Speaker 1: Call it what it Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Lettington,
Speaker 1: an iHeartRadio podcast. Oh my, oh my, what a beautiful day. Hello,
Speaker 1: Caamelle Lettington.
Speaker 2: Hello Jessica Capshaw and welcome everybody. Welcome. Call it crude
Speaker 2: to another episode of Short and Sweet.
Speaker 1: Keep it short and sweet, Keep it sweet sweet. If
Speaker 1: I want to make it long and sour.
Speaker 2: Long and sour, that'll be. You know what, we can
Speaker 2: call the other episodes long and sour.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe a little different one about that. You know,
Speaker 1: what you just reminded me of as we started was
Speaker 1: that you are one of the only people in my
Speaker 1: life that calls me Jess. Did you know that?
Speaker 2: No? Yeah? Really?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Who else calls you Jess?
Speaker 1: Now I have to know well to be honest, now
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it, and I'm drawing a blank.
Speaker 2: You.
Speaker 1: You definitely are the only person that's in my life
Speaker 1: on the regular that calls me Jess. Who else calls
Speaker 1: me Jess?
Speaker 2: I feel like everybody on set called you Jess.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, that was your own special that was
Speaker 1: your own special name flair. Yeah yeah, I mean my
Speaker 1: my family in Missouri say they called me Jesse Jesse.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm Jesse. There, I'm Jess with.
Speaker 2: You, Duayne to a revert, try calling Joey.
Speaker 1: The reason I thought of it was it's short and sweet.
Speaker 1: You just you made me. You were one of the
Speaker 1: first people to make me short and sweet. Oh jeez, oh, Jess,
Speaker 1: guess what we're talking about today.
Speaker 2: M tell me boundaries. Yeah, we are.
Speaker 1: Didn't even know what the word was until I was
Speaker 1: in my thirties.
Speaker 2: No one did. It was kept from women for centuries.
Speaker 1: Oh, this thing called boundaries. Nope, you don't get to
Speaker 1: know about.
Speaker 2: They're like, don't worry about what that is and look
Speaker 2: the other way. Yeah.
Speaker 1: A boundary is just a line on a map, Yeah,
Speaker 1: or exact the territory boundary. That's what you learn about.
Speaker 2: In history, geography, and movie.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's a geography. It's a it's a geography term
Speaker 1: that that that that that I'm very happy has turned
Speaker 1: into a what would you call it? An emotional a psychological? Uh,
Speaker 1: A feelings term that we have started to accept and
Speaker 1: understand is something that you create in order to let
Speaker 1: other people know where you feel respected, safe, understood. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's a line between what is okay with you
Speaker 1: and and then what is not and if it crosses
Speaker 1: a line, it's not okay with you or you haven't
Speaker 1: given uh a person or people permission or consented to
Speaker 1: people crossing it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right, Yes, it is. This. So it's funny
Speaker 2: because Jessica and I and I'm sure you guys do
Speaker 2: we talk about boundaries privately, you know, with friends, and
Speaker 2: we've talked about on the pod before. But this particular
Speaker 2: episode was inspired by I'm not gonna call her Chapelle
Speaker 2: Chapel Rohan's statement that came out recently and well, she
Speaker 2: made some maybe a story of reels initially about boundaries,
Speaker 2: and she got a ton of backlash about it, and
Speaker 2: I found it kind of fascinating.
Speaker 1: Well hold on, but hold on, just let's just back
Speaker 1: every one second. So when you say backlash, I feel
Speaker 1: like that's negative.
Speaker 2: I would definitely characterize as backlash.
Speaker 1: Right, But I'm saying she got a ton of feedback.
Speaker 1: Is there any way of understanding because I knew a
Speaker 1: lot of people that were like, fuck yeah what she said,
Speaker 1: Like what she said was great, and then I know
Speaker 1: that there were a lot of people who were like, oh,
Speaker 1: I don't like what she said. So it was but
Speaker 1: do we understand it to be predominantly negative how people
Speaker 1: felt about her post.
Speaker 2: I think that she wouldn't have had to feel like
Speaker 2: she had to release a sort of statement at it
Speaker 2: after to explain herself further. Had the majority of the
Speaker 2: feedback been positive. I think the majority or the loudest voices,
Speaker 2: which can happen all the time on social media, were negative.
Speaker 2: So first off, we should just talk about what she said,
Speaker 2: and then we can talk about our own experiences. And
Speaker 2: then we did throw this out to the crew, and
Speaker 2: we can we threw out the boundaries your experience boundaries too, Okay,
Speaker 2: So let's talk about what she released. And my understanding
Speaker 2: is that she has been around for a very long time,
Speaker 2: working very hard, and it's exceptionally talented. Obviously, However, in
Speaker 2: the past, I love her, I love her, but I
Speaker 2: didn't know about her up until about six months ago.
Speaker 2: And I feel like this explosion that has launched her
Speaker 2: into the stratosphere of the public domain the world. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the fame machine is very new to her and so
Speaker 2: she has some thoughts and feelings about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it's a seven page slide in which she
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the greatest thing about social media
Speaker 1: is that this is directly from her right, so no
Speaker 1: one's speaking for her. This is there's no filter on this.
Speaker 1: This is her thoughts to people who sign up to
Speaker 1: care about what she has to say. So she starts
Speaker 1: it with saying that for the past ten years, I've
Speaker 1: been going NonStop to build my project, and it's come
Speaker 1: to the point that I need to draw lines and
Speaker 1: set boundaries. Well, here's the here's the major here's the
Speaker 1: major point of the beginning of her her her post,
Speaker 1: which is that she explains that she won to be
Speaker 1: an artist for a very long time. I've been in
Speaker 1: too many non consensual physical and social interactions that I
Speaker 1: just need to lay it out and remind you. Women
Speaker 1: don't owe you shit. I chose this career path because
Speaker 1: I love me. It's like an art and honoring my
Speaker 1: inner child. I do not accept harassment of any kind
Speaker 1: because I chose this path, nor do I deserve it.
Speaker 2: Yes, people had a lot of feelings. Some of the
Speaker 2: feedback I read that was negative was was that you
Speaker 2: haven't been famous long enough to pull this kind of bullshit,
Speaker 2: and people asking you for a picture is not invading
Speaker 2: your space or you know, or saying hi to you.
Speaker 2: And I think one thing that we have to address
Speaker 2: off the top is it may not feel if someone
Speaker 2: asked you for a picture. It may not feel to
Speaker 2: you as a person like it's an invasive thing. But
Speaker 2: everyone feels differently. Everyone has different boundaries, and she's letting
Speaker 2: people know that for her, this is that it does
Speaker 2: feel invasive. So I think that, like, I think, something
Speaker 2: we run into all the time is not being able
Speaker 2: to relate to someone else's boundaries, but it doesn't mean
Speaker 2: they're not valid.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because everyone's are different. Yeah. I think that
Speaker 1: that's that's the main and key piece. And I think
Speaker 1: that it's made really hard to understand in this particular
Speaker 1: example because I think that when you're in a relationship
Speaker 1: with someone who you know, it's a conversation. Boundaries are
Speaker 1: a conversation like hey, can I do this? Would you
Speaker 1: like to do that? It's a contract you're saying, you're
Speaker 1: signing up for it when you're in real time with
Speaker 1: a real person and you can have, you know, a
Speaker 1: back and forth where you can understand each other. And
Speaker 1: in this situation, you know, she's larger than life, and
Speaker 1: she's on stages and she's you know, on your on
Speaker 1: whatever device you're looking at. She's she's got this whole
Speaker 1: other thing that's her performance, which is her job.
Speaker 2: She's at work, and also is maybe her persona the
Speaker 2: it's not her right, Like we have to sometimes like
Speaker 2: split the artist from the everyday person who's going to
Speaker 2: get their groceries, who just wants to go out and
Speaker 2: have dinner with their friends.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, which is very very different, and I
Speaker 1: think that that is where a lot of it's like
Speaker 1: a very ripe environment for people to have different feelings
Speaker 1: about it, because again, you feel like you have access
Speaker 1: to someone because they're performing and you're receiving the information,
Speaker 1: you're seeing it, you're enjoying it, you're loving it, you
Speaker 1: feel a closeness to this person whatever.
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 1: It's funny because she goes on to say that she's
Speaker 1: you know, it's not just that she's not. I don't
Speaker 1: think it doesn't seem like she's talking about like, hey,
Speaker 1: can I take a picture with you? She says, you know, quote,
Speaker 1: I am specifically talking about predatory behavior disguised as quote
Speaker 1: super fan behavior that has become normalized because of the
Speaker 1: way women who are well known have been treated in
Speaker 1: the past. So I mean, I think that that's what
Speaker 1: is Again, it's a one way conversation. It's her, you know,
Speaker 1: her her voice to the public. It's not. No one's
Speaker 1: in a real relationship here. That's the hard part. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't have this isn't a conversation. And I think
Speaker 1: that that is what happens quite often in any of
Speaker 1: these situations, which is what I actually just learned about this,
Speaker 1: by the way, is parasocial relationships where you're feeling like, oh,
Speaker 1: I see you. I think this happens a lot on
Speaker 1: Gray's Anatomy.
Speaker 2: I think it does.
Speaker 1: I think when you're on a television show where you're
Speaker 1: in someone's living space and they're watching you, and they're
Speaker 1: watching you act, and you're creating this character, and this
Speaker 1: character has the ups and downs and all arounds, and
Speaker 1: you and and and hopefully if the if the actor
Speaker 1: and the show is doing their job, they're making you
Speaker 1: feel all these things as a viewer. And oftentimes people
Speaker 1: can blur the lines and they think that they truly
Speaker 1: know you by the way that you would be your character,
Speaker 1: and then they are in this you know, parasocial relationship.
Speaker 1: I again, this is new to me. It was a
Speaker 1: new phrase, and I but it makes complete sense. I
Speaker 1: get it. I have another question, which is just I
Speaker 1: don't know, thrown it out there, because what she's talking
Speaker 1: about is very specific when she's because she talks about
Speaker 1: being a woman and in that you know original quote
Speaker 1: where she says women don't know you shit, she's speaking
Speaker 1: as a woman. And and I'm wondering if a man
Speaker 1: had posted this would be received differently. I don't know
Speaker 1: the answer to that. By the way, I'm just throwing
Speaker 1: it out there.
Speaker 2: I have a feeling that if my instinct is that
Speaker 2: if Harry Styles posted something like this, yes, there's always
Speaker 2: going to be backlash. I have a feeling though, that
Speaker 2: it would not be received in the same way. Just
Speaker 2: my opinion.
Speaker 1: Well, and it's funny because when you say that, it
Speaker 1: makes me think of I mean again, this is my interpretation.
Speaker 1: When you think about you know, the like they give
Speaker 1: the quintessential you know, like superstar, rock rock and roll,
Speaker 1: pop star, whatever man or male figure or group band
Speaker 1: like you look. Do you think back on like you know,
Speaker 1: the Beatles, until like in Sync, Boys, Men, Backstreet or whatever.
Speaker 1: You think about these bands? You think about all the
Speaker 1: video footage of that made that actually contributed to making
Speaker 1: them larger than life and seem even greater and bigger
Speaker 1: and sexier and hotter, which was the throngs of people
Speaker 1: that were teaching them wanting to be with them, like
Speaker 1: totally crossing boundaries. I mean like or you know, back
Speaker 1: to like you know, like slipping them their number, giving
Speaker 1: them hotel rooms, like total boundary crossing.
Speaker 2: No, you think of like Elvis Presley, it's like everything
Speaker 2: like you know.
Speaker 1: Yes, but that was that was framed as like that
Speaker 1: person was so so hot like these that these people
Speaker 1: couldn't like, they couldn't stop themselves from you know, how
Speaker 1: hot these these performers were in So it was a
Speaker 1: mark of how effectively hot they were. Yeah, And this
Speaker 1: is a woman saying, I get it, this is my persona,
Speaker 1: this is who you see, and I don't want that.
Speaker 1: And she goes on to say she very much wants
Speaker 1: to be in the position that she's in. She loves
Speaker 1: doing what she's doing. She doesn't want the inappropriate behavior
Speaker 1: and the inappropriate boundary crossing that can occur when you're
Speaker 1: just a human being walking around the world.
Speaker 2: I also feel like, though, what's interesting about this though,
Speaker 2: is that in her initial story she kind of did
Speaker 2: say like that she you know, about the picture taking
Speaker 2: part of it, like she doesn't really feel like taking
Speaker 2: a picture. Okay, so let's pretend that it wasn't even
Speaker 2: the super fan predatory behavior. Let's just talk about if
Speaker 2: she did not feel like taking pictures with fans, like
Speaker 2: that's just not her jam, she doesn't feel comfortable with it.
Speaker 2: It's so interesting to me that it bothers people, like, honestly, why,
Speaker 2: why would that be something that you really care about?
Speaker 2: Like if I see someone like Britney Spears, who I love,
Speaker 2: and I have seen her in real life, I haven't
Speaker 2: asked her for a photo. If I also knew that
Speaker 2: she was someone that didn't want to take pictures, it
Speaker 2: wouldn't piss me off. I find it so interesting that
Speaker 2: we feel like once you get to a certain stage,
Speaker 2: some people feel like they're owed something That is so
Speaker 2: interesting to me, because even if she's like, you know what,
Speaker 2: I don't even want to take pictures. It's just not
Speaker 2: my thing. It doesn't make me feel comfortable. Who cares? Okay, great,
Speaker 2: Like I love your music, like I'm gonna go to
Speaker 2: your concerts. I'm excited, but it's not a slight to me.
Speaker 1: I have another perspective that I grew up with, which
Speaker 1: was being the child of an actress and a director
Speaker 1: and walking around the world with them and having people
Speaker 1: come up to talk to them or ask for a
Speaker 1: picture or whatever it was. And again I was a
Speaker 1: child and then a teenager, and I'm still today. It
Speaker 1: was so interesting because as a child it felt really
Speaker 1: disruptive and to me, again being a child, I was like,
Speaker 1: this is this is this is this is boundary crossing, right,
Speaker 1: Like this is I'm with my mom or my dad
Speaker 1: and someone is kind of coming in and inserting themselves
Speaker 1: and wanting to take this moment to say something. And
Speaker 1: by the way, there's different ways to do it. And
Speaker 1: sometimes people were really kind and really sweet and very
Speaker 1: tentative and like hey, you know, and they actually did contract.
Speaker 1: They were like, may I do you mind if I
Speaker 1: bought it? And then there were people who were super
Speaker 1: aggressive and didn't care at all what you wanted or thought,
Speaker 1: and they just kind of came in And that's and
Speaker 1: and that's worth mentioning because it's a it's a really
Speaker 1: big difference. And when I watched it happen as opposed
Speaker 1: to if it were to happen to me now. I
Speaker 1: remember observing that most of the time people thought it
Speaker 1: was like I didn't see so much like you owe
Speaker 1: me this picture or you owe me this conversation.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 1: This is my only shot, like I'm likely never going
Speaker 1: to see you in person again. I have this one
Speaker 1: moment and something takes over their body and they're like
Speaker 1: going for it. They're just like going for gold and
Speaker 1: something about the impermanence of it, and like the one
Speaker 1: last shot literally just turns them into someone that's like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go for it. And it doesn't it's
Speaker 1: just it's just like an extra perspective on it. It's
Speaker 1: not it doesn't make it worse or better. I think
Speaker 1: it's just something that I observed, and I think that
Speaker 1: I sort of have taken it with me into my
Speaker 1: life now because you know it because people do come
Speaker 1: up and you know, either to say something you know,
Speaker 1: super kind, or to ask for a picture, and it
Speaker 1: comes at different times, and sometimes it's super convenient and
Speaker 1: it's the easiest thing in the world to like, you know,
Speaker 1: like lean over and take a cute little selfie with
Speaker 1: someone or whatever. And sometimes I've been holding a baby. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't like put down to go take a picture
Speaker 1: with someone, but I don't want to be you know,
Speaker 1: in my mind. I again, I guess this is boundary setting.
Speaker 1: Clearly I'm not so advanced in this department, but I've
Speaker 1: found that hard to say, you know, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry I'm with my baby that I can't
Speaker 1: put down and come take a picture with you. And
Speaker 1: I'm not going to take a picture with my baby,
Speaker 1: so oh, I'm so sorry. The times I actually have,
Speaker 1: which have been very very few, I have been surprised
Speaker 1: by people's negative negative I'll have that too, and just
Speaker 1: like not understanding and being either hurt or upset, and
Speaker 1: and that always weighs on me because I because I'm
Speaker 1: a people pleaser and I want everyone to be happy.
Speaker 1: I want everyone to leave every experience happy. But that
Speaker 1: that that feeling and that people pleaser part of me
Speaker 1: is it really is. It's like the anti hero to
Speaker 1: boundary setting.
Speaker 2: It's interesting though, because I feel I'm like listening to
Speaker 2: what you're saying, and I under of course we've been
Speaker 2: together in these situations a million times, and I get
Speaker 2: that feeling of like this is my shot. I've felt
Speaker 2: that way, Like I've seen people that I'm like, oh
Speaker 2: my god, this if I do it, it's now, right
Speaker 2: now or never, And a lot of the times I
Speaker 2: just don't do it because I'm too shy and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I don't want to do it. I'm too scared.
Speaker 1: Always for me, always always okay.
Speaker 2: So I feel like, so I get that feeling, I
Speaker 2: get that impulse. I think that what we need to
Speaker 2: be aware of and remember is that you can have
Speaker 2: that impulse, but it's it's this is this is a
Speaker 2: this is consent, right, It's a two way street of
Speaker 2: that person also can get to say no in the moment,
Speaker 2: so you have to be okay with that. And someone
Speaker 2: like Chapel right now is setting her boundaries really early on,
Speaker 2: because by the way, we see people enter into the
Speaker 2: fade machine and completely burn out or worse because of
Speaker 2: all of that noise. And if she's able to set
Speaker 2: her boundary now and cut it out, maybe she has
Speaker 2: a much longer, healthier career producing all this incredible music
Speaker 2: for everybody. And she won't tap out early because she's
Speaker 2: like it's too much. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and by the way you see it play out,
Speaker 1: because you I mean, you see it play again. We
Speaker 1: already talked about our swifty, our swifty status, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean Taylor talks about it in multiple documentaries and
Speaker 1: I think in interviews I've seen where it's like, so, okay,
Speaker 1: you know, a boundary today is you know, don't touch
Speaker 1: me if I don't know you, or don't cross you know,
Speaker 1: an actual physical line to to you know, and get
Speaker 1: whatever I'm imagining her in her rockstar life right, but
Speaker 1: not only could because because if that's okay, then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, a fan breaking into your apartment yea,
Speaker 1: to like struggle with your cats is okay. So it's like,
Speaker 1: I do think it's a slippery slope, Like, you know,
Speaker 1: I think we actually should maybe look at how or
Speaker 1: ask some questions about how to get a little cozier
Speaker 1: with the idea that someone's saying I don't like that,
Speaker 1: like I don't want you to do that, and having
Speaker 1: that be okay as opposed to you know, having all
Speaker 1: this you know, backlash or negative whatever, Like why don't
Speaker 1: we just get a little curious, like, okay, great, I
Speaker 1: love chapel rone. I'm pretending I'm someone else. I mean,
Speaker 1: I love Chapel Roone, but let's pretend I'm someone else.
Speaker 1: I love her. I love her, I love her, I
Speaker 1: do anything to be near her. Great, well, okay, what's
Speaker 1: her What does she have to say? She doesn't want
Speaker 1: to be touched?
Speaker 2: Great?
Speaker 1: Well, if I love her so much, why would I
Speaker 1: try and do the thing she doesn't want me to do.
Speaker 2: It's very bizarre. It is really interesting.
Speaker 1: I had a lot of people come up to my
Speaker 1: parents when I was younger, and I just normalized that
Speaker 1: and bake that into my understanding of it. And so
Speaker 1: we all grow up and then I end up becoming
Speaker 1: an actress and then I'm you know, here, there and whatever.
Speaker 1: But then all of a sudden, I get to a
Speaker 1: place where people, you know, do recognize me or notice
Speaker 1: whatever and would come up and say hi or ask
Speaker 1: for a picture or whatever. I have also had that
Speaker 1: moment where someone comes up to me with their phone
Speaker 1: like to like, will you take a picture? And I've
Speaker 1: been like, yeah, totally, we do. Where do you want
Speaker 1: to take it? And they've then said can you take
Speaker 1: this picture of my mom?
Speaker 2: And I, oh, yeah, yeah, I've had that too. Matt's
Speaker 2: so many times where it's like I'm like, oh god,
Speaker 2: another one, okay, fine, and they're like could you take
Speaker 2: a picture of me and my husband? I'm like sure.
Speaker 2: Or I've had this too. I've had this too, where
Speaker 2: they're like I know you from somewhere and I'm like
Speaker 2: I know, I know, and it's like no, they literally
Speaker 2: know me because I go into Ralph so many times.
Speaker 1: Or they think you like dated their cousin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like we used to date. We had a
Speaker 2: horrible first state. I'm like, no, are you sure it's
Speaker 2: not Joe Wilson Grays now? I mean no, I'm like no,
Speaker 2: it's actually not that at all. Okay. So we had
Speaker 2: so many submissions. We're going to read one today on
Speaker 2: Short and Suite, but we've decided because we have so
Speaker 2: many amazing ones, voicemails, I mean so much. You guys
Speaker 2: really came through that. We are going to dedicate a
Speaker 2: long episode to this too. So we're going to get
Speaker 2: into it just with one person this time, and then
Speaker 2: we will come back. We're going to circle back to
Speaker 2: this because you guys have a lot of opinions and
Speaker 2: a lot of experience and stories that you're wanting to
Speaker 2: share and we want to share it with the rest
Speaker 2: of the call it grow. Okay, so Carrie wrote, I
Speaker 2: had to set a boundary on physical touch with my family.
Speaker 2: I'm just not a fan of hugs or physical touch.
Speaker 2: As I get overwhelmed, no one in my family listens
Speaker 2: or takes it seriously. I just get brushed off for
Speaker 2: not wanting to hug my family. It's not that I
Speaker 2: just hate the feeling and I'm not sure what to do.
Speaker 2: If you have advice, I gladly take it. But I'm
Speaker 2: struggling to try and enforce his boundary that I have
Speaker 2: set for years that no one will listen to with
Speaker 2: countless reminders, it just seems very disrespectful. Yeah, it's super disrespectful.
Speaker 1: I get this by the way, I have you my
Speaker 1: life like this, that this is how they feel.
Speaker 2: That they and well, here's the thing that I want
Speaker 2: to say. We grew up where like uncle Bobby is
Speaker 2: coming over and give him a hug and a kiss,
Speaker 2: and it's like it's a.
Speaker 1: Kid his voice for uncle Bobby.
Speaker 2: No, this is like I don't know whose voices is,
Speaker 2: but this this voice loves uncle Bobby, and this voice
Speaker 2: needs you to give him My middle juicy kiss on
Speaker 2: the cheek, and you're five and you're like, Uncle Bobby's
Speaker 2: kind of gross.
Speaker 1: He smells like listerine and he's.
Speaker 2: Not even my uncle. Like, I don't know why we're calling.
Speaker 1: We just took a hard right, I'm sorry. Carry back
Speaker 1: to you. Back to you, my performer in her is
Speaker 1: my point, Dad, say save the drama.
Speaker 2: Save it for the screen. Screen. My point is is
Speaker 2: that we grew up feeling like we had to give
Speaker 2: uncle Bobby a juicy kiss on the cheek, and it
Speaker 2: was expected of us, whether we felt comfortable or not.
Speaker 2: And we're now so many of us are raising our
Speaker 2: kids to be like, you know what, you don't feel
Speaker 2: like hugging whoever today, Uncle whoever, or grandpa whatever, you
Speaker 2: don't have to, It's okay. And so we're like weaving
Speaker 2: in that idea of if you don't feel like doing
Speaker 2: that with your body, no one has to tell you
Speaker 2: to do that with your body. Yes, And so I
Speaker 2: think this is hard. I think people struggle with this
Speaker 2: though when people have opinions about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think it's also sort of what in
Speaker 1: your family culture or in our culture or whatever culture
Speaker 1: you live in, like, what's an expected tradition or behavior,
Speaker 1: and then it's just sort of indoctrinated and we all
Speaker 1: grow up in it and some of us bump up
Speaker 1: against it and we're like, again, yeah, exactly what you said,
Speaker 1: Like I don't that doesn't feel comfortable to me, or
Speaker 1: I don't like that, And you know, ultimately what those are,
Speaker 1: those cultures and those customs, right, they're just kind of
Speaker 1: their habits and they are you know, you got you
Speaker 1: run into the habit of hugging someone or kissing someone
Speaker 1: or whatever that is. And I think that if I
Speaker 1: were in your situation, I think that it likely. I
Speaker 1: think I would feel more a chance at success. Speaking
Speaker 1: to my family members one on one, like if you
Speaker 1: just become the person who's like, oh gosh, she doesn't
Speaker 1: want to save the drama, right, save it for the screen,
Speaker 1: like you get cast as the person that's touched or whatever,
Speaker 1: then the group mentality sort of makes you other and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're like, oh, she doesn't want
Speaker 1: to be chou Yeah exactly. But I think that if
Speaker 1: you actually went to you know, one by one, and
Speaker 1: you'll know best who to go to first and said listen, okay,
Speaker 1: Aside from what I know we all what I get
Speaker 1: from you all. Every time I bring this up, I
Speaker 1: just this is what it is like, there's something about
Speaker 1: hugging that makes me uncomfortable. And if they're a really
Speaker 1: beloved family member, you could even go into the specifics
Speaker 1: if you want to, like I feel like my stomach hurts,
Speaker 1: or I get sweaty, or I don't know what to
Speaker 1: do with my right arm, or I don't whatever it's.
Speaker 1: I mean, the more specific, the better I think when
Speaker 1: you're trying to explain to someone how you feel. But
Speaker 1: I think that one on one, if you were able
Speaker 1: to say to them how you feel that if they
Speaker 1: love you, which they clearly obviously most likely do clearly
Speaker 1: obviously most likely I don't know. I mean, don't they
Speaker 1: love you? But I'm hoping that they do, and I
Speaker 1: will love you not to make it conditional, but because
Speaker 1: they love you, they will try harder to understand where
Speaker 1: you're coming from. So I think that would be my
Speaker 1: advice is find them one on one and say like,
Speaker 1: this is it that I know I get made fun
Speaker 1: of or I know you don't respect it, or I
Speaker 1: know you don't feel the same way, but this is
Speaker 1: really how I feel and I really would like for
Speaker 1: you to stop and see what happens then. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that would be my first pass
Speaker 1: at it.
Speaker 2: I like that. I definitely, I definitely agree with the
Speaker 2: one on one And honestly, if there's a point where
Speaker 2: they're like still ignoring it, I'm just gonna pretend that
Speaker 2: I have a cold for the rest of my life.
Speaker 2: I mean, like I'm sick, don't hug me, yeah, or you.
Speaker 1: Turn into the emoji with the two crossed arms in
Speaker 1: front of your You're like.
Speaker 2: No, physically like hand in front of me, like I
Speaker 2: don't want.
Speaker 1: To hug yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: You're very strange about this all. But I really respect
Speaker 2: because it's hard to the Sometimes the hardest people just
Speaker 2: have boundaries with is your family. And I really respect
Speaker 2: that you are doing it. Yeah man, yeah, please listen, please, family,
Speaker 2: please be fucking cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You don't have to hug Carrie.
Speaker 1: No, you don't have to hug Carrie.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The other thing that we do to kids is like, oh,
Speaker 1: look the look the adult in the eyes.
Speaker 2: Really, Oh I don't do that?
Speaker 1: Why well that was how I I mean again, the
Speaker 1: culture and custom that was thought of as like you
Speaker 1: were thought of as being a respectful younger if you
Speaker 1: when you met elders, you shook their hands and you
Speaker 1: look them in the eye. And now I'm like, no.
Speaker 2: No, no, that's done. Nope, all right, I really love
Speaker 2: this episode.
Speaker 1: Oh there's so much more to talk about it again, So.
Speaker 2: This is this is a teaser. This is really a
Speaker 2: teaser to the big episode because we're gonna dive straight
Speaker 2: straight into so many you guys gave us great stuff.
Speaker 2: We're going to dive into it.
Speaker 1: You know what. And I would add also that again
Speaker 1: I've already admitted that I didn't really understand or hear
Speaker 1: about what boundaries were for you know, I just it
Speaker 1: wasn't so long ago. But I've also come to understand
Speaker 1: that while it's so important to implement boundaries, there's actually
Speaker 1: a real negative consequence to boundary less relationships.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: If you don't have boundaries, if you don't do this work,
Speaker 1: if you don't stand up for yourself, if you don't
Speaker 1: tell people how you best feel in relationship, there's a
Speaker 1: very negative consequence. And I think that that's really another
Speaker 1: way of finding your way into it. If you don't
Speaker 1: completely understand or you think that this is silly or
Speaker 1: you're like, ugh, Carrie just doesn't want to be hugged. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know so, so I think it's worth everybody. I'm
Speaker 1: curious about it. So I'm loving learning more. Love it
Speaker 1: short and sweet, Short.
Speaker 2: And sweet, or we're gonna make it long. Sort of
Speaker 2: that sounded. So that's what she said. We are going
Speaker 2: to be back on this. Thank you guys for tuning
Speaker 2: into our short and sweet today and yeah, thank you.
Speaker 2: Thank We love discussing these subjects with you guys.
Speaker 1: Absolutely all right, let's call that the end of the episode.