1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: Mama, what does the chicken say? Draff really, giraffe draw? 2 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: You're not gonna get it all right. Just make sure 3 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: you nail the big stuff, like making sure your kids 4 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: are buckled correctly in the right seat for their agent's eyes. 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: Get it right visits n h d S a dot 6 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: gov slash the Right Seat, brought to you by the 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in the AD Council. Hi, everybody, 8 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: I'm Rachel Banetta and I have my very own podcast 9 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: called Bench with Banetta. You kidding make I'm just here 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: so I won't get fine. Every week, I'm gonna be 11 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: talking about all the things I find fascinating about the NFL. 12 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: And I'm doing something that has never been done before. 13 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: I'm opening my d M s. D MS now open 14 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: listen every Tuesday and join me on the Bench. Subscribe 15 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: now and listen to the Bench with Banetta podcast on 16 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, on Apple Podcasts, or wherever 17 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. The art world, it is essentially 18 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 1: a money laundering business. The best fakes are still hanging 19 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: on people's walls. You know they don't even know or 20 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: suspect that their faces. I'm Ale Baldwin, and this is 21 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: a podcast about deception, greed, and forgery in the art world. 22 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: I just walked in and saw this great red painting 23 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: presuming to be a rothco. Of course, art forgeries only 24 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: happen because there's money to be made, a lot of money. 25 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: I'm listening to how what they're paying for these things. 26 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: It was an incredible mans of money. You knew the 27 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: painting was fake. Um Listen to Art Fraud starting February 28 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: one on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or 29 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. M Hey, everybody, Robert Evans 30 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: here and I wanted to let you know this is 31 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: a compilation episode. So every episode of the week that 32 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat 33 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: less ads package for you to listen to in a 34 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,959 Speaker 1: long stretch if you want. If you've been listening to 35 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: the episodes every day this week, there's gonna be nothing 36 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: new here for you, but you can make your own decisions. 37 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to it could happen Here a podcast about things 38 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: falling apart, and today it's it's there. There's there's a 39 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: little bit of I'm getting put back together, but today's 40 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: mostly them falling apart. Um, I'm your host, Christopher Wong. 41 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: With me, I have Lucy who is a teacher in 42 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: Chicago public schools and as part of the Teachers Union, 43 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 1: and today we're going to be talking about just the 44 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: absolute shit show that is being inflicted on teachers and 45 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: students in public schools. And Lucy, how how are you? 46 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: How are you doing? Um? You know, it's it's been 47 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: kind of weird, but all in all, I'm in good spirits. 48 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: I think my sisters and brothers and CTU are in 49 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:14,119 Speaker 1: good spirits. So we're going to keep fighting the good fight. Yeah. So, 50 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: before before we fully start to get into the teachers 51 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: Union and Lord Lightfoot's fuckery, I want to sort of 52 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: get a bit of context for people who don't live 53 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: in Chicago or just don't know much about the only politics, 54 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: because lord, you know, if you read sort of like 55 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: media accounts of this, like you you, you you may 56 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: be sort of misled into into thinking that there's like 57 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: even some semblance of good faith going on here from 58 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: Loyd Lightfoot, And like I just I just want to 59 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: like do a great like a Lord Lightfoot Greatest hits 60 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: real for a second. So Lightfoot, like immediately after she 61 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: got elected, like the like the first thing she does 62 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: she starts, she's she literally she's like, Okay, there's too 63 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: much crime on the subway. We're gonna put swat teams 64 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: on them. So you know, you just be on the 65 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: red lighte and there's just wat team and you know, 66 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: because again this is what happens. You put a swamp 67 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: team on the fucking subway, they immediately shot a dude 68 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: in the back for nothing, you just literally no reason. 69 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: They shot him in the back. Um. So that that 70 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: was like, that was like like the first like few 71 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: weeks of Lightfoot. And then during the uprising, she like 72 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: she she turned the rich part of Chicago and she's 73 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: like a medieval castle like she like like like raised 74 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 1: all the drawbridges into the middle of the city so 75 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: that no one could get into the central part of 76 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: the city. It was like awful. And then you know, 77 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: then as as as we sort of like there there's 78 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: more and more sort of bad lightfoot stuff. Most recently, 79 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: so Chicago got a bunch of aid money from the 80 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: federal government and she spent two one million dollars of 81 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: it paying the police, not the schools. Yeah, nope, and 82 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:50,679 Speaker 1: CPD like these again, I think I talked about this before, 83 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: but like when when the CIA was like our initial 84 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 1: torturing program failed, where do we go to like find 85 00:04:57,279 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: people who know how to torture? They brought into Chicago 86 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: Police Detective like and you know, and and this is 87 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:03,919 Speaker 1: the CPD, Like like like there's there's two have a CPD, right, 88 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: there's there's like the torture CPD. And then related to 89 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: them but not necessarily identical is the part of the 90 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: CPD that's just a cartel. Like there there was there 91 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: was a thing in in at the beginning of the 92 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: tens were like it turned out that like the almost 93 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: like the huge parts of the CPD were literally just 94 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 1: a cartel. They're running drugs. They were just like doing 95 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 1: shakedowns for and and like one person total, like you 96 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 1: got arrested by the FBI for and everyone else is 97 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: just still there. It's great, it's a it's a time 98 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: so that this is this is who Lorrily Lightfoot is. 99 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: Um she sucks like everyone hates her like like her. 100 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: The people who should be her political allies hate her. 101 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 1: Like Chicago Chargo got like a police reform bill, and 102 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: the reason it was like a very mild one but 103 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: the reason it happened was just that like like the 104 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: like the Alderman passed it out of just pure spite 105 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 1: because of how much they don't like Lightfoot. So this 106 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: is this is the this has been my Christopher shouts 107 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:00,720 Speaker 1: that Lightfoot intruded this, but yeah, needs say life Foot 108 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: not acting in good faith, just absolutely Batman villain. Yeah, 109 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: villain's incredible. No, actually that's not fair because a lot 110 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: of Batman villains are kind of right. Yeah, yeah, she's 111 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: she's she's she's like the nightmare refusion of like Batman 112 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: and a Batman villain, Like what I what are you think? 113 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 1: The worst aspects of both, and then made them the mayor. 114 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: It's it's a yeah, I've been kind of Um so, 115 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 1: I moved here almost a year ago from a smaller city, 116 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: and I did not like the mayor in my city, 117 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: and he really was a big fan of like the 118 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: Lory Lightfoot playbook. But um, I guess people weren't as 119 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:52,480 Speaker 1: politically involved there. And my first week working in Chicago 120 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: public schools, um, somebody mentioned the mayor mentioned Laurie, and 121 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: everybody kind of groaned, and I was like, oh, you 122 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: don't like her, you don't like your mayor, And I 123 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: mean I knew they didn't, but I was just kind 124 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: of testing the waters, and this lady looks at me 125 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: and goes, we hate her. I swear, like if you 126 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: mentioned her name in this city, people practically spit on 127 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 1: the ground. It's like it's amazing because like men demon Yeah, 128 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: it's like like Chicago dotoriously we all hate her. Politicians, 129 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: but like Lightfoot, like like that there were you would 130 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: find rama Manuel supporters, right, Like, I don't know a 131 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: single lord like outside of the schools. Within the schools, 132 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: everyone I know, like even even the even the cops 133 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: don't like her, Like she keeps funneling hundreds of billions 134 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: of dollars and they still don't like her. It's like, 135 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: it's incredible. Do you unite the teachers union and the 136 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: police union. One siding that's the only thing that they've 137 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: ever agreed on is fuck Lory Lightfoot. It's really incredible. 138 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: So life, what's latest scheme? Um? Yeah, do you do 139 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: you want to explain? I guess go back a little 140 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: bit in into the history of sort of how how 141 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: Chicago and Chicago Public schools have kind of been responding 142 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: to COVID and then how they just did this stuff 143 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: and yeah, I guess like, yeah, give us a background, 144 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: like what's going on right now? Well, I'm going to 145 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: preface with two things. One, I am fairly new here, 146 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: so I don't know all of the details. And two, 147 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: I really want to emphasize that I'm just here talking 148 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: for myself. I don't represent CTU in any way. This 149 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: is just I wanted to talk about my feelings on things. 150 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: So UM. What I do know is they were doing 151 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: remote learning, and when I arrived here in March, we 152 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: were fully remote and UM. Then in the fourth marketing period, 153 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: so like around like after spring break, UM we moved 154 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: to a hybrid model, so we had parents and kids 155 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 1: could like choose if they wanted to stay online or 156 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: if they wanted to be in person. UM. I think 157 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: like sixty percent or more, depending on what school UM 158 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 1: chose the online option. Like a lot of parents just 159 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: were not comfortable putting their kids in UM. I know 160 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: that there's been like a ton of talk about UM, 161 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: you know, like the most economically disadvantaged families need the 162 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: schools open, but it's kind of been the reverse. It's 163 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: been the people who have UM more means are more 164 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: interested in opening and people who uh are less well 165 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: off are a little more resistant to it. I mean, 166 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: that's not the same across the board. I don't want 167 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: to generalize too much, but that's been what I've seen. UM. 168 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,079 Speaker 1: I think, if I had to guess it, there's a 169 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: lot of history behind that. Like UM, I mean, first 170 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: of all, just can your family afford an illness like this? 171 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: And people living in multi general generational households. And I 172 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: think something that CPS and our government in general really 173 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: fail to acknowledge is just how how much mistrust there 174 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: is between government institutions, public schools, and UM people of color, 175 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: and for good reason. You know, they have been repeatedly 176 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:32,319 Speaker 1: just screwed over by these institutions. And I can absolutely 177 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,839 Speaker 1: understand why they might not trust a school district that says, hey, 178 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: we'll keep your kids safe, because they weren't doing it 179 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: before the pandemic. UM. So we had I had like 180 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: seven kids in one of my classes, and like ten 181 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: and another and then the rest of them were online. 182 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: And I'm like sitting at a computer teaching to the 183 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: kids online and to the kids in their room. All 184 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: the kids in the room are on their computers too. 185 00:10:55,880 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: So that we can like still be like one cohesive class. UM. 186 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: It was hard, and it was like kind of like 187 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: mentally fatiguing, like just going back and forth like that. 188 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: But you know, we made it work. I was kind 189 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: of I was really proud of us, Like we made 190 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 1: it work. We made it happen. We stayed in contact 191 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: with the families and the kids constantly, UM and like 192 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 1: as things moved on and as numbers started going down, 193 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: more people started warning their kids back UM, and then 194 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: after spring break they UM well, so like after springbreak 195 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: they let people come back. And then as we moved 196 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: towards on our more and more kids were coming back. 197 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: Which it was the school I was in was UM 198 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: handling it very well. Our principle was really committed to 199 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: like keeping us safe. So there was UM testing Like 200 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 1: once a week somebody would come back and be like, yo, 201 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: go get your COVID test. UM. I don't know if 202 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:53,199 Speaker 1: kids were being tested, but I know teachers were. UM. 203 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: Then summer happens. I ended up in a different school 204 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: in the Austin neighborhood, which is UM a lot less 205 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: advantage than the one that I had been working in, 206 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 1: and we open back up fully in person, no remote 207 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: option like at all, like it. UM. The only people 208 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 1: who could get remote were kids that were deemed medically fragile, 209 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 1: but they had to one submit like tons of paperwork 210 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: to prove that and to their siblings could not stay removed. 211 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: So at that point, it's like, why, what's the point? 212 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: And if you were a teacher who had a medically 213 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,199 Speaker 1: fragile child in the schools, your kid could be remote, 214 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 1: but you couldn't, So then, you know, how is that 215 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: going to work? UM? And I found in the school 216 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: where I was. You know, this is the issue with 217 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: Chicago and with you know, most of the country is 218 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: some schools have more resources than others. And the school 219 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 1: I didn't know where to get tested. Nobody like told me. 220 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: I think there was some kind of testing program, not sure, 221 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: definitely nothing for students. UM. I've since moved to a 222 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: high school that has more resources, but still I have 223 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 1: not been able to figure out where the hec to 224 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: get testing. Which has been one of the biggest things 225 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: that uh CTU is asking for is we want UM 226 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: opt out testing instead of opt in testing, so you 227 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: would automatically be registered to test, and if you didn't 228 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 1: want to test, then you would have to opt out, 229 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: which would end up with far more people getting tested 230 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: and make it a lot easier, because a big part 231 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: of why people are signing up is it's really hard, 232 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: Like I don't know where to find it that everyone's 233 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: like it's in your emails somewhere. I've searched my email. 234 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: I don't know, Like we get like emails a day, 235 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: like yeah, and it's yeah, Like you know, I think 236 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,600 Speaker 1: anyone anyone who remembers what being in a school is 237 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: like those they have, I mean just the absolute worst 238 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: bureaucratic stuff, like it's it's it's it's like honestly, like 239 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 1: it's like my experiences with like academia and like back 240 00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: in the high school, like their tech stuff was like 241 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: worse than corporate sex stuff, which is like astounding. Mm hmm. 242 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: It's it's ridiculous. Do you want to jump into here 243 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,959 Speaker 1: into Lightfoot's like okay, Lightfoot has like invented a new 244 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: kind of COVID denialism, which is like like she she's 245 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: now turned into like a COVID test denihilist, Like it's incredible, 246 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: like she she she has she went on this rant 247 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: about how like COVID testing is a quote quasi medical 248 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: procedure and how you're gonna get lost, like it's it's bizarre. 249 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: So this this journalist asked her about the testing because 250 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: and I don't know which journalist that was, but I 251 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: want to thank them so much because they have seen 252 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: a lot of the reporters are actually out there trying 253 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 1: to keep c t use demands in the conversation as 254 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: opposed to this like whole oh lazy teachers don't want 255 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: to work like fun off, we do want to be working. Um. 256 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: But so I almost thought that she had like mixed 257 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: up with this since and thought that they were talking 258 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: about vaccines. But even so, like stop it, stop, just 259 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: stop doing that. But who is having a reaction to 260 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: a COVID test? It is like literally a cute tip, 261 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: like like you just stick They don't even stick it 262 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: that far up your nose anymore. They just do a 263 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: little in your nostril or like a mouth swot. Yeah. 264 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: Like actually, like as someone who had like like I 265 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: genuinely did have a kind of bad reaction because I 266 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: jabbed it up really far and like I was like 267 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: sneezing a lot afterwards. But it's like, oh no, you 268 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,920 Speaker 1: sneezed a little bit like what what does it even mean? 269 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 1: Like not like I feel like people are acting like 270 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: this test is like this weird new technology it is. 271 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: It isn't like right before the pandemic, Like a couple 272 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: of months before I had the flu and I had 273 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: exactly the same kind of test. They stuck a thing 274 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: up my nose. It was hella uncomfortable. Um it took 275 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: like two seconds. They stuck it on a little plastic thing. 276 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: I'm a bob and said, oh, looks like you have 277 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: the flu. Yeah, it's I don't know where this is 278 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: coming from. I think it's just she is not a 279 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: very charismatic person, and she's not someone who does well 280 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: under pressure. And right now she's back into a corner 281 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: and she's acting out and it's been kind of wild, 282 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: like I've seen she's she's also throwing other people around 283 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: her under the bus. Yeah, Like she says something about 284 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: Pedro Martinez, Like she says, the teachers aren't in charge 285 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: of this, Padre Martinez is in charge. She's the CEO. 286 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: And I'm like, okay, so you're being this is setting 287 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: him up to take the blame on this. Everything that 288 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 1: you tweeted about, like it was she was like, no, no, 289 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: it's actually the mayor's and sorry, it's it's actually the Uh, 290 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: it's the principles responsible to the principles were like no, yeah, 291 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: CPS is kind of interesting. Um, this can be really 292 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: good or really bad depending on what's school you're in, 293 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: But the principles really have a lot of autonomy over 294 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: their school. Um. I've now been in two schools where 295 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,640 Speaker 1: that's worked out great. My principal rocks. Um, if she 296 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: ever hears this, I hope she knows that I said that. 297 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 1: I think she's great. Um. Also, the principle I worked 298 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: at the beginning of school year was awful. Um so, 299 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: but when it comes to like district wide protocols, like 300 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: that's district wide and so CPS apparently had a meeting 301 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: with principles where um I heard some rumors about this too, 302 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: but I also saw that letter that they had posted. Um. 303 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: The principles are one really frustrated because CPS isn't communicating 304 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: stuff with them very effectively, and so parents will be 305 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 1: calling like do we have school tomorrow? And they don't know, 306 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: but CTU knows, and it's telling their members, so the 307 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 1: teachers all know the like more answers and the principles do, 308 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: which is obviously really embarrassing if you're supposed to be 309 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: in charge. Um. And then there they were told in 310 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: this meeting with CPS, school is gonna be closed on Friday. Okay, 311 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: school's closed on Friday. Great, sounds good. And then Lightfoot 312 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: gets on the day news and tells everybody that it 313 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,239 Speaker 1: will be done on a school by school basis, at 314 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: principle's discretion, depending on if they have staff. So now 315 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: all of these principles who had already told their students 316 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:36,679 Speaker 1: and families that, um, we're closing, look like they're the 317 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,639 Speaker 1: ones who closed it as opposed like, and that's it 318 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:42,879 Speaker 1: is rare for me to feel bad for a school 319 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: principle because that's my boss. You know, I don't like 320 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 1: my boss, but I feel bad for them right now. 321 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: Oh my god. Like you're just trying to like make 322 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: sure that people have the information they need in a 323 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,719 Speaker 1: timely manner, and this lady is up here making you 324 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: look like a monster. It's so unfair. Yeah, should we 325 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: talk about what's been happening and we run up to 326 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: the past sort of winter break, and then the stuff 327 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: that's happening now because it's very grim and bad. Yeah, 328 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: so a lot of schools have been having COVID cases. Um, 329 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,440 Speaker 1: there's I'm not really sure what's going on with cps 330 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 1: IS data. It kind of seems like they're not reporting 331 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: it very faithfully or accurately. Like if you look at 332 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: their tracker, they'll be cases and then suddenly they'll be gone. Um. 333 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:35,120 Speaker 1: We never really get a hard number ever. Like will 334 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 1: be like if you have a student in your class 335 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 1: who has been quarantined and we all know what it is, 336 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: but they don't say it. They'll be like, um, you know, uh, 337 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: Johnny will be out for the next x amount of 338 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: time due to health reasons. Please let him join via 339 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: Google Meet And they never do. That's the other annoying 340 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: thing is like the students, I think because they are 341 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: either close contact or they're sick, um you know, to them, 342 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: it's like a a break almost, like they're not going 343 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 1: to log in randomly. Like it's it's just with I 344 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: think with kids, like once it stops being consistent and 345 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: it's like back and forth all the time, it becomes 346 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: very difficult for them to stay motivated because they're out 347 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 1: of their routine. Like I I sometimes hate it when 348 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 1: people say this, but it is kind of true. Kids 349 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 1: kind of thrive on routine. Um. So at this point, 350 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,199 Speaker 1: now I have like a third of my class at 351 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: any given moment will just not be there and it 352 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 1: will be different third of the class every you know, 353 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,520 Speaker 1: it kind of like rolls through. So all of my 354 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: students are like different points in the curriculum. It's hard 355 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: to like know what to teach each day because I 356 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 1: don't know who needs what. It's hard to reach out 357 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 1: to the kids that are at home and make sure 358 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: that they get what they need because I'm so busy 359 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 1: trying to catch these kids up and move these kids 360 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 1: on and all that stuff, um, which I have seen 361 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: some research. I'll see if I can find it. Um 362 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: after we're done that like pointed out that like remote 363 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 1: learning isn't the worst thing that can happen. The worst 364 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: thing that can happen is just flipping back and forth 365 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,479 Speaker 1: all the time and having huge numbers of kids absent 366 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: from in person learning. Um. So we go on break 367 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 1: and obviously we have O macron like sweeping through the country, 368 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 1: and we all knew that there were going to be spikes, 369 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,479 Speaker 1: Like we knew that in Chicago had what was if 370 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 1: Illinois had some like astronomically high number of new cravit 371 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:42,639 Speaker 1: cases like breaking records all over the place. Um CPS 372 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: has had huge increases. Yesterday we had forty three four 373 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: cases in Illinois. It's that's a lot, like yeah, but yeah, 374 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,360 Speaker 1: so overbreak like the last like the Union and had 375 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: been trying has been trying forever to get CPS to 376 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: come in and agree to um a few things. So 377 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 1: one in February we had a um an agreement that 378 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: schools would flip to remote if they reached a certain threshold. 379 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: That agreement has expired and CPS has refused to come 380 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: to the bargaining table and negotiate a new one. They're 381 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: just like, no, we don't need it. We also have 382 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 1: been trying to get them to do the opt out 383 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: testing and a like surveillance testing programing in school so 384 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: we can kind of just have little bits of data 385 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: to understand like where are these cases. CPS doesn't want 386 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,959 Speaker 1: to do this. They don't want a threshold for flipping 387 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 1: to remote because then they would have to flip to remote, 388 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: and they don't want the surveillance testing because then they 389 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: would have to flip to remote, and they just don't 390 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 1: want to flip to remote. Um. So finally over break, 391 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: you know, it kind of came to a head, like 392 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 1: they were still refusing to negotiate, like, um, one of 393 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: the UH union delegates in my building said something about, um, 394 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: they've been meeting. They go to these meetings like you know, 395 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: like twice a week. They try to get these meetings 396 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: to happen, and the mayor never comes and the CEO 397 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: never comes, like they will either send lawyers or they 398 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: don't show up. And it's like, dude, sounded so tired 399 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: into moralized, but he said that. I felt bad for him. Um, 400 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: but yeah, So we voted that we were going to 401 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: go in on Monday and Tuesday meet with our safety committees, 402 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: get a feel for what's going on in school, and 403 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 1: then we are going to have a vote on Tuesday 404 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: night as to whether or not we will do a 405 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: remote work action on Wednesday. And I know a lot 406 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: of people have been like trying to make it sound 407 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: like this was very sudden, but it absolutely wasn't. Like 408 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: we had a vote about whether or not we were 409 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: interested in doing this, and then we had a vote 410 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: on whether we're still interested on having a vote, and 411 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: then we had the vote and delicates voted on if 412 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: they wanted to hold an official like should we do 413 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: an action vote? We did. Um, it was like seventy 414 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: voted yes. Um. There were some complaints that some people 415 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 1: didn't get their ballots, but they did wait till they 416 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: had enough yes votes to reach that to third majority 417 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 1: that we needed. So you know, c TU has every 418 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,880 Speaker 1: step of the way really been making sure, um, this 419 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,640 Speaker 1: is actually what we want. This isn't just like unilateral 420 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 1: things like Lorie keeps throwing that work unilateral around. It 421 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: wasn't unilateral. It was like at least two there's the 422 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: teachers in this district said I don't feel safe at school. 423 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: There's not enough staff in the building right now to 424 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: even teach half my kids. A third of my kids 425 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: are out. This isn't working. So yeah, so we voted 426 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: that we're going to stay home and work remotely and 427 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: then we got locked out. Yeah, which again like and 428 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: I want to almost refer gets on this for a second, 429 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,719 Speaker 1: because like even a lot of people who are sympathetic 430 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: to to to the teacher's unions on Twitter, you see 431 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: this a lot, they'll they'll be like the CTU went 432 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 1: on a strike, and it's like, no, they didn't like 433 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 1: teachers and teachers are not on strike. The teachers are 434 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: attempting to work from home and school district will not 435 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: let them. Yeah, it's it's every morning. I get up 436 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,880 Speaker 1: at six thirty, I make my coffee and I sit 437 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: down and I try to log in, and I know 438 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: I won't be able to, but I do it anyway. Um. Thankfully, 439 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: I had thought to download as much of my materials 440 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: as I could prior to this, only my personal device, 441 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,040 Speaker 1: so I am still able to create lessons. Lands been 442 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 1: making some very cool social study slides. I'm I'm so 443 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: sure that my students are gonna love lots of cool 444 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 1: assignments for them to do. To um. But yeah, like 445 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: this is a lockout and LORI keeps starting this word 446 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: like illegal work stoppage around. It's not a work stoppage. 447 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:01,199 Speaker 1: We are actively working. She has legally it is in 448 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: our contract that she can't lock us out and she 449 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: did so. Yeah. So yeah, everyone's doing each other and 450 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: saying illegal. But I know which side is right. Yeah, yeah, 451 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: you know. I I am not an enormal perspector of 452 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: the law, but like this is this is both is 453 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: one of the rare occasions where the thing that is 454 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: happening is both illegal and also just wrong. The reporting 455 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:28,679 Speaker 1: on this just has not gotten the actual fundamental thing 456 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: which is happening here, which is a lockout, and it's 457 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: enormously frustrating a lot of ways because you know, and 458 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: I'd say this, okay, so the like local media reporting 459 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: has been a lot better, but any like any national 460 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: coverage has just I've seen it's just been like, yeah, 461 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 1: it's gonna be it. For part one of this interview, 462 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: come back tomorrow for part two, when we will talk 463 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: more about what's actually going on inside the schools and 464 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,159 Speaker 1: you know, generally do the media's job for them, because 465 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: lord knows, they're not actually getting it right. You can 466 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,120 Speaker 1: find us that Happened here pod on Twitter and Instagram 467 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: as usual, or you cannot find us. In fact, I 468 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: encourage you not to find us, because good Lord, the 469 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: arrand is bad. Goodbye, hello, and welcome to our show. 470 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 1: I'm Zoe de Chanelle and I'm so excited to be 471 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 1: joined by my friends and cast mates Hannah Simone and 472 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: Lamar and Morris to recap our hit television series New Girl. 473 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: Join us every Monday on the Welcome to Our Show podcast, 474 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 1: where we'll share behind the scenes stories of your favorite 475 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: New Girl episodes, reveal the truth behind the legendary game 476 00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 1: True American, and discuss how this show got made with 477 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: the writer's, guest stars, and directors who made the show 478 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: so special. Fans have been begging us to do a 479 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: New Girl recap for years, and we finally made a 480 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: podcast where we answer all your burning questions like is 481 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: there really a bear in every episode of New Girl. 482 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: Plus each week you'll hear hilarious stories like this at 483 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:58,879 Speaker 1: the end when he says you got some schmid on 484 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: your face. I feel like I pitched that job. I 485 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: believe that I feel like I did. I'm not on 486 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: a thousand percent. I want to say that was I 487 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,000 Speaker 1: tossed that one out. Listen to the Welcome to Our 488 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 1: Show podcast on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 489 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Colleen with Join 490 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,199 Speaker 1: me the host of Eating Wall Broke podcast while I 491 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: eat a meal created by self made entrepreneurs, influencers, and 492 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: celebrities over a meal they once eight when they were broke. 493 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 1: Today I have the lovely aj Crimson, the official Princess 494 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 1: of comfin Asia Kidding, and Asia, this is the professor. 495 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: We're here on Eating Will Broke, and today I'm gonna 496 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: break down my meal that got me through a time 497 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: when I was broken. Listen to Eating Wall Broke on 498 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, on Apple podcast or wherever 499 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Executive producer Paris Hilton brings back 500 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: the hit podcast How Men Think. And that's good news 501 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: for anyone that is confused by men, which is basically everyone. 502 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: Get an inside look at what goes on in the 503 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: mind of men from the men themselves. It's real talk, 504 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: straight from the source. How Men Think podcast is exactly 505 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: what we need to figure them out. It's going to 506 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: be fun and formative and probably a bit scary at 507 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: times because we're literally going inside the minds of men. 508 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,600 Speaker 1: As much as we like to think all men are 509 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: the same, they're actually very different. Each week, a celebrity 510 00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: guest host provides honest advice in his area of expertise. 511 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: When I agreed to do this reboot, I had a 512 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: few conditions. No sugarcoating, no mind games, and absolutely no 513 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: man splaining. Men are hard enough to understand without the 514 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: mind games. Listen to How Men Think on the I 515 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. 516 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to It Could Happen Here a podcast about things 517 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: going badly and falling apart. And today we are back 518 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: with part two for interview with lou See about how 519 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: the Chicago Public school system is falling apart under the 520 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: relentless assault of cruelty and malice and incompetence by the 521 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: Chicago Public Schools and by the Mayor, LORDE. Lightfoot. Enjoy 522 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: There's everything I want to talk about a bit, which 523 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 1: is when you've been back, when you've been sort of 524 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: teaching in in these really like sort of like what 525 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: what does it actually like to teach in these customs? 526 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: And like, you know, how how safe actually is it? So? 527 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: I mean I've been in a lot of different environments. 528 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,880 Speaker 1: When I was teaching middle schoolers, I did not feel 529 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: super COVID safe. Um they are. I don't know if 530 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: people know this about middle school age kids. They love 531 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: to touch each other, especially boys. They love to like wrestle. 532 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 1: There was putting each other in headlocks. I am constantly 533 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: having to just be like six feet six ft or 534 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: three ft or whatever. CDC has said. We are now. Um, 535 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: they don't put their masks on. They put their masks 536 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: in their mouths all the time, like in their mouths. Um. 537 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: Oh no, there's they're constantly finding like weird little excuses 538 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: to have their mask off. Like they'll just sit there 539 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: with like like they're allowed to have water bottles because 540 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: they can't use the water huntins. They'll just sit there 541 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: with like a straw in their mouth for like extended 542 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: amounts of time. And I'm like, I need you to 543 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: put your mask up, take quicksips and put your mask up. 544 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: And they're like I'm drinking, like I'm going to be 545 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: drinking at the end of this day, but like, I know, 546 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: take a quick sip, put your mask back up. It's 547 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: really really important for your safety. Um. And then I 548 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: have other kids who are absolutely straight up like terrified 549 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: of this because like they've lost parents, theyve lost grandparents. Um, 550 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: it's it's really scary. UM. At the high school level, 551 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 1: it's been a little better. High school kids are a 552 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: little more rational. UM, but I still have a few 553 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 1: who are just like their masks are down around their 554 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: chins all the time, we're under their nose and I'm 555 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: I'll like several times of class fear, Like, okay, time 556 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,479 Speaker 1: for everybody to do a mask check. Make sure your 557 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 1: mask is covering your nose, your mouth, your chin. Um, 558 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 1: I'll remind them like I have a spouse at home 559 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: who has an underlying condition and like, please don't have 560 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 1: me bring home a deadly disease to him. That would 561 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: really not be great. Um, most of them are pretty good, 562 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: but still they're getting sick. Like I think we had 563 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: like forty kids out of my building one Monday, and 564 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 1: like twenty eight staff members or something like that. We're 565 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: out and we had one sub which is the other 566 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: That's the other issue is this isn't really a question of, um, 567 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: if we should go remote. It's a question of when 568 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: will we be forced to go remote. And we can 569 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: either do that now before everybody has gotten sick and 570 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: wait for this to subside and get some better mitigation 571 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: strategies in place, or we can do it after everybody 572 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: is sick, and then we're going to be scrambling to 573 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: figure it out and also be sick at the same time. 574 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: I don't really see how that makes any sense. Yeah, 575 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: that's the part of this, And I've just like I 576 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: just like I don't get it, Like I just like fundamentally, 577 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 1: there's there's like a bench break where it's like I 578 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: don't understand why like Lightfoot and CPS are so insistance 579 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,320 Speaker 1: about not going remote, Like I get that, like, yeah, 580 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 1: it's it's hard on kids, but it's like it's it's 581 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: you know, it is the years two Like no matter 582 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: what you do, it's it's hard on the kids, and 583 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, I also I wonder how much of 584 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: it is the remote learning that's hard on them, and 585 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: how much of it is just the um everything around 586 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: them is crashing and following and burning around their ears 587 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,479 Speaker 1: because um, the messaging that they've been getting is that 588 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: they don't matter, They're not important, their safety isn't important, 589 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: their families aren't important, and um, some of them like 590 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: want to be remote. A lot of them, a lot 591 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: of their parents want them to be remote. They're like, 592 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: you know, it's not as good, but at least I 593 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: feel safe. Some of them even thrived in remote like 594 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: actually did pretty well. And I really wish that it 595 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: was just an option for those students who actually did 596 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: well with it, that they could just like if we 597 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 1: even ended up with like a third of our students 598 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 1: choosing it, it would mitigate this so much because that's 599 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: a third of the people. Not they're to spread around. 600 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: Um So how how big? How big your class sizes are? Um? 601 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: Right now the building I'm in now, I have like 602 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 1: thirty in some my It was kind of similar at 603 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: the last building, Like they're in that range. I have 604 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: like always have like one or two that are like 605 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: the twenty or below that are usually um special education 606 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 1: like inclusion classes where I have co teacher. Um. But yeah, 607 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: it's you know, some of them are pretty crowded, and 608 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:53,239 Speaker 1: it really varies by school. Like there's definitely schools that 609 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 1: have over thirty kids in a room, um and don't 610 00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: have the staff because it's just that's the other thing 611 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:02,879 Speaker 1: is they keep talking about. You know, I keep seeing 612 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: people be like fire all the teachers, and I'm like, 613 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,600 Speaker 1: good luck, Like, yes, is chronically understaffed. What are you 614 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: going to do? Yeah? I think again, like this job 615 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: is really hard, Like it's being a teacher. Yeah, it's hard. 616 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: It's exhausting, and it's very very rewarding. Like when it's good, 617 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: it's great. When it's bad it is miserable. Um. So yeah, 618 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: and like what it looks like and I mean that's 619 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: you know, it depends, it really depends on what school 620 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: you're in. Um I think everybody can agree that it 621 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: is difficult right now. Um So we we have like 622 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: air purifiers going and masks on, and I cannot understand 623 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: what my kids are saying a lot of the time, 624 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: like I do not know, and they speak so quietly 625 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,279 Speaker 1: like I need you to shout it, say it like 626 00:35:56,320 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 1: you mean whatever it is. So you know, that's been 627 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:05,879 Speaker 1: challenging and frustrating and exhausting. But um the worst thing 628 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 1: ever is finding out that one of my students is sick. 629 00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: Like I hate when they're I hate it when they hurt. 630 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: Like whenever that one of them is hurting, I feel bad. 631 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: And knowing that their home sick is it's it's really 632 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,800 Speaker 1: upsetting and just it's you know, it's distressing for teachers 633 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: to know that their kids are struggling in a way 634 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,359 Speaker 1: like that. Um So that's you know, we want them 635 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,239 Speaker 1: to be safe, you know, like these kids, it's like 636 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,279 Speaker 1: and this is this is true of the staff too. 637 00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: When you're when you're getting sick, it's like, yeah, like 638 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: some of these people will be okay, but enormous numbers 639 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 1: of people are like so, man, these people are gonna die. 640 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 1: So these people, a lot of these people are going 641 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,479 Speaker 1: to get disabled. Um yeah, I mean the long term 642 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,839 Speaker 1: long terfects been really bad. And you know, one off, 643 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: if people remember we we did an episode with when 644 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: Our Friends use a nurse and like, yeah, like he 645 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: he had long COVID. His long COVID was like he 646 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 1: he couldn't do more than like like getting out of 647 00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: bed or like like walking across the room, which is 648 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: to be battle day. Because if there there's you know, 649 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,200 Speaker 1: there there's an enormous range of sort of like of 650 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 1: of long COVID side effects and yeah, it's like it's 651 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: it's it's like CPS is just childe of schools. It's 652 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:20,319 Speaker 1: just like they're getting people killed. Yeah, it's and it's 653 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,319 Speaker 1: you know, that's like the question like they keep talking 654 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 1: about percentages and I'm like, these are human beings. Every 655 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,360 Speaker 1: one of the numbers is a human. So when you 656 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 1: say like only you know, point whatever percent are going 657 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: to be long term affected, like, Okay, those are people. 658 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,880 Speaker 1: Can we stop like dehumanizing them with these las like 659 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: data points and um as for like the issue with 660 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 1: like how like kids are less affected by or whatever 661 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 1: like the fact is like the more we allow this 662 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,479 Speaker 1: to spread around, the more variants we're going to see. 663 00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,879 Speaker 1: And we don't know that the next variant isn't going 664 00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:03,280 Speaker 1: to be the one that is really significantly harmful to children. 665 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: And we are basically turning our schools into these peatree 666 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: dishes where this thing can mutate and become stronger. And 667 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 1: now we have vaccinated people who are in that mix, 668 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 1: and it's becoming resistant to the vaccine. So you know, 669 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 1: I'm a social stade teacher, not a science teacher, but 670 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: this seems like a bad move to me. Yeah, yeah, 671 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 1: it's I don't know, it's it's just sort of heartbreaking 672 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,720 Speaker 1: a lot of ways. I mean, it's just like they've 673 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: just decided that, you know. And again like I don't 674 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: I don't know why Lightfoot's doing this. Like maybe it's 675 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: just like she wants to share up her base thing 676 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 1: because she's trying to build a base among like the 677 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 1: just like rich, weirddoor ciders or something. But like it's 678 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,319 Speaker 1: she's a small business person. That's always when people are 679 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,360 Speaker 1: the small business owners who don't want to close schools 680 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:59,360 Speaker 1: because then you know, their workers won't come in. And 681 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:03,399 Speaker 1: you know, I want to feel sorry for them, but 682 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,759 Speaker 1: I know, I don't know, Like I was like fuck you, 683 00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 1: because there's also a lot of small business owners who 684 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 1: have been very supportive of us. We had uh there's 685 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,400 Speaker 1: like a taco place offering free burritos to us, Like 686 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 1: I really appreciate that. Like there's a community who understand that, 687 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,879 Speaker 1: like the lives of our children are so much more 688 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 1: important than you missing two weeks of profit, Like you 689 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: will figure that out. And if you want to bail 690 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 1: out businesses, um, we can figure that out. But right now. 691 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:37,719 Speaker 1: And also, like is is saying like we have we 692 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 1: aren't we refused to do anything that might be inconvenient 693 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: for business owners, Like what is that? Yeah, and it's 694 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,439 Speaker 1: like it's like yeah, so you know. And also yeah, 695 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,239 Speaker 1: but like business owners did get bailed out, like they 696 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,320 Speaker 1: got they got they got zero present loans. Most of 697 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: those loans got written off. And meanwhile, yeah, it's like, well, okay, 698 00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:56,719 Speaker 1: what did life to do with the COVID money? She 699 00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: she gave it to the cops. And oh, hey, guess 700 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,359 Speaker 1: guess who's also just a rapperants better of COVID. Oh 701 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:07,160 Speaker 1: yeah it's the cops. Yeah, resisted vaccines, the most the cops. 702 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: I mean actually there there there there is one funny 703 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,759 Speaker 1: thing which I'm actually very excited about, which is that 704 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,920 Speaker 1: the cops are doing they're having their first so they 705 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,240 Speaker 1: have a new class graduating. But for the police academies, 706 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 1: which is really bad, and there's a whole well, one 707 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 1: of one of the like Lightfoot's things was that there 708 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,120 Speaker 1: there was a huge campaign against building more police academies 709 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,800 Speaker 1: because you know, everyone hates child police apartment. They're awful. 710 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,600 Speaker 1: And if you have a hundred billion dollars for a 711 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: new police academy, why or a hundred million or whatever 712 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 1: it was, why can't you put some better ventilation in 713 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,560 Speaker 1: the schools? Yeah, well it's gonna yeah, because because because 714 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:45,160 Speaker 1: like the CPD are like basically feudal lords. They have nights, 715 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: they go out, they can shoot you, like they rob you. 716 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: They just like any any any large number of like 717 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 1: black kids on the streets, Like if you just have 718 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,839 Speaker 1: like fifteen kids walking around, like eight quad cars will 719 00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 1: show up. And you know that there was Lightfoot was 720 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 1: like not her like one of her campaignings big of anything. 721 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 1: It's like no, no no, we're gonna make sure we build 722 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: these academies. And but so they're they're having their first 723 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:10,479 Speaker 1: like rounded that they've been having trouble recruiting because good. Yeah, 724 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 1: and and they're they're about to have their first police 725 00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,880 Speaker 1: Academy exam and it's gonna be in person, and I 726 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:17,920 Speaker 1: am this is the only one are the few is 727 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: this jaire Bosonaro where it's like I am rooting for 728 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 1: the virus here, like please God save us from these cops. 729 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,680 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's but they're just bring at home 730 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 1: and spread it around. Yeah, yeah, that's a sad thing. 731 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 1: It's it's just it's grotesque. And yeah, it's been this 732 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,279 Speaker 1: thing where I'm like watching, like the school system is 733 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,239 Speaker 1: just throwing their hands up and saying, we don't care. 734 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,960 Speaker 1: We're done. The health system, the health care system is 735 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:52,680 Speaker 1: like crashing and burning all around us. Nurses are quitting, 736 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 1: hospitals are like we don't have room for more patients, 737 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,879 Speaker 1: Like did you have a cancer treatment schedules? Sorry? Did 738 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,320 Speaker 1: you have a surgery scheduled? Sorry? I just saw somebody 739 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:07,359 Speaker 1: on Twitter saying she um has a brain tumor and 740 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,279 Speaker 1: she's supposed to have a surgery for it and she 741 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,160 Speaker 1: can't now because of COVID. Because they have no beds. 742 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: There aren't any, And you're telling me that the right 743 00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 1: move right now is to keep the schools open, which 744 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: has always been in every every pandemic that we've ever had. 745 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,960 Speaker 1: Schools and hospitals and prisons are like the place where 746 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,640 Speaker 1: the whatever diseases spreads. And I know we've been claiming 747 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,439 Speaker 1: that like there's not been spread in schools, but we've 748 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:37,520 Speaker 1: now seen the data that there, in fact is a 749 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,799 Speaker 1: huge amount. Which I've been like screaming about this since 750 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,759 Speaker 1: we started that their contact racing models are they're absurd. 751 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:50,759 Speaker 1: There are like kaka esk Like basically, um so, we 752 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,759 Speaker 1: start from the assumption that everybody is six ft apart 753 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:59,279 Speaker 1: and wearing their mask at all times, which it's not. 754 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 1: It's not even it's not even physically possible in a 755 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,759 Speaker 1: lot of classrooms for that to be happening. And then too, 756 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,799 Speaker 1: we start with the assumption that those things work, and 757 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,280 Speaker 1: so you'll get a call from a contact tracer that's like, hey, 758 00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:18,839 Speaker 1: um on, you know, like last Tuesday, Tuesday of last week, 759 00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 1: were you within six ft of any of your eighth 760 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 1: graders for more than fifteen minutes? Funck? If I know 761 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 1: Tuesday of last week was I near an eighth grader 762 00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,640 Speaker 1: for fifteen minutes. I don't know. I have no idea 763 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 1: even if, like even if I did know, what difference 764 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,319 Speaker 1: does it make. It is an aerosolized virus. It is 765 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,160 Speaker 1: in the air, and the more you sit in classrooms, 766 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,880 Speaker 1: the more it accumulates. Like we have seen like studies 767 00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,480 Speaker 1: about um this, We've seen studies about how CEO two 768 00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,399 Speaker 1: accumulates in the air when there's crowds. We know that 769 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,759 Speaker 1: stuff accumulates like that in classrooms, very very quickly. And 770 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,680 Speaker 1: you're gonna tell me that as long as I wasn't 771 00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 1: within fifteen or within six feet for more than fifteen 772 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:06,640 Speaker 1: continuous minutes, not even like um, not even fifteen minutes 773 00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,719 Speaker 1: like added up throughout the day, just fifteen minutes continuously, 774 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,400 Speaker 1: I'm not going to get a virus. Are you shipping me? 775 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,520 Speaker 1: Like that makes no sense? And so then if and 776 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,480 Speaker 1: if and if you're answer to those questions are no, 777 00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,760 Speaker 1: because whatever you were following the rules, then they're like, Okay, 778 00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,759 Speaker 1: you got COVID somewhere else, it wasn't at school. Yeah, 779 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,600 Speaker 1: no it doesn't. Yeah, it's nonsense. It's like I go 780 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:30,759 Speaker 1: to work and I go home. I don't do anything else, 781 00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:33,240 Speaker 1: so I don't know where else is coming from, like yeah, 782 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:35,839 Speaker 1: like and I also just want to do a brief 783 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,440 Speaker 1: digression about like okay, so like like I like I 784 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,080 Speaker 1: went to like a like a pretty good like like 785 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,960 Speaker 1: a pretty well like a very well funded like a 786 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:48,280 Speaker 1: Charicago area school. It's like, okay, those places, those places 787 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 1: ventilation sucks. Like again, like again, I went to a 788 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,160 Speaker 1: very well funded school. Like we had a we had 789 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:58,000 Speaker 1: drowned dead rats falling out of the ceiling like it was. 790 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 1: It was incredibly my my, my great high school memories 791 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,440 Speaker 1: with my principle just like running full tilt pushing a 792 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:12,840 Speaker 1: trash can because dead drop. See my god, my school 793 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 1: was wild. We had how bad it was like a 794 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,279 Speaker 1: kind of a chemistry teacher let a kid set off 795 00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,200 Speaker 1: a smoke bomb like that they'd made like in a classroom, 796 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,960 Speaker 1: but it didn't work, so it just like actually blew up. 797 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,920 Speaker 1: It was a time. But like like this croc based learning, Okay, 798 00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,919 Speaker 1: you got to light the school on fire. But like 799 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,200 Speaker 1: like this is a this is like yeah, like these 800 00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:39,120 Speaker 1: schools are not like they're not yea. I worked in 801 00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:40,960 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the year was a hundred years old. 802 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,520 Speaker 1: It was built in nineteen twenty and there was always 803 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,720 Speaker 1: this like sewage smell around the bathroom because the pipes 804 00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,840 Speaker 1: were messed up. It was weird like and you couldn't 805 00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,240 Speaker 1: fix it. I think it was I was the second 806 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,680 Speaker 1: or third time by building lived on fire. Like we 807 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:56,000 Speaker 1: there was a there was a whole thing in the 808 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,759 Speaker 1: building that was made of asbestos and they just had 809 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:00,919 Speaker 1: left it because it was like, oh, isn't exposed. Yeah, 810 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:05,000 Speaker 1: still have over Like I get like I went to 811 00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,319 Speaker 1: like a good, well funded one of these schools, Like 812 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,359 Speaker 1: it's I think there's there's like there's there's these two 813 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,439 Speaker 1: there's two things. I think it is. Interestingly, there's when 814 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,320 Speaker 1: you like talk to like the people who want the 815 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,319 Speaker 1: schools to open back up, right, they'll they're also talking 816 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,200 Speaker 1: about like oh no, it's fine. Everyone wears masks, everyone's vaccinated, 817 00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,520 Speaker 1: everyone succeeds. Like no, no, they're not like this. This 818 00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:28,880 Speaker 1: is how it works in this like imaginary play world 819 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 1: you've created. Have you ever met a child? Like have 820 00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:36,120 Speaker 1: you met your own children? Like oh and that's the 821 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:37,799 Speaker 1: best is like, well, I've been having my kids wear 822 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,120 Speaker 1: a mask like you have your full of ship. Okay, 823 00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:44,120 Speaker 1: because I hold that kid to put their masks on 824 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,879 Speaker 1: like fifteen times yesterday and I love them beautiful face. 825 00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:50,360 Speaker 1: I hope they get to show it off someday, but 826 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:55,480 Speaker 1: right now, cooped up, please, I'm begging you. And I'm like, 827 00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,560 Speaker 1: I'm not like that teacher who's really authoritarian, Like I've 828 00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,480 Speaker 1: never been good at like writing kids up and getting 829 00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 1: on them for stuff because it's just like, I don't know, 830 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,799 Speaker 1: I hate doing that. I hate being that person. So 831 00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,000 Speaker 1: it's been like, really, it's like a struggle. It's like 832 00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,960 Speaker 1: am I going to be the person who nags them 833 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,319 Speaker 1: every five seconds? Or am I gonna be um the 834 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,560 Speaker 1: teacher that they like and want to learn from? Like 835 00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:25,640 Speaker 1: you know, this isn't sustainable. So but you're asking like 836 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,600 Speaker 1: the attitudes of people who want to open schools back up, 837 00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:33,239 Speaker 1: and I it's it's hard because I have talked to 838 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,120 Speaker 1: parents who are worried, but they are also very upset 839 00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:42,479 Speaker 1: because they see that their kids are struggling. And I 840 00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:44,320 Speaker 1: really do feel for them on that, like I really 841 00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:46,560 Speaker 1: really do. It is hard to see a kid struggle, 842 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,960 Speaker 1: but it is harder, I think to see a kid sick. 843 00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:55,279 Speaker 1: That is really hard, and it's just this, like there 844 00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:59,360 Speaker 1: are ways that we can overcome the difficulties of remote learning, 845 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,080 Speaker 1: Like we we can find ways to give them the 846 00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:07,200 Speaker 1: emotional support, Um, we can find better socializing outlets. But 847 00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:12,279 Speaker 1: I don't know how we fix like you've become very 848 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,920 Speaker 1: ill and your body isn't going to recover in the 849 00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:17,719 Speaker 1: way that you thought it would, Like, I don't I 850 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:21,040 Speaker 1: can't fix that. So that's something I've heard from other 851 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,640 Speaker 1: teachers that like the preparagromout learning stuff like is harder 852 00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:28,680 Speaker 1: and takes more work than Yeah, it does. It's it's 853 00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,560 Speaker 1: really rough. I don't like doing it. I want to 854 00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,560 Speaker 1: be in the classroom, but yeah, and I just I 855 00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,960 Speaker 1: just want to like once again, yell at all of 856 00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,160 Speaker 1: the people who are like the teachers are lazy and 857 00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:43,319 Speaker 1: it's like no, people like they're like, yeah, like you're 858 00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:48,040 Speaker 1: you are advocating to do more work because that's that's 859 00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,640 Speaker 1: the thing that will keep the kids safe, and it's yeah. 860 00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,759 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people don't understand like the 861 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:57,239 Speaker 1: behind the scenes how the sausage gets made of a classroom. 862 00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,239 Speaker 1: But I think a lot of people have this idea 863 00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: that like we are given curriculum and plans and materials 864 00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:07,200 Speaker 1: pre made, and sometimes that's true. It depends on your subject. 865 00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,759 Speaker 1: Mine is social size is not a subject where that 866 00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,120 Speaker 1: happens very much, which is part of why I like 867 00:49:12,239 --> 00:49:16,520 Speaker 1: it because I like to be creative. Um. So like 868 00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:20,759 Speaker 1: my week looks like, UM, there are a lot of 869 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:25,040 Speaker 1: hours after school where I am sitting down, I'm looking 870 00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,000 Speaker 1: at the standards that I need to teach, the topics 871 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,960 Speaker 1: that I need to teach, and I'm researching it and 872 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,160 Speaker 1: learning it and finding a way to teach that to 873 00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:38,520 Speaker 1: kids who don't have the same like baseline knowledge that 874 00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:42,520 Speaker 1: I have. UM. And then I'm creating like an activity 875 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:47,200 Speaker 1: for them. I'm creating, um, you're I'm finding like material 876 00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:50,320 Speaker 1: sources and like videos and stuff that they can watch 877 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,240 Speaker 1: that are going to help them, or things to read. 878 00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,640 Speaker 1: I'm modifying those things for the kids who have um, 879 00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,960 Speaker 1: you know, learning differences. I'm translating some of those things 880 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:01,920 Speaker 1: in the Spanish for kids who don't really read very 881 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,319 Speaker 1: well in English yet. So, like that's a ton of 882 00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,920 Speaker 1: work on its own. And then when we switch to remote, 883 00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:08,120 Speaker 1: we have to figure out how to do all of 884 00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:12,080 Speaker 1: that on Google Classroom, where now it has to all 885 00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:16,680 Speaker 1: be typed like or you know, like how do I figure, like, 886 00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:20,719 Speaker 1: how do I do a group project online? How do 887 00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,279 Speaker 1: I let them do something creative that isn't just sitting 888 00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:28,799 Speaker 1: here answering questions on a worksheet. That's hard and we've 889 00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:30,600 Speaker 1: been really good at it, and I've found all kinds 890 00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,160 Speaker 1: of really cool tools to do that with. But it's 891 00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,160 Speaker 1: so much work. And it's work that I'm willing to 892 00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:40,000 Speaker 1: do because I care about my job. I enjoy my work. 893 00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,560 Speaker 1: I love my students, but um, you know, and I 894 00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:45,000 Speaker 1: want them to be safe. But like, you know, it 895 00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,239 Speaker 1: is a ton of work. I'm not just sitting here 896 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:51,200 Speaker 1: eating bond bonds all day or drinking cocktails. Yeah, And 897 00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,440 Speaker 1: I think there's there's like a larger sort of like 898 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,759 Speaker 1: like Americans have this like the sexist sort of like 899 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:02,600 Speaker 1: hatred of like in disrespect to people who do both 900 00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:07,400 Speaker 1: care work and a lot of creative work both. And 901 00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,840 Speaker 1: then simultaneously there's this sort of like you know, the 902 00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:12,960 Speaker 1: the there's there's there's a resentment to people who get 903 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:16,719 Speaker 1: to actually do something that helps people. And you know, 904 00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,840 Speaker 1: I think right now we're seeing just the most toxic 905 00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:23,239 Speaker 1: fusion of that, which is that like, yeah, I know, 906 00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,719 Speaker 1: like these like you know and instead of like you know, 907 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,319 Speaker 1: recognizing the enormous amount of work that that's going into 908 00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,640 Speaker 1: all like that's going into into teaching, like the amount 909 00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,200 Speaker 1: of sort of like the care and love that's going 910 00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:36,920 Speaker 1: into the creativity it's going into it. And just like 911 00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,799 Speaker 1: the people people's willing to, like you're willing list to 912 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,600 Speaker 1: make like enormous sacrifices to try to keep these kids safe, 913 00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:46,600 Speaker 1: they're just like no, Like the teachers are lazy, they 914 00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,680 Speaker 1: don't want to work, they're going on strike, like and 915 00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:51,719 Speaker 1: it's you know, and and and it's like they're doing 916 00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:54,080 Speaker 1: this and it's like yeah, like you you're like they're 917 00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:58,560 Speaker 1: killing their own kids. It's just like it's it's this 918 00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,000 Speaker 1: weird fusion of like we we I've had. The spaces 919 00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:07,960 Speaker 1: is like a combination of like feminized care labor, emotional labor, 920 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:18,280 Speaker 1: and um that's sort of like like intelligence, yeah, like professional, um, 921 00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:22,799 Speaker 1: white collar intellectual kind of thing. And then also we're 922 00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:27,799 Speaker 1: teaching a um more introductory level of our subjects, so 923 00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,200 Speaker 1: we're seen as like discount intellectuals who are also women 924 00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:34,680 Speaker 1: who do care work. So it's it's very frustrating, and 925 00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,200 Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of people understand the amount 926 00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:41,239 Speaker 1: of UM skill and expertise it takes to be a 927 00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:43,319 Speaker 1: teacher and be effective at it. Like, it's not just 928 00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:46,000 Speaker 1: I need to know social studies to the level that 929 00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,080 Speaker 1: a twelfth grader would know it. It's I need to 930 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,960 Speaker 1: know social studies beyond that level and know how to 931 00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:54,080 Speaker 1: communicate it to a high school student. And also I 932 00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:57,160 Speaker 1: need to know a lot of stuff about like child development. 933 00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:01,160 Speaker 1: It's it's really it's something and um, I you know, 934 00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:03,600 Speaker 1: I find that to be fun and challenging, but I 935 00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:08,799 Speaker 1: wish it was respected and you know, and then you're 936 00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,800 Speaker 1: talking about like people are sacrificing their own kids. I 937 00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,040 Speaker 1: want to point out a lot like I think there's 938 00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,560 Speaker 1: a racial component to this. UM. The people who are 939 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:23,160 Speaker 1: in wealthier schools and who are mostly white know that 940 00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:25,239 Speaker 1: their kids are gonna be fine, Like they are in 941 00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,520 Speaker 1: schools that actually do have the resources to distance, that 942 00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:32,959 Speaker 1: have air filters, that have good ventilation. Um, they're vaccinated, 943 00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,320 Speaker 1: their kids are probably going to be fine. The kids 944 00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:40,560 Speaker 1: that aren't going to be fine are lowing UM students 945 00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:43,359 Speaker 1: of color. And it has always been this way. It's 946 00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,960 Speaker 1: always been this way with schools, like when schools were desegregated, 947 00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:51,880 Speaker 1: we started with private school voutuers, and we started with 948 00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:56,840 Speaker 1: all of these like uh, state testing requirements and withholding 949 00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,960 Speaker 1: funding from schools that don't meet those you know, testing 950 00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:04,280 Speaker 1: nerds and all of these like um, this extra oversight 951 00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:08,839 Speaker 1: owned teachers like that stuff all comes back to white 952 00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:11,640 Speaker 1: people don't want to have to worry about black people's kids. 953 00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,879 Speaker 1: That's it. And you know they will move their kids 954 00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:17,760 Speaker 1: out to the north side or the suburbs or whatever. 955 00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:21,040 Speaker 1: Notice that all of those suburbs schools have flipped. Noticed 956 00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:23,120 Speaker 1: that Lory Lightfoot's kids are in a charter school that 957 00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:27,280 Speaker 1: is not remote well and more than Lightfoot Lightfoot, Lightfoot 958 00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:31,640 Speaker 1: won't like Lightfoot will not put herself in a room 959 00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:34,480 Speaker 1: with the with the same number of people like to 960 00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,439 Speaker 1: go to every day. She won't. She was telling people 961 00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:38,360 Speaker 1: at the press conferences they had to wear their masks, 962 00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:40,479 Speaker 1: and then she wasn't wearing hers, which was very charnge 963 00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:44,000 Speaker 1: to me. It's like that's what they like when when 964 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:45,839 Speaker 1: you when you get to the politician level, they know 965 00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:49,120 Speaker 1: it's dangerous, Like they know it. They they you can 966 00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:52,600 Speaker 1: tell about what they do right now, Yeah, like they 967 00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:54,800 Speaker 1: won't do it, but like no, no, they're they're perfectly 968 00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:57,040 Speaker 1: willing to just send to send you off the die, 969 00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:01,000 Speaker 1: to send all these kids off to die, and it's just, yeah, 970 00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:04,120 Speaker 1: sometimes I feel I get kind of dooomer, and I 971 00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:08,040 Speaker 1: wonder if, like, if that's not the plan, Like is 972 00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,600 Speaker 1: it that? I mean, I don't really believe that. I 973 00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:14,240 Speaker 1: think what it really is is this just like malicious neglect. 974 00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:19,359 Speaker 1: Like if you're somebody who's a policymaker and someone comes 975 00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:21,000 Speaker 1: to you and it's like, I need you to care 976 00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:24,600 Speaker 1: about this population here that doesn't have a lot of 977 00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:29,000 Speaker 1: money and needs a lot of things, and you, the policymaker, 978 00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:30,719 Speaker 1: are going to be like, oh, that sounds like so 979 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:34,000 Speaker 1: much work, And then somebody else is going to come 980 00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:36,399 Speaker 1: to you and be like I need these things over here, 981 00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:37,960 Speaker 1: and I do have a lot of money, and I 982 00:55:38,040 --> 00:55:39,560 Speaker 1: do have a lot of influence, and I'm gonna make 983 00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:41,440 Speaker 1: your life difficult if you don't do what I want. 984 00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:44,120 Speaker 1: They're gonna do with that other side once. And what 985 00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:46,400 Speaker 1: the other side once right now is for kids to 986 00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:48,600 Speaker 1: get back into school so they can have free daycares, 987 00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:51,160 Speaker 1: parents can go to work, and that's and that's it. 988 00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:53,959 Speaker 1: And teachers are standing here being like I didn't get 989 00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:57,239 Speaker 1: a master's degree and do you know countless hours of 990 00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:01,520 Speaker 1: professional development to be a babysitter, you know, and no, 991 00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:03,759 Speaker 1: not to knock babysitters. I was in nanny for a 992 00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:08,120 Speaker 1: long time. That is hard work. But um, I didn't 993 00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:09,960 Speaker 1: get a master's degree to be a babysitter. I got 994 00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:12,680 Speaker 1: a master's degree to be a teacher. And I'm in 995 00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:15,680 Speaker 1: an environment right now where I can't really teach effectively 996 00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:18,839 Speaker 1: and all I'm doing is babysitting. They want to wear 997 00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,040 Speaker 1: house kids. That is what we're doing with the schools. 998 00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,600 Speaker 1: That's why they want them open. And it's you know, 999 00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:27,239 Speaker 1: it's it's hard not to feel like they just started 1000 00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,239 Speaker 1: doing it because they hate us, even though I know 1001 00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:32,600 Speaker 1: it's not. It's just it does feel that way. I 1002 00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,800 Speaker 1: will like, I will say that, like you're so if 1003 00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:40,120 Speaker 1: you become elected as the mayor of Chicago, like your 1004 00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:43,359 Speaker 1: job is to break the teachers union, Like that's that's like, 1005 00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:45,840 Speaker 1: that's that's that's that's like the role you're auditioning for. 1006 00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:47,680 Speaker 1: And they have been they have been trying to do 1007 00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:50,680 Speaker 1: this for literally my entire lifetime. They've been trying to 1008 00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:53,840 Speaker 1: do this, like since before I was born, Like that's 1009 00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:57,760 Speaker 1: and honestly, like, wouldn't surprise me if this was another 1010 00:56:57,760 --> 00:56:59,759 Speaker 1: part of this was just them once again trying to 1011 00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:02,319 Speaker 1: break teachers union. Oh absolutely, like and if and not 1012 00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,759 Speaker 1: even just that, like yeah, you know, like not just 1013 00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:06,400 Speaker 1: on the sort of political level, like on the incredible 1014 00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:09,480 Speaker 1: cynical level of we'll just kill them. Well, it's it's 1015 00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,720 Speaker 1: a labor thing. Like, it's not just a Chicago teachers 1016 00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:14,920 Speaker 1: union or even a teachers union thing. It is a 1017 00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:20,320 Speaker 1: labor movement across the board thing that. Um, the largest, 1018 00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:23,440 Speaker 1: I think the largest unionized workforce in the country is teachers, 1019 00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:28,440 Speaker 1: and we on top of that are a union of 1020 00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:31,000 Speaker 1: workers who have the power to absolutely bring our economy 1021 00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,000 Speaker 1: to a grinding hole if we want to. We could 1022 00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,560 Speaker 1: all go on straight right now and nobody's going to 1023 00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:38,800 Speaker 1: do ship until we go back to work. Um, they 1024 00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:41,080 Speaker 1: could if they, you know, they could try to replace 1025 00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:44,280 Speaker 1: us with like people who are basically like hall monitors 1026 00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,600 Speaker 1: and give kids like canned curriculums. But they wouldn't really 1027 00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,160 Speaker 1: be learning very well, and parents wouldn't be happy with it, 1028 00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,520 Speaker 1: and they wouldn't be entering the workforce with the skills 1029 00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:55,880 Speaker 1: they need to make money for the economy to you know, 1030 00:57:56,000 --> 00:58:01,360 Speaker 1: make money for the almighty Tao. So um. The it 1031 00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:03,760 Speaker 1: has been a project for decades in this country to 1032 00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:07,080 Speaker 1: try to break teachers unions because teacher unions occupy this 1033 00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:12,320 Speaker 1: space where they allow other unions to happen. Um. We have, 1034 00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,920 Speaker 1: you know, enough influence on politicians that they can't just 1035 00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:19,040 Speaker 1: disband the labor board and make unions illegal, which they 1036 00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:22,440 Speaker 1: would absolutely fucking love to And if they could just 1037 00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:25,160 Speaker 1: get rid of these damn teachers unions, maybe they could 1038 00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:28,200 Speaker 1: do it. Um. So you know, and that's what you 1039 00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:30,960 Speaker 1: see with the education reform movement, where you have all 1040 00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:36,320 Speaker 1: these people advocating for bouchers and charter schools, and it's 1041 00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:43,160 Speaker 1: you know, they want to break labor. And I see 1042 00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:45,640 Speaker 1: a lot of I mean, now I'm gonna I'm gonna 1043 00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,240 Speaker 1: scold some of my comrades, but I see a lot 1044 00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:51,520 Speaker 1: of leftists who, um are really skeptical of teachers and 1045 00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:54,840 Speaker 1: don't want to support the teachers union. And I get it, 1046 00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:56,959 Speaker 1: Like there are a lot of teachers who really suck. 1047 00:58:57,040 --> 00:58:58,880 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of teachers who are not radical, 1048 00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:01,120 Speaker 1: like most teachers are not radical. A lot of them 1049 00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:04,880 Speaker 1: are pretty conservative, but at the same time. If you 1050 00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:12,400 Speaker 1: were to abolish schools immediately right now and break up 1051 00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,000 Speaker 1: the teachers unions and all that, you're gonna get end 1052 00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:18,840 Speaker 1: up with. Rich people go to school, poor people don't. 1053 00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:21,920 Speaker 1: If your poor your kid goes to work, probably won't 1054 00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:24,600 Speaker 1: be in a coal mine, but you know they'll probably 1055 00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:29,560 Speaker 1: be like soldering my computer chips or coding or something 1056 00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:33,040 Speaker 1: for like pennies an hour. And I don't want that world. 1057 00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,440 Speaker 1: And if you actually care about labor, then you need 1058 00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:39,440 Speaker 1: to support teachers unions because um, the public schools are 1059 00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:42,640 Speaker 1: central to all these communities that we want to be reaching, 1060 00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:46,840 Speaker 1: and the unions are the only thing making sure that 1061 00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:51,720 Speaker 1: they stay public. Yeah. Yeah, that's like I almost like 1062 00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:54,240 Speaker 1: again like to to to to anarchist comrades who are 1063 00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:57,919 Speaker 1: anti school, it's like, yeah, like I hate school, I'm 1064 00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:01,600 Speaker 1: for it, d D schooling is great, but we need 1065 01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:03,680 Speaker 1: to do other things first. Yeah, you have to And 1066 01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:07,120 Speaker 1: like again like that you need to like like support 1067 01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:11,800 Speaker 1: the workers, not the institution. Like it's like it's like 1068 01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:13,840 Speaker 1: saying I'm a vegan, so I'm going to go after 1069 01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:18,880 Speaker 1: McDonald's in place, just like like so like I I 1070 01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:21,600 Speaker 1: my high school was like all this was much like 1071 01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:24,400 Speaker 1: incredibly conservative, but everyone was still in the Union. That 1072 01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:26,880 Speaker 1: was like the one. That was the one thing that 1073 01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:29,560 Speaker 1: was like, well, okay, they were there, there there. There 1074 01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:32,320 Speaker 1: there were two counter failing forces. One was that I 1075 01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,120 Speaker 1: the Christians didn't seem to understand what liberation theology was, 1076 01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:38,760 Speaker 1: so occasionally they'd accidentally hire leftist because they were like, oh, 1077 01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:41,680 Speaker 1: you're a Christian, You're fine, you're from America. We're not 1078 01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:44,240 Speaker 1: gonna question you further. The second thing was that even 1079 01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:46,200 Speaker 1: everyone everyone was in the Union, and that was like 1080 01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:48,240 Speaker 1: that was that was literally the only those are the 1081 01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:53,160 Speaker 1: only two left wing Like vague, I've gotten into so 1082 01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:56,520 Speaker 1: many teaching spaces by talking about how I like critical 1083 01:00:56,520 --> 01:01:03,560 Speaker 1: pedagogy and idn't understand very was a conference or being like, oh, 1084 01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:07,360 Speaker 1: I'm really really really into Chicago history. I especially love 1085 01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:10,240 Speaker 1: the history of like labor in Chicago because it's it's 1086 01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:13,240 Speaker 1: huge people here here about it and they don't get 1087 01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:19,160 Speaker 1: that like I'm an anarchist, you know, and and a 1088 01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:24,840 Speaker 1: lot of the like um sort of like education reform language. 1089 01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:28,920 Speaker 1: I think it's very funny. It is just lifted from 1090 01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:34,680 Speaker 1: radical like sociologists and anthropologists and educators who are trying 1091 01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:39,800 Speaker 1: to find ways to um dismantle like authoritarian structures in schools, 1092 01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:43,080 Speaker 1: and so they'll come up with these like, um, you know, 1093 01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:46,840 Speaker 1: like restorative practices and all this stuff, and then they 1094 01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:48,840 Speaker 1: kind of get they make their way up to the 1095 01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:53,440 Speaker 1: Ivory Tower and then get repackaged in this It's it's like, 1096 01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:56,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's like a machine or something that 1097 01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:59,800 Speaker 1: like sucks up radical ideas, brings them up to the academy, 1098 01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:02,800 Speaker 1: repackages them to make them nice for politicians, and then 1099 01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:07,600 Speaker 1: spits them back out. And it is exhausting and I 1100 01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:09,840 Speaker 1: hate it. It makes me so mad. I'll never forgive 1101 01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:15,880 Speaker 1: people for what they did to the term restorative justice. Yeah, 1102 01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:18,520 Speaker 1: do you have anything else that you want to make 1103 01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:21,240 Speaker 1: sure that people like understand about what's happening in the 1104 01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:24,960 Speaker 1: schools right now? Um, I guess just the biggest thing 1105 01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:29,280 Speaker 1: is I want people to understand that, like, this is 1106 01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:33,600 Speaker 1: a question of when and under what conditions are we 1107 01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:36,080 Speaker 1: going to be forced into a remote learning situation. This 1108 01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:39,040 Speaker 1: isn't like we want remote learning because we like it 1109 01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:42,960 Speaker 1: because it's fun. It's because it's going to happen if 1110 01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:44,920 Speaker 1: you like it or not. The schools are going to 1111 01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:47,760 Speaker 1: close if you like it or not, because the unless 1112 01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:50,360 Speaker 1: you're okay with just like people are going to get 1113 01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:52,840 Speaker 1: sick and die and or going to work sick, which 1114 01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:55,680 Speaker 1: I think most of us agree that's insane. Um it 1115 01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:58,240 Speaker 1: is there are you. We're going to be in a 1116 01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,400 Speaker 1: situation where we don't have enough sta have to keep 1117 01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:06,040 Speaker 1: buildings open. So either we can try and mitigate that 1118 01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:09,640 Speaker 1: now and keep that from happening, or we can just 1119 01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:12,000 Speaker 1: start our hands up and say, fine, let's let the 1120 01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:16,480 Speaker 1: schools collapse. I don't want the schools to collapse, So, um, 1121 01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:18,560 Speaker 1: if we could just go remote for two weeks and 1122 01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:23,000 Speaker 1: get some good testing in and have a vaccine requirement, 1123 01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:26,760 Speaker 1: And personally, I would like to advocate for remote as 1124 01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:29,360 Speaker 1: an option for parents who want it. I don't think 1125 01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:32,040 Speaker 1: that's on the table right now, but um, I think 1126 01:03:32,040 --> 01:03:35,280 Speaker 1: more parents out there should be demanding it. And I 1127 01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:38,400 Speaker 1: also would like to say to parents, you have a 1128 01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:42,320 Speaker 1: lot of power that you don't understand. Um. The school 1129 01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:45,680 Speaker 1: districts listen to the parents so much more than the teachers. 1130 01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:48,960 Speaker 1: One parents voice is worth like ten teacher voices. So 1131 01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:51,360 Speaker 1: if you see something going on in your schools that 1132 01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:56,080 Speaker 1: you're not comfortable with, if you have questions, contact your principles, 1133 01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:59,640 Speaker 1: contact the district, talk to people, talk to the other 1134 01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:03,400 Speaker 1: parents that you know, organize yourselves. Um, if we had, 1135 01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:08,600 Speaker 1: you know, strong parent organizations on our side, we would 1136 01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:11,680 Speaker 1: be absolutely unstoppable and we could have the school system 1137 01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:15,080 Speaker 1: that we want and that our kids deserve. Yeah. And 1138 01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,080 Speaker 1: I think I like the right figured this out a 1139 01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:21,440 Speaker 1: long time ago that you absolutely Yeah, look at what 1140 01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:24,080 Speaker 1: they're doing to the school board meetings with CRT. Yeah, 1141 01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:27,000 Speaker 1: we could have that for people who are actually good 1142 01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:30,400 Speaker 1: people who care, like there's no there's no reason that 1143 01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:32,600 Speaker 1: all of the other parents couldn't be going and saying 1144 01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:35,000 Speaker 1: I want my kids to learn about race, and I 1145 01:04:35,040 --> 01:04:36,880 Speaker 1: want them to be wearing masks, and I want everybody 1146 01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:39,240 Speaker 1: to be vaccinated. Yeah. So I think I think I 1147 01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:42,320 Speaker 1: think that's a good note to end on. We you know, 1148 01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:44,920 Speaker 1: we can make this better. We just have to, you know, 1149 01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:49,800 Speaker 1: work together. Yea. Do you have anything that you want 1150 01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:51,360 Speaker 1: to plug, like, do you have a way to support 1151 01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:55,200 Speaker 1: the teachers who Um, I think I'll send you a 1152 01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:59,080 Speaker 1: flyer that we have. It has some information for contacting Ottoman, 1153 01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:03,200 Speaker 1: getting COVID tests and a petition to sign um. If 1154 01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:06,000 Speaker 1: you could post that I would really appreciate that. I 1155 01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:11,040 Speaker 1: definitely can definitely do that. Awesome. Thank you coming. Yeah, 1156 01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:21,200 Speaker 1: good talking to you. Hey, Lead the listeners tag here. 1157 01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,640 Speaker 1: Last season on Lethal Lit, you might remember, I came 1158 01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:28,400 Speaker 1: to Hollow Falls on a mission clearing my aunt Best's 1159 01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:33,480 Speaker 1: name and making sure justice was finally served. But I 1160 01:05:33,560 --> 01:05:36,600 Speaker 1: hadn't counted on a rash of new murders tearing apart 1161 01:05:36,640 --> 01:05:40,840 Speaker 1: the town. My mission put myself and my friends in danger. 1162 01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:45,280 Speaker 1: Though it wasn't all bad, I'm going to be real 1163 01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:49,720 Speaker 1: Ify Tig, I like you, but now all signs point 1164 01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:53,000 Speaker 1: to a new serial killer in Hollow Falls. If this 1165 01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:56,439 Speaker 1: game is just starting, you better believe I'm gonna win. 1166 01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:02,680 Speaker 1: I'm tig Torres and this is Lethal Lit. Catch up 1167 01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:05,120 Speaker 1: on season one of the hit murder mystery podcast Lead 1168 01:06:05,240 --> 01:06:07,920 Speaker 1: Lit a tag Tara's Mystery out now, and then to 1169 01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:10,400 Speaker 1: an in for all new thrills in season two, dropping 1170 01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:13,920 Speaker 1: weekly starting February nine. Subscribe now to never miss an episode. 1171 01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:16,280 Speaker 1: Listen to Leave the Lit on the I Heart Radio app, 1172 01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:20,760 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm 1173 01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:23,440 Speaker 1: Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and we're the hosts 1174 01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:26,280 Speaker 1: of the science podcast Stuff to Blow Your Mind, where 1175 01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:28,520 Speaker 1: every week we get to explore some of the weirdest 1176 01:06:28,600 --> 01:06:32,880 Speaker 1: questions in the universe, like if sci fi teleportation was possible, 1177 01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:35,800 Speaker 1: how would it square with the multitudes of organisms that 1178 01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:39,080 Speaker 1: inhabit our human bodies? Can we find evidence of emotions 1179 01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:42,800 Speaker 1: in animals like bees, ants, and crayfish? How would it 1180 01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:47,720 Speaker 1: interplanetary civilization function just free will exist? Stuff to Blow 1181 01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:53,400 Speaker 1: Your Mind examines neurological quandaries, cosmic mysteries, evolutionary marvels, and 1182 01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:56,360 Speaker 1: the wonders of techno history. Basically, this show is the 1183 01:06:56,400 --> 01:07:00,000 Speaker 1: altar where we worship the weirdness of reality. If anybody 1184 01:07:00,120 --> 01:07:03,400 Speaker 1: ever told you you ask the weirdest questions, it is 1185 01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:05,880 Speaker 1: time to come join us in the place where you belong. 1186 01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:09,560 Speaker 1: The Stuff to Blow Your Mind podcast new episodes publish 1187 01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:13,480 Speaker 1: every Tuesday and Thursday, with bonus episodes on Saturdays. Listen 1188 01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:15,080 Speaker 1: to Stuff to Blow Your Mind on the I Heart 1189 01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:18,680 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 1190 01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:23,040 Speaker 1: When P. T. Barnum's Great American Museum burned to the 1191 01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:26,120 Speaker 1: ground in eighteen sixty five, what rose from its ashes 1192 01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:29,920 Speaker 1: would change the world? Welcome to Grim and Mild presents 1193 01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:34,320 Speaker 1: an ongoing journey into the strange, the unusual, and the fascinating. 1194 01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:37,560 Speaker 1: For our inaugural season, we'll be giving you a backstage 1195 01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:41,840 Speaker 1: tour of the always complex and often misunderstood cultural artifact 1196 01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:45,160 Speaker 1: that is the American Side Show. So come along as 1197 01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:48,000 Speaker 1: we visit the shadowy corners of the stage and learn 1198 01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:50,000 Speaker 1: about the people who are at the center of it 1199 01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:53,160 Speaker 1: all in a place where spectacle was king. We will 1200 01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:56,520 Speaker 1: soon discover there's always more to the story than meets 1201 01:07:56,560 --> 01:07:59,800 Speaker 1: the eye. So step right up and get in line. 1202 01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:02,640 Speaker 1: Listen to Grim and Mile Presents now on the I 1203 01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:06,800 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 1204 01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:19,960 Speaker 1: Learn more over at Grim and Mild dot com Slash presents. Alright, Robert, 1205 01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:23,800 Speaker 1: you want to opening us up with something I don't know. Nope, 1206 01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:26,519 Speaker 1: you're opening. The opening is is that is what you 1207 01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:29,439 Speaker 1: just did? Okay, wells already opened. Welcome to take it 1208 01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:33,479 Speaker 1: happen Here the podcast about how things things do be 1209 01:08:33,880 --> 01:08:38,360 Speaker 1: crumbling sometimes, including our ability to introduce the podcast that pages. 1210 01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,679 Speaker 1: It's actually a very meta art piece about the Yeah, 1211 01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:47,160 Speaker 1: we started off very polished and slowly commentary on I 1212 01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:50,560 Speaker 1: don't know something. It's called figure out what. It's a 1213 01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:54,080 Speaker 1: commentary on it. It's called metamodernism. It's the post it's 1214 01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:58,160 Speaker 1: post postmodern. Anyway, Um, what are we talking about? Disinformation 1215 01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:05,920 Speaker 1: and various bullshit today. So among the many disinformation vectors online, 1216 01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:10,000 Speaker 1: Joe Rogan's podcast is obviously one of like the largest 1217 01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:15,200 Speaker 1: single single vectors. Um. Yeah, I mean I've said this before, 1218 01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:17,840 Speaker 1: but I'll say it again. I don't think there's a 1219 01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:21,160 Speaker 1: cable news station as influential as Joe Rogan, you know, 1220 01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:23,320 Speaker 1: and you could you could make commentary on like, oh 1221 01:09:23,360 --> 01:09:25,320 Speaker 1: maybe they have a larger viewership in terms of like 1222 01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:29,439 Speaker 1: their actual ability to influence large numbers of people. Um, 1223 01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:32,800 Speaker 1: there's certainly no single cable news host that comes close 1224 01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:36,280 Speaker 1: to Joe UM. And I would argue probably no network 1225 01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:39,960 Speaker 1: that does. He's extremely influential by virtue of the fact 1226 01:09:40,400 --> 01:09:44,639 Speaker 1: that he's um a meathead of people seem to find 1227 01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:47,400 Speaker 1: friendly and engaging, and he is very charismatic. He's good 1228 01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:50,640 Speaker 1: at what he does, he's good at talking. Yeah. So, 1229 01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:54,240 Speaker 1: multiple times during the past three weeks, Rogan has brought 1230 01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:58,840 Speaker 1: on two separate quote unquote doctors who have started to 1231 01:09:58,880 --> 01:10:02,880 Speaker 1: pedal something called old mass formation psychosis, which is kind 1232 01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:05,600 Speaker 1: of a new vector in the anti vax kind of 1233 01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:10,120 Speaker 1: argument and like headspace, so like as for like the 1234 01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:12,760 Speaker 1: it could happen here a portion of the episode, This 1235 01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:17,080 Speaker 1: one's pretty simple. Could mass formation psychoses happen here? No way, 1236 01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:20,559 Speaker 1: not this time. We created it, not this time. No, 1237 01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:24,679 Speaker 1: not this time. It's totally made up, pure fiction. It's fiction. 1238 01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:27,840 Speaker 1: It's fiction. We made it up. We made this one up. 1239 01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:31,000 Speaker 1: It's a made up tail. It's a total fabrication. Nope, 1240 01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:36,760 Speaker 1: not really ever happened anywhere. I might also argue, no, nope, fictional. 1241 01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:40,960 Speaker 1: We've solved the podcast total this is not a thing, 1242 01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:46,920 Speaker 1: total fabrication, made up tail. So yeah, well, but when 1243 01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:50,040 Speaker 1: whenever these like cook doctors bring up mass formation psychosis, 1244 01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:53,040 Speaker 1: you can actually kind of watch them get close to 1245 01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:57,479 Speaker 1: understanding something real, but then they veer off into reactionary nonsense. 1246 01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:01,880 Speaker 1: Like most powerful on sense, there is an element of 1247 01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:05,320 Speaker 1: truth that it is uh spinning off of, you know, 1248 01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:08,320 Speaker 1: So let's start off with some of the more kind 1249 01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:12,200 Speaker 1: of deranged examples and well then eventually providing at least 1250 01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:16,200 Speaker 1: some background onto the whole massformation psychoa. This this idea, 1251 01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:17,680 Speaker 1: and then we'll kind of discuss some of the more 1252 01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:21,479 Speaker 1: slightly interesting aspects of this argument that Rogan seems fond 1253 01:11:21,479 --> 01:11:23,920 Speaker 1: of pushing right now. So, the first guy I want 1254 01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:28,280 Speaker 1: to talk about is Dr Peter McCole, which is not 1255 01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:31,280 Speaker 1: the not the guy that was trending on Twitter last 1256 01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:33,640 Speaker 1: week or whatever this was. This is someone else that 1257 01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:36,360 Speaker 1: Rogan brought on a few weeks previously who actually started 1258 01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:40,680 Speaker 1: talking about this first. Um So background on McCole. By 1259 01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:43,799 Speaker 1: most accounts, he was like a top cardiologist for many years, 1260 01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:46,320 Speaker 1: you know. He he shares a similar story to other 1261 01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:50,439 Speaker 1: doctors who have become kind of COVID conspiracy celebrities. Former 1262 01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:52,799 Speaker 1: friends and co workers say he was a pretty reasonable 1263 01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:55,160 Speaker 1: guy and a good doctor, and then COVID he realized 1264 01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:58,360 Speaker 1: he could be worth millions of dollars. Yeah, COVID ahead 1265 01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:00,360 Speaker 1: that he started to kind of go off the rails, 1266 01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:03,960 Speaker 1: and he he initially began developing conspiracy theories, in particular 1267 01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:08,360 Speaker 1: around hydroxychlor quinn um. And mccull was also in the 1268 01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:12,799 Speaker 1: news earlier this year due to or I guess uh, 1269 01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:17,400 Speaker 1: due to legal dispute with his former employer, Baylor University Health. So. 1270 01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:20,839 Speaker 1: According to a lawsuit for nearly six months after McCall's 1271 01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:24,080 Speaker 1: employment had ended, he continued to use his professional titles, 1272 01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:26,840 Speaker 1: such as the Vice chief of Internal Medicine at Baylor University, 1273 01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:30,080 Speaker 1: and mis represented himself as a Baylor employee dozens, if 1274 01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:32,680 Speaker 1: not hundreds of times in media interviews in which he 1275 01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:37,560 Speaker 1: spread disinformation about the pandemic. So the type of misinformation 1276 01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:40,840 Speaker 1: that he talks about, you know, pretty basic stuff of 1277 01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:44,160 Speaker 1: vaccines are neither safe nor effective. Um. He was a 1278 01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:47,960 Speaker 1: very early hydroxic quin proponent. Um. He claims that there's 1279 01:12:47,960 --> 01:12:52,679 Speaker 1: no asymptomatic COVID transmission at all, even if you're not vaccinated. Um. 1280 01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:55,240 Speaker 1: And he claims that you cannot get COVID twice once 1281 01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:58,400 Speaker 1: you have at once. The post infection natural immunity is 1282 01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:01,960 Speaker 1: one percent of protective against all future COVID disease, which, 1283 01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:06,040 Speaker 1: of course this thing works that way, works that way. Yeah. No, 1284 01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:09,000 Speaker 1: everything I just said is not true. All of it 1285 01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:12,640 Speaker 1: can individually be disproved by the existance of Jayre Bosonaro, 1286 01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:19,120 Speaker 1: every single to say that, Chris, I'm looking over at 1287 01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:21,880 Speaker 1: my digital picture frame that is just loaded with like 1288 01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:26,679 Speaker 1: a dozen photos of JayR. Bolson Yaro in the hospital dying. Um. Yeah, 1289 01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:30,639 Speaker 1: I recommend everyone do that. It improves every morning. As 1290 01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:32,880 Speaker 1: soon as I walk up to my recording studio, I 1291 01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:35,320 Speaker 1: see JayR. Bolson Yaro getting ship sucked out of his 1292 01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:37,360 Speaker 1: nose from a tube, and I just feel ready to 1293 01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:42,480 Speaker 1: take on the day. It beats coffee. Wow, that's strong words. Um. 1294 01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:44,920 Speaker 1: The other big thing and since how since I want 1295 01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:48,240 Speaker 1: to get into the mess, uh psychosis bullshit is that 1296 01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:52,200 Speaker 1: he McCall also asserts that fifty Americans have died from 1297 01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:56,439 Speaker 1: the vaccine shots. This is not true, um, looking at 1298 01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,720 Speaker 1: like death's possibly associated with it, It is like a 1299 01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:04,760 Speaker 1: maybe a thousand or two thousand, which sucks, um. And 1300 01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:07,639 Speaker 1: but like that's that's the highest amount because again it's 1301 01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:09,839 Speaker 1: not even a lot of these things are not necessarily 1302 01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:13,360 Speaker 1: direct directly causal um, So it's hard to figure out 1303 01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:15,840 Speaker 1: what is what. But if there is a number, it's 1304 01:14:15,880 --> 01:14:20,519 Speaker 1: around the two wish thousand range. Uh not um. And 1305 01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:24,559 Speaker 1: mccaull thinks that, or at least promotes that the idea 1306 01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:27,880 Speaker 1: that like the vaccine, is a conspiracy theory to suppress 1307 01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:31,680 Speaker 1: hydroxical wor quin and therapeutic treatment for COVID. And this 1308 01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:36,120 Speaker 1: conspiracy is organized at every level. Uh. Three different regions, corporations, 1309 01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:39,960 Speaker 1: Big Pharma, Hollywood, and and this is this is the 1310 01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:43,439 Speaker 1: mass formation psychosis, is that we've believed that both COVID 1311 01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:46,400 Speaker 1: is like a big problem and that the vaccine is 1312 01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:49,200 Speaker 1: the solution. So I'm gonna I'm gonna play a clip 1313 01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:53,520 Speaker 1: hopefully you guys can hear this of of of McColl 1314 01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:59,160 Speaker 1: talking about mass formation psychosis. Dope. We've seen mass psychosis 1315 01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:03,720 Speaker 1: in history, both more the horrific group suicides that have 1316 01:15:03,800 --> 01:15:07,760 Speaker 1: happened with religious culture. We knew a Nazi Germany where 1317 01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:11,000 Speaker 1: people in a sense offered their children up to eugenics 1318 01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:14,760 Speaker 1: programs and a progressive mass psychosis, and they themselves walk 1319 01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:17,479 Speaker 1: into gas chambers and my gas that they didn't kick fight, 1320 01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:21,200 Speaker 1: go kicking skimming this type of that's a mass psychosis. 1321 01:15:21,200 --> 01:15:24,800 Speaker 1: So what Desmond says is it must be four conditions 1322 01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:28,800 Speaker 1: met for a mass psychosis. The first is the population 1323 01:15:28,920 --> 01:15:32,080 Speaker 1: must be isolated. People must be isolated for a plot period. 1324 01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:35,800 Speaker 1: Number two, we must have things taken away from us 1325 01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:40,760 Speaker 1: that we previously enjoyed. Number three, there must be constant, 1326 01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:47,200 Speaker 1: free floating anxiety, anxiety of more viruses, more disability, more death, 1327 01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:52,400 Speaker 1: more anxiety. And then The last one is that Kapper 1328 01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:56,519 Speaker 1: number four is there must be a single solution offered 1329 01:15:56,560 --> 01:16:01,599 Speaker 1: by an entity and authority. The vacts scene, the only 1330 01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:05,519 Speaker 1: solution to the pandemic is the vaccine. We're in a 1331 01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:08,960 Speaker 1: mass ecosis. And what Desmond says is with the vaccine, 1332 01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:13,800 Speaker 1: there is no limit to the absurdity that we will see, 1333 01:16:13,920 --> 01:16:17,320 Speaker 1: no limit to the absurdity. So this idea of here, 1334 01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:21,400 Speaker 1: take a vaccine, take any vaccine. That's absurd. Vaccines are different. 1335 01:16:21,439 --> 01:16:23,040 Speaker 1: There must be a winner, there must be a loser, 1336 01:16:23,120 --> 01:16:25,519 Speaker 1: must be something. Why why would it be any vaccine. 1337 01:16:25,560 --> 01:16:27,400 Speaker 1: It's the same with the mask where masks, it doesn't 1338 01:16:27,439 --> 01:16:29,880 Speaker 1: matter what kind of mask, just put it over your face. Absurdity, 1339 01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:34,639 Speaker 1: the absurdity of well, I've already had COVID. The CDC 1340 01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:40,360 Speaker 1: says you can't get COVID again. Okay, so listeners at 1341 01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:43,599 Speaker 1: home should know so that you understand what this video 1342 01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:46,160 Speaker 1: is that the entire time he's talking, there's what appears 1343 01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:48,519 Speaker 1: to be the eviscerated corpse of a black woman lying 1344 01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:52,800 Speaker 1: underneath it. Like it's horrifying, It's like very how do 1345 01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:59,040 Speaker 1: you like like something? I think it's one of the 1346 01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:01,960 Speaker 1: dolls that medical students learned how to do autopsies on 1347 01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:03,840 Speaker 1: It's not a real person, but it does look like 1348 01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:07,240 Speaker 1: the corpse of an eviscerated woman as he's just like chatting. 1349 01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:11,960 Speaker 1: The face really does look like it took me. I 1350 01:17:11,960 --> 01:17:13,559 Speaker 1: thought it was like I couldn't forget what was going 1351 01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:16,639 Speaker 1: on for like, yeah, I mean, yeah, they're the cadaver 1352 01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:19,480 Speaker 1: dolls that they have for trading are quite good. Um, 1353 01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:21,400 Speaker 1: I kind of want to get one for the next 1354 01:17:21,439 --> 01:17:23,479 Speaker 1: time I'm in Texas and want to use an HIV lane. 1355 01:17:23,479 --> 01:17:27,080 Speaker 1: But that's the story for another day. So yeah, that's 1356 01:17:27,640 --> 01:17:33,440 Speaker 1: that's pretty dumb, especially the notion that people were hypnotized 1357 01:17:33,479 --> 01:17:37,240 Speaker 1: into peacefully walking into gas. I just need to stay 1358 01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:40,320 Speaker 1: like that's that not Not only is that like that 1359 01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:43,479 Speaker 1: is objectively untrue to the extent that I could provide 1360 01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:46,799 Speaker 1: anyone interested with thousands of pages of reading from people 1361 01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:51,400 Speaker 1: who survived concentration camps about how they worked and why 1362 01:17:51,560 --> 01:17:54,160 Speaker 1: people walked into them, and a lot of it just 1363 01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:56,599 Speaker 1: boils down to the fact that it was they were 1364 01:17:56,600 --> 01:18:00,200 Speaker 1: making a very rational choice, which was I have no options. Year, 1365 01:18:00,320 --> 01:18:01,920 Speaker 1: I cannot get out of this, but I can at 1366 01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:04,120 Speaker 1: least make sure that my children are not panicking in 1367 01:18:04,160 --> 01:18:06,920 Speaker 1: the last seconds before we're killed. And a lot of 1368 01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:10,479 Speaker 1: the people the the because a lot of the actual 1369 01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:13,280 Speaker 1: like grunt work of of key of loading humans into 1370 01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:15,920 Speaker 1: the gas chambers was done by other inmates who were 1371 01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:19,360 Speaker 1: also not going through psychosis. They were given a chance 1372 01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:23,479 Speaker 1: to survive longer by helping to operate the camps. UM. 1373 01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:27,280 Speaker 1: And those people you can read, some of them did survive, UM. 1374 01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:30,400 Speaker 1: And some of them wrote about their experiences UM, which 1375 01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:33,080 Speaker 1: is some of the most harrowing shit like imaginable for 1376 01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:36,000 Speaker 1: a human being to possibly go through. It is all 1377 01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:39,000 Speaker 1: tremendously well documented. And the most offensive thing I can 1378 01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:42,720 Speaker 1: imagine is saying that these people were somehow is saying 1379 01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:44,720 Speaker 1: Number one, it's incredibly offensive to say that they were 1380 01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:47,240 Speaker 1: going through some sort of psychosis and that's why they 1381 01:18:47,240 --> 01:18:50,160 Speaker 1: walked into the chambers and not This was the best 1382 01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:53,599 Speaker 1: option available to them, given what was going on and 1383 01:18:53,640 --> 01:18:56,680 Speaker 1: what like the situation they had been forced into. They 1384 01:18:56,680 --> 01:19:00,000 Speaker 1: did not have other options. UM. It was that or 1385 01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:03,360 Speaker 1: get machine gun to death. UM. And maybe you think 1386 01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:05,920 Speaker 1: you would choose a different option, UM. But if you're 1387 01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:08,200 Speaker 1: critiquing them or trying to claim that like the only 1388 01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:09,680 Speaker 1: reason they would do that. What they did was that 1389 01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:12,479 Speaker 1: they had lost their minds Um, I will I will 1390 01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:14,360 Speaker 1: hit you in the face with a brick. Fuck you 1391 01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:17,080 Speaker 1: like that. That that's my answer to that. Actually, if 1392 01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:22,360 Speaker 1: you are someone who is interested academically and why people 1393 01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:25,000 Speaker 1: did some of the things that they did at at 1394 01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:28,639 Speaker 1: the death camps, um, and like why how that actually 1395 01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:33,639 Speaker 1: functioned psychologically. It's like a short book. It's this way 1396 01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:36,240 Speaker 1: for the gas ladies and gentlemen. And it is a 1397 01:19:36,320 --> 01:19:39,760 Speaker 1: quasi fictionalized book by a guy named Taddius Borowski who 1398 01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:41,840 Speaker 1: was a survivor of the death camp. So it's based 1399 01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:45,800 Speaker 1: on his experiences at Auschwitzendakau Um and he he describes 1400 01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:49,599 Speaker 1: the way in which the world of the camps worked 1401 01:19:49,640 --> 01:19:53,080 Speaker 1: and the psychology of the camps worked. Um. And he's 1402 01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:55,799 Speaker 1: not and he's not a piece of ship grifter asshole. 1403 01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:58,040 Speaker 1: He's a guy who lived through all of this. So 1404 01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:00,599 Speaker 1: if you actually care about any of this, just read 1405 01:20:00,680 --> 01:20:03,360 Speaker 1: that everything this guy says is wrong, and if I 1406 01:20:03,439 --> 01:20:04,880 Speaker 1: had a chance to, I would hit him in the 1407 01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:08,040 Speaker 1: face with a brick. Please continue, Garrison. Yeah, it really 1408 01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:12,480 Speaker 1: sucks because it's not just a combination of medical misinformation 1409 01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:17,240 Speaker 1: but also just the most ship sociology. UM, and it 1410 01:20:17,360 --> 01:20:22,720 Speaker 1: creates this a really a really disgusting package of of 1411 01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:26,960 Speaker 1: of really bad sociology medical misinformation. Um. And like yeah, 1412 01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:30,559 Speaker 1: he's doing this too, like because he can make a 1413 01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:32,479 Speaker 1: profit off of it, So he's saying these things. So 1414 01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:36,400 Speaker 1: I know, UM, he mentioned a name, Desmond. Desmond's the 1415 01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:39,160 Speaker 1: guy who kind of coined this term. We'll we'll talk 1416 01:20:39,160 --> 01:20:41,559 Speaker 1: about more about him at the end, but for now, 1417 01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:44,000 Speaker 1: let's go on an ad break and we'll be back 1418 01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:48,000 Speaker 1: to talk about Dr Robert Malone, the other other guy 1419 01:20:48,040 --> 01:20:53,200 Speaker 1: who's been pushing this nonsense. So I probably will want 1420 01:20:53,200 --> 01:20:57,800 Speaker 1: to hit with a brick even more so, honestly. And 1421 01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:02,960 Speaker 1: we're back talking now about mass formation, psychosis and the 1422 01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:06,280 Speaker 1: dumb people who are well or smart people who are 1423 01:21:06,360 --> 01:21:12,160 Speaker 1: using they're they're evil. That tough. So yeah. So after 1424 01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:15,439 Speaker 1: after McColl went on Rogan's show, it got that that 1425 01:21:15,439 --> 01:21:19,439 Speaker 1: show got pretty popular. UM. One one big right wing 1426 01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:23,080 Speaker 1: kind of Trumpett media personality named Melissa Tate was permanently 1427 01:21:23,080 --> 01:21:25,719 Speaker 1: banned from Twitter after posting about the podcast and making 1428 01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:29,560 Speaker 1: the following post to her half a million followers, Global Bombshale. 1429 01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:32,519 Speaker 1: Dr Peter McCall on the Joe Rogan Show says Maderna 1430 01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:35,200 Speaker 1: made the Coode vaccine long before COVID actually hit, and 1431 01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:38,599 Speaker 1: that the pandemic was a premeditated and concerted scheme by 1432 01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:42,200 Speaker 1: government and medical entities to then force vaccinations as the solution. 1433 01:21:43,160 --> 01:21:46,519 Speaker 1: So that's the type of narrative that they're trying to 1434 01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:50,599 Speaker 1: foster because the pandemics has been so good for Biden's 1435 01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:54,200 Speaker 1: approval ratings. It's really working out great for everybody. Uh 1436 01:21:54,479 --> 01:21:57,679 Speaker 1: us U S Senator Ron Johnson also promoted the interview, 1437 01:21:57,800 --> 01:22:04,720 Speaker 1: saying Rogan asks excellent questions, McCall provides the answers. So yeah, um. 1438 01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:08,760 Speaker 1: So apparently the mass formation Psychosis Doctor Guy was enough 1439 01:22:08,760 --> 01:22:11,760 Speaker 1: of a hit that Rogan's team decided to very soon 1440 01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:17,720 Speaker 1: after bring on another line, conspiracy doctor doctor Robert Malone. 1441 01:22:18,160 --> 01:22:23,840 Speaker 1: So during the last week, Rogan invited Malone onto his show. 1442 01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:29,120 Speaker 1: Malone's of of a virologist and and a immunization doctor 1443 01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:32,680 Speaker 1: who claims credit for inventing the m r n A 1444 01:22:32,920 --> 01:22:37,240 Speaker 1: vaccine in a pair of papers from the late eighties spoilers, 1445 01:22:37,280 --> 01:22:40,160 Speaker 1: he did not there was the vaccine before him, and 1446 01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:45,640 Speaker 1: work continued after him. Yeah yeah, um yeah. In in 1447 01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:50,520 Speaker 1: eighty nine, he published a paper UM kind of positing 1448 01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:54,720 Speaker 1: maybe mr NA can be binded with with other kind 1449 01:22:54,720 --> 01:22:58,519 Speaker 1: of uh proteins. He did not really do any work 1450 01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:01,519 Speaker 1: on it besides just sing, I wonder if this could 1451 01:23:01,560 --> 01:23:07,519 Speaker 1: maybe happen, um, and then knowledge were people asking similar 1452 01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:12,840 Speaker 1: questions and publishing papers at the same time of the question. Yeah. 1453 01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:16,799 Speaker 1: So Malone actually thought this was too hard and abandoned 1454 01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:19,559 Speaker 1: this project very soon and then went to work for 1455 01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:23,200 Speaker 1: like the military to develop other random like uh. He 1456 01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:25,559 Speaker 1: thought the RNA vaccines were too hard, so he went 1457 01:23:25,560 --> 01:23:29,479 Speaker 1: on to develop more stuff around DNA vaccines and has 1458 01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:32,400 Speaker 1: been working with like the military and various like big 1459 01:23:32,439 --> 01:23:36,360 Speaker 1: farmer companies fun vaccines for a while. More accurately, Dr 1460 01:23:36,479 --> 01:23:39,840 Speaker 1: Carrico and Drew Wiseman are two doctors that are widely 1461 01:23:39,880 --> 01:23:42,840 Speaker 1: agreed and acknowledged to have put the most development work 1462 01:23:43,040 --> 01:23:46,400 Speaker 1: and actual like like actually doing the science to make 1463 01:23:47,080 --> 01:23:50,519 Speaker 1: m M RNA vaccines a thing, um. And then of 1464 01:23:50,560 --> 01:23:53,160 Speaker 1: course development of them was due to you know, work 1465 01:23:53,200 --> 01:23:56,840 Speaker 1: of hundreds of researchers. UM. So it's it's not you know, 1466 01:23:56,960 --> 01:23:59,400 Speaker 1: one person does not invent something like this, it's it's 1467 01:23:59,400 --> 01:24:01,080 Speaker 1: a group of a lot of people. But but it 1468 01:24:01,160 --> 01:24:04,960 Speaker 1: makes it for an easy title for your viral video. Yes, 1469 01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:09,479 Speaker 1: and in fact, actually um uh logically, the That's a 1470 01:24:09,560 --> 01:24:13,799 Speaker 1: Journalist website reached out to Malone and for an article, 1471 01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:17,280 Speaker 1: and Malone replied Black stating that he did not actually 1472 01:24:17,400 --> 01:24:22,600 Speaker 1: literally invent the the vaccine, but instead developed a vaccine 1473 01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:29,160 Speaker 1: technology platform. Um. Then he presented logically copies with nine patents, um, 1474 01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:32,400 Speaker 1: none of which are the patents for functioning mrn A 1475 01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:37,400 Speaker 1: vaccines of course. Um. But but he he claims to 1476 01:24:37,439 --> 01:24:41,160 Speaker 1: have patented mr and A technology. I mean he did. 1477 01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:44,479 Speaker 1: It's technology that doesn't work and never has and never 1478 01:24:44,560 --> 01:24:48,080 Speaker 1: has worked, and the patents are expired. Um. Anyway, I 1479 01:24:48,120 --> 01:24:50,120 Speaker 1: need to pat some ship. That just sounds like a 1480 01:24:50,160 --> 01:24:53,599 Speaker 1: real easy way to make a good grift. Yeah. So, 1481 01:24:53,760 --> 01:25:01,000 Speaker 1: you know, as we've seen with my O, but because 1482 01:25:01,040 --> 01:25:03,720 Speaker 1: because Malone has crafted this you know, narrative that I'm 1483 01:25:03,800 --> 01:25:06,200 Speaker 1: the inventor of this thing. You know, look, just like 1484 01:25:06,240 --> 01:25:08,759 Speaker 1: we've seen with my like COVID Griffin name Doctor's episode 1485 01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:11,639 Speaker 1: behind the Bastards, just a little shred of like medical 1486 01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:15,080 Speaker 1: authority can be more often transformed with propaganda into something 1487 01:25:15,160 --> 01:25:17,800 Speaker 1: much greater than what it is, you know, whether that 1488 01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:20,400 Speaker 1: be claiming to be the inventor of the m R 1489 01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:22,639 Speaker 1: and A or you know, claiming to be the former 1490 01:25:22,640 --> 01:25:25,519 Speaker 1: Heads Scientists adviser. Neither of those have to actually be 1491 01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:30,920 Speaker 1: true to work, because propaganda makes it true via like repetition. 1492 01:25:31,320 --> 01:25:33,240 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's it's the kind of thing where like 1493 01:25:33,320 --> 01:25:36,040 Speaker 1: dunking on these guys like it's important here to correct 1494 01:25:36,080 --> 01:25:38,880 Speaker 1: the record, it doesn't do anything. No, the fact that 1495 01:25:38,920 --> 01:25:41,439 Speaker 1: they and nothing that they say is true does not 1496 01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:44,000 Speaker 1: matter when it comes to them having an influence in 1497 01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:46,920 Speaker 1: the community they have. If you get on Rogan, it 1498 01:25:47,080 --> 01:25:49,360 Speaker 1: doesn't like like you've already done the thing that you 1499 01:25:49,400 --> 01:25:51,600 Speaker 1: need to do to be able to to profit from this. 1500 01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:54,320 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter that you're lying. A few months ago, 1501 01:25:54,400 --> 01:25:56,280 Speaker 1: Malone went on to Steve Bannon Show to talk about 1502 01:25:56,280 --> 01:25:59,320 Speaker 1: how the vaccines make COVID worse worse actually, and you 1503 01:25:59,360 --> 01:26:01,080 Speaker 1: know this is the is the quote from Steve Bannon. 1504 01:26:01,400 --> 01:26:03,680 Speaker 1: You're hearing it from the individual who invented the m 1505 01:26:03,760 --> 01:26:06,960 Speaker 1: R and A vaccine and has dedicated his life to vaccines. 1506 01:26:07,160 --> 01:26:10,040 Speaker 1: He's the opposite of an anti vaxer, right, So it's 1507 01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:15,800 Speaker 1: it's it's that picular. So yeah, start starting around June one, 1508 01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:19,599 Speaker 1: Malone began to make the rounds you know, Bannon Tucker, 1509 01:26:19,800 --> 01:26:23,439 Speaker 1: Glenn Beck, um, and now Joe Rogan. So you know, 1510 01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:26,200 Speaker 1: starting in June, he had like less than five thousand 1511 01:26:26,479 --> 01:26:30,160 Speaker 1: Twitter followers. Uh and just before his suspension at the 1512 01:26:30,200 --> 01:26:33,439 Speaker 1: end of December for spreading misinformation, he had like over 1513 01:26:33,479 --> 01:26:39,599 Speaker 1: half million. Um. So yeah, So right after his Twitter 1514 01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:43,680 Speaker 1: suspension for lying about COVID and causing you know, misinformation 1515 01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:47,200 Speaker 1: to run to to run rampant around a health issue. Um, 1516 01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:49,719 Speaker 1: that's when Rogan invited him on and was right after 1517 01:26:49,720 --> 01:26:52,839 Speaker 1: he got suspended from Twitter. And there's been one particular 1518 01:26:52,840 --> 01:26:55,600 Speaker 1: clip from the interview that has really caught like the 1519 01:26:55,600 --> 01:26:58,840 Speaker 1: far right's attention. Um, you know, the tweet that's it's 1520 01:26:58,920 --> 01:27:02,000 Speaker 1: it's connected to it was captioned on Joe Rogan. Dr 1521 01:27:02,120 --> 01:27:05,080 Speaker 1: Robert Malone suggests we are living through a mass formation psychosis. 1522 01:27:05,320 --> 01:27:08,080 Speaker 1: He explains how and why this could happen and its effects. 1523 01:27:08,439 --> 01:27:11,680 Speaker 1: He draws analogy to the nineteen twenties and thirties Germany. 1524 01:27:11,760 --> 01:27:15,640 Speaker 1: They had a highly educated population and they went barking mad. Um, 1525 01:27:16,200 --> 01:27:18,760 Speaker 1: they did not. They made a series of logical The 1526 01:27:18,840 --> 01:27:21,559 Speaker 1: Nazis did not go mad. They were not crazy, They 1527 01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:24,599 Speaker 1: were not out of their mind. They were doing they 1528 01:27:24,600 --> 01:27:27,040 Speaker 1: were a large part of what they were doing was 1529 01:27:27,240 --> 01:27:30,720 Speaker 1: saying things that they knew were nonsense and lies in 1530 01:27:30,840 --> 01:27:33,439 Speaker 1: order to get elected because it riled people up. And 1531 01:27:33,479 --> 01:27:35,880 Speaker 1: then a large chunk of their policy was figuring out, well, 1532 01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:38,000 Speaker 1: if this is the ship that we've been saying, how 1533 01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:40,759 Speaker 1: do we how do we translate that into policy? Again, 1534 01:27:41,120 --> 01:27:45,800 Speaker 1: realms have been written on this by credible researchers. The 1535 01:27:45,840 --> 01:27:48,519 Speaker 1: people who ran the camps were not insane, although they 1536 01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:52,000 Speaker 1: were often deeply depressed in suicidal because it's not good 1537 01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:55,919 Speaker 1: to run a death camp, they were all making rational decisions. 1538 01:27:55,920 --> 01:27:58,240 Speaker 1: And the people who let it happen, we're letting it 1539 01:27:58,320 --> 01:28:03,000 Speaker 1: happen because it was dangerous and scary to interfere in 1540 01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:05,720 Speaker 1: any way. They were all making rational decisions. There was 1541 01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:09,720 Speaker 1: no insanity responsible for the Holocaust, which is worse like 1542 01:28:09,840 --> 01:28:11,960 Speaker 1: in the party everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What they're like, 1543 01:28:11,960 --> 01:28:14,080 Speaker 1: they're they're what they're doing is like they're they're they're 1544 01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:16,000 Speaker 1: they're trying to give people a way out right like that, 1545 01:28:16,160 --> 01:28:18,320 Speaker 1: you know, this is this is sort of like, oh, 1546 01:28:18,400 --> 01:28:20,320 Speaker 1: it's well, the Nazis went insane. All the people who 1547 01:28:20,320 --> 01:28:22,400 Speaker 1: follow them went and saying it's like, no, no, they don't. 1548 01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:25,320 Speaker 1: You don't get that way out like you. They chose 1549 01:28:25,360 --> 01:28:28,599 Speaker 1: to do this. Yeah. The the scariest and most meaningful 1550 01:28:28,680 --> 01:28:30,960 Speaker 1: lesson to take from the Holocaust is that you yourself 1551 01:28:31,080 --> 01:28:33,040 Speaker 1: could be a part of a holocaust, even if you 1552 01:28:33,080 --> 01:28:36,640 Speaker 1: didn't support the killing, because it's extremely easy to not 1553 01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:39,360 Speaker 1: get involved and stop something like that once it reaches 1554 01:28:39,400 --> 01:28:41,720 Speaker 1: a certain level. And it's easy for the kind of 1555 01:28:41,720 --> 01:28:45,360 Speaker 1: political organizations that can make things like that possible to 1556 01:28:45,520 --> 01:28:47,519 Speaker 1: reach a point where they can carry that sort of 1557 01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:51,559 Speaker 1: ship out because again, it's scary to fucking fight them. Uh, 1558 01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:54,400 Speaker 1: let's want the clips like a minute long, and I 1559 01:28:54,439 --> 01:28:57,560 Speaker 1: think it's worth watching to see both in the context 1560 01:28:57,600 --> 01:29:00,000 Speaker 1: of when Rogan decides to interject and when he decid 1561 01:29:00,040 --> 01:29:04,080 Speaker 1: it's not too basically European intellectual inquiry into what the 1562 01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:08,200 Speaker 1: heck happened in the twenties and thirties. You know, very intelligent, 1563 01:29:08,280 --> 01:29:12,200 Speaker 1: highly educated population and they went barking mad um And 1564 01:29:12,640 --> 01:29:18,000 Speaker 1: how did that happen? Um? The answer is mass formation psychosis. 1565 01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:21,720 Speaker 1: When you have a society that has become decoupled from 1566 01:29:21,720 --> 01:29:25,599 Speaker 1: each other and has free floating anxiety in a sense 1567 01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:29,720 Speaker 1: that things don't make sense, we can't understand it, and 1568 01:29:29,800 --> 01:29:32,439 Speaker 1: then their attention gets focused by a leader or a 1569 01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:35,880 Speaker 1: series of events on one small point. Just like hypnosis, 1570 01:29:36,920 --> 01:29:41,400 Speaker 1: they literally become hypnotized and can be led anywhere. And 1571 01:29:41,560 --> 01:29:44,240 Speaker 1: one of the aspects of that phenomena is the people 1572 01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:47,200 Speaker 1: that they identify as their leaders, the ones typically that 1573 01:29:47,280 --> 01:29:50,160 Speaker 1: come in and say, you have this pain, and I 1574 01:29:50,200 --> 01:29:52,880 Speaker 1: can solve it for you. I and I alone, okay, 1575 01:29:53,040 --> 01:29:55,920 Speaker 1: can fix this problem for you. Okay. Then they will lead. 1576 01:29:56,000 --> 01:29:58,679 Speaker 1: They will follow that person through how It doesn't matter 1577 01:29:58,680 --> 01:30:02,360 Speaker 1: whether they lie to them or whatever. The data are irrelevant. 1578 01:30:02,840 --> 01:30:07,120 Speaker 1: And furthermore, anybody who questions that narrative is to be 1579 01:30:07,160 --> 01:30:11,160 Speaker 1: immediately attacked. They are the other. This is central to 1580 01:30:11,400 --> 01:30:15,519 Speaker 1: mass formation psychosis, and this is what has happened. We 1581 01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:20,559 Speaker 1: had all those conditions. If you remember back before, everybody 1582 01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:24,400 Speaker 1: was complaining the world doesn't make sense, blah blah blah um, 1583 01:30:24,439 --> 01:30:26,960 Speaker 1: and we're all isolated from each other, we're all on 1584 01:30:26,960 --> 01:30:31,000 Speaker 1: our little tools, we're not connected socially anymore except through 1585 01:30:31,040 --> 01:30:34,799 Speaker 1: social media. Um. And then this thing happened and everybody 1586 01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:38,599 Speaker 1: focused on it. That is how mass formation psychosis happens, 1587 01:30:39,040 --> 01:30:44,080 Speaker 1: and that is what's happened here. Horrible, completely wrong, um 1588 01:30:44,120 --> 01:30:47,800 Speaker 1: in every single way. UM. They the Germans were not 1589 01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:51,280 Speaker 1: confused because nothing made sense. They were angry because of 1590 01:30:51,320 --> 01:30:53,360 Speaker 1: the terms of the Treaty of Versailles. That were also 1591 01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:56,519 Speaker 1: angry because of what they saw as and what like, 1592 01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:59,080 Speaker 1: because of a myth that had grown up about why 1593 01:30:59,120 --> 01:31:01,200 Speaker 1: they had lost the first to World War, which was 1594 01:31:01,240 --> 01:31:03,559 Speaker 1: spread by people who were the equivalent in that time 1595 01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:07,240 Speaker 1: of Joe Rogan. They were scared of the left, of communism, 1596 01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:10,559 Speaker 1: of disorder, of riots in the streets, um and one 1597 01:31:10,680 --> 01:31:13,960 Speaker 1: whin Hitler took power. Most Germans did not like him. 1598 01:31:14,000 --> 01:31:17,800 Speaker 1: They did not blindly follow him. He gradually gained the 1599 01:31:17,920 --> 01:31:21,000 Speaker 1: vast the support of the vast majority of Germany through 1600 01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:23,640 Speaker 1: a number of different, very logical things. One thing that 1601 01:31:23,680 --> 01:31:25,479 Speaker 1: he did that got him a lot of support was 1602 01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:29,800 Speaker 1: he took businesses and homes and money from Jewish people 1603 01:31:29,880 --> 01:31:32,759 Speaker 1: and from members of other groups that the Nazis were targeting, 1604 01:31:32,920 --> 01:31:35,200 Speaker 1: and he gave it to Arians. There was a direct 1605 01:31:35,280 --> 01:31:37,360 Speaker 1: financial interest for a lot of people who got in 1606 01:31:37,400 --> 01:31:40,000 Speaker 1: line behind the Nazis, and he established a series of 1607 01:31:40,000 --> 01:31:42,439 Speaker 1: programs like the Strength through Joy program, that really did 1608 01:31:42,560 --> 01:31:45,320 Speaker 1: benefit in a way that they had not known before 1609 01:31:45,640 --> 01:31:48,160 Speaker 1: the German working class um. And a lot of this 1610 01:31:48,240 --> 01:31:51,240 Speaker 1: was again subsidized through the appropriations of things that had 1611 01:31:51,240 --> 01:31:53,920 Speaker 1: been owned by people that the Nazis were targeting. People 1612 01:31:53,960 --> 01:31:56,360 Speaker 1: fell in line behind Hitler for logical reasons. He did 1613 01:31:56,360 --> 01:31:58,800 Speaker 1: not reach the highest point of his support from the 1614 01:31:58,800 --> 01:32:02,559 Speaker 1: German populace until the taking of Paris, which obviously that 1615 01:32:02,720 --> 01:32:04,920 Speaker 1: was something that a lot of Germans supported. They had 1616 01:32:04,920 --> 01:32:07,400 Speaker 1: spent four years failing to take the city in World 1617 01:32:07,439 --> 01:32:11,679 Speaker 1: War One. Um. Anyway, Sorry, it's all nonsense, it's all lies. 1618 01:32:12,680 --> 01:32:15,479 Speaker 1: I think the reason why this is latching on so 1619 01:32:15,560 --> 01:32:17,960 Speaker 1: much to people on the right, like people on the 1620 01:32:18,040 --> 01:32:20,880 Speaker 1: right who who don't consider themselves fascists, who who think 1621 01:32:21,200 --> 01:32:24,080 Speaker 1: who would say Nazis are bad, right, there's they still 1622 01:32:24,240 --> 01:32:27,360 Speaker 1: are latching onto this because it provides a way for 1623 01:32:27,400 --> 01:32:31,680 Speaker 1: them to not understand how fascism actually works. Right. It 1624 01:32:32,320 --> 01:32:35,880 Speaker 1: provides an alternative explanation that makes them not have to 1625 01:32:35,920 --> 01:32:40,320 Speaker 1: actually think about what fascism is. Um. And that's why 1626 01:32:40,360 --> 01:32:43,160 Speaker 1: they're latching onto it. And it also is already it's 1627 01:32:43,200 --> 01:32:46,919 Speaker 1: already a part of the conspiracies they have around vaccines 1628 01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:51,439 Speaker 1: and power structures. So because because it's the conspiratorial basis, 1629 01:32:51,479 --> 01:32:53,960 Speaker 1: instead of like thinking about power structures from like an 1630 01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:58,679 Speaker 1: anarchistical like like hierarchy lens, it reinforces the world views 1631 01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:00,600 Speaker 1: they have and makes them not half to interrogate the 1632 01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:04,959 Speaker 1: ones that they don't want to. Um it sucks. Malone's 1633 01:33:05,040 --> 01:33:08,280 Speaker 1: substack goes into more of this and it's it's it's 1634 01:33:08,280 --> 01:33:10,280 Speaker 1: pretty bad. There's a this is a few quotes that 1635 01:33:10,320 --> 01:33:12,000 Speaker 1: I think really kind of tied this together, and then 1636 01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:15,479 Speaker 1: he has some horrible statistics. Um. He says, as many 1637 01:33:15,520 --> 01:33:17,759 Speaker 1: of you know, I've spent time researching and speaking about 1638 01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:20,519 Speaker 1: mass psychosis theory. Most of what I've learned is come 1639 01:33:20,640 --> 01:33:23,840 Speaker 1: from Dr Desmond. Dr Desmond is like the guy who 1640 01:33:24,280 --> 01:33:29,200 Speaker 1: pointed this term um and uh, Malone writes. Desmond realized 1641 01:33:29,280 --> 01:33:32,400 Speaker 1: that this form of mass hypnosis, the madness of crowds, 1642 01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:35,760 Speaker 1: can account for the strange phenomenon of about of the 1643 01:33:35,760 --> 01:33:38,960 Speaker 1: population in the Western world becoming entranched with the noble 1644 01:33:39,080 --> 01:33:42,800 Speaker 1: lies and dominant narrative concerning the safety and effectiveness of 1645 01:33:42,840 --> 01:33:47,600 Speaker 1: the genetic vaccines, and both propagated and enforced by politicians, 1646 01:33:47,840 --> 01:33:52,280 Speaker 1: science bureaucrats, pharmaceutical companies and legacy media. Of course, the 1647 01:33:52,320 --> 01:33:55,519 Speaker 1: obvious examples of massformation is Germany in the thirties and forties. 1648 01:33:55,920 --> 01:33:58,200 Speaker 1: How could the German people, who are highly educated, very 1649 01:33:58,240 --> 01:34:00,960 Speaker 1: liberal in the classic sense west in thinking people, how 1650 01:34:01,000 --> 01:34:02,479 Speaker 1: could they go crazy and do what they did to 1651 01:34:02,520 --> 01:34:04,880 Speaker 1: the Jews? How could this happen to a civilized people. 1652 01:34:05,200 --> 01:34:07,800 Speaker 1: A leader of a mass formation movement will use the 1653 01:34:07,800 --> 01:34:10,280 Speaker 1: platform to continue to pump the group of information to 1654 01:34:10,360 --> 01:34:12,840 Speaker 1: focus on. In the case of COVID nineteen, I like 1655 01:34:12,920 --> 01:34:16,200 Speaker 1: to use the term fear porn. Leaders through mainstream media 1656 01:34:16,200 --> 01:34:19,519 Speaker 1: and government channel and government channels continuously feed the beast 1657 01:34:19,560 --> 01:34:24,080 Speaker 1: with more messaging that further hypnotize their adherents. Studies suggest 1658 01:34:24,240 --> 01:34:29,360 Speaker 1: that mass formation follows a general distribution. People are brainwashed 1659 01:34:29,360 --> 01:34:33,760 Speaker 1: and hypnotized fully doctor and in the group narrative. In 1660 01:34:33,800 --> 01:34:36,960 Speaker 1: the middle are persuaded and may follow if no where 1661 01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:40,519 Speaker 1: the alternatives perceived, and thirty percent will fight the narrative. 1662 01:34:41,000 --> 01:34:43,280 Speaker 1: Those who rebel and fight against the narrative become the 1663 01:34:43,400 --> 01:34:46,600 Speaker 1: enemy of the brainwashed and the primary target of aggression. 1664 01:34:47,720 --> 01:34:51,280 Speaker 1: So that's the way he thinks. That is how which 1665 01:34:51,320 --> 01:34:54,360 Speaker 1: is really it's really subjing Like in terms of how 1666 01:34:55,040 --> 01:34:58,240 Speaker 1: he's building a narrative in his head and specifically building 1667 01:34:58,280 --> 01:35:01,519 Speaker 1: a narrative for other people's heads to to view. Why 1668 01:35:01,560 --> 01:35:04,760 Speaker 1: do I feel distrustful of certain pieces of power but 1669 01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:08,479 Speaker 1: love other pieces of power? Yeah, and it's again like 1670 01:35:08,560 --> 01:35:11,440 Speaker 1: this idea that like well, Germany was liberals there, Germany 1671 01:35:11,439 --> 01:35:14,560 Speaker 1: had an enormous right wing movement, Like it was a 1672 01:35:14,640 --> 01:35:16,800 Speaker 1: hugely conservative country in a lot of ways. It would 1673 01:35:16,800 --> 01:35:19,200 Speaker 1: also had a lot of leftist organizing and a lot 1674 01:35:19,200 --> 01:35:22,000 Speaker 1: of leftists in it, especially after World War One, but 1675 01:35:22,080 --> 01:35:25,080 Speaker 1: like the fry Corps ship, there were these massive, million 1676 01:35:25,280 --> 01:35:28,840 Speaker 1: strong right wing armed street movements that existed for the 1677 01:35:29,040 --> 01:35:32,680 Speaker 1: entirety of the Weimar Republic. Like it's again everything he 1678 01:35:32,720 --> 01:35:36,559 Speaker 1: says is wrong. Yeah, and again it's like the notion 1679 01:35:36,600 --> 01:35:39,880 Speaker 1: that like are fully burnwashed, are in the middle of 1680 01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:42,880 Speaker 1: persuadable fight the narrative, it's like these these people who 1681 01:35:42,920 --> 01:35:46,320 Speaker 1: are upset, these like these specifically conservatives, were obsessed about 1682 01:35:46,320 --> 01:35:48,840 Speaker 1: thinking like I would have fought the Nazis. And because 1683 01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:50,960 Speaker 1: they don't understand how fashions and works and power dynamics, 1684 01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:55,040 Speaker 1: they don't understand how how they're actually getting pulled into 1685 01:35:55,080 --> 01:35:57,640 Speaker 1: the same thing. But they still view themselves as the 1686 01:35:57,680 --> 01:36:01,519 Speaker 1: rebel right. They there's everybody wants to be right. Yeah, 1687 01:36:01,560 --> 01:36:04,680 Speaker 1: like they're still focused on being Yeah, it's absolutely like 1688 01:36:04,720 --> 01:36:07,000 Speaker 1: they're still focused on being the rebel and like we're 1689 01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:09,639 Speaker 1: rebelling against the vaccine that that is just like rebelling 1690 01:36:09,640 --> 01:36:14,320 Speaker 1: aginst the Nazis. And you're like, what, um, so I 1691 01:36:14,360 --> 01:36:17,479 Speaker 1: just want to say about those numbers if they're too 1692 01:36:17,520 --> 01:36:20,160 Speaker 1: completely made up? Yeah, yeah, when when people start throwing 1693 01:36:20,439 --> 01:36:23,439 Speaker 1: even numbers statistic exactly like that, it's because they're lying. Yeah, 1694 01:36:23,439 --> 01:36:31,720 Speaker 1: it's because yeah, yeah, absolutely not. Yeah, that's that's complete nonsense. 1695 01:36:31,800 --> 01:36:37,439 Speaker 1: For one. Yeah, it's so so I get because now, 1696 01:36:37,760 --> 01:36:39,720 Speaker 1: the other thing that happened around this interview, because it 1697 01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:42,280 Speaker 1: didn't give a lot of traction among the right, is 1698 01:36:42,280 --> 01:36:44,879 Speaker 1: that whenever these things gained traction, they also developed conspiracy 1699 01:36:44,920 --> 01:36:47,360 Speaker 1: theories that people are trying to suppress it. Like look 1700 01:36:47,400 --> 01:36:50,360 Speaker 1: at the Google algorithm when you type in certain keywords 1701 01:36:50,439 --> 01:36:52,640 Speaker 1: like I know that the day this was trending, it 1702 01:36:52,680 --> 01:36:56,200 Speaker 1: was like if you google dr Malone, the interviews only 1703 01:36:56,240 --> 01:36:58,479 Speaker 1: like the sixth result, The first one is this YouTube 1704 01:36:58,520 --> 01:37:00,360 Speaker 1: video debunky and like I did this and like no, 1705 01:37:00,680 --> 01:37:03,559 Speaker 1: the first result was the obviously viral video of him 1706 01:37:03,600 --> 01:37:06,280 Speaker 1: saying the thing, Like they just they can take one 1707 01:37:06,320 --> 01:37:09,800 Speaker 1: screenshot that maybe someone made or maybe because of one 1708 01:37:09,800 --> 01:37:12,800 Speaker 1: person's computer algorithm that's what gave them and use this 1709 01:37:12,840 --> 01:37:15,479 Speaker 1: as like evidence that this is the entire system of 1710 01:37:15,479 --> 01:37:17,800 Speaker 1: the Internet suppressing the thing. Like, no, the Internet wants 1711 01:37:17,840 --> 01:37:20,320 Speaker 1: things to go viral. Now, there's certain things where they 1712 01:37:20,360 --> 01:37:22,880 Speaker 1: like trying to shut down the spread of dangerous stuff, 1713 01:37:23,080 --> 01:37:26,400 Speaker 1: but this got very viral. This was not contained in 1714 01:37:26,400 --> 01:37:29,320 Speaker 1: any way, but because of this notion like they're trying 1715 01:37:29,320 --> 01:37:31,160 Speaker 1: to hide it, you know, it plays into their them 1716 01:37:31,200 --> 01:37:33,840 Speaker 1: thinking they're like they're them thinking that they are the 1717 01:37:33,840 --> 01:37:37,280 Speaker 1: rebels or something. And there's also a very practical reason 1718 01:37:37,439 --> 01:37:40,800 Speaker 1: why the people who particularly know that they're lying do this, 1719 01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:44,559 Speaker 1: and it's because all of their success is based on 1720 01:37:44,600 --> 01:37:48,000 Speaker 1: a foundation of the way in which YouTube and Facebook 1721 01:37:48,040 --> 01:37:52,679 Speaker 1: and Twitter algorithmically amplified them and their predecessors, and they 1722 01:37:52,720 --> 01:37:56,160 Speaker 1: know that creating controversy over the fact that they're being 1723 01:37:56,240 --> 01:38:01,080 Speaker 1: suppressed um leads to more content that jin's that basically 1724 01:38:01,280 --> 01:38:04,439 Speaker 1: algorithmically spreads their stuff more because more people are talking 1725 01:38:04,479 --> 01:38:06,920 Speaker 1: about it, because other people's channels start debating it, because 1726 01:38:07,160 --> 01:38:09,200 Speaker 1: idiots on the left are like, well, we should at 1727 01:38:09,240 --> 01:38:11,680 Speaker 1: least have them on platform them because we're anti censorship too, 1728 01:38:11,680 --> 01:38:13,799 Speaker 1: so let's debate them. And like all of this stupid 1729 01:38:13,800 --> 01:38:18,760 Speaker 1: ship feeds into spreading their stuff. It's a very intelligent strategy. Um, 1730 01:38:18,800 --> 01:38:21,559 Speaker 1: I hate it, but just in just in terms of 1731 01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:23,920 Speaker 1: how ridiculous it is. I know, a few days ago, 1732 01:38:24,400 --> 01:38:29,840 Speaker 1: a Congressman Troy Nells said that I submitted the transcript 1733 01:38:29,880 --> 01:38:32,799 Speaker 1: from the Joe Rogan Experience podcast episode with Dr Malone 1734 01:38:32,920 --> 01:38:36,320 Speaker 1: to the Congressional Record. Big tech wants to restrict your access, 1735 01:38:36,400 --> 01:38:39,799 Speaker 1: your access to information, but they cannot censor the Congressional Record. 1736 01:38:40,200 --> 01:38:43,360 Speaker 1: Not tech is the entire reason why you know about 1737 01:38:43,400 --> 01:38:47,360 Speaker 1: these people. Yeah, entirely. So if it were not for 1738 01:38:47,439 --> 01:38:51,479 Speaker 1: big tech, Joe Rogan would be narrating videos of robots fighting. 1739 01:38:52,040 --> 01:38:56,360 Speaker 1: So Jack so Beak got real into this because he 1740 01:38:56,400 --> 01:38:58,960 Speaker 1: loves anything that goes viral. If it weren't for big Tech, 1741 01:38:59,040 --> 01:39:01,519 Speaker 1: Jacks Obak would have died in the ditch of an 1742 01:39:01,520 --> 01:39:05,320 Speaker 1: oxycontent overdose. So he he got real into it. He 1743 01:39:05,400 --> 01:39:08,080 Speaker 1: changed his like he changed his Twitter name to Jack 1744 01:39:08,479 --> 01:39:12,400 Speaker 1: mass Formation, psychosis, psychosa Beck or some bullshit like that. 1745 01:39:14,320 --> 01:39:17,240 Speaker 1: Stupid and it was it was tweeting about a NonStop 1746 01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:19,679 Speaker 1: for a week and like like a kid learning about 1747 01:39:19,680 --> 01:39:22,680 Speaker 1: a new topic because of synchronicity, He's he's gonna like 1748 01:39:22,880 --> 01:39:25,880 Speaker 1: projected onto everything he sees now because like this this 1749 01:39:25,960 --> 01:39:28,759 Speaker 1: new all encompassing topic that makes you avoid what fashions 1750 01:39:28,760 --> 01:39:31,400 Speaker 1: them actually is and then point out at the things 1751 01:39:31,439 --> 01:39:33,360 Speaker 1: you don't like. So of course he's gonna apply to 1752 01:39:33,439 --> 01:39:36,800 Speaker 1: everything he He made a tweet right before January six, 1753 01:39:37,479 --> 01:39:41,599 Speaker 1: um as the anniversary of the Capitol intermpted ku thing. 1754 01:39:42,240 --> 01:39:45,360 Speaker 1: Regime media has launched a propaganda push against Ashley Babbitt 1755 01:39:45,400 --> 01:39:49,400 Speaker 1: today to psychologically prep their flock for the upcoming mass 1756 01:39:49,439 --> 01:39:54,120 Speaker 1: formation event planned for January six this week. This this 1757 01:39:54,200 --> 01:39:58,400 Speaker 1: is called priming and it's a textbook mass formation theory tactic. 1758 01:39:58,840 --> 01:40:03,160 Speaker 1: Wait till you see what of next? And it is 1759 01:40:03,200 --> 01:40:07,240 Speaker 1: the sixth today, has anything? What happened? Not goddamn thing? 1760 01:40:07,400 --> 01:40:12,240 Speaker 1: They got fucking Linn madwell Morenda does sing songs dedts, 1761 01:40:12,240 --> 01:40:15,880 Speaker 1: you got gnel from Miranda? Did you see that? That 1762 01:40:16,000 --> 01:40:18,840 Speaker 1: wasn't He might have said something in the beginning that 1763 01:40:18,880 --> 01:40:21,559 Speaker 1: was due, but the performance has been played before on 1764 01:40:21,640 --> 01:40:24,200 Speaker 1: other things. Well and I am you know what, if 1765 01:40:24,200 --> 01:40:26,360 Speaker 1: we're taught trying to reach across the aisle. I am 1766 01:40:26,439 --> 01:40:30,759 Speaker 1: willing to admit that the popularity of lin Manuel Miranda 1767 01:40:30,880 --> 01:40:38,320 Speaker 1: might be a mass formation psychosis. Absolutely, the popularity of 1768 01:40:38,320 --> 01:40:42,760 Speaker 1: Hamilton's is a massformation psychos its. Absolutely, we're just being assholes. 1769 01:40:42,760 --> 01:40:45,559 Speaker 1: But like, like seriously like it again, but it doesn't 1770 01:40:45,600 --> 01:40:49,160 Speaker 1: it does. The fuck is when it when it comes 1771 01:40:49,200 --> 01:40:52,800 Speaker 1: to again like the fact that he said there's gonna 1772 01:40:52,840 --> 01:40:58,040 Speaker 1: be this whatever psych mass formation psychosis event on the 1773 01:40:58,080 --> 01:41:00,400 Speaker 1: anniversary of January six, then it's going to be huge. 1774 01:41:00,400 --> 01:41:03,800 Speaker 1: Watch for it. Nothing happens, doesn't matter, never matters, will 1775 01:41:03,840 --> 01:41:08,760 Speaker 1: never matter. Um because again, like it's it's I think 1776 01:41:08,760 --> 01:41:10,439 Speaker 1: one of the issues that we have here is the 1777 01:41:10,479 --> 01:41:14,479 Speaker 1: degree to which brain brainwashing and hypnosis and stuff are 1778 01:41:14,479 --> 01:41:16,960 Speaker 1: talked about within kind of discussions of a cultic milieu 1779 01:41:17,200 --> 01:41:20,280 Speaker 1: when they're not really a factor, not a factor in cults, 1780 01:41:19,760 --> 01:41:22,559 Speaker 1: not nearly as much as you think, yea, and not 1781 01:41:22,640 --> 01:41:24,160 Speaker 1: in the way that you think. There's things that like 1782 01:41:24,200 --> 01:41:27,360 Speaker 1: you could call brainwashing, but the the and you could 1783 01:41:27,360 --> 01:41:31,640 Speaker 1: even maybe call hypnosis, although that's a lot murkier. It 1784 01:41:31,760 --> 01:41:34,880 Speaker 1: is a very technical thing. Yeah, But but the what 1785 01:41:35,080 --> 01:41:38,439 Speaker 1: actually like the stuff that's actually happens. Again, it's always 1786 01:41:38,520 --> 01:41:41,160 Speaker 1: much more logical and rational if you can just inhabit 1787 01:41:41,479 --> 01:41:44,799 Speaker 1: the mental space of the people who are in those 1788 01:41:44,840 --> 01:41:47,920 Speaker 1: communities because of what they're primed to believe first and 1789 01:41:47,960 --> 01:41:50,679 Speaker 1: because of what is happening socially, because of the degree 1790 01:41:50,720 --> 01:41:53,480 Speaker 1: to which they isolate themselves from people who are outside 1791 01:41:53,479 --> 01:41:56,559 Speaker 1: of that bubble. Like, that's why it's so hard to 1792 01:41:56,600 --> 01:41:59,360 Speaker 1: get them out. It's not that like magically their brains 1793 01:41:59,360 --> 01:42:02,360 Speaker 1: have been taken over. It's that they have pretty methodically 1794 01:42:02,479 --> 01:42:07,840 Speaker 1: been put into a position where rejecting what is being 1795 01:42:07,920 --> 01:42:12,160 Speaker 1: told to them within this context is immensely more painful, 1796 01:42:12,680 --> 01:42:16,559 Speaker 1: um than just continuing to believe things that are not true. Um. 1797 01:42:16,600 --> 01:42:19,519 Speaker 1: And there are more consequences for it, you know. Um, 1798 01:42:19,600 --> 01:42:22,719 Speaker 1: you lose a support network, you lose a great deal 1799 01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:25,840 Speaker 1: of of of your own opinion of yourself and your 1800 01:42:25,880 --> 01:42:29,360 Speaker 1: self worth if you start to reject this stuff. Um. And, 1801 01:42:29,400 --> 01:42:31,360 Speaker 1: once you can trap people in that, it's the same 1802 01:42:31,400 --> 01:42:35,240 Speaker 1: way that scientology works. Once you can trap people in that, um, 1803 01:42:35,479 --> 01:42:38,200 Speaker 1: it's the evidence of their eyes and the fact that 1804 01:42:38,240 --> 01:42:41,080 Speaker 1: like they're obviously being lied to and the things that 1805 01:42:41,120 --> 01:42:43,160 Speaker 1: they're being told about don't come to pass. It's this. 1806 01:42:43,320 --> 01:42:45,840 Speaker 1: It's the reason why you have a bunch of apocalyptic 1807 01:42:45,880 --> 01:42:47,600 Speaker 1: cults who say the days the world is going to 1808 01:42:47,720 --> 01:42:50,200 Speaker 1: end on this day and time that day and time comes, 1809 01:42:50,240 --> 01:42:54,240 Speaker 1: the world doesn't end, and the cult goes on. You know, yeah, 1810 01:42:54,280 --> 01:42:57,360 Speaker 1: it's pretty it's pretty ridiculous. This, this whole thing was 1811 01:42:57,400 --> 01:43:01,800 Speaker 1: started by this professor of uncle psychology at a at 1812 01:43:01,800 --> 01:43:05,680 Speaker 1: a university in Belgium, Matthias Desmot. He seems to have 1813 01:43:05,760 --> 01:43:10,800 Speaker 1: a pretty bad understanding of history and actual like power structures, 1814 01:43:10,840 --> 01:43:14,360 Speaker 1: and does not know the least bit about fascism um, 1815 01:43:14,400 --> 01:43:16,280 Speaker 1: and has trying to craft this thing to fill in 1816 01:43:16,320 --> 01:43:19,439 Speaker 1: the gaps in his own knowledge and applies it to everything. 1817 01:43:19,680 --> 01:43:22,839 Speaker 1: And I've read some of his stuff. It's it's nonsense. Um. 1818 01:43:23,080 --> 01:43:25,840 Speaker 1: Again that just like the doctors who talked about it, 1819 01:43:25,840 --> 01:43:28,080 Speaker 1: they're like, yeah, he's using this also is a way 1820 01:43:28,120 --> 01:43:30,800 Speaker 1: to explain how COVID is not real and how the 1821 01:43:30,880 --> 01:43:35,360 Speaker 1: vaccine is a is a ploy to do bad thing. 1822 01:43:35,840 --> 01:43:41,800 Speaker 1: It's it's all ridiculous, it's irresponsible, um. And they're using 1823 01:43:41,800 --> 01:43:44,360 Speaker 1: it as a tactic and hopefully it's just gonna blow over, 1824 01:43:44,439 --> 01:43:46,760 Speaker 1: but I'm sure it'll pop up everyone every once in 1825 01:43:46,800 --> 01:43:48,680 Speaker 1: a while again just like it popped up, you know, 1826 01:43:48,880 --> 01:43:52,519 Speaker 1: a few weeks ago. But that's that's really all. I 1827 01:43:52,560 --> 01:43:54,519 Speaker 1: all I want to get into it. I I could 1828 01:43:54,560 --> 01:43:59,240 Speaker 1: say more, but I think we have said enough. Um, 1829 01:43:59,280 --> 01:44:09,320 Speaker 1: all right, all fucket, Yeah, that's it. That's all I've got. 1830 01:44:09,760 --> 01:44:12,919 Speaker 1: UM Read This Way for the Gas Ladies and Gentlemen 1831 01:44:13,000 --> 01:44:19,080 Speaker 1: by Thaddius Borowski. Um. It will. It will have a 1832 01:44:19,240 --> 01:44:21,719 Speaker 1: major impact on the way you see the entire world 1833 01:44:21,800 --> 01:44:25,280 Speaker 1: if you if you actually read it. Um, there's some 1834 01:44:25,360 --> 01:44:27,679 Speaker 1: incredible pieces in there. One of one of the things 1835 01:44:27,720 --> 01:44:30,679 Speaker 1: that the Taddius points out is that like people only 1836 01:44:30,720 --> 01:44:34,879 Speaker 1: ever have like one kind of language for for talking 1837 01:44:34,920 --> 01:44:37,960 Speaker 1: about like the things that they feel, where whether it's 1838 01:44:38,000 --> 01:44:41,880 Speaker 1: something they they kind of vaguely care about or something 1839 01:44:41,880 --> 01:44:44,519 Speaker 1: they care about enough to murder over. And so when 1840 01:44:44,600 --> 01:44:47,600 Speaker 1: people engage in acts of like horrific violence on a 1841 01:44:47,680 --> 01:44:51,120 Speaker 1: mass scale, they often do it looking and acting like 1842 01:44:51,240 --> 01:44:54,719 Speaker 1: they would if they were irritated at somebody in traffic. Um. 1843 01:44:54,760 --> 01:44:57,240 Speaker 1: And it's the most unsettling thing about being the victim 1844 01:44:57,280 --> 01:44:59,920 Speaker 1: of a genocide that you don't see the kind of 1845 01:45:00,040 --> 01:45:02,080 Speaker 1: hate and the kind of rage and the kind of 1846 01:45:02,120 --> 01:45:04,160 Speaker 1: like what you would expect someone would need to be 1847 01:45:04,200 --> 01:45:07,160 Speaker 1: amped up to. It's more of like you see, more 1848 01:45:07,439 --> 01:45:10,920 Speaker 1: like kind of boredom and and irritation and all that 1849 01:45:10,960 --> 01:45:16,879 Speaker 1: stuff like it's not anyway read read read Daddy Sparowski. Um, 1850 01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:21,160 Speaker 1: he's I desperately wish Joe Rogan would just sit and 1851 01:45:21,240 --> 01:45:25,360 Speaker 1: narrate this book on his show, because I do actually 1852 01:45:25,360 --> 01:45:32,720 Speaker 1: a service in the world. Anyway. Um, that's that's the episode. 1853 01:45:37,520 --> 01:45:41,160 Speaker 1: I'm Jake Halbern, host of deep Cover. Our new season 1854 01:45:41,360 --> 01:45:44,200 Speaker 1: is about a lawyer who helped the mob run Chicago. 1855 01:45:44,800 --> 01:45:48,760 Speaker 1: We control of the courts, We controlled absolutely everything. He 1856 01:45:48,880 --> 01:45:51,840 Speaker 1: brobed judges and even helped a hit man walk free, 1857 01:45:52,400 --> 01:45:55,160 Speaker 1: until one day when he started talking with the FBI 1858 01:45:55,640 --> 01:45:58,960 Speaker 1: and promised that he could take the mob down. I've 1859 01:45:59,000 --> 01:46:01,040 Speaker 1: spent the past year trying to figure out why he 1860 01:46:01,120 --> 01:46:04,320 Speaker 1: flipped and what he was really after. From my perspective, 1861 01:46:04,520 --> 01:46:06,640 Speaker 1: Bob was too good to be true. There's got to 1862 01:46:06,640 --> 01:46:09,360 Speaker 1: be something wrong with this. I wouldn't trust the guy. 1863 01:46:09,680 --> 01:46:12,599 Speaker 1: He looks like a little scum, big liar, stool bidgi. 1864 01:46:12,680 --> 01:46:14,960 Speaker 1: He looked like what he was or at. I can 1865 01:46:15,000 --> 01:46:17,559 Speaker 1: say with all certainty I think he's a hero because 1866 01:46:17,560 --> 01:46:19,120 Speaker 1: he didn't have to do what he did, and he 1867 01:46:19,160 --> 01:46:21,599 Speaker 1: did it anyway. The moment I put the wire around 1868 01:46:21,640 --> 01:46:24,840 Speaker 1: the first time, my life was over. If it ever 1869 01:46:24,920 --> 01:46:28,240 Speaker 1: got out, they would kill me in a heartbeat. Listen 1870 01:46:28,280 --> 01:46:31,200 Speaker 1: to deep Cover on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 1871 01:46:31,280 --> 01:46:36,760 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. Adoption of teens from 1872 01:46:36,800 --> 01:46:39,280 Speaker 1: foster care is a topic not enough people know about, 1873 01:46:39,320 --> 01:46:41,600 Speaker 1: and we're here to change that. I'm April didn't what 1874 01:46:41,720 --> 01:46:44,880 Speaker 1: the host of the new podcast Navigating Adoption, presented by 1875 01:46:44,960 --> 01:46:48,679 Speaker 1: adopt us Kids. Each episode brings you compelling, real life 1876 01:46:48,680 --> 01:46:51,200 Speaker 1: adoption stories told by the families that lived them, with 1877 01:46:51,240 --> 01:46:55,919 Speaker 1: commentary from experts. Visit adopt us Kids dot org, slash podcast, 1878 01:46:56,040 --> 01:46:59,439 Speaker 1: or subscribed to Navigating Adoption presented by adopt Us Kids, 1879 01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:01,320 Speaker 1: brought to you by the U S Department of Health 1880 01:47:01,360 --> 01:47:04,200 Speaker 1: and Human Services, Administration for Children and Families, and the 1881 01:47:04,240 --> 01:47:08,240 Speaker 1: ACT Council. This is Roxande Gay, host of The Roxanne 1882 01:47:08,280 --> 01:47:12,320 Speaker 1: Gay Agenda, the bad feminist podcast of Your Dreams. Now, 1883 01:47:12,520 --> 01:47:15,639 Speaker 1: what is the Roxanne Gay Agenda, you might ask, Well, 1884 01:47:15,920 --> 01:47:18,679 Speaker 1: It's a podcast where I'm going to speak my mind 1885 01:47:18,760 --> 01:47:22,040 Speaker 1: about what's on my mind, and that could be anything. 1886 01:47:22,760 --> 01:47:26,360 Speaker 1: Every week, I will be in conversation with an interesting 1887 01:47:26,479 --> 01:47:28,880 Speaker 1: person who has something to say. We're going to talk 1888 01:47:28,880 --> 01:47:33,639 Speaker 1: about feminism, race, writing and books and art, food, pop culture, 1889 01:47:33,840 --> 01:47:38,479 Speaker 1: and yes, politics. I started show with a recommendation. Really, 1890 01:47:38,800 --> 01:47:41,200 Speaker 1: I'm just going to share with you a movie or 1891 01:47:41,240 --> 01:47:44,080 Speaker 1: a book, or maybe some music or a comedy side, 1892 01:47:44,160 --> 01:47:47,000 Speaker 1: something that I really want you to be aware of 1893 01:47:47,040 --> 01:47:50,360 Speaker 1: and maybe engage with as well. Listen to the Luminary 1894 01:47:50,400 --> 01:47:55,240 Speaker 1: original podcast, The Roxanne Gay Agenda, The Bad Feminist Podcast 1895 01:47:55,320 --> 01:47:58,840 Speaker 1: of Your Dreams, every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio app, 1896 01:47:59,080 --> 01:48:11,400 Speaker 1: Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Could it 1897 01:48:11,560 --> 01:48:17,960 Speaker 1: happen here? It maybe? I Robert Evans, host of this podcast, 1898 01:48:18,400 --> 01:48:24,840 Speaker 1: UM to introduce this today's episode, which is not my episode, 1899 01:48:25,000 --> 01:48:31,280 Speaker 1: it's it's Andrew's, uh episode. So, how how are you doing? 1900 01:48:31,320 --> 01:48:35,160 Speaker 1: Andrew Hood In that introduction, I'm good. I think it's 1901 01:48:35,240 --> 01:48:38,720 Speaker 1: um could use some work, but you know we'll shop it. Yeah. 1902 01:48:38,760 --> 01:48:41,080 Speaker 1: We we never workshop anything. We just we just roll 1903 01:48:41,200 --> 01:48:46,559 Speaker 1: right ahead. UM, so abolish that. Abolish introductions, you know, 1904 01:48:46,640 --> 01:48:48,960 Speaker 1: start in the middle. Why don't we just do that now? 1905 01:48:49,320 --> 01:48:52,479 Speaker 1: In media res podcast. Yeah, we'll make every podcast like 1906 01:48:52,560 --> 01:48:55,360 Speaker 1: Finnigan's Wake, where the opening of the podcast is like 1907 01:48:55,439 --> 01:48:58,320 Speaker 1: halfway through a paragraph that the end of the paragraphs 1908 01:48:58,400 --> 01:49:01,040 Speaker 1: or at the end of the episode starts every everything 1909 01:49:01,080 --> 01:49:04,120 Speaker 1: will be a circle. Let's just Sophie. I think that's 1910 01:49:04,160 --> 01:49:08,320 Speaker 1: the new plan. Okay, Okay, Andrews, what do you guys 1911 01:49:08,320 --> 01:49:10,800 Speaker 1: for us today? Right? So today I wanted to talk 1912 01:49:10,800 --> 01:49:19,200 Speaker 1: about bio regions and bioregionalism. It's uh philosophy slash movement, 1913 01:49:19,439 --> 01:49:23,800 Speaker 1: slash way of viewing things. There's a lot. So today 1914 01:49:23,800 --> 01:49:26,840 Speaker 1: we'll be exploring what it is, where it came from, 1915 01:49:26,920 --> 01:49:30,639 Speaker 1: and the role I see it playing in our strides 1916 01:49:30,720 --> 01:49:35,000 Speaker 1: towards anarchy. But first of course we really gets some 1917 01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:39,120 Speaker 1: context bioregionalism. Have any of you heard of it? By 1918 01:49:39,120 --> 01:49:47,000 Speaker 1: the way, I have heard the tournament right right, So 1919 01:49:47,920 --> 01:49:53,400 Speaker 1: it's actually pretty recent, um, all things considered. UM. It 1920 01:49:53,479 --> 01:49:55,920 Speaker 1: was coined as a tomb by a guy named Alan 1921 01:49:56,080 --> 01:49:59,879 Speaker 1: Van new Cook, found of the Institute for Bioregional Research, 1922 01:50:01,880 --> 01:50:04,200 Speaker 1: and as a movement it really gained a lot of 1923 01:50:04,240 --> 01:50:09,000 Speaker 1: popularity in the late nineties seventies in the Ozaks, Appalachia, 1924 01:50:09,200 --> 01:50:13,760 Speaker 1: Hudson River, and San Francisco Bay Area regions. UM. They 1925 01:50:13,760 --> 01:50:19,880 Speaker 1: had a conference in a prairie, interestingly enough, near Kansas City, 1926 01:50:19,960 --> 01:50:24,320 Speaker 1: and they've also had conferences in the Squamish bioregion of 1927 01:50:24,320 --> 01:50:27,320 Speaker 1: British Columbia as well as the Gulf of main By 1928 01:50:27,400 --> 01:50:30,960 Speaker 1: region on the Atlantic. And of course with all these 1929 01:50:30,960 --> 01:50:34,920 Speaker 1: different people coming together sharing all their different ideas talking 1930 01:50:34,960 --> 01:50:38,800 Speaker 1: about cool nature stuff, they developed a sort of a 1931 01:50:38,960 --> 01:50:42,800 Speaker 1: platform which they outline in papers on subjects changing from 1932 01:50:42,840 --> 01:50:49,559 Speaker 1: agriculture to forestry, to arts, economics to community. So while 1933 01:50:49,560 --> 01:50:54,360 Speaker 1: it was a very North American focused movement and philosophy 1934 01:50:54,439 --> 01:50:58,360 Speaker 1: at first, it has also expanded to Europe and Australia 1935 01:50:58,720 --> 01:51:02,639 Speaker 1: and these groups, they hundreds of them all over. UM. 1936 01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:06,720 Speaker 1: They get involved with local ecological work like preservation and restoration, 1937 01:51:06,960 --> 01:51:09,640 Speaker 1: pumic culture or that, and they also form networks so 1938 01:51:09,680 --> 01:51:13,479 Speaker 1: they would link on specific issues like water conservation or 1939 01:51:13,600 --> 01:51:18,840 Speaker 1: organic farming or tree planting. And of course bioreginal groups 1940 01:51:18,880 --> 01:51:21,679 Speaker 1: also get involved in attempts to make communities more self 1941 01:51:21,680 --> 01:51:27,320 Speaker 1: sufficient by mapping and utilizing local assets and well, as 1942 01:51:27,360 --> 01:51:31,479 Speaker 1: you come to see, um, bioregionalism and maps kind of 1943 01:51:31,560 --> 01:51:35,439 Speaker 1: go hand in hand away UM, because it really is 1944 01:51:35,479 --> 01:51:38,559 Speaker 1: about that sort of big picture looking at the earth 1945 01:51:38,680 --> 01:51:43,080 Speaker 1: and the environment and outplace in it. So what is 1946 01:51:43,160 --> 01:51:47,920 Speaker 1: bioregionalism exactly In essence, it's a philosophy based around the 1947 01:51:48,000 --> 01:51:53,759 Speaker 1: organization of political, cultural, and economic systems around naturally defined 1948 01:51:53,800 --> 01:51:59,599 Speaker 1: areas called bioregions. Sort of bioregions. There are areas defined 1949 01:51:59,720 --> 01:52:04,640 Speaker 1: through physical and environmental features, including watershed boundaries, soil and 1950 01:52:04,760 --> 01:52:12,839 Speaker 1: terrain characteristics, flora, fauna, and climate. Bioregionalism also stresses the 1951 01:52:12,840 --> 01:52:16,880 Speaker 1: determination of a bioregion is a cultural phenomenon and emphasizes 1952 01:52:16,960 --> 01:52:24,720 Speaker 1: local populations, local knowledge, and local solutions because humans are 1953 01:52:24,800 --> 01:52:29,920 Speaker 1: actually surprisingly part of nature. Our cultures or settlements they 1954 01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:33,600 Speaker 1: arise from nature, They arise from the characteristics of the 1955 01:52:33,600 --> 01:52:37,160 Speaker 1: bio regions that we inhabit. So I mean that to 1956 01:52:37,160 --> 01:52:40,160 Speaker 1: me is a clear virtualty and bioregionalism and land back. 1957 01:52:40,680 --> 01:52:44,040 Speaker 1: And it also points to me um the fact that 1958 01:52:44,240 --> 01:52:49,719 Speaker 1: while bioregionalism maybe a fairly recent philosophy starsh movement, its 1959 01:52:49,840 --> 01:52:55,200 Speaker 1: roots and the ideas it presents are nothing new, you know, um, 1960 01:52:55,240 --> 01:52:59,400 Speaker 1: I mean bioregionalism posits that, you know, human societies must 1961 01:52:59,439 --> 01:53:02,800 Speaker 1: learn to our bioregions and the connections between them if 1962 01:53:02,800 --> 01:53:05,479 Speaker 1: we have to be ecologically sound. And this was an 1963 01:53:05,479 --> 01:53:08,040 Speaker 1: active is really old news, you know, for the indigenous 1964 01:53:08,040 --> 01:53:11,920 Speaker 1: peoples who have maintained these lands and been stewards of 1965 01:53:11,960 --> 01:53:18,040 Speaker 1: these lands for thousands of years. I think that thinking 1966 01:53:18,240 --> 01:53:22,600 Speaker 1: in a bioregional scale allows us to establish regenerative and 1967 01:53:22,680 --> 01:53:28,519 Speaker 1: circular economies, effectively, restore local ecosystems, restructure our systems using 1968 01:53:28,600 --> 01:53:33,080 Speaker 1: ecological design principles, and of course deepen our cultural connections 1969 01:53:33,120 --> 01:53:38,800 Speaker 1: to the land we inhabit. So that to me really 1970 01:53:38,840 --> 01:53:48,479 Speaker 1: stresses the importance of bioregionalism in our approach to environmental issues. 1971 01:53:50,120 --> 01:53:52,720 Speaker 1: Before I continue, I just wanted to say that for 1972 01:53:52,760 --> 01:53:55,360 Speaker 1: those who want to like visualize, because I know this 1973 01:53:55,479 --> 01:54:00,000 Speaker 1: is a podcast, you can only hear my voice. Um 1974 01:54:00,080 --> 01:54:02,840 Speaker 1: One Earth has a pretty decent map of bio regions 1975 01:54:02,840 --> 01:54:05,439 Speaker 1: on the website, so you could just google bio regions 1976 01:54:06,360 --> 01:54:10,719 Speaker 1: and it should come up. They basically have like five 1977 01:54:11,120 --> 01:54:14,639 Speaker 1: bio regions on their map. And well, according to that map, 1978 01:54:15,479 --> 01:54:20,200 Speaker 1: trend that is part of bioregion Anti NT Stanning for 1979 01:54:20,320 --> 01:54:25,720 Speaker 1: neotropic and E Stanning for East and Turnadas grouped with 1980 01:54:26,439 --> 01:54:33,720 Speaker 1: South America and particularly the Venezuela Guyana's region for obvious 1981 01:54:33,760 --> 01:54:38,880 Speaker 1: reasons being that the Urn coup and other rivers that 1982 01:54:39,000 --> 01:54:43,960 Speaker 1: come from the Amazon flew out to you know, trend 1983 01:54:44,000 --> 01:54:53,560 Speaker 1: ads shows really so clunky segue um. There a couple 1984 01:54:53,600 --> 01:54:58,080 Speaker 1: of different concepts that one might want to keep in 1985 01:54:58,160 --> 01:55:03,400 Speaker 1: mind when a aproaching or attempting to curate a bio 1986 01:55:03,440 --> 01:55:09,840 Speaker 1: regional understanding of the world. Of course, perspective and a 1987 01:55:09,840 --> 01:55:14,880 Speaker 1: bioregional perspective is important, and it's basically one that seeks 1988 01:55:14,920 --> 01:55:20,640 Speaker 1: to ensure that political boundaries match ecological boundaries, highlighting the 1989 01:55:20,840 --> 01:55:24,640 Speaker 1: unique ecology of the bio region, encouraging the consumption of 1990 01:55:24,680 --> 01:55:28,320 Speaker 1: local foods where possible, encouraging the use of local materials 1991 01:55:28,360 --> 01:55:32,360 Speaker 1: where possible, and encouraging the cultivation of needs of plans 1992 01:55:32,400 --> 01:55:36,360 Speaker 1: in the region. I will point out like from now, 1993 01:55:36,600 --> 01:55:39,720 Speaker 1: that's from what I've read about bioregionalism and the talks 1994 01:55:39,720 --> 01:55:44,080 Speaker 1: that I've seen, there are definitely some you know, liberal sensibilities, 1995 01:55:44,160 --> 01:55:49,840 Speaker 1: some capitalist realism um. In the way that some bioregionalists 1996 01:55:49,920 --> 01:55:56,480 Speaker 1: talk about, you know, things like organizing our politics and 1997 01:55:56,560 --> 01:56:02,520 Speaker 1: our states and stuff around by regions. Obviously, you know, 1998 01:56:02,960 --> 01:56:05,640 Speaker 1: they are pushing things pretty far because they do talk 1999 01:56:05,680 --> 01:56:12,680 Speaker 1: about you know, going and really orienting our economy around 2000 01:56:13,840 --> 01:56:17,400 Speaker 1: you know, bio regions and thinking in terms of that. 2001 01:56:17,960 --> 01:56:21,560 Speaker 1: But at the same time, there's still like an almost 2002 01:56:21,560 --> 01:56:24,240 Speaker 1: passive acceptance in some of the readings that I've seen 2003 01:56:24,720 --> 01:56:27,280 Speaker 1: of capitalism. You know, I think that's pretty common in 2004 01:56:27,320 --> 01:56:31,320 Speaker 1: a lot of what I like to call almost radical 2005 01:56:32,240 --> 01:56:35,960 Speaker 1: um ideas and philosophies and stuff. Of course, when I 2006 01:56:36,000 --> 01:56:39,520 Speaker 1: approached these ideas and these philosophies and stuff, I always 2007 01:56:39,560 --> 01:56:44,720 Speaker 1: try to, you know, keep that anarchist analytical freework in 2008 01:56:44,800 --> 01:56:51,640 Speaker 1: my head, understanding that you know, these ideas are still 2009 01:56:51,680 --> 01:56:57,080 Speaker 1: being filtered through an ultimately like Campitus society and capitalist world, 2010 01:56:57,360 --> 01:57:01,520 Speaker 1: and so you're gonna want to try to navigate that 2011 01:57:01,680 --> 01:57:05,440 Speaker 1: and sift that out and really get the nuggets of 2012 01:57:05,480 --> 01:57:10,840 Speaker 1: gold within these ideas. I don't see states um, and 2013 01:57:10,880 --> 01:57:13,120 Speaker 1: I think you would agree with me being the path 2014 01:57:13,480 --> 01:57:18,560 Speaker 1: out of you know, that's a climate catastrophe um. For 2015 01:57:18,600 --> 01:57:21,560 Speaker 1: those who have been reading like you know, Against the 2016 01:57:21,600 --> 01:57:26,320 Speaker 1: Green and you know Griever's work, we know that states 2017 01:57:26,360 --> 01:57:32,760 Speaker 1: have been pretty equalsider from their very inception. So I 2018 01:57:32,800 --> 01:57:35,400 Speaker 1: think that if poogionalism would be effective, I think it 2019 01:57:35,400 --> 01:57:38,360 Speaker 1: would be best if it stayed away from that sort 2020 01:57:38,400 --> 01:57:46,480 Speaker 1: of status um conception they do emphasize localism UM as 2021 01:57:46,520 --> 01:57:50,200 Speaker 1: the political localism, but it's always within the context of 2022 01:57:51,640 --> 01:57:56,440 Speaker 1: was often within the context of like the relationship between 2023 01:57:56,600 --> 01:57:59,800 Speaker 1: the local and the state and that sort of thing 2024 01:58:00,200 --> 01:58:02,840 Speaker 1: almost like a kind of I don't know if I'm 2025 01:58:02,920 --> 01:58:07,520 Speaker 1: using this to him correctly, even like monarchism, does that 2026 01:58:07,560 --> 01:58:10,320 Speaker 1: makes sense some kind was it? Some kind of like 2027 01:58:10,440 --> 01:58:15,720 Speaker 1: municipalist almost something like that, But yeah, yeah, we should 2028 01:58:15,720 --> 01:58:19,600 Speaker 1: probably talk a little bit about like what what monarchism 2029 01:58:19,680 --> 01:58:24,000 Speaker 1: and municipalism are UM, just so people don't get kind 2030 01:58:24,000 --> 01:58:28,400 Speaker 1: of caught up on the terms UM. And particularly I 2031 01:58:28,400 --> 01:58:32,760 Speaker 1: think that like within a context of like the United States, UM, 2032 01:58:32,920 --> 01:58:35,920 Speaker 1: municipalism is kind of an easier way to sell folks 2033 01:58:36,080 --> 01:58:39,640 Speaker 1: who may be more conservative on certain anarchists principles. It's 2034 01:58:39,680 --> 01:58:44,400 Speaker 1: basically the idea of yea strong community sort of control 2035 01:58:44,480 --> 01:58:50,120 Speaker 1: and autonomy UM, as opposed to uh, strong overarching kind 2036 01:58:50,200 --> 01:58:56,160 Speaker 1: of federal or state control over over you know, different communities. Yeah. Yeah, 2037 01:58:56,360 --> 01:58:59,720 Speaker 1: because menarchism is kind of like a weird grab bag thing. 2038 01:59:00,000 --> 01:59:03,160 Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, it's it's it's sort of like, okay, 2039 01:59:03,160 --> 01:59:04,680 Speaker 1: so you want to be in an arco capitalist, but 2040 01:59:04,720 --> 01:59:07,360 Speaker 1: you can't because you're just smart enough to realize that 2041 01:59:07,760 --> 01:59:10,880 Speaker 1: you can't have a right to state. So either the 2042 01:59:10,920 --> 01:59:13,200 Speaker 1: America state is the only thing it does is enforced 2043 01:59:13,240 --> 01:59:18,720 Speaker 1: property rights. And yeah, I think that's a slightly terrifying vision, 2044 01:59:18,840 --> 01:59:22,560 Speaker 1: but I think but you know it's it's yeah, it's 2045 01:59:22,560 --> 01:59:26,560 Speaker 1: a more self away than the average Yeah, but you 2046 01:59:26,560 --> 01:59:31,480 Speaker 1: know this is yeah, and I think that is less 2047 01:59:31,480 --> 01:59:34,560 Speaker 1: of a focus specifically on property rights and more of 2048 01:59:35,120 --> 01:59:38,760 Speaker 1: more based out of an understanding that UM like strong 2049 01:59:39,040 --> 01:59:43,800 Speaker 1: hierarchical federal or even state level control UM generally winds 2050 01:59:43,880 --> 01:59:46,760 Speaker 1: up creating reach a lot of a significant amount of 2051 01:59:46,760 --> 01:59:50,720 Speaker 1: like regional um uh, what's the word I'm looking for, 2052 01:59:51,240 --> 01:59:54,880 Speaker 1: um inequalities UM and and is responsible for a lot 2053 01:59:54,920 --> 01:59:57,840 Speaker 1: of like ecological devastation and whatnot. This idea that you 2054 01:59:57,880 --> 02:00:00,280 Speaker 1: can have like like one of the things that you 2055 02:00:00,280 --> 02:00:02,600 Speaker 1: would have with an actual municipalist system, as you wouldn't 2056 02:00:02,600 --> 02:00:05,840 Speaker 1: be allowed to operate a company like Coke Industries that's 2057 02:00:05,840 --> 02:00:08,920 Speaker 1: able to UM, you know, be based out of I 2058 02:00:08,960 --> 02:00:13,040 Speaker 1: think Kentucky, UM, but operate a series of refineries in 2059 02:00:13,120 --> 02:00:17,040 Speaker 1: the Gulf Coast that render large sections of that area 2060 02:00:17,080 --> 02:00:21,080 Speaker 1: uninhabitable because you would leave kind of control over what 2061 02:00:21,160 --> 02:00:22,960 Speaker 1: can be actually done in that area to the people 2062 02:00:22,960 --> 02:00:25,680 Speaker 1: who live there, rather than being able to have UM 2063 02:00:25,720 --> 02:00:28,000 Speaker 1: a corporation by land there and have its right to 2064 02:00:28,320 --> 02:00:30,840 Speaker 1: pollute enforced by the state. Right, that's kind of like 2065 02:00:30,880 --> 02:00:34,760 Speaker 1: one little example. UM, there's municipalists. The system in northeast 2066 02:00:34,760 --> 02:00:37,880 Speaker 1: Syria and Rojava is is sort of a municipalist system 2067 02:00:37,880 --> 02:00:41,240 Speaker 1: and one of the specifically libertarian. Yeah, I mean there's 2068 02:00:41,240 --> 02:00:46,840 Speaker 1: an distinction between like, well generally and m yeah, we're 2069 02:00:46,840 --> 02:00:48,760 Speaker 1: we're getting into the weeds a little bit here, but 2070 02:00:48,800 --> 02:00:50,960 Speaker 1: these are these are like that's kind of the basics 2071 02:00:50,960 --> 02:00:52,720 Speaker 1: of what those terms mean. Just so that people don't 2072 02:00:52,720 --> 02:00:54,960 Speaker 1: get lost when you when you bring them up, because 2073 02:00:54,960 --> 02:00:57,880 Speaker 1: I think a lot of folks, UM, you know, don't 2074 02:00:59,360 --> 02:01:02,760 Speaker 1: have necessary early that kind of those definitions don't just 2075 02:01:02,800 --> 02:01:04,560 Speaker 1: pop up in their head when you use that word, 2076 02:01:05,640 --> 02:01:09,120 Speaker 1: right right, yeah, fair enough. UM. I also mentioned that 2077 02:01:09,640 --> 02:01:14,280 Speaker 1: states have been ecosidal from the inception, so I feel 2078 02:01:14,280 --> 02:01:16,920 Speaker 1: like I should probably trying to find that as well. 2079 02:01:17,640 --> 02:01:25,080 Speaker 1: UM equal side and ecosidal is UM is basically UM 2080 02:01:25,160 --> 02:01:29,080 Speaker 1: this idea that came out to the environmentalist movement, UM 2081 02:01:29,240 --> 02:01:32,800 Speaker 1: meanttive points to the survey harm to nature, the mass 2082 02:01:32,840 --> 02:01:37,320 Speaker 1: damage and destruction of ecosystems that's you know, caused over 2083 02:01:37,400 --> 02:01:41,720 Speaker 1: decades by you know these companies and really buy the 2084 02:01:41,800 --> 02:01:46,120 Speaker 1: system as a whole. So it's often viewed through like 2085 02:01:46,160 --> 02:01:50,440 Speaker 1: a legal lens, as in, you know, these um companies 2086 02:01:50,440 --> 02:01:56,480 Speaker 1: should be tried for their crimes um and as like 2087 02:01:56,640 --> 02:01:59,320 Speaker 1: for committing equal side and that kind of thing, because 2088 02:01:59,440 --> 02:02:02,760 Speaker 1: it's off then view like as like illegal like lower 2089 02:02:02,760 --> 02:02:04,880 Speaker 1: Street put in police to classify equal side as a 2090 02:02:04,920 --> 02:02:07,240 Speaker 1: crime and that sort of thing. Um only a few 2091 02:02:08,120 --> 02:02:11,920 Speaker 1: countries have done that, like actually quotified eco side, but 2092 02:02:12,360 --> 02:02:17,200 Speaker 1: it is something that um so environmentalists pushed, you know, 2093 02:02:17,240 --> 02:02:22,400 Speaker 1: really raise awareness as a crime against humanity and the planet. Yeah, 2094 02:02:22,400 --> 02:02:24,120 Speaker 1: I think it's also kind of important to understand with 2095 02:02:24,160 --> 02:02:27,320 Speaker 1: equal Side is that like there's a lot of focus 2096 02:02:27,400 --> 02:02:31,160 Speaker 1: I think in like left like in fronmutal movements just 2097 02:02:31,160 --> 02:02:33,880 Speaker 1: purely incorporations and even if you go back to the 2098 02:02:34,560 --> 02:02:37,320 Speaker 1: companies memes like Hunter companies destroying the planets like well yeah, 2099 02:02:37,360 --> 02:02:40,120 Speaker 1: like like half of the merse they don't. Yeah, and 2100 02:02:40,160 --> 02:02:42,520 Speaker 1: so you know, yeah, this this is something like like 2101 02:02:42,520 --> 02:02:44,080 Speaker 1: with equal Side, it's like yeah, it's like it's not 2102 02:02:44,200 --> 02:02:46,800 Speaker 1: just corporations that do this. It's you know, it's it's 2103 02:02:46,840 --> 02:02:48,840 Speaker 1: the the state as a structure. It's the state as 2104 02:02:48,840 --> 02:02:52,080 Speaker 1: the institution. Is the state as exactly, Yes, their agencies 2105 02:02:52,160 --> 02:02:54,720 Speaker 1: is there sort of And that's that's what I try 2106 02:02:54,800 --> 02:02:58,200 Speaker 1: to Like, what I realized is it's kind of important. Known. 2107 02:02:58,280 --> 02:03:01,360 Speaker 1: I guess this is kind of like slowly like shifting 2108 02:03:01,360 --> 02:03:06,680 Speaker 1: away from birationalism, but that's fine. Um. What I will 2109 02:03:06,720 --> 02:03:11,320 Speaker 1: say that I've tried to like consciously, um sort of 2110 02:03:11,400 --> 02:03:16,560 Speaker 1: put into practice is emphasizing that, like capitalism is not 2111 02:03:16,640 --> 02:03:21,840 Speaker 1: the only issue, you know. Um, Like I those people 2112 02:03:21,880 --> 02:03:24,200 Speaker 1: like try to separate capitalism on the state, as if 2113 02:03:24,200 --> 02:03:27,920 Speaker 1: they could ever truly be separated. Even people who understand 2114 02:03:28,400 --> 02:03:33,520 Speaker 1: that you know, acro capitalists misguided and that you know, 2115 02:03:33,560 --> 02:03:37,080 Speaker 1: the state is necessary to maintain capitalism. There's some sort 2116 02:03:37,120 --> 02:03:41,320 Speaker 1: of like disconnect where there's like a whole ton of 2117 02:03:41,400 --> 02:03:46,800 Speaker 1: you know, organization and meaning and all that about capitalism. 2118 02:03:46,960 --> 02:03:51,680 Speaker 1: And you know, oftentimes these sort of efforts are like 2119 02:03:51,960 --> 02:03:54,880 Speaker 1: particularly reformist types and unions and stuff. They try to 2120 02:03:55,320 --> 02:04:01,120 Speaker 1: mediate with capitalism through the state, you know, through the government, 2121 02:04:01,200 --> 02:04:04,480 Speaker 1: look re local government or federal government, whatever the case in. 2122 02:04:05,400 --> 02:04:09,680 Speaker 1: And what I really try to emphasize is that it's 2123 02:04:09,720 --> 02:04:12,800 Speaker 1: not enough to have like a theory of capitalism. I 2124 02:04:12,800 --> 02:04:16,160 Speaker 1: think it's even more important to have a theory of 2125 02:04:16,240 --> 02:04:19,640 Speaker 1: hierarchy because I think it avoids it helps to avoid 2126 02:04:19,680 --> 02:04:23,800 Speaker 1: getting into these sort of traps of like um well, 2127 02:04:23,800 --> 02:04:30,360 Speaker 1: class reductionism for one, but also like recreating certain structures 2128 02:04:30,360 --> 02:04:35,240 Speaker 1: within your organizations and in your efforts to change things, 2129 02:04:35,520 --> 02:04:41,960 Speaker 1: recreating the very you know, circumstances you're fighting against. You 2130 02:04:42,080 --> 02:04:48,280 Speaker 1: can't like condense everything into one problem, because try as 2131 02:04:48,280 --> 02:04:51,440 Speaker 1: we might, it's not that everything is one problem. It's 2132 02:04:51,440 --> 02:04:56,720 Speaker 1: an interconnected mesh that binds all of our problems together. 2133 02:04:57,360 --> 02:04:59,840 Speaker 1: And you can focus on, you know, really big extensions 2134 02:04:59,840 --> 02:05:02,000 Speaker 1: of that mesh, but it still is kind of just 2135 02:05:02,120 --> 02:05:05,520 Speaker 1: the mesh, and the mesh isn't the thing, but it 2136 02:05:05,560 --> 02:05:09,520 Speaker 1: connects to the edges of all of the things. And yeah, 2137 02:05:09,600 --> 02:05:13,800 Speaker 1: that type of ecology can be useful and even even 2138 02:05:13,840 --> 02:05:18,520 Speaker 1: relating to bioregions in terms of how they also connect 2139 02:05:18,520 --> 02:05:24,760 Speaker 1: with other territories and entities. I think it also you 2140 02:05:24,800 --> 02:05:26,880 Speaker 1: know it this is one of the sort of problems 2141 02:05:27,320 --> 02:05:30,400 Speaker 1: that you have if you know it's like, okay, so 2142 02:05:30,440 --> 02:05:32,680 Speaker 1: your plans it takes sort of sovereign state power. It's like, well, 2143 02:05:32,720 --> 02:05:34,120 Speaker 1: you do it right, But I mean the thing is 2144 02:05:34,160 --> 02:05:35,880 Speaker 1: if if you if you you know, you seeze control 2145 02:05:35,880 --> 02:05:38,040 Speaker 1: of power of a state, right, your borders are essentially 2146 02:05:38,080 --> 02:05:42,600 Speaker 1: just like where the state's war machine ran out of steam. 2147 02:05:42,680 --> 02:05:44,760 Speaker 1: And you know, and this this becomes a normal's problem 2148 02:05:44,800 --> 02:05:46,800 Speaker 1: because like I mean, if if you look at the 2149 02:05:46,800 --> 02:05:49,960 Speaker 1: bioregional maps, right, it's like there's there's literally no way 2150 02:05:50,000 --> 02:05:54,120 Speaker 1: you could ever have states with these borders, because yeah, 2151 02:05:54,440 --> 02:05:56,240 Speaker 1: it's not like this, it's it's it's impossible, like you 2152 02:05:56,720 --> 02:05:59,200 Speaker 1: you cannot do it. And you know what that means 2153 02:05:59,200 --> 02:06:01,720 Speaker 1: is that states are sort of necessarily going wee, they're 2154 02:06:01,720 --> 02:06:03,280 Speaker 1: either going to be like a small fraction of a 2155 02:06:03,320 --> 02:06:07,200 Speaker 1: bioregion or they have multiple in them. And that's another 2156 02:06:07,240 --> 02:06:09,400 Speaker 1: sort of that becomes a sort of logistical problem because 2157 02:06:10,000 --> 02:06:11,200 Speaker 1: you know, like if you want to look at like 2158 02:06:11,240 --> 02:06:16,000 Speaker 1: a lot of the worst sort of ecological sort of 2159 02:06:16,040 --> 02:06:19,200 Speaker 1: like human disasters, it's when you get states attempting to 2160 02:06:19,200 --> 02:06:26,320 Speaker 1: apply like state environmental issues. Yeah, yeah, it's more certifically 2161 02:06:26,320 --> 02:06:28,040 Speaker 1: like it it's it's you know, they have something that 2162 02:06:28,120 --> 02:06:30,320 Speaker 1: like sort of works in one test environment, and then 2163 02:06:30,320 --> 02:06:32,920 Speaker 1: they broadly apply it across you know, an enormous sort 2164 02:06:32,960 --> 02:06:35,720 Speaker 1: of variety of areas and reasons to have their own 2165 02:06:35,760 --> 02:06:38,200 Speaker 1: biospheres and have their own and that stuff. That's like 2166 02:06:38,240 --> 02:06:40,040 Speaker 1: that's like the fastest way to kill an enormous number 2167 02:06:40,080 --> 02:06:45,000 Speaker 1: of people. Yeah, just like it's like forcing a jigsaw 2168 02:06:45,080 --> 02:06:48,120 Speaker 1: piece that obviously doesn't fit into a spot where you 2169 02:06:48,240 --> 02:06:51,960 Speaker 1: wanted to, but you're just breaking the pieces. I want 2170 02:06:51,960 --> 02:06:54,000 Speaker 1: to say as well, that like that sort of I mean, 2171 02:06:54,000 --> 02:06:57,240 Speaker 1: at least the state's attesting it, right, Um. I remember 2172 02:06:57,280 --> 02:07:00,200 Speaker 1: I kind of remember the exact name of like the 2173 02:07:00,200 --> 02:07:03,600 Speaker 1: the sort of like ideology or whatever. I think it 2174 02:07:03,680 --> 02:07:06,480 Speaker 1: was like this Elie Soviet Unian probably one of your name, 2175 02:07:06,800 --> 02:07:10,160 Speaker 1: This Elie Soviet Union in practice related to like farming 2176 02:07:10,640 --> 02:07:15,000 Speaker 1: that they just applied over like a vast vast region 2177 02:07:15,120 --> 02:07:19,000 Speaker 1: end up with like a huge decrease in like food production. 2178 02:07:19,080 --> 02:07:24,160 Speaker 1: I can't remember the name of it. Senku Oh, Yeah, yeah, 2179 02:07:24,160 --> 02:07:26,400 Speaker 1: it just had this he had this theory and it's 2180 02:07:26,440 --> 02:07:31,240 Speaker 1: just like pushing it and yeah, it led to some 2181 02:07:31,360 --> 02:07:34,360 Speaker 1: serious issues. Yeah, and I think you know, if we're 2182 02:07:34,360 --> 02:07:37,200 Speaker 1: gonna have like what's important about sort of birationalism, it's 2183 02:07:37,720 --> 02:07:42,600 Speaker 1: you have to have if you're going to implement anything right. 2184 02:07:42,640 --> 02:07:44,800 Speaker 1: You know, it's especially when you're trying to sort of 2185 02:07:44,800 --> 02:07:47,400 Speaker 1: manipulate biospheres, you're trying to preserve a biosphears you have 2186 02:07:47,480 --> 02:07:49,480 Speaker 1: to have local knowledge from the people who have been 2187 02:07:49,480 --> 02:07:51,960 Speaker 1: living in these biospheres for you know, enormous amounts of time. 2188 02:07:52,800 --> 02:07:56,760 Speaker 1: And that's something that states are really bad at and 2189 02:07:56,960 --> 02:07:58,840 Speaker 1: you know, tend to actively suppress and it's something you know, 2190 02:07:58,840 --> 02:08:00,920 Speaker 1: and I almost said this, there's there's a kind of 2191 02:08:00,960 --> 02:08:03,760 Speaker 1: like there's like a kind of neoliberal version of this stuff. 2192 02:08:03,760 --> 02:08:05,480 Speaker 1: Fe It's like, oh, well do you know who will 2193 02:08:05,520 --> 02:08:07,920 Speaker 1: have like local knowledge blah blah blah. And then they're like, well, 2194 02:08:07,760 --> 02:08:11,360 Speaker 1: well we'll have local knowledge, but they that this will 2195 02:08:11,400 --> 02:08:13,120 Speaker 1: help them create market solutions to things. It's like that 2196 02:08:13,160 --> 02:08:19,440 Speaker 1: also doesn't work, and it's basically just motized Like yeah, 2197 02:08:19,680 --> 02:08:27,040 Speaker 1: but because that I really like sits letson sits well 2198 02:08:27,080 --> 02:08:30,600 Speaker 1: with me. You know, like these sort of like see 2199 02:08:30,640 --> 02:08:32,560 Speaker 1: that you see a lot of liberals like doing it 2200 02:08:32,640 --> 02:08:35,160 Speaker 1: a lot of these days where they'll be like doing 2201 02:08:35,160 --> 02:08:38,040 Speaker 1: the whole land acknowledge one's thing and they'll be doing 2202 02:08:38,040 --> 02:08:41,840 Speaker 1: the that thing where they would just like say that 2203 02:08:41,880 --> 02:08:45,080 Speaker 1: oh this is from so and sue culture and whatever, 2204 02:08:45,160 --> 02:08:49,560 Speaker 1: and then just like boom and then carry yeah, carry 2205 02:08:49,640 --> 02:08:52,240 Speaker 1: on with business as usual. Yeah, which is I learned 2206 02:08:52,280 --> 02:08:55,680 Speaker 1: this technique from so and so tried, no, let me 2207 02:08:56,200 --> 02:09:02,160 Speaker 1: work as a consultant for your company. Yeah thing, yeah, yeah, 2208 02:09:02,200 --> 02:09:05,480 Speaker 1: it's it's come out. It's commodifying the thing, and that 2209 02:09:06,080 --> 02:09:12,160 Speaker 1: that both produces a warped replication and then it also 2210 02:09:12,280 --> 02:09:17,120 Speaker 1: kind of makes the original thing seem like used in 2211 02:09:17,200 --> 02:09:20,760 Speaker 1: a weird way as well, like it wasn't designed. Yeah. Yeah, 2212 02:09:22,040 --> 02:09:26,520 Speaker 1: I once reminded a bit of alienation and how we 2213 02:09:26,600 --> 02:09:30,800 Speaker 1: are just sort of separated from, you know, aspects of 2214 02:09:30,840 --> 02:09:35,320 Speaker 1: our actual humanity because of the structures we live under. Right, 2215 02:09:35,400 --> 02:09:41,600 Speaker 1: So instead of relating with the environment, or relating with 2216 02:09:41,920 --> 02:09:45,520 Speaker 1: our culture, or relating to other people, we're just relating 2217 02:09:45,640 --> 02:09:50,320 Speaker 1: through like these commodities and these products and these you know, 2218 02:09:51,520 --> 02:09:57,760 Speaker 1: just bastardized versions of things. And I think that is 2219 02:09:57,800 --> 02:10:03,840 Speaker 1: also something that sort of leagues like some environmentalists in 2220 02:10:03,960 --> 02:10:07,360 Speaker 1: terms of there's there's there's almost like this subtle ill 2221 02:10:07,440 --> 02:10:12,640 Speaker 1: nation from the nature that um many of them seek 2222 02:10:12,720 --> 02:10:17,720 Speaker 1: to preserve, right where on the one hand, yes, you're 2223 02:10:17,760 --> 02:10:21,560 Speaker 1: trying to you know, preserve it and protect it and 2224 02:10:21,840 --> 02:10:25,440 Speaker 1: as commendable brand. The other hand, the way you're going 2225 02:10:25,480 --> 02:10:32,000 Speaker 1: about it is basically like anti tactical to those schools 2226 02:10:32,520 --> 02:10:36,840 Speaker 1: because you don't have that connection with the nature that 2227 02:10:36,960 --> 02:10:40,240 Speaker 1: you're trying to help. You know, what it seems like 2228 02:10:40,360 --> 02:10:42,480 Speaker 1: a lot of people not recognizing is that you know, 2229 02:10:42,600 --> 02:10:48,920 Speaker 1: humans are apart nature, right, and this is another bioregional concept, right, 2230 02:10:49,400 --> 02:10:54,600 Speaker 1: this thing called bioregional reinhabitation in it in being that um, 2231 02:10:55,880 --> 02:10:59,800 Speaker 1: meaning that we must come home to the geographical and 2232 02:11:00,120 --> 02:11:05,680 Speaker 1: physicalter and reinhabit, understand its ecological uniqueness and familiarize ourselves 2233 02:11:05,760 --> 02:11:08,520 Speaker 1: with the stories woven into the fabric of said land. 2234 02:11:08,920 --> 02:11:11,920 Speaker 1: It's history, it's people with its cultures, it's flora, it's fauna. 2235 02:11:12,360 --> 02:11:14,760 Speaker 1: You know. It's only once we come home to the 2236 02:11:14,840 --> 02:11:17,760 Speaker 1: our byo regions and to our ecosystems, to all places, 2237 02:11:18,320 --> 02:11:22,160 Speaker 1: that we can really work together to see its potential, 2238 02:11:22,520 --> 02:11:27,560 Speaker 1: to see how we fit into it, how we can 2239 02:11:27,680 --> 02:11:33,200 Speaker 1: facilitate its healing, you know, bio region by bio region. Yeah, 2240 02:11:33,360 --> 02:11:37,960 Speaker 1: that definitely mirrors stuff I've been working on relating to 2241 02:11:38,960 --> 02:11:41,280 Speaker 1: that type of like cognitive dissonance that you're talking about. 2242 02:11:41,320 --> 02:11:45,800 Speaker 1: And that alienation not just from like human to human, 2243 02:11:45,920 --> 02:11:48,960 Speaker 1: but human to human to place, because yeah, we have 2244 02:11:49,120 --> 02:11:53,360 Speaker 1: like developed this like this commodified other version of nature 2245 02:11:53,480 --> 02:11:56,520 Speaker 1: that isn't actually what nature is. Um it's it's it's 2246 02:11:56,560 --> 02:11:59,440 Speaker 1: we formed this thing that is separate from us, which 2247 02:11:59,560 --> 02:12:02,680 Speaker 1: is not how we need to think about it, because 2248 02:12:03,040 --> 02:12:05,440 Speaker 1: it should be. We are all part of the same 2249 02:12:06,240 --> 02:12:08,920 Speaker 1: of of of that same system. We are not separate 2250 02:12:09,000 --> 02:12:11,320 Speaker 1: from it, and we're not isolated from it or its effects. 2251 02:12:11,640 --> 02:12:13,520 Speaker 1: We are just another part of it. So it's about 2252 02:12:14,480 --> 02:12:19,320 Speaker 1: getting in like getting a sense of ecology with both 2253 02:12:19,480 --> 02:12:22,600 Speaker 1: your bioregion and then the biosphere as as as a whole, 2254 02:12:22,960 --> 02:12:25,360 Speaker 1: and getting that ecology which kind of will break down 2255 02:12:25,920 --> 02:12:29,440 Speaker 1: this notion of nature being an other. And and I 2256 02:12:29,520 --> 02:12:32,360 Speaker 1: think because of the idea of nature being another that 2257 02:12:32,520 --> 02:12:36,880 Speaker 1: really kind of fosters our extraction that's led to our 2258 02:12:37,480 --> 02:12:41,000 Speaker 1: current problems because we don't use problems affecting us. We 2259 02:12:41,120 --> 02:12:43,560 Speaker 1: give them as a practice as affecting the territory. And 2260 02:12:43,640 --> 02:12:45,480 Speaker 1: if we're if we're not the territory, then we can 2261 02:12:45,520 --> 02:12:52,320 Speaker 1: be safe. But that's not Sorry, go on, I think 2262 02:12:52,360 --> 02:12:53,560 Speaker 1: I think I may have talked about this on the 2263 02:12:53,600 --> 02:12:56,800 Speaker 1: show before but you know that there's another aspect here, 2264 02:12:56,840 --> 02:12:59,720 Speaker 1: which is that viewing humans is sort of like separate 2265 02:12:59,800 --> 02:13:02,360 Speaker 1: from like this abstract nature is how you get a 2266 02:13:02,400 --> 02:13:07,160 Speaker 1: lot of really bad like racist environmentalism. Like if you 2267 02:13:07,200 --> 02:13:10,320 Speaker 1: haven't read The Trouble with y by, yeah Coroning, the 2268 02:13:10,360 --> 02:13:11,960 Speaker 1: Trouble with Wilderness is one of the things that like 2269 02:13:12,200 --> 02:13:15,720 Speaker 1: if you study, yeah, if if you do environmental studies 2270 02:13:15,800 --> 02:13:17,520 Speaker 1: at all, like this is one of the first things 2271 02:13:17,560 --> 02:13:18,800 Speaker 1: they hand you. And the reason they hand it to 2272 02:13:18,880 --> 02:13:22,480 Speaker 1: you is because it you know, so the the the 2273 02:13:22,600 --> 02:13:24,600 Speaker 1: image of wilderness that we have is sort of like, oh, 2274 02:13:24,680 --> 02:13:27,320 Speaker 1: it's just like completely untapped thing, and it's like, well, yeah, okay. 2275 02:13:27,360 --> 02:13:29,680 Speaker 1: So the reason the reason we have this image of 2276 02:13:29,800 --> 02:13:32,160 Speaker 1: like a wilderness with nothing in it is because there 2277 02:13:32,240 --> 02:13:33,600 Speaker 1: used to be people there and we killed them all 2278 02:13:34,360 --> 02:13:41,240 Speaker 1: or fortunately imported them. Yeah yeah, yeah, and it's it's wilderness. 2279 02:13:41,840 --> 02:13:45,360 Speaker 1: And yeah it was for us literally planted and called 2280 02:13:46,160 --> 02:13:50,440 Speaker 1: those forests were I think even more pointedly, you should 2281 02:13:50,840 --> 02:13:52,840 Speaker 1: it should be stated those forests were a work of 2282 02:13:53,000 --> 02:13:56,400 Speaker 1: engineering that's on par with the pyramids at Giza, if 2283 02:13:56,480 --> 02:14:00,120 Speaker 1: not like absolutely massively in excess of it there, they 2284 02:14:00,160 --> 02:14:03,600 Speaker 1: are a work of engineering that's every bit as impressive 2285 02:14:03,720 --> 02:14:06,000 Speaker 1: as any city ever built. Um and everything is like 2286 02:14:06,120 --> 02:14:10,000 Speaker 1: intense and required as much knowledge and scientific understanding. People 2287 02:14:10,160 --> 02:14:12,520 Speaker 1: just all we had, all of those people had died 2288 02:14:12,880 --> 02:14:16,000 Speaker 1: by the time white folks really because of the spread 2289 02:14:16,000 --> 02:14:18,720 Speaker 1: of disease or just because of act Like yeah, like 2290 02:14:18,800 --> 02:14:20,680 Speaker 1: I think that's true. Definitely the East coast with the 2291 02:14:20,720 --> 02:14:22,640 Speaker 1: West Coast, I think it's even grimmer because the West 2292 02:14:22,680 --> 02:14:25,240 Speaker 1: Coast you and this this happened, you still see this 2293 02:14:25,320 --> 02:14:28,360 Speaker 1: where like a lot of like theiricannational parks were literally 2294 02:14:28,480 --> 02:14:32,040 Speaker 1: like like people would go and ethnically cleanse the population 2295 02:14:32,240 --> 02:14:34,680 Speaker 1: that was there and then be like, oh hey look 2296 02:14:34,760 --> 02:14:36,440 Speaker 1: it's it's now wilderness. This is now and this this 2297 02:14:36,600 --> 02:14:38,880 Speaker 1: is like the origin of the environmental movement. It's all 2298 02:14:38,960 --> 02:14:43,280 Speaker 1: of these like just like the most racist people you've 2299 02:14:43,320 --> 02:14:48,240 Speaker 1: ever seen in your life, like people yeah, well and 2300 02:14:48,360 --> 02:14:50,600 Speaker 1: even even even before them, like in you know, like 2301 02:14:50,640 --> 02:14:57,360 Speaker 1: like early hundreds, like people like those guys. Yeah. Yeah, 2302 02:14:57,400 --> 02:14:59,000 Speaker 1: it's like like when when when those guys are talking 2303 02:14:59,000 --> 02:15:02,520 Speaker 1: about like the purity of the field, like they're everything 2304 02:15:02,600 --> 02:15:04,560 Speaker 1: they think about the wilderness is also just about the 2305 02:15:04,600 --> 02:15:07,240 Speaker 1: purity of the white race, and it's it's yeah, and 2306 02:15:07,520 --> 02:15:09,320 Speaker 1: if if if when you when when you start making 2307 02:15:09,360 --> 02:15:11,640 Speaker 1: that this like that's the separation between teams in nature, 2308 02:15:11,720 --> 02:15:15,200 Speaker 1: Like that's that's how you get this, Like that's how 2309 02:15:15,240 --> 02:15:18,200 Speaker 1: that's how you get these you know, ethnic cleansing like 2310 02:15:18,400 --> 02:15:22,720 Speaker 1: genocide forests. I've been reading this very good book, just 2311 02:15:22,800 --> 02:15:24,360 Speaker 1: started last night, and I think we're gonna have the 2312 02:15:24,360 --> 02:15:27,240 Speaker 1: author on the show soon. Chris Begley. He's an underwater 2313 02:15:27,360 --> 02:15:30,040 Speaker 1: archaeologist and he wrote a book called The Next Apocalypse 2314 02:15:30,080 --> 02:15:34,400 Speaker 1: that's about collapses throughout history and how they actually differ 2315 02:15:34,520 --> 02:15:36,800 Speaker 1: from the popular conceptions of them. And he actually talks 2316 02:15:36,800 --> 02:15:38,160 Speaker 1: about a lot of the stuff we talk about in 2317 02:15:38,240 --> 02:15:40,840 Speaker 1: this show UM. And one of the points he makes 2318 02:15:40,960 --> 02:15:44,960 Speaker 1: is that this idea of like lost cities in dark 2319 02:15:45,080 --> 02:15:48,840 Speaker 1: jungles and whatnotum is based entirely on misconceptions first of 2320 02:15:48,880 --> 02:15:51,840 Speaker 1: all about like what jungles are, and then second on 2321 02:15:52,000 --> 02:15:56,040 Speaker 1: like these these very eurocentric ideas towards what lost means. 2322 02:15:56,120 --> 02:15:57,800 Speaker 1: Like he points out that every time there's been a 2323 02:15:57,960 --> 02:16:01,720 Speaker 1: lost city or civilization discover, it's because archaeologists just like 2324 02:16:01,840 --> 02:16:04,040 Speaker 1: asked the people living there where the ruins were in there, 2325 02:16:04,040 --> 02:16:05,520 Speaker 1: Like oh yeah, it's like right over there, like we 2326 02:16:05,640 --> 02:16:07,840 Speaker 1: we've known about this since forever. It was never lost, 2327 02:16:07,960 --> 02:16:10,680 Speaker 1: we just stopped living in that specific area. And the 2328 02:16:10,720 --> 02:16:13,320 Speaker 1: other thing he points out is that like this idea 2329 02:16:13,440 --> 02:16:16,320 Speaker 1: of a jungle as like a difficult and primeval place 2330 02:16:16,400 --> 02:16:18,400 Speaker 1: is ridiculous. If you had to pick anywhere to be 2331 02:16:18,480 --> 02:16:21,400 Speaker 1: stranded in the world of in terms of bioregions, you 2332 02:16:21,440 --> 02:16:24,040 Speaker 1: would pick a jungle like the Amazon, because it's pretty 2333 02:16:24,080 --> 02:16:26,200 Speaker 1: easy to survive there. That's why people live there for 2334 02:16:26,320 --> 02:16:30,480 Speaker 1: so long. Yeah, there's a ton of the Amazons. You know, 2335 02:16:31,040 --> 02:16:33,920 Speaker 1: as we've discovered, you know, there were cities and stuff 2336 02:16:33,959 --> 02:16:36,560 Speaker 1: happening in the Amazon. You know, it was like planted. 2337 02:16:37,760 --> 02:16:40,640 Speaker 1: There's food jungle like food forests and whatnot. Is the 2338 02:16:40,760 --> 02:16:43,080 Speaker 1: term people use it within the jungle like people set 2339 02:16:43,160 --> 02:16:46,160 Speaker 1: the people set the jungle in the Amazon up to 2340 02:16:46,360 --> 02:16:49,600 Speaker 1: provide them with food in a way that isn't exactly 2341 02:16:49,760 --> 02:16:52,840 Speaker 1: isn't the same as like what we consider to be agriculture, 2342 02:16:52,879 --> 02:16:55,760 Speaker 1: but it's absolutely a kind of agriculture. And because people 2343 02:16:55,800 --> 02:16:58,680 Speaker 1: don't see it as agricultures, like, oh, that's just you know, 2344 02:16:59,160 --> 02:17:01,160 Speaker 1: they were just running around the forest before we arrived, 2345 02:17:01,200 --> 02:17:05,480 Speaker 1: you know, it's like, yeah, no, they had they had 2346 02:17:05,600 --> 02:17:09,440 Speaker 1: essentially built themselves a big smart house in the middle 2347 02:17:09,600 --> 02:17:13,560 Speaker 1: of the woods that provided them with everything they needed. 2348 02:17:13,800 --> 02:17:17,600 Speaker 1: Um with upkeep that we would consider minimal based on 2349 02:17:17,720 --> 02:17:21,480 Speaker 1: like what a lot of our European ancestors, it certainly 2350 02:17:21,600 --> 02:17:24,040 Speaker 1: like did in terms of labor to keep farms going. 2351 02:17:24,160 --> 02:17:26,480 Speaker 1: Like if you compare, I mean you could also talk 2352 02:17:26,480 --> 02:17:29,560 Speaker 1: about how like peasants in the medieval period probably worked 2353 02:17:29,640 --> 02:17:31,280 Speaker 1: less than a lot of people in the United States 2354 02:17:31,360 --> 02:17:34,120 Speaker 1: duties like everyone works less, we do know, but it's 2355 02:17:34,120 --> 02:17:37,040 Speaker 1: a lot harder to keep like a mono culture farm 2356 02:17:37,160 --> 02:17:40,840 Speaker 1: going than it is to to keep a food forest going. Yeah, 2357 02:17:40,840 --> 02:17:43,640 Speaker 1: because I mean, once it's established, it literally maintains itself. 2358 02:17:44,600 --> 02:17:46,320 Speaker 1: M What was the name of the book that you 2359 02:17:46,400 --> 02:17:49,280 Speaker 1: were talking about. Just it's called The Next Apocalypse and 2360 02:17:49,360 --> 02:17:52,280 Speaker 1: it's it's very good so far. Chris Begley is the author. 2361 02:17:52,280 --> 02:17:53,880 Speaker 1: I think we're gonna have them on next week. But 2362 02:17:54,040 --> 02:17:56,560 Speaker 1: um yeah, I've I've found it so far about a 2363 02:17:56,600 --> 02:18:00,920 Speaker 1: third of the way and very good, so much out. Okay, 2364 02:18:01,000 --> 02:18:05,360 Speaker 1: who wants to say we're back you just that's the now, 2365 02:18:08,320 --> 02:18:12,080 Speaker 1: that's the exit area. You're welcome there we are or song. 2366 02:18:13,320 --> 02:18:16,400 Speaker 1: So yeah, once we have like embraced our understanding that 2367 02:18:16,640 --> 02:18:19,840 Speaker 1: you know, we belong to the land and not vices 2368 02:18:20,600 --> 02:18:23,960 Speaker 1: and must therefore pattern ourselves and societies based on its needs. 2369 02:18:25,000 --> 02:18:28,040 Speaker 1: Um you know, that's when we get to that place 2370 02:18:28,120 --> 02:18:33,119 Speaker 1: of bioregional regeneration, which is another key concept of bioregionalism. 2371 02:18:33,959 --> 02:18:37,800 Speaker 1: And lastly, there's the concept of bioregional sensibility, which was 2372 02:18:38,040 --> 02:18:41,440 Speaker 1: developed by Mitchell Thomas Shoe, and it's about developing the 2373 02:18:41,680 --> 02:18:46,840 Speaker 1: observational skills to observe the bioregional history, to develop the 2374 02:18:47,000 --> 02:18:52,520 Speaker 1: conceptual skills to juxtapose you know, the scale of you know, 2375 02:18:52,840 --> 02:18:58,520 Speaker 1: the community and the region, and the bio ecosystem, the bioregion, 2376 02:18:58,959 --> 02:19:01,480 Speaker 1: all these different levels. Was ability to like think in 2377 02:19:01,680 --> 02:19:07,440 Speaker 1: terms of all of them, to develop the imaginative faculties too. Really, 2378 02:19:07,680 --> 02:19:13,600 Speaker 1: I would say, play with multiple landscapes and develop the compassion. 2379 02:19:14,440 --> 02:19:20,080 Speaker 1: Two empathize with and work with both local and global neighbors, 2380 02:19:20,640 --> 02:19:24,720 Speaker 1: not just local and global human neighbors, but also you know, 2381 02:19:24,920 --> 02:19:30,000 Speaker 1: the flora and fauna living next door. There are a 2382 02:19:30,000 --> 02:19:35,280 Speaker 1: lot of different bioregional practices happening all of the world. UM. 2383 02:19:35,480 --> 02:19:37,960 Speaker 1: I didn't note that it started in North America, but 2384 02:19:38,400 --> 02:19:40,960 Speaker 1: I noticed a lot of the big projects happening in 2385 02:19:41,200 --> 02:19:46,400 Speaker 1: like South America, you know, in Brazil, Sinaldo Ville, in 2386 02:19:46,480 --> 02:19:52,959 Speaker 1: Costa Rica Regenerativa, to think Colombia Regenerativa and the Pluriversity 2387 02:19:53,000 --> 02:19:56,360 Speaker 1: in the Himalayas as well, and many others. They're basically 2388 02:19:56,400 --> 02:20:02,320 Speaker 1: engaging in efforts involving applied education, ternity of agriculture systems, mapping, 2389 02:20:02,800 --> 02:20:05,640 Speaker 1: green belt restoration. There's the you know, the green Belt 2390 02:20:05,680 --> 02:20:08,879 Speaker 1: project in Africa as well, and these are all efforts 2391 02:20:08,959 --> 02:20:14,640 Speaker 1: to really understand and work with the bio regions that 2392 02:20:14,879 --> 02:20:18,120 Speaker 1: these people inhabit. So just a few tips that I 2393 02:20:18,200 --> 02:20:22,080 Speaker 1: wanted to end us off with you before we and 2394 02:20:22,240 --> 02:20:27,480 Speaker 1: things off. UM. I was trying to link um, the 2395 02:20:27,560 --> 02:20:29,920 Speaker 1: things that I talked about in some way to what 2396 02:20:30,480 --> 02:20:34,360 Speaker 1: people on the groups they are part of, the organizations 2397 02:20:34,360 --> 02:20:37,360 Speaker 1: they are part of, the communities are part of. Can 2398 02:20:37,480 --> 02:20:41,959 Speaker 1: do you know, as an action to strengthen their resilience 2399 02:20:42,280 --> 02:20:47,119 Speaker 1: or to develop you know, autonomy. Right in this case, 2400 02:20:47,280 --> 02:20:50,760 Speaker 1: it is the strength and resilience and also to develop 2401 02:20:50,879 --> 02:20:55,039 Speaker 1: the vitality of the bio region you inhabit. So, first 2402 02:20:55,080 --> 02:21:00,400 Speaker 1: of all, I think it's important that we learn as 2403 02:21:00,520 --> 02:21:05,800 Speaker 1: much as we can about our areas and learn especially 2404 02:21:05,879 --> 02:21:10,720 Speaker 1: through action, whether it be through cleanups, you know, observing 2405 02:21:11,600 --> 02:21:14,680 Speaker 1: the space around you, whether it be through observing weather 2406 02:21:14,760 --> 02:21:19,680 Speaker 1: patterns um betther be through looking at the we're on 2407 02:21:19,800 --> 02:21:23,840 Speaker 1: hikes and looking at the way that the temperature changes 2408 02:21:24,080 --> 02:21:28,000 Speaker 1: and the texture of the soil changes as you go 2409 02:21:28,240 --> 02:21:33,320 Speaker 1: up and down in um altitude. I think it's also 2410 02:21:33,360 --> 02:21:36,680 Speaker 1: important to try to get involved with actions too, um 2411 02:21:38,280 --> 02:21:43,920 Speaker 1: restore natural features and to understand the police that those 2412 02:21:43,959 --> 02:21:48,080 Speaker 1: natural features have in the broader by region. Of course, 2413 02:21:48,080 --> 02:21:51,240 Speaker 1: there are lots of sustainable projects happening all over the world. 2414 02:21:51,840 --> 02:21:54,720 Speaker 1: You know, if they aren't any in your area, UM 2415 02:21:56,120 --> 02:21:58,480 Speaker 1: be the change you want to see, start one, make 2416 02:21:58,520 --> 02:22:03,640 Speaker 1: it happen, and really also, I would say, find ways 2417 02:22:03,760 --> 02:22:09,400 Speaker 1: to link projects for environmental sustainability and restoration with projects 2418 02:22:09,520 --> 02:22:15,120 Speaker 1: for human humanancipation. Find ways to like support access to 2419 02:22:15,200 --> 02:22:18,360 Speaker 1: you know, basic human needs within your locality. To find 2420 02:22:18,400 --> 02:22:22,160 Speaker 1: ways to sort of because when we speak of bioregions 2421 02:22:22,200 --> 02:22:24,640 Speaker 1: and you know, living within our bioregions and so on 2422 02:22:24,640 --> 02:22:27,960 Speaker 1: and so forth, that's all well and good, But if, 2423 02:22:28,800 --> 02:22:34,120 Speaker 1: for example, your region has to import whole bunch of 2424 02:22:34,200 --> 02:22:37,760 Speaker 1: food all the time to support the population, I think 2425 02:22:37,879 --> 02:22:42,040 Speaker 1: there needs to be w used to UM decrease that 2426 02:22:42,160 --> 02:22:45,760 Speaker 1: sort of import and to find ways to UM live 2427 02:22:45,840 --> 02:22:50,880 Speaker 1: sustainably within the area. Raise awareness, of course as well 2428 02:22:51,360 --> 02:22:57,240 Speaker 1: UM about bioregional thinking, systems thinking, social ecological thinking, and yeah, 2429 02:22:57,320 --> 02:23:03,320 Speaker 1: just get to we're okay anti work work for figuring 2430 02:23:03,400 --> 02:23:08,040 Speaker 1: these structures of more horizontal, barriginally ethical and sustainable way 2431 02:23:08,080 --> 02:23:12,800 Speaker 1: of life. And of course disrupt the projects that getting 2432 02:23:12,800 --> 02:23:17,600 Speaker 1: the way of those schools. And I see that as 2433 02:23:17,720 --> 02:23:22,000 Speaker 1: tentatively as I can. To avoid legal trouble. That's it. 2434 02:23:22,879 --> 02:23:26,560 Speaker 1: Take care of everyone and be kind to every other thing. Piece. 2435 02:23:35,320 --> 02:23:38,480 Speaker 1: I call the Union Hall as his male life, and 2436 02:23:38,560 --> 02:23:41,800 Speaker 1: there I thank these people to planning to kill Dr King. 2437 02:23:42,440 --> 02:23:46,240 Speaker 1: On April four, Dr Martin Luther King was shot and 2438 02:23:46,320 --> 02:23:49,640 Speaker 1: killed in Memphis. A petty criminal named James Earl Ray 2439 02:23:49,840 --> 02:23:52,600 Speaker 1: was arrested. He played guilty to the crime and spent 2440 02:23:52,640 --> 02:23:56,000 Speaker 1: the rest of his life in prison. Case closed, right, 2441 02:23:57,040 --> 02:24:02,520 Speaker 1: James hyl Ray was upon the official story, the authorities 2442 02:24:02,600 --> 02:24:05,840 Speaker 1: would parade all we found a gun, the James old 2443 02:24:05,879 --> 02:24:10,240 Speaker 1: raybard in Birmingham that killed Dr King. Except it wasn't 2444 02:24:10,320 --> 02:24:13,120 Speaker 1: the gun that killed Dr. King. One of the problems 2445 02:24:13,320 --> 02:24:16,680 Speaker 1: that came out when I got the ray case was 2446 02:24:16,840 --> 02:24:20,359 Speaker 1: that some of the evidence, as far as I was concerned, 2447 02:24:20,440 --> 02:24:24,560 Speaker 1: did not match the circumstances. This is the MLK Tapes. 2448 02:24:24,920 --> 02:24:27,840 Speaker 1: The first episodes are available now. Listen on the I 2449 02:24:28,000 --> 02:24:31,760 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 2450 02:24:33,959 --> 02:24:36,840 Speaker 1: Look to your children's eyes to see the true magic 2451 02:24:37,040 --> 02:24:40,400 Speaker 1: of a forest. It's a storybook world for them. You 2452 02:24:40,560 --> 02:24:43,520 Speaker 1: look and see a tree. They see the wrinkled face 2453 02:24:43,600 --> 02:24:46,960 Speaker 1: of a wizard with arms outstretched to the sky. They 2454 02:24:47,000 --> 02:24:50,120 Speaker 1: see tessure and pebbles. They see a windy path that 2455 02:24:50,280 --> 02:24:54,520 Speaker 1: could lead to adventure, and they see you. They're fearless. Guide. 2456 02:24:54,800 --> 02:24:58,000 Speaker 1: Is this fascinating world? Find a forest near you and 2457 02:24:58,120 --> 02:25:01,120 Speaker 1: start exploring and discover the forest dot Org brought to 2458 02:25:01,120 --> 02:25:03,680 Speaker 1: you by the United States Force Service and the ad Council. 2459 02:25:10,040 --> 02:25:12,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to it could happen here a podcast that is 2460 02:25:12,920 --> 02:25:16,640 Speaker 1: remarkably today not really so much about things falling apart 2461 02:25:16,720 --> 02:25:20,240 Speaker 1: and is mostly about things in fact getting better and 2462 02:25:20,320 --> 02:25:23,440 Speaker 1: how we can do that. Um. I'm your host, Christopher. 2463 02:25:24,760 --> 02:25:27,840 Speaker 1: With me today is Garrison and we're also joined by 2464 02:25:27,920 --> 02:25:30,039 Speaker 1: Nick and Max, who are two members of the artist 2465 02:25:30,080 --> 02:25:33,200 Speaker 1: collective Solar Punk Surf Club who have released a very 2466 02:25:33,320 --> 02:25:35,879 Speaker 1: very interesting new game that we are here in part 2467 02:25:35,920 --> 02:25:38,879 Speaker 1: of talk about called solar Punk Features. Hello nick I, Max, 2468 02:25:38,959 --> 02:25:42,040 Speaker 1: How how are you doing? Hey? Doing well? Thanks? Yeah, 2469 02:25:42,160 --> 02:25:44,320 Speaker 1: doing great? Thanks for having us on. Yea excited to 2470 02:25:44,360 --> 02:25:47,240 Speaker 1: have you to on. So I guess my first question 2471 02:25:47,680 --> 02:25:52,240 Speaker 1: is how did you too, get into game design and 2472 02:25:52,360 --> 02:25:56,480 Speaker 1: sort of first have the idea to do a sort 2473 02:25:56,520 --> 02:26:00,120 Speaker 1: of like political gaming project like this. It's a good questions. Oh, 2474 02:26:00,560 --> 02:26:05,480 Speaker 1: we're not, Um, we're definitely not game designers by profession 2475 02:26:05,720 --> 02:26:09,800 Speaker 1: or trade. Um. We're members of the artist collective solar 2476 02:26:09,840 --> 02:26:18,600 Speaker 1: Punk Surf Club, and we're particularly interested in creating artwork 2477 02:26:19,040 --> 02:26:24,640 Speaker 1: and social practice that pre figures these kinds of egalitarian 2478 02:26:24,680 --> 02:26:27,400 Speaker 1: futures that we'd like to see in the world. And 2479 02:26:27,560 --> 02:26:31,880 Speaker 1: so this game was something that we've been kind of 2480 02:26:32,320 --> 02:26:34,120 Speaker 1: a project that we've been thinking about and sitting on 2481 02:26:34,280 --> 02:26:39,600 Speaker 1: for a little while and was kind of something that 2482 02:26:40,240 --> 02:26:42,960 Speaker 1: made us excited, got us excited, and we think there's 2483 02:26:43,120 --> 02:26:44,720 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of other reasons that we think it's 2484 02:26:44,760 --> 02:26:48,120 Speaker 1: a really cool, um project to work on an important project, 2485 02:26:48,360 --> 02:26:53,160 Speaker 1: and um, yeah, so we kind of took a took 2486 02:26:53,240 --> 02:26:56,040 Speaker 1: a deep dive headfirst into the world of game design 2487 02:26:56,160 --> 02:26:59,160 Speaker 1: and learning how to how to do that over the past. 2488 02:26:59,720 --> 02:27:04,280 Speaker 1: You're so okay, So how about we I guess also 2489 02:27:04,800 --> 02:27:08,160 Speaker 1: start with I guess explaining what solar Punk features is 2490 02:27:08,360 --> 02:27:10,440 Speaker 1: and sort of how it works, and then we can 2491 02:27:10,480 --> 02:27:14,920 Speaker 1: get into the sort of political aspect of this sort 2492 02:27:14,920 --> 02:27:19,000 Speaker 1: of game design project. So, solar Punk Futures is a 2493 02:27:19,440 --> 02:27:24,680 Speaker 1: storytelling game where players imagine pathways to a desirable future 2494 02:27:25,440 --> 02:27:31,080 Speaker 1: by collaboratively overcoming real world challenges. The object of the 2495 02:27:31,160 --> 02:27:35,680 Speaker 1: game is to collectively remember one of the stories that 2496 02:27:36,320 --> 02:27:41,520 Speaker 1: grew into our utopia um. The idea is that through 2497 02:27:42,879 --> 02:27:47,640 Speaker 1: back casting, where you assume within the context of the 2498 02:27:47,720 --> 02:27:52,600 Speaker 1: game that players are already in utopia and merely remembering 2499 02:27:52,680 --> 02:27:58,560 Speaker 1: back to their ancestors struggle, that players can transcend the 2500 02:27:58,680 --> 02:28:04,279 Speaker 1: idea that what currently exists must necessarily exist, which social 2501 02:28:04,400 --> 02:28:09,080 Speaker 1: theorists Murray book Chin described as the acid that corrodes 2502 02:28:09,200 --> 02:28:14,800 Speaker 1: all visionary thinking. So we wanted to make a system 2503 02:28:15,760 --> 02:28:21,000 Speaker 1: to facilitate collaborative performance sort of. We call it a 2504 02:28:21,040 --> 02:28:26,080 Speaker 1: collaborative performance of memory, but one that combines sincerity with 2505 02:28:27,040 --> 02:28:33,240 Speaker 1: laughter and speculative storytelling. The game also combines a lot 2506 02:28:33,320 --> 02:28:36,320 Speaker 1: of different elements that we saw in other games, um, 2507 02:28:37,080 --> 02:28:42,240 Speaker 1: collaborative you know, the collaborative storytelling, cooperative gameplay, uh, some 2508 02:28:42,520 --> 02:28:46,480 Speaker 1: elements of role playing, and different kind of mechanics that 2509 02:28:46,800 --> 02:28:51,040 Speaker 1: we thought would build out that kind of like I 2510 02:28:51,120 --> 02:28:54,760 Speaker 1: said earlier, those prefigurations of those egalitarian world So we're 2511 02:28:54,760 --> 02:28:57,360 Speaker 1: trying to you know, we're trying to make a game 2512 02:28:57,680 --> 02:29:00,720 Speaker 1: that had the fiction and the idea you have utopia 2513 02:29:00,760 --> 02:29:03,920 Speaker 1: built in uh in terms of the goals of the game, 2514 02:29:04,160 --> 02:29:06,400 Speaker 1: but it was also we wanted to build it into 2515 02:29:07,120 --> 02:29:08,920 Speaker 1: some of the mechanics of how the game is actually 2516 02:29:08,959 --> 02:29:13,280 Speaker 1: played too. Um. But my question from here is sort 2517 02:29:13,280 --> 02:29:15,119 Speaker 1: of well, I mean, I guess firstly is I think 2518 02:29:15,400 --> 02:29:17,560 Speaker 1: what sort of specifically drew you to solar Punk is 2519 02:29:17,640 --> 02:29:20,600 Speaker 1: sort of an aesthetic for for this, Like I know 2520 02:29:20,680 --> 02:29:23,240 Speaker 1: there's been a lot of sort of like the kind 2521 02:29:23,280 --> 02:29:26,640 Speaker 1: of social pology solar punk fusions, but I'm interested in 2522 02:29:27,120 --> 02:29:31,680 Speaker 1: what you specifically to it. So we see solar punk 2523 02:29:32,280 --> 02:29:38,959 Speaker 1: as a visionary utopian politics and aesthetic that critically engages 2524 02:29:39,520 --> 02:29:45,119 Speaker 1: the reality of capitalist catastrophe while maintaining a radical optimism 2525 02:29:45,200 --> 02:29:49,960 Speaker 1: about humanity's hopes for a communal, ecological future. Nick was 2526 02:29:50,040 --> 02:29:55,000 Speaker 1: just speaking to this um. We see it as a 2527 02:29:55,240 --> 02:30:00,240 Speaker 1: restorative justice process on a planetary scale among p pole 2528 02:30:00,400 --> 02:30:05,200 Speaker 1: between humans and non human nature. So that means reclaiming 2529 02:30:05,800 --> 02:30:10,600 Speaker 1: pieces of the past, pre pre capitalist culture. UM. That 2530 02:30:10,760 --> 02:30:16,039 Speaker 1: means material accountability for old practices, and it also means 2531 02:30:16,400 --> 02:30:20,960 Speaker 1: radical adaptability towards new ones. I think it provided a 2532 02:30:21,600 --> 02:30:28,320 Speaker 1: useful way of synthesizing several currents that we had already 2533 02:30:28,360 --> 02:30:34,680 Speaker 1: been thinking about and involved in between new media and 2534 02:30:35,240 --> 02:30:41,320 Speaker 1: social practice, thinking not just about images and objects in space, 2535 02:30:41,480 --> 02:30:46,680 Speaker 1: but also the set of social relations that those things produced. Yeah, 2536 02:30:46,720 --> 02:30:50,320 Speaker 1: we're also we're like partisans within solar punk. I don't 2537 02:30:50,360 --> 02:30:53,080 Speaker 1: think there's I don't think there's too many pro capitalists 2538 02:30:53,120 --> 02:30:55,680 Speaker 1: within solar punk, but I think there are some people 2539 02:30:55,720 --> 02:30:58,320 Speaker 1: who are maybe drawn to the aesthetic but don't necessarily 2540 02:30:58,400 --> 02:31:02,040 Speaker 1: have a politics. But we do think that there's a 2541 02:31:02,120 --> 02:31:07,720 Speaker 1: kind of a latent horizontalism, a latent anarchistic politics in 2542 02:31:08,240 --> 02:31:10,440 Speaker 1: a lot of the aesthetics around solar punk, and so 2543 02:31:11,879 --> 02:31:16,840 Speaker 1: uh as a as a collaborative as an aesthetic that 2544 02:31:17,000 --> 02:31:21,480 Speaker 1: is being defined collaboratively by people online and elsewhere. You know, 2545 02:31:21,560 --> 02:31:23,920 Speaker 1: we wanted to kind of stick out of position about 2546 02:31:24,520 --> 02:31:29,320 Speaker 1: what we thought a really realistic utopian world might look 2547 02:31:29,400 --> 02:31:35,920 Speaker 1: and feel like. Yeah, and I think this is something 2548 02:31:35,959 --> 02:31:39,920 Speaker 1: else I know YouTube I'm very passionate about. UM is 2549 02:31:40,240 --> 02:31:42,720 Speaker 1: about specifically using games as a medium to do this 2550 02:31:42,800 --> 02:31:47,400 Speaker 1: and sort of this as like this kind of storytelling 2551 02:31:47,520 --> 02:31:51,320 Speaker 1: membrance as a specifically political intervention. So could you talk 2552 02:31:51,320 --> 02:31:54,560 Speaker 1: a bit more about you know, like a yeah, you know, 2553 02:31:54,640 --> 02:31:57,320 Speaker 1: good questions like okay, so why this and not on 2554 02:31:57,560 --> 02:31:59,840 Speaker 1: you know, on this sort of less more like like 2555 02:32:00,000 --> 02:32:01,880 Speaker 1: why this and not Guerrilla Gardening? Why this and not 2556 02:32:01,959 --> 02:32:04,920 Speaker 1: some other kind of organizing etcetera, etcetera. Um. Yeahn't should 2557 02:32:04,959 --> 02:32:08,320 Speaker 1: hear you to say about that? Yeah, well, I'm not 2558 02:32:08,320 --> 02:32:10,560 Speaker 1: gonna hate on Guerrilla Gardening. I definitely think it's a 2559 02:32:10,640 --> 02:32:15,560 Speaker 1: both situation. Um, it's also in the game. Yeah, that's true. 2560 02:32:15,600 --> 02:32:18,039 Speaker 1: It's it's one of the cards, one of the tools 2561 02:32:18,080 --> 02:32:23,160 Speaker 1: that you get to use as an ancestor. Um. Yeah, 2562 02:32:23,200 --> 02:32:24,880 Speaker 1: I think, you know, there's a lot of different things 2563 02:32:24,959 --> 02:32:27,039 Speaker 1: that we were thinking about when we were thinking about 2564 02:32:27,080 --> 02:32:30,240 Speaker 1: why a game that I got a little bit into earlier. 2565 02:32:30,360 --> 02:32:34,240 Speaker 1: But you know, for one, UM, I think it helps 2566 02:32:34,360 --> 02:32:42,200 Speaker 1: reach abroad and often deep politicized audience with a fun 2567 02:32:42,760 --> 02:32:46,000 Speaker 1: way to kind of engage in some thorny political questions. 2568 02:32:46,640 --> 02:32:51,400 Speaker 1: I think that games as a participatory medium were especially 2569 02:32:51,480 --> 02:32:56,480 Speaker 1: interesting for people who are interested in sort of anarchistic 2570 02:32:58,280 --> 02:33:02,760 Speaker 1: modes of teaching and education, in education through doing rather 2571 02:33:02,879 --> 02:33:07,600 Speaker 1: than lecture. Although you know, we were also read a 2572 02:33:07,680 --> 02:33:10,120 Speaker 1: lot of good political theories, so I'm not I'm not 2573 02:33:10,200 --> 02:33:17,240 Speaker 1: opposed to that. Um And then I think, uh, you know, 2574 02:33:18,320 --> 02:33:23,199 Speaker 1: games are also fun, and there's a lot of there's 2575 02:33:23,200 --> 02:33:27,359 Speaker 1: a lot of political organizing and activism work that happens 2576 02:33:27,400 --> 02:33:33,879 Speaker 1: out there that feels that's hard and that is necessary 2577 02:33:34,320 --> 02:33:38,879 Speaker 1: to do. But just because a lot of the important 2578 02:33:38,959 --> 02:33:42,039 Speaker 1: work to be done is hard doesn't mean everything that's 2579 02:33:42,080 --> 02:33:46,880 Speaker 1: hard is important. And everything that's fun is you know, 2580 02:33:47,000 --> 02:33:51,720 Speaker 1: trifling or not going to help us get where we're 2581 02:33:51,760 --> 02:33:55,840 Speaker 1: going and and overthrow capitalism and build a new world. 2582 02:33:55,959 --> 02:34:01,680 Speaker 1: So um, yeah, those are those are some of the reasons. Yeah, 2583 02:34:01,680 --> 02:34:04,400 Speaker 1: And I think that's especially sort of interesting point because 2584 02:34:04,440 --> 02:34:08,680 Speaker 1: I think a lot of what happens in left to 2585 02:34:08,720 --> 02:34:12,080 Speaker 1: spaces you get a bunch of people doing stuff and 2586 02:34:12,320 --> 02:34:14,800 Speaker 1: they burn not really fast because you know, you're doing 2587 02:34:14,959 --> 02:34:18,200 Speaker 1: an enormous amount of work. It's all miserable. A lot 2588 02:34:18,280 --> 02:34:22,120 Speaker 1: of the times you're getting physically assaulted, and like, I 2589 02:34:22,240 --> 02:34:24,240 Speaker 1: think that's one of the things that's interesting to me 2590 02:34:24,320 --> 02:34:30,360 Speaker 1: about this is you need other forms of sort of 2591 02:34:31,760 --> 02:34:35,520 Speaker 1: community building and sort of like you need other forms 2592 02:34:35,520 --> 02:34:38,879 Speaker 1: of organizing that do not involve you being repeatedly traumatized 2593 02:34:38,879 --> 02:34:45,520 Speaker 1: over and over again. And that, yeah, especially just working 2594 02:34:45,560 --> 02:34:46,960 Speaker 1: on something like this, and then I don't know, just 2595 02:34:47,280 --> 02:34:49,320 Speaker 1: playing with your friends and having having things that are 2596 02:34:50,080 --> 02:34:53,000 Speaker 1: like collaborative and joyful and community building is I think 2597 02:34:53,120 --> 02:34:56,119 Speaker 1: very important as a way to just you know, even 2598 02:34:56,160 --> 02:34:58,280 Speaker 1: just this is not a very basic logistical level, but 2599 02:34:58,440 --> 02:35:03,360 Speaker 1: prevent people from burning out. Yeah, yeah, And and I 2600 02:35:03,480 --> 02:35:06,080 Speaker 1: definitely think that there's a role there to prevent people 2601 02:35:06,080 --> 02:35:09,240 Speaker 1: from burning out and and inspiring people with some of 2602 02:35:09,320 --> 02:35:12,000 Speaker 1: the fun ideas, the ideas that they come up with 2603 02:35:12,080 --> 02:35:14,800 Speaker 1: when they're not looking at a Google doc meeting notes, 2604 02:35:15,160 --> 02:35:17,520 Speaker 1: but instead they're playing a card game and maybe drinking 2605 02:35:17,520 --> 02:35:21,240 Speaker 1: a couple of beers and they're like, oh, how would 2606 02:35:21,280 --> 02:35:27,360 Speaker 1: I combine guerrilla gardening and um, you know, performance art too, 2607 02:35:28,520 --> 02:35:31,040 Speaker 1: bring about you know, to solve a specific challenge of 2608 02:35:31,160 --> 02:35:34,720 Speaker 1: capitalism like deforestation or these are some of the cards 2609 02:35:34,760 --> 02:35:37,640 Speaker 1: in the game. Um, And so I think it can 2610 02:35:37,720 --> 02:35:43,320 Speaker 1: be inspiring, you know, it's also um, it can be educational. 2611 02:35:43,640 --> 02:35:46,800 Speaker 1: I played with some family. Uh I think the first 2612 02:35:46,840 --> 02:35:49,280 Speaker 1: time I played, when we got the physical copy that 2613 02:35:49,440 --> 02:35:53,920 Speaker 1: wasn't a play test, was with some family and they 2614 02:35:54,080 --> 02:35:59,640 Speaker 1: don't necessarily identify as leftists of any kind. But we 2615 02:35:59,760 --> 02:36:05,200 Speaker 1: had a really fun game where we explored ideas of 2616 02:36:06,040 --> 02:36:12,600 Speaker 1: deconstructing borders, and uh, you know they were It wasn't 2617 02:36:12,680 --> 02:36:14,600 Speaker 1: like I was guiding them in this direction. It was 2618 02:36:14,640 --> 02:36:16,640 Speaker 1: just kind of the assumption of the game that there 2619 02:36:16,760 --> 02:36:22,160 Speaker 1: was utopia, got beyond this ingrained capitalist realism that there 2620 02:36:22,200 --> 02:36:25,520 Speaker 1: just isn't that there isn't an alternative, And they're like, okay, 2621 02:36:25,560 --> 02:36:27,800 Speaker 1: well the game says we're already in utopia, so that 2622 02:36:28,000 --> 02:36:30,320 Speaker 1: means there's no private property. And I was like, whoa, 2623 02:36:30,520 --> 02:36:32,920 Speaker 1: that's a that's a jump I didn't expect from my 2624 02:36:33,600 --> 02:36:38,800 Speaker 1: from my family. One thing I'm interested in in terms 2625 02:36:38,879 --> 02:36:43,120 Speaker 1: of how it functions as a game is like balancing 2626 02:36:43,920 --> 02:36:48,240 Speaker 1: the actual more I don't know, fun based like role 2627 02:36:48,280 --> 02:36:53,039 Speaker 1: playing game elements with like it's kind of structure as 2628 02:36:54,120 --> 02:36:56,680 Speaker 1: a thought exercise, and like a world building game, like 2629 02:36:56,760 --> 02:36:59,080 Speaker 1: how how how do you approach trying to get a 2630 02:36:59,120 --> 02:37:02,520 Speaker 1: balance of like fun role playing as well as this 2631 02:37:02,560 --> 02:37:05,880 Speaker 1: type of like reverse world building. I was kind of 2632 02:37:07,200 --> 02:37:09,760 Speaker 1: I was still a little bit on the y A 2633 02:37:09,879 --> 02:37:13,000 Speaker 1: game in the first place question, but I'm also intrigued 2634 02:37:13,080 --> 02:37:20,560 Speaker 1: by the balancing fun and politics question. If you don't mind, 2635 02:37:20,760 --> 02:37:23,080 Speaker 1: I wanted to go back to the y A game 2636 02:37:23,520 --> 02:37:26,840 Speaker 1: for just a second, um, because I think maybe it 2637 02:37:26,840 --> 02:37:32,360 Speaker 1: will lead into this. Games are, you know, an ancient 2638 02:37:33,040 --> 02:37:35,640 Speaker 1: form of art. I know, I said we work in 2639 02:37:35,760 --> 02:37:39,200 Speaker 1: new media before, but games are actually an ancient form 2640 02:37:39,280 --> 02:37:44,320 Speaker 1: of art, and I would argue social practice. Um. There's 2641 02:37:44,320 --> 02:37:47,760 Speaker 1: a game called Senate. There's a game called the Royal 2642 02:37:47,879 --> 02:37:51,920 Speaker 1: Game of r which both date to five thousand years 2643 02:37:51,959 --> 02:37:58,440 Speaker 1: ago in ancient Egypt and ancient Mesopotamia, respectively. We did 2644 02:37:58,840 --> 02:38:00,920 Speaker 1: in making the game, we did a bunch of research 2645 02:38:01,000 --> 02:38:05,040 Speaker 1: on the history of of games. There's a fifteenth century 2646 02:38:05,160 --> 02:38:09,240 Speaker 1: game called the Game of the Goose from uh well, 2647 02:38:09,320 --> 02:38:14,440 Speaker 1: present day Italy that paired like these gorgeous illustrations, also 2648 02:38:14,560 --> 02:38:20,280 Speaker 1: with like didactic moral instruction. In the early early twentieth century, 2649 02:38:20,600 --> 02:38:25,520 Speaker 1: the Surrealists created a series of games um with the 2650 02:38:25,600 --> 02:38:32,280 Speaker 1: intention of breaking through traditional thought patterns and unleashing the 2651 02:38:32,640 --> 02:38:36,560 Speaker 1: potentials of the unconscious. They also wanted to subvert academic 2652 02:38:36,680 --> 02:38:40,000 Speaker 1: modes of inquiry UM. And then today, you know, some 2653 02:38:40,160 --> 02:38:44,920 Speaker 1: of our most popular table top games, you know, I 2654 02:38:45,000 --> 02:38:48,039 Speaker 1: think Nick was mentioning this earlier, how they can sometimes 2655 02:38:48,120 --> 02:38:54,320 Speaker 1: inscribe oppressive logics. So, you know, rather than a game 2656 02:38:54,360 --> 02:38:57,840 Speaker 1: where you're competing against other players to drive them into poverty, 2657 02:38:58,680 --> 02:39:04,240 Speaker 1: or a game where you're trying to colonize other players land, 2658 02:39:05,160 --> 02:39:08,119 Speaker 1: you know, for the purpose of world domination, we wanted 2659 02:39:08,160 --> 02:39:16,120 Speaker 1: to make a game that actually practices the cooperation, interdependence, care, consent, uh, 2660 02:39:16,320 --> 02:39:18,080 Speaker 1: these things that will be needed, you know, for it 2661 02:39:18,160 --> 02:39:22,520 Speaker 1: actually to transcend the social ecological crises of our day. 2662 02:39:23,520 --> 02:39:25,280 Speaker 1: And kind of to that point, you know, I would 2663 02:39:25,320 --> 02:39:30,600 Speaker 1: say that games always reflect the beliefs and norms of 2664 02:39:30,680 --> 02:39:35,000 Speaker 1: their historical context. So with Solar Punk Futures, we wanted 2665 02:39:35,040 --> 02:39:39,720 Speaker 1: to kind of flip the script and UM project using 2666 02:39:39,959 --> 02:39:43,800 Speaker 1: you know, the modalities of like speculative fiction, collaborative performance, 2667 02:39:43,800 --> 02:39:49,120 Speaker 1: as I mentioned, the values and more is of a 2668 02:39:49,360 --> 02:39:54,400 Speaker 1: of a desirable future. So games are are very human thing, 2669 02:39:54,520 --> 02:39:59,000 Speaker 1: an ancient human thing. And why do people play games? Uh? 2670 02:40:00,240 --> 02:40:03,720 Speaker 1: As I mentioned, you know, education is part of it, UM, 2671 02:40:04,040 --> 02:40:07,360 Speaker 1: but also building social bonds is another important piece, and 2672 02:40:07,720 --> 02:40:10,800 Speaker 1: that always is a company. It's a very like academic 2673 02:40:10,879 --> 02:40:12,960 Speaker 1: way of talking about it, maybe, but it is. It 2674 02:40:13,120 --> 02:40:14,840 Speaker 1: is fun. It has to be fun. That's why people 2675 02:40:14,920 --> 02:40:18,360 Speaker 1: do it. In terms of the to get a little 2676 02:40:18,400 --> 02:40:21,400 Speaker 1: deeper into the balancing question, you know, every game is 2677 02:40:21,440 --> 02:40:24,440 Speaker 1: a balance between a bunch of different competing factors. There's 2678 02:40:24,720 --> 02:40:26,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people who were talking about the balance 2679 02:40:26,879 --> 02:40:32,320 Speaker 1: between randomness and planning in in games, and the balance 2680 02:40:33,040 --> 02:40:37,400 Speaker 1: um between structure and free form, and it's definitely something 2681 02:40:38,120 --> 02:40:40,720 Speaker 1: if there's any game designers out there thinking about making, 2682 02:40:41,040 --> 02:40:43,840 Speaker 1: you know, games like this, play testing it will help 2683 02:40:43,920 --> 02:40:48,280 Speaker 1: you so much because you know, the game in a 2684 02:40:48,440 --> 02:40:52,040 Speaker 1: rough form existed in the spring of last year, but 2685 02:40:52,480 --> 02:40:58,000 Speaker 1: playtesting really helped us refine a lot of those questions 2686 02:40:58,120 --> 02:41:03,439 Speaker 1: and find that kind of balance between structure and freeformness. 2687 02:41:03,600 --> 02:41:06,200 Speaker 1: We wanted it to be accessible to people who aren't 2688 02:41:06,480 --> 02:41:10,199 Speaker 1: d n D players, but we've also played with people 2689 02:41:10,240 --> 02:41:12,280 Speaker 1: who play a lot of D n D and GM 2690 02:41:12,400 --> 02:41:15,600 Speaker 1: and all this stuff, and they took it in a 2691 02:41:15,720 --> 02:41:18,040 Speaker 1: lot of fun and wild directions that we didn't expect. 2692 02:41:18,200 --> 02:41:21,199 Speaker 1: That helped inform kind of new ways that we could, 2693 02:41:21,879 --> 02:41:24,000 Speaker 1: you know, we added some optional rules in there for 2694 02:41:24,120 --> 02:41:26,960 Speaker 1: people who want to take it in a different direction 2695 02:41:27,200 --> 02:41:30,440 Speaker 1: or or add more complexity, or or even or for 2696 02:41:30,520 --> 02:41:33,000 Speaker 1: other people who need a little bit like a handhold 2697 02:41:33,040 --> 02:41:35,160 Speaker 1: and want to flip a coin to decide something rather 2698 02:41:35,240 --> 02:41:39,880 Speaker 1: than um, you know, come up with it totally on 2699 02:41:39,959 --> 02:41:44,360 Speaker 1: their own. So I think, um, yeah, it's a hard 2700 02:41:44,560 --> 02:41:47,680 Speaker 1: it's a hard thing to balance, you know, all the 2701 02:41:47,720 --> 02:41:50,560 Speaker 1: different factors that go into a game. But I definitely 2702 02:41:50,600 --> 02:41:53,240 Speaker 1: think play testing and all the people who who played 2703 02:41:53,280 --> 02:41:56,560 Speaker 1: with us in those early games really helped helped us 2704 02:41:56,600 --> 02:41:59,880 Speaker 1: figure out the right balance. And to your earlier point 2705 02:42:00,000 --> 02:42:06,480 Speaker 1: about burnout, like activists burnout, Um, some people who we've 2706 02:42:06,520 --> 02:42:11,640 Speaker 1: invited to play the game maybe have have expressed this 2707 02:42:11,760 --> 02:42:15,840 Speaker 1: idea of like, well, um, I'd love to, but I 2708 02:42:15,879 --> 02:42:22,600 Speaker 1: don't have time, And maybe maybe they they think of 2709 02:42:23,040 --> 02:42:25,520 Speaker 1: of gaming. And I know I've certainly been guilty of 2710 02:42:25,560 --> 02:42:28,960 Speaker 1: this too, of feeling like guilt over things that feel 2711 02:42:29,000 --> 02:42:31,800 Speaker 1: like it indulges like you should be doing the real 2712 02:42:31,879 --> 02:42:36,560 Speaker 1: work all the time. But you know, I think it's 2713 02:42:36,600 --> 02:42:40,720 Speaker 1: important to hold that in the perspective of the tradition 2714 02:42:40,920 --> 02:42:47,120 Speaker 1: of of feminism. Civil rights advocates, others on the left 2715 02:42:47,200 --> 02:42:52,160 Speaker 1: that have talked about the importance of um joy that 2716 02:42:52,320 --> 02:42:54,880 Speaker 1: needs to be integral to our struggles. There's the famous 2717 02:42:55,240 --> 02:42:57,520 Speaker 1: I'm a Goldman quip. If I can't dance, it's not 2718 02:42:57,680 --> 02:43:02,120 Speaker 1: my revolution. So apps, you know, these ideas of like 2719 02:43:02,879 --> 02:43:06,280 Speaker 1: guilt and shame or martyrdom or whatever are kind of 2720 02:43:06,400 --> 02:43:08,400 Speaker 1: toxic parts of the old world that we need to 2721 02:43:09,200 --> 02:43:12,640 Speaker 1: to let go of. UM. So, I guess this is 2722 02:43:12,720 --> 02:43:16,240 Speaker 1: kind of coming back to say that there's as as 2723 02:43:16,320 --> 02:43:18,840 Speaker 1: Nick was saying, there is an ethical, pre figurative case 2724 02:43:19,120 --> 02:43:24,119 Speaker 1: of um of how games can allow people to um 2725 02:43:25,240 --> 02:43:29,840 Speaker 1: express themselves through play, but there's also a tactical one, 2726 02:43:30,840 --> 02:43:34,039 Speaker 1: and that games can be a structured way of thinking 2727 02:43:34,080 --> 02:43:38,240 Speaker 1: about how do we create a liberated society? One everything 2728 02:43:38,280 --> 02:43:40,720 Speaker 1: I think is sort of interesting about well, like, I 2729 02:43:40,800 --> 02:43:46,560 Speaker 1: guess this is somewhat less true of tabletop games as 2730 02:43:46,600 --> 02:43:50,440 Speaker 1: in medium, because typical games are a lot of sort 2731 02:43:50,440 --> 02:43:53,840 Speaker 1: of cloud of storytelling ish stuff. But like I know, 2732 02:43:54,080 --> 02:43:56,080 Speaker 1: like like so, like I I play a lot of 2733 02:43:56,120 --> 02:44:00,280 Speaker 1: video games, right, and it's like it's like a lot 2734 02:44:00,320 --> 02:44:06,000 Speaker 1: of the structure of what gaming is is sort of 2735 02:44:08,959 --> 02:44:12,080 Speaker 1: like it basically it turned into like another job that 2736 02:44:12,200 --> 02:44:17,040 Speaker 1: you have and it's interesting. Yeah, you know, and you 2737 02:44:17,240 --> 02:44:19,480 Speaker 1: you like, you get you get the same you even 2738 02:44:19,560 --> 02:44:22,800 Speaker 1: get like bogo like crossover between the terminology of like 2739 02:44:23,320 --> 02:44:26,880 Speaker 1: like you know, like I think like grinding is like 2740 02:44:27,160 --> 02:44:30,120 Speaker 1: the grind. Yeah, like grind. I think I think that 2741 02:44:30,240 --> 02:44:32,400 Speaker 1: came from gaming first and then moved over into the 2742 02:44:32,440 --> 02:44:35,920 Speaker 1: weird grindset stuff. But like I think you're right, yeah yeah, 2743 02:44:36,080 --> 02:44:40,720 Speaker 1: and gamification, right, that's another way that like gaming is 2744 02:44:40,800 --> 02:44:44,480 Speaker 1: being almost like weaponized by capitalism to get squeezed just 2745 02:44:44,520 --> 02:44:47,760 Speaker 1: a little bit more out of everyone. Yeah, there's there's 2746 02:44:47,760 --> 02:44:52,040 Speaker 1: a really interesting article whose name I am forgetting because 2747 02:44:53,440 --> 02:44:59,560 Speaker 1: I am yeah, I um, but Vicky Oustawal wrote it 2748 02:44:59,640 --> 02:45:05,280 Speaker 1: like a while ago that was about how like games 2749 02:45:05,320 --> 02:45:08,920 Speaker 1: are like it's you know, it's it's used sort of 2750 02:45:08,959 --> 02:45:11,240 Speaker 1: mechanically doing the same thing over and over and over again. 2751 02:45:11,360 --> 02:45:13,640 Speaker 1: But it's it's a problem because it's like it's it's 2752 02:45:13,760 --> 02:45:16,320 Speaker 1: labor that's like too perfect. It it doesn't create anything. 2753 02:45:16,320 --> 02:45:20,440 Speaker 1: There's no sort of like like there's there's no sort 2754 02:45:20,480 --> 02:45:25,560 Speaker 1: of like um like aspect that produces like value that 2755 02:45:25,560 --> 02:45:27,080 Speaker 1: could be extracted. You're just sort of you're just doing 2756 02:45:27,120 --> 02:45:29,800 Speaker 1: a thing over and over again, and it's like and 2757 02:45:29,959 --> 02:45:31,640 Speaker 1: you know, and that then then that you know, becomes 2758 02:45:31,640 --> 02:45:33,320 Speaker 1: a problem for capital in some sense. It's why there's 2759 02:45:33,320 --> 02:45:35,280 Speaker 1: all these panics about like everyone being addicted to gaming, 2760 02:45:35,280 --> 02:45:38,040 Speaker 1: because it's like, well, okay, you're not making money for us, 2761 02:45:39,320 --> 02:45:42,640 Speaker 1: But I think it's interesting simulator you could be driving 2762 02:45:42,720 --> 02:45:46,400 Speaker 1: some actual Yeah. Yeah, but you know, I think it's 2763 02:45:46,400 --> 02:45:51,640 Speaker 1: interesting that this is a political intervention into that of 2764 02:45:51,720 --> 02:45:54,760 Speaker 1: creating something that's you know, precisely the opposite of that 2765 02:45:54,920 --> 02:45:57,600 Speaker 1: that it's you know, you're not sort of like it's 2766 02:45:57,640 --> 02:46:00,240 Speaker 1: not just like an incredible intensification of the sort of 2767 02:46:00,360 --> 02:46:04,200 Speaker 1: like reward systems of working. It's hey, we're gonna come 2768 02:46:04,200 --> 02:46:07,119 Speaker 1: together and we're gonna tell we're gonna you know, make 2769 02:46:07,160 --> 02:46:09,480 Speaker 1: collaborative decisions and overcome challenges. And I think I think 2770 02:46:09,520 --> 02:46:11,880 Speaker 1: that's a very interesting sort of political angle to come 2771 02:46:11,920 --> 02:46:17,440 Speaker 1: at this from. Yeah, I think a lot of a 2772 02:46:17,520 --> 02:46:22,320 Speaker 1: lot of tabletop games in particular, compared to video games. 2773 02:46:23,000 --> 02:46:26,360 Speaker 1: I think, well, i'll say, role playing games in particular 2774 02:46:26,800 --> 02:46:28,880 Speaker 1: put you in a driver's seat in a way that 2775 02:46:29,000 --> 02:46:33,440 Speaker 1: I think can is is hard, right, Like sometimes I'm 2776 02:46:33,480 --> 02:46:35,840 Speaker 1: too tired to or if I think, you know, I 2777 02:46:35,959 --> 02:46:37,760 Speaker 1: have a I have a D and D night, and 2778 02:46:37,879 --> 02:46:39,600 Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't know if I have the energy 2779 02:46:39,640 --> 02:46:43,880 Speaker 1: for this after working all day, um, whereas I might 2780 02:46:44,000 --> 02:46:47,600 Speaker 1: have energy to play you know, a video game RPG 2781 02:46:47,800 --> 02:46:50,039 Speaker 1: that kind of walks me, you know, handholds me through 2782 02:46:50,040 --> 02:46:55,320 Speaker 1: a story. Um, it's kind of more like watching more passive. UM. 2783 02:46:56,000 --> 02:46:59,400 Speaker 1: But I do think that there's I just think there's 2784 02:46:59,440 --> 02:47:09,760 Speaker 1: something so important about thinking through what it might be 2785 02:47:09,920 --> 02:47:14,600 Speaker 1: like to live in this utopian society. And it's important, 2786 02:47:14,640 --> 02:47:18,720 Speaker 1: I think because if we don't well, for one, a 2787 02:47:18,800 --> 02:47:22,000 Speaker 1: ton of people just don't even think about it. Um. 2788 02:47:22,200 --> 02:47:24,280 Speaker 1: And so to the extent that this game is something 2789 02:47:24,360 --> 02:47:27,280 Speaker 1: that gets bought or played with families of people who 2790 02:47:27,560 --> 02:47:29,960 Speaker 1: are you know, one of the many people who have 2791 02:47:30,080 --> 02:47:33,760 Speaker 1: been de politicized in this country. UM, I think that 2792 02:47:33,879 --> 02:47:37,000 Speaker 1: can be really helpful. But I also think that Um, 2793 02:47:38,879 --> 02:47:42,120 Speaker 1: I've played it and I've found really fun and exciting 2794 02:47:42,200 --> 02:47:45,200 Speaker 1: ideas that I wouldn't have thought about if I was 2795 02:47:45,280 --> 02:47:48,920 Speaker 1: staring at a power map or something and thinking where 2796 02:47:49,000 --> 02:47:52,800 Speaker 1: can we intervene in my city too, you know, help 2797 02:47:53,720 --> 02:47:57,039 Speaker 1: help solve this or that problem. So I think, yeah, 2798 02:47:57,040 --> 02:47:59,560 Speaker 1: I think there's power there. So I think one of 2799 02:47:59,640 --> 02:48:02,160 Speaker 1: the thinks I think it's interesting to me about how 2800 02:48:02,320 --> 02:48:04,959 Speaker 1: you tube sort of the team put this product together. 2801 02:48:05,120 --> 02:48:06,560 Speaker 1: And it's also like you know, so like you can 2802 02:48:06,600 --> 02:48:08,880 Speaker 1: buy the versions of it that have like very very 2803 02:48:08,959 --> 02:48:11,640 Speaker 1: nice art, but you also just put the cards and 2804 02:48:11,720 --> 02:48:13,000 Speaker 1: the rules up for free and you can just sort 2805 02:48:13,040 --> 02:48:14,840 Speaker 1: of print and play its owner. Yeah, if you could 2806 02:48:14,840 --> 02:48:18,439 Speaker 1: talk a bit about decision you do that democratic accessibility 2807 02:48:18,560 --> 02:48:22,040 Speaker 1: is really important to us. It's part of the concept 2808 02:48:22,120 --> 02:48:25,880 Speaker 1: that we wanted to integrate into every aspect of the 2809 02:48:25,959 --> 02:48:30,320 Speaker 1: game's production and distribution. And so yeah, the whole thing 2810 02:48:30,440 --> 02:48:36,040 Speaker 1: is available as a free print and play PDF download. UM. 2811 02:48:36,240 --> 02:48:41,920 Speaker 1: It's all Creative Commons licensed. UM. So that's yeah. And 2812 02:48:42,240 --> 02:48:44,120 Speaker 1: you know, at the same time, as you mentioned, we 2813 02:48:45,800 --> 02:48:53,039 Speaker 1: we uh are interested in materiality and want wanted to create, um, 2814 02:48:54,560 --> 02:48:56,960 Speaker 1: something that could could a company, you know, a face 2815 02:48:57,040 --> 02:49:01,039 Speaker 1: to face interaction as well, which is you know, frankly, well, 2816 02:49:01,040 --> 02:49:04,360 Speaker 1: I'll just speak for myself. That's probably more my interest. UM, 2817 02:49:04,959 --> 02:49:07,000 Speaker 1: even though I think you know like that we have 2818 02:49:07,080 --> 02:49:09,959 Speaker 1: a tabletop simulator version two, which I think is really cool. 2819 02:49:10,600 --> 02:49:14,200 Speaker 1: But as far as the decision to make the game, 2820 02:49:14,720 --> 02:49:18,200 Speaker 1: you know, free, free forever, um. We want people to play. 2821 02:49:18,320 --> 02:49:22,120 Speaker 1: We want it to be genuinely useful. Um, this is 2822 02:49:22,200 --> 02:49:26,880 Speaker 1: not a this is not a capitalistic business venture. We're 2823 02:49:27,040 --> 02:49:29,840 Speaker 1: running a break even budget and want to just keep 2824 02:49:30,240 --> 02:49:33,760 Speaker 1: doing projects and you know, elaborating like the solar punk 2825 02:49:33,920 --> 02:49:37,720 Speaker 1: tradition and connecting it to social, ecological, communalist politics. So 2826 02:49:38,760 --> 02:49:41,960 Speaker 1: if this can be a catalyst towards being able to 2827 02:49:42,080 --> 02:49:46,840 Speaker 1: do more of that, then um, then that's you know, 2828 02:49:47,600 --> 02:49:49,879 Speaker 1: we'll have we'll have succeeded on our on our terms 2829 02:49:49,920 --> 02:49:53,800 Speaker 1: at least. What's the satus of physical copies of how 2830 02:49:53,840 --> 02:49:59,119 Speaker 1: can people if they want to use cards and stuff? 2831 02:49:59,240 --> 02:50:02,400 Speaker 1: What is how how would want to go about getting those? Yeah, 2832 02:50:02,440 --> 02:50:06,200 Speaker 1: so there's a couple of different ways. People can download 2833 02:50:06,240 --> 02:50:08,800 Speaker 1: the free print and play if they like. If they 2834 02:50:08,879 --> 02:50:10,760 Speaker 1: really love it, they want to buy the physical copy. 2835 02:50:11,280 --> 02:50:14,560 Speaker 1: We sold out of the kind of first edition that 2836 02:50:14,720 --> 02:50:18,600 Speaker 1: we were able to afford to print, but we're raising 2837 02:50:19,160 --> 02:50:22,680 Speaker 1: money on Kickstarter for a second edition. So if people 2838 02:50:22,800 --> 02:50:25,240 Speaker 1: back us at a certain tier there I think it's 2839 02:50:25,320 --> 02:50:28,959 Speaker 1: forty five dollars or higher. Uh, you get a copy 2840 02:50:28,959 --> 02:50:31,920 Speaker 1: of the game when we're able to print them. Uh, 2841 02:50:32,320 --> 02:50:36,520 Speaker 1: And so yeah, so it's a um and of course, 2842 02:50:36,680 --> 02:50:39,359 Speaker 1: as Max mentioned, you can also play on tabletop simulator. 2843 02:50:40,480 --> 02:50:43,440 Speaker 1: But yeah, we're we're really excited about it. I think 2844 02:50:44,240 --> 02:50:48,280 Speaker 1: we're also hoping to take it around to some you know, 2845 02:50:48,400 --> 02:50:53,920 Speaker 1: political workshops, probably on Zoom for the foreseeable future, um 2846 02:50:55,000 --> 02:50:59,160 Speaker 1: get maybe game convention, tabletop game conventions and stuff, and 2847 02:50:59,400 --> 02:51:03,200 Speaker 1: also some art art shows um to be announced, to 2848 02:51:03,320 --> 02:51:06,320 Speaker 1: be announced, but there's a couple of art shows that 2849 02:51:06,400 --> 02:51:11,560 Speaker 1: we're excited to be showing it in. So um yeah. Yeah. 2850 02:51:11,680 --> 02:51:14,040 Speaker 1: One one thing I'm really excited about in terms of 2851 02:51:14,360 --> 02:51:19,440 Speaker 1: playing this at some point is the I think starting 2852 02:51:19,520 --> 02:51:23,640 Speaker 1: from the point of like you're trying to build the 2853 02:51:23,760 --> 02:51:27,520 Speaker 1: world now, you can really easy, it's really easy to 2854 02:51:27,600 --> 02:51:31,560 Speaker 1: run into ruts um starting at the end point than 2855 02:51:31,640 --> 02:51:37,160 Speaker 1: working backwards, I think because that produces that reverse type 2856 02:51:37,200 --> 02:51:39,720 Speaker 1: of thought. I think it's a little bit easier for 2857 02:51:39,920 --> 02:51:43,360 Speaker 1: to find the path than just starting here and looking 2858 02:51:43,360 --> 02:51:45,840 Speaker 1: at the world to be like, oh, how do we 2859 02:51:46,000 --> 02:51:48,520 Speaker 1: do anything to make it better? Instead of being at 2860 02:51:48,520 --> 02:51:50,800 Speaker 1: the opposite place and being like, what's what is the 2861 02:51:50,800 --> 02:51:54,640 Speaker 1: way to backtrack? I think can maybe give you some 2862 02:51:55,440 --> 02:51:59,360 Speaker 1: connections and ideas that you may not have had otherwise 2863 02:51:59,400 --> 02:52:02,680 Speaker 1: because we're kind of always stuck in the now, how 2864 02:52:02,720 --> 02:52:06,160 Speaker 1: do we get now better. So I would be very 2865 02:52:06,160 --> 02:52:10,040 Speaker 1: excited to try try this out at some point and 2866 02:52:10,360 --> 02:52:15,560 Speaker 1: uh and experience that backtrack thinking, because I think it's 2867 02:52:15,680 --> 02:52:19,400 Speaker 1: a Yeah, I'm really intrigued with that specific aspect of 2868 02:52:19,440 --> 02:52:21,560 Speaker 1: the game, because yeah, I'm sure there's gonna be a 2869 02:52:21,600 --> 02:52:25,000 Speaker 1: lot of solar Punk games within the next decade probably, Um, 2870 02:52:25,320 --> 02:52:27,160 Speaker 1: and this is one aspect that I think actually is 2871 02:52:27,280 --> 02:52:31,200 Speaker 1: really unique and something that's not just intrinsic to solar Punk. Um. 2872 02:52:31,760 --> 02:52:33,360 Speaker 1: You know, it's something that's kind of been added on. 2873 02:52:33,560 --> 02:52:39,000 Speaker 1: So uh, that's something I'm really excited about. And yeah, 2874 02:52:39,000 --> 02:52:44,760 Speaker 1: I would love to love to pick this up uh soon. Yeah, 2875 02:52:44,800 --> 02:52:47,240 Speaker 1: thank you for saying that. Um. I think one of 2876 02:52:47,320 --> 02:52:51,760 Speaker 1: the things that we hope that the game does is 2877 02:52:51,959 --> 02:52:56,280 Speaker 1: help people break through that capitalist realism. Yeah, like there 2878 02:52:56,400 --> 02:52:58,720 Speaker 1: is no alternative. It's easier to imagine the end of 2879 02:52:58,720 --> 02:53:01,400 Speaker 1: the world than the end of capitalism, et cetera. Um. 2880 02:53:02,160 --> 02:53:05,000 Speaker 1: And you know, similarly, if you ask people to imagine 2881 02:53:05,080 --> 02:53:09,960 Speaker 1: the future, uh, it's very hard and uh and if 2882 02:53:10,040 --> 02:53:14,720 Speaker 1: they are able to at all, it is often extrapolating 2883 02:53:14,920 --> 02:53:19,400 Speaker 1: sort of the worst trends of today into a dystopian future. Yeah, 2884 02:53:19,400 --> 02:53:22,640 Speaker 1: I remember slightly. I remember So when when I was 2885 02:53:22,720 --> 02:53:24,800 Speaker 1: in I was in middle school or something, we had 2886 02:53:24,800 --> 02:53:26,800 Speaker 1: this society where we had to like write a you 2887 02:53:27,040 --> 02:53:29,200 Speaker 1: like write what are perfect like utopian society would be, 2888 02:53:29,920 --> 02:53:32,280 Speaker 1: and we like did it, and like three quarters of 2889 02:53:32,400 --> 02:53:34,480 Speaker 1: the like society people come up with were just like 2890 02:53:35,320 --> 02:53:38,640 Speaker 1: the worst imaginable dystopia. It was just like it's just 2891 02:53:39,000 --> 02:53:42,480 Speaker 1: really grim. Sort of Yeah, if I was gonna, if 2892 02:53:42,520 --> 02:53:45,480 Speaker 1: I was gonna make what I thought was an accurate 2893 02:53:45,560 --> 02:53:49,600 Speaker 1: prediction of the future, it might be more similar to 2894 02:53:50,400 --> 02:53:54,720 Speaker 1: the first season of this podcast, then yeah, uh, some 2895 02:53:54,920 --> 02:53:58,520 Speaker 1: of the hopeful futures. But I don't I also don't think. 2896 02:53:59,080 --> 02:54:02,160 Speaker 1: I don't think the door is closed on any kind 2897 02:54:02,200 --> 02:54:04,400 Speaker 1: of solar punk future. I think it's important. One of 2898 02:54:04,440 --> 02:54:07,720 Speaker 1: the important aspects that we included that that is that 2899 02:54:07,840 --> 02:54:12,439 Speaker 1: makes solar punk different than just kind of vague utopianism 2900 02:54:12,680 --> 02:54:15,560 Speaker 1: is that we think we ask people to also think 2901 02:54:15,560 --> 02:54:18,880 Speaker 1: about the barriers they run into, to think about, you 2902 02:54:18,920 --> 02:54:22,400 Speaker 1: know what, who's gonna who's gonna oppose you if you're 2903 02:54:22,480 --> 02:54:29,480 Speaker 1: trying to um, you know, deal with polluted water and 2904 02:54:29,840 --> 02:54:35,200 Speaker 1: you find some really great system and improve a region's 2905 02:54:35,240 --> 02:54:38,600 Speaker 1: water supply, you know, Nestley might come in and buy 2906 02:54:38,680 --> 02:54:41,400 Speaker 1: the rights to the whole region, the whole watershed. So 2907 02:54:42,120 --> 02:54:46,480 Speaker 1: you know, imagining those that opposition, the material conditions that 2908 02:54:47,080 --> 02:54:51,400 Speaker 1: might change, and how you adapt to them. We hope 2909 02:54:51,440 --> 02:54:56,040 Speaker 1: that's something that people also benefit from who played this 2910 02:54:56,200 --> 02:55:01,600 Speaker 1: game and and make some prediction ends about the strategic 2911 02:55:01,640 --> 02:55:04,240 Speaker 1: decisions that capital is going to make to oppose your 2912 02:55:04,600 --> 02:55:08,800 Speaker 1: your utopian vision. And I hope there are more solar 2913 02:55:08,879 --> 02:55:11,880 Speaker 1: punk games, Like you said, I hope there's a preponderance 2914 02:55:11,920 --> 02:55:15,440 Speaker 1: of solar punk art in the in the next decade. 2915 02:55:15,480 --> 02:55:18,160 Speaker 1: That would be amazing. And you know, to what you 2916 02:55:18,240 --> 02:55:21,360 Speaker 1: were just saying, you're right, solar punk doesn't mean the 2917 02:55:21,640 --> 02:55:25,520 Speaker 1: end of politics, doesn't mean the absence of conflict. Um. 2918 02:55:26,480 --> 02:55:28,680 Speaker 1: So I think we tried to integrate that into the game. 2919 02:55:29,120 --> 02:55:32,560 Speaker 1: What makes a good solar punk stories that it is 2920 02:55:32,720 --> 02:55:40,720 Speaker 1: plausible yet distinctly anti utopian, anti dystopian rather um it 2921 02:55:40,920 --> 02:55:46,400 Speaker 1: you know, provides a glimpse into a future possibility for say, 2922 02:55:46,560 --> 02:55:51,959 Speaker 1: the reharmonization of humans with other humans, humans with non 2923 02:55:52,040 --> 02:55:57,240 Speaker 1: human nature, um, and that is going to involve some 2924 02:55:57,480 --> 02:56:01,920 Speaker 1: amount of opposition on the one hand and reconstruction on 2925 02:56:02,040 --> 02:56:06,120 Speaker 1: the other. In short to to critique by building as 2926 02:56:06,200 --> 02:56:10,120 Speaker 1: the slogan goes all right, yeah, plugs time. What do 2927 02:56:10,160 --> 02:56:13,880 Speaker 1: you what do you need two have plugs? Uh? So yeah, 2928 02:56:13,920 --> 02:56:17,359 Speaker 1: we have an upcoming live stream on Twitch with Veterans 2929 02:56:17,440 --> 02:56:20,360 Speaker 1: for Peace. They have some gamers for Peace and Tuesday 2930 02:56:20,520 --> 02:56:24,039 Speaker 1: night on at eight p m they're gonna be playing 2931 02:56:24,080 --> 02:56:27,600 Speaker 1: solar Punk solar Punk Futures with us. Uh. If people 2932 02:56:27,600 --> 02:56:30,760 Speaker 1: are interested in the game, they can download it for 2933 02:56:30,920 --> 02:56:33,320 Speaker 1: print and play on our website at h T T 2934 02:56:33,440 --> 02:56:39,040 Speaker 1: P colon slash Slash the Future dot w TF uh 2935 02:56:39,280 --> 02:56:42,720 Speaker 1: and UH. People can also find a link to our 2936 02:56:42,800 --> 02:56:45,960 Speaker 1: kickstarter on that website if they're interested in pre ordering 2937 02:56:46,760 --> 02:56:50,320 Speaker 1: physical copy, which we very much appreciate. We're getting close 2938 02:56:50,400 --> 02:56:55,800 Speaker 1: to funded. That's very exciting. I hope, I hope, I hope. 2939 02:56:55,800 --> 02:56:57,400 Speaker 1: I hope it gets funded. I want to see more 2940 02:56:57,440 --> 02:57:02,959 Speaker 1: of these because the art is extremely cool. And yeah, well, 2941 02:57:03,040 --> 02:57:05,400 Speaker 1: thank you to you for coming on this. This has 2942 02:57:05,440 --> 02:57:08,240 Speaker 1: been it could happen here and we'll see you the 2943 02:57:08,360 --> 02:57:11,840 Speaker 1: next time an episode goes up. I don't know when 2944 02:57:11,879 --> 02:57:28,240 Speaker 1: that's gonna be right now, So yeah, wonderful extros. Hey, 2945 02:57:28,360 --> 02:57:31,440 Speaker 1: We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from 2946 02:57:31,480 --> 02:57:34,240 Speaker 1: now until the heat Death of the universe. It could 2947 02:57:34,280 --> 02:57:36,640 Speaker 1: Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. Or 2948 02:57:36,720 --> 02:57:39,440 Speaker 1: more podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit our website cool 2949 02:57:39,520 --> 02:57:41,440 Speaker 1: zone media dot com or check us out on the 2950 02:57:41,520 --> 02:57:44,200 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen 2951 02:57:44,240 --> 02:57:47,160 Speaker 1: to podcasts. You can find sources for It could Happen Here, 2952 02:57:47,280 --> 02:57:50,680 Speaker 1: updated monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. 2953 02:57:50,920 --> 02:57:55,520 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. I'm Colleen with Join me, the host 2954 02:57:55,600 --> 02:57:58,240 Speaker 1: of Eating While Broke podcast. While I Eat a meal 2955 02:57:58,360 --> 02:58:02,440 Speaker 1: created by self made entree snors, influencers and celebrities over 2956 02:58:02,480 --> 02:58:04,720 Speaker 1: a meal they once eight when they were broke. Today 2957 02:58:04,760 --> 02:58:07,800 Speaker 1: I have the lovely aj Crimson, the official Princess of 2958 02:58:07,959 --> 02:58:12,280 Speaker 1: comfin Asia, Kidding and Assia. This is the professor we're 2959 02:58:12,320 --> 02:58:15,080 Speaker 1: here on Eating while Broken. Today, I'm gonna break down 2960 02:58:15,640 --> 02:58:17,520 Speaker 1: my meal that got me through a time when I 2961 02:58:17,640 --> 02:58:20,160 Speaker 1: was broken. Listen to Eating While Broke on the I 2962 02:58:20,360 --> 02:58:23,320 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, on Apple podcasts, or wherever you get 2963 02:58:23,400 --> 02:58:27,080 Speaker 1: your podcasts. Adoption of teens from foster care is a 2964 02:58:27,200 --> 02:58:29,480 Speaker 1: topic not enough people know about, and we're here to 2965 02:58:29,560 --> 02:58:32,439 Speaker 1: change that. I'm April Dinuity, host of the new podcast 2966 02:58:32,640 --> 02:58:36,640 Speaker 1: Navigating Adoption, presented by Adopt us Kids. Each episode brings 2967 02:58:36,680 --> 02:58:40,080 Speaker 1: you compelling, real life adoption stories told by the families 2968 02:58:40,080 --> 02:58:43,480 Speaker 1: that lived them, with commentary from experts. Visit adopt us 2969 02:58:43,600 --> 02:58:47,119 Speaker 1: Kids dot org, slash podcast, or subscribe to Navigating Adoption, 2970 02:58:47,240 --> 02:58:49,960 Speaker 1: presented by adopt us Kids, brought to you by the U. 2971 02:58:50,080 --> 02:58:52,720 Speaker 1: S Department of Health, that Human Services Administration for Children 2972 02:58:52,760 --> 02:58:57,240 Speaker 1: and Families, and the ACT Council. Look for your children's 2973 02:58:57,320 --> 02:59:00,960 Speaker 1: eyes and you will discover the two magic of a forest. 2974 02:59:01,720 --> 02:59:04,800 Speaker 1: Find a forest near you and start exploring it. Discover 2975 02:59:04,920 --> 02:59:07,440 Speaker 1: the Forest dot org, brought to you by the United 2976 02:59:07,480 --> 02:59:09,480 Speaker 1: States Forest Service and the ad Council.