I be working hand in hand with him on these 273 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: great sessions. But I was, you know, a giant Miles fan, 274 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: John Coltry fan, and and I was, you know, I 275 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: didn't know what to expect. You know, you always hear 276 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,360 Speaker 1: Miles turns his back on you, and Miles, you know, 277 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 1: Miles was the sweetest guy in the studio because he 278 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: understood that in the studio probably unlike a live performance, 279 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: that is a collaborative situation and the crew is important. 280 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 1: So he was just really sweet. And he loved Jamesina 281 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: because they wore the same shoe sizes, and j would 282 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: always come in with like a really cool pair of shoes, 283 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: and Miles would say, Jay, hey, j I can't do 284 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: his voice, but you would ask Jay to pick him 285 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 1: up a pair of those shoes when he was at 286 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: the store, and j would deliver them over to his 287 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: brownstone on the West Side near where Jay lived. He 288 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: was great. Nina Simone scared me working with Nina. I 289 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 1: would be, you know, putting the setting a mic and 290 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: interview because you'd be singing and playing piano and she 291 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: just look at me like, are you sure that's in 292 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: the right place that you give me a looking? Well, 293 00:18:53,600 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: I think it is the fun stuff. Who else? James 294 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: Gang again, I was assisting on James Gang's sessions. They 295 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,399 Speaker 1: were brothers. They brought the mother in one time. I 296 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: guess they were from Indiana or something like that. The 297 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: funny thing is, you know, recently I've become really good 298 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: friends with, well the last few years, with Joe Walsh. 299 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: When I'm out in la I see him quite often 300 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: because he works with Ringo and I see Ringo quite often. 301 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:33,159 Speaker 1: I got to talking to him and I said, you 302 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: remember that album you were doing that record James Gang 303 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: and he said sure, I said I was. I was 304 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: the other engineer and he said, you gotta be shoitting me. Wow, 305 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:48,719 Speaker 1: that's crazy. Yeah, I said, yeah, that was me. And 306 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: that was Bill Simsick was engineer producer. I guess Bill 307 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: went on to work with the Eagles. In fact, he 308 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: invited me down to Miami to listen to when he 309 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: had this hotel that he had converted and Coconut Grove 310 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: into a studio. He can't be invited me down to 311 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: listen to what he was doing. Yeah, that was fun 312 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: and those guys were very cool and very professional in 313 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: the studio. 314 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 3: Another one that I love to mention is the one 315 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,360 Speaker 3: and only Alice Cooper. 316 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: Well, uh that that was pretty cool because I loved 317 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 1: working with Bob Ezram. Bob was He was a funny caddy. 318 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 1: He was and he is extremely talented musician and arranger 319 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: and writer. And he was a guy that I learned 320 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: both pro and con from because he had a he had. 321 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 1: His talent was so supreme that his ideas were always good, 322 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 1: but there was never a lot of room for the 323 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: for the band, in particular Alice's band, their ideas. It 324 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: was like Bob laid down the law and that's how 325 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,719 Speaker 1: you did it, and they were used to that working 326 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 1: with him, and so I thought, and I don't think 327 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: I can ever ever do it that way, but and 328 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: you know, I'm not as talented as Bob, but I 329 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: can work around it. But Alice sessions were great, and 330 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: I worked on Schools Out and Billion Dollar Babies with Bob. 331 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: And then after doing the Dolls album, the first album, 332 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: Bob came to me and he said, you know you're 333 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 1: because Todd didn't show up very much and I had 334 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 1: a good relationship with the band. We would keep that going. 335 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: And Bob told me, he said, you know you're you're 336 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: producing this now as well you should be producing. And 337 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 1: so I'm going to give you the next Alice album 338 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 1: to produce because it's the it's the last group album, 339 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: and then Alice is going solo with me, and he said, 340 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: I don't like funerals, and so you're going to produce it, 341 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: which was Muscle of Love. They put Jack Richardson in 342 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: there with me too to keep an eye on me. 343 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 3: And what would bring your first encounter with cheap Trip. 344 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: That was I had relatives in Waukeshaw, Wisconsin. My brother 345 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: in law. He said to me, you've got to come 346 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: see this band that's playing at the Sunset Bowl bowling 347 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: Alley in Waukeshaw. They're really good. And I thought, God, 348 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: my brother in laws taste of music is just terrible. 349 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,360 Speaker 1: But what the hell, I got nothing else to do. 350 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: So we went to the bowling alley and Cheap Trick 351 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 1: was playing, and they would I mean, they knocked me out. 352 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 1: They were incredible. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. 353 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: And I had known about them because they were already 354 00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: making noise, not signed, but already making noise around the Midwest. 355 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 1: I told them that right then and there. I said, 356 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: I think I can get you a deal and I'd 357 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: like to produce you, and they said okay. So the 358 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 1: next day I called up my palate Epic Records, and said, 359 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: get out here and see this band, and if you 360 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,479 Speaker 1: don't sign them, I'll take them to RCA. And because 361 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: my reputation with CBS Records, which was Columbia and Epic, 362 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: because my relationship was good with them, he came out 363 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: and they were signed shortly after the Epic Records, and 364 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: shortly after that I was out there. We did a 365 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: quick pre production. Mostly they had so much material, was 366 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 1: crazy insane amount of material. It was just a matter 367 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 1: of making sure it was recordable, edited a little bit 368 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 1: here and there. You know. It wasn't like I had 369 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: to do any co writing with them at all. They 370 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: were really self contained in that department. I didn't do 371 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: very much arranging, maybe on the overdubs, things like Mandocello 372 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: or I mean, we knocked off I think thirty basic 373 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: tracks in two weeks when we went into record play 374 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: and then you know, I said, well, these these songs 375 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,120 Speaker 1: will put on the back burner because I don't think 376 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: they quite fit on this album, which the first album 377 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: is a lot of social and political statements in it. 378 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 1: I thought, we're going to go to college radio with this, 379 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: and we'll put these other ones on the back burner. 380 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: Other Go Go Girls, I Want You to Want Me, Surrender. 381 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: We'll put those on the back burner for the next record. Unfortunately, 382 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: the next record I was doing Aerosmithy Draw the Line. 383 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,160 Speaker 1: That took a year to do, so I never got 384 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: to them to the second album whish I had, and 385 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: I didn't get back to them until Budacom, But that 386 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: proved to be pretty good. Fifteen million records and still 387 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 1: still selling. Tell me about your encounter with the Who 388 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: well who were coming in to do. I think it 389 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 1: was called the Lighthouse Project something like that, and it 390 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: wasn't Who's Next, but it was the material that was 391 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:19,399 Speaker 1: going to make up Who's Next. And so they wanted 392 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 1: to record all this material, and they said, give us 393 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: your chief engineer. They were digging around the northeast at 394 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: the time, but give us your chief engineer. And so 395 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 1: the chief engineer was a guy named Jack Adams, and 396 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 1: he was not a rock engineer, but he was the 397 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 1: chief engineer. He was an R and B guy, and 398 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,959 Speaker 1: he didn't like rock music very much at all, and 399 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 1: so knowing that, they put me on the date to 400 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: assist him. And so I see, you know, the equipment 401 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: came into the room, all drums, and I set up 402 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,359 Speaker 1: like I was setting up for a big rock dack 403 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: like Mountain or one of those kinds of dates where 404 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: it's going to be heavy and loud, and individually miked 405 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 1: all the tom toms and stuff that Jack normally would do, 406 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: because an R and B session is very different. And 407 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: then the band came in and I said, let's Jack 408 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: Adams wasn't there yet, and I said, you guys want 409 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: to roll something so I could get the room totally 410 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: set up? Sure, and so I rolled tape and they 411 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:43,159 Speaker 1: started jamming, and they started jamming on Baby, Don't Do It, 412 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: Don't Break Your Heart? And I said to hey, do 413 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: you mind if I get a friend of mine to 414 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: commit and jam with you guys. It was Leslie West, 415 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: who was in the next room, and so they said, no, 416 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: we love Leslie West. So I went and I got 417 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,640 Speaker 1: Leslie and he came in and he jammed. I think 418 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: that particular jam session is available Leslie West and the 419 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:09,720 Speaker 1: Who playing maybe Don't Do It? Recorded? It sounded really good, 420 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: sounded like the Who. I got it all tuned up. 421 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: Jack came into the room. Finally. I love Jack Adams. 422 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: He was a fabulous R and B guy and later 423 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: disco too. He did. But he came into the room 424 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 1: and he said, oh, what is this? And I said, 425 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: you know, it's the Who. He's like? Who? Why? Who? 426 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: I'm like. The last album Jack was Tommy. It was unbelievable, huge, 427 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 1: It wasn't into it that much. They came into the 428 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: into the booth and they said, let's hear that back 429 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: what we just jammed, so we know it sounds like 430 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: So I got to spun the tape backwards and and 431 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,560 Speaker 1: they listened to it, and Pete went over and franked 432 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: Now the big Westlake monitor in that room, you know, 433 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: five hundred watts on each side. Here, fabulous sound. He 434 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 1: cranked the monitors right up loud, and I could see 435 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: that Jack was very Jack I was very uncomfortable with that. 436 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: And he was like, oh my god, no you And 437 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:22,160 Speaker 1: then they went back out in the room and Jack 438 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 1: said to me, I can't I can't do this. Kit 439 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: Lambert was producing. By the way, it was a crazy 440 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: maniac but I love I loved watching him. I learned 441 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: a lot as he would conduct the band like it 442 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,240 Speaker 1: was an orchestra because his father was a very famous 443 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: conductor in England. So Jack said to me, I can't 444 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,800 Speaker 1: do this. This is this is awful. There's no thru 445 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: there's no soul. So I said, well, you know, you 446 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,959 Speaker 1: get through it, Jack, don't worry. He said, no, I'm 447 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: not going to get through it at Oh you're going 448 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: to get through it, huh he said, yeah. He goes. 449 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: I want you to go into the production room, which 450 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: was basically in the control there's a wall. SEP bring it, 451 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: he said, call me up on the phone, name at 452 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: the board and tell me something terrible has happened that 453 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: I will have to leave. I said, why don't you 454 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: just tell them something? He goes, no, I need to 455 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: react to this. So Jack Adams lived on a houseboat 456 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: and on the seventy ninth Street Pier, Hudson River. So 457 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: I called him up and I was really quiet. You 458 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: could hear me in the room if you care to listen. 459 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: And the phone rang and Jack picked up. But I 460 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: said Jack, He said yeah, He said, I have something 461 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: really terrible to tell you. Pete Townsend was still in 462 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: the room, and Jack kind of was obvious that he 463 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: was loud, and he went something terrible. What happened? Now? 464 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: Pete and Keith they're looking at him. And I say 465 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: to Jack, your houseboat's on fire and it's sinking in 466 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: the Hudson River. And then he repeatd that my houseboats 467 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: on fire, and it's thinking that, and then he kind 468 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: of put in like in quotations, I lived in a houseboat. 469 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: And then he said my dog. He didn't have a dog, 470 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: but he threw that in for a little extra stuff. 471 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 1: I have to go. The other engineer will take over. 472 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: I took the reins. The first song that we recorded 473 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: was I Won't Get Fooled Again live vocals, and it 474 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: was hair raising, and we recorded on ten tracks. At 475 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,959 Speaker 1: some point the front office heard that I was in charge, 476 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: and they were a little worried, but they sent somebody 477 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: down to keep an eye on me, and they sent 478 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: me an assistant. And it was good. Exactly. Got to 479 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: be really good friends with those guys. And after the 480 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: gigs they would say, this would be like one o'clock 481 00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: in the morning and they go and now we're going 482 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: to go out and have some fun. Okay, you're going 483 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: with us, kid, Okay. So I would go out with 484 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,840 Speaker 1: them and we would meet at the Navarro Hotel, which 485 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: was on Central Park South, small hotel, boutique hotel. They 486 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: had the whole ninth floor, which was maybe eight rooms. 487 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: This way it kept them away from regular clients, and 488 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: Keith and Pete had the two front suites which faced 489 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: Central Park beautiful and on the ninth floor. Now this 490 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: is a building that had high ceilings, and so I 491 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: would go there and we would meet in Pete's room 492 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 1: and then go out just some after hours place or 493 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: just you know, they knew all these spots. I was 494 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: in New Yorker. I had no idea these studies existed. 495 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 1: You know, they get a couple of limos and off 496 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: we'd go. But anyway, every night I would go up there. 497 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: He I mean, everybody came through the door into Pete Sweet, 498 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: but Keith would open the window on his suite and 499 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:11,200 Speaker 1: crawl across the ledge outside the building and then open 500 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: up Pete's window and climb in. This is like nine 501 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: very high floors, and no one thought that was unusual 502 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: except me. Everyone was like, hey, Keith, what are we 503 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: doing tonight? And I'd be like, oh my god, that's 504 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,280 Speaker 1: a little bit I saw. I ran into Pete at 505 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: SR at a rehearsal just a few years ago. He 506 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: was coming to a meeting and he had a girl 507 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: with him that he was producing, and I ran into him. 508 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: I said, hey, Pete, I mean it's been years, I said, 509 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: remember me and Jack? And he goes, yeah, Jack Douglas, 510 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, wow, spent a lifetime since I've seen you. 511 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: And I said yeah yeah. And he introduced me to 512 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: the artist that he was with, and he introduced me. 513 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: He said a thousand years ago, he said to her, 514 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: we worked with Jack and made him famous. Thanks, thanks, Pete. Thanks, 515 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 1: It's true, that's outstanding. Yeah. 516 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 3: So then it's nineteen sixty excuse me, nineteen seventy one. 517 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: Well, sixty nine is when I went to record plants 518 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 1: of the very first project, interestingly enough, that I worked 519 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: on as a general worker because we had the move 520 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: tapes was Woodstock. Can you imagine the van would pull 521 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 1: up with the tapes from the show that we're recorded live, 522 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: and then I would bring him to the various studios 523 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: where the artists were fixing the tapes. You ran into 524 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: Hendrix and Rosby, Still's Nasher all in there. It's amazing. 525 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, I'm in the right place here. But yeah, 526 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: go ahead, well, well excuse me. 527 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 3: Seventy one you would engineer, imagine one of the engineers. Yeah, 528 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 3: tell me about your first of a lifetime encounter with John. 529 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:09,439 Speaker 1: You know, first of all, I was an incredible Beatle fan, 530 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 1: had been for years, I mean just just short of fanatic, 531 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,800 Speaker 1: really loved them. I even went to Liverpool in sixty 532 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: five on a tramp steamer and bought Rubber Soul the 533 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 1: week it came out that winter November December, bought it 534 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 1: in Liverpool. I got deported for a lot of reasons 535 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: for playing in bands without a work permit, from escaping 536 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 1: from a ship, blah blah blah. I made a lot 537 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 1: of noise and I was in all the newspapers and 538 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,280 Speaker 1: even in the Mirror in London. I was stories about 539 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: my adventures. But I was on the front pages of 540 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 1: the Liverpool Inspection, in particular the Liverpool Echo, which is 541 00:34:54,400 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: the big newspaper in Liverpool. And I got deported in chains. 542 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: Really they want to take any chances that was going 543 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: to escape again. And that was in sixty five. So 544 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: now go forward so many years and I'm at record 545 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:17,760 Speaker 1: plant working and John is down the hall in another 546 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: room with everybody doing overdubs, and you know, working on Imagine. 547 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,120 Speaker 1: He'd come over from England where they'd done a bunch 548 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 1: of tracks and now they were doing some more tracks 549 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: and doing all the overdubs. My job, because I was 550 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,799 Speaker 1: a good editor, was down the hall in another small room, 551 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: was to edit these some of these tracks and prepare 552 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: them for more for multi tracking, because there were run 553 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,440 Speaker 1: eight tracks and they wanted to go to sixteen track. 554 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:54,399 Speaker 1: There were handwritten notes from John, you know, don't edit 555 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: the masters. Make sure you edit the copies that you're 556 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 1: going to make when you're going to edit here. Anyway, 557 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,439 Speaker 1: I was hearing most of the album before anybody else 558 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: was hearing, because I was editing and transferring. About four 559 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 1: or five days into this whole project, the door opens 560 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: and John comes into the room and nearly peeded myself 561 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: because I didn't think I would be having contact with him. 562 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,040 Speaker 1: I just thought I'm good enough having this gig as 563 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:28,359 Speaker 1: an editor. And he sits down. He says, okay, if 564 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,800 Speaker 1: I hang out in here, I'm just looking for a 565 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: place that's not so noisy. I knew he was, and 566 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:35,959 Speaker 1: I figured he was trying to get away from Phil 567 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: had a terrible reputation specter, that is. And so he 568 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,800 Speaker 1: sat on a couch on the other side of a console, 569 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: so I only could see his feet up on the 570 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: glass and cigarette smoke. And I said, I'm editing your stuff, 571 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: and he was like, yay, okay, thanks, so you're doing 572 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: a great job. He just kind of blew me off 573 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 1: and he sat there and smoked, and five minutes into 574 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,799 Speaker 1: this process of me working quietly, I said to him, 575 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,719 Speaker 1: I've been to Liverpool and his head popped up and 576 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: he said really. He said where are you from? And 577 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: I said, I'm born and raised in New York City, 578 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 1: So why would you want to go to Liverpool? Everybody 579 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 1: there wants to come here, including me, and you know 580 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 1: it's it's not a great place, not a tourist place. 581 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: I said, well, I was a musician, and you know, 582 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,840 Speaker 1: I really wanted to swim into Mersey. I wanted to 583 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: know everything about the music scene there, and which was 584 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 1: really cool because I got to hang in the original 585 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 1: Caravin Club, which was amazing thing to do back then. 586 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: So he looked at me and he said, well, how 587 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 1: did that work out? And I said, well good and bad. 588 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: I said bad, I got deported, but good. I made 589 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 1: a lot of noise before I did. And he looked 590 00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: at me and he said, were you one of the 591 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: crazy Yanks that was in Homan newspapers? And I said, yeah, 592 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: that was me, because it's me and my buddy I 593 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 1: talked to going with me. Yeah, another guitar player. He said, 594 00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 1: you know, we looked at the pictures of these two 595 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,839 Speaker 1: guys on the front page of our newspaper the week 596 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: that we put out an album that should have been 597 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 1: just us all over the front page. Do these two 598 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: Yanks making all this noise in Liverpool? And I said, yeah, 599 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 1: that was me. And he said and in one of 600 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,239 Speaker 1: the pictures that was on the front page as my 601 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: guitar les Paul custom. He said to me, right, well, 602 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: he remembered that because that made an impression on them. 603 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,240 Speaker 1: He said to me, you still had that less Paul. 604 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: He said, no, it's a long gone. He said, I 605 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,319 Speaker 1: can't believe that. All the places I walk into and 606 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 1: there's this guy I'm meeting now that was someone that 607 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: you know, we laughed about, you know, in Liverpool and 608 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,359 Speaker 1: did all this stuff. He said, what are you doing? 609 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,879 Speaker 1: I said, like I said, I'm editing your stuff because 610 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:57,919 Speaker 1: you're an engineer. I said yes. He goes, okay, you're 611 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: on the project, said Yoko is going to know that 612 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 1: there's some deeper meaning in that's meeting you. You know. 613 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: After a session or two, he said, dude, where do 614 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,479 Speaker 1: you live? And I told him in the village. He said, 615 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,839 Speaker 1: we do too. We're on Bank Street. Let me give 616 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: you a ride home. And then one time on the 617 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 1: way down to the village, you see the only place 618 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 1: where we can get a late bite to eat, and 619 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 1: I said, sure, I know a million places where I 620 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: can get you in the back door. And suddenly he 621 00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 1: asked me for my phone number. He called me up. 622 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:27,920 Speaker 1: He said, I listen, I have to go to this 623 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,919 Speaker 1: party and there's going to be all these people there. 624 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 1: It was Abbie Hoffman and that crew. He said, just 625 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: come with me because I don't really know them, and 626 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: you can watch my back. Started hanging with him and 627 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,919 Speaker 1: we became friends, and then he said to me, listen, 628 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 1: I want you to do these Yoko records. Okay. So 629 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:49,719 Speaker 1: I met with Yoko and she said, what makes you 630 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 1: think you can do my records? And I said to her, 631 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: because I was really an avant guarde John Cage fan 632 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:59,759 Speaker 1: and all these ourgard jazz guys. And I said to her, 633 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,840 Speaker 1: because I don't care if when you play the piano 634 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,319 Speaker 1: you're inside it or outside of it. And she said, 635 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,399 Speaker 1: that's good. That's good. And so I did just all 636 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:15,400 Speaker 1: these records with her. Sometimes John would be producing them 637 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 1: or be sitting next to me while we did them. 638 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: It was a good run with her, and because of 639 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 1: that trust, that's why I ended up producing, because they 640 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:29,359 Speaker 1: both trusted me. While I was doing the Muscle of 641 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: Love album. We were out in La, which he told 642 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 1: me to do. He said, come out to La, your producer, 643 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 1: you can do it, or wherever you want. And Warners 644 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,839 Speaker 1: is in La, so bring it out there. I'm out there. 645 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 1: That was his lost weekend, and so I became one 646 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: of the original Hollywood vampires. I was doing that Nalyics too, 647 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,879 Speaker 1: whom you know I frequently. I drove the getaway car. 648 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: That was my gig, get them out of trouble. Interesting 649 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:02,279 Speaker 1: and I had a long relationship with him. I miss him, 650 00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: and I think the world is it would be a 651 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:06,240 Speaker 1: different place that he lived. 652 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,520 Speaker 3: If you could describe his creative process, what would it be. 653 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:18,120 Speaker 1: He worked on songs for months, if not years. He 654 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 1: had a germ. He would work on it. And you 655 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 1: know when you see that film he brought, he brought 656 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: the Jackson film. He brought stuff to the studio to 657 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: work on. Here's something I have. He always was preparing, 658 00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,320 Speaker 1: he was always writing. I mean some of the songs 659 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,760 Speaker 1: on Double Fantasy were years old that he had demoed 660 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:44,360 Speaker 1: numbers of times, and so he was well prepared. The 661 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 1: thing that he had no patience for lollygagging in the 662 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 1: studio you know, which is why he hated Phil. Phil 663 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:58,880 Speaker 1: would want, you know, fifty takes, whereas for me and 664 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 1: I would always have him do it live vocals. Frequently 665 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 1: within the first five takes. You had it, and he 666 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: knew it, and I knew it, and the musicians knew 667 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,400 Speaker 1: it as well. It wasn't and I was always a 668 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,840 Speaker 1: step ahead of him the whole time we were working, 669 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:19,560 Speaker 1: and so he loved that. He liked to be, you know, 670 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 1: somebody was always prepared for him to do what he 671 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:26,040 Speaker 1: wanted to do. And I think that's why we got along. 672 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,759 Speaker 1: In the last few years before he passed away, I 673 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: became very good friends with Jeff Emeric and he would 674 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,200 Speaker 1: be over my house for dinner. We would do mixes together. 675 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:39,759 Speaker 1: We had a lot of time when we talked about 676 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,280 Speaker 1: John and he said to me, I wish I knew 677 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,120 Speaker 1: the John that you talk about, because he knew the 678 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:52,960 Speaker 1: angry John from the Apparently he could get very angry 679 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 1: and the Beatle I know that alcohol didn't it was 680 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 1: not good for John at all, kind of you would 681 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 1: get angry that I saw while we were in California. 682 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 1: He was just he was just amazing. That whole summer 683 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 1: we were working on that record, and then later into 684 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 1: the fall, while we were doing Walking into Nice, you ran. 685 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 3: Into these guys from Boston in seventy four named Aarro Smith. 686 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:25,080 Speaker 3: How many How many years were shaved off of your 687 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,839 Speaker 3: life from beginning that ride with them? 688 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:33,200 Speaker 1: Ten years? Ten years were shaved off my life, not 689 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:39,960 Speaker 1: those years, but later years. I mean, I'm thirty years sober. 690 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,879 Speaker 1: But there's a there's a lot of you knows. As 691 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 1: their drug got used, yous got worse. I mean I 692 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,760 Speaker 1: was always like a straight guy, you know, I thought 693 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,759 Speaker 1: to keep this session together when it was over. When 694 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 1: the session was over, maybe I was smoking a joint 695 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 1: when it was over. But yeah, as their drug use 696 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:09,200 Speaker 1: got worse, they they exposed me to a few things 697 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 1: that later in my life became a problem. And then 698 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,799 Speaker 1: so yeah, I lost some time, but none of it 699 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:18,760 Speaker 1: while I was working with them. 700 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:24,160 Speaker 3: No, how often did crisis management enter into your job 701 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:25,560 Speaker 3: description working with them? 702 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:32,319 Speaker 1: It depends on what you call crisis management, you know, 703 00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:38,319 Speaker 1: get your wings toys in the attic rocks, they were 704 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:46,240 Speaker 1: all they were all really creative periods for the band, 705 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,719 Speaker 1: and they welcomed my input so that I was like 706 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,840 Speaker 1: a member of the band. We did months sometimes of 707 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 1: pre production, and it wasn't till we were doing draw 708 00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:02,120 Speaker 1: the Line that it became became a problem because they 709 00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 1: would stay in there. We were in what had been 710 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:10,520 Speaker 1: a nunnery upstate New York, like Westchester County actually, and 711 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,960 Speaker 1: they all had their own rooms, and frequently some of 712 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:15,920 Speaker 1: them wouldn't come out of their rooms for three or 713 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,879 Speaker 1: four days. That was the That was the crisis. As 714 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:25,160 Speaker 1: far as working with them or having fights or not 715 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:30,560 Speaker 1: so much. No, you know, I've always been the good politician. 716 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,720 Speaker 1: You know, my thing is listen to the band first. 717 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:37,520 Speaker 1: First of all. You know, my job is to make 718 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:42,279 Speaker 1: a band's dreams come true, you know, not mine. And 719 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,200 Speaker 1: you know they understood that. That's the way it was. 720 00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:48,839 Speaker 1: And so although we didn't have to talk about it, 721 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,319 Speaker 1: that's the way I approached all of that stuff with them. 722 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:55,400 Speaker 1: We worked hard together, you know. I mean, sure Stephen 723 00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,080 Speaker 1: would come in and say I could say that better, 724 00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:58,480 Speaker 1: and I was saying, I don't know if you can. 725 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:00,640 Speaker 1: But if he said he could say it better, I 726 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:04,640 Speaker 1: went with it. You co wrote Kings and Queens, didn't you. 727 00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:05,560 Speaker 2: Yes? 728 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,239 Speaker 1: Did you see that's at the point where the fan 729 00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:12,960 Speaker 1: wasn't writing. I mean I contributed a lot as a 730 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 1: writer previous to that, but I always thought that's my 731 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,520 Speaker 1: job as a producer. You know. People told me many 732 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,080 Speaker 1: years later that was a big mistake, but I don't. 733 00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:27,760 Speaker 1: I don't think so, because now every producer is a writer. 734 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:31,080 Speaker 1: You know. It's like that's where you get your publishing 735 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,520 Speaker 1: and blah blah blah blah. But at that point I 736 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,560 Speaker 1: had to start writing because they were losing their productivity. 737 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:41,520 Speaker 1: I like Kings and Queens. I think it's called Oh 738 00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,359 Speaker 1: I love that one. I love that too. 739 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,680 Speaker 3: That's a great one, but so many great ones. You know, 740 00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:50,560 Speaker 3: being in Boston for so long and part of the 741 00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:54,080 Speaker 3: Boston scene, you got a big fan of Airosmith right here. 742 00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:59,319 Speaker 1: Oh great, Yeah, I'm still a big fan. I'm the 743 00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,839 Speaker 1: piece out where it should be interesting. When they were 744 00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:07,239 Speaker 1: doing Vegas the residency in Vegas, my son was in 745 00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,719 Speaker 1: the band as a percussionist. My son, Colin is a 746 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:17,320 Speaker 1: Latin jazz guy, a couple of Grammy nominations as a 747 00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:21,279 Speaker 1: jazz artists. But Joe liked to work with him on 748 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:26,440 Speaker 1: his solo stuff, and so when they did this residency, 749 00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,760 Speaker 1: he wanted him to play all the tambourines and congos 750 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,279 Speaker 1: and bells, and so that's what he was doing. Could 751 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,640 Speaker 1: sing too. So what are you working on now, Jack? 752 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:45,440 Speaker 1: He's so because I have a label. Yeah. Well, the 753 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:48,600 Speaker 1: first act that we signed was the Detroit Youth Choir 754 00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,279 Speaker 1: and they, of course were huge hits on America's Got 755 00:47:54,280 --> 00:48:00,319 Speaker 1: Talent twice they were huge hits. And and so id 756 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:05,680 Speaker 1: that record in Detroit called rock Spell. I called it 757 00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:10,840 Speaker 1: Detroit Rock Band with a youth choir singing classic R 758 00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,000 Speaker 1: and B s. It's available on our site. And then 759 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:18,360 Speaker 1: the next artist I signed was Robin Taylor Xander, who's 760 00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,279 Speaker 1: Robin Xander's son. That album is out now. We just 761 00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:27,200 Speaker 1: dropped acoustic and acoustic version of I and Low, although 762 00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,239 Speaker 1: the single version of it is already out in the 763 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:33,760 Speaker 1: whole record is available on every platform. Detroit Youth Choir 764 00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:38,040 Speaker 1: won us a gospel about two weeks ago, won us 765 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:41,839 Speaker 1: a gospel version of the Grammys for the record that 766 00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:45,160 Speaker 1: we did, so that's pretty cool. And last week I 767 00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:50,759 Speaker 1: was in Los Angeles talking with Disney because Disney has 768 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,160 Speaker 1: picked up the Detroit Youth Choir for a mini series 769 00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:59,200 Speaker 1: called Choir. And so we have the record and they 770 00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:06,000 Speaker 1: have the the the miniseries. It's could be a good combination. Uh. 771 00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:11,040 Speaker 1: I've been doing a lot of film scores. I've got 772 00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:15,400 Speaker 1: on person Personality Crists. I just worked with Maurice Gersasi 773 00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:20,520 Speaker 1: and Ron Howard on Personality Crisis One Night Only, which 774 00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:25,920 Speaker 1: is on Showtime. Now. I've got two films going into 775 00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:31,359 Speaker 1: the festival circuit that I composed the music for. One 776 00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:36,080 Speaker 1: is called The Trust in Love Contemporary Ron Tom takes 777 00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,080 Speaker 1: place in Malibu, and the other one is The Carol 778 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:43,080 Speaker 1: Dotas Story, which is the documentary about the first topless 779 00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:47,280 Speaker 1: dancer in San Francisco, which is cool. I just last 780 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:51,640 Speaker 1: night watched the completed film with my score and it's 781 00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:56,759 Speaker 1: pretty cool. It's amazing how much footage they have of 782 00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,480 Speaker 1: that that period that she was, you know, what was 783 00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:06,839 Speaker 1: happening in San Francisco from nineteen sixty four through the 784 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:12,359 Speaker 1: early seventies a lot San Francisco. It was amazing. And 785 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:16,440 Speaker 1: then I've got an artist named Ellie Low that is 786 00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,040 Speaker 1: up be in the studio in Los Angeles with her 787 00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:24,480 Speaker 1: this coming month producing her. She's really amazing. She's out 788 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:29,040 Speaker 1: of Atlanta. And then my partner on we have two 789 00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:33,640 Speaker 1: labels under one umbrella. I have Confidential Records in New 790 00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:38,040 Speaker 1: York City dot com n Y. That's Confidential Records NYC 791 00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:43,879 Speaker 1: dot com a good website too. And my partner under 792 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:49,560 Speaker 1: the same umbrella is Make Records, and he's a little 793 00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:55,239 Speaker 1: bit different than me. He's timing members of Ghosts and 794 00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:59,200 Speaker 1: he's got a group called Silver Plains. It's a little 795 00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:03,800 Speaker 1: hard rock than what I usually do. Well. I produce 796 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:09,400 Speaker 1: outside acts. I have a request for some group in 797 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:13,120 Speaker 1: England called Xander and the Pirates. I might, I may 798 00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:17,640 Speaker 1: do that. I may do it. And and I today 799 00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,640 Speaker 1: got a message from a guy who has since we 800 00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,359 Speaker 1: were speaking of the who has the license for all 801 00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:29,360 Speaker 1: of this, UH has all this ant whistle incomplete material 802 00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,640 Speaker 1: that the family has licensed to him to complete. So 803 00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:36,520 Speaker 1: that could be interesting. I started listening to it today. 804 00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,799 Speaker 1: You know, that's keeping me very busy. All of this, 805 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,560 Speaker 1: I mean, the label keeps me really busy and on 806 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:46,239 Speaker 1: the go all the time. People said, you want, you know, 807 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,600 Speaker 1: actually retire. What am I going to do? You know, 808 00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,320 Speaker 1: I'm qualified to be the bag boy at stopping shop. 809 00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,000 Speaker 1: Even though right right up on the wall up there, 810 00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:59,560 Speaker 1: you see you John Jack Douglas, doctor of music. It 811 00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:03,000 Speaker 1: is a right up there on the wall. But that'll 812 00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,680 Speaker 1: get you a bag boy job. And now there aren't 813 00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:08,000 Speaker 1: any bag boy jobs because I made it and you 814 00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,200 Speaker 1: got to pack it yourself, so I would basically be unemployed. 815 00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:13,919 Speaker 1: So I like what I'm doing. 816 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:18,560 Speaker 3: I am so grateful for our friend Drew Lane for 817 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:23,480 Speaker 3: connecting us out of Detroit, and I'm so glad that 818 00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,799 Speaker 3: you've been on taking a walk. Thank you for the 819 00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:27,200 Speaker 3: stories and for the music. 820 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,520 Speaker 1: Jack Douglas, amazing. You're very welcome. Good to see you. 821 00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:37,120 Speaker 2: Taking a Walk with Buzznight is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, 822 00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:39,879 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.