Speaker 1: M. David, I'd just like to welcome you to the
Speaker 1: Player series. You know, I'm so pleased to have you
Speaker 1: on the show. You're being such a great gentleman. You've
Speaker 1: marketed the sport as well as anybody that's ever played
Speaker 1: the game. And it's so nice to be able to
Speaker 1: chat to you again today with something so many interesting
Speaker 1: things to speak about, because you really highly involved, you know,
Speaker 1: I remember, I remember you played the tour in South
Speaker 1: Africa and you also played in Europe if I'm not mistaken,
Speaker 1: and then decided to go into teaching, and you know,
Speaker 1: you've had so many good players over the years. And
Speaker 1: one of the things that are frustrating me right now
Speaker 1: is when I hear people talk about the modern days swing,
Speaker 1: you know, David, Honestly, if you look at a book
Speaker 1: by Percy Boomer, I don't know if you've ever read
Speaker 1: that bottom line, one of my favorite on learning goals. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. He talks about only of the things today.
Speaker 1: Henry Cotton wrote a book would best be a hundred
Speaker 1: years ago with the cross handed and all these different
Speaker 1: pudding strokes and things in there, the speed slots in
Speaker 1: the gay and the club there is I'm dying to
Speaker 1: hear of one new thing that I've never heard of
Speaker 1: in my life. And I can assure you there's nothing,
Speaker 1: there's no such thing as a modern day swing. What
Speaker 1: do you think, well, I I tend to agree with
Speaker 1: you there, Gary. I mean, look, you've got obviously you've
Speaker 1: got modern athletes. Now athletes have improved. I mean you
Speaker 1: started this whole trend, and that the fitness aspect and
Speaker 1: the change in equipment. I think the the equipment now
Speaker 1: matches the player a lot better. Where back in your
Speaker 1: day and even my day, it was a bit of
Speaker 1: a trial and area to find the right driver, find
Speaker 1: the right shaft. Now obviously you can you can pinpoint
Speaker 1: what suits you best. And even golf balls. I mean
Speaker 1: they're finding golf balls some spin more some spin there.
Speaker 1: So the athletes of advantage obviously, But as far as
Speaker 1: technique is concerned, I mean, we've seen it all before.
Speaker 1: I mean it's like, hey, maybe we're not wearing tweet
Speaker 1: jackets and playing with hickory shafts, but the fact is,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, they're still trying to figure out
Speaker 1: how to get that down ball in the hole and
Speaker 1: fewer shots as possible, you know, and so yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, what do they call the modern swing? I mean,
Speaker 1: the modern swing now is something which I know is
Speaker 1: really uh, you know, makes you angry as the old
Speaker 1: sort of you know, Hey, this position here, which you
Speaker 1: know we've seen players in the past, Trevino, Palmer and
Speaker 1: et cetera, and you know, it's it's a way to play.
Speaker 1: But if there's any longevity to the game, I mean,
Speaker 1: if you look at the greats, I mean, they never
Speaker 1: had that position. It was almost as if they had
Speaker 1: this neutral position, which Hogan was a big advocate of.
Speaker 1: Exactly if you look at longevity, and of course today
Speaker 1: everybody's good a different opinion. I wanted to have longevity
Speaker 1: and I still want longevity at eighty five. And if
Speaker 1: you look at Palmer, he had a very very short career.
Speaker 1: Nick Ut one majors for twenty five years. I won
Speaker 1: for twenty, Palmer one for six. Now you can play
Speaker 1: golf that way? You can't play, yes, but I don't know.
Speaker 1: You see, if your body is not strong enough, if
Speaker 1: your body is not strong enough, if you start to
Speaker 1: hit those hooks and you can't get the club back,
Speaker 1: that your backs wing get shorter and shorter. If you
Speaker 1: look at John Ram, this highly talented man. I mean,
Speaker 1: this guy could really play his back swing honestly, goodness
Speaker 1: is so short. And what's going to happen in ten
Speaker 1: years time. It's going to get shorter and shorter. So
Speaker 1: you've got to think of the length of the back swing.
Speaker 1: And I was very interested to see one of the commentators,
Speaker 1: uh on the during the Baster said, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: they don't have these long flowing swings anymore. You know,
Speaker 1: I've never heard such nonsense in my life. The greatest
Speaker 1: players that ever lived, the greatest swing ever that ever
Speaker 1: man ever, ever ever had by Miles Ben Hogan. He
Speaker 1: had a long back split. Sam Sneed had a long backsweek.
Speaker 1: Jack Nicholas had a long backswek Tiger Woods had a
Speaker 1: long back speak every superstar now to me, I have
Speaker 1: my own version of a superstar. Everybody uses the words
Speaker 1: superstar too lightly. I think you've got to win six majors.
Speaker 1: I've never seen a superstar that didn't ever the had
Speaker 1: a short back sleep. And you know, I was blessed
Speaker 1: to be around Hogan, and of course he'd never say much,
Speaker 1: but he said some things to me that really enabled
Speaker 1: me to win the eighteen major championships, and so you
Speaker 1: know you're gonna be very careful what you say, the
Speaker 1: same as they criticize Deshambro. You know, oh, here comes
Speaker 1: the cook, here comes the scientist. Well, the shoes on
Speaker 1: the other foot, actually Deschambro, and I'd be anxious to
Speaker 1: hear what you've got to say. I think he has
Speaker 1: an outstanding swing. Now he does slash it an occasionally,
Speaker 1: but that's what makes him exciting. But you and I
Speaker 1: know it's not long driving the twins tournaments. It's an asset,
Speaker 1: but it's always the patting and the mind. What do
Speaker 1: you think, right right? Right? Well, yeah, Branson Deshambo, he
Speaker 1: is he's a a different type of individual. Let's face it,
Speaker 1: he's got a he's got an inquisitive mind. He's very
Speaker 1: scientific in his approach, and I mean he's not stupid.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, he realizes, like the US Open, Hey,
Speaker 1: if I hit it fifty yards further close to bit
Speaker 1: the green and he's other guys and coming out of
Speaker 1: this rough, I've got a much better chance than somebody
Speaker 1: hitting a seven nine. I'm hitting herring a wedge. So
Speaker 1: you know it's interesting. I mean, obviously time will tell
Speaker 1: hopefully his body can stand up to the I mean,
Speaker 1: he certainly puts a lot of stress on his body.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, even the on the eve of
Speaker 1: the Master's Gary, he was out there for an hour
Speaker 1: pounding drivers and whether certainly he's got to work out
Speaker 1: in order to facilitate that. But it's a I mean
Speaker 1: he's got a he's got a very simple swing, very simple.
Speaker 1: I mean it's sort of a you know, you you
Speaker 1: hear about more Norman, right, I mean I watched him
Speaker 1: hit balls. I'm sure you saw him over the years.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was a great player in Canada, but
Speaker 1: he was certainly one of the straightest. It isn't he
Speaker 1: had what they call a one playing swing, and that's
Speaker 1: what the shambo works on. But he's I mean, he's
Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting and I think it's good for
Speaker 1: the game. You've got people like that talking about something,
Speaker 1: people like this. I mean, in your day, I mean,
Speaker 1: you were you, you were sort of a one off.
Speaker 1: The factor is working out what the hecks out? Are
Speaker 1: you crazy? And it's gonna look, you're gonna lose your field,
Speaker 1: You're going to do this, You're gonna do that, and
Speaker 1: and so you just proved that, and I think, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe he's just proving things as well. And the fact
Speaker 1: is that, look, if you get bigger, you get stronger,
Speaker 1: and you have mobility, you're going to hit the ball
Speaker 1: a long way. And as as you say, look it's
Speaker 1: about Paddy hitting your iron shots close to the whole.
Speaker 1: To Golf is a multi faceted game, let's face and
Speaker 1: it's not just one aspect. I mean, if you look
Speaker 1: at all the greats, including yourself, I mean, alright, you're
Speaker 1: a great bucker player, You're a great chipper, you're a
Speaker 1: great padder. You know, you're a great fairware would player.
Speaker 1: So I mean you've got to have all these elements going.
Speaker 1: I think that's the difficulty with this game. It's not
Speaker 1: just like baseball where hey smash it out of the
Speaker 1: park and how you're going to be a great player
Speaker 1: if you do that regularly engulf I mean, there's how
Speaker 1: many long drive guys have actually been successful. So so
Speaker 1: we're seeing maybe a change in trends, and I think
Speaker 1: it's interesting. I mean, we talked about the involvement of
Speaker 1: the game, and I mean that is obviously power is
Speaker 1: going to be I mean, and we'll maybe we'll talk
Speaker 1: about that how they reign in some of that power
Speaker 1: because some of these golf courses are being made a
Speaker 1: little bit obsolete in many in many instances, which is
Speaker 1: which is a shame that you know, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: I guess it's called progress, right, Garret, Well, you know,
Speaker 1: here's an interesting thing that the leaders of the game
Speaker 1: have got to wake up and realize. And I admire
Speaker 1: the leaders of the game, but they've got to have
Speaker 1: more vision where the shambro ends up. Now you're gonna
Speaker 1: have people come out and carry the ball over that
Speaker 1: you've never seen a big play like Lebron James or
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's come and play golfing. They're coming because these
Speaker 1: young people at university now they are learning that there's
Speaker 1: longevity and golf and you can make a lot of
Speaker 1: money for a long time. Where's other sports? And then
Speaker 1: if l players there for three years and he leaves,
Speaker 1: and man, he's been hit in the head and his
Speaker 1: shoulders and he's an agony for the rest of his life.
Speaker 1: So and everybody wants to have a support to participate
Speaker 1: in for as long as possible. One of the great
Speaker 1: joys I wake up every day again to the gym.
Speaker 1: Can I beat my age by eighteen shots? Can I
Speaker 1: stretch and get my swing longer? You know, there's always
Speaker 1: a challenge until the day you die. That's if you
Speaker 1: love the game, which I just love the game. I
Speaker 1: love playing with with business people or anybody. And I
Speaker 1: love talking to young people. And people say to me,
Speaker 1: these young kids, what do I do to become a champion?
Speaker 1: I said, it's a thing called it. And I'm just
Speaker 1: going to digress for a minute. I think the player
Speaker 1: on the tour at the moment who has really got
Speaker 1: it is Jordan's speech. Now, Jordan's speech. He is as
Speaker 1: good a player I think from sixty yards that the
Speaker 1: world has ever seen. I mean that's a big statement.
Speaker 1: But he's not in the top thirty players from t
Speaker 1: to green. And but he's got it. He knows how
Speaker 1: to compete, he knows how to never give up. He
Speaker 1: knows how to play the right shot at the right time.
Speaker 1: It doesn't always come off. But because he has a
Speaker 1: lot of faults and he's swing and if he ever
Speaker 1: gets the right, goodness me will he be number one
Speaker 1: in the world without a question. And he's a wonderful
Speaker 1: young man. He's a real all American guy, and I
Speaker 1: just love him so. But Winston Churchill said, the height
Speaker 1: that great men reached and kept we're not attained by
Speaker 1: sudden flight. But while his opponents were sleeping, he was
Speaker 1: toiling upward in the night. And that's what I did.
Speaker 1: I went to the gym at twelve o'clock when I
Speaker 1: came back from a dinner, and I asked the hotel manager,
Speaker 1: please let me have the key for the gym. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: and I said please. Now, I promise you I'll keep
Speaker 1: it tidy. Now, this is what has been Shambro is doing.
Speaker 1: And I just love his work ethic and don't forget
Speaker 1: when he was the tournament at Arnold Partner's Course, he
Speaker 1: won it not because of his long driving. He won
Speaker 1: it because of his putting. The way the commentators were
Speaker 1: talking about, you would have thought, and I said to
Speaker 1: the one commentator, how far did he drive westward? By
Speaker 1: oh ninety yards? Well, the way you guys were talking,
Speaker 1: you'd think he'd have a twenty shot lead coming to
Speaker 1: the last hole. But with his long hitting, it all
Speaker 1: came down to Deschambro holding a lot of puts. And
Speaker 1: this is what always wins the tournament. Tiger Woods was
Speaker 1: not a good driver of the ball accurate wife. Neither
Speaker 1: was for Michauls, but they were one and two in
Speaker 1: the world. We know you can play a bad round
Speaker 1: of golf and if you put well, you can break seventy,
Speaker 1: but you cannot break seventy if you're putting badly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember years ago you saying, Gary, there's going to
Speaker 1: be people are gonna be coming out. They're gonna be
Speaker 1: hitting the ball four hundred yards. This is a twenty
Speaker 1: years ago. I remember chatting to you and no, there's
Speaker 1: no question. Look, athletes are better. I mean training is better.
Speaker 1: Although having said that, I think some of the training
Speaker 1: I mean you, I'd like to hear your opinion on this,
Speaker 1: because if you look at Tiger, I think to some
Speaker 1: extent he's trained the wrong way. I mean I think
Speaker 1: a lot of his injuries could be actually maybe based
Speaker 1: on how he was working out, I mean running with
Speaker 1: running marathons with weight belts on and so on and
Speaker 1: so forth. And so I always remember John Daily telling me, Gay,
Speaker 1: this is a complete this is a complete the opposite
Speaker 1: of the way you think. I said, John, you ever
Speaker 1: work out? He says, Now he says. My theory is
Speaker 1: he said you can you can pull a muscle, but
Speaker 1: you can't pull fat. So that's a different a different approach.
Speaker 1: I guess, well, I want to say this, John Daily,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, he uh he was second to Tiger
Speaker 1: on the tour with ability. This man had such ability.
Speaker 1: But he certainly had unbelievable ability, A great touch, a
Speaker 1: great touch. You know. So what are your feelings on
Speaker 1: Rory McElroy because obviously immense talent that just doesn't seem
Speaker 1: to fulfilled it. I mean, if you you would say
Speaker 1: probably at this stage of the games, but I think
Speaker 1: you've got one four majors um, But I mean you'd
Speaker 1: say he probably underachieved in many respects. Yes, Well said,
Speaker 1: He's definitely underachieved because this man has the best golf
Speaker 1: swing on the tour. And uh, I know he's obsessed
Speaker 1: with hitting the ball a long way, but that's not
Speaker 1: a bad fault. He's a great exerciser. I just love
Speaker 1: the guy. He's a He exercises and to win four
Speaker 1: majors as a starter as phenomenal. But you know, I'm
Speaker 1: expecting him to go on I mean every year. I
Speaker 1: just think he's going to win the Masters because the
Speaker 1: course has made for him. There's never been a golf
Speaker 1: course that has made more for him than that golf course.
Speaker 1: What is wrong with him? I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: profess to know, but I do know one thing. It's
Speaker 1: not in the swing. And if he's looking for it
Speaker 1: in the swing, and I see he had Pete Cowan yet, fine,
Speaker 1: but I don't think you should be having lessons from
Speaker 1: a O the week before the Masters. I don't think
Speaker 1: you should be doing that. But everybody's got their own opinion.
Speaker 1: I think, well, when I wanted to win the Grand Slam,
Speaker 1: and when I went to I used to go into
Speaker 1: a reverie. I used to do meditating, I used to
Speaker 1: do positive thinking. I mean, I don't want to go
Speaker 1: into the whole thing, but I trained myself mentally to
Speaker 1: win the tournament. When I wanted to beat Jack Nicholas
Speaker 1: to win the Grand Slam, I went to the scoreboard
Speaker 1: in the morning at six thirty and I sat in
Speaker 1: front of the scoreboard on a tight ch position and
Speaker 1: I visualized Gary Player, my name being on that scoreboard,
Speaker 1: and I did so many things that were very different
Speaker 1: to ethletes that do today. Now there's no question. The
Speaker 1: reason that Rory McElroy it's nothing to do these swing
Speaker 1: at all. The swing is not the thing, it's the mind.
Speaker 1: He's got to get that right when he plays in
Speaker 1: that tournament. And I don't know what he thinks about.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's nervous. You don't know what's
Speaker 1: inside of a man, David. But my goodness me, if
Speaker 1: ever I've seen a man with talent, it's Rory mcelroyin
Speaker 1: We're all want to see him when the Grand slamb
Speaker 1: same as we want to see Jordan's speeds when the
Speaker 1: Grand Slam. So I wouldn't speed gets his string right,
Speaker 1: he will win the Grand Slam, there's no question. Because
Speaker 1: this guy is he's got it. Really, how many players
Speaker 1: can I see on the tour that have got it?
Speaker 1: My my idea of it. Not many wonderful strikers in
Speaker 1: the ball, wonderful scorers. I don't know how consistent they
Speaker 1: are at playing. That's another thing that's important. But I
Speaker 1: don't know. Does money have an effect? You know they're
Speaker 1: making hundreds of millions. To me, money wasn't the thing.
Speaker 1: If somebody I didn't worry, I didn't play golf for
Speaker 1: money because there wasn't much money. I played because I
Speaker 1: wanted to be the best and said it. Arnold and
Speaker 1: said it, Jack and said it, Travina and said it,
Speaker 1: watch it and said it home. I wouldn't say that sneat.
Speaker 1: He loved money, man money, that men would travel from
Speaker 1: here to Australia for five grand. How do you see that?
Speaker 1: The great champions of the part of your era and
Speaker 1: even subsequent to that, I mean, how do you see
Speaker 1: them versus the modern day player should be say do
Speaker 1: you do you see there's the I mean, do you
Speaker 1: see there's more love in the game those players back
Speaker 1: then you talked about the money, and obviously these players
Speaker 1: making so much money now flying around in private jets
Speaker 1: and everything else, does that somehow dampen the their ability
Speaker 1: to sort of maybe become great at winning a bunch
Speaker 1: of majors? Brandon Grace said to me at Cape Town,
Speaker 1: who I love by the way, we were in at
Speaker 1: fan Courtney said, you know when you and Jack and
Speaker 1: Arnold and Tom Watson when Torments said were only about
Speaker 1: thirty players you had to beat. Today, we've gotta beat
Speaker 1: at least eight players. I said, you're right, you've gotta
Speaker 1: beat ad players. But I came down during COVID in
Speaker 1: Philadelphia at my daughter's house, and I sat down and
Speaker 1: I got all the players that played in our time.
Speaker 1: There were fifty nine major champions playing out tour at
Speaker 1: that time. Think about it, fifty nine. There's certainly not
Speaker 1: fifty nine now. So people underestimate players of the past
Speaker 1: and what they do at present. When I played the tour,
Speaker 1: I made the same mistake as Brandon, and I thought, oh, well,
Speaker 1: this is much tougher to win golf tourments today than
Speaker 1: when Hogan played. Oh you just looked who played when
Speaker 1: Hogan was there. Just sit down and do your homework
Speaker 1: and see the players that were there. There were players
Speaker 1: that golfers on the store have never even heard of.
Speaker 1: And you think that Bobby Jones, the scores he did
Speaker 1: with a ball that went eighty yards less, a walking stick,
Speaker 1: a face on the club and looked like a frying pan.
Speaker 1: I mean, in the conditions that he played in the
Speaker 1: scores he did unbelievable. We must have respect for present
Speaker 1: and for past. The game. Interesting, know what you think
Speaker 1: You're gonna go to St. Andrews for the Open soon
Speaker 1: and on a calm day, the right conditions, Bryson deshambo
Speaker 1: is going to drive nine greens. Now, what do you feel?
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm in favor of slowing the ball down.
Speaker 1: Otherwise we can't build more golf courses. A lot of
Speaker 1: people who are city slickers and don't understand the situation
Speaker 1: of water. That's the biggest issue. We're gonna run out
Speaker 1: of water in the world by the five will be
Speaker 1: short of twenty five percent of water. Now, can you
Speaker 1: go and build longer golf courses? No, it's too expensive.
Speaker 1: Machinery is a fortune, I mean the fertilization, but the
Speaker 1: water is the issue. So we have no choice but
Speaker 1: to slow the ball down. Um. I know Tom Watson
Speaker 1: said the other day, and I respect his opinion. He
Speaker 1: he doesn't think they should slow the ball down. Arnold
Speaker 1: and Jack and a host of others. I think Trevino
Speaker 1: believes that. I think you believe in it. If you don't,
Speaker 1: it's going to become a joke on how golf has played.
Speaker 1: And I mean, we don't want to see that because
Speaker 1: the average man cannot relate to it. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: I think it boils down. Gary. Look, I mean I
Speaker 1: I agree with you I mean something has to be
Speaker 1: done because otherwise, I say, you know, if every golf
Speaker 1: course is going to be a pitch and pat tack course,
Speaker 1: and so it's I mean, how when you think about
Speaker 1: preparing a golf course, they would say, we will make
Speaker 1: the course is fast and narrow, the fairways thick in
Speaker 1: the rough. But that's for one week a year. What
Speaker 1: are the poor members going to do the rest of
Speaker 1: the time. So I think we when when you look
Speaker 1: at legislation, I've always felt that there should be I
Speaker 1: wouldn't say two sets of rules, but I think that
Speaker 1: the tour players, maybe the U. S g a A
Speaker 1: at that elite level, need to govern themselves. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think the average golfer who wants to go up
Speaker 1: there and have some fun and if he hits the
Speaker 1: twenty yards longer with a particular driver or a particular ball,
Speaker 1: hey have had it because they're just gonna have more enjoyment.
Speaker 1: But at the tour player level, I mean there has
Speaker 1: me Take baseball for instance, I mean, look at Major
Speaker 1: League Baseball. They don't use aluminium bats that you know
Speaker 1: they used, wouldn't they use wooden bats? Okay, So so
Speaker 1: that there can be some changes, and maybe the tour
Speaker 1: has to start to regulate itself and figure out Okay,
Speaker 1: if well, what if we want to make this a
Speaker 1: game for the future, because otherwise you're gonna you're gonna
Speaker 1: eliminate players. I mean, you think of players now like
Speaker 1: a Corey pavement, how would they compete today? It's it
Speaker 1: would be impossible. I mean, here's a player that worked
Speaker 1: the ball and did this and did that with the
Speaker 1: golf ball. But so you're seeing I mean, yes, you
Speaker 1: know it's an athletic sport, but the fact is you
Speaker 1: want to bring all types of players. Say, it's more
Speaker 1: than just long hitting, as you say, being able to
Speaker 1: control the ball, being able to control your distances, control
Speaker 1: the shape of the shot that trajector, et cetera. So
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just felt that there may be there,
Speaker 1: maybe should be make what they call it bifurcation. I
Speaker 1: think that it's a fancy word that they used where
Speaker 1: But hey, there's some slightly different rules for the tour,
Speaker 1: you know, So I don't know if that's a if
Speaker 1: that's an answer or not. I mean, and everybody wants
Speaker 1: to play what the tour players are playing. Let's face it,
Speaker 1: Gary they're not playing the same clubs or using the
Speaker 1: same ball tour plays are using now. I spoke to
Speaker 1: Peter Dawson of the R and a who I got
Speaker 1: on extremely well whip it here and I completely disagreed
Speaker 1: with each other. I said, there should be equipment for
Speaker 1: pros and and the amateurs should be allowed to use
Speaker 1: what they like, because we need more people to play golf.
Speaker 1: You don't want to cut the ball back for the amateurs.
Speaker 1: You don't want to stop the long pattern for amateurs.
Speaker 1: A man's got the yips so badly. A friend of
Speaker 1: mine was three putting from two ft, so he gave
Speaker 1: up the game and they took the long patter away.
Speaker 1: Let him enjoy it. I mean what they hanged now.
Speaker 1: I don't believe in the long padder for professional golf.
Speaker 1: I agree with you it should be maybe the pro
Speaker 1: professional golfers should run their goss start golf, and the
Speaker 1: amateurs should run their side the golf. It's not a
Speaker 1: case of disrespect. It's a case that professionals know a
Speaker 1: lot more than amateurs about the game. And it's like teachers.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, uh, if you're going to go
Speaker 1: to a man for a lesson. You better go to
Speaker 1: the right person. You've to go to the person you know.
Speaker 1: If I was a young pro today, I'm coming to
Speaker 1: you for a liston because you played. You played, You
Speaker 1: just didn't read about something and come into the game.
Speaker 1: And now I profess to be a great teacher. Pete
Speaker 1: cow And I like his idea because he played. You've
Speaker 1: got to have been in the arena to understand the game. Now, teachers,
Speaker 1: I think their teachers for for the club pros who
Speaker 1: are good for their members. They can teach a young
Speaker 1: boys playing the game. But when it comes to teaching champions, well,
Speaker 1: I mean I just see David. I just look at
Speaker 1: the golfers, think about it, Trevor im a Month, Schwartzaw,
Speaker 1: Mike Weir, Ian Maker Finch. I can go to Martin Kaimba,
Speaker 1: I can go down the line, David who won majors,
Speaker 1: who couldn't play anymore? So why did they go and change?
Speaker 1: Now you go to somebody who's never been in the
Speaker 1: arena and you're gonna listen to him. You've got to
Speaker 1: go in that case, if you want to know something
Speaker 1: about business, I'm not going to the U an average person.
Speaker 1: I'm going to a champion who knows about business. So
Speaker 1: everybody for their lost. I'm not criticizing teachers at all.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying it's all categorized. You've gotta if you
Speaker 1: want ever lesson you go to and depending on your play.
Speaker 1: But man, if I was a young guy and I
Speaker 1: want to know something about the game, I'm going to
Speaker 1: leave Travino. He was as sharp as attack this man
Speaker 1: and know when to play, what shot, how to think? David,
Speaker 1: there's a special there's a lifetime on how to play golf.
Speaker 1: A lot of players can hit the ball magnificence, but
Speaker 1: they don't know how to play, what shot, how to think.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's it's so it's a science and people
Speaker 1: don't realize it. And you cannot know that science unless
Speaker 1: you have been in the arena yourself. How can a
Speaker 1: man teach you how to do certain things when he's
Speaker 1: never been on the arena, right, And you want to
Speaker 1: go to teachers, not young guys on the block. You
Speaker 1: want to go to people that have been around a
Speaker 1: long time. You've been around a long time, and when
Speaker 1: you started, like me, when I started, I did things
Speaker 1: wrong in this in the theory of the game. When
Speaker 1: you started, you were teaching certain things that you wouldn't teach.
Speaker 1: The day changes the price of survival, right right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: It's interesting how you talk about people like Lee Trevino obviously,
Speaker 1: I mean shot makers extraordinaire. I mean, he actually had
Speaker 1: quite an influence on young Tony Finale. Tony Finale obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the one of the better ball
Speaker 1: strikers out there, one of the one of the longest
Speaker 1: hitters out there. I've known him a long time. He
Speaker 1: actually grew up in a very poor family, and I
Speaker 1: mean he's done it exceedingly well. I mean he hasn't
Speaker 1: quite broken through anyone one tourn but if you look
Speaker 1: at you look at it, he's had like forty top
Speaker 1: tens in the last three years, so I mean something
Speaker 1: ridiculous different number. But actually at LEA spent quite a
Speaker 1: bit of time with Tony talking about shot making and stuff,
Speaker 1: which I think a lot of the young players and
Speaker 1: speaking speaking of people like yourselves and something they I
Speaker 1: think they'd benefit tremendously because it was a different game
Speaker 1: back then. But there is still that factor. I think
Speaker 1: in today's game, you know where a craftsman can still
Speaker 1: be successful. I mean as long as you're long enough. Okay,
Speaker 1: somebody like at Jordan's speed. As you know, he's not
Speaker 1: the most straightest driver in the world, but you know
Speaker 1: when he gets it within a certain distance, my goodness.
Speaker 1: I mean, he is the best in the world. And
Speaker 1: there's there's other players. There are a few other players
Speaker 1: like that. So I think it's a I think it's
Speaker 1: the case of learning as much as you can. I
Speaker 1: mean you did. I mean you picked everybody's minds and
Speaker 1: you created your own, yes, I own approach. But you
Speaker 1: took all that information and you figured out how it
Speaker 1: would work for you, right, which I think is what
Speaker 1: the grapes really do. David, you just made such sense.
Speaker 1: If Ben Hogan had said to me, Gary, I see
Speaker 1: something in your swing, I would have got it will
Speaker 1: make you play better. I would have got on a
Speaker 1: plane from South Africa and come here for the lesson
Speaker 1: and going back to Southern because he knew here. He
Speaker 1: knew what he was talking about. And that is so important,
Speaker 1: so important to have the knowledge, the knowledge and golf
Speaker 1: is so important of a young guy. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: watching a young girl up in Augusta there swinging the club,
Speaker 1: and I said to what do you want to do?
Speaker 1: She's I want to be a pro. One day. I said, okay,
Speaker 1: what are you thinking about when you hit the ball.
Speaker 1: She says, oh, well, here's the club. I just think
Speaker 1: about the club coming back square to the ball, and
Speaker 1: I visualized the target and David, six out of ten
Speaker 1: young people tell me this. I said, Oh, you've got
Speaker 1: a chip in the ball. Have you you tell the
Speaker 1: chip go to go to the target? And it goes?
Speaker 1: I said, can't you understand it's a movement in the
Speaker 1: swing that makes the ball go straight. You can't just
Speaker 1: visualize you bring the club back square and there's the target.
Speaker 1: You visualize the ball going to the target. That ball
Speaker 1: doesn't know you. It will not go to the target
Speaker 1: unless you apply the correct action, right right right when
Speaker 1: I was the young man, you so right, I asked everybody.
Speaker 1: And I've got to tell your lovely story. I played
Speaker 1: with Stam Sneed at Greenbrier as a young man. I
Speaker 1: just got over here. It was actually one of my
Speaker 1: I think the second golf tournament I played in America.
Speaker 1: And I played thirty six holes with him at the
Speaker 1: end and we tired, and on his home course and
Speaker 1: we went seven holes in the playoff and he beat me.
Speaker 1: And I turned and I said, Mr. Sneed, is there
Speaker 1: anything you can see in my swing that can help me?
Speaker 1: He says, I ain't seen your swing yet, son. Whereas
Speaker 1: Jack Nicholas, who's the greatest gentleman I've ever played with,
Speaker 1: you asked him anything, he'd try and help you. I
Speaker 1: played him in the World Match, played in London twice,
Speaker 1: thirty six holes and along with golf course in October
Speaker 1: all the newspapers unnem st said he's gonna beat me.
Speaker 1: I beat him six and four, five and four. The
Speaker 1: next year and I was on a tea and Jack said,
Speaker 1: why is your right hand extremely over to the left?
Speaker 1: Get it back to where it was now. Not many
Speaker 1: guys do that. Jack Nicholas is the gentleman of gentlemen
Speaker 1: to play golf. He wants to beat you when you're
Speaker 1: playing well. And uh so that's been a very exciting
Speaker 1: thing and a very interesting thing for me that the
Speaker 1: young people today they'd rather take advice from somebody who's
Speaker 1: never been able to play at all than somebody who've
Speaker 1: been champions. And that's fine with me, and it's fine
Speaker 1: with me and fine with Jack. We don't mind but
Speaker 1: you can teach. People can learn so much from experience.
Speaker 1: But we we have a different brand of thinking now,
Speaker 1: and it's a different time to play. There's big money,
Speaker 1: it's more business. It's not like we were. We'd get
Speaker 1: in a car and we'd drive a thousand miles together
Speaker 1: and we'd stop and we're go and play another golf
Speaker 1: course on the way. And we'd stay at people's houses
Speaker 1: almost every weekend. We did things that don't exist now.
Speaker 1: But things go according to the time. You can ever
Speaker 1: say what was right or what was wrong. But I
Speaker 1: know one thing. I enjoyed the player the tour much
Speaker 1: more than I would have enjoyed it today. But I
Speaker 1: would have liked to have had the opportunity to keep
Speaker 1: played for the money. You know that that I think
Speaker 1: tenth place and Augusta this year, if I'm not mistaken now,
Speaker 1: I think got three hundred thousand dollars. Nobody ever made
Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars for being the leading money winner ever.
Speaker 1: Arnold Palmer was the first man too with a hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in a year. If that was not the issue,
Speaker 1: we had a great time. We played with in two
Speaker 1: pro ams. We love to be with people that it's
Speaker 1: not like that anymore. It's a completely different game, and
Speaker 1: so be it. Yeah, you're right. I mean players do
Speaker 1: have shorter careers these days. I mean I think in
Speaker 1: terms maybe maybe it is the money factor. I mean
Speaker 1: people say, well, Deshambo, let's see how he isn't ten
Speaker 1: years time. Well he's probably one of a billion dollars
Speaker 1: by that time, and really just gonna he doesn't, wouldn't
Speaker 1: you know, not worried about it. But I mean it's
Speaker 1: it is interesting, is to say the longevity of the game.
Speaker 1: Even if you look at some players, even like you know,
Speaker 1: you would call him a journeyman player, but somebody like
Speaker 1: a Steve Stricker who's played well in the thirties and
Speaker 1: his forties fifties. So there is something about the fact
Speaker 1: that probably players who don't get that many injuries probably
Speaker 1: last longer as well. Maybe a swing that's easier on
Speaker 1: the body who knows that. I want to talk about
Speaker 1: one thing, Garrett. I mean, I think one of the
Speaker 1: you know, obviously your your mental toughness that really helped
Speaker 1: you in match play situations. I mean, I would love
Speaker 1: to see you played in a President's Cup or you know,
Speaker 1: obviously the Writer Cup, but the you're probably one of
Speaker 1: your greatest matches, if you will, was against Tony Lehma
Speaker 1: right when you won the World Match Player, when you
Speaker 1: were seven down with sev to play right, and everybody'd
Speaker 1: written you off, including him. I think he'd said, don't worry,
Speaker 1: don't worry, Gary, You've been invited back next year. Regardless.
Speaker 1: You know that's that's exactly what happened. We're walking down
Speaker 1: and I'm sent him down. He says, never mind, Gary,
Speaker 1: you'll be invited back next year. You are the US
Speaker 1: Open champion and you've won this championship. But I think
Speaker 1: to myself, mad over until the fair lady says I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get you, my man. And he goes in and
Speaker 1: the press are all saying, well, you gotta beat the
Speaker 1: present World Match Played champion. And I didn't have anything
Speaker 1: to eat. I went straight to the practice team and
Speaker 1: I was hooking in the ball and I was trying
Speaker 1: to work out while it's hooking. And I practiced, and
Speaker 1: I got on the first tea in the afternoon and
Speaker 1: what did I do? Hooked at and lost another hole.
Speaker 1: So but you see, you've got to understand that's why
Speaker 1: I was trying to tell people watching the Masters this year,
Speaker 1: they will said, oh, well, Dick, he's got it sewn up.
Speaker 1: I said, what, you can have a nine shot leader Augusta.
Speaker 1: I'm made Arnold parmerent I played one year in Augusta
Speaker 1: playing the third hole. He was nine shots ahead of me.
Speaker 1: We stood on the eleventh t. I was two shots
Speaker 1: ahead of him. Excuse me the twelve t. I mean,
Speaker 1: people don't understand that. When when Decembro said this is
Speaker 1: a past sixty seven for me, I thought, whoa boy,
Speaker 1: that's a make. So that, of course, there's there's certain
Speaker 1: things about that course you can never explain. It's a
Speaker 1: hidden it's a hidden monster. Have everything go right and
Speaker 1: you can shoot as many of us are shot sixty fours,
Speaker 1: and but my goodness, you can lose. And you know,
Speaker 1: look at him, Dick at the end. He doesn't have
Speaker 1: to make a six at number fifteen because now he's
Speaker 1: got a chip back with the water on the other side,
Speaker 1: and then he makes bogey at the next He doesn't
Speaker 1: have to hit two drives on the last two holes
Speaker 1: like that. Either. I tell you something. You may not
Speaker 1: go to sleep thinking you've got it, even if you're
Speaker 1: six or seven. As we saw with Greg Norman and
Speaker 1: and other players, Art Wall won the tournament six behind.
Speaker 1: I wanted seven boon. I went three tourments in our row,
Speaker 1: seven behind in a row. So people, you've gotta knowledge.
Speaker 1: I come back to knowledge. Education in life is the light.
Speaker 1: It's so important. But what you've gotta do. You gotta
Speaker 1: play golf and you've got to sit there, and you've
Speaker 1: gotta say. I love adversity, do you know? I used
Speaker 1: to pray for adversity when I was playing us and
Speaker 1: I'm a great believe in prayer. It helps me to
Speaker 1: run my life, good things and bad things. And I
Speaker 1: used to say, I really, I'm gonna mather my father.
Speaker 1: I am going to love adversity today because I know
Speaker 1: I'm going to get it, so I can't avoid it.
Speaker 1: I don't hate it. Why hate something when you're gonna
Speaker 1: get it, you can't avoid I'm gonna love it, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna show you what a man I am. So
Speaker 1: I had a different trend of thinking. And I never
Speaker 1: felt sorry for myself ever because I had enough of
Speaker 1: that when I was a kid, and I never worried
Speaker 1: about choking David. This is an awful big statement. I
Speaker 1: never choked. I didn't win a tournament when I had
Speaker 1: a position to win. I was a position to win
Speaker 1: the Masters twice an Arnold Palmer hold a sixty five
Speaker 1: ft Bart Augusta from the bright hand side of the green.
Speaker 1: And then I had another time I had a six
Speaker 1: side in my hand, and I put in the bunker
Speaker 1: front bunker buried, and I never won. But I never choked,
Speaker 1: because I said, am I gonna choke about hitting a
Speaker 1: golf ball and winning in Syria and Iraq and places
Speaker 1: in the world, in in Africa where you know their wars?
Speaker 1: And am I going to worry about playing golf and
Speaker 1: hitting a golf ball? I adjusted my mind. I could
Speaker 1: go on and on and on and on and on
Speaker 1: tell you the things I did from my mind very different.
Speaker 1: I did, very different. Here's a story, Gary, you can
Speaker 1: deny it or agree with it, that I heard one
Speaker 1: of your tears in South Africa was a great Harold
Speaker 1: Henning Uh, one of the many Henning brothers Uh. And
Speaker 1: he said, I believe that he was saying that you
Speaker 1: were playing to get in the World Cup, and you're
Speaker 1: rooming together, and I think he woke up at two
Speaker 1: in the morning, and he said, what the hell is
Speaker 1: going on here? Because he heard you talking to yourself
Speaker 1: in front of the mirror that, hey, I'm going to
Speaker 1: be number one, I'm the greatest. I mean it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, almost like a Muhammad Ali type thing, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, was it was that true or false? No,
Speaker 1: that's true. He said, are you He said, you're talking
Speaker 1: here to your steep boy. Are you awake? And then
Speaker 1: there was no gym. He didn't have a gym. There
Speaker 1: had spain in the hotel where we were staying, so
Speaker 1: I had George Bloomberg and his wife were staying in
Speaker 1: adjoining room. So I knocked on the door. I said, George,
Speaker 1: come yet when he says, what do you want? He
Speaker 1: was in his pajamas. I said, get on my back. Now.
Speaker 1: He hasn't made of seventy and he's holding got an
Speaker 1: unding my squatch. He said, Gary, I don't like this.
Speaker 1: I said, shut up. So the next you are knocked
Speaker 1: on the door, he says, the doors locked. I'm not
Speaker 1: coming coming. It's it's interesting when you look back, I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean you you spoke about Greg Mormon a while ago,
Speaker 1: and I was saying there's one of the most talented
Speaker 1: players who really, if you think about it, was very
Speaker 1: much an underachiever. I mean, you want two majors, he
Speaker 1: want to opens. But I mean the had a lot
Speaker 1: of things happened to him. But here's a guy that's
Speaker 1: just something that was snake bit or something. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, you would have expected him to sort of
Speaker 1: one eight to ten majors in his career from a
Speaker 1: pure talent standpoint. I mean there was nobody better than
Speaker 1: him at that stage. No nobody. Yeah, I mean he
Speaker 1: found it difficult to close the deal. No, that's right.
Speaker 1: You see, you can go. You can mention this about
Speaker 1: a lot of players in life. Uh. You know. The
Speaker 1: trouble is when you do it, you don't mean to
Speaker 1: be critical. I'm never critical. I respect for everybody. But
Speaker 1: there are facts, the facts that you cannot deny, and
Speaker 1: some players might not like it, but that is a
Speaker 1: fact that Greg Norman, I mean, he was I never
Speaker 1: saw a better driver of a golf call than Greg Norman. Never.
Speaker 1: But there was something wrong. There was something wrong, and
Speaker 1: I don't profess to know what. I don't think he
Speaker 1: played under pressure very well. I think that was something
Speaker 1: that I noticed in his career. And what the reason was,
Speaker 1: I don't know, but he should have won at least
Speaker 1: at least eight or at least six majors at least
Speaker 1: so but you know, here's the thing I tell I've
Speaker 1: got twenty two grandchildren, six children and two great grandchildren.
Speaker 1: And when I talked to young people too, I said,
Speaker 1: please don't ever use the word if if ben Hogan
Speaker 1: never had to go to war, and if ben Hogan
Speaker 1: never had an accident, he would have won way over
Speaker 1: twenty major championships. He went toward his prime, so he
Speaker 1: never played in fifteen major hampionships. Brian, same with Sam Snead.
Speaker 1: Basically what would they have done? If Tom Watson had
Speaker 1: won the PGA, he would have won the Grand Slab.
Speaker 1: If Rory McElroy had won the Masters, If Jordan's Speet
Speaker 1: wins the p G A which he will in time,
Speaker 1: I think, and if this and if that, I mean,
Speaker 1: you can go on and on and on. If Arnold
Speaker 1: Palmer won the PGA would have won the Grand Slam.
Speaker 1: If Travino won the Masters, he would have won the
Speaker 1: Grand Slam. But you've gotta laugh, and you've got to
Speaker 1: enjoy the game and you know. Fortunately, I'm so delighted
Speaker 1: I came along at my time. Yes, would I like
Speaker 1: to have had the opportunity to play against Tiger and
Speaker 1: these guys. I would have loved it with his modern
Speaker 1: day equipment where I could have hit the ball fifty
Speaker 1: yards further, play on greens like this, free telephone calls,
Speaker 1: flying in a private jet. You know, it's just free food,
Speaker 1: people media at the airport at ten o'clock at night.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a dream world. It's a it's actually
Speaker 1: it's not on. It's not on. And but I'd like
Speaker 1: to just digress for a minute and just say I
Speaker 1: cannot tell you how excited I was to see he
Speaker 1: DECKI much of Yama win the tournament. I've played in
Speaker 1: an Asia for thirty years and went to Japan on
Speaker 1: many occasions, and they've had so many good players Jambo, Asaki,
Speaker 1: you know, Oki and uh to Go, you can go on.
Speaker 1: They've had a host of good players come close to
Speaker 1: winning majors. The Japanese people, six percent of the population
Speaker 1: played golf. They've they're fanatical about the game. I can
Speaker 1: tell you if we never had this COVID lockdown, you
Speaker 1: would have had players or excuse me press didn't get
Speaker 1: on a plane the night before the final of Augusta.
Speaker 1: They would have come there just to cover he DECKI
Speaker 1: whether he won or lost, I've sent him I'm very
Speaker 1: happy you won because you will now be the Prime
Speaker 1: Minister and I won't need a visa to go there.
Speaker 1: But the thing is that what he did was just
Speaker 1: remarkable and it's gonna boost the game of golf to
Speaker 1: such a degree in Asia which benefits us all. And
Speaker 1: I cannot speak highly enough on And also the way
Speaker 1: you hang in there, and man, the way this guy
Speaker 1: rips through the ball. I mean, I've always said you've
Speaker 1: got to have an uninterrupted flow of motion through the ball.
Speaker 1: And look at him, he goes to like lightning. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it's wonderful. And that's if you don't do that
Speaker 1: under pressure, you've had it. Yeah, he's I mean, he's
Speaker 1: a very mild mannered guy. Doesn't say a lot. In
Speaker 1: fact that it was quite funny. A Japanese reporter was saying, well,
Speaker 1: he doesn't speak much English, but he also doesn't speak
Speaker 1: much Japanese. Gary, I want to I want to pay
Speaker 1: you a top of me because a lot of people
Speaker 1: say so what is it about Gary? You know that.
Speaker 1: What is it about? Gary? And I said, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the things that there's very few people in
Speaker 1: this world who when you're around, the vibes and off.
Speaker 1: And I think your enthusiasm and zest for life and
Speaker 1: your positiveness, I think it rubs off on everybody. I
Speaker 1: just want to tell you this because I know it's
Speaker 1: like it's it's you. You have what I would call
Speaker 1: that feel good factor, and so obviously you you you
Speaker 1: utilize that in your daily life, and I think you
Speaker 1: know every people that you come into contact with, whether
Speaker 1: you're promoting fitness and health and the game of golf
Speaker 1: as a whole and globalizing the game to make it
Speaker 1: better for everybody. But you know, I think that's one
Speaker 1: of the things to me I've always sort of felt about. Wow,
Speaker 1: you know, you just feel good after being around you.
Speaker 1: So so if I feel good being around you, you're
Speaker 1: gonna feel good about being around yourself as well. Well.
Speaker 1: Thank you, David. That's such a nice compliment, and I
Speaker 1: appreciate that. But I just love people. Man. I speak
Speaker 1: to the old lady who's sweeping the airport. Actually I
Speaker 1: speak to a guy sweeping the street I just love people.
Speaker 1: I've been blessed to be around, from president to put
Speaker 1: villagers in Africa and India, and you learn something from everybody.
Speaker 1: When you go to those villages in Africa and India,
Speaker 1: you learn about humility, and you learn about a very
Speaker 1: essential ingredient, and that's called gratitude. I'm so grateful. I
Speaker 1: never go to bed ever, not one night of my
Speaker 1: life to say thank you. I like to go and
Speaker 1: arrive at Augusta, for example. I like to walk through
Speaker 1: Magnolia Lane, which I don't do on every occasion, but
Speaker 1: I walked through there, this ambiance of this place, the
Speaker 1: great beauty. President Isisenland has been there, Bobby Jones, this wonderful,
Speaker 1: wonderful man, and Clifford Roberts, who and and I just say,
Speaker 1: I've won the three times, second, three times, top ten,
Speaker 1: fourteen times, most number of cuts, most number of times.
Speaker 1: How lucky am I I've come to say thank you?
Speaker 1: Amongst these trees. One must never forget to be grateful
Speaker 1: for things, because when you think what's transpiring around the
Speaker 1: world today, and having traveled more miles and anybody that
Speaker 1: ever lived these eyes are mine have seen things that
Speaker 1: are so terrifying, good and bad. But it reminds you
Speaker 1: to say a little word called thank you. Very very important,
Speaker 1: but thank you very much. Quite honestly, I think the
Speaker 1: same about you. You've always smiling, you're always pleasant, You're
Speaker 1: extremely well mannered. Thank you for being with us. You
Speaker 1: and I could speak forever on this that. Thank you
Speaker 1: very much. Indeed, I've really enjoyed being with you, my friend.
Speaker 1: Thanks Gary enjoyed it so much. Down the road. Don't
Speaker 1: forget to subscribe to the Player series on Apple, Spotify,
Speaker 1: for wherever you get your podcast