1 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg p m L Podcast. I'm pim Fox. 2 00:00:08,760 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Bramowitz. Each day we 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you're at the grocery store 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg p m L 6 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, and Bloomberg dot com. Emerging 7 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: Markets debt this is a big question mark right now 8 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 1: for a lot of fund managers. You have seen outflows 9 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: continue from the largest emerging markets debt e t F 10 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: and emerging market high yield yields are currently lower than 11 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: similarly rated debt yields in the US UH. This has 12 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: only occurred twice. In both instances, it has reversed in 13 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: less than one month. Here to talk about that with us, 14 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: Damien Sassauer, our own of Mberg Intelligence, who focuses on 15 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: everything having to do with emerging markets. Thank you so 16 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: much for being with us. So tell us what is 17 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: going on and why has there been this resilience in 18 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: emerging markets do you haven't seen as much in other 19 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: US as a classes. Well, first of all, Happy Year 20 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: of the Dog, Lisa pim Um. So you know, wait, yeah, 21 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: of course, you know China is emerging market, so anyway, UM, yeah, 22 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: So let's talk about emerging market high yield relative to 23 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: US high yield. So yes, only twice before since twelve 24 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: have emerging market high yield yields will yield to worse 25 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: uh drop below or dip below US high yield. And 26 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: the reason for that, quite frankly, is because US high 27 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: yield monk to date has sold off at a quicker pace. 28 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: And the reason for that is the prevalence of call 29 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: features in US junk debt. Right, So what that does 30 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: adds extension risks. So when yields are rising, you see 31 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: an exaggerated impact, well an exaggerated effect on US high 32 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: yield relative to e M high yield. And that's actually 33 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: what we're seeing right now. But let's talk about the 34 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: actual market dynamic, because you pointed out some thing that 35 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: was fascinating I thought, which is the bid ask spread, 36 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: basically the differential of what people want the price that 37 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: people want to sell the bond for versus what people 38 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: are offering to buy. It's widening out a sign of 39 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: illiquidity in the emerging market complex. Can you talk about 40 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 1: that and what does this signify to you, Well, it's 41 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: happening in US highyield as well, but yes, and e 42 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: M high yield. What it signifies for me? And you 43 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: really have to kind of drill down and see exactly 44 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: which junk bonds in emerging markets are are effectively where 45 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:29,959 Speaker 1: the bid offer spreads are widening. And it's these single 46 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: b these you know, I mean Zambia or Angola, these 47 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: kind of smaller small terms of market value, small terms 48 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: of the size of their country and their economies. There's 49 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: just no demand there, the bids aren't there. When liquidity, 50 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: you know, kind of drives up like we saw last Friday, 51 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: and so when that happens, you know, it gives a 52 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: lot of investors costs for concerning what they are then 53 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: forced to do, especially the big fund managers, is they 54 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: have to sell their higher quality investment grade debt in 55 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: order to meet redemptions, which as we all know, are 56 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: coming through this month. I mean we've seen that not 57 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: just in the world's largest emerging market bond ETF, but 58 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: in all emerging market that ETFs hard currency. That is, 59 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: we've seen a lot of redemptions month to date, and 60 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: we're only halfway through. And the Act of funds they 61 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: have to meet redemptions at the end of this month. 62 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: And uh, if they're seeing the same trend we're seeing 63 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 1: uh in ETFs, it could get it could get a 64 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: little uglier. So let me understand this, Damian. If an 65 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: investor wants to lend their money to a middling credit 66 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:33,520 Speaker 1: emerging market company, they're going to receive less money than 67 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: if they decide to lend their money to a similar 68 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: rated company in the United States. Right, well, phim, let's 69 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: just differentiate. I mean, it's really sovereign debt, right, I 70 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: mean we're talking about a country, not a company, right, 71 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: which is even worse to your point, I mean, so 72 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: so you're right. So, so you're telling me that if 73 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: I want to lend my money to the government of Angola, 74 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: I'm going to get less than if I lend my 75 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: money to the United States government or to the United 76 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: States I know and equivalently rated you s high old corporate, Okay. 77 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 1: And the reason for this is not because the United 78 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: States is a better or worse bet, although you could 79 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: certainly make the case that it might mean a better bet. 80 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: It's because no one wants to buy your angal and 81 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: sovereign debt, So you stick it in the drawer and 82 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: you look for something that someone will buy, and then 83 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: it shows up and it goes, oh yeah, US debt 84 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: will sell that because we know someone will buy. But 85 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 1: there lies the opportunity ten because what it does these 86 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,040 Speaker 1: fund managers are forced to sell higher quality, better bonds 87 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: in order to meet in order to raise cash to 88 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: meet redemptions. Right, So you're seeing these kind of outliers 89 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 1: so and and they're exaggerated in environments like this, and 90 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: this is where you know, the real savvy EM fund managers, 91 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: you know, really earn their keep, right if they're able 92 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: to kind of manage their cash balances. So what is 93 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,679 Speaker 1: one of these So, what is one of these uh, 94 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: sort of savvy investments that is being thrown out because 95 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: someone is trying to meet a redemption call and they 96 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: can't find anyone to you know, by their paper from 97 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: Angola at a price that they're willing to take. Well. 98 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 1: And and I mean look the two largest most liquid 99 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: credits in e M high yield our Argentina and Petrol Buss, right, 100 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: I mean they are huge issuers of high yield emerging 101 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: market debt and invariably, if you need to sell m 102 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: e M high YELD debt to meet redemptions. I would 103 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: imagine those are a source of liquidity for fund managers. 104 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: So learn Portuguese, learned Spanish and lineup for some petrol 105 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: bras and some Argentine bonds. Pretty much. Yeah. So, so 106 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: here's my question right now, how much of this is 107 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: a currency bet? Because you did see a bit more 108 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: dollar strength I mean obviously now, I mean I don't 109 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: want to say that a bit mar because now we're 110 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 1: back at four year lows with a dollar. But you know, 111 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: there was a little bit more strength which would which 112 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: would make these investments less valuable for people who hadn't hedged, 113 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: right because e M currencies were losing value against the dollar. 114 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: Uh So, can you talk to us about how much 115 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 1: that plays into this or is this something to me? 116 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 1: At least it's all about the dollar and em local currency, 117 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 1: especially today. And I mean this has been a big 118 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: story all day long with the dollar declining to three 119 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: or lows, but I mean it has fully decoupled from 120 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: safe safe haven assets such as this was frong the 121 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: en and gold and um. And that's good for emerging 122 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: markets for now, right because you know that's Basically e 123 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: M and commodities are are continuing to perform well, but 124 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: it is a In fact, it is the second most 125 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: crowded short and global financial markets today if you listen 126 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: to Bank of America and I just I'm not sure 127 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: how long dollar bears can hold on given the magnitude 128 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 1: of this week's move. Okay, so let's say the dollar 129 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: does strengthen. How much of a problem is that for 130 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 1: these investments. Oh yeah, I think that's going to be 131 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: a problem, certainly for e M local currency debt. I mean, 132 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of emerging market managers come and go, 133 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: you know, getting barished on the dollar. It's it's just, 134 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: you know, it works when it works, and when it doesn't, 135 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: it really really doesn't. How much fear are you hearing 136 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: from portfolio managing? You know, I don't think it's a 137 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: lot of fear, really. I think it's just more, um, 138 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: it's just more that people are trying to get accustomed 139 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: to this new paradigm. I mean, we all yields are rising. 140 00:06:59,279 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: I mean we have autom than US yields and the 141 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: impact and total returns in all emerging market asset classes, 142 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 1: hard and local currency here to date have been you know, 143 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: materially impacted by rising US yield has just dominated the 144 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: impact on spread, compression and carry. So um, so that's 145 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: a bad thing. What happens if this continues? Um, well, 146 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 1: I don't know how much higher US heils are gonna go. 147 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: We're gonna have to bring Ira Jersey and to answer 148 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: that question. But let's say you get the tenure at 149 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: three Um, you know, I mean what we're almost there 150 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: when we twelve BIPs away? Right, So I think I 151 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: think the US tenure. Look if it continues to go, 152 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: if it goes to three and a quarter, three and 153 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: a half, I think ginus and four percent. I mean, 154 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: things can get really bad for emerging markets at that point. Sure, 155 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: but um, but for now, I think you know, it's 156 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: gonna be uh, it's gonna be steady sail until the 157 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: end of the month and we see what redemptions have 158 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: in store for us. All right, thanks very much, you're 159 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: going to us informed. As always, he's got great research. 160 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: I highly recommend it. Check it out. Yes, that is 161 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: Damian Sas. He's our fixed income strategists. When it comes 162 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Intelligence, all about a merchant market at approximately 163 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: on people are diagnosed with colon cancer in the United States, 164 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: and over fifty thousand people die from it annually. Here 165 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: to help us understand this disease and ways to combat 166 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: it are his Cameron Reynolds. He is the president and 167 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 1: the chief executive of Volition r X and he joins 168 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: us from London. Cameron, thank you very much for being 169 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,199 Speaker 1: with us. Tell us about your company and about how 170 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,319 Speaker 1: you became involved with Volition r X. Yes, I think 171 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: cancer is something which touches everyone, and at Volition we've 172 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,439 Speaker 1: developed a range of different tests for different types of cancer, 173 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: beginning with cole rectal cancer as as you mentioned, and 174 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: ultimately the way best way to treat cancer, short of 175 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: a cure, which is unfortunately not not upon us, is 176 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: to find it early and get the cancer removed. And 177 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: if you can do that in stage one or stage 178 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: two or is a pre cancerous poll up, then your 179 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: chances are surviving more than five years are very high, 180 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: well over ninety. So that's what we're developing a range 181 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: of different blood tests which can detect cancer and in 182 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: a routine blood test, which means it can be part 183 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: of your normal blood work at a very low cost. Cameron, 184 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: talking about the costs. That's what I wanted to pick 185 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: up on because a colon ascopy, which is the traditional 186 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: method of detecting calling cancer, is very challenging and people 187 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: have to be partially anaesthetized and drink all sorts of 188 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: stuff and have somebody bring them home. I mean, it's 189 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: a big complicated or deal. Imagine. It's also pretty expensive. 190 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: Can you give us a sense of what the price 191 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 1: differential would be from the test that you're developing versus 192 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: a colonoscopy. Yeah, the colonoscopy is a very good test 193 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: as far as accuracy goes, but as you say, it's 194 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: very unpleasant and costly. Depending on what what state you're in, 195 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: you can range up to three or four or five 196 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: or six thousand dollars, so you normally don't see that 197 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: except through the COPAI, but the co pay can be 198 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: very large as well. So, unfortunately, because of its cost 199 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: and unpleasantness, there's about thirty million Americans who are not 200 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: currently screened for colon cancer. So one of the ways 201 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: of getting around that is to have a low cost 202 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: blood test. Ours is on a very simple platform called 203 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: a lizer, So it's part of your routine blood work 204 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: and we aim to price around the hundred dollar range, 205 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: so it's very affordable for pretty much everyone. And because 206 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: it's affordable and the decision is really taken out of 207 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: your hands, if the doctor takes that extra BOXUM, like 208 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: your cholesterol test, like your PSA, like all the blood 209 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 1: tests you currently have, that really should put compliance way 210 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 1: higher than it is now. Compliance is not something people 211 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,439 Speaker 1: talk about a lot, but if you're not doing the test, 212 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: the accuracy is very easy to work out, which is zero. 213 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: So by doing a very routine blood test is the 214 00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: best way of getting the most people screened. And if 215 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: you do screen you can find the cancer early. Normally, 216 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: you're in very good shape. Talking about tests, can you 217 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: give us an update on your diagnostic test? Is that 218 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: already launched in Europe? UM, We're just in the process 219 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: now of doing some very large trials in Europe. We'll 220 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 1: have about fifteen thousand patient samples run this year. UM 221 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: we've made public. We're about to announce this month at 222 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: the first read out on the first of those trials, 223 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: which is six eight patients, which we haven't got the 224 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: data from, but we're very hopeful to announce it soon 225 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,959 Speaker 1: and we're very hopeful that it will show something very unique, 226 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: which is ability to detect early stage cancer and pre cancer. Again, 227 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,439 Speaker 1: that's where you really want to be diagnosed before it's metastasized, 228 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: before you need chemotherapy and all those things. So we'll 229 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: have a read on out on that very soon. And 230 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: then we have the two big trials in Europe underway 231 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: this year, which we'll have read outs on both of 232 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: them this year as well. So we're very hopeful of 233 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 1: having a product on the market for next year in 234 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: Europe which is ce marked, which means we can sell 235 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: in twenty eight European country. Is to to anyone clinically, Karen, 236 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: just preliminary studies, do they show that the accuracy is 237 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:11,559 Speaker 1: enough to replace colonoscopies or would this be an additional 238 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: test that would be done for people who might shy 239 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 1: away from the procedure that is more invasive and so 240 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: in other words, this might be another cost rather than 241 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: reducing the cost of the colon asky because it wouldn't 242 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: be a replacement. Yeah. No, I think ultimately, if you're 243 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: currently having a colonoscopy, if you can afford it, you 244 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 1: are prepared to do it. My advice and the correct 245 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: advice is to continue taking it. It's a very accurate 246 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: test and pull ups can be removed straight away. But 247 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: the tragedy is that thirty Americans of screening age either 248 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: not up to date or have never been screened. So 249 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: the only way to reduce the massive cost not only 250 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: on the healthcare system, late stage cancer patients cost up 251 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,079 Speaker 1: to half a million dollars to for the last few 252 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: years of their life, and it's not a very pleasant 253 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: few years. The only way to really deal with that 254 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: to get those people screened is a low cost, easy 255 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: to run routine blood test. So yes, it's correct if 256 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: you if you are positive, you need a colonoscopy to 257 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: follow it up. But it's a way of driving people 258 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: who have a much higher chance of having cancer because 259 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: they're positive in our test from actually having a colonoscopy. 260 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: So ultimately being a very low cost test, it would 261 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: it would save a lot of money from the healthcare 262 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: system because it's apart from the human toil, it's extremely 263 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: expensive treating late stage cancer patents. So we think it's 264 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: the only way of really dealing with that of people 265 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: who just refused to take a colonoscopy. Well, I want 266 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: to push back a little bit because there are other 267 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: biod tests that you know, for example, are really not 268 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: very accurate one for say, varying cancer. Uh. And you know, 269 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: one one concern with blood tests that have limited accuracy 270 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: is that they lead to a lot more unnecessary testing 271 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: um and it might end up adding to costs just 272 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 1: by virtue of uh you know, extra perhaps I needed surveillance, 273 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: uh and and and false alarms. I mean, how do 274 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: you how do you respond to that? That's absolutely grect. 275 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: You've got to be very careful. You're not just diagnosing 276 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: a small number of late stage cancers, which many routine 277 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: blood tests do do. So when you're looking at our 278 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: data which is coming up very soon, looked, if you 279 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: can find the cancer early and and a good percentage 280 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: of them, you've got to be in the sevent or 281 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: more or range of getting those numbers of cancers. If 282 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: you can do that at the low cost, then you 283 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: are saving the system a lot of money. You're very correct, though. 284 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: If you look at a lot of screening modalities, mommography, 285 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: the p s A for prostate, they're very widely carried out, 286 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: but there are under a lot of criticism because if 287 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: they can add more burden to the healthcare system. But 288 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: if if you do what we're aiming to do, and 289 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: we'll get a good read out on that in in 290 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: this month, is if you can do it in a 291 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: very low cost routine test, you then drive the people 292 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: who are positive towards colonoscopies and then you save them 293 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: at an early stage to have the treatment, which then 294 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: are not only save the healthcare system the half a 295 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: million dollars ODD in the treatment, but also gives that 296 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: person another ten or twenty years or thirty years of 297 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: productive life. So there is a lot of concern out 298 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: there and very well dodge concern that you don't want 299 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: to over diagnose. And the p s A for prostate 300 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: is probably the ultimate example. But if if our test 301 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: is as accurate as we think it's hoping has been 302 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: in the previous trials, then we'd be in a very 303 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: rare category of an accurate blood test that's routine, that 304 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: is also low cost. And one thing which is also 305 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: important is there's also a small amount of blood, so 306 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: it's not a separate blood draw it so it can 307 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: be done in your normal lab. You don't have to 308 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: send it off somewhere else. Um. I think if we 309 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: can show all of that which we're hopeful of. Then 310 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: I think we'll be very unique and add a tremendous 311 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: amount of the healthcare system and save an awful lot 312 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: of suffering. Cameron Reynolds, thank you so much for being 313 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: with us. Cameron Reynolds as president and chief executive officer 314 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: of Volition our X, which is based in London and 315 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: is currently testing a blood test to detect colon cancer 316 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: and avoid call it well non avoid call it ask 317 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: perhaps direct a greater number of people to get them 318 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: should they test past it is. I want to turn 319 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: our attention to infrastructure. The President did release a plan 320 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: for how to unleash one point five trillion dollars of 321 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: investments in the US infrastructure. Here to talk about that 322 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: with us, as Christina Swallow, president of the American Society 323 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: of Civil Engineers, coming to us from Washington, d C. Christina, 324 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: I think that there was one really big question right now, 325 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: which is how to spend this money. I mean, aside 326 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: from the fact that this isn't going to necessarily uh 327 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: get done in the form that he's proposing, but what 328 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: needs to happen right now? So from your perspective, let's 329 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: start there. So from our perspective, we look at all 330 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: categories sixteen categories of infrastructure, and we recognize that there's 331 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:05,199 Speaker 1: two trillion dollar investment gap. So when we're starting to 332 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: look at that, we need to make sure that we 333 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: prioritize any funding that we put towards, that we prioritize 334 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: it and put it towards projects that will have the 335 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: most substantial economic and public benefit. We need to really 336 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: make sure that we're prioritizing our projects and spending the 337 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: money where it will have the most long term benefit. Okay, 338 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: I mean that seems reasonable. Maybe we could go through 339 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,199 Speaker 1: some of the states that specifically need this kind of 340 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: infrastructure spending if we can. Let's start with Massachusetts. Massachusetts, 341 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: by many measures, has an issue with its water system. 342 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: Their estimates that it needs about a seven and a 343 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: half billion dollar flow of money in order to fix 344 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:49,959 Speaker 1: the water infrastructure. Is that something that you see as being, uh, 345 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: as you just described, you know, like the biggest bang 346 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: for the buck. So definitely, as Americans, every single American 347 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: should be able to have access to quality drinking water 348 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: as we need it. So that is definitely something It's 349 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: a public health and a safety issue right having proper 350 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: treatment and availability of water, so that is definitely something 351 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: that should be a priority on a national level. We 352 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: know that our surface transportation system is the largest piece 353 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: of that infrastructure investment gap, so that's also a place 354 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: where you can see the need to invest um as 355 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: a priority because it drives so much of our economy. Christina, 356 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: if you were designing the infrastructure plan, what would be 357 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: your first location and first project. That's a good question. 358 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 1: I really I don't know that I have a first 359 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: location of first project. I would want to look probably 360 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: first at our transportation system. Like I mentioned, it's half 361 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: of the gap, and it drives I mean, it really 362 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: does drive our economy. Infrastructure, the sort of transportation system 363 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: in urban settings or in rural settings. Urban settings have 364 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: the most impact on us as people, as well as 365 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: on safety. When you consider that hundred on average a 366 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty eight million trips are made over structurally 367 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: deficient bridges each day, that's something that's definitely an area 368 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 1: that we want to make sure we focus on to 369 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: improve safety and also reduce congestion so our our freight 370 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: bottlenecks don't continue to exist. So that's a focus, but 371 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: we can't ignore our rural areas because the freight travels 372 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 1: across the nation, and so we need to make sure 373 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,120 Speaker 1: rural areas are also maintained. But definitely urban areas needs 374 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,040 Speaker 1: to be a focus. There is more of a focus, 375 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: it seems from the President's plan on the rural areas 376 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: and sort of fortifying the rural grade. Do you think 377 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: that is a bad approach. I think the President is 378 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: looking at the fact that our gut instinct often is 379 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: to fund the urban areas, and just recognizing the fact 380 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: that if we ignore the rural areas, we will be 381 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: um short changing ourselves. I think about so many of 382 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: the states that have these major freight networks. You know, 383 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,119 Speaker 1: when you think about I forty and I and I 384 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:12,880 Speaker 1: tend that crossed these significant areas of just rule. If 385 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 1: we don't make sure that those are maintained, are the 386 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 1: frame won't be able to get to where it's going. 387 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: So we need to make sure that we also focus 388 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 1: on that. And I think that was the intent, was 389 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 1: just to make sure we don't ignore it. Okay, Now, 390 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: the American Society of Civil Engineers, you're based in Reston, Virginia, 391 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: so maybe just even close to Virginia, we can talk 392 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: about in Maryland, because if you live anywhere near the 393 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:40,719 Speaker 1: nation's capital, you know that you faced daily disruptions. Right 394 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: there was this big steam pipe explosion last June. What 395 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,640 Speaker 1: about the deficient bridges there, there's some estimates that six 396 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: of them are deficient. The average commute to work is 397 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: over thirty two minute. What kind of money and what 398 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: specific roads or infrastructure would you recommend that we've focus on. 399 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,199 Speaker 1: We've talked about bridges, and we definitely know in the 400 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: DC area they're working on improving the Frederick Douglas Bridge. 401 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: That's one that's been talked about for really a long time, 402 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: and they're finally at the point where they're going to 403 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 1: be investing in that. I think we also need to 404 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: look when you look at that whole DC Metro area, 405 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,719 Speaker 1: how do we increase investment in transit. Metro has been 406 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: doing a really good job recently at focusing on that, 407 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: but they could still use some additional investment and that 408 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: would help alleviate some of the congestion on the roads 409 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 1: if people went back to trusting the transit system. So 410 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: there's opportunities there not just to invest in the roads 411 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: and the bridges, but also to invest in transit On 412 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: a national level, Transit received our lowest grade at a 413 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: D minus. Christina, you probably have a lot of discussions 414 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: with some of the workers who would be trying to 415 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:54,640 Speaker 1: design and make these infrastructure projects happen. Are there enough 416 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: people in this country at this point to fill the 417 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: jobs that would be required with some kind of substantial 418 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 1: infrastructure plan. The people are there. Um, If the funding 419 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: came through, it wouldn't come through all tomorrow. It would 420 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: come out in a phase phase manner, in which case, um, 421 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 1: the people that are already in the industries would be 422 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: able to ramp up and do additional work and capacity 423 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 1: as we continue to develop new entry entry level workers 424 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: into the broad spectrum of the industry. So the money 425 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: would come, the current workforce would step up, and additional 426 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: workers would enter, and we would start to see changes 427 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,919 Speaker 1: in our infrastructure within the next three to five years. 428 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: But overall, to bring the grades from a D plus 429 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: to everyone at a B, it's going to take us decades. 430 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: We didn't get here in a matter of a short 431 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 1: time frames, and we're not going to get out of 432 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: it in a short time frame either. It's going to 433 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: take time. What's the position of the American Society of 434 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: Civil Engineers on increasing the the federal gasoline tax in 435 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: order to add more money to the Highway Trust Fund. 436 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,919 Speaker 1: We've supported increasing the federal gas tax for years. It 437 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: hasn't been in increase since n It's buying power is 438 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: significantly decreased as a result. Additionally, we know Carls cards 439 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: have become more fuel efficient, so we need to find 440 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: a way to increase investment today. And we're excited about 441 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: the fact that the US Chamber and even I heard 442 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: yesterday the President support the concept of or increase in 443 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: the gas tax that will help us meet the needs 444 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,439 Speaker 1: today but also modernize and improve our system for the 445 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: twenty one century. Christina, I'm just wondering. You said that 446 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: this problem has taken decades to happen, and we will 447 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: take probably decades to fix, even with some substantial appropriations 448 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: in the near term. Whose fault was it that there 449 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: wasn't more real time investment made? I think that that 450 00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: we're we all share a little bit of that. I 451 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: think there's the concept that when the infrastructure was built, 452 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 1: there wasn't a lot of thought about the long term 453 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: ongoing maintenance. It was we built it, and it was 454 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 1: a great success. You think about the major construction of 455 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: of the early twentieth century and how successful those were, 456 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 1: but then but nobody was really thinking about the long 457 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: term maintenance of those projects, or even though a project 458 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: that was built in the early d with would would 459 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 1: be expected to be still functioning today a century later. 460 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,959 Speaker 1: I visited a lock system in Seattle that celebrated its 461 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: centennial last summer. So there's a lot of pieces of this. 462 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: We weren't thinking about the long term maintenance. We weren't 463 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: expecting the projects to have to last as long as 464 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: they were, and so we've underinvested for a full generation. 465 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 1: And now it's time that we all at all levels 466 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,600 Speaker 1: of government and private step up and start increasing that 467 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: investment and modernize our system. Um. One of the things 468 00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: we we've been focused on is also the combination of 469 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: spending but also the goals. In other words, whether there 470 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,439 Speaker 1: is a specific economic goal other than saying all right, 471 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: yes we want better roads, we want better bridges. But 472 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 1: for example, in the Mississippi, the idea that you would 473 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: have a specific goal that would either cut weight times 474 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: for soybean farmers and exporters in order to be able 475 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: to get their products to market. Is there any specific 476 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: economic goal that you can point to that we would 477 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: then focus on so that we would know whether we're 478 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,879 Speaker 1: spending the money on the right kinds of infrastructure projects. 479 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: Each project is going to have to have its own 480 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: its own goals, but on a national level, we know 481 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: that if we don't invest the additional two trillion dollars 482 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 1: needed between now and our economy will suffer three point 483 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 1: nine trillion dollar loss in our GDP. So there is 484 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: definitely an economic impact to this. It's not just a 485 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: public health and safety issue, which we talk about a 486 00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 1: lot in terms of the water systems and the bridges, 487 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: but it also impacts our economy and we need to invest. 488 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: I mean that's not it's not just the GP that 489 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: will be impacted. Seven trillion dollars in lost business sales, 490 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: two and a half million million jobs lost in alone. 491 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: There are economic impacts to under investing in our infrastructure. 492 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 1: I want to thank you very much for joining us. 493 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:26,199 Speaker 1: Christina Swallow, president of the American Society of a Civil Engineers. 494 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: They are based in Rest in Virginia. We want to 495 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: visit now with Robert Langrity as our senior healthcare reporter 496 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: for Bloomberg and Robert just to set out a little 497 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: bit about Amazon and the healthcare industry. Amazon does about 498 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: a hundred and seventies seven billion dollars worth of business 499 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: a year, and on its most recent inference call, the 500 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: earnings call, one of the executives spoke about the Amazon 501 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 1: business offering. This was in October, and they were saying 502 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: that the one of the institutions, one of the areas 503 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,920 Speaker 1: that they are targeting with this offering, along with schools, laboratories, 504 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:21,159 Speaker 1: government agencies, is the healthcare industry for dentists, doctors, hospitals. 505 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: We're talking about gloves, syringes, other kind of healthcare items. 506 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: What is Amazon doing and who is going to feel 507 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 1: the heat? Well, so, like you know, there's been a 508 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 1: lot of buzz about what is Anmazon at last several 509 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: months about what is Amazon going to do in healthcare? 510 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: Are there has been uh talk uh And they've I 511 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 1: guess been quietly looking at, you know, for years what 512 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: to do in the in the drug sector. Uh, and 513 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: certainly that's affected lots of drug related stocks. But what 514 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,199 Speaker 1: they appeared to already be doing and they have been 515 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:56,960 Speaker 1: kind of working on for a couple of years, is 516 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: in their Amazon business. They want to expand it b 517 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: to be and this is a way. Of course, there's 518 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: a huge market for health care supply, so they are 519 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: kind of starting in healthcare and I guess a small 520 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 1: way on kind of basic supplies. And what our sources 521 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: has said is you're one way to start to penetrate 522 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: the supply market is UH for you know, medical good. 523 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 1: UH is before you get to the high tech, highly 524 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: regulated stuff like medical devices and drugs, which are complicated 525 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,199 Speaker 1: sometimes of special delivery requirements, lots of regulations, you can 526 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: start with the simple stuff, you know, grov's bandages, stutors 527 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 1: stuff that, and and and you can start with doctors 528 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: offices and and that is a market that is from 529 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: sources we talked to say are underserved compared to UH. 530 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: You know that the the more and more acute hospital 531 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: market and hospitals and buying up lots of doctors offices 532 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: and now they have lots lots of far flung offices 533 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: and the distribution isn't as efficient because you know they're 534 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: distribut and systems are built for the central hospital. So 535 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: Amazon is trying to you know, get into this sector 536 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: in a big way, establish a foothold. Uh, you know, 537 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: in the big medical supplies market, and it's I've been 538 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: talking to hospitals or with the focus on our patient 539 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 1: clinics and uh and that could potentially threaten you know, 540 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: medical supply companies. There's a company, Henry Shine that has 541 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 1: calls on doctors off his veterinarians, dentist. There's another company 542 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: owns and minor. Uh and they acknowledge in a conference 543 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 1: call yesterday, Hey, I was talking to our customers. Uh 544 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: and so far, you know, Amazon is more in the 545 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: doctor office, but they're talking to our big hospital customers. Uh. 546 00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: So this is a way for Amazon to start to 547 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: get into the medical supply market. But uh and if 548 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: this works, I would imagine they would ramp up two 549 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: more expensive, higher tech stuff eventually, Robert, is this stuff 550 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: mostly those sort of gloves and the sutures and the 551 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: band aids? And are these things low profit margin types 552 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 1: of goods? In other words, are they starting Is this 553 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,719 Speaker 1: an experiment for them or is this lucrative in its 554 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,719 Speaker 1: own right? Well, I mean it's just looking you know, 555 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: Henry Shine itself, that's one company with supplies and stuff. 556 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: They they alone of a few billion dollars in sales, 557 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: and you know, medical supply and several more billion dollars 558 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: in dental supply. So they're like, I think around I 559 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: probably you know, somewhere around ten billion dollars in revenue company. Uh, 560 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: and you're not just one company, so I'm sure it's 561 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: nowhere near as the Other thing about Amazon is that 562 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: it's been about revenue growth, and investors have wanted to 563 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: see you know, uh sterling a revenue growth kind of 564 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 1: profits come later and they've been rewarded for the revenue 565 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: growth and new markets, and they're looking for new markets 566 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: to get into. And you know, healthcare is one of 567 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: the big, big big markets there not in now and 568 00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 1: in much of a way, rob You know, the the 569 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: issue of Amazon taking over other businesses is not brand new. 570 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: Where have all these I mean, Robert, where have all 571 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: these businesses been? Are they waiting for Amazon to come 572 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: in and give them competition? Because doesn't this apply to 573 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: just about any kind of product and service that's delivered 574 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: to your door? Um? Yeah, potentially does. But and the 575 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: one reason that that you know, doctor's offices, didental clinics, 576 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: outpatient surgery clinics. Uh uh, these types of clinics and 577 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: smaller operations were because you know, they also have to 578 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: order office supplies and basic stuff too, and so they can. 579 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 1: It works very well because some of them may already 580 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: be lading to office supply supplies from Amazon business. And 581 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 1: if you throw advantage and sutures and other basic medical 582 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: supplies that don't have to refrigerator, it aren't being implanted 583 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: in the patients. There's not complicated the regulation there. They 584 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: can combine order. It fits very well. And this stuff, 585 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: you know, it's businesses. Basic stuff can be stored in 586 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: the warehouse with refrigeration. It's not not the high tech 587 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: stuff you have, and they can build up to the 588 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: higher tech stuff. So it's a good starting point, uh 589 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: for Amazon. The one thing and they've been you know 590 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: talking to some major hospital systems, uh, you know over 591 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: about you know, what they can do in health over 592 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: the past several months to a year. We talked to 593 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,120 Speaker 1: one that's been talking to Amazon for a year, another 594 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,800 Speaker 1: one that's been talking to Amazon for you know, three 595 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: or six months. Uh. And Amazon would be a big 596 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: change from the way things are done because they would 597 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: have ordered the hospitals and health systems because a lot 598 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: of the supplies are in a contract basis. Now it's 599 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: kind of fixed price at my last or six months 600 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: a year. Amazon really built up that relationship with hospitals. 601 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Unfortunately have to leave it there. 602 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,880 Speaker 1: Robert Langworth, health care reporter, Senior health reporter for Bloomberg News. 603 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast. 604 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,400 Speaker 1: You can some scribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, 605 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,960 Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm pim Fox, I'm 606 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: on Twitter at pim Fox. I'm on Twitter at Lisa 607 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,719 Speaker 1: abramowits one before the podcast. You can always catch us 608 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: worldwide on Bluebirg Radio