1 00:00:15,304 --> 00:00:15,824 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:20,264 --> 00:00:23,144 Speaker 2: I'm Paul Cavina, and I wrote I bought an elephant 3 00:00:23,224 --> 00:00:26,104 Speaker 2: to find out how to save them for Outside magazine, 4 00:00:26,344 --> 00:00:27,584 Speaker 2: and it's the story of the week. 5 00:00:29,104 --> 00:00:32,384 Speaker 1: Look, I don't really care about animals, but I do 6 00:00:32,624 --> 00:00:35,904 Speaker 1: love a prank, and there aren't a lot of organizations 7 00:00:35,944 --> 00:00:40,064 Speaker 1: professionally dedicated to pranking other than People for the Ethical 8 00:00:40,104 --> 00:00:43,944 Speaker 1: Treatment of Animals. So back in the summer of two thousand, 9 00:00:44,144 --> 00:00:47,064 Speaker 1: I called PETA and asked if there were any cool 10 00:00:47,064 --> 00:00:49,944 Speaker 1: pranks coming up I could join them on. They invited 11 00:00:49,984 --> 00:00:54,664 Speaker 1: me to enactme supermarket in Wilmington, Delaware. Wilmington is in 12 00:00:54,744 --> 00:00:58,544 Speaker 1: the heart of chicken raising country. When I got there, 13 00:00:58,784 --> 00:01:02,064 Speaker 1: they gave me this giant chicken suit and told me 14 00:01:02,144 --> 00:01:05,184 Speaker 1: to go inside the supermarket and to fix these little 15 00:01:05,224 --> 00:01:08,624 Speaker 1: stickers to all the raw chicken products. And the sticker 16 00:01:08,704 --> 00:01:14,344 Speaker 1: said warning, this package contains the decomposing corpse of a 17 00:01:14,384 --> 00:01:18,864 Speaker 1: small tortured bird. I went in and tried to put 18 00:01:18,904 --> 00:01:22,024 Speaker 1: as many stickers on packages as I could, which was 19 00:01:22,224 --> 00:01:25,984 Speaker 1: not easy with the fake chicken hands and the lack 20 00:01:26,024 --> 00:01:29,344 Speaker 1: of visibility from the big chicken eyes that were way 21 00:01:29,384 --> 00:01:32,384 Speaker 1: too high for me. And I yelled at my lines 22 00:01:32,464 --> 00:01:35,664 Speaker 1: like give a clock as best as I could, but 23 00:01:35,864 --> 00:01:39,904 Speaker 1: someone started making threatening bocking noises at me, and that's 24 00:01:39,984 --> 00:01:44,184 Speaker 1: when the police came. They started escorting me towards the exit. 25 00:01:45,464 --> 00:01:49,344 Speaker 1: When I got outside, this officer made me stand against 26 00:01:49,344 --> 00:01:52,264 Speaker 1: the wall and started taking pictures of me, some of 27 00:01:52,304 --> 00:01:56,384 Speaker 1: them with my chicken head on. I was nervous that 28 00:01:56,424 --> 00:01:59,784 Speaker 1: these were mugshots, but they were just for the personal 29 00:01:59,904 --> 00:02:03,584 Speaker 1: use of the police officers. So I've done my part 30 00:02:03,624 --> 00:02:07,104 Speaker 1: for the animal movement, but not nearly as much as 31 00:02:07,144 --> 00:02:16,744 Speaker 1: today's guest Paul Kvinta. Writing is hard. 32 00:02:16,944 --> 00:02:20,264 Speaker 3: Who's got that kind of time when you're already busy 33 00:02:20,384 --> 00:02:22,864 Speaker 3: trying to be you all stand so it turns on 34 00:02:22,984 --> 00:02:26,904 Speaker 3: a mic. Maybe the twiddles nap because a journalist trand 35 00:02:26,944 --> 00:02:32,144 Speaker 3: has got in that juble job outories single story. Just listen, 36 00:02:32,384 --> 00:02:39,024 Speaker 3: smart people speak, conversation, film and information. It's a story. 37 00:02:39,344 --> 00:02:55,264 Speaker 1: UK. I once ate a five hundred dollars dinner alone 38 00:02:55,584 --> 00:02:58,744 Speaker 1: at a restaurant called Elnea in Chicago and put it 39 00:02:58,744 --> 00:03:02,384 Speaker 1: down on my expense report for Time Magazine as dinner 40 00:03:02,504 --> 00:03:07,144 Speaker 1: with Bruce Willis. For his article for Outside Magazine, Paul 41 00:03:07,224 --> 00:03:11,864 Speaker 1: Covinta bought an elephant. I cannot imagine what he wrote 42 00:03:11,904 --> 00:03:15,624 Speaker 1: down on his expense report. Paul, thanks for coming on. 43 00:03:15,624 --> 00:03:18,704 Speaker 1: It's the second time we've had you on the show. Congratulations. 44 00:03:18,904 --> 00:03:20,904 Speaker 2: Well thanks, I'm glad to be here. 45 00:03:21,304 --> 00:03:25,024 Speaker 1: This story is even crazier than the last one. When 46 00:03:25,064 --> 00:03:27,704 Speaker 1: I first read the title I bought an elephant, I 47 00:03:27,744 --> 00:03:29,624 Speaker 1: thought it was like an exaggeration just to get me 48 00:03:29,664 --> 00:03:32,144 Speaker 1: to read the piece, but it is not. In fact, 49 00:03:32,184 --> 00:03:36,544 Speaker 1: it's an understatement because you bought two elephants. Why didn't 50 00:03:36,584 --> 00:03:38,984 Speaker 1: you brag about buying two elephants in the headline? 51 00:03:39,144 --> 00:03:39,704 Speaker 2: I should have. 52 00:03:40,184 --> 00:03:43,184 Speaker 1: So the story starts in Laos and there's a seven 53 00:03:43,304 --> 00:03:46,904 Speaker 1: forty seven that's landed at the airport at midnight bound 54 00:03:46,944 --> 00:03:51,904 Speaker 1: for Dubai and it's picking up some very unusual cargo. 55 00:03:52,064 --> 00:03:57,504 Speaker 2: There were sixteen elephants, and Dubai was putting together a 56 00:03:57,624 --> 00:04:02,344 Speaker 2: new Safari park and they needed elephants. And there are 57 00:04:02,344 --> 00:04:06,984 Speaker 2: a lot of wealthy countries now including the Ua China, 58 00:04:07,784 --> 00:04:10,264 Speaker 2: who are creating new zoos and they need animals for 59 00:04:10,304 --> 00:04:10,864 Speaker 2: those zoos. 60 00:04:11,224 --> 00:04:13,944 Speaker 1: How do you even get elephants on an airplane like 61 00:04:13,944 --> 00:04:15,144 Speaker 1: they would just tear the place up. 62 00:04:15,224 --> 00:04:21,704 Speaker 2: No, So they had some specially made crates and they 63 00:04:21,704 --> 00:04:23,624 Speaker 2: were going to put the elephants in the crates and 64 00:04:23,624 --> 00:04:26,624 Speaker 2: then put the crates on the plane. These elephants had 65 00:04:26,664 --> 00:04:31,104 Speaker 2: been staged outside of the capital of Laos Vntien, and 66 00:04:31,504 --> 00:04:33,824 Speaker 2: this was all going to take place under cover of darkness. 67 00:04:34,024 --> 00:04:37,144 Speaker 2: Those elephants were going to be moved by big trucks 68 00:04:37,184 --> 00:04:40,104 Speaker 2: to the airstrip and put on this plane. That was 69 00:04:40,144 --> 00:04:43,904 Speaker 2: the plan. But you know, as these things go, there 70 00:04:43,984 --> 00:04:46,584 Speaker 2: was there's a lot of you know, dark money floating around. 71 00:04:46,584 --> 00:04:50,504 Speaker 1: This is all illegal, illegal under Laosian law or international law. 72 00:04:50,624 --> 00:04:54,184 Speaker 2: Under Laos law, that's correct. And apparently the Zoo and 73 00:04:54,264 --> 00:04:58,424 Speaker 2: Dubai had sent middlemen to negotiate with these mahoots in 74 00:04:59,704 --> 00:05:02,304 Speaker 2: these elephant owners in Laos and they had, you know, 75 00:05:02,384 --> 00:05:05,944 Speaker 2: reached all sorts of under the table deals. Well, somebody 76 00:05:05,984 --> 00:05:09,664 Speaker 2: didn't get their payments. Somewhere along the line, somebody complained 77 00:05:09,704 --> 00:05:12,824 Speaker 2: about us right, complained about this to officials. We don't 78 00:05:12,864 --> 00:05:15,944 Speaker 2: know exactly what happened, but literally, as this was about 79 00:05:15,984 --> 00:05:19,864 Speaker 2: to go down, suddenly all these officials appear. The elephants 80 00:05:19,904 --> 00:05:22,944 Speaker 2: get confiscated, they don't make it to the airport, and 81 00:05:23,064 --> 00:05:27,504 Speaker 2: everything falls apart, and then the president of Laos makes 82 00:05:27,544 --> 00:05:30,304 Speaker 2: the statement saying we will never part with our elephants, 83 00:05:30,344 --> 00:05:31,744 Speaker 2: and how could this have happened? 84 00:05:32,024 --> 00:05:35,624 Speaker 1: And Laos is like a global hub for wildlife tracking 85 00:05:35,744 --> 00:05:38,864 Speaker 1: like ivory and rhino horn. It is what is going 86 00:05:38,904 --> 00:05:39,744 Speaker 1: on with that country. 87 00:05:40,104 --> 00:05:44,344 Speaker 2: The institutions of Laos aren't particularly strong. There's a lot 88 00:05:44,344 --> 00:05:47,424 Speaker 2: of corruption in the government. And if you have money, 89 00:05:48,064 --> 00:05:50,104 Speaker 2: you can do do a lot of things in Laos. 90 00:05:50,144 --> 00:05:52,784 Speaker 1: It's nearby countries that now have a lot of money. 91 00:05:53,344 --> 00:05:56,184 Speaker 1: And you said that when these countries get money, they 92 00:05:56,224 --> 00:05:59,744 Speaker 1: tend to like build these lavish zoos. Is that something 93 00:05:59,784 --> 00:06:02,224 Speaker 1: you do when you get rich as a society, like 94 00:06:02,264 --> 00:06:04,504 Speaker 1: build the world's tallest building and build zoos? 95 00:06:05,064 --> 00:06:10,064 Speaker 2: I guess so, I don't know, or send people to 96 00:06:10,064 --> 00:06:14,064 Speaker 2: outer space, right right? China is building a lot of zoos, 97 00:06:14,104 --> 00:06:17,424 Speaker 2: a lot of aquariums. People have disposable income, they want 98 00:06:17,424 --> 00:06:21,064 Speaker 2: to you know, different kinds of entertainment and zoos and 99 00:06:21,104 --> 00:06:23,624 Speaker 2: aquariums would fall into that category. 100 00:06:24,304 --> 00:06:27,544 Speaker 1: Okay. And the reason there are all these elephants in 101 00:06:27,584 --> 00:06:32,304 Speaker 1: Laos that are kind of available is this unintended consequence 102 00:06:32,464 --> 00:06:35,064 Speaker 1: of a law to protect the environment there, right. 103 00:06:35,504 --> 00:06:35,984 Speaker 2: That's right. 104 00:06:36,104 --> 00:06:36,424 Speaker 4: Yeah. 105 00:06:36,584 --> 00:06:40,464 Speaker 2: Laos traces its history to the fourteenth century kingdom of 106 00:06:41,104 --> 00:06:44,904 Speaker 2: lang Zeng, which means land of a million elephants. So 107 00:06:44,944 --> 00:06:48,544 Speaker 2: there's always been a ton of elephants in Laos. They 108 00:06:48,784 --> 00:06:52,424 Speaker 2: are just a celebrated species there historically, but now the 109 00:06:52,464 --> 00:06:56,144 Speaker 2: country has only eight hundred elephants. Half of those are wild, 110 00:06:56,544 --> 00:07:01,944 Speaker 2: half are domesticated. In twenty sixteen, Lao ban the export 111 00:07:02,064 --> 00:07:06,304 Speaker 2: of unprocessed timber and elephants and their mohots had really 112 00:07:06,344 --> 00:07:08,624 Speaker 2: been the backbone of that industry. So when that was 113 00:07:08,704 --> 00:07:11,464 Speaker 2: banned and suddenly you had all of these unemployed elephants 114 00:07:11,504 --> 00:07:14,304 Speaker 2: and unemployed mohots, So that's. 115 00:07:14,144 --> 00:07:16,544 Speaker 1: Been one of the hoots. Are the people that have 116 00:07:16,784 --> 00:07:20,224 Speaker 1: for I guess centuries trained elephants to do things including 117 00:07:20,384 --> 00:07:23,264 Speaker 1: logging which is now correct, which is now illegal, to 118 00:07:23,264 --> 00:07:24,504 Speaker 1: protect the forests or. 119 00:07:24,544 --> 00:07:27,224 Speaker 2: To protect the forest And yes, as you say, the 120 00:07:27,264 --> 00:07:31,384 Speaker 2: irony is that those owners are much more you know, 121 00:07:31,424 --> 00:07:34,704 Speaker 2: there's an incentive for them to now sell their elephants, 122 00:07:34,744 --> 00:07:37,184 Speaker 2: and so they're doing it to these people in China 123 00:07:37,224 --> 00:07:39,384 Speaker 2: who are trying to create these zoos. 124 00:07:39,464 --> 00:07:42,744 Speaker 1: And I imagine the mohots, the people that train these 125 00:07:42,784 --> 00:07:45,464 Speaker 1: elephants are not happy about having their way of life 126 00:07:46,104 --> 00:07:48,464 Speaker 1: destroyed and having to sell these elephants because they're like 127 00:07:48,544 --> 00:07:51,184 Speaker 1: spiritual creatures in Laos. 128 00:07:51,544 --> 00:07:51,984 Speaker 3: That's right. 129 00:07:52,104 --> 00:07:56,544 Speaker 2: As part of this Buddhist belief, people have thirty two souls, 130 00:07:56,824 --> 00:07:59,064 Speaker 2: and the only other creatures that also have thirty two 131 00:07:59,104 --> 00:08:00,024 Speaker 2: souls or elephants. 132 00:08:00,264 --> 00:08:04,864 Speaker 1: I don't even think I have one soul thirty two. 133 00:08:06,104 --> 00:08:08,624 Speaker 1: That's exhausting just to think about how many souls do 134 00:08:08,624 --> 00:08:09,944 Speaker 1: you think you have? I have? 135 00:08:10,224 --> 00:08:14,264 Speaker 2: You know, I've got a lot, Joel, five hundred souls. 136 00:08:15,384 --> 00:08:18,704 Speaker 1: You've got a hundred lives to live through all these things. 137 00:08:20,304 --> 00:08:23,624 Speaker 1: I have not done reporting like this. Okay, So they 138 00:08:23,664 --> 00:08:26,864 Speaker 1: have these sixteen elephants that are not going to Dubai. 139 00:08:27,944 --> 00:08:29,184 Speaker 1: They have a lot of free time in their hands 140 00:08:29,224 --> 00:08:31,104 Speaker 1: now as elephants. What are they going to do with them? 141 00:08:31,584 --> 00:08:34,344 Speaker 2: These elephants end up at this wonderful place in Laos 142 00:08:34,384 --> 00:08:37,224 Speaker 2: called the Elephant Conservation Center, and. 143 00:08:37,144 --> 00:08:40,304 Speaker 1: This is like a forest somewhere. Can you pay to 144 00:08:40,344 --> 00:08:41,664 Speaker 1: go there? You can? 145 00:08:41,864 --> 00:08:43,744 Speaker 2: You can, Tourists can go, and in fact, they were 146 00:08:43,744 --> 00:08:45,264 Speaker 2: there when I spent time there. 147 00:08:45,864 --> 00:08:47,904 Speaker 1: Well, it's starting to sound a lot like a zoo. 148 00:08:50,224 --> 00:08:53,384 Speaker 2: That's funny. It's not caged in at all like a zoo. 149 00:08:53,704 --> 00:08:57,384 Speaker 2: They basically live in the forest, but they always keep 150 00:08:57,424 --> 00:09:00,544 Speaker 2: tabs on them. And if you're a paying tourist, you 151 00:09:00,584 --> 00:09:02,704 Speaker 2: can go and you stay in this sort of not 152 00:09:02,784 --> 00:09:06,304 Speaker 2: fancy lodge and and you can you know, get guided 153 00:09:06,384 --> 00:09:10,264 Speaker 2: out into the forest and where you can see these elephants, 154 00:09:10,984 --> 00:09:13,344 Speaker 2: you know, drinking at the riverside or the mood is 155 00:09:13,384 --> 00:09:17,384 Speaker 2: bathing them in the river. So it's not a zoo, 156 00:09:17,544 --> 00:09:20,224 Speaker 2: it's not completely wild either, it's somewhere in between. 157 00:09:20,704 --> 00:09:24,024 Speaker 1: So it's run by this young kind of American woman 158 00:09:24,064 --> 00:09:26,584 Speaker 1: who's twenty five, and she has this sort of crazy 159 00:09:26,704 --> 00:09:27,584 Speaker 1: idea right. 160 00:09:27,984 --> 00:09:32,304 Speaker 2: Right, So her name is Chrissantha Pinto. She is a 161 00:09:32,344 --> 00:09:37,064 Speaker 2: scientist from the United States. And so what she wants 162 00:09:37,104 --> 00:09:41,464 Speaker 2: to do, or wanted to do, is, can we take 163 00:09:41,584 --> 00:09:44,744 Speaker 2: these elephants we have here at the Elephant Conservation Center. 164 00:09:44,784 --> 00:09:48,144 Speaker 2: These are all, you know, formerly these are all domestic elephants. 165 00:09:48,264 --> 00:09:50,904 Speaker 2: They don't know each other for the most part. Can 166 00:09:50,944 --> 00:09:55,024 Speaker 2: we put five of them together and create a herd? 167 00:09:55,784 --> 00:09:58,704 Speaker 2: Now in the wild jowl an elephant herd is made 168 00:09:58,744 --> 00:10:04,184 Speaker 2: up of adult females and they're young, so no one's 169 00:10:04,184 --> 00:10:07,304 Speaker 2: ever really tried to just sort of slap together a 170 00:10:07,344 --> 00:10:10,624 Speaker 2: herd of elephants that don't otherwise know each other. People 171 00:10:10,704 --> 00:10:14,984 Speaker 2: have attempted in other Asian countries to introduce domestic elephants 172 00:10:14,984 --> 00:10:18,144 Speaker 2: into the wild, and none of those efforts have really succeeded. 173 00:10:18,464 --> 00:10:20,584 Speaker 1: The Queen of Thailand did it, right, That's. 174 00:10:20,464 --> 00:10:22,704 Speaker 2: Right, she did. They put together, you know, a handful 175 00:10:22,704 --> 00:10:24,944 Speaker 2: of elephants, put them out in the wild, and these 176 00:10:24,984 --> 00:10:28,224 Speaker 2: elephants suddenly just you know, roamed everywhere and did not 177 00:10:28,464 --> 00:10:30,384 Speaker 2: stay together as or herd, and you're just. 178 00:10:30,344 --> 00:10:33,064 Speaker 1: Like attacked people's houses and stuff. 179 00:10:32,864 --> 00:10:35,624 Speaker 2: Right exactly. Yeah, So that's one of the concerns is 180 00:10:35,624 --> 00:10:38,784 Speaker 2: that there'll be this human elephant conflict. They'll trample crops, 181 00:10:38,824 --> 00:10:43,544 Speaker 2: they'll run over houses, they'll stomp on people. Chrysantha Pento 182 00:10:43,584 --> 00:10:46,744 Speaker 2: at the Elephant Conservation Center in Lause. When she decided 183 00:10:46,784 --> 00:10:48,704 Speaker 2: how am I going to put together an elephant heard 184 00:10:48,904 --> 00:10:52,184 Speaker 2: she started with three of the elephants that had been 185 00:10:52,224 --> 00:10:55,904 Speaker 2: bound for Dubai. One was an older female and one 186 00:10:55,944 --> 00:10:58,344 Speaker 2: was a young a young elephant, a young male elephant, 187 00:10:58,344 --> 00:11:01,144 Speaker 2: a five year old and another adult who sort of 188 00:11:01,184 --> 00:11:04,464 Speaker 2: served as the doting aunt. So Chrissantha started with those 189 00:11:05,224 --> 00:11:08,704 Speaker 2: and then she added another female, and then she also 190 00:11:08,704 --> 00:11:13,424 Speaker 2: added a fifth adult female elephant and these were the 191 00:11:13,544 --> 00:11:16,024 Speaker 2: This was the herd that she watched for months there 192 00:11:16,024 --> 00:11:18,704 Speaker 2: at the Elephant Conservation Center. And you know, Joel, all 193 00:11:18,704 --> 00:11:22,264 Speaker 2: this drama unfolds inside this elephant herd. You know, the 194 00:11:22,304 --> 00:11:25,144 Speaker 2: three elephants don't like one of the other females. They 195 00:11:25,424 --> 00:11:29,304 Speaker 2: you know, they they kick at her and whatnot. And 196 00:11:29,344 --> 00:11:32,224 Speaker 2: then when the little guy, when the little elephant, the 197 00:11:32,224 --> 00:11:37,384 Speaker 2: little male elephant, gets upset, what all the females do 198 00:11:37,464 --> 00:11:42,544 Speaker 2: their mothering instinct is to reach their trunks in uh 199 00:11:42,664 --> 00:11:45,744 Speaker 2: to his growing area, because then they can somehow by 200 00:11:45,784 --> 00:11:48,864 Speaker 2: doing that, discern what his stress level is. So Chris, 201 00:11:49,144 --> 00:11:51,984 Speaker 2: every time, every time the little guy got upset and 202 00:11:52,024 --> 00:11:55,024 Speaker 2: started crying, you know, these four mother figures would come 203 00:11:55,064 --> 00:11:58,744 Speaker 2: in and you know, touches growing with their trunks. 204 00:11:59,184 --> 00:12:02,784 Speaker 1: Wait, they like wrap their trunks around the young elephant's 205 00:12:02,824 --> 00:12:04,424 Speaker 1: penis to see if he is upset. 206 00:12:04,664 --> 00:12:05,624 Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. 207 00:12:05,704 --> 00:12:10,344 Speaker 4: And when they did this, Chrisophatch, that was awesome. You know, 208 00:12:10,424 --> 00:12:12,904 Speaker 4: this this meant that they cared, you know, and they 209 00:12:13,144 --> 00:12:15,784 Speaker 4: you know that this was another one more clue that 210 00:12:15,824 --> 00:12:18,424 Speaker 4: they were going to stick together in the wild hopefully. 211 00:12:18,064 --> 00:12:20,304 Speaker 1: So this is not awesome. This is going to send 212 00:12:20,304 --> 00:12:23,064 Speaker 1: these elephants into elephant therapy for the rest of their life. 213 00:12:24,424 --> 00:12:25,744 Speaker 1: But does this work with humans? 214 00:12:25,784 --> 00:12:25,864 Speaker 2: Like? 215 00:12:25,904 --> 00:12:27,744 Speaker 1: Do we not shy that? 216 00:12:28,744 --> 00:12:31,704 Speaker 2: I have no idea. My mother certainly didn't do this 217 00:12:31,744 --> 00:12:32,984 Speaker 2: with me, Joel. If that's what you're. 218 00:12:32,824 --> 00:12:37,944 Speaker 1: Asking, your trip to this elephant conservation center sounds kind 219 00:12:37,944 --> 00:12:41,224 Speaker 1: of amazing. First of all, you're meeting all these mahoots 220 00:12:41,704 --> 00:12:43,344 Speaker 1: and what are they like? 221 00:12:44,064 --> 00:12:48,464 Speaker 2: So uh, these five elephants that we set free into 222 00:12:48,544 --> 00:12:51,664 Speaker 2: non Fui National Park, each of them came with a 223 00:12:51,704 --> 00:12:54,704 Speaker 2: mahout that had known these elephants pretty much all their lives. 224 00:12:54,744 --> 00:12:58,184 Speaker 2: Almost These men were amazed, and they were all guys. 225 00:12:58,504 --> 00:13:00,744 Speaker 2: They were amazing. I'll give you an idea. 226 00:13:00,904 --> 00:13:01,224 Speaker 1: Okay. 227 00:13:01,424 --> 00:13:05,144 Speaker 2: There was another a British guy, a guy named Mike Foulshaw, 228 00:13:05,344 --> 00:13:08,424 Speaker 2: who also worked at the Elephant Conservation Center. There were 229 00:13:08,464 --> 00:13:12,544 Speaker 2: times when I was with this group of people, me, Mike, Chysantha, 230 00:13:12,624 --> 00:13:15,504 Speaker 2: the Mohoots, the elephants, when Mike would say, well, the 231 00:13:15,544 --> 00:13:18,704 Speaker 2: GPS says we should go this way, and the mohots. 232 00:13:18,944 --> 00:13:21,864 Speaker 2: One of the moots said I've got a GPS. I've 233 00:13:21,904 --> 00:13:23,784 Speaker 2: got two and he pointed to his head and he 234 00:13:23,824 --> 00:13:26,064 Speaker 2: pointed to his heart, and he would say, yeah, we're not, 235 00:13:26,104 --> 00:13:28,584 Speaker 2: we're not. We're not listening to your GPS, Mike Felshot, 236 00:13:28,624 --> 00:13:31,864 Speaker 2: We're going that way, you know. And these guys just knew. 237 00:13:31,864 --> 00:13:33,544 Speaker 1: And they'd be right, like he'd say it. We took 238 00:13:33,584 --> 00:13:35,704 Speaker 1: an hour, and they'd get there in like ten minutes, right, 239 00:13:35,864 --> 00:13:36,344 Speaker 1: that's right. 240 00:13:36,504 --> 00:13:38,544 Speaker 2: I remember the first day we spent all day out 241 00:13:38,544 --> 00:13:41,424 Speaker 2: in the wilderness. We'd come back to camp. These guys, 242 00:13:41,664 --> 00:13:44,904 Speaker 2: you know, with their pocket knives, had created a table, chairs, 243 00:13:45,104 --> 00:13:48,464 Speaker 2: a whole lean to to cover up all of our tents. 244 00:13:48,664 --> 00:13:50,344 Speaker 2: They had gone into the river and caught all these 245 00:13:50,384 --> 00:13:52,064 Speaker 2: frogs for us to eat for dinner. 246 00:13:52,144 --> 00:13:53,264 Speaker 1: Dinner that night. 247 00:13:53,744 --> 00:13:56,064 Speaker 2: I mean, these guys are just incredible. 248 00:13:56,344 --> 00:13:58,104 Speaker 1: So they walked in with no food and they made 249 00:13:58,144 --> 00:14:00,904 Speaker 1: you a whole like dinner. Yeah yeah, yeah, okay. And 250 00:14:00,944 --> 00:14:03,664 Speaker 1: the mohots are like flying through this place, and you're 251 00:14:04,104 --> 00:14:05,584 Speaker 1: struggling to keep up with them, I assume. 252 00:14:06,264 --> 00:14:09,544 Speaker 2: Yeah, me and Chrysantha actually are having a hard time 253 00:14:09,624 --> 00:14:11,944 Speaker 2: keeping up with these guys. They're they're you know, climbing 254 00:14:11,984 --> 00:14:15,064 Speaker 2: up you know, these really steep hills. Were halfway up 255 00:14:15,064 --> 00:14:19,344 Speaker 2: this cliff, and Chrissantha realizes she has a leech in 256 00:14:19,424 --> 00:14:25,384 Speaker 2: her groin and she's she screams out, Ah, it looks 257 00:14:25,384 --> 00:14:28,064 Speaker 2: like I'm on my period. So she was upset, and 258 00:14:28,104 --> 00:14:30,024 Speaker 2: you know, I had leeches all over me, and it 259 00:14:30,064 --> 00:14:32,904 Speaker 2: was it was tough going, that's for sure, all right. 260 00:14:32,944 --> 00:14:35,784 Speaker 1: So it goes pretty well. It seems like with the 261 00:14:35,784 --> 00:14:37,424 Speaker 1: elephants in the conservation center. 262 00:14:37,624 --> 00:14:41,784 Speaker 2: Yeah, Chrissantha saw things that she thought was was quite hopeful. 263 00:14:42,144 --> 00:14:46,344 Speaker 2: The elephants were mostly staying together after I left. I 264 00:14:46,464 --> 00:14:49,664 Speaker 2: later learned during that three month span when I spoke 265 00:14:49,664 --> 00:14:55,264 Speaker 2: with Chrysantha, that male elephant started developing a relationship with 266 00:14:55,544 --> 00:14:58,424 Speaker 2: some of these female elephants, which again she considered a 267 00:14:58,504 --> 00:15:00,624 Speaker 2: very good thing. So it went pretty well. 268 00:15:00,864 --> 00:15:02,584 Speaker 1: It's like love Islands for elephants. 269 00:15:02,704 --> 00:15:05,504 Speaker 2: That's exactly what it is. I should have titled my 270 00:15:05,624 --> 00:15:07,464 Speaker 2: story love Island for Elephants. 271 00:15:07,504 --> 00:15:10,304 Speaker 1: Oh no, no, you I should have told your story. I 272 00:15:10,384 --> 00:15:16,144 Speaker 1: bought two elephants. When we come back, Paul's going to 273 00:15:16,144 --> 00:15:18,424 Speaker 1: a zoo in China to try to buy his elephants. 274 00:15:19,104 --> 00:15:23,344 Speaker 1: But first today's sponsor has an incredible offer on some 275 00:15:23,504 --> 00:15:38,184 Speaker 1: ivory tusks. Okay, So then you go to China to 276 00:15:38,304 --> 00:15:42,344 Speaker 1: this city kun Ming, and you've gone there to go 277 00:15:42,384 --> 00:15:43,504 Speaker 1: look at a zoo, right. 278 00:15:43,584 --> 00:15:46,384 Speaker 2: That's right. So after I spent time with on this 279 00:15:46,464 --> 00:15:49,784 Speaker 2: experiment of reintroducing these domestic elephants into the wild, I 280 00:15:49,904 --> 00:15:54,344 Speaker 2: connected up with an investigative filmmaker named Karl Aman. He's 281 00:15:54,344 --> 00:15:57,824 Speaker 2: a Swiss guy and he has documented different sorts of 282 00:15:57,904 --> 00:16:01,184 Speaker 2: animal trafficking all over the world. What's he like that 283 00:16:01,304 --> 00:16:04,704 Speaker 2: has these sort of sleepy eyelids? And he the person 284 00:16:04,784 --> 00:16:06,824 Speaker 2: who comes to mind to me when I think of 285 00:16:06,864 --> 00:16:10,584 Speaker 2: Carl as Peter Falk playing Colombo, got it, this kind 286 00:16:10,584 --> 00:16:14,184 Speaker 2: of frumpy guy who maybe you don't expect a lot 287 00:16:14,224 --> 00:16:16,984 Speaker 2: out of, you don't realize he's a really good investigator. 288 00:16:17,424 --> 00:16:23,704 Speaker 2: And Carl had identified two different business groups. One was Chinese, 289 00:16:23,864 --> 00:16:26,664 Speaker 2: another one was Laotian, and these two groups had been 290 00:16:26,864 --> 00:16:31,864 Speaker 2: steadily trafficking elephants out of Laos into China. And so 291 00:16:32,424 --> 00:16:36,344 Speaker 2: at one point Carl contacted the Laotian company pretending to 292 00:16:36,424 --> 00:16:40,264 Speaker 2: be a Western man who was going to start a 293 00:16:40,344 --> 00:16:44,264 Speaker 2: new zoo in Guangzhou, China. And so he asked these 294 00:16:44,384 --> 00:16:47,624 Speaker 2: this Laotian business, you know, how much can you get 295 00:16:47,624 --> 00:16:49,744 Speaker 2: me elephants? And how much would I be paying for them, 296 00:16:50,024 --> 00:16:53,264 Speaker 2: and so he started this relationship with this Laotian company 297 00:16:53,464 --> 00:16:56,064 Speaker 2: and what he learned from them was that very recently 298 00:16:56,624 --> 00:16:59,744 Speaker 2: they had just sent elephants, you know, illegally out of 299 00:16:59,824 --> 00:17:04,344 Speaker 2: Laos into China, and Carl learned which zoo they had 300 00:17:04,384 --> 00:17:07,184 Speaker 2: gone to, and if we could confirm that those elephants 301 00:17:07,224 --> 00:17:10,584 Speaker 2: were at that zoo, we would have documented this illegal 302 00:17:10,664 --> 00:17:13,544 Speaker 2: trade from Laos to China of these elephants. 303 00:17:13,824 --> 00:17:17,224 Speaker 1: So I know that Carl is pretending that he's starting 304 00:17:17,224 --> 00:17:20,384 Speaker 1: a zoo in China. Are you there as do you 305 00:17:20,384 --> 00:17:22,064 Speaker 1: tell them you're a journalist, Do you tell them that 306 00:17:22,064 --> 00:17:24,024 Speaker 1: you're working with Carl or what do you tell them 307 00:17:24,024 --> 00:17:24,464 Speaker 1: you're there for? 308 00:17:24,704 --> 00:17:27,704 Speaker 2: Carl and I are basically working under cover. We are 309 00:17:27,744 --> 00:17:32,784 Speaker 2: pretending to be a pair of Western businessmen who are 310 00:17:32,824 --> 00:17:36,744 Speaker 2: starting a zoo in Guangzhou, China, And so we are 311 00:17:36,824 --> 00:17:40,624 Speaker 2: out looking to purchase elephants, and you know, we've been 312 00:17:40,664 --> 00:17:43,464 Speaker 2: told that this particular zoo has some elephants, and we 313 00:17:43,544 --> 00:17:45,064 Speaker 2: want to see if we can buy some of those 314 00:17:45,064 --> 00:17:48,064 Speaker 2: elephants and how much they'll they'll they're going to charge us. 315 00:17:48,184 --> 00:17:51,224 Speaker 2: And so I went with Carl to this zoo and 316 00:17:51,264 --> 00:17:54,344 Speaker 2: that was a really trippy thing. Do you know much 317 00:17:54,384 --> 00:17:56,144 Speaker 2: about Chinese zoo's Joel? 318 00:17:56,944 --> 00:17:58,784 Speaker 1: If I had a dollar for every time someone asked 319 00:17:58,824 --> 00:18:02,424 Speaker 1: me that question, you know, no, what's a Chinese zoo? 320 00:18:02,504 --> 00:18:06,224 Speaker 2: Like a Chinese zoo, the relationship between the paying customers 321 00:18:06,224 --> 00:18:08,344 Speaker 2: and the animals is quite different from what we have 322 00:18:08,424 --> 00:18:11,464 Speaker 2: here in the United States. So, for example, there would 323 00:18:11,544 --> 00:18:17,264 Speaker 2: be these enclosures of predators, big big enclosures of tigers 324 00:18:17,264 --> 00:18:21,984 Speaker 2: and lions and bears and oh my, and you could 325 00:18:21,984 --> 00:18:23,744 Speaker 2: buy a ticket, and Carl and I did this. We 326 00:18:24,104 --> 00:18:26,424 Speaker 2: bought a ticket and a little mini bus can drive 327 00:18:26,504 --> 00:18:29,984 Speaker 2: you through these enclosures and you can buy food skewers 328 00:18:30,024 --> 00:18:33,624 Speaker 2: of raw chicken or just a live chicken, and you 329 00:18:33,664 --> 00:18:35,104 Speaker 2: can hold it out. 330 00:18:36,504 --> 00:18:37,024 Speaker 1: Stick it through. 331 00:18:37,264 --> 00:18:41,184 Speaker 2: By the way, these little buses they're covered in wire mesh. 332 00:18:41,304 --> 00:18:43,504 Speaker 2: Why because you're going to drive into where the lions 333 00:18:43,504 --> 00:18:45,704 Speaker 2: and the tigers live. And then you can stick your 334 00:18:45,704 --> 00:18:48,264 Speaker 2: little skewer through a hole and it's got raw chicken 335 00:18:48,304 --> 00:18:51,424 Speaker 2: on it. And you could buy a whole cow where 336 00:18:51,464 --> 00:18:56,064 Speaker 2: this hydraulic lift would would then send the cow down 337 00:18:56,584 --> 00:18:59,784 Speaker 2: a ramp and the tiger cow a live cow, and 338 00:18:59,824 --> 00:19:03,224 Speaker 2: forty tigers would just like descend on this cow. And 339 00:19:03,344 --> 00:19:06,184 Speaker 2: rip it to shreds. So that's just that that's a 340 00:19:06,304 --> 00:19:06,944 Speaker 2: Chinese zoo. 341 00:19:09,264 --> 00:19:12,064 Speaker 1: Yeah wait, so it's like a zoo, but it's also 342 00:19:12,304 --> 00:19:14,344 Speaker 1: like an amusement park. What is this? 343 00:19:14,464 --> 00:19:18,784 Speaker 2: I would call it an interactive zoo. So with the elephants, 344 00:19:19,344 --> 00:19:21,944 Speaker 2: and this is a very popular part of any Chinese zoo. 345 00:19:22,384 --> 00:19:24,624 Speaker 2: You go see the elephant show, and so these five 346 00:19:24,664 --> 00:19:27,824 Speaker 2: elephants come trotting out and they're wearing these really fancy outfits. 347 00:19:28,904 --> 00:19:30,304 Speaker 1: What's a fancy elephant outfit? 348 00:19:30,344 --> 00:19:33,784 Speaker 2: You know, it's got decked out and robes and spangles 349 00:19:33,824 --> 00:19:37,504 Speaker 2: and mangles and all sorts of glittery whatnots, and these 350 00:19:37,624 --> 00:19:41,064 Speaker 2: mohoots or these elephant trainers come out there with them, 351 00:19:41,104 --> 00:19:43,064 Speaker 2: and then they roll out the soccer ball and the 352 00:19:43,104 --> 00:19:45,544 Speaker 2: elephants play soccer, you know. And then they bring out 353 00:19:45,544 --> 00:19:48,184 Speaker 2: the paints and the easels and the elephant's paint pictures. 354 00:19:48,184 --> 00:19:50,264 Speaker 2: They've been taught how to paint a picture. And or 355 00:19:50,304 --> 00:19:52,784 Speaker 2: then someone will volunteer from the crowd to come out. 356 00:19:52,864 --> 00:19:54,864 Speaker 2: Someone will go out and the elephant will give it 357 00:19:54,864 --> 00:19:57,464 Speaker 2: a quote unquote massage where the person lays down the 358 00:19:57,464 --> 00:19:59,784 Speaker 2: elephant and take its big giant foot and kind of 359 00:19:59,824 --> 00:20:02,344 Speaker 2: tap along the back of the person, and the elephants 360 00:20:02,384 --> 00:20:04,824 Speaker 2: will dance and they'll spin around and they'll just do 361 00:20:05,224 --> 00:20:07,944 Speaker 2: all sorts of stuff. And then after the show's over, 362 00:20:08,504 --> 00:20:11,224 Speaker 2: we just kind of wander backstage go to the elephant 363 00:20:11,304 --> 00:20:14,064 Speaker 2: enclosure area. When someone says, well, what are you doing? 364 00:20:14,104 --> 00:20:16,424 Speaker 2: We explained, and we have a woman there working with us, 365 00:20:16,464 --> 00:20:20,224 Speaker 2: traveling with us, who's serving as our interpreter. Her name 366 00:20:20,264 --> 00:20:23,664 Speaker 2: is b. B explains that these are these two Western 367 00:20:23,664 --> 00:20:26,344 Speaker 2: businessmen starting a zoo in Guangzhou. They want to see 368 00:20:26,344 --> 00:20:28,784 Speaker 2: the elephants, and people say, oh, yeah, have a look. 369 00:20:28,824 --> 00:20:31,664 Speaker 2: So we go back and we there's these eleven elephants 370 00:20:31,904 --> 00:20:34,544 Speaker 2: in this enclosure and there's a guy back there who's 371 00:20:34,624 --> 00:20:37,144 Speaker 2: training them. So we watch this guy teach an elephant 372 00:20:37,184 --> 00:20:40,104 Speaker 2: how to shoot baskets with a basketball. We start talking 373 00:20:40,104 --> 00:20:43,304 Speaker 2: to him at length and he starts telling us, oh, yeah, 374 00:20:43,384 --> 00:20:45,504 Speaker 2: you know, these elephants came from this place, in this place, 375 00:20:45,504 --> 00:20:48,504 Speaker 2: in this place. Not only that, we developed a relationship 376 00:20:48,584 --> 00:20:51,384 Speaker 2: with this guy going forward, and we were able to 377 00:20:51,464 --> 00:20:54,744 Speaker 2: learn things like, for example, as I pointed out earlier, 378 00:20:54,784 --> 00:20:58,544 Speaker 2: it's illegal to sell an elephant a Laosian elephant to 379 00:20:58,944 --> 00:21:02,064 Speaker 2: export it out of the country. So what was happening 380 00:21:02,384 --> 00:21:06,384 Speaker 2: was false lease papers were being drawn up and it 381 00:21:06,464 --> 00:21:09,104 Speaker 2: was being made to appear that these elephants would be 382 00:21:09,344 --> 00:21:12,104 Speaker 2: least to this zoo in China for ten years or whatever. 383 00:21:12,424 --> 00:21:15,744 Speaker 2: But in fact this guy was able to tell us that, Yeah, basically, 384 00:21:15,744 --> 00:21:18,304 Speaker 2: that's all bullshit. Like you know, when you fork over 385 00:21:18,384 --> 00:21:21,704 Speaker 2: your twenty thousand or eighty thousand dollars for your elephant, 386 00:21:22,064 --> 00:21:24,944 Speaker 2: that's it. You know that elephant's not coming back. 387 00:21:25,504 --> 00:21:27,824 Speaker 1: Wait, it's legal to lease an elephant, but not to 388 00:21:27,864 --> 00:21:30,744 Speaker 1: buy one. I think that's weird. 389 00:21:30,744 --> 00:21:31,904 Speaker 2: I think that's the case. 390 00:21:33,024 --> 00:21:36,744 Speaker 1: That's a weird loophole. Yeah, of elephant buying. Yeah, then 391 00:21:36,824 --> 00:21:40,584 Speaker 1: you travel to Boten, which is a town in Laos 392 00:21:40,664 --> 00:21:43,104 Speaker 1: right on the border with China. And why are you 393 00:21:43,144 --> 00:21:43,584 Speaker 1: going there? 394 00:21:43,984 --> 00:21:47,264 Speaker 2: We're told that Boten is the crossing point these elephants 395 00:21:47,384 --> 00:21:50,424 Speaker 2: are being shipped out of the country. And what we 396 00:21:50,504 --> 00:21:53,584 Speaker 2: learn is that sometimes these elephants travel by truck out 397 00:21:53,624 --> 00:21:57,104 Speaker 2: of the country and they actually go through the Laotian 398 00:21:57,144 --> 00:21:59,344 Speaker 2: and then the Chinese border agents, and you know, through 399 00:21:59,464 --> 00:22:01,664 Speaker 2: fake documents and such, they can get the elephants out. 400 00:22:01,904 --> 00:22:04,984 Speaker 2: Other times when that isn't an option for whatever reason, 401 00:22:05,184 --> 00:22:10,144 Speaker 2: these mohoots will walk walk, you know, trains of elephants 402 00:22:10,704 --> 00:22:14,744 Speaker 2: through the bushes, kind of around the proper border crossing. 403 00:22:15,104 --> 00:22:16,544 Speaker 1: What is that city? 404 00:22:16,704 --> 00:22:21,704 Speaker 2: Like, Boten is a crazy, crazy place. At one point 405 00:22:21,704 --> 00:22:24,424 Speaker 2: it was a gambling mecca. It was, you know, kind 406 00:22:24,464 --> 00:22:26,864 Speaker 2: of a red light district and all these Chinese tourists 407 00:22:26,904 --> 00:22:30,224 Speaker 2: would go there and it thrived for a while, but 408 00:22:30,264 --> 00:22:32,544 Speaker 2: then I think someone got killed and there was a 409 00:22:32,584 --> 00:22:35,464 Speaker 2: bunch of fishy stuff and then it kind of died 410 00:22:35,544 --> 00:22:38,624 Speaker 2: as a town. But when I arrived, new Chinese money 411 00:22:38,664 --> 00:22:41,024 Speaker 2: was coming into it, but it was very much a 412 00:22:41,064 --> 00:22:42,144 Speaker 2: wild West place. 413 00:22:42,424 --> 00:22:46,224 Speaker 1: It's like the Nevada of totally of the East. Like 414 00:22:46,264 --> 00:22:47,464 Speaker 1: if you have a lot of money in China and 415 00:22:47,504 --> 00:22:49,944 Speaker 1: you want a crazy bachelor party weekend, you go to 416 00:22:49,984 --> 00:22:51,104 Speaker 1: Post exactly. Yeah. 417 00:22:51,184 --> 00:22:53,184 Speaker 2: And so when I went there, there was a lot 418 00:22:53,224 --> 00:22:57,664 Speaker 2: of unoccupied tall buildings. There was like no one in 419 00:22:57,704 --> 00:23:00,864 Speaker 2: the town, but building was happening like crazy. There was 420 00:23:00,904 --> 00:23:03,704 Speaker 2: cranes all over the place, earth movers they were blowing 421 00:23:03,784 --> 00:23:07,144 Speaker 2: up hillsides to create flat space. I mean there was 422 00:23:07,224 --> 00:23:10,544 Speaker 2: just dust everywhere. And in the midst of all this, 423 00:23:11,264 --> 00:23:14,984 Speaker 2: there was this one theater that Chinese tourists would come 424 00:23:15,024 --> 00:23:18,064 Speaker 2: over in buses and go to this show and it 425 00:23:18,144 --> 00:23:22,024 Speaker 2: was a drag show. This place was called Club Excellente. 426 00:23:22,464 --> 00:23:25,304 Speaker 2: It had neon and you know, it was just kind 427 00:23:25,304 --> 00:23:27,864 Speaker 2: of this really sad looking place. 428 00:23:28,464 --> 00:23:29,424 Speaker 1: Did you go to the show? 429 00:23:29,584 --> 00:23:31,664 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I did go to the show. 430 00:23:31,824 --> 00:23:33,384 Speaker 1: I did go to the show. I have to go 431 00:23:33,464 --> 00:23:34,424 Speaker 1: to the show. 432 00:23:34,464 --> 00:23:37,264 Speaker 2: In the parking lot of clubex the very large parking 433 00:23:37,264 --> 00:23:41,744 Speaker 2: lot of Club Excellente, there's two elephants basically living in 434 00:23:41,784 --> 00:23:44,824 Speaker 2: the parking lot. There's a male elephant and a female elephant. 435 00:23:45,224 --> 00:23:48,544 Speaker 2: So late in the day, the mahout goes into the 436 00:23:48,544 --> 00:23:50,544 Speaker 2: patch of forest to get his elephant and he walks 437 00:23:50,584 --> 00:23:54,344 Speaker 2: those two elephants back and what he's that half mile 438 00:23:55,464 --> 00:23:59,384 Speaker 2: there's just dump trucks and earth movers and they're literally 439 00:24:00,144 --> 00:24:04,304 Speaker 2: making explosions, these construction crews to blow up these hills 440 00:24:04,344 --> 00:24:07,184 Speaker 2: to create flat space to build more buildings. So these 441 00:24:07,304 --> 00:24:12,064 Speaker 2: poor two elephants are walking across this moonscape of red 442 00:24:12,424 --> 00:24:15,504 Speaker 2: destroyed earth. And they come back and they get to 443 00:24:15,544 --> 00:24:17,984 Speaker 2: the parking lot and the hoot sort of chains their 444 00:24:18,144 --> 00:24:21,144 Speaker 2: their them by their feet to the parking lot and 445 00:24:21,184 --> 00:24:25,704 Speaker 2: then you know it's dusk. These Chinese buses arrive, they 446 00:24:25,744 --> 00:24:28,424 Speaker 2: disgorge all these tourists. The tourists are happy, you know, 447 00:24:28,464 --> 00:24:30,904 Speaker 2: they're getting their photos taken with the elephants. The drag 448 00:24:31,024 --> 00:24:34,624 Speaker 2: queens come out and they you know, they're entertaining the 449 00:24:34,624 --> 00:24:38,304 Speaker 2: these Chinese tourists. And and then at a certain point 450 00:24:38,944 --> 00:24:41,184 Speaker 2: it's time for the show. So everyone goes inside for 451 00:24:41,264 --> 00:24:44,064 Speaker 2: the show, the drag show, and for two hours. And 452 00:24:44,104 --> 00:24:47,224 Speaker 2: then when they come out, it's dark. Uh, someone builds 453 00:24:47,224 --> 00:24:51,344 Speaker 2: a bonfire, and then you know, there's dancing and techno music, 454 00:24:51,424 --> 00:24:53,864 Speaker 2: and then there's these giant conga lines that are whinding 455 00:24:53,864 --> 00:24:56,704 Speaker 2: around the parking lot, whining around the elephants. I mean, 456 00:24:56,744 --> 00:25:01,784 Speaker 2: it's just completely insane. And these two poor elephants, these 457 00:25:01,784 --> 00:25:04,344 Speaker 2: are two wild creatures and they're having to live like this, 458 00:25:04,584 --> 00:25:06,784 Speaker 2: and so the elephants are there as a further means 459 00:25:06,784 --> 00:25:09,024 Speaker 2: to entertain these these these Chinese tourists. 460 00:25:09,544 --> 00:25:12,864 Speaker 1: So at this point, are you still undercover as elephant buyers. 461 00:25:13,224 --> 00:25:15,744 Speaker 2: Carl had said to me, you're going to meet the 462 00:25:15,744 --> 00:25:20,904 Speaker 2: mahout whose family owns these two elephants living miserable lives 463 00:25:20,904 --> 00:25:24,304 Speaker 2: in this parking lot of a drag show. If you 464 00:25:24,304 --> 00:25:27,464 Speaker 2: get an opportunity, I want you to talk to this 465 00:25:27,504 --> 00:25:30,664 Speaker 2: guy about buying those two elephants so that we can 466 00:25:30,744 --> 00:25:33,824 Speaker 2: have them move to the Elephant Conservation Center and allows 467 00:25:34,104 --> 00:25:35,184 Speaker 2: to live a better life. 468 00:25:35,744 --> 00:25:39,544 Speaker 1: What how crazy? What do you what's your reaction to that? 469 00:25:39,584 --> 00:25:42,184 Speaker 1: When he asked you to buy an elephant or two elephants? 470 00:25:42,304 --> 00:25:45,424 Speaker 2: Well, you know, it was just there had been you know, 471 00:25:45,424 --> 00:25:47,784 Speaker 2: we had just done this whole undercover thing and you know, 472 00:25:47,824 --> 00:25:51,744 Speaker 2: I don't know how spies do it, man, but you know, 473 00:25:51,864 --> 00:25:55,224 Speaker 2: so for him to actually ask me to do that, yeah, 474 00:25:55,224 --> 00:25:57,424 Speaker 2: it seemed a little weird, but it did seem any 475 00:25:57,464 --> 00:26:00,944 Speaker 2: weirder than anything he and I had done to that point. 476 00:26:01,064 --> 00:26:03,064 Speaker 2: And it certainly didn't seem anything weirder than I had 477 00:26:03,064 --> 00:26:05,464 Speaker 2: already seen in all these Chinese zoos, and as I said, 478 00:26:05,504 --> 00:26:07,624 Speaker 2: I was at at least three of them, and then 479 00:26:07,664 --> 00:26:12,544 Speaker 2: when I got to ten and saw what these elephants 480 00:26:12,584 --> 00:26:15,584 Speaker 2: were living through, it made perfect sense that if someone 481 00:26:15,624 --> 00:26:18,624 Speaker 2: needed to buy these elephants and get them out of there. 482 00:26:19,464 --> 00:26:22,304 Speaker 1: So you're talking to this mahoot about trying to buy 483 00:26:22,344 --> 00:26:26,144 Speaker 1: these two elephants from him? What's the asking price for 484 00:26:26,184 --> 00:26:26,704 Speaker 1: an elephant? 485 00:26:27,024 --> 00:26:27,104 Speaker 2: Like? 486 00:26:27,744 --> 00:26:29,584 Speaker 1: How high were you allowed to bid. 487 00:26:29,904 --> 00:26:32,664 Speaker 2: The mahoot wanted one hundred and ten thousand dollars for 488 00:26:32,704 --> 00:26:33,624 Speaker 2: the elephants. 489 00:26:34,024 --> 00:26:37,464 Speaker 1: Is that kind of the normal elephant price? You know? 490 00:26:37,944 --> 00:26:40,704 Speaker 2: Working on the story, I saw prices for elephants ranging 491 00:26:40,744 --> 00:26:44,184 Speaker 2: from twenty thousand dollars for an adult male to two 492 00:26:44,304 --> 00:26:47,784 Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars for a much prized elephant calf. 493 00:26:48,144 --> 00:26:49,664 Speaker 1: Oh the babies go for more. 494 00:26:49,784 --> 00:26:52,544 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, because you can teach them more tricks. 495 00:26:54,384 --> 00:26:57,184 Speaker 2: They're going to live longer. So yeah, the babies were 496 00:26:57,224 --> 00:27:01,184 Speaker 2: super super important in this, in this illegal trade. You know, 497 00:27:01,304 --> 00:27:03,264 Speaker 2: once we realized that the guy was open to it, 498 00:27:03,584 --> 00:27:06,664 Speaker 2: then Carl got with the guy and began the real 499 00:27:06,744 --> 00:27:09,704 Speaker 2: work of the deal, and then it came you know, 500 00:27:09,744 --> 00:27:12,464 Speaker 2: then we started the gofund me page. I was at 501 00:27:12,464 --> 00:27:14,704 Speaker 2: the very the very beginning, is Paul, you're going to 502 00:27:14,704 --> 00:27:16,384 Speaker 2: bout ten ask this guy if he would tell me 503 00:27:16,384 --> 00:27:16,984 Speaker 2: of these elephants. 504 00:27:17,064 --> 00:27:20,624 Speaker 1: That's kind of you're more of an elephant broker, really, I'm. 505 00:27:20,464 --> 00:27:22,304 Speaker 2: An elephants middleman, Joel, get it right. 506 00:27:24,464 --> 00:27:26,824 Speaker 1: But Carl pulled this off, like he raised the money 507 00:27:26,944 --> 00:27:29,624 Speaker 1: or paid for part of it. He moved them into 508 00:27:29,984 --> 00:27:34,144 Speaker 1: the elephant conservation center where you started. That's right, right, 509 00:27:34,784 --> 00:27:38,064 Speaker 1: every part of this story is shocking. I know so 510 00:27:38,144 --> 00:27:39,024 Speaker 1: little about the world. 511 00:27:39,264 --> 00:27:40,064 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy. 512 00:27:40,744 --> 00:27:43,984 Speaker 1: Paul Kevint, a two time guest, you wrote, I bought 513 00:27:44,024 --> 00:27:46,464 Speaker 1: an elephant to find out how to save them for outside. 514 00:27:46,984 --> 00:27:50,944 Speaker 1: Thank you for having the guts to return after what 515 00:27:50,944 --> 00:27:51,904 Speaker 1: we did to you the first time. 516 00:27:53,784 --> 00:27:56,064 Speaker 2: Well thanks, Joel. Yeah, yeah it did. It did request 517 00:27:56,104 --> 00:27:57,104 Speaker 2: some bravery on my part. 518 00:27:57,304 --> 00:28:02,024 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've learned to be nicer a little bit. I'm 519 00:28:02,104 --> 00:28:06,264 Speaker 1: worried that we've been unfair to Chinese zoos. To clarify, 520 00:28:06,544 --> 00:28:10,144 Speaker 1: let me just say that American zoos are horrible places too, 521 00:28:10,904 --> 00:28:14,824 Speaker 1: not just the small local tiger king joints, but our 522 00:28:14,904 --> 00:28:19,584 Speaker 1: major La San Diego zoos too. They're so awful for 523 00:28:19,624 --> 00:28:23,184 Speaker 1: the animals there that a huge portion of the animals 524 00:28:23,304 --> 00:28:27,544 Speaker 1: are actually given antidepressants every day, Like more of the 525 00:28:27,624 --> 00:28:30,064 Speaker 1: animals there than the human beings who are in La 526 00:28:30,104 --> 00:28:33,864 Speaker 1: and San Diego. If you want to see animals, just 527 00:28:33,944 --> 00:28:37,024 Speaker 1: go see them in the wild or the poultry section 528 00:28:37,104 --> 00:28:40,704 Speaker 1: from the Acme supermarket in Wilmington, Delaware. I really did 529 00:28:40,824 --> 00:28:43,944 Speaker 1: learn nothing from Peta. 530 00:28:44,864 --> 00:28:48,064 Speaker 3: At the end of the show, what's next for Joel Stein. 531 00:28:48,264 --> 00:28:52,264 Speaker 3: Maybe he'll take a nap poker Round Online. 532 00:28:52,344 --> 00:28:56,144 Speaker 1: Our show is produced by Joey fish Ground, Mola Board 533 00:28:56,704 --> 00:29:00,544 Speaker 1: and Nishavenka. It was edited by Lydia jen Kapp. Our 534 00:29:00,584 --> 00:29:03,384 Speaker 1: engineer is Amanda kay Wang and our executive producer is 535 00:29:03,584 --> 00:29:07,464 Speaker 1: Catharinald Cherradah. Our theme song was produced by Jonathan Colton. 536 00:29:07,944 --> 00:29:10,664 Speaker 1: A special thanks to my coach Vicky Merrick and my 537 00:29:10,784 --> 00:29:15,624 Speaker 1: consulting producer Laurence Alasnik. To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen 538 00:29:15,744 --> 00:29:19,824 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 539 00:29:19,864 --> 00:29:24,344 Speaker 1: to your podcasts. I'm Joel Stein and this is story 540 00:29:24,344 --> 00:29:28,824 Speaker 1: of the week. How much would an elephant that can 541 00:29:28,864 --> 00:29:29,544 Speaker 1: fly go for? 542 00:29:31,344 --> 00:29:33,224 Speaker 2: Fly like a seven forty seven on its way to 543 00:29:33,264 --> 00:29:37,704 Speaker 2: Dubai and I'm more like Dumbo. Yeah, you're probably looking 544 00:29:37,744 --> 00:29:38,704 Speaker 2: at a few million for that.