1
00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:05,680
Speaker 1: Also media, whoa.

2
00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,680
Speaker 2: It's behind the bastard's time already. Oh my god, I

3
00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:13,360
Speaker 2: would never have guessed because I woke up mere minutes ago.

4
00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:15,800
Speaker 2: Even though it is it's later than it should be.

5
00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:16,200
Speaker 3: Uh.

6
00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,040
Speaker 2: This is a podcast about bad people, the kind of

7
00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,119
Speaker 2: people who keep you up at night, Which is the

8
00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:25,720
Speaker 2: excuse I'm going with here to distract you from the

9
00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:30,280
Speaker 2: holes in my story and the inconsistencies. Is Miles Grayay,

10
00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:32,320
Speaker 2: thank you, Miles.

11
00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:32,880
Speaker 4: How you doing.

12
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:36,320
Speaker 3: I'm good. I know I'm gonna be better because you know,

13
00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,879
Speaker 3: I'm kind of going through a down bummer period and

14
00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:41,680
Speaker 3: the point of this show is to cheer people up, right,

15
00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,040
Speaker 3: So I'm just I'm just so looking forward to hearing

16
00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,760
Speaker 3: about something that will uplift my soul and get me

17
00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:48,680
Speaker 3: kind of out of this rut since my house burned

18
00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:50,720
Speaker 3: down earlier this year. And I'm just really feeling like

19
00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,199
Speaker 3: you're gonna You're gonna lift my spirit. So I'm so

20
00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:54,160
Speaker 3: happy to be here, man.

21
00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:56,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Sophie sent me a text the other

22
00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,960
Speaker 2: day saying, I think Miles is having a rough one.

23
00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,480
Speaker 2: You know, it's been it's been a hard year for

24
00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,759
Speaker 2: him and his family. Maybe we bring him on we

25
00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,800
Speaker 2: talk to him about a fake cancer cure that killed

26
00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:11,200
Speaker 2: shitloaded children and also gave birth to the right wing

27
00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,560
Speaker 2: anti medicine movement that's culminated in RFK Junior just trying

28
00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:17,839
Speaker 2: to destroy vaccines.

29
00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,399
Speaker 4: As a concept. You know, let's just talking about that

30
00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:20,120
Speaker 4: and cheer them up.

31
00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, how you feeling, buddy?

32
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:24,240
Speaker 3: Great?

33
00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:25,720
Speaker 4: Yeah?

34
00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,160
Speaker 3: Oh fuck? Where's my vape pen?

35
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,920
Speaker 2: I mean it's yeah. Those are load bearing for a

36
00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:33,080
Speaker 2: lot of people these days.

37
00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,119
Speaker 3: We're all recording.

38
00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,120
Speaker 2: Again, we all keep learning, you know, how how much

39
00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,600
Speaker 2: wisdom there was buried in those Load of the Rings movies.

40
00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,720
Speaker 2: I get Gandalf just constantly every ten seconds.

41
00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,240
Speaker 3: Like, no, man, I need something, I need a hit,

42
00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,040
Speaker 3: I need that shire weed. Now.

43
00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:49,880
Speaker 4: Ship is fucked up right now?

44
00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:52,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, because he's like damn, He's like, how'd you blow

45
00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,320
Speaker 3: that dragon out? He's like, I don't even know, man, Yeah,

46
00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:56,040
Speaker 3: I don't even know.

47
00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,680
Speaker 4: When you smoke enough, that shit just happens.

48
00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:00,640
Speaker 3: Happens, man.

49
00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,520
Speaker 2: Other things that just happen is Americans being like, you know,

50
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,200
Speaker 2: all this medicine we've got that like works sometimes, what

51
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,400
Speaker 2: if we used medicine that doesn't ever work? And except

52
00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,280
Speaker 2: for when it kills your children and then what if

53
00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,760
Speaker 2: we made defending our right to poison our own kids

54
00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:23,520
Speaker 2: and ourselves with that nonsense into like the only actual

55
00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,320
Speaker 2: right that is protected in the United States today. Like,

56
00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,680
Speaker 2: there's really one right that you have as an American

57
00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,679
Speaker 2: that has not in any way been impeded by the

58
00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,800
Speaker 2: rush of you know, the current regime, and that is

59
00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,400
Speaker 2: the right to put whatever you want in your body

60
00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,360
Speaker 2: as long as it will poison you and someone tells

61
00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,840
Speaker 2: you it's a cure for cancer, right, Right, That's an

62
00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:45,160
Speaker 2: absolute right you have.

63
00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have the right to be God, I think

64
00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:51,320
Speaker 3: is what so much of like the American attitude is too.

65
00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:53,080
Speaker 3: On some level, It's like I have the right to

66
00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,760
Speaker 3: be the creator or destroyer of worlds.

67
00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,960
Speaker 2: Mainly of my own children. Right, Like that's that's because

68
00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:00,639
Speaker 2: that's the root of what we're talking talking about here.

69
00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,120
Speaker 2: This is why I wanted to do this episode, is

70
00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,040
Speaker 2: I think there was a lot of people who got

71
00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,760
Speaker 2: confused in the last ten years as all these like

72
00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:13,960
Speaker 2: kind of weird crunchy different like health fad by people

73
00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,000
Speaker 2: who believe, you know, in these weird different like health diets,

74
00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,480
Speaker 2: which traditionally was kind of seemed kind of more left

75
00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,280
Speaker 2: coated especially with a lot of the oh I don't

76
00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,040
Speaker 2: trust big pharma, I like herbal medicine. And you know

77
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,200
Speaker 2: that all took a lot of those communities took a

78
00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,880
Speaker 2: hard right turn and have kind of been embodied in

79
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,480
Speaker 2: the support for RFK junior, and it surprised people. And

80
00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,000
Speaker 2: this story is about how that stuff has been going

81
00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,480
Speaker 2: on a long time. Like we are talking about the

82
00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,040
Speaker 2: first step on the roads to RFK junior, on the

83
00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,160
Speaker 2: roads to the anti vax, like the modern anti vax movement,

84
00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,800
Speaker 2: on the road to people taking ivermectin and poisoning themselves

85
00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,840
Speaker 2: to as a cure all for everything. Like this is

86
00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,200
Speaker 2: the first drug, not just this is not the first

87
00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,200
Speaker 2: quack drug Americans got into, but it was the first

88
00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,000
Speaker 2: major fake cancer cure. And it was the first time

89
00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,400
Speaker 2: a fake drug came out. There was a backlash against

90
00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,800
Speaker 2: it from the professionals, and the political right wing lined

91
00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:13,760
Speaker 2: up behind it to support it in an organized way.

92
00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:15,920
Speaker 2: This is this is how the far right got in

93
00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:19,440
Speaker 2: bed with quack medicine. Wow, the story of a drug

94
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:20,440
Speaker 2: called latrill.

95
00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:26,400
Speaker 3: Wow. Great, So we're walking up to the actual crossroads

96
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,800
Speaker 3: where we started down the road of completely fucking ourselves over.

97
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, now Ladrill is l A E t r I

98
00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:34,560
Speaker 2: l e.

99
00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:40,279
Speaker 3: Oh spree will that is okay, My bad, my bad,

100
00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,920
Speaker 3: Yeah you have you have his sneakers on. So I

101
00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:44,040
Speaker 3: thought you knew he.

102
00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:48,160
Speaker 2: Also killed Steve McQueen because this latrell killed Steve McQueen.

103
00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,320
Speaker 2: Oh really yeah, yeah, this is how fucking Steve McQueen

104
00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:52,599
Speaker 2: dies taking this stuff.

105
00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,360
Speaker 3: I mean he had cancer, but right right, right, Oh,

106
00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:56,880
Speaker 3: but he was all in on that latrill.

107
00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he went to fucking Mexico to get it.

108
00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,159
Speaker 1: Jesus, such a bummer.

109
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,320
Speaker 2: There's so much Mexico in this story. That's why I

110
00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,080
Speaker 2: wanted to do it. Is I feel like, uh and sorry,

111
00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,080
Speaker 2: it's latrill the trill.

112
00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:13,080
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter.

113
00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,040
Speaker 4: I think it's fine. Yeah, the trill.

114
00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:16,800
Speaker 3: It's French Canadian fake.

115
00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,880
Speaker 1: It's a fake drug. The pronunciation can also be fake.

116
00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:21,440
Speaker 4: La trill.

117
00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,400
Speaker 2: It's this this drug that like, yeah, it went super

118
00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,839
Speaker 2: viral and it's one of these we haven't had a

119
00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,000
Speaker 2: story that wound up with like and then everyone went

120
00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,560
Speaker 2: to Mexico in a long enough time, and so for you, Miles,

121
00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,880
Speaker 2: I wanted to have another, another story that ends inevitably

122
00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:37,680
Speaker 2: in Tijuana.

123
00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:39,320
Speaker 1: All right, just for you, Miles.

124
00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:41,279
Speaker 3: I love that, Thank you so much.

125
00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,320
Speaker 2: So basically, what we're talking about here is the idea,

126
00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,520
Speaker 2: the origins of the idea, and a political movement based

127
00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,000
Speaker 2: around the idea that medical patients have a right to

128
00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,880
Speaker 2: experiment on themselves with whatever treatments they want. Now, this

129
00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,560
Speaker 2: is not a real right. What it actually is is

130
00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,520
Speaker 2: a way to cover the people who want to sell

131
00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:09,520
Speaker 2: fake cures and treatments by getting the people they're poisoning

132
00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:11,360
Speaker 2: to become activists for them.

133
00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,800
Speaker 4: Right, And the idea that.

134
00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,240
Speaker 2: Like, if I feel like a doctor, I should be

135
00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,640
Speaker 2: able to call myself a doctor. That's all wrapped up

136
00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,840
Speaker 2: in this, And I do agree with that part of it, right, Yeah, absolutely,

137
00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,800
Speaker 2: I mean that's I do that every day. It should

138
00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,200
Speaker 2: be like appointing a Discordian pope. I should be able

139
00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,560
Speaker 2: to just declare people doctors and then they have the

140
00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,640
Speaker 2: right to walk onto like you know, scenes of accidents

141
00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:35,320
Speaker 2: and be like I'm taking over here, you know, just

142
00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:36,160
Speaker 2: out of the way.

143
00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,200
Speaker 3: Why not surgeon.

144
00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:42,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know about that, but okay, I think

145
00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:43,880
Speaker 4: we're all in agreement. That's a good idea.

146
00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,840
Speaker 3: I've seen Robert. I've seen Robert practice medicine and he

147
00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,599
Speaker 3: was very professional. His bedside manner was fantastic.

148
00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:50,839
Speaker 4: It was fantastic.

149
00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,120
Speaker 3: Thank you, Miles said you a couple of times.

150
00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,680
Speaker 2: And like a good number of those people survived, you know,

151
00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:58,960
Speaker 2: of the double digit percentage?

152
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,560
Speaker 4: Sure how high that person.

153
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,160
Speaker 3: It came in for things like broken fingers and springs,

154
00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:06,560
Speaker 3: Marius injuries, serious injuries.

155
00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:07,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

156
00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:10,600
Speaker 2: So Latrill is the brand name that this fake medicine

157
00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,440
Speaker 2: will later be marketed under. But like most bogus stories

158
00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,120
Speaker 2: of cancer cures, this one starts with a real chemical

159
00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:20,240
Speaker 2: discovered by real scientists trying to do real work. In

160
00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:25,480
Speaker 2: eighteen thirty two, French scientists isolated the chemical called amygdalin,

161
00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:27,960
Speaker 2: kind of spelled like you're amygdala, but with a lin

162
00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,080
Speaker 2: on the inil there for the very first time, and

163
00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,440
Speaker 2: amygdalen is a naturally occurring compound that you find in

164
00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,400
Speaker 2: the seeds of many plants that we eat, including apples, peaches, cherries,

165
00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:40,880
Speaker 2: and of course the humble apricot.

166
00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:42,280
Speaker 4: Are you an apricot man?

167
00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,800
Speaker 3: Oh? Ever, since I saw call me by your name,

168
00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,160
Speaker 3: absolutely that got you on the apricot train, Huh. I

169
00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,800
Speaker 3: was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

170
00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,920
Speaker 2: You do not actually want to be apricot pilled miles

171
00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:56,680
Speaker 2: because it can poison you to death.

172
00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:03,320
Speaker 4: No, So, when I was a kid, I read this file.

173
00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,000
Speaker 1: Files the soul of his body.

174
00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,920
Speaker 3: I'm worried. I'm gonna be a little boy. What does

175
00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,440
Speaker 3: it mean, like, don't ingest the pit?

176
00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,400
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I mean it's hard. You would.

177
00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,520
Speaker 2: You have to work to eat an apricot pit because

178
00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,720
Speaker 2: they're not small, and you have to like break them

179
00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:21,800
Speaker 2: up and stuff like you have to really want to

180
00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:22,560
Speaker 2: get that fucker.

181
00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,240
Speaker 4: You shouldn't. And I'm gonna tell you why. So shit,

182
00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:27,600
Speaker 4: all right, When I was.

183
00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,280
Speaker 2: A little kid, I read like a children's detective book.

184
00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:32,040
Speaker 2: I think I must couldn't have been older than eleven

185
00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,120
Speaker 2: or twelve or like. The central mystery was this whole

186
00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:37,760
Speaker 2: class gets horribly poisoned with cyanide, and like no one

187
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,200
Speaker 2: can figure out why. And the answer is that the

188
00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,400
Speaker 2: school was making its own apple sauce and they left

189
00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,200
Speaker 2: the seeds in and a bunch of seeds got like

190
00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,480
Speaker 2: concentrated in a chunk of the batch, and the kids

191
00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:51,840
Speaker 2: who ate from that got sick. Because cyanide exists inside

192
00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,480
Speaker 2: apple seeds, or amygdalant exists inside apple seeds, it's not

193
00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:57,719
Speaker 2: quite true that there's just straight up cyanide in there,

194
00:08:57,720 --> 00:08:59,719
Speaker 2: but that that is the case with a bunch of

195
00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,040
Speaker 2: different fruit seeds, that they have a compound amygdalen that

196
00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:07,800
Speaker 2: can become cyanide because when you expose amygdalen to different enzymes,

197
00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,400
Speaker 2: those enzymes will break down this other thing in amygdalen

198
00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:16,400
Speaker 2: into hydrogen cyanide, right, as well as several other compounds. So, okay,

199
00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,280
Speaker 2: it's not that there's straight up cyanide in there, but

200
00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,880
Speaker 2: there's an enzyme that's in your body that it can

201
00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:26,040
Speaker 2: It doesn't necessarily, but it can potentially turn it into

202
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:27,439
Speaker 2: it into cyanide.

203
00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,920
Speaker 3: Oh oh, you're okay, So you're setting the stage.

204
00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,439
Speaker 2: All I'm setting the stage here, I'm setting the stage.

205
00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:33,920
Speaker 2: I only that book I read as a kid was

206
00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:35,880
Speaker 2: entirely accurate, but it did it for me that this

207
00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,000
Speaker 2: was in apple seeds.

208
00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:39,360
Speaker 3: Seeds.

209
00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:41,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was the fucking ardy I don't think so.

210
00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,120
Speaker 2: Back in the early days of cancer treatment, and again,

211
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,000
Speaker 2: amygdalen is discovered in the eighteen thirties by French guys

212
00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,199
Speaker 2: not trying to do cancer drugs. But the eighteen thirties

213
00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,600
Speaker 2: is we're kind of starting in the mid eighteen hundreds

214
00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,600
Speaker 2: to understand cancers a thing in a way that approaches

215
00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,679
Speaker 2: a modern understanding. This is a slow process, and we're

216
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,240
Speaker 2: starting to experiment, particularly in the late eighteen hundreds, with

217
00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,199
Speaker 2: some like proto types of what will become some actual

218
00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,280
Speaker 2: cancer treatments. And one of the things that we understand

219
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:14,920
Speaker 2: from a pretty early point and where this is primarily

220
00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:16,880
Speaker 2: when we're thinking of cancer as just a couple of

221
00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,920
Speaker 2: different cancers that you create like visible bumps and tumors

222
00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,319
Speaker 2: and stuff, right, you know, some millanomas and stuff. You

223
00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:24,920
Speaker 2: can see it as opposed to a lot of the

224
00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,600
Speaker 2: cancers that are harder to diagnose. And one of the

225
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:29,760
Speaker 2: first things we do that does kind of work in

226
00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,400
Speaker 2: some ways is you burn it, right, like you get

227
00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,880
Speaker 2: rid of that that fucking thing. You do something to

228
00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,680
Speaker 2: burn away that tumor cut it away, cauterize the edges.

229
00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:40,640
Speaker 3: Wait, that was early cancer treatment.

230
00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:42,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and that can work, like if you catch

231
00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,200
Speaker 2: like a skin cancer early and you cut that fucker out,

232
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,239
Speaker 2: oh like something topical, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, because they're

233
00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:50,760
Speaker 2: not like looking inside people in the mid eighteen just

234
00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,480
Speaker 2: being like, ah, he's got like this weird colon cancer

235
00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:55,959
Speaker 2: or something like that as much. That's a lot harder

236
00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,120
Speaker 2: to do. But the cancers that people are finding early,

237
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,040
Speaker 2: they're like, well, some times you can cut it off

238
00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,640
Speaker 2: or burn it off or whatnot. They're using different compounds

239
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,400
Speaker 2: and sometimes that helps, right.

240
00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,080
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you for saying, right, as if I have

241
00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:14,440
Speaker 3: any kind of like chemistry or medical background, right, and yeah,

242
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,040
Speaker 3: exactly due, they can break that down to the cyanide

243
00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:17,480
Speaker 3: for sure.

244
00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:19,760
Speaker 2: First you got to think about it, like the first

245
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,520
Speaker 2: cancers people are aware of is like, okay, well Craig's

246
00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,160
Speaker 2: sick and he's got this big thing on his face

247
00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:25,760
Speaker 2: or whatever.

248
00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:27,680
Speaker 4: What do we try cutting that fucker off?

249
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:28,040
Speaker 3: Yeah?

250
00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:29,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, is that going to help?

251
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:29,760
Speaker 3: You know?

252
00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,839
Speaker 2: And so they're also they're using different kinds of certain

253
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,040
Speaker 2: different kinds of chemicals as well to like burn it away.

254
00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:40,640
Speaker 2: And there's a thought that like, well, cyanide kills stuff

255
00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,640
Speaker 2: in the human body, It like kills cells, maybe it

256
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,560
Speaker 2: could kill cancer cells. Unfortunately, when German scientists, and of

257
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,680
Speaker 2: course it was German scientists who are first like, let's

258
00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:51,960
Speaker 2: let's give people cyanide to try to fix this.

259
00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:53,640
Speaker 3: But who will we give it to.

260
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:57,920
Speaker 4: Normal members of society?

261
00:11:58,120 --> 00:11:58,320
Speaker 2: Yes?

262
00:11:58,520 --> 00:11:59,920
Speaker 3: Yes, ethically yes.

263
00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,000
Speaker 2: So they they try this in the early eighteen nineties,

264
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,240
Speaker 2: and they it's very immediately clear, like, oh, this is

265
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,040
Speaker 2: ineffective and dangerous. Right, maybe there could be some way

266
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:10,960
Speaker 2: to do this, but it's kind of impossible to stop

267
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,240
Speaker 2: the to stop the cyanide from killing everything else.

268
00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,400
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, pretty effective like that.

269
00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's this initial thought that like maybe amygdalen could

270
00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,080
Speaker 2: be a cancer treatment that gets dropped because it doesn't work.

271
00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,160
Speaker 2: And so far no one's a bastard here, right, you're

272
00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,480
Speaker 2: talking about the early day in the eighteen nineties. If

273
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,160
Speaker 2: you're like, fuck, why not, let's give it a shot,

274
00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,600
Speaker 2: you know, Yeah, you're throwing everything at the cancer while

275
00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:31,160
Speaker 2: you can.

276
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,800
Speaker 3: Get We just spent out about germ theory. Fuss, right,

277
00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:37,760
Speaker 3: we don't know much still, early doors man, let's figure

278
00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:38,400
Speaker 3: it out.

279
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:43,520
Speaker 2: All right, fuck it, let's try so enter Ernst T. Crebs,

280
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,720
Speaker 2: this is the Creb cycle. Yeah, sure, why not? Let's

281
00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,200
Speaker 2: credit him for that. Absolutely not the Creb cycle is

282
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,520
Speaker 2: correct and nothing Earnst Tea. Crebs Senior ever said was right.

283
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,360
Speaker 2: So the Creb cycle is not his baby, Oh, Ernst T.

284
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,040
Speaker 2: Crebs Senior, though he is almost unique among our medical grifters,

285
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,920
Speaker 2: and that he was an actual MD. Now that said,

286
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,200
Speaker 2: he is born in the late eighteen hundreds, so he

287
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,680
Speaker 2: gets his MD at a period of time in which

288
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,120
Speaker 2: at least half of people who get a real MD

289
00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,600
Speaker 2: are not in any way doctors, right, because there's not

290
00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,720
Speaker 2: as much standardization. You're talking to late eighteen hundreds half

291
00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,840
Speaker 2: people who are doctors, like, yes, I am trying to

292
00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:24,080
Speaker 2: use actual science.

293
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:25,320
Speaker 4: I am attempting to.

294
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:27,560
Speaker 2: Obviously there's still a lot that they're getting wrong because

295
00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,840
Speaker 2: it's the early nineteen hundreds, but they are trying to

296
00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,400
Speaker 2: do use science in a way that we we would

297
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,440
Speaker 2: understand to improve people's health care outcomes. And the other

298
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,040
Speaker 2: half are I'm pouring shit and a jug and selling

299
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:39,680
Speaker 2: it as a cure.

300
00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,040
Speaker 3: All right. You know, Wait, where'd you go to? Where

301
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:43,320
Speaker 3: did you go to medical school?

302
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:43,520
Speaker 2: Oh?

303
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:43,800
Speaker 3: Up?

304
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,680
Speaker 4: Ear, yeah, yeah I got it. I got an MD.

305
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,880
Speaker 4: Now is there anyone saying, is there anyone.

306
00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,840
Speaker 2: Like making sure every MD knows a goddamn thing about medicine?

307
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:55,560
Speaker 4: Not really?

308
00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,160
Speaker 3: No yet, Hey you got confidence? I like that, bro,

309
00:13:58,400 --> 00:13:59,080
Speaker 3: you're a doctor.

310
00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,319
Speaker 2: Now you got confidence? A piece of paper and a stethoscope?

311
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,440
Speaker 2: All right, welcome in, cut into my kids.

312
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:06,120
Speaker 3: Shit.

313
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:10,040
Speaker 2: So Creb Senior is on the quack side of guys

314
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,480
Speaker 2: with a real MD, but he is an actual MD.

315
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,040
Speaker 2: He is Doctor Krebs Senior. His first job in his

316
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,240
Speaker 2: initial medical training was as a pharmacist. Uh, and then

317
00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,920
Speaker 2: he gets his MD in nineteen o three. He had

318
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,280
Speaker 2: been practicing for a decade and a half when the

319
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,920
Speaker 2: influenza pandemic started to hit and millions of people around

320
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,120
Speaker 2: the world began dying at a terrific pace, the influenza.

321
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,400
Speaker 2: You have this horrible war, World War One, and then

322
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,280
Speaker 2: influenza sweeps and just killed even more people than the

323
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:43,280
Speaker 2: war had. Like it's just horrible, way a terrific pace. Yeah, oh, terrific,

324
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,360
Speaker 2: Like wow, that's fucking terrible.

325
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,440
Speaker 3: Yeah that is it derived from terrifying?

326
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:49,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, probably why not?

327
00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,560
Speaker 3: Wow, don't know, I'm just I was thinking, like terrific.

328
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,320
Speaker 2: W it's just like a great pace, but like great

329
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:57,760
Speaker 2: as a quantity, right, I said, Yeah.

330
00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,520
Speaker 3: I don't know anything about anything, like not even chemistry

331
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,080
Speaker 3: or words. So I can protology to your listeners.

332
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,800
Speaker 2: It's definitely correct to use it as like, wow, it

333
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,960
Speaker 2: is like just tearing through the human populace.

334
00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I'm here for you. I'm just here for

335
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:10,240
Speaker 3: the lesson, thank.

336
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,040
Speaker 2: You, And Ernst Krebs Senior, is you know, you have

337
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,200
Speaker 2: to have some sympathy at this point because anyone who

338
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,080
Speaker 2: is an experienced doctor when the influenza pandemic hits, is

339
00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,560
Speaker 2: going to be confronting some trauma, right, Like you are

340
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,680
Speaker 2: going to be looking at fucking corpse piles and mass

341
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,920
Speaker 2: graves and the constant danger that you yourself get this

342
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,080
Speaker 2: death plague that's sweeping through And like many people who

343
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,040
Speaker 2: had to confront the epidemic head on, he wound up

344
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,320
Speaker 2: because unfortunately and this he gets into alternate medicine to

345
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,440
Speaker 2: try to find cures for it, right, he starts looking

346
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,240
Speaker 2: at stuff that is not scientifically based medicine. And you

347
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,720
Speaker 2: do have to be more sympathetic of a guy at

348
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:48,960
Speaker 2: this point in that position in the medical field, because

349
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:53,320
Speaker 2: influenza is just like, oh my god, for what, for

350
00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:55,840
Speaker 2: all the progress we've made in the last couple of decades,

351
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,520
Speaker 2: nothing is stopping this, right, Like we're not even able

352
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,200
Speaker 2: to other than just having people stay inside where we

353
00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:03,080
Speaker 2: can't slow this fucking thing down. We don't know how

354
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,600
Speaker 2: to make vaccines or whatever yet, like we could barely

355
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:07,160
Speaker 2: do palliative care.

356
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:08,080
Speaker 4: So it's not.

357
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,920
Speaker 2: You're not a bastard at this level of scientific knowledge

358
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,200
Speaker 2: for being like I'm gonna go look for something else

359
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:17,080
Speaker 2: because it's just a fucking emergency, right, So this is

360
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,600
Speaker 2: not like an oppositional defiant thing. Right, you can at

361
00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,640
Speaker 2: least initially look at this as like influence is clearly

362
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:27,600
Speaker 2: overwhelmed medical science. So I need to look for something new, anything, Yeah.

363
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:27,840
Speaker 4: And he looks.

364
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,320
Speaker 2: He doesn't look in an unreasonable place. He starts looking

365
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:34,040
Speaker 2: inside the annals of Indigenous American medicine, right of different

366
00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,760
Speaker 2: like plant based medicines that people have been using in

367
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,760
Speaker 2: the Americas since time immemorial, which is not a bad place.

368
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,640
Speaker 2: That there's a lot of real medicines that are found

369
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,320
Speaker 2: one way or the other through doing that, And he

370
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:48,080
Speaker 2: finds through his research that the Washo tribe, who hail

371
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,560
Speaker 2: from around the Lake Tahoe region head for a long

372
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,240
Speaker 2: time utilized a species of parsley known today as fern

373
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,640
Speaker 2: leaf desert parsley or fern leaf biscuit root, which is

374
00:16:58,640 --> 00:16:59,560
Speaker 2: also used as a food.

375
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:00,320
Speaker 4: It's one of the those.

376
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,680
Speaker 2: Plants that's got a hundred different uses, but you can

377
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,479
Speaker 2: in fact make food out of it, and they used it.

378
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:08,119
Speaker 2: I think it mainly is like a tea as a

379
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:10,919
Speaker 2: treatment for colds and flus. Now they used it for

380
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,560
Speaker 2: other things. These plants they would make if people had injuries,

381
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,000
Speaker 2: you would make like a poultice, which is like basically

382
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,399
Speaker 2: mashed up plant matter that you make into like a

383
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:19,840
Speaker 2: plaster basically to put.

384
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:20,359
Speaker 4: Over a wound.

385
00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,440
Speaker 2: And fern leaf can help with that. The plant does

386
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,720
Speaker 2: have anti viral and antibiotic properties. If you are living

387
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,240
Speaker 2: just on the earth and you know it's this period

388
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,639
Speaker 2: of time, this is one of your better methods of

389
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,560
Speaker 2: like dealing with an injury in the areas where this

390
00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,480
Speaker 2: plant is there, right, Like, this is not bogus. There's

391
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,840
Speaker 2: actual medical uses here right right right. And so he hears, hey,

392
00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:44,800
Speaker 2: the Was Show use this stuff when they've got like

393
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,520
Speaker 2: a flu. And he also hears and none of them

394
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,040
Speaker 2: are die because he's living in Nevada, right and he's

395
00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,439
Speaker 2: working in around communities, and he's heard that, like, hey,

396
00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:55,880
Speaker 2: none of the Was Show have died of influenza. Maybe

397
00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,440
Speaker 2: this plant that they're using is like a cure all

398
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,920
Speaker 2: for this horrible flu, right, So let's look into it. Now,

399
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,920
Speaker 2: here's the thing. Number one the Was Show. I don't

400
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,639
Speaker 2: know if none of the was Show died as a

401
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,560
Speaker 2: result of the influenza pandemic, the only source for that

402
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,440
Speaker 2: seems to be him and articles about him.

403
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:17,840
Speaker 4: Right.

404
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,640
Speaker 2: I did find one article on the University of Nevada's

405
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,720
Speaker 2: website about Krebs and about this medica by a second

406
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:28,040
Speaker 2: year student lamenting that, oh my god, they could have

407
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,680
Speaker 2: solved the pandemic if they just you know, more people

408
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,119
Speaker 2: had trusted Krebs about this herb because it protected the

409
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,200
Speaker 2: wash Show. However, his only source is doctor Krebs, right, right,

410
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,080
Speaker 2: like this paper's only source. I haven't found any objective

411
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,080
Speaker 2: evidence that, like number one, no members of the tribe

412
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:48,280
Speaker 2: died of influenza. Sure, and you know there's other explanations,

413
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,760
Speaker 2: because it's possible that no was Sho died from this.

414
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,240
Speaker 3: It sounds like he already sounds like a guest on Rogan,

415
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,360
Speaker 3: who's right, you know that influenza dude, you know who

416
00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:02,080
Speaker 3: didn't get seen the Washo And there are yeah.

417
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,359
Speaker 2: If that it was true, and that's a big if.

418
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,520
Speaker 2: There are reasons other than this fern leaf for it,

419
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,159
Speaker 2: which is that Nevada was the least populous state in

420
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,399
Speaker 2: the Union during the pandemic. Right, an article by a

421
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,920
Speaker 2: local historian in Carson. Now that I found and noted

422
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 2: that other tribes in the area abided by strict quarantine conditions,

423
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,840
Speaker 2: which it's possible to what was Show did too, And maybe

424
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,280
Speaker 2: that's why none of them died, is because from the jump,

425
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,800
Speaker 2: like other tribes in the area, they were like, Okay,

426
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 2: well we need to like isolate, right.

427
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:29,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

428
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 2: And also it just wasn't that about four thousand people

429
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,760
Speaker 2: total died in Nevada of influenza, and even in Las Vegas,

430
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,400
Speaker 2: the largest city, only twenty people are known to have died.

431
00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,160
Speaker 2: So it's just not that weird that people who are

432
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:43,800
Speaker 2: maybe living out in the sticks and avoiding people during

433
00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:48,119
Speaker 2: the pandemic, did you die? There's explanations besides this leaf.

434
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,120
Speaker 3: Right, No, man, So I'm selling this biscuity paste.

435
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:53,959
Speaker 2: Man, it's gotta be it. That's gotta be it. And

436
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 2: that's what he's like.

437
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:55,280
Speaker 4: He just here.

438
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,080
Speaker 2: He either makes up that fact, because again he could

439
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,800
Speaker 2: just be lying about the was Show, but he either

440
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:02,760
Speaker 2: makes it up or he hears it and he just

441
00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:05,560
Speaker 2: decides it's this thing and I'm going to immediately rather

442
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,480
Speaker 2: than I'm not at all interested in the scientific process.

443
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:10,920
Speaker 2: Maybe at this time he's justifying it by like there's

444
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,280
Speaker 2: not enough time. But he immediately sets into marketing this

445
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 2: as a cure. He cooks the plant down into a

446
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 2: syrup which he pairs up with the He finds a

447
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 2: company called the Balsamea Corporation, and he gets them to

448
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:27,720
Speaker 2: manufacture a syrup called Leptinol. Now this is marketed as

449
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 2: like a miracle cough syrup that will treat your influenza,

450
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:32,280
Speaker 2: but also your asthma or your.

451
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,160
Speaker 4: Tuberculosis, all of them.

452
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,520
Speaker 2: He gets all of them again, like this is a

453
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 2: plant that can be useful on like open wounds and

454
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,439
Speaker 2: stuff like that. I'm not saying maybe it has some

455
00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:44,239
Speaker 2: sort of palliative help as a tea as well, But

456
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,719
Speaker 2: if that case is like echanatia, it's not like a

457
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 2: miracle cure. It's a thing that can alleviate symptoms and

458
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,399
Speaker 2: maybe you know, be useful for helping on like a

459
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 2: wound to stop it from getting infected. That doesn't mean

460
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,200
Speaker 2: if you eat it it's gonna kill influenza.

461
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,280
Speaker 3: I love the confidence right. Also, way too much dip

462
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:02,679
Speaker 3: on your chip as a scammer, Like yeah, you should

463
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:03,880
Speaker 3: have just stuck with one.

464
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 4: Thing and one thing at a time.

465
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 3: Hey, you know all those bloody hankies that you'd be

466
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 3: coughing into because you've got you got the berculosis.

467
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 4: You want to keep your hankies white. Take this fucking leptin.

468
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:13,880
Speaker 4: All shit.

469
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:16,720
Speaker 3: I could already see the fucking the scam display. You're like, sir,

470
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,640
Speaker 3: let me see your handkerchief. Oh yes, oh this man

471
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 3: has tuberculosis. Now drink some of this and cough into

472
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 3: this clean napkin. Yeah, nothing exactly, Now, I should say.

473
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:28,479
Speaker 2: The other reason why this is definitely bullshit is that

474
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,080
Speaker 2: even if none of the was show died, he talks

475
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 2: about this stuff like this fern leaf like only the

476
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,919
Speaker 2: wish it's it's a was show career, and like this

477
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,199
Speaker 2: this plant grows all over like the America's particularly in

478
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 2: like the Southwest around like the Vada, Colorado and stuff

479
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 2: like that. A lot of tribes use it, including tribes

480
00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 2: that did lose people to the pandemic, right because yeah.

481
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,040
Speaker 3: Focus on the Wash Show. Okay, who knows what they

482
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 3: were getting into over there.

483
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, this belief that like just because it's like natural

484
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 2: indigenous medicine, it's like all powerful is like man medicine

485
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,880
Speaker 2: is pretty advanced now, but like I can't walk into

486
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 2: a grocery store and buy a cure to every disease, right, Yeah,

487
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 2: like this, the fact that you have some useful medicines

488
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,360
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that they're going to cure things.

489
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:16,320
Speaker 3: I know, just like the exoticism of like indigenous Americans

490
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 3: to help kind of fuel it is just also so

491
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,120
Speaker 3: fucking despicable to be like, yeah, you know the mystical

492
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 3: the Native American plant, you should drink it.

493
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, first you do a genocide that is in large

494
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 2: part fueled by your use of disease to kill people,

495
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 2: and then are like they have I'm going to market

496
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:36,200
Speaker 2: their cures to get rich.

497
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, so American.

498
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 2: So anyway, speaking of bad things, ad add things, we're back.

499
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 2: I should also know that when I did this research,

500
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,919
Speaker 2: I noted that sadly, the COVID pandemic did kill a

501
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 2: number of members of the Washo tribe. If this herb

502
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 2: really was like the perfect in all, and they are

503
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 2: not making the claim that this herb cures everything. Fucking

504
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 2: doctor Krebs's that's who I'm busting here, doctor in the show.

505
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 2: I'm just saying there's a lot of evidence that this

506
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 2: is nonsense. Medicine, right, I just need to be clear

507
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,480
Speaker 2: about that and that it's his not it's his nonsense, right, Yeah,

508
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 2: they're using it in ways where it actually demonstrably does work.

509
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,159
Speaker 3: If I may defend my friend Krebs, who I used

510
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 3: to drink with at a bar, I mean like he

511
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 3: saw it with his own eyes. Man, he saw with

512
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 3: his own eyes.

513
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. A lot of people don't know this, but Miles

514
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 2: is one hundred and nineteen years young.

515
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:36,719
Speaker 3: Thank you, yeah, thank ye. Yeah.

516
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 2: Just now, it's this is why you take hgh everybody.

517
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 3: Exactly. My head, though, is a fucking my skull is

518
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 3: so big now.

519
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,199
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's huge. It's twice the size it was.

520
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 3: I were a size ten and a half. Hat.

521
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 2: We put that filter on you that they put on

522
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 2: John Hamm so that your head fits inside the frame.

523
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah no, it's like Lord of the Rings style,

524
00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 2: like shooting tricks here exactly.

525
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:02,199
Speaker 3: I'm using this snapchat filter that may gives you a

526
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 3: tiny head to make my head look normal, right.

527
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 4: Now, that's right, that's right.

528
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 2: So at any rate, doctor Kreb's senior, and I'm going

529
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 2: to be specifying senior because he's his doctor Crebs junior

530
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 2: is also a major character in this. But Creb's senior

531
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 2: decides this is the way to save the world from

532
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 2: the deadliest plague of the modern era, and he starts

533
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 2: selling syrup leptinol, advertising it as this, you know, indigenous

534
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,199
Speaker 2: cure for influenza, and it sells really well, thousands and

535
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 2: thousands of terrified people by it, and it sells so

536
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,719
Speaker 2: well that he alters the recipe to put out a

537
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 2: new addition of the product called syrup Balsamia, which is

538
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 2: basically the original recipe with rhubarb added for taste, which

539
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,360
Speaker 2: does sound better. I could go for some. So it's

540
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 2: new coke. Yeah, it's new coke. It's new coke, but

541
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 2: better than new coke. It's crystal pepsi, yeah, without it rhubarb.

542
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 2: Of course, a lot of people don't know this. Crystal

543
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 2: pepsi does cure influenza. Oh yeah, that's why they took

544
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 2: it away from us, you know, for big Pharma. I

545
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 2: had an acl and and I just soaked my knee

546
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 2: in crystal pepsi.

547
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it cured it. It cured it.

548
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,479
Speaker 2: I only bathe in crystal pepsi. And that it is

549
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 2: running me out of house and home.

550
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 3: Ruinously expensive finding that shit on eBay, Man, Yeah, half

551
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 3: of it's turned slightly yellow. Man, you can find that shit.

552
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 4: Does not look good anymore. The cans are buljay.

553
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 3: It needs to have been refrigerated since ninety one.

554
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 2: So a very good article on Latrill in quack Watch

555
00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 2: claims that this new syrup with rhubarb quote bore labeling

556
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 2: which recounted how leptotemia had protected the wash shows and

557
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,439
Speaker 2: which promised users miraculous results. It strikes at the cause

558
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 2: the circular red quickly checking germ action. Now, his marketing

559
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:45,920
Speaker 2: is good, but the product is utterly bogus, in part

560
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 2: because there's no way to even verify what's actually in

561
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 2: these syrups. Right, is there even any of this plant

562
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 2: in there? You know, no, nobody knows. You have no

563
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 2: way of knowing.

564
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 4: With doctor Krebs's selling, there's no way to know.

565
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 2: Oh and a lot of medicines, the medicines these guys

566
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 2: will be involved in later, they'll be like, these are

567
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 2: not standardized, Like we're like when the FDA tries to

568
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,679
Speaker 2: test some of the other scheff they'll be like, we

569
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 2: found like four different formulations in here, like which one

570
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 2: is right?

571
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 4: And he's like, I don't.

572
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 3: Know which one worked for you. Yeah, that one.

573
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 2: So in short order, because you know, we do have

574
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 2: a basic understanding of science, there's a lot of data

575
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 2: that people who take this medicine are still fucking dying,

576
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 2: which are elicits outrage from other doctors. Quack Watch notes

577
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 2: that doctor kreb Senior resigned from medical societies and never rejoined,

578
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 2: so doctors unfairly are like, hey, it seems like everyone's

579
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 2: dying who takes this medicine. Why are you still selling

580
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,719
Speaker 2: it as a cure all? And he says, well, fuck you,

581
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 2: is that's why?

582
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, so you know what, I'm fuck you. I'm

583
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 3: out of here, guys.

584
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, fuck I don't even need this, right, I don't

585
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 2: even need to be here. Yeah you guys, you guys,

586
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 2: you've never believed in my ability to sell syrup secure

587
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 2: all for everything, just.

588
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 3: Like everybody else in my life.

589
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:09,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, so so far, you know, he's he's gotten disgraced,

590
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: but it's a slap on the wrist, right, This is

591
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 2: not a serious punishment. He just kind of had to

592
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 2: leave because everyone was making fun of him. But the

593
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 2: government very quickly got interested in what he was doing.

594
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 2: The Pure Food and Drugs Act had passed in nineteen

595
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: oh six, and this is you know, part of why.

596
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 2: As we've talked about in our milk episodes, it used

597
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 2: to be when you bought milk for your baby, if

598
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: you weren't rich, it was just like a bile of

599
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 2: worms inside some liquid. Right, Like things used to be

600
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: bad and will be again very soon.

601
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 3: You had to get pulp free milk.

602
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

603
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 2: The Pure Food and Drugs Acted passed in nineteen oh six,

604
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: and so now the Department of Agriculture had this group

605
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 2: called the Bureau of Chemistry whose job was to like

606
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 2: look at the things people were selling and say, like,

607
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 2: this is that this is what you're saying it is,

608
00:27:58,359 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 2: or this is not what you're saying.

609
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 3: Oh right, shit, the Receipt Group, the Receipt Lab.

610
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 2: Okay, these are the guys who are They're seizing medicine

611
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 2: made by Krebs's company in several states and testing it,

612
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 2: and they're like, well, this is different everywhere. And also

613
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 2: there's no evidence that this ever works. You haven't presented

614
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 2: any evidence that this has helped a single sick person.

615
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 2: And it's interesting to be that, like the two of

616
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 2: the states where they're first seizing this stuff are Illinois

617
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 2: and Oregon. Oregon always on brand when it comes to

618
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,120
Speaker 2: fake medicine stuff. We've been loving this shit from the beginning.

619
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 2: So if doctor Krebs had had evidence that this stuff

620
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 2: actually worked, and he claimed to have tons of different

621
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,960
Speaker 2: case studies of its saving people's lives, he should have

622
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 2: been able to show up in court and argue to

623
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 2: have his stuff returned. But he didn't, and the seized

624
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 2: medicine was always destroyed because he has no data, which

625
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 2: is going to be a recurring thing with doctor Krebs Senior.

626
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: He however, kept right on selling his placebo syrup up

627
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 2: through the end of the nineteen fifties, and he did

628
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 2: this without getting seriously punished. Creb's even pivoted after the

629
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 2: discovery of antibiotics and the first medical craze. They ignited

630
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: and started claiming that his syrup was the first antibiotic. Like, no,

631
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: I figured it out first. This is the first antibiotic.

632
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 2: That's how it worked the whole time, right. I was

633
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 2: just trying to tell you guys, you didn't get it

634
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 2: until that fucker with his bread, you know, But he didn't.

635
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 4: He wasn't first.

636
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 2: It was me, And this is not really true, Crebs

637
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 2: marketed his syrups as cures for viruses as well, which

638
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 2: are not stopped by antibiotics. Right, And this thing does

639
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 2: have like topically, it's got some of those characteristics, but

640
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 2: that's not the same as it like being something you

641
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 2: can just take and have it work as an antibiotic,

642
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 2: you know, just like how you can sterilize a wound

643
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: with isoproble alcohol, but you shouldn't, like if you have

644
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 2: an internal infection, you shouldn't just drink isoproble alcohol that

645
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 2: I'll make you.

646
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 4: That'll that'll be bad for you.

647
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's making everything clean.

648
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 4: If good outside must be good inside.

649
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 3: But it's only gonna do the parts that I'm digesting.

650
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 3: We'll wait for the other. God, damn it all right,

651
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 3: I guess I could see the logic there.

652
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 2: The main thing that kept his Syrup of Balsama business

653
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 2: going for so long was that, as an actual MD,

654
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: Crebs did know enough of the law surrounding medications to

655
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 2: like take advantage of it. And he knew that he

656
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 2: discovered a loophole, which was that unproven treatments could be

657
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 2: sold and distributed if they were marketed as quote investigational

658
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 2: prescription drugs. So this is how he sold his syrup

659
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 2: right in the later days, and I wish that loophole

660
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 2: was still a round.

661
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 4: Man, Oh my god, you know what.

662
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 2: I feel like the Jerry's still out on morphine. Let

663
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 2: me investigate some of that shit. I'm gonna investigate some

664
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: delatted while I'm you'll got some lodinum.

665
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, he got some I need I feel they need

666
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:39,720
Speaker 4: to investigate.

667
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, combine the two dilodinum.

668
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 2: Hey, you know there's a there's a concert this weekend.

669
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 2: Can my friends and I investigate some of that Molly.

670
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

671
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 2: So what we see with this guy is a kind

672
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: of hybrid Andrew Wakefield and RFK Junior, right where there's

673
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: there is a legitimate medical background, but he seems to

674
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 2: have basically early on in counter that some illnesses we

675
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 2: just couldn't care and say, like fuck it, I'll just

676
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 2: sell lies instead. And while his syrups still sold till

677
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,719
Speaker 2: the end of the nineteen fifties, he was aware by

678
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 2: the forties that, like, you know, this isn't going to

679
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 2: last forever. I need to come up with another fake

680
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 2: medicine if I'm going to stay profitable, Right, Like I

681
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: got to pivot and per quack watch. In the late

682
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 2: nineteen forties is when we first have records of doctor

683
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 2: Krebs Senior started to explore the use of new compounds

684
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 2: meant to treat a disease that our understanding had been

685
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 2: was building on and that was even deadlier and more

686
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 2: frightening than influenza. And I'm talking, of course about cancer.

687
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 2: So right by the time we're in the forties, we

688
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 2: have a much better understanding that like, cancer is a

689
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 2: bunch of different things, and you know all but there's

690
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 2: certain commonalities and like what's going on. You've got these

691
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 2: this like type of you know, this tumor, You've got

692
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 2: this cancerous flesh that's like growing and growing, and we're

693
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: starting to understand that, we're starting to get some more

694
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 2: effective methods of fighting it, right other than just well

695
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 2: maybe we can show it off outside. And part of

696
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: why cancer becomes more of a focus and more of

697
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 2: like a center of public fears is that the thing

698
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 2: that had been killing more people previously, which was just like,

699
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 2: oh I scraped myself. Oh you know, I got to

700
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 2: call a flu or something. I guess I'm gonna die

701
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 2: or cold or something. I guess I'm going to die now.

702
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 2: You got antibiotics. So a lot of the things that

703
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: had killed people much more easily are very are harder

704
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 2: to kill people with because antibiotics exist, right, and we're

705
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 2: starting to get better at vaccines too, We're starting to

706
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 2: figure some of that. So a lot of these what

707
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 2: had previously been much scarier things than cancers were suddenly

708
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 2: under control, and people are like living longer. But also

709
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: people who would have died from some of these other

710
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 2: things are living long enough to get these horrifying cancers.

711
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,479
Speaker 2: So people really start to focus more on the cancer.

712
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 2: It's just like more a thing, you're likelier to get

713
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: cancer if you're less likely to die of the other shit.

714
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 4: So we start.

715
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 2: Pouring more and more resources into the fight against what

716
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 2: is still a very confusing constellation of illnesses that are

717
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 2: we don't really have a great grip on. And one

718
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 2: of the first major breakthroughs in cancer treatment came as

719
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 2: a partial result of mankind's insatiable hunger to kill each other.

720
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 2: I'm talking about mustard gas. Did you know that mustard

721
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 2: gas was the root of one of the first Like

722
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 2: there's a line from that to like modern chemotherapy. What, Yeah, yeah,

723
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: so you know, mustard gas is this horrible poisonous gas

724
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 2: that we use a lot in World War One, and

725
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 2: then it gets banned in like twenty five under the

726
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 2: Geneva Protocol, which halts research into similar substances for a while.

727
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 2: It doesn't shut it down entirely, but people are like,

728
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 2: it's got a bad rap, you know, because of all

729
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 2: the deaths. And then yeah, yeah, we get World War Two.

730
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 2: Now Hitler Germany has big stockpiles of mustard gas still,

731
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 2: you know, when Hitler's in charge. But Hitler's a gas survivor,

732
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 2: and this was one of his few in a military terms,

733
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 2: he was unwilling to use gas as a weapon of war. Right,

734
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: I'm not obviously he's Hitler. He put gases lots of people,

735
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 2: but he's because of his own experiences. He never really

736
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,479
Speaker 2: embraces the idea of like using this as a way

737
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 2: and there's other reasons. Right, if you start using it,

738
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 2: then everyone's going to start using their shit, and it

739
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 2: probably works out as a net negative. I'm not trying

740
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 2: to give Hitler any credit here, but what does happen

741
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 2: is we don't know that he's not going to use it, right,

742
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 2: and we know that Germany has these stockpiles. So we

743
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 2: continue to have you know, chemical weapons protective gear that

744
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 2: we're issuing some soldiers, and we're continuing to do research.

745
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 2: The US is into like different chemical weapons. If he

746
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 2: uses shit, we need to have something more effective that

747
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 2: we can deploy, right, And one of the things they

748
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 2: do is while they're having scientists look back into mustard gas,

749
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 2: they're like, hey, see if maybe there's any medical use

750
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 2: for some of this stuff, right, Like, maybe maybe there's

751
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 2: some other things we can do with.

752
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 3: Rub some gas on my this like mole house even helps. Yeah.

753
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 2: Shockingly, this turns out to be a good idea. So

754
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 2: there's this team of researchers who are tasked with this

755
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 2: modified you know, modifying must gas to try to create

756
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: something safer and more Mustard gas is too dangerous to

757
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 2: test as like a treat cancer treatment, right, And they

758
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 2: wind up creating something called nitrogen mustard, which actually proves

759
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 2: to be useful in treating lymphoma.

760
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 3: Right.

761
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 2: It's able to kill some of these tumors and stop

762
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 2: them from growing. And so they're like, hey, we actually

763
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 2: might be able to use a derivation of this poison

764
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 2: gas weapon to treat people's cancers. This actually seems like

765
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 2: it's kind of helpful, and weirdly, like the research gets

766
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,359
Speaker 2: a shot on the arm. After in December nineteen forty three,

767
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 2: there's this German air raid in Italy and it hits

768
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 2: a boat that's full of mustard gas, and so like

769
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 2: a shitload of people get gased and it's an accident,

770
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 2: but like a fucking thousand people either get injured or

771
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 2: killed by this gas that gets blown up, and they

772
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:51,919
Speaker 2: do autopsies and a bunch of them, and the autopsies

773
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 2: show that like some of these guys because we can

774
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 2: identify these people had cancer before they were killed by

775
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:03,280
Speaker 2: this poison gas and this accident, and their tumors seem

776
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 2: to have been suppressed.

777
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 4: Right, So they're like, that's at least what they're finding.

778
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 2: I don't know if you know how much of this

779
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 2: is like maybe just they're not doing as good a

780
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 2: work as they would have later, but there starts to

781
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 2: be some evidence that like, yeah, there might be something

782
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 2: in mustard gas that's helpful as like a way to

783
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 2: kill tumors. Right, So, by the time the post war

784
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 2: period starts, derivations of these different like things that started

785
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 2: out as mustard gas are actually seemed to be a

786
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 2: really promising lead on a cancer treatment, right, And this

787
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 2: promising lead, this thing that might be able to save

788
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 2: a lot of people's lives, is based on a terrifying

789
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 2: death chemical. Now, in the post war period, Americans aren't

790
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 2: squeamish about exposing themselves to like weird modern chemical poisons.

791
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 3: Right.

792
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 2: This was not that far from the days of like

793
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: we discover radium and we start drinking it. You know,

794
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 2: there's this idea that like, the more powerful the poison,

795
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 2: the more it must help.

796
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 4: Let's give it to me.

797
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 2: I'll take all the poisons. I'm smoking forty packs the day. Baby,

798
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 2: everything's plastic, fucking yeah. So at first Americans are like,

799
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 2: the scarier and crazier the chemical, like put it in

800
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 2: my body. If I'm saying absolutely, who gives it up?

801
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 3: Right now?

802
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:17,959
Speaker 2: And cancer therapy is in the post war period also

803
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 2: continue to advance by utilizing a bunch of different scary chemicals,

804
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,919
Speaker 2: you know, stuff that's not in this mustard gas line

805
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 2: of descent, but it is like fucked ups in like

806
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 2: methotrek State, right, And eventually I went.

807
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,719
Speaker 3: To college, yeah, right, methotrex State, and.

808
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 4: By hook and crook.

809
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,799
Speaker 2: We figure out chemotherapy right eventually, you know, and chemotherapy

810
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,839
Speaker 2: is also a terrifying poison that can kill cancer, right,

811
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,399
Speaker 2: Like it's it's both something that's like scary and kind

812
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,680
Speaker 2: of and again does a lot of damage to the

813
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 2: rest of the body and can kill cancer. So people

814
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 2: are thinking about cancer cures in this way that it's like, well,

815
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 2: the medicine's got to be almost as bad as the cure.

816
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 2: That's just the way things work.

817
00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 3: You know. It's like, look, dude, it's got to be

818
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 3: scary than cancer.

819
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,680
Speaker 4: Right, the only thing that can beat it.

820
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 3: Kind of go with like a Pokemon logic here, you

821
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 3: know what I mean, and which is not entirely wrong. Yeah,

822
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 3: Like I don't know, it's scarier than cancer. Maybe that

823
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 3: thing up you know.

824
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 4: What else is scarier than cancer? Miles hmmm, A.

825
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,280
Speaker 2: Life spent, A life wasted, i'd say, without the products

826
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 2: and services that support this podcast. You know, Oh I

827
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 2: love these Yeah, and we're back so by this time,

828
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 2: you know, the kind of post war period of the

829
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 2: late forties. Doctor Kreb Senior is an experienced medical grifter,

830
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 2: and he can tell cancer cures are going to be

831
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 2: the next big money maker. Right, there's people are both

832
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 2: people are reading every week about new breakthroughs in cancer treatment,

833
00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 2: and also people are more scared of cancer than they

834
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 2: used to be, so like that's the fucking place to be.

835
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 2: And he also knows people expect a cancer cure to

836
00:38:58,719 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 2: sound metal as fuck.

837
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 3: Right.

838
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 2: The first versions of these, like anti tumb ragents are

839
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 2: literally made from WMDs, right, so you gotta, you gotta,

840
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 2: it's gotta be some powerful shit.

841
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 4: If it's gotta do anything.

842
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's a lot of use in this period.

843
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 2: There's people using different acids to like burn away tumors.

844
00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 2: And he had started in his own writings to theorize

845
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,240
Speaker 2: that cancer proteins might be broken down by an enzyme

846
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 2: that he'd prepared and played around with back in pharmacy school,

847
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,919
Speaker 2: an enzyme made out of apricot kernels. Right, so's he's

848
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 2: thinking about amygdalen. This this stuff that contains a form

849
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 2: of cyanide, and cyanide can burn away at a tumor.

850
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 2: So he starts fucking around with different extracts from these

851
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 2: seeds and he creates something that's like a migdalen in

852
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 2: a couple of other things, a mix of them that

853
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 2: he calls Sarkina's and he tests this on rats to

854
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 2: be like, does this save the rats from cancer? Now,

855
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 2: most credible versions of the story, and we have a

856
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 2: few versions of how he comes up with latrill, but

857
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 2: most versions of this story will say that Sarkinase proved

858
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 2: so toxic and dangerous to the rats that he's like, well,

859
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 2: back to the board, killed all myrats.

860
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, shit, all right, it's not going to work as

861
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 3: a mayonnaise guy. Yeah, let's sign and reformulate this. I

862
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 3: thought sarcana would be a hit.

863
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 2: Now that may be what happened. I found a positive

864
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 2: account about doctor Krebs and an article for the San

865
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 2: Diego Reader because a lot of real journalists did a

866
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 2: lot to launder this guy's nonsense. And that article claims,

867
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 2: and I'm thinking this is pretty close to the claims

868
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 2: like Krebs was making. Doctor Krebs administered as extract to

869
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 2: cancerous laboratory mice in the hope that the condition of

870
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 2: the mice would improve sufficiently to substantiate his beliefs. The

871
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 2: results were encouraging and disappointing at the same time. Some

872
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 2: of the mice showed signs of improving and there was

873
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 2: evidence that the growth of their cancers had actually been slowed,

874
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 2: but others showed no reactions to the drug whatsoever. Worse yet,

875
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 2: some of the mice died suddenly. Since scientific judgments are

876
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 2: based on recognizable and predictable patterns, and since no definite

877
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 2: pattern of success had emerged, doctor Crebs could only conclude

878
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 2: that the substance in its present form was not adequate.

879
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 2: And you see how they're like, no, is that totally bad?

880
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 2: Some of the device looked like the cancers were slower,

881
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 2: say that they were cured, like, we're not actually claiming that,

882
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:03,959
Speaker 2: but also a bunch died.

883
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 4: But you know it wasn't.

884
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 3: Totally because what's the balance, doctor Crebs? What's the balance there?

885
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,160
Speaker 3: Would you say, like sixty forty were cured and forty died?

886
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 2: What do you think is this is like again, if

887
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: I'm like drunk driving my four Runner through a trailer

888
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 2: park and I hit six people and three of them live,

889
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 2: I'm like, look, there was success and failure and me

890
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 2: driving through that trailer park. You know we had both,

891
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 2: we had, but it's mixed. It's called to say if

892
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 2: this is bad for trailer push, it's a push a

893
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 2: new angle.

894
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:30,879
Speaker 4: We got to reformulate.

895
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 2: You know, can get a different kind of Toyota to

896
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:34,280
Speaker 2: drive through a trailer.

897
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 3: Okay, less acid next time I get in the four runn.

898
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: Sure, Sure it's really gonna help us with getting that

899
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: Toyota sponsorship.

900
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 2: From Toyota, You sponsor this podcast, and I'll lie about

901
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: doing that kind of shit in the ford or a Chevy.

902
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 2: Fuck it. So there's no evidence that any mice were

903
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 2: cured by this bullshit. But we do know that doctor

904
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 2: kreb Senior lied frequently about having records and notes from

905
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 2: his experiments that he didn't have. Whichever version of the

906
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 2: tale you believe. He starts exploring with other less toxic

907
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: formulations after this In nineteen forty nine, per the official story,

908
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 2: his son, doctor Ernst Krebbs Junior, who is not a

909
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 2: doctor but is a junior, starts working with his father

910
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 2: and modifies his toxic sarcinas compound into something closer to

911
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 2: strait amigdalen and he names it La trill. And this

912
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 2: is the official bio as given by Latrill devotees. Devotees,

913
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: how did I say that one?

914
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:26,399
Speaker 1: Wrong?

915
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 3: Weird?

916
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,959
Speaker 2: Now, there are alternate stories as to how Latrill comes

917
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 2: around and one of them is pretty fun. A later

918
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 2: dealer of this stuff, Michael Cuthbert, who knew kreb sor

919
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 2: made this claim. And I'm going to quote from a

920
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 2: quack Watch article here. Krebs ran a lucrative business analyzing

921
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 2: smuggled whiskey for wood alcohol and developed La trill while

922
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 2: working on a bourbon flavoring extract. During experiments with the

923
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 2: mold growing on the barrels in which the whisky was aged,

924
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 2: he isolated an enzyme that he thought might have anti

925
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 2: tumor activity. When a supply of barrel mold was exhausted,

926
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,319
Speaker 2: he switched to apricot pits and used extracts which he

927
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,879
Speaker 2: called sarkeit for various tests. And what I love about

928
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 2: this is that, like this is dressing it up. But

929
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,720
Speaker 2: when you're analyzing smuggled whiskey for wood alcohol and developing

930
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,720
Speaker 2: a flavor, he's in the bootlegging business. He's being given

931
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 2: different kinds of moonshine, and he's his job as a

932
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 2: chemist is to make it taste like whiskey, right, That's

933
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:20,800
Speaker 2: where this medicine comes from.

934
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 3: It, So your doctor, no, I'm like a illegal booze flavor.

935
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 2: That's that's like hearing like, yeah, so look, that's like

936
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 2: a few doctors like, yeah, I got this cancer cure

937
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 2: I invented. Oh had you invented? Well, I was cutting

938
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 2: cocaine for a friend of mine and I got this

939
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 2: perfect mix of like baby laxative and fentanyl that I

940
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 2: really think knocks out tumors.

941
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's called it's called the eye of the needle.

942
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 3: Because I've threaded that ship.

943
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 4: I'll take thread of that ship perfectly.

944
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 3: They send me the base straight from Bolivia and I

945
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 3: can step on that shit like sixteen times, baby crazy hair.

946
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 3: This shit is man fucking Gregory Hines. The way I'm

947
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 3: stepping on this.

948
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 2: Like rubbing his gums the whole time, blinking shitload. So basically,

949
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 2: old man Krebs wound up, you know, bootlegging his way

950
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 2: into a cancer treatment. Now, most stories do agree that

951
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,759
Speaker 2: it's his son, Krebs Junior, who ultimately figures out the

952
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 2: final version of the substance latrill. And so before we

953
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 2: go further, it's probably worth talking about his son a

954
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 2: little bit, and given that bio too, because there's a

955
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 2: couple of bastards and Crebs Junior is one of the

956
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 2: big ones.

957
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,800
Speaker 1: M Ernst crabs like not a real person.

958
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:29,160
Speaker 4: I know, I know.

959
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 2: Ernst Krebs Junior was born in Nevadaia, and most articles,

960
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 2: especially from fake clinics that market latrill and other bogus cures,

961
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 2: will say that he's a doctor, right, doctor Ernst Krebs Junior.

962
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 2: I won't be calling him that because he wasn't one.

963
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 2: He said he was a biochemist and an MD, but

964
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 2: he was neither. Unlike his father, he lacked the discipline

965
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 2: to get a medical degree. Although maybe that's not true.

966
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 2: Maybe it's just that when his dad got an MD,

967
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 2: it was a lot easier, and by the time Junior

968
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 2: is going to school, we've actually turned medicine into a

969
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 2: real job. Right, It's not just like how fast can

970
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 2: you work a saw?

971
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 4: You think?

972
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,800
Speaker 3: His dad was kind of like, you don't need medical school, dude,

973
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 3: What do you need medical school?

974
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 2: If my medical school was watching a man lose his

975
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 2: leg to a cannon.

976
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 3: Ball exactly exactly and then wondering why he died. When

977
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 3: I got my shit smeared hands all over the wound,

978
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 3: it was a big question.

979
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 2: And I got so much shit in his open wound.

980
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 2: You know, shit makes plants grow, which should have made

981
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 2: his leg grow back.

982
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 4: I don't get it.

983
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 3: We're gonna fertilize your wound back to health, sir, you'll

984
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 3: be read his rain.

985
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 2: Uh No, Look, there's tons of worms in the dirt.

986
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,680
Speaker 2: There's worms in your leg. Everything's going fine.

987
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 4: You're dead.

988
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 3: The worms come together. I don't know if you saw

989
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 3: a terminator too, but like how they fucking like how

990
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 3: it come together and reform. That's what the worms do

991
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 3: with your leg, right right, right, terminator too. What are

992
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:46,279
Speaker 3: you talking about, sir?

993
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 2: A doctor in the eighteen eighties, it's like basing his

994
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,439
Speaker 2: medicine on an unreleased James.

995
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 3: Camera virtuosity virtue a remember SID six point seven? Like

996
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 3: Russell Crowe, he used glass to regenerate his wounds. Man,

997
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:00,879
Speaker 3: it's the worm are going to do for you? Bro?

998
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, great stuff. So, whatever the case, he doesn't actually

999
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 2: get an MD. He bounces around several schools he goes to.

1000
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 4: He's spent some.

1001
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 2: Time in California, he spent some time in Tennessee. He's

1002
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 2: done a Mississippi, and none of them give him a degree. Eventually,

1003
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 2: he manages to get one, a BA from the University

1004
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,359
Speaker 2: of Illinois in nineteen forty two. And honestly, if you'd

1005
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 2: asked which of these colleges in the forties was easier

1006
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 2: for a grifter to get a degree from, I would

1007
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 2: have said Mississippi. But it's the U of Illinois, everybody,

1008
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,280
Speaker 2: so congratulations, Mississippi.

1009
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 3: You done it.

1010
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 4: You did it.

1011
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 2: So Krebs Junior attempts to follow his father. He wants

1012
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,279
Speaker 2: to get an MD, and he gets admitted to the

1013
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 2: Hanumann Medical College of Philadelphia, and he spends two or

1014
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 2: three years as an honest to god med student there. However,

1015
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 2: he's never a good med student. In fact, he's so

1016
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 2: bad that he has to repeat his first year. During

1017
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 2: his second year, like he gets held back for being.

1018
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 4: So bad at medicine.

1019
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 2: He gives up being a doctor after this, I think

1020
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 2: his set. His third year doesn't go any better, and

1021
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 2: he transfers to the University of California where he studies

1022
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 2: anatomy and he's trying to get a degree in that,

1023
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 2: but he gets dismissed. The University of California looks at

1024
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 2: his research and are like, this is too unorthodox for us.

1025
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 2: You were not given you a degree. Great question, great question,

1026
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 2: What does unorthodox means?

1027
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yes, so I don't know. It sounds kind of

1028
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 3: that sounds kind of fucked up, they'd say that about

1029
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 3: my research, But go ahead.

1030
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll talk about that because there's a separate quack

1031
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 2: Watch article from one I quoted earlier by a guy

1032
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 2: named doctor Ben Wilson, which provides an explanation as to

1033
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 2: what his unorthodox beliefs about anatomy were. Quote in nineteen

1034
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 2: oh two, a Scottish embryologist named John Beard theorized that

1035
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 2: cancer cells and sells produced during pregnancy called trophoblasts, are

1036
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 2: one and the same. According to Beard, trophoblasts invade the

1037
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 2: uterine wal to form the placenta and umbilical cord. The

1038
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 2: pancreas then produces chimo tripsen, which destroys the trophoblasts. Beard

1039
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 2: postulated that if the pancreas fails to produce enough chimo tripsen,

1040
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 2: blasts circulate through the body of both mother and infant,

1041
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,920
Speaker 2: making them vulnerable throughout life to cancer. And you know

1042
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 2: this is Beard is making this theory in nineteen oh two,

1043
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 2: so he's not a bastard for just being wrong. You

1044
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 2: know this is there's a lot of no bad ideas

1045
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 2: at this.

1046
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,799
Speaker 3: Point, truly however, like, oh, you got the answer, and

1047
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 3: everyone's like no.

1048
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 2: I will say though, this is also very in line

1049
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,680
Speaker 2: with a we we know on this show, having talked

1050
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 2: about like our the history of like autism, you know,

1051
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 2: different diagnoses and whatnot, that it was very popular in

1052
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 2: the early twentieth century for medical guys to be like,

1053
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,839
Speaker 2: everything's the mom's fault. Cancer, that's gotta come from your mom. Yeah,

1054
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 2: it's all moms. Moms are responsible for all the diseases. No,

1055
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 2: I don't have an issue with my mom.

1056
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 4: What do you mean? Yeah, so John.

1057
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 2: Beard again, you know, he proposes this as nineteen oh two,

1058
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 2: and by the nineteen oh five, when Krebs Senior founds

1059
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 2: the John Beard Institute, the state of medical science had

1060
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:58,879
Speaker 2: advanced well beyond Beard's theories, but he and his son

1061
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 2: are obsessed with because they love pseudoscience and they don't

1062
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 2: really care about regular science, so they are convinced this

1063
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 2: guy's got it right now. Krebs Junior, at this point,

1064
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 2: after he gets kicked out of the University of California

1065
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 2: for spreading this nonsense, seems to have accepted, Okay, no

1066
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,879
Speaker 2: respectable scientific institution wants anything to do with me, because

1067
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 2: I'm the bad boys science. He still really wants his MD.

1068
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 2: His brother Byron had become an osteopath, and an osteopath

1069
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 2: is not an MD, but it is a fully licensed physician,

1070
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:34,640
Speaker 2: and so Byron Krebs is a kind of doctor. And

1071
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 2: dad's a kind of doctor. I gotta be a kind

1072
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 2: of doctor. And the fact that no medical school would

1073
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 2: take him anymore could have been a real problem. But

1074
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 2: thankfully he gets asked right around this point to deliver

1075
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 2: an hour long lecture at a Bible college in Tulsa

1076
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 2: because he is a weird religious extremist too. Now this

1077
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 2: Bible college, which is now defunct, awards him an honorary

1078
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 2: doctorate for his one hour speech.

1079
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 4: Yes, ah, now we're good. I'm a doctor.

1080
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 3: I got it. Fuck yeah, fuck yeah, thank you so much.

1081
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 3: He's like doing karate kicks and ship. Now.

1082
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 2: First off, honorary doctorate not a real doctorate. Second, the

1083
00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:14,040
Speaker 2: school was not even accredited by the state any kind

1084
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 2: of doctorate.

1085
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 4: Right, they can't give real.

1086
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 2: People, like real students, a doctorate, let alone fake ones.

1087
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 3: I'm a kind of doctor. That was That was it.

1088
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 3: That was the only thing I was reaching for to

1089
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 3: be a kind of doctor.

1090
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 2: Wow, and from this point forward, Krebs Junior will be

1091
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 2: called doctor Krebs Junior by his supporters for the rest

1092
00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:31,720
Speaker 2: of his life.

1093
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:32,520
Speaker 3: Good for him.

1094
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 2: Now, God, I gotta find a way to become a

1095
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,479
Speaker 2: Kentucky colonel Miles. That's that's my dream.

1096
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 4: We can do that.

1097
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 2: We could do that, and then then I can walk

1098
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,800
Speaker 2: around and give the National Guard orders if I understand

1099
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:46,800
Speaker 2: how the military works, which I don't.

1100
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll just work for like open AI.

1101
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 4: Sure.

1102
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:51,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's like another quick way to become a.

1103
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,399
Speaker 4: I'm already a colonel. Guys, bring me in hell.

1104
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 3: Yeah. Now.

1105
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,240
Speaker 2: Once every respectable learning institution had turned him down, Krebs

1106
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 2: Junior continue his research into Beard's theories with an actual

1107
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 2: doctor named Charles Gershaut, who's a French pharmacologist who had

1108
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 2: left his university for similar reasons, which is that he's

1109
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 2: obsessed with John Beard and the college is like, well,

1110
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:13,360
Speaker 2: that's bullshit.

1111
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 4: You have to stop. You have to start doing real science,

1112
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 4: and he's like fuck you. So he and.

1113
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 2: Gershow, Creubs Junior and gars Show publish a letter in

1114
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 2: the journal Science and is not a study. It's a

1115
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,839
Speaker 2: letter to the journal in which they argue that people

1116
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 2: should adopt Beardy and methods of oncology. And this article

1117
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,959
Speaker 2: is the basis in nineteen fifty for a thesis which

1118
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 2: they publish and lay out a synthesis of Beard's theory.

1119
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,160
Speaker 2: So basically, they're taking this guy from nineteen oh two

1120
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 2: and they're adding some modern understanding to it to modernize

1121
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 2: Beard's cancer theories for a new generation. And I'm going

1122
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:51,399
Speaker 2: to quote from an article by doctor James Harvey Young.

1123
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 3: Here.

1124
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 2: All cancer, they asserted, is one brought on when the

1125
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 2: normal trophoblast cell goes wrong. This cell, which in both

1126
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 2: sexes emerges from a very primitive cell, is best known

1127
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:03,880
Speaker 2: for its role in securing the embryo to the uterine wall.

1128
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 2: This function, the CREB stated, demands erosion, infiltration, and metastasizing

1129
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 2: and becoming cancerous. Trophoblasts do the same things dangerously. Beard

1130
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:17,719
Speaker 2: had said that some pancreatic enzymes attack trophoblasts. Crebs and

1131
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 2: Gurshow had found an enzyme they believed to be specifically

1132
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 2: antithetical to malignant cells. So basically they're like, yeah, it's

1133
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 2: all the fault of these trophoblasts. And my dad found

1134
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 2: out that there's these pancreatic enzymes that attack trophoblasts. So

1135
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:33,160
Speaker 2: what we got to do is find an enzyme that

1136
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 2: specifically attacks just these trophoblasts when they're going crazy. And

1137
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 2: we think we've got it, we found it out right,

1138
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:41,840
Speaker 2: Boom huzzah.

1139
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 3: Exactly.

1140
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 2: Now, given that this is about latrill, and I've already

1141
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 2: told you that Krebs Junior discovers how to make latrill

1142
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty one, you might expect that to be

1143
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 2: the enzyme that he and Gurshow put forward in their

1144
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty study.

1145
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 4: It is not.

1146
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 2: The initial cancer silver bullet they're selling is a different

1147
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 2: enzyme called chime trips, which has nothing to do with latrill.

1148
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 2: But for whatever reason, they switched to latrill in nineteen

1149
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 2: fifty one and edit their theory about how cancer works

1150
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,240
Speaker 2: so that this new substance is what makes most senses

1151
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 2: a treatment. Wait, that's how real science works.

1152
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,839
Speaker 3: Holy shit. They're like, well, we got this other one

1153
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,359
Speaker 3: we can sell, all right, all right, get some white out,

1154
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 3: get some white.

1155
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 4: Out, white out, get some white out. Nobody's gonna remember.

1156
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 3: A trill a trill. It's always been la trill, y'all.

1157
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:25,280
Speaker 3: This is the new formula.

1158
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 4: We just spelled it.

1159
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:29,840
Speaker 2: Wrong. I got this thing I write like my l'sis sees.

1160
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 4: You know how it goes.

1161
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:35,640
Speaker 3: Guys, you know I was going through a benzo withdrawal

1162
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 3: then I was I was fucking wacky man.

1163
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know what I was saying.

1164
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 2: So the proposed method of action for Latrill was based

1165
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 2: on the fact that contained a precursor chemical which, as

1166
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 2: I said, there's this amigdalant in there which has like

1167
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 2: a precursor to fucking cyanide. And when that chemical is

1168
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 2: hydrolyzed by an enzyme called beta glucosidase that is in

1169
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 2: high concentration near tumors, the Latrill will will release hydrogen cyanide.

1170
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:03,560
Speaker 3: Right.

1171
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 2: So basically the problem is we know cyanide can kill tumors,

1172
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 2: but it also just kills everything else. How do you

1173
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 2: just get the cyanide to the tumor? Oh well, if

1174
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 2: people get Latrill injected into them at a tumor, then

1175
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 2: this beta glucosidase will turn the chemical in Latrill into

1176
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 2: hydrogen cyanide and it'll just get released on the tumor.

1177
00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:29,800
Speaker 3: Right then, where does it go? Great question, Miles.

1178
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 2: First off, there's a lot of issues with this that's

1179
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:35,239
Speaker 2: not even the first issue with this. First off, they

1180
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 2: believe but that is but that I am explaining that,

1181
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 2: like this is what they're how they're saying right in there,

1182
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 2: you shoot it in the beta glucosidase will turn it

1183
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 2: into cyanide around the tumor, but not anywhere else, So

1184
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 2: it'll be it'll whatever we inject in you will be

1185
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 2: fine for the rest of your body. And he even

1186
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 2: comes up with a method that like, well, normal cells

1187
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 2: are actually going to be safe from the rest of

1188
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 2: this stuff because normal, healthy cells that aren't cancers contain

1189
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 2: something called rodencies, which is an enzyme that detoxifies hydrogen

1190
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 2: cyanide and isn't found in cancerous cells. Now, you might

1191
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,360
Speaker 2: have nosed a problem with this, which is that cyanide

1192
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:13,279
Speaker 2: kills people. And if like cyanide kills healthy people, So

1193
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:15,919
Speaker 2: if your normal healthy cells have a thing that detoxifies

1194
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 2: hydrogen cyanide, how does cyanide kill people? Mm hmm, right,

1195
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,720
Speaker 2: you see maybe problem if like that's normal for cells

1196
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 2: to just detoxify cyanide. I don't know. That's one issue here, right.

1197
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 2: The other issue is that all this stuff they're saying

1198
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,319
Speaker 2: about like oh yeah, there's this beta glucosidase, and it's

1199
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 2: in high concentration new tumors, and that turns you know,

1200
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:39,320
Speaker 2: the latrill into cyanide. None of that's true. We beta

1201
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 2: glucosidase does turn amigdalen into cyanide, right, it does cause

1202
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 2: that release like that, That beta glucosidase does work the

1203
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 2: way that they say it does. However, there's not an

1204
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 2: abnormal amount of beta glucosidase in cancerous tissue, and in fact,

1205
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 2: there's more in healthy tissue under normal conditions.

1206
00:55:59,480 --> 00:55:59,800
Speaker 3: Come on.

1207
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 2: The good news is that, because of how our bodies work,

1208
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 2: if you're taking the trill, if you're like eating it,

1209
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 2: if you're basically doing anything but like injecting it, and

1210
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,879
Speaker 2: even then some times if you inject it, there's good

1211
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 2: odds that it just passes through your body because we

1212
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 2: don't have a ton of beta glucosidase, right and so, like,

1213
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:19,720
Speaker 2: the actual reality is if you just eat an apricot

1214
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:21,920
Speaker 2: pill or a ground up apricot pill, you shouldn't, but

1215
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,479
Speaker 2: there's a decent chance that just passes through you without

1216
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 2: hurting you. Right now, not always, because different people's bodies

1217
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,919
Speaker 2: are different, and sometimes people have more of this and Also,

1218
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 2: if you're just injecting it into a part of the body,

1219
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 2: you might inject it into cells that have this, and

1220
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 2: then you're you're basically just poisoning people with cyanide. So

1221
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 2: it's not impossible you can in fact give people cyanide

1222
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 2: poisoning this way. It's just that most people, especially who

1223
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:48,640
Speaker 2: take it as a pill, are just gonna piss it

1224
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 2: out or shit it out or whatever.

1225
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 3: Right, and then it's just their own little placebo effect

1226
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 3: in their mind or something right.

1227
00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 2: Right, Generally, that's what's going to happen, but not always

1228
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 2: and put a pin in that. So once Latrill is

1229
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 2: ready for the prime time, which they decide is now,

1230
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 2: doctor Krebs Senior and his not a doctor's son start

1231
00:57:06,200 --> 00:57:09,480
Speaker 2: a full court pr press, breaking to magazines and other

1232
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 2: doctors that we have cracked the cancer code, we found

1233
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 2: a cure, We've solved it.

1234
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:15,040
Speaker 3: John.

1235
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:19,480
Speaker 2: They start using the John Beard Memorial Foundation to finalize

1236
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:23,800
Speaker 2: a recipe and they start producing. The foundation contracts with

1237
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 2: a company in Pasadena to produce Latrill, and latrill Is

1238
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 2: starts being distributed, and again they're not distributing it as

1239
00:57:31,640 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 2: a normal prescription medication. They're using a loophole, which is

1240
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 2: that they're calling it an investigational drug, so we're producing

1241
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 2: it to test it. Who are we testing it.

1242
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 3: On anyone who will pay, anyone who's down?

1243
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 2: Are we taking data on testing it? Absolutely not.

1244
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 3: No, No, we're going to call this one deep space

1245
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:50,000
Speaker 3: nine because there's no data.

1246
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1247
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 2: This is just like how as a kid we were

1248
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 2: doing research chemicals. We're like, yeah, we're all investigating how

1249
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 2: these things work. Yes, six people have taken this weird drug.

1250
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 2: Gonna be seven?

1251
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 4: Fuck it, I don't know.

1252
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, let'shuff this paper bag with the spray pain and know,

1253
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 3: let's just see where this thing goes.

1254
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 2: I'm gonna learn where the fatal dose lies on fucking

1255
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 2: two CT seven or whatever.

1256
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1257
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:14,440
Speaker 2: So, since cancer treatment was in an even more primitive

1258
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 2: state back then, lots of patients and doctors were open

1259
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 2: to something that might succeed where other treatments had failed

1260
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 2: and some of them and you're guessing these are not

1261
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 2: the best doctors read the Crebs Like the Crebs's explanation

1262
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:27,760
Speaker 2: are like, well, I guess that makes sense, And a

1263
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,760
Speaker 2: lot of California doctors start prescribing this to patients right

1264
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 2: in short order, and these are you know, it's at

1265
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 2: the start. A lot of what's going on here is

1266
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 2: these are people taking other treatments. They're not taking this

1267
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 2: instead of other stuff. And these are people who are like,

1268
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 2: well shit, they're not responding to the medicine that we

1269
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 2: know cut sometimes works, hail Mary, right, you know, can't

1270
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 2: be any worse, right, can't be. So, you know, requests

1271
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:51,919
Speaker 2: are primarily the West coast California and Oregon is where

1272
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 2: this really gets started, but requests trickle in from the

1273
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 2: rest of the country. And he's you know, he very cribs,

1274
00:58:56,840 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 2: very quickly, gets like a patent in England, and he's

1275
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 2: selling it in England. He's not doing not making a

1276
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:04,880
Speaker 2: lot of money yet, but it's like starting to pick up, right.

1277
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 4: And one of the.

1278
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 2: Things that separates Latrill from modern scam cares and a

1279
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 2: lot of scam cares of the day is that and

1280
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 2: this is one of the smart things Crebs is not.

1281
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:16,280
Speaker 2: He's not like putting ads in that are like kenzec uah,

1282
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:19,959
Speaker 2: this all fixed whatever ails you Trill right, He learns

1283
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 2: spreading primarily that way from these shady catalogs, and so

1284
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of illegal evidence of like they

1285
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 2: have this big publication where they're saying it does this. Instead,

1286
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 2: he's selling it through respected medical doctors in their clinics

1287
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:36,560
Speaker 2: primarily or face to face because they've got practices. So

1288
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 2: they're selling it in their own practices, and they're getting

1289
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 2: doctors and whatnot to start pushing it as it's a

1290
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 2: lot closer to what the pharmaceutical industry is going to

1291
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 2: be doing with stuff like fucking hydro oxycodone and a

1292
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 2: couple of generations.

1293
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 3: Right. Right, they're like, actually, I got a thing that

1294
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 3: you might might help you.

1295
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 2: Let's start spreading this through doctors, right, And so's it's

1296
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 2: less initially visible to the regulators that are that do

1297
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 2: care that Kreb Senior has had go after.

1298
01:00:02,000 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 4: Him for a quack here before.

1299
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 3: Right, how did you hear about this hydrocodone doctor? Were

1300
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 3: you doing research?

1301
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 2: I was on a golf trip. Actually, yeah, I was

1302
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 2: on a cruise. All the best medicines discovered on.

1303
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 3: Cris Yeah, you always the best. It's this weird. The

1304
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:18,959
Speaker 3: best medicines I discover are like on these sick ass

1305
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 3: vacations from companies.

1306
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 2: Take me no, I look, ma'am, I'm not gonna lie

1307
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 2: your tumor is very aggressive. But I think if I

1308
01:00:28,000 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 2: spend six weeks on the Greek, I think I might

1309
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 2: figure out a cure.

1310
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 4: I'm off to Meekonos, but I will see you.

1311
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 3: Hey, tight, Sit tight now.

1312
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 2: One of the first Latrill merchants was a guy named

1313
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 2: I love this name, Glenn Kittler. And yes, his last

1314
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,840
Speaker 2: name is spelled exactly how you'd spell Kitten Hitler's name.

1315
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:57,720
Speaker 2: Glenn Kittler. Yeah, Kitten Hitler, Kittler Kittler T L A A.

1316
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 2: It's so funny. He was the manager for a clinic

1317
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 2: representing a bunch of doctors in New Jersey. And he's

1318
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 2: not like an oncologist or anything, but he heard a

1319
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 2: tape of Crebs Junior explaining Beard's theories and decided this

1320
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 2: Crebs fellow is on his way to a Nobel prize.

1321
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 2: Another early doctor and Latrill advocate was Arthur Harris, a

1322
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 2: Scottish physician who'd studied under John Beard before moving to

1323
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 2: southern California. Once he heard about Latrill, he renamed his

1324
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 2: practice the Harris Cancer Clinic, and several months later wrote

1325
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:28,920
Speaker 2: an article for Corenet magazine that he was working on

1326
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 2: something that might be the answer to curing cancer.

1327
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 4: So and stuff like this.

1328
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 2: You know, doctors are talking to magazines. There's early stories,

1329
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:38,520
Speaker 2: some which are but they starts to get this buzz

1330
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 2: that like there's a cancer cure out in California that's

1331
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 2: like works better than anything.

1332
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 3: You know, how crazy that you're hyping cancer medicine. Like

1333
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:48,960
Speaker 3: like a rapper is announcing and like teasing an album.

1334
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:51,240
Speaker 3: He's like, you know, I'm actually in the lab right now,

1335
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 3: I'm cooking.

1336
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,720
Speaker 4: I'm cooking some shit up. It's gonna blow your fucking mind.

1337
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:59,000
Speaker 3: You guys are gonna fucking flip when I released his shit.

1338
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 3: It's a certif banger. And by that I mean cancer cure. Okay, right, yeah,

1339
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 3: buckle up.

1340
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 2: So by the mid nineteen fifties, hundreds of Americans at

1341
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 2: least are taking letrill and some of them even claimed

1342
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:14,120
Speaker 2: we've been cured by it. And in any of these stories,

1343
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:17,320
Speaker 2: you'll come across like, oh, this person, and sometimes we'll

1344
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 2: get the person up. Was like they had they were

1345
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:20,920
Speaker 2: told they were dead, they had an incurable cancer, and

1346
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 2: then Latrill cured them. And often what's happening there's there's

1347
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,320
Speaker 2: a couple of things that are going on with these

1348
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 2: some of these are true stories of people that were

1349
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 2: sick with the cancer and then got better. And usually

1350
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:36,280
Speaker 2: when they look into these stories, they're also taking like

1351
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 2: chemo or another real cancer treatment and lttrill and the

1352
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 2: latrill just doesn't hurt them, but you know, we declare

1353
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:44,720
Speaker 2: that that's what saved them. Now, the other kind of

1354
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:48,040
Speaker 2: thing that's happening, and this is just a reality. Sometimes

1355
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 2: people get sick and with stuff they shouldn't get better

1356
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:53,080
Speaker 2: from and get better and we don't really know why.

1357
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:58,000
Speaker 2: Like shit happens in medicine. You get a couple of those, yeah,

1358
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 2: and that's all you need, And that's all you need

1359
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:01,320
Speaker 2: is like one or two cases.

1360
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 4: Now.

1361
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 2: The other part of why that happens more often here

1362
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 2: is that there's a lot of people that get diagnosed

1363
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:09,480
Speaker 2: with cancer who don't have cancer because it's the fifties

1364
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:12,440
Speaker 2: and they're worse at it, and so they start taking

1365
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:14,560
Speaker 2: the trill and they get better because it's something that's

1366
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 2: not cancer that does get better. And then they're like, well,

1367
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 2: obviously I must have been the medical science told me

1368
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 2: this was incurable, and it's just that like, well, medical

1369
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:24,440
Speaker 2: science diagnosed you wrong, bro, you didn't have cancer, right.

1370
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 4: Like, sorry, we fuck up, something.

1371
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:28,400
Speaker 3: Mixed up the X rays. Right, yeah.

1372
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 2: Again, everyone's pretty drunk, especially the doctors.

1373
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 3: So like people fuck up.

1374
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 2: You know, a cancer diagnosis in nineteen fifty could be

1375
01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 2: a lot of other things.

1376
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:40,480
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they're looking at the fucking negatives all backwards

1377
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 3: and shits. Yeah, oh yeah that's cancer.

1378
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 2: And again everyone's good. The doctors are drunk, the patients

1379
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:48,960
Speaker 2: are drunk, and these patients there's also a lot more

1380
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 2: medical science has and just science in general from nineteen

1381
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 2: hundred to nineteen fifty has got make it made so

1382
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:58,360
Speaker 2: many insane leaps that if somebody who's like a scientist

1383
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 2: and these are real doctors selling la Trill, people are

1384
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:04,200
Speaker 2: not generally buying this at this stage. They're just like

1385
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 2: seeing it in a catalog or having like some flim

1386
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 2: flam artists walk up and say, I know what you aid,

1387
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:12,280
Speaker 2: Like it is a doctor in a medical office saying so,

1388
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:14,840
Speaker 2: I want to make it clear the first regular people

1389
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 2: who are buying Latrill for their cancer are not quacks

1390
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 2: and they haven't been conned. They are generally people who

1391
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 2: are trusting their doctors, right, right, right, That is the

1392
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 2: start of the Latrill story, right is not people who

1393
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 2: have been conned.

1394
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 4: It's just people who whose doctors are wrong going on.

1395
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 3: Some of those doctors are corrupted shit normal medical practice.

1396
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 2: Some of those doctors are just fucking up right because

1397
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 2: less is known. But the people at this stage are

1398
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 2: not kooks, right, and they're not even all that into

1399
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:43,040
Speaker 2: alternate medicine. They've just been told we can do nothing

1400
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 2: for you, right t now. The reality is also that

1401
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 2: I've stated that, like, Okay, there's some real cases of

1402
01:04:49,560 --> 01:04:53,320
Speaker 2: people who who got better because they had other treatments

1403
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 2: they were doing alongside the TRILL. And there's cases of

1404
01:04:55,160 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 2: people who we don't exactly know why, maybe they didn't

1405
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 2: have cancer. But when the majority of the case studies

1406
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 2: that were being because you know, they bring up names,

1407
01:05:02,840 --> 01:05:06,280
Speaker 2: they would name patients and whatnot, and reputable researchers would

1408
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 2: trace back these patients and the majority of the time

1409
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 2: either the patient was not a real person or the

1410
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 2: patient had died since giving the testimonial about how the

1411
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 2: trill had saved their lives. Right, That is overwhelmingly what

1412
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 2: we start finding. You're talking about like modern day bots

1413
01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 2: for your medic.

1414
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, because who's going to check on it?

1415
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 3: I know, just Oh my god, these poor fucking people.

1416
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:32,880
Speaker 3: These guys are making fucking names of.

1417
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 2: What's hard is that initially they're not putting this out

1418
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 2: in like articles where they're naming people, where it's a

1419
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 2: lot easier. It's like a doctor talking to other doctors

1420
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:45,040
Speaker 2: at a conference, or you know, one of Krebs are

1421
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 2: one of their people talking to people at a conference

1422
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 2: and naming all these people. But it's just in the room,

1423
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:51,240
Speaker 2: and like, who are you gonna do? Go online and

1424
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 2: search this ship. You're gonna start filing records requests in

1425
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 2: other states? Right, Like, no, you've got drinking to do.

1426
01:05:56,440 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 2: It's the fifties, yeah, Like so, state regulators, though, do

1427
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 2: start to get more involved in the late nineteen fifties.

1428
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 2: The California Medical Association's Cancer Commission is the first professional

1429
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:10,960
Speaker 2: organization that starts looking reaching out to Krebs Senior and

1430
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 2: saying like, hey, we've heard about this Latrill stuff. It's

1431
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 2: getting prescribed everywhere, and the doctors that we've talked to

1432
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:19,080
Speaker 2: who talked to you said that you've got data on

1433
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:20,000
Speaker 2: this stuff working.

1434
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:21,840
Speaker 4: Can we see it?

1435
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1436
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 2: Right, It's like that scene from The Simpsons where like

1437
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 2: Skinner and the Superintendent are like the Aurora borealis contained

1438
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:31,640
Speaker 2: entirely within your Can I see it? And he's like,

1439
01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 2: of course, no, no, I'm going to quote from doctor

1440
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 2: Young's article again. He claimed that limited trials of toxicity

1441
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 2: and animals had been performed with satisfactory results, but that

1442
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 2: the records had been destroyed. You got to protect the

1443
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:47,440
Speaker 2: animal's privacy, hippo, laws man.

1444
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 4: That's not a bad miles.

1445
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:54,880
Speaker 2: No human trials involving litrill had been undertaken, but the

1446
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 2: Commission was offered case reports of patients in which spectacular

1447
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 2: results had supposedly been observed. However, the details claimed by

1448
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 2: the Crebs team could not be confirmed by other sources.

1449
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,080
Speaker 2: The Commission was able to obtain a small supply of

1450
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 2: the trill for animal tests at three medical centers, all

1451
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 2: of which produced negative results. Right, so they they cannot

1452
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 2: actually pin him down. He's just claiming to have this data,

1453
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:17,200
Speaker 2: but he won't present it. And when they get some

1454
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 2: litrill to try, they don't see it any evidence that

1455
01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 2: it does shit.

1456
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 3: Well, what kind of animals are you using? That? Cancer?

1457
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 4: Yeah? How bad? Is there not? Wrong kind of cancer?

1458
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:28,479
Speaker 3: Were they messed up? Messed up? Is that a medical

1459
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 3: getting fucked up. You got to be fucking messed up, bro. Yeah,

1460
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:32,800
Speaker 3: the trill won't work.

1461
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1462
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:36,280
Speaker 2: So this begins the process of medical experts trying to

1463
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 2: clamp down on latrill hysteria, and over the next years,

1464
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 2: the Crebs face increasing resistance to their business selling this stuff.

1465
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:45,959
Speaker 2: In nineteen fifty six, as a result, Krebs Junior makes

1466
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:50,000
Speaker 2: contact with a wealthy Canadian benefactor, R. L. McNaughton, who

1467
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 2: would go on to be one of the most important

1468
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 2: people for popularizing this stuff.

1469
01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 1: Everybody in this script sounds like a fake person.

1470
01:07:57,680 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 4: They do are not.

1471
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 3: Is very Andrew.

1472
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:01,240
Speaker 2: R L.

1473
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:02,880
Speaker 4: McNaughton or something like that is his full name.

1474
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, R. L. Stein. These are all very real names.

1475
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:07,400
Speaker 4: You want to know who? McNaughton was?

1476
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 2: No cool this guy, This guy is fascinating. So if

1477
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:16,120
Speaker 2: the last name McNaughton sounds familiar to our Canadian listeners,

1478
01:08:16,120 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 2: it's because his dad was General A. G. L. McNaughton,

1479
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:22,960
Speaker 2: commander of Canada's Armed Forces in World War Two. During

1480
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:25,040
Speaker 2: the war, Andrew worked as a test pilot for the

1481
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:28,000
Speaker 2: Royal Canadian Air Force and after it he used his experience.

1482
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:30,479
Speaker 2: He'd gone to business school prior to the war and

1483
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:32,240
Speaker 2: so when the war ends, he's like, Wow, there's a

1484
01:08:32,280 --> 01:08:34,920
Speaker 2: lot of war surplus that we don't need, but other

1485
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:37,880
Speaker 2: countries might need it because they like fighting wars. What

1486
01:08:38,000 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 2: if I start running guns? You know. He's like this

1487
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:45,639
Speaker 2: fail son of this successful general and is like, well,

1488
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 2: I'm done being an adrenaline junkie as a pilot. I'm

1489
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:51,559
Speaker 2: going to be an adrenaline junkie smuggling arms illegally into

1490
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:52,240
Speaker 2: war zones.

1491
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:54,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's just like drunk. He's like, dude, my dad's

1492
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:56,120
Speaker 3: got a shitload of guns at home.

1493
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1494
01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:58,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, Canada's got a lot of them lying.

1495
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:00,200
Speaker 3: So many guns here you won't even.

1496
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:02,799
Speaker 2: He becomes he's one of the first people to smuggle

1497
01:09:02,840 --> 01:09:06,840
Speaker 2: guns guns into Palestine before Israel is a state. He's

1498
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 2: smuggling them into the Haganah, right, like, and then it

1499
01:09:09,040 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 2: kind of the early days of the Israeli state. He's

1500
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:13,559
Speaker 2: smuggling them guns, right, So like that's one of his

1501
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:16,599
Speaker 2: first jobs. But also this guy crosses the spectrum because

1502
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 2: he also he pretends to be working to sell weapons

1503
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 2: to the Batista government in Cuba, right, which is the

1504
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 2: government that Castro overthrows.

1505
01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:25,759
Speaker 4: So you think, like, oh, okay, that's.

1506
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:28,760
Speaker 2: Consistent, you know, that's it's consistent with his others smuggling.

1507
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 2: But no, he's not actually working for Batista. He's really

1508
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:35,360
Speaker 2: he's completely on board with Castro. He fucking loves Castro,

1509
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:38,160
Speaker 2: and so he's pretending to sell guns to Batista, but

1510
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:40,759
Speaker 2: whenever a shipment comes in, he's tipping off Castro's rebels

1511
01:09:40,760 --> 01:09:43,639
Speaker 2: so they can steal the guns he gets. Castro makes

1512
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:47,320
Speaker 2: him an honorary Cuban citizen because of how crucial he

1513
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 2: is to the revolution.

1514
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 3: He was a shady drug dealer who was setting up

1515
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:52,880
Speaker 3: his fucking custies like that.

1516
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:55,360
Speaker 4: Like yeah, and he's doing he's doing both. He's got

1517
01:09:55,439 --> 01:09:58,559
Speaker 4: he's smuggling arms to Israel and to Castro. It's fucking

1518
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:00,080
Speaker 4: wild stuff.

1519
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:02,640
Speaker 3: About that money. He's just about that money, about.

1520
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:05,120
Speaker 2: That money, and I think, honestly, I suspect a lot

1521
01:10:05,160 --> 01:10:07,639
Speaker 2: of it is just like these are the two scariest

1522
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:09,800
Speaker 2: places to smuggle guns into right now. And I'm kind

1523
01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:11,400
Speaker 2: of an adrenaline junkie, so fuck it.

1524
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:14,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, And he's like, dude, and I take them on me,

1525
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:15,040
Speaker 3: I carry it on me.

1526
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:16,120
Speaker 4: I love it, I love it.

1527
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:18,479
Speaker 3: I walk like this, dude, I've got so many guns

1528
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:26,840
Speaker 3: on me, just nothing at all. I'm good. Click. So

1529
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 3: there's bullets falling out of your pet, Like, nah, that's

1530
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 3: hair's pubic hair.

1531
01:10:31,400 --> 01:10:34,040
Speaker 4: Gotta go my pubic hair. It looks that way.

1532
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:36,880
Speaker 2: I have a lot of copper and ma diet bye.

1533
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 2: So this shady gun dealer was not at all concerned

1534
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 2: about the fact that modern medical science could provide no

1535
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:46,360
Speaker 2: evidence that latroll worked. The fact that people didn't want

1536
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:48,680
Speaker 2: it sold seem to excite him, because again he's the

1537
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:50,960
Speaker 2: guy that like, where don't people want me smuggling guns?

1538
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 2: That's where I'm smuggling guns.

1539
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:54,240
Speaker 4: Baby.

1540
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:58,280
Speaker 2: He founded a company, bio Enzymes International, and he built

1541
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:02,799
Speaker 2: factories in seven countries to sell Latrill. McNaughton's business started

1542
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:05,479
Speaker 2: operating in nineteen sixty one, and there's evidence that at

1543
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:08,519
Speaker 2: least one of its funders was a Jersey mobster. In

1544
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:11,920
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy seven, McNaughton would admit that, yes, a Jersey

1545
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:15,559
Speaker 2: mob a major mafioso, gave me the startup capital. But

1546
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:18,360
Speaker 2: not because this is a mob front or a crooked business.

1547
01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:18,960
Speaker 4: No, no, no, no no.

1548
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:23,519
Speaker 2: I cured his sister with Latrill, and the mobster's a

1549
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:25,760
Speaker 2: wonderful guy. And he wanted to help other people have

1550
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 2: access to this medicine.

1551
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:29,799
Speaker 4: No upset.

1552
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 3: Wait, so do you think that's real? Like he actually

1553
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:33,160
Speaker 3: just could win.

1554
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:36,439
Speaker 4: I was like, it's a mob business. He just took

1555
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:37,320
Speaker 4: mob money.

1556
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:42,120
Speaker 3: I just love to here anybody this potential Sopranos storyline

1557
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:48,280
Speaker 3: that Soprano's dad was the guy who Yeah, grown take

1558
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:49,120
Speaker 3: the fucking latrill.

1559
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:51,320
Speaker 1: Robert's never seen the Sopranos.

1560
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:52,120
Speaker 3: That's fine.

1561
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:54,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm Italian. It's coded into my DNA.

1562
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:57,360
Speaker 3: It's fine. It's for all the people that are listening.

1563
01:11:56,960 --> 01:11:58,840
Speaker 1: That have I know, but it upsets me.

1564
01:11:59,160 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 2: Look, I know how to do two things. I know

1565
01:12:01,320 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 2: those Sopranos. This is epigenetic. I know the Sopranos, and

1566
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:06,280
Speaker 2: I know how to lose a war in Western Germany.

1567
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:10,280
Speaker 2: You know those are Italian heritage and beat the fuck

1568
01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 2: out of the Belgians too. Just give me a chance.

1569
01:12:13,560 --> 01:12:14,280
Speaker 4: We did it once.

1570
01:12:14,479 --> 01:12:17,640
Speaker 2: Look, so we're getting ahead of ourselves here, because in

1571
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:20,320
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty one, the same year that McNaughton started his operation,

1572
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 2: Krebs Junior and the John Beard Foundation were indicted for

1573
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:27,719
Speaker 2: interstate shipment of an undocumented drug. Now this was not Litrill.

1574
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:30,960
Speaker 2: This was a totally different quack remedy. They were selling

1575
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:34,080
Speaker 2: like panthogenic acid or something, which we'll talk about later.

1576
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:37,080
Speaker 2: But the whole fact of this that they they're going

1577
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 2: after them for that, but they really are trying to

1578
01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:42,879
Speaker 2: stop them from selling thetrill. So Crebs Junior gets sentenced

1579
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 2: to prison, but his sentence is suspended to a three

1580
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:48,640
Speaker 2: year probation and as the terms of the settlement to

1581
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:50,720
Speaker 2: keep them out of jail, both Crebs has agreed that

1582
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:54,160
Speaker 2: neither they nor their foundation will produce or selely trill

1583
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:56,679
Speaker 2: again until it's been approved for testing by the FDA.

1584
01:12:57,040 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 3: Right.

1585
01:12:57,320 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 4: Oh, so that's the end of the story. We're good

1586
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:02,880
Speaker 4: on our things. Fine, Yeah, people stop taking this stuff.

1587
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:06,800
Speaker 2: Dodd's a bullet there, h Miles, shit, quick question?

1588
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:07,280
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1589
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:09,280
Speaker 4: Is ten less than twenty one?

1590
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:13,000
Speaker 3: Is ten? Ah? Man, I couldn't tell you. I'm gonna

1591
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:14,120
Speaker 3: go say yes.

1592
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:16,800
Speaker 2: Then I think we might have a part two coming up,

1593
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:20,519
Speaker 2: you know what. We're gonna take a break and come

1594
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:22,719
Speaker 2: back Thursday and we'll figure out if I wrote another

1595
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:23,519
Speaker 2: eleven pages.

1596
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:24,760
Speaker 4: Well you did it, you know.

1597
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:25,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1598
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 2: There's no way to tell other than by looking at

1599
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 2: the document in front of me.

1600
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 3: At the page number I am currently on.

1601
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:33,600
Speaker 2: The page that I'm currently looking at, can confirmed.

1602
01:13:34,040 --> 01:13:36,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you have anything you want to plug?

1603
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:46,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, vaccines generally medicines. What else is there? Uh, medaphinil,

1604
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:50,240
Speaker 3: other nootropic drugs. I think those are really good.

1605
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:51,440
Speaker 4: Medaphinil.

1606
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:54,960
Speaker 3: No, just come check check me out on the daily

1607
01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:57,759
Speaker 3: Zeitgeist every day and then if you don't like hearing

1608
01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:01,800
Speaker 3: about news, I dissociate on twenty Day Fiance where I

1609
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 3: talked with Sophia Alexandro about ninety day Fiance but like faded,

1610
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 3: So check that out.

1611
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:11,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, hell yeah, Well, everybody do something or not, you

1612
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:14,120
Speaker 2: know what, find your own cancer here to clear it

1613
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:18,320
Speaker 2: to work. We're in a different era now. Anyone can

1614
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:21,639
Speaker 2: hear any disease and make money off of it, as

1615
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:26,240
Speaker 2: long as you don't. Really, there's not even any As

1616
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:28,879
Speaker 2: long as just just do it, just self safe weapons,

1617
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:29,920
Speaker 2: you'll be fine.

1618
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 3: Nike style. Phil Knight's stall y'all Yeah.

1619
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:38,559
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1620
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:41,519
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1621
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:45,559
Speaker 1: Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1622
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:48,800
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Behind the

1623
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:52,880
Speaker 1: Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes every Wednesday

1624
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:56,639
Speaker 1: and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash

1625
01:14:56,800 --> 01:14:58,320
Speaker 1: At Behind the Bastards