Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wikay f Daily with
Speaker 1: Meet your Girl, Danielle Moody recording Yes from the Brooklyn Bunker. Folks.
Speaker 1: In my conversations, I have often said that I am
Speaker 1: not a religious person. I do not subscribe to any
Speaker 1: organized religion. But I am a spiritual person. And I
Speaker 1: have found that over the last couple of years, and
Speaker 1: maybe at his age, or maybe it's the times that
Speaker 1: we are living in that I have become more grounded
Speaker 1: in a spiritual practice, one that makes me feel aligned,
Speaker 1: grounds me in times filled with numerous tempests. And I
Speaker 1: often nowadays love to get into conversations with people who
Speaker 1: are who have made their their profession, their life, their work,
Speaker 1: about their dedication to spirit, to God, to the universe. Right.
Speaker 1: I have over the past couple of years, you know,
Speaker 1: interviewed various folks who write about religion, religious scholars, yogi's,
Speaker 1: people that are practicing a variety of connection. And so
Speaker 1: I was really excited and happy to get the opportunity
Speaker 1: to speak with Candice Marie Benbo whose new book Red
Speaker 1: Lip Theology for church girls who have considered tithing to
Speaker 1: the beauty Supply Store. When Sunday isn't enough in her
Speaker 1: journey about what it means to be a black woman,
Speaker 1: what it means to create an environment that is about
Speaker 1: self care, self love in response to a world that
Speaker 1: refuses to see us, to see us as worthy outside
Speaker 1: of what it is that we can produce for them.
Speaker 1: And Candice is a theologian, and she is a self
Speaker 1: described church girl who grew up in the Black church,
Speaker 1: which has its own kinds of imbalances. Right. The reason
Speaker 1: why she named the book read Lip Theology, and she
Speaker 1: will tell you in our conversation coming up next, is
Speaker 1: because of the dictations and the prescriptions that black women
Speaker 1: must follow inside of the church to look the right
Speaker 1: way right. And a red lip that I wear all
Speaker 1: the time does not show your chastity, does not show
Speaker 1: your servitude. Right. And she talks about in this book
Speaker 1: in such a thoughtful way about what it means to
Speaker 1: understand yourself and your own relationship to God. She'll talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, a person asking her, well, how do you
Speaker 1: pray right? And her response is, well, I pray the
Speaker 1: same way that I'm talking to you. I don't need
Speaker 1: to show up prim and proper right and reciting you know,
Speaker 1: the text in with the proper enunciations and in the
Speaker 1: perfect way for God to understand me. God created me,
Speaker 1: He created us, right. She goes on to say, you know,
Speaker 1: he knows who I am, and so if I can't
Speaker 1: talk and be in conversation with God in the way
Speaker 1: that I am with my loved ones, with my friends,
Speaker 1: then what am I doing? The foreword of this book
Speaker 1: is written by one of my friends, and the reason,
Speaker 1: the person really behind why I strive to educate in
Speaker 1: the way that I do, and why I ever got
Speaker 1: on television Melissa Harris Perry. Now, for many of you
Speaker 1: old heads of MSNBC, Melissa Harris Perry had the weekend
Speaker 1: show and it was called Nerdland where we would gather
Speaker 1: and she would create a syllabus to kind of run
Speaker 1: us through with some of the most profound and overlooked
Speaker 1: intellectuals at that time to TV to talk not just
Speaker 1: about you know, issues, but to really try to figure
Speaker 1: out how to understand right, how to learn. You left
Speaker 1: the show feeling smarter, right, not just wrapped up in rage,
Speaker 1: but you felt like you learned something. And you really
Speaker 1: can't say that right about a lot that is on
Speaker 1: television right now and Melissa is the reason why I
Speaker 1: try not to only create a platform that is about
Speaker 1: us coming together over our own grievances about this country
Speaker 1: and our desire for it to be better, but why
Speaker 1: I try to offer voices and conversations and exposure to
Speaker 1: people to themes, to ideas that are purposefully, in my
Speaker 1: humble opinion, left out of the mainstream. And so Melissa
Speaker 1: wrote the foreword for Candice's book, and one of the
Speaker 1: things that she wrote is this, navigating a whole entire
Speaker 1: complicated cray morality, play of righteousness and rouged lips every
Speaker 1: time you step up to the makeup counter is exhausting. Surely,
Speaker 1: black women, who shoulder more than our fair share of
Speaker 1: child rearing, church building, community gathering, bag securing, and way
Speaker 1: making deserve a God better than some petty, distant patriarch
Speaker 1: patriarch policing our lip color. Black girls deserve a magnificent, loving, imminent,
Speaker 1: and chill God. We need a God who loves our
Speaker 1: minds when we make deans list and when we piece
Speaker 1: out on the PhD. We need a God who loves
Speaker 1: our hearts, even when they are broken as a result
Speaker 1: of our foreseeably foolish choices. We know God will not
Speaker 1: shield us from agony when we lose our Mamma, and
Speaker 1: will not always guard us from the evil of sexual assault.
Speaker 1: But we need a God big enough to send our
Speaker 1: BFFs to our grieving chamber, to gently lure us to
Speaker 1: the makeup counter, and to help us choose a red
Speaker 1: lipstick so that we can see ourselves again. We not
Speaker 1: only need a God who loves black girls, we need
Speaker 1: a God who likes us, us, regular black girls with
Speaker 1: nappy hair, big hips, and red lips. Candice Marie Benbo's
Speaker 1: red lip theology is a roadmap to where we might
Speaker 1: find the God we need. I think that in times
Speaker 1: of great fear, anxiety, grief, anger, it is normal to
Speaker 1: challenge your relationships to God, to the universe, to a
Speaker 1: higher being, and to ask questions like, hey, are you listening?
Speaker 1: Why does evil always win? Hey? God, Hey Universe? When
Speaker 1: are we going to vibrate higher and align with our
Speaker 1: better selves? When are we going to see the actual
Speaker 1: better angels prevail in the way that scripture right, regardless
Speaker 1: of what you prescribe, says it will. And for me,
Speaker 1: the past couple of years have been ones where I
Speaker 1: am trying to align myself with something other than anger,
Speaker 1: with something other than the tangible, because sometimes what can
Speaker 1: be felt, seen and heard is really heartbreaking, is really trying.
Speaker 1: And I think that it is important for us to
Speaker 1: recognize that we are but specs of dust in the
Speaker 1: larger scheme of things, and that our time is actually fleeting. Right,
Speaker 1: And so what does it mean to live a life
Speaker 1: that is bold? That is bold just for sents of being,
Speaker 1: not because of what it is that you produce or
Speaker 1: what it is that you can provide, but by virtue
Speaker 1: of your just existence. Right, we have been tricked into
Speaker 1: believing that we are only worthy right of praise from
Speaker 1: up high if in fact we live our lives in
Speaker 1: some type of rigid fashion, if in fact we do
Speaker 1: these things that have been written down by God knows who,
Speaker 1: when and for what purpose. I say that I have
Speaker 1: never prescribed to organized religion because I believe much in
Speaker 1: the same ways as government. It is about control. It
Speaker 1: is about us giving up our own will and our
Speaker 1: own power to something else. Right, that if left to
Speaker 1: our own devices, then there would just be mayhem. So
Speaker 1: there was this construction of this being that for some
Speaker 1: people is about God fearing right but for others, is
Speaker 1: it about the expansiveness of what it means to love right,
Speaker 1: even in the face of cruelty of hardship. So I
Speaker 1: hope that you all enjoy the conversation that I have
Speaker 1: with Candice. And this book is specifically, you know, written
Speaker 1: with eyes on black women and girls, but it is
Speaker 1: for everybody, for allies as well. We're in a really
Speaker 1: tough place and I think that we need to be
Speaker 1: sharpening all of the tools in our toolboxes to help
Speaker 1: us be able to make it to the other side,
Speaker 1: whatever that other side. Maybe you know I said yesterday
Speaker 1: in what was my very solemn opening to the show,
Speaker 1: that I'm kind of still feeling today is what is
Speaker 1: it going to take for us to really make it?
Speaker 1: And when we say make it, what is it that
Speaker 1: we actually mean When everything around you is failing, where
Speaker 1: do you go? Right? And what I have found myself
Speaker 1: doing over the course of these last several years is
Speaker 1: going within, is tightening my circle, my tribe of a
Speaker 1: handful of friends and family allow me to be my
Speaker 1: fully messy, complex layered emotional self and hold that hold
Speaker 1: that space for me. And I think that what is
Speaker 1: really beautiful about Candice's book is that she is holding
Speaker 1: space for Black women and girls who don't often get space,
Speaker 1: not even inside of our own churches, of our own homes,
Speaker 1: of our own communities. And so it's an offering right
Speaker 1: for us to come back home to ourselves and to
Speaker 1: recognizing the beauty of who we are and allowing ourselves
Speaker 1: to love ourselves despite whatever the outside projection and stereotypes
Speaker 1: hateful comments that may always plague us. There is a
Speaker 1: beauty in black women that and I say this in
Speaker 1: an interview, that there are people way smarter than me,
Speaker 1: way more studied than me, throughout history that have stated
Speaker 1: the truth about how this country, how this world sees
Speaker 1: black women, how they feel like they are in the
Speaker 1: right to dictate our looks, the way we talk, how
Speaker 1: we hold emotion, you know, how we're able to express
Speaker 1: ourselves and trying to strive to reach some ideal sense
Speaker 1: of beauty or demurnis that we will never meet. And
Speaker 1: so in this book, I think that Candice make space
Speaker 1: for Black women and girls to meet themselves where they
Speaker 1: are and to connect with a higher power where they are,
Speaker 1: and also how we make ourselves up right, how we
Speaker 1: cover ourselves with certain types of armor, including a red
Speaker 1: lip to meet the world that is not always welcoming
Speaker 1: towards us. So coming up next is my conversation with
Speaker 1: theologian and author whose book drops today, Red Lip Theology,
Speaker 1: Candice Marie Benbo. Go and pick it up, folks. I
Speaker 1: am very excited to welcome to wok F Daily for
Speaker 1: the very first time, theologian and author of I mean,
Speaker 1: look at this. I just folks, I just want like,
Speaker 1: look at this, Look at this cover. It's so bomb,
Speaker 1: author of the book Red Lip Theology for church girls
Speaker 1: who've considered tithing to the beauty supply store when Sunday
Speaker 1: morning isn't enough, Candice Bembo. I mean, first of all,
Speaker 1: the cover, the content, um, the fact that you have
Speaker 1: my girl, the reason why I do the work that
Speaker 1: I do. Melissa Harris Perry, writing your forward, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: so yes, so yes, okay certified, so yes, um, tell
Speaker 1: me about the the idea behind the book. How how
Speaker 1: did you come to this place? Because it's it's it's
Speaker 1: deep red. And the funny thing is I wear red
Speaker 1: lipstick all the time and it had it had become
Speaker 1: my my my armor and my and my weapon of choice.
Speaker 1: Beginning in twenty twenty. Um, I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: even know. Beginning to read this, I started thinking to myself,
Speaker 1: was this like a real conscious decision that I made?
Speaker 1: Like this is this another form of rebellion? But please
Speaker 1: tell me about your how you came to this book. Well,
Speaker 1: thank you first for having me. I'm so excited to
Speaker 1: be here. I came to really theology one because at
Speaker 1: the time that I was in seminary I was coming
Speaker 1: out of a failed relationship and my best friend came
Speaker 1: to see me and she was like, you look like
Speaker 1: what you've been through and you do not look like
Speaker 1: my best friend. So she was like, we love best
Speaker 1: friends for that. Listen. She was like, I need you
Speaker 1: to get it together. And part of what she made
Speaker 1: me promise to do was make my face every day,
Speaker 1: put more emphasis and interest in what I wore, just
Speaker 1: my overall appearance. And so as I committed to doing that,
Speaker 1: I was also in seminary learning doing a much more
Speaker 1: deep theological dive than I've ever done before as part
Speaker 1: of theological education, and I just I had a commitment
Speaker 1: that I felt like black women, especially younger black women,
Speaker 1: deserve to have faith conversations rooted in our own experiences,
Speaker 1: and so too often we're listening to black men who
Speaker 1: don't really hear us or center us first. And so
Speaker 1: I was like, when it came to thinking through, like,
Speaker 1: how do how do we have conversations that put us
Speaker 1: at the center and make us, you know, and our
Speaker 1: experiences the object of exploration. That's really how real theology
Speaker 1: came to life. You know, I think that, I mean,
Speaker 1: we know right that black women and black girls have
Speaker 1: so many barriers that are placed in front of them,
Speaker 1: have so many dictations about our body, our hair, our speech,
Speaker 1: our addiction, right, our presence, and I think, you know,
Speaker 1: the the decision to take on, even within the context
Speaker 1: of our own community and church, the dictations that are
Speaker 1: really rooted in what is it respectability politics, right of
Speaker 1: how of how women should learn and how they should
Speaker 1: show up. As a self professed church girl, how do you,
Speaker 1: at one hand, because I know that you have been
Speaker 1: grappling with a lot, how do you want, one hand,
Speaker 1: you know, respect the Christianity that you have been reared in,
Speaker 1: but also push against some of the notions that have
Speaker 1: been proclaimed as truth that are in fact rooted in
Speaker 1: respectability politics. And really, you know, if I may say,
Speaker 1: white supremacy and the idea that if we look good,
Speaker 1: if we look better, right, then we will be accepted.
Speaker 1: Right then then then then we will we will be
Speaker 1: seen as worthy. Yeah, I think part of it is
Speaker 1: getting to a place where you recognize an honor. That that
Speaker 1: that be respectability politics, that the anti blackness, that the
Speaker 1: white supremacist grounding, that so much of what we've been
Speaker 1: taught is not actually scripture, right, like when you when
Speaker 1: you when you really look at Jesus's life, when you
Speaker 1: look at who Jesus rolled with, like the way that
Speaker 1: he taught in parables, like he was teaching us how
Speaker 1: to live in community with each other, how to hold
Speaker 1: each other accountable, and how to honor each other's particularities. Right.
Speaker 1: And so that doesn't mean that you tell me how
Speaker 1: I need to dress in order to be appropriate for
Speaker 1: church space right now. It may mean you do as
Speaker 1: my best friend did. And when you see me not
Speaker 1: living up to my potential and who you know that
Speaker 1: I can be, that's when you pull me to the
Speaker 1: side and say, hey, like, what what's really going on here? Right?
Speaker 1: And so part of why I've been able to hold
Speaker 1: the tension is because I know and believe what the
Speaker 1: church can be when it's at its best, when it
Speaker 1: holds space for our complexities, when it holds space to
Speaker 1: honor who we can be, Like I know one who
Speaker 1: we could be if we push it in that space.
Speaker 1: And too, I hold to the truth that what we
Speaker 1: have seen isn't who isn't what Christ wants for us
Speaker 1: as it looks at the church, and especially as it
Speaker 1: relates to black girls and women, right like, when we
Speaker 1: look at the church, who is literally who is really
Speaker 1: running the church? Sisters? Like if sisters sat down and
Speaker 1: decided not to pay tides, decided not to work in
Speaker 1: churches just one sunday, we wouldn't have church like And
Speaker 1: so then it becomes what does the institution old to
Speaker 1: Black girls and women as it relates to how it
Speaker 1: treats us just by virtue of the work that we
Speaker 1: continue to do in this way. You know, it's so
Speaker 1: funny because even if you were to take this out
Speaker 1: of the context of the church and take it into
Speaker 1: you know, a corporate workplace or a nonprofit workplace, what
Speaker 1: you're talking about in terms of the work that women
Speaker 1: do Black women do in the church is considered soft skills, right,
Speaker 1: It's it's what the soft skills are in the workplace.
Speaker 1: But if you don't tap into those soft skills, if
Speaker 1: those people decide, those women in the workplace decide I'm
Speaker 1: not going to make sure that there is food in
Speaker 1: the fridge, I'm not going to clean up, I'm not
Speaker 1: going to check in on so and so, then what happens? Right, Like,
Speaker 1: we don't see the work that is being done as
Speaker 1: the infrastructure, right like you would. The layout of your
Speaker 1: of your contents um in the book is about how
Speaker 1: we layer our faces right, and you know, and the
Speaker 1: foundation of any good makeup right is good scan. So
Speaker 1: when you're in first you know in your in your
Speaker 1: first chapter, you know we are we we are good creation.
Speaker 1: And I just want to and I just want to
Speaker 1: just like read it for the audience. My skin tells
Speaker 1: all my business. When I'm embarrassed, angry or stressed, when
Speaker 1: I'm not taking care of myself and need water, my
Speaker 1: skin is the mean I can't escape. And taking care
Speaker 1: of my skin and shores, I become a person worthy
Speaker 1: of my time and attention. That really grabs me, right
Speaker 1: because I think that right now, Candice too particularly we
Speaker 1: as black women are really I think as a whole
Speaker 1: deciding that we're not waiting to take care of ourselves.
Speaker 1: Like from from you know, from our sister Tomes of
Speaker 1: Essence magazine, you know, and on, you get this sense
Speaker 1: that we are all in this same collective experience of
Speaker 1: you're not going to suck me dry, right like that,
Speaker 1: because that's what I that's that's how I interpret what
Speaker 1: I just read is that this this life, this work,
Speaker 1: this um finger waving, whether it's coming from the church
Speaker 1: elders or it's coming from my boss, like you are
Speaker 1: not going to suck me dry. I am going to
Speaker 1: stay hydrated. I'm going to stay in my in my
Speaker 1: skin right right. Yeah. Like it's so funny that you
Speaker 1: said that, because I've been thinking a lot about it
Speaker 1: in the wake of the Great Resignation right where everybody
Speaker 1: leaving to choose better for themselves. Like there there is
Speaker 1: a moment where we're in where black women are saying
Speaker 1: we have options and we have no problem exercising them.
Speaker 1: Come on, and you are not going to make me
Speaker 1: feel like I have to abide by what you say,
Speaker 1: Like you're just not going to do that. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: what you know, I think about that because part of
Speaker 1: the conversation around the Great resignation, right, because I've been
Speaker 1: talking about this unwokeapp a lot is a lot, right,
Speaker 1: it's a lie of the workers being lazy. People don't
Speaker 1: want to work, and so they're just opting out, right,
Speaker 1: it's a lie. No, like you said, people are not
Speaker 1: opting out because they are lazy. They are alloped. They
Speaker 1: are opting into better lives and livelihoods, right, They're they're
Speaker 1: opting into um, recognizing their own personal worth and that
Speaker 1: not being dictated to them by their bank accounts, right
Speaker 1: or lack thereof. And and so I think that it's
Speaker 1: you know, what is it about black women though in
Speaker 1: particular that has us? And you know it is it
Speaker 1: has been said by by way more you know, smarter
Speaker 1: people than myself, Black women, you know, the mules of
Speaker 1: the world. You know this bridge called my back, like
Speaker 1: all of you know, like all of these things have
Speaker 1: been true, they have been rooted in truth. We are
Speaker 1: the workhorses, right, the workhorses of democracy, all of these things.
Speaker 1: What is it though, that you think is intrensit in
Speaker 1: usum that has us show up in that way right,
Speaker 1: that we are having to unlearn this labor that we
Speaker 1: have taken on or that has been put on us,
Speaker 1: because it's a both and I mean to be honest, Danielle,
Speaker 1: I do think, and that's part of the reason why
Speaker 1: I wrote Relic Theology is because I do think that
Speaker 1: it is rooted in a centuries long belief that we
Speaker 1: have to work in order to be worthy, right, that
Speaker 1: we have to that what we produce, how people see
Speaker 1: us as expendable, how people see us as valuable, determines
Speaker 1: how we should see ourselves. And we've seen it in church,
Speaker 1: right like we've seen it. That's how, that's how. So
Speaker 1: much of a lot of this work around walking away
Speaker 1: from front spaces that don't serve us is also about
Speaker 1: walking away from shame. And we don't quote unquote do
Speaker 1: the things that people expect us to do. Right. So
Speaker 1: you have a moment where say you you you made
Speaker 1: a decision, or say you do something that may not
Speaker 1: have worked out the way you thought it was. The
Speaker 1: way sisters internalize the shame of I should have known better,
Speaker 1: Why did I do that? You know? The way that
Speaker 1: we do all of that is so rooted, and if
Speaker 1: I would have done it and been productive. Then people
Speaker 1: would see me as worthy now because I didn't do it,
Speaker 1: or because it didn't show up the way that I
Speaker 1: thought it was. There's there's a certain level of worth
Speaker 1: that's detached from me and I and we've seen it,
Speaker 1: and I'm moms, we've seen it, you know. And our
Speaker 1: grandmother's Like I had a conversation with my with my
Speaker 1: grandmother where we were talking about, you know, the power
Speaker 1: that sisters have now to walk away from relationships, not
Speaker 1: because not because he's he is a bad guy, but
Speaker 1: just because I'm not thriving in it anymore. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I'm deserted. It used to be well did it beat you? Right?
Speaker 1: Like it's just like so it physical abuse is the
Speaker 1: only thing that can get me to least, is it?
Speaker 1: You know? And my grandma that is exactly what my
Speaker 1: grandma said. She was like, y'all are saying like I'm
Speaker 1: just not happy no more. I'm waking up and I'm
Speaker 1: not happy. I'm not I don't want to be here.
Speaker 1: And she said, when I was growing up, it wasn't
Speaker 1: you left because he might have had an affair and
Speaker 1: an outside child. You only could leave if you put
Speaker 1: his hands scime because she was like, if you left
Speaker 1: while he just because he cheated, that didn't mean he
Speaker 1: wasn't a good provider. That didn't mean he couldn't be
Speaker 1: a good dad to his kids in your house. And
Speaker 1: so we were having this conversation about how excited at
Speaker 1: eighty seven she is at the option that we like, No,
Speaker 1: like he a good dude, He's just not good for me, right,
Speaker 1: but he's not. He's not the great one for me.
Speaker 1: And I think that we're also in a moment where
Speaker 1: sisters are applying that to other areas of our lives, right,
Speaker 1: Like we're looking at friendships differently, Like we're looking at
Speaker 1: work differently, We're looking at other kinds of relationships, like
Speaker 1: how how do I get to wake up every day,
Speaker 1: show up as my full self, get to do the
Speaker 1: work that allows me to be my full self and
Speaker 1: to be in the spaces and relationships that allow me
Speaker 1: to be my full self for no other reason than
Speaker 1: because I deserve it. Like, I mean, my God, that
Speaker 1: seems so simple and yet so damn revolutionary. I'm like, wait,
Speaker 1: just just because just because I am listen, just because like,
Speaker 1: like one of the things that my therapist and I
Speaker 1: worked on last year is allowing myself to say I
Speaker 1: deserve something and and and obtaining it, going and purchasing it,
Speaker 1: going and getting it whatever. It was working towards the
Speaker 1: goal and the justification being simply because I breathe, like
Speaker 1: like just just sitting with that. And I remember the
Speaker 1: first time she introduced that to me in our session,
Speaker 1: and I was like, what you simply because I breathe?
Speaker 1: Like I can't just do this because you know I
Speaker 1: I'm not, I'm alive, Like I have to have a justification.
Speaker 1: I have to have another reason, like how does this
Speaker 1: make sense in my budget? How can I what else
Speaker 1: kind of work can I do to make up for
Speaker 1: the purchase? And she was like no, like simply because
Speaker 1: you breathe, it can be yours like you walk in
Speaker 1: this earth every day. And the wild part is that
Speaker 1: when you look at white people and when you look
Speaker 1: at black men, they move that way. It's there simply
Speaker 1: because they exist, Like how dare you say they can't
Speaker 1: have it? And we and as sisters, what does it
Speaker 1: look like for us to continue to move into that space.
Speaker 1: I see a lot of us doing it. I see younger.
Speaker 1: I mean, I tell but all the time, like when
Speaker 1: we be said the children the future, like she went lying,
Speaker 1: because these younger sisters and and they're teaching us, and
Speaker 1: it's up to us to also continue to work to
Speaker 1: create the space that gives them the room to be
Speaker 1: able to fully lean into that and flourishing. Man, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, my god, they're so there's so much there.
Speaker 1: Because I will tell you myself. You know, I've been,
Speaker 1: like millions of Americans, working from home. Right, this is
Speaker 1: this is not this is not the studio, this is
Speaker 1: this is my house, and have been really grappling with
Speaker 1: what it means to relax, have been really grappling um
Speaker 1: with rest. And last weekend I did absolutely nothing right, Like,
Speaker 1: did absolutely nothing but Candice the guilt, the guilt that
Speaker 1: I had to work through around that I should be reading,
Speaker 1: I should be doing this, I should be taking notes.
Speaker 1: I should be looking at X, Y and Z. The
Speaker 1: guilt you know, speak speak to reconciling with the guilt
Speaker 1: that black women have. Like you know, one of the
Speaker 1: one of the spaces that I follow on Instagram and
Speaker 1: I have talked about on the show is the NAT Ministry. Right,
Speaker 1: I follow the nat Ministry and I am trying to
Speaker 1: you know, take myself off of the hamster wheel, take myself,
Speaker 1: you know, out of this space of unworthiness because my worthiness,
Speaker 1: to your point, being attached to my production level. Right,
Speaker 1: you are worthy, as your therapist said, because you breathe, right,
Speaker 1: because you get up, because we are human. How do
Speaker 1: you you know, how do you help black women understand
Speaker 1: their guilt and how to even recognize that the emotion
Speaker 1: that they're feeling is in fact guilt, is in fact shame,
Speaker 1: and how to maneuver through that. Yeah, part so much
Speaker 1: of it is is about getting them to to go
Speaker 1: back to, especially in a faith time text, go back
Speaker 1: to the truths they know about God, right that, like
Speaker 1: that God is not this petty you know, um angry,
Speaker 1: How could you do that? And look at you, you know,
Speaker 1: with these like scornful like now you now, since you
Speaker 1: did that, I'm going to to to put to let
Speaker 1: ten people get in front of you in the blessing
Speaker 1: line and withhold whatever thing you desire to want it
Speaker 1: like that's not who God is, um and and getting
Speaker 1: sisters to move from from from a space where they
Speaker 1: associate God's disappointment or society's disappointment with God and getting
Speaker 1: them to see it may not have been the best
Speaker 1: decision that you should have made right, And at the
Speaker 1: same time, you are not the only person in the
Speaker 1: world who has ever made a bad decision or not
Speaker 1: an optimal decision. And the grace for you is in
Speaker 1: that right, and the grace for you is in exploring
Speaker 1: the wisdom that came from making the decision that you
Speaker 1: did right. What did you learn about yourself? What can
Speaker 1: you apply as you move forward? How do you align?
Speaker 1: How do you allow for what you learned about yourself
Speaker 1: who you've discovered yourself to be, to align with who
Speaker 1: you want to be and who you desire to be,
Speaker 1: and asking those questions and also reconciling with this is
Speaker 1: actually the space in which God dwells and wants us
Speaker 1: to dwell like that. How could you do it? Oh?
Speaker 1: My god? How dare you like? That's where people are judgmental, shady,
Speaker 1: petty people. Their life was on a summer jam screen.
Speaker 1: They would be looking, they would be trying to find
Speaker 1: the nearest exit. Right, let's be clear, right, But God
Speaker 1: dwells in the Yeah, that wasn't the best move, right,
Speaker 1: But you live to see another day, and hopefully when
Speaker 1: you get to make the next move you make it
Speaker 1: with more wisdom, and you make it with more grace
Speaker 1: for yourself. Again, as you just said, that tends that
Speaker 1: is so much easier to say, and it takes a
Speaker 1: lot of unlearning, right that even I have to I
Speaker 1: have to. I have black us all we are working
Speaker 1: from home and I have these sticky notes on on
Speaker 1: my computer screen where I have to remember my mind
Speaker 1: myself in those moments. Stay in your time zone, like
Speaker 1: stay where you are, stay present in the moment, and
Speaker 1: don't go back and think how could I have done this?
Speaker 1: Or don't go too far ahead that you don't allow
Speaker 1: yourself to stay where you are, get what you need
Speaker 1: out of the moment, deal with whatever you gotta deal with,
Speaker 1: and equip yourself to move forward in a much more
Speaker 1: healthier whole way. I think, I think we my my hope.
Speaker 1: And what what I wrote really theology for was to
Speaker 1: help us as sisters take ourselves off the hook. Like, yes,
Speaker 1: we can be entirely. We can be so hard on
Speaker 1: ourselves that it doesn't matter if other people love us,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter if other people see the best
Speaker 1: of us. We can be so hard on ourselves that
Speaker 1: if we don't see it if it doesn't matter right,
Speaker 1: and like I want us to to get to a
Speaker 1: point where we're like, wait a minute, like I am human.
Speaker 1: I don't have to adopt the super the superhuman black woman,
Speaker 1: you know, traits strong black woman traits that everybody says
Speaker 1: that I have to. I don't have to go to
Speaker 1: church and lie and say I'm blessed, a highly favorite
Speaker 1: when I literally want to cuss everybody out and I
Speaker 1: don't feel blessed. I don't have to force myself to
Speaker 1: praise my way through situations and circumstances when I am crying,
Speaker 1: when I am despondent, Like I get to say, God,
Speaker 1: this is some bull Like I get to say that, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I get to say I didn't expect to be here again,
Speaker 1: like like I have to say that very clearly. I
Speaker 1: don't like it. I ain't expect to be here. You say,
Speaker 1: you control all things. Why you ain't see this coming
Speaker 1: and help me? I didn't want to be here again.
Speaker 1: Like I was telling someone the other day because they
Speaker 1: we were on a zoom and she was like, how
Speaker 1: do you how do you pray? I said, just like
Speaker 1: how I'm talking to you, Mike, exactly how I'm talking
Speaker 1: to you because God created me to be me, like
Speaker 1: like in kind of relationship, you are supposed to bring
Speaker 1: your authentic, honest, truthful self to a relationship, Like I
Speaker 1: don't need to come to God poise, prettim our Father
Speaker 1: making sure all of my words are over annanciated and
Speaker 1: using all of the scriptures and all of these because
Speaker 1: that's not how I talk and that's not me. Like
Speaker 1: when I'm grateful God you did that, and thank you,
Speaker 1: like you made a way out of a way because
Speaker 1: it was looking scary for your girl and you came through.
Speaker 1: Thank you. And when I am broken and when I
Speaker 1: am hurting, God, I didn't think I didn't see this coming,
Speaker 1: help me because I didn't see it coming, right, Like
Speaker 1: it matters for us to be human, and because that
Speaker 1: is the only thing that we can be, is human,
Speaker 1: because that is what we are. It's you know, Candice,
Speaker 1: I have to say, I am so thankful. I have
Speaker 1: such gratitude for you coming on to woke a f
Speaker 1: um because we have been you know, I've been trying
Speaker 1: to have conversations at very I'm not a religious person.
Speaker 1: I have always said that I am a spiritual person
Speaker 1: and as a matter of fact has become more so
Speaker 1: UM over the last couple of years, and I think
Speaker 1: that that's just by virtue of having sense and dealing
Speaker 1: with the times that we are in UM to find
Speaker 1: find ways to ground UM. And I just I am
Speaker 1: so thankful to you for writing this book, for sharing
Speaker 1: this book and forming on the show. I hope that
Speaker 1: I hope that you come back so we can have
Speaker 1: more conversations about faith, about what it means to love
Speaker 1: ourselves and to you know, love God, connect with the universe,
Speaker 1: you know, and uncouple ourselves from shame and guilt, because
Speaker 1: I think that that is so incredibly important, particularly now, folks.
Speaker 1: The book is Red Lip Theology for church girls who've
Speaker 1: considered tithing to the beauty supply store when Sunday morning
Speaker 1: isn't enough. Candice Marie Benvo, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: making the time for us. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Speaker 1: That is it for me today. Friends on Woke a
Speaker 1: FP as always, Power to the people and to all
Speaker 1: the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.