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Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wikay f Daily with

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Speaker 1: Meet your Girl, Danielle Moody recording Yes from the Brooklyn Bunker. Folks.

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Speaker 1: In my conversations, I have often said that I am

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Speaker 1: not a religious person. I do not subscribe to any

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Speaker 1: organized religion. But I am a spiritual person. And I

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Speaker 1: have found that over the last couple of years, and

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Speaker 1: maybe at his age, or maybe it's the times that

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Speaker 1: we are living in that I have become more grounded

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Speaker 1: in a spiritual practice, one that makes me feel aligned,

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Speaker 1: grounds me in times filled with numerous tempests. And I

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Speaker 1: often nowadays love to get into conversations with people who

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Speaker 1: are who have made their their profession, their life, their work,

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Speaker 1: about their dedication to spirit, to God, to the universe. Right.

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Speaker 1: I have over the past couple of years, you know,

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Speaker 1: interviewed various folks who write about religion, religious scholars, yogi's,

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Speaker 1: people that are practicing a variety of connection. And so

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Speaker 1: I was really excited and happy to get the opportunity

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Speaker 1: to speak with Candice Marie Benbo whose new book Red

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Speaker 1: Lip Theology for church girls who have considered tithing to

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Speaker 1: the beauty Supply Store. When Sunday isn't enough in her

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Speaker 1: journey about what it means to be a black woman,

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Speaker 1: what it means to create an environment that is about

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Speaker 1: self care, self love in response to a world that

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Speaker 1: refuses to see us, to see us as worthy outside

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Speaker 1: of what it is that we can produce for them.

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Speaker 1: And Candice is a theologian, and she is a self

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Speaker 1: described church girl who grew up in the Black church,

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Speaker 1: which has its own kinds of imbalances. Right. The reason

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Speaker 1: why she named the book read Lip Theology, and she

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Speaker 1: will tell you in our conversation coming up next, is

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Speaker 1: because of the dictations and the prescriptions that black women

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Speaker 1: must follow inside of the church to look the right

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Speaker 1: way right. And a red lip that I wear all

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Speaker 1: the time does not show your chastity, does not show

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Speaker 1: your servitude. Right. And she talks about in this book

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Speaker 1: in such a thoughtful way about what it means to

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Speaker 1: understand yourself and your own relationship to God. She'll talk about,

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Speaker 1: you know, a person asking her, well, how do you

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Speaker 1: pray right? And her response is, well, I pray the

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Speaker 1: same way that I'm talking to you. I don't need

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Speaker 1: to show up prim and proper right and reciting you know,

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Speaker 1: the text in with the proper enunciations and in the

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Speaker 1: perfect way for God to understand me. God created me,

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Speaker 1: He created us, right. She goes on to say, you know,

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Speaker 1: he knows who I am, and so if I can't

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Speaker 1: talk and be in conversation with God in the way

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Speaker 1: that I am with my loved ones, with my friends,

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Speaker 1: then what am I doing? The foreword of this book

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Speaker 1: is written by one of my friends, and the reason,

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Speaker 1: the person really behind why I strive to educate in

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Speaker 1: the way that I do, and why I ever got

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Speaker 1: on television Melissa Harris Perry. Now, for many of you

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Speaker 1: old heads of MSNBC, Melissa Harris Perry had the weekend

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Speaker 1: show and it was called Nerdland where we would gather

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Speaker 1: and she would create a syllabus to kind of run

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Speaker 1: us through with some of the most profound and overlooked

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Speaker 1: intellectuals at that time to TV to talk not just

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Speaker 1: about you know, issues, but to really try to figure

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Speaker 1: out how to understand right, how to learn. You left

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Speaker 1: the show feeling smarter, right, not just wrapped up in rage,

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Speaker 1: but you felt like you learned something. And you really

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Speaker 1: can't say that right about a lot that is on

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Speaker 1: television right now and Melissa is the reason why I

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Speaker 1: try not to only create a platform that is about

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Speaker 1: us coming together over our own grievances about this country

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Speaker 1: and our desire for it to be better, but why

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Speaker 1: I try to offer voices and conversations and exposure to

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Speaker 1: people to themes, to ideas that are purposefully, in my

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Speaker 1: humble opinion, left out of the mainstream. And so Melissa

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Speaker 1: wrote the foreword for Candice's book, and one of the

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Speaker 1: things that she wrote is this, navigating a whole entire

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Speaker 1: complicated cray morality, play of righteousness and rouged lips every

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Speaker 1: time you step up to the makeup counter is exhausting. Surely,

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Speaker 1: black women, who shoulder more than our fair share of

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Speaker 1: child rearing, church building, community gathering, bag securing, and way

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Speaker 1: making deserve a God better than some petty, distant patriarch

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Speaker 1: patriarch policing our lip color. Black girls deserve a magnificent, loving, imminent,

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Speaker 1: and chill God. We need a God who loves our

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Speaker 1: minds when we make deans list and when we piece

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Speaker 1: out on the PhD. We need a God who loves

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Speaker 1: our hearts, even when they are broken as a result

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Speaker 1: of our foreseeably foolish choices. We know God will not

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Speaker 1: shield us from agony when we lose our Mamma, and

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Speaker 1: will not always guard us from the evil of sexual assault.

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Speaker 1: But we need a God big enough to send our

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Speaker 1: BFFs to our grieving chamber, to gently lure us to

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Speaker 1: the makeup counter, and to help us choose a red

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Speaker 1: lipstick so that we can see ourselves again. We not

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Speaker 1: only need a God who loves black girls, we need

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Speaker 1: a God who likes us, us, regular black girls with

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Speaker 1: nappy hair, big hips, and red lips. Candice Marie Benbo's

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Speaker 1: red lip theology is a roadmap to where we might

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Speaker 1: find the God we need. I think that in times

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Speaker 1: of great fear, anxiety, grief, anger, it is normal to

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Speaker 1: challenge your relationships to God, to the universe, to a

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Speaker 1: higher being, and to ask questions like, hey, are you listening?

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Speaker 1: Why does evil always win? Hey? God, Hey Universe? When

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Speaker 1: are we going to vibrate higher and align with our

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Speaker 1: better selves? When are we going to see the actual

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Speaker 1: better angels prevail in the way that scripture right, regardless

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Speaker 1: of what you prescribe, says it will. And for me,

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Speaker 1: the past couple of years have been ones where I

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Speaker 1: am trying to align myself with something other than anger,

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Speaker 1: with something other than the tangible, because sometimes what can

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Speaker 1: be felt, seen and heard is really heartbreaking, is really trying.

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Speaker 1: And I think that it is important for us to

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Speaker 1: recognize that we are but specs of dust in the

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Speaker 1: larger scheme of things, and that our time is actually fleeting. Right,

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Speaker 1: And so what does it mean to live a life

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Speaker 1: that is bold? That is bold just for sents of being,

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Speaker 1: not because of what it is that you produce or

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Speaker 1: what it is that you can provide, but by virtue

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Speaker 1: of your just existence. Right, we have been tricked into

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Speaker 1: believing that we are only worthy right of praise from

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Speaker 1: up high if in fact we live our lives in

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Speaker 1: some type of rigid fashion, if in fact we do

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Speaker 1: these things that have been written down by God knows who,

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Speaker 1: when and for what purpose. I say that I have

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Speaker 1: never prescribed to organized religion because I believe much in

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Speaker 1: the same ways as government. It is about control. It

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Speaker 1: is about us giving up our own will and our

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Speaker 1: own power to something else. Right, that if left to

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Speaker 1: our own devices, then there would just be mayhem. So

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Speaker 1: there was this construction of this being that for some

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Speaker 1: people is about God fearing right but for others, is

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Speaker 1: it about the expansiveness of what it means to love right,

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Speaker 1: even in the face of cruelty of hardship. So I

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Speaker 1: hope that you all enjoy the conversation that I have

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Speaker 1: with Candice. And this book is specifically, you know, written

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Speaker 1: with eyes on black women and girls, but it is

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Speaker 1: for everybody, for allies as well. We're in a really

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Speaker 1: tough place and I think that we need to be

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Speaker 1: sharpening all of the tools in our toolboxes to help

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Speaker 1: us be able to make it to the other side,

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Speaker 1: whatever that other side. Maybe you know I said yesterday

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Speaker 1: in what was my very solemn opening to the show,

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Speaker 1: that I'm kind of still feeling today is what is

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Speaker 1: it going to take for us to really make it?

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Speaker 1: And when we say make it, what is it that

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Speaker 1: we actually mean When everything around you is failing, where

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Speaker 1: do you go? Right? And what I have found myself

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Speaker 1: doing over the course of these last several years is

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Speaker 1: going within, is tightening my circle, my tribe of a

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Speaker 1: handful of friends and family allow me to be my

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Speaker 1: fully messy, complex layered emotional self and hold that hold

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Speaker 1: that space for me. And I think that what is

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Speaker 1: really beautiful about Candice's book is that she is holding

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Speaker 1: space for Black women and girls who don't often get space,

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Speaker 1: not even inside of our own churches, of our own homes,

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Speaker 1: of our own communities. And so it's an offering right

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Speaker 1: for us to come back home to ourselves and to

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Speaker 1: recognizing the beauty of who we are and allowing ourselves

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Speaker 1: to love ourselves despite whatever the outside projection and stereotypes

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Speaker 1: hateful comments that may always plague us. There is a

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Speaker 1: beauty in black women that and I say this in

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Speaker 1: an interview, that there are people way smarter than me,

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Speaker 1: way more studied than me, throughout history that have stated

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Speaker 1: the truth about how this country, how this world sees

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Speaker 1: black women, how they feel like they are in the

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Speaker 1: right to dictate our looks, the way we talk, how

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Speaker 1: we hold emotion, you know, how we're able to express

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Speaker 1: ourselves and trying to strive to reach some ideal sense

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Speaker 1: of beauty or demurnis that we will never meet. And

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Speaker 1: so in this book, I think that Candice make space

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Speaker 1: for Black women and girls to meet themselves where they

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Speaker 1: are and to connect with a higher power where they are,

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Speaker 1: and also how we make ourselves up right, how we

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Speaker 1: cover ourselves with certain types of armor, including a red

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Speaker 1: lip to meet the world that is not always welcoming

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Speaker 1: towards us. So coming up next is my conversation with

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Speaker 1: theologian and author whose book drops today, Red Lip Theology,

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Speaker 1: Candice Marie Benbo. Go and pick it up, folks. I

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Speaker 1: am very excited to welcome to wok F Daily for

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Speaker 1: the very first time, theologian and author of I mean,

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Speaker 1: look at this. I just folks, I just want like,

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Speaker 1: look at this, Look at this cover. It's so bomb,

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Speaker 1: author of the book Red Lip Theology for church girls

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Speaker 1: who've considered tithing to the beauty supply store when Sunday

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Speaker 1: morning isn't enough, Candice Bembo. I mean, first of all,

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Speaker 1: the cover, the content, um, the fact that you have

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Speaker 1: my girl, the reason why I do the work that

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Speaker 1: I do. Melissa Harris Perry, writing your forward, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: so yes, so yes, okay certified, so yes, um, tell

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Speaker 1: me about the the idea behind the book. How how

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Speaker 1: did you come to this place? Because it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: deep red. And the funny thing is I wear red

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Speaker 1: lipstick all the time and it had it had become

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Speaker 1: my my my armor and my and my weapon of choice.

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Speaker 1: Beginning in twenty twenty. Um, I don't know. I don't

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Speaker 1: even know. Beginning to read this, I started thinking to myself,

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Speaker 1: was this like a real conscious decision that I made?

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Speaker 1: Like this is this another form of rebellion? But please

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Speaker 1: tell me about your how you came to this book. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you first for having me. I'm so excited to

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Speaker 1: be here. I came to really theology one because at

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Speaker 1: the time that I was in seminary I was coming

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Speaker 1: out of a failed relationship and my best friend came

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Speaker 1: to see me and she was like, you look like

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Speaker 1: what you've been through and you do not look like

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Speaker 1: my best friend. So she was like, we love best

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Speaker 1: friends for that. Listen. She was like, I need you

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Speaker 1: to get it together. And part of what she made

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Speaker 1: me promise to do was make my face every day,

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Speaker 1: put more emphasis and interest in what I wore, just

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Speaker 1: my overall appearance. And so as I committed to doing that,

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Speaker 1: I was also in seminary learning doing a much more

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Speaker 1: deep theological dive than I've ever done before as part

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Speaker 1: of theological education, and I just I had a commitment

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Speaker 1: that I felt like black women, especially younger black women,

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Speaker 1: deserve to have faith conversations rooted in our own experiences,

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Speaker 1: and so too often we're listening to black men who

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Speaker 1: don't really hear us or center us first. And so

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Speaker 1: I was like, when it came to thinking through, like,

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Speaker 1: how do how do we have conversations that put us

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Speaker 1: at the center and make us, you know, and our

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Speaker 1: experiences the object of exploration. That's really how real theology

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Speaker 1: came to life. You know, I think that, I mean,

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Speaker 1: we know right that black women and black girls have

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Speaker 1: so many barriers that are placed in front of them,

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Speaker 1: have so many dictations about our body, our hair, our speech,

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Speaker 1: our addiction, right, our presence, and I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: the the decision to take on, even within the context

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Speaker 1: of our own community and church, the dictations that are

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Speaker 1: really rooted in what is it respectability politics, right of

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Speaker 1: how of how women should learn and how they should

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Speaker 1: show up. As a self professed church girl, how do you,

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Speaker 1: at one hand, because I know that you have been

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Speaker 1: grappling with a lot, how do you want, one hand,

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Speaker 1: you know, respect the Christianity that you have been reared in,

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Speaker 1: but also push against some of the notions that have

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Speaker 1: been proclaimed as truth that are in fact rooted in

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Speaker 1: respectability politics. And really, you know, if I may say,

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Speaker 1: white supremacy and the idea that if we look good,

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Speaker 1: if we look better, right, then we will be accepted.

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Speaker 1: Right then then then then we will we will be

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Speaker 1: seen as worthy. Yeah, I think part of it is

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Speaker 1: getting to a place where you recognize an honor. That that

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Speaker 1: that be respectability politics, that the anti blackness, that the

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Speaker 1: white supremacist grounding, that so much of what we've been

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Speaker 1: taught is not actually scripture, right, like when you when

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Speaker 1: you when you really look at Jesus's life, when you

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Speaker 1: look at who Jesus rolled with, like the way that

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Speaker 1: he taught in parables, like he was teaching us how

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Speaker 1: to live in community with each other, how to hold

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Speaker 1: each other accountable, and how to honor each other's particularities. Right.

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Speaker 1: And so that doesn't mean that you tell me how

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Speaker 1: I need to dress in order to be appropriate for

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Speaker 1: church space right now. It may mean you do as

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Speaker 1: my best friend did. And when you see me not

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Speaker 1: living up to my potential and who you know that

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Speaker 1: I can be, that's when you pull me to the

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Speaker 1: side and say, hey, like, what what's really going on here? Right?

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Speaker 1: And so part of why I've been able to hold

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Speaker 1: the tension is because I know and believe what the

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Speaker 1: church can be when it's at its best, when it

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Speaker 1: holds space for our complexities, when it holds space to

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Speaker 1: honor who we can be, Like I know one who

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Speaker 1: we could be if we push it in that space.

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Speaker 1: And too, I hold to the truth that what we

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Speaker 1: have seen isn't who isn't what Christ wants for us

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Speaker 1: as it looks at the church, and especially as it

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Speaker 1: relates to black girls and women, right like, when we

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Speaker 1: look at the church, who is literally who is really

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Speaker 1: running the church? Sisters? Like if sisters sat down and

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Speaker 1: decided not to pay tides, decided not to work in

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Speaker 1: churches just one sunday, we wouldn't have church like And

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Speaker 1: so then it becomes what does the institution old to

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Speaker 1: Black girls and women as it relates to how it

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Speaker 1: treats us just by virtue of the work that we

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Speaker 1: continue to do in this way. You know, it's so

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Speaker 1: funny because even if you were to take this out

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Speaker 1: of the context of the church and take it into

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Speaker 1: you know, a corporate workplace or a nonprofit workplace, what

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Speaker 1: you're talking about in terms of the work that women

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Speaker 1: do Black women do in the church is considered soft skills, right,

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Speaker 1: It's it's what the soft skills are in the workplace.

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Speaker 1: But if you don't tap into those soft skills, if

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Speaker 1: those people decide, those women in the workplace decide I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to make sure that there is food in

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Speaker 1: the fridge, I'm not going to clean up, I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to check in on so and so, then what happens? Right, Like,

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Speaker 1: we don't see the work that is being done as

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Speaker 1: the infrastructure, right like you would. The layout of your

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Speaker 1: of your contents um in the book is about how

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Speaker 1: we layer our faces right, and you know, and the

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Speaker 1: foundation of any good makeup right is good scan. So

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Speaker 1: when you're in first you know in your in your

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Speaker 1: first chapter, you know we are we we are good creation.

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Speaker 1: And I just want to and I just want to

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Speaker 1: just like read it for the audience. My skin tells

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Speaker 1: all my business. When I'm embarrassed, angry or stressed, when

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Speaker 1: I'm not taking care of myself and need water, my

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Speaker 1: skin is the mean I can't escape. And taking care

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Speaker 1: of my skin and shores, I become a person worthy

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Speaker 1: of my time and attention. That really grabs me, right

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Speaker 1: because I think that right now, Candice too particularly we

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Speaker 1: as black women are really I think as a whole

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Speaker 1: deciding that we're not waiting to take care of ourselves.

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Speaker 1: Like from from you know, from our sister Tomes of

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Speaker 1: Essence magazine, you know, and on, you get this sense

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Speaker 1: that we are all in this same collective experience of

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Speaker 1: you're not going to suck me dry, right like that,

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Speaker 1: because that's what I that's that's how I interpret what

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Speaker 1: I just read is that this this life, this work,

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Speaker 1: this um finger waving, whether it's coming from the church

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Speaker 1: elders or it's coming from my boss, like you are

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Speaker 1: not going to suck me dry. I am going to

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Speaker 1: stay hydrated. I'm going to stay in my in my

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Speaker 1: skin right right. Yeah. Like it's so funny that you

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Speaker 1: said that, because I've been thinking a lot about it

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Speaker 1: in the wake of the Great Resignation right where everybody

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Speaker 1: leaving to choose better for themselves. Like there there is

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Speaker 1: a moment where we're in where black women are saying

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Speaker 1: we have options and we have no problem exercising them.

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Speaker 1: Come on, and you are not going to make me

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Speaker 1: feel like I have to abide by what you say,

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Speaker 1: Like you're just not going to do that. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: what you know, I think about that because part of

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Speaker 1: the conversation around the Great resignation, right, because I've been

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Speaker 1: talking about this unwokeapp a lot is a lot, right,

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Speaker 1: it's a lie of the workers being lazy. People don't

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Speaker 1: want to work, and so they're just opting out, right,

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Speaker 1: it's a lie. No, like you said, people are not

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Speaker 1: opting out because they are lazy. They are alloped. They

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Speaker 1: are opting into better lives and livelihoods, right, They're they're

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Speaker 1: opting into um, recognizing their own personal worth and that

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Speaker 1: not being dictated to them by their bank accounts, right

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Speaker 1: or lack thereof. And and so I think that it's

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Speaker 1: you know, what is it about black women though in

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Speaker 1: particular that has us? And you know it is it

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Speaker 1: has been said by by way more you know, smarter

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Speaker 1: people than myself, Black women, you know, the mules of

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Speaker 1: the world. You know this bridge called my back, like

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Speaker 1: all of you know, like all of these things have

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Speaker 1: been true, they have been rooted in truth. We are

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Speaker 1: the workhorses, right, the workhorses of democracy, all of these things.

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Speaker 1: What is it though, that you think is intrensit in

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Speaker 1: usum that has us show up in that way right,

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Speaker 1: that we are having to unlearn this labor that we

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Speaker 1: have taken on or that has been put on us,

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Speaker 1: because it's a both and I mean to be honest, Danielle,

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Speaker 1: I do think, and that's part of the reason why

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Speaker 1: I wrote Relic Theology is because I do think that

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Speaker 1: it is rooted in a centuries long belief that we

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Speaker 1: have to work in order to be worthy, right, that

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00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: we have to that what we produce, how people see

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Speaker 1: us as expendable, how people see us as valuable, determines

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Speaker 1: how we should see ourselves. And we've seen it in church,

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Speaker 1: right like we've seen it. That's how, that's how. So

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Speaker 1: much of a lot of this work around walking away

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Speaker 1: from front spaces that don't serve us is also about

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Speaker 1: walking away from shame. And we don't quote unquote do

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Speaker 1: the things that people expect us to do. Right. So

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Speaker 1: you have a moment where say you you you made

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Speaker 1: a decision, or say you do something that may not

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Speaker 1: have worked out the way you thought it was. The

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Speaker 1: way sisters internalize the shame of I should have known better,

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Speaker 1: Why did I do that? You know? The way that

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Speaker 1: we do all of that is so rooted, and if

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Speaker 1: I would have done it and been productive. Then people

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Speaker 1: would see me as worthy now because I didn't do it,

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Speaker 1: or because it didn't show up the way that I

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Speaker 1: thought it was. There's there's a certain level of worth

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Speaker 1: that's detached from me and I and we've seen it,

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Speaker 1: and I'm moms, we've seen it, you know. And our

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Speaker 1: grandmother's Like I had a conversation with my with my

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Speaker 1: grandmother where we were talking about, you know, the power

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Speaker 1: that sisters have now to walk away from relationships, not

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Speaker 1: because not because he's he is a bad guy, but

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Speaker 1: just because I'm not thriving in it anymore. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I'm deserted. It used to be well did it beat you? Right?

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Speaker 1: Like it's just like so it physical abuse is the

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Speaker 1: only thing that can get me to least, is it?

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Speaker 1: You know? And my grandma that is exactly what my

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Speaker 1: grandma said. She was like, y'all are saying like I'm

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00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: just not happy no more. I'm waking up and I'm

377
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: not happy. I'm not I don't want to be here.

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Speaker 1: And she said, when I was growing up, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: you left because he might have had an affair and

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Speaker 1: an outside child. You only could leave if you put

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Speaker 1: his hands scime because she was like, if you left

382
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: while he just because he cheated, that didn't mean he

383
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: wasn't a good provider. That didn't mean he couldn't be

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Speaker 1: a good dad to his kids in your house. And

385
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: so we were having this conversation about how excited at

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Speaker 1: eighty seven she is at the option that we like, No,

387
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: like he a good dude, He's just not good for me, right,

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00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: but he's not. He's not the great one for me.

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Speaker 1: And I think that we're also in a moment where

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Speaker 1: sisters are applying that to other areas of our lives, right,

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Speaker 1: Like we're looking at friendships differently, Like we're looking at

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Speaker 1: work differently, We're looking at other kinds of relationships, like

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Speaker 1: how how do I get to wake up every day,

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Speaker 1: show up as my full self, get to do the

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00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: work that allows me to be my full self and

396
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: to be in the spaces and relationships that allow me

397
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: to be my full self for no other reason than

398
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: because I deserve it. Like, I mean, my God, that

399
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: seems so simple and yet so damn revolutionary. I'm like, wait,

400
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 1: just just because just because I am listen, just because like,

401
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: like one of the things that my therapist and I

402
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: worked on last year is allowing myself to say I

403
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 1: deserve something and and and obtaining it, going and purchasing it,

404
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: going and getting it whatever. It was working towards the

405
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: goal and the justification being simply because I breathe, like

406
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: like just just sitting with that. And I remember the

407
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: first time she introduced that to me in our session,

408
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: and I was like, what you simply because I breathe?

409
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: Like I can't just do this because you know I

410
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: I'm not, I'm alive, Like I have to have a justification.

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00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: I have to have another reason, like how does this

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00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: make sense in my budget? How can I what else

413
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: kind of work can I do to make up for

414
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: the purchase? And she was like no, like simply because

415
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: you breathe, it can be yours like you walk in

416
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: this earth every day. And the wild part is that

417
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: when you look at white people and when you look

418
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: at black men, they move that way. It's there simply

419
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: because they exist, Like how dare you say they can't

420
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: have it? And we and as sisters, what does it

421
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: look like for us to continue to move into that space.

422
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 1: I see a lot of us doing it. I see younger.

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00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I tell but all the time, like when

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00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: we be said the children the future, like she went lying,

425
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: because these younger sisters and and they're teaching us, and

426
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: it's up to us to also continue to work to

427
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 1: create the space that gives them the room to be

428
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: able to fully lean into that and flourishing. Man, you know,

429
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: I mean, my god, they're so there's so much there.

430
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: Because I will tell you myself. You know, I've been,

431
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: like millions of Americans, working from home. Right, this is

432
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: this is not this is not the studio, this is

433
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: this is my house, and have been really grappling with

434
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: what it means to relax, have been really grappling um

435
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:54,479
Speaker 1: with rest. And last weekend I did absolutely nothing right, Like,

436
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: did absolutely nothing but Candice the guilt, the guilt that

437
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: I had to work through around that I should be reading,

438
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: I should be doing this, I should be taking notes.

439
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: I should be looking at X, Y and Z. The

440
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: guilt you know, speak speak to reconciling with the guilt

441
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: that black women have. Like you know, one of the

442
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,040
Speaker 1: one of the spaces that I follow on Instagram and

443
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: I have talked about on the show is the NAT Ministry. Right,

444
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,839
Speaker 1: I follow the nat Ministry and I am trying to

445
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: you know, take myself off of the hamster wheel, take myself,

446
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:36,279
Speaker 1: you know, out of this space of unworthiness because my worthiness,

447
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: to your point, being attached to my production level. Right,

448
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,280
Speaker 1: you are worthy, as your therapist said, because you breathe, right,

449
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 1: because you get up, because we are human. How do

450
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 1: you you know, how do you help black women understand

451
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: their guilt and how to even recognize that the emotion

452
00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: that they're feeling is in fact guilt, is in fact shame,

453
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 1: and how to maneuver through that. Yeah, part so much

454
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:13,799
Speaker 1: of it is is about getting them to to go

455
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: back to, especially in a faith time text, go back

456
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: to the truths they know about God, right that, like

457
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: that God is not this petty you know, um angry,

458
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: How could you do that? And look at you, you know,

459
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 1: with these like scornful like now you now, since you

460
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: did that, I'm going to to to put to let

461
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 1: ten people get in front of you in the blessing

462
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 1: line and withhold whatever thing you desire to want it

463
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: like that's not who God is, um and and getting

464
00:35:55,120 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 1: sisters to move from from from a space where they

465
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 1: associate God's disappointment or society's disappointment with God and getting

466
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: them to see it may not have been the best

467
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: decision that you should have made right, And at the

468
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 1: same time, you are not the only person in the

469
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: world who has ever made a bad decision or not

470
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: an optimal decision. And the grace for you is in

471
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: that right, and the grace for you is in exploring

472
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 1: the wisdom that came from making the decision that you

473
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: did right. What did you learn about yourself? What can

474
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 1: you apply as you move forward? How do you align?

475
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 1: How do you allow for what you learned about yourself

476
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,359
Speaker 1: who you've discovered yourself to be, to align with who

477
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: you want to be and who you desire to be,

478
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: and asking those questions and also reconciling with this is

479
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: actually the space in which God dwells and wants us

480
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: to dwell like that. How could you do it? Oh?

481
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 1: My god? How dare you like? That's where people are judgmental, shady,

482
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: petty people. Their life was on a summer jam screen.

483
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: They would be looking, they would be trying to find

484
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 1: the nearest exit. Right, let's be clear, right, But God

485
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: dwells in the Yeah, that wasn't the best move, right,

486
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,439
Speaker 1: But you live to see another day, and hopefully when

487
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 1: you get to make the next move you make it

488
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: with more wisdom, and you make it with more grace

489
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:04,640
Speaker 1: for yourself. Again, as you just said, that tends that

490
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: is so much easier to say, and it takes a

491
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 1: lot of unlearning, right that even I have to I

492
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: have to. I have black us all we are working

493
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: from home and I have these sticky notes on on

494
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:26,760
Speaker 1: my computer screen where I have to remember my mind

495
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 1: myself in those moments. Stay in your time zone, like

496
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 1: stay where you are, stay present in the moment, and

497
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: don't go back and think how could I have done this?

498
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: Or don't go too far ahead that you don't allow

499
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 1: yourself to stay where you are, get what you need

500
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: out of the moment, deal with whatever you gotta deal with,

501
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 1: and equip yourself to move forward in a much more

502
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 1: healthier whole way. I think, I think we my my hope.

503
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: And what what I wrote really theology for was to

504
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 1: help us as sisters take ourselves off the hook. Like, yes,

505
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: we can be entirely. We can be so hard on

506
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 1: ourselves that it doesn't matter if other people love us,

507
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter if other people see the best

508
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 1: of us. We can be so hard on ourselves that

509
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 1: if we don't see it if it doesn't matter right,

510
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 1: and like I want us to to get to a

511
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: point where we're like, wait a minute, like I am human.

512
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 1: I don't have to adopt the super the superhuman black woman,

513
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: you know, traits strong black woman traits that everybody says

514
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: that I have to. I don't have to go to

515
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:12,280
Speaker 1: church and lie and say I'm blessed, a highly favorite

516
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: when I literally want to cuss everybody out and I

517
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 1: don't feel blessed. I don't have to force myself to

518
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: praise my way through situations and circumstances when I am crying,

519
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:31,479
Speaker 1: when I am despondent, Like I get to say, God,

520
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: this is some bull Like I get to say that, Yeah,

521
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: I get to say I didn't expect to be here again,

522
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: like like I have to say that very clearly. I

523
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:49,879
Speaker 1: don't like it. I ain't expect to be here. You say,

524
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: you control all things. Why you ain't see this coming

525
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 1: and help me? I didn't want to be here again.

526
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 1: Like I was telling someone the other day because they

527
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 1: we were on a zoom and she was like, how

528
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: do you how do you pray? I said, just like

529
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 1: how I'm talking to you, Mike, exactly how I'm talking

530
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 1: to you because God created me to be me, like

531
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:22,720
Speaker 1: like in kind of relationship, you are supposed to bring

532
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 1: your authentic, honest, truthful self to a relationship, Like I

533
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: don't need to come to God poise, prettim our Father

534
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: making sure all of my words are over annanciated and

535
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: using all of the scriptures and all of these because

536
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 1: that's not how I talk and that's not me. Like

537
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,000
Speaker 1: when I'm grateful God you did that, and thank you,

538
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: like you made a way out of a way because

539
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 1: it was looking scary for your girl and you came through.

540
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 1: Thank you. And when I am broken and when I

541
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 1: am hurting, God, I didn't think I didn't see this coming,

542
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 1: help me because I didn't see it coming, right, Like

543
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 1: it matters for us to be human, and because that

544
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: is the only thing that we can be, is human,

545
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: because that is what we are. It's you know, Candice,

546
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 1: I have to say, I am so thankful. I have

547
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,400
Speaker 1: such gratitude for you coming on to woke a f

548
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 1: um because we have been you know, I've been trying

549
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: to have conversations at very I'm not a religious person.

550
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: I have always said that I am a spiritual person

551
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: and as a matter of fact has become more so

552
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: UM over the last couple of years, and I think

553
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: that that's just by virtue of having sense and dealing

554
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: with the times that we are in UM to find

555
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 1: find ways to ground UM. And I just I am

556
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: so thankful to you for writing this book, for sharing

557
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 1: this book and forming on the show. I hope that

558
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: I hope that you come back so we can have

559
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 1: more conversations about faith, about what it means to love

560
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: ourselves and to you know, love God, connect with the universe,

561
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, and uncouple ourselves from shame and guilt, because

562
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: I think that that is so incredibly important, particularly now, folks.

563
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:30,240
Speaker 1: The book is Red Lip Theology for church girls who've

564
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: considered tithing to the beauty supply store when Sunday morning

565
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: isn't enough. Candice Marie Benvo, thank you so much for

566
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: making the time for us. Thank you so much. Thank you.

567
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: That is it for me today. Friends on Woke a

568
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: FP as always, Power to the people and to all

569
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,399
Speaker 1: the people. Power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.