WEBVTT - David Leadbetter 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.760 M. David, I'd just like to welcome you to the 0:00:04.840 --> 0:00:08.319 Player series. You know, I'm so pleased to have you 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:11.879 on the show. You're being such a great gentleman. You've 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:15.960 marketed the sport as well as anybody that's ever played 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:18.319 the game. And it's so nice to be able to 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:21.280 chat to you again today with something so many interesting 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:25.279 things to speak about, because you really highly involved, you know, 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:28.880 I remember, I remember you played the tour in South 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:31.960 Africa and you also played in Europe if I'm not mistaken, 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:35.720 and then decided to go into teaching, and you know, 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:39.919 you've had so many good players over the years. And 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:42.880 one of the things that are frustrating me right now 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:47.800 is when I hear people talk about the modern days swing, 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:51.320 you know, David, Honestly, if you look at a book 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.640 by Percy Boomer, I don't know if you've ever read 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:58.320 that bottom line, one of my favorite on learning goals. Yeah, 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:01.200 that's right. He talks about only of the things today. 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:03.680 Henry Cotton wrote a book would best be a hundred 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:07.200 years ago with the cross handed and all these different 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:10.720 pudding strokes and things in there, the speed slots in 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:14.280 the gay and the club there is I'm dying to 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:18.320 hear of one new thing that I've never heard of 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:20.880 in my life. And I can assure you there's nothing, 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:23.800 there's no such thing as a modern day swing. What 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:26.760 do you think, well, I I tend to agree with 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:29.280 you there, Gary. I mean, look, you've got obviously you've 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.200 got modern athletes. Now athletes have improved. I mean you 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:35.840 started this whole trend, and that the fitness aspect and 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:40.080 the change in equipment. I think the the equipment now 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:43.160 matches the player a lot better. Where back in your 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:44.640 day and even my day, it was a bit of 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:46.880 a trial and area to find the right driver, find 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:50.440 the right shaft. Now obviously you can you can pinpoint 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:53.720 what suits you best. And even golf balls. I mean 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.560 they're finding golf balls some spin more some spin there. 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:00.640 So the athletes of advantage obviously, But as far as 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:04.000 technique is concerned, I mean, we've seen it all before. 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:06.680 I mean it's like, hey, maybe we're not wearing tweet 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:09.840 jackets and playing with hickory shafts, but the fact is, 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:12.000 I mean, you know, they're still trying to figure out 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:13.560 how to get that down ball in the hole and 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:17.000 fewer shots as possible, you know, and so yeah, I mean, 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:19.400 you know, what do they call the modern swing? I mean, 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:21.840 the modern swing now is something which I know is 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.880 really uh, you know, makes you angry as the old 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:29.760 sort of you know, Hey, this position here, which you 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.800 know we've seen players in the past, Trevino, Palmer and 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.240 et cetera, and you know, it's it's a way to play. 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.720 But if there's any longevity to the game, I mean, 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:40.679 if you look at the greats, I mean, they never 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.200 had that position. It was almost as if they had 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:45.840 this neutral position, which Hogan was a big advocate of. 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:50.560 Exactly if you look at longevity, and of course today 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:53.760 everybody's good a different opinion. I wanted to have longevity 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:56.840 and I still want longevity at eighty five. And if 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.320 you look at Palmer, he had a very very short career. 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:02.320 Nick Ut one majors for twenty five years. I won 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:05.920 for twenty, Palmer one for six. Now you can play 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:09.000 golf that way? You can't play, yes, but I don't know. 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.240 You see, if your body is not strong enough, if 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:13.960 your body is not strong enough, if you start to 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:17.239 hit those hooks and you can't get the club back, 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:19.960 that your backs wing get shorter and shorter. If you 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:23.240 look at John Ram, this highly talented man. I mean, 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:26.840 this guy could really play his back swing honestly, goodness 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:29.680 is so short. And what's going to happen in ten 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.880 years time. It's going to get shorter and shorter. So 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.760 you've got to think of the length of the back swing. 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.920 And I was very interested to see one of the commentators, 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:43.000 uh on the during the Baster said, oh, you know, 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:47.880 they don't have these long flowing swings anymore. You know, 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:51.760 I've never heard such nonsense in my life. The greatest 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:55.400 players that ever lived, the greatest swing ever that ever 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.520 man ever, ever ever had by Miles Ben Hogan. He 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:01.600 had a long back split. Sam Sneed had a long backsweek. 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.320 Jack Nicholas had a long backswek Tiger Woods had a 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:08.400 long back speak every superstar now to me, I have 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.400 my own version of a superstar. Everybody uses the words 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:14.240 superstar too lightly. I think you've got to win six majors. 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:16.560 I've never seen a superstar that didn't ever the had 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:18.520 a short back sleep. And you know, I was blessed 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:22.120 to be around Hogan, and of course he'd never say much, 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:24.200 but he said some things to me that really enabled 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:27.560 me to win the eighteen major championships, and so you 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:30.120 know you're gonna be very careful what you say, the 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:34.040 same as they criticize Deshambro. You know, oh, here comes 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:36.640 the cook, here comes the scientist. Well, the shoes on 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:39.279 the other foot, actually Deschambro, and I'd be anxious to 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:41.040 hear what you've got to say. I think he has 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:44.760 an outstanding swing. Now he does slash it an occasionally, 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:47.480 but that's what makes him exciting. But you and I 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:50.520 know it's not long driving the twins tournaments. It's an asset, 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:54.960 but it's always the patting and the mind. What do 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:58.320 you think, right right? Right? Well, yeah, Branson Deshambo, he 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:02.920 is he's a a different type of individual. Let's face it, 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:05.840 he's got a he's got an inquisitive mind. He's very 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:09.200 scientific in his approach, and I mean he's not stupid. 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.840 I mean, look, he realizes, like the US Open, Hey, 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:13.880 if I hit it fifty yards further close to bit 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:16.080 the green and he's other guys and coming out of 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:18.159 this rough, I've got a much better chance than somebody 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:21.120 hitting a seven nine. I'm hitting herring a wedge. So 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.320 you know it's interesting. I mean, obviously time will tell 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:26.640 hopefully his body can stand up to the I mean, 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.239 he certainly puts a lot of stress on his body. 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.680 I mean, you know, even the on the eve of 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:33.680 the Master's Gary, he was out there for an hour 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:37.599 pounding drivers and whether certainly he's got to work out 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.680 in order to facilitate that. But it's a I mean 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:43.039 he's got a he's got a very simple swing, very simple. 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:45.520 I mean it's sort of a you know, you you 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.280 hear about more Norman, right, I mean I watched him 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:50.520 hit balls. I'm sure you saw him over the years. 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:52.719 I mean, he was a great player in Canada, but 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:54.719 he was certainly one of the straightest. It isn't he 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:57.560 had what they call a one playing swing, and that's 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:01.279 what the shambo works on. But he's I mean, he's 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:04.080 I mean it's interesting and I think it's good for 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:06.520 the game. You've got people like that talking about something, 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:08.719 people like this. I mean, in your day, I mean, 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:11.960 you were you, you were sort of a one off. 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:13.960 The factor is working out what the hecks out? Are 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:16.440 you crazy? And it's gonna look, you're gonna lose your field, 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:18.560 You're going to do this, You're gonna do that, and 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:20.800 and so you just proved that, and I think, you know, 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:23.279 maybe he's just proving things as well. And the fact 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:25.520 is that, look, if you get bigger, you get stronger, 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:27.920 and you have mobility, you're going to hit the ball 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:30.040 a long way. And as as you say, look it's 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.680 about Paddy hitting your iron shots close to the whole. 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:35.520 To Golf is a multi faceted game, let's face and 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:38.400 it's not just one aspect. I mean, if you look 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:41.320 at all the greats, including yourself, I mean, alright, you're 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:43.359 a great bucker player, You're a great chipper, you're a 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:45.640 great padder. You know, you're a great fairware would player. 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:47.880 So I mean you've got to have all these elements going. 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:49.880 I think that's the difficulty with this game. It's not 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.560 just like baseball where hey smash it out of the 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:54.360 park and how you're going to be a great player 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:57.120 if you do that regularly engulf I mean, there's how 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:00.640 many long drive guys have actually been successful. So so 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.520 we're seeing maybe a change in trends, and I think 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:05.680 it's interesting. I mean, we talked about the involvement of 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:09.000 the game, and I mean that is obviously power is 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:11.200 going to be I mean, and we'll maybe we'll talk 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:13.320 about that how they reign in some of that power 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:15.840 because some of these golf courses are being made a 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:18.760 little bit obsolete in many in many instances, which is 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.040 which is a shame that you know, I mean, that's 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:24.560 I guess it's called progress, right, Garret, Well, you know, 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:27.800 here's an interesting thing that the leaders of the game 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.720 have got to wake up and realize. And I admire 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:33.600 the leaders of the game, but they've got to have 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:39.040 more vision where the shambro ends up. Now you're gonna 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:41.560 have people come out and carry the ball over that 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:45.920 you've never seen a big play like Lebron James or 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:49.560 Michael Jordan's come and play golfing. They're coming because these 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.920 young people at university now they are learning that there's 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.960 longevity and golf and you can make a lot of 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:58.440 money for a long time. Where's other sports? And then 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:01.360 if l players there for three years and he leaves, 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:03.360 and man, he's been hit in the head and his 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:05.960 shoulders and he's an agony for the rest of his life. 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:09.160 So and everybody wants to have a support to participate 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:11.440 in for as long as possible. One of the great 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:13.640 joys I wake up every day again to the gym. 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.920 Can I beat my age by eighteen shots? Can I 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:20.000 stretch and get my swing longer? You know, there's always 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:22.360 a challenge until the day you die. That's if you 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:24.560 love the game, which I just love the game. I 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:27.800 love playing with with business people or anybody. And I 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:31.080 love talking to young people. And people say to me, 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:33.160 these young kids, what do I do to become a champion? 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.440 I said, it's a thing called it. And I'm just 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:38.720 going to digress for a minute. I think the player 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:42.640 on the tour at the moment who has really got 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:47.240 it is Jordan's speech. Now, Jordan's speech. He is as 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:51.360 good a player I think from sixty yards that the 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.160 world has ever seen. I mean that's a big statement. 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:58.160 But he's not in the top thirty players from t 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:02.439 to green. And but he's got it. He knows how 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.920 to compete, he knows how to never give up. He 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:08.680 knows how to play the right shot at the right time. 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.040 It doesn't always come off. But because he has a 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:14.959 lot of faults and he's swing and if he ever 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:18.600 gets the right, goodness me will he be number one 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.360 in the world without a question. And he's a wonderful 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:24.280 young man. He's a real all American guy, and I 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:29.720 just love him so. But Winston Churchill said, the height 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:35.360 that great men reached and kept we're not attained by 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:39.840 sudden flight. But while his opponents were sleeping, he was 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:43.000 toiling upward in the night. And that's what I did. 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:44.920 I went to the gym at twelve o'clock when I 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:47.920 came back from a dinner, and I asked the hotel manager, 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:49.880 please let me have the key for the gym. No, no, no, 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:51.959 and I said please. Now, I promise you I'll keep 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:55.760 it tidy. Now, this is what has been Shambro is doing. 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:59.400 And I just love his work ethic and don't forget 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:02.559 when he was the tournament at Arnold Partner's Course, he 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:04.679 won it not because of his long driving. He won 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.520 it because of his putting. The way the commentators were 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:09.600 talking about, you would have thought, and I said to 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:12.480 the one commentator, how far did he drive westward? By 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:15.000 oh ninety yards? Well, the way you guys were talking, 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:17.240 you'd think he'd have a twenty shot lead coming to 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:19.600 the last hole. But with his long hitting, it all 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:23.840 came down to Deschambro holding a lot of puts. And 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:27.000 this is what always wins the tournament. Tiger Woods was 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:30.040 not a good driver of the ball accurate wife. Neither 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:32.920 was for Michauls, but they were one and two in 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:36.079 the world. We know you can play a bad round 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:39.320 of golf and if you put well, you can break seventy, 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:43.600 but you cannot break seventy if you're putting badly. Yeah, 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:45.959 I remember years ago you saying, Gary, there's going to 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:47.880 be people are gonna be coming out. They're gonna be 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.319 hitting the ball four hundred yards. This is a twenty 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:52.920 years ago. I remember chatting to you and no, there's 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:56.319 no question. Look, athletes are better. I mean training is better. 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.040 Although having said that, I think some of the training 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:01.240 I mean you, I'd like to hear your opinion on this, 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:04.480 because if you look at Tiger, I think to some 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:06.600 extent he's trained the wrong way. I mean I think 0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:10.440 a lot of his injuries could be actually maybe based 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:13.400 on how he was working out, I mean running with 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:16.240 running marathons with weight belts on and so on and 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:19.720 so forth. And so I always remember John Daily telling me, Gay, 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:23.720 this is a complete this is a complete the opposite 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:25.559 of the way you think. I said, John, you ever 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:27.599 work out? He says, Now he says. My theory is 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.160 he said you can you can pull a muscle, but 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:36.600 you can't pull fat. So that's a different a different approach. 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:39.720 I guess, well, I want to say this, John Daily, 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:44.600 in my opinion, he uh he was second to Tiger 0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.760 on the tour with ability. This man had such ability. 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:52.800 But he certainly had unbelievable ability, A great touch, a 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.800 great touch. You know. So what are your feelings on 0:11:55.960 --> 0:12:00.520 Rory McElroy because obviously immense talent that just doesn't seem 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:03.200 to fulfilled it. I mean, if you you would say 0:12:03.240 --> 0:12:05.079 probably at this stage of the games, but I think 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:08.320 you've got one four majors um, But I mean you'd 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:13.880 say he probably underachieved in many respects. Yes, Well said, 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:18.440 He's definitely underachieved because this man has the best golf 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:22.720 swing on the tour. And uh, I know he's obsessed 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:24.640 with hitting the ball a long way, but that's not 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:28.360 a bad fault. He's a great exerciser. I just love 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:32.959 the guy. He's a He exercises and to win four 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:35.959 majors as a starter as phenomenal. But you know, I'm 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:38.720 expecting him to go on I mean every year. I 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:40.680 just think he's going to win the Masters because the 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:42.800 course has made for him. There's never been a golf 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:45.640 course that has made more for him than that golf course. 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:48.760 What is wrong with him? I don't know. I don't 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.000 profess to know, but I do know one thing. It's 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.280 not in the swing. And if he's looking for it 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:56.760 in the swing, and I see he had Pete Cowan yet, fine, 0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:59.719 but I don't think you should be having lessons from 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:01.960 a O the week before the Masters. I don't think 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.720 you should be doing that. But everybody's got their own opinion. 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.720 I think, well, when I wanted to win the Grand Slam, 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.040 and when I went to I used to go into 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:14.040 a reverie. I used to do meditating, I used to 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:15.920 do positive thinking. I mean, I don't want to go 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:18.680 into the whole thing, but I trained myself mentally to 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:22.199 win the tournament. When I wanted to beat Jack Nicholas 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:24.280 to win the Grand Slam, I went to the scoreboard 0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.520 in the morning at six thirty and I sat in 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.520 front of the scoreboard on a tight ch position and 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.840 I visualized Gary Player, my name being on that scoreboard, 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:35.600 and I did so many things that were very different 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.920 to ethletes that do today. Now there's no question. The 0:13:39.000 --> 0:13:42.720 reason that Rory McElroy it's nothing to do these swing 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:46.319 at all. The swing is not the thing, it's the mind. 0:13:46.440 --> 0:13:49.040 He's got to get that right when he plays in 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:51.319 that tournament. And I don't know what he thinks about. 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:53.680 I don't know if he's nervous. You don't know what's 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:56.679 inside of a man, David. But my goodness me, if 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:59.760 ever I've seen a man with talent, it's Rory mcelroyin 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:01.640 We're all want to see him when the Grand slamb 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:04.040 same as we want to see Jordan's speeds when the 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.600 Grand Slam. So I wouldn't speed gets his string right, 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.640 he will win the Grand Slam, there's no question. Because 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:14.800 this guy is he's got it. Really, how many players 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:16.600 can I see on the tour that have got it? 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:21.200 My my idea of it. Not many wonderful strikers in 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.840 the ball, wonderful scorers. I don't know how consistent they 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:29.080 are at playing. That's another thing that's important. But I 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:32.000 don't know. Does money have an effect? You know they're 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:35.880 making hundreds of millions. To me, money wasn't the thing. 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:39.280 If somebody I didn't worry, I didn't play golf for 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:42.960 money because there wasn't much money. I played because I 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:45.200 wanted to be the best and said it. Arnold and 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.320 said it, Jack and said it, Travina and said it, 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.240 watch it and said it home. I wouldn't say that sneat. 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:53.240 He loved money, man money, that men would travel from 0:14:53.280 --> 0:15:07.600 here to Australia for five grand. How do you see that? 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:11.400 The great champions of the part of your era and 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.400 even subsequent to that, I mean, how do you see 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:17.560 them versus the modern day player should be say do 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:19.800 you do you see there's the I mean, do you 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:22.480 see there's more love in the game those players back 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:24.640 then you talked about the money, and obviously these players 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.040 making so much money now flying around in private jets 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:31.160 and everything else, does that somehow dampen the their ability 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:35.720 to sort of maybe become great at winning a bunch 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:39.400 of majors? Brandon Grace said to me at Cape Town, 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:43.160 who I love by the way, we were in at 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.200 fan Courtney said, you know when you and Jack and 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.080 Arnold and Tom Watson when Torments said were only about 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:50.600 thirty players you had to beat. Today, we've gotta beat 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:52.840 at least eight players. I said, you're right, you've gotta 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:56.200 beat ad players. But I came down during COVID in 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:59.800 Philadelphia at my daughter's house, and I sat down and 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:02.600 I got all the players that played in our time. 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:06.680 There were fifty nine major champions playing out tour at 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.320 that time. Think about it, fifty nine. There's certainly not 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:14.360 fifty nine now. So people underestimate players of the past 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:16.720 and what they do at present. When I played the tour, 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.120 I made the same mistake as Brandon, and I thought, oh, well, 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.200 this is much tougher to win golf tourments today than 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:24.720 when Hogan played. Oh you just looked who played when 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:27.280 Hogan was there. Just sit down and do your homework 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:29.480 and see the players that were there. There were players 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.000 that golfers on the store have never even heard of. 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.680 And you think that Bobby Jones, the scores he did 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:39.920 with a ball that went eighty yards less, a walking stick, 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:43.280 a face on the club and looked like a frying pan. 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:46.000 I mean, in the conditions that he played in the 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:50.440 scores he did unbelievable. We must have respect for present 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:55.640 and for past. The game. Interesting, know what you think 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.520 You're gonna go to St. Andrews for the Open soon 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:04.720 and on a calm day, the right conditions, Bryson deshambo 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:07.439 is going to drive nine greens. Now, what do you feel? 0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:09.800 I mean, I'm in favor of slowing the ball down. 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:13.679 Otherwise we can't build more golf courses. A lot of 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:17.639 people who are city slickers and don't understand the situation 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:20.600 of water. That's the biggest issue. We're gonna run out 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.639 of water in the world by the five will be 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.399 short of twenty five percent of water. Now, can you 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:29.600 go and build longer golf courses? No, it's too expensive. 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:34.480 Machinery is a fortune, I mean the fertilization, but the 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.840 water is the issue. So we have no choice but 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:41.639 to slow the ball down. Um. I know Tom Watson 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:43.960 said the other day, and I respect his opinion. He 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.600 he doesn't think they should slow the ball down. Arnold 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:49.720 and Jack and a host of others. I think Trevino 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:52.200 believes that. I think you believe in it. If you don't, 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:55.520 it's going to become a joke on how golf has played. 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:57.520 And I mean, we don't want to see that because 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:02.040 the average man cannot relate to it. Well, you know, 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:05.359 I think it boils down. Gary. Look, I mean I 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:07.159 I agree with you I mean something has to be 0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:10.000 done because otherwise, I say, you know, if every golf 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:11.840 course is going to be a pitch and pat tack course, 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:15.119 and so it's I mean, how when you think about 0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:17.119 preparing a golf course, they would say, we will make 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:19.840 the course is fast and narrow, the fairways thick in 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:22.000 the rough. But that's for one week a year. What 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:23.639 are the poor members going to do the rest of 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.560 the time. So I think we when when you look 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:29.320 at legislation, I've always felt that there should be I 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:31.840 wouldn't say two sets of rules, but I think that 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:34.680 the tour players, maybe the U. S g a A 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.320 at that elite level, need to govern themselves. I mean, 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:39.240 I think the average golfer who wants to go up 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:41.080 there and have some fun and if he hits the 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.240 twenty yards longer with a particular driver or a particular ball, 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:46.840 hey have had it because they're just gonna have more enjoyment. 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:49.520 But at the tour player level, I mean there has 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:51.680 me Take baseball for instance, I mean, look at Major 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:56.439 League Baseball. They don't use aluminium bats that you know 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:59.560 they used, wouldn't they use wooden bats? Okay, So so 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.560 that there can be some changes, and maybe the tour 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:06.800 has to start to regulate itself and figure out Okay, 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:08.840 if well, what if we want to make this a 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.720 game for the future, because otherwise you're gonna you're gonna 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:14.119 eliminate players. I mean, you think of players now like 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.320 a Corey pavement, how would they compete today? It's it 0:19:17.359 --> 0:19:19.960 would be impossible. I mean, here's a player that worked 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:21.639 the ball and did this and did that with the 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.560 golf ball. But so you're seeing I mean, yes, you 0:19:24.640 --> 0:19:27.439 know it's an athletic sport, but the fact is you 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:29.560 want to bring all types of players. Say, it's more 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:31.520 than just long hitting, as you say, being able to 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:35.200 control the ball, being able to control your distances, control 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:37.760 the shape of the shot that trajector, et cetera. So 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:40.880 I don't know, I just felt that there may be there, 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.760 maybe should be make what they call it bifurcation. I 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:46.359 think that it's a fancy word that they used where 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.280 But hey, there's some slightly different rules for the tour, 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:51.520 you know, So I don't know if that's a if 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:53.560 that's an answer or not. I mean, and everybody wants 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:55.560 to play what the tour players are playing. Let's face it, 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.480 Gary they're not playing the same clubs or using the 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:01.720 same ball tour plays are using now. I spoke to 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:04.720 Peter Dawson of the R and a who I got 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:08.040 on extremely well whip it here and I completely disagreed 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:11.520 with each other. I said, there should be equipment for 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:14.880 pros and and the amateurs should be allowed to use 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:19.000 what they like, because we need more people to play golf. 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:21.040 You don't want to cut the ball back for the amateurs. 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.040