WEBVTT - Is the Anti-Immigrant Reform UK Ready to Take Charge? 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:13.319 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio News. Welcome to in the City. 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:15.640 Each week we unpack a story that's crucial to the 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:16.880 world's financial capitals. 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:19.360 I'm from sin Leatwa and I'm David Merritt and Dave. 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:22.680 This week a conversation with Zia Usoof, businessman turned rising 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:24.640 politician in the Reform UK Party. 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:27.280 That's right, and this comes as a new survey by 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.760 IPSOS puts the Reform Party, which is led by Nigel Farage, 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:34.320 on thirty four percent. That's nine points ahead of Labor 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:38.720 and the Conservatives a distant third. So if the figures 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.320 in the survey were to be replicated across the country 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:45.479 in an election, Reform UK would win a majority. It's 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:47.559 quite a change from the results we saw less than 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:49.640 a year ago at the last general election. 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:52.720 So we wanted to get Zia Usoof on to talk 0:00:52.760 --> 0:00:56.200 about what he thinks is behind reforms rise in popularity, 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.720 but also more importantly, what policies we could expect from 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:03.760 a form government, especially in challenging geopolitical time like these. 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:06.120 And after the conversation was here you'll hear from our 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:10.320 UK Politics correspondent Lucy White. She's been covering reforms rise 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:12.880 and policy platform, and we wanted to get her perspective. 0:01:13.280 --> 0:01:13.720 One of our. 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:18.319 Conversation Welcome to the City of London, the city of the. 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:19.920 City of the City of London. 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:28.560 Mind the gap between the. 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:34.959 Financial hearts of the country, the city, the city. Welcome 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:35.759 in the. 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:43.520 City, clear of the doors, Siyah Yusuf. Thank you so 0:01:43.600 --> 0:01:44.880 much for joining us. 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:46.319 My pleasure to be here. 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:50.160 Now. You have quite an unconventional actually past your businessman 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.360 You worked for a lot of the big American banks 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:54.800 and then you set up a company which you then 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:57.640 sold and went into politics. Tell us about that. 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:01.240 Yeah. So I'm the son of Sri Lankan immigrants into 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:04.120 the UK. They came to Britain in the early nineteen eighties. 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:07.040 My father just qualified as a doctor there to go 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:08.679 over the work. While so I was born up in 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:12.120 Bellshill in Scotland. I studied at the LSC, worked at 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:16.640 a couple of American investment banks, quit that job to 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:20.160 start a tech company, grew that for nine years, successful 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:23.799 outcome thankfully sold it to an American bank. Then when 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:26.239 Nigel Fraus said he was coming back into British politics, 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:28.400 I could see there was a glimmer of hope for 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:30.760 the United Kingdom, the country that I love. So I 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:32.640 decided I wasn't going to jump ship. I was going 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:34.760 to stay here and fight to try and turn the 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:36.239 country around. And that's what I'm doing. 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:39.600 This podcast dives into the issue that really matter around 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:44.080 here in the square mile, and Reform is about reforming politics, 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:47.760 about reforming the economy. Is your city background core to 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:49.920 the policies that you're what was the. 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.160 Definitely, Look, it was the formative stage of my career. 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:52.360 You know. 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:55.360 The first five years after I graduated were spent on 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:58.400 a trading floor on one of your terminals, twelve hours 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:00.760 a day pretty much, and I loved it. I was 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.480 so grateful for the teams I got to work in. 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:05.640 They really invested in and look, you also get a 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:07.960 real sense of I got to go and visit great 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:11.640 companies like air Bus and companies like Daimler and you know, 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:14.520 British engineering companies like Spyroxaca, and you really get an 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:17.320 understanding when you walk around these factories of what makes 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:19.720 a great company, what makes a less good company. And 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:21.679 one of the things I think Reform has got in 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:25.160 its leadership team is, frankly, just people understand however reasonably 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:27.400 good understanding of how the world actually works. 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:29.799 But it was my understanding actually by speaking to people 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:32.639 that were close to this, that you were so when 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.480 you were chairman for eleven months of Reform, your job 0:03:35.600 --> 0:03:39.120 was to professionalize the party. So this gives an idea 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:41.320 that actually, you know, you were there to make it 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:44.280 more credible, to give more policies so that people understood 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.600 what Reform actually stood for. At the moment, it feels 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:48.560 more like culture Wars, and so. 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:50.120 I disagree a bit with that. When I joined the 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:53.280 party's chairman, but Nigel asked me to do that job. 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:56.200 They basically wasn't a political party, frankly. So one of 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:58.520 the things I don't think people necessarily appreciate about Reform's 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:00.440 journey over the last year. It was only in June 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:03.080 last year in Nigel announced he was coming back to 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:05.240 run to be an MP in Clacton and the party 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.200 had no MPs. We had about nine counselors and we 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.160 were polling at around ten percent. Today we're polling at 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:14.200 thirty thirty four percent. The book makers have us as 0:04:14.200 --> 0:04:16.359 the favorite to be the next government, Nigel favorite to 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:18.640 be the next PM. We've got north of a quarter 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:22.080 of a million members, that's grown fourfold, and so we've 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:24.400 built all of this. We've got four hundred branches across 0:04:24.400 --> 0:04:26.919 the country. You know, you mentioned that IPSOS poll that 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:30.400 IPSOS pulpits reform just six points away from having more 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:32.600 support than Labor and the Tories combined. 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.279 So, I mean, he's a controversial figure. I can't see 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:39.120 many business people around him apart from you. Is it 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:43.000 because the opposition is weak? Or is it because Reform 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:44.800 is really doing the right things? I mean, is this 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:46.400 like a moment for reform? 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:49.520 Well, it definitely is a moment for reform. Richard Tights, 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:51.960 the deputy leader and former leader, is also a successful 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:55.760 entrepreneur and businessman and has contributed immensely to this journey 0:04:55.839 --> 0:04:57.719 and policy formulation like the ones that we just have. 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:00.400 So look what we have at Reform. It is a 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:03.719 small team. We only have five MPs. Now they're formidable MPs. 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:07.320 We only have five, but we have a men's support 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:10.160 across the country and what we have done already as 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:12.320 a result of those made the first election, this wasn't 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:14.680 a poll, this was a natural election. So I wouldn't 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:16.640 understate what's just happened now We've still had a lot 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:18.760 of work to do. We are still years away from 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:22.240 a general election. I can tell you partly because I've 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:23.760 got asymmetric data on this. 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:25.360 There are so. 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:28.680 Many brilliant people coming forward wanting to help reform, both 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:31.240 behind the scenes and to be front of house and 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:31.960 front line. 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:35.120 I don't know whether reform has the A list, the 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:38.279 A game. I mean, everyone's trying to kind of find 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.800 space for itself and speaking to a population that's maybe 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:42.800 fed up with something. Yeah. 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:46.160 Look, it's perfectly reasonable to say that the British public 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:50.320 are utterly sick and tired of the two old parties. 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.120 Given this is Bloomberg and we're talking about the economy, 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.440 Britain should be one of the most prosperous countries in 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.159 the world. We still have great assets in this country, 0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:01.880 a dynamic fun system. We still have I think, the 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:04.159 best people, the best language, the best time zone. We 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:06.360 have the rule of law in an excellent way here, 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:11.640 and we have a talent base in areas like finance 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:14.640 and AI for example, in the AI era, which should 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:17.840 mean that British people writ large are benefiting. Instead, what 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:21.480 we're seeing is an unprecedented brain drain British people and 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:24.320 wealthy non doms are fleeing the country at an unprecedented rate. 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:26.640 They're going to Singapore and Dubai, and they're even going 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.719 to America. We've got to turn all of that stuff around. 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:32.039 The only way that's going to happen is if you 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:35.440 have a first principles approach as and you're really focused 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.280 on how you're going to get the economy growing again 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:41.320 on a per capita basis, and that's what Reform are doing. 0:06:41.680 --> 0:06:44.320 This process of kind of professionalizing the image of Reform 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:46.960 feels like a big challenge. Robert Headlines have been on 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:51.200 in fighting controversies around individual members. Yourself stepped back from 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:54.520 your role just this month, saying how you were feeling 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:56.760 burnt out. You know you've done high pressure jobs in 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:58.560 the past. Tell us a little bit about that process 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:00.280 this week, why you left, and then why you came 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:01.040 back so quickly. 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:03.440 So look, I basically I had a day off in 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:07.599 eleven months, and people listening to this business brings a 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.200 certain level of pressure. Politics is a whole different level 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.040 of pressure. And as I said, not just building and 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:16.520 assembling a political party from scratch in real time, also 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:19.320 doing everything else that the political party need to do 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:21.240 and tell us why I came back. Look number one 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:25.200 I received I was inundated, which is lovely heartfelt messages 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:29.560 from reform supporters, voters and members who expressed just how 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:31.960 important the reform movement is to them. It's not just 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:35.480 a political party for many people. That represents the last 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:39.040 hope the country has to This great country has whom 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:41.640 so many people have laid down their lives for to 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:44.520 turn itself around. And look, as I said, I was 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:47.120 exhausted and my decision making at the time wasn't great. 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.080 We reversed that very quickly. Look, I came into politics 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:52.040 in no small part because of Nigel, and I'm going 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:53.680 to continue to spend all my time trying to make 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:54.520 him the Prime Minister. 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.080 I know you criticized her at poachin right, who was 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:01.760 basically urging cure Starmer to ban the burker and the 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:05.080 interest of public safety, and you said it was done 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:06.880 for a party to task a PM to do something 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:09.360 that the party itself, your party itself, wouldn't do. Do 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:10.040 you stick by that. 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:12.200 I didn't criticize Sarah. Let me care about something. The 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:15.320 number one serias of phenomenal MP I speak almost every day. 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:17.800 She's a good friend. I was instrumental in getting her selected, 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.440 getting her elected, and she's going to be such a 0:08:20.440 --> 0:08:24.400 formidable asset to the country. Look that tweet which I 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:28.240 sent out, which I definitely regret now what the point 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:30.320 I was making to I was frustrated because I didn't 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:32.719 know that question was going to get asked. In hindsight, 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:34.679 perfectly reasonable for me to have not known. I'm not 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:37.640 an MP, So I regret that tweet. I don't mind 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:38.040 saying that. 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:39.880 Can you just give us a sense? So when we 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:41.360 speak to a lot of people, they say I'd like 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:43.200 to know a little bit more about reform, but we 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:45.560 don't really know where they stand on the economy, So 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:48.440 it's you talk common sense without a lot of I 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:52.160 guess policy details. So can you give us an idea 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:54.400 of what you would do, for example, for this UK? 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:58.080 DOAJE like the money is very limited right for any 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.920 chancellor to play around with? So where are you finding efficiencies? 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.679 Well, that is a line that the establishment always uses, 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.920 right the money. My favorite one is quote difficult decisions 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:11.000 need to be made. How many times have you heard that? Right? 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:13.280 But I mean we run the numbers at Bloomberry. I mean, 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:14.439 there's just not a lot of money. 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:16.040 Well, hold on, hold on, So let me give you 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:20.240 some big numbers. That so fifteen billion in foreign aid, right, 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:22.439 five billion a year in terms of free accommodation to 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:26.160 asylum sequels and illegal migrants, and that's per year. The 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.800 twelve billion in net zero costs that will be found 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:32.760 directly inside government departments. The real number is much higher 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:36.480 and I can go into that. So there's straightaway is 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.280 almost forty billion, and you're going to have and there 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:41.160 are so many other line items in the budget. When 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:42.839 you start peeling this stuff back, I mean you look 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:46.000 at the big consulting firms. Some of your listeners might 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:48.360 not appreciate this, but the big four accounting firms and 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:51.839 the strategy consultants won eight and a half billion pounds 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:55.199 in national government tool contracts over the last five years alone. 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:57.640 So the notion that there is no money to be 0:09:57.679 --> 0:09:59.880 saved is for the birds. Now, it is also true 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:03.680 this country is almost three trillion in national debt. But 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:07.079 the bottom line is the British economy is not growing. 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:09.360 I mean talk about point seven percent. That's less than 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.480 the population is growing just from immigration. If we do 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:14.920 not get the British economy growing meaningfully on a per 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:19.559 capita basis, this country is headed to an extremely bad place. 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:22.079 The way we're going to do that is by cutting 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.679 spending on things that are wasteful. We have to get 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.360 our welfare bill under control, and difficult conversations do have 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:28.640 to be had about it. Of course there are some 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.120 people who need benefits not of course that is true, 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:33.680 but it has never been easier to get onto benefits. 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:36.360 So we have to get the welfare bill per capita 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:39.600 down to where it was back in twenty nineteen. That 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:41.640 will free up a lot of money to reduce the 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:45.160 tax burden on working people. And we also have to 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:48.040 buy the way be really honest that we need wealthy 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:50.920 international job creators wealth creators. 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:51.000 To be here. 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:52.800 We don't need them fleeing. We want them here in 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:54.520 the UK. That's a big part of what our policy 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:58.080 announcement was today. If you talk to us a demisacebas 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:00.160 at deep mind, for example, you know Jensen Wang from 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:02.240 Nvidia was talking about he do you use the term 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.880 goldilocks a situation for AI in the UK. We have 0:11:04.920 --> 0:11:09.559 a significant percentage of the world's finest AI engineers graduating 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:13.240 from our universities likewise in areas like biotech, and then 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.360 we also have to start manufacturing here again. We can 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:20.559 have a new manufacturing revolution with cutting edge manufacturing techniques 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:23.400 in the country, and we need people who understand economics, 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:27.040 understand business in charge of making the most important economic 0:11:27.120 --> 0:11:28.240 decisions in this country. 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:30.600 When I speak to global investors, and I'm talking about 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:32.880 in a Blackstone, black Rock, even some of your old shops, 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:35.080 Colman Sachs, I mean, they're quite bullish on the UK. 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:37.880 It's a bad neighborhood out there. The US because of 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:42.600 trade and tariffs, looks like less attractive investment right now. 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:46.080 Great, great, But here's the point. The British economy has 0:11:46.080 --> 0:11:48.480 had virtually no growth now for a very very long time. 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:51.280 And you can arguing about whether it's point three or 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.000 point seven, it's pointless. The reason why people in this 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:56.960 country feel like they're getting poor is because real wages 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.920 have done nothing now for about two decades. Real GDP 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:02.559 capita has done nothing for about two decades. This is 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:05.720 the other thing in business, there's accountability, right. You know, 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:07.959 if you're a chief executive and you're paid a lot 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:11.439 of money and you're very powerful. If you make bad decisions, 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:13.240 the markets will see to it. You are not the 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:18.120 CEO for very long. Right in politics and inside the bureaucracy, 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:21.040 not only do you not face consequence as you're promoted, 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:23.120 you're put into the lords. That's what has happened on 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:25.760 these big military contracts that have gone massively and overspent. 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.400 HS two. This country is paying eight times more per 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:33.800 mile of high speed rail than China or France, eight 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:37.640 times more. Why is that? If we win a majority 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:39.720 in the House of Commons with Nigel as the Prime Minister, 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:42.200 we can make sweeping reforms. We will have a great 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:44.520 repeal Act and we can go and solve these problems 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:45.240 root and branch. 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:47.560 I was just going to ask how you're going to 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:51.640 do it, so you have a repeal Act for what specifically? 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:53.959 So well, that's what we're working on as we speak. 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:56.319 I think this country has way too many laws, way 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:59.079 too many regulations. A lot of those have to be repealed. 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.360 We can get into it. The e CHR that prevents 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:04.000 multiple convicted illegal migrants. 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.560 Touring thousands of staff in Washington and across multiple government departments, 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.480 people being barred from entry. It's been pretty extreme. Do 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:13.000 you see a version of that here with a reform company. 0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:15.560 Not not necessarily. I mean, if you zoom out a minute, right, 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.679 what's happening is endless outsourcing. We're now at the stage 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.880 where a contractor is now running the recruitment program for 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:24.599 the British Army. While that's happening, the cost and the 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:27.840 headcount of the civil service has ballooned by fifty percent 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:30.760 over the last decade in government in the civil service. 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.880 Literally you're ramping up spending on outsourcing and agencies and 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.320 contractors and ramping up the size of the civil service. 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:39.319 I think you can have the size of the civil 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:43.200 service and actually deliver a better service to taxpayers. 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:44.559 A couple of things on dough I mean, do you 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.720 have an early update on your DOGE project and working 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:51.240 with ten councils that reform now controls, So what sort 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:54.120 of savings have you actually identified concretely? 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:57.360 Yeah, so, look, we already have one number on its 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.240 early days and a lot of what we're doing is analysis. 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:01.080 But I'll give you one exact sample. One of our 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:05.560 Cabinet Minister's Cabinet members in West Northamptonshire Council was presented 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:08.079 with a Microsoft contract for millions of pounds and told hey, 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:10.320 you've got like three days to sign this off, otherwise 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.880 they'd be penalties. Now that's funny that there'd be penalties 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.240 for a contract that you haven't even signed yet. He 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:17.320 pushed back and did a really good job and saved 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:21.240 nine hundred and sixty five thousand pounds on that contract 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.800 straight away, And that was within the first week of 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:26.000 arriving in the council. And what does that tell you? 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:27.960 It's actually a reason to be bullish on the UK 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.440 because there's so much waste there sort of people who 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.160 are sitting there signing those contracts off historically a big 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:37.920 Microsoft contract where it's obviously massive gross margins. Right, Clearly 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.640 most of these companies have been taking councils and taxpayers 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:43.800 for a ride. I don't really blame them because it's 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.040 up to the councils. It's up to the civil servants 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:48.520 and the politicians to fight the corner for the taxpay 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:50.680 As soon as a reform person turned up, they did 0:14:50.680 --> 0:14:53.040 that and they saved nine hundred and sixty five thousand 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:54.880 pounds within the first seven days. 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:57.560 What do you say to the accusation that, actually, because 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:01.160 you've also promised tax cards. It feels a bit like reminiscent. 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:06.200 Although so at local level we certainly haven't haven't promised any. 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:08.840 Time, but you have at the at the national levelt Yes, 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:10.840 that's true. Great. I mean some people are worried that 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:13.920 this is the spell of a lost trust disaster type. 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.600 Liz Truss did not announce any spending cuts Nigel's foot. 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:20.400 Nigel stood up and gave a spech a few weeks 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.440 ago and announced three to four hundred billion pounds of 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.400 spending cuts to happen inside his first term as Prime minister, 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:31.120 funded full stop. That's exactly right. Here's the irony. We're 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:33.720 formerly the only people who have a leadership team with 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.840 experience of balancing some quite large budgets. What we're saying 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.800 is we need to dramatically cut spending on things. Like 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:41.680 I said, the twelve billion on net zero that'll be 0:15:41.680 --> 0:15:45.000 found in director in budgets, the fifteen billion in foreign aid, 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.000 and the five billion in terms of asylum. There's a 0:15:48.000 --> 0:15:49.360 lot more. I mean, you look at the money that 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:51.760 is hidden inside these quango budgets. You look at the 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:54.520 money that's being spent on these on these consultancies and 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.560 these agencies, vast amounts of money. That's the work that 0:15:57.560 --> 0:15:58.000 we're doing. 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.240 Now you're also trying to I mean I had a 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:02.720 question on you know, trying to basically take reform into 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.600 the mainstream. And while you're leading in the polls, there's 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:08.080 still a lot of voters, whether fairly or not fairly, 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:11.440 that associate your party with racism. Are they wrong? 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.400 Of course, And I think that that's now So if 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:18.760 you are leveling that claim reform, you are now calling 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.400 that epsos pole leveling that claim at more than third 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.080 of the public in the UK. Any human who has 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:26.440 been in the UK for more than five minutes knows 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:28.400 that that claim is absurd on its face. 0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:30.680 But there must be a perception. I mean, the perception 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:32.440 is still there. You can't deny that. 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:36.680 It might be there for people who are brainwashed by 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:39.960 certain media outlets that they might watch. But look, frankly, 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.120 we're coming across that less and less and less, and 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.840 the more that we have been attacked without hominem attacks. 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:47.840 Partly it is because they can't engage us on the arguments. Secondly, 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.760 the result of all of this silliness being you know, 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:54.760 so ideologically possessed that that's the only argument against us 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:56.880 is that the country continues to go to the dogs. 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.120 And I put it to you that the more people 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:01.400 here from reform, the more they hear from Nigel and 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:03.800 our MPs, the more they like us. That's the evidence, 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.480 and the opposite is true of other political leaders in 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:07.080 this country. 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.000 Can I pivot a bit to again back where we 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:10.399 are in the city of London and what we care 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.080 about more than anything on this podcast is what the 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.400 future holds for the city. So what people think about 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:18.639 you say is important. Do you care what the city 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:21.600 thinks about you as a former banker and what plans 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:23.800 would you have in place to improve the fortunes of 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:24.760 the financial services. 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:26.840 We need to know. The city of London was once 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:30.359 the greatest financial center in the world. We need a 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:32.679 strong city of London. I think it is. It is 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:36.119 massively overregulated, no doubt about that. You saw our cryptopolicy 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.800 for example. We've got to lean into the technologies of 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.560 the future. Yes, of course there needs to be some regulation, 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:43.800 but it's gone way way too far. We need to 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:46.240 do things on taxation and look, the first act that 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:47.800 we want to cut is the one for people earning 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.359 less than twenty thousand pounds a year. One of the 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:52.480 reasons why the city of London is suffering it's people 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:55.000 are worried about law and order. People are terrified of 0:17:55.359 --> 0:17:57.400 walking around late at night. They can't wear a nice 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.679 watch anymore. They kind of hold their phone out in public. 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:03.320 I grasp it with two hands as if their life 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:05.480 depends on it, because in some cases it actually does. 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:07.080 So we have to do all of those things. And 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:08.679 one of the interesting things I'll tell you as well. 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:13.000 I spend a lot of time in Runcorn during the 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:15.360 run Corn and Hellsby Parliamentary by election. And there are 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:17.960 some pretty deprived areas, not all of it, but there's 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:20.240 some pretty deprived areas of Runcorn, and there are people there. 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:23.280 We would hear time and again on the doorsteps, people saying, look, 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:25.240 we set our alarm clocks in the morning, we do 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:29.280 everything right. We pay into the system, so did my parents, 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:32.720 and life has become endlessly more difficult. The cost of 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:35.320