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Speaker 1: Pushkin listening to Jimbo math this and Andrew Bird's new

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Speaker 1: album These Thirteen. It's like taking a trip down South

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Speaker 1: a century ago. Forgot to Get Oh, forgot to get Oh,

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Speaker 1: got to get getting on Toome, forgot to get open Ontome,

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Speaker 1: Forgot to Get. It's new territory. For Andrew Bird, it

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Speaker 1: classically trained multi instrumentalists from the Chicago suburbs, who's been

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Speaker 1: a successful indie folk singer songwriter and also recently acted

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Speaker 1: on the fourth season A Farm Now. But for Jimbo,

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Speaker 1: as a Mississippi resident, some of the music can hit

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Speaker 1: too close down, surrounded by the ghosts in old battlefields

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Speaker 1: of the Civil War. Some songs he finds almost two artists,

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Speaker 1: Jimbo and Andrew first met musically playing for the sprol

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Speaker 1: Nut Zippers in the mid nineties, a key part of

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Speaker 1: the swing revival of the time. In twenty eighteen, Andrew

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Speaker 1: and Jimbo got back together, exchanging voice memos and new

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Speaker 1: song ideas. Over the course of two years, they recorded

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Speaker 1: their new album The Old Fashioned Way, singing into a

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Speaker 1: single microphone. In this episode, Bruce had them talks to

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Speaker 1: Jimbo and Andrew about the varying ways they came to

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Speaker 1: master their instruments, and now hanging out with Jimbo down

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Speaker 1: South freed Andrew from the constraints this formal training. They

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Speaker 1: also talk about how they managed to sneak a line

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Speaker 1: about cell phones onto an album that pulls its inspiration

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Speaker 1: from one hundred and fifty years ago. This is broken

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Speaker 1: record liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmonds.

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Speaker 1: Here's Bruce Head them with Andrew Bird and Jimbo matthis.

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Speaker 1: You've got the terrific new album these thirteen. So let's

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Speaker 1: just talk about how this album came about, what was

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Speaker 1: the genesis of it. I've always wanted to make this

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Speaker 1: record for the last twenty some years. You know, Jimbo

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Speaker 1: and I worked a lot together in the late nineties,

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Speaker 1: and I always just wanted to get him alone with

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Speaker 1: me to do a stripped down duo record because he's

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Speaker 1: he just has something in his playing and his singing,

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Speaker 1: in his musicality that brings something out in me. For one,

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Speaker 1: and it's also I just feel like people need to

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Speaker 1: hear it. It's kind of a lost touch that he

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Speaker 1: has with phrasing, and that's that's kind of been ironed

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Speaker 1: out of music since the advent of radio in the

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Speaker 1: music industry. But I just haven't really, you know, had

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Speaker 1: the right moment to bring him out here and to

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Speaker 1: do this this project. So it took me quite a

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Speaker 1: while to get around to it. But once we did,

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Speaker 1: we you know what surprised me is how much writing

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Speaker 1: we did together, what a collaboration it was. I thought

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Speaker 1: it was just going to be us doing a bunch

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Speaker 1: of Mississippi Sheiks covers and Charlie Patton covers, and it

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Speaker 1: turned into a big writing collaboration, which is kind of

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Speaker 1: a revelation. Yeah, I mean, bird Bird he kind of

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Speaker 1: sketched out the idea to me, but he was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, do you have a couple of songs maybe

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Speaker 1: you could send me. So, I mean I ended up

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Speaker 1: sending them probably twenty songs or something, I mean, just

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Speaker 1: because I like to just throw ideas out, you know,

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Speaker 1: And so it kind of started taking more shape that way,

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Speaker 1: like like he described, and became a much more a

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Speaker 1: personal and original record. I think that neither one of

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Speaker 1: us envisioned at the time how much we enjoyed it

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Speaker 1: and how easily we were able to cobble these songs

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Speaker 1: together and of course, I knew playing would be no

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Speaker 1: problem and record and we've always had that. Now, when

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Speaker 1: you guys were playing in the nineties, you were doing swing, Andrew,

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Speaker 1: how did you know this was something you wanted to

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Speaker 1: do with Jimbo? Were you backstage one night and he

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Speaker 1: started playing a song and you thought, that's the sound

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Speaker 1: I want. Yeah, when we met, you know, I met

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Speaker 1: I was aware of the school the Zippers in their

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Speaker 1: first record, and I met him in North Carolina when

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Speaker 1: I was at a festival there. We were both into

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Speaker 1: this early twentieth century American music, and for the Zippers

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Speaker 1: there was just this convergence of a strange national trend

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Speaker 1: popular trend with that that they were on the same

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Speaker 1: path of. But there was way more going on there

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Speaker 1: than just pop culture thing, because I really think of

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Speaker 1: the Zippers is not so much a swing band as

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Speaker 1: like one of the many eccentric Southern bands like say

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Speaker 1: the B fifty twos or you know. I think of

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Speaker 1: him more and like a broader than just that era

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Speaker 1: of swing dance lessons and Martiniz and whatever. I mean.

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Speaker 1: Jimbo would invite me down down to North Carolina and

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Speaker 1: down to New Orleans and was introducing me to all

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Speaker 1: these eccentric folks and playing music all the time and

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Speaker 1: kind of hard living and wild life. But when when

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Speaker 1: he brought me down to New Orleans to do songs

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Speaker 1: for Rosetta, which is his tribute record to Charlie Patton

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Speaker 1: and to his daughter Rosetta, then that's that's when I

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Speaker 1: got really turned down to Charlie Patton, which is Jimbo's

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Speaker 1: sort of personal touchdowne I guess creatively, and it was

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Speaker 1: it was less of a swing thing and more of

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Speaker 1: this sort of strange, exotic Southern music from the early

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Speaker 1: twentieth century. And that's where really the idea for this

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Speaker 1: record started, was that I just wanted to sort of

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Speaker 1: showcase show people what Jimbo was doing that maybe in

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Speaker 1: other projects of his. You don't quite here is clearly

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Speaker 1: like Andrew said, um, I came from a real rural

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Speaker 1: area with a lot of family music, so the whole

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Speaker 1: folk music thing. It's just odd that we met over

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Speaker 1: the era when he was both interested in the early jazz,

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Speaker 1: vaudeville cabaret and so was I. Incredibly, we haven't neither

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Speaker 1: one of us has done that particular style since then,

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Speaker 1: but in our meetings and our hangouts back in the

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Speaker 1: nineties when he would come to North Carolina. You know,

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Speaker 1: we would do like I did growing up, which was

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Speaker 1: set out under the tree and just share songs, you know,

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Speaker 1: from the folk cannon and Jimbo. You're your parents started

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Speaker 1: you out on mandolin, is that right? I started out

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Speaker 1: on mandolin, you know when. And the way I grew

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Speaker 1: up with music is very untrained. I played by ear

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Speaker 1: like Andrew, but coming from a different site. It was

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Speaker 1: just social music. There was no microphones or stages or

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Speaker 1: anything or audience. It would just be the family and

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Speaker 1: the friends, you know. That's the way I grew up,

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Speaker 1: so it'd be a lot of drinking, you know, not

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Speaker 1: me when I was six, but one of my uncles

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Speaker 1: got a little kneebred and left his mandolin over at

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Speaker 1: the house, you know, and I guess maybe for a

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Speaker 1: few months he forgot where he had left, and by

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Speaker 1: the time he came back to pick it up, I

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Speaker 1: had learned the rudiments and was figuring out I wanted

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Speaker 1: to play with the with the older guys and gals,

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Speaker 1: and so at that point they had to buy me

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Speaker 1: and mandolin. But your parents weren't musicians, right, it was

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Speaker 1: just a tradition in your family. Yeah. They weren't professional musicians, no,

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Speaker 1: not at all, but they were quite good and really

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Speaker 1: just the social reality of music and just doing it

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Speaker 1: for your own entertainment, your own enjoyment. It's like a

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Speaker 1: pre TV lifestyle, something to pass the time. Of course,

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Speaker 1: you do play funerals and family reunions, important milestones, you know,

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Speaker 1: we would that's where we would perform, and that's where

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Speaker 1: we would set up camp, and hours and hours and

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Speaker 1: hours of music would pass, and sometimes days, you know,

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Speaker 1: of just playing music, singing music, socializing and learning these

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Speaker 1: songs and sharing the cannon. So I probably knew a

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Speaker 1: couple of hundred songs by the time I was twelve

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Speaker 1: years old, you know, just the roots. Now, Andrew, you

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Speaker 1: come at this music from a completely different direction. You

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Speaker 1: were classically trained. I think it went to the conservatory

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Speaker 1: at Northwestern. Yeah, I mean I grew up on the

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Speaker 1: north shore of Chicago and did the suzuki thing from

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Speaker 1: early early age, which is sort of a prefab oral

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Speaker 1: tradition if you think about it. It's it's a method,

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Speaker 1: you know, by this Japanese doctor to teach children at

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Speaker 1: a young age to learn music the way they learned

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Speaker 1: as their learning language. So you're learning you know, Mozart

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Speaker 1: Buck but also go Talent Roady and you know folk songs.

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Speaker 1: And so I didn't learn to read music until high

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Speaker 1: school and it was a bit trial by fire. And

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Speaker 1: by that time my ear was so big I could

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Speaker 1: learn faster by ear, And yeah, I was. I went

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Speaker 1: through conservatory. That was, you know, I was always kind

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Speaker 1: of bucking against the tradition and it was it was social.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't until I started going to like Irish

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Speaker 1: music sessions on Sundays when I was in college and

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Speaker 1: drinking a Guinness and everyone's sharing tunes where you know,

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Speaker 1: if someone would start a tune and by the time

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Speaker 1: then a third or fourth time it goes around, you've

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Speaker 1: tried figure out the nooks and crannies of that melody.

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Speaker 1: So that was, you know, remarkable, very much more of

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Speaker 1: a relaxed social type of context like Jumbo's talking about,

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Speaker 1: compared to like during the weeks being in an orchestra.

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Speaker 1: You know what interested me listening though, is your tone

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Speaker 1: on the violin. Because it's one thing to learn the notes,

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Speaker 1: but you have a you have a very different tone

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Speaker 1: playing this kind of music than you often do in

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Speaker 1: your own music. It has a more country kind of flavor.

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Speaker 1: I you know, remember when I was a kid seeing

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Speaker 1: you know, your hoodie Manuin and eat Zoc Peerlman trying

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Speaker 1: to do jazz. It wasn't all that successful. No offense

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Speaker 1: to you, hoodie menu and he really didn't have the

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Speaker 1: gypsy soul. No. No, what's it like to have the

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Speaker 1: kind of classical chops you do and then say, Okay,

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Speaker 1: now I got to play this other kind of music

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Speaker 1: and maybe some of the things you relied on in

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Speaker 1: classical music don't necessarily translate. Yeah. I mean from an

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Speaker 1: early age, I would like listen to something on the

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Speaker 1: radio and I would try to play it because that

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Speaker 1: was how the Suzuki thing worked, you know. It was

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Speaker 1: like a one room schoolhouse, you know, just learn the

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Speaker 1: repertoire by year. But that age of like from eighteen

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Speaker 1: to twenty two, I was just ravenous for new kinds

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Speaker 1: of music to learn, and it did. I did have to.

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Speaker 1: Playing with drummers did help me kind of break up

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Speaker 1: the phrase and be my own drummer and playing the

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Speaker 1: Irish music. You have to play your own backbeat with

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Speaker 1: the way you're boeing, and it's a feel thing. It's

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Speaker 1: not like Uhoti Minumen trying to play jazz. That's like

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Speaker 1: a transcription of maybe a Grappelli solo or something that

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Speaker 1: he might be playing, and it's just you know, you tried.

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Speaker 1: I tried to do that first. I got a book

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Speaker 1: of like transcriptions of Stephen Grappelli solos, and I was

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Speaker 1: trying to read it, and of course doesn't make any

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Speaker 1: sense musically, and it can't be really taught that way.

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Speaker 1: It's just an intuitive feel thing. And it took a

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Speaker 1: couple of years to kind of unlearn some things or

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Speaker 1: break down the way I bode, mostly because it's mostly

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Speaker 1: in the right hand. Now, I think I played more

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Speaker 1: like a tenor saxophone player than a violinist. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot less articulation. I think where a lot

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Speaker 1: of classical players revealed their stripes is in articulate. They're

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Speaker 1: over articulating everything, and it's just painful to listen to. Sometimes.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more from Andrew Bird and

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Speaker 1: Jimbo Matthis after a quick break. We're back with more

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Speaker 1: from Andrew Bird and Jimbo Matthis. When I was listening

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Speaker 1: through the album this week, I was trying to imagine

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Speaker 1: if I were to say to people, you love this album,

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Speaker 1: if you liked and I think in the first few

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Speaker 1: minutes it was like, if you like the Stanley Brothers

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Speaker 1: or Willie Nelson or Steph Smith, their son House or

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Speaker 1: Johnny Cash or Ricky Skeggs or Django Reinhardt or Clarence

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Speaker 1: Ashley the band. And it just went on and on

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Speaker 1: and on from there. So it's not I don't want

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Speaker 1: to give people the idea that this is some antique style.

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Speaker 1: It's basically kind of American music in a very broad sense.

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Speaker 1: But did you have particular people in mind when you

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Speaker 1: were doing this, or did you have a particular sound

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Speaker 1: in mind when you were recording this. There's definitely no

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Speaker 1: conscious template that we've set out to achieve, you know,

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Speaker 1: or some recreation of anyone else. And my influences are

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Speaker 1: so myriad. A lot of the people you just mentioned,

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Speaker 1: of course play into that. But you know, the way

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Speaker 1: I think about it's like the old Harry Smith, you

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Speaker 1: know the Smithsonian collection. You know of folk music, how

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Speaker 1: it goes from everything from Cajun to African American music

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Speaker 1: to songs that are practical to like build a railroad

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Speaker 1: to or you know, those are more than the bed

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Speaker 1: rock templates that I use. Um not necessarily copying an artists,

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Speaker 1: no never, but in the tradition, in the vein of

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Speaker 1: a style of music, a region of music, it's not

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Speaker 1: a reading of any antique forms or that's just who

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Speaker 1: we are as people, and that that's true when you

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Speaker 1: you listen to the Even when we were working in

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Speaker 1: the early jazz vein, it was still original songs and

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Speaker 1: original ideas, and some of which wouldn't have made sense

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Speaker 1: in that era. We weren't like, you know, we weren't

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Speaker 1: going around wearing vintage clothes thinking, God, I wish it

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Speaker 1: was nineteen thirty two. You know. But uh, what surprised

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Speaker 1: me when with the writing of this record is like,

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Speaker 1: because we both usually work alone on our songs, and

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Speaker 1: we kind of tapped into a little bit of what

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Speaker 1: clarity and efficiency of like songwriting teams. You know, where

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Speaker 1: Jimbo would throw out something like dig up the hatchet,

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Speaker 1: you know where he's talking taking some like somewhat familiar expression.

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Speaker 1: You know, he was we have the expression bury the hatchet,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, let's dig it up, like, let's have

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Speaker 1: a real knockdown, drag out fight, just because it maybe

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Speaker 1: is an aphrodisiac or whatever. I don't know what he's thinking,

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Speaker 1: but I take the I take that idea in and

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Speaker 1: kind of run with it. And because I see exactly

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Speaker 1: what he's doing. If it was in my one of

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Speaker 1: my own songs, I would be have this obtuse internal conversation.

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Speaker 1: But when it's two people immediately externalizing their ideas and

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Speaker 1: there's a kind of a nice, clear, bouncy conversation going

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Speaker 1: on with the lyrics, and that's it came together so

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Speaker 1: quickly and gratifyingly compared to the internal torture that we

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Speaker 1: go through to write our own song. Sometimes. You know,

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Speaker 1: you know, that might be my favorite song the album.

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Speaker 1: I think it's my favorite lyrics on the album. I

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Speaker 1: was going to ask you, did you get that from anywhere?

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Speaker 1: Dig up the hatchet, because now that I look at it,

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Speaker 1: it's one of those that seems so obvious. I write

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Speaker 1: from titles. You know, I get the title first, and

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Speaker 1: so if I have a good title that I think

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Speaker 1: is somehow intriguing, it almost spells out what the song

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Speaker 1: can be about. So I don't have to sit around

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Speaker 1: and dig up some idea or emotion or something to

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Speaker 1: create a song. Because I start from the title. My

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Speaker 1: mind kind of likes to flip things over like that,

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Speaker 1: and especially colloquialism's regional dialect, things people say but don't

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Speaker 1: think about it, you know. So it's like, yeah, why

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Speaker 1: didn't somebody think of that? Well, I mean, that's could

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Speaker 1: be true of any great song, you know, but that

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Speaker 1: one is particularly cool in the language that it flips

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Speaker 1: on its ear. But I had the title dig Up

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Speaker 1: the Hatchet laying around in the notebook for probably I

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Speaker 1: don't know, maybe fifteen years really, But I have to

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Speaker 1: ask you, do you remember thinking of the phrase? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: of course I do. Do you remember where you were?

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Speaker 1: I was in Clarksdale, Mississippi, and my grandmother's driveway, you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, it made me chuckle, So I knew, I

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Speaker 1: knew there was something there. I just and so. As

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Speaker 1: Andrew and I progressed in our writing, I realized, well, shit,

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Speaker 1: I can just go back and just dig up some

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Speaker 1: old song titles and I might have a scrap of

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Speaker 1: a napkin or something that had I think that was

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Speaker 1: the fewest lines of anything I seen him, but he

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Speaker 1: you know, I had two or three lines. You did

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Speaker 1: have that that bit of the bridge where it's the

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Speaker 1: cell phone thing mentioned in pictures you uh, you found

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Speaker 1: on my phone, which I raised an eyebrow at at

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Speaker 1: first because I thought that that seems that seems almost

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Speaker 1: too current. But I like it now. I think it's

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Speaker 1: we needed some of that. The other line I wanted

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Speaker 1: to ask you about because you know, with songs, even

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Speaker 1: with modern songs, people you know, people like older technology.

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Speaker 1: People want to write about trains and cadillacts. I think

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Speaker 1: actually Rick Rubin had this conversation with Jack White on

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Speaker 1: our podcast because Jack White was trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: how to put tesla in a song, and he's like,

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Speaker 1: it just doesn't work. But somehow in that song, the

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Speaker 1: it's the line about those photos you found on my phone,

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Speaker 1: it works. It maybe the first example of like new

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Speaker 1: technology and an old song. I thought it was so great.

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Speaker 1: You know, It's just I was just thinking, well, what

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Speaker 1: are the things that cost the most conflict? Cell Phones

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Speaker 1: causing more problems with people. You know, it's like the

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Speaker 1: biggest contributor to you know, arguing and things like that.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, so it seems like the most obvious thing

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Speaker 1: that somebody would would bring up when you're digging out

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Speaker 1: the hatchet, you know, And I thought Bird might just

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Speaker 1: take the line out. But I mean I didn't have

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Speaker 1: but a couple of lines. I thought about for a minute.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that kind of stuff. Like, you know,

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Speaker 1: before you had the Lone Gun songwriter singer songwriter, the Dylan's,

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Speaker 1: the Joni Mitchell's, there were songwriting teams, and there's a

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Speaker 1: certain division of labor and the sort of conversation that

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Speaker 1: is kind of appealing. Yeah, you can make a simpler

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Speaker 1: song that way. Actually, you can boil it down to

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Speaker 1: the to the to the bone because you're not stepping

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Speaker 1: on each other's toes. You know, it's a clean line.

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Speaker 1: You cover a lot of you know, psychological territory. The

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Speaker 1: lyrics start in LA, which is that where you did

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Speaker 1: the writing. That's where I was located, and Jimbo was

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Speaker 1: in North Mississippi, but he he started writing that song

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Speaker 1: in LA based on his observations as someone not from there,

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Speaker 1: seeing just how shocking the homelessness was in such a

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Speaker 1: prosperous tourist destination spot as such as downtown Hollywood and

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Speaker 1: then I he pretty much had that song fully written

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Speaker 1: and recorded before, but I heard that line look down

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Speaker 1: and see the stars, look up and see the gold,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, that is, like, that's that line as gold.

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Speaker 1: It's that's like your John Prine, like it contains multitudes

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Speaker 1: in a few words. So I grabbed onto that and

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Speaker 1: that was Yeah, that kind of sets the stage for

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Speaker 1: the whole record in the sense that here's Jimbo, you know,

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Speaker 1: coming from his environment as a songwriter and observer, and

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Speaker 1: this is what he sees. And then I wrote a

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Speaker 1: verse that says what I see, which is as someone

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Speaker 1: who lives in basically in this neighborhood and drives my

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Speaker 1: kid to school through it, you know every day, the

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Speaker 1: people that live there that are are seeing it and

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Speaker 1: trying to keep their humanity and when they see such

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Speaker 1: in humanity, you know, and not be numb to it.

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Speaker 1: And so that was the flip side that I was

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Speaker 1: trying to offer to the song. It was a great

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Speaker 1: flip side, you know, just don't you know, if you

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Speaker 1: look away and you close the blinds, then even though

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Speaker 1: you can't maybe change what's you see, but if you

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Speaker 1: look away and ignore it, then you are doing a

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Speaker 1: disservice to your fellow man, you know, and then if

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Speaker 1: you look away, you won't see an avenue of help.

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Speaker 1: You know, you won't see an avenue too when it

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Speaker 1: opens up to you or it appears to you to

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Speaker 1: actually make a difference. So it was a beautiful verse

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Speaker 1: there that he wrote. We'll be back with more from

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Speaker 1: Jimbo Mathis and Andrew Bird. After a quick break, We're

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Speaker 1: back with Andrew Bird and Jimbo Mathis. A lot of

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Speaker 1: the lyrics I found very direct, very vulnerable, certainly, Andrew

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Speaker 1: maybe more direct and vulnerable than you're used to writing.

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Speaker 1: Was that all a product of working with someone else? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think, like I was saying, like in my own

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Speaker 1: internal conversations that become my songs cannot often be a

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Speaker 1: long drawn out process. The ones I write fastest are

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Speaker 1: the most direct, but the ones that take years to

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Speaker 1: write are very layered and psychologically complex, and working with

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Speaker 1: Jimbo was kept things more closer to the surface. I

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Speaker 1: guess you could say, I want to ask you a

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Speaker 1: little bit about a couple of the songs Sweet Oblivion.

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Speaker 1: How did that come about? There's a couple of songs

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Speaker 1: that were all all Jimbo or all me and like

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Speaker 1: beat Still my Heart was all Jimbo and Sweet Oblivion

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Speaker 1: was something I had already written before that I just

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Speaker 1: thought made sense for the two of us to play.

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Speaker 1: I tried to make it for my finest work yet,

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Speaker 1: and it didn't come out quite right. I think. The

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Speaker 1: thing the good thing about that when was I was

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Speaker 1: able to put that North Mississippi Hill Country guitar in there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that was a real, you know, something that

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Speaker 1: really worked with that. Yeah, Jimbo's touched on the guitar.

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Speaker 1: Is allows very simple things to be remarkable as opposed

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Speaker 1: to just kind of simple or boring. You know. Can

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Speaker 1: you tell me a bit what you meant by that

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Speaker 1: by that guitar style. Uh, It's just one great thing

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Speaker 1: about the Deep South still to this today, there's regions

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Speaker 1: of styles of music that have been haven't been a

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Speaker 1: race or or ironed out, as Andrew said earlier. So

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Speaker 1: there's a little pocket of African American blues music on

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Speaker 1: that's bass in North mississ Northeast Mississippi, in the hill

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Speaker 1: country up there, they call it, and it's it's usually

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Speaker 1: would be they didn't have a lot of instruments, so

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Speaker 1: it would be a solo guitar piece, but it's very

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Speaker 1: rhythmic and it's mostly on the bass notes. There's not

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Speaker 1: a lot of treble and really in any of my

393
00:24:02,476 --> 00:24:06,916
Speaker 1: guitar playing, but it's a rhythmic drive of a way

394
00:24:06,916 --> 00:24:09,676
Speaker 1: to approach a guitar, and it comes from the like

395
00:24:09,716 --> 00:24:13,876
Speaker 1: the old fife and drum tradition before they even had guitars.

396
00:24:13,916 --> 00:24:15,916
Speaker 1: I mean, we didn't have guitars down here till after

397
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Speaker 1: the Spanish American War, you know, when the veterans brought

398
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Speaker 1: them back as souvenirs, you know, the Black soldiers. And

399
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Speaker 1: that's a style they developed up here, as they call it,

400
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Speaker 1: the Hill Country style, just like kind of drone droning, groovy, interlocking,

401
00:24:34,316 --> 00:24:36,676
Speaker 1: not not so much soloistic and just just kind of

402
00:24:36,916 --> 00:24:40,836
Speaker 1: interlocking patterns and grooves a little bit like North African

403
00:24:41,836 --> 00:24:45,476
Speaker 1: very much. So it's very much from the like west

404
00:24:45,516 --> 00:24:52,196
Speaker 1: coast of Africa. So we're talking Molly Synegal, you know,

405
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Speaker 1: but that's the African Americans that were settled here as slaves.

406
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Speaker 1: That's where they were from them by and large, and

407
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Speaker 1: so they translated the memories that they had and then

408
00:25:04,236 --> 00:25:09,956
Speaker 1: the banjo playing, which was before the guitar. They translated

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00:25:09,996 --> 00:25:14,156
Speaker 1: that into a dance social music, but it fit perfectly

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Speaker 1: with Sweet Oblivion the style. So I'm basically just doing

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Speaker 1: like what some gentlemen up here would have done, like

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Speaker 1: Junior Kimbro or R. L. Burnside or Mississippi Fred McDowell

413
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Speaker 1: or somebody. I'm accompanying him in that style. It worked

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Speaker 1: really good. It started with a loop I made on

415
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Speaker 1: the violin, like Pitscotta loop a couple of years ago.

416
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Speaker 1: That was just kind of odd and odd phreeze, and

417
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Speaker 1: I tried to make it work with the band and

418
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Speaker 1: it just didn't. One of those things that didn't didn't click.

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Speaker 1: It got too normalized every time I tried to bring

420
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Speaker 1: other people into it, until I brought it to you.

421
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Speaker 1: Of course, no chance of it getting normalized with you.

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Speaker 1: So how did you record this album? Did you record

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Speaker 1: it in a special way because you wanted so much

424
00:26:06,556 --> 00:26:10,316
Speaker 1: space around the instruments and around the voices. We had two,

425
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Speaker 1: you know, our SA ribbon microphones, the forty four. We've

426
00:26:14,476 --> 00:26:18,156
Speaker 1: always used those. And also because the violin is can

427
00:26:18,196 --> 00:26:20,916
Speaker 1: be a bit stride, and you know, see the ribbon

428
00:26:21,036 --> 00:26:22,796
Speaker 1: old ribbon mics kind of take the edge off a

429
00:26:22,796 --> 00:26:25,836
Speaker 1: little bit, and the tape is pretty key that we're

430
00:26:25,876 --> 00:26:29,756
Speaker 1: no strangers to doing things that way. We didn't really

431
00:26:29,756 --> 00:26:33,196
Speaker 1: have time for overdubs or to overcomplicate things. I'm a

432
00:26:33,196 --> 00:26:36,716
Speaker 1: fan of realism in recording, you know. I don't. I

433
00:26:37,076 --> 00:26:41,356
Speaker 1: can see right through productions, you know, the conceit of

434
00:26:41,556 --> 00:26:44,996
Speaker 1: certain choices being made and producing a record. The biggest

435
00:26:45,076 --> 00:26:47,796
Speaker 1: choices you make are like what instrument is within arm's

436
00:26:47,836 --> 00:26:52,236
Speaker 1: reach and you know that there's that initial choice, but

437
00:26:52,356 --> 00:26:54,916
Speaker 1: not I don't like the post production choices. I can

438
00:26:54,996 --> 00:26:58,596
Speaker 1: hear them. They're so transparent, you know. And to keep

439
00:26:58,636 --> 00:27:01,596
Speaker 1: things in the realm of performance, you know, is important.

440
00:27:02,796 --> 00:27:05,636
Speaker 1: Can you talk a bit about Stonewall eighteen sixty three?

441
00:27:06,076 --> 00:27:09,116
Speaker 1: You mentioned performance, It's a very different kind of performance

442
00:27:09,196 --> 00:27:13,236
Speaker 1: on this album. Yeah. I was watching the Ken Burns

443
00:27:14,116 --> 00:27:18,276
Speaker 1: documentary on the Civil War. That's something I'm sort of

444
00:27:18,756 --> 00:27:22,796
Speaker 1: haunted by and return to all the time, just because

445
00:27:22,836 --> 00:27:25,796
Speaker 1: of where I live and the battle fields and the

446
00:27:25,956 --> 00:27:28,436
Speaker 1: history that's here. It was just a line that was

447
00:27:28,916 --> 00:27:32,756
Speaker 1: Stonewall Jackson, the general. It was just dying words, let

448
00:27:32,796 --> 00:27:35,036
Speaker 1: us now cross over the river and rest needs the

449
00:27:35,036 --> 00:27:37,716
Speaker 1: shade of the trees, you know. And I heard the

450
00:27:37,876 --> 00:27:41,876
Speaker 1: narrator say that on the documentary, So what is such

451
00:27:41,916 --> 00:27:44,796
Speaker 1: a beautiful way to go? No matter? You know, And

452
00:27:44,956 --> 00:27:47,436
Speaker 1: he's shot and shattered and his body's tattered and torn.

453
00:27:47,476 --> 00:27:50,876
Speaker 1: They're all blown apart. That one just really when I've

454
00:27:50,916 --> 00:27:54,516
Speaker 1: really never sung that song before. It was just one

455
00:27:54,556 --> 00:27:56,436
Speaker 1: of those moments I don't really want to sing that

456
00:27:56,476 --> 00:28:00,156
Speaker 1: song too much, you know, it's like it's almost too

457
00:28:00,236 --> 00:28:06,076
Speaker 1: painful for me, just back in my chromosomes somehow. Well,

458
00:28:06,516 --> 00:28:10,276
Speaker 1: I'm also basing it on, like they call it in church,

459
00:28:10,396 --> 00:28:12,996
Speaker 1: the primitive churches, when you're lining the songs out, so

460
00:28:13,116 --> 00:28:17,196
Speaker 1: the preacher will say the word, the phrase it's about

461
00:28:17,196 --> 00:28:20,716
Speaker 1: to be sung by the congregation. He says the next

462
00:28:20,756 --> 00:28:22,716
Speaker 1: line that he wants them to sing in real time.

463
00:28:23,436 --> 00:28:27,156
Speaker 1: And so I incorporated some of that old hymnal shape

464
00:28:27,196 --> 00:28:32,276
Speaker 1: note singing in there, where I say the line and

465
00:28:32,316 --> 00:28:35,356
Speaker 1: then you sing the line. And Viola had the idea

466
00:28:35,396 --> 00:28:37,436
Speaker 1: to just take all the music away and just home,

467
00:28:38,276 --> 00:28:41,116
Speaker 1: you know, And in a way, that's one of the

468
00:28:41,116 --> 00:28:44,076
Speaker 1: most important parts of the album, just our two voices,

469
00:28:44,156 --> 00:28:48,156
Speaker 1: just not even saying words, just syllables or just a

470
00:28:48,196 --> 00:28:53,396
Speaker 1: home under your voice. Yeah, I mean, I was It's

471
00:28:53,436 --> 00:28:56,196
Speaker 1: funny you mentioned the ken Burns thing, because he wouldn't.

472
00:28:56,316 --> 00:29:00,556
Speaker 1: You'd think your inspiration is coming from you know, the

473
00:29:00,636 --> 00:29:05,636
Speaker 1: soil down there, but not a PBS documentary. But nonetheless

474
00:29:05,716 --> 00:29:08,236
Speaker 1: it's like an incredible document that film. And it was

475
00:29:09,436 --> 00:29:13,516
Speaker 1: huge for me too because I I learned that there

476
00:29:13,556 --> 00:29:15,436
Speaker 1: was like a kind of like a hit folk song

477
00:29:15,556 --> 00:29:19,676
Speaker 1: that came out of that documentary, Yeah, which was written

478
00:29:19,676 --> 00:29:22,236
Speaker 1: by Jay Unger, like a guy in upstate New York,

479
00:29:23,716 --> 00:29:27,996
Speaker 1: and I became obsessed with it's player right, Yeah, he's

480
00:29:27,996 --> 00:29:30,556
Speaker 1: a fiddle player. He and his wife Molly Mason, and

481
00:29:30,596 --> 00:29:33,916
Speaker 1: they were on Prairie Home Companions a lot in the

482
00:29:34,356 --> 00:29:38,116
Speaker 1: when was that nineties, which I listened to religiously at

483
00:29:38,116 --> 00:29:43,796
Speaker 1: the time, and that song paid you know, I owe

484
00:29:43,796 --> 00:29:48,516
Speaker 1: them royalties because I played that for every wedding, every funeral, everywhere,

485
00:29:48,516 --> 00:29:52,156
Speaker 1: and people just I always felt something when I played it.

486
00:29:52,156 --> 00:29:55,396
Speaker 1: It was just strange. This modern folk tune was so

487
00:29:55,636 --> 00:30:00,316
Speaker 1: impactful and also paid my rent for the first you know,

488
00:30:00,356 --> 00:30:04,596
Speaker 1: when I was in college. You know that in the

489
00:30:04,796 --> 00:30:08,676
Speaker 1: Pocabell's cannon pretty much kept you in soup that went

490
00:30:08,716 --> 00:30:11,636
Speaker 1: when some one would come to talk to me about

491
00:30:11,676 --> 00:30:14,276
Speaker 1: doing their wedding, they'd ask for Taco Bell Cannon, and

492
00:30:14,356 --> 00:30:18,116
Speaker 1: I would say, how about how about not Taco Bill Cannon,

493
00:30:18,156 --> 00:30:21,156
Speaker 1: Let's do a choking farewell instead. You love it. I

494
00:30:21,196 --> 00:30:23,156
Speaker 1: do want to ask you about in an album that

495
00:30:23,156 --> 00:30:27,116
Speaker 1: has many songs about people on the other side, meaning death,

496
00:30:27,196 --> 00:30:28,756
Speaker 1: suddenly you're just on the other side of a red,

497
00:30:28,876 --> 00:30:32,076
Speaker 1: red velvet rope. But it seemed it seemed as impenetrable somehow.

498
00:30:32,436 --> 00:30:34,396
Speaker 1: But Beat Still my Heart, which I just thought was

499
00:30:34,636 --> 00:30:37,436
Speaker 1: just a lovely song, it had a very different sound

500
00:30:37,516 --> 00:30:42,116
Speaker 1: to me. I'm not sure what style of song that

501
00:30:42,356 --> 00:30:46,756
Speaker 1: is exactly. I was watching a friend of mine who's

502
00:30:46,756 --> 00:30:49,516
Speaker 1: about my age. I'm fifty three. I think we're about

503
00:30:49,556 --> 00:30:53,956
Speaker 1: the same age. And he's a great musician and he

504
00:30:54,076 --> 00:30:56,596
Speaker 1: has been his entire life. He's very well known. I

505
00:30:56,636 --> 00:31:01,596
Speaker 1: won't say his name, but he has pretty severe mental

506
00:31:01,636 --> 00:31:05,556
Speaker 1: illness and its psychosis. And I was watching him. I

507
00:31:05,556 --> 00:31:07,436
Speaker 1: hadn't seen him perform in a long time, and he

508
00:31:07,476 --> 00:31:11,916
Speaker 1: was on stage It'll Bar Down in the Delta, and

509
00:31:11,956 --> 00:31:14,596
Speaker 1: he was actually just really having a really hard time

510
00:31:14,676 --> 00:31:19,316
Speaker 1: on stage. He almost didn't know where he was and

511
00:31:19,356 --> 00:31:21,396
Speaker 1: he didn't know what he was supposed to be doing.

512
00:31:22,076 --> 00:31:27,676
Speaker 1: Type of moment in front of people, and that's what

513
00:31:27,796 --> 00:31:31,076
Speaker 1: I wrote for him. Yeah, but that that theme of

514
00:31:31,436 --> 00:31:34,036
Speaker 1: the other side you brought up something I didn't even

515
00:31:34,116 --> 00:31:37,916
Speaker 1: think about. That it's not just someone being on the

516
00:31:37,916 --> 00:31:40,956
Speaker 1: other side of the velvet rope, but in Three White Horses,

517
00:31:40,956 --> 00:31:44,236
Speaker 1: we're talking about the other side. Or I've been obsessed

518
00:31:44,276 --> 00:31:47,676
Speaker 1: with the line over the years and pops up on

519
00:31:47,716 --> 00:31:50,436
Speaker 1: almost every record of the Fatal Shore and the crossing

520
00:31:50,436 --> 00:31:54,876
Speaker 1: the river to between, like the threshold between life and

521
00:31:54,956 --> 00:31:58,316
Speaker 1: death or any kind of threshold has been always like

522
00:31:58,356 --> 00:32:02,796
Speaker 1: a constant undercurrent in my writing. And you only think

523
00:32:02,836 --> 00:32:04,996
Speaker 1: about these things in retrospect when you have to talk

524
00:32:05,036 --> 00:32:08,276
Speaker 1: about them when the record comes out. But yeah, it's

525
00:32:08,316 --> 00:32:11,916
Speaker 1: interesting how much that comes up. Can you tell me, Jimbo,

526
00:32:12,156 --> 00:32:14,636
Speaker 1: you had trouble with that song before? What was it

527
00:32:14,676 --> 00:32:17,116
Speaker 1: about this collaboration that made it possible for you to

528
00:32:17,156 --> 00:32:20,436
Speaker 1: do that song. I think just Andrew's voice, you know,

529
00:32:20,596 --> 00:32:24,076
Speaker 1: just he's got a such a We have such different voices,

530
00:32:24,196 --> 00:32:27,236
Speaker 1: you know, they blend together very well when we're singing harmonies.

531
00:32:27,676 --> 00:32:31,676
Speaker 1: Just the tone of his voice versus mind. Maybe he

532
00:32:31,756 --> 00:32:34,636
Speaker 1: just had a fresh approach to it. I mean, did

533
00:32:34,836 --> 00:32:39,156
Speaker 1: singing Jimbo's songs like Burn the honky Tonk in particular,

534
00:32:39,436 --> 00:32:41,796
Speaker 1: it's one of my favorites to hear on the album

535
00:32:41,916 --> 00:32:44,516
Speaker 1: because it brings something out in my voice that I

536
00:32:44,556 --> 00:32:49,716
Speaker 1: don't often write songs myself to tap that tone in

537
00:32:49,796 --> 00:32:53,156
Speaker 1: my voice and that that sort of Marty Robbins big

538
00:32:53,356 --> 00:32:55,956
Speaker 1: crooner thing, and I guess Pete still has that too,

539
00:32:56,116 --> 00:33:00,396
Speaker 1: just kind of like a big romantic approach. Most of

540
00:33:00,396 --> 00:33:02,516
Speaker 1: my songs are like every syllable is accounted for and

541
00:33:02,556 --> 00:33:04,676
Speaker 1: the melody has already worked out, So I'm just kind of,

542
00:33:05,756 --> 00:33:08,876
Speaker 1: you know, it's a different process and kind of the

543
00:33:08,876 --> 00:33:11,236
Speaker 1: same feeling you get when you do a cover of

544
00:33:11,276 --> 00:33:13,156
Speaker 1: a song you like, you know, you find you can

545
00:33:13,316 --> 00:33:16,516
Speaker 1: sing a different way, you know, But I didn't. I

546
00:33:16,516 --> 00:33:18,716
Speaker 1: didn't quite know I had that in me. Is that

547
00:33:19,076 --> 00:33:22,396
Speaker 1: what came out on or in the Honckey Talk? But

548
00:33:22,436 --> 00:33:25,996
Speaker 1: it's such a so satisfying every time I do that song,

549
00:33:26,076 --> 00:33:29,156
Speaker 1: I just like feel the resonance in my chest and

550
00:33:29,796 --> 00:33:32,316
Speaker 1: in a way that doesn't happen on my own songs. Well,

551
00:33:32,356 --> 00:33:35,476
Speaker 1: I guess that's what a great collaboration is supposed to do.

552
00:33:35,756 --> 00:33:37,516
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for talking about this. I

553
00:33:37,516 --> 00:33:39,636
Speaker 1: think it's a terrific album. I hope everybody hears it

554
00:33:40,396 --> 00:33:43,236
Speaker 1: when COVID is over. Is it something you're going to

555
00:33:43,316 --> 00:33:47,596
Speaker 1: tour with or do you have plans for it? Yeah?

556
00:33:47,636 --> 00:33:50,716
Speaker 1: But plans no, We're just it's hard to have any

557
00:33:50,716 --> 00:33:53,636
Speaker 1: plans that the only thing I'm hoping is that they

558
00:33:53,716 --> 00:33:56,676
Speaker 1: might try to pull off Newport Folk Fest this summer

559
00:33:57,156 --> 00:34:00,036
Speaker 1: because it's kind of a it's a fairly contained kind

560
00:34:00,036 --> 00:34:02,316
Speaker 1: of festival. It seems like if anyone could maybe pull

561
00:34:02,356 --> 00:34:05,116
Speaker 1: it off, it would be them. Okay, thank you so much.

562
00:34:05,196 --> 00:34:07,756
Speaker 1: It's been wonderful. We appreciate y'all. Thank you. Take care

563
00:34:07,956 --> 00:34:13,956
Speaker 1: so yeah, Andrew, Yeah, see Jim Bye buddy. Thanks to

564
00:34:13,996 --> 00:34:16,476
Speaker 1: Andrew Bird and Jimbo for hanging out with Bruce and

565
00:34:16,596 --> 00:34:20,036
Speaker 1: talking about the inspiration behind their new album These thirteen

566
00:34:20,476 --> 00:34:22,156
Speaker 1: Do you hear? A playlist of our favorite songs from

567
00:34:22,236 --> 00:34:26,276
Speaker 1: Jimbo and Andrew's careers, head to Broken Record podcast dot com.

568
00:34:26,436 --> 00:34:28,876
Speaker 1: Be sure to subscribed to our YouTube channel at YouTube

569
00:34:28,916 --> 00:34:31,676
Speaker 1: dot com slash Broken Record Podcast, where you can find

570
00:34:31,676 --> 00:34:35,076
Speaker 1: extended cuts of new and old episodes. You can follow

571
00:34:35,156 --> 00:34:38,156
Speaker 1: us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced

572
00:34:38,156 --> 00:34:42,676
Speaker 1: with help from Leah Rose. Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler,

573
00:34:42,956 --> 00:34:46,756
Speaker 1: and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering help from Nick Chafee. Our

574
00:34:46,796 --> 00:34:50,356
Speaker 1: executive producer is Mia Label Broken Record is a production

575
00:34:50,356 --> 00:34:52,876
Speaker 1: of Pushkin Industries and if you like the show, please

576
00:34:52,876 --> 00:34:55,516
Speaker 1: remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast.

577
00:34:56,476 --> 00:34:59,516
Speaker 1: The music expect any beats. I'm Justin Richmond, bass,