WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 17 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:13.520 Mama, what does the chicken say? Draff really, giraffe draw? 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:16.040 You're not gonna get it all right. Just make sure 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:18.040 you nail the big stuff, like making sure your kids 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:20.520 are buckled correctly in the right seat for their agent's eyes. 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:24.320 Get it right visits n h d S a dot 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:27.200 gov slash the Right Seat, brought to you by the 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:31.880 National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in the AD Council. Hi, everybody, 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:35.040 I'm Rachel Banetta and I have my very own podcast 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:38.800 called Bench with Banetta. You kidding make I'm just here 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.080 so I won't get fine. Every week, I'm gonna be 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:44.000 talking about all the things I find fascinating about the NFL. 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:46.960 And I'm doing something that has never been done before. 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:51.760 I'm opening my d M s. D MS now open 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:58.840 listen every Tuesday and join me on the Bench. Subscribe 0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.280 now and listen to the Bench with Banetta podcast on 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.240 the I Heart Radio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:09.600 you get your podcasts. The art world, it is essentially 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:13.360 a money laundering business. The best fakes are still hanging 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.399 on people's walls. You know they don't even know or 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:20.520 suspect that their faces. I'm Ale Baldwin, and this is 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:25.080 a podcast about deception, greed, and forgery in the art world. 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:30.040 I just walked in and saw this great red painting 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:34.440 presuming to be a rothco. Of course, art forgeries only 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:38.440 happen because there's money to be made, a lot of money. 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:41.320 I'm listening to how what they're paying for these things. 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:44.720 It was an incredible mans of money. You knew the 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:51.480 painting was fake. Um Listen to Art Fraud starting February 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:55.880 one on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or 0:01:55.920 --> 0:02:06.160 wherever you get your podcasts. M Hey, everybody, Robert Evans 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:08.000 here and I wanted to let you know this is 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:11.520 a compilation episode. So every episode of the week that 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:15.720 just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:18.480 less ads package for you to listen to in a 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:20.959 long stretch if you want. If you've been listening to 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:23.120 the episodes every day this week, there's gonna be nothing 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:25.760 new here for you, but you can make your own decisions. 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:33.840 Welcome to it could happen Here a podcast about things 0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.000 falling apart, and today it's it's there. There's there's a 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:38.760 little bit of I'm getting put back together, but today's 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:42.040 mostly them falling apart. Um, I'm your host, Christopher Wong. 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:44.480 With me, I have Lucy who is a teacher in 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:46.760 Chicago public schools and as part of the Teachers Union, 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:49.359 and today we're going to be talking about just the 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:54.000 absolute shit show that is being inflicted on teachers and 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:57.359 students in public schools. And Lucy, how how are you? 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:01.320 How are you doing? Um? You know, it's it's been 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:05.200 kind of weird, but all in all, I'm in good spirits. 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:08.920 I think my sisters and brothers and CTU are in 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:14.119 good spirits. So we're going to keep fighting the good fight. Yeah. So, 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:17.320 before before we fully start to get into the teachers 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:21.440 Union and Lord Lightfoot's fuckery, I want to sort of 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:23.440 get a bit of context for people who don't live 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:26.440 in Chicago or just don't know much about the only politics, 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:30.040 because lord, you know, if you read sort of like 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:32.480 media accounts of this, like you you, you you may 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:36.000 be sort of misled into into thinking that there's like 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.920 even some semblance of good faith going on here from 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:40.640 Loyd Lightfoot, And like I just I just want to 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.480 like do a great like a Lord Lightfoot Greatest hits 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:47.240 real for a second. So Lightfoot, like immediately after she 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:50.000 got elected, like the like the first thing she does 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:52.040 she starts, she's she literally she's like, Okay, there's too 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:54.800 much crime on the subway. We're gonna put swat teams 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:56.360 on them. So you know, you just be on the 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:58.880 red lighte and there's just wat team and you know, 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:00.560 because again this is what happens. You put a swamp 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:02.960 team on the fucking subway, they immediately shot a dude 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:05.560 in the back for nothing, you just literally no reason. 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:08.400 They shot him in the back. Um. So that that 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:11.280 was like, that was like like the first like few 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:14.400 weeks of Lightfoot. And then during the uprising, she like 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:17.400 she she turned the rich part of Chicago and she's 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:20.400 like a medieval castle like she like like like raised 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:22.600 all the drawbridges into the middle of the city so 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:24.479 that no one could get into the central part of 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:26.800 the city. It was like awful. And then you know, 0:04:26.920 --> 0:04:29.520 then as as as we sort of like there there's 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:33.400 more and more sort of bad lightfoot stuff. Most recently, 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:37.920 so Chicago got a bunch of aid money from the 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:40.680 federal government and she spent two one million dollars of 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:45.200 it paying the police, not the schools. Yeah, nope, and 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:50.679 CPD like these again, I think I talked about this before, 0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:54.240 but like when when the CIA was like our initial 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.279 torturing program failed, where do we go to like find 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:59.120 people who know how to torture? They brought into Chicago 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:01.800 Police Detective like and you know, and and this is 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:03.919 the CPD, Like like like there's there's two have a CPD, right, 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:07.440 there's there's like the torture CPD. And then related to 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:09.520 them but not necessarily identical is the part of the 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.680 CPD that's just a cartel. Like there there was there 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.440 was a thing in in at the beginning of the 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:18.320 tens were like it turned out that like the almost 0:05:18.400 --> 0:05:20.520 like the huge parts of the CPD were literally just 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:23.280 a cartel. They're running drugs. They were just like doing 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:27.280 shakedowns for and and like one person total, like you 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:29.479 got arrested by the FBI for and everyone else is 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:31.440 just still there. It's great, it's a it's a time 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:33.160 so that this is this is who Lorrily Lightfoot is. 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:36.640 Um she sucks like everyone hates her like like her. 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:39.760 The people who should be her political allies hate her. 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.840 Like Chicago Chargo got like a police reform bill, and 0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:44.280 the reason it was like a very mild one but 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:46.719 the reason it happened was just that like like the 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.120 like the Alderman passed it out of just pure spite 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.160 because of how much they don't like Lightfoot. So this 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:55.960 is this is the this has been my Christopher shouts 0:05:55.960 --> 0:06:00.720 that Lightfoot intruded this, but yeah, needs say life Foot 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:04.560 not acting in good faith, just absolutely Batman villain. Yeah, 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:10.200 villain's incredible. No, actually that's not fair because a lot 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:16.440 of Batman villains are kind of right. Yeah, yeah, she's 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:19.279 she's she's she's like the nightmare refusion of like Batman 0:06:19.400 --> 0:06:21.960 and a Batman villain, Like what I what are you think? 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:24.919 The worst aspects of both, and then made them the mayor. 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:31.360 It's it's a yeah, I've been kind of Um so, 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:36.359 I moved here almost a year ago from a smaller city, 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:40.920 and I did not like the mayor in my city, 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:43.040 and he really was a big fan of like the 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:47.120 Lory Lightfoot playbook. But um, I guess people weren't as 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:52.480 politically involved there. And my first week working in Chicago 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:59.240 public schools, um, somebody mentioned the mayor mentioned Laurie, and 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.719 everybody kind of groaned, and I was like, oh, you 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.680 don't like her, you don't like your mayor, And I 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:07.599 mean I knew they didn't, but I was just kind 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.280 of testing the waters, and this lady looks at me 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:13.440 and goes, we hate her. I swear, like if you 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:17.880 mentioned her name in this city, people practically spit on 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:22.400 the ground. It's like it's amazing because like men demon Yeah, 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.920 it's like like Chicago dotoriously we all hate her. Politicians, 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:29.600 but like Lightfoot, like like that there were you would 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:33.920 find rama Manuel supporters, right, Like, I don't know a 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:37.720 single lord like outside of the schools. Within the schools, 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:40.920 everyone I know, like even even the even the cops 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:44.520 don't like her, Like she keeps funneling hundreds of billions 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:46.800 of dollars and they still don't like her. It's like, 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:50.040 it's incredible. Do you unite the teachers union and the 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.200 police union. One siding that's the only thing that they've 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:57.760 ever agreed on is fuck Lory Lightfoot. It's really incredible. 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:03.720 So life, what's latest scheme? Um? Yeah, do you do 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.160 you want to explain? I guess go back a little 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:11.800 bit in into the history of sort of how how 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:16.840 Chicago and Chicago Public schools have kind of been responding 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:19.960 to COVID and then how they just did this stuff 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:22.480 and yeah, I guess like, yeah, give us a background, 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.400 like what's going on right now? Well, I'm going to 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:29.480 preface with two things. One, I am fairly new here, 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.600 so I don't know all of the details. And two, 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:34.920 I really want to emphasize that I'm just here talking 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:38.480 for myself. I don't represent CTU in any way. This 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:43.040 is just I wanted to talk about my feelings on things. 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:49.320 So UM. What I do know is they were doing 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.160 remote learning, and when I arrived here in March, we 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:58.960 were fully remote and UM. Then in the fourth marketing period, 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:03.800 so like around like after spring break, UM we moved 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:08.160 to a hybrid model, so we had parents and kids 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:10.839 could like choose if they wanted to stay online or 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.960 if they wanted to be in person. UM. I think 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:17.760 like sixty percent or more, depending on what school UM 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:20.760 chose the online option. Like a lot of parents just 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:24.080 were not comfortable putting their kids in UM. I know 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:29.200 that there's been like a ton of talk about UM, 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:35.120 you know, like the most economically disadvantaged families need the 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:37.880 schools open, but it's kind of been the reverse. It's 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:41.880 been the people who have UM more means are more 0:09:41.920 --> 0:09:47.360 interested in opening and people who uh are less well 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:49.400 off are a little more resistant to it. I mean, 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:51.240 that's not the same across the board. I don't want 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.800 to generalize too much, but that's been what I've seen. UM. 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.079 I think, if I had to guess it, there's a 0:09:57.120 --> 0:10:00.720 lot of history behind that. Like UM, I mean, first 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:04.679 of all, just can your family afford an illness like this? 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:10.360 And people living in multi general generational households. And I 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:13.800 think something that CPS and our government in general really 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:18.720 fail to acknowledge is just how how much mistrust there 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:24.800 is between government institutions, public schools, and UM people of color, 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.040 and for good reason. You know, they have been repeatedly 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:32.319 just screwed over by these institutions. And I can absolutely 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:35.839 understand why they might not trust a school district that says, hey, 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.200 we'll keep your kids safe, because they weren't doing it 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:43.440 before the pandemic. UM. So we had I had like 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:45.760 seven kids in one of my classes, and like ten 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:48.000 and another and then the rest of them were online. 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:51.480 And I'm like sitting at a computer teaching to the 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.040 kids online and to the kids in their room. All 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:55.840 the kids in the room are on their computers too. 0:10:55.880 --> 0:11:00.160 So that we can like still be like one cohesive class. UM. 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:02.200 It was hard, and it was like kind of like 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.760 mentally fatiguing, like just going back and forth like that. 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.640 But you know, we made it work. I was kind 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.120 of I was really proud of us, Like we made 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:12.920 it work. We made it happen. We stayed in contact 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:17.120 with the families and the kids constantly, UM and like 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:19.760 as things moved on and as numbers started going down, 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:23.120 more people started warning their kids back UM, and then 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:27.840 after spring break they UM well, so like after springbreak 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:30.560 they let people come back. And then as we moved 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:32.360 towards on our more and more kids were coming back. 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:36.240 Which it was the school I was in was UM 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.080 handling it very well. Our principle was really committed to 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:43.200 like keeping us safe. So there was UM testing Like 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:45.559 once a week somebody would come back and be like, yo, 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.800 go get your COVID test. UM. I don't know if 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:53.199 kids were being tested, but I know teachers were. UM. 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:57.360 Then summer happens. I ended up in a different school 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:01.360 in the Austin neighborhood, which is UM a lot less 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:04.000 advantage than the one that I had been working in, 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:09.319 and we open back up fully in person, no remote 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.760 option like at all, like it. UM. The only people 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:17.439 who could get remote were kids that were deemed medically fragile, 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:20.679 but they had to one submit like tons of paperwork 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:24.480 to prove that and to their siblings could not stay removed. 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:26.920 So at that point, it's like, why, what's the point? 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:29.840 And if you were a teacher who had a medically 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:33.199 fragile child in the schools, your kid could be remote, 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:36.200 but you couldn't, So then, you know, how is that 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:41.200 going to work? UM? And I found in the school 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.400 where I was. You know, this is the issue with 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.280 Chicago and with you know, most of the country is 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:49.360 some schools have more resources than others. And the school 0:12:50.280 --> 0:12:52.840 I didn't know where to get tested. Nobody like told me. 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.920 I think there was some kind of testing program, not sure, 0:12:56.480 --> 0:13:01.040 definitely nothing for students. UM. I've since moved to a 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.600 high school that has more resources, but still I have 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:05.079 not been able to figure out where the hec to 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:07.960 get testing. Which has been one of the biggest things 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:12.600 that uh CTU is asking for is we want UM 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:16.640 opt out testing instead of opt in testing, so you 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:20.320 would automatically be registered to test, and if you didn't 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:22.560 want to test, then you would have to opt out, 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:26.000 which would end up with far more people getting tested 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:28.920 and make it a lot easier, because a big part 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:31.120 of why people are signing up is it's really hard, 0:13:31.320 --> 0:13:33.520 Like I don't know where to find it that everyone's 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.000 like it's in your emails somewhere. I've searched my email. 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:39.480 I don't know, Like we get like emails a day, 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.160 like yeah, and it's yeah, Like you know, I think 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.600 anyone anyone who remembers what being in a school is 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:49.400 like those they have, I mean just the absolute worst 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.960 bureaucratic stuff, like it's it's it's it's like honestly, like 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:57.199 it's like my experiences with like academia and like back 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.360 in the high school, like their tech stuff was like 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:05.280 worse than corporate sex stuff, which is like astounding. Mm hmm. 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:09.120 It's it's ridiculous. Do you want to jump into here 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.959 into Lightfoot's like okay, Lightfoot has like invented a new 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:16.520 kind of COVID denialism, which is like like she she's 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:21.400 now turned into like a COVID test denihilist, Like it's incredible, 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:23.080 like she she she has she went on this rant 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:27.040 about how like COVID testing is a quote quasi medical 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:32.000 procedure and how you're gonna get lost, like it's it's bizarre. 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:36.040 So this this journalist asked her about the testing because 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:38.440 and I don't know which journalist that was, but I 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.720 want to thank them so much because they have seen 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.480 a lot of the reporters are actually out there trying 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:48.120 to keep c t use demands in the conversation as 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:50.440 opposed to this like whole oh lazy teachers don't want 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:54.800 to work like fun off, we do want to be working. Um. 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:59.200 But so I almost thought that she had like mixed 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:01.400 up with this since and thought that they were talking 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:06.120 about vaccines. But even so, like stop it, stop, just 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:08.720 stop doing that. But who is having a reaction to 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:11.160 a COVID test? It is like literally a cute tip, 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:16.920 like like you just stick They don't even stick it 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:18.560 that far up your nose anymore. They just do a 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:21.280 little in your nostril or like a mouth swot. Yeah. 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:24.920 Like actually, like as someone who had like like I 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.440 genuinely did have a kind of bad reaction because I 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:29.960 jabbed it up really far and like I was like 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:35.160 sneezing a lot afterwards. But it's like, oh no, you 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:37.920 sneezed a little bit like what what does it even mean? 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:41.920 Like not like I feel like people are acting like 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:45.920 this test is like this weird new technology it is. 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.360 It isn't like right before the pandemic, Like a couple 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:51.160 of months before I had the flu and I had 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.720 exactly the same kind of test. They stuck a thing 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:57.280 up my nose. It was hella uncomfortable. Um it took 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.800 like two seconds. They stuck it on a little plastic thing. 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:02.880 I'm a bob and said, oh, looks like you have 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:08.640 the flu. Yeah, it's I don't know where this is 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:13.440 coming from. I think it's just she is not a 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:17.960 very charismatic person, and she's not someone who does well 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.640 under pressure. And right now she's back into a corner 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:25.320 and she's acting out and it's been kind of wild, 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.840 like I've seen she's she's also throwing other people around 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:32.120 her under the bus. Yeah, Like she says something about 0:16:32.160 --> 0:16:35.400 Pedro Martinez, Like she says, the teachers aren't in charge 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:37.840 of this, Padre Martinez is in charge. She's the CEO. 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:42.000 And I'm like, okay, so you're being this is setting 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:46.080 him up to take the blame on this. Everything that 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:49.040 you tweeted about, like it was she was like, no, no, 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:52.680 it's actually the mayor's and sorry, it's it's actually the Uh, 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:58.760 it's the principles responsible to the principles were like no, yeah, 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.280 CPS is kind of interesting. Um, this can be really 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:04.600 good or really bad depending on what's school you're in, 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:10.560 But the principles really have a lot of autonomy over 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.080 their school. Um. I've now been in two schools where 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.640 that's worked out great. My principal rocks. Um, if she 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:19.879 ever hears this, I hope she knows that I said that. 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:22.840 I think she's great. Um. Also, the principle I worked 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:26.560 at the beginning of school year was awful. Um so, 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:32.000 but when it comes to like district wide protocols, like 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:36.640 that's district wide and so CPS apparently had a meeting 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.720 with principles where um I heard some rumors about this too, 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:43.240 but I also saw that letter that they had posted. Um. 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:48.800 The principles are one really frustrated because CPS isn't communicating 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.320 stuff with them very effectively, and so parents will be 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:54.800 calling like do we have school tomorrow? And they don't know, 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:58.280 but CTU knows, and it's telling their members, so the 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:01.040 teachers all know the like more answers and the principles do, 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.560 which is obviously really embarrassing if you're supposed to be 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:09.600 in charge. Um. And then there they were told in 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:13.760 this meeting with CPS, school is gonna be closed on Friday. Okay, 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:18.080 school's closed on Friday. Great, sounds good. And then Lightfoot 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:21.399 gets on the day news and tells everybody that it 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:24.239 will be done on a school by school basis, at 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:27.760 principle's discretion, depending on if they have staff. So now 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:31.720 all of these principles who had already told their students 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:36.679 and families that, um, we're closing, look like they're the 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:40.639 ones who closed it as opposed like, and that's it 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:42.879 is rare for me to feel bad for a school 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:45.359 principle because that's my boss. You know, I don't like 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.960 my boss, but I feel bad for them right now. 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:52.600 Oh my god. Like you're just trying to like make 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.119 sure that people have the information they need in a 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:57.719 timely manner, and this lady is up here making you 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:02.560 look like a monster. It's so unfair. Yeah, should we 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:05.960 talk about what's been happening and we run up to 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:09.119 the past sort of winter break, and then the stuff 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:13.240 that's happening now because it's very grim and bad. Yeah, 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:17.200 so a lot of schools have been having COVID cases. Um, 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:20.440 there's I'm not really sure what's going on with cps 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.679 IS data. It kind of seems like they're not reporting 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:27.240 it very faithfully or accurately. Like if you look at 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:32.080 their tracker, they'll be cases and then suddenly they'll be gone. Um. 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.120 We never really get a hard number ever. Like will 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:37.920 be like if you have a student in your class 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:41.119 who has been quarantined and we all know what it is, 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:44.720 but they don't say it. They'll be like, um, you know, uh, 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:48.159 Johnny will be out for the next x amount of 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:50.600 time due to health reasons. Please let him join via 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:54.920 Google Meet And they never do. That's the other annoying 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:57.840 thing is like the students, I think because they are 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:01.160 either close contact or they're sick, um you know, to them, 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:04.960 it's like a a break almost, like they're not going 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:09.359 to log in randomly. Like it's it's just with I 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.800 think with kids, like once it stops being consistent and 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:15.680 it's like back and forth all the time, it becomes 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:20.080 very difficult for them to stay motivated because they're out 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:23.080 of their routine. Like I I sometimes hate it when 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:24.720 people say this, but it is kind of true. Kids 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:29.639 kind of thrive on routine. Um. So at this point, 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:33.199 now I have like a third of my class at 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:36.399 any given moment will just not be there and it 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:38.919 will be different third of the class every you know, 0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:42.520 it kind of like rolls through. So all of my 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:46.280 students are like different points in the curriculum. It's hard 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:49.560 to like know what to teach each day because I 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:52.160 don't know who needs what. It's hard to reach out 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:53.640 to the kids that are at home and make sure 0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:55.400 that they get what they need because I'm so busy 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.200 trying to catch these kids up and move these kids 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:01.920 on and all that stuff, um, which I have seen 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:04.480 some research. I'll see if I can find it. Um 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.600 after we're done that like pointed out that like remote 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:10.560 learning isn't the worst thing that can happen. The worst 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:13.560 thing that can happen is just flipping back and forth 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:16.479 all the time and having huge numbers of kids absent 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:21.760 from in person learning. Um. So we go on break 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:27.440 and obviously we have O macron like sweeping through the country, 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:31.400 and we all knew that there were going to be spikes, 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:34.479 Like we knew that in Chicago had what was if 0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:37.840 Illinois had some like astronomically high number of new cravit 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:42.639 cases like breaking records all over the place. Um CPS 0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:48.560 has had huge increases. Yesterday we had forty three four 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:57.080 cases in Illinois. It's that's a lot, like yeah, but yeah, 0:21:57.160 --> 0:22:00.360 so overbreak like the last like the Union and had 0:22:00.400 --> 0:22:04.440 been trying has been trying forever to get CPS to 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:09.480 come in and agree to um a few things. So 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:14.120 one in February we had a um an agreement that 0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:17.960 schools would flip to remote if they reached a certain threshold. 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:22.800 That agreement has expired and CPS has refused to come 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:24.760 to the bargaining table and negotiate a new one. They're 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:27.040 just like, no, we don't need it. We also have 0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:29.400 been trying to get them to do the opt out 0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:34.119 testing and a like surveillance testing programing in school so 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:37.240 we can kind of just have little bits of data 0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:40.560 to understand like where are these cases. CPS doesn't want 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:42.959 to do this. They don't want a threshold for flipping 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:45.640 to remote because then they would have to flip to remote, 0:22:45.800 --> 0:22:48.000 and they don't want the surveillance testing because then they 0:22:48.040 --> 0:22:49.680 would have to flip to remote, and they just don't 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:54.439 want to flip to remote. Um. So finally over break, 0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:55.800 you know, it kind of came to a head, like 0:22:55.840 --> 0:22:59.679 they were still refusing to negotiate, like, um, one of 0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:04.040 the UH union delegates in my building said something about, um, 0:23:04.080 --> 0:23:06.800 they've been meeting. They go to these meetings like you know, 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:09.040 like twice a week. They try to get these meetings 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:11.560 to happen, and the mayor never comes and the CEO 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:14.600 never comes, like they will either send lawyers or they 0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:17.760 don't show up. And it's like, dude, sounded so tired 0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:21.760 into moralized, but he said that. I felt bad for him. Um, 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:25.760 but yeah, So we voted that we were going to 0:23:25.920 --> 0:23:30.960 go in on Monday and Tuesday meet with our safety committees, 0:23:31.080 --> 0:23:34.560 get a feel for what's going on in school, and 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:39.400 then we are going to have a vote on Tuesday 0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:40.720 night as to whether or not we will do a 0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:44.000 remote work action on Wednesday. And I know a lot 0:23:44.040 --> 0:23:46.280 of people have been like trying to make it sound 0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:49.080 like this was very sudden, but it absolutely wasn't. Like 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:52.040 we had a vote about whether or not we were 0:23:52.119 --> 0:23:54.720 interested in doing this, and then we had a vote 0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:57.639 on whether we're still interested on having a vote, and 0:23:57.680 --> 0:24:01.480 then we had the vote and delicates voted on if 0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:05.040 they wanted to hold an official like should we do 0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:09.080 an action vote? We did. Um, it was like seventy 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:13.560 voted yes. Um. There were some complaints that some people 0:24:13.560 --> 0:24:15.600 didn't get their ballots, but they did wait till they 0:24:15.640 --> 0:24:19.200 had enough yes votes to reach that to third majority 0:24:19.240 --> 0:24:23.400 that we needed. So you know, c TU has every 0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:26.880 step of the way really been making sure, um, this 0:24:26.960 --> 0:24:29.640 is actually what we want. This isn't just like unilateral 0:24:30.600 --> 0:24:33.639 things like Lorie keeps throwing that work unilateral around. It 0:24:33.680 --> 0:24:37.320 wasn't unilateral. It was like at least two there's the 0:24:37.359 --> 0:24:40.520 teachers in this district said I don't feel safe at school. 0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:44.240 There's not enough staff in the building right now to 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:47.520 even teach half my kids. A third of my kids 0:24:47.560 --> 0:24:52.480 are out. This isn't working. So yeah, so we voted 0:24:52.520 --> 0:24:54.840 that we're going to stay home and work remotely and 0:24:54.880 --> 0:24:58.720 then we got locked out. Yeah, which again like and 0:24:59.160 --> 0:25:00.720 I want to almost refer gets on this for a second, 0:25:00.760 --> 0:25:03.719 because like even a lot of people who are sympathetic 0:25:04.320 --> 0:25:06.520 to to to the teacher's unions on Twitter, you see 0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:08.600 this a lot, they'll they'll be like the CTU went 0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:10.199 on a strike, and it's like, no, they didn't like 0:25:10.720 --> 0:25:12.640 teachers and teachers are not on strike. The teachers are 0:25:12.680 --> 0:25:16.000 attempting to work from home and school district will not 0:25:16.080 --> 0:25:20.240 let them. Yeah, it's it's every morning. I get up 0:25:20.280 --> 0:25:22.880 at six thirty, I make my coffee and I sit 0:25:22.920 --> 0:25:25.600 down and I try to log in, and I know 0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:28.840 I won't be able to, but I do it anyway. Um. Thankfully, 0:25:28.880 --> 0:25:32.760 I had thought to download as much of my materials 0:25:32.760 --> 0:25:35.879 as I could prior to this, only my personal device, 0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:39.040 so I am still able to create lessons. Lands been 0:25:39.080 --> 0:25:42.880 making some very cool social study slides. I'm I'm so 0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:46.960 sure that my students are gonna love lots of cool 0:25:46.960 --> 0:25:50.880 assignments for them to do. To um. But yeah, like 0:25:51.280 --> 0:25:54.000 this is a lockout and LORI keeps starting this word 0:25:54.040 --> 0:25:57.080 like illegal work stoppage around. It's not a work stoppage. 0:25:57.080 --> 0:26:01.199 We are actively working. She has legally it is in 0:26:01.240 --> 0:26:03.600 our contract that she can't lock us out and she 0:26:03.680 --> 0:26:08.600 did so. Yeah. So yeah, everyone's doing each other and 0:26:08.680 --> 0:26:11.720 saying illegal. But I know which side is right. Yeah, yeah, 0:26:12.240 --> 0:26:14.520 you know. I I am not an enormal perspector of 0:26:14.560 --> 0:26:17.840 the law, but like this is this is both is 0:26:17.880 --> 0:26:20.040 one of the rare occasions where the thing that is 0:26:20.080 --> 0:26:24.000 happening is both illegal and also just wrong. The reporting 0:26:24.040 --> 0:26:28.679 on this just has not gotten the actual fundamental thing 0:26:28.720 --> 0:26:31.160 which is happening here, which is a lockout, and it's 0:26:32.400 --> 0:26:35.639 enormously frustrating a lot of ways because you know, and 0:26:35.600 --> 0:26:38.000 I'd say this, okay, so the like local media reporting 0:26:38.040 --> 0:26:40.840 has been a lot better, but any like any national 0:26:40.840 --> 0:26:44.639 coverage has just I've seen it's just been like, yeah, 0:26:44.880 --> 0:26:46.640 it's gonna be it. For part one of this interview, 0:26:46.680 --> 0:26:48.760 come back tomorrow for part two, when we will talk 0:26:48.880 --> 0:26:51.080 more about what's actually going on inside the schools and 0:26:51.240 --> 0:26:54.159 you know, generally do the media's job for them, because 0:26:54.520 --> 0:26:56.720 lord knows, they're not actually getting it right. You can 0:26:56.720 --> 0:27:00.120 find us that Happened here pod on Twitter and Instagram 0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:03.639 as usual, or you cannot find us. In fact, I 0:27:04.160 --> 0:27:06.480 encourage you not to find us, because good Lord, the 0:27:06.560 --> 0:27:17.160 arrand is bad. Goodbye, hello, and welcome to our show. 0:27:17.280 --> 0:27:19.439 I'm Zoe de Chanelle and I'm so excited to be 0:27:19.520 --> 0:27:22.119 joined by my friends and cast mates Hannah Simone and 0:27:22.200 --> 0:27:25.920 Lamar and Morris to recap our hit television series New Girl. 0:27:26.240 --> 0:27:29.119 Join us every Monday on the Welcome to Our Show podcast, 0:27:29.200 --> 0:27:31.679 where we'll share behind the scenes stories of your favorite 0:27:31.720 --> 0:27:34.720 New Girl episodes, reveal the truth behind the legendary game 0:27:34.760 --> 0:27:38.119 True American, and discuss how this show got made with 0:27:38.160 --> 0:27:40.800 the writer's, guest stars, and directors who made the show 0:27:40.840 --> 0:27:43.280 so special. Fans have been begging us to do a 0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:46.040 New Girl recap for years, and we finally made a 0:27:46.040 --> 0:27:49.800 podcast where we answer all your burning questions like is 0:27:49.840 --> 0:27:52.680 there really a bear in every episode of New Girl. 0:27:53.119 --> 0:27:57.000 Plus each week you'll hear hilarious stories like this at 0:27:57.040 --> 0:27:58.879 the end when he says you got some schmid on 0:27:58.920 --> 0:28:01.800 your face. I feel like I pitched that job. I 0:28:01.840 --> 0:28:03.560 believe that I feel like I did. I'm not on 0:28:03.600 --> 0:28:05.520 a thousand percent. I want to say that was I 0:28:05.840 --> 0:28:08.000 tossed that one out. Listen to the Welcome to Our 0:28:08.040 --> 0:28:11.399 Show podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 0:28:11.560 --> 0:28:16.280 or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Colleen with Join 0:28:16.359 --> 0:28:19.199 me the host of Eating Wall Broke podcast while I 0:28:19.200 --> 0:28:23.040 eat a meal created by self made entrepreneurs, influencers, and 0:28:23.119 --> 0:28:25.720 celebrities over a meal they once eight when they were broke. 0:28:25.920 --> 0:28:29.120 Today I have the lovely aj Crimson, the official Princess 0:28:29.240 --> 0:28:33.480 of comfin Asia Kidding, and Asia, this is the professor. 0:28:33.600 --> 0:28:36.000 We're here on Eating Will Broke, and today I'm gonna 0:28:36.040 --> 0:28:38.800 break down my meal that got me through a time 0:28:38.800 --> 0:28:41.440 when I was broken. Listen to Eating Wall Broke on 0:28:41.480 --> 0:28:44.520 the I Heart Radio app, on Apple podcast or wherever 0:28:44.560 --> 0:28:50.080 you get your podcasts. Executive producer Paris Hilton brings back 0:28:50.120 --> 0:28:54.040 the hit podcast How Men Think. And that's good news 0:28:54.120 --> 0:28:58.160 for anyone that is confused by men, which is basically everyone. 0:28:58.400 --> 0:29:00.680 Get an inside look at what goes on in the 0:29:00.720 --> 0:29:04.160 mind of men from the men themselves. It's real talk, 0:29:04.520 --> 0:29:08.200 straight from the source. How Men Think podcast is exactly 0:29:08.240 --> 0:29:10.200 what we need to figure them out. It's going to 0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:13.520 be fun and formative and probably a bit scary at 0:29:13.560 --> 0:29:17.000 times because we're literally going inside the minds of men. 0:29:17.400 --> 0:29:19.600 As much as we like to think all men are 0:29:19.640 --> 0:29:23.960 the same, they're actually very different. Each week, a celebrity 0:29:23.960 --> 0:29:27.800 guest host provides honest advice in his area of expertise. 0:29:28.000 --> 0:29:30.040 When I agreed to do this reboot, I had a 0:29:30.040 --> 0:29:35.120 few conditions. No sugarcoating, no mind games, and absolutely no 0:29:35.520 --> 0:29:38.920 man splaining. Men are hard enough to understand without the 0:29:38.920 --> 0:29:41.840 mind games. Listen to How Men Think on the I 0:29:41.960 --> 0:29:45.880 Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. 0:29:52.360 --> 0:29:54.920 Welcome to It Could Happen Here a podcast about things 0:29:54.960 --> 0:29:58.400 going badly and falling apart. And today we are back 0:29:58.440 --> 0:30:00.840 with part two for interview with lou See about how 0:30:00.960 --> 0:30:03.520 the Chicago Public school system is falling apart under the 0:30:03.560 --> 0:30:06.720 relentless assault of cruelty and malice and incompetence by the 0:30:06.800 --> 0:30:11.120 Chicago Public Schools and by the Mayor, LORDE. Lightfoot. Enjoy 0:30:11.320 --> 0:30:13.760 There's everything I want to talk about a bit, which 0:30:13.840 --> 0:30:16.840 is when you've been back, when you've been sort of 0:30:16.840 --> 0:30:19.480 teaching in in these really like sort of like what 0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:21.240 what does it actually like to teach in these customs? 0:30:21.280 --> 0:30:24.400 And like, you know, how how safe actually is it? So? 0:30:24.520 --> 0:30:26.760 I mean I've been in a lot of different environments. 0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:29.880 When I was teaching middle schoolers, I did not feel 0:30:29.960 --> 0:30:35.360 super COVID safe. Um they are. I don't know if 0:30:35.400 --> 0:30:38.400 people know this about middle school age kids. They love 0:30:38.520 --> 0:30:41.240 to touch each other, especially boys. They love to like wrestle. 0:30:41.600 --> 0:30:44.440 There was putting each other in headlocks. I am constantly 0:30:44.480 --> 0:30:48.480 having to just be like six feet six ft or 0:30:48.520 --> 0:30:51.560 three ft or whatever. CDC has said. We are now. Um, 0:30:51.600 --> 0:30:53.880 they don't put their masks on. They put their masks 0:30:53.960 --> 0:30:57.040 in their mouths all the time, like in their mouths. Um. 0:30:57.120 --> 0:31:00.920 Oh no, there's they're constantly finding like weird little excuses 0:31:00.920 --> 0:31:02.520 to have their mask off. Like they'll just sit there 0:31:02.560 --> 0:31:04.680 with like like they're allowed to have water bottles because 0:31:04.680 --> 0:31:06.600 they can't use the water huntins. They'll just sit there 0:31:06.600 --> 0:31:10.520 with like a straw in their mouth for like extended 0:31:10.560 --> 0:31:12.240 amounts of time. And I'm like, I need you to 0:31:12.280 --> 0:31:14.360 put your mask up, take quicksips and put your mask up. 0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:17.680 And they're like I'm drinking, like I'm going to be 0:31:17.720 --> 0:31:21.400 drinking at the end of this day, but like, I know, 0:31:22.160 --> 0:31:24.240 take a quick sip, put your mask back up. It's 0:31:24.280 --> 0:31:28.120 really really important for your safety. Um. And then I 0:31:28.160 --> 0:31:30.800 have other kids who are absolutely straight up like terrified 0:31:30.840 --> 0:31:35.480 of this because like they've lost parents, theyve lost grandparents. Um, 0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:39.120 it's it's really scary. UM. At the high school level, 0:31:39.160 --> 0:31:40.960 it's been a little better. High school kids are a 0:31:41.000 --> 0:31:43.880 little more rational. UM, but I still have a few 0:31:43.960 --> 0:31:46.760 who are just like their masks are down around their 0:31:46.800 --> 0:31:49.520 chins all the time, we're under their nose and I'm 0:31:49.560 --> 0:31:52.520 I'll like several times of class fear, Like, okay, time 0:31:52.560 --> 0:31:54.479 for everybody to do a mask check. Make sure your 0:31:54.480 --> 0:31:58.240 mask is covering your nose, your mouth, your chin. Um, 0:31:58.280 --> 0:32:00.000 I'll remind them like I have a spouse at home 0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:03.560 who has an underlying condition and like, please don't have 0:32:03.640 --> 0:32:06.600 me bring home a deadly disease to him. That would 0:32:06.640 --> 0:32:10.200 really not be great. Um, most of them are pretty good, 0:32:10.240 --> 0:32:12.640 but still they're getting sick. Like I think we had 0:32:12.640 --> 0:32:16.800 like forty kids out of my building one Monday, and 0:32:17.640 --> 0:32:20.040 like twenty eight staff members or something like that. We're 0:32:20.040 --> 0:32:24.760 out and we had one sub which is the other 0:32:25.000 --> 0:32:29.040 That's the other issue is this isn't really a question of, um, 0:32:29.080 --> 0:32:31.880 if we should go remote. It's a question of when 0:32:31.960 --> 0:32:34.600 will we be forced to go remote. And we can 0:32:34.640 --> 0:32:37.920 either do that now before everybody has gotten sick and 0:32:37.920 --> 0:32:41.080 wait for this to subside and get some better mitigation 0:32:41.120 --> 0:32:44.560 strategies in place, or we can do it after everybody 0:32:44.600 --> 0:32:46.360 is sick, and then we're going to be scrambling to 0:32:46.360 --> 0:32:48.840 figure it out and also be sick at the same time. 0:32:48.960 --> 0:32:51.680 I don't really see how that makes any sense. Yeah, 0:32:51.880 --> 0:32:55.680 that's the part of this, And I've just like I 0:32:55.800 --> 0:32:58.760 just like I don't get it, Like I just like fundamentally, 0:32:58.800 --> 0:33:01.200 there's there's like a bench break where it's like I 0:33:01.520 --> 0:33:07.440 don't understand why like Lightfoot and CPS are so insistance 0:33:07.480 --> 0:33:11.320 about not going remote, Like I get that, like, yeah, 0:33:11.400 --> 0:33:14.200 it's it's hard on kids, but it's like it's it's 0:33:14.360 --> 0:33:20.200 you know, it is the years two Like no matter 0:33:20.240 --> 0:33:23.040 what you do, it's it's hard on the kids, and 0:33:23.040 --> 0:33:28.480 it's like, yeah, I also I wonder how much of 0:33:28.520 --> 0:33:30.520 it is the remote learning that's hard on them, and 0:33:30.520 --> 0:33:34.040 how much of it is just the um everything around 0:33:34.080 --> 0:33:36.920 them is crashing and following and burning around their ears 0:33:36.960 --> 0:33:40.479 because um, the messaging that they've been getting is that 0:33:40.520 --> 0:33:43.680 they don't matter, They're not important, their safety isn't important, 0:33:43.880 --> 0:33:48.120 their families aren't important, and um, some of them like 0:33:48.200 --> 0:33:50.560 want to be remote. A lot of them, a lot 0:33:50.600 --> 0:33:52.280 of their parents want them to be remote. They're like, 0:33:52.320 --> 0:33:55.320 you know, it's not as good, but at least I 0:33:55.360 --> 0:33:59.280 feel safe. Some of them even thrived in remote like 0:33:59.320 --> 0:34:01.600 actually did pretty well. And I really wish that it 0:34:01.640 --> 0:34:04.040 was just an option for those students who actually did 0:34:04.120 --> 0:34:06.080 well with it, that they could just like if we 0:34:06.120 --> 0:34:08.360 even ended up with like a third of our students 0:34:08.440 --> 0:34:12.200 choosing it, it would mitigate this so much because that's 0:34:12.200 --> 0:34:14.680 a third of the people. Not they're to spread around. 0:34:15.320 --> 0:34:22.440 Um So how how big? How big your class sizes are? Um? 0:34:22.560 --> 0:34:25.000 Right now the building I'm in now, I have like 0:34:26.560 --> 0:34:32.080 thirty in some my It was kind of similar at 0:34:32.080 --> 0:34:35.600 the last building, Like they're in that range. I have 0:34:35.880 --> 0:34:37.840 like always have like one or two that are like 0:34:37.880 --> 0:34:41.440 the twenty or below that are usually um special education 0:34:41.480 --> 0:34:47.360 like inclusion classes where I have co teacher. Um. But yeah, 0:34:47.360 --> 0:34:49.640 it's you know, some of them are pretty crowded, and 0:34:49.680 --> 0:34:53.239 it really varies by school. Like there's definitely schools that 0:34:53.360 --> 0:34:57.840 have over thirty kids in a room, um and don't 0:34:57.840 --> 0:34:59.799 have the staff because it's just that's the other thing 0:34:59.880 --> 0:35:02.879 is they keep talking about. You know, I keep seeing 0:35:02.920 --> 0:35:05.080 people be like fire all the teachers, and I'm like, 0:35:05.680 --> 0:35:09.600 good luck, Like, yes, is chronically understaffed. What are you 0:35:09.600 --> 0:35:14.000 going to do? Yeah? I think again, like this job 0:35:14.120 --> 0:35:19.960 is really hard, Like it's being a teacher. Yeah, it's hard. 0:35:20.840 --> 0:35:24.440 It's exhausting, and it's very very rewarding. Like when it's good, 0:35:24.520 --> 0:35:31.239 it's great. When it's bad it is miserable. Um. So yeah, 0:35:31.280 --> 0:35:34.080 and like what it looks like and I mean that's 0:35:34.200 --> 0:35:36.480 you know, it depends, it really depends on what school 0:35:36.520 --> 0:35:39.360 you're in. Um I think everybody can agree that it 0:35:39.520 --> 0:35:43.600 is difficult right now. Um So we we have like 0:35:43.640 --> 0:35:48.640 air purifiers going and masks on, and I cannot understand 0:35:48.680 --> 0:35:50.040 what my kids are saying a lot of the time, 0:35:50.160 --> 0:35:52.560 like I do not know, and they speak so quietly 0:35:53.840 --> 0:35:56.279 like I need you to shout it, say it like 0:35:56.320 --> 0:36:00.759 you mean whatever it is. So you know, that's been 0:36:00.840 --> 0:36:05.879 challenging and frustrating and exhausting. But um the worst thing 0:36:05.920 --> 0:36:08.160 ever is finding out that one of my students is sick. 0:36:08.680 --> 0:36:11.000 Like I hate when they're I hate it when they hurt. 0:36:11.080 --> 0:36:13.480 Like whenever that one of them is hurting, I feel bad. 0:36:14.160 --> 0:36:17.040 And knowing that their home sick is it's it's really 0:36:17.120 --> 0:36:20.800 upsetting and just it's you know, it's distressing for teachers 0:36:20.800 --> 0:36:23.040 to know that their kids are struggling in a way 0:36:23.080 --> 0:36:25.359 like that. Um So that's you know, we want them 0:36:25.400 --> 0:36:29.239 to be safe, you know, like these kids, it's like 0:36:29.560 --> 0:36:31.279 and this is this is true of the staff too. 0:36:31.280 --> 0:36:33.719 When you're when you're getting sick, it's like, yeah, like 0:36:33.800 --> 0:36:36.200 some of these people will be okay, but enormous numbers 0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:37.799 of people are like so, man, these people are gonna die. 0:36:37.840 --> 0:36:39.040 So these people, a lot of these people are going 0:36:39.080 --> 0:36:42.479 to get disabled. Um yeah, I mean the long term 0:36:42.800 --> 0:36:45.839 long terfects been really bad. And you know, one off, 0:36:45.920 --> 0:36:50.200 if people remember we we did an episode with when 0:36:50.239 --> 0:36:52.160 Our Friends use a nurse and like, yeah, like he 0:36:52.160 --> 0:36:55.120 he had long COVID. His long COVID was like he 0:36:55.120 --> 0:36:57.920 he couldn't do more than like like getting out of 0:36:57.920 --> 0:36:59.880 bed or like like walking across the room, which is 0:37:00.000 --> 0:37:02.640 to be battle day. Because if there there's you know, 0:37:02.640 --> 0:37:06.200 there there's an enormous range of sort of like of 0:37:06.200 --> 0:37:10.200 of long COVID side effects and yeah, it's like it's 0:37:10.960 --> 0:37:14.600 it's it's like CPS is just childe of schools. It's 0:37:14.640 --> 0:37:20.319 just like they're getting people killed. Yeah, it's and it's 0:37:20.400 --> 0:37:22.319 you know, that's like the question like they keep talking 0:37:22.360 --> 0:37:25.560 about percentages and I'm like, these are human beings. Every 0:37:25.560 --> 0:37:28.360 one of the numbers is a human. So when you 0:37:28.440 --> 0:37:31.640 say like only you know, point whatever percent are going 0:37:31.719 --> 0:37:36.960 to be long term affected, like, Okay, those are people. 0:37:37.760 --> 0:37:40.880 Can we stop like dehumanizing them with these las like 0:37:40.960 --> 0:37:46.520 data points and um as for like the issue with 0:37:46.600 --> 0:37:50.440 like how like kids are less affected by or whatever 0:37:50.560 --> 0:37:52.960 like the fact is like the more we allow this 0:37:53.200 --> 0:37:56.479 to spread around, the more variants we're going to see. 0:37:56.520 --> 0:37:59.879 And we don't know that the next variant isn't going 0:37:59.880 --> 0:38:03.280 to be the one that is really significantly harmful to children. 0:38:03.920 --> 0:38:07.040 And we are basically turning our schools into these peatree 0:38:07.040 --> 0:38:11.480 dishes where this thing can mutate and become stronger. And 0:38:11.480 --> 0:38:14.840 now we have vaccinated people who are in that mix, 0:38:14.920 --> 0:38:19.880 and it's becoming resistant to the vaccine. So you know, 0:38:19.920 --> 0:38:22.319 I'm a social stade teacher, not a science teacher, but 0:38:22.360 --> 0:38:25.640 this seems like a bad move to me. Yeah, yeah, 0:38:25.680 --> 0:38:29.680 it's I don't know, it's it's just sort of heartbreaking 0:38:29.680 --> 0:38:32.720 a lot of ways. I mean, it's just like they've 0:38:32.760 --> 0:38:36.080 just decided that, you know. And again like I don't 0:38:36.080 --> 0:38:38.200 I don't know why Lightfoot's doing this. Like maybe it's 0:38:38.200 --> 0:38:40.040 just like she wants to share up her base thing 0:38:40.080 --> 0:38:42.840 because she's trying to build a base among like the 0:38:43.040 --> 0:38:47.799 just like rich, weirddoor ciders or something. But like it's 0:38:48.000 --> 0:38:51.319 she's a small business person. That's always when people are 0:38:51.320 --> 0:38:55.360 the small business owners who don't want to close schools 0:38:55.400 --> 0:38:59.360 because then you know, their workers won't come in. And 0:39:00.840 --> 0:39:03.399 you know, I want to feel sorry for them, but 0:39:03.640 --> 0:39:06.759 I know, I don't know, Like I was like fuck you, 0:39:06.920 --> 0:39:09.920 because there's also a lot of small business owners who 0:39:09.960 --> 0:39:12.560 have been very supportive of us. We had uh there's 0:39:12.600 --> 0:39:16.400 like a taco place offering free burritos to us, Like 0:39:16.480 --> 0:39:20.160 I really appreciate that. Like there's a community who understand that, 0:39:20.239 --> 0:39:22.879 like the lives of our children are so much more 0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:27.400 important than you missing two weeks of profit, Like you 0:39:27.480 --> 0:39:29.120 will figure that out. And if you want to bail 0:39:29.120 --> 0:39:33.080 out businesses, um, we can figure that out. But right now. 0:39:33.120 --> 0:39:37.719 And also, like is is saying like we have we 0:39:37.800 --> 0:39:41.480 aren't we refused to do anything that might be inconvenient 0:39:42.000 --> 0:39:46.560 for business owners, Like what is that? Yeah, and it's 0:39:46.560 --> 0:39:48.439 like it's like yeah, so you know. And also yeah, 0:39:48.480 --> 0:39:50.239 but like business owners did get bailed out, like they 0:39:50.280 --> 0:39:52.320 got they got they got zero present loans. Most of 0:39:52.320 --> 0:39:55.279 those loans got written off. And meanwhile, yeah, it's like, well, okay, 0:39:55.280 --> 0:39:56.719 what did life to do with the COVID money? She 0:39:56.719 --> 0:39:59.000 she gave it to the cops. And oh, hey, guess 0:39:59.040 --> 0:40:01.359 guess who's also just a rapperants better of COVID. Oh 0:40:01.440 --> 0:40:07.160 yeah it's the cops. Yeah, resisted vaccines, the most the cops. 0:40:07.440 --> 0:40:09.480 I mean actually there there there there is one funny 0:40:09.520 --> 0:40:11.759 thing which I'm actually very excited about, which is that 0:40:11.800 --> 0:40:14.920 the cops are doing they're having their first so they 0:40:15.040 --> 0:40:18.240 have a new class graduating. But for the police academies, 0:40:18.239 --> 0:40:21.200 which is really bad, and there's a whole well, one 0:40:21.239 --> 0:40:23.120 of one of the like Lightfoot's things was that there 0:40:23.120 --> 0:40:26.120 there was a huge campaign against building more police academies 0:40:26.160 --> 0:40:28.800 because you know, everyone hates child police apartment. They're awful. 0:40:29.280 --> 0:40:31.600 And if you have a hundred billion dollars for a 0:40:31.600 --> 0:40:34.160 new police academy, why or a hundred million or whatever 0:40:34.200 --> 0:40:37.960 it was, why can't you put some better ventilation in 0:40:38.000 --> 0:40:40.560 the schools? Yeah, well it's gonna yeah, because because because 0:40:40.719 --> 0:40:45.160 like the CPD are like basically feudal lords. They have nights, 0:40:45.200 --> 0:40:47.920 they go out, they can shoot you, like they rob you. 0:40:48.160 --> 0:40:51.480 They just like any any any large number of like 0:40:51.560 --> 0:40:54.080 black kids on the streets, Like if you just have 0:40:54.120 --> 0:40:56.839 like fifteen kids walking around, like eight quad cars will 0:40:56.880 --> 0:40:59.560 show up. And you know that there was Lightfoot was 0:40:59.600 --> 0:41:01.719 like not her like one of her campaignings big of anything. 0:41:01.719 --> 0:41:02.960 It's like no, no no, we're gonna make sure we build 0:41:03.000 --> 0:41:05.680 these academies. And but so they're they're having their first 0:41:05.880 --> 0:41:10.479 like rounded that they've been having trouble recruiting because good. Yeah, 0:41:10.520 --> 0:41:12.840 and and they're they're about to have their first police 0:41:12.840 --> 0:41:15.880 Academy exam and it's gonna be in person, and I 0:41:15.920 --> 0:41:17.920 am this is the only one are the few is 0:41:18.200 --> 0:41:20.719 this jaire Bosonaro where it's like I am rooting for 0:41:20.760 --> 0:41:24.480 the virus here, like please God save us from these cops. 0:41:25.000 --> 0:41:27.680 But yeah, it's it's but they're just bring at home 0:41:27.719 --> 0:41:31.759 and spread it around. Yeah, yeah, that's a sad thing. 0:41:32.080 --> 0:41:37.440 It's it's just it's grotesque. And yeah, it's been this 0:41:37.480 --> 0:41:40.279 thing where I'm like watching, like the school system is 0:41:41.040 --> 0:41:43.239 just throwing their hands up and saying, we don't care. 0:41:43.640 --> 0:41:47.960 We're done. The health system, the health care system is 0:41:48.160 --> 0:41:52.680 like crashing and burning all around us. Nurses are quitting, 0:41:53.560 --> 0:41:57.120 hospitals are like we don't have room for more patients, 0:41:57.320 --> 0:42:00.879 Like did you have a cancer treatment schedules? Sorry? Did 0:42:00.880 --> 0:42:03.320 you have a surgery scheduled? Sorry? I just saw somebody 0:42:03.320 --> 0:42:07.359 on Twitter saying she um has a brain tumor and 0:42:07.440 --> 0:42:09.279 she's supposed to have a surgery for it and she 0:42:09.320 --> 0:42:12.160 can't now because of COVID. Because they have no beds. 0:42:12.400 --> 0:42:15.080 There aren't any, And you're telling me that the right 0:42:15.120 --> 0:42:17.920 move right now is to keep the schools open, which 0:42:18.000 --> 0:42:24.200 has always been in every every pandemic that we've ever had. 0:42:24.600 --> 0:42:28.960 Schools and hospitals and prisons are like the place where 0:42:29.680 --> 0:42:32.640 the whatever diseases spreads. And I know we've been claiming 0:42:32.760 --> 0:42:35.439 that like there's not been spread in schools, but we've 0:42:35.719 --> 0:42:37.520 now seen the data that there, in fact is a 0:42:37.600 --> 0:42:40.799 huge amount. Which I've been like screaming about this since 0:42:40.840 --> 0:42:45.759 we started that their contact racing models are they're absurd. 0:42:45.760 --> 0:42:50.759 There are like kaka esk Like basically, um so, we 0:42:50.840 --> 0:42:54.759 start from the assumption that everybody is six ft apart 0:42:54.760 --> 0:42:59.279 and wearing their mask at all times, which it's not. 0:42:59.360 --> 0:43:02.200 It's not even it's not even physically possible in a 0:43:02.239 --> 0:43:04.759 lot of classrooms for that to be happening. And then too, 0:43:05.200 --> 0:43:08.799 we start with the assumption that those things work, and 0:43:08.880 --> 0:43:12.280 so you'll get a call from a contact tracer that's like, hey, 0:43:12.719 --> 0:43:18.839 um on, you know, like last Tuesday, Tuesday of last week, 0:43:19.200 --> 0:43:22.080 were you within six ft of any of your eighth 0:43:22.080 --> 0:43:24.640 graders for more than fifteen minutes? Funck? If I know 0:43:25.560 --> 0:43:27.640 Tuesday of last week was I near an eighth grader 0:43:27.680 --> 0:43:30.640 for fifteen minutes. I don't know. I have no idea 0:43:30.880 --> 0:43:34.200 even if, like even if I did know, what difference 0:43:34.239 --> 0:43:37.319 does it make. It is an aerosolized virus. It is 0:43:37.440 --> 0:43:40.160 in the air, and the more you sit in classrooms, 0:43:40.480 --> 0:43:43.880 the more it accumulates. Like we have seen like studies 0:43:43.920 --> 0:43:47.480 about um this, We've seen studies about how CEO two 0:43:48.080 --> 0:43:51.399 accumulates in the air when there's crowds. We know that 0:43:51.400 --> 0:43:54.759 stuff accumulates like that in classrooms, very very quickly. And 0:43:54.800 --> 0:43:57.680 you're gonna tell me that as long as I wasn't 0:43:57.719 --> 0:44:01.640 within fifteen or within six feet for more than fifteen 0:44:01.800 --> 0:44:06.640 continuous minutes, not even like um, not even fifteen minutes 0:44:06.719 --> 0:44:09.719 like added up throughout the day, just fifteen minutes continuously, 0:44:10.160 --> 0:44:12.400 I'm not going to get a virus. Are you shipping me? 0:44:12.600 --> 0:44:15.520 Like that makes no sense? And so then if and 0:44:15.600 --> 0:44:17.480 if and if you're answer to those questions are no, 0:44:18.880 --> 0:44:22.760 because whatever you were following the rules, then they're like, Okay, 0:44:22.840 --> 0:44:25.759 you got COVID somewhere else, it wasn't at school. Yeah, 0:44:25.880 --> 0:44:28.600 no it doesn't. Yeah, it's nonsense. It's like I go 0:44:28.840 --> 0:44:30.759 to work and I go home. I don't do anything else, 0:44:30.800 --> 0:44:33.240 so I don't know where else is coming from, like yeah, 0:44:33.600 --> 0:44:35.839 like and I also just want to do a brief 0:44:35.840 --> 0:44:38.440 digression about like okay, so like like I like I 0:44:39.040 --> 0:44:41.080 went to like a like a pretty good like like 0:44:41.200 --> 0:44:43.960 a pretty well like a very well funded like a 0:44:44.080 --> 0:44:48.280 Charicago area school. It's like, okay, those places, those places 0:44:48.360 --> 0:44:51.200 ventilation sucks. Like again, like again, I went to a 0:44:51.280 --> 0:44:53.160 very well funded school. Like we had a we had 0:44:53.239 --> 0:44:58.000 drowned dead rats falling out of the ceiling like it was. 0:44:58.040 --> 0:45:02.200 It was incredibly my my, my great high school memories 0:45:02.239 --> 0:45:05.440 with my principle just like running full tilt pushing a 0:45:05.520 --> 0:45:12.840 trash can because dead drop. See my god, my school 0:45:12.880 --> 0:45:16.480 was wild. We had how bad it was like a 0:45:16.560 --> 0:45:18.279 kind of a chemistry teacher let a kid set off 0:45:18.280 --> 0:45:21.200 a smoke bomb like that they'd made like in a classroom, 0:45:21.239 --> 0:45:23.960 but it didn't work, so it just like actually blew up. 0:45:25.440 --> 0:45:28.920 It was a time. But like like this croc based learning, Okay, 0:45:29.400 --> 0:45:31.919 you got to light the school on fire. But like 0:45:31.920 --> 0:45:34.200 like this is a this is like yeah, like these 0:45:34.200 --> 0:45:39.120 schools are not like they're not yea. I worked in 0:45:39.160 --> 0:45:40.960 at the beginning of the year was a hundred years old. 0:45:41.000 --> 0:45:43.520 It was built in nineteen twenty and there was always 0:45:43.520 --> 0:45:46.720 this like sewage smell around the bathroom because the pipes 0:45:46.760 --> 0:45:49.840 were messed up. It was weird like and you couldn't 0:45:49.880 --> 0:45:52.240 fix it. I think it was I was the second 0:45:52.320 --> 0:45:54.680 or third time by building lived on fire. Like we 0:45:54.760 --> 0:45:56.000 there was a there was a whole thing in the 0:45:56.000 --> 0:45:58.759 building that was made of asbestos and they just had 0:45:58.840 --> 0:46:00.919 left it because it was like, oh, isn't exposed. Yeah, 0:46:01.160 --> 0:46:05.000 still have over Like I get like I went to 0:46:05.120 --> 0:46:08.319 like a good, well funded one of these schools, Like 0:46:08.880 --> 0:46:12.359 it's I think there's there's like there's there's these two 0:46:12.360 --> 0:46:15.439 there's two things. I think it is. Interestingly, there's when 0:46:15.480 --> 0:46:17.320 you like talk to like the people who want the 0:46:17.360 --> 0:46:20.319 schools to open back up, right, they'll they're also talking 0:46:20.320 --> 0:46:23.200 about like oh no, it's fine. Everyone wears masks, everyone's vaccinated, 0:46:23.480 --> 0:46:26.520 everyone succeeds. Like no, no, they're not like this. This 0:46:26.560 --> 0:46:28.880 is how it works in this like imaginary play world 0:46:28.960 --> 0:46:33.120 you've created. Have you ever met a child? Like have 0:46:33.239 --> 0:46:36.120 you met your own children? Like oh and that's the 0:46:36.160 --> 0:46:37.799 best is like, well, I've been having my kids wear 0:46:37.840 --> 0:46:40.120 a mask like you have your full of ship. Okay, 0:46:40.200 --> 0:46:44.120 because I hold that kid to put their masks on 0:46:44.280 --> 0:46:47.879 like fifteen times yesterday and I love them beautiful face. 0:46:48.640 --> 0:46:50.360 I hope they get to show it off someday, but 0:46:50.520 --> 0:46:55.480 right now, cooped up, please, I'm begging you. And I'm like, 0:46:55.640 --> 0:46:58.560 I'm not like that teacher who's really authoritarian, Like I've 0:46:58.600 --> 0:47:01.480 never been good at like writing kids up and getting 0:47:01.480 --> 0:47:04.160 on them for stuff because it's just like, I don't know, 0:47:04.200 --> 0:47:06.799 I hate doing that. I hate being that person. So 0:47:07.560 --> 0:47:10.000 it's been like, really, it's like a struggle. It's like 0:47:10.520 --> 0:47:12.960 am I going to be the person who nags them 0:47:13.000 --> 0:47:17.319 every five seconds? Or am I gonna be um the 0:47:17.360 --> 0:47:19.560 teacher that they like and want to learn from? Like 0:47:20.719 --> 0:47:25.640 you know, this isn't sustainable. So but you're asking like 0:47:25.760 --> 0:47:28.600 the attitudes of people who want to open schools back up, 0:47:28.640 --> 0:47:33.239 and I it's it's hard because I have talked to 0:47:33.280 --> 0:47:37.120 parents who are worried, but they are also very upset 0:47:37.200 --> 0:47:42.479 because they see that their kids are struggling. And I 0:47:42.560 --> 0:47:44.320 really do feel for them on that, like I really 0:47:44.320 --> 0:47:46.560 really do. It is hard to see a kid struggle, 0:47:47.120 --> 0:47:50.960 but it is harder, I think to see a kid sick. 0:47:51.480 --> 0:47:55.279 That is really hard, and it's just this, like there 0:47:55.280 --> 0:47:59.360 are ways that we can overcome the difficulties of remote learning, 0:47:59.400 --> 0:48:02.080 Like we we can find ways to give them the 0:48:02.120 --> 0:48:07.200 emotional support, Um, we can find better socializing outlets. But 0:48:07.680 --> 0:48:12.279 I don't know how we fix like you've become very 0:48:12.320 --> 0:48:15.920 ill and your body isn't going to recover in the 0:48:15.920 --> 0:48:17.719 way that you thought it would, Like, I don't I 0:48:17.800 --> 0:48:21.040 can't fix that. So that's something I've heard from other 0:48:21.120 --> 0:48:24.640 teachers that like the preparagromout learning stuff like is harder 0:48:24.680 --> 0:48:28.680 and takes more work than Yeah, it does. It's it's 0:48:28.760 --> 0:48:31.560 really rough. I don't like doing it. I want to 0:48:31.560 --> 0:48:34.560 be in the classroom, but yeah, and I just I 0:48:34.600 --> 0:48:36.960 just want to like once again, yell at all of 0:48:36.960 --> 0:48:39.160 the people who are like the teachers are lazy and 0:48:39.160 --> 0:48:43.319 it's like no, people like they're like, yeah, like you're 0:48:43.400 --> 0:48:48.040 you are advocating to do more work because that's that's 0:48:48.200 --> 0:48:51.640 the thing that will keep the kids safe, and it's yeah. 0:48:51.760 --> 0:48:53.759 I think a lot of people don't understand like the 0:48:53.880 --> 0:48:57.239 behind the scenes how the sausage gets made of a classroom. 0:48:57.360 --> 0:48:59.239 But I think a lot of people have this idea 0:48:59.320 --> 0:49:02.960 that like we are given curriculum and plans and materials 0:49:02.960 --> 0:49:07.200 pre made, and sometimes that's true. It depends on your subject. 0:49:07.280 --> 0:49:09.759 Mine is social size is not a subject where that 0:49:09.800 --> 0:49:12.120 happens very much, which is part of why I like 0:49:12.239 --> 0:49:16.520 it because I like to be creative. Um. So like 0:49:16.600 --> 0:49:20.759 my week looks like, UM, there are a lot of 0:49:20.760 --> 0:49:25.040 hours after school where I am sitting down, I'm looking 0:49:25.080 --> 0:49:28.000 at the standards that I need to teach, the topics 0:49:28.000 --> 0:49:30.960 that I need to teach, and I'm researching it and 0:49:31.040 --> 0:49:34.160 learning it and finding a way to teach that to 0:49:34.640 --> 0:49:38.520 kids who don't have the same like baseline knowledge that 0:49:38.600 --> 0:49:42.520 I have. UM. And then I'm creating like an activity 0:49:42.600 --> 0:49:47.200 for them. I'm creating, um, you're I'm finding like material 0:49:47.400 --> 0:49:50.320 sources and like videos and stuff that they can watch 0:49:50.320 --> 0:49:52.240 that are going to help them, or things to read. 0:49:52.600 --> 0:49:56.640 I'm modifying those things for the kids who have um, 0:49:56.680 --> 0:49:59.960 you know, learning differences. I'm translating some of those things 0:50:00.040 --> 0:50:01.920 in the Spanish for kids who don't really read very 0:50:01.920 --> 0:50:04.319 well in English yet. So, like that's a ton of 0:50:04.320 --> 0:50:06.920 work on its own. And then when we switch to remote, 0:50:06.920 --> 0:50:08.120 we have to figure out how to do all of 0:50:08.160 --> 0:50:12.080 that on Google Classroom, where now it has to all 0:50:12.080 --> 0:50:16.680 be typed like or you know, like how do I figure, like, 0:50:16.719 --> 0:50:20.719 how do I do a group project online? How do 0:50:20.800 --> 0:50:23.279 I let them do something creative that isn't just sitting 0:50:23.320 --> 0:50:28.799 here answering questions on a worksheet. That's hard and we've 0:50:28.840 --> 0:50:30.600 been really good at it, and I've found all kinds 0:50:30.600 --> 0:50:33.160 of really cool tools to do that with. But it's 0:50:33.239 --> 0:50:36.160 so much work. And it's work that I'm willing to 0:50:36.200 --> 0:50:40.000 do because I care about my job. I enjoy my work. 0:50:40.080 --> 0:50:43.560 I love my students, but um, you know, and I 0:50:43.560 --> 0:50:45.000 want them to be safe. But like, you know, it 0:50:45.120 --> 0:50:47.239 is a ton of work. I'm not just sitting here 0:50:47.400 --> 0:50:51.200 eating bond bonds all day or drinking cocktails. Yeah, And 0:50:51.360 --> 0:50:55.440 I think there's there's like a larger sort of like 0:50:55.440 --> 0:50:58.759 like Americans have this like the sexist sort of like 0:50:58.800 --> 0:51:02.600 hatred of like in disrespect to people who do both 0:51:02.640 --> 0:51:07.400 care work and a lot of creative work both. And 0:51:07.440 --> 0:51:10.840 then simultaneously there's this sort of like you know, the 0:51:10.920 --> 0:51:12.960 the there's there's there's a resentment to people who get 0:51:12.960 --> 0:51:16.719 to actually do something that helps people. And you know, 0:51:16.920 --> 0:51:19.840 I think right now we're seeing just the most toxic 0:51:19.920 --> 0:51:23.239 fusion of that, which is that like, yeah, I know, 0:51:23.520 --> 0:51:26.719 like these like you know and instead of like you know, 0:51:26.880 --> 0:51:30.319 recognizing the enormous amount of work that that's going into 0:51:30.400 --> 0:51:32.640 all like that's going into into teaching, like the amount 0:51:32.640 --> 0:51:35.200 of sort of like the care and love that's going 0:51:35.200 --> 0:51:36.920 into the creativity it's going into it. And just like 0:51:38.600 --> 0:51:41.799 the people people's willing to, like you're willing list to 0:51:41.840 --> 0:51:44.600 make like enormous sacrifices to try to keep these kids safe, 0:51:44.640 --> 0:51:46.600 they're just like no, Like the teachers are lazy, they 0:51:46.600 --> 0:51:49.680 don't want to work, they're going on strike, like and 0:51:49.719 --> 0:51:51.719 it's you know, and and and it's like they're doing 0:51:51.760 --> 0:51:54.080 this and it's like yeah, like you you're like they're 0:51:54.120 --> 0:51:58.560 killing their own kids. It's just like it's it's this 0:51:58.760 --> 0:52:02.000 weird fusion of like we we I've had. The spaces 0:52:02.120 --> 0:52:07.960 is like a combination of like feminized care labor, emotional labor, 0:52:08.680 --> 0:52:18.280 and um that's sort of like like intelligence, yeah, like professional, um, 0:52:18.280 --> 0:52:22.799 white collar intellectual kind of thing. And then also we're 0:52:22.840 --> 0:52:27.799 teaching a um more introductory level of our subjects, so 0:52:27.840 --> 0:52:31.200 we're seen as like discount intellectuals who are also women 0:52:31.280 --> 0:52:34.680 who do care work. So it's it's very frustrating, and 0:52:34.719 --> 0:52:37.200 I don't think a lot of people understand the amount 0:52:37.320 --> 0:52:41.239 of UM skill and expertise it takes to be a 0:52:41.280 --> 0:52:43.319 teacher and be effective at it. Like, it's not just 0:52:43.640 --> 0:52:46.000 I need to know social studies to the level that 0:52:46.040 --> 0:52:48.080 a twelfth grader would know it. It's I need to 0:52:48.080 --> 0:52:50.960 know social studies beyond that level and know how to 0:52:51.000 --> 0:52:54.080 communicate it to a high school student. And also I 0:52:54.120 --> 0:52:57.160 need to know a lot of stuff about like child development. 0:52:57.239 --> 0:53:01.160 It's it's really it's something and um, I you know, 0:53:01.239 --> 0:53:03.600 I find that to be fun and challenging, but I 0:53:03.640 --> 0:53:08.799 wish it was respected and you know, and then you're 0:53:08.800 --> 0:53:11.800 talking about like people are sacrificing their own kids. I 0:53:11.800 --> 0:53:14.040 want to point out a lot like I think there's 0:53:14.320 --> 0:53:17.560 a racial component to this. UM. The people who are 0:53:17.680 --> 0:53:23.160 in wealthier schools and who are mostly white know that 0:53:23.160 --> 0:53:25.239 their kids are gonna be fine, Like they are in 0:53:25.840 --> 0:53:28.520 schools that actually do have the resources to distance, that 0:53:28.600 --> 0:53:32.959 have air filters, that have good ventilation. Um, they're vaccinated, 0:53:33.440 --> 0:53:36.320 their kids are probably going to be fine. The kids 0:53:36.400 --> 0:53:40.560 that aren't going to be fine are lowing UM students 0:53:40.600 --> 0:53:43.359 of color. And it has always been this way. It's 0:53:43.360 --> 0:53:46.960 always been this way with schools, like when schools were desegregated, 0:53:47.040 --> 0:53:51.880 we started with private school voutuers, and we started with 0:53:52.040 --> 0:53:56.840 all of these like uh, state testing requirements and withholding 0:53:56.880 --> 0:53:59.960 funding from schools that don't meet those you know, testing 0:54:00.080 --> 0:54:04.280 nerds and all of these like um, this extra oversight 0:54:04.320 --> 0:54:08.839 owned teachers like that stuff all comes back to white 0:54:08.920 --> 0:54:11.640 people don't want to have to worry about black people's kids. 0:54:12.000 --> 0:54:14.879 That's it. And you know they will move their kids 0:54:14.880 --> 0:54:17.760 out to the north side or the suburbs or whatever. 0:54:18.080 --> 0:54:21.040 Notice that all of those suburbs schools have flipped. Noticed 0:54:21.080 --> 0:54:23.120 that Lory Lightfoot's kids are in a charter school that 0:54:23.160 --> 0:54:27.280 is not remote well and more than Lightfoot Lightfoot, Lightfoot 0:54:27.320 --> 0:54:31.640 won't like Lightfoot will not put herself in a room 0:54:31.640 --> 0:54:34.480 with the with the same number of people like to 0:54:34.520 --> 0:54:36.439 go to every day. She won't. She was telling people 0:54:36.440 --> 0:54:38.360 at the press conferences they had to wear their masks, 0:54:38.520 --> 0:54:40.479 and then she wasn't wearing hers, which was very charnge 0:54:40.520 --> 0:54:44.000 to me. It's like that's what they like when when 0:54:44.000 --> 0:54:45.839 you when you get to the politician level, they know 0:54:45.960 --> 0:54:49.120 it's dangerous, Like they know it. They they you can 0:54:49.120 --> 0:54:52.600 tell about what they do right now, Yeah, like they 0:54:52.600 --> 0:54:54.800 won't do it, but like no, no, they're they're perfectly 0:54:54.840 --> 0:54:57.040 willing to just send to send you off the die, 0:54:57.120 --> 0:55:01.000 to send all these kids off to die, and it's just, yeah, 0:55:01.239 --> 0:55:04.120 sometimes I feel I get kind of dooomer, and I 0:55:04.160 --> 0:55:08.040 wonder if, like, if that's not the plan, Like is 0:55:08.080 --> 0:55:10.600 it that? I mean, I don't really believe that. I 0:55:10.640 --> 0:55:14.240 think what it really is is this just like malicious neglect. 0:55:14.440 --> 0:55:19.359 Like if you're somebody who's a policymaker and someone comes 0:55:19.400 --> 0:55:21.000 to you and it's like, I need you to care 0:55:21.080 --> 0:55:24.600 about this population here that doesn't have a lot of 0:55:24.640 --> 0:55:29.000 money and needs a lot of things, and you, the policymaker, 0:55:29.040 --> 0:55:30.719 are going to be like, oh, that sounds like so 0:55:30.800 --> 0:55:34.000 much work, And then somebody else is going to come 0:55:34.040 --> 0:55:36.399 to you and be like I need these things over here, 0:55:36.440 --> 0:55:37.960 and I do have a lot of money, and I 0:55:38.040 --> 0:55:39.560 do have a lot of influence, and I'm gonna make 0:55:39.560 --> 0:55:41.440 your life difficult if you don't do what I want. 0:55:42.160 --> 0:55:44.120 They're gonna do with that other side once. And what 0:55:44.200 --> 0:55:46.400 the other side once right now is for kids to 0:55:46.400 --> 0:55:48.600 get back into school so they can have free daycares, 0:55:48.840 --> 0:55:51.160 parents can go to work, and that's and that's it. 0:55:51.239 --> 0:55:53.959 And teachers are standing here being like I didn't get 0:55:54.000 --> 0:55:57.239 a master's degree and do you know countless hours of 0:55:57.320 --> 0:56:01.520 professional development to be a babysitter, you know, and no, 0:56:01.760 --> 0:56:03.759 not to knock babysitters. I was in nanny for a 0:56:03.800 --> 0:56:08.120 long time. That is hard work. But um, I didn't 0:56:08.120 --> 0:56:09.960 get a master's degree to be a babysitter. I got 0:56:10.000 --> 0:56:12.680 a master's degree to be a teacher. And I'm in 0:56:12.680 --> 0:56:15.680 an environment right now where I can't really teach effectively 0:56:15.920 --> 0:56:18.839 and all I'm doing is babysitting. They want to wear 0:56:18.880 --> 0:56:21.040 house kids. That is what we're doing with the schools. 0:56:21.280 --> 0:56:24.600 That's why they want them open. And it's you know, 0:56:24.680 --> 0:56:27.239 it's it's hard not to feel like they just started 0:56:27.280 --> 0:56:30.239 doing it because they hate us, even though I know 0:56:30.320 --> 0:56:32.600 it's not. It's just it does feel that way. I 0:56:32.880 --> 0:56:36.800 will like, I will say that, like you're so if 0:56:36.840 --> 0:56:40.120 you become elected as the mayor of Chicago, like your 0:56:40.200 --> 0:56:43.359 job is to break the teachers union, Like that's that's like, 0:56:43.440 --> 0:56:45.840 that's that's that's that's like the role you're auditioning for. 0:56:45.960 --> 0:56:47.680 And they have been they have been trying to do 0:56:47.719 --> 0:56:50.680 this for literally my entire lifetime. They've been trying to 0:56:50.680 --> 0:56:53.840 do this, like since before I was born, Like that's 0:56:54.600 --> 0:56:57.760 and honestly, like, wouldn't surprise me if this was another 0:56:57.760 --> 0:56:59.759 part of this was just them once again trying to 0:56:59.800 --> 0:57:02.319 break teachers union. Oh absolutely, like and if and not 0:57:02.360 --> 0:57:04.759 even just that, like yeah, you know, like not just 0:57:04.800 --> 0:57:06.400 on the sort of political level, like on the incredible 0:57:06.400 --> 0:57:09.480 cynical level of we'll just kill them. Well, it's it's 0:57:09.480 --> 0:57:12.720 a labor thing. Like, it's not just a Chicago teachers 0:57:12.840 --> 0:57:14.920 union or even a teachers union thing. It is a 0:57:15.000 --> 0:57:20.320 labor movement across the board thing that. Um, the largest, 0:57:20.440 --> 0:57:23.440 I think the largest unionized workforce in the country is teachers, 0:57:24.080 --> 0:57:28.440 and we on top of that are a union of 0:57:28.480 --> 0:57:31.000 workers who have the power to absolutely bring our economy 0:57:31.000 --> 0:57:33.000 to a grinding hole if we want to. We could 0:57:33.000 --> 0:57:35.560 all go on straight right now and nobody's going to 0:57:35.640 --> 0:57:38.800 do ship until we go back to work. Um, they 0:57:38.840 --> 0:57:41.080 could if they, you know, they could try to replace 0:57:41.200 --> 0:57:44.280 us with like people who are basically like hall monitors 0:57:44.280 --> 0:57:47.600 and give kids like canned curriculums. But they wouldn't really 0:57:47.600 --> 0:57:50.160 be learning very well, and parents wouldn't be happy with it, 0:57:50.240 --> 0:57:52.520 and they wouldn't be entering the workforce with the skills 0:57:52.520 --> 0:57:55.880 they need to make money for the economy to you know, 0:57:56.000 --> 0:58:01.360 make money for the almighty Tao. So um. The it 0:58:01.400 --> 0:58:03.760 has been a project for decades in this country to 0:58:03.800 --> 0:58:07.080 try to break teachers unions because teacher unions occupy this 0:58:07.160 --> 0:58:12.320 space where they allow other unions to happen. Um. We have, 0:58:12.560 --> 0:58:15.920 you know, enough influence on politicians that they can't just 0:58:16.000 --> 0:58:19.040 disband the labor board and make unions illegal, which they 0:58:19.040 --> 0:58:22.440 would absolutely fucking love to And if they could just 0:58:22.480 --> 0:58:25.160 get rid of these damn teachers unions, maybe they could 0:58:25.240 --> 0:58:28.200 do it. Um. So you know, and that's what you 0:58:28.240 --> 0:58:30.960 see with the education reform movement, where you have all 0:58:30.960 --> 0:58:36.320 these people advocating for bouchers and charter schools, and it's 0:58:36.480 --> 0:58:43.160 you know, they want to break labor. And I see 0:58:43.160 --> 0:58:45.640 a lot of I mean, now I'm gonna I'm gonna 0:58:45.720 --> 0:58:48.240 scold some of my comrades, but I see a lot 0:58:48.280 --> 0:58:51.520 of leftists who, um are really skeptical of teachers and 0:58:51.560 --> 0:58:54.840 don't want to support the teachers union. And I get it, 0:58:54.920 --> 0:58:56.959 Like there are a lot of teachers who really suck. 0:58:57.040 --> 0:58:58.880 And there's a lot of teachers who are not radical, 0:58:58.960 --> 0:59:01.120 like most teachers are not radical. A lot of them 0:59:01.120 --> 0:59:04.880 are pretty conservative, but at the same time. If you 0:59:06.120 --> 0:59:12.400 were to abolish schools immediately right now and break up 0:59:12.440 --> 0:59:15.000 the teachers unions and all that, you're gonna get end 0:59:15.120 --> 0:59:18.840 up with. Rich people go to school, poor people don't. 0:59:19.440 --> 0:59:21.920 If your poor your kid goes to work, probably won't 0:59:21.920 --> 0:59:24.600 be in a coal mine, but you know they'll probably 0:59:24.640 --> 0:59:29.560 be like soldering my computer chips or coding or something 0:59:29.640 --> 0:59:33.040 for like pennies an hour. And I don't want that world. 0:59:33.120 --> 0:59:35.440 And if you actually care about labor, then you need 0:59:35.480 --> 0:59:39.440 to support teachers unions because um, the public schools are 0:59:40.080 --> 0:59:42.640 central to all these communities that we want to be reaching, 0:59:43.400 --> 0:59:46.840 and the unions are the only thing making sure that 0:59:46.880 --> 0:59:51.720 they stay public. Yeah. Yeah, that's like I almost like 0:59:51.760 --> 0:59:54.240 again like to to to to anarchist comrades who are 0:59:54.200 --> 0:59:57.919 anti school, it's like, yeah, like I hate school, I'm 0:59:57.960 --> 1:00:01.600 for it, d D schooling is great, but we need 1:00:01.640 --> 1:00:03.680 to do other things first. Yeah, you have to And 1:00:03.720 --> 1:00:07.120 like again like that you need to like like support 1:00:07.120 --> 1:00:11.800 the workers, not the institution. Like it's like it's like 1:00:11.880 --> 1:00:13.840 saying I'm a vegan, so I'm going to go after 1:00:13.960 --> 1:00:18.880 McDonald's in place, just like like so like I I 1:00:19.040 --> 1:00:21.600 my high school was like all this was much like 1:00:21.640 --> 1:00:24.400 incredibly conservative, but everyone was still in the Union. That 1:00:24.480 --> 1:00:26.880 was like the one. That was the one thing that 1:00:26.960 --> 1:00:29.560 was like, well, okay, they were there, there there. There 1:00:29.600 --> 1:00:32.320 there were two counter failing forces. One was that I 1:00:33.680 --> 1:00:36.120 the Christians didn't seem to understand what liberation theology was, 1:00:36.160 --> 1:00:38.760 so occasionally they'd accidentally hire leftist because they were like, oh, 1:00:38.800 --> 1:00:41.680 you're a Christian, You're fine, you're from America. We're not 1:00:41.680 --> 1:00:44.240 gonna question you further. The second thing was that even 1:00:44.640 --> 1:00:46.200 everyone everyone was in the Union, and that was like 1:00:46.240 --> 1:00:48.240 that was that was literally the only those are the 1:00:48.240 --> 1:00:53.160 only two left wing Like vague, I've gotten into so 1:00:53.200 --> 1:00:56.520 many teaching spaces by talking about how I like critical 1:00:56.520 --> 1:01:03.560 pedagogy and idn't understand very was a conference or being like, oh, 1:01:03.600 --> 1:01:07.360 I'm really really really into Chicago history. I especially love 1:01:07.400 --> 1:01:10.240 the history of like labor in Chicago because it's it's 1:01:10.320 --> 1:01:13.240 huge people here here about it and they don't get 1:01:13.280 --> 1:01:19.160 that like I'm an anarchist, you know, and and a 1:01:19.160 --> 1:01:24.840 lot of the like um sort of like education reform language. 1:01:24.880 --> 1:01:28.920 I think it's very funny. It is just lifted from 1:01:29.400 --> 1:01:34.680 radical like sociologists and anthropologists and educators who are trying 1:01:34.720 --> 1:01:39.800 to find ways to um dismantle like authoritarian structures in schools, 1:01:40.280 --> 1:01:43.080 and so they'll come up with these like, um, you know, 1:01:43.600 --> 1:01:46.840 like restorative practices and all this stuff, and then they 1:01:46.920 --> 1:01:48.840 kind of get they make their way up to the 1:01:48.840 --> 1:01:53.440 Ivory Tower and then get repackaged in this It's it's like, 1:01:53.920 --> 1:01:56.000 I don't know, it's like a machine or something that 1:01:56.040 --> 1:01:59.800 like sucks up radical ideas, brings them up to the academy, 1:02:00.200 --> 1:02:02.800 repackages them to make them nice for politicians, and then 1:02:02.840 --> 1:02:07.600 spits them back out. And it is exhausting and I 1:02:07.640 --> 1:02:09.840 hate it. It makes me so mad. I'll never forgive 1:02:09.840 --> 1:02:15.880 people for what they did to the term restorative justice. Yeah, 1:02:16.080 --> 1:02:18.520 do you have anything else that you want to make 1:02:18.560 --> 1:02:21.240 sure that people like understand about what's happening in the 1:02:21.240 --> 1:02:24.960 schools right now? Um, I guess just the biggest thing 1:02:25.040 --> 1:02:29.280 is I want people to understand that, like, this is 1:02:29.320 --> 1:02:33.600 a question of when and under what conditions are we 1:02:33.640 --> 1:02:36.080 going to be forced into a remote learning situation. This 1:02:36.160 --> 1:02:39.040 isn't like we want remote learning because we like it 1:02:39.040 --> 1:02:42.960 because it's fun. It's because it's going to happen if 1:02:43.000 --> 1:02:44.920 you like it or not. The schools are going to 1:02:44.960 --> 1:02:47.760 close if you like it or not, because the unless 1:02:47.800 --> 1:02:50.360 you're okay with just like people are going to get 1:02:50.360 --> 1:02:52.840 sick and die and or going to work sick, which 1:02:52.840 --> 1:02:55.680 I think most of us agree that's insane. Um it 1:02:55.880 --> 1:02:58.240 is there are you. We're going to be in a 1:02:58.280 --> 1:03:00.400 situation where we don't have enough sta have to keep 1:03:00.440 --> 1:03:06.040 buildings open. So either we can try and mitigate that 1:03:06.120 --> 1:03:09.640 now and keep that from happening, or we can just 1:03:09.640 --> 1:03:12.000 start our hands up and say, fine, let's let the 1:03:12.000 --> 1:03:16.480 schools collapse. I don't want the schools to collapse, So, um, 1:03:16.520 --> 1:03:18.560 if we could just go remote for two weeks and 1:03:18.760 --> 1:03:23.000 get some good testing in and have a vaccine requirement, 1:03:23.520 --> 1:03:26.760 And personally, I would like to advocate for remote as 1:03:26.760 --> 1:03:29.360 an option for parents who want it. I don't think 1:03:29.400 --> 1:03:32.040 that's on the table right now, but um, I think 1:03:32.040 --> 1:03:35.280 more parents out there should be demanding it. And I 1:03:35.360 --> 1:03:38.400 also would like to say to parents, you have a 1:03:38.480 --> 1:03:42.320 lot of power that you don't understand. Um. The school 1:03:42.360 --> 1:03:45.680 districts listen to the parents so much more than the teachers. 1:03:45.680 --> 1:03:48.960 One parents voice is worth like ten teacher voices. So 1:03:49.160 --> 1:03:51.360 if you see something going on in your schools that 1:03:51.440 --> 1:03:56.080 you're not comfortable with, if you have questions, contact your principles, 1:03:56.120 --> 1:03:59.640 contact the district, talk to people, talk to the other 1:03:59.680 --> 1:04:03.400 parents that you know, organize yourselves. Um, if we had, 1:04:03.680 --> 1:04:08.600 you know, strong parent organizations on our side, we would 1:04:08.600 --> 1:04:11.680 be absolutely unstoppable and we could have the school system 1:04:11.680 --> 1:04:15.080 that we want and that our kids deserve. Yeah. And 1:04:15.320 --> 1:04:18.080 I think I like the right figured this out a 1:04:18.080 --> 1:04:21.440 long time ago that you absolutely Yeah, look at what 1:04:21.600 --> 1:04:24.080 they're doing to the school board meetings with CRT. Yeah, 1:04:24.400 --> 1:04:27.000 we could have that for people who are actually good 1:04:27.040 --> 1:04:30.400 people who care, like there's no there's no reason that 1:04:30.720 --> 1:04:32.600 all of the other parents couldn't be going and saying 1:04:32.640 --> 1:04:35.000 I want my kids to learn about race, and I 1:04:35.040 --> 1:04:36.880 want them to be wearing masks, and I want everybody 1:04:36.920 --> 1:04:39.240 to be vaccinated. Yeah. So I think I think I 1:04:39.240 --> 1:04:42.320 think that's a good note to end on. We you know, 1:04:42.440 --> 1:04:44.920 we can make this better. We just have to, you know, 1:04:45.000 --> 1:04:49.800 work together. Yea. Do you have anything that you want 1:04:49.800 --> 1:04:51.360 to plug, like, do you have a way to support 1:04:51.800 --> 1:04:55.200 the teachers who Um, I think I'll send you a 1:04:55.240 --> 1:04:59.080 flyer that we have. It has some information for contacting Ottoman, 1:04:59.320 --> 1:05:03.200 getting COVID tests and a petition to sign um. If 1:05:03.200 --> 1:05:06.000 you could post that I would really appreciate that. I 1:05:06.160 --> 1:05:11.040 definitely can definitely do that. Awesome. Thank you coming. Yeah, 1:05:11.200 --> 1:05:21.200 good talking to you. Hey, Lead the listeners tag here. 1:05:21.480 --> 1:05:24.640 Last season on Lethal Lit, you might remember, I came 1:05:24.720 --> 1:05:28.400 to Hollow Falls on a mission clearing my aunt Best's 1:05:28.480 --> 1:05:33.480 name and making sure justice was finally served. But I 1:05:33.560 --> 1:05:36.600 hadn't counted on a rash of new murders tearing apart 1:05:36.640 --> 1:05:40.840 the town. My mission put myself and my friends in danger. 1:05:41.560 --> 1:05:45.280 Though it wasn't all bad, I'm going to be real 1:05:45.320 --> 1:05:49.720 Ify Tig, I like you, but now all signs point 1:05:49.760 --> 1:05:53.000 to a new serial killer in Hollow Falls. If this 1:05:53.080 --> 1:05:56.439 game is just starting, you better believe I'm gonna win. 1:05:57.840 --> 1:06:02.680 I'm tig Torres and this is Lethal Lit. Catch up 1:06:02.720 --> 1:06:05.120 on season one of the hit murder mystery podcast Lead 1:06:05.240 --> 1:06:07.920 Lit a tag Tara's Mystery out now, and then to 1:06:08.000 --> 1:06:10.400 an in for all new thrills in season two, dropping 1:06:10.400 --> 1:06:13.920 weekly starting February nine. Subscribe now to never miss an episode. 1:06:14.160 --> 1:06:16.280 Listen to Leave the Lit on the I Heart Radio app, 1:06:16.360 --> 1:06:20.760 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm 1:06:20.840 --> 1:06:23.440 Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and we're the hosts 1:06:23.480 --> 1:06:26.280 of the science podcast Stuff to Blow Your Mind, where 1:06:26.280 --> 1:06:28.520 every week we get to explore some of the weirdest 1:06:28.600 --> 1:06:32.880 questions in the universe, like if sci fi teleportation was possible, 1:06:32.960 --> 1:06:35.800 how would it square with the multitudes of organisms that 1:06:35.880 --> 1:06:39.080 inhabit our human bodies? Can we find evidence of emotions 1:06:39.120 --> 1:06:42.800 in animals like bees, ants, and crayfish? How would it 1:06:42.920 --> 1:06:47.720 interplanetary civilization function just free will exist? Stuff to Blow 1:06:47.760 --> 1:06:53.400 Your Mind examines neurological quandaries, cosmic mysteries, evolutionary marvels, and 1:06:53.440 --> 1:06:56.360 the wonders of techno history. Basically, this show is the 1:06:56.400 --> 1:07:00.000 altar where we worship the weirdness of reality. If anybody 1:07:00.120 --> 1:07:03.400 ever told you you ask the weirdest questions, it is 1:07:03.440 --> 1:07:05.880 time to come join us in the place where you belong. 1:07:06.240 --> 1:07:09.560 The Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast new episodes publish 1:07:09.600 --> 1:07:13.480 every Tuesday and Thursday, with bonus episodes on Saturdays. Listen 1:07:13.480 --> 1:07:15.080 to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the I Heart 1:07:15.160 --> 1:07:18.680 Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 1:07:20.360 --> 1:07:23.040 When P. T. Barnum's Great American Museum burned to the 1:07:23.040 --> 1:07:26.120 ground in eighteen sixty five, what rose from its ashes 1:07:26.160 --> 1:07:29.920 would change the world? Welcome to Grim and Mild presents 1:07:30.240 --> 1:07:34.320 an ongoing journey into the strange, the unusual, and the fascinating. 1:07:34.680 --> 1:07:37.560 For our inaugural season, we'll be giving you a backstage 1:07:37.600 --> 1:07:41.840 tour of the always complex and often misunderstood cultural artifact 1:07:41.880 --> 1:07:45.160 that is the American Side Show. So come along as 1:07:45.200 --> 1:07:48.000 we visit the shadowy corners of the stage and learn 1:07:48.040 --> 1:07:50.000 about the people who are at the center of it 1:07:50.040 --> 1:07:53.160 all in a place where spectacle was king. We will 1:07:53.200 --> 1:07:56.520 soon discover there's always more to the story than meets 1:07:56.560 --> 1:07:59.800 the eye. So step right up and get in line. 1:08:00.480 --> 1:08:02.640 Listen to Grim and Mile Presents now on the I 1:08:02.720 --> 1:08:06.800 Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 1:08:07.360 --> 1:08:19.960 Learn more over at Grim and Mild dot com Slash presents. Alright, Robert, 1:08:19.960 --> 1:08:23.800 you want to opening us up with something I don't know. Nope, 1:08:23.880 --> 1:08:26.519 you're opening. The opening is is that is what you 1:08:26.600 --> 1:08:29.439 just did? Okay, wells already opened. Welcome to take it 1:08:29.439 --> 1:08:33.479 happen Here the podcast about how things things do be 1:08:33.880 --> 1:08:38.360 crumbling sometimes, including our ability to introduce the podcast that pages. 1:08:38.880 --> 1:08:41.679 It's actually a very meta art piece about the Yeah, 1:08:42.080 --> 1:08:47.160 we started off very polished and slowly commentary on I 1:08:47.200 --> 1:08:50.560 don't know something. It's called figure out what. It's a 1:08:50.600 --> 1:08:54.080 commentary on it. It's called metamodernism. It's the post it's 1:08:54.080 --> 1:08:58.160 post postmodern. Anyway, Um, what are we talking about? Disinformation 1:08:58.640 --> 1:09:05.920 and various bullshit today. So among the many disinformation vectors online, 1:09:06.760 --> 1:09:10.000 Joe Rogan's podcast is obviously one of like the largest 1:09:10.160 --> 1:09:15.200 single single vectors. Um. Yeah, I mean I've said this before, 1:09:15.360 --> 1:09:17.840 but I'll say it again. I don't think there's a 1:09:17.840 --> 1:09:21.160 cable news station as influential as Joe Rogan, you know, 1:09:21.280 --> 1:09:23.320 and you could you could make commentary on like, oh 1:09:23.360 --> 1:09:25.320 maybe they have a larger viewership in terms of like 1:09:25.360 --> 1:09:29.439 their actual ability to influence large numbers of people. Um, 1:09:29.520 --> 1:09:32.800 there's certainly no single cable news host that comes close 1:09:32.840 --> 1:09:36.280 to Joe UM. And I would argue probably no network 1:09:36.320 --> 1:09:39.960 that does. He's extremely influential by virtue of the fact 1:09:40.400 --> 1:09:44.639 that he's um a meathead of people seem to find 1:09:44.840 --> 1:09:47.400 friendly and engaging, and he is very charismatic. He's good 1:09:47.400 --> 1:09:50.640 at what he does, he's good at talking. Yeah. So, 1:09:51.160 --> 1:09:54.240 multiple times during the past three weeks, Rogan has brought 1:09:54.240 --> 1:09:58.840 on two separate quote unquote doctors who have started to 1:09:58.880 --> 1:10:02.880 pedal something called old mass formation psychosis, which is kind 1:10:02.880 --> 1:10:05.600 of a new vector in the anti vax kind of 1:10:06.080 --> 1:10:10.120 argument and like headspace, so like as for like the 1:10:10.760 --> 1:10:12.760 it could happen here a portion of the episode, This 1:10:12.800 --> 1:10:17.080 one's pretty simple. Could mass formation psychoses happen here? No way, 1:10:17.280 --> 1:10:20.559 not this time. We created it, not this time. No, 1:10:20.920 --> 1:10:24.679 not this time. It's totally made up, pure fiction. It's fiction. 1:10:25.120 --> 1:10:27.840 It's fiction. We made it up. We made this one up. 1:10:27.960 --> 1:10:31.000 It's a made up tail. It's a total fabrication. Nope, 1:10:31.320 --> 1:10:36.760 not really ever happened anywhere. I might also argue, no, nope, fictional. 1:10:36.920 --> 1:10:40.960 We've solved the podcast total this is not a thing, 1:10:42.240 --> 1:10:46.920 total fabrication, made up tail. So yeah, well, but when 1:10:47.160 --> 1:10:50.040 whenever these like cook doctors bring up mass formation psychosis, 1:10:50.439 --> 1:10:53.040 you can actually kind of watch them get close to 1:10:53.200 --> 1:10:57.479 understanding something real, but then they veer off into reactionary nonsense. 1:10:57.960 --> 1:11:01.880 Like most powerful on sense, there is an element of 1:11:02.000 --> 1:11:05.320 truth that it is uh spinning off of, you know, 1:11:06.400 --> 1:11:08.320 So let's start off with some of the more kind 1:11:08.360 --> 1:11:12.200 of deranged examples and well then eventually providing at least 1:11:12.240 --> 1:11:16.200 some background onto the whole massformation psychoa. This this idea, 1:11:16.280 --> 1:11:17.680 and then we'll kind of discuss some of the more 1:11:17.680 --> 1:11:21.479 slightly interesting aspects of this argument that Rogan seems fond 1:11:21.479 --> 1:11:23.920 of pushing right now. So, the first guy I want 1:11:23.920 --> 1:11:28.280 to talk about is Dr Peter McCole, which is not 1:11:28.439 --> 1:11:31.280 the not the guy that was trending on Twitter last 1:11:31.280 --> 1:11:33.640 week or whatever this was. This is someone else that 1:11:33.720 --> 1:11:36.360 Rogan brought on a few weeks previously who actually started 1:11:36.400 --> 1:11:40.680 talking about this first. Um So background on McCole. By 1:11:40.760 --> 1:11:43.799 most accounts, he was like a top cardiologist for many years, 1:11:44.160 --> 1:11:46.320 you know. He he shares a similar story to other 1:11:46.400 --> 1:11:50.439 doctors who have become kind of COVID conspiracy celebrities. Former 1:11:50.640 --> 1:11:52.799 friends and co workers say he was a pretty reasonable 1:11:52.840 --> 1:11:55.160 guy and a good doctor, and then COVID he realized 1:11:55.200 --> 1:11:58.360 he could be worth millions of dollars. Yeah, COVID ahead 1:11:58.360 --> 1:12:00.360 that he started to kind of go off the rails, 1:12:00.400 --> 1:12:03.960 and he he initially began developing conspiracy theories, in particular 1:12:03.960 --> 1:12:08.360 around hydroxychlor quinn um. And mccull was also in the 1:12:08.400 --> 1:12:12.799 news earlier this year due to or I guess uh, 1:12:12.920 --> 1:12:17.400 due to legal dispute with his former employer, Baylor University Health. So. 1:12:18.120 --> 1:12:20.839 According to a lawsuit for nearly six months after McCall's 1:12:21.080 --> 1:12:24.080 employment had ended, he continued to use his professional titles, 1:12:24.080 --> 1:12:26.840 such as the Vice chief of Internal Medicine at Baylor University, 1:12:27.160 --> 1:12:30.080 and mis represented himself as a Baylor employee dozens, if 1:12:30.080 --> 1:12:32.680 not hundreds of times in media interviews in which he 1:12:32.760 --> 1:12:37.560 spread disinformation about the pandemic. So the type of misinformation 1:12:37.600 --> 1:12:40.840 that he talks about, you know, pretty basic stuff of 1:12:41.040 --> 1:12:44.160 vaccines are neither safe nor effective. Um. He was a 1:12:44.240 --> 1:12:47.960 very early hydroxic quin proponent. Um. He claims that there's 1:12:47.960 --> 1:12:52.679 no asymptomatic COVID transmission at all, even if you're not vaccinated. Um. 1:12:52.920 --> 1:12:55.240 And he claims that you cannot get COVID twice once 1:12:55.280 --> 1:12:58.400 you have at once. The post infection natural immunity is 1:12:58.400 --> 1:13:01.960 one percent of protective against all future COVID disease, which, 1:13:01.960 --> 1:13:06.040 of course this thing works that way, works that way. Yeah. No, 1:13:06.120 --> 1:13:09.000 everything I just said is not true. All of it 1:13:09.040 --> 1:13:12.640 can individually be disproved by the existance of Jayre Bosonaro, 1:13:13.840 --> 1:13:19.120 every single to say that, Chris, I'm looking over at 1:13:19.160 --> 1:13:21.880 my digital picture frame that is just loaded with like 1:13:21.920 --> 1:13:26.679 a dozen photos of JayR. Bolson Yaro in the hospital dying. Um. Yeah, 1:13:27.120 --> 1:13:30.639 I recommend everyone do that. It improves every morning. As 1:13:30.640 --> 1:13:32.880 soon as I walk up to my recording studio, I 1:13:32.880 --> 1:13:35.320 see JayR. Bolson Yaro getting ship sucked out of his 1:13:35.360 --> 1:13:37.360 nose from a tube, and I just feel ready to 1:13:37.400 --> 1:13:42.480 take on the day. It beats coffee. Wow, that's strong words. Um. 1:13:42.600 --> 1:13:44.920 The other big thing and since how since I want 1:13:44.920 --> 1:13:48.240 to get into the mess, uh psychosis bullshit is that 1:13:48.320 --> 1:13:52.200 he McCall also asserts that fifty Americans have died from 1:13:52.240 --> 1:13:56.439 the vaccine shots. This is not true, um, looking at 1:13:56.520 --> 1:13:59.720 like death's possibly associated with it, It is like a 1:14:00.160 --> 1:14:04.760 maybe a thousand or two thousand, which sucks, um. And 1:14:04.840 --> 1:14:07.639 but like that's that's the highest amount because again it's 1:14:07.640 --> 1:14:09.839 not even a lot of these things are not necessarily 1:14:09.880 --> 1:14:13.360 direct directly causal um, So it's hard to figure out 1:14:13.520 --> 1:14:15.840 what is what. But if there is a number, it's 1:14:15.880 --> 1:14:20.519 around the two wish thousand range. Uh not um. And 1:14:20.760 --> 1:14:24.559 mccaull thinks that, or at least promotes that the idea 1:14:24.680 --> 1:14:27.880 that like the vaccine, is a conspiracy theory to suppress 1:14:28.080 --> 1:14:31.680 hydroxical wor quin and therapeutic treatment for COVID. And this 1:14:31.760 --> 1:14:36.120 conspiracy is organized at every level. Uh. Three different regions, corporations, 1:14:36.320 --> 1:14:39.960 Big Pharma, Hollywood, and and this is this is the 1:14:40.000 --> 1:14:43.439 mass formation psychosis, is that we've believed that both COVID 1:14:43.520 --> 1:14:46.400 is like a big problem and that the vaccine is 1:14:46.439 --> 1:14:49.200 the solution. So I'm gonna I'm gonna play a clip 1:14:49.400 --> 1:14:53.520 hopefully you guys can hear this of of of McColl 1:14:53.760 --> 1:14:59.160 talking about mass formation psychosis. Dope. We've seen mass psychosis 1:14:59.280 --> 1:15:03.720 in history, both more the horrific group suicides that have 1:15:03.800 --> 1:15:07.760 happened with religious culture. We knew a Nazi Germany where 1:15:07.840 --> 1:15:11.000 people in a sense offered their children up to eugenics 1:15:11.040 --> 1:15:14.760 programs and a progressive mass psychosis, and they themselves walk 1:15:14.840 --> 1:15:17.479 into gas chambers and my gas that they didn't kick fight, 1:15:17.560 --> 1:15:21.200 go kicking skimming this type of that's a mass psychosis. 1:15:21.200 --> 1:15:24.800 So what Desmond says is it must be four conditions 1:15:24.880 --> 1:15:28.800 met for a mass psychosis. The first is the population 1:15:28.920 --> 1:15:32.080 must be isolated. People must be isolated for a plot period. 1:15:32.760 --> 1:15:35.800 Number two, we must have things taken away from us 1:15:35.840 --> 1:15:40.760 that we previously enjoyed. Number three, there must be constant, 1:15:41.000 --> 1:15:47.200 free floating anxiety, anxiety of more viruses, more disability, more death, 1:15:47.600 --> 1:15:52.400 more anxiety. And then The last one is that Kapper 1:15:52.560 --> 1:15:56.519 number four is there must be a single solution offered 1:15:56.560 --> 1:16:01.599 by an entity and authority. The vacts scene, the only 1:16:01.760 --> 1:16:05.519 solution to the pandemic is the vaccine. We're in a 1:16:05.600 --> 1:16:08.960 mass ecosis. And what Desmond says is with the vaccine, 1:16:09.280 --> 1:16:13.800 there is no limit to the absurdity that we will see, 1:16:13.920 --> 1:16:17.320 no limit to the absurdity. So this idea of here, 1:16:17.400 --> 1:16:21.400 take a vaccine, take any vaccine. That's absurd. Vaccines are different. 1:16:21.439 --> 1:16:23.040 There must be a winner, there must be a loser, 1:16:23.120 --> 1:16:25.519 must be something. Why why would it be any vaccine. 1:16:25.560 --> 1:16:27.400 It's the same with the mask where masks, it doesn't 1:16:27.439 --> 1:16:29.880 matter what kind of mask, just put it over your face. Absurdity, 1:16:30.520 --> 1:16:34.639 the absurdity of well, I've already had COVID. The CDC 1:16:34.760 --> 1:16:40.360 says you can't get COVID again. Okay, so listeners at 1:16:40.400 --> 1:16:43.599 home should know so that you understand what this video 1:16:43.680 --> 1:16:46.160 is that the entire time he's talking, there's what appears 1:16:46.160 --> 1:16:48.519 to be the eviscerated corpse of a black woman lying 1:16:48.600 --> 1:16:52.800 underneath it. Like it's horrifying, It's like very how do 1:16:52.920 --> 1:16:59.040 you like like something? I think it's one of the 1:16:59.080 --> 1:17:01.960 dolls that medical students learned how to do autopsies on 1:17:02.000 --> 1:17:03.840 It's not a real person, but it does look like 1:17:03.880 --> 1:17:07.240 the corpse of an eviscerated woman as he's just like chatting. 1:17:07.520 --> 1:17:11.960 The face really does look like it took me. I 1:17:11.960 --> 1:17:13.559 thought it was like I couldn't forget what was going 1:17:13.560 --> 1:17:16.639 on for like, yeah, I mean, yeah, they're the cadaver 1:17:16.760 --> 1:17:19.480 dolls that they have for trading are quite good. Um, 1:17:19.520 --> 1:17:21.400 I kind of want to get one for the next 1:17:21.439 --> 1:17:23.479 time I'm in Texas and want to use an HIV lane. 1:17:23.479 --> 1:17:27.080 But that's the story for another day. So yeah, that's 1:17:27.640 --> 1:17:33.440 that's pretty dumb, especially the notion that people were hypnotized 1:17:33.479 --> 1:17:37.240 into peacefully walking into gas. I just need to stay 1:17:37.400 --> 1:17:40.320 like that's that not Not only is that like that 1:17:40.640 --> 1:17:43.479 is objectively untrue to the extent that I could provide 1:17:43.520 --> 1:17:46.799 anyone interested with thousands of pages of reading from people 1:17:46.840 --> 1:17:51.400 who survived concentration camps about how they worked and why 1:17:51.560 --> 1:17:54.160 people walked into them, and a lot of it just 1:17:54.240 --> 1:17:56.599 boils down to the fact that it was they were 1:17:56.600 --> 1:18:00.200 making a very rational choice, which was I have no options. Year, 1:18:00.320 --> 1:18:01.920 I cannot get out of this, but I can at 1:18:01.960 --> 1:18:04.120 least make sure that my children are not panicking in 1:18:04.160 --> 1:18:06.920 the last seconds before we're killed. And a lot of 1:18:06.960 --> 1:18:10.479 the people the the because a lot of the actual 1:18:10.560 --> 1:18:13.280 like grunt work of of key of loading humans into 1:18:13.280 --> 1:18:15.920 the gas chambers was done by other inmates who were 1:18:15.920 --> 1:18:19.360 also not going through psychosis. They were given a chance 1:18:19.400 --> 1:18:23.479 to survive longer by helping to operate the camps. UM. 1:18:23.560 --> 1:18:27.280 And those people you can read, some of them did survive, UM. 1:18:27.360 --> 1:18:30.400 And some of them wrote about their experiences UM, which 1:18:30.400 --> 1:18:33.080 is some of the most harrowing shit like imaginable for 1:18:33.200 --> 1:18:36.000 a human being to possibly go through. It is all 1:18:36.040 --> 1:18:39.000 tremendously well documented. And the most offensive thing I can 1:18:39.040 --> 1:18:42.720 imagine is saying that these people were somehow is saying 1:18:42.800 --> 1:18:44.720 Number one, it's incredibly offensive to say that they were 1:18:44.760 --> 1:18:47.240 going through some sort of psychosis and that's why they 1:18:47.240 --> 1:18:50.160 walked into the chambers and not This was the best 1:18:50.560 --> 1:18:53.599 option available to them, given what was going on and 1:18:53.640 --> 1:18:56.680 what like the situation they had been forced into. They 1:18:56.680 --> 1:19:00.000 did not have other options. UM. It was that or 1:19:00.040 --> 1:19:03.360 get machine gun to death. UM. And maybe you think 1:19:03.400 --> 1:19:05.920 you would choose a different option, UM. But if you're 1:19:05.920 --> 1:19:08.200 critiquing them or trying to claim that like the only 1:19:08.200 --> 1:19:09.680 reason they would do that. What they did was that 1:19:09.720 --> 1:19:12.479 they had lost their minds Um, I will I will 1:19:12.560 --> 1:19:14.360 hit you in the face with a brick. Fuck you 1:19:14.760 --> 1:19:17.080 like that. That that's my answer to that. Actually, if 1:19:17.120 --> 1:19:22.360 you are someone who is interested academically and why people 1:19:22.439 --> 1:19:25.000 did some of the things that they did at at 1:19:25.000 --> 1:19:28.639 the death camps, um, and like why how that actually 1:19:28.680 --> 1:19:33.639 functioned psychologically. It's like a short book. It's this way 1:19:33.680 --> 1:19:36.240 for the gas ladies and gentlemen. And it is a 1:19:36.320 --> 1:19:39.760 quasi fictionalized book by a guy named Taddius Borowski who 1:19:39.840 --> 1:19:41.840 was a survivor of the death camp. So it's based 1:19:41.840 --> 1:19:45.800 on his experiences at Auschwitzendakau Um and he he describes 1:19:45.920 --> 1:19:49.599 the way in which the world of the camps worked 1:19:49.640 --> 1:19:53.080 and the psychology of the camps worked. Um. And he's 1:19:53.120 --> 1:19:55.799 not and he's not a piece of ship grifter asshole. 1:19:55.840 --> 1:19:58.040 He's a guy who lived through all of this. So 1:19:58.080 --> 1:20:00.599 if you actually care about any of this, just read 1:20:00.680 --> 1:20:03.360 that everything this guy says is wrong, and if I 1:20:03.439 --> 1:20:04.880 had a chance to, I would hit him in the 1:20:04.880 --> 1:20:08.040 face with a brick. Please continue, Garrison. Yeah, it really 1:20:08.080 --> 1:20:12.480 sucks because it's not just a combination of medical misinformation 1:20:12.560 --> 1:20:17.240 but also just the most ship sociology. UM, and it 1:20:17.360 --> 1:20:22.720 creates this a really a really disgusting package of of 1:20:22.720 --> 1:20:26.960 of really bad sociology medical misinformation. Um. And like yeah, 1:20:27.000 --> 1:20:30.559 he's doing this too, like because he can make a 1:20:30.560 --> 1:20:32.479 profit off of it, So he's saying these things. So 1:20:32.560 --> 1:20:36.400 I know, UM, he mentioned a name, Desmond. Desmond's the 1:20:36.400 --> 1:20:39.160 guy who kind of coined this term. We'll we'll talk 1:20:39.160 --> 1:20:41.559 about more about him at the end, but for now, 1:20:41.960 --> 1:20:44.000 let's go on an ad break and we'll be back 1:20:44.280 --> 1:20:48.000 to talk about Dr Robert Malone, the other other guy 1:20:48.040 --> 1:20:53.200 who's been pushing this nonsense. So I probably will want 1:20:53.200 --> 1:20:57.800 to hit with a brick even more so, honestly. And 1:20:57.880 --> 1:21:02.960 we're back talking now about mass formation, psychosis and the 1:21:03.040 --> 1:21:06.280 dumb people who are well or smart people who are 1:21:06.360 --> 1:21:12.160 using they're they're evil. That tough. So yeah. So after 1:21:12.320 --> 1:21:15.439 after McColl went on Rogan's show, it got that that 1:21:15.439 --> 1:21:19.439 show got pretty popular. UM. One one big right wing 1:21:19.520 --> 1:21:23.080 kind of Trumpett media personality named Melissa Tate was permanently 1:21:23.080 --> 1:21:25.719 banned from Twitter after posting about the podcast and making 1:21:25.720 --> 1:21:29.560 the following post to her half a million followers, Global Bombshale. 1:21:29.720 --> 1:21:32.519 Dr Peter McCall on the Joe Rogan Show says Maderna 1:21:32.560 --> 1:21:35.200 made the Coode vaccine long before COVID actually hit, and 1:21:35.200 --> 1:21:38.599 that the pandemic was a premeditated and concerted scheme by 1:21:38.600 --> 1:21:42.200 government and medical entities to then force vaccinations as the solution. 1:21:43.160 --> 1:21:46.519 So that's the type of narrative that they're trying to 1:21:46.560 --> 1:21:50.599 foster because the pandemics has been so good for Biden's 1:21:50.640 --> 1:21:54.200 approval ratings. It's really working out great for everybody. Uh 1:21:54.479 --> 1:21:57.679 us U S Senator Ron Johnson also promoted the interview, 1:21:57.800 --> 1:22:04.720 saying Rogan asks excellent questions, McCall provides the answers. So yeah, um. 1:22:04.760 --> 1:22:08.760 So apparently the mass formation Psychosis Doctor Guy was enough 1:22:08.760 --> 1:22:11.760 of a hit that Rogan's team decided to very soon 1:22:12.120 --> 1:22:17.720 after bring on another line, conspiracy doctor doctor Robert Malone. 1:22:18.160 --> 1:22:23.840 So during the last week, Rogan invited Malone onto his show. 1:22:24.200 --> 1:22:29.120 Malone's of of a virologist and and a immunization doctor 1:22:29.240 --> 1:22:32.680 who claims credit for inventing the m r n A 1:22:32.920 --> 1:22:37.240 vaccine in a pair of papers from the late eighties spoilers, 1:22:37.280 --> 1:22:40.160 he did not there was the vaccine before him, and 1:22:40.240 --> 1:22:45.640 work continued after him. Yeah yeah, um yeah. In in 1:22:45.720 --> 1:22:50.520 eighty nine, he published a paper UM kind of positing 1:22:50.800 --> 1:22:54.720 maybe mr NA can be binded with with other kind 1:22:54.720 --> 1:22:58.519 of uh proteins. He did not really do any work 1:22:58.560 --> 1:23:01.519 on it besides just sing, I wonder if this could 1:23:01.560 --> 1:23:07.519 maybe happen, um, and then knowledge were people asking similar 1:23:07.600 --> 1:23:12.840 questions and publishing papers at the same time of the question. Yeah. 1:23:12.960 --> 1:23:16.799 So Malone actually thought this was too hard and abandoned 1:23:16.800 --> 1:23:19.559 this project very soon and then went to work for 1:23:19.600 --> 1:23:23.200 like the military to develop other random like uh. He 1:23:23.520 --> 1:23:25.559 thought the RNA vaccines were too hard, so he went 1:23:25.560 --> 1:23:29.479 on to develop more stuff around DNA vaccines and has 1:23:29.520 --> 1:23:32.400 been working with like the military and various like big 1:23:32.439 --> 1:23:36.360 farmer companies fun vaccines for a while. More accurately, Dr 1:23:36.479 --> 1:23:39.840 Carrico and Drew Wiseman are two doctors that are widely 1:23:39.880 --> 1:23:42.840 agreed and acknowledged to have put the most development work 1:23:43.040 --> 1:23:46.400 and actual like like actually doing the science to make 1:23:47.080 --> 1:23:50.519 m M RNA vaccines a thing, um. And then of 1:23:50.560 --> 1:23:53.160 course development of them was due to you know, work 1:23:53.200 --> 1:23:56.840 of hundreds of researchers. UM. So it's it's not you know, 1:23:56.960 --> 1:23:59.400 one person does not invent something like this, it's it's 1:23:59.400 --> 1:24:01.080 a group of a lot of people. But but it 1:24:01.160 --> 1:24:04.960 makes it for an easy title for your viral video. Yes, 1:24:05.040 --> 1:24:09.479 and in fact, actually um uh logically, the That's a 1:24:09.560 --> 1:24:13.799 Journalist website reached out to Malone and for an article, 1:24:13.840 --> 1:24:17.280 and Malone replied Black stating that he did not actually 1:24:17.400 --> 1:24:22.600 literally invent the the vaccine, but instead developed a vaccine 1:24:22.600 --> 1:24:29.160 technology platform. Um. Then he presented logically copies with nine patents, um, 1:24:29.240 --> 1:24:32.400 none of which are the patents for functioning mrn A 1:24:32.520 --> 1:24:37.400 vaccines of course. Um. But but he he claims to 1:24:37.439 --> 1:24:41.160 have patented mr and A technology. I mean he did. 1:24:41.200 --> 1:24:44.479 It's technology that doesn't work and never has and never 1:24:44.560 --> 1:24:48.080 has worked, and the patents are expired. Um. Anyway, I 1:24:48.120 --> 1:24:50.120 need to pat some ship. That just sounds like a 1:24:50.160 --> 1:24:53.599 real easy way to make a good grift. Yeah. So, 1:24:53.760 --> 1:25:01.000 you know, as we've seen with my O, but because 1:25:01.040 --> 1:25:03.720 because Malone has crafted this you know, narrative that I'm 1:25:03.800 --> 1:25:06.200 the inventor of this thing. You know, look, just like 1:25:06.240 --> 1:25:08.759 we've seen with my like COVID Griffin name Doctor's episode 1:25:08.760 --> 1:25:11.639 behind the Bastards, just a little shred of like medical 1:25:11.640 --> 1:25:15.080 authority can be more often transformed with propaganda into something 1:25:15.160 --> 1:25:17.800 much greater than what it is, you know, whether that 1:25:17.840 --> 1:25:20.400 be claiming to be the inventor of the m R 1:25:20.439 --> 1:25:22.639 and A or you know, claiming to be the former 1:25:22.640 --> 1:25:25.519 Heads Scientists adviser. Neither of those have to actually be 1:25:25.640 --> 1:25:30.920 true to work, because propaganda makes it true via like repetition. 1:25:31.320 --> 1:25:33.240 So yeah, it's it's the kind of thing where like 1:25:33.320 --> 1:25:36.040 dunking on these guys like it's important here to correct 1:25:36.080 --> 1:25:38.880 the record, it doesn't do anything. No, the fact that 1:25:38.920 --> 1:25:41.439 they and nothing that they say is true does not 1:25:41.680 --> 1:25:44.000 matter when it comes to them having an influence in 1:25:44.000 --> 1:25:46.920 the community they have. If you get on Rogan, it 1:25:47.080 --> 1:25:49.360 doesn't like like you've already done the thing that you 1:25:49.400 --> 1:25:51.600 need to do to be able to to profit from this. 1:25:51.680 --> 1:25:54.320 It doesn't matter that you're lying. A few months ago, 1:25:54.400 --> 1:25:56.280 Malone went on to Steve Bannon Show to talk about 1:25:56.280 --> 1:25:59.320 how the vaccines make COVID worse worse actually, and you 1:25:59.360 --> 1:26:01.080 know this is the is the quote from Steve Bannon. 1:26:01.400 --> 1:26:03.680 You're hearing it from the individual who invented the m 1:26:03.760 --> 1:26:06.960 R and A vaccine and has dedicated his life to vaccines. 1:26:07.160 --> 1:26:10.040 He's the opposite of an anti vaxer, right, So it's 1:26:10.080 --> 1:26:15.800 it's it's that picular. So yeah, start starting around June one, 1:26:15.920 --> 1:26:19.599 Malone began to make the rounds you know, Bannon Tucker, 1:26:19.800 --> 1:26:23.439 Glenn Beck, um, and now Joe Rogan. So you know, 1:26:23.520 --> 1:26:26.200 starting in June, he had like less than five thousand 1:26:26.479 --> 1:26:30.160 Twitter followers. Uh and just before his suspension at the 1:26:30.200 --> 1:26:33.439 end of December for spreading misinformation, he had like over 1:26:33.479 --> 1:26:39.599 half million. Um. So yeah, So right after his Twitter 1:26:39.720 --> 1:26:43.680 suspension for lying about COVID and causing you know, misinformation 1:26:43.720 --> 1:26:47.200 to run to to run rampant around a health issue. Um, 1:26:47.240 --> 1:26:49.719 that's when Rogan invited him on and was right after 1:26:49.720 --> 1:26:52.839 he got suspended from Twitter. And there's been one particular 1:26:52.840 --> 1:26:55.600 clip from the interview that has really caught like the 1:26:55.600 --> 1:26:58.840 far right's attention. Um, you know, the tweet that's it's 1:26:58.920 --> 1:27:02.000 it's connected to it was captioned on Joe Rogan. Dr 1:27:02.120 --> 1:27:05.080 Robert Malone suggests we are living through a mass formation psychosis. 1:27:05.320 --> 1:27:08.080 He explains how and why this could happen and its effects. 1:27:08.439 --> 1:27:11.680 He draws analogy to the nineteen twenties and thirties Germany. 1:27:11.760 --> 1:27:15.640 They had a highly educated population and they went barking mad. Um, 1:27:16.200 --> 1:27:18.760 they did not. They made a series of logical The 1:27:18.840 --> 1:27:21.559 Nazis did not go mad. They were not crazy, They 1:27:21.560 --> 1:27:24.599 were not out of their mind. They were doing they 1:27:24.600 --> 1:27:27.040 were a large part of what they were doing was 1:27:27.240 --> 1:27:30.720 saying things that they knew were nonsense and lies in 1:27:30.840 --> 1:27:33.439 order to get elected because it riled people up. And 1:27:33.479 --> 1:27:35.880 then a large chunk of their policy was figuring out, well, 1:27:35.880 --> 1:27:38.000 if this is the ship that we've been saying, how 1:27:38.000 --> 1:27:40.759 do we how do we translate that into policy? Again, 1:27:41.120 --> 1:27:45.800 realms have been written on this by credible researchers. The 1:27:45.840 --> 1:27:48.519 people who ran the camps were not insane, although they 1:27:48.520 --> 1:27:52.000 were often deeply depressed in suicidal because it's not good 1:27:52.000 --> 1:27:55.919 to run a death camp, they were all making rational decisions. 1:27:55.920 --> 1:27:58.240 And the people who let it happen, we're letting it 1:27:58.320 --> 1:28:03.000 happen because it was dangerous and scary to interfere in 1:28:03.000 --> 1:28:05.720 any way. They were all making rational decisions. There was 1:28:05.760 --> 1:28:09.720 no insanity responsible for the Holocaust, which is worse like 1:28:09.840 --> 1:28:11.960 in the party everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What they're like, 1:28:11.960 --> 1:28:14.080 they're they're what they're doing is like they're they're they're 1:28:14.120 --> 1:28:16.000 they're trying to give people a way out right like that, 1:28:16.160 --> 1:28:18.320 you know, this is this is sort of like, oh, 1:28:18.400 --> 1:28:20.320 it's well, the Nazis went insane. All the people who 1:28:20.320 --> 1:28:22.400 follow them went and saying it's like, no, no, they don't. 1:28:22.479 --> 1:28:25.320 You don't get that way out like you. They chose 1:28:25.360 --> 1:28:28.599 to do this. Yeah. The the scariest and most meaningful 1:28:28.680 --> 1:28:30.960 lesson to take from the Holocaust is that you yourself 1:28:31.080 --> 1:28:33.040 could be a part of a holocaust, even if you 1:28:33.080 --> 1:28:36.640 didn't support the killing, because it's extremely easy to not 1:28:36.800 --> 1:28:39.360 get involved and stop something like that once it reaches 1:28:39.400 --> 1:28:41.720 a certain level. And it's easy for the kind of 1:28:41.720 --> 1:28:45.360 political organizations that can make things like that possible to 1:28:45.520 --> 1:28:47.519 reach a point where they can carry that sort of 1:28:47.520 --> 1:28:51.559 ship out because again, it's scary to fucking fight them. Uh, 1:28:51.720 --> 1:28:54.400 let's want the clips like a minute long, and I 1:28:54.439 --> 1:28:57.560 think it's worth watching to see both in the context 1:28:57.600 --> 1:29:00.000 of when Rogan decides to interject and when he decid 1:29:00.040 --> 1:29:04.080 it's not too basically European intellectual inquiry into what the 1:29:04.120 --> 1:29:08.200 heck happened in the twenties and thirties. You know, very intelligent, 1:29:08.280 --> 1:29:12.200 highly educated population and they went barking mad um And 1:29:12.640 --> 1:29:18.000 how did that happen? Um? The answer is mass formation psychosis. 1:29:18.400 --> 1:29:21.720 When you have a society that has become decoupled from 1:29:21.720 --> 1:29:25.599 each other and has free floating anxiety in a sense 1:29:25.720 --> 1:29:29.720 that things don't make sense, we can't understand it, and 1:29:29.800 --> 1:29:32.439 then their attention gets focused by a leader or a 1:29:32.439 --> 1:29:35.880 series of events on one small point. Just like hypnosis, 1:29:36.920 --> 1:29:41.400 they literally become hypnotized and can be led anywhere. And 1:29:41.560 --> 1:29:44.240 one of the aspects of that phenomena is the people 1:29:44.240 --> 1:29:47.200 that they identify as their leaders, the ones typically that 1:29:47.280 --> 1:29:50.160 come in and say, you have this pain, and I 1:29:50.200 --> 1:29:52.880 can solve it for you. I and I alone, okay, 1:29:53.040 --> 1:29:55.920 can fix this problem for you. Okay. Then they will lead. 1:29:56.000 --> 1:29:58.679 They will follow that person through how It doesn't matter 1:29:58.680 --> 1:30:02.360 whether they lie to them or whatever. The data are irrelevant. 1:30:02.840 --> 1:30:07.120 And furthermore, anybody who questions that narrative is to be 1:30:07.160 --> 1:30:11.160 immediately attacked. They are the other. This is central to 1:30:11.400 --> 1:30:15.519 mass formation psychosis, and this is what has happened. We 1:30:15.600 --> 1:30:20.559 had all those conditions. If you remember back before, everybody 1:30:20.600 --> 1:30:24.400 was complaining the world doesn't make sense, blah blah blah um, 1:30:24.439 --> 1:30:26.960 and we're all isolated from each other, we're all on 1:30:26.960 --> 1:30:31.000 our little tools, we're not connected socially anymore except through 1:30:31.040 --> 1:30:34.799 social media. Um. And then this thing happened and everybody 1:30:34.800 --> 1:30:38.599 focused on it. That is how mass formation psychosis happens, 1:30:39.040 --> 1:30:44.080 and that is what's happened here. Horrible, completely wrong, um 1:30:44.120 --> 1:30:47.800 in every single way. UM. They the Germans were not 1:30:48.000 --> 1:30:51.280 confused because nothing made sense. They were angry because of 1:30:51.320 --> 1:30:53.360 the terms of the Treaty of Versailles. That were also 1:30:53.520 --> 1:30:56.519 angry because of what they saw as and what like, 1:30:56.840 --> 1:30:59.080 because of a myth that had grown up about why 1:30:59.120 --> 1:31:01.200 they had lost the first to World War, which was 1:31:01.240 --> 1:31:03.559 spread by people who were the equivalent in that time 1:31:03.600 --> 1:31:07.240 of Joe Rogan. They were scared of the left, of communism, 1:31:07.320 --> 1:31:10.559 of disorder, of riots in the streets, um and one 1:31:10.680 --> 1:31:13.960 whin Hitler took power. Most Germans did not like him. 1:31:14.000 --> 1:31:17.800 They did not blindly follow him. He gradually gained the 1:31:17.920 --> 1:31:21.000 vast the support of the vast majority of Germany through 1:31:21.000 --> 1:31:23.640 a number of different, very logical things. One thing that 1:31:23.680 --> 1:31:25.479 he did that got him a lot of support was 1:31:25.520 --> 1:31:29.800 he took businesses and homes and money from Jewish people 1:31:29.880 --> 1:31:32.759 and from members of other groups that the Nazis were targeting, 1:31:32.920 --> 1:31:35.200 and he gave it to Arians. There was a direct 1:31:35.280 --> 1:31:37.360 financial interest for a lot of people who got in 1:31:37.400 --> 1:31:40.000 line behind the Nazis, and he established a series of 1:31:40.000 --> 1:31:42.439 programs like the Strength through Joy program, that really did 1:31:42.560 --> 1:31:45.320 benefit in a way that they had not known before 1:31:45.640 --> 1:31:48.160 the German working class um. And a lot of this 1:31:48.240 --> 1:31:51.240 was again subsidized through the appropriations of things that had 1:31:51.240 --> 1:31:53.920 been owned by people that the Nazis were targeting. People 1:31:53.960 --> 1:31:56.360 fell in line behind Hitler for logical reasons. He did 1:31:56.360 --> 1:31:58.800 not reach the highest point of his support from the 1:31:58.800 --> 1:32:02.559 German populace until the taking of Paris, which obviously that 1:32:02.720 --> 1:32:04.920 was something that a lot of Germans supported. They had 1:32:04.920 --> 1:32:07.400 spent four years failing to take the city in World 1:32:07.439 --> 1:32:11.679 War One. Um. Anyway, Sorry, it's all nonsense, it's all lies. 1:32:12.680 --> 1:32:15.479 I think the reason why this is latching on so 1:32:15.560 --> 1:32:17.960 much to people on the right, like people on the 1:32:18.040 --> 1:32:20.880 right who who don't consider themselves fascists, who who think 1:32:21.200 --> 1:32:24.080 who would say Nazis are bad, right, there's they still 1:32:24.240 --> 1:32:27.360 are latching onto this because it provides a way for 1:32:27.400 --> 1:32:31.680 them to not understand how fascism actually works. Right. It 1:32:32.320 --> 1:32:35.880 provides an alternative explanation that makes them not have to 1:32:35.920 --> 1:32:40.320 actually think about what fascism is. Um. And that's why 1:32:40.360 --> 1:32:43.160 they're latching onto it. And it also is already it's 1:32:43.200 --> 1:32:46.919 already a part of the conspiracies they have around vaccines 1:32:46.960 --> 1:32:51.439 and power structures. So because because it's the conspiratorial basis, 1:32:51.479 --> 1:32:53.960 instead of like thinking about power structures from like an 1:32:53.960 --> 1:32:58.679 anarchistical like like hierarchy lens, it reinforces the world views 1:32:58.720 --> 1:33:00.600 they have and makes them not half to interrogate the 1:33:00.640 --> 1:33:04.959 ones that they don't want to. Um it sucks. Malone's 1:33:05.040 --> 1:33:08.280 substack goes into more of this and it's it's it's 1:33:08.280 --> 1:33:10.280 pretty bad. There's a this is a few quotes that 1:33:10.320 --> 1:33:12.000 I think really kind of tied this together, and then 1:33:12.000 --> 1:33:15.479 he has some horrible statistics. Um. He says, as many 1:33:15.520 --> 1:33:17.759 of you know, I've spent time researching and speaking about 1:33:17.760 --> 1:33:20.519 mass psychosis theory. Most of what I've learned is come 1:33:20.640 --> 1:33:23.840 from Dr Desmond. Dr Desmond is like the guy who 1:33:24.280 --> 1:33:29.200 pointed this term um and uh, Malone writes. Desmond realized 1:33:29.280 --> 1:33:32.400 that this form of mass hypnosis, the madness of crowds, 1:33:32.520 --> 1:33:35.760 can account for the strange phenomenon of about of the 1:33:35.760 --> 1:33:38.960 population in the Western world becoming entranched with the noble 1:33:39.080 --> 1:33:42.800 lies and dominant narrative concerning the safety and effectiveness of 1:33:42.840 --> 1:33:47.600 the genetic vaccines, and both propagated and enforced by politicians, 1:33:47.840 --> 1:33:52.280 science bureaucrats, pharmaceutical companies and legacy media. Of course, the 1:33:52.320 --> 1:33:55.519 obvious examples of massformation is Germany in the thirties and forties. 1:33:55.920 --> 1:33:58.200 How could the German people, who are highly educated, very 1:33:58.240 --> 1:34:00.960 liberal in the classic sense west in thinking people, how 1:34:01.000 --> 1:34:02.479 could they go crazy and do what they did to 1:34:02.520 --> 1:34:04.880 the Jews? How could this happen to a civilized people. 1:34:05.200 --> 1:34:07.800 A leader of a mass formation movement will use the 1:34:07.800 --> 1:34:10.280 platform to continue to pump the group of information to 1:34:10.360 --> 1:34:12.840 focus on. In the case of COVID nineteen, I like 1:34:12.920 --> 1:34:16.200 to use the term fear porn. Leaders through mainstream media 1:34:16.200 --> 1:34:19.519 and government channel and government channels continuously feed the beast 1:34:19.560 --> 1:34:24.080 with more messaging that further hypnotize their adherents. Studies suggest 1:34:24.240 --> 1:34:29.360 that mass formation follows a general distribution. People are brainwashed 1:34:29.360 --> 1:34:33.760 and hypnotized fully doctor and in the group narrative. In 1:34:33.800 --> 1:34:36.960 the middle are persuaded and may follow if no where 1:34:36.960 --> 1:34:40.519 the alternatives perceived, and thirty percent will fight the narrative. 1:34:41.000 --> 1:34:43.280 Those who rebel and fight against the narrative become the 1:34:43.400 --> 1:34:46.600 enemy of the brainwashed and the primary target of aggression. 1:34:47.720 --> 1:34:51.280 So that's the way he thinks. That is how which 1:34:51.320 --> 1:34:54.360 is really it's really subjing Like in terms of how 1:34:55.040 --> 1:34:58.240 he's building a narrative in his head and specifically building 1:34:58.280 --> 1:35:01.519 a narrative for other people's heads to to view. Why 1:35:01.560 --> 1:35:04.760 do I feel distrustful of certain pieces of power but 1:35:05.000 --> 1:35:08.479 love other pieces of power? Yeah, and it's again like 1:35:08.560 --> 1:35:11.440 this idea that like well, Germany was liberals there, Germany 1:35:11.439 --> 1:35:14.560 had an enormous right wing movement, Like it was a 1:35:14.640 --> 1:35:16.800 hugely conservative country in a lot of ways. It would 1:35:16.800 --> 1:35:19.200 also had a lot of leftist organizing and a lot 1:35:19.200 --> 1:35:22.000 of leftists in it, especially after World War One, but 1:35:22.080 --> 1:35:25.080 like the fry Corps ship, there were these massive, million 1:35:25.280 --> 1:35:28.840 strong right wing armed street movements that existed for the 1:35:29.040 --> 1:35:32.680 entirety of the Weimar Republic. Like it's again everything he 1:35:32.720 --> 1:35:36.559 says is wrong. Yeah, and again it's like the notion 1:35:36.600 --> 1:35:39.880 that like are fully burnwashed, are in the middle of 1:35:39.960 --> 1:35:42.880 persuadable fight the narrative, it's like these these people who 1:35:42.920 --> 1:35:46.320 are upset, these like these specifically conservatives, were obsessed about 1:35:46.320 --> 1:35:48.840 thinking like I would have fought the Nazis. And because 1:35:48.880 --> 1:35:50.960 they don't understand how fashions and works and power dynamics, 1:35:51.000 --> 1:35:55.040 they don't understand how how they're actually getting pulled into 1:35:55.080 --> 1:35:57.640 the same thing. But they still view themselves as the 1:35:57.680 --> 1:36:01.519 rebel right. They there's everybody wants to be right. Yeah, 1:36:01.560 --> 1:36:04.680 like they're still focused on being Yeah, it's absolutely like 1:36:04.720 --> 1:36:07.000 they're still focused on being the rebel and like we're 1:36:07.040 --> 1:36:09.639 rebelling against the vaccine that that is just like rebelling 1:36:09.640 --> 1:36:14.320 aginst the Nazis. And you're like, what, um, so I 1:36:14.360 --> 1:36:17.479 just want to say about those numbers if they're too 1:36:17.520 --> 1:36:20.160 completely made up? Yeah, yeah, when when people start throwing 1:36:20.439 --> 1:36:23.439 even numbers statistic exactly like that, it's because they're lying. Yeah, 1:36:23.439 --> 1:36:31.720 it's because yeah, yeah, absolutely not. Yeah, that's that's complete nonsense. 1:36:31.800 --> 1:36:37.439 For one. Yeah, it's so so I get because now, 1:36:37.760 --> 1:36:39.720 the other thing that happened around this interview, because it 1:36:39.920 --> 1:36:42.280 didn't give a lot of traction among the right, is 1:36:42.280 --> 1:36:44.879 that whenever these things gained traction, they also developed conspiracy 1:36:44.920 --> 1:36:47.360 theories that people are trying to suppress it. Like look 1:36:47.400 --> 1:36:50.360 at the Google algorithm when you type in certain keywords 1:36:50.439 --> 1:36:52.640 like I know that the day this was trending, it 1:36:52.680 --> 1:36:56.200 was like if you google dr Malone, the interviews only 1:36:56.240 --> 1:36:58.479 like the sixth result, The first one is this YouTube 1:36:58.520 --> 1:37:00.360 video debunky and like I did this and like no, 1:37:00.680 --> 1:37:03.559 the first result was the obviously viral video of him 1:37:03.600 --> 1:37:06.280 saying the thing, Like they just they can take one 1:37:06.320 --> 1:37:09.800 screenshot that maybe someone made or maybe because of one 1:37:09.800 --> 1:37:12.800 person's computer algorithm that's what gave them and use this 1:37:12.840 --> 1:37:15.479 as like evidence that this is the entire system of 1:37:15.479 --> 1:37:17.800 the Internet suppressing the thing. Like, no, the Internet wants 1:37:17.840 --> 1:37:20.320 things to go viral. Now, there's certain things where they 1:37:20.360 --> 1:37:22.880 like trying to shut down the spread of dangerous stuff, 1:37:23.080 --> 1:37:26.400 but this got very viral. This was not contained in 1:37:26.400 --> 1:37:29.320 any way, but because of this notion like they're trying 1:37:29.320 --> 1:37:31.160 to hide it, you know, it plays into their them 1:37:31.200 --> 1:37:33.840 thinking they're like they're them thinking that they are the 1:37:33.840 --> 1:37:37.280 rebels or something. And there's also a very practical reason 1:37:37.439 --> 1:37:40.800 why the people who particularly know that they're lying do this, 1:37:40.880 --> 1:37:44.559 and it's because all of their success is based on 1:37:44.600 --> 1:37:48.000 a foundation of the way in which YouTube and Facebook 1:37:48.040 --> 1:37:52.679 and Twitter algorithmically amplified them and their predecessors, and they 1:37:52.720 --> 1:37:56.160 know that creating controversy over the fact that they're being 1:37:56.240 --> 1:38:01.080 suppressed um leads to more content that jin's that basically 1:38:01.280 --> 1:38:04.439 algorithmically spreads their stuff more because more people are talking 1:38:04.479 --> 1:38:06.920 about it, because other people's channels start debating it, because 1:38:07.160 --> 1:38:09.200 idiots on the left are like, well, we should at 1:38:09.240 --> 1:38:11.680 least have them on platform them because we're anti censorship too, 1:38:11.680 --> 1:38:13.799 so let's debate them. And like all of this stupid 1:38:13.800 --> 1:38:18.760 ship feeds into spreading their stuff. It's a very intelligent strategy. Um, 1:38:18.800 --> 1:38:21.559 I hate it, but just in just in terms of 1:38:21.600 --> 1:38:23.920 how ridiculous it is. I know, a few days ago, 1:38:24.400 --> 1:38:29.840 a Congressman Troy Nells said that I submitted the transcript 1:38:29.880 --> 1:38:32.799 from the Joe Rogan Experience podcast episode with Dr Malone 1:38:32.920 --> 1:38:36.320 to the Congressional Record. Big tech wants to restrict your access, 1:38:36.400 --> 1:38:39.799 your access to information, but they cannot censor the Congressional Record. 1:38:40.200 --> 1:38:43.360 Not tech is the entire reason why you know about 1:38:43.400 --> 1:38:47.360 these people. Yeah, entirely. So if it were not for 1:38:47.439 --> 1:38:51.479 big tech, Joe Rogan would be narrating videos of robots fighting. 1:38:52.040 --> 1:38:56.360 So Jack so Beak got real into this because he 1:38:56.400 --> 1:38:58.960 loves anything that goes viral. If it weren't for big Tech, 1:38:59.040 --> 1:39:01.519 Jacks Obak would have died in the ditch of an 1:39:01.520 --> 1:39:05.320 oxycontent overdose. So he he got real into it. He 1:39:05.400 --> 1:39:08.080 changed his like he changed his Twitter name to Jack 1:39:08.479 --> 1:39:12.400 mass Formation, psychosis, psychosa Beck or some bullshit like that. 1:39:14.320 --> 1:39:17.240 Stupid and it was it was tweeting about a NonStop 1:39:17.280 --> 1:39:19.679 for a week and like like a kid learning about 1:39:19.680 --> 1:39:22.680 a new topic because of synchronicity, He's he's gonna like 1:39:22.880 --> 1:39:25.880 projected onto everything he sees now because like this this 1:39:25.960 --> 1:39:28.759 new all encompassing topic that makes you avoid what fashions 1:39:28.760 --> 1:39:31.400 them actually is and then point out at the things 1:39:31.439 --> 1:39:33.360 you don't like. So of course he's gonna apply to 1:39:33.439 --> 1:39:36.800 everything he He made a tweet right before January six, 1:39:37.479 --> 1:39:41.599 um as the anniversary of the Capitol intermpted ku thing. 1:39:42.240 --> 1:39:45.360 Regime media has launched a propaganda push against Ashley Babbitt 1:39:45.400 --> 1:39:49.400 today to psychologically prep their flock for the upcoming mass 1:39:49.439 --> 1:39:54.120 formation event planned for January six this week. This this 1:39:54.200 --> 1:39:58.400 is called priming and it's a textbook mass formation theory tactic. 1:39:58.840 --> 1:40:03.160 Wait till you see what of next? And it is 1:40:03.200 --> 1:40:07.240 the sixth today, has anything? What happened? Not goddamn thing? 1:40:07.400 --> 1:40:12.240 They got fucking Linn madwell Morenda does sing songs dedts, 1:40:12.240 --> 1:40:15.880 you got gnel from Miranda? Did you see that? That 1:40:16.000 --> 1:40:18.840 wasn't He might have said something in the beginning that 1:40:18.880 --> 1:40:21.559 was due, but the performance has been played before on 1:40:21.640 --> 1:40:24.200 other things. Well and I am you know what, if 1:40:24.200 --> 1:40:26.360 we're taught trying to reach across the aisle. I am 1:40:26.439 --> 1:40:30.759 willing to admit that the popularity of lin Manuel Miranda 1:40:30.880 --> 1:40:38.320 might be a mass formation psychosis. Absolutely, the popularity of 1:40:38.320 --> 1:40:42.760 Hamilton's is a massformation psychos its. Absolutely, we're just being assholes. 1:40:42.760 --> 1:40:45.559 But like, like seriously like it again, but it doesn't 1:40:45.600 --> 1:40:49.160 it does. The fuck is when it when it comes 1:40:49.200 --> 1:40:52.800 to again like the fact that he said there's gonna 1:40:52.840 --> 1:40:58.040 be this whatever psych mass formation psychosis event on the 1:40:58.080 --> 1:41:00.400 anniversary of January six, then it's going to be huge. 1:41:00.400 --> 1:41:03.800 Watch for it. Nothing happens, doesn't matter, never matters, will 1:41:03.840 --> 1:41:08.760 never matter. Um because again, like it's it's I think 1:41:08.760 --> 1:41:10.439 one of the issues that we have here is the 1:41:10.479 --> 1:41:14.479 degree to which brain brainwashing and hypnosis and stuff are 1:41:14.479 --> 1:41:16.960 talked about within kind of discussions of a cultic milieu 1:41:17.200 --> 1:41:20.280 when they're not really a factor, not a factor in cults, 1:41:19.760 --> 1:41:22.559 not nearly as much as you think, yea, and not 1:41:22.640 --> 1:41:24.160 in the way that you think. There's things that like 1:41:24.200 --> 1:41:27.360 you could call brainwashing, but the the and you could 1:41:27.360 --> 1:41:31.640 even maybe call hypnosis, although that's a lot murkier. It 1:41:31.760 --> 1:41:34.880 is a very technical thing. Yeah, But but the what 1:41:35.080 --> 1:41:38.439 actually like the stuff that's actually happens. Again, it's always 1:41:38.520 --> 1:41:41.160 much more logical and rational if you can just inhabit 1:41:41.479 --> 1:41:44.799 the mental space of the people who are in those 1:41:44.840 --> 1:41:47.920 communities because of what they're primed to believe first and 1:41:47.960 --> 1:41:50.679 because of what is happening socially, because of the degree 1:41:50.720 --> 1:41:53.480 to which they isolate themselves from people who are outside 1:41:53.479 --> 1:41:56.559 of that bubble. Like, that's why it's so hard to 1:41:56.600 --> 1:41:59.360 get them out. It's not that like magically their brains 1:41:59.360 --> 1:42:02.360 have been taken over. It's that they have pretty methodically 1:42:02.479 --> 1:42:07.840 been put into a position where rejecting what is being 1:42:07.920 --> 1:42:12.160 told to them within this context is immensely more painful, 1:42:12.680 --> 1:42:16.559 um than just continuing to believe things that are not true. Um. 1:42:16.600 --> 1:42:19.519 And there are more consequences for it, you know. Um, 1:42:19.600 --> 1:42:22.719 you lose a support network, you lose a great deal 1:42:22.800 --> 1:42:25.840 of of of your own opinion of yourself and your 1:42:25.880 --> 1:42:29.360 self worth if you start to reject this stuff. Um. And, 1:42:29.400 --> 1:42:31.360 once you can trap people in that, it's the same 1:42:31.400 --> 1:42:35.240 way that scientology works. Once you can trap people in that, um, 1:42:35.479 --> 1:42:38.200 it's the evidence of their eyes and the fact that 1:42:38.240 --> 1:42:41.080 like they're obviously being lied to and the things that 1:42:41.120 --> 1:42:43.160 they're being told about don't come to pass. It's this. 1:42:43.320 --> 1:42:45.840 It's the reason why you have a bunch of apocalyptic 1:42:45.880 --> 1:42:47.600 cults who say the days the world is going to 1:42:47.720 --> 1:42:50.200 end on this day and time that day and time comes, 1:42:50.240 --> 1:42:54.240 the world doesn't end, and the cult goes on. You know, yeah, 1:42:54.280 --> 1:42:57.360 it's pretty it's pretty ridiculous. This, this whole thing was 1:42:57.400 --> 1:43:01.800 started by this professor of uncle psychology at a at 1:43:01.800 --> 1:43:05.680 a university in Belgium, Matthias Desmot. He seems to have 1:43:05.760 --> 1:43:10.800 a pretty bad understanding of history and actual like power structures, 1:43:10.840 --> 1:43:14.360 and does not know the least bit about fascism um, 1:43:14.400 --> 1:43:16.280 and has trying to craft this thing to fill in 1:43:16.320 --> 1:43:19.439 the gaps in his own knowledge and applies it to everything. 1:43:19.680 --> 1:43:22.839 And I've read some of his stuff. It's it's nonsense. Um. 1:43:23.080 --> 1:43:25.840 Again that just like the doctors who talked about it, 1:43:25.840 --> 1:43:28.080 they're like, yeah, he's using this also is a way 1:43:28.120 --> 1:43:30.800 to explain how COVID is not real and how the 1:43:30.880 --> 1:43:35.360 vaccine is a is a ploy to do bad thing. 1:43:35.840 --> 1:43:41.800 It's it's all ridiculous, it's irresponsible, um. And they're using 1:43:41.800 --> 1:43:44.360 it as a tactic and hopefully it's just gonna blow over, 1:43:44.439 --> 1:43:46.760 but I'm sure it'll pop up everyone every once in 1:43:46.800 --> 1:43:48.680 a while again just like it popped up, you know, 1:43:48.880 --> 1:43:52.519 a few weeks ago. But that's that's really all. I 1:43:52.560 --> 1:43:54.519 all I want to get into it. I I could 1:43:54.560 --> 1:43:59.240 say more, but I think we have said enough. Um, 1:43:59.280 --> 1:44:09.320 all right, all fucket, Yeah, that's it. That's all I've got. 1:44:09.760 --> 1:44:12.919 UM Read This Way for the Gas Ladies and Gentlemen 1:44:13.000 --> 1:44:19.080 by Thaddius Borowski. Um. It will. It will have a 1:44:19.240 --> 1:44:21.719 major impact on the way you see the entire world 1:44:21.800 --> 1:44:25.280 if you if you actually read it. Um, there's some 1:44:25.360 --> 1:44:27.679 incredible pieces in there. One of one of the things 1:44:27.720 --> 1:44:30.679 that the Taddius points out is that like people only 1:44:30.720 --> 1:44:34.879 ever have like one kind of language for for talking 1:44:34.920 --> 1:44:37.960 about like the things that they feel, where whether it's 1:44:38.000 --> 1:44:41.880 something they they kind of vaguely care about or something 1:44:41.880 --> 1:44:44.519 they care about enough to murder over. And so when 1:44:44.600 --> 1:44:47.600 people engage in acts of like horrific violence on a 1:44:47.680 --> 1:44:51.120 mass scale, they often do it looking and acting like 1:44:51.240 --> 1:44:54.719 they would if they were irritated at somebody in traffic. Um. 1:44:54.760 --> 1:44:57.240 And it's the most unsettling thing about being the victim 1:44:57.280 --> 1:44:59.920 of a genocide that you don't see the kind of 1:45:00.040 --> 1:45:02.080 hate and the kind of rage and the kind of 1:45:02.120 --> 1:45:04.160 like what you would expect someone would need to be 1:45:04.200 --> 1:45:07.160 amped up to. It's more of like you see, more 1:45:07.439 --> 1:45:10.920 like kind of boredom and and irritation and all that 1:45:10.960 --> 1:45:16.879 stuff like it's not anyway read read read Daddy Sparowski. Um, 1:45:16.880 --> 1:45:21.160 he's I desperately wish Joe Rogan would just sit and 1:45:21.240 --> 1:45:25.360 narrate this book on his show, because I do actually 1:45:25.360 --> 1:45:32.720 a service in the world. Anyway. Um, that's that's the episode. 1:45:37.520 --> 1:45:41.160 I'm Jake Halbern, host of deep Cover. Our new season 1:45:41.360 --> 1:45:44.200 is about a lawyer who helped the mob run Chicago. 1:45:44.800 --> 1:45:48.760 We control of the courts, We controlled absolutely everything. He 1:45:48.880 --> 1:45:51.840 brobed judges and even helped a hit man walk free, 1:45:52.400 --> 1:45:55.160 until one day when he started talking with the FBI 1:45:55.640 --> 1:45:58.960 and promised that he could take the mob down. I've 1:45:59.000 --> 1:46:01.040 spent the past year trying to figure out why he 1:46:01.120 --> 1:46:04.320 flipped and what he was really after. From my perspective, 1:46:04.520 --> 1:46:06.640 Bob was too good to be true. There's got to 1:46:06.640 --> 1:46:09.360 be something wrong with this. I wouldn't trust the guy. 1:46:09.680 --> 1:46:12.599 He looks like a little scum, big liar, stool bidgi. 1:46:12.680 --> 1:46:14.960 He looked like what he was or at. I can 1:46:15.000 --> 1:46:17.559 say with all certainty I think he's a hero because 1:46:17.560 --> 1:46:19.120 he didn't have to do what he did, and he 1:46:19.160 --> 1:46:21.599 did it anyway. The moment I put the wire around 1:46:21.640 --> 1:46:24.840 the first time, my life was over. If it ever 1:46:24.920 --> 1:46:28.240 got out, they would kill me in a heartbeat. Listen 1:46:28.280 --> 1:46:31.200 to deep Cover on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 1:46:31.280 --> 1:46:36.760 or wherever you get your podcasts. Adoption of teens from 1:46:36.800 --> 1:46:39.280 foster care is a topic not enough people know about, 1:46:39.320 --> 1:46:41.600 and we're here to change that. I'm April didn't what 1:46:41.720 --> 1:46:44.880 the host of the new podcast Navigating Adoption, presented by 1:46:44.960 --> 1:46:48.679 adopt us Kids. Each episode brings you compelling, real life 1:46:48.680 --> 1:46:51.200 adoption stories told by the families that lived them, with 1:46:51.240 --> 1:46:55.919 commentary from experts. Visit adopt us Kids dot org, slash podcast, 1:46:56.040 --> 1:46:59.439 or subscribed to Navigating Adoption presented by adopt Us Kids, 1:46:59.600 --> 1:47:01.320 brought to you by the U S Department of Health 1:47:01.360 --> 1:47:04.200 and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, and the 1:47:04.240 --> 1:47:08.240 ACT Council. This is Roxande Gay, host of The Roxanne 1:47:08.280 --> 1:47:12.320 Gay Agenda, the bad feminist podcast of Your Dreams. Now, 1:47:12.520 --> 1:47:15.639 what is the Roxanne Gay Agenda, you might ask, Well, 1:47:15.920 --> 1:47:18.679 It's a podcast where I'm going to speak my mind 1:47:18.760 --> 1:47:22.040 about what's on my mind, and that could be anything. 1:47:22.760 --> 1:47:26.360 Every week, I will be in conversation with an interesting 1:47:26.479 --> 1:47:28.880 person who has something to say. We're going to talk 1:47:28.880 --> 1:47:33.639 about feminism, race, writing and books and art, food, pop culture, 1:47:33.840 --> 1:47:38.479 and yes, politics. I started show with a recommendation. Really, 1:47:38.800 --> 1:47:41.200 I'm just going to share with you a movie or 1:47:41.240 --> 1:47:44.080 a book, or maybe some music or a comedy side, 1:47:44.160 --> 1:47:47.000 something that I really want you to be aware of 1:47:47.040 --> 1:47:50.360 and maybe engage with as well. Listen to the Luminary 1:47:50.400 --> 1:47:55.240 original podcast, The Roxanne Gay Agenda, The Bad Feminist Podcast 1:47:55.320 --> 1:47:58.840 of Your Dreams, every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio app, 1:47:59.080 --> 1:48:11.400 Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Could it 1:48:11.560 --> 1:48:17.960 happen here? It maybe? I Robert Evans, host of this podcast, 1:48:18.400 --> 1:48:24.840 UM to introduce this today's episode, which is not my episode, 1:48:25.000 --> 1:48:31.280 it's it's Andrew's, uh episode. So, how how are you doing? 1:48:31.320 --> 1:48:35.160 Andrew Hood In that introduction, I'm good. I think it's 1:48:35.240 --> 1:48:38.720 um could use some work, but you know we'll shop it. Yeah. 1:48:38.760 --> 1:48:41.080 We we never workshop anything. We just we just roll 1:48:41.200 --> 1:48:46.559 right ahead. UM, so abolish that. Abolish introductions, you know, 1:48:46.640 --> 1:48:48.960 start in the middle. Why don't we just do that now? 1:48:49.320 --> 1:48:52.479 In media res podcast. Yeah, we'll make every podcast like 1:48:52.560 --> 1:48:55.360 Finnigan's Wake, where the opening of the podcast is like 1:48:55.439 --> 1:48:58.320 halfway through a paragraph that the end of the paragraphs 1:48:58.400 --> 1:49:01.040 or at the end of the episode starts every everything 1:49:01.080 --> 1:49:04.120 will be a circle. Let's just Sophie. I think that's 1:49:04.160 --> 1:49:08.320 the new plan. Okay, Okay, Andrews, what do you guys 1:49:08.320 --> 1:49:10.800 for us today? Right? So today I wanted to talk 1:49:10.800 --> 1:49:19.200 about bio regions and bioregionalism. It's uh philosophy slash movement, 1:49:19.439 --> 1:49:23.800 slash way of viewing things. There's a lot. So today 1:49:23.800 --> 1:49:26.840 we'll be exploring what it is, where it came from, 1:49:26.920 --> 1:49:30.639 and the role I see it playing in our strides 1:49:30.720 --> 1:49:35.000 towards anarchy. But first of course we really gets some 1:49:35.040 --> 1:49:39.120 context bioregionalism. Have any of you heard of it? By 1:49:39.120 --> 1:49:47.000 the way, I have heard the tournament right right, So 1:49:47.920 --> 1:49:53.400 it's actually pretty recent, um, all things considered. UM. It 1:49:53.479 --> 1:49:55.920 was coined as a tomb by a guy named Alan 1:49:56.080 --> 1:49:59.879 Van new Cook, found of the Institute for Bioregional Research, 1:50:01.880 --> 1:50:04.200 and as a movement it really gained a lot of 1:50:04.240 --> 1:50:09.000 popularity in the late nineties seventies in the Ozaks, Appalachia, 1:50:09.200 --> 1:50:13.760 Hudson River, and San Francisco Bay Area regions. UM. They 1:50:13.760 --> 1:50:19.880 had a conference in a prairie, interestingly enough, near Kansas City, 1:50:19.960 --> 1:50:24.320 and they've also had conferences in the Squamish bioregion of 1:50:24.320 --> 1:50:27.320 British Columbia as well as the Gulf of main By 1:50:27.400 --> 1:50:30.960 region on the Atlantic. And of course with all these 1:50:30.960 --> 1:50:34.920 different people coming together sharing all their different ideas talking 1:50:34.960 --> 1:50:38.800 about cool nature stuff, they developed a sort of a 1:50:38.960 --> 1:50:42.800 platform which they outline in papers on subjects changing from 1:50:42.840 --> 1:50:49.559 agriculture to forestry, to arts, economics to community. So while 1:50:49.560 --> 1:50:54.360 it was a very North American focused movement and philosophy 1:50:54.439 --> 1:50:58.360 at first, it has also expanded to Europe and Australia 1:50:58.720 --> 1:51:02.639 and these groups, they hundreds of them all over. UM. 1:51:02.640 --> 1:51:06.720 They get involved with local ecological work like preservation and restoration, 1:51:06.960 --> 1:51:09.640 pumic culture or that, and they also form networks so 1:51:09.680 --> 1:51:13.479 they would link on specific issues like water conservation or 1:51:13.600 --> 1:51:18.840 organic farming or tree planting. And of course bioreginal groups 1:51:18.880 --> 1:51:21.679 also get involved in attempts to make communities more self 1:51:21.680 --> 1:51:27.320 sufficient by mapping and utilizing local assets and well, as 1:51:27.360 --> 1:51:31.479 you come to see, um, bioregionalism and maps kind of 1:51:31.560 --> 1:51:35.439 go hand in hand away UM, because it really is 1:51:35.479 --> 1:51:38.559 about that sort of big picture looking at the earth 1:51:38.680 --> 1:51:43.080 and the environment and outplace in it. So what is 1:51:43.160 --> 1:51:47.920 bioregionalism exactly In essence, it's a philosophy based around the 1:51:48.000 --> 1:51:53.759 organization of political, cultural, and economic systems around naturally defined 1:51:53.800 --> 1:51:59.599 areas called bioregions. Sort of bioregions. There are areas defined 1:51:59.720 --> 1:52:04.640 through physical and environmental features, including watershed boundaries, soil and 1:52:04.760 --> 1:52:12.839 terrain characteristics, flora, fauna, and climate. Bioregionalism also stresses the 1:52:12.840 --> 1:52:16.880 determination of a bioregion is a cultural phenomenon and emphasizes 1:52:16.960 --> 1:52:24.720 local populations, local knowledge, and local solutions because humans are 1:52:24.800 --> 1:52:29.920 actually surprisingly part of nature. Our cultures or settlements they 1:52:30.000 --> 1:52:33.600 arise from nature, They arise from the characteristics of the 1:52:33.600 --> 1:52:37.160 bio regions that we inhabit. So I mean that to 1:52:37.160 --> 1:52:40.160 me is a clear virtualty and bioregionalism and land back. 1:52:40.680 --> 1:52:44.040 And it also points to me um the fact that 1:52:44.240 --> 1:52:49.719 while bioregionalism maybe a fairly recent philosophy starsh movement, its 1:52:49.840 --> 1:52:55.200 roots and the ideas it presents are nothing new, you know, um, 1:52:55.240 --> 1:52:59.400 I mean bioregionalism posits that, you know, human societies must 1:52:59.439 --> 1:53:02.800 learn to our bioregions and the connections between them if 1:53:02.800 --> 1:53:05.479 we have to be ecologically sound. And this was an 1:53:05.479 --> 1:53:08.040 active is really old news, you know, for the indigenous 1:53:08.040 --> 1:53:11.920 peoples who have maintained these lands and been stewards of 1:53:11.960 --> 1:53:18.040 these lands for thousands of years. I think that thinking 1:53:18.240 --> 1:53:22.600 in a bioregional scale allows us to establish regenerative and 1:53:22.680 --> 1:53:28.519 circular economies, effectively, restore local ecosystems, restructure our systems using 1:53:28.600 --> 1:53:33.080 ecological design principles, and of course deepen our cultural connections 1:53:33.120 --> 1:53:38.800 to the land we inhabit. So that to me really 1:53:38.840 --> 1:53:48.479 stresses the importance of bioregionalism in our approach to environmental issues. 1:53:50.120 --> 1:53:52.720 Before I continue, I just wanted to say that for 1:53:52.760 --> 1:53:55.360 those who want to like visualize, because I know this 1:53:55.479 --> 1:54:00.000 is a podcast, you can only hear my voice. Um 1:54:00.080 --> 1:54:02.840 One Earth has a pretty decent map of bio regions 1:54:02.840 --> 1:54:05.439 on the website, so you could just google bio regions 1:54:06.360 --> 1:54:10.719 and it should come up. They basically have like five 1:54:11.120 --> 1:54:14.639 bio regions on their map. And well, according to that map, 1:54:15.479 --> 1:54:20.200 trend that is part of bioregion Anti NT Stanning for 1:54:20.320 --> 1:54:25.720 neotropic and E Stanning for East and Turnadas grouped with 1:54:26.439 --> 1:54:33.720 South America and particularly the Venezuela Guyana's region for obvious 1:54:33.760 --> 1:54:38.880 reasons being that the Urn coup and other rivers that 1:54:39.000 --> 1:54:43.960 come from the Amazon flew out to you know, trend 1:54:44.000 --> 1:54:53.560 ads shows really so clunky segue um. There a couple 1:54:53.600 --> 1:54:58.080 of different concepts that one might want to keep in 1:54:58.160 --> 1:55:03.400 mind when a aproaching or attempting to curate a bio 1:55:03.440 --> 1:55:09.840 regional understanding of the world. Of course, perspective and a 1:55:09.840 --> 1:55:14.880 bioregional perspective is important, and it's basically one that seeks 1:55:14.920 --> 1:55:20.640 to ensure that political boundaries match ecological boundaries, highlighting the 1:55:20.840 --> 1:55:24.640 unique ecology of the bio region, encouraging the consumption of 1:55:24.680 --> 1:55:28.320 local foods where possible, encouraging the use of local materials 1:55:28.360 --> 1:55:32.360 where possible, and encouraging the cultivation of needs of plans 1:55:32.400 --> 1:55:36.360 in the region. I will point out like from now, 1:55:36.600 --> 1:55:39.720 that's from what I've read about bioregionalism and the talks 1:55:39.720 --> 1:55:44.080 that I've seen, there are definitely some you know, liberal sensibilities, 1:55:44.160 --> 1:55:49.840 some capitalist realism um. In the way that some bioregionalists 1:55:49.920 --> 1:55:56.480 talk about, you know, things like organizing our politics and 1:55:56.560 --> 1:56:02.520 our states and stuff around by regions. Obviously, you know, 1:56:02.960 --> 1:56:05.640 they are pushing things pretty far because they do talk 1:56:05.680 --> 1:56:12.680 about you know, going and really orienting our economy around 1:56:13.840 --> 1:56:17.400 you know, bio regions and thinking in terms of that. 1:56:17.960 --> 1:56:21.560 But at the same time, there's still like an almost 1:56:21.560 --> 1:56:24.240 passive acceptance in some of the readings that I've seen 1:56:24.720 --> 1:56:27.280 of capitalism. You know, I think that's pretty common in 1:56:27.320 --> 1:56:31.320 a lot of what I like to call almost radical 1:56:32.240 --> 1:56:35.960 um ideas and philosophies and stuff. Of course, when I 1:56:36.000 --> 1:56:39.520 approached these ideas and these philosophies and stuff, I always 1:56:39.560 --> 1:56:44.720 try to, you know, keep that anarchist analytical freework in 1:56:44.800 --> 1:56:51.640 my head, understanding that you know, these ideas are still 1:56:51.680 --> 1:56:57.080 being filtered through an ultimately like Campitus society and capitalist world, 1:56:57.360 --> 1:57:01.520 and so you're gonna want to try to navigate that 1:57:01.680 --> 1:57:05.440 and sift that out and really get the nuggets of 1:57:05.480 --> 1:57:10.840 gold within these ideas. I don't see states um, and 1:57:10.880 --> 1:57:13.120 I think you would agree with me being the path 1:57:13.480 --> 1:57:18.560 out of you know, that's a climate catastrophe um. For 1:57:18.600 --> 1:57:21.560 those who have been reading like you know, Against the 1:57:21.600 --> 1:57:26.320 Green and you know Griever's work, we know that states 1:57:26.360 --> 1:57:32.760 have been pretty equalsider from their very inception. So I 1:57:32.800 --> 1:57:35.400 think that if poogionalism would be effective, I think it 1:57:35.400 --> 1:57:38.360 would be best if it stayed away from that sort 1:57:38.400 --> 1:57:46.480 of status um conception they do emphasize localism UM as 1:57:46.520 --> 1:57:50.200 the political localism, but it's always within the context of 1:57:51.640 --> 1:57:56.440 was often within the context of like the relationship between 1:57:56.600 --> 1:57:59.800 the local and the state and that sort of thing 1:58:00.200 --> 1:58:02.840 almost like a kind of I don't know if I'm 1:58:02.920 --> 1:58:07.520 using this to him correctly, even like monarchism, does that 1:58:07.560 --> 1:58:10.320 makes sense some kind was it? Some kind of like 1:58:10.440 --> 1:58:15.720 municipalist almost something like that, But yeah, yeah, we should 1:58:15.720 --> 1:58:19.600 probably talk a little bit about like what what monarchism 1:58:19.680 --> 1:58:24.000 and municipalism are UM, just so people don't get kind 1:58:24.000 --> 1:58:28.400 of caught up on the terms UM. And particularly I 1:58:28.400 --> 1:58:32.760 think that like within a context of like the United States, UM, 1:58:32.920 --> 1:58:35.920 municipalism is kind of an easier way to sell folks 1:58:36.080 --> 1:58:39.640 who may be more conservative on certain anarchists principles. It's 1:58:39.680 --> 1:58:44.400 basically the idea of yea strong community sort of control 1:58:44.480 --> 1:58:50.120 and autonomy UM, as opposed to uh, strong overarching kind 1:58:50.200 --> 1:58:56.160 of federal or state control over over you know, different communities. Yeah. Yeah, 1:58:56.360 --> 1:58:59.720 because menarchism is kind of like a weird grab bag thing. 1:59:00.000 --> 1:59:03.160 It's like, yeah, it's it's it's sort of like, okay, 1:59:03.160 --> 1:59:04.680 so you want to be in an arco capitalist, but 1:59:04.720 --> 1:59:07.360 you can't because you're just smart enough to realize that 1:59:07.760 --> 1:59:10.880 you can't have a right to state. So either the 1:59:10.920 --> 1:59:13.200 America state is the only thing it does is enforced 1:59:13.240 --> 1:59:18.720 property rights. And yeah, I think that's a slightly terrifying vision, 1:59:18.840 --> 1:59:22.560 but I think but you know it's it's yeah, it's 1:59:22.560 --> 1:59:26.560 a more self away than the average Yeah, but you 1:59:26.560 --> 1:59:31.480 know this is yeah, and I think that is less 1:59:31.480 --> 1:59:34.560 of a focus specifically on property rights and more of 1:59:35.120 --> 1:59:38.760 more based out of an understanding that UM like strong 1:59:39.040 --> 1:59:43.800 hierarchical federal or even state level control UM generally winds 1:59:43.880 --> 1:59:46.760 up creating reach a lot of a significant amount of 1:59:46.760 --> 1:59:50.720 like regional um uh, what's the word I'm looking for, 1:59:51.240 --> 1:59:54.880 um inequalities UM and and is responsible for a lot 1:59:54.920 --> 1:59:57.840 of like ecological devastation and whatnot. This idea that you 1:59:57.880 --> 2:00:00.280 can have like like one of the things that you 2:00:00.280 --> 2:00:02.600 would have with an actual municipalist system, as you wouldn't 2:00:02.600 --> 2:00:05.840 be allowed to operate a company like Coke Industries that's 2:00:05.840 --> 2:00:08.920 able to UM, you know, be based out of I 2:00:08.960 --> 2:00:13.040 think Kentucky, UM, but operate a series of refineries in 2:00:13.120 --> 2:00:17.040 the Gulf Coast that render large sections of that area 2:00:17.080 --> 2:00:21.080 uninhabitable because you would leave kind of control over what 2:00:21.160 --> 2:00:22.960 can be actually done in that area to the people 2:00:22.960 --> 2:00:25.680 who live there, rather than being able to have UM 2:00:25.720 --> 2:00:28.000 a corporation by land there and have its right to 2:00:28.320 --> 2:00:30.840 pollute enforced by the state. Right, that's kind of like 2:00:30.880 --> 2:00:34.760 one little example. UM, there's municipalists. The system in northeast 2:00:34.760 --> 2:00:37.880 Syria and Rojava is is sort of a municipalist system 2:00:37.880 --> 2:00:41.240 and one of the specifically libertarian. Yeah, I mean there's 2:00:41.240 --> 2:00:46.840 an distinction between like, well generally and m yeah, we're 2:00:46.840 --> 2:00:48.760 we're getting into the weeds a little bit here, but 2:00:48.800 --> 2:00:50.960 these are these are like that's kind of the basics 2:00:50.960 --> 2:00:52.720 of what those terms mean. Just so that people don't 2:00:52.720 --> 2:00:54.960 get lost when you when you bring them up, because 2:00:54.960 --> 2:00:57.880 I think a lot of folks, UM, you know, don't 2:00:59.360 --> 2:01:02.760 have necessary early that kind of those definitions don't just 2:01:02.800 --> 2:01:04.560 pop up in their head when you use that word, 2:01:05.640 --> 2:01:09.120 right right, yeah, fair enough. UM. I also mentioned that 2:01:09.640 --> 2:01:14.280 states have been ecosidal from the inception, so I feel 2:01:14.280 --> 2:01:16.920 like I should probably trying to find that as well. 2:01:17.640 --> 2:01:25.080 UM equal side and ecosidal is UM is basically UM 2:01:25.160 --> 2:01:29.080 this idea that came out to the environmentalist movement, UM 2:01:29.240 --> 2:01:32.800 meanttive points to the survey harm to nature, the mass 2:01:32.840 --> 2:01:37.320 damage and destruction of ecosystems that's you know, caused over 2:01:37.400 --> 2:01:41.720 decades by you know these companies and really buy the 2:01:41.800 --> 2:01:46.120 system as a whole. So it's often viewed through like 2:01:46.160 --> 2:01:50.440 a legal lens, as in, you know, these um companies 2:01:50.440 --> 2:01:56.480 should be tried for their crimes um and as like 2:01:56.640 --> 2:01:59.320 for committing equal side and that kind of thing, because 2:01:59.440 --> 2:02:02.760 it's off then view like as like illegal like lower 2:02:02.760 --> 2:02:04.880 Street put in police to classify equal side as a 2:02:04.920 --> 2:02:07.240 crime and that sort of thing. Um only a few 2:02:08.120 --> 2:02:11.920 countries have done that, like actually quotified eco side, but 2:02:12.360 --> 2:02:17.200 it is something that um so environmentalists pushed, you know, 2:02:17.240 --> 2:02:22.400 really raise awareness as a crime against humanity and the planet. Yeah, 2:02:22.400 --> 2:02:24.120 I think it's also kind of important to understand with 2:02:24.160 --> 2:02:27.320 equal Side is that like there's a lot of focus 2:02:27.400 --> 2:02:31.160 I think in like left like in fronmutal movements just 2:02:31.160 --> 2:02:33.880 purely incorporations and even if you go back to the 2:02:34.560 --> 2:02:37.320 companies memes like Hunter companies destroying the planets like well yeah, 2:02:37.360 --> 2:02:40.120 like like half of the merse they don't. Yeah, and 2:02:40.160 --> 2:02:42.520 so you know, yeah, this this is something like like 2:02:42.520 --> 2:02:44.080 with equal Side, it's like yeah, it's like it's not 2:02:44.200 --> 2:02:46.800 just corporations that do this. It's you know, it's it's 2:02:46.840 --> 2:02:48.840 the the state as a structure. It's the state as 2:02:48.840 --> 2:02:52.080 the institution. Is the state as exactly, Yes, their agencies 2:02:52.160 --> 2:02:54.720 is there sort of And that's that's what I try 2:02:54.800 --> 2:02:58.200 to Like, what I realized is it's kind of important. Known. 2:02:58.280 --> 2:03:01.360 I guess this is kind of like slowly like shifting 2:03:01.360 --> 2:03:06.680 away from birationalism, but that's fine. Um. What I will 2:03:06.720 --> 2:03:11.320 say that I've tried to like consciously, um sort of 2:03:11.400 --> 2:03:16.560 put into practice is emphasizing that, like capitalism is not 2:03:16.640 --> 2:03:21.840 the only issue, you know. Um, Like I those people 2:03:21.880 --> 2:03:24.200 like try to separate capitalism on the state, as if 2:03:24.200 --> 2:03:27.920 they could ever truly be separated. Even people who understand 2:03:28.400 --> 2:03:33.520 that you know, acro capitalists misguided and that you know, 2:03:33.560 --> 2:03:37.080 the state is necessary to maintain capitalism. There's some sort 2:03:37.120 --> 2:03:41.320 of like disconnect where there's like a whole ton of 2:03:41.400 --> 2:03:46.800 you know, organization and meaning and all that about capitalism. 2:03:46.960 --> 2:03:51.680 And you know, oftentimes these sort of efforts are like 2:03:51.960 --> 2:03:54.880 particularly reformist types and unions and stuff. They try to 2:03:55.320 --> 2:04:01.120 mediate with capitalism through the state, you know, through the government, 2:04:01.200 --> 2:04:04.480 look re local government or federal government, whatever the case in. 2:04:05.400 --> 2:04:09.680 And what I really try to emphasize is that it's 2:04:09.720 --> 2:04:12.800 not enough to have like a theory of capitalism. I 2:04:12.800 --> 2:04:16.160 think it's even more important to have a theory of 2:04:16.240 --> 2:04:19.640 hierarchy because I think it avoids it helps to avoid 2:04:19.680 --> 2:04:23.800 getting into these sort of traps of like um well, 2:04:23.800 --> 2:04:30.360 class reductionism for one, but also like recreating certain structures 2:04:30.360 --> 2:04:35.240 within your organizations and in your efforts to change things, 2:04:35.520 --> 2:04:41.960 recreating the very you know, circumstances you're fighting against. You 2:04:42.080 --> 2:04:48.280 can't like condense everything into one problem, because try as 2:04:48.280 --> 2:04:51.440 we might, it's not that everything is one problem. It's 2:04:51.440 --> 2:04:56.720 an interconnected mesh that binds all of our problems together. 2:04:57.360 --> 2:04:59.840 And you can focus on, you know, really big extensions 2:04:59.840 --> 2:05:02.000 of that mesh, but it still is kind of just 2:05:02.120 --> 2:05:05.520 the mesh, and the mesh isn't the thing, but it 2:05:05.560 --> 2:05:09.520 connects to the edges of all of the things. And yeah, 2:05:09.600 --> 2:05:13.800 that type of ecology can be useful and even even 2:05:13.840 --> 2:05:18.520 relating to bioregions in terms of how they also connect 2:05:18.520 --> 2:05:24.760 with other territories and entities. I think it also you 2:05:24.800 --> 2:05:26.880 know it this is one of the sort of problems 2:05:27.320 --> 2:05:30.400 that you have if you know it's like, okay, so 2:05:30.440 --> 2:05:32.680 your plans it takes sort of sovereign state power. It's like, well, 2:05:32.720 --> 2:05:34.120 you do it right, But I mean the thing is 2:05:34.160 --> 2:05:35.880 if if you if you you know, you seeze control 2:05:35.880 --> 2:05:38.040 of power of a state, right, your borders are essentially 2:05:38.080 --> 2:05:42.600 just like where the state's war machine ran out of steam. 2:05:42.680 --> 2:05:44.760 And you know, and this this becomes a normal's problem 2:05:44.800 --> 2:05:46.800 because like I mean, if if you look at the 2:05:46.800 --> 2:05:49.960 bioregional maps, right, it's like there's there's literally no way 2:05:50.000 --> 2:05:54.120 you could ever have states with these borders, because yeah, 2:05:54.440 --> 2:05:56.240 it's not like this, it's it's it's impossible, like you 2:05:56.720 --> 2:05:59.200 you cannot do it. And you know what that means 2:05:59.200 --> 2:06:01.720 is that states are sort of necessarily going wee, they're 2:06:01.720 --> 2:06:03.280 either going to be like a small fraction of a 2:06:03.320 --> 2:06:07.200 bioregion or they have multiple in them. And that's another 2:06:07.240 --> 2:06:09.400 sort of that becomes a sort of logistical problem because 2:06:10.000 --> 2:06:11.200 you know, like if you want to look at like 2:06:11.240 --> 2:06:16.000 a lot of the worst sort of ecological sort of 2:06:16.040 --> 2:06:19.200 like human disasters, it's when you get states attempting to 2:06:19.200 --> 2:06:26.320 apply like state environmental issues. Yeah, yeah, it's more certifically 2:06:26.320 --> 2:06:28.040 like it it's it's you know, they have something that 2:06:28.120 --> 2:06:30.320 like sort of works in one test environment, and then 2:06:30.320 --> 2:06:32.920 they broadly apply it across you know, an enormous sort 2:06:32.960 --> 2:06:35.720 of variety of areas and reasons to have their own 2:06:35.760 --> 2:06:38.200 biospheres and have their own and that stuff. That's like 2:06:38.240 --> 2:06:40.040 that's like the fastest way to kill an enormous number 2:06:40.080 --> 2:06:45.000 of people. Yeah, just like it's like forcing a jigsaw 2:06:45.080 --> 2:06:48.120 piece that obviously doesn't fit into a spot where you 2:06:48.240 --> 2:06:51.960 wanted to, but you're just breaking the pieces. I want 2:06:51.960 --> 2:06:54.000 to say as well, that like that sort of I mean, 2:06:54.000 --> 2:06:57.240 at least the state's attesting it, right, Um. I remember 2:06:57.280 --> 2:07:00.200 I kind of remember the exact name of like the 2:07:00.200 --> 2:07:03.600 the sort of like ideology or whatever. I think it 2:07:03.680 --> 2:07:06.480 was like this Elie Soviet Unian probably one of your name, 2:07:06.800 --> 2:07:10.160 This Elie Soviet Union in practice related to like farming 2:07:10.640 --> 2:07:15.000 that they just applied over like a vast vast region 2:07:15.120 --> 2:07:19.000 end up with like a huge decrease in like food production. 2:07:19.080 --> 2:07:24.160 I can't remember the name of it. Senku Oh, Yeah, yeah, 2:07:24.160 --> 2:07:26.400 it just had this he had this theory and it's 2:07:26.440 --> 2:07:31.240 just like pushing it and yeah, it led to some 2:07:31.360 --> 2:07:34.360 serious issues. Yeah, and I think you know, if we're 2:07:34.360 --> 2:07:37.200 gonna have like what's important about sort of birationalism, it's 2:07:37.720 --> 2:07:42.600 you have to have if you're going to implement anything right. 2:07:42.640 --> 2:07:44.800 You know, it's especially when you're trying to sort of 2:07:44.800 --> 2:07:47.400 manipulate biospheres, you're trying to preserve a biosphears you have 2:07:47.480 --> 2:07:49.480 to have local knowledge from the people who have been 2:07:49.480 --> 2:07:51.960 living in these biospheres for you know, enormous amounts of time. 2:07:52.800 --> 2:07:56.760 And that's something that states are really bad at and 2:07:56.960 --> 2:07:58.840 you know, tend to actively suppress and it's something you know, 2:07:58.840 --> 2:08:00.920 and I almost said this, there's there's a kind of 2:08:00.960 --> 2:08:03.760 like there's like a kind of neoliberal version of this stuff. 2:08:03.760 --> 2:08:05.480 Fe It's like, oh, well do you know who will 2:08:05.520 --> 2:08:07.920 have like local knowledge blah blah blah. And then they're like, well, 2:08:07.760 --> 2:08:11.360 well we'll have local knowledge, but they that this will 2:08:11.400 --> 2:08:13.120 help them create market solutions to things. It's like that 2:08:13.160 --> 2:08:19.440 also doesn't work, and it's basically just motized Like yeah, 2:08:19.680 --> 2:08:27.040 but because that I really like sits letson sits well 2:08:27.080 --> 2:08:30.600 with me. You know, like these sort of like see 2:08:30.640 --> 2:08:32.560 that you see a lot of liberals like doing it 2:08:32.640 --> 2:08:35.160 a lot of these days where they'll be like doing 2:08:35.160 --> 2:08:38.040 the whole land acknowledge one's thing and they'll be doing 2:08:38.040 --> 2:08:41.840 the that thing where they would just like say that 2:08:41.880 --> 2:08:45.080 oh this is from so and sue culture and whatever, 2:08:45.160 --> 2:08:49.560 and then just like boom and then carry yeah, carry 2:08:49.640 --> 2:08:52.240 on with business as usual. Yeah, which is I learned 2:08:52.280 --> 2:08:55.680 this technique from so and so tried, no, let me 2:08:56.200 --> 2:09:02.160 work as a consultant for your company. Yeah thing, yeah, yeah, 2:09:02.200 --> 2:09:05.480 it's it's come out. It's commodifying the thing, and that 2:09:06.080 --> 2:09:12.160 that both produces a warped replication and then it also 2:09:12.280 --> 2:09:17.120 kind of makes the original thing seem like used in 2:09:17.200 --> 2:09:20.760 a weird way as well, like it wasn't designed. Yeah. Yeah, 2:09:22.040 --> 2:09:26.520 I once reminded a bit of alienation and how we 2:09:26.600 --> 2:09:30.800 are just sort of separated from, you know, aspects of 2:09:30.840 --> 2:09:35.320 our actual humanity because of the structures we live under. Right, 2:09:35.400 --> 2:09:41.600 So instead of relating with the environment, or relating with 2:09:41.920 --> 2:09:45.520 our culture, or relating to other people, we're just relating 2:09:45.640 --> 2:09:50.320 through like these commodities and these products and these you know, 2:09:51.520 --> 2:09:57.760 just bastardized versions of things. And I think that is 2:09:57.800 --> 2:10:03.840 also something that sort of leagues like some environmentalists in 2:10:03.960 --> 2:10:07.360 terms of there's there's there's almost like this subtle ill 2:10:07.440 --> 2:10:12.640 nation from the nature that um many of them seek 2:10:12.720 --> 2:10:17.720 to preserve, right where on the one hand, yes, you're 2:10:17.760 --> 2:10:21.560 trying to you know, preserve it and protect it and 2:10:21.840 --> 2:10:25.440 as commendable brand. The other hand, the way you're going 2:10:25.480 --> 2:10:32.000 about it is basically like anti tactical to those schools 2:10:32.520 --> 2:10:36.840 because you don't have that connection with the nature that 2:10:36.960 --> 2:10:40.240 you're trying to help. You know, what it seems like 2:10:40.360 --> 2:10:42.480 a lot of people not recognizing is that you know, 2:10:42.600 --> 2:10:48.920 humans are apart nature, right, and this is another bioregional concept, right, 2:10:49.400 --> 2:10:54.600 this thing called bioregional reinhabitation in it in being that um, 2:10:55.880 --> 2:10:59.800 meaning that we must come home to the geographical and 2:11:00.120 --> 2:11:05.680 physicalter and reinhabit, understand its ecological uniqueness and familiarize ourselves 2:11:05.760 --> 2:11:08.520 with the stories woven into the fabric of said land. 2:11:08.920 --> 2:11:11.920 It's history, it's people with its cultures, it's flora, it's fauna. 2:11:12.360 --> 2:11:14.760 You know. It's only once we come home to the 2:11:14.840 --> 2:11:17.760 our byo regions and to our ecosystems, to all places, 2:11:18.320 --> 2:11:22.160 that we can really work together to see its potential, 2:11:22.520 --> 2:11:27.560 to see how we fit into it, how we can 2:11:27.680 --> 2:11:33.200 facilitate its healing, you know, bio region by bio region. Yeah, 2:11:33.360 --> 2:11:37.960 that definitely mirrors stuff I've been working on relating to 2:11:38.960 --> 2:11:41.280 that type of like cognitive dissonance that you're talking about. 2:11:41.320 --> 2:11:45.800 And that alienation not just from like human to human, 2:11:45.920 --> 2:11:48.960 but human to human to place, because yeah, we have 2:11:49.120 --> 2:11:53.360 like developed this like this commodified other version of nature 2:11:53.480 --> 2:11:56.520 that isn't actually what nature is. Um it's it's it's 2:11:56.560 --> 2:11:59.440 we formed this thing that is separate from us, which 2:11:59.560 --> 2:12:02.680 is not how we need to think about it, because 2:12:03.040 --> 2:12:05.440 it should be. We are all part of the same 2:12:06.240 --> 2:12:08.920 of of of that same system. We are not separate 2:12:09.000 --> 2:12:11.320 from it, and we're not isolated from it or its effects. 2:12:11.640 --> 2:12:13.520 We are just another part of it. So it's about 2:12:14.480 --> 2:12:19.320 getting in like getting a sense of ecology with both 2:12:19.480 --> 2:12:22.600 your bioregion and then the biosphere as as as a whole, 2:12:22.960 --> 2:12:25.360 and getting that ecology which kind of will break down 2:12:25.920 --> 2:12:29.440 this notion of nature being an other. And and I 2:12:29.520 --> 2:12:32.360 think because of the idea of nature being another that 2:12:32.520 --> 2:12:36.880 really kind of fosters our extraction that's led to our 2:12:37.480 --> 2:12:41.000 current problems because we don't use problems affecting us. We 2:12:41.120 --> 2:12:43.560 give them as a practice as affecting the territory. And 2:12:43.640 --> 2:12:45.480 if we're if we're not the territory, then we can 2:12:45.520 --> 2:12:52.320 be safe. But that's not Sorry, go on, I think 2:12:52.360 --> 2:12:53.560 I think I may have talked about this on the 2:12:53.600 --> 2:12:56.800 show before but you know that there's another aspect here, 2:12:56.840 --> 2:12:59.720 which is that viewing humans is sort of like separate 2:12:59.800 --> 2:13:02.360 from like this abstract nature is how you get a 2:13:02.400 --> 2:13:07.160 lot of really bad like racist environmentalism. Like if you 2:13:07.200 --> 2:13:10.320 haven't read The Trouble with y by, yeah Coroning, the 2:13:10.360 --> 2:13:11.960 Trouble with Wilderness is one of the things that like 2:13:12.200 --> 2:13:15.720 if you study, yeah, if if you do environmental studies 2:13:15.800 --> 2:13:17.520 at all, like this is one of the first things 2:13:17.560 --> 2:13:18.800 they hand you. And the reason they hand it to 2:13:18.880 --> 2:13:22.480 you is because it you know, so the the the 2:13:22.600 --> 2:13:24.600 image of wilderness that we have is sort of like, oh, 2:13:24.680 --> 2:13:27.320 it's just like completely untapped thing, and it's like, well, yeah, okay. 2:13:27.360 --> 2:13:29.680 So the reason the reason we have this image of 2:13:29.800 --> 2:13:32.160 like a wilderness with nothing in it is because there 2:13:32.240 --> 2:13:33.600 used to be people there and we killed them all 2:13:34.360 --> 2:13:41.240 or fortunately imported them. Yeah yeah, yeah, and it's it's wilderness. 2:13:41.840 --> 2:13:45.360 And yeah it was for us literally planted and called 2:13:46.160 --> 2:13:50.440 those forests were I think even more pointedly, you should 2:13:50.840 --> 2:13:52.840 it should be stated those forests were a work of 2:13:53.000 --> 2:13:56.400 engineering that's on par with the pyramids at Giza, if 2:13:56.480 --> 2:14:00.120 not like absolutely massively in excess of it there, they 2:14:00.160 --> 2:14:03.600 are a work of engineering that's every bit as impressive 2:14:03.720 --> 2:14:06.000 as any city ever built. Um and everything is like 2:14:06.120 --> 2:14:10.000 intense and required as much knowledge and scientific understanding. People 2:14:10.160 --> 2:14:12.520 just all we had, all of those people had died 2:14:12.880 --> 2:14:16.000 by the time white folks really because of the spread 2:14:16.000 --> 2:14:18.720 of disease or just because of act Like yeah, like 2:14:18.800 --> 2:14:20.680 I think that's true. Definitely the East coast with the 2:14:20.720 --> 2:14:22.640 West Coast, I think it's even grimmer because the West 2:14:22.680 --> 2:14:25.240 Coast you and this this happened, you still see this 2:14:25.320 --> 2:14:28.360 where like a lot of like theiricannational parks were literally 2:14:28.480 --> 2:14:32.040 like like people would go and ethnically cleanse the population 2:14:32.240 --> 2:14:34.680 that was there and then be like, oh hey look 2:14:34.760 --> 2:14:36.440 it's it's now wilderness. This is now and this this 2:14:36.600 --> 2:14:38.880 is like the origin of the environmental movement. It's all 2:14:38.960 --> 2:14:43.280 of these like just like the most racist people you've 2:14:43.320 --> 2:14:48.240 ever seen in your life, like people yeah, well and 2:14:48.360 --> 2:14:50.600 even even even before them, like in you know, like 2:14:50.640 --> 2:14:57.360 like early hundreds, like people like those guys. Yeah. Yeah, 2:14:57.400 --> 2:14:59.000 it's like like when when when those guys are talking 2:14:59.000 --> 2:15:02.520 about like the purity of the field, like they're everything 2:15:02.600 --> 2:15:04.560 they think about the wilderness is also just about the 2:15:04.600 --> 2:15:07.240 purity of the white race, and it's it's yeah, and 2:15:07.520 --> 2:15:09.320 if if if when you when when you start making 2:15:09.360 --> 2:15:11.640 that this like that's the separation between teams in nature, 2:15:11.720 --> 2:15:15.200 Like that's that's how you get this, Like that's how 2:15:15.240 --> 2:15:18.200 that's how you get these you know, ethnic cleansing like 2:15:18.400 --> 2:15:22.720 genocide forests. I've been reading this very good book, just 2:15:22.800 --> 2:15:24.360 started last night, and I think we're gonna have the 2:15:24.360 --> 2:15:27.240 author on the show soon. Chris Begley. He's an underwater 2:15:27.360 --> 2:15:30.040 archaeologist and he wrote a book called The Next Apocalypse 2:15:30.080 --> 2:15:34.400 that's about collapses throughout history and how they actually differ 2:15:34.520 --> 2:15:36.800 from the popular conceptions of them. And he actually talks 2:15:36.800 --> 2:15:38.160 about a lot of the stuff we talk about in 2:15:38.240 --> 2:15:40.840 this show UM. And one of the points he makes 2:15:40.960 --> 2:15:44.960 is that this idea of like lost cities in dark 2:15:45.080 --> 2:15:48.840 jungles and whatnotum is based entirely on misconceptions first of 2:15:48.880 --> 2:15:51.840 all about like what jungles are, and then second on 2:15:52.000 --> 2:15:56.040 like these these very eurocentric ideas towards what lost means. 2:15:56.120 --> 2:15:57.800 Like he points out that every time there's been a 2:15:57.960 --> 2:16:01.720 lost city or civilization discover, it's because archaeologists just like 2:16:01.840 --> 2:16:04.040 asked the people living there where the ruins were in there, 2:16:04.040 --> 2:16:05.520 Like oh yeah, it's like right over there, like we 2:16:05.640 --> 2:16:07.840 we've known about this since forever. It was never lost, 2:16:07.960 --> 2:16:10.680 we just stopped living in that specific area. And the 2:16:10.720 --> 2:16:13.320 other thing he points out is that like this idea 2:16:13.440 --> 2:16:16.320 of a jungle as like a difficult and primeval place 2:16:16.400 --> 2:16:18.400 is ridiculous. If you had to pick anywhere to be 2:16:18.480 --> 2:16:21.400 stranded in the world of in terms of bioregions, you 2:16:21.440 --> 2:16:24.040 would pick a jungle like the Amazon, because it's pretty 2:16:24.080 --> 2:16:26.200 easy to survive there. That's why people live there for 2:16:26.320 --> 2:16:30.480 so long. Yeah, there's a ton of the Amazons. You know, 2:16:31.040 --> 2:16:33.920 as we've discovered, you know, there were cities and stuff 2:16:33.959 --> 2:16:36.560 happening in the Amazon. You know, it was like planted. 2:16:37.760 --> 2:16:40.640 There's food jungle like food forests and whatnot. Is the 2:16:40.760 --> 2:16:43.080 term people use it within the jungle like people set 2:16:43.160 --> 2:16:46.160 the people set the jungle in the Amazon up to 2:16:46.360 --> 2:16:49.600 provide them with food in a way that isn't exactly 2:16:49.760 --> 2:16:52.840 isn't the same as like what we consider to be agriculture, 2:16:52.879 --> 2:16:55.760 but it's absolutely a kind of agriculture. And because people 2:16:55.800 --> 2:16:58.680 don't see it as agricultures, like, oh, that's just you know, 2:16:59.160 --> 2:17:01.160 they were just running around the forest before we arrived, 2:17:01.200 --> 2:17:05.480 you know, it's like, yeah, no, they had they had 2:17:05.600 --> 2:17:09.440 essentially built themselves a big smart house in the middle 2:17:09.600 --> 2:17:13.560 of the woods that provided them with everything they needed. 2:17:13.800 --> 2:17:17.600 Um with upkeep that we would consider minimal based on 2:17:17.720 --> 2:17:21.480 like what a lot of our European ancestors, it certainly 2:17:21.600 --> 2:17:24.040 like did in terms of labor to keep farms going. 2:17:24.160 --> 2:17:26.480 Like if you compare, I mean you could also talk 2:17:26.480 --> 2:17:29.560 about how like peasants in the medieval period probably worked 2:17:29.640 --> 2:17:31.280 less than a lot of people in the United States 2:17:31.360 --> 2:17:34.120 duties like everyone works less, we do know, but it's 2:17:34.120 --> 2:17:37.040 a lot harder to keep like a mono culture farm 2:17:37.160 --> 2:17:40.840 going than it is to to keep a food forest going. Yeah, 2:17:40.840 --> 2:17:43.640 because I mean, once it's established, it literally maintains itself. 2:17:44.600 --> 2:17:46.320 M What was the name of the book that you 2:17:46.400 --> 2:17:49.280 were talking about. Just it's called The Next Apocalypse and 2:17:49.360 --> 2:17:52.280 it's it's very good so far. Chris Begley is the author. 2:17:52.280 --> 2:17:53.880 I think we're gonna have them on next week. But 2:17:54.040 --> 2:17:56.560 um yeah, I've I've found it so far about a 2:17:56.600 --> 2:18:00.920 third of the way and very good, so much out. Okay, 2:18:01.000 --> 2:18:05.360 who wants to say we're back you just that's the now, 2:18:08.320 --> 2:18:12.080 that's the exit area. You're welcome there we are or song. 2:18:13.320 --> 2:18:16.400 So yeah, once we have like embraced our understanding that 2:18:16.640 --> 2:18:19.840 you know, we belong to the land and not vices 2:18:20.600 --> 2:18:23.960 and must therefore pattern ourselves and societies based on its needs. 2:18:25.000 --> 2:18:28.040 Um you know, that's when we get to that place 2:18:28.120 --> 2:18:33.119 of bioregional regeneration, which is another key concept of bioregionalism. 2:18:33.959 --> 2:18:37.800 And lastly, there's the concept of bioregional sensibility, which was 2:18:38.040 --> 2:18:41.440 developed by Mitchell Thomas Shoe, and it's about developing the 2:18:41.680 --> 2:18:46.840 observational skills to observe the bioregional history, to develop the 2:18:47.000 --> 2:18:52.520 conceptual skills to juxtapose you know, the scale of you know, 2:18:52.840 --> 2:18:58.520 the community and the region, and the bio ecosystem, the bioregion, 2:18:58.959 --> 2:19:01.480 all these different levels. Was ability to like think in 2:19:01.680 --> 2:19:07.440 terms of all of them, to develop the imaginative faculties too. Really, 2:19:07.680 --> 2:19:13.600 I would say, play with multiple landscapes and develop the compassion. 2:19:14.440 --> 2:19:20.080 Two empathize with and work with both local and global neighbors, 2:19:20.640 --> 2:19:24.720 not just local and global human neighbors, but also you know, 2:19:24.920 --> 2:19:30.000 the flora and fauna living next door. There are a 2:19:30.000 --> 2:19:35.280 lot of different bioregional practices happening all of the world. UM. 2:19:35.480 --> 2:19:37.960 I didn't note that it started in North America, but 2:19:38.400 --> 2:19:40.960 I noticed a lot of the big projects happening in 2:19:41.200 --> 2:19:46.400 like South America, you know, in Brazil, Sinaldo Ville, in 2:19:46.480 --> 2:19:52.959 Costa Rica Regenerativa, to think Colombia Regenerativa and the Pluriversity 2:19:53.000 --> 2:19:56.360 in the Himalayas as well, and many others. They're basically 2:19:56.400 --> 2:20:02.320 engaging in efforts involving applied education, ternity of agriculture systems, mapping, 2:20:02.800 --> 2:20:05.640 green belt restoration. There's the you know, the green Belt 2:20:05.680 --> 2:20:08.879 project in Africa as well, and these are all efforts 2:20:08.959 --> 2:20:14.640 to really understand and work with the bio regions that 2:20:14.879 --> 2:20:18.120 these people inhabit. So just a few tips that I 2:20:18.200 --> 2:20:22.080 wanted to end us off with you before we and 2:20:22.240 --> 2:20:27.480 things off. UM. I was trying to link um, the 2:20:27.560 --> 2:20:29.920 things that I talked about in some way to what 2:20:30.480 --> 2:20:34.360 people on the groups they are part of, the organizations 2:20:34.360 --> 2:20:37.360 they are part of, the communities are part of. Can 2:20:37.480 --> 2:20:41.959 do you know, as an action to strengthen their resilience 2:20:42.280 --> 2:20:47.119 or to develop you know, autonomy. Right in this case, 2:20:47.280 --> 2:20:50.760 it is the strength and resilience and also to develop 2:20:50.879 --> 2:20:55.039 the vitality of the bio region you inhabit. So, first 2:20:55.080 --> 2:21:00.400 of all, I think it's important that we learn as 2:21:00.520 --> 2:21:05.800 much as we can about our areas and learn especially 2:21:05.879 --> 2:21:10.720 through action, whether it be through cleanups, you know, observing 2:21:11.600 --> 2:21:14.680 the space around you, whether it be through observing weather 2:21:14.760 --> 2:21:19.680 patterns um betther be through looking at the we're on 2:21:19.800 --> 2:21:23.840 hikes and looking at the way that the temperature changes 2:21:24.080 --> 2:21:28.000 and the texture of the soil changes as you go 2:21:28.240 --> 2:21:33.320 up and down in um altitude. I think it's also 2:21:33.360 --> 2:21:36.680 important to try to get involved with actions too, um 2:21:38.280 --> 2:21:43.920 restore natural features and to understand the police that those 2:21:43.959 --> 2:21:48.080 natural features have in the broader by region. Of course, 2:21:48.080 --> 2:21:51.240 there are lots of sustainable projects happening all over the world. 2:21:51.840 --> 2:21:54.720 You know, if they aren't any in your area, UM 2:21:56.120 --> 2:21:58.480 be the change you want to see, start one, make 2:21:58.520 --> 2:22:03.640 it happen, and really also, I would say, find ways 2:22:03.760 --> 2:22:09.400 to link projects for environmental sustainability and restoration with projects 2:22:09.520 --> 2:22:15.120 for human humanancipation. Find ways to like support access to 2:22:15.200 --> 2:22:18.360 you know, basic human needs within your locality. To find 2:22:18.400 --> 2:22:22.160 ways to sort of because when we speak of bioregions 2:22:22.200 --> 2:22:24.640 and you know, living within our bioregions and so on 2:22:24.640 --> 2:22:27.960 and so forth, that's all well and good, But if, 2:22:28.800 --> 2:22:34.120 for example, your region has to import whole bunch of 2:22:34.200 --> 2:22:37.760 food all the time to support the population, I think 2:22:37.879 --> 2:22:42.040 there needs to be w used to UM decrease that 2:22:42.160 --> 2:22:45.760 sort of import and to find ways to UM live 2:22:45.840 --> 2:22:50.880 sustainably within the area. Raise awareness, of course as well 2:22:51.360 --> 2:22:57.240 UM about bioregional thinking, systems thinking, social ecological thinking, and yeah, 2:22:57.320 --> 2:23:03.320 just get to we're okay anti work work for figuring 2:23:03.400 --> 2:23:08.040 these structures of more horizontal, barriginally ethical and sustainable way 2:23:08.080 --> 2:23:12.800 of life. And of course disrupt the projects that getting 2:23:12.800 --> 2:23:17.600 the way of those schools. And I see that as 2:23:17.720 --> 2:23:22.000 tentatively as I can. To avoid legal trouble. That's it. 2:23:22.879 --> 2:23:26.560 Take care of everyone and be kind to every other thing. Piece. 2:23:35.320 --> 2:23:38.480 I call the Union Hall as his male life, and 2:23:38.560 --> 2:23:41.800 there I thank these people to planning to kill Dr King. 2:23:42.440 --> 2:23:46.240 On April four, Dr Martin Luther King was shot and 2:23:46.320 --> 2:23:49.640 killed in Memphis. A petty criminal named James Earl Ray 2:23:49.840 --> 2:23:52.600 was arrested. He played guilty to the crime and spent 2:23:52.640 --> 2:23:56.000 the rest of his life in prison. Case closed, right, 2:23:57.040 --> 2:24:02.520 James hyl Ray was upon the official story, the authorities 2:24:02.600 --> 2:24:05.840 would parade all we found a gun, the James old 2:24:05.879 --> 2:24:10.240 raybard in Birmingham that killed Dr King. Except it wasn't 2:24:10.320 --> 2:24:13.120 the gun that killed Dr. King. One of the problems 2:24:13.320 --> 2:24:16.680 that came out when I got the ray case was 2:24:16.840 --> 2:24:20.359 that some of the evidence, as far as I was concerned, 2:24:20.440 --> 2:24:24.560 did not match the circumstances. This is the MLK Tapes. 2:24:24.920 --> 2:24:27.840 The first episodes are available now. Listen on the I 2:24:28.000 --> 2:24:31.760 Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 2:24:33.959 --> 2:24:36.840 Look to your children's eyes to see the true magic 2:24:37.040 --> 2:24:40.400 of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You 2:24:40.560 --> 2:24:43.520 look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face 2:24:43.600 --> 2:24:46.960 of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They 2:24:47.000 --> 2:24:50.120 see tessure and pebbles. They see a windy path that 2:24:50.280 --> 2:24:54.520 could lead to adventure, and they see you. They're fearless. Guide. 2:24:54.800 --> 2:24:58.000 Is this fascinating world? Find a forest near you and 2:24:58.120 --> 2:25:01.120 start exploring and discover the forest dot Org brought to 2:25:01.120 --> 2:25:03.680 you by the United States Force Service and the ad Council. 2:25:10.040 --> 2:25:12.240 Welcome to it could happen here a podcast that is 2:25:12.920 --> 2:25:16.640 remarkably today not really so much about things falling apart 2:25:16.720 --> 2:25:20.240 and is mostly about things in fact getting better and 2:25:20.320 --> 2:25:23.440 how we can do that. Um. I'm your host, Christopher. 2:25:24.760 --> 2:25:27.840 With me today is Garrison and we're also joined by 2:25:27.920 --> 2:25:30.039 Nick and Max, who are two members of the artist 2:25:30.080 --> 2:25:33.200 collective Solar Punk Surf Club who have released a very 2:25:33.320 --> 2:25:35.879 very interesting new game that we are here in part 2:25:35.920 --> 2:25:38.879 of talk about called solar Punk Features. Hello nick I, Max, 2:25:38.959 --> 2:25:42.040 How how are you doing? Hey? Doing well? Thanks? Yeah, 2:25:42.160 --> 2:25:44.320 doing great? Thanks for having us on. Yea excited to 2:25:44.360 --> 2:25:47.240 have you to on. So I guess my first question 2:25:47.680 --> 2:25:52.240 is how did you too, get into game design and 2:25:52.360 --> 2:25:56.480 sort of first have the idea to do a sort 2:25:56.520 --> 2:26:00.120 of like political gaming project like this. It's a good questions. Oh, 2:26:00.560 --> 2:26:05.480 we're not, Um, we're definitely not game designers by profession 2:26:05.720 --> 2:26:09.800 or trade. Um. We're members of the artist collective solar 2:26:09.840 --> 2:26:18.600 Punk Surf Club, and we're particularly interested in creating artwork 2:26:19.040 --> 2:26:24.640 and social practice that pre figures these kinds of egalitarian 2:26:24.680 --> 2:26:27.400 futures that we'd like to see in the world. And 2:26:27.560 --> 2:26:31.880 so this game was something that we've been kind of 2:26:32.320 --> 2:26:34.120 a project that we've been thinking about and sitting on 2:26:34.280 --> 2:26:39.600 for a little while and was kind of something that 2:26:40.240 --> 2:26:42.960 made us excited, got us excited, and we think there's 2:26:43.120 --> 2:26:44.720 a whole bunch of other reasons that we think it's 2:26:44.760 --> 2:26:48.120 a really cool, um project to work on an important project, 2:26:48.360 --> 2:26:53.160 and um, yeah, so we kind of took a took 2:26:53.240 --> 2:26:56.040 a deep dive headfirst into the world of game design 2:26:56.160 --> 2:26:59.160 and learning how to how to do that over the past. 2:26:59.720 --> 2:27:04.280 You're so okay, So how about we I guess also 2:27:04.800 --> 2:27:08.160 start with I guess explaining what solar Punk features is 2:27:08.360 --> 2:27:10.440 and sort of how it works, and then we can 2:27:10.480 --> 2:27:14.920 get into the sort of political aspect of this sort 2:27:14.920 --> 2:27:19.000 of game design project. So, solar Punk Futures is a 2:27:19.440 --> 2:27:24.680 storytelling game where players imagine pathways to a desirable future 2:27:25.440 --> 2:27:31.080 by collaboratively overcoming real world challenges. The object of the 2:27:31.160 --> 2:27:35.680 game is to collectively remember one of the stories that 2:27:36.320 --> 2:27:41.520 grew into our utopia um. The idea is that through 2:27:42.879 --> 2:27:47.640 back casting, where you assume within the context of the 2:27:47.720 --> 2:27:52.600 game that players are already in utopia and merely remembering 2:27:52.680 --> 2:27:58.560 back to their ancestors struggle, that players can transcend the 2:27:58.680 --> 2:28:04.279 idea that what currently exists must necessarily exist, which social 2:28:04.400 --> 2:28:09.080 theorists Murray book Chin described as the acid that corrodes 2:28:09.200 --> 2:28:14.800 all visionary thinking. So we wanted to make a system 2:28:15.760 --> 2:28:21.000 to facilitate collaborative performance sort of. We call it a 2:28:21.040 --> 2:28:26.080 collaborative performance of memory, but one that combines sincerity with 2:28:27.040 --> 2:28:33.240 laughter and speculative storytelling. The game also combines a lot 2:28:33.320 --> 2:28:36.320 of different elements that we saw in other games, um, 2:28:37.080 --> 2:28:42.240 collaborative you know, the collaborative storytelling, cooperative gameplay, uh, some 2:28:42.520 --> 2:28:46.480 elements of role playing, and different kind of mechanics that 2:28:46.800 --> 2:28:51.040 we thought would build out that kind of like I 2:28:51.120 --> 2:28:54.760 said earlier, those prefigurations of those egalitarian world So we're 2:28:54.760 --> 2:28:57.360 trying to you know, we're trying to make a game 2:28:57.680 --> 2:29:00.720 that had the fiction and the idea you have utopia 2:29:00.760 --> 2:29:03.920 built in uh in terms of the goals of the game, 2:29:04.160 --> 2:29:06.400 but it was also we wanted to build it into 2:29:07.120 --> 2:29:08.920 some of the mechanics of how the game is actually 2:29:08.959 --> 2:29:13.280 played too. Um. But my question from here is sort 2:29:13.280 --> 2:29:15.119 of well, I mean, I guess firstly is I think 2:29:15.400 --> 2:29:17.560 what sort of specifically drew you to solar Punk is 2:29:17.640 --> 2:29:20.600 sort of an aesthetic for for this, Like I know 2:29:20.680 --> 2:29:23.240 there's been a lot of sort of like the kind 2:29:23.280 --> 2:29:26.640 of social pology solar punk fusions, but I'm interested in 2:29:27.120 --> 2:29:31.680 what you specifically to it. So we see solar punk 2:29:32.280 --> 2:29:38.959 as a visionary utopian politics and aesthetic that critically engages 2:29:39.520 --> 2:29:45.119 the reality of capitalist catastrophe while maintaining a radical optimism 2:29:45.200 --> 2:29:49.960 about humanity's hopes for a communal, ecological future. Nick was 2:29:50.040 --> 2:29:55.000 just speaking to this um. We see it as a 2:29:55.240 --> 2:30:00.240 restorative justice process on a planetary scale among p pole 2:30:00.400 --> 2:30:05.200 between humans and non human nature. So that means reclaiming 2:30:05.800 --> 2:30:10.600 pieces of the past, pre pre capitalist culture. UM. That 2:30:10.760 --> 2:30:16.039 means material accountability for old practices, and it also means 2:30:16.400 --> 2:30:20.960 radical adaptability towards new ones. I think it provided a 2:30:21.600 --> 2:30:28.320 useful way of synthesizing several currents that we had already 2:30:28.360 --> 2:30:34.680 been thinking about and involved in between new media and 2:30:35.240 --> 2:30:41.320 social practice, thinking not just about images and objects in space, 2:30:41.480 --> 2:30:46.680 but also the set of social relations that those things produced. Yeah, 2:30:46.720 --> 2:30:50.320 we're also we're like partisans within solar punk. I don't 2:30:50.360 --> 2:30:53.080 think there's I don't think there's too many pro capitalists 2:30:53.120 --> 2:30:55.680 within solar punk, but I think there are some people 2:30:55.720 --> 2:30:58.320 who are maybe drawn to the aesthetic but don't necessarily 2:30:58.400 --> 2:31:02.040 have a politics. But we do think that there's a 2:31:02.120 --> 2:31:07.720 kind of a latent horizontalism, a latent anarchistic politics in 2:31:08.240 --> 2:31:10.440 a lot of the aesthetics around solar punk, and so 2:31:11.879 --> 2:31:16.840 uh as a as a collaborative as an aesthetic that 2:31:17.000 --> 2:31:21.480 is being defined collaboratively by people online and elsewhere. You know, 2:31:21.560 --> 2:31:23.920 we wanted to kind of stick out of position about 2:31:24.520 --> 2:31:29.320 what we thought a really realistic utopian world might look 2:31:29.400 --> 2:31:35.920 and feel like. Yeah, and I think this is something 2:31:35.959 --> 2:31:39.920 else I know YouTube I'm very passionate about. UM is 2:31:40.240 --> 2:31:42.720 about specifically using games as a medium to do this 2:31:42.800 --> 2:31:47.400 and sort of this as like this kind of storytelling 2:31:47.520 --> 2:31:51.320 membrance as a specifically political intervention. So could you talk 2:31:51.320 --> 2:31:54.560 a bit more about you know, like a yeah, you know, 2:31:54.640 --> 2:31:57.320 good questions like okay, so why this and not on 2:31:57.560 --> 2:31:59.840 you know, on this sort of less more like like 2:32:00.000 --> 2:32:01.880 why this and not Guerrilla Gardening? Why this and not 2:32:01.959 --> 2:32:04.920 some other kind of organizing etcetera, etcetera. Um. Yeahn't should 2:32:04.959 --> 2:32:08.320 hear you to say about that? Yeah, well, I'm not 2:32:08.320 --> 2:32:10.560 gonna hate on Guerrilla Gardening. I definitely think it's a 2:32:10.640 --> 2:32:15.560 both situation. Um, it's also in the game. Yeah, that's true. 2:32:15.600 --> 2:32:18.039 It's it's one of the cards, one of the tools 2:32:18.080 --> 2:32:23.160 that you get to use as an ancestor. Um. Yeah, 2:32:23.200 --> 2:32:24.880 I think, you know, there's a lot of different things 2:32:24.959 --> 2:32:27.039 that we were thinking about when we were thinking about 2:32:27.080 --> 2:32:30.240 why a game that I got a little bit into earlier. 2:32:30.360 --> 2:32:34.240 But you know, for one, UM, I think it helps 2:32:34.360 --> 2:32:42.200 reach abroad and often deep politicized audience with a fun 2:32:42.760 --> 2:32:46.000 way to kind of engage in some thorny political questions. 2:32:46.640 --> 2:32:51.400 I think that games as a participatory medium were especially 2:32:51.480 --> 2:32:56.480 interesting for people who are interested in sort of anarchistic 2:32:58.280 --> 2:33:02.760 modes of teaching and education, in education through doing rather 2:33:02.879 --> 2:33:07.600 than lecture. Although you know, we were also read a 2:33:07.680 --> 2:33:10.120 lot of good political theories, so I'm not I'm not 2:33:10.200 --> 2:33:17.240 opposed to that. Um And then I think, uh, you know, 2:33:18.320 --> 2:33:23.199 games are also fun, and there's a lot of there's 2:33:23.200 --> 2:33:27.359 a lot of political organizing and activism work that happens 2:33:27.400 --> 2:33:33.879 out there that feels that's hard and that is necessary 2:33:34.320 --> 2:33:38.879 to do. But just because a lot of the important 2:33:38.959 --> 2:33:42.039 work to be done is hard doesn't mean everything that's 2:33:42.080 --> 2:33:46.880 hard is important. And everything that's fun is you know, 2:33:47.000 --> 2:33:51.720 trifling or not going to help us get where we're 2:33:51.760 --> 2:33:55.840 going and and overthrow capitalism and build a new world. 2:33:55.959 --> 2:34:01.680 So um, yeah, those are those are some of the reasons. Yeah, 2:34:01.680 --> 2:34:04.400 And I think that's especially sort of interesting point because 2:34:04.440 --> 2:34:08.680 I think a lot of what happens in left to 2:34:08.720 --> 2:34:12.080 spaces you get a bunch of people doing stuff and 2:34:12.320 --> 2:34:14.800 they burn not really fast because you know, you're doing 2:34:14.959 --> 2:34:18.200 an enormous amount of work. It's all miserable. A lot 2:34:18.280 --> 2:34:22.120 of the times you're getting physically assaulted, and like, I 2:34:22.240 --> 2:34:24.240 think that's one of the things that's interesting to me 2:34:24.320 --> 2:34:30.360 about this is you need other forms of sort of 2:34:31.760 --> 2:34:35.520 community building and sort of like you need other forms 2:34:35.520 --> 2:34:38.879 of organizing that do not involve you being repeatedly traumatized 2:34:38.879 --> 2:34:45.520 over and over again. And that, yeah, especially just working 2:34:45.560 --> 2:34:46.960 on something like this, and then I don't know, just 2:34:47.280 --> 2:34:49.320 playing with your friends and having having things that are 2:34:50.080 --> 2:34:53.000 like collaborative and joyful and community building is I think 2:34:53.120 --> 2:34:56.119 very important as a way to just you know, even 2:34:56.160 --> 2:34:58.280 just this is not a very basic logistical level, but 2:34:58.440 --> 2:35:03.360 prevent people from burning out. Yeah, yeah, And and I 2:35:03.480 --> 2:35:06.080 definitely think that there's a role there to prevent people 2:35:06.080 --> 2:35:09.240 from burning out and and inspiring people with some of 2:35:09.320 --> 2:35:12.000 the fun ideas, the ideas that they come up with 2:35:12.080 --> 2:35:14.800 when they're not looking at a Google doc meeting notes, 2:35:15.160 --> 2:35:17.520 but instead they're playing a card game and maybe drinking 2:35:17.520 --> 2:35:21.240 a couple of beers and they're like, oh, how would 2:35:21.280 --> 2:35:27.360 I combine guerrilla gardening and um, you know, performance art too, 2:35:28.520 --> 2:35:31.040 bring about you know, to solve a specific challenge of 2:35:31.160 --> 2:35:34.720 capitalism like deforestation or these are some of the cards 2:35:34.760 --> 2:35:37.640 in the game. Um, And so I think it can 2:35:37.720 --> 2:35:43.320 be inspiring, you know, it's also um, it can be educational. 2:35:43.640 --> 2:35:46.800 I played with some family. Uh I think the first 2:35:46.840 --> 2:35:49.280 time I played, when we got the physical copy that 2:35:49.440 --> 2:35:53.920 wasn't a play test, was with some family and they 2:35:54.080 --> 2:35:59.640 don't necessarily identify as leftists of any kind. But we 2:35:59.760 --> 2:36:05.200 had a really fun game where we explored ideas of 2:36:06.040 --> 2:36:12.600 deconstructing borders, and uh, you know they were It wasn't 2:36:12.680 --> 2:36:14.600 like I was guiding them in this direction. It was 2:36:14.640 --> 2:36:16.640 just kind of the assumption of the game that there 2:36:16.760 --> 2:36:22.160 was utopia, got beyond this ingrained capitalist realism that there 2:36:22.200 --> 2:36:25.520 just isn't that there isn't an alternative, And they're like, okay, 2:36:25.560 --> 2:36:27.800 well the game says we're already in utopia, so that 2:36:28.000 --> 2:36:30.320 means there's no private property. And I was like, whoa, 2:36:30.520 --> 2:36:32.920 that's a that's a jump I didn't expect from my 2:36:33.600 --> 2:36:38.800 from my family. One thing I'm interested in in terms 2:36:38.879 --> 2:36:43.120 of how it functions as a game is like balancing 2:36:43.920 --> 2:36:48.240 the actual more I don't know, fun based like role 2:36:48.280 --> 2:36:53.039 playing game elements with like it's kind of structure as 2:36:54.120 --> 2:36:56.680 a thought exercise, and like a world building game, like 2:36:56.760 --> 2:36:59.080 how how how do you approach trying to get a 2:36:59.120 --> 2:37:02.520 balance of like fun role playing as well as this 2:37:02.560 --> 2:37:05.880 type of like reverse world building. I was kind of 2:37:07.200 --> 2:37:09.760 I was still a little bit on the y A 2:37:09.879 --> 2:37:13.000 game in the first place question, but I'm also intrigued 2:37:13.080 --> 2:37:20.560 by the balancing fun and politics question. If you don't mind, 2:37:20.760 --> 2:37:23.080 I wanted to go back to the y A game 2:37:23.520 --> 2:37:26.840 for just a second, um, because I think maybe it 2:37:26.840 --> 2:37:32.360 will lead into this. Games are, you know, an ancient 2:37:33.040 --> 2:37:35.640 form of art. I know, I said we work in 2:37:35.760 --> 2:37:39.200 new media before, but games are actually an ancient form 2:37:39.280 --> 2:37:44.320 of art, and I would argue social practice. Um. There's 2:37:44.320 --> 2:37:47.760 a game called Senate. There's a game called the Royal 2:37:47.879 --> 2:37:51.920 Game of r which both date to five thousand years 2:37:51.959 --> 2:37:58.440 ago in ancient Egypt and ancient Mesopotamia, respectively. We did 2:37:58.840 --> 2:38:00.920 in making the game, we did a bunch of research 2:38:01.000 --> 2:38:05.040 on the history of of games. There's a fifteenth century 2:38:05.160 --> 2:38:09.240 game called the Game of the Goose from uh well, 2:38:09.320 --> 2:38:14.440 present day Italy that paired like these gorgeous illustrations, also 2:38:14.560 --> 2:38:20.280 with like didactic moral instruction. In the early early twentieth century, 2:38:20.600 --> 2:38:25.520 the Surrealists created a series of games um with the 2:38:25.600 --> 2:38:32.280 intention of breaking through traditional thought patterns and unleashing the 2:38:32.640 --> 2:38:36.560 potentials of the unconscious. They also wanted to subvert academic 2:38:36.680 --> 2:38:40.000 modes of inquiry UM. And then today, you know, some 2:38:40.160 --> 2:38:44.920 of our most popular table top games, you know, I 2:38:45.000 --> 2:38:48.039 think Nick was mentioning this earlier, how they can sometimes 2:38:48.120 --> 2:38:54.320 inscribe oppressive logics. So, you know, rather than a game 2:38:54.360 --> 2:38:57.840 where you're competing against other players to drive them into poverty, 2:38:58.680 --> 2:39:04.240 or a game where you're trying to colonize other players land, 2:39:05.160 --> 2:39:08.119 you know, for the purpose of world domination, we wanted 2:39:08.160 --> 2:39:16.120 to make a game that actually practices the cooperation, interdependence, care, consent, uh, 2:39:16.320 --> 2:39:18.080 these things that will be needed, you know, for it 2:39:18.160 --> 2:39:22.520 actually to transcend the social ecological crises of our day. 2:39:23.520 --> 2:39:25.280 And kind of to that point, you know, I would 2:39:25.320 --> 2:39:30.600 say that games always reflect the beliefs and norms of 2:39:30.680 --> 2:39:35.000 their historical context. So with Solar Punk Futures, we wanted 2:39:35.040 --> 2:39:39.720 to kind of flip the script and UM project using 2:39:39.959 --> 2:39:43.800 you know, the modalities of like speculative fiction, collaborative performance, 2:39:43.800 --> 2:39:49.120 as I mentioned, the values and more is of a 2:39:49.360 --> 2:39:54.400 of a desirable future. So games are are very human thing, 2:39:54.520 --> 2:39:59.000 an ancient human thing. And why do people play games? Uh? 2:40:00.240 --> 2:40:03.720 As I mentioned, you know, education is part of it, UM, 2:40:04.040 --> 2:40:07.360 but also building social bonds is another important piece, and 2:40:07.720 --> 2:40:10.800 that always is a company. It's a very like academic 2:40:10.879 --> 2:40:12.960 way of talking about it, maybe, but it is. It 2:40:13.120 --> 2:40:14.840 is fun. It has to be fun. That's why people 2:40:14.920 --> 2:40:18.360 do it. In terms of the to get a little 2:40:18.400 --> 2:40:21.400 deeper into the balancing question, you know, every game is 2:40:21.440 --> 2:40:24.440 a balance between a bunch of different competing factors. There's 2:40:24.720 --> 2:40:26.800 a lot of people who were talking about the balance 2:40:26.879 --> 2:40:32.320 between randomness and planning in in games, and the balance 2:40:33.040 --> 2:40:37.400 um between structure and free form, and it's definitely something 2:40:38.120 --> 2:40:40.720 if there's any game designers out there thinking about making, 2:40:41.040 --> 2:40:43.840 you know, games like this, play testing it will help 2:40:43.920 --> 2:40:48.280 you so much because you know, the game in a 2:40:48.440 --> 2:40:52.040 rough form existed in the spring of last year, but 2:40:52.480 --> 2:40:58.000 playtesting really helped us refine a lot of those questions 2:40:58.120 --> 2:41:03.439 and find that kind of balance between structure and freeformness. 2:41:03.600 --> 2:41:06.200 We wanted it to be accessible to people who aren't 2:41:06.480 --> 2:41:10.199 d n D players, but we've also played with people 2:41:10.240 --> 2:41:12.280 who play a lot of D n D and GM 2:41:12.400 --> 2:41:15.600 and all this stuff, and they took it in a 2:41:15.720 --> 2:41:18.040 lot of fun and wild directions that we didn't expect. 2:41:18.200 --> 2:41:21.199 That helped inform kind of new ways that we could, 2:41:21.879 --> 2:41:24.000 you know, we added some optional rules in there for 2:41:24.120 --> 2:41:26.960 people who want to take it in a different direction 2:41:27.200 --> 2:41:30.440 or or add more complexity, or or even or for 2:41:30.520 --> 2:41:33.000 other people who need a little bit like a handhold 2:41:33.040 --> 2:41:35.160 and want to flip a coin to decide something rather 2:41:35.240 --> 2:41:39.880 than um, you know, come up with it totally on 2:41:39.959 --> 2:41:44.360 their own. So I think, um, yeah, it's a hard 2:41:44.560 --> 2:41:47.680 it's a hard thing to balance, you know, all the 2:41:47.720 --> 2:41:50.560 different factors that go into a game. But I definitely 2:41:50.600 --> 2:41:53.240 think play testing and all the people who who played 2:41:53.280 --> 2:41:56.560 with us in those early games really helped helped us 2:41:56.600 --> 2:41:59.880 figure out the right balance. And to your earlier point 2:42:00.000 --> 2:42:06.480 about burnout, like activists burnout, Um, some people who we've 2:42:06.520 --> 2:42:11.640 invited to play the game maybe have have expressed this 2:42:11.760 --> 2:42:15.840 idea of like, well, um, I'd love to, but I 2:42:15.879 --> 2:42:22.600 don't have time, And maybe maybe they they think of 2:42:23.040 --> 2:42:25.520 of gaming. And I know I've certainly been guilty of 2:42:25.560 --> 2:42:28.960 this too, of feeling like guilt over things that feel 2:42:29.000 --> 2:42:31.800 like it indulges like you should be doing the real 2:42:31.879 --> 2:42:36.560 work all the time. But you know, I think it's 2:42:36.600 --> 2:42:40.720 important to hold that in the perspective of the tradition 2:42:40.920 --> 2:42:47.120 of of feminism. Civil rights advocates, others on the left 2:42:47.200 --> 2:42:52.160 that have talked about the importance of um joy that 2:42:52.320 --> 2:42:54.880 needs to be integral to our struggles. There's the famous 2:42:55.240 --> 2:42:57.520 I'm a Goldman quip. If I can't dance, it's not 2:42:57.680 --> 2:43:02.120 my revolution. So apps, you know, these ideas of like 2:43:02.879 --> 2:43:06.280 guilt and shame or martyrdom or whatever are kind of 2:43:06.400 --> 2:43:08.400 toxic parts of the old world that we need to 2:43:09.200 --> 2:43:12.640 to let go of. UM. So, I guess this is 2:43:12.720 --> 2:43:16.240 kind of coming back to say that there's as as 2:43:16.320 --> 2:43:18.840 Nick was saying, there is an ethical, pre figurative case 2:43:19.120 --> 2:43:24.119 of um of how games can allow people to um 2:43:25.240 --> 2:43:29.840 express themselves through play, but there's also a tactical one, 2:43:30.840 --> 2:43:34.039 and that games can be a structured way of thinking 2:43:34.080 --> 2:43:38.240 about how do we create a liberated society? One everything 2:43:38.280 --> 2:43:40.720 I think is sort of interesting about well, like, I 2:43:40.800 --> 2:43:46.560 guess this is somewhat less true of tabletop games as 2:43:46.600 --> 2:43:50.440 in medium, because typical games are a lot of sort 2:43:50.440 --> 2:43:53.840 of cloud of storytelling ish stuff. But like I know, 2:43:54.080 --> 2:43:56.080 like like so, like I I play a lot of 2:43:56.120 --> 2:44:00.280 video games, right, and it's like it's like a lot 2:44:00.320 --> 2:44:06.000 of the structure of what gaming is is sort of 2:44:08.959 --> 2:44:12.080 like it basically it turned into like another job that 2:44:12.200 --> 2:44:17.040 you have and it's interesting. Yeah, you know, and you 2:44:17.240 --> 2:44:19.480 you like, you get you get the same you even 2:44:19.560 --> 2:44:22.800 get like bogo like crossover between the terminology of like 2:44:23.320 --> 2:44:26.880 like you know, like I think like grinding is like 2:44:27.160 --> 2:44:30.120 the grind. Yeah, like grind. I think I think that 2:44:30.240 --> 2:44:32.400 came from gaming first and then moved over into the 2:44:32.440 --> 2:44:35.920 weird grindset stuff. But like I think you're right, yeah yeah, 2:44:36.080 --> 2:44:40.720 and gamification, right, that's another way that like gaming is 2:44:40.800 --> 2:44:44.480 being almost like weaponized by capitalism to get squeezed just 2:44:44.520 --> 2:44:47.760 a little bit more out of everyone. Yeah, there's there's 2:44:47.760 --> 2:44:52.040 a really interesting article whose name I am forgetting because 2:44:53.440 --> 2:44:59.560 I am yeah, I um, but Vicky Oustawal wrote it 2:44:59.640 --> 2:45:05.280 like a while ago that was about how like games 2:45:05.320 --> 2:45:08.920 are like it's you know, it's it's used sort of 2:45:08.959 --> 2:45:11.240 mechanically doing the same thing over and over and over again. 2:45:11.360 --> 2:45:13.640 But it's it's a problem because it's like it's it's 2:45:13.760 --> 2:45:16.320 labor that's like too perfect. It it doesn't create anything. 2:45:16.320 --> 2:45:20.440 There's no sort of like like there's there's no sort 2:45:20.480 --> 2:45:25.560 of like um like aspect that produces like value that 2:45:25.560 --> 2:45:27.080 could be extracted. You're just sort of you're just doing 2:45:27.120 --> 2:45:29.800 a thing over and over again, and it's like and 2:45:29.959 --> 2:45:31.640 you know, and that then then that you know, becomes 2:45:31.640 --> 2:45:33.320 a problem for capital in some sense. It's why there's 2:45:33.320 --> 2:45:35.280 all these panics about like everyone being addicted to gaming, 2:45:35.280 --> 2:45:38.040 because it's like, well, okay, you're not making money for us, 2:45:39.320 --> 2:45:42.640 But I think it's interesting simulator you could be driving 2:45:42.720 --> 2:45:46.400 some actual Yeah. Yeah, but you know, I think it's 2:45:46.400 --> 2:45:51.640 interesting that this is a political intervention into that of 2:45:51.720 --> 2:45:54.760 creating something that's you know, precisely the opposite of that 2:45:54.920 --> 2:45:57.600 that it's you know, you're not sort of like it's 2:45:57.640 --> 2:46:00.240 not just like an incredible intensification of the sort of 2:46:00.360 --> 2:46:04.200 like reward systems of working. It's hey, we're gonna come 2:46:04.200 --> 2:46:07.119 together and we're gonna tell we're gonna you know, make 2:46:07.160 --> 2:46:09.480 collaborative decisions and overcome challenges. And I think I think 2:46:09.520 --> 2:46:11.880 that's a very interesting sort of political angle to come 2:46:11.920 --> 2:46:17.440 at this from. Yeah, I think a lot of a 2:46:17.520 --> 2:46:22.320 lot of tabletop games in particular, compared to video games. 2:46:23.000 --> 2:46:26.360 I think, well, i'll say, role playing games in particular 2:46:26.800 --> 2:46:28.880 put you in a driver's seat in a way that 2:46:29.000 --> 2:46:33.440 I think can is is hard, right, Like sometimes I'm 2:46:33.480 --> 2:46:35.840 too tired to or if I think, you know, I 2:46:35.959 --> 2:46:37.760 have a I have a D and D night, and 2:46:37.879 --> 2:46:39.600 I'm like, I don't know if I have the energy 2:46:39.640 --> 2:46:43.880 for this after working all day, um, whereas I might 2:46:44.000 --> 2:46:47.600 have energy to play you know, a video game RPG 2:46:47.800 --> 2:46:50.039 that kind of walks me, you know, handholds me through 2:46:50.040 --> 2:46:55.320 a story. Um, it's kind of more like watching more passive. UM. 2:46:56.000 --> 2:46:59.400 But I do think that there's I just think there's 2:46:59.440 --> 2:47:09.760 something so important about thinking through what it might be 2:47:09.920 --> 2:47:14.600 like to live in this utopian society. And it's important, 2:47:14.640 --> 2:47:18.720 I think because if we don't well, for one, a 2:47:18.800 --> 2:47:22.000 ton of people just don't even think about it. Um. 2:47:22.200 --> 2:47:24.280 And so to the extent that this game is something 2:47:24.360 --> 2:47:27.280 that gets bought or played with families of people who 2:47:27.560 --> 2:47:29.960 are you know, one of the many people who have 2:47:30.080 --> 2:47:33.760 been de politicized in this country. UM, I think that 2:47:33.879 --> 2:47:37.000 can be really helpful. But I also think that Um, 2:47:38.879 --> 2:47:42.120 I've played it and I've found really fun and exciting 2:47:42.200 --> 2:47:45.200 ideas that I wouldn't have thought about if I was 2:47:45.280 --> 2:47:48.920 staring at a power map or something and thinking where 2:47:49.000 --> 2:47:52.800 can we intervene in my city too, you know, help 2:47:53.720 --> 2:47:57.039 help solve this or that problem. So I think, yeah, 2:47:57.040 --> 2:47:59.560 I think there's power there. So I think one of 2:47:59.640 --> 2:48:02.160 the thinks I think it's interesting to me about how 2:48:02.320 --> 2:48:04.959 you tube sort of the team put this product together. 2:48:05.120 --> 2:48:06.560 And it's also like you know, so like you can 2:48:06.600 --> 2:48:08.880 buy the versions of it that have like very very 2:48:08.959 --> 2:48:11.640 nice art, but you also just put the cards and 2:48:11.720 --> 2:48:13.000 the rules up for free and you can just sort 2:48:13.040 --> 2:48:14.840 of print and play its owner. Yeah, if you could 2:48:14.840 --> 2:48:18.439 talk a bit about decision you do that democratic accessibility 2:48:18.560 --> 2:48:22.040 is really important to us. It's part of the concept 2:48:22.120 --> 2:48:25.880 that we wanted to integrate into every aspect of the 2:48:25.959 --> 2:48:30.320 game's production and distribution. And so yeah, the whole thing 2:48:30.440 --> 2:48:36.040 is available as a free print and play PDF download. UM. 2:48:36.240 --> 2:48:41.920 It's all Creative Commons licensed. UM. So that's yeah. And 2:48:42.240 --> 2:48:44.120 you know, at the same time, as you mentioned, we 2:48:45.800 --> 2:48:53.039 we uh are interested in materiality and want wanted to create, um, 2:48:54.560 --> 2:48:56.960 something that could could a company, you know, a face 2:48:57.040 --> 2:49:01.039 to face interaction as well, which is you know, frankly, well, 2:49:01.040 --> 2:49:04.360 I'll just speak for myself. That's probably more my interest. UM, 2:49:04.959 --> 2:49:07.000 even though I think you know like that we have 2:49:07.080 --> 2:49:09.959 a tabletop simulator version two, which I think is really cool. 2:49:10.600 --> 2:49:14.200 But as far as the decision to make the game, 2:49:14.720 --> 2:49:18.200 you know, free, free forever, um. We want people to play. 2:49:18.320 --> 2:49:22.120 We want it to be genuinely useful. Um, this is 2:49:22.200 --> 2:49:26.880 not a this is not a capitalistic business venture. We're 2:49:27.040 --> 2:49:29.840 running a break even budget and want to just keep 2:49:30.240 --> 2:49:33.760 doing projects and you know, elaborating like the solar punk 2:49:33.920 --> 2:49:37.720 tradition and connecting it to social, ecological, communalist politics. So 2:49:38.760 --> 2:49:41.960 if this can be a catalyst towards being able to 2:49:42.080 --> 2:49:46.840 do more of that, then um, then that's you know, 2:49:47.600 --> 2:49:49.879 we'll have we'll have succeeded on our on our terms 2:49:49.920 --> 2:49:53.800 at least. What's the satus of physical copies of how 2:49:53.840 --> 2:49:59.119 can people if they want to use cards and stuff? 2:49:59.240 --> 2:50:02.400 What is how how would want to go about getting those? Yeah, 2:50:02.440 --> 2:50:06.200 so there's a couple of different ways. People can download 2:50:06.240 --> 2:50:08.800 the free print and play if they like. If they 2:50:08.879 --> 2:50:10.760 really love it, they want to buy the physical copy. 2:50:11.280 --> 2:50:14.560 We sold out of the kind of first edition that 2:50:14.720 --> 2:50:18.600 we were able to afford to print, but we're raising 2:50:19.160 --> 2:50:22.680 money on Kickstarter for a second edition. So if people 2:50:22.800 --> 2:50:25.240 back us at a certain tier there I think it's 2:50:25.320 --> 2:50:28.959 forty five dollars or higher. Uh, you get a copy 2:50:28.959 --> 2:50:31.920 of the game when we're able to print them. Uh, 2:50:32.320 --> 2:50:36.520 And so yeah, so it's a um and of course, 2:50:36.680 --> 2:50:39.359 as Max mentioned, you can also play on tabletop simulator. 2:50:40.480 --> 2:50:43.440 But yeah, we're we're really excited about it. I think 2:50:44.240 --> 2:50:48.280 we're also hoping to take it around to some you know, 2:50:48.400 --> 2:50:53.920 political workshops, probably on Zoom for the foreseeable future, um 2:50:55.000 --> 2:50:59.160 get maybe game convention, tabletop game conventions and stuff, and 2:50:59.400 --> 2:51:03.200 also some art art shows um to be announced, to 2:51:03.320 --> 2:51:06.320 be announced, but there's a couple of art shows that 2:51:06.400 --> 2:51:11.560 we're excited to be showing it in. So um yeah. Yeah. 2:51:11.680 --> 2:51:14.040 One one thing I'm really excited about in terms of 2:51:14.360 --> 2:51:19.440 playing this at some point is the I think starting 2:51:19.520 --> 2:51:23.640 from the point of like you're trying to build the 2:51:23.760 --> 2:51:27.520 world now, you can really easy, it's really easy to 2:51:27.600 --> 2:51:31.560 run into ruts um starting at the end point than 2:51:31.640 --> 2:51:37.160 working backwards, I think because that produces that reverse type 2:51:37.200 --> 2:51:39.720 of thought. I think it's a little bit easier for 2:51:39.920 --> 2:51:43.360 to find the path than just starting here and looking 2:51:43.360 --> 2:51:45.840 at the world to be like, oh, how do we 2:51:46.000 --> 2:51:48.520 do anything to make it better? Instead of being at 2:51:48.520 --> 2:51:50.800 the opposite place and being like, what's what is the 2:51:50.800 --> 2:51:54.640 way to backtrack? I think can maybe give you some 2:51:55.440 --> 2:51:59.360 connections and ideas that you may not have had otherwise 2:51:59.400 --> 2:52:02.680 because we're kind of always stuck in the now, how 2:52:02.720 --> 2:52:06.160 do we get now better. So I would be very 2:52:06.160 --> 2:52:10.040 excited to try try this out at some point and 2:52:10.360 --> 2:52:15.560 uh and experience that backtrack thinking, because I think it's 2:52:15.680 --> 2:52:19.400 a Yeah, I'm really intrigued with that specific aspect of 2:52:19.440 --> 2:52:21.560 the game, because yeah, I'm sure there's gonna be a 2:52:21.600 --> 2:52:25.000 lot of solar Punk games within the next decade probably, Um, 2:52:25.320 --> 2:52:27.160 and this is one aspect that I think actually is 2:52:27.280 --> 2:52:31.200 really unique and something that's not just intrinsic to solar Punk. Um. 2:52:31.760 --> 2:52:33.360 You know, it's something that's kind of been added on. 2:52:33.560 --> 2:52:39.000 So uh, that's something I'm really excited about. And yeah, 2:52:39.000 --> 2:52:44.760 I would love to love to pick this up uh soon. Yeah, 2:52:44.800 --> 2:52:47.240 thank you for saying that. Um. I think one of 2:52:47.320 --> 2:52:51.760 the things that we hope that the game does is 2:52:51.959 --> 2:52:56.280 help people break through that capitalist realism. Yeah, like there 2:52:56.400 --> 2:52:58.720 is no alternative. It's easier to imagine the end of 2:52:58.720 --> 2:53:01.400 the world than the end of capitalism, et cetera. Um. 2:53:02.160 --> 2:53:05.000 And you know, similarly, if you ask people to imagine 2:53:05.080 --> 2:53:09.960 the future, uh, it's very hard and uh and if 2:53:10.040 --> 2:53:14.720 they are able to at all, it is often extrapolating 2:53:14.920 --> 2:53:19.400 sort of the worst trends of today into a dystopian future. Yeah, 2:53:19.400 --> 2:53:22.640 I remember slightly. I remember So when when I was 2:53:22.720 --> 2:53:24.800 in I was in middle school or something, we had 2:53:24.800 --> 2:53:26.800 this society where we had to like write a you 2:53:27.040 --> 2:53:29.200 like write what are perfect like utopian society would be, 2:53:29.920 --> 2:53:32.280 and we like did it, and like three quarters of 2:53:32.400 --> 2:53:34.480 the like society people come up with were just like 2:53:35.320 --> 2:53:38.640 the worst imaginable dystopia. It was just like it's just 2:53:39.000 --> 2:53:42.480 really grim. Sort of Yeah, if I was gonna, if 2:53:42.520 --> 2:53:45.480 I was gonna make what I thought was an accurate 2:53:45.560 --> 2:53:49.600 prediction of the future, it might be more similar to 2:53:50.400 --> 2:53:54.720 the first season of this podcast, then yeah, uh, some 2:53:54.920 --> 2:53:58.520 of the hopeful futures. But I don't I also don't think. 2:53:59.080 --> 2:54:02.160 I don't think the door is closed on any kind 2:54:02.200 --> 2:54:04.400 of solar punk future. I think it's important. One of 2:54:04.440 --> 2:54:07.720 the important aspects that we included that that is that 2:54:07.840 --> 2:54:12.439 makes solar punk different than just kind of vague utopianism 2:54:12.680 --> 2:54:15.560 is that we think we ask people to also think 2:54:15.560 --> 2:54:18.880 about the barriers they run into, to think about, you 2:54:18.920 --> 2:54:22.400 know what, who's gonna who's gonna oppose you if you're 2:54:22.480 --> 2:54:29.480 trying to um, you know, deal with polluted water and 2:54:29.840 --> 2:54:35.200 you find some really great system and improve a region's 2:54:35.240 --> 2:54:38.600 water supply, you know, Nestley might come in and buy 2:54:38.680 --> 2:54:41.400 the rights to the whole region, the whole watershed. So 2:54:42.120 --> 2:54:46.480 you know, imagining those that opposition, the material conditions that 2:54:47.080 --> 2:54:51.400 might change, and how you adapt to them. We hope 2:54:51.440 --> 2:54:56.040 that's something that people also benefit from who played this 2:54:56.200 --> 2:55:01.600 game and and make some prediction ends about the strategic 2:55:01.640 --> 2:55:04.240 decisions that capital is going to make to oppose your 2:55:04.600 --> 2:55:08.800 your utopian vision. And I hope there are more solar 2:55:08.879 --> 2:55:11.880 punk games, Like you said, I hope there's a preponderance 2:55:11.920 --> 2:55:15.440 of solar punk art in the in the next decade. 2:55:15.480 --> 2:55:18.160 That would be amazing. And you know, to what you 2:55:18.240 --> 2:55:21.360 were just saying, you're right, solar punk doesn't mean the 2:55:21.640 --> 2:55:25.520 end of politics, doesn't mean the absence of conflict. Um. 2:55:26.480 --> 2:55:28.680 So I think we tried to integrate that into the game. 2:55:29.120 --> 2:55:32.560 What makes a good solar punk stories that it is 2:55:32.720 --> 2:55:40.720 plausible yet distinctly anti utopian, anti dystopian rather um it 2:55:40.920 --> 2:55:46.400 you know, provides a glimpse into a future possibility for say, 2:55:46.560 --> 2:55:51.959 the reharmonization of humans with other humans, humans with non 2:55:52.040 --> 2:55:57.240 human nature, um, and that is going to involve some 2:55:57.480 --> 2:56:01.920 amount of opposition on the one hand and reconstruction on 2:56:02.040 --> 2:56:06.120 the other. In short to to critique by building as 2:56:06.200 --> 2:56:10.120 the slogan goes all right, yeah, plugs time. What do 2:56:10.160 --> 2:56:13.880 you what do you need two have plugs? Uh? So yeah, 2:56:13.920 --> 2:56:17.359 we have an upcoming live stream on Twitch with Veterans 2:56:17.440 --> 2:56:20.360 for Peace. They have some gamers for Peace and Tuesday 2:56:20.520 --> 2:56:24.039 night on at eight p m they're gonna be playing 2:56:24.080 --> 2:56:27.600 solar Punk solar Punk Futures with us. Uh. If people 2:56:27.600 --> 2:56:30.760 are interested in the game, they can download it for 2:56:30.920 --> 2:56:33.320 print and play on our website at h T T 2:56:33.440 --> 2:56:39.040 P colon slash Slash the Future dot w TF uh 2:56:39.280 --> 2:56:42.720 and UH. People can also find a link to our 2:56:42.800 --> 2:56:45.960 kickstarter on that website if they're interested in pre ordering 2:56:46.760 --> 2:56:50.320 physical copy, which we very much appreciate. We're getting close 2:56:50.400 --> 2:56:55.800 to funded. That's very exciting. I hope, I hope, I hope. 2:56:55.800 --> 2:56:57.400 I hope it gets funded. I want to see more 2:56:57.440 --> 2:57:02.959 of these because the art is extremely cool. And yeah, well, 2:57:03.040 --> 2:57:05.400 thank you to you for coming on this. This has 2:57:05.440 --> 2:57:08.240 been it could happen here and we'll see you the 2:57:08.360 --> 2:57:11.840 next time an episode goes up. I don't know when 2:57:11.879 --> 2:57:28.240 that's gonna be right now, So yeah, wonderful extros. Hey, 2:57:28.360 --> 2:57:31.440 We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from 2:57:31.480 --> 2:57:34.240 now until the heat Death of the universe. It could 2:57:34.280 --> 2:57:36.640 Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. Or 2:57:36.720 --> 2:57:39.440 more podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit our website cool 2:57:39.520 --> 2:57:41.440 zone media dot com or check us out on the 2:57:41.520 --> 2:57:44.200 I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen 2:57:44.240 --> 2:57:47.160 to podcasts. You can find sources for It could Happen Here, 2:57:47.280 --> 2:57:50.680 updated monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. 2:57:50.920 --> 2:57:55.520 Thanks for listening. I'm Colleen with Join me, the host 2:57:55.600 --> 2:57:58.240 of Eating While Broke podcast. While I Eat a meal 2:57:58.360 --> 2:58:02.440 created by self made entree snors, influencers and celebrities over 2:58:02.480 --> 2:58:04.720 a meal they once eight when they were broke. Today 2:58:04.760 --> 2:58:07.800 I have the lovely aj Crimson, the official Princess of 2:58:07.959 --> 2:58:12.280 comfin Asia, Kidding and Assia. This is the professor we're 2:58:12.320 --> 2:58:15.080 here on Eating while Broken. Today, I'm gonna break down 2:58:15.640 --> 2:58:17.520 my meal that got me through a time when I 2:58:17.640 --> 2:58:20.160 was broken. Listen to Eating While Broke on the I 2:58:20.360 --> 2:58:23.320 Heart Radio app, on Apple podcasts, or wherever you get 2:58:23.400 --> 2:58:27.080 your podcasts. Adoption of teens from foster care is a 2:58:27.200 --> 2:58:29.480 topic not enough people know about, and we're here to 2:58:29.560 --> 2:58:32.439 change that. 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