WEBVTT - Andrew Bird + Jimbo Mathus 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:24.916 Pushkin listening to Jimbo math this and Andrew Bird's new 0:00:24.916 --> 0:00:28.316 album These Thirteen. It's like taking a trip down South 0:00:28.716 --> 0:00:34.316 a century ago. Forgot to Get Oh, forgot to get Oh, 0:00:35.836 --> 0:00:40.476 got to get getting on Toome, forgot to get open Ontome, 0:00:40.796 --> 0:00:46.556 Forgot to Get. It's new territory. For Andrew Bird, it 0:00:46.716 --> 0:00:50.996 classically trained multi instrumentalists from the Chicago suburbs, who's been 0:00:51.036 --> 0:00:55.036 a successful indie folk singer songwriter and also recently acted 0:00:55.036 --> 0:00:58.116 on the fourth season A Farm Now. But for Jimbo, 0:00:58.516 --> 0:01:01.156 as a Mississippi resident, some of the music can hit 0:01:01.196 --> 0:01:04.676 too close down, surrounded by the ghosts in old battlefields 0:01:04.676 --> 0:01:08.516 of the Civil War. Some songs he finds almost two artists, 0:01:10.116 --> 0:01:12.796 Jimbo and Andrew first met musically playing for the sprol 0:01:12.876 --> 0:01:15.396 Nut Zippers in the mid nineties, a key part of 0:01:15.396 --> 0:01:19.116 the swing revival of the time. In twenty eighteen, Andrew 0:01:19.116 --> 0:01:22.316 and Jimbo got back together, exchanging voice memos and new 0:01:22.396 --> 0:01:25.796 song ideas. Over the course of two years, they recorded 0:01:25.836 --> 0:01:28.996 their new album The Old Fashioned Way, singing into a 0:01:29.076 --> 0:01:33.316 single microphone. In this episode, Bruce had them talks to 0:01:33.436 --> 0:01:36.236 Jimbo and Andrew about the varying ways they came to 0:01:36.316 --> 0:01:39.676 master their instruments, and now hanging out with Jimbo down 0:01:39.716 --> 0:01:44.036 South freed Andrew from the constraints this formal training. They 0:01:44.076 --> 0:01:46.276 also talk about how they managed to sneak a line 0:01:46.276 --> 0:01:49.316 about cell phones onto an album that pulls its inspiration 0:01:49.596 --> 0:01:56.316 from one hundred and fifty years ago. This is broken 0:01:56.356 --> 0:01:59.636 record liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmonds. 0:02:04.516 --> 0:02:07.676 Here's Bruce Head them with Andrew Bird and Jimbo matthis. 0:02:08.516 --> 0:02:12.556 You've got the terrific new album these thirteen. So let's 0:02:12.596 --> 0:02:15.756 just talk about how this album came about, what was 0:02:15.796 --> 0:02:18.996 the genesis of it. I've always wanted to make this 0:02:19.076 --> 0:02:23.716 record for the last twenty some years. You know, Jimbo 0:02:23.756 --> 0:02:26.396 and I worked a lot together in the late nineties, 0:02:26.916 --> 0:02:32.236 and I always just wanted to get him alone with 0:02:32.276 --> 0:02:38.276 me to do a stripped down duo record because he's 0:02:38.276 --> 0:02:41.676 he just has something in his playing and his singing, 0:02:41.676 --> 0:02:45.916 in his musicality that brings something out in me. For one, 0:02:46.036 --> 0:02:49.636 and it's also I just feel like people need to 0:02:49.636 --> 0:02:52.076 hear it. It's kind of a lost touch that he 0:02:52.156 --> 0:02:57.116 has with phrasing, and that's that's kind of been ironed 0:02:57.116 --> 0:03:01.636 out of music since the advent of radio in the 0:03:01.716 --> 0:03:05.156 music industry. But I just haven't really, you know, had 0:03:05.196 --> 0:03:07.236 the right moment to bring him out here and to 0:03:07.276 --> 0:03:10.196 do this this project. So it took me quite a 0:03:10.196 --> 0:03:12.756 while to get around to it. But once we did, 0:03:12.796 --> 0:03:17.156 we you know what surprised me is how much writing 0:03:17.156 --> 0:03:19.516 we did together, what a collaboration it was. I thought 0:03:19.516 --> 0:03:21.316 it was just going to be us doing a bunch 0:03:21.316 --> 0:03:25.036 of Mississippi Sheiks covers and Charlie Patton covers, and it 0:03:25.076 --> 0:03:28.236 turned into a big writing collaboration, which is kind of 0:03:28.276 --> 0:03:32.436 a revelation. Yeah, I mean, bird Bird he kind of 0:03:32.436 --> 0:03:34.836 sketched out the idea to me, but he was like, 0:03:34.876 --> 0:03:36.676 you know, do you have a couple of songs maybe 0:03:36.676 --> 0:03:39.116 you could send me. So, I mean I ended up 0:03:39.156 --> 0:03:42.956 sending them probably twenty songs or something, I mean, just 0:03:42.996 --> 0:03:46.036 because I like to just throw ideas out, you know, 0:03:46.676 --> 0:03:49.836 And so it kind of started taking more shape that way, 0:03:49.916 --> 0:03:53.436 like like he described, and became a much more a 0:03:53.476 --> 0:03:58.316 personal and original record. I think that neither one of 0:03:58.436 --> 0:04:02.076 us envisioned at the time how much we enjoyed it 0:04:02.116 --> 0:04:05.476 and how easily we were able to cobble these songs 0:04:05.516 --> 0:04:07.876 together and of course, I knew playing would be no 0:04:07.956 --> 0:04:12.356 problem and record and we've always had that. Now, when 0:04:12.356 --> 0:04:16.236 you guys were playing in the nineties, you were doing swing, Andrew, 0:04:16.236 --> 0:04:19.036 how did you know this was something you wanted to 0:04:19.076 --> 0:04:21.356 do with Jimbo? Were you backstage one night and he 0:04:21.396 --> 0:04:23.596 started playing a song and you thought, that's the sound 0:04:23.676 --> 0:04:26.956 I want. Yeah, when we met, you know, I met 0:04:26.996 --> 0:04:31.036 I was aware of the school the Zippers in their 0:04:31.036 --> 0:04:34.756 first record, and I met him in North Carolina when 0:04:34.796 --> 0:04:37.156 I was at a festival there. We were both into 0:04:37.196 --> 0:04:42.876 this early twentieth century American music, and for the Zippers 0:04:42.956 --> 0:04:48.156 there was just this convergence of a strange national trend 0:04:49.076 --> 0:04:52.476 popular trend with that that they were on the same 0:04:52.516 --> 0:04:55.236 path of. But there was way more going on there 0:04:55.236 --> 0:04:58.276 than just pop culture thing, because I really think of 0:04:58.356 --> 0:05:00.996 the Zippers is not so much a swing band as 0:05:01.036 --> 0:05:05.556 like one of the many eccentric Southern bands like say 0:05:05.596 --> 0:05:07.796 the B fifty twos or you know. I think of 0:05:07.836 --> 0:05:10.556 him more and like a broader than just that era 0:05:11.836 --> 0:05:15.236 of swing dance lessons and Martiniz and whatever. I mean. 0:05:15.316 --> 0:05:17.916 Jimbo would invite me down down to North Carolina and 0:05:17.916 --> 0:05:20.876 down to New Orleans and was introducing me to all 0:05:20.876 --> 0:05:24.756 these eccentric folks and playing music all the time and 0:05:25.116 --> 0:05:30.156 kind of hard living and wild life. But when when 0:05:30.156 --> 0:05:32.716 he brought me down to New Orleans to do songs 0:05:32.716 --> 0:05:36.916 for Rosetta, which is his tribute record to Charlie Patton 0:05:36.956 --> 0:05:41.036 and to his daughter Rosetta, then that's that's when I 0:05:41.156 --> 0:05:44.516 got really turned down to Charlie Patton, which is Jimbo's 0:05:44.516 --> 0:05:48.876 sort of personal touchdowne I guess creatively, and it was 0:05:49.076 --> 0:05:51.276 it was less of a swing thing and more of 0:05:51.276 --> 0:05:56.236 this sort of strange, exotic Southern music from the early 0:05:56.236 --> 0:05:59.436 twentieth century. And that's where really the idea for this 0:05:59.476 --> 0:06:02.476 record started, was that I just wanted to sort of 0:06:02.476 --> 0:06:06.556 showcase show people what Jimbo was doing that maybe in 0:06:06.716 --> 0:06:10.236 other projects of his. You don't quite here is clearly 0:06:11.036 --> 0:06:15.116 like Andrew said, um, I came from a real rural 0:06:15.156 --> 0:06:18.636 area with a lot of family music, so the whole 0:06:18.676 --> 0:06:21.876 folk music thing. It's just odd that we met over 0:06:22.796 --> 0:06:25.956 the era when he was both interested in the early jazz, 0:06:26.036 --> 0:06:31.396 vaudeville cabaret and so was I. Incredibly, we haven't neither 0:06:31.436 --> 0:06:35.676 one of us has done that particular style since then, 0:06:36.436 --> 0:06:41.276 but in our meetings and our hangouts back in the 0:06:41.396 --> 0:06:44.196 nineties when he would come to North Carolina. You know, 0:06:44.276 --> 0:06:46.916 we would do like I did growing up, which was 0:06:47.116 --> 0:06:50.596 set out under the tree and just share songs, you know, 0:06:50.876 --> 0:06:55.676 from the folk cannon and Jimbo. You're your parents started 0:06:55.676 --> 0:06:59.316 you out on mandolin, is that right? I started out 0:06:59.316 --> 0:07:03.316 on mandolin, you know when. And the way I grew 0:07:03.396 --> 0:07:08.156 up with music is very untrained. I played by ear 0:07:08.276 --> 0:07:11.356 like Andrew, but coming from a different site. It was 0:07:11.436 --> 0:07:16.116 just social music. There was no microphones or stages or 0:07:16.156 --> 0:07:18.476 anything or audience. It would just be the family and 0:07:18.516 --> 0:07:20.876 the friends, you know. That's the way I grew up, 0:07:20.916 --> 0:07:25.236 so it'd be a lot of drinking, you know, not 0:07:25.356 --> 0:07:28.676 me when I was six, but one of my uncles 0:07:28.716 --> 0:07:32.116 got a little kneebred and left his mandolin over at 0:07:32.156 --> 0:07:34.876 the house, you know, and I guess maybe for a 0:07:34.916 --> 0:07:38.076 few months he forgot where he had left, and by 0:07:38.116 --> 0:07:40.276 the time he came back to pick it up, I 0:07:40.316 --> 0:07:44.476 had learned the rudiments and was figuring out I wanted 0:07:44.516 --> 0:07:48.116 to play with the with the older guys and gals, 0:07:48.596 --> 0:07:50.996 and so at that point they had to buy me 0:07:50.996 --> 0:07:54.836 and mandolin. But your parents weren't musicians, right, it was 0:07:54.876 --> 0:07:59.076 just a tradition in your family. Yeah. They weren't professional musicians, no, 0:07:59.276 --> 0:08:02.436 not at all, but they were quite good and really 0:08:02.476 --> 0:08:08.636 just the social reality of music and just doing it 0:08:08.636 --> 0:08:12.756 for your own entertainment, your own enjoyment. It's like a 0:08:12.796 --> 0:08:18.956 pre TV lifestyle, something to pass the time. Of course, 0:08:18.956 --> 0:08:24.796 you do play funerals and family reunions, important milestones, you know, 0:08:25.116 --> 0:08:28.076 we would that's where we would perform, and that's where 0:08:28.076 --> 0:08:31.076 we would set up camp, and hours and hours and 0:08:31.116 --> 0:08:34.436 hours of music would pass, and sometimes days, you know, 0:08:34.796 --> 0:08:40.276 of just playing music, singing music, socializing and learning these 0:08:40.276 --> 0:08:43.796 songs and sharing the cannon. So I probably knew a 0:08:43.796 --> 0:08:45.996 couple of hundred songs by the time I was twelve 0:08:46.076 --> 0:08:50.556 years old, you know, just the roots. Now, Andrew, you 0:08:51.156 --> 0:08:53.636 come at this music from a completely different direction. You 0:08:53.676 --> 0:08:57.436 were classically trained. I think it went to the conservatory 0:08:57.476 --> 0:09:00.516 at Northwestern. Yeah, I mean I grew up on the 0:09:00.556 --> 0:09:04.396 north shore of Chicago and did the suzuki thing from 0:09:04.636 --> 0:09:08.356 early early age, which is sort of a prefab oral 0:09:08.396 --> 0:09:13.076 tradition if you think about it. It's it's a method, 0:09:13.396 --> 0:09:18.836 you know, by this Japanese doctor to teach children at 0:09:18.876 --> 0:09:21.596 a young age to learn music the way they learned 0:09:21.676 --> 0:09:24.436 as their learning language. So you're learning you know, Mozart 0:09:24.436 --> 0:09:27.796 Buck but also go Talent Roady and you know folk songs. 0:09:28.316 --> 0:09:31.956 And so I didn't learn to read music until high 0:09:31.996 --> 0:09:34.956 school and it was a bit trial by fire. And 0:09:34.996 --> 0:09:36.796 by that time my ear was so big I could 0:09:36.956 --> 0:09:41.316 learn faster by ear, And yeah, I was. I went 0:09:41.316 --> 0:09:44.276 through conservatory. That was, you know, I was always kind 0:09:44.276 --> 0:09:50.556 of bucking against the tradition and it was it was social. 0:09:50.716 --> 0:09:54.116 But it wasn't until I started going to like Irish 0:09:54.196 --> 0:09:57.636 music sessions on Sundays when I was in college and 0:09:58.076 --> 0:10:02.796 drinking a Guinness and everyone's sharing tunes where you know, 0:10:02.836 --> 0:10:04.676 if someone would start a tune and by the time 0:10:05.796 --> 0:10:07.876 then a third or fourth time it goes around, you've 0:10:08.716 --> 0:10:12.676 tried figure out the nooks and crannies of that melody. 0:10:13.316 --> 0:10:18.116 So that was, you know, remarkable, very much more of 0:10:18.196 --> 0:10:23.676 a relaxed social type of context like Jumbo's talking about, 0:10:23.716 --> 0:10:27.236 compared to like during the weeks being in an orchestra. 0:10:28.076 --> 0:10:31.756 You know what interested me listening though, is your tone 0:10:31.796 --> 0:10:35.196 on the violin. Because it's one thing to learn the notes, 0:10:35.236 --> 0:10:38.196 but you have a you have a very different tone 0:10:38.316 --> 0:10:40.676 playing this kind of music than you often do in 0:10:40.676 --> 0:10:44.556 your own music. It has a more country kind of flavor. 0:10:45.036 --> 0:10:47.916 I you know, remember when I was a kid seeing 0:10:48.036 --> 0:10:51.676 you know, your hoodie Manuin and eat Zoc Peerlman trying 0:10:51.716 --> 0:10:55.516 to do jazz. It wasn't all that successful. No offense 0:10:55.556 --> 0:10:57.316 to you, hoodie menu and he really didn't have the 0:10:57.396 --> 0:11:01.116 gypsy soul. No. No, what's it like to have the 0:11:01.196 --> 0:11:03.436 kind of classical chops you do and then say, Okay, 0:11:03.436 --> 0:11:05.116 now I got to play this other kind of music 0:11:05.156 --> 0:11:07.716 and maybe some of the things you relied on in 0:11:07.836 --> 0:11:12.436 classical music don't necessarily translate. Yeah. I mean from an 0:11:12.516 --> 0:11:14.716 early age, I would like listen to something on the 0:11:14.836 --> 0:11:18.476 radio and I would try to play it because that 0:11:18.556 --> 0:11:21.276 was how the Suzuki thing worked, you know. It was 0:11:21.316 --> 0:11:24.476 like a one room schoolhouse, you know, just learn the 0:11:24.556 --> 0:11:29.836 repertoire by year. But that age of like from eighteen 0:11:29.996 --> 0:11:34.756 to twenty two, I was just ravenous for new kinds 0:11:34.796 --> 0:11:37.436 of music to learn, and it did. I did have to. 0:11:38.396 --> 0:11:40.556 Playing with drummers did help me kind of break up 0:11:40.596 --> 0:11:43.916 the phrase and be my own drummer and playing the 0:11:43.956 --> 0:11:46.156 Irish music. You have to play your own backbeat with 0:11:46.236 --> 0:11:48.836 the way you're boeing, and it's a feel thing. It's 0:11:48.876 --> 0:11:52.676 not like Uhoti Minumen trying to play jazz. That's like 0:11:53.276 --> 0:11:57.636 a transcription of maybe a Grappelli solo or something that 0:11:57.996 --> 0:12:00.236 he might be playing, and it's just you know, you tried. 0:12:00.316 --> 0:12:02.236 I tried to do that first. I got a book 0:12:02.276 --> 0:12:05.916 of like transcriptions of Stephen Grappelli solos, and I was 0:12:05.956 --> 0:12:09.076 trying to read it, and of course doesn't make any 0:12:09.516 --> 0:12:13.316 sense musically, and it can't be really taught that way. 0:12:13.316 --> 0:12:15.876 It's just an intuitive feel thing. And it took a 0:12:15.916 --> 0:12:18.716 couple of years to kind of unlearn some things or 0:12:18.756 --> 0:12:22.316 break down the way I bode, mostly because it's mostly 0:12:22.316 --> 0:12:24.796 in the right hand. Now, I think I played more 0:12:24.876 --> 0:12:28.796 like a tenor saxophone player than a violinist. You know, 0:12:28.876 --> 0:12:32.116 there's a lot less articulation. I think where a lot 0:12:32.156 --> 0:12:37.396 of classical players revealed their stripes is in articulate. They're 0:12:37.476 --> 0:12:41.796 over articulating everything, and it's just painful to listen to. Sometimes. 0:12:42.396 --> 0:12:44.276 We'll be right back with more from Andrew Bird and 0:12:44.356 --> 0:12:51.676 Jimbo Matthis after a quick break. We're back with more 0:12:51.756 --> 0:12:55.116 from Andrew Bird and Jimbo Matthis. When I was listening 0:12:55.116 --> 0:12:58.076 through the album this week, I was trying to imagine 0:12:58.556 --> 0:13:00.796 if I were to say to people, you love this album, 0:13:00.836 --> 0:13:03.716 if you liked and I think in the first few 0:13:03.756 --> 0:13:05.756 minutes it was like, if you like the Stanley Brothers 0:13:05.876 --> 0:13:08.276 or Willie Nelson or Steph Smith, their son House or 0:13:08.356 --> 0:13:12.276 Johnny Cash or Ricky Skeggs or Django Reinhardt or Clarence 0:13:12.316 --> 0:13:14.876 Ashley the band. And it just went on and on 0:13:14.916 --> 0:13:17.596 and on from there. So it's not I don't want 0:13:17.596 --> 0:13:20.516 to give people the idea that this is some antique style. 0:13:21.196 --> 0:13:24.356 It's basically kind of American music in a very broad sense. 0:13:24.796 --> 0:13:27.836 But did you have particular people in mind when you 0:13:27.876 --> 0:13:30.876 were doing this, or did you have a particular sound 0:13:30.916 --> 0:13:34.036 in mind when you were recording this. There's definitely no 0:13:34.516 --> 0:13:38.356 conscious template that we've set out to achieve, you know, 0:13:38.516 --> 0:13:42.396 or some recreation of anyone else. And my influences are 0:13:42.436 --> 0:13:45.796 so myriad. A lot of the people you just mentioned, 0:13:45.836 --> 0:13:48.716 of course play into that. But you know, the way 0:13:48.756 --> 0:13:52.356 I think about it's like the old Harry Smith, you 0:13:52.436 --> 0:13:56.396 know the Smithsonian collection. You know of folk music, how 0:13:56.436 --> 0:14:00.796 it goes from everything from Cajun to African American music 0:14:00.876 --> 0:14:04.596 to songs that are practical to like build a railroad 0:14:04.676 --> 0:14:08.916 to or you know, those are more than the bed 0:14:09.196 --> 0:14:13.836 rock templates that I use. Um not necessarily copying an artists, 0:14:13.996 --> 0:14:19.156 no never, but in the tradition, in the vein of 0:14:20.036 --> 0:14:24.036 a style of music, a region of music, it's not 0:14:24.116 --> 0:14:28.476 a reading of any antique forms or that's just who 0:14:28.516 --> 0:14:31.156 we are as people, and that that's true when you 0:14:31.156 --> 0:14:32.836 you listen to the Even when we were working in 0:14:32.876 --> 0:14:37.436 the early jazz vein, it was still original songs and 0:14:38.036 --> 0:14:43.076 original ideas, and some of which wouldn't have made sense 0:14:43.116 --> 0:14:45.876 in that era. We weren't like, you know, we weren't 0:14:45.876 --> 0:14:49.636 going around wearing vintage clothes thinking, God, I wish it 0:14:49.716 --> 0:14:53.836 was nineteen thirty two. You know. But uh, what surprised 0:14:53.836 --> 0:14:56.316 me when with the writing of this record is like, 0:14:57.316 --> 0:15:00.436 because we both usually work alone on our songs, and 0:15:01.516 --> 0:15:03.556 we kind of tapped into a little bit of what 0:15:04.396 --> 0:15:08.756 clarity and efficiency of like songwriting teams. You know, where 0:15:09.596 --> 0:15:13.596 Jimbo would throw out something like dig up the hatchet, 0:15:13.996 --> 0:15:17.836 you know where he's talking taking some like somewhat familiar expression. 0:15:18.876 --> 0:15:21.956 You know, he was we have the expression bury the hatchet, 0:15:21.956 --> 0:15:24.676 and he's like, let's dig it up, like, let's have 0:15:24.716 --> 0:15:28.036 a real knockdown, drag out fight, just because it maybe 0:15:28.276 --> 0:15:30.636 is an aphrodisiac or whatever. I don't know what he's thinking, 0:15:31.116 --> 0:15:34.276 but I take the I take that idea in and 0:15:34.356 --> 0:15:36.836 kind of run with it. And because I see exactly 0:15:36.836 --> 0:15:39.036 what he's doing. If it was in my one of 0:15:39.036 --> 0:15:45.276 my own songs, I would be have this obtuse internal conversation. 0:15:45.516 --> 0:15:50.516 But when it's two people immediately externalizing their ideas and 0:15:50.596 --> 0:15:54.596 there's a kind of a nice, clear, bouncy conversation going 0:15:54.636 --> 0:15:57.756 on with the lyrics, and that's it came together so 0:15:59.116 --> 0:16:04.396 quickly and gratifyingly compared to the internal torture that we 0:16:04.436 --> 0:16:06.356 go through to write our own song. Sometimes. You know, 0:16:07.196 --> 0:16:09.596 you know, that might be my favorite song the album. 0:16:09.676 --> 0:16:12.756 I think it's my favorite lyrics on the album. I 0:16:12.876 --> 0:16:15.436 was going to ask you, did you get that from anywhere? 0:16:15.516 --> 0:16:17.956 Dig up the hatchet, because now that I look at it, 0:16:17.956 --> 0:16:21.596 it's one of those that seems so obvious. I write 0:16:21.636 --> 0:16:25.556 from titles. You know, I get the title first, and 0:16:25.596 --> 0:16:27.556 so if I have a good title that I think 0:16:27.676 --> 0:16:32.076 is somehow intriguing, it almost spells out what the song 0:16:32.116 --> 0:16:33.916 can be about. So I don't have to sit around 0:16:33.916 --> 0:16:38.716 and dig up some idea or emotion or something to 0:16:38.716 --> 0:16:41.956 create a song. Because I start from the title. My 0:16:41.996 --> 0:16:44.916 mind kind of likes to flip things over like that, 0:16:44.996 --> 0:16:49.916 and especially colloquialism's regional dialect, things people say but don't 0:16:49.956 --> 0:16:52.596 think about it, you know. So it's like, yeah, why 0:16:52.596 --> 0:16:55.356 didn't somebody think of that? Well, I mean, that's could 0:16:55.356 --> 0:16:59.276 be true of any great song, you know, but that 0:16:59.316 --> 0:17:03.476 one is particularly cool in the language that it flips 0:17:03.516 --> 0:17:06.396 on its ear. But I had the title dig Up 0:17:06.436 --> 0:17:09.476 the Hatchet laying around in the notebook for probably I 0:17:09.476 --> 0:17:13.716 don't know, maybe fifteen years really, But I have to 0:17:13.756 --> 0:17:16.716 ask you, do you remember thinking of the phrase? Yeah, 0:17:16.756 --> 0:17:18.996 of course I do. Do you remember where you were? 0:17:20.076 --> 0:17:24.716 I was in Clarksdale, Mississippi, and my grandmother's driveway, you know, 0:17:25.596 --> 0:17:27.596 you know, it made me chuckle, So I knew, I 0:17:27.676 --> 0:17:30.156 knew there was something there. I just and so. As 0:17:30.196 --> 0:17:33.516 Andrew and I progressed in our writing, I realized, well, shit, 0:17:33.596 --> 0:17:35.756 I can just go back and just dig up some 0:17:35.796 --> 0:17:39.796 old song titles and I might have a scrap of 0:17:39.836 --> 0:17:42.436 a napkin or something that had I think that was 0:17:42.516 --> 0:17:46.236 the fewest lines of anything I seen him, but he 0:17:46.516 --> 0:17:49.436 you know, I had two or three lines. You did 0:17:49.476 --> 0:17:52.356 have that that bit of the bridge where it's the 0:17:52.396 --> 0:17:56.396 cell phone thing mentioned in pictures you uh, you found 0:17:56.436 --> 0:17:58.716 on my phone, which I raised an eyebrow at at 0:17:58.756 --> 0:18:02.716 first because I thought that that seems that seems almost 0:18:02.716 --> 0:18:07.316 too current. But I like it now. I think it's 0:18:07.756 --> 0:18:09.996 we needed some of that. The other line I wanted 0:18:10.036 --> 0:18:13.796 to ask you about because you know, with songs, even 0:18:13.796 --> 0:18:18.116 with modern songs, people you know, people like older technology. 0:18:18.196 --> 0:18:22.436 People want to write about trains and cadillacts. I think 0:18:22.436 --> 0:18:25.156 actually Rick Rubin had this conversation with Jack White on 0:18:25.196 --> 0:18:28.196 our podcast because Jack White was trying to figure out 0:18:28.236 --> 0:18:30.756 how to put tesla in a song, and he's like, 0:18:30.956 --> 0:18:34.116 it just doesn't work. But somehow in that song, the 0:18:34.756 --> 0:18:37.556 it's the line about those photos you found on my phone, 0:18:37.916 --> 0:18:40.836 it works. It maybe the first example of like new 0:18:40.876 --> 0:18:43.596 technology and an old song. I thought it was so great. 0:18:44.716 --> 0:18:46.596 You know, It's just I was just thinking, well, what 0:18:46.716 --> 0:18:49.796 are the things that cost the most conflict? Cell Phones 0:18:49.876 --> 0:18:52.716 causing more problems with people. You know, it's like the 0:18:52.756 --> 0:18:56.476 biggest contributor to you know, arguing and things like that. 0:18:56.556 --> 0:18:59.356 And yeah, so it seems like the most obvious thing 0:18:59.396 --> 0:19:02.076 that somebody would would bring up when you're digging out 0:19:02.076 --> 0:19:04.876 the hatchet, you know, And I thought Bird might just 0:19:04.996 --> 0:19:06.836 take the line out. But I mean I didn't have 0:19:06.956 --> 0:19:09.756 but a couple of lines. I thought about for a minute. 0:19:10.716 --> 0:19:13.676 I don't know that kind of stuff. Like, you know, 0:19:13.796 --> 0:19:20.356 before you had the Lone Gun songwriter singer songwriter, the Dylan's, 0:19:20.436 --> 0:19:24.556 the Joni Mitchell's, there were songwriting teams, and there's a 0:19:24.596 --> 0:19:29.076 certain division of labor and the sort of conversation that 0:19:29.276 --> 0:19:32.116 is kind of appealing. Yeah, you can make a simpler 0:19:32.396 --> 0:19:35.276 song that way. Actually, you can boil it down to 0:19:35.396 --> 0:19:39.316 the to the to the bone because you're not stepping 0:19:39.356 --> 0:19:42.276 on each other's toes. You know, it's a clean line. 0:19:42.916 --> 0:19:46.236 You cover a lot of you know, psychological territory. The 0:19:46.316 --> 0:19:49.156 lyrics start in LA, which is that where you did 0:19:49.156 --> 0:19:51.876 the writing. That's where I was located, and Jimbo was 0:19:51.916 --> 0:19:55.476 in North Mississippi, but he he started writing that song 0:19:55.596 --> 0:20:00.596 in LA based on his observations as someone not from there, 0:20:00.796 --> 0:20:05.196 seeing just how shocking the homelessness was in such a 0:20:05.236 --> 0:20:11.076 prosperous tourist destination spot as such as downtown Hollywood and 0:20:11.116 --> 0:20:15.236 then I he pretty much had that song fully written 0:20:15.796 --> 0:20:19.236 and recorded before, but I heard that line look down 0:20:19.236 --> 0:20:21.156 and see the stars, look up and see the gold, 0:20:21.156 --> 0:20:25.996 and I thought, that is, like, that's that line as gold. 0:20:26.076 --> 0:20:29.676 It's that's like your John Prine, like it contains multitudes 0:20:30.036 --> 0:20:34.516 in a few words. So I grabbed onto that and 0:20:34.596 --> 0:20:37.516 that was Yeah, that kind of sets the stage for 0:20:37.556 --> 0:20:40.356 the whole record in the sense that here's Jimbo, you know, 0:20:41.396 --> 0:20:46.516 coming from his environment as a songwriter and observer, and 0:20:47.516 --> 0:20:50.156 this is what he sees. And then I wrote a 0:20:50.236 --> 0:20:52.996 verse that says what I see, which is as someone 0:20:52.996 --> 0:20:56.596 who lives in basically in this neighborhood and drives my 0:20:56.676 --> 0:20:59.836 kid to school through it, you know every day, the 0:20:59.836 --> 0:21:02.116 people that live there that are are seeing it and 0:21:02.236 --> 0:21:05.396 trying to keep their humanity and when they see such 0:21:06.316 --> 0:21:09.036 in humanity, you know, and not be numb to it. 0:21:09.316 --> 0:21:12.516 And so that was the flip side that I was 0:21:12.596 --> 0:21:15.756 trying to offer to the song. It was a great 0:21:15.756 --> 0:21:18.116 flip side, you know, just don't you know, if you 0:21:18.196 --> 0:21:21.516 look away and you close the blinds, then even though 0:21:21.516 --> 0:21:24.556 you can't maybe change what's you see, but if you 0:21:24.556 --> 0:21:28.116 look away and ignore it, then you are doing a 0:21:28.196 --> 0:21:32.196 disservice to your fellow man, you know, and then if 0:21:32.236 --> 0:21:35.476 you look away, you won't see an avenue of help. 0:21:36.156 --> 0:21:38.876 You know, you won't see an avenue too when it 0:21:38.916 --> 0:21:41.236 opens up to you or it appears to you to 0:21:41.356 --> 0:21:45.436 actually make a difference. So it was a beautiful verse 0:21:45.476 --> 0:21:48.116 there that he wrote. We'll be back with more from 0:21:48.156 --> 0:21:56.476 Jimbo Mathis and Andrew Bird. After a quick break, We're 0:21:56.516 --> 0:22:00.116 back with Andrew Bird and Jimbo Mathis. A lot of 0:22:00.116 --> 0:22:04.916 the lyrics I found very direct, very vulnerable, certainly, Andrew 0:22:05.476 --> 0:22:08.076 maybe more direct and vulnerable than you're used to writing. 0:22:08.596 --> 0:22:12.276 Was that all a product of working with someone else? Yeah, 0:22:12.316 --> 0:22:15.756 I think, like I was saying, like in my own 0:22:16.116 --> 0:22:20.076 internal conversations that become my songs cannot often be a 0:22:20.116 --> 0:22:22.596 long drawn out process. The ones I write fastest are 0:22:22.596 --> 0:22:24.836 the most direct, but the ones that take years to 0:22:24.876 --> 0:22:30.596 write are very layered and psychologically complex, and working with 0:22:30.716 --> 0:22:34.716 Jimbo was kept things more closer to the surface. I 0:22:34.716 --> 0:22:36.796 guess you could say, I want to ask you a 0:22:36.836 --> 0:22:39.676 little bit about a couple of the songs Sweet Oblivion. 0:22:39.756 --> 0:22:42.156 How did that come about? There's a couple of songs 0:22:42.156 --> 0:22:45.756 that were all all Jimbo or all me and like 0:22:46.156 --> 0:22:49.236 beat Still my Heart was all Jimbo and Sweet Oblivion 0:22:49.316 --> 0:22:51.356 was something I had already written before that I just 0:22:51.396 --> 0:22:53.876 thought made sense for the two of us to play. 0:22:53.956 --> 0:22:56.636 I tried to make it for my finest work yet, 0:22:56.676 --> 0:22:59.196 and it didn't come out quite right. I think. The 0:22:59.196 --> 0:23:01.396 thing the good thing about that when was I was 0:23:01.436 --> 0:23:07.876 able to put that North Mississippi Hill Country guitar in there. 0:23:07.916 --> 0:23:10.996 I mean, that was a real, you know, something that 0:23:11.156 --> 0:23:14.396 really worked with that. Yeah, Jimbo's touched on the guitar. 0:23:14.516 --> 0:23:19.436 Is allows very simple things to be remarkable as opposed 0:23:19.476 --> 0:23:22.356 to just kind of simple or boring. You know. Can 0:23:22.396 --> 0:23:23.996 you tell me a bit what you meant by that 0:23:24.236 --> 0:23:27.996 by that guitar style. Uh, It's just one great thing 0:23:28.036 --> 0:23:32.156 about the Deep South still to this today, there's regions 0:23:32.236 --> 0:23:35.676 of styles of music that have been haven't been a 0:23:35.836 --> 0:23:39.716 race or or ironed out, as Andrew said earlier. So 0:23:39.796 --> 0:23:43.396 there's a little pocket of African American blues music on 0:23:43.476 --> 0:23:46.636 that's bass in North mississ Northeast Mississippi, in the hill 0:23:46.716 --> 0:23:50.236 country up there, they call it, and it's it's usually 0:23:50.316 --> 0:23:52.916 would be they didn't have a lot of instruments, so 0:23:52.956 --> 0:23:56.876 it would be a solo guitar piece, but it's very 0:23:56.956 --> 0:23:59.836 rhythmic and it's mostly on the bass notes. There's not 0:23:59.876 --> 0:24:02.436 a lot of treble and really in any of my 0:24:02.476 --> 0:24:06.916 guitar playing, but it's a rhythmic drive of a way 0:24:06.916 --> 0:24:09.676 to approach a guitar, and it comes from the like 0:24:09.716 --> 0:24:13.876 the old fife and drum tradition before they even had guitars. 0:24:13.916 --> 0:24:15.916 I mean, we didn't have guitars down here till after 0:24:15.996 --> 0:24:20.236 the Spanish American War, you know, when the veterans brought 0:24:20.276 --> 0:24:25.156 them back as souvenirs, you know, the Black soldiers. And 0:24:25.196 --> 0:24:28.236 that's a style they developed up here, as they call it, 0:24:28.276 --> 0:24:33.676 the Hill Country style, just like kind of drone droning, groovy, interlocking, 0:24:34.316 --> 0:24:36.676