1
00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:07,800
Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name

2
00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,800
Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday.

3
00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:13,280
Speaker 1: Time for a Vault episode. This time we're going back

4
00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:19,640
Speaker 1: to November for Dangerous Foods three. The Dangerous food in

5
00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,800
Speaker 1: NG the third. It is another one of our Dangerous

6
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,759
Speaker 1: Foods episodes where we talked about foods that could actually

7
00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,440
Speaker 1: poison you in some kind of context, or maybe just

8
00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:30,960
Speaker 1: some hype about things that people thought were poisonous and

9
00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:33,080
Speaker 1: weren't really, or things that will just get caught in

10
00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:37,160
Speaker 1: your throat because they're still writhing around that sort of thing. Uh. Yeah,

11
00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:39,680
Speaker 1: this one, this one was another fun one. Uh. I

12
00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:41,960
Speaker 1: don't know if this completed the trilogy or not at

13
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,480
Speaker 1: this as we were according this new intro. I don't

14
00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,880
Speaker 1: think we've decided whether we're going to attempt a part

15
00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,879
Speaker 1: four yet. Are there enough Dangerous Foods left that we

16
00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,120
Speaker 1: can talk about without really stretching it? Yeah, I'm I'm

17
00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,360
Speaker 1: hoping what will happen is that we'll hear from listeners

18
00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,160
Speaker 1: that will ride in in response to these two Vault

19
00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,080
Speaker 1: episodes and say, oh, actually, here are some things you

20
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,480
Speaker 1: should cover, and then we'll cover them. That'll take some

21
00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,240
Speaker 1: of the work and effort out of the whole the

22
00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:10,840
Speaker 1: whole enterprise. Right, Hey, you out there do our job

23
00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:14,600
Speaker 1: for us, all right. Well, on that note, let's dig in.

24
00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,319
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff

25
00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:30,200
Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hey, welcome to stuff to blow your mind.

26
00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,800
Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. Hey,

27
00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,399
Speaker 1: And here in the United States is the week of

28
00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:41,200
Speaker 1: one of our weirdest national holidays, Thanksgiving, the celebration of eating, well, yes, eating,

29
00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:46,360
Speaker 1: and and family and sort of imperfect recollections of US

30
00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,919
Speaker 1: history as well as of course Mr Sentence Theater three thousand.

31
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,360
Speaker 1: That's that's what I associated with the Turkey Day Marathon. Now,

32
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,480
Speaker 1: I think Thanksgiving is a weird holiday, especially for listeners

33
00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,880
Speaker 1: outside the United States who probably have heard of it.

34
00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,640
Speaker 1: But you know you don't have in your own country. Well,

35
00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,160
Speaker 1: if you have it in Canada, you have it at

36
00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,440
Speaker 1: a different time of a year too, So really, I

37
00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,840
Speaker 1: didn't even know that Canadian Thanksgiving is so slightly different

38
00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,240
Speaker 1: than America. My ignorance has no bounds, But no Thanksgiving

39
00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,080
Speaker 1: is weird because I don't know, if you see it

40
00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:19,000
Speaker 1: this way, most holidays involve feasting as a feature of

41
00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,720
Speaker 1: the holiday, But Thanksgiving is the only holiday that is

42
00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:27,400
Speaker 1: about feasting. It seems like that is the content of

43
00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:31,240
Speaker 1: the holiday. Yeah, or at least the feasting aspect of

44
00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,399
Speaker 1: it has become so bloated that it eclipses everything else, right,

45
00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,360
Speaker 1: and and then likewise we become so bloated we eclipse

46
00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,400
Speaker 1: everything else as well. It's a tradition, and in the

47
00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,400
Speaker 1: spirit of continuing traditions, we're actually continuing a stuff to

48
00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:48,200
Speaker 1: blow your mind tradition here today with the third episode

49
00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,520
Speaker 1: in our Dangerous Food series, which is a sort of

50
00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,080
Speaker 1: cheeky look at foods that can actually have some negative

51
00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:59,840
Speaker 1: consequences if consumed under certain circumstances or uh, not consumed

52
00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,399
Speaker 1: in the right way, not prepared in the right way,

53
00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,800
Speaker 1: but also with an eye towards avoiding food panic. Right, Yeah, Like,

54
00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:08,760
Speaker 1: one of the important things to stress here is that

55
00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:12,880
Speaker 1: if you eat just about any food the wrong way, uh,

56
00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,000
Speaker 1: some bad stuff can happen. Yeah. Eating is sort of

57
00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:21,320
Speaker 1: like a really incredibly complicated chemistry experiment that you do

58
00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,080
Speaker 1: with your own life and your own health as the

59
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,359
Speaker 1: like as the potential outcomes of the experiment, certainly when

60
00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,840
Speaker 1: you eat another organism, you're going to encounter its unique biochemistry.

61
00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:36,280
Speaker 1: So with with an animal that might be it's you know,

62
00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:40,600
Speaker 1: venomous glands or or you know, yucky viscera or whatever

63
00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,880
Speaker 1: it was eating. Correct, Yeah, pollution that it's that is

64
00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,800
Speaker 1: entered into its system. But also just about any spice

65
00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,480
Speaker 1: and so many different uh plants that we consume. You

66
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,360
Speaker 1: also have to take into account what sort of uh

67
00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:58,800
Speaker 1: chemical weapons do they have as part of their biology

68
00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:01,400
Speaker 1: that we will be taking into ours. I don't know,

69
00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,440
Speaker 1: maybe you eat organisms. I I advocated an entirely synthetic

70
00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,320
Speaker 1: diet composed entirely of molecules fabricated in a lab. Or

71
00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,640
Speaker 1: what's the what's the soil and stuff? Right? Is that

72
00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:17,120
Speaker 1: made from organisms? Or is that just a complete, a

73
00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:20,080
Speaker 1: complete fabrication. You know, I'd actually have to assume that

74
00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,960
Speaker 1: almost anything you could eat is in some way derived

75
00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,440
Speaker 1: from an organism, even if it was never a living

76
00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,480
Speaker 1: plant or animal, it's a thing made from some kind

77
00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,040
Speaker 1: of plant or animal source. Yeah, we're not quite yet

78
00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,680
Speaker 1: at that Star Trek level of just push a few

79
00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,400
Speaker 1: buttons on a machine and it'll spit out an artificial

80
00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,920
Speaker 1: similacrum of of what you want to eat. Right, this

81
00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,000
Speaker 1: hamburger was not made from rocks. It might have been

82
00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,760
Speaker 1: made from plants, but not from rocks. So I see

83
00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,520
Speaker 1: people in the office drinking soilent, and it makes me

84
00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,720
Speaker 1: think that we might be there, that this might just be,

85
00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,240
Speaker 1: you know, a complete fabrication. It's brought here on a spaceship.

86
00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,440
Speaker 1: I guess. Obviously the answer is that we should do

87
00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,440
Speaker 1: a ten Hart series on soilent. Probably that's what the

88
00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,800
Speaker 1: people want. So if I'm just kidding folks, please don't

89
00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:09,600
Speaker 1: run away. Yeah, I mean, unless you're soilent and you

90
00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,120
Speaker 1: want to advertise on our show, then I guess yes, Um,

91
00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,159
Speaker 1: we'll see. But hey, well, we're gonna make a lot

92
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,440
Speaker 1: of enemies in uh in big big food nagrobusiness today.

93
00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,159
Speaker 1: So maybe once we've forever closed the door on getting

94
00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,240
Speaker 1: a sponsorship from Jolly ranchers or whatever, we can open

95
00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,560
Speaker 1: ourselves up to the to the evil soilent dollars. That's right. So,

96
00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,840
Speaker 1: as usual in this series, our goal here is not

97
00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:36,760
Speaker 1: to say oh at unusual foods or to cast as

98
00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:42,880
Speaker 1: xenophobic scorn on other culinary customs. Rather, these traditions are

99
00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:47,280
Speaker 1: fascinating and the risks associating associated with certain dishes. I

100
00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,280
Speaker 1: think they force us to re examine the foods that

101
00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,960
Speaker 1: we eat on a day to day basis. Yeah, they

102
00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,200
Speaker 1: force you to think about it in the terms I

103
00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,000
Speaker 1: brought up earlier, the fact that your diet, all the

104
00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:01,680
Speaker 1: food and drink you consume, is this ongoing chemistry experiment

105
00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,720
Speaker 1: with your body's health on the line. And most of

106
00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,760
Speaker 1: the time we really, I mean, we're we're playing kind

107
00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,240
Speaker 1: of fast and loose with this experiment. I mean we

108
00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,360
Speaker 1: we experiment on things because they taste good or because

109
00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,840
Speaker 1: they make you feel a certain way, not so much

110
00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,800
Speaker 1: because we've usually done deep research and exactly what the

111
00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:23,120
Speaker 1: chemical effects of them are once they enter our metabolism.

112
00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:27,960
Speaker 1: That's uh, that's something we find out, you know, decades

113
00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,440
Speaker 1: down the line in some cases, right, and you read

114
00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,080
Speaker 1: about in the British Medical Journal exactly. We'll take a

115
00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,760
Speaker 1: few fourays into that journal today. But first, for for

116
00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,200
Speaker 1: our first course in this multi course feast of potentially

117
00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,560
Speaker 1: dangerous foods, I think we should have dessert. Well, yeah,

118
00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,800
Speaker 1: let's let's do it. Let's start with dessert. Everything is

119
00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,320
Speaker 1: kind of super rich at Thanksgiving dinner anyway, So I've

120
00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,120
Speaker 1: always thought it doesn't matter what order you're taking it in,

121
00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,160
Speaker 1: right right, I mean, the sweet potato casserole is as

122
00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,880
Speaker 1: sweet as the dessert, and it served with the turkey.

123
00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:00,640
Speaker 1: So you know what's the difference. Are a sweet potato

124
00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,920
Speaker 1: cast role? Guy? It's a when I was a kid. Yes,

125
00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:06,400
Speaker 1: now I find it a bit too sweet. Yeah, I can't.

126
00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:08,760
Speaker 1: I can't do it. I can't deal with it. Okay,

127
00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,400
Speaker 1: Well I'll check you on another sweet food here, black

128
00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,960
Speaker 1: liquorice thumbs up, thumbs down. You've got thoughts, the black liquorice,

129
00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,920
Speaker 1: the candy like the black Twizzler. Yeah, the wax of

130
00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,920
Speaker 1: Belisle is that what they call it? Though this is

131
00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,200
Speaker 1: in the Demon Belisle. I think somebody calls in the

132
00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:30,480
Speaker 1: in the Wizard's Compendium. I I never had an appreciation

133
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:35,119
Speaker 1: for candy licorice, black licorice as a as a child,

134
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,760
Speaker 1: I always prefer the ultimately kind of equally grotesque twizzler candy,

135
00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,280
Speaker 1: the red Twizzler, you know, Oh yeah, it's just straight

136
00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:48,400
Speaker 1: up sugary. Doesn't have the kind of herbal bouquet of licorice. Yeah.

137
00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,000
Speaker 1: So the wax of Belisle is I think widely considered

138
00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:57,560
Speaker 1: a disgusting abomination. I can't so I'm weird because it's

139
00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,200
Speaker 1: often put in this family with other very similar or

140
00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:04,280
Speaker 1: flavors like annis and finnel and things like that. But

141
00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,400
Speaker 1: I like those flavors and I don't like black licorice,

142
00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:09,600
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure exactly what the difference is. Obviously

143
00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:13,760
Speaker 1: they've got some kind of flavor and aroma overlap, but

144
00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,760
Speaker 1: there's something about the black liquorice candy that just repels

145
00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,320
Speaker 1: me in a way that these other flavors don't. Well.

146
00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:21,760
Speaker 1: I mean, in one hand, you can say, like the

147
00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,240
Speaker 1: candy version of anything runs the risk of being grotesque

148
00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:29,200
Speaker 1: if at least you know to adult palettes or are

149
00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:30,840
Speaker 1: certainly I mean. The other thing you have to keep

150
00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,400
Speaker 1: in mind, too, is like when at what point in

151
00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,200
Speaker 1: human history you're eating liquorice. Are you eating liquorice when

152
00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,480
Speaker 1: it's one of the few choices for sweet candy, or

153
00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 1: if you are you eating or you eating it in

154
00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,920
Speaker 1: the age of Snickers and Jolly Ranchers and what have you,

155
00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,319
Speaker 1: where you have kind of like the crack cocaine of

156
00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,920
Speaker 1: sugar available and you don't have to turn to some

157
00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:55,199
Speaker 1: of these more traditional ways of getting your fix. I

158
00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,079
Speaker 1: hadn't thought about it like that. But of course, another

159
00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,360
Speaker 1: aspect of liquorice will discuss in a minute is that

160
00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,360
Speaker 1: it's not just consumed for the taste. People of long

161
00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,760
Speaker 1: thought that I had some kind of medicinal, nutritional, or

162
00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:10,000
Speaker 1: therapeutic value. I think that's debatable. Um, but yeah, we

163
00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:11,920
Speaker 1: can get to that in a minute. So I mentioned

164
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,080
Speaker 1: it's widely abhorred, but it's also widely beloved. There are

165
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:19,599
Speaker 1: people who really really love black liquorice. So uh. To

166
00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,480
Speaker 1: get us into thinking about the possible effects of black

167
00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,480
Speaker 1: liquorice on the body, I want to start with a

168
00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,080
Speaker 1: gym from one of my favorite genres of old news

169
00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,680
Speaker 1: articles to dig up, which is the Vault of strange

170
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:34,160
Speaker 1: food recalls. So in red Vines, you know the candy

171
00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,320
Speaker 1: company they make. Oh yes, yeah, they're kind of them,

172
00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:42,680
Speaker 1: like the B movie of Twizzlers. That's my opinion of them. Anyway.

173
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,839
Speaker 1: It's funny you mentioned movies because I think of them

174
00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,000
Speaker 1: exclusively as a candy people buy in movie theaters. Oh yeah,

175
00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,800
Speaker 1: that's where I would always encounter because used to eating

176
00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,240
Speaker 1: red Twizzlers at the movie. That was my thing, Like

177
00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:55,520
Speaker 1: that was that was the food that I would have

178
00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,600
Speaker 1: food quote unquote that I would get, and sometimes they

179
00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,960
Speaker 1: wouldn't have twizzlers in you before to have red vines,

180
00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,520
Speaker 1: And yeah, in my experience, if you go in expecting

181
00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:06,320
Speaker 1: twizzards and you get red vines, it's just not going

182
00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,079
Speaker 1: to be a satisfying experience. So you sit down to

183
00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,840
Speaker 1: see Highlander to the Quickening on opening night, you've got

184
00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,240
Speaker 1: your red vines, and you're a little bit disappointed. Yeah,

185
00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,720
Speaker 1: because it's just not quite what you wanted. Yeah. Well,

186
00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,360
Speaker 1: so in twelve, that company, they issued a recall of

187
00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,040
Speaker 1: black licorice quote twists, I guess those are the twisty

188
00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:31,000
Speaker 1: the chords, the whips because the California Department of Public

189
00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,560
Speaker 1: Health tested some bags and found they contained elevated levels

190
00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,520
Speaker 1: of drum roll lead. Oh that's not supposed to be there, No,

191
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,400
Speaker 1: probably not so. Guidelines at the time stated that children

192
00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,080
Speaker 1: and pregnant women should not be exposed to more than

193
00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,079
Speaker 1: six micrograms of lead a day. And then the bags

194
00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:51,200
Speaker 1: they tested, a single serving could contain more than thirteen

195
00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,600
Speaker 1: micrograms have lead. Uh, and who eats just a single

196
00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:56,880
Speaker 1: serving of anything? If you're at the movie theater, you

197
00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,840
Speaker 1: bought that bag. You're gonna eat that whole bag. Uh

198
00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,000
Speaker 1: And if so, if you're just hanging out pounding bag

199
00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:06,600
Speaker 1: after bag of licorice twists, that lead can really add up. Now. Fortunately,

200
00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,239
Speaker 1: I think this seemed to be like an incidental contaminant

201
00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,880
Speaker 1: in some bags of candy. Not a problem with liquorice

202
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,120
Speaker 1: in principle, but there are more fundamental issues with the

203
00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,440
Speaker 1: liquorice that might make you want to really think twice

204
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:22,360
Speaker 1: about potential licorice binges. Will introduce you to the plant,

205
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:24,880
Speaker 1: and then we'll come back to those things that might

206
00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,719
Speaker 1: give you second thoughts. Yeah, the liquors plant itself is

207
00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:30,800
Speaker 1: rather interesting, and uh, you know, I want to come

208
00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:32,360
Speaker 1: back for a second to what we were talking earlier

209
00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:36,320
Speaker 1: about the flavor of liquorice. So certainly, as a child,

210
00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,959
Speaker 1: I did not care for the licorice flavor. As I

211
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:45,719
Speaker 1: have progressed, hopefully progressed as an adult, I have acquired

212
00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:51,480
Speaker 1: a certain appreciation for liquorice flavoring in certain things if

213
00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,160
Speaker 1: it's mild enough. So there are there are a number

214
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,800
Speaker 1: of alcoholic beverages that have a liquorice flavor, and it varies.

215
00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:03,440
Speaker 1: There are some traditional middle Eastern licorice flavored drinks. Uh,

216
00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:05,800
Speaker 1: And I find those usually to be a bit too

217
00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,240
Speaker 1: strong in that flavor from me. Likewise, there's the whole

218
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:13,040
Speaker 1: realm of Jagermeister and whatnot, which is also something I

219
00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,400
Speaker 1: never developed a taste for. But in a well balanced

220
00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:21,120
Speaker 1: cocktail you often have a liquorice flavor that, if it's

221
00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,400
Speaker 1: balanced right works. Yeah. It has this kind of um,

222
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:29,840
Speaker 1: nice sweet but bitter herbal note. Uh. I think it's

223
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,040
Speaker 1: usually considered like an appartif like it sort of increases

224
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,480
Speaker 1: the appetite, maybe stimulates the production of bile or the

225
00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:39,839
Speaker 1: polast seems like it would. Yeah. Yeah, And and again

226
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,760
Speaker 1: if it's it's it's balanced properly, I find that it works.

227
00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,760
Speaker 1: So I turned to one of my favorite cocktail books,

228
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:51,200
Speaker 1: Amy Stewart's The Drunken Botanist, which is essentially a botany book. Uh.

229
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,120
Speaker 1: That's all about alcoholic beverages and different spirits and beer

230
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,600
Speaker 1: and wine, etcetera. It's killer. Yeah, it's it's a it's

231
00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,360
Speaker 1: a wonderful book. I'm always pulling it out the shelf

232
00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,400
Speaker 1: just to look up, you know, whatever I happen to

233
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,160
Speaker 1: be consuming. But she points out that there are a

234
00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,880
Speaker 1: number of botanical sources that produce just the liquorice flavor itself,

235
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:14,280
Speaker 1: and these include a knees star, a knees knees high stop,

236
00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,199
Speaker 1: Finnel high stop, and sweet seally. So there are many

237
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,280
Speaker 1: sources for the flavor itself, many quite unrelated to each other.

238
00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,679
Speaker 1: But what they have in common is is this substance.

239
00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,559
Speaker 1: This actually this molecule, the liquorice flavor molecule that's known

240
00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,199
Speaker 1: as an ethol. And it's soluble in alcohol but not

241
00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,360
Speaker 1: in water. So and it separates from the alcohol when

242
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,480
Speaker 1: water is added, causing a milky or green cloudiness which

243
00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,560
Speaker 1: you may have noticed if you've ever had a certain

244
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:47,920
Speaker 1: alcoholic beverages that have a a liquorice spirit in them. Oh, well,

245
00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,280
Speaker 1: you certainly see that in for example, Absence, which we

246
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:52,880
Speaker 1: talked about in the in the last episode where we

247
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,360
Speaker 1: where we talked about Amy Stewart and the Drunken Botanist

248
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:59,360
Speaker 1: Sails episode. Yeah, like you see that when it emulsifies

249
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,280
Speaker 1: in the water, reads this cloudy luche. Now, the liquorice

250
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:07,520
Speaker 1: plant itself, Glyceriza glabra is a small Southern European perennial

251
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,120
Speaker 1: and it's actually a type of bean according to Stewart,

252
00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,120
Speaker 1: that reaches two to three feet in height and it

253
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,480
Speaker 1: doesn't form a vine the p family. Yeah, and the

254
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,000
Speaker 1: root is the part that we harvest, and this is

255
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:23,480
Speaker 1: what contains the anthol as well as a natural sweetener.

256
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,960
Speaker 1: And the natural sweetener is glycerizon or glycerizic acid. So

257
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,240
Speaker 1: one of the funny things is I think that the

258
00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:35,320
Speaker 1: word licorice itself in English is a sort of way

259
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,640
Speaker 1: down the flow of the of the language game corruption

260
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:44,160
Speaker 1: of glyceriza, right, licorice glyceriza? Would it would it be

261
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,200
Speaker 1: more appropriate you think for that, like just sort of

262
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,200
Speaker 1: the taste sensation if we call it glicorice, you know,

263
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:53,840
Speaker 1: like licorice sounds like just a little too sumptuous. But

264
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,160
Speaker 1: if it was a go licorice, then that that that

265
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,640
Speaker 1: that more sums up my response to a really hard

266
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,400
Speaker 1: like rish flavor. Now that's an interesting psychology question. Why

267
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:08,320
Speaker 1: are some consonant sounds less appetizing than others? The hard

268
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,600
Speaker 1: g does not usually make my appetite leap up. Yeah, yeah,

269
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,400
Speaker 1: unless it's sufficiently fringe sounding, I think. But and then

270
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,880
Speaker 1: it then it maybe has lack up on the situation. Yeah. Well, anyway,

271
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,920
Speaker 1: so so we're talking about the plant, uh, glyceriza, and

272
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,120
Speaker 1: you said that the the licorice extract comes from the root.

273
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,320
Speaker 1: That's true. You take the roots of this plant, not

274
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,760
Speaker 1: the peas, not the beans in the pod, but the roots,

275
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,520
Speaker 1: and you grind the roots up, you boil them, and

276
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,840
Speaker 1: you produce this licorice juice, which you can then cram

277
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:42,000
Speaker 1: into all kinds of recipes, licorice candy. Licorice is widely

278
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,680
Speaker 1: used in tobacco products. Do you know that, Yeah, I

279
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,000
Speaker 1: was really Stewart mentions this that it's used to sort

280
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,800
Speaker 1: of mask the flavor of the of the cigarette or

281
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,440
Speaker 1: what have you. Yeah, and this is, uh, that's funny

282
00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,760
Speaker 1: that they would need to mask the flavor flavor country

283
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,960
Speaker 1: mask at all. But then also liquor flavorings are used

284
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,880
Speaker 1: to mask other flavors, for example, in medicines to cover

285
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,400
Speaker 1: the taste of the active compounds, which can often be

286
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:11,560
Speaker 1: bitter otherwise unpleasant tasting. Um. And somebody out there, I'm

287
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:16,040
Speaker 1: sure makes like artisanal liquorice mayonnaise. They're they're weird liquorice

288
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,560
Speaker 1: products all over the place. For example, did you know

289
00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,120
Speaker 1: in in places in Northern Europe, like in Finland, salty

290
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,200
Speaker 1: liquorice is a thing. Well, it's hard for me to

291
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:28,920
Speaker 1: imagine that, but I'm going to keep an open mind

292
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,600
Speaker 1: and and say that I could. I could see where

293
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,080
Speaker 1: that could be good. Yeah, okay, So where does the

294
00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,880
Speaker 1: liquorice danger come in? Assuming your liquorice has not been

295
00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:41,720
Speaker 1: contaminated with lead in A pair of doctor is named

296
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,320
Speaker 1: James Chamberlain and Igor A. Balnik published a case study

297
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,560
Speaker 1: in the Western Journal of Medicine, and here's what went

298
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,120
Speaker 1: down in their case. This previously healthy, sixty four year

299
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,680
Speaker 1: old man shows up at a Salt Lake City, v

300
00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 1: A hospital. He reports to them that he's had trouble

301
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,560
Speaker 1: breathing after exertion. The he's got shortness of breath when

302
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,280
Speaker 1: lying down, and he's got general fatigue. Now, if you

303
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,800
Speaker 1: are a medical professional out there and you're listening to that,

304
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,280
Speaker 1: you might be thinking like, okay, there could be signs

305
00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,399
Speaker 1: of congestive heart failure. Right. Tests showed that he was

306
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,720
Speaker 1: suffering from pulmonary edema. This is a condition when fluid

307
00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,159
Speaker 1: collects in your lungs, making it hard to breathe. And

308
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,320
Speaker 1: usually the reason this happens is congestive heart failure. But

309
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,879
Speaker 1: this man had no real signs of having a history

310
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,600
Speaker 1: of heart problems, and in the days leading up to

311
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,440
Speaker 1: the hospital visit, the man didn't report any changes to

312
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,800
Speaker 1: his behavior or diet, except one he'd been on a

313
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,080
Speaker 1: licorice bench. Over the past three days, he had eaten

314
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:43,359
Speaker 1: by himself a total of four packages of black licorice. Hershey, Twizzlers.

315
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,200
Speaker 1: This is about one thousand, twenty grams or about two

316
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,080
Speaker 1: point two four pounds of black licorice over three days. Well,

317
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,639
Speaker 1: you know, I I can't relate to the black Twizzlers

318
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,879
Speaker 1: on this, but uh, I can relate as far as

319
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,240
Speaker 1: red Twizzlers go. U. I said that I don't really

320
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,680
Speaker 1: eat Twizzlers much anymore, but occasionally I will give into

321
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,600
Speaker 1: the temptation. So you're lying. Yeah, I guess I was

322
00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:09,720
Speaker 1: lying to myself, really, because there was a time in

323
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,440
Speaker 1: the past couple of years where somebody brought a bunch

324
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,240
Speaker 1: of Twizzlers to the Dungeons and Dragons game and I

325
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,320
Speaker 1: kind of forgot that. I had a blood test the

326
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,639
Speaker 1: next day from my doctor's exam, and I ended up

327
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,640
Speaker 1: flunking my glucose glucose test because of all the twizzlers

328
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,840
Speaker 1: I'd eaten the night before and I had to like

329
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:32,240
Speaker 1: retake it later on after a you know, sane um

330
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,160
Speaker 1: consumption of sugar. So I feel him on the twizzler bench,

331
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:37,880
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. Do you think he ate two

332
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,240
Speaker 1: point two four pounds? Uh? You know, I I really

333
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:42,800
Speaker 1: don't want to do the math on that because I'm

334
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,600
Speaker 1: afraid about I might find well anyway, So, once they

335
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 1: knew that he had eaten all this liquorice, the doctors

336
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,760
Speaker 1: were able to say, oh, okay, we think we can

337
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,639
Speaker 1: pinpoint the problem. It's the licorice overdose. And so they

338
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,960
Speaker 1: treated him and they kept him in the hospital for

339
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,560
Speaker 1: a couple of days, and his symptoms disappeared. The pulmonaria

340
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,639
Speaker 1: demo went away. They did a new uh chest X ray.

341
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,639
Speaker 1: You could see his lungs were all cleared up, and

342
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,200
Speaker 1: he was fine. And he came back several months later

343
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:11,520
Speaker 1: checked in, had had no more problems of a similar nature.

344
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,560
Speaker 1: It appeared to just be the liquorice. The authors of

345
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,240
Speaker 1: this case study report that it's rare for a liquorice

346
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,680
Speaker 1: binge to lead to fluid collecting in the lungs, though

347
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:21,639
Speaker 1: they were able to find a few other cases of

348
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,480
Speaker 1: it in the literature. Only one other case was not

349
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:30,680
Speaker 1: associated with comorbid conditions, but excess consumption of liquorice has

350
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,159
Speaker 1: been linked to negative health effects such as hard a

351
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:38,200
Speaker 1: rhythmias and hypertension. So what's going on here, Well, the

352
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,120
Speaker 1: explanation seems to be that when a lot of black

353
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,640
Speaker 1: liquorice comes into the body, it sort of sets off

354
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:50,000
Speaker 1: a chemical chain reaction starting in your metabolism that makes

355
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 1: a crucial nutrient leave the body. So natural liquorice contains

356
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:58,439
Speaker 1: an ingredient as we mentioned before, called glycerizon or glycerizic acid,

357
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:03,200
Speaker 1: and when it gets metabolized, it eventually leads to the

358
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 1: renal system, especially the kidneys, purging potassium from the body.

359
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,200
Speaker 1: And one other side effect is that it tends to

360
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,600
Speaker 1: lead to increased sodium retention in the body, so your

361
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 1: body retains more sodium purges potassium. Medically, that's not good.

362
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,600
Speaker 1: A potassium deficiency in the blood is known as hypokalemia,

363
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,760
Speaker 1: and hypokalemia is bad news for your muscles, including your heart,

364
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 1: because the simple version is that your body uses potassium

365
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,639
Speaker 1: to regulate the electrochemical communication between nerves and muscle cells.

366
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,920
Speaker 1: Potassium is just very important for electro light balance in

367
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 1: your body. And if your electrolyte balance is off and

368
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,200
Speaker 1: you're not getting enough potassium, your cells can't communicate properly.

369
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,120
Speaker 1: So will a little bit of licorice hurt me? You're

370
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,440
Speaker 1: probably one if you're one of those people who does

371
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 1: not believe in the wax of belile but believes in

372
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,640
Speaker 1: the you know, the black manner from heaven. Uh, will

373
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,240
Speaker 1: a little bit hurt you? I'd say no, probably not,

374
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,679
Speaker 1: but you should be careful. You shouldn't overdo it. United

375
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 1: States FDA has said if you consume more than forty

376
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 1: grams of licorice a day for two weeks or more,

377
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,639
Speaker 1: you can start to get dangerously low levels of potassium.

378
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:17,080
Speaker 1: And forty grams that's not a whole lot. Yeah, certainly,

379
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,159
Speaker 1: certainly that you wouldn't want to binge on it, but

380
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,160
Speaker 1: that that's that's I would say, go light on the liquorice,

381
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 1: would be that. The take home from this, Yeah, don't

382
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 1: don't binge on it, and probably probably shouldn't eat it

383
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,119
Speaker 1: every day, even if you only eat a little. Right,

384
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,400
Speaker 1: there's a whole world of candies out there. You don't

385
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,480
Speaker 1: have to just go all in on the liquorice. But

386
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 1: there is some good news. So if you are a

387
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 1: liquorice fan, not all candies or products labeled licorice actually

388
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 1: contain natural liquorice extract the stuff that poses the risk. Right.

389
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 1: We we mentioned all the various other places you can

390
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 1: get the liquorice flavoring. Yeah, so a lot of things

391
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 1: that are labeled licorice or actually just products flavored with

392
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,480
Speaker 1: something like annus oil or other things that contain these

393
00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,360
Speaker 1: similar herbal compounds that taste like licorice, but they don't

394
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 1: pose the same risk from the glycerizic acid. So you

395
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,920
Speaker 1: can research your products on your own, try to find

396
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,439
Speaker 1: out what goes in them, and make your decisions accordingly. Now,

397
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 1: on one hand, we don't like to be alarmist. We

398
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,159
Speaker 1: don't like to say, you know, oh this food scary,

399
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 1: it's gonna hurt you. But some scientists recently have taken

400
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 1: a fairly harsh view of whether people should really be

401
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: consuming natural liquorice extract. One study I found by Hesham

402
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,160
Speaker 1: r omar at All, published in Therapeutic Advances and into

403
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:37,600
Speaker 1: Chronology and Metabolism, had made the following statements quote despite

404
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: its apparent use in a few clinical scenarios, the daily

405
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 1: consumption of liquorice is never justified because it's benefits are

406
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,960
Speaker 1: minor compared to the adverse outcomes of chronic consumption. And

407
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 1: then they also say, quote increased awareness among the public

408
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 1: is required through TV commercials, newspapers, internet sites, magazines, and

409
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 1: product labels regarding the upper limb bit of ingestion and

410
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 1: health hazards associated with excess intake. So run out onto

411
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,360
Speaker 1: the streets and and just yell at people like it's

412
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 1: the like it's the closing moments of invasion of the

413
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,439
Speaker 1: body snatchers, and and say don't eat the liquorice. I mean,

414
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,439
Speaker 1: if you wanted to start a pernicious rumor to get

415
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: the job done, you could just suggest that licorice is people. Now.

416
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,719
Speaker 1: I like what you've mentioned earlier about the like annis

417
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,680
Speaker 1: and star Annis being an ingredient some of the flavoring,

418
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 1: because ultimately that sounds classier, right, I mean, that's that

419
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: has more of a culinary feel to it. I feel

420
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 1: like if someone were to say, hey, do you want

421
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 1: some liquorice candy or would you like some star Annis

422
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 1: oil infused, you know, hard candy. I would say, oh,

423
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 1: we'll give me some of that, give me some of

424
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: some of the second option, because that sounds like a

425
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,640
Speaker 1: nice craft candy. I totally see what you're saying there.

426
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,440
Speaker 1: That makes me think that partially my aversion to licorice

427
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 1: candy is is like a learned thing or something like that.

428
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 1: Because if somebody says, do you want some black liquorice,

429
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: I'm like, get out of my house. If somebody's like,

430
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: would you like some Star and East candy, I'd be like, oh, yeah,

431
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,280
Speaker 1: I'll try it. Yeah, all right, now I have just

432
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 1: a couple more things about liquorice to throw in here.

433
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: So back in two thousand nine, chemist in Taiwan found

434
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: that an ingredient in liquorice blocked the absorption of cyclosporing,

435
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 1: a drug that helps prevent organ rejection in transplant patients.

436
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: Huh so this is this, This was rather interesting, but

437
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: I should I should definitely drive home that the prospect

438
00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: of liquorice complicating organ transplants. That was a new idea

439
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 1: at the time, but it was hardly the only substance

440
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: that was known to uh that to complicate transplants. So

441
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 1: a lot of things can mess with that, right, including

442
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 1: things like onions, ginger, ginko. There's just a name a

443
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: few soians. That's that's that's what I read. That's a

444
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 1: big hit man. Yeah, I mean people, I would love

445
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: to hear from anyone out there who has received an

446
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 1: oregan transplanters had to sort of alter their their diet

447
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: or lifestyle to accommodate that. But but but yeah, I

448
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: don't want to make it sound like liquorice is the

449
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: only thing that can unbalance the scenario. On the upside,

450
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 1: I also ran across a two thousand ten study that

451
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 1: was published in the journal Leucocyte Biology, and they reported

452
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: that liquorice route might just word off a rare and

453
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 1: deadly infection that can stem from severe burns. So, in

454
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 1: this study, scientists from the University of Texas Medical Branch

455
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: and Shiner's Hospital found that that glues arise and boosted

456
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: the damaged skins production of proteins UH called anti microbial peptides.

457
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 1: So you know, there's so that's one week. At some

458
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: points we can put up on the scoreboard for liquorice

459
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: UH in safeguarding our health. Alright, so we don't want

460
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: to scare you off liquorice entirely, but make your liquorice

461
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 1: decisions intelligently. Be an intelligent consumer of the wax of Belisle.

462
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 1: All right, are we done talking about candy? Should we

463
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: go onto something more interest? Yeah, we should have something

464
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: we could need some protein, that's what we need, Joe. Okay,

465
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and when we come back

466
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: we will discuss the meat of the amphibioid. All Right,

467
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 1: we're back. So, Joe, have you ever eaten frog legs? Honestly,

468
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: I'm kind of embarrassed to say this because I like

469
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: to think of myself as an adventurous eater. But no,

470
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: I don't think I've had the frog legs. Well I have,

471
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,160
Speaker 1: I have not had them recently, but I have had

472
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 1: fried frog legs in the past. What do you think

473
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 1: I remember liking them, But it was kind of at

474
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 1: at an age where I liked anything that was fried

475
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: up in a skullet. So I don't I don't know.

476
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: I imagine, you know, everything fried is essentially good. It

477
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 1: hits several key areas for for our taste, you know.

478
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: So I imagine there's some really delicious frog legs out there,

479
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: but I have not necessarily tried them. Now, I hate

480
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 1: to invoke the cliche, but did it taste like, you

481
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 1: know what, like like chicken? Right? Yeah, I guess I

482
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: mean every that I mean it's it's the cliche. But

483
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: I have found that a lot of non non chicken,

484
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: non beef, non pork meats do kind of taste like chicken.

485
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: I guess that's like our easiest analog for uh you know,

486
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: a variety of amphibians and reptiles. Like I felt like

487
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: that was the same way when I had what alligator

488
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: wants in New Orleans. But but it's a similar scenario

489
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: to where first of all, if it's fried up, that

490
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: kind of maskle out of the flavor, and if you're

491
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 1: primed to think it tastes like chicken, then are we

492
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 1: just looking for those connections in the flavor profile. Maybe

493
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: it's not that it tastes much like chicken, but we

494
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 1: just don't have that many other meats to compare it to. Yeah,

495
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: it could be. So this next selection does take us

496
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 1: to the world of frogs, and specifically it takes us

497
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: to the African nation of uh Namibia. Not to be

498
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: confused with the non existent nation of Nambia, which has

499
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,680
Speaker 1: been in the news recently. Uh you'll find it. You'll

500
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 1: find it on the northwest border of South Africa on

501
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: the Atlantic Ocean. It's home to about two point one

502
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: million people. They're five major ethnic groups and the dominant

503
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: religion is Christian and it's UH and uh it owes

504
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: this to its colonial history. Now, as far as cuisine goes,

505
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 1: UH millet and maize or staple foods, accompanied by indigenous

506
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: vegetables beef, lam mutton, fish. But like many cultures around

507
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: the world, they also enjoy a little frog from time

508
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 1: to time. Which I was looking into this and I

509
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: found it a little surprising. I didn't know much about

510
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: like global food customs with frogs. Uh a lot of people.

511
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: I think you think of French cuisine, you may think

512
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 1: of Cantonese cuisine. These are both areas where frogs are

513
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: often considered delicacies. But you encounter them in just all

514
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,959
Speaker 1: over the world. Like people have long realized that when

515
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: there are frogs around, there's a good chance you can

516
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: eat their legs, their meaty legs. I wonder to what

517
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: extent the regions cultivation of frog as a food item

518
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: is correlated with the extent to which frogs are an

519
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,960
Speaker 1: invasive pest in the area and not invasive to past. Yeah,

520
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: well we'll see that in this example. I also couldn't help.

521
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: But wonder do we see less frog legs being consumed

522
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: maybe in the US based on the Muppet movie because

523
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: we had Doc Hoppers French fried frog legs restaurant, and there,

524
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 1: of course trying to kill kermit. Yeah, or and or

525
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: make him sell out his species. That's an unspeakable crime. Yeah,

526
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 1: it is. You can't eat sentient frogs that sing, indeed,

527
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: not with pipes like that. Now in uh now, maybe

528
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: the giant African bullfrog is the Amphibian delicacy of choice.

529
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: Pixa cephalis ad spursus ad spurs is a k A

530
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: giant pixie frog. Yeah. It's also known locally as ifuma

531
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: or in the plural oma fuma. And what makes it

532
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: interesting is that Namibian traditions call for more of the

533
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: frog to be eaten than is common in a lot

534
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: of other cultures. So not just the legs, right, it's

535
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 1: more of a it's more in keeping with how other

536
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: cultures would eat and you know American culture too would

537
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: eat a fish or chicken. You know, you would essentially

538
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: gut the creature and then use the remnants cook that up.

539
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: So I was reading from a book for this Indigenous

540
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: Knowledge of Namibia edited by Casilla see Chin Simbu. And

541
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 1: it's not just Namibians that that enjoy this frog. The

542
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: frog is widely distributed throughout southern and eastern Africa, and

543
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: the Nassinga people of eastern Zambia they consume it whole

544
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: as well, and they call it quote kanyama kalaisi fupa

545
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: the animal without bones. Now they do have bones, but

546
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: one of the apparely interesting things about cooked frog meat

547
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: is that it separates very easily from the bones. So

548
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: these are these frogs, the giant African bullfrog. They're plentiful

549
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: in the rainy season, so they're just everywhere that it

550
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: kind of gets into that pest area. It's like, there

551
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: are frogs all over the ice. Should we not try

552
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: and eat them, which seem to be the natural human

553
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: inclination at least make a stock, right, Yeah, And the

554
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: thing is that they're they're relatively easy to catch and

555
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 1: can catch them by hand. Often they're caught by children.

556
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: They can inflict a nasty bite if you're not careful.

557
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: And I've read that this is the only example of

558
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: an amphibian that can cause uh, this is how it

559
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: was phrased in this paper. Is looking at actual mechanical trauma. So, uh,

560
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 1: the other bite can be a little bit nasty if you,

561
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: you know, you don't know how to to to catch one.

562
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: I've never thought about that. Are there no other frogs

563
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: that can really bite you good? Yeah, I was trying

564
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: to think about. I mean, I grew up in in

565
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: rural Tennessee and we were always catching frogs and stuff,

566
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: and I don't remember ever being bit by one. So

567
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: the only mechanical attack I can think of I've ever

568
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: witnessed a frog inflicting is pooping on you, which they

569
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: do quite a lot. Yeah, I guess that's just it's

570
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: more of like a chemical base attack though, right there.

571
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: But yeah, generally the frogs defenses are running away or

572
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: being grows uh, or or of course having actual toxins.

573
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: But in terms of like actually causing a physically painful bite, yeah,

574
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: this may be the only only example. So what they

575
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: do is they catch the frogs they you know, they

576
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: corral them, and when it comes time to cook them.

577
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: They clean them, they gut them. They removed the viscera

578
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: as well as the tongue, which is especially frowned upon,

579
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: the upper jaw, and the palate, all of which is

580
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: considered inedible. The fat is either left in or it's

581
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: removed to cook separately, depending on the specific culinary tradition.

582
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:35,719
Speaker 1: Then the frogs are boiled in the similar you might

583
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: boil other meats such as fish uh, though they sometimes

584
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: throw in medicinal plants, and it's thought that this decreases

585
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: the chances of osh queta keta, which I've also seen

586
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: written as osce uh catacatta. And this is what happens

587
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: to you, This is what can happen to your body

588
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: if you eat the frogs too early. So it was

589
00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: also it's also worth knowing there was a long stand

590
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 1: tradition not to spice the frogs or to fry them,

591
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 1: because it would make them look unappealing. They seem to

592
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: prefer the frogs to look as much like a frog

593
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: as possible, not sliced up, not spiced, and not fried.

594
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: I found that interesting. Well, I think that is an

595
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: interesting idea in uh in culinary traditions around the world.

596
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 1: I mean you see that as a major division in

597
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 1: the way American food is served today. There's sort of

598
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: like the do you want to have the food completely

599
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: d natured and appear as a product where you can't

600
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: recognize the animal or the plant it came from, or

601
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: do you want to sort of like see it as

602
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 1: close to as it would look when it was alive

603
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: as possible. Yeah, I think shrimp or a fine example

604
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: of this. I was thinking about this the other night

605
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: because I was out with my family and uh, we

606
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: ordered a shrimp dish and the shrimp came out with

607
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: their heads on and everything, which which it kind of

608
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: has two different messages. Like if you don't want to

609
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: think of the shrimp as an animal, then I can

610
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: see where that could be unpleasant to gaze upon. But

611
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: if you want to think of the shrimp as not

612
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: only an animal, but a fresh animal that you're getting

613
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,440
Speaker 1: pretty you know, pretty early in the supply chain, then

614
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: the head can be a way too to be sure

615
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: of that. You know, if you feel more like this

616
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: is fresh shrimp if it still has legs and a

617
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: head and its shell, as opposed to just kind of

618
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,439
Speaker 1: like a a pink comma that you have that you've

619
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,959
Speaker 1: you bought on a massive platter at a grocery store.

620
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:33,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I think I've said this on the show before,

621
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: but I often think one of the appeals of breaded

622
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: fried foods is not just the taste that it's you know,

623
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,320
Speaker 1: oily and crunchy and textually pleasing and all that, but that,

624
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: especially to children, it sort of masks the nature of

625
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: the animal that the food comes from. And so when

626
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: you have breaded fried food products, it has it somehow

627
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,320
Speaker 1: tames what you're eating. Does that make sense? No? No,

628
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: I agree. I've been through through a lot of this

629
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: with my son because he he you know, pretty early on,

630
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: decided that he did not want to eat meats unless

631
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: they were like shrimp, oysters, crabs. He's essentially a pscytarian

632
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: um and and he has absolutely no problem eating like

633
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 1: he'll look at a live crab and talk about how

634
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,920
Speaker 1: much he wants to eat it, you know, but that

635
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: that he has you know, thus thus far, you know,

636
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 1: refused to eat you know, poultry, um, and certainly cows

637
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: and pigs, and we you know try and we try

638
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 1: and honor that as much as possible. Um. But in

639
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: this particular case, I can't help, but suspect I couldn't

640
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 1: find any sources that really spoke to this, but I

641
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: wonder if they're their Their insistence on the frog looking

642
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: like a frog has to do with avoiding the the

643
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: sickness that can ensue if you eat it when it's

644
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: too young. Yes, uh so, let me go get into ocean,

645
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: get it. Get a little bit um. What comes of

646
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 1: eating juvenile frogs or eating them too early in the season.

647
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: The symptoms here are a lot like skistosomiasis, which is

648
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: caused by a parasitic flat worm that's found in freshwater snails.

649
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's yeah, not pleasant. The symptoms here are

650
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 1: acute inflammation, pain while urinating bloody urine, and even temporary

651
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 1: kidney failure. Yike. So why why does the why does

652
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 1: the young frog like? What does the youngness of the

653
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: frog have to do with this? This seems to be

654
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: a question that we don't have a firm answer for yet,

655
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: or at least I was not able to find it.

656
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: If anyone else out there has a firm answer, I

657
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: would love to hear it. But basically, everyone knows that

658
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 1: there are certain steps you can take to avoid it.

659
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: You don't harvest too early when the frogs are not

660
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: mature enough. Specifically, you don't harvest visually immature frogs, frogs

661
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: that haven't croaked yet uh, and or frogs before the

662
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: third rainfall. And there's also this added step of cooking

663
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: them with medicinal ingredients, cooking them with medis in the woods, uh,

664
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: specifically to help mitigate the effects. Is it known if

665
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: that's actually effective. It doesn't seem to be known. Likewise,

666
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 1: so when when people uh end up growing sick with

667
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: the ocean kata kata, they'll seek medical intervention. And it's

668
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: also ensured whether this really helps or it's just something

669
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 1: that kind of has to go away on its own. Uh.

670
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: So again, there's not a lot of information out there

671
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: in the particulars here, but there are a few theories

672
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,960
Speaker 1: as to what's going on. When you look for answers

673
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: on this for starters, you'll find a number of kind

674
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: of just article list articles out there. They just say that, okay,

675
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: it's it's a poison. Uh there's some sort of poison

676
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: in the frog. Um. I'm not sure if I'm is

677
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,320
Speaker 1: convinced about that, because clearly it's it's it's only a

678
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: problem with the immature frogs. Right, I've seen it speculated

679
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: that it might be a bacterial infection caused by the

680
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 1: younger frogs. Uh. But I also keep coming back to

681
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: this idea that it's some sort of a parasite like

682
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 1: seems to be the area where the symptoms line up

683
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: um closely. I've also read a paper that said that

684
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: cases of international travelers becoming sick after consuming raw fish

685
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: or quote unusual meats such as bull frog meat, that

686
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 1: they would likely result in a diagnosis of nathosomiasis. This

687
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,879
Speaker 1: is an infection caused by a nematode. Uh. And it's

688
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like a decent like broad clinical analysis,

689
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,399
Speaker 1: but I looked at the symptoms. The symptoms don't really

690
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 1: line up there. Uh, it doesn't the whole you know,

691
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 1: painful urination, bloody urine, and uh, contemporary kidney failure. So

692
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: the jury seems to remain out on what exactly causes

693
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: the illness. But to me, this sounds like another one

694
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 1: of these cases where if you eat the food prepared

695
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 1: the right way, the way you know, the local people

696
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: who developed this cuisine know how to prepare it, you're

697
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 1: probably gonna be all right. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't seem

698
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: like I didn't find any articles that were saying, oh,

699
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: this is this is this is really a danger, this

700
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: is a public health risk, which is also why you're

701
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 1: not seeing a lot of studies into it. It's not

702
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: like someone's in the field saying, we have to we

703
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 1: have to help, you know, we we've got to solve

704
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: this problem, because no, like local culinary traditions already have

705
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 1: the problem solved. If you if you just know which

706
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,320
Speaker 1: frogs to eat and which ones not to eat, and

707
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: or how to properly prepare them. But I think I

708
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: wonder about the whole again, about the whole. Don't fry them,

709
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 1: don't chop them up. That might be because if you

710
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: were buying them from a food seller, which apparently, uh,

711
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 1: you know, these are prepared in the home, but also

712
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: sometimes they are sold. It does make sense that you

713
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: might want to be able to look at the frog

714
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: you're about to eat and know for certain that it

715
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: was not an immature specimen. If that's going to make

716
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: a difference in your health, that makes sense to me.

717
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: All Right, I'm going to take us back to the

718
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 1: plant world. Robert, Okay, Yeah, we've had enough meat here

719
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 1: for the time being, or if you want more meat,

720
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: you could just say, maybe it's time for the chili course. Yes, okay,

721
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 1: So time to look at a case study in the

722
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:02,720
Speaker 1: British Medical Journal from n teen eighty by Normandy Noah

723
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 1: at All that reviews some curious cases of food poisoning

724
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 1: with a with a common factor between them. So the

725
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 1: first case study mentioned in this report sounds like about

726
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: as bleak an evening as you could ask for. In

727
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six, you got seventeen schoolboys, all about seventeen

728
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: years old, on holiday, chaper owned by three of their teachers,

729
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: staying in a hostel. It gets bleaker. They come back

730
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 1: for dinner one night and they're supposed to have some

731
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: roast chicken. But the chicken was quote found to be

732
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: unfit to eat. And that's all it says. I love

733
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: the gaps in these case reports you could just leave

734
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: up to the imagination. Was it unfit to eat because

735
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: it smelled like a dumpster? Was it unfit to eat

736
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 1: because it was cooked to leather? Yea? How how far

737
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: into the meal did they get before this was the pronouncement? Right?

738
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 1: So anyway, chickens unfit to eat? So instead they threw

739
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: together an alternative supper made for um the following ingredients.

740
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: They had a salad, They had hard boiled eggs, cooked potatoes,

741
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 1: and raw red kidney beans that have been soaking in

742
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 1: a saucepan since the night before. Okay, sounds pretty good. Huh. Well,

743
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm instantly suspicious of that last dish. I'm curious, Robert,

744
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: when you make beans in your house, I assume you

745
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 1: make beans. Oh yeah, yeah, we we do. We do

746
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: bean dishes from time to time. Yeah. Do you generally

747
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: do you just like go to a can, open a can,

748
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 1: or do you soak them from dried and cook them

749
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,439
Speaker 1: from them? We we've done both. I guess we tend

750
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: to do. We tend to do the can thing more often.

751
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: But like in the past, people have gifted us, like

752
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: some really nice what is it rancho gordo beans? Dried

753
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: beans you have to go through the whole rigmarole of

754
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: soaking them and so forth. You. I never did dried

755
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,919
Speaker 1: beans for a long time. Always whenever I was making beans,

756
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: just used can beans. But hey, cooks out there at home.

757
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,560
Speaker 1: If you're the same way, if you if you haven't

758
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,040
Speaker 1: tried rind beans, I think they're way better. I would agree,

759
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,359
Speaker 1: And I would say that it's always a you can

760
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 1: tell a lot by particularly like a Mexican restaurant. I

761
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: feel when you taste their their beans, just like the

762
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 1: black beans and the refried beans, like you can you

763
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: can taste the difference. Uh, if they're giving this much

764
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: attention to the bean dish, then it probably botes well

765
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 1: for the rest of the menu. Yeah. And and good

766
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: beans are good stuff. I think they often get thought

767
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: of as like part of you know, something to sort

768
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,479
Speaker 1: of fill part of the plate. But but good beans

769
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: are really good and if you if you give them

770
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: the right kind of care, you soak them, you cook

771
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: them long enough, and they become nice and tender. You know,

772
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: cooking from dried beans is the way to go. But

773
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,320
Speaker 1: back to the case studies, so they did not follow

774
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: these instructions. They did go from dried beans, but they

775
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 1: didn't cook them. They just used these soaked uncooked beans.

776
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 1: The case study says these soaked uncooked beans were quote

777
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: not popular. Only nine of the seventeen boys ate a

778
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,279
Speaker 1: significant quantity of them. About an hour to an hour

779
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 1: and a half after eating. Interstage left, the evil gods

780
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 1: of nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Nine of the boys got sick,

781
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:09,480
Speaker 1: two had to be admitted to the hospital, and one

782
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 1: had to be given an IVY infusion while in the hospital.

783
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 1: Fortunately none of them died. They all recovered, and the

784
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: doctors studying what caused the outbreak were unable to find

785
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: evidence of microbial pathogens like E. Coli or salmonella that

786
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: you'd normally see if that was the cause. Uh, And

787
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 1: they weren't able to find evidence of any chemical contaminants

788
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 1: to explain what made the boys sick. And after you

789
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 1: combine this case with other observations, it starts to become

790
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 1: clear that something about undercooked kidney beans itself was the problem,

791
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: because other patients had been documented with similar histories. Eating raw,

792
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 1: soaked or lightly cooked red kidney beans has this history

793
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: of bringing forth the nausea, the vomiting, the copious diarrhea.

794
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 1: So what's going on there? Well, the kidney bean is

795
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 1: a variety of the common being Phaseolus vulgaris. It's the

796
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,839
Speaker 1: same species as pinto beans, navy beans, and so forth,

797
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: just a different strain produced by the genetic engineering of agriculture. Well,

798
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: the uncooked beans, the authors found include toxins such as

799
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 1: quote hema glutenins, trips and inhibitors, a goiter, erogen, and

800
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: cyanogenic glycosides. And they're right, quote that the hema gluten

801
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: ins where the cause of the vomiting and the diarrhea

802
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 1: appears likely. So hema glutenin is a lectin. Electin is

803
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: a type of protein that binds to sugar molecules, and

804
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,360
Speaker 1: you'll find them in beans. What effect does it have

805
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 1: on the body, Well, it's it's sort of there in

806
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: the name, right, hema gluten in. It causes red blood cells,

807
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: the hematic cells to a glutinate to clump together, and

808
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 1: it's so it clumps to the red blood cells. Kind

809
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 1: of gross. Other substances also have hemaglutenin properties. For example,

810
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,320
Speaker 1: one reason the influence of virus can be so effective

811
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: is that it has these proteins that work is hemogluten

812
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: ins in the blood. And the authors of the study

813
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: note that in cases when raw red and white kidney

814
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:07,800
Speaker 1: beans have been fed to rats as eight percent of

815
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,959
Speaker 1: their diet by mass, the rats tended to die within

816
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: three days. But when the hemagluten ins from red kidney

817
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: means were isolated and fed to the rats, the rats

818
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 1: also lost weight and died. So even if you just

819
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: took the hemagluten ins out and gave that to the rats,

820
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: that seemed to have the same effect. And the authors

821
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: also note that the extreme toxin ric in, which is

822
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 1: found in castor beans, and we've talked about before that

823
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: that is also a hemagluten in. So the active toxins

824
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: and raw red kidney beans appear to be destroyed pretty

825
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: easily by sufficient heat heating. Just boil the beans, which

826
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: would seem you know, reather straightforward like cook your beans,

827
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, And other studies have confirmed the role of

828
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 1: raw undercook kidney beans and food poisoning outbreaks. Um, the

829
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: bottom line is, if you boil your beans for a while,

830
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,799
Speaker 1: they'll be fine. Obviously you don't want to eat them raw.

831
00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 1: But here's actually the real danger, the thing that might

832
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,879
Speaker 1: get you if you're not some kind of weird person

833
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 1: who wants to eat raw red kidney beans, low temperature

834
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:10,400
Speaker 1: cooking could be a danger. So if, for example, you

835
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 1: put your beans in the slow cooker and you put

836
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 1: it on the low setting and you give them a

837
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: couple hours, it's possible that they will never reach the

838
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:21,919
Speaker 1: internal temperature required to destroy the toxic lectins that could

839
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 1: make you six. So cook them thoroughly, cook them to

840
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,359
Speaker 1: the boiling point high temperature. And uh and of course,

841
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 1: if you're using canned beans, those are already boiled, so

842
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,240
Speaker 1: they'll be fine. But if you want to treat yourself

843
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: to the delights of of well cooked beans from the

844
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 1: dried state, boil them well. With with increased taste comes

845
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: increased responsibility. Right. Yeah, I was actually invited to, uh,

846
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 1: you know, an amateur chili cookoff recently, and now I've

847
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: now I'm hesitating, But at the same time, I'm like

848
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 1: most of the people participating, they're probably gonna use canned beans, right,

849
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: or if they're gonna use dry beans, then they're gonna

850
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: know what's up. They're gonna know how to approach the dish. Well,

851
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 1: I mean, i'd say surely they'll they'll boil them that

852
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 1: I would be shocked if somebody makes a chili and

853
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:10,720
Speaker 1: like ads ads soaked beans right before serving it without

854
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: boiling them or something. That would be a really last

855
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: minute you know, they just that they didn't have time

856
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,279
Speaker 1: to actually kick it. Yeah, alright, So we we've had

857
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: we've had three dishes. So far, We've had our liquorice,

858
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:28,240
Speaker 1: We've we've had our bullfrog, we've had our beans. Nobody

859
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 1: has died jet or at least we haven't specifically reference

860
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: to study that included a fatality. No. I feel like

861
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 1: a lot of the foods that will kill you we

862
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 1: already knocked out in previous dangerous foods episodes. I mean,

863
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 1: most of the time, if something will kill you reliably

864
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: enough for people to write about it, it's not a

865
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: common food, right, Yeah, And there's not like a very

866
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 1: common and accepted way to avoid Uh, that's sort of

867
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:53,919
Speaker 1: that sort of death. So mainly I guess we're talking

868
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:55,800
Speaker 1: about stuff that will make you sick. But hey, what

869
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 1: about stuff that will make you see into the future. Oh,

870
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 1: that sounds good. Let's take one more commercial break, and

871
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 1: when we come back, we will have some hallucinogenic fish

872
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: than Alright, we're back, Robert. Do you want to talk

873
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 1: about fish madness? Sure, it sounds delightful. I want to

874
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 1: look at a couple of case studies from a two

875
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: thousand six paper in the Journal Clinical Toxicology by Luke

876
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: to Harrow and Philip Palmier, And here are the cases.

877
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: So In April nineteen, a healthy forty year old man

878
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,320
Speaker 1: was on vacation in the French Riviera in con and

879
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 1: one night, after eating a dinner of delicious baked sea bream.

880
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: Actually I can't comment on how delicious it was. I

881
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 1: assume it was delicious. Yeah, I mean, considering where he's

882
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 1: eating it, right, it must be a very classy dish. Sure. Yeah,

883
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: so baked seabream. He starts to feel weak and then nauseated,

884
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 1: and he starts to vomit during the night. And the

885
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 1: next day he tries to drive himself home, you know,

886
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 1: getting back home from the vacation, but he encountered a problem.

887
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 1: On the way home. His car was surrounded by quote

888
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 1: giant Arthur pods. Oh my, so this is not just

889
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,800
Speaker 1: mild hallucination here where everything's a little wavy, like he's

890
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 1: seeing giant insects. No, he's not seeing like tracers and

891
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 1: you know, like light auras around things. No, he's seeing

892
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,840
Speaker 1: giant Arthur pods surrounding his vehicle, full naked line. Okay,

893
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: And so of course these giant Arthur pods were preventing

894
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 1: him from driving home, and he went on to experience

895
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 1: terrifying hallucinations involving quote aggressive and screaming animals, agitated and confused,

896
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:39,359
Speaker 1: he somehow arrived at a hospital emergency room, and once there,

897
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 1: though he was in the state of stress and excitation,

898
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: he really didn't show any physical abnormalities. They couldn't find

899
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 1: anything wrong with his body other than the fact that

900
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 1: he was freaking out and stressed out and distressed. So

901
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 1: the hospital kept him for a couple of days and

902
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,840
Speaker 1: after about thirty six hours his hallucinations had disappeared. Another

903
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 1: case March two thousand two, and to really healthy otherwise,

904
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,440
Speaker 1: ninety year old man bought some sea bream from a

905
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,600
Speaker 1: local fisherman at a place called santra Pez, again in

906
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 1: the French Riviera. He took it home, he cleaned it,

907
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 1: he prepared it, and he ate it. About two hours

908
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:17,919
Speaker 1: after his meal, he started hearing strange noises. He heard

909
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 1: humans screaming all around him, and he heard the sound

910
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 1: of shrieking birds. And he experienced these hallucinations and had

911
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: terrible nightmares for about two or three days and then

912
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 1: it all went away. Now, initially he didn't report the

913
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 1: symptoms because he was afraid it was the onset of

914
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 1: a permanent mental illness. And side note, if you're experiencing

915
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 1: unexpected hallucinations, whatever you think the cause might be, it

916
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: is better to tell somebody and try to get help. Yeah,

917
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: I don't just say I guess that had some weird

918
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,280
Speaker 1: fish right now, because that's that's exactly what Ebenezer Scrooge

919
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: would do, right, just blaming on the potato that you

920
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:53,439
Speaker 1: could be a bit of cheese. Yeah. But anyway, after

921
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 1: all this was over, he remembered hearing from someone at

922
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 1: the fish market that the sea bream, the fish he

923
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 1: had eaten, had been owned to cause hallucinations in the past,

924
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:05,320
Speaker 1: and on that basis he called poison control in Marseille.

925
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,759
Speaker 1: So in both cases, the fish the men had eaten

926
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: was this species of sea bream called Sarpa salpa, also

927
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 1: known as the Salima porgy or the goldline. And I

928
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,760
Speaker 1: think this is because it has these little yellow gold stripes.

929
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: Nothing to do with that company that hawks gold on TV.

930
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: The authors of this paper note that these are not

931
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 1: the only cases of hallucinogenic fish poisoning known uh and

932
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 1: the by the way, the scientific term for hallucinogenic fish

933
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,440
Speaker 1: poisoning I hope I do this right is Ichthyolino tox

934
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: is um, and it's widespread throughout tropical regions of the

935
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 1: Indian and Pacific Ocean, sometimes in the Mediterranean. Widespread but

936
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,479
Speaker 1: not necessarily common, so you see it all over the place,

937
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: but it does appear to be rare. It's not something

938
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 1: like if you go to the tropics you can just

939
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 1: expect to get fish madness um. Other fish implicated in

940
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,439
Speaker 1: similar hallucinogenic poisonings would include things like the cea chub,

941
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 1: the common mullet, the convicts urgin fish, and the coral grouper.

942
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,359
Speaker 1: The convict surgeon fish does sound a little suspect. Yeah,

943
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 1: it is pretty good. They've got a whole list. There

944
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,279
Speaker 1: are other ones too, mentioned in the paper. Those were

945
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: I thought the best names. Uh So here are the

946
00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 1: common symptoms you get with theo Alino toxic is um.

947
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: Within the first few minutes to two hours after eating

948
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:23,200
Speaker 1: the fish, patients usually report symptoms similar to drunkenness, like

949
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 1: they've got a loss of balance and coordination and quote

950
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: generalized malaise, discomfort, uh sometimes a sore throat, sometimes heartburn

951
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: can occur at this phase, and then comes the second phase.

952
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:39,279
Speaker 1: This is usually a couple of hours after eating the fish,

953
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 1: you get the central nervous system effects, and these would

954
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 1: include delirium, visual and auditory hallucinations, usually reported as frightening

955
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,479
Speaker 1: and weirdly enough, the author's note this, they very often

956
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:56,800
Speaker 1: seem to involve animals. That's weird that there would be

957
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:00,320
Speaker 1: like specific content common to the hallucination. It's almost like

958
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 1: it's like a a ghost that's been summoned to punish

959
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 1: the carnivore. Yeah. Uh, terrifying nightmares, depression, the feeling that

960
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: you're about to die, quote with reactive tachycardia and hyperventilation,

961
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 1: so feelings that that death is coming make people have

962
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 1: elevated heart rhythms and hyperventilation. And then quote transient behavioral disturbances. Uh,

963
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 1: this sounds just kind of like odd, dangerous and erratic behavior.

964
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: And this is one of the things you can treat.

965
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 1: You can treat this with drugs like benzodiazepine or neuraleptics

966
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: in order to prevent the patient from hurting themselves or others.

967
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 1: But I don't know, this conjures into mind these bizarre

968
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: scenario where it's like somebody's got the fish madness and

969
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: it's like just leave him be son, he's got the

970
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 1: fish madness. It's got to run its course, and we

971
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:53,439
Speaker 1: just tie him down and make sure he doesn't doesn't

972
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:57,640
Speaker 1: hurt himself. But anyway, sometimes not always, there is gastro

973
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 1: intestinal distress, nausea, abdom o pain, diarrhea, and at the

974
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 1: time of this paper there was no known antidote. I

975
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 1: looked for for recent research looking for an antidote, and

976
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: I was unable to find one. So it looks like

977
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 1: something that cannot be cured. You can just treat the

978
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,960
Speaker 1: symptoms and wait for it to go away on its own. Now,

979
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:19,239
Speaker 1: I mentioned that despite being widespread, the cases of poisoning

980
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: of this kind are rare. Hallucinogenic fish poisoning occurs and

981
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:25,879
Speaker 1: only a fraction of the cases of consuming these fish,

982
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: and toxicity seems to vary depending on a bunch of factors,

983
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:31,840
Speaker 1: like when the fish was caught, though there are some

984
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:36,320
Speaker 1: conflicting claims about like which season it is most dangerous,

985
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 1: and especially how it's prepared. According to a popular anecdote,

986
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: the risk of poisoning goes way up if you don't

987
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: immediately gut the fish after capture, or if you cook

988
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,560
Speaker 1: and serve the head with the rest of the body. Okay,

989
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 1: so we see similar practices as with the bullfrog, where

990
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 1: like and it was with with As with a lot

991
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: of animals that we eat, there are things you just

992
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: need to get rid immediately in order to make it now.

993
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:06,160
Speaker 1: Unlike the red kidney beans, cooking does not seem to help.

994
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: Bad fish trips have been reported not just when the

995
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:12,320
Speaker 1: fish is eaten raw, but when it's been boiled, steamed, fried.

996
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: This is one where the denaturing process of breading and

997
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 1: frying will not necessarily save you. Now, the good news

998
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:21,920
Speaker 1: is it generally does not appear to be fatal, but

999
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 1: obviously could be dangerous if a dosed person can't get

1000
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 1: medical attention, or you're trying to drive your car through

1001
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 1: a herd of giant Arthur pods. On the other hand,

1002
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 1: you have to wonder if you can trip on fish heads,

1003
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 1: is anybody doing it on purpose? The answer so I'm

1004
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 1: not sure about this. The authors of this two thousand

1005
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:46,720
Speaker 1: six paper report that the answer is yes, that people

1006
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:50,520
Speaker 1: have been reported to do it recreationally. Um. They say

1007
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:53,799
Speaker 1: that Arabic speaking populations apparently called this fish the fish

1008
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 1: that makes dreams. Uh. They claim that it has been

1009
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 1: used recreationally as far back as the Roman Empire, though

1010
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:04,320
Speaker 1: I could not find corroborating evidence of this. All references

1011
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:06,560
Speaker 1: to this fact seem to just point back to the

1012
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 1: claim in this paper. Well, and then also I would

1013
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 1: wonder if it what if it has been used that long,

1014
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:15,720
Speaker 1: I mean recreationally or you could say shamanistically, right, because

1015
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 1: that seems to be the pattern we take. Yeah, they're

1016
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: probably people that that turned to one another and say, hey,

1017
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: eat this fish. Who it happens, But it also seems

1018
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:27,320
Speaker 1: likely that someone would say, hey, uh, something magical happens

1019
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 1: when you eat this fish. Let's talk about it. Yeah. Absolutely,

1020
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,040
Speaker 1: So I don't doubt at all that it's possible this

1021
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 1: is the case, but I do I am kind of

1022
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:41,320
Speaker 1: suspicious just because I can't find independent verification of evidence

1023
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: of this. So I wonder I'm not sure about that

1024
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 1: fact um. But they also claimed that it's been used

1025
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:52,200
Speaker 1: recreationally more recently in Polynesia, and that another hallucinogenic fish,

1026
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:56,400
Speaker 1: the sir mullet or malloid o dick. This samue insis

1027
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,000
Speaker 1: is traditionally known among some of the people's of the

1028
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 1: Hawaiian Islands as quote the chief of ghosts now here's

1029
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:06,560
Speaker 1: the question what causes the poisoning. It's hard to know

1030
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 1: for sure. The author's note that one complicating factor is

1031
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 1: that some cases of Theolino toxy um seem to be

1032
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:17,880
Speaker 1: confused with a totally different kind of fish poisoning called sigatara,

1033
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: And this is a condition that happens when you eat

1034
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 1: some tropical reef fish that have been contaminated with the

1035
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 1: species of microalgae, a dinoflagellate called gambier Discus toxicus. And

1036
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 1: people with cigara experienced nausea, vomiting, and neurologic disturbances, so

1037
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:37,960
Speaker 1: sounds kind of similar, but not disturbances to the central

1038
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 1: nervous system as with the hallucinogenic fish, and not the

1039
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: brain so much as the peripheral nervous system, for example,

1040
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:49,240
Speaker 1: tingling of the fingers and toes, or illogical touch sensations

1041
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 1: like people say that the feelings of hot and cold

1042
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 1: are reversed for them um. So cigatara could be viewed

1043
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 1: as more serious than nick theo Alino tox is um,

1044
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: since some patients actually die from sigtara, and if they survive,

1045
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 1: symptoms can last for months or even years. But one

1046
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:11,920
Speaker 1: similarity between hallucinogenic fish poisoning and sigtara is that scientists

1047
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 1: have speculated that the toxins that cause the hallucinations may

1048
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:20,160
Speaker 1: also come from algae consumed by the fish, which contaminates

1049
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 1: the fish's meat with these psychoactive compounds. Just to mention,

1050
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 1: one study by Khaled belasued at All from two thousand

1051
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 1: and twelve published in in Vitro Cellular and Developmental Biology.

1052
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 1: They did some research on prepared extracts from Sarpa salpa,

1053
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 1: the sea bream, and they took extracts from the liver,

1054
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:42,360
Speaker 1: the brain, and the muscle. And what they found was

1055
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 1: that the liver extract in particular was cytotoxic, meaning toxic

1056
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 1: two cells to human cells. And the source of this

1057
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 1: was they believed that in their research they showed that

1058
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 1: the toxic effects were traceable too elements in the fish's diet,

1059
00:58:56,160 --> 00:59:02,000
Speaker 1: specifically quote toxic dinoflagellates which live in epiphyte on Potadenia

1060
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 1: oceanica leaves. Now, epiphyte means a plant that grows on

1061
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 1: another plant, right, So the Postadenia oceanica is a type

1062
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: of sea grass that lives in the Mediterranean so the

1063
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 1: fish graze on the sea grass, and the sea grass

1064
00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 1: is a host for this little organism which produces the toxins.

1065
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 1: The toxins accumulate in the liver of the fish, and

1066
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 1: the liver can poison a human who eats it. All right,

1067
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 1: I have one final selection here. It is It is

1068
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 1: another meat. It's a rather unique meat. And I will

1069
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 1: warn everyone that that that people will die on this one,

1070
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 1: but probably not that many people. So the dish in

1071
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 1: question is san naxi, which is a Korean delicacy, uh.

1072
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,840
Speaker 1: And the chef prepares it by slicing the tentacles off

1073
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 1: of a small live octopus lives live octopus, yes, And

1074
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 1: then these tentacles are are seasoned. They're tossed in sesame

1075
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:55,480
Speaker 1: oil and served with various sauces, you know, generally like

1076
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 1: a chili sauce or something. And then the dish is

1077
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:01,200
Speaker 1: brought to the table while it's everything is still moving

1078
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 1: and writhing around. It's a love crafty and feast. It's

1079
01:00:05,480 --> 01:00:09,000
Speaker 1: a it's chewy, but it's also crawley as the tentacles

1080
01:00:09,040 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 1: continue to move around on the plate with their little

1081
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 1: suction cups. So it has to say the least, it

1082
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:18,919
Speaker 1: has a unique texture, invite and it invites extreme opinions. Wait,

1083
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 1: this makes me think, is this a thing to be

1084
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:25,200
Speaker 1: to be chewed like or a thing to just be

1085
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: sort of shot like an oyster? Maybe do not shoot

1086
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 1: like an oyster? Is the is the take on that

1087
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:32,919
Speaker 1: I that I got from from reading about it? Uh? Yeah,

1088
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:35,439
Speaker 1: you're gonna want to chew this up. Now I mentioned

1089
01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 1: the extreme opinions. This is one of those dishes where

1090
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:38,720
Speaker 1: if you're hearing this, you might be saying, yeah, I'll

1091
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:40,640
Speaker 1: give that a shot. That sounds like it's like sushi

1092
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:43,600
Speaker 1: that moves. Other people might say, well that that that

1093
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 1: sounds absolutely disgusting, and it does seem to They do

1094
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 1: seem to target restaurants, deuced team to target tourists for

1095
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 1: this very reason, like people who want something exciting and

1096
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 1: I'm in exotic, right, it's something I imagine a lot

1097
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 1: of people take pictures of them elves eating right. And

1098
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 1: one of the reasons is because his reputation it said

1099
01:01:03,920 --> 01:01:06,320
Speaker 1: that if you that it is a dish that can

1100
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 1: potentially choke you. Uh. And and there is some reason

1101
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 1: reasoning behind this. Uh. The most important thing is that

1102
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:15,440
Speaker 1: if you do have it have this dish, you need

1103
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 1: to chew it up, because the idea here is that

1104
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:19,800
Speaker 1: if you don't chew it up enough, the suction cups

1105
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:22,320
Speaker 1: on the tentacles will remain intact enough to stick to

1106
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 1: the roof of your mouth or the inside of your throat,

1107
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:28,680
Speaker 1: potentially choking you. So I'm reminded of, you know, from

1108
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 1: Hell's heart. I stab at the You know you've captured me,

1109
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 1: you've killed me, You've served me. But maybe I get

1110
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 1: this one last chance to choke you. I mentioned the

1111
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 1: sesame oil. I've also read that the sesame oil helps

1112
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 1: prevent the suckers from attaching as you eat it. But again,

1113
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 1: you're gonna want to chew this up. Writer Matt Gross

1114
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 1: discussed the dish in his two thousand eight New York

1115
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 1: Times article A Quest into the Gustatory Heart of Soul,

1116
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:56,520
Speaker 1: and he shared the following. The most surprising thing about

1117
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 1: sun Nacci it tasted good, clean, and meaty. Once I'd

1118
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 1: gotten over the discombobulation that comes from eating something that

1119
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 1: most definitely does not want to be eaten, I was

1120
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:11,000
Speaker 1: chop sticking tentacles into my mouth as if they were octopopcorn.

1121
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 1: Octopopcorn and uh Interestingly enough, I found a news article

1122
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:18,280
Speaker 1: from two thousand twelve in which a man was accused

1123
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 1: of murdering his girlfriend, and he claimed that he didn't

1124
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:23,960
Speaker 1: kill her, but she simply choked to death on an

1125
01:02:24,080 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: order of sun nachi in their hotel room, So take

1126
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 1: that for what it's worth. I couldn't find any coverage

1127
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 1: that followed up on that to see who was actually

1128
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:33,400
Speaker 1: telling the truth there. But again, this is a dish

1129
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 1: that elects strong opinions. Now, I myself, I've chosen to

1130
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 1: abstain from eating octopus, so the idea isn't super appealing

1131
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 1: to me, But I do love sushi and Korean food,

1132
01:02:42,560 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 1: so I can imagine how one might enjoy it. Now. Octopier,

1133
01:02:45,720 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 1: of course amazing organisms, and they boast a number of

1134
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:52,160
Speaker 1: different defenses against predators. They have camouflage, ink, threatening displays,

1135
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 1: high speed jet propulsion, escape, and venom. But it would

1136
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 1: seem that in some cases, you know, their their final

1137
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:01,160
Speaker 1: defense is their choke a bill. Now, I wonder would

1138
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 1: that be an actual adaptation. I guess it possibly could be,

1139
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 1: like in the same way that a uh an animal

1140
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:12,040
Speaker 1: could have toxins that would be poisonous. Basically, to discourage

1141
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 1: other animals from eating it. You could have some kind

1142
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 1: of mechanical action of your flesh that punishes an animal

1143
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 1: that eats you and discourages predation. Well, yeah, I mean

1144
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 1: there there are adaptations that discourage, you know, being eaten. Obviously,

1145
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 1: I guess it. It's hard to really nail down the

1146
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:32,800
Speaker 1: octopus on this right, because it has so many other

1147
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:37,560
Speaker 1: robust defensive mechanisms. Uh, But we do have examples that

1148
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 1: have come to light where let's say, a dolphin has

1149
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 1: attempted to eat an octopus and it has choked on it.

1150
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 1: But of course that can be said of a lot

1151
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 1: of different foods. I mean a lot of human foods

1152
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 1: are you know, you if it goes down wrong, you

1153
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 1: can choke, and if you choke, you can die. However,

1154
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:56,800
Speaker 1: there is one example of an animal that does seem

1155
01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 1: to have a choking the predator adaptation, and that is

1156
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 1: of course the hagfish, which, if you've ever seen footage

1157
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 1: of these, these things are amazing, this kind of faceless,

1158
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:13,240
Speaker 1: joyless um slug fish creature, and when threatened, they squeeze

1159
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:17,240
Speaker 1: out this gill choking slime, just this thick viscus, uh

1160
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:21,160
Speaker 1: lube like material and uh and and this appears to

1161
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 1: be one of its adaptations is that if something tries

1162
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 1: to eat it, they're just gonna get a mouthful and

1163
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,560
Speaker 1: perhaps gills full of slime that could choke them out.

1164
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:31,920
Speaker 1: Defend yourself by being disgusting. Yeah, the hag fish has it,

1165
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 1: has it down to a fine science. Now, speaking of choking.

1166
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 1: In previous episodes, we've discussed, you know a lot of

1167
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 1: times how Western culture is given to panic about poisoning

1168
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:44,960
Speaker 1: and danger from unfamiliar foods from other cuisines, but that

1169
01:04:45,040 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 1: when you look up, the number is actually the most harmful.

1170
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 1: Food poisoning outbreaks in the United States tend to come

1171
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 1: from things that are considered to be very ordinary American products,

1172
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 1: not exotic foods. Uh. One of the big ones is

1173
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 1: let us another leafy greens and a bag, but also meats, cheeses,

1174
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 1: prepared packaged foods like peanut butter. And it turns out

1175
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 1: the same principle holds true not just for food poisoning

1176
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:15,080
Speaker 1: by pathogens and contaminants, but for choking risk. A study

1177
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 1: in reviewed the foods that most children choked on between

1178
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:21,760
Speaker 1: two thousand one and two thousand nine, and the primary

1179
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:25,600
Speaker 1: culprit was, of course, not octopus. Uh, not any kind

1180
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 1: of ethnic cuisine from anywhere in the world. It was

1181
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,800
Speaker 1: hard candy. Yeah, that would make sense because you know,

1182
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:35,720
Speaker 1: there are other highly chokable foods, such as say, grapes,

1183
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 1: where with the young kids, you're always being reminded, will

1184
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 1: make sure you slice those grapes in half, you know, Uh,

1185
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:44,720
Speaker 1: you can do that with grapes. Hard candy is that's

1186
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:47,560
Speaker 1: a taller order. Yeah. So in this period from two

1187
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:50,400
Speaker 1: thousand one to two thousand nine, more than sixteen thousand

1188
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:53,400
Speaker 1: children showed up in e ers choking on hard candy.

1189
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 1: That means that's about fifteen percent of all child emergency

1190
01:05:57,520 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 1: room visits due to choking were caused by hard candy. So,

1191
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:03,680
Speaker 1: other than the fact that they're disgusting, this is another

1192
01:06:03,760 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 1: good reason nobody should ever buy Jolly Rancher. Yeah, pick

1193
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:12,960
Speaker 1: up the nice, stuable black twizzlers instead, Far better for you, Right,

1194
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 1: I don't even know those might not even be made

1195
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:17,800
Speaker 1: with the real liquorice extract. Yeah, I'm not sure. Well,

1196
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 1: but you had that that one study where they specifically

1197
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 1: said that was several years back. That's true, so the

1198
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:25,720
Speaker 1: recipe may have changed. Yeah, I don't know. More research

1199
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:29,160
Speaker 1: is required, don't don't, don't take our word for it

1200
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 1: on the the actual liquorice content. If you're Candy Well, Robert,

1201
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:36,200
Speaker 1: I hope you feel satisfied by this feast today. Yeah, yeah,

1202
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 1: I feel like this was a dangerous feast we made.

1203
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:41,680
Speaker 1: We made it through. We learned a little bit about

1204
01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 1: other cultures and other culinary traditions, and yeah, and hopefully

1205
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 1: we learned a little bit of about ourselves. You know,

1206
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:52,120
Speaker 1: by by focusing in on, you know, seemingly exotic food

1207
01:06:52,320 --> 01:06:54,720
Speaker 1: that can choke, you were forced to realize, Oh yeah,

1208
01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:57,480
Speaker 1: most of our food can choke us. It doesn't have

1209
01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:00,920
Speaker 1: to be writhing and around and of suction cups on

1210
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:04,480
Speaker 1: it to pose a potential danger. Yeah all right, Well, hey,

1211
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:06,680
Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from anyone out there who has

1212
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:10,240
Speaker 1: tried these various dishes. Have you had the African bullfrog?

1213
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 1: Have have you had uh, writhing tentacles in a in

1214
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 1: a soul restaurant? Have you had hallucinogenic fish poisoning? I

1215
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 1: guess we'll probably hear from a lot of people if

1216
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 1: we ask if you've had red kidney beans. But but

1217
01:07:24,920 --> 01:07:27,000
Speaker 1: but please out there, cook those beans. Yes, have you

1218
01:07:27,120 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 1: had these things? And then have you suffered any of

1219
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:32,480
Speaker 1: the symptoms that we've discussed? And hey, we're it's open

1220
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:34,840
Speaker 1: season for comments on black liquor issue. What do you

1221
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:37,040
Speaker 1: love it? Do you hate it? Do you have weird

1222
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 1: feelings about it? Let us know. Yeah, it's it's a

1223
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 1: polarizing snack in the new respects. Hey, get in touch

1224
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 1: with us all the normal ways. Heading over to stuff

1225
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 1: Doable your mind dot com. That's where we'll find all

1226
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:50,600
Speaker 1: the podcast episodes and videos and blog post links out

1227
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:53,880
Speaker 1: to our various social media accounts as well, So just Twitter, Tumbler, Facebook,

1228
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:56,720
Speaker 1: and Instagram, and on Facebook, be sure to check out

1229
01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:58,880
Speaker 1: our discussion module. That's a group where you can you

1230
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:02,120
Speaker 1: can join up and chat with other listeners. And if

1231
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 1: you want to get in touch with this directly, as always,

1232
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 1: you can email us at blow the Mind at how

1233
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:20,200
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com for moralness and thousands of other topics.

1234
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:29,240
Speaker 1: Does it how stuff works dot com. Love