WEBVTT - How Much is an Elephant Worth? 0:00:15.304 --> 0:00:15.824 Pushkin. 0:00:20.264 --> 0:00:23.144 I'm Paul Cavina, and I wrote I bought an elephant 0:00:23.224 --> 0:00:26.104 to find out how to save them for Outside magazine, 0:00:26.344 --> 0:00:27.584 and it's the story of the week. 0:00:29.104 --> 0:00:32.384 Look, I don't really care about animals, but I do 0:00:32.624 --> 0:00:35.904 love a prank, and there aren't a lot of organizations 0:00:35.944 --> 0:00:40.064 professionally dedicated to pranking other than People for the Ethical 0:00:40.104 --> 0:00:43.944 Treatment of Animals. So back in the summer of two thousand, 0:00:44.144 --> 0:00:47.064 I called PETA and asked if there were any cool 0:00:47.064 --> 0:00:49.944 pranks coming up I could join them on. They invited 0:00:49.984 --> 0:00:54.664 me to enactme supermarket in Wilmington, Delaware. Wilmington is in 0:00:54.744 --> 0:00:58.544 the heart of chicken raising country. When I got there, 0:00:58.784 --> 0:01:02.064 they gave me this giant chicken suit and told me 0:01:02.144 --> 0:01:05.184 to go inside the supermarket and to fix these little 0:01:05.224 --> 0:01:08.624 stickers to all the raw chicken products. And the sticker 0:01:08.704 --> 0:01:14.344 said warning, this package contains the decomposing corpse of a 0:01:14.384 --> 0:01:18.864 small tortured bird. I went in and tried to put 0:01:18.904 --> 0:01:22.024 as many stickers on packages as I could, which was 0:01:22.224 --> 0:01:25.984 not easy with the fake chicken hands and the lack 0:01:26.024 --> 0:01:29.344 of visibility from the big chicken eyes that were way 0:01:29.384 --> 0:01:32.384 too high for me. And I yelled at my lines 0:01:32.464 --> 0:01:35.664 like give a clock as best as I could, but 0:01:35.864 --> 0:01:39.904 someone started making threatening bocking noises at me, and that's 0:01:39.984 --> 0:01:44.184 when the police came. They started escorting me towards the exit. 0:01:45.464 --> 0:01:49.344 When I got outside, this officer made me stand against 0:01:49.344 --> 0:01:52.264 the wall and started taking pictures of me, some of 0:01:52.304 --> 0:01:56.384 them with my chicken head on. I was nervous that 0:01:56.424 --> 0:01:59.784 these were mugshots, but they were just for the personal 0:01:59.904 --> 0:02:03.584 use of the police officers. So I've done my part 0:02:03.624 --> 0:02:07.104 for the animal movement, but not nearly as much as 0:02:07.144 --> 0:02:16.744 today's guest Paul Kvinta. Writing is hard. 0:02:16.944 --> 0:02:20.264 Who's got that kind of time when you're already busy 0:02:20.384 --> 0:02:22.864 trying to be you all stand so it turns on 0:02:22.984 --> 0:02:26.904 a mic. Maybe the twiddles nap because a journalist trand 0:02:26.944 --> 0:02:32.144 has got in that juble job outories single story. Just listen, 0:02:32.384 --> 0:02:39.024 smart people speak, conversation, film and information. It's a story. 0:02:39.344 --> 0:02:55.264 UK. I once ate a five hundred dollars dinner alone 0:02:55.584 --> 0:02:58.744 at a restaurant called Elnea in Chicago and put it 0:02:58.744 --> 0:03:02.384 down on my expense report for Time Magazine as dinner 0:03:02.504 --> 0:03:07.144 with Bruce Willis. For his article for Outside Magazine, Paul 0:03:07.224 --> 0:03:11.864 Covinta bought an elephant. I cannot imagine what he wrote 0:03:11.904 --> 0:03:15.624 down on his expense report. Paul, thanks for coming on. 0:03:15.624 --> 0:03:18.704 It's the second time we've had you on the show. Congratulations. 0:03:18.904 --> 0:03:20.904 Well thanks, I'm glad to be here. 0:03:21.304 --> 0:03:25.024 This story is even crazier than the last one. When 0:03:25.064 --> 0:03:27.704 I first read the title I bought an elephant, I 0:03:27.744 --> 0:03:29.624 thought it was like an exaggeration just to get me 0:03:29.664 --> 0:03:32.144 to read the piece, but it is not. In fact, 0:03:32.184 --> 0:03:36.544 it's an understatement because you bought two elephants. Why didn't 0:03:36.584 --> 0:03:38.984 you brag about buying two elephants in the headline? 0:03:39.144 --> 0:03:39.704 I should have. 0:03:40.184 --> 0:03:43.184 So the story starts in Laos and there's a seven 0:03:43.304 --> 0:03:46.904 forty seven that's landed at the airport at midnight bound 0:03:46.944 --> 0:03:51.904 for Dubai and it's picking up some very unusual cargo. 0:03:52.064 --> 0:03:57.504 There were sixteen elephants, and Dubai was putting together a 0:03:57.624 --> 0:04:02.344 new Safari park and they needed elephants. And there are 0:04:02.344 --> 0:04:06.984 a lot of wealthy countries now including the Ua China, 0:04:07.784 --> 0:04:10.264 who are creating new zoos and they need animals for 0:04:10.304 --> 0:04:10.864 those zoos. 0:04:11.224 --> 0:04:13.944 How do you even get elephants on an airplane like 0:04:13.944 --> 0:04:15.144 they would just tear the place up. 0:04:15.224 --> 0:04:21.704 No, So they had some specially made crates and they 0:04:21.704 --> 0:04:23.624 were going to put the elephants in the crates and 0:04:23.624 --> 0:04:26.624 then put the crates on the plane. These elephants had 0:04:26.664 --> 0:04:31.104 been staged outside of the capital of Laos Vntien, and 0:04:31.504 --> 0:04:33.824 this was all going to take place under cover of darkness. 0:04:34.024 --> 0:04:37.144 Those elephants were going to be moved by big trucks 0:04:37.184 --> 0:04:40.104 to the airstrip and put on this plane. That was 0:04:40.144 --> 0:04:43.904 the plan. But you know, as these things go, there 0:04:43.984 --> 0:04:46.584 was there's a lot of you know, dark money floating around. 0:04:46.584 --> 0:04:50.504 This is all illegal, illegal under Laosian law or international law. 0:04:50.624 --> 0:04:54.184 Under Laos law, that's correct. And apparently the Zoo and 0:04:54.264 --> 0:04:58.424 Dubai had sent middlemen to negotiate with these mahoots in 0:04:59.704 --> 0:05:02.304 these elephant owners in Laos and they had, you know, 0:05:02.384 --> 0:05:05.944 reached all sorts of under the table deals. Well, somebody 0:05:05.984 --> 0:05:09.664 didn't get their payments. Somewhere along the line, somebody complained 0:05:09.704 --> 0:05:12.824 about us right, complained about this to officials. We don't 0:05:12.864 --> 0:05:15.944 know exactly what happened, but literally, as this was about 0:05:15.984 --> 0:05:19.864 to go down, suddenly all these officials appear. The elephants 0:05:19.904 --> 0:05:22.944 get confiscated, they don't make it to the airport, and 0:05:23.064 --> 0:05:27.504 everything falls apart, and then the president of Laos makes 0:05:27.544 --> 0:05:30.304 the statement saying we will never part with our elephants, 0:05:30.344 --> 0:05:31.744 and how could this have happened? 0:05:32.024 --> 0:05:35.624 And Laos is like a global hub for wildlife tracking 0:05:35.744 --> 0:05:38.864 like ivory and rhino horn. It is what is going 0:05:38.904 --> 0:05:39.744 on with that country. 0:05:40.104 --> 0:05:44.344 The institutions of Laos aren't particularly strong. There's a lot 0:05:44.344 --> 0:05:47.424 of corruption in the government. And if you have money, 0:05:48.064 --> 0:05:50.104 you can do do a lot of things in Laos. 0:05:50.144 --> 0:05:52.784 It's nearby countries that now have a lot of money. 0:05:53.344 --> 0:05:56.184 And you said that when these countries get money, they 0:05:56.224 --> 0:05:59.744 tend to like build these lavish zoos. Is that something 0:05:59.784 --> 0:06:02.224 you do when you get rich as a society, like 0:06:02.264 --> 0:06:04.504 build the world's tallest building and build zoos? 0:06:05.064 --> 0:06:10.064 I guess so, I don't know, or send people to 0:06:10.064 --> 0:06:14.064 outer space, right right? China is building a lot of zoos, 0:06:14.104 --> 0:06:17.424 a lot of aquariums. People have disposable income, they want 0:06:17.424 --> 0:06:21.064 to you know, different kinds of entertainment and zoos and 0:06:21.104 --> 0:06:23.624 aquariums would fall into that category. 0:06:24.304 --> 0:06:27.544 Okay. And the reason there are all these elephants in 0:06:27.584 --> 0:06:32.304 Laos that are kind of available is this unintended consequence 0:06:32.464 --> 0:06:35.064 of a law to protect the environment there, right. 0:06:35.504 --> 0:06:35.984 That's right. 0:06:36.104 --> 0:06:36.424 Yeah. 0:06:36.584 --> 0:06:40.464 Laos traces its history to the fourteenth century kingdom of 0:06:41.104 --> 0:06:44.904 lang Zeng, which means land of a million elephants. So 0:06:44.944 --> 0:06:48.544 there's always been a ton of elephants in Laos. They 0:06:48.784 --> 0:06:52.424 are just a celebrated species there historically, but now the 0:06:52.464 --> 0:06:56.144 country has only eight hundred elephants. Half of those are wild, 0:06:56.544 --> 0:07:01.944 half are domesticated. In twenty sixteen, Lao ban the export 0:07:02.064 --> 0:07:06.304 of unprocessed timber and elephants and their mohots had really 0:07:06.344 --> 0:07:08.624 been the backbone of that industry. So when that was 0:07:08.704 --> 0:07:11.464 banned and suddenly you had all of these unemployed elephants 0:07:11.504 --> 0:07:14.304 and unemployed mohots, So that's. 0:07:14.144 --> 0:07:16.544 Been one of the hoots. Are the people that have 0:07:16.784 --> 0:07:20.224 for I guess centuries trained elephants to do things including 0:07:20.384 --> 0:07:23.264 logging which is now correct, which is now illegal, to 0:07:23.264 --> 0:07:24.504 protect the forests or. 0:07:24.544 --> 0:07:27.224 To protect the forest And yes, as you say, the 0:07:27.264 --> 0:07:31.384 irony is that those owners are much more you know, 0:07:31.424 --> 0:07:34.704 there's an incentive for them to now sell their elephants, 0:07:34.744 --> 0:07:37.184 and so they're doing it to these people in China 0:07:37.224 --> 0:07:39.384 who are trying to create these zoos. 0:07:39.464 --> 0:07:42.744 And I imagine the mohots, the people that train these 0:07:42.784 --> 0:07:45.464 elephants are not happy about having their way of life 0:07:46.104 --> 0:07:48.464 destroyed and having to sell these elephants because they're like 0:07:48.544 --> 0:07:51.184 spiritual creatures in Laos. 0:07:51.544 --> 0:07:51.984 That's right. 0:07:52.104 --> 0:07:56.544 As part of this Buddhist belief, people have thirty two souls, 0:07:56.824 --> 0:07:59.064 and the only other creatures that also have thirty two 0:07:59.104 --> 0:08:00.024 souls or elephants. 0:08:00.264 --> 0:08:04.864 I don't even think I have one soul thirty two. 0:08:06.104 --> 0:08:08.624 That's exhausting just to think about how many souls do 0:08:08.624 --> 0:08:09.944 you think you have? I have? 0:08:10.224 --> 0:08:14.264 You know, I've got a lot, Joel, five hundred souls. 0:08:15.384 --> 0:08:18.704 You've got a hundred lives to live through all these things. 0:08:20.304 --> 0:08:23.624 I have not done reporting like this. Okay, So they 0:08:23.664 --> 0:08:26.864 have these sixteen elephants that are not going to Dubai. 0:08:27.944 --> 0:08:29.184 They have a lot of free time in their hands 0:08:29.224 --> 0:08:31.104 now as elephants. What are they going to do with them? 0:08:31.584 --> 0:08:34.344 These elephants end up at this wonderful place in Laos 0:08:34.384 --> 0:08:37.224 called the Elephant Conservation Center, and. 0:08:37.144 --> 0:08:40.304 This is like a forest somewhere. Can you pay to 0:08:40.344 --> 0:08:41.664 go there? You can? 0:08:41.864 --> 0:08:43.744 You can, Tourists can go, and in fact, they were 0:08:43.744 --> 0:08:45.264 there when I spent time there. 0:08:45.864 --> 0:08:47.904 Well, it's starting to sound a lot like a zoo. 0:08:50.224 --> 0:08:53.384 That's funny. It's not caged in at all like a zoo. 0:08:53.704 --> 0:08:57.384 They basically live in the forest, but they always keep 0:08:57.424 --> 0:09:00.544 tabs on them. And if you're a paying tourist, you 0:09:00.584 --> 0:09:02.704 can go and you stay in this sort of not 0:09:02.784 --> 0:09:06.304 fancy lodge and and you can you know, get guided 0:09:06.384 --> 0:09:10.264 out into the forest and where you can see these elephants, 0:09:10.984 --> 0:09:13.344 you know, drinking at the riverside or the mood is 0:09:13.384 --> 0:09:17.384 bathing them in the river. So it's not a zoo, 0:09:17.544 --> 0:09:20.224 it's not completely wild either, it's somewhere in between. 0:09:20.704 --> 0:09:24.024 So it's run by this young kind of American woman 0:09:24.064 --> 0:09:26.584 who's twenty five, and she has this sort of crazy 0:09:26.704 --> 0:09:27.584 idea right. 0:09:27.984 --> 0:09:32.304 Right, So her name is Chrissantha Pinto. She is a 0:09:32.344 --> 0:09:37.064 scientist from the United States. And so what she wants 0:09:37.104 --> 0:09:41.464 to do, or wanted to do, is, can we take 0:09:41.584 --> 0:09:44.744 these elephants we have here at the Elephant Conservation Center. 0:09:44.784 --> 0:09:48.144 These are all, you know, formerly these are all domestic elephants. 0:09:48.264 --> 0:09:50.904 They don't know each other for the most part. Can 0:09:50.944 --> 0:09:55.024 we put five of them together and create a herd? 0:09:55.784 --> 0:09:58.704 Now in the wild jowl an elephant herd is made 0:09:58.744 --> 0:10:04.184 up of adult females and they're young, so no one's 0:10:04.184 --> 0:10:07.304 ever really tried to just sort of slap together a 0:10:07.344 --> 0:10:10.624 herd of elephants that don't otherwise know each other. People 0:10:10.704 --> 0:10:14.984 have attempted in other Asian countries to introduce domestic elephants 0:10:14.984 --> 0:10:18.144 into the wild, and none of those efforts have really succeeded. 0:10:18.464 --> 0:10:20.584 The Queen of Thailand did it, right, That's. 0:10:20.464 --> 0:10:22.704 Right, she did. They put together, you know, a handful 0:10:22.704 --> 0:10:24.944 of elephants, put them out in the wild, and these 0:10:24.984 --> 0:10:28.224 elephants suddenly just you know, roamed everywhere and did not 0:10:28.464 --> 0:10:30.384 stay together as or herd, and you're just. 0:10:30.344 --> 0:10:33.064 Like attacked people's houses and stuff. 0:10:32.864 --> 0:10:35.624 Right exactly. Yeah, So that's one of the concerns is 0:10:35.624 --> 0:10:38.784 that there'll be this human elephant conflict. They'll trample crops, 0:10:38.824 --> 0:10:43.544 they'll run over houses, they'll stomp on people. Chrysantha Pento 0:10:43.584 --> 0:10:46.744 at the Elephant Conservation Center in Lause. When she decided 0:10:46.784 --> 0:10:48.704 how am I going to put together an elephant heard 0:10:48.904 --> 0:10:52.184 she started with three of the elephants that had been 0:10:52.224 --> 0:10:55.904 bound for Dubai. One was an older female and one 0:10:55.944 --> 0:10:58.344 was a young a young elephant, a young male elephant, 0:10:58.344 --> 0:11:01.144 a five year old and another adult who sort of 0:11:01.184 --> 0:11:04.464 served as the doting aunt. So Chrissantha started with those 0:11:05.224 --> 0:11:08.704 and then she added another female, and then she also 0:11:08.704 --> 0:11:13.424 added a fifth adult female elephant and these were the 0:11:13.544 --> 0:11:16.024 This was the herd that she watched for months there 0:11:16.024 --> 0:11:18.704 at the Elephant Conservation Center. And you know, Joel, all 0:11:18.704 --> 0:11:22.264 this drama unfolds inside this elephant herd. You know, the 0:11:22.304 --> 0:11:25.144 three elephants don't like one of the other females. They 0:11:25.424 --> 0:11:29.304 you know, they they kick at her and whatnot. And 0:11:29.344 --> 0:11:32.224 then when the little guy, when the little elephant, the 0:11:32.224 --> 0:11:37.384 little male elephant, gets upset, what all the females do 0:11:37.464 --> 0:11:42.544 their mothering instinct is to reach their trunks in uh 0:11:42.664 --> 0:11:45.744 to his growing area, because then they can somehow by 0:11:45.784 --> 0:11:48.864 doing that, discern what his stress level is. So Chris, 0:11:49.144 --> 0:11:51.984 every time, every time the little guy got upset and 0:11:52.024 --> 0:11:55.024 started crying, you know, these four mother figures would come 0:11:55.064 --> 0:11:58.744 in and you know, touches growing with their trunks. 0:11:59.184 --> 0:12:02.784 Wait, they like wrap their trunks around the young elephant's 0:12:02.824 --> 0:12:04.424 penis to see if he is upset. 0:12:04.664 --> 0:12:05.624 That's right, that's right. 0:12:05.704 --> 0:12:10.344 And when they did this, Chrisophatch, that was awesome. You know, 0:12:10.424 --> 0:12:12.904 this this meant that they cared, you know, and they 0:12:13.144 --> 0:12:15.784 you know that this was another one more clue that 0:12:15.824 --> 0:12:18.424 they were going to stick together in the wild hopefully. 0:12:18.064 --> 0:12:20.304 So this is not awesome. This is going to send 0:12:20.304 --> 0:12:23.064 these elephants into elephant therapy for the rest of their life. 0:12:24.424 --> 0:12:25.744 But does this work with humans? 0:12:25.784 --> 0:12:25.864 Like? 0:12:25.904 --> 0:12:27.744 Do we not shy that? 0:12:28.744 --> 0:12:31.704 I have no idea. My mother certainly didn't do this 0:12:31.744 --> 0:12:32.984 with me, Joel. If that's what you're. 0:12:32.824 --> 0:12:37.944 Asking, your trip to this elephant conservation center sounds kind 0:12:37.944 --> 0:12:41.224 of amazing. First of all, you're meeting all these mahoots 0:12:41.704 --> 0:12:43.344 and what are they like? 0:12:44.064 --> 0:12:48.464 So uh, these five elephants that we set free into 0:12:48.544 --> 0:12:51.664 non Fui National Park, each of them came with a 0:12:51.704 --> 0:12:54.704 mahout that had known these elephants pretty much all their lives. 0:12:54.744 --> 0:12:58.184 Almost These men were amazed, and they were all guys. 0:12:58.504 --> 0:13:00.744 They were amazing. I'll give you an idea. 0:13:00.904 --> 0:13:01.224 Okay. 0:13:01.424 --> 0:13:05.144 There was another a British guy, a guy named Mike Foulshaw, 0:13:05.344 --> 0:13:08.424 who also worked at the Elephant Conservation Center. There were 0:13:08.464 --> 0:13:12.544 times when I was with this group of people, me, Mike, Chysantha, 0:13:12.624 --> 0:13:15.504 the Mohoots, the elephants, when Mike would say, well, the 0:13:15.544 --> 0:13:18.704 GPS says we should go this way, and the mohots. 0:13:18.944 --> 0:13:21.864 One of the moots said I've got a GPS. I've 0:13:21.904 --> 0:13:23.784 got two and he pointed to his head and he 0:13:23.824 --> 0:13:26.064 pointed to his heart, and he would say, yeah, we're not, 0:13:26.104 --> 0:13:28.584 we're not. We're not listening to your GPS, Mike Felshot, 0:13:28.624 --> 0:13:31.864 We're going that way, you know. And these guys just knew. 0:13:31.864 --> 0:13:33.544 And they'd be right, like he'd say it. We took 0:13:33.584 --> 0:13:35.704 an hour, and they'd get there in like ten minutes, right, 0:13:35.864 --> 0:13:36.344 that's right. 0:13:36.504 --> 0:13:38.544 I remember the first day we spent all day out 0:13:38.544 --> 0:13:41.424 in the wilderness. We'd come back to camp. These guys, 0:13:41.664 --> 0:13:44.904 you know, with their pocket knives, had created a table, chairs, 0:13:45.104 --> 0:13:48.464 a whole lean to to cover up all of our tents. 0:13:48.664 --> 0:13:50.344 They had gone into the river and caught all these 0:13:50.384 --> 0:13:52.064 frogs for us to eat for dinner. 0:13:52.144 --> 0:13:53.264 Dinner that night. 0:13:53.744 --> 0:13:56.064 I mean, these guys are just incredible. 0:13:56.344 --> 0:13:58.104 So they walked in with no food and they made 0:13:58.144 --> 0:14:00.904 you a whole like dinner. Yeah yeah, yeah, okay. And 0:14:00.944 --> 0:14:03.664 the mohots are like flying through this place, and you're 0:14:04.104 --> 0:14:05.584 struggling to keep up with them, I assume. 0:14:06.264 --> 0:14:09.544 Yeah, me and Chrysantha actually are having a hard time 0:14:09.624 --> 0:14:11.944 keeping up with these guys. They're they're you know, climbing 0:14:11.984 --> 0:14:15.064 up you know, these really steep hills. Were halfway up 0:14:15.064 --> 0:14:19.344 this cliff, and Chrissantha realizes she has a leech in 0:14:19.424 --> 0:14:25.384 her groin and she's she screams out, Ah, it looks 0:14:25.384 --> 0:14:28.064 like I'm on my period. So she was upset, and 0:14:28.104 --> 0:14:30.024 you know, I had leeches all over me, and it 0:14:30.064 --> 0:14:32.904 was it was tough going, that's for sure, all right. 0:14:32.944 --> 0:14:35.784 So it goes pretty well. It seems like with the 0:14:35.784 --> 0:14:37.424 elephants in the conservation center. 0:14:37.624 --> 0:14:41.784 Yeah, Chrissantha saw things that she thought was was quite hopeful. 0:14:42.144 --> 0:14:46.344 The elephants were mostly staying together after I left. I 0:14:46.464 --> 0:14:49.664 later learned during that three month span when I spoke 0:14:49.664 --> 0:14:55.264 with Chrysantha, that male elephant started developing a relationship with 0:14:55.544 --> 0:14:58.424 some of these female elephants, which again she considered a 0:14:58.504 --> 0:15:00.624 very good thing. So it went pretty well. 0:15:00.864 --> 0:15:02.584 It's like love Islands for elephants. 0:15:02.704 --> 0:15:05.504 That's exactly what it is. I should have titled my 0:15:05.624 --> 0:15:07.464 story love Island for Elephants. 0:15:07.504 --> 0:15:10.304 Oh no, no, you I should have told your story. I 0:15:10.384 --> 0:15:16.144 bought two elephants. When we come back, Paul's going to 0:15:16.144 --> 0:15:18.424 a zoo in China to try to buy his elephants. 0:15:19.104 --> 0:15:23.344 But first today's sponsor has an incredible offer on some 0:15:23.504 --> 0:15:38.184 ivory tusks. Okay, So then you go to China to 0:15:38.304 --> 0:15:42.344 this city kun Ming, and you've gone there to go 0:15:42.384 --> 0:15:43.504 look at a zoo, right. 0:15:43.584 --> 0:15:46.384 That's right. So after I spent time with on this 0:15:46.464 --> 0:15:49.784 experiment of reintroducing these domestic elephants into the wild, I 0:15:49.904 --> 0:15:54.344 connected up with an investigative filmmaker named Karl Aman. He's 0:15:54.344 --> 0:15:57.824 a Swiss guy and he has documented different sorts of 0:15:57.904 --> 0:16:01.184 animal trafficking all over the world. What's he like that 0:16:01.304 --> 0:16:04.704 has these sort of sleepy eyelids? And he the person 0:16:04.784 --> 0:16:06.824 who comes to mind to me when I think of 0:16:06.864 --> 0:16:10.584 Carl as Peter Falk playing Colombo, got it, this kind 0:16:10.584 --> 0:16:14.184 of frumpy guy who maybe you don't expect a lot 0:16:14.224 --> 0:16:16.984 out of, you don't realize he's a really good investigator. 0:16:17.424 --> 0:16:23.704 And Carl had identified two different business groups. One was Chinese, 0:16:23.864 --> 0:16:26.664 another one was Laotian, and these two groups had been 0:16:26.864 --> 0:16:31.864 steadily trafficking elephants out of Laos into China. And so 0:16:32.424 --> 0:16:36.344 at one point Carl contacted the Laotian company pretending to 0:16:36.424 --> 0:16:40.264 be a Western man who was going to start a 0:16:40.344 --> 0:16:44.264 new zoo in Guangzhou, China. And so he asked these 0:16:44.384 --> 0:16:47.624 this Laotian business, you know, how much can you get 0:16:47.624 --> 0:16:49.744 me elephants? And how much would I be paying for them, 0:16:50.024 --> 0:16:53.264 and so he started this relationship with this Laotian company 0:16:53.464 --> 0:16:56.064 and what he learned from them was that very recently 0:16:56.624 --> 0:16:59.744 they had just sent elephants, you know, illegally out of 0:16:59.824 --> 0:17:04.344 Laos into China, and Carl learned which zoo they had 0:17:04.384 --> 0:17:07.184 gone to, and if we could confirm that those elephants 0:17:07.224 --> 0:17:10.584 were at that zoo, we would have documented this illegal 0:17:10.664 --> 0:17:13.544 trade from Laos to China of these elephants. 0:17:13.824 --> 0:17:17.224 So I know that Carl is pretending that he's starting 0:17:17.224 --> 0:17:20.384 a zoo in China. Are you there as do you 0:17:20.384 --> 0:17:22.064 tell them you're a journalist, Do you tell them that 0:17:22.064 --> 0:17:24.024 you're working with Carl or what do you tell them 0:17:24.024 --> 0:17:24.464 you're there for? 0:17:24.704 --> 0:17:27.704 Carl and I are basically working under cover. We are 0:17:27.744 --> 0:17:32.784 pretending to be a pair of Western businessmen who are 0:17:32.824 --> 0:17:36.744 starting a zoo in Guangzhou, China, And so we are 0:17:36.824 --> 0:17:40.624 out looking to purchase elephants, and you know, we've been 0:17:40.664 --> 0:17:43.464 told that this particular zoo has some elephants, and we 0:17:43.544 --> 0:17:45.064 want to see if we can buy some of those 0:17:45.064 --> 0:17:48.064 elephants and how much they'll they'll they're going to charge us. 0:17:48.184 --> 0:17:51.224 And so I went with Carl to this zoo and 0:17:51.264 --> 0:17:54.344 that was a really trippy thing. Do you know much 0:17:54.384 --> 0:17:56.144 about Chinese zoo's Joel? 0:17:56.944 --> 0:17:58.784 If I had a dollar for every time someone asked 0:17:58.824 --> 0:18:02.424 me that question, you know, no, what's a Chinese zoo? 0:18:02.504 --> 0:18:06.224 Like a Chinese zoo, the relationship between the paying customers 0:18:06.224 --> 0:18:08.344 and the animals is quite different from what we have 0:18:08.424 --> 0:18:11.464 here in the United States. So, for example, there would 0:18:11.544 --> 0:18:17.264 be these enclosures of predators, big big enclosures of tigers 0:18:17.264 --> 0:18:21.984 and lions and bears and oh my, and you could 0:18:21.984 --> 0:18:23.744 buy a ticket, and Carl and I did this. We 0:18:24.104 --> 0:18:26.424 bought a ticket and a little mini bus can drive 0:18:26.504 --> 0:18:29.984 you through these enclosures and you can buy food skewers 0:18:30.024 --> 0:18:33.624 of raw chicken or just a live chicken, and you 0:18:33.664 --> 0:18:35.104 can hold it out. 0:18:36.504 --> 0:18:37.024 Stick it through. 0:18:37.264 --> 0:18:41.184 By the way, these little buses they're covered in wire mesh. 0:18:41.304 --> 0:18:43.504 Why because you're going to drive into where the lions 0:18:43.504 --> 0:18:45.704 and the tigers live. And then you can stick your 0:18:45.704 --> 0:18:48.264 little skewer through a hole and it's got raw chicken 0:18:48.304 --> 0:18:51.424 on it. And you could buy a whole cow where 0:18:51.464 --> 0:18:56.064 this hydraulic lift would would then send the cow down 0:18:56.584 --> 0:18:59.784 a ramp and the tiger cow a live cow, and 0:18:59.824 --> 0:19:03.224 forty tigers would just like descend on this cow. And 0:19:03.344 --> 0:19:06.184 rip it to shreds. So that's just that that's a 0:19:06.304 --> 0:19:06.944 Chinese zoo. 0:19:09.264 --> 0:19:12.064 Yeah wait, so it's like a zoo, but it's also 0:19:12.304 --> 0:19:14.344 like an amusement park. What is this? 0:19:14.464 --> 0:19:18.784 I would call it an interactive zoo. So with the elephants, 0:19:19.344 --> 0:19:21.944 and this is a very popular part of any Chinese zoo. 0:19:22.384 --> 0:19:24.624 You go see the elephant show, and so these five 0:19:24.664 --> 0:19:27.824 elephants come trotting out and they're wearing these really fancy outfits. 0:19:28.904 --> 0:19:30.304 What's a fancy elephant outfit? 0:19:30.344 --> 0:19:33.784 You know, it's got decked out and robes and spangles 0:19:33.824 --> 0:19:37.504 and mangles and all sorts of glittery whatnots, and these 0:19:37.624 --> 0:19:41.064 mohoots or these elephant trainers come out there with them, 0:19:41.104 --> 0:19:43.064 and then they roll out the soccer ball and the 0:19:43.104 --> 0:19:45.544 elephants play soccer, you know. And then they bring out 0:19:45.544 --> 0:19:48.184 the paints and the easels and the elephant's paint pictures. 0:19:48.184 --> 0:19:50.264 They've been taught how to paint a picture. And or 0:19:50.304 --> 0:19:52.784 then someone will volunteer from the crowd to come out. 0:19:52.864 --> 0:19:54.864 Someone will go out and the elephant will give it 0:19:54.864 --> 0:19:57.464 a quote unquote massage where the person lays down the 0:19:57.464 --> 0:19:59.784 elephant and take its big giant foot and kind of 0:19:59.824 --> 0:20:02.344 tap along the back of the person, and the elephants 0:20:02.384 --> 0:20:04.824 will dance and they'll spin around and they'll just do 0:20:05.224 --> 0:20:07.944 all sorts of stuff. And then after the show's over, 0:20:08.504 --> 0:20:11.224 we just kind of wander backstage go to the elephant 0:20:11.304 --> 0:20:14.064 enclosure area. When someone says, well, what are you doing? 0:20:14.104 --> 0:20:16.424 We explained, and we have a woman there working with us, 0:20:16.464 --> 0:20:20.224 traveling with us, who's serving as our interpreter. Her name 0:20:20.264 --> 0:20:23.664 is b. B explains that these are these two Western 0:20:23.664 --> 0:20:26.344 businessmen starting a zoo in Guangzhou. They want to see 0:20:26.344 --> 0:20:28.784 the elephants, and people say, oh, yeah, have a look. 0:20:28.824 --> 0:20:31.664 So we go back and we there's these eleven elephants 0:20:31.904 --> 0:20:34.544 in this enclosure and there's a guy back there who's 0:20:34.624 --> 0:20:37.144 training them. So we watch this guy teach an elephant 0:20:37.184 --> 0:20:40.104 how to shoot baskets with a basketball. We start talking 0:20:40.104 --> 0:20:43.304 to him at length and he starts telling us, oh, yeah, 0:20:43.384 --> 0:20:45.504 you know, these elephants came from this place, in this place, 0:20:45.504 --> 0:20:48.504 in this place. Not only that, we developed a relationship 0:20:48.584 --> 0:20:51.384 with this guy going forward, and we were able to 0:20:51.464 --> 0:20:54.744 learn things like, for example, as I pointed out earlier, 0:20:54.784 --> 0:20:58.544 it's illegal to sell an elephant a Laosian elephant to 0:20:58.944 --> 0:21:02.064 export it out of the country. So what was happening 0:21:02.384 --> 0:21:06.384 was false lease papers were being drawn up and it 0:21:06.464 --> 0:21:09.104 was being made to appear that these elephants would be 0:21:09.344 --> 0:21:12.104 least to this zoo in China for ten years or whatever. 0:21:12.424 --> 0:21:15.744 But in fact this guy was able to tell us that, Yeah, basically, 0:21:15.744 --> 0:21:18.304 that's all bullshit. Like you know, when you fork over 0:21:18.384 --> 0:21:21.704 your twenty thousand or eighty thousand dollars for your elephant, 0:21:22.064 --> 0:21:24.944 that's it. You know that elephant's not coming back. 0:21:25.504 --> 0:21:27.824 Wait, it's legal to lease an elephant, but not to 0:21:27.864 --> 0:21:30.744 buy one. I think that's weird. 0:21:30.744 --> 0:21:31.904 I think that's the case. 0:21:33.024 --> 0:21:36.744 That's a weird loophole. Yeah, of elephant buying. Yeah, then 0:21:36.824 --> 0:21:40.584 you travel to Boten, which is a town in Laos 0:21:40.664 --> 0:21:43.104 right on the border with China. And why are you 0:21:43.144 --> 0:21:43.584 going there? 0:21:43.984 --> 0:21:47.264 We're told that Boten is the crossing point these elephants 0:21:47.384 --> 0:21:50.424 are being shipped out of the country. And what we 0:21:50.504 --> 0:21:53.584 learn is that sometimes these elephants travel by truck out 0:21:53.624 --> 0:21:57.104 of the country and they actually go through the Laotian 0:21:57.144 --> 0:21:59.344 and then the Chinese border agents, and you know, through 0:21:59.464 --> 0:22:01.664 fake documents and such, they can get the elephants out. 0:22:01.904 --> 0:22:04.984 Other times when that isn't an option for whatever reason, 0:22:05.184 --> 0:22:10.144