WEBVTT - Red Lip Theology 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:14.680 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wikay f Daily with 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:20.759 Meet your Girl, Danielle Moody recording Yes from the Brooklyn Bunker. Folks. 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:24.480 In my conversations, I have often said that I am 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:28.080 not a religious person. I do not subscribe to any 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:33.440 organized religion. But I am a spiritual person. And I 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:35.920 have found that over the last couple of years, and 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:38.159 maybe at his age, or maybe it's the times that 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:41.360 we are living in that I have become more grounded 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:45.560 in a spiritual practice, one that makes me feel aligned, 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:55.520 grounds me in times filled with numerous tempests. And I 0:00:55.640 --> 0:01:00.880 often nowadays love to get into conversations with people who 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:05.319 are who have made their their profession, their life, their work, 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:13.600 about their dedication to spirit, to God, to the universe. Right. 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:16.800 I have over the past couple of years, you know, 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:26.120 interviewed various folks who write about religion, religious scholars, yogi's, 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:33.039 people that are practicing a variety of connection. And so 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:39.720 I was really excited and happy to get the opportunity 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:45.520 to speak with Candice Marie Benbo whose new book Red 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.520 Lip Theology for church girls who have considered tithing to 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:54.160 the beauty Supply Store. When Sunday isn't enough in her 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:59.520 journey about what it means to be a black woman, 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:04.680 what it means to create an environment that is about 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:12.960 self care, self love in response to a world that 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.480 refuses to see us, to see us as worthy outside 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:20.200 of what it is that we can produce for them. 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:25.720 And Candice is a theologian, and she is a self 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:32.520 described church girl who grew up in the Black church, 0:02:32.840 --> 0:02:42.280 which has its own kinds of imbalances. Right. The reason 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:45.560 why she named the book read Lip Theology, and she 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:49.960 will tell you in our conversation coming up next, is 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:54.800 because of the dictations and the prescriptions that black women 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:58.120 must follow inside of the church to look the right 0:02:58.200 --> 0:03:02.160 way right. And a red lip that I wear all 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:08.640 the time does not show your chastity, does not show 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:16.080 your servitude. Right. And she talks about in this book 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:22.680 in such a thoughtful way about what it means to 0:03:22.880 --> 0:03:29.600 understand yourself and your own relationship to God. She'll talk about, 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:33.120 you know, a person asking her, well, how do you 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:37.400 pray right? And her response is, well, I pray the 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:40.320 same way that I'm talking to you. I don't need 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:45.560 to show up prim and proper right and reciting you know, 0:03:46.000 --> 0:03:49.960 the text in with the proper enunciations and in the 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.520 perfect way for God to understand me. God created me, 0:03:53.720 --> 0:04:00.960 He created us, right. She goes on to say, you know, 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:04.120 he knows who I am, and so if I can't 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:08.720 talk and be in conversation with God in the way 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:12.360 that I am with my loved ones, with my friends, 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:18.920 then what am I doing? The foreword of this book 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:24.440 is written by one of my friends, and the reason, 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:30.159 the person really behind why I strive to educate in 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:33.520 the way that I do, and why I ever got 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:39.240 on television Melissa Harris Perry. Now, for many of you 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:45.920 old heads of MSNBC, Melissa Harris Perry had the weekend 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:52.440 show and it was called Nerdland where we would gather 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:55.039 and she would create a syllabus to kind of run 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:58.880 us through with some of the most profound and overlooked 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:04.640 intellectuals at that time to TV to talk not just 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:12.000 about you know, issues, but to really try to figure 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:15.520 out how to understand right, how to learn. You left 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:20.000 the show feeling smarter, right, not just wrapped up in rage, 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:23.280 but you felt like you learned something. And you really 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:27.720 can't say that right about a lot that is on 0:05:27.760 --> 0:05:36.960 television right now and Melissa is the reason why I 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.760 try not to only create a platform that is about 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:45.520 us coming together over our own grievances about this country 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:49.400 and our desire for it to be better, but why 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:56.960 I try to offer voices and conversations and exposure to 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:02.800 people to themes, to ideas that are purposefully, in my 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:08.000 humble opinion, left out of the mainstream. And so Melissa 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:14.120 wrote the foreword for Candice's book, and one of the 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:26.480 things that she wrote is this, navigating a whole entire 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:31.679 complicated cray morality, play of righteousness and rouged lips every 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:35.960 time you step up to the makeup counter is exhausting. Surely, 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:39.320 black women, who shoulder more than our fair share of 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:44.360 child rearing, church building, community gathering, bag securing, and way 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:48.680 making deserve a God better than some petty, distant patriarch 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:56.920 patriarch policing our lip color. Black girls deserve a magnificent, loving, imminent, 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:00.480 and chill God. We need a God who loves our 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:03.719 minds when we make deans list and when we piece 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:07.440 out on the PhD. We need a God who loves 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:10.760 our hearts, even when they are broken as a result 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:15.880 of our foreseeably foolish choices. We know God will not 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:19.520 shield us from agony when we lose our Mamma, and 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:23.920 will not always guard us from the evil of sexual assault. 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:27.240 But we need a God big enough to send our 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:32.000 BFFs to our grieving chamber, to gently lure us to 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:35.400 the makeup counter, and to help us choose a red 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:40.440 lipstick so that we can see ourselves again. We not 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.800 only need a God who loves black girls, we need 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:49.680 a God who likes us, us, regular black girls with 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:55.600 nappy hair, big hips, and red lips. Candice Marie Benbo's 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:59.280 red lip theology is a roadmap to where we might 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:09.640 find the God we need. I think that in times 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:23.480 of great fear, anxiety, grief, anger, it is normal to 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:32.360 challenge your relationships to God, to the universe, to a 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:42.040 higher being, and to ask questions like, hey, are you listening? 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:46.680 Why does evil always win? Hey? God, Hey Universe? When 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:50.040 are we going to vibrate higher and align with our 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:53.360 better selves? When are we going to see the actual 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:59.040 better angels prevail in the way that scripture right, regardless 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:05.920 of what you prescribe, says it will. And for me, 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:11.560 the past couple of years have been ones where I 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:17.280 am trying to align myself with something other than anger, 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:23.320 with something other than the tangible, because sometimes what can 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:31.280 be felt, seen and heard is really heartbreaking, is really trying. 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:37.040 And I think that it is important for us to 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:41.920 recognize that we are but specs of dust in the 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:49.400 larger scheme of things, and that our time is actually fleeting. Right, 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:53.480 And so what does it mean to live a life 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:59.080 that is bold? That is bold just for sents of being, 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:02.360 not because of what it is that you produce or 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:06.800 what it is that you can provide, but by virtue 0:10:06.800 --> 0:10:12.320 of your just existence. Right, we have been tricked into 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:18.760 believing that we are only worthy right of praise from 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:22.720 up high if in fact we live our lives in 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:26.000 some type of rigid fashion, if in fact we do 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.280 these things that have been written down by God knows who, 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:33.480 when and for what purpose. I say that I have 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.760 never prescribed to organized religion because I believe much in 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:40.240 the same ways as government. It is about control. It 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:44.439 is about us giving up our own will and our 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:51.120 own power to something else. Right, that if left to 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:54.280 our own devices, then there would just be mayhem. So 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:59.440 there was this construction of this being that for some 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:06.840 people is about God fearing right but for others, is 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:12.480 it about the expansiveness of what it means to love right, 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:20.840 even in the face of cruelty of hardship. So I 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.760 hope that you all enjoy the conversation that I have 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:29.559 with Candice. And this book is specifically, you know, written 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.840 with eyes on black women and girls, but it is 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:45.560 for everybody, for allies as well. We're in a really 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:51.480 tough place and I think that we need to be 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:56.839 sharpening all of the tools in our toolboxes to help 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.400 us be able to make it to the other side, 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:05.760 whatever that other side. Maybe you know I said yesterday 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:10.199 in what was my very solemn opening to the show, 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:18.480 that I'm kind of still feeling today is what is 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:20.800 it going to take for us to really make it? 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.280 And when we say make it, what is it that 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:33.559 we actually mean When everything around you is failing, where 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:41.040 do you go? Right? And what I have found myself 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:46.440 doing over the course of these last several years is 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:55.920 going within, is tightening my circle, my tribe of a 0:12:55.920 --> 0:13:02.800 handful of friends and family allow me to be my 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:11.319 fully messy, complex layered emotional self and hold that hold 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.880 that space for me. And I think that what is 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:19.480 really beautiful about Candice's book is that she is holding 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:25.000 space for Black women and girls who don't often get space, 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:31.319 not even inside of our own churches, of our own homes, 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:38.840 of our own communities. And so it's an offering right 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:46.200 for us to come back home to ourselves and to 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:54.880 recognizing the beauty of who we are and allowing ourselves 0:13:54.920 --> 0:14:02.760 to love ourselves despite whatever the outside projection and stereotypes 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:11.160 hateful comments that may always plague us. There is a 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:18.200 beauty in black women that and I say this in 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:21.480 an interview, that there are people way smarter than me, 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:26.800 way more studied than me, throughout history that have stated 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:30.320 the truth about how this country, how this world sees 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:36.520 black women, how they feel like they are in the 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:44.480 right to dictate our looks, the way we talk, how 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:49.000 we hold emotion, you know, how we're able to express 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:54.480 ourselves and trying to strive to reach some ideal sense 0:14:54.600 --> 0:15:00.960 of beauty or demurnis that we will never meet. And 0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:05.200 so in this book, I think that Candice make space 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.160 for Black women and girls to meet themselves where they 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.880 are and to connect with a higher power where they are, 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:19.880 and also how we make ourselves up right, how we 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:24.720 cover ourselves with certain types of armor, including a red 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:29.960 lip to meet the world that is not always welcoming 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:34.080 towards us. So coming up next is my conversation with 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:40.600 theologian and author whose book drops today, Red Lip Theology, 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:48.240 Candice Marie Benbo. Go and pick it up, folks. I 0:15:48.280 --> 0:15:53.320 am very excited to welcome to wok F Daily for 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:58.240 the very first time, theologian and author of I mean, 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:00.680 look at this. I just folks, I just want like, 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:03.680 look at this, Look at this cover. It's so bomb, 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:08.200 author of the book Red Lip Theology for church girls 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.520 who've considered tithing to the beauty supply store when Sunday 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:16.800 morning isn't enough, Candice Bembo. I mean, first of all, 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:22.160 the cover, the content, um, the fact that you have 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:24.400 my girl, the reason why I do the work that 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:29.920 I do. Melissa Harris Perry, writing your forward, I was like, oh, 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:36.000 so yes, so yes, okay certified, so yes, um, tell 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:41.600 me about the the idea behind the book. How how 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:45.000 did you come to this place? Because it's it's it's 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.240 deep red. And the funny thing is I wear red 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.200 lipstick all the time and it had it had become 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:56.080 my my my armor and my and my weapon of choice. 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.920 Beginning in twenty twenty. Um, I don't know. I don't 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:03.560 even know. Beginning to read this, I started thinking to myself, 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:07.200 was this like a real conscious decision that I made? 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.520 Like this is this another form of rebellion? But please 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:16.520 tell me about your how you came to this book. Well, 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:18.960 thank you first for having me. I'm so excited to 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:23.600 be here. I came to really theology one because at 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:27.680 the time that I was in seminary I was coming 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:32.720 out of a failed relationship and my best friend came 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.879 to see me and she was like, you look like 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:37.919 what you've been through and you do not look like 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:41.760 my best friend. So she was like, we love best 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.199 friends for that. Listen. She was like, I need you 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:47.840 to get it together. And part of what she made 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:52.840 me promise to do was make my face every day, 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:57.560 put more emphasis and interest in what I wore, just 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:01.640 my overall appearance. And so as I committed to doing that, 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:07.280 I was also in seminary learning doing a much more 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:11.600 deep theological dive than I've ever done before as part 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:16.520 of theological education, and I just I had a commitment 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:21.960 that I felt like black women, especially younger black women, 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:27.879 deserve to have faith conversations rooted in our own experiences, 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:34.040 and so too often we're listening to black men who 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:39.560 don't really hear us or center us first. And so 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:42.680 I was like, when it came to thinking through, like, 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:46.800 how do how do we have conversations that put us 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:50.760 at the center and make us, you know, and our 0:18:50.840 --> 0:18:55.879 experiences the object of exploration. That's really how real theology 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:59.800 came to life. You know, I think that, I mean, 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:04.159 we know right that black women and black girls have 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:06.880 so many barriers that are placed in front of them, 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:12.120 have so many dictations about our body, our hair, our speech, 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:16.520 our addiction, right, our presence, and I think, you know, 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:22.720 the the decision to take on, even within the context 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:26.640 of our own community and church, the dictations that are 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:32.960 really rooted in what is it respectability politics, right of 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:35.680 how of how women should learn and how they should 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:41.760 show up. As a self professed church girl, how do you, 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:44.760 at one hand, because I know that you have been 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:47.520 grappling with a lot, how do you want, one hand, 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:52.959 you know, respect the Christianity that you have been reared in, 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:58.840 but also push against some of the notions that have 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:01.679 been proclaimed as truth that are in fact rooted in 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:05.680 respectability politics. And really, you know, if I may say, 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:09.920 white supremacy and the idea that if we look good, 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:13.520 if we look better, right, then we will be accepted. 0:20:13.800 --> 0:20:17.000 Right then then then then we will we will be 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:21.480 seen as worthy. Yeah, I think part of it is 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:26.280 getting to a place where you recognize an honor. That that 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:31.520 that be respectability politics, that the anti blackness, that the 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:36.400 white supremacist grounding, that so much of what we've been 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:42.080 taught is not actually scripture, right, like when you when 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:46.480 you when you really look at Jesus's life, when you 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:50.000 look at who Jesus rolled with, like the way that 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:53.840 he taught in parables, like he was teaching us how 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:58.240 to live in community with each other, how to hold 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:03.600 each other accountable, and how to honor each other's particularities. Right. 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:09.000 And so that doesn't mean that you tell me how 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:12.639 I need to dress in order to be appropriate for 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:16.760 church space right now. It may mean you do as 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:20.000 my best friend did. And when you see me not 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:22.679 living up to my potential and who you know that 0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:24.919 I can be, that's when you pull me to the 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:29.280 side and say, hey, like, what what's really going on here? Right? 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:33.879 And so part of why I've been able to hold 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:38.280 the tension is because I know and believe what the 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:42.040 church can be when it's at its best, when it 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:47.879 holds space for our complexities, when it holds space to 0:21:48.040 --> 0:21:51.960 honor who we can be, Like I know one who 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:54.880 we could be if we push it in that space. 0:21:55.320 --> 0:21:58.520 And too, I hold to the truth that what we 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:04.159 have seen isn't who isn't what Christ wants for us 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:06.760 as it looks at the church, and especially as it 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:10.480 relates to black girls and women, right like, when we 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:13.400 look at the church, who is literally who is really 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:18.800 running the church? Sisters? Like if sisters sat down and 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:22.600 decided not to pay tides, decided not to work in 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:29.240 churches just one sunday, we wouldn't have church like And 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:34.200 so then it becomes what does the institution old to 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:37.760 Black girls and women as it relates to how it 0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:41.080 treats us just by virtue of the work that we 0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:44.520 continue to do in this way. You know, it's so 0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:47.920 funny because even if you were to take this out 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:49.960 of the context of the church and take it into 0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:55.120 you know, a corporate workplace or a nonprofit workplace, what 0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:58.359 you're talking about in terms of the work that women 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:02.040 do Black women do in the church is considered soft skills, right, 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:04.560 It's it's what the soft skills are in the workplace. 0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:08.280 But if you don't tap into those soft skills, if 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:11.120 those people decide, those women in the workplace decide I'm 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:13.480 not going to make sure that there is food in 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:15.600 the fridge, I'm not going to clean up, I'm not 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:19.000 going to check in on so and so, then what happens? Right, Like, 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:23.760 we don't see the work that is being done as 0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:27.520 the infrastructure, right like you would. The layout of your 0:23:27.640 --> 0:23:31.400 of your contents um in the book is about how 0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:35.119 we layer our faces right, and you know, and the 0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:39.480 foundation of any good makeup right is good scan. So 0:23:39.600 --> 0:23:43.000 when you're in first you know in your in your 0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:47.520 first chapter, you know we are we we are good creation. 0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:49.560 And I just want to and I just want to 0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:53.000 just like read it for the audience. My skin tells 0:23:53.000 --> 0:23:56.320 all my business. When I'm embarrassed, angry or stressed, when 0:23:56.359 --> 0:23:58.840 I'm not taking care of myself and need water, my 0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:01.720 skin is the mean I can't escape. And taking care 0:24:01.720 --> 0:24:04.240 of my skin and shores, I become a person worthy 0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:09.400 of my time and attention. That really grabs me, right 0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:15.000 because I think that right now, Candice too particularly we 0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:19.280 as black women are really I think as a whole 0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:23.000 deciding that we're not waiting to take care of ourselves. 0:24:23.240 --> 0:24:26.400 Like from from you know, from our sister Tomes of 0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:32.080 Essence magazine, you know, and on, you get this sense 0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:35.840 that we are all in this same collective experience of 0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:39.159 you're not going to suck me dry, right like that, 0:24:39.240 --> 0:24:42.679 because that's what I that's that's how I interpret what 0:24:42.800 --> 0:24:45.600 I just read is that this this life, this work, 0:24:45.760 --> 0:24:49.879 this um finger waving, whether it's coming from the church 0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:52.280 elders or it's coming from my boss, like you are 0:24:52.359 --> 0:24:54.920 not going to suck me dry. I am going to 0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:58.800 stay hydrated. I'm going to stay in my in my 0:24:58.920 --> 0:25:03.720 skin right right. Yeah. Like it's so funny that you 0:25:03.760 --> 0:25:05.840 said that, because I've been thinking a lot about it 0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:11.280 in the wake of the Great Resignation right where everybody 0:25:11.400 --> 0:25:16.639 leaving to choose better for themselves. Like there there is 0:25:16.680 --> 0:25:22.880 a moment where we're in where black women are saying 0:25:23.600 --> 0:25:28.080 we have options and we have no problem exercising them. 0:25:28.480 --> 0:25:31.920 Come on, and you are not going to make me 0:25:32.119 --> 0:25:37.479 feel like I have to abide by what you say, 0:25:37.560 --> 0:25:41.639 Like you're just not going to do that. Yeah, And 0:25:42.080 --> 0:25:45.479 what you know, I think about that because part of 0:25:45.560 --> 0:25:50.439 the conversation around the Great resignation, right, because I've been 0:25:50.440 --> 0:25:53.320 talking about this unwokeapp a lot is a lot, right, 0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:56.840 it's a lie of the workers being lazy. People don't 0:25:56.880 --> 0:25:59.400 want to work, and so they're just opting out, right, 0:25:59.600 --> 0:26:02.719 it's a lie. No, like you said, people are not 0:26:02.760 --> 0:26:05.680 opting out because they are lazy. They are alloped. They 0:26:05.680 --> 0:26:10.400 are opting into better lives and livelihoods, right, They're they're 0:26:10.400 --> 0:26:15.119 opting into um, recognizing their own personal worth and that 0:26:15.320 --> 0:26:18.640 not being dictated to them by their bank accounts, right 0:26:19.400 --> 0:26:22.840 or lack thereof. And and so I think that it's 0:26:23.080 --> 0:26:28.760 you know, what is it about black women though in 0:26:28.840 --> 0:26:32.679 particular that has us? And you know it is it 0:26:32.720 --> 0:26:36.280 has been said by by way more you know, smarter 0:26:36.359 --> 0:26:40.520 people than myself, Black women, you know, the mules of 0:26:40.520 --> 0:26:43.159 the world. You know this bridge called my back, like 0:26:43.480 --> 0:26:45.520 all of you know, like all of these things have 0:26:45.680 --> 0:26:47.840 been true, they have been rooted in truth. We are 0:26:47.880 --> 0:26:51.840 the workhorses, right, the workhorses of democracy, all of these things. 0:26:52.280 --> 0:26:55.280 What is it though, that you think is intrensit in 0:26:55.600 --> 0:27:00.240 usum that has us show up in that way right, 0:27:00.240 --> 0:27:04.159 that we are having to unlearn this labor that we 0:27:04.240 --> 0:27:06.679 have taken on or that has been put on us, 0:27:06.720 --> 0:27:10.320 because it's a both and I mean to be honest, Danielle, 0:27:10.480 --> 0:27:12.640 I do think, and that's part of the reason why 0:27:12.680 --> 0:27:17.720 I wrote Relic Theology is because I do think that 0:27:17.800 --> 0:27:26.280 it is rooted in a centuries long belief that we 0:27:26.359 --> 0:27:30.960 have to work in order to be worthy, right, that 0:27:31.600 --> 0:27:37.280 we have to that what we produce, how people see 0:27:37.359 --> 0:27:42.560 us as expendable, how people see us as valuable, determines 0:27:42.680 --> 0:27:48.160 how we should see ourselves. And we've seen it in church, 0:27:48.359 --> 0:27:51.520 right like we've seen it. That's how, that's how. So 0:27:51.640 --> 0:27:57.399 much of a lot of this work around walking away 0:27:57.480 --> 0:28:03.320 from front spaces that don't serve us is also about 0:28:03.480 --> 0:28:08.879 walking away from shame. And we don't quote unquote do 0:28:09.000 --> 0:28:13.200 the things that people expect us to do. Right. So 0:28:13.480 --> 0:28:18.080 you have a moment where say you you you made 0:28:18.080 --> 0:28:22.480 a decision, or say you do something that may not 0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:24.960 have worked out the way you thought it was. The 0:28:24.960 --> 0:28:29.320 way sisters internalize the shame of I should have known better, 0:28:29.760 --> 0:28:32.119 Why did I do that? You know? The way that 0:28:32.160 --> 0:28:39.720 we do all of that is so rooted, and if 0:28:39.760 --> 0:28:43.680 I would have done it and been productive. Then people 0:28:43.720 --> 0:28:47.640 would see me as worthy now because I didn't do it, 0:28:47.840 --> 0:28:50.840 or because it didn't show up the way that I 0:28:50.920 --> 0:28:55.040 thought it was. There's there's a certain level of worth 0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:58.560 that's detached from me and I and we've seen it, 0:28:59.560 --> 0:29:03.000 and I'm moms, we've seen it, you know. And our 0:29:03.040 --> 0:29:06.720 grandmother's Like I had a conversation with my with my 0:29:06.840 --> 0:29:10.440 grandmother where we were talking about, you know, the power 0:29:10.600 --> 0:29:15.200 that sisters have now to walk away from relationships, not 0:29:15.480 --> 0:29:19.840 because not because he's he is a bad guy, but 0:29:19.960 --> 0:29:24.160 just because I'm not thriving in it anymore. Yeah, and 0:29:24.200 --> 0:29:28.040 I'm deserted. It used to be well did it beat you? Right? 0:29:28.520 --> 0:29:33.280 Like it's just like so it physical abuse is the 0:29:33.360 --> 0:29:36.000 only thing that can get me to least, is it? 0:29:36.320 --> 0:29:39.240 You know? And my grandma that is exactly what my 0:29:39.280 --> 0:29:43.240 grandma said. She was like, y'all are saying like I'm 0:29:43.280 --> 0:29:46.080 just not happy no more. I'm waking up and I'm 0:29:46.120 --> 0:29:48.440 not happy. I'm not I don't want to be here. 0:29:48.760 --> 0:29:52.440 And she said, when I was growing up, it wasn't 0:29:52.440 --> 0:29:54.560 you left because he might have had an affair and 0:29:54.600 --> 0:29:59.640 an outside child. You only could leave if you put 0:29:59.640 --> 0:30:03.040 his hands scime because she was like, if you left 0:30:03.800 --> 0:30:07.200 while he just because he cheated, that didn't mean he 0:30:07.280 --> 0:30:10.200 wasn't a good provider. That didn't mean he couldn't be 0:30:10.240 --> 0:30:13.160 a good dad to his kids in your house. And 0:30:13.200 --> 0:30:18.040 so we were having this conversation about how excited at 0:30:18.120 --> 0:30:23.160 eighty seven she is at the option that we like, No, 0:30:23.520 --> 0:30:27.520 like he a good dude, He's just not good for me, right, 0:30:28.000 --> 0:30:30.480 but he's not. He's not the great one for me. 0:30:30.960 --> 0:30:34.480 And I think that we're also in a moment where 0:30:34.560 --> 0:30:38.680 sisters are applying that to other areas of our lives, right, 0:30:38.760 --> 0:30:42.800 Like we're looking at friendships differently, Like we're looking at 0:30:42.880 --> 0:30:47.080 work differently, We're looking at other kinds of relationships, like 0:30:47.360 --> 0:30:53.600 how how do I get to wake up every day, 0:30:54.160 --> 0:30:57.160 show up as my full self, get to do the 0:30:57.200 --> 0:30:59.840 work that allows me to be my full self and 0:31:00.160 --> 0:31:03.640 to be in the spaces and relationships that allow me 0:31:03.680 --> 0:31:06.400 to be my full self for no other reason than 0:31:06.480 --> 0:31:11.640 because I deserve it. Like, I mean, my God, that 0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:17.040 seems so simple and yet so damn revolutionary. I'm like, wait, 0:31:17.440 --> 0:31:23.280 just just because just because I am listen, just because like, 0:31:23.280 --> 0:31:26.040