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Speaker 1: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson.

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Speaker 2: I'm a journalist who's spent the last twenty five years

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Speaker 2: writing about true crime.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Paul Hols, a retired cold case investigator who's

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Speaker 3: worked some of America's most complicated cases and solve them.

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Speaker 2: Each week, I present Paul with one of history's most

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Speaker 2: compelling true crimes.

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Speaker 3: And I weigh in using modern forensic techniques to bring

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Speaker 3: new insights to old mysteries.

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Speaker 2: Together, using our individual expertise, we're examining historical true crime

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Speaker 2: cases through a twenty first century lens.

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Speaker 3: Some are solved and some are cold, very cold.

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Speaker 1: This is buried bones.

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Speaker 3: Hey Paul, Hey Kate, how are you.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing really well? How about you?

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Speaker 3: I am doing great.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's enthusiasm. I like that.

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Speaker 3: I'm on my third energy drink this morning. So how

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Speaker 3: is that?

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Speaker 1: Looking good? Feeling good? Well?

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Speaker 2: I have some an interesting thing. I've been thinking a

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Speaker 2: lot about memory lately. My You know, you've heard a

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Speaker 2: lot about my dad. My dad when he died, he

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Speaker 2: left behind a wife, my stepmother, who died about a

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Speaker 2: year ago, and my cousin and I were gifted some

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Speaker 2: land and the property. And if you've heard the Ghost Club,

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Speaker 2: I talk about the Haunted Farmhouse. So we have that

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Speaker 2: and I haven't been on that property in years and

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Speaker 2: years and years. So one of the things that's been

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Speaker 2: like really interesting for me is going there after twenty

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Speaker 2: years and looking through stuff and you know, making discoveries

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Speaker 2: and everything. And one of the things that I've done

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Speaker 2: over the past couple of years that is not related

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Speaker 2: to this part of the story. But you know, every

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Speaker 2: time I go to London, I buy these drawings, these

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Speaker 2: vanity fair drawings of these men and their caricatures, and

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Speaker 2: they were drawn in the eighteen hundreds. They sell them

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Speaker 2: on Portobello Road, which is this wonderful antique district in London,

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Speaker 2: and you can buy them, and you know, I have

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Speaker 2: them framed, and it's like random politicians and statesmen and

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Speaker 2: you know, well known figures in the eighteen hundreds in

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Speaker 2: the UK, none of whom I've.

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Speaker 1: Ever heard about before.

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Speaker 2: But I love the drawings and I just think they're

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Speaker 2: sort of very I don't know, they remind me of

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Speaker 2: being in London, and so I have like twelve of

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Speaker 2: them over the years I've been collecting them, but I

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Speaker 2: have not been able to figure out why it's been

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Speaker 2: so long that I cannot figure out the origin of

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Speaker 2: why I even do it. I just know I'm like

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Speaker 2: compelled to collect these men because they just make me feel,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, relaxed and feel kind of at home.

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Speaker 1: You have anything like that, probably not?

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Speaker 3: Well, no, but I think you just answered your own

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Speaker 3: question right because you said you don't know why you

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Speaker 3: collect these men, but they make you feel relaxed and

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Speaker 3: at home.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, where did the first one? Is what I want

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Speaker 1: to know?

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Speaker 2: Where did the first man come from? And now we're

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Speaker 2: going to circle back to the farmhouse where my dad

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Speaker 2: died in two thousand and five, so you know, almost

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Speaker 2: twenty years ago. We circle back to the farmhouse. You

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Speaker 2: probably know where I'm going with this. We walk upstairs

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Speaker 2: and I look down and there's like a pile of

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Speaker 2: drawings and paintings. So I'm going to hold this up.

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Speaker 2: So look what I found. Oh yeah, okay, I found

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Speaker 2: the drawing that my dad bought. And then it all

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Speaker 2: can macts you.

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Speaker 1: It says the lawyer, because he was a lawyer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I remembered what happened that when my dad

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Speaker 2: taught in London and I went and visited him and

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Speaker 2: he said, let's go to Portobello Road.

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Speaker 1: Do you like antiques?

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Speaker 2: So I went and I was twenty two maybe or something,

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Speaker 2: so this is decades and decades ago, and I went

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Speaker 2: there and I then remember that is where he saw

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Speaker 2: this guy, the lawyer, one of the many of the men,

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Speaker 2: the drawings that were there, and he said, I'll buy

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Speaker 2: you one, and I'm going to buy this one, and

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Speaker 2: I said great, and he kept it all of these years.

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Speaker 1: And when I saw it, I thought, oh, my gosh,

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Speaker 1: that's why I do this. But I literally, Paul, I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't. It's not like I blocked it out. But

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Speaker 1: memory is so funny.

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Speaker 2: I just thought, oh gosh, this is it, this is

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Speaker 2: why I do this.

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Speaker 1: This is the first man he bought me one. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and that's something that you know. Of course,

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Speaker 3: I've personally experienced where I can try to remember something

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Speaker 3: because somebody asked me, you know, what happened in your past,

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Speaker 3: what happened in this grade, you know, at school, and

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Speaker 3: I can't remember, and then all of a sudden, there's

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Speaker 3: an association that's made and now I do remember. And

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Speaker 3: that's what I've experienced when I've talked to you, know

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Speaker 3: working cases, and of course, you know, I'm talking to

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Speaker 3: people who were attacked, you know, decades ago. What I

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Speaker 3: have learned is you have to put them back in

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Speaker 3: the moment. And that's this cognitive style interview, you know,

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Speaker 3: And it's leading up. Okay, before we talk about you know,

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Speaker 3: what you remember about the case, Let's talk about where

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Speaker 3: you were at in life at that point in time,

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Speaker 3: What car were you driving, where were you living, who

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Speaker 3: were your friends. Do you remember going out that night?

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Speaker 3: You know, and have them kind of get back into

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Speaker 3: that world. And now all of a sudden, the details

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Speaker 3: start flowing forward about the case. And so just like

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Speaker 3: you you didn't remember, and now you're at the farmhouse,

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Speaker 3: something you associate with your father, and you now see

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Speaker 3: this drawing, and now the details floodback.

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Speaker 2: Now I remember the first man that he bought me,

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Speaker 2: and then they all go kind of forward after that.

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Speaker 2: Now I have like twelve of them in my office

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Speaker 2: at UT So I just I thought that was so interesting.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: Memory is mysterious, and this is pertinent to the story

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Speaker 2: we're getting ready to talk to because this case that

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Speaker 2: we're about to unravel here has a very long memory,

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Speaker 2: which is good news.

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Speaker 1: For you, because it has a really.

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Speaker 2: Kind of satisfying I think conclusion sort of in that

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Speaker 2: we're going to have a lot more information than when

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Speaker 2: we normally have, but the memory is very long and

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Speaker 2: important when we talk about the people involved. So that's good,

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Speaker 2: and that's why I brought this up. And I just thought,

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Speaker 2: oh my gosh, now I know I get it now.

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Speaker 2: And the older I get, the more I forget those things.

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Speaker 2: And I never want to forget my dad or you know,

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Speaker 2: things that we experience, but without him here, it's just

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Speaker 2: like it's these little things. That's why I've been so

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Speaker 2: grateful to be on the farm and be able to

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Speaker 2: see everything.

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Speaker 3: You know, right, yeah, And that's I mean, you have

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Speaker 3: those special memories, and you know some will always be

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Speaker 3: present and some will fade, and you have to kind

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Speaker 3: of brighten those memories up by just thinking about them

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Speaker 3: over and over again just to make sure they.

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Speaker 2: Don't fade, and not to go over this again. But

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Speaker 2: I am not a possessions person. I've never cherished jewelry

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Speaker 2: from long ago. I don't keep trinkets I'm not sentimental

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Speaker 2: about like my grandma other's dining room table. I have

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Speaker 2: no problem discarding material things. But every once in a while,

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Speaker 2: you know, like my dad died of lung cancer. I

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Speaker 2: have his pipe. I don't know why, but I have

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Speaker 2: his pipe. It's little things like that. The older I get,

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Speaker 2: those little tiny things are important. So this drawing just

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Speaker 2: about gave me a heart attack when I saw. It's

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Speaker 2: nice though. I love that. That's the benefit of being

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Speaker 2: older is being surprised by your past a little bit,

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Speaker 2: I guess.

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Speaker 3: No, no, for sure. And you mentioned your dad's pipe.

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Speaker 3: You know my dad was a pipe smoker when I

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Speaker 3: was growing up, and you think about you know, that

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Speaker 3: is an object that was very intimate to your dad, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and so you could see where there would be that

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Speaker 3: sentimental attachment that you have.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, big sentimental attachment. It's nice. You know, my mom

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Speaker 2: is here so I can talk to her about all

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Speaker 2: the memories. But with my dad, I just have to

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Speaker 2: cherish little things like that. So I'm going back tomorrow

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Speaker 2: to continue to dig around and see when I was

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Speaker 2: in London when I'm very very young, when I was

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Speaker 2: at a study of broad program, I knew that he

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Speaker 2: and my stepmother had bought goblets from Canterbury, England, that

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Speaker 2: handmade goblets you know, to drink out of. And so

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Speaker 2: when I was very young, I went there and I

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Speaker 2: went to the same place and I had goblets made

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Speaker 2: and I brought them home. And now I'm on the

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Speaker 2: hunt for these damn goblets.

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Speaker 1: Now I need more memories. I can't stop. But it's nice.

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Speaker 2: It's nice, especially for someone who doesn't care about objects

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Speaker 2: very much. You know, it's a little surprising that I

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Speaker 2: have such sentimental value. But I agree with you. I

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Speaker 2: think you're right about the attachment. Sometimes it's nice to

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Speaker 2: relive stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and now you're going to become the crazy goblet lady.

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Speaker 1: I know I already am.

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Speaker 2: I'm the crazy dog lady, crazy kid lady, crazy goblet.

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Speaker 2: I'm just gonna I'm just going to keep collecting. Okay, Well,

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Speaker 2: let's switch gears here. We talked about memory and that

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Speaker 2: this case that we're about to talk about, Boy does

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Speaker 2: this go on for decades and decades. And I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to bury the lead. We're gonna talk a little

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Speaker 2: bit about how well we can preserve DNA over time,

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Speaker 2: eliminating suspects. I mean, this case just goes on and

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Speaker 2: on and on and on, So I think it's worthy

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Speaker 2: of a two parter.

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Speaker 1: So that's what we're doing here.

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Speaker 2: So along the way, I'll ask you to really kind

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Speaker 2: of think about, you know, evaluating these different people.

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Speaker 1: And I have some photos for you, so we'll see

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Speaker 1: what you think. But this is a good case to

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Speaker 1: dig into.

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Speaker 3: All right, sounds good looking forward to it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So let's set the scene.

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Speaker 2: So we are in Lane County, Oregon in the late seventies,

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Speaker 2: and there's so much happening with this story. I'm not

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Speaker 2: even going to pause to say, have you been to Oregon?

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Speaker 2: But what the hell have you been to Oregon?

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Speaker 1: Paul?

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Speaker 3: Yes, I had a book event when the hardcover came

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Speaker 3: out up in Portland, and that's when I had my

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Speaker 3: other podcast crew, Yardley, Dan and Dave from Small Town

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Speaker 3: Dix interviewed me on stage for that event, you know,

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Speaker 3: so that was my experience with.

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Speaker 1: Poor Oh all right, let's move through here.

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Speaker 2: This place that we're going to talk about, Lane County.

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Speaker 2: It is for outdoor enthusiasts, lots of camping, fishing, hiking,

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Speaker 2: hanging out on the Pacific coast. It sounds just absolutely beautiful.

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Speaker 2: And of course in the nineteen seventies, you know, this

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Speaker 2: is less industrial than we are now, and it just

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Speaker 2: seems rugged and amazing.

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Speaker 1: The case, though, is.

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Speaker 2: Eugene, Oregon. That's where we're going, and I have not

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Speaker 2: been to Eugene, but it's the home of the University

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Speaker 2: of Oregon. In the seventies, it was a really bustling

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Speaker 2: art scene, very progressive for that time period among the residents.

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Speaker 1: So that's kind of where we are.

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Speaker 2: We're in the northwestern part of the United States in

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Speaker 2: the nineteen seventies. Let's go through this setup. There's kind

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Speaker 2: of a lot of setup, but I do have some nice, big.

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Speaker 1: Pauses for you. This is a story about a missing couple.

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Speaker 2: And we've talked about these before, kind of the sweetheart

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Speaker 2: stories where people go out to be alone and then

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Speaker 2: something happens. We've done several of these, so just as

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Speaker 2: a reminder, these are unusual. A male and a female

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Speaker 2: going missing and then ending up dead, and there's one

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Speaker 2: potential perpetrator and that's it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, relative to women going missing, you know, just

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Speaker 3: single women going missing, couples going missing is occasional. You know,

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Speaker 3: it's not unheard of for sure. You know, we've covered

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Speaker 3: a story that I can recall, and of course I'm

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Speaker 3: aware of other cases you know that were cold cases

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Speaker 3: had ultimately got solved some recently, But it is relatively

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Speaker 3: rare for a couple to be abducted and go missing

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Speaker 3: just because of the presence of the male.

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Speaker 2: What would motivate somebody to murder a couple. Let's just

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Speaker 2: say it's one man. Why would you if you're one

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Speaker 2: man who has a weapon, why would you even risk

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Speaker 2: approaching a couple if your main object is to sexual

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Speaker 2: assault a woman or murder a woman, why even risk

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Speaker 2: dealing with the guy, even if he's a teenager, even well.

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Speaker 3: It's opportunity. What you see with these couples is that

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Speaker 3: the male is typically eliminated right away, and the offender

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Speaker 3: usually has the upper hand in terms of surprise or

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Speaker 3: has a weapon, whether it be a knife or more

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Speaker 3: typically with a male victim, a gun, and now the offender.

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Speaker 3: Once the male is eliminated, the offender can take his

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Speaker 3: time with his primary target of interest, which is the woman.

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Speaker 3: The reason that couples are being focused on is just

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Speaker 3: like what you talked about. You know, you see these

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Speaker 3: young couples, whether they be teenagers or younger adults, they

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Speaker 3: don't have a personal location where they can go and

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Speaker 3: be alone, and so typically they go out in their

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Speaker 3: vehicle or out into you know nature where they can

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Speaker 3: now have some private time together. So they've isolated themselves

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Speaker 3: and these offenders recognize that, and so they know where

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Speaker 3: these Lovers Lane type of areas are and it's a

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Speaker 3: victim pool that they can exploit.

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Speaker 2: So this is nineteen seventy seven. It's just past ten

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Speaker 2: o'clock on a Thursday night, June ninth, and there's a

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Speaker 2: call place to the Sheriff's department in Lane County and

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Speaker 2: it's a woman in Eugene.

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Speaker 1: Her name is Virginia A.

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Speaker 2: Dank and she's calling to report that her sixteen year

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Speaker 2: old stepdaughter has not come back by curfew and her

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Speaker 2: name is Leanna. And Virginia tells the police that Leanna

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Speaker 2: has left home earlier in the afternoon.

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Speaker 1: She's going fishing.

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Speaker 2: The sixteen year old with her seventeen year old boyfriend

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Speaker 2: whose name is Eric goldstrand they are at the same

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Speaker 2: high school. They're students at Eugene High School, and they're described,

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Speaker 2: of course as fun loving and happy teens. Almost always I.

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Speaker 1: Have a photo, not always do.

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Speaker 2: I think it's helpful for you to see a photo

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Speaker 2: of potential victims. But when we're talking about a young man,

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Speaker 2: a teenager, I think it's helpful if you can get

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Speaker 2: any kind of a sense for how mature he looks

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Speaker 2: or how builty looks. So this is the couple Liliana

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Speaker 2: and then Eric on the right. He looks like he's

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Speaker 2: actually kind of built. Seventeen year old.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, Eric, you know what I'm looking at.

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Speaker 3: And these are, you know, portrait photos, but I'm seeing

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Speaker 3: both Leon and Eric from basically their chest up. And

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Speaker 3: with Eric, you know what I'm looking at is the

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Speaker 3: breadth of his shoulders, the thickness to his chest, how

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Speaker 3: thick his neck is. You know, his neck looks like

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Speaker 3: it has some muscle to it, like maybe he was

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Speaker 3: a football player and you know, had to wear a helmet.

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Speaker 3: You know, I know when I played football in high school,

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Speaker 3: my neck size increased dramatically. You know that's just really

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Speaker 3: oh yeah, yeah, no, there's no question about it. Because

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Speaker 3: your your neck is just used to supporting the weight

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Speaker 3: of your head, and you throw a almond on there

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Speaker 3: and now you're doing specific exercises for the neck. The

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Speaker 3: neck muscles grow, especially in your teenage years, and he

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Speaker 3: looks he looks like a robust male physically. Now that

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Speaker 3: doesn't mean that translates into him his capability in terms of,

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Speaker 3: you know, could he defend himself against an offender. But

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Speaker 3: most certainly he does not look like what I would

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Speaker 3: classify as a gracile male or this kind of less

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Speaker 3: robust male. He looks like he somebody that is physically imposing.

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Speaker 3: With her, you know, I have a harder time really

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Speaker 3: getting a sense for her physicality. But she she does

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Speaker 3: not come off as being very petite when I look

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Speaker 3: through her neck, and at least I don't see the

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Speaker 3: breadth of her shoulders because she's partially her right shoulder

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Speaker 3: is cut off, but she doesn't look tiny. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 3: but again, without seeing more of her, it's it's really

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Speaker 3: hard to judge what her physical is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so now that you know what they look like,

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Speaker 2: let's go on with some more details. So Eric and

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Speaker 2: Leanna were planning to go fishing in the Fall Creek

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Speaker 2: area of Lane County, which is about a twenty mile

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Speaker 2: drive from Eugene. So at four o'clock, Leana and Eric

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Speaker 2: set out in Eric's truck and they are going about

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Speaker 2: twenty miles away from Eugene to this area called Fall Creek.

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Speaker 1: And that's where they want to go fish. So obviously

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Speaker 1: both outdoorsy type people. I mean, if you're taking.

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Speaker 2: Your girl out and you're in high school and she's

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Speaker 2: going fishing and she's happy to do it, obviously these

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Speaker 2: are outdoorsy type of people and have done this I'm

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Speaker 2: assuming before, right.

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Speaker 3: Possibility unless you know, he's the fisher and she's just

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Speaker 3: kind of hey, you know, I know this is what

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Speaker 3: he likes and I'm going to go and experience it.

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Speaker 3: But I think living in this particular area of the country,

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Speaker 3: it wouldn't surprise me that both of them had prior

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Speaker 3: experience fishing, and maybe, you know, their love of nature

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Speaker 3: is what drew them together.

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Speaker 1: Could be.

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Speaker 2: So they take off in the truck and Eric's mom

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Speaker 2: sent them off with a big picnic dinner that's sweet,

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Speaker 2: so they could enjoyed on the trip. Leanna and Eric's

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Speaker 2: parents said, you guys need to be back by ten pm.

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Speaker 2: But Eric called his stepfather, I'm presuming from a payphone

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Speaker 2: not long after they left Eugene to go to the

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Speaker 2: fishing spot, and he said that he was having trouble

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Speaker 2: with his truck. And he said, Eric is very responsible.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like he said, if we are not home

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Speaker 2: by our curfew, you guys should probably come looking for us,

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Speaker 2: because I might be having trouble with my truck. I

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Speaker 2: wanted to take a look at this truck that seemed

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Speaker 2: so unstable. But still he was willing to go drive

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Speaker 2: near the end of the day twenty miles to go fishing,

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Speaker 2: when probably it would have been dark. I don't know

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Speaker 2: eight o'clock or nine o'clock, So I wanted to show

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Speaker 2: you a photo of the truck. Unless you don't think

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Speaker 2: I should be alarmed by this truck having potential mechanical problems.

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Speaker 1: Maybe this is going to date you, Paul. Do you

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Speaker 1: recognize this kind of truck? This is way out of

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Speaker 1: my time.

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Speaker 3: Oh, well, that truck actually predates my time.

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Speaker 2: It's a rough looking truck. I can tell you that

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Speaker 2: that's what I think.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this this truck. You know, I am not real

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Speaker 3: good when it gets into these older vehicles, but it

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Speaker 3: most certainly looks like a truck that is predating the

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventies. You know, this possibly is a truck from

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Speaker 3: the late fifties into the sixties, is my guess. I

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Speaker 3: can't see the make. I don't know if this is

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Speaker 3: a Chevy or a Ford, but it's a white two

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Speaker 3: door truck. So literally it's probably just got a bench

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Speaker 3: seat in the cab. At most maybe three people could

365
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Speaker 3: could ride in this truck. It looks like there's some

366
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Speaker 3: paint issues on the outside rough rough and even the

367
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Speaker 3: tires look like they're a little bit on the Warren side.

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Speaker 3: So that tells me in all likelihood that mechanically it

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Speaker 3: wasn't kept up either, you know.

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Speaker 1: So don't the tires.

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Speaker 2: Look small for a truck of this size? I wonder,

372
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Speaker 2: I don't. Maybe that's the style.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Those are tiny, almost like car tires on what I

375
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Speaker 2: think is like a big, hulking truck.

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Speaker 1: It looks like to me.

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Speaker 3: Now, yeah, the tires are too small. They're not stock

378
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Speaker 3: tires for this this truck. And that may be, you know,

379
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Speaker 3: maybe for you know, an expense, you know, to get

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Speaker 3: the proper sized tires, where the truck would have been

381
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Speaker 3: more expensive because there would be larger tires, So smaller

382
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Speaker 3: tires were put on just and I don't know the

383
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Speaker 3: family situation, you know, the financial situation, but maybe Eric

384
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Speaker 3: as a teenage boy was the one responsible, and you

385
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Speaker 3: know he's having to you know, make money at minimum

386
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Speaker 3: wage and deal with the mechanical issues of the truck

387
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Speaker 3: as he could afford it.

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Speaker 2: Well, whatever the case, he is having problems with this truck,

389
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,800
Speaker 2: and so he warns his folks that if you know,

390
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,600
Speaker 2: you don't hear from us, you better come looking. We're

391
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:12,159
Speaker 2: not skipping out on our curfew. We're having problems. So

392
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Speaker 2: I showed you also, you know, the truck, and you

393
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Speaker 2: could see that they were in a wooded area. It

394
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Speaker 2: was a campground. There's not much in the background. And

395
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Speaker 2: actually this is a good time to tell you that

396
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,280
Speaker 2: there were few photos f at all. And we had

397
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Speaker 2: to pull photos from a cold Case Files DNA Speaks

398
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 2: episode on Hulu and it was called Horror in the Dark,

399
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,119
Speaker 2: so it's been covered by Hulu before, and so we

400
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:39,800
Speaker 2: had to get some of these photos off of that

401
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,439
Speaker 2: site just to be able to show you some of

402
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,800
Speaker 2: the evidence, because you know, this case was not particularly

403
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 2: well covered. So it's ten o'clock and the family is saying, okay,

404
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 2: where are they? The parents just say, you know, we

405
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 2: don't know what's happening here. He warned us about this truck,

406
00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 2: we probably better start heading that way to figure out

407
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,280
Speaker 2: where they are, And this is six hours after they

408
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 2: were last seen. The parents who really sound the alarm

409
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:11,880
Speaker 2: first is Eric's mom and his stepfather. So Eric's mom

410
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 2: and his stepfather go out to this area of the

411
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Speaker 2: Broken Bowl, which is a recreational area where they were

412
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Speaker 2: going to do this fishing, and they finally fined after

413
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 2: two hours Eric's truck and it's in the parking lot.

414
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Speaker 2: And this Broken Bowl that they call it consists of

415
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Speaker 2: a bunch of different campsites and some picnic areas, very

416
00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 2: heavily wooded, with a nearby river where of course they

417
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 2: could fish, and this is exactly where the couple wanted

418
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 2: to go. So they say, well, the truck's here, they're

419
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 2: around here somewhere. Maybe they got lost. Eric's mother looks

420
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 2: in the trunk and they find their clothes, and they

421
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,600
Speaker 2: knew they had their swimsuits with them, so they figured

422
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 2: maybe they went swimming in the river and something might

423
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 2: have happened because the clothes are there in their neat,

424
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 2: but then swimsuits aren't there, so they're just assuming they're

425
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 2: wearing the swimsuits. Both of them had valuables with them.

426
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 2: Leana had to watch and Eric had a wallet. Those

427
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 2: are still in the vehicle, so they're supposed to be

428
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 2: wearing swimsuits.

429
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:07,640
Speaker 1: They're not there.

430
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,440
Speaker 2: The truck is there, doesn't look like anybody's broken into

431
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,160
Speaker 2: the truck, and they still have valuables there. This does

432
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Speaker 2: not mode well, I'm assuming because it doesn't sound like

433
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 2: robbery is a motive. I've never really understood why, if

434
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 2: there is something else that's a motive, why the person

435
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 2: would not just after they kill or do whatever they

436
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 2: wanted to do, go and just for the heck of it,

437
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 2: take money out of the truck. Or if they're thinking

438
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 2: so far ahead that they don't want to be caught

439
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 2: in any way and so they don't bother to take

440
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:36,800
Speaker 2: a wallet which could have a lot of money in it.

441
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:41,160
Speaker 3: Well, there's multiple variables at play here. You know, you're

442
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 3: talking about Leon and Eric having swimsuits. Leon has left

443
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 3: her watch behind, Eric has left his wallet behind. You know,

444
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 3: these are items that you don't want to take into

445
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 3: the water with you. So it's very possible that they

446
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 3: got out there and hey, let's go for a dip,

447
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:02,199
Speaker 3: and now they're leaving these value the truck. They're going

448
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 3: to isolate themselves away from the truck, so the offender

449
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 3: may never interact with them around the truck area. He's

450
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 3: now just interacting with them. Now Let's say they're in

451
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 3: the river swimming around, or they're on the shore. So

452
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:21,679
Speaker 3: there's that aspect. The other aspect is this is something

453
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 3: that I pay attention to when I'm dealing with victims' bodies.

454
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:30,560
Speaker 3: I've had victims who have been killed, but valuables, expensive

455
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 3: rings have been left on and this is what informs me,

456
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 3: you know, this was not a financially motivated crime. The

457
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,160
Speaker 3: offender was there to interact with the victim, and typically

458
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 3: it's that sexual interaction, sexual assault. The homicide is why

459
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 3: the offender is doing this attack. Doesn't care anything about

460
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 3: the money or the valuables that might be present. So

461
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 3: this starts to inform me if this offender with Leon

462
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 3: and Eric, you know, if that offender was aware that

463
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 3: these valuables were present inside the truck and chose to

464
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 3: leave them behind, it gives me a sense for that

465
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 3: offender's motive.

466
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 2: And if this were not a true crime story, and

467
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 2: if I were a parent, I would say, well, I mean,

468
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 2: this is either really good news or really bad news.

469
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 2: The good news is their valuables are still there, so

470
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,919
Speaker 2: somebody didn't try to carjack them or rob them. And

471
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 2: their clothes are neat and they're wearing the swimsuits. Maybe

472
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 2: they got lost, I mean, maybe somebody got injured, but

473
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 2: not murdered. And then there's the flip side, if you're

474
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 2: thinking very darkly, which is what we know, which is

475
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 2: you know you've got a killer out there whose robbery

476
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,159
Speaker 2: is not the main motive. So I guess we're just

477
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 2: going to have to see. So the truck is found

478
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 2: at around it sounds like about midnight.

479
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 1: They've been gone since four pm.

480
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 2: Eric's parents find a payphone and they call the police,

481
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 2: but the deputies in Eugene have already been talking with

482
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 2: Leanna's mom Virginia. So the deputies in Virginia get in

483
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 2: the car and they start heading toward the Broken Bowl,

484
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 2: which is about twenty miles away, and they start looking

485
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 2: for the teens. Everybody gets there, they find Eric's parents.

486
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 2: Eric's mom stays with the truck in case they come back.

487
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,919
Speaker 2: Eric's stepfather takes some flashlights and they start searching the

488
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 2: recreational area, which must have been absolutely terrifying. There's no

489
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 2: street lights out there. It is pitch black, and here

490
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 2: they have flashlights. And then, just to set the scene

491
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 2: of what sounds to be like the most terrifying horror

492
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 2: movie ever, a reporter described the park in what it

493
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,960
Speaker 2: sounded like at night. So it's just these people walking around,

494
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 2: but they said that the natural sounds coming from this

495
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 2: park at night were so overwhelming it was almost frightening.

496
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: The reporters said that the water flowing over a rocky

497
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,360
Speaker 2: stretch of Fall Creek becomes louder the closer you get

498
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 2: to it, enough to cover the cars passing by on

499
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 2: the highway right near it. And it's loud enough to

500
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: wrap a person in his own thoughts and isolate him

501
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 2: from the outside world, the reporter notes, for sure, loud

502
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 2: enough to conceal an assault or murder. Sounds like Niagara

503
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,920
Speaker 2: Falls almost And I think the reporter makes a good note, right, Yeah.

504
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 3: You know, it's funny. I think you said this sounds

505
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 3: like something out of a nightmare or horror movie, and

506
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 3: to me this sounds like bliss. I'm thinking, yeah, running water,

507
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 3: I can't hear the cars. This is exactly why I

508
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 3: go out into the middle of nowhere but at the

509
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 3: same time, yes, you do have natural sounds. And this

510
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 3: is an important observation that if there had been an

511
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 3: interaction with an offender and Leon and Eric around this location,

512
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 3: this running water most certainly, you know, with the way

513
00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 3: that you've described, it would hide potential sounds that could

514
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 3: have come from a struggle, could have muffled or confused listeners.

515
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 3: Am I hearing somebody scream or shout? That is real?

516
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 3: You know when you get out into nature, you know

517
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 3: a lot of times it's like, wow, it's so quiet

518
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 3: out here. But in certain locations you have the running water,

519
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,719
Speaker 3: and if you have you know, rapids, or you have

520
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 3: even a smaller waterfall, there is a volume to it.

521
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 3: You have creatures out there, whether it be the birds chirping,

522
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 3: or you have you know, wolves out there, or you

523
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 3: have the crickets. You know, that is a fundamental backdrop

524
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:50,479
Speaker 3: that has volume to it that unless you're used to

525
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,439
Speaker 3: listening to that as the backdrop and picking out something

526
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 3: that is foreign, such as a human screaming out that

527
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 3: human made just be assumed that human voice may just

528
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 3: be assumed to be part of that natural backdrop to

529
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,359
Speaker 3: a listener's ear. That's not used to hearing this backdrop.

530
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,880
Speaker 2: All of it sets up a scene of the mom

531
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 2: being left at the truck by yourself, and these men

532
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 2: with flashlights stumbling around the woods with loud water, not

533
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 2: knowing which direction to go to, and scared to death

534
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: that they are going to find their children's to bodies.

535
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 3: Oh sure, And you know, I've looked at photos of

536
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,200
Speaker 3: this Broken Bowl campground location and this is a very

537
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 3: very dense forest. So at night with just you know,

538
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 3: back in the nineteen seventies, you know, the flashlights do

539
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 3: not even come close in terms of brightness to the

540
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 3: newer flashlights that are used today. You would not have

541
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 3: been able to see much unless you literally stumbled across

542
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 3: either Leon or Eric. So very ineffective search at night

543
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 3: in this particular type of location, but you have to.

544
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 3: You have to go try to find them, hoping they're

545
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 3: just you know, they got carried away with the time,

546
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 3: you know, and lost track of oh we need to

547
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 3: get back for curfew, or they got lost and you

548
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 3: stumble across them. But things are sounding a bit sinister here.

549
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 2: They are, so well, just to go over the timeline

550
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: one more time. They leave Eugene at four, we presume

551
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 2: probably they arrive between four thirty and five to Fall

552
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,719
Speaker 2: Creek that area to the Broken Bowl, and they were

553
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: supposed to be home at ten, which means they probably

554
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: to be safe, should have left at.

555
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: About nine fifteen, and they didn't.

556
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 2: The parents go and they get there at around midnight

557
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 2: and are searching around with no luck until around two

558
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 2: thirty in the morning. So these poor parents, Leanna's mom

559
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: and Eric's mother and stepfather have been searching around for

560
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 2: two and a half hours. When searchers find Leanna's body,

561
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 2: she's behind a picnic table. So I mean, you have

562
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 2: I have to think pitch black and a ton of

563
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: recreational areas. They finally find her, she's beside a picnic table.

564
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 2: She's lying on her back with her arms by her head,

565
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 2: and she's been shot to death. She is completely naked

566
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 2: and her bathing suit is on the ground beside her.

567
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: And I have a photo, but you got.

568
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 2: To remember this is pulled from a Remember we don't

569
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 2: have actual photos. We have photos that were pulled from

570
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 2: the Hulu show. So there's been some stuff that's been redacted,

571
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 2: so you're not going to have as much information because

572
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 2: it's for television. They did not show everything. This is

573
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 2: the discarded bathing suit at the crime scene, and I

574
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 2: can zoom in if that helps. Looks like a bikini

575
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: to me, right next to his fishing kit or her

576
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 2: fishing kit.

577
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, basically I see a tackle box, fishing rods, what

578
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 3: I'm assuming is a leg to this picnic table. And

579
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 3: then right next to the tackle box appears to be

580
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 3: the top part of the bikini. Looks like it's a

581
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 3: white or very light colored bikini. It's hard for me

582
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 3: to tell if the bikini straps have been cut. I

583
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 3: can't tell that or just undone. And then the bottom

584
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 3: to her swimsuit is on the bottom of the photo,

585
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 3: maybe a twelve inches fourteen inches away from the tackle box.

586
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: So it's just like a moment in time.

587
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 2: It looks like they were wearing bathing suits and getting

588
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 2: ready to go fish or coming out and wearing the

589
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 2: bathing suits. And now everything's on the ground. And then

590
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 2: I can show you a photo of where the body

591
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 2: was and where the picnic bench is. So see they

592
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 2: redacted her body. Then we don't see it, but it

593
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 2: looks like there's what a grill, you could see the

594
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 2: stuff on the ground.

595
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a photo you know, which is taken.

596
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 3: I can see the fundamental object in the photo is

597
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 3: this picnic table. And then just to the right of

598
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 3: the picnic table is this permanently installed charcoal grill. And

599
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 3: that's where the tackle box and the fishing rods on

600
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 3: the ground are next to. And so what I initially

601
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,239
Speaker 3: thought was in the prior photo the leg to the

602
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 3: picnic table is actually the post that this charcoal grill

603
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 3: is on. And then her swimsuit is at the base

604
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 3: of that charcoal grill. Now where her body has been

605
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 3: redacted from. I can't tell if her head is closer

606
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 3: to the charcoal grill or laying away, but the ground

607
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 3: where she's laying appears to be hard pack. You know,

608
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 3: this would be a very poor even though it's dirt,

609
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 3: it's probably very poor for shoe impressions. And then in

610
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 3: the backdrop behind the picnic table shows very dense forest

611
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 3: shrubbery ferns. So this, you know, somebody could easily hide

612
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 3: back there. Bodies could be discarded back there or hidden

613
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 3: back there. And so it's important to note that the

614
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 3: offender left Leanna laying in playing view and didn't make

615
00:32:55,760 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 3: an attempt to move her body to hide it. The

616
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 3: offender either was comfortable that just by leaving the victim

617
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 3: in plane view next to the picnic table, that it

618
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 3: would be some time before somebody would discover her and

619
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 3: would have enough time to be able to escape, or

620
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 3: want it to in essence send a message in a

621
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 3: way leaving Leanna displayed to be found.

622
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 2: Well, I have one more photo for you of the

623
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 2: picnic table, which I just want to show it to you.

624
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 2: I'm not sure it's going to be helpful. It's a

625
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,719
Speaker 2: close up of the picnic table and it says picnic

626
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 2: table with towel on top next to Leanna's body. So

627
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 2: I don't know how helpful that is. Can you see

628
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 2: the flip flops on the lower right hand side?

629
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know this is a photo, a closer

630
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 3: photo of the specifically of the picnic table that on

631
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 3: the far end of the table appears to be this

632
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 3: light colored or white towel. And then I can see

633
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 3: flip flops on the ground to the right underneath the

634
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 3: bench seat of the picnic table. Those flip flops look

635
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 3: like somebody would have just stepped out of them versus

636
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 3: being pulled off of you know, victim's feet and being

637
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 3: tossed by the offender. The lush vegetation. Of course, again,

638
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 3: just leaving Leona out in playing view is interesting to me.

639
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 3: What's notable at this point in time, and I'm sure

640
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 3: you're going to get into it, is well, where's Eric?

641
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 2: Hmm, yeah, that is one of the things. That's the

642
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 2: problem is where's Eric? Because it is two thirty in

643
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 2: the morning when they stumble across her body. One thing

644
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 2: I wanted to note about that area for listeners. To me,

645
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,719
Speaker 2: when I think of a recreational area, I think if

646
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 2: just like my local park where you kind of drive

647
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,800
Speaker 2: up and about fifteen feet away you bring your.

648
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: Cooler and there's the area.

649
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 2: And to me this looked like sort of it had

650
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 2: been like cut out this little cul de sac of

651
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 2: an area. I don't know how close it is for

652
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 2: people to haul stuff, you know, food and stuff like

653
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 2: that over. So this does feel very isolated to me,

654
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,160
Speaker 2: and I know you had said that too. It looked

655
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 2: very isolated and scared to then find your daughter laying

656
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 2: there with no clothes on, with a swimsuit and fishing

657
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 2: poles in a tackle box and some flip flops and

658
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 2: a towel lying nearby. And no boyfriend to be seen,

659
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 2: and now the police are alarmed because they wonder if

660
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 2: Eric had something to do with this, because she's there,

661
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 2: But where the hell is Eric? Let me tell you

662
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 2: the original investigators are now incredibly concerned. Of course, they

663
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 2: have a dead teenager here on the ground, and they

664
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 2: don't know where the boyfriend is. But it is so

665
00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 2: dark that they say we cannot go on, and they

666
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 2: were afraid that they were going to step on evidence

667
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 2: in the dark that would compromise the scene. Okay, you're

668
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 2: nodding your head. I was wondering if these police from

669
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy seven made the right decision. But what if

670
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 2: Eric is hurt and lying nearby and they all walk away.

671
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,479
Speaker 2: It doesn't seem like a good decision either way.

672
00:35:58,560 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: You're stuck.

673
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 3: Well, there's you know, preservation of life is always first

674
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,879
Speaker 3: and foremost, you know. But this is where, in this situation,

675
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 3: this is now where you get the resources, search and

676
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 3: rescue type resources out there. But you also establish a

677
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 3: perimeter around Leona's body. You have a crime scene, and

678
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 3: in this situation there would be a in and out path.

679
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 3: You establish a perimeter with crime scene tape, you limit access,

680
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,399
Speaker 3: You only go in and out through a select path

681
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 3: that has been cleared of any potential evidence, and you

682
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 3: set up decent lighting, you know. And in the nineteen

683
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 3: seventies they don't have the same type of lighting setup

684
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 3: that crime scene investigators have today, but you could still

685
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,440
Speaker 3: at least light up that scene. However, artificial light is

686
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 3: not a substitute for sunlight, and so we often would

687
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 3: hold a scene that happened at night that we're processing

688
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 3: and wait until the sun came up to see what

689
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:03,760
Speaker 3: else we could see, because we could see so much

690
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 3: better in sunlight. The priority is Leana's body, you know.

691
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:14,359
Speaker 3: So with this established perimeter, established ingress egress pass under

692
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 3: artificial light, I could document and collect evidence from Leana's body,

693
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 3: get a death investigator corners representative out there, and have

694
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 3: Leona's body transported without fear of compromising the rest of

695
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 3: the crime scene. But then you hold that crime scene

696
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 3: until sunlight, and now you start doing your intensive processing

697
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 3: looking for other evidence. That would be the way that

698
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 3: I would approach this particular case under these circumstances. Meanwhile,

699
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 3: you have search and rescue looking for Eric.

700
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 2: They do exactly what you're talking about at six thirty

701
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 2: they come back, they are concerned Eric is a suspect.

702
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 2: They have no idea what's happening. You know, they have

703
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 2: secured Leanna's body. I don't know if they've taken her

704
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: away in the middle of the night. I don't know

705
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 2: what has happened. But they come and look in the

706
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 2: area again and he was found dead. He was just

707
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 2: twenty five feet away from her. He was near bushes

708
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,359
Speaker 2: and underbrush. That is how dark it was out there,

709
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,319
Speaker 2: twenty five feet and they didn't find him until six

710
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 2: point thirty the next morning, four hours later.

711
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 3: Well, it doesn't surprise me at all, you know. Now,

712
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 3: of course, my question is was he intentionally hidden? Was

713
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 3: he back in the brush, had he been killed back

714
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 3: in the brush, or was he in plane view not

715
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 3: back in the vegetation, and they just their flashlights never

716
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,760
Speaker 3: crossed where his body was laying.

717
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what the report says, and then I'll

718
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 2: show you the photo. I'm not sure it's the perfect photo,

719
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 2: but what the investigators say is that it's twenty five

720
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 2: feet from Leanna's body, but not underbrush, near brushes and

721
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 2: near underbrush. But my goodness, I mean, it would be

722
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 2: almost impossible to find anything. It didn't appear to them

723
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 2: that either of their bodies had been concealed in any way.

724
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 2: They just couldn't find him because it was so dark outside,

725
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 2: and they probably had walked past Rush to get to

726
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 2: the area where he was dumped. He was wearing his swimsuit,

727
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 2: so she wasn't and he was. And I'll show you

728
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 2: the photo right now. I mean, it looks like it's

729
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 2: a clearing though actually.

730
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 3: Well, you know, this looks like a photo taken from

731
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 3: what I would call a bird's eye view, somebody standing

732
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 3: above where Eric's body is located at and completely even

733
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 3: though these black squares are redacting Eric's body out there

734
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 3: is a little bit of a clearing in the vegetation.

735
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 3: But what I am keying in on is everywhere around

736
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 3: Eric's body basically is thick vegetation. Maybe there was a

737
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 3: walking path that came into this little clearing. However, this

738
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,760
Speaker 3: really explains why they didn't find Eric in the middle

739
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 3: of the night, even though he's only twenty five feet away.

740
00:39:55,560 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 3: He is not necessarily hidden, but he's probably like from

741
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 3: Leanna's body, he's not in a straight line view, just

742
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 3: laying out in the open, you know, so he most

743
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 3: certainly would have all this vegetation and branches and leaves

744
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 3: that are going to camouflage his body under these narrow

745
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 3: dim beams of nineteen seventies era flashlights.

746
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 1: I had wondered this.

747
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 2: So he was also shot and it sounds like he

748
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 2: was shot in the back. If you look at the

749
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,760
Speaker 2: top of this photo, that could potentially be a path

750
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 2: at the top. I wondered if he was running and

751
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 2: he thought this was going to be a path and

752
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 2: it wasn't. This looks like a dead end to me.

753
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 2: And he was shot trying to get out, is what

754
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,520
Speaker 2: it could have been. I don't know, though, I can't

755
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: tell that's a path or not. That's something I mean,

756
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 2: maybe he was crashing his way through branches to try

757
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 2: to find a way out.

758
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 3: Well, you know, right now, just with the information I have,

759
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 3: I can't reconstruct anything. Is it possible an a Fender

760
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 3: was you know, lying in wait and then Eric you know,

761
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 3: went into this location to you know, urinate and boom,

762
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 3: you know, he gets shot in the back. He's now

763
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 3: dispatched and the offender can now go and go hands

764
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 3: on with Leanna or under you know your theory, you know,

765
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 3: maybe Leon and Eric are confronted by the offender near

766
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 3: the picnic table, and Eric takes off running an he shot.

767
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,439
Speaker 3: This is where now getting the evidence? What is the

768
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 3: distance of the shot to Eric's back? What is the

769
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 3: distance of the shot to Leanna? Is it one gun

770
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,800
Speaker 3: being used? Do we have two guns having been used?

771
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 3: You know, there's more details that I need in order

772
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 3: to truly reconstruct the events and try to get a

773
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 3: sense of what happened in the victim's final moments.

774
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 2: Well, I have a very rudimentary map, a cold case

775
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 2: team sketched of this crime scene.

776
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: Do you want to see it?

777
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 3: I'll showed to absolutely.

778
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: I don't mean to laugh at sketches. We're happy to

779
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 1: take anything.

780
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,879
Speaker 3: Well, you know, this is a hand drawn sketch, and

781
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 3: this is is very typical of crime scene sketches that

782
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 3: occur out in the field. You know, some people are

783
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 3: capable of producing very well drawn sketches. Most people are

784
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 3: not drawers, and fundamentally, a crime scene sketch is to

785
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 3: show spatial relationships and oftentimes are very crude looking CSI

786
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 3: can always go back into the office and do a

787
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 3: much nicer sketch, but here this is really showing me

788
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 3: the layout as crude as it is, it is so

789
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 3: informative in terms of, Okay, I can see where there's

790
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 3: this primary trail or road that goes to I'm going

791
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,399
Speaker 3: to just say, let's see if there's a north arrow

792
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 3: on here. Okay, see the arrow in the left hand

793
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 3: corner of this sketch that very well could be the

794
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 3: north arrow, even though I would have liked to have

795
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,719
Speaker 3: seen an end there just to designate that. But now

796
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 3: what I'm seeing is is if I were to flip

797
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 3: this for that arrow to be facing north here, there's

798
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 3: a road that runs north south, and then there's these

799
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 3: offshoots off that road that goes back to where Leana's

800
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:19,240
Speaker 3: body is and her body's relationship to where the picnic

801
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 3: table is located at. And then there's multiple items of

802
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 3: evidence that are being pointed out and where they are

803
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 3: in this crime scene sketch. And then north of Leana's

804
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,800
Speaker 3: body there's this log. And now you see where Eric's

805
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 3: body is relative to the picnic table and Leanna's body.

806
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 3: So Eric is a distance away. Now this is only

807
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,839
Speaker 3: twenty five feet, per what you said, but it does

808
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 3: show that he is isolated away from Leana. He's also

809
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 3: closer to the stream and the bank. So is it

810
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 3: possible that the offender could have approached this location instead

811
00:43:57,239 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 3: of from the road, but from the bank of the stream,

812
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 3: you know. So this is now where I'm starting to go. Okay,

813
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 3: of course, I just want to start gobbling up details

814
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 3: so I can start to figure out how did the

815
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 3: offender accomplish his crime? Is it one offender is at

816
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 3: multiple offenders? But this is a critical piece of information.

817
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 3: As crude as it looks, this is very informative for me.

818
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 2: Well, that's good to know, because I thought this was

819
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 2: going to be worthless. But that's good.

820
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: This is why I don't.

821
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:29,240
Speaker 2: Skip out on giving you fits. So let's keep going

822
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,160
Speaker 2: because I'll give you some autopsy results here in a second.

823
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 2: So the police are saying it does not look to

824
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 2: them that anybody tried to cover this up, because the

825
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,880
Speaker 2: teenager's bodies just don't seem to be concealed in any way.

826
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:46,280
Speaker 2: Before long, they start to figure out what the couple's

827
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 2: cause of death is. We've talked about gunshots, but Leanna

828
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: had been shot three times in her chest, her forehead,

829
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 2: and her left temple. Gosh, and Eric had been shot twice. Okay,

830
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 2: hold on, to me, maybe this doesn't line up with

831
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 2: the runaway theory. He had been shot twice, once in

832
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 2: the chest from a distance, in another time at the

833
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 2: top of his head, and it's a twenty two caliber weapon.

834
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 3: During a shooting incident, the victim often isn't in like

835
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 3: this stationary in this anatomic position. As the victim is

836
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 3: being shot, the victim is moving. In this scenario, let's say,

837
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 3: with a twenty two. Obviously it's going to be a

838
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 3: smaller caliber. It's one of the smallest caliber weapons that

839
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 3: are generally used. You have Eric being shot in the chest.

840
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 3: I can't sequence his two shots. But a scenario he

841
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 3: shot in the chest and then ends up bending over

842
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 3: and now the top of his head is in the

843
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 3: line of sight of the muzzle of the gun. The

844
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,560
Speaker 3: offender's not even moving, and the offender ends up shooting Eric,

845
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 3: and you know with the trajectory that goes into the

846
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 3: top of his head because he's now bent over and

847
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,960
Speaker 3: Eric collapses. You know, this is where an autopsy in

848
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,760
Speaker 3: terms of the pathologist determining the trajectory of these bullets

849
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 3: through the chest through the head, the one on the head.

850
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,800
Speaker 3: Is there any stipling, is there any gunpowder surrounding the

851
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 3: entry wound would indicate that possibly the offender came up

852
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 3: and executed Eric as he was either bent over or

853
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 3: laying on the ground. And then with Leanna again, you

854
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 3: have a shot to the chest, her left temple, I

855
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 3: think you said, in the forehead. Again, it's what other

856
00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 3: observations are made about the trajectories into Leana's body. Is

857
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 3: there any indication of the distance that the firearm had

858
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 3: been used, and is there any sequencing information in terms

859
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 3: of she's found nude? So I'm assuming that there is

860
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:51,600
Speaker 3: a sexual assault of some sort. Did the sexual assault

861
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 3: occur prior to her being shot or did it occur

862
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 3: after she was shot. I'm assuming there's going to be

863
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 3: some details about evidence that was found at autopsy from

864
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:02,320
Speaker 3: Leanna's body.

865
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 2: So they find seminal fluid on her body and on

866
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 2: towels that have been left nearby. That's probably the towel

867
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 2: that was laying on top of the picnic table. They

868
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,280
Speaker 2: do not find right now evidence that she was sexually

869
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 2: assaulted vaginally. I had a theory when I read that.

870
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 2: I had wondered if maybe he got interrupted because you

871
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 2: got it on her body and on towels, but they're

872
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 2: not saying in.

873
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 3: Her First, I have to be told that this semen

874
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 3: is not Eric's.

875
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 1: It is guaranteed to not be Eric's.

876
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, not his. So now we have foreign semen.

877
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 3: It's on the outside surfaces of her body as well

878
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:45,720
Speaker 3: as on this towel. The interrupted sexual assault is a possibility.

879
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 3: But obviously the offender got to a point of ejaculation,

880
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 3: so the know and and ejaculated outside her body. Now

881
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 3: when that occurs is most likely after she's been shot

882
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 3: and killed. They still don't have enough information to sequence

883
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,720
Speaker 3: when Eric is killed relative to when Lean is killed.

884
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 3: But going back to sort of the beginning, you know,

885
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 3: typically the mail's dispatched first. But if Eric is still

886
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 3: let's say, in the water, and the offender approaches Leana

887
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 3: and doesn't know Eric exists until Eric emerges up out

888
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:22,840
Speaker 3: of the brush coming up from the bank, you know,

889
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 3: then now you could see where Leona possibly could have

890
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 3: been killed first. Now the offender is having to turn

891
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:29,399
Speaker 3: his attention to Eric.

892
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 2: Well, let me give you some more information. The police

893
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,719
Speaker 2: put up roadblocks. They're trying to get anyone who might

894
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 2: come in and out. Of course, this is six thirty

895
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:38,399
Speaker 2: or seven in the morning.

896
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: At this point.

897
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 2: One of the newspaper's reports that a fisherman had told

898
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 2: police that he heard a gunshot around seven thirty that night,

899
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 2: so a couple of hours after we expected them.

900
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: To have arrived.

901
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 2: But the police told the reporter it was tentative information

902
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 2: and as you're going to find out, this doesn't go

903
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 2: to trial, so we don't know if that's really what

904
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 2: the timeline is. So the investigators are scouring the scene

905
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 2: and they canvass the woods, and a helicopter performs an

906
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 2: overhead search. They find some beer cans in the parking lot,

907
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 2: some oil that they think was left behind by a motorcycle.

908
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 2: But they're not sure if these things are related to

909
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 2: the murder.

910
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 1: But they do have that.

911
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 2: Seminole fluid that they collect, so they are of course

912
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 2: operating on the idea that this is going to be

913
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 2: a sexual assault. So they also start looking for fingerprints.

914
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 2: We all know where the fingerprints were found, but they

915
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 2: pull some fingerprints and they compare it with what's in

916
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 2: the national database, but there are no matches. What is

917
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 2: the national database in the nineteen seventies, Is that a computer?

918
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 2: What would that even be for fingerprints.

919
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 3: Oh, back in the nineteen seventies. So you know, for

920
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 3: decades up to that point, the FBI had a massive

921
00:49:57,120 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 3: database of hard copies of all these ten print cards

922
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 3: from people who had been arrested. And of course local

923
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 3: agencies also had these ten print cards. You know, this

924
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 3: is literally inking arrest these fingers up and rolling them

925
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 3: on these cards, and so you get all ten fingers

926
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 3: and also as well as getting palm prints and select instances,

927
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 3: and these used to be filed according to the Henry system,

928
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 3: and so you would classify based on the characteristics of

929
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 3: the fingerprints for that person. You could give it a

930
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 3: classification and file that per the Henry classification. So when

931
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 3: you get a latent, you go, okay, I see where

932
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 3: if you have enough of that that person's prints left behind,

933
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 3: you could go to this database, this hard copy database,

934
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 3: and pool groups that would fit within that classification. I'm

935
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:59,879
Speaker 3: not entirely sure when the FBI completely computerized. My reckle

936
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 3: election was more in the nineteen eighty four eighty five timeframe,

937
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:08,240
Speaker 3: when we started to see this APHIS system, the automated

938
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:12,800
Speaker 3: fingerprint index system that the FBI had start to mature

939
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:17,919
Speaker 3: from a computer search standpoint, I'm drawing a blank as

940
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 3: to Okay, from the seventies into that early eighties exactly

941
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 3: how the Lton examiners were searching this huge bit of

942
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 3: ten print cards that they all had access to.

943
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 2: I think that's interesting because I was thinking, what what

944
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 2: would this even be And frankly, just you know, straightforward,

945
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 2: they didn't find a match to any of the fingerprints

946
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 2: they pulled, and it must have been on something they

947
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 2: thought was key, but they had no luck. And the

948
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 2: families are really panicking at this point because the police

949
00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 2: are doing everything in their power. They have carried out

950
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 2: countless interviews, multiple polygraph tests, ballistics tests, they've looked into

951
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 2: senders in the area, and they just are not coming

952
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,840
Speaker 2: up with anything. And eventually, with no resolution in sight,

953
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 2: Leanna and Eric's parents are so desperate. So one night,

954
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 2: Leanna's stepmother, Virginia, says that Leanna visited her in a

955
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 2: dream and names the killer, which leads nowhere, of course,

956
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 2: but this spurs an idea with the family, which is

957
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 2: Virginia and her husband eventually decide to hire a psychic.

958
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 2: And you can tell me about whether a psychic is

959
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 2: going to be helpful in any case, let alone this

960
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 2: case in our next episode. I have to leave this

961
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 2: here so we'll see what the psychic has to say

962
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:47,879
Speaker 2: next time.

963
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: I mean, is this psychic going to be helpful?

964
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 3: I hope so well, you can only hope, but I

965
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:56,720
Speaker 3: guess I'll spare my thoughts until the next episode about

966
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:57,240
Speaker 3: the psychic.

967
00:52:57,640 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll see you in about a week and I'll

968
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: catch you all right.

969
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 3: Sounds good, Kate.

970
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: This has been an exactly right production for our.

971
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 3: Sources and show notes go to exactlyrightmedia dot com slash

972
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 3: Buried Bones sources.

973
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Alexis Emosi.

974
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 3: Research by Maren mcclashan, Ali Elkin, and Kate Winkler Dawson.

975
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: Our mixing engineer is Ben Tolliday.

976
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 3: Our theme song is by Tom Bryfogel.

977
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,000
Speaker 1: Our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

978
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 3: Executive produced by Karen Kilgarriff, Georgia hard Stark and Danielle Kramer.

979
00:53:32,680 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 2: You can follow Buried Bones on Instagram and Facebook at

980
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 2: ary Bones Pod.

981
00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 3: Kate's most recent book, All That Is Wicked, a Gilded

982
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 3: Age story of murder and the race to decode the

983
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 3: criminal mind, is available now

984
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 2: And Paul's best selling memoir Unmasked, My life Solving America's

985
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:50,839
Speaker 2: Cold Cases is also available now