Speaker 1: Be Around the NFL podcast, walked out shirtless halfway through
Speaker 1: a podcast from the Chris Westling podcast studio. It's around
Speaker 1: the NFL. I'm Dan Hansas, got a room filled with
Speaker 1: some heroes, great rows at all and he's back, baby,
Speaker 1: Mark Sessler, what's up, dude? Oh he's back. What a
Speaker 1: treasure to return. I imagine, I imagine you went somewhere mystical,
Speaker 1: somewhere deep. You had conversations with villagers. Perhaps what was
Speaker 1: your time away? Like, we went out of our way
Speaker 1: to stay and give you a wide berth. During this time,
Speaker 1: there were a couple of times when I looked at
Speaker 1: my phone and they were like I had still been
Speaker 1: attached to these text threads that were, you know, exploding,
Speaker 1: But I Erica did. At one point, I could not
Speaker 1: come back with any aggression. I just sort of didn't
Speaker 1: even answer. I let it flow by. But I did
Speaker 1: very little, to be honest. We had our kids home
Speaker 1: for spring break, but I ventured up into Hollywood one evening.
Speaker 1: You went into the city. Yes, this is the wrong
Speaker 1: drop breaking. We need some bright lights, big city, but
Speaker 1: I think it actually fits on some level. Um had
Speaker 1: a mystical time, had a nice time, that's good. That's
Speaker 1: a that's a Mark move actually is to walk around
Speaker 1: the city, usually find a place where someone was killed,
Speaker 1: uh and then do like an instagram with the you
Speaker 1: know at magic hour, you're not wrong, the lights going down,
Speaker 1: it's you who can beat the l a light. The
Speaker 1: scene at the end of good Will Hunting where Chucky
Speaker 1: is talking to Will and he's like, you know what,
Speaker 1: the best part of my day is those ten seconds
Speaker 1: from my car when I get to your door and
Speaker 1: I hope that you're gone, and you never said anything,
Speaker 1: you just walked away. I'm the opposite of that. That's
Speaker 1: not what I want. I never want you to leave.
Speaker 1: So when I do that hypothetical ten second, all I'm
Speaker 1: hoping for is that you're there. The word seconds to
Speaker 1: your day is believing, oh, this is the day Mark
Speaker 1: is gone. And then went to went to uh the
Speaker 1: Northeast to see about a girl. I have a men's
Speaker 1: some camp. I have a men's financial entanglements. It's not
Speaker 1: going to be easy for me to uh to go
Speaker 1: anywhere for long, right, You're not going to be just
Speaker 1: driving on a highway and a beat up Pontiac with
Speaker 1: Elliott Smith playing not in this Lifetime. He leaves a
Speaker 1: note I got to see about a girl, and it's like,
Speaker 1: a it's a picture from camp. What is it code?
Speaker 1: The real name of that? Well just at that at
Speaker 1: this point, that is just the name of the camp.
Speaker 1: So that we did. There were a few photos of
Speaker 1: Mark is a nineteen year old or sixteen year old
Speaker 1: on the Graham and Twitter, and sometimes I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: what's going on there? But in this case, again I
Speaker 1: just let it fly. So I think you did comment.
Speaker 1: Oh you also used to hit me up when you'd
Speaker 1: be in Hollywood or West Hollywood, and I my phone
Speaker 1: was silent, not intentionally. I wasn't on a ghost to
Speaker 1: you or anything. I just thought, maybe you're so your
Speaker 1: social calendar is very busy. All right, enough interrogation of Mark.
Speaker 1: Welcome back, buddy. Uh, you're a mystical man. Coming up
Speaker 1: on today's show. We continue. We had Daniel Jeremiah on
Speaker 1: the program last Thursday, Mark, while you were out, because well,
Speaker 1: I know you've listened to the show since you were away,
Speaker 1: but uh, we had DJ on the show for exactly
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes. That's what he gave us, and that's what
Speaker 1: we took. We actually took seventeen. That was a little
Speaker 1: stick it to him a little bit. He uh, well,
Speaker 1: that's why was it so brutal oriented just because he's
Speaker 1: so peaceful. It was a good seventeen. And now today
Speaker 1: we have Josh Norris uh formerly of roade a World,
Speaker 1: now with the Underdog Network, and he is one of
Speaker 1: the top dudes in the game in the mock draft
Speaker 1: game for the draft because I mean, I'll get to
Speaker 1: it a little bit later, but he is greg statistically
Speaker 1: the greatest mock draft of all time. So we're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's the dude to get on the show. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: still work with him at Road to World, but he
Speaker 1: hit what I believe was the yea, the most accurate
Speaker 1: mock of all time was a year ago, and what
Speaker 1: he's done since, especially in this draft season, is just
Speaker 1: spiked the football endlessly and remind people that he's the
Speaker 1: defending champion. He takes He takes a very sixteen first
Speaker 1: round picks left year. I mean, I've succeeded with my
Speaker 1: mock draft at times where I've you know, superseded some
Speaker 1: of the industry family. They don't put me in that
Speaker 1: statistical study, but I think I was bragging when I
Speaker 1: got like three, so sixteen is um from another place?
Speaker 1: Is there a Mark Sesler mock Draft coming? It is
Speaker 1: coming back. Um, it's gonna be a little different. It's
Speaker 1: gonna be the whole first round. But then I'm going
Speaker 1: to have an extra ten locks that go from rounds
Speaker 1: two through seven, like targeted two team player two team locks.
Speaker 1: And also this will be offline. This will be maybe
Speaker 1: on your i G stories or you can find it
Speaker 1: somewhere else in the sports landscape. Our employer has literal interest.
Speaker 1: Little would be strong. There's there's been no discussion for
Speaker 1: the eighth year in a row about that, so no
Speaker 1: I brought it up. I brought it up to Greg privately,
Speaker 1: as like, oh, we can get the Mark Seler mock
Speaker 1: Draft back as a segment. Oh so it's not even
Speaker 1: appearing on this vehicle. That's fright. We gotta plan out
Speaker 1: next week. We forgot about that a lot of us.
Speaker 1: All Right, we got so much to get to, let's start.
Speaker 1: But I'm happy. Like I said, Chucky, he didn't want
Speaker 1: to see will I want you to stay right here?
Speaker 1: I think that for similar reasons. But yes, yeah, well
Speaker 1: it's it's that friendship I think was like giving and
Speaker 1: um selfless, whereas Dan's is possessive, you know, and selfish.
Speaker 1: He wants you for his um interests. And that's this show. Well, differently,
Speaker 1: wouldn't it wouldn't it wouldn't fly without you. Different people,
Speaker 1: different needs. You've accurately nailed that one, Greg, all right,
Speaker 1: let's do some news with the the first pick in
Speaker 1: the two thousand and sixteen NFL Draft, the New York
Speaker 1: j e t s Jets select quarterback Christian Hackenberg. You know,
Speaker 1: there was a news item last I thought it'd be
Speaker 1: a little fun as we get closer to the draft
Speaker 1: to use our news drop to hit on some famous
Speaker 1: in in that case with Christian Hackenberg, infamous draft picks
Speaker 1: of the last ten years or so. There was a
Speaker 1: report recently, trying to remember who it came from, Mike
Speaker 1: Sando maybe, um, that players you know don't want to
Speaker 1: go to the Jets right now free agents, and they've tried,
Speaker 1: and they've tried, and they've tried. And that's what happens
Speaker 1: when you suck for an entire generation, When you suck
Speaker 1: for if you are a twenty if you're a twenty
Speaker 1: four year old NFL young star, twenty five year old
Speaker 1: and the Jets sucks from age twenty five, like age ten.
Speaker 1: That kind of creates a culture around your organization. You
Speaker 1: gotta dig out at some point. The Browns are another
Speaker 1: example that they had to deal with that for a
Speaker 1: long time as well. That's changing, I think, but they're
Speaker 1: buying their way back. I mean, that's the other way
Speaker 1: you can do it. I guess right, all right, Christian
Speaker 1: Hackburg never played a snap second round pick? Does he
Speaker 1: in one of those other leagues? Now? Like USFL started,
Speaker 1: I watched a little USFL. I did not see his name.
Speaker 1: I don't think he's there. I can't remember a pick
Speaker 1: that was so universally accepted as over the second it
Speaker 1: was made. And that was right, Like you know, conventional
Speaker 1: wisdom sometimes is right. In that case, it was all right.
Speaker 1: Let's get into the news. So big wide receiver offseason,
Speaker 1: huge trades, Tyreek killed Davante Adams, huge contracts are being
Speaker 1: handed out, and the agents of the players. Other star
Speaker 1: wide receivers have taken note and they are strategizing. Deebo Samuel,
Speaker 1: A J. Brown Samuel of the Niners, A J. Brown
Speaker 1: of the Titans, Terry McLaurin of the commanders are all
Speaker 1: skipping offseason workouts. They want new deals. These are all
Speaker 1: second round picks and McClaren's gate is a third round
Speaker 1: pick that are playing for relative peanuts and they are
Speaker 1: performing as star players in the case of Debo, and
Speaker 1: you could argue a J. Brown superstars. So you have
Speaker 1: a situation now where what's happening greg around the landscape
Speaker 1: of the league is creating a domino effect. And it
Speaker 1: makes you wonder two things. One, uh, has this become
Speaker 1: a summer long situation with these teams and their stars?
Speaker 1: And two could this lead to one of these players
Speaker 1: being moved as happened so often this past couple of months.
Speaker 1: They're using whatever they can right now, which isn't much
Speaker 1: to create some sort of leverage. I think all these
Speaker 1: teams are interested in resigning these players. Terry McLaren is
Speaker 1: showing up for workouts, we should um clarify, but he's
Speaker 1: not going to do any on field work. We're not
Speaker 1: even as he's there. He's because he's a quote leader
Speaker 1: according to Adam Schefter, but he's not working out. What
Speaker 1: does that even mean? I mean, he's not gonna go
Speaker 1: on the field. But maybe I'll do some some weightlifting
Speaker 1: and whatnot that most of the leader these teams aren't
Speaker 1: aren't working out on the field yet anyways. Deemo Samuel
Speaker 1: said he received death threats in a bunch of racist
Speaker 1: mets siges on his Instagram when he took the forty
Speaker 1: Niners UH team logo and stuff off of Instagram because
Speaker 1: he wants morening. So this is like, it's not it's
Speaker 1: not good together. I also don't think there's much risk
Speaker 1: of these guys not getting new contracts. But this is
Speaker 1: just sort of what you do and wake me up
Speaker 1: in training camp. Basically with all three of these, I'm
Speaker 1: with you. Ron Rivera came out very strong early in
Speaker 1: the off season on Terry McLaurin being a priority for
Speaker 1: the team. I buy it. John Robinson Mike Rabel have
Speaker 1: said the same about A. J. Brown, and they have.
Speaker 1: They're a team that has to start looking at their
Speaker 1: offensive roster a little bit differently if you're getting into
Speaker 1: the later stages of Derrick Henry. I I believe that
Speaker 1: that they have the second lease cap space in the league,
Speaker 1: but that doesn't bug me. I think look like that
Speaker 1: out Deebo Samuel, I just would like look at the
Speaker 1: way that in Kyle Shanahan's offense that when he finds
Speaker 1: the right pieces. Kyle us checked two contracts. George Kittle
Speaker 1: got paid. You think they're gonna not pay Deebo Samuel.
Speaker 1: It just seems absurd to me. It's just gonna happen that.
Speaker 1: The weird thing is that the agents are going out
Speaker 1: of their way to kind of make this an issue now.
Speaker 1: But players never get paid now entering their fourth year.
Speaker 1: They often get paid before their fourth season, and that's
Speaker 1: in the post draft period, just because teams haven't gotten
Speaker 1: to that stuff now, which is all the more reason
Speaker 1: why I don't think this is a big deal. All
Speaker 1: three of these players don't have fifth year options because
Speaker 1: they weren't drafted in the first round. I mean they've
Speaker 1: they've all famously fell in an unbelievable draft in which
Speaker 1: the New England Patriots selected in the Keel Harry in
Speaker 1: the first round. Just pointing that out. A little similar
Speaker 1: body type to a J. Brown. So it's gonna happen,
Speaker 1: but it would be totally surprising if it happened at
Speaker 1: this point of the year. It's the same. It's similar
Speaker 1: with Kyler Murray. I think that situation is different, but
Speaker 1: it these contracts never happened at this time of year
Speaker 1: for these types. And I would say I can't imagine
Speaker 1: it either, Mark with Deebo Samuel's that example, But I
Speaker 1: could have never imagined the Packers giving Aaron Rodgers all
Speaker 1: that money and then trading Davante Adams. That that stunned me.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, if that can happen, any team could
Speaker 1: talk itself into a reason why they should trade a
Speaker 1: guy and you know, save a ton of money and
Speaker 1: take draft picks on that. There's two sides of that coin,
Speaker 1: right when one reason you would want to start putting
Speaker 1: this message out here now is it's possible at least
Speaker 1: other teams jump in or are speaking to the agent,
Speaker 1: even though that's against the rules. That essentially that these
Speaker 1: players could know what type of contract that they could
Speaker 1: get from another team, and another team might even be
Speaker 1: offering draft picks leading up to the draft, and that
Speaker 1: like sets a price and it just moves the whole
Speaker 1: thing along. But it really seems like all three of
Speaker 1: these guys are going to stay with their teams because
Speaker 1: their teams know how good they are. Right, I'm just
Speaker 1: trying to imagine a scenario where Colin Shanahan in the
Speaker 1: same you know, Soliloquy tells us that we're moving on
Speaker 1: from Deebo Samuel, but we're all still gonna tell Trade
Speaker 1: Lands he's the starter come week one. Because if the
Speaker 1: one thing they had the least cap space in the league.
Speaker 1: And I know that no one cares about that stuff,
Speaker 1: but if you move Jimmy g or you cut them,
Speaker 1: it opens up million space five and not pay Deebo Samuel.
Speaker 1: Everyone going crazy like, oh, they're paying all this, so
Speaker 1: much money to these guys. The all the salary cap
Speaker 1: is going up, like they can figure it out. Don't
Speaker 1: feel bad for them. A J. Brown is making uh,
Speaker 1: barely more money than Byron Pringle, So I understand why
Speaker 1: these guys are agitated. Makes sense. Now to the team's
Speaker 1: blank and pay him. We'll see they well, the Browns
Speaker 1: they're paying. They sent out a industry shaking contract to
Speaker 1: Deshaun Watson and now they've signed cornerback Denzel Ward to
Speaker 1: a five year, one hundred point five million dollar contract
Speaker 1: extension and includes over seventy one million dollars guaranteed, makes
Speaker 1: them the highest paid cornerback in NFL. History, twenty five
Speaker 1: years old. Before the season starts, He'll turn the fourth
Speaker 1: overall pick in eighteen, taking three picks after Baker Mayfield. Uh.
Speaker 1: Mark A, where are you as a Browns person be?
Speaker 1: What do you think about this deal? I have not
Speaker 1: changed my stance on the Browns. If if anything, my
Speaker 1: interest in them just fades into the distance. Uh. I
Speaker 1: think this is this is kind of crazy because I like,
Speaker 1: I think Denzil Award is worth the money he is
Speaker 1: in all metrics wise, like the cornerbacks get paid and
Speaker 1: he's this is I have no problem with the idea
Speaker 1: of it. But if you look at their cap space
Speaker 1: next year, they have twenty nine million wrapped up in
Speaker 1: Miles Garrett twenty three and a Marie Cooper he could
Speaker 1: be gone. We never know whatever Awards deal is and
Speaker 1: fifty four and DeShawn Deshaun Watson. That's a hundred and
Speaker 1: two million and three players and guaranteed money. I think
Speaker 1: if anything, because one thing we heard from the owners meetings,
Speaker 1: it's at the Haslem family and Andrew Berry on down
Speaker 1: have annoyed the league beyond comprehension. It's not this contract
Speaker 1: as much as the the Watson one. But I mean,
Speaker 1: it's changing the game to some degree, but this one
Speaker 1: might a little, And to that I say, wow, wow,
Speaker 1: Like this one is so like the Browns are playing
Speaker 1: too much guaranteed money to to these players. It's making
Speaker 1: us actually have to play a contract like every other
Speaker 1: sports league has to. Like these owners who fail upwards
Speaker 1: like continually when they own these teams, many of them
Speaker 1: go through problem after problem, including the Brown's owner off
Speaker 1: the field and on the field in terms of the coach.
Speaker 1: And yet like they dare to complain that they are
Speaker 1: in a system that's totally rigged for them to succeed
Speaker 1: at every single level, especially with the salary cap. The
Speaker 1: salary cap is not going away. They're ultimately going to
Speaker 1: only pay to the salary cap. You could argue whether
Speaker 1: denzil Award is worth that much or not. I don't
Speaker 1: think there's much of an argument. The five for a
Speaker 1: hundred extension actually seems kind of reasonable at some point.
Speaker 1: If denzil Award is as good as we think he's
Speaker 1: gonna be, he's gonna be up three years into it
Speaker 1: that he's way too under think they're just trading guaranteed
Speaker 1: money for being able to control that cap. It, it
Speaker 1: won't be that high. Because it's a six year deal.
Speaker 1: They can spread it around, they can change it all around.
Speaker 1: They can do that with Watson a little What about
Speaker 1: but I, but I when I look at teams, if
Speaker 1: you look at certain teams where you've got fifty plus
Speaker 1: wrapped up in your quarterback and thirty in your past rusher,
Speaker 1: it creates issues. Right. But when it's a six year contract,
Speaker 1: which this is is a five year extension off the
Speaker 1: one they had now they never mentioned that it's not
Speaker 1: really ward though, it's it's the rest of the pull
Speaker 1: that money around and start giving them guarantees. And that's
Speaker 1: how you play the salary cap game unless you're a
Speaker 1: cheap owner that doesn't want to be paying to the
Speaker 1: cap and doing everything you can. The waves of the
Speaker 1: Watson deal will be shown with the quarterbacks to come,
Speaker 1: the justin Herbert's of the world that because what they've
Speaker 1: done here and again citing the person I spoke to
Speaker 1: about this, they've created they're creating a competitive advantage to
Speaker 1: the owners that are able to give out that amount
Speaker 1: of guaranteed money or willing to. And if you're not
Speaker 1: great to get left behind, great, But that's not good
Speaker 1: of the game. It's not good for the sport. If
Speaker 1: you're gonna have that's that's essentially out of there. I
Speaker 1: think it'd because they're not going anywhere, because they're still
Speaker 1: gonna be making a lot of money and there's and
Speaker 1: the fans are the ones that are gonna lose. That's
Speaker 1: to me that the concern I have as a football
Speaker 1: fan that the changing structures and the ownership and how
Speaker 1: this is all going to play out could end up
Speaker 1: leading to a upper class of NFL teams that are
Speaker 1: willing to pay that money and a lower class that
Speaker 1: are willing to just take the money that comes in
Speaker 1: for being an owner, like happens in Major League Baseball
Speaker 1: all the time. Now. Teams don't compete, but they don't
Speaker 1: care because they still still make money off TV deals
Speaker 1: and this and that and sharing ticket revenue. The money
Speaker 1: is guaranteed here for these owners in the NFL. That
Speaker 1: TV money, that the supposedly the deal that they're reportedly
Speaker 1: going to do with Apple to do Sunday ticket like
Speaker 1: that two point five billion. Everyone gets that money. So
Speaker 1: they're gonna have plenty of money. I would argue, like
Speaker 1: we're already at that point teams like the Cowboys, I believe,
Speaker 1: and I would throw the Eagles in there. There's a lot,
Speaker 1: but the teams that essentially haven't been rolling all the
Speaker 1: cap space over the Saints do everything they can't to
Speaker 1: spend all the money they can. They've already had an advantage.
Speaker 1: The Cowboys have had a huge advantage over the last
Speaker 1: twenty years. They've been spending a lot more cash than
Speaker 1: a lot of other teams, and I think that continues.
Speaker 1: And I have no sympathy for the owners who can't.
Speaker 1: Let's be careful with how you put that. I don't
Speaker 1: have sympathy for the owners. I have sympathy for the
Speaker 1: fans that there could be a creative like a competitive
Speaker 1: disadvantage with cheap owners and rich owners that are willing
Speaker 1: to spend money. I just think it could be bad
Speaker 1: for the sport. Then watch what happens with the Bengals
Speaker 1: when Joe Burrow wants this kind of money because they're
Speaker 1: they're they're a team right now that could not do that.
Speaker 1: I guess my thing too, is like the players that
Speaker 1: are getting the guaranteed money, first of all, the teams
Speaker 1: absolutely have that money, and these are only the top, top,
Speaker 1: top players like these are owners who are just cashing paychecks,
Speaker 1: who are somehow saying, like, what, we can't pay the
Speaker 1: greatest of our players guaranteed money if they made if
Speaker 1: they if for some reason they woke up tomorrow and
Speaker 1: they had to play only guaranteed contracts, they would all
Speaker 1: be able to do it. They would all be fine. Well,
Speaker 1: you don't know that, I'm not. I'm saying how then,
Speaker 1: also Davante Adams, Tyreek Killer moved. It's it's something We're
Speaker 1: going to see how it plays out. It has something
Speaker 1: to do with the money. When you guarantee money has
Speaker 1: to be put aside. In s Crow, there there's a
Speaker 1: whole thing financial side of this story that the Browns
Speaker 1: move is unlocked. And I just wonder what that Joe
Speaker 1: Burrow justin Herbert, those are two names that I think
Speaker 1: of ownership that is either cheap or ownership that doesn't
Speaker 1: have a lot of money compared to these other owners.
Speaker 1: What does that mean for Bengals fans and Chargers fans
Speaker 1: In a couple of years, it's on the radar. Why
Speaker 1: did Wes walk away from the Bengals? Many reasons, but
Speaker 1: I mean, but ownership in the whole structure that you know,
Speaker 1: handing on, handing it down to your son. I just
Speaker 1: feel like with the way the cap space is going
Speaker 1: up in all these TV deals and what's happening with
Speaker 1: the NFL, they're all so scenely wealthy, good business being
Speaker 1: an owner, like, I just don't buy that. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: something that can spend more than others, and they've already
Speaker 1: been doing that, but I just don't buy that they'll
Speaker 1: be in trouble. All right, let's hit a couple of
Speaker 1: things here before we get to our friend Josh Norris.
Speaker 1: UH rap sheet had this also Mary Kay Cabot that
Speaker 1: the Panthers are the leaders in the clubhouse for Baker Mayfield.
Speaker 1: This kind of popped up Friday afternoon. Greg got me
Speaker 1: nervous when we already had taped our Friday TV show, Uh,
Speaker 1: and you were driving to Vegas. But it all worked out,
Speaker 1: No no deal happened. I wonder like, well, I didn't
Speaker 1: know that we weren't supposed to go until until that
Speaker 1: morning when I was leaving the building. And at that point, Dan,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to come back and marks and you're
Speaker 1: like in the Homo Hobbi desert. At that point, the
Speaker 1: kids and uh Emco were going to the BTS show
Speaker 1: at Allegian Stadium and we were getting in that car.
Speaker 1: I was now gonna waits. I'm not I'm not the
Speaker 1: judging here for that. That is the right play, but
Speaker 1: it almost got me nervous. But the Athletics Joe person
Speaker 1: also reported that Baker Mayfield is quote not the only
Speaker 1: guy on the list for the Panthers. I'm wondering, Mark, what,
Speaker 1: why would the Panthers at this point or anyone goes
Speaker 1: trade for Baker now? Would it just wait till after
Speaker 1: the draft? I don't I get that there may be
Speaker 1: you know, interest. I would say this is probably a
Speaker 1: Baker Mayfield camp push um more than it is the
Speaker 1: Panthers telling everyone how much we want Baker Mayfield, who
Speaker 1: has the exact same eighteen million dollar cap hit is
Speaker 1: Sam Donald. The Browns would have to take I think
Speaker 1: a big chunk of that money to move and no
Speaker 1: matter what. But I don't know why you wouldn't just
Speaker 1: wait until after the first round if you're the Panthers
Speaker 1: in a courter, I don't get the sense that they're
Speaker 1: in love with the draft a bull quarterback right now.
Speaker 1: But let's say someone falls to them. You've got a
Speaker 1: guy you can bring in on a rookie contract, and
Speaker 1: you don't go for Baker Mayfield if you're out of
Speaker 1: luck or you're waiting to try to get them later
Speaker 1: and you're and you're sitting there with Sam Donald. Maybe
Speaker 1: to save jobs, you try to get someone. But I
Speaker 1: but I can't find anything more depressing him. Verse Baker
Speaker 1: Mayfield in a quarterback competition on the Panthers after we
Speaker 1: both thought Dan that they would save our franchises. It's
Speaker 1: it tells you don't well, don't get too quite whoever
Speaker 1: you are with this draft coming up, chill a little bit.
Speaker 1: The most scenarios turn did have Sam Donald was in
Speaker 1: this draft, he would be the best player. So would
Speaker 1: Baker Mayfield, like by leaps and leaps and bounds in
Speaker 1: terms of as a prospect when when he was coming out,
Speaker 1: Baker Mayfield would whip Sam Donald's but in a cam competition.
Speaker 1: First of all, Josh is a Carolina fan of Carolina
Speaker 1: native Josh Norris. She's coming out, so maybe we should
Speaker 1: ask him. But he's got a pretty strong theory about
Speaker 1: what the Panthers are going to do. And I think
Speaker 1: to your point, why give away that they're not going
Speaker 1: to draft a quarterback by getting Baker Mayfield. Now, wait,
Speaker 1: you know what, even if they're not drafting a quarterback,
Speaker 1: wait until that happens. And I agree, what does that mean?
Speaker 1: Leader in the clubhouse? Like what they offered a six
Speaker 1: or they said, mate will probably offer a six if
Speaker 1: we don't take a quarterback, were willing to pay his money.
Speaker 1: I think it will happen day two of the There
Speaker 1: is no clubhouse in that scenario. Also, I we don't
Speaker 1: need to even go down this road because it's over.
Speaker 1: But I think if you would have put Sam Donald
Speaker 1: on those Browns team, he would have had some success.
Speaker 1: I want to be so easy to tell who's the
Speaker 1: better player. I disagree, but but that's that's a conversation. Well,
Speaker 1: everyone is agreement that Donald can't play now, but look
Speaker 1: where he went last year. Also, he still has never
Speaker 1: really gotten a chance. It was but I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: not saying he's a player. But Baker had a way
Speaker 1: better set up in Cleveland that I can. I think
Speaker 1: at some point you can watch three thousand, four thousand
Speaker 1: snaps and know if that guy can play or not.
Speaker 1: It's like Teddy Bridgewater was in that same situation as
Speaker 1: Sam Donald the year before. It looked a lot different.
Speaker 1: And and and no one is banging the drawing other than
Speaker 1: me that Teddy is like some great starter, like it
Speaker 1: looked a lot different. I don't. I think Donald is
Speaker 1: someone that the draft community, a big chunk of them,
Speaker 1: latched onto him hard, and they have. It's been hard
Speaker 1: for people let go of the idea that he isn't
Speaker 1: still a starting quarterback. At some point we shall see,
Speaker 1: because I believe they will end up fighting each other.
Speaker 1: It's going to be Greek tragedy. Alright, moving on, time
Speaker 1: for news and notes presented by up work, where you
Speaker 1: can build a team that will build your business. Learn
Speaker 1: more at up work dot com. Alright, Stephan Gilmore, former
Speaker 1: gray beard, well always a gray beard, he has now
Speaker 1: found a real team. It is the Indianapolis Colts who
Speaker 1: come to terms on a contract agreement with the veteran cornerback,
Speaker 1: former defensive player of the Year. The deal is worth
Speaker 1: around twenty three million. It's a two year contract. Uh.
Speaker 1: This was a secondary greg that graded out well last
Speaker 1: year on PF for instance, But certainly Gilmore provides a
Speaker 1: shot in the arm, even at age thirty one, he
Speaker 1: remains a guy that is more than capable. And they
Speaker 1: sent rock gests in away, who had been playing well
Speaker 1: at the end of the year. Uh, and now they
Speaker 1: replaced him with Gilmore, who eventually got his money. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm sure at some point he thought he was going
Speaker 1: to do better than two for twenty three, and I
Speaker 1: think he got about seventeen guarantee. But that's about what
Speaker 1: I would have guessed he would have gotten in the
Speaker 1: first place. He's thirty two years old, hasn't played much
Speaker 1: in the last two years. Was solid when he played
Speaker 1: for Carolina, but barely had any games where he had
Speaker 1: more than thirty five snaps because I think he was
Speaker 1: trying to get healthy and get to the end of
Speaker 1: the season. Uh, and he was on a limited snap count.
Speaker 1: So it's a It's a good move by them, and
Speaker 1: it's a reminder. I think there's a lot of free
Speaker 1: agents left, including Honey Badger, that actually are going to
Speaker 1: get pretty good contracts when they do sign. There's a
Speaker 1: decent amount of teams that have calv space left, and
Speaker 1: they realized there's no point in rolling it over every
Speaker 1: year like the Colts have done. I feel like that's
Speaker 1: a waste of resources and teams are kind of smartening
Speaker 1: up Chris Ballard. This is when he has talked about
Speaker 1: wanting to attack the market for this kind of deal,
Speaker 1: this kind of player. They recruited him really hard. They
Speaker 1: view him as a huge leader and Gus Bradley, Um,
Speaker 1: it's his it's Gus Bradley type of cornerback who and
Speaker 1: I think fits in really well with Kenny Moore and
Speaker 1: the rest of the guys their lineup on defense, Darius Leonard,
Speaker 1: they traded for Yenni Conglaquay to Forrest Buckner, Bobby Okki
Speaker 1: Quitty Pay and you add Gilmore. I mean, this is
Speaker 1: a solid defense that I think sets up Gus Bradley
Speaker 1: to you know, succeed out of the gate. I think
Speaker 1: that Steven Stephen Holder tweeted this um and I agree
Speaker 1: a lot. I agree with it that Chris Ballard is
Speaker 1: good at his job. And yes, he got the he
Speaker 1: got the Carson Wentz moved wrong. There's no way around that.
Speaker 1: But I give him credit for realizing it along with
Speaker 1: ownership it seems, and getting out of that quickly. So
Speaker 1: they get Wentz out of the building for two third
Speaker 1: round picks. They get Matt Ryan for just one third
Speaker 1: round pick. They got rock Yes Sin out and got
Speaker 1: a proven ed rusher and returned, and now your sin
Speaker 1: gets replaced with a former defensive player of the Year.
Speaker 1: So I think the Colts. When we had a conversation
Speaker 1: earlier in the off season about the Colts and where
Speaker 1: they staid, it felt like they were really a tough
Speaker 1: spot considering how hot they got at one point during
Speaker 1: the season, and it didn't seem a lot to be
Speaker 1: a lot of optimism. I don't know what Matt Ryan
Speaker 1: has left, but I think you're gonna enter this season
Speaker 1: with with some optimism that I wasn't expecting a month
Speaker 1: or six weeks ago. So I think they've had, on
Speaker 1: balance a pretty solid off season. They might they might
Speaker 1: not be done. There's still second in effective cap space,
Speaker 1: and like I said, I really think teams have gotten
Speaker 1: to the point where they realized rolling over all this
Speaker 1: money is just not trying hard enough. And you know
Speaker 1: who has the most cap space now in the league
Speaker 1: effective cap space by decent amount. The Carolina Panthers can
Speaker 1: just slide in that old Baker Mayfield, you know, just slide.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, what is it doing for you. You
Speaker 1: gotta you gotta tell all your grandchildren. And I had
Speaker 1: one chance at me and a head coach. Right, that's
Speaker 1: how this happened, I think. But it's like it's not
Speaker 1: doing anything for you, you you might as well use it.
Speaker 1: Why not? You know, if you're the cults. Odell Beckham
Speaker 1: I think still sits out there because they need a
Speaker 1: wide receiver they go into the traff with. That is
Speaker 1: a huge need. M That was News and Notes presented
Speaker 1: by up work, the world's work marketplace. Learn more at
Speaker 1: upwork dot com. Before we bring in Josh Norris, did
Speaker 1: you have any takeaways? Mark, I know the usfl UM
Speaker 1: launched this weekend. I've noticed by the we had having
Speaker 1: Silva on the show last week, and uh, he's given
Speaker 1: it the old over, established the run, given it the
Speaker 1: old a f treatment where they're all over the USFLS
Speaker 1: launch um. Similarly, you were that way this weekend, as
Speaker 1: I understand. I watched about about an hour of it total.
Speaker 1: But uh, I did notice that guys like Paxton lynch
Speaker 1: Um showed up on the Michigan Panthers and that that
Speaker 1: Panthers team had nine fumbles in their loss. If there's
Speaker 1: a worse Panthers than the one that we're just talking about.
Speaker 1: There is well, at least out of the gate. The
Speaker 1: thing though, I found it fun to watch. It wasn't
Speaker 1: like awful or anything. It had. There was some good play,
Speaker 1: some up and down moments. But they have like they'll
Speaker 1: follow you'll like this from like from like. They have
Speaker 1: a drone kicker cam that when you kick a field
Speaker 1: goal like this, drone follows it towards the gold post.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit m nausea inducing. I think they
Speaker 1: need to work on it to some degree, but it's
Speaker 1: watchable and it's it's I think some of these guys
Speaker 1: are going to end up in camps obviously, because the
Speaker 1: league totally misses a developmental league. And it's way better,
Speaker 1: way better, I think, audition than sitting on someone's practice
Speaker 1: squad right now for some of them. But then you
Speaker 1: but then you're getting some hot mess scenarios in there too.
Speaker 1: But like the old New Jersey generals when I became
Speaker 1: a fan when the USFL melted, they used to tell
Speaker 1: all the same the same names and stuff, so it's nostalgic.
Speaker 1: It's strange too, because I don't know if they like
Speaker 1: it's not the same people. I don't even know if
Speaker 1: that there's some legal thing where they might not even
Speaker 1: have permission. They're just like calling at the USFL. Well,
Speaker 1: that's like, has nothing to do with the old thing.
Speaker 1: I want to I want one of these two work.
Speaker 1: This doesn't seem like it has anything, uh set up
Speaker 1: better than the previous ones that didn't work. In fact,
Speaker 1: it seems like it's not set up as well. The
Speaker 1: one thing that has is broadcast agreements. It's on Foxy
Speaker 1: and NBC at the same time. What that that's kind
Speaker 1: of amazing all their games in the same adium. Kind
Speaker 1: of strange. Yeah, And there was like a weather delay
Speaker 1: for the most Monday night here because it was rocked
Speaker 1: out of existence during the weekend because of weather. That's
Speaker 1: getting a lot out of the fan base there to
Speaker 1: just go to games all the time. Get comfortable, guys. Well,
Speaker 1: the Eastern Sunday kickoff was in front of an essentially
Speaker 1: empty stadium and people kind of came in for the
Speaker 1: second half side. And by the way, if you want
Speaker 1: to learn more about the USFL, about a decade ago,
Speaker 1: UM thirty, the ESPN series had a special on UH
Speaker 1: the league called Small potatoes. Who killed the USFL. The
Speaker 1: answer was a former president. Yes it was this country,
Speaker 1: but I won't let you know who it is. And
Speaker 1: it wasn't Richard Nixon or Gerald Ford. That those are
Speaker 1: the ants games Ford gets to zero. You have to
Speaker 1: piece the rest of it together. That's what's happening in
Speaker 1: the news, all right. Coming up next, Josh Norris talking
Speaker 1: draft after the break, a responsible break, Welcome back to
Speaker 1: around the NFL, joining us now former bricklayer. Now he's
Speaker 1: doing his own thing at the Underdock Network dot com
Speaker 1: content strategy and production and one hell of a mock drafter.
Speaker 1: It's Josh Norris, that's a body and Mark greg third
Speaker 1: time caller, longtime listening to beautiful people. So glad to
Speaker 1: join you. Oh, it's great to have you, Josh. We've
Speaker 1: already at the top of the show. And by the way,
Speaker 1: excellent lighting over there at the Underdog Network with the
Speaker 1: exposed brick behind you that your house are you're at
Speaker 1: work right now. This is a lovely Brooklyn brick. I
Speaker 1: mean that is Americans. You're filming a Dungeons and Dragon
Speaker 1: special or something. It's intriguing. Starts when the sun goes down.
Speaker 1: Mark you look like you're taking a portrait um for
Speaker 1: like uh an off Broadway show that debuting in Nashville. Well,
Speaker 1: actually Josh Norris playing the role of Hamlet. The last
Speaker 1: thing on this Josh, but it's really it has to
Speaker 1: happen now that it's in my head. Can you do
Speaker 1: the thing where you're kind of looking into the middle
Speaker 1: distance with like a half smile. Let me make sure
Speaker 1: I love this perfect great podcast audio content. Right, you
Speaker 1: can check it out on your YouTube. Everybody, Josh, listen,
Speaker 1: you did it. You did the damn thing last year.
Speaker 1: You want to talk about brand building, you want to
Speaker 1: talk talk about establishing where you land in this landscape
Speaker 1: of the draft mock drafts. You nailed sixteen of thirty
Speaker 1: two first round picks last year, and that's brilliant. The
Speaker 1: entire top ten, the entire and that is something is
Speaker 1: how is that possible? And you wrote and a great
Speaker 1: piece where you did your mock draft one point oh
Speaker 1: that you have to nail that top ten and then
Speaker 1: find quote random player and team fits from number sixteen on.
Speaker 1: So there's a strategy. And I'll also say that, like
Speaker 1: I was watching your live you know, YouTube show, and
Speaker 1: I like how your process. It's logic based but investigative
Speaker 1: in nature, and you know there's knowledge involved that you need,
Speaker 1: but also bread crumbs and red string dot connecting. Like
Speaker 1: how you know that Ron Rivera doesn't like to leave
Speaker 1: his house, so when he does, that matters to the
Speaker 1: commander's draft board. Really bravo, Josh, Well, it's all wire tapping,
Speaker 1: that's all it is. Dan. I will add though, and
Speaker 1: I think you know this from growing up with Jets.
Speaker 1: Mark knows that us from growing up the Browns. Like
Speaker 1: if there's some level of cohesion in terms of decision
Speaker 1: makers on a team, like you kind of get to
Speaker 1: know their process a little bit. And you know, when
Speaker 1: I was seven years old, the Panthers came to Charlotte
Speaker 1: and I just became obsessed with them and I started
Speaker 1: to kind of figure out how they built their roster,
Speaker 1: which directions they were going with, whether it be you know,
Speaker 1: Marty Hernie, Dave Kettleman and now Scott Fitterer or so.
Speaker 1: All I thought was, well, one, let me ask some
Speaker 1: beat writers in the top ten, but also let me
Speaker 1: found like the Josh Norris is from across the other
Speaker 1: fans of those teams, right, ones that are obsessed from
Speaker 1: a young age. And see what they think lack top
Speaker 1: nine the top ten picks. This is what happens when
Speaker 1: you get an underdog fantasy ad that place pretty often.
Speaker 1: Just saw it on NFL Network last weekend. It's basically
Speaker 1: been going. It was sometimes on Thursday Night Football and
Speaker 1: like it's pretty good, Josh places, Yes, getting big head here.
Speaker 1: I do have to ask you this because the mock
Speaker 1: draft um community, a subset of humanity, is so competitive
Speaker 1: that when you nail nine nine out of ten picks,
Speaker 1: are you are there? You know, veiled threats are there? Um?
Speaker 1: Have you dodged assassination attempts? It sounds like you're a
Speaker 1: hated person through a window. Silva is not enjoying you,
Speaker 1: like celebrating and spiking the football this whole pre draft
Speaker 1: process season. That is true. They think, actually get rid
Speaker 1: of the bit when they just carry on bits, you know,
Speaker 1: for three years. At this point, Mark, I'll give you
Speaker 1: a honest answer. I now work for a fantasy sports
Speaker 1: company that gives away millions of dollars to people who win. Um,
Speaker 1: when I hit sixteen and thirty two, the greatest mock
Speaker 1: draft ever of like eighty four million, that I've been published.
Speaker 1: I turned to my girlfriend and I tell her that
Speaker 1: this achievement, a lifelong dream has happened. And she asked,
Speaker 1: what did you win then? Because you company gives away
Speaker 1: all this stuff, right, absolutely, zero zero dollars in my
Speaker 1: bank account of all this. Of course that happens to me.
Speaker 1: I finally achieved greatness. But you know, you could be
Speaker 1: put some money up for this. You don't work at
Speaker 1: the NFL. You're not restricted like us, so you could
Speaker 1: have been putting your own UH cat shot on the
Speaker 1: line here and you would have done well if if
Speaker 1: you had done that. That's not what it's about, Greg.
Speaker 1: What it's about for Josh is the work and the
Speaker 1: reward is she's still your girlfriend. She's about away from so,
Speaker 1: I said, I, you know, seemed unimpressed with the feet.
Speaker 1: Hey baby, Well what anyway? All right, let's get into it. Greg,
Speaker 1: you had you had an idea here based off some
Speaker 1: over unders who provided these over under Well, we can
Speaker 1: go off the fan duel since that's an official UH
Speaker 1: sponsor of us if we want. But I thought it'd
Speaker 1: be fun to go through some over unders because you're
Speaker 1: good at Josh obviously getting a feel of where these
Speaker 1: guys are going to go. Uh, and it'll just give
Speaker 1: us a chance to kind of talk about each one
Speaker 1: of these players. One of the guys who I think
Speaker 1: was really noteworthy on your mock draft falling far was
Speaker 1: Kyle Hamilton's all the way to eighteen. His over under
Speaker 1: now is all the way up at least on fandal
Speaker 1: to ten and a half. Um. This was a guy
Speaker 1: that was in the top five almost exclusively in the
Speaker 1: early mock drafter days of March. Obviously he struggled with
Speaker 1: the forty time and pro day that doesn't go well. Uh,
Speaker 1: and maybe that's why we're seeing him slipping some mocks.
Speaker 1: Washington picks at eleven, which is a potential landing spot,
Speaker 1: which is why that number is at ten and a half.
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts there? I just don't consider safety
Speaker 1: from a team's perspective like a pillar position. And this
Speaker 1: top ten is loaded with, you know, players at those
Speaker 1: cornerstone spots offensive tackle, pass rusher, cornerback, heck even even
Speaker 1: wide receiver and cal Hamilton's, like you said, number eleven
Speaker 1: does make a lot of sense, but again, it's just
Speaker 1: serving where those teams and who's already on the roster
Speaker 1: and what the investments have been in the top ten already,
Speaker 1: and I don't necessarily see it. I could side maybe
Speaker 1: with like the Minnesota Vikings, if they think like their
Speaker 1: safety room was getting a little bit older, I could
Speaker 1: look at even that. Then that's over. To answer your question,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm leaning the over on tin half has
Speaker 1: nothing to do with cal Himton as the player. I
Speaker 1: think it's more of the position. Despite you know, more
Speaker 1: and more too high shells that we hear you guys
Speaker 1: and everyone talking about all year long, seventeen one of
Speaker 1: the greatest safety prospects of all time. Right, I agree
Speaker 1: with you, and and so just to answer your question quickly,
Speaker 1: over to in half is where i'd be leading it.
Speaker 1: I've got to ask you, because you're leading the way.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're starting to hear more buzz that Malik
Speaker 1: Willis is visiting with the Lions. Some wonder if that
Speaker 1: could be their second pick or the first. He's not
Speaker 1: going to be there when they pick second, obviously, are
Speaker 1: you looking at Malik Willis and thinking, uh, look at
Speaker 1: this is there's a chance And by second I mean
Speaker 1: their second pick after the first round, right, Like, do
Speaker 1: you think that you have a number two Detroit, that
Speaker 1: this is a reality that's becoming more and more. What
Speaker 1: is over under Malik will nine point five, which feels
Speaker 1: steeply too rich. I think he's going before that in
Speaker 1: my book. Okay, So the more I get like diving
Speaker 1: into this, and the closer we get, the more I
Speaker 1: think that like the Pittsburgh Sailors at pick number twenties,
Speaker 1: the first team to take a quarterback, and they kind
Speaker 1: of showed their hand last year with Nazi Harris and
Speaker 1: that pick was you know, solidifiding stone early on um
Speaker 1: I firmly and I think you guys just finished talking
Speaker 1: about this. Baker Mayfield or Jimmy Garoppolo with the Panthers
Speaker 1: at number six, that seems far more likely. Maybe the
Speaker 1: Seattle Seahawks. The last time they selected, you know, near
Speaker 1: this range was pick number fifteen. That was a complete
Speaker 1: out of nowhere selection. And then they've done you know,
Speaker 1: similar things throughout this time over the years. So the
Speaker 1: closer we get, the more I think that. Obviously, with
Speaker 1: the last year of general manager in Pittsburgh, he has
Speaker 1: viewed how he rose, how he Alsik news to excuse
Speaker 1: me what he did in Baltimore and said, look, he
Speaker 1: left a lasting legacy with Lamar Jackson and his quarterback.
Speaker 1: I woant to do that here with Mitch Robinsky and
Speaker 1: then the rookie quarterback at number twenty, and that could
Speaker 1: easily be moliqu willis there at that selection. You have,
Speaker 1: I like this going a little deeper into the first
Speaker 1: round with the team I think is the best team
Speaker 1: in football right now, and you're doing like your strategy
Speaker 1: match team needs with players on the board. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of smoke connecting the Bills to a running back.
Speaker 1: You have Breece Hall Iowa State going overall. You know,
Speaker 1: it does make me think about what was the last
Speaker 1: unstoppable offense that said, oh, let's take a luxury piece
Speaker 1: in the backfield to kind of bring this thing all together.
Speaker 1: Clyde Edwards a layer to the Chiefs, and that hasn't
Speaker 1: quite worked out. But that doesn't mean that another team
Speaker 1: that has a similar ceiling can't try the same thing.
Speaker 1: The Bills they're looking for that last piece. Where is
Speaker 1: he at Breece Hall on this list, He's done. I'm
Speaker 1: the fan duel interesting, So you tell us more about
Speaker 1: your thinking there. It's exactly what you're saying, Dan, and
Speaker 1: I think part of that is with the clarity layer
Speaker 1: selection at what picked thirty two a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: if he had just pivoted over to Jonathan Taylor, I
Speaker 1: think we'll be praising that selection, right. And so really,
Speaker 1: these teams only have to be honest with us through
Speaker 1: their draft picks and through their wallets. Like you hear
Speaker 1: this all the time when they go up there at
Speaker 1: the combine and they just lie to you over and
Speaker 1: over and over again. They just lied to you. And
Speaker 1: so with the Bills, they paid j. D. Mckissic handsomely.
Speaker 1: That was a contract that was agreed to. That is
Speaker 1: the type of of talent that I think it is
Speaker 1: kind of tough to find a hybrid running backs last
Speaker 1: wide receiver who thrives on explosive plays and in the
Speaker 1: receiving game. And so there aren't gonna be many of
Speaker 1: those in this draft class. Maybe a couple later on,
Speaker 1: like James Cook Dalvin Cook's brother. But if this team
Speaker 1: wants to make a strength even stronger in the Buffalo
Speaker 1: Bills and had some true explosion on top of you
Speaker 1: know what, some positive things they've seen a little bit
Speaker 1: at their running backs about briest Hall makes a ton
Speaker 1: of sense, but I wouldn't you know, I would assume
Speaker 1: Greg that like the over under in terms of running
Speaker 1: back is a half, right, Like you either are in
Speaker 1: and back going around one or you're not. And if
Speaker 1: one is, it's definitely gonna be briests Hall because his
Speaker 1: vision explosive plays are really something special. Right. It's still
Speaker 1: early in the in the process. There's like there's things
Speaker 1: up about first running backs being selected, different things like that.
Speaker 1: Can I just say, Mark and Josh little housekeeping here internal,
Speaker 1: but we feel comfortable with you. Mark. You know, the
Speaker 1: NFL has some strict, you know, guardrails with what we
Speaker 1: can access inside the building they do. I try to
Speaker 1: access this link that has the over unders and I
Speaker 1: got hit with some type of firewall, and yet Greg
Speaker 1: breaks through, and again it's asking questions where fact I'm
Speaker 1: also broken through. I think you have a WiFi issued
Speaker 1: Dan that's you need to be connect. So we talked
Speaker 1: about I had to get off the internal one. If
Speaker 1: you sign into the guest WiFi, it works, which is
Speaker 1: crazy because we're taking, we being the NFL, tens of
Speaker 1: millions of dollars from these companies one little note. In
Speaker 1: the old days, when you go to a site that
Speaker 1: was illegal on any form, not you know, gambling or
Speaker 1: beyond inside the building, a big NFL official would show
Speaker 1: up blowing the whistle. This is act that that is
Speaker 1: a that is a true I see, I'm not. We
Speaker 1: can't get into this stuff, um, but if we could, Uh,
Speaker 1: if what I was in Vegas this week instead of
Speaker 1: just walking right past that sports book, which is what
Speaker 1: I did right back up to the room. Good boy,
Speaker 1: But just look, I didn't forget it. Ignore it doesn't exist.
Speaker 1: You're gonna walk the kids to bats and then I'm
Speaker 1: gonna walk back. Well, Plus an NFL employee will be
Speaker 1: shot on site if you walk inside Saturday night. I
Speaker 1: think Desmond Ritter going in the first round feels like
Speaker 1: the surest of sure things that right now has like
Speaker 1: even odds. Essentially, his over under is the end of
Speaker 1: the first round, and I feel like the closer we
Speaker 1: get to the draft, the things that people like about
Speaker 1: Desmond Ritter um matches up with what NFL decision makers like, like, oh,
Speaker 1: he changed the culture. He's a winner, Like he's impressive
Speaker 1: in the room, which is which is all great, Like
Speaker 1: that stuff matters he won and all that, but it
Speaker 1: also matches up with what all the tape heeds love like.
Speaker 1: Of all the guys in this draft, I think he's
Speaker 1: the guy that tapeds look at and say, Okay, he's
Speaker 1: going through his progressions, Okay, he's showing a little bit
Speaker 1: of anticipation here. Okay, I don't know how good he's
Speaker 1: gonna be, but he's athletic, so at least there's some
Speaker 1: upside there. He's an NFL quarterback. If there's one quarterback
Speaker 1: in this draft that, like we sort of know will
Speaker 1: at least be on a contract eight years from now
Speaker 1: on a team, it's Desmond Ritter. And that's why that
Speaker 1: over for getting into the first round and and believing
Speaker 1: that he will get taken maybe first out of all
Speaker 1: the quarterbacks, but certainly in the top thirty, seems like
Speaker 1: a very strong pick to me, what do you agree?
Speaker 1: And to make this a bigger point, I think because
Speaker 1: you know, draft season starts back in December and January,
Speaker 1: and a lot of these lists from really great people
Speaker 1: come out, they have, you know, rankings that really firmly
Speaker 1: at let's say, can you pick it, Malik willis above
Speaker 1: the rest and even at the tackle spot. It's a
Speaker 1: give Kwana and Evan Nel above Charles Cross once you
Speaker 1: get to draft weekend. Part of the reason we love
Speaker 1: it is because they're shock. There's all, there's unpredictability other
Speaker 1: than my mock draft, and then that's when all the
Speaker 1: fun happens. And so it wouldn't be shocking to see
Speaker 1: Desmond Red the first quarterback off this list. I think
Speaker 1: Matt Corrall has a chance of being the first quarterback
Speaker 1: off this list. The big difference here between this group
Speaker 1: and I'm sure you've had someone talked about this already
Speaker 1: and other ones, is like there's no one that does
Speaker 1: everything well. You know, des inaccuracy is prevalent everywhere. Matt
Speaker 1: Corrall is like a confident Marcus Mariotta in terms of
Speaker 1: his r p O s and only ran about like
Speaker 1: eighty eight snaps of three to seven step drops and
Speaker 1: that's about it. Can you pick it? At the NFL level?
Speaker 1: Is going to have to win inside of structure, working
Speaker 1: through his progressions, but he never did that really during
Speaker 1: his time at Pittsburgh. He wanted to escape the pod.
Speaker 1: Get to pick it Love's and then Malik Willis is
Speaker 1: someone who has fantastic ath let us is m almost
Speaker 1: the anti Lamar Jackson terms of love throwing downfield and
Speaker 1: outside the numbers, but the middle of the field is
Speaker 1: like a complete blind spot. So any one of those
Speaker 1: and I think, really, Greg, what it comes down to
Speaker 1: is these teams are going to fall in love with
Speaker 1: the person of one of these quarterbacks, like build a
Speaker 1: relationship whose last three months with one of these quarterbacks,
Speaker 1: and that's the one they want to attach them to.
Speaker 1: And Ritterer, by all accounts, might be that one that
Speaker 1: was like a long way to say, yeah, I'm not
Speaker 1: loving your theory that much. To that would be I
Speaker 1: think like two and a half quarterbacks is the over
Speaker 1: under right now in round one? I would I would
Speaker 1: take the under on that. Yeah, I think I might too,
Speaker 1: But I think I just like think Ritterer Ridder goes
Speaker 1: top thirty. There's obviously going to be a run on
Speaker 1: wide out once the first comes off the board. Garrett
Speaker 1: Wilson ten point five. There's obviously two great guys from
Speaker 1: Ohio State with Crystal Love too. Is Wilson your number
Speaker 1: one guy? And does he go over under ten point five?
Speaker 1: I've got the Jets sitting there at number ten. I
Speaker 1: like using the decimal ten point five. I like that, Well,
Speaker 1: that's another way to state it. Go ahead, it's mathematically
Speaker 1: accurate on on pick ten. And really, what is it
Speaker 1: picked for their other first round selection? Yes, I think
Speaker 1: it says. I think there's a sandwich prop to be
Speaker 1: laid out here that the gent will absolutely take a
Speaker 1: wide receiver with one of those two picks, because they've
Speaker 1: shown their hand throughout all their trials and tribulations in
Speaker 1: this season. They had a deal agreed with for Tyreek Kill.
Speaker 1: They definitely kicked around DK Metcalf. They this is something
Speaker 1: they've been trying to make happen and it hasn't yet,
Speaker 1: so I think this is going to be the road
Speaker 1: they go. And also in on Calvin Ridley potentially a
Speaker 1: Mark Cooper they were possibly in that deal. So once
Speaker 1: against the paper trail that we're following with where these
Speaker 1: teams want invest I think ten at the Jets absolutely
Speaker 1: is a possibility. It wouldn't totally shock me if the
Speaker 1: Jets want to start this wide receiver run and it's
Speaker 1: the number four overall selection. The difference here Mark is
Speaker 1: like all these wide receivers do different stuff, and like
Speaker 1: Garrett Wilson is your true is so ball d you
Speaker 1: up one on one wide receiver, wins with separation, creates separation,
Speaker 1: and then you know sustains it versus like Jamison Williams
Speaker 1: just coming off an injury, who was like true vertical
Speaker 1: juice speed down the field. And then you have the
Speaker 1: other ol House state wide receiver and a few others
Speaker 1: in Drake London at USC, so on and so forth.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm with you ten and eleven. I would
Speaker 1: be surprised if by that point we don't have two
Speaker 1: wide receivers. But ted and has an interesting number there,
Speaker 1: I would think he might. I would just say go
Speaker 1: because it just would be surprising if receivers were taken
Speaker 1: before that. So you're almost certainly there could be a
Speaker 1: surprise since maybe at eight as the Opkins, maybe, but
Speaker 1: you're in a draft where it seems like five or
Speaker 1: six different teams might have five or six different guys
Speaker 1: as their top receiver. You're kind of buying in that
Speaker 1: Garrett Wilson is sort of a consensus one which I
Speaker 1: don't think is is really the consensus. So I would
Speaker 1: just take your chances that maybe he ends up slipping
Speaker 1: and not be that ten. I think it's really saucy
Speaker 1: in general, some of the dot connecting you've done here
Speaker 1: with the wide receivers, because you got Jamison Williams to
Speaker 1: the Chargers at seventeen and I love that, and you
Speaker 1: wrote about make a strength stronger Mike Williams with Keenan
Speaker 1: Allen and Jamison Williams, we are on fire. And then
Speaker 1: you do the move that you know this was. Ah,
Speaker 1: it's a good dot connect because what are the Packers
Speaker 1: gonna do here? You know, they just they just went
Speaker 1: out and they got Sammy Watkins, but then a report
Speaker 1: came out that he's not even starting to make the roster.
Speaker 1: Obviously they need more uh, and you have them double
Speaker 1: dipping with Treylon Burke's and Christian Watson. It makes sense
Speaker 1: because they have to kind of go in big here.
Speaker 1: I feel like to justify moving Aaron Rodgers, big guy
Speaker 1: out of the room. And you have to hit on
Speaker 1: one of these guys to make them a credible Super
Speaker 1: Bowl offense. So if my life is now devoted to
Speaker 1: retaining my title of mock draft stardom, I have to
Speaker 1: hit on one of these wide receivers at the end
Speaker 1: of round one. And we all firmly believe at least
Speaker 1: for one of these spots for the Packers, they will
Speaker 1: take one. So yes, you mentioned Traylon Burks at twenty
Speaker 1: two with their second first round pick. I had them
Speaker 1: taking Christian Watson coming out of North Dakota State, and
Speaker 1: the two are very different. I mean, Traylon Burks was
Speaker 1: kind of manufactured touch like player. And if we're splitting
Speaker 1: Davante Adams in half, which is a dangerous thing to do,
Speaker 1: um he was worth in the NFL in his screens
Speaker 1: last year. Immoral to do that. Sports don't matter that
Speaker 1: if you if you're gonna split him into point five,
Speaker 1: you gotta better realize there is some legal josh. Not
Speaker 1: everyone is just for you to play your little lab games.
Speaker 1: So he had a lot of manufactured touches and r
Speaker 1: p O s and so Traylon Burks, that's the area
Speaker 1: where he might shine with this offense. And if we're
Speaker 1: trying to replace an MVS or a vertical playmaker with
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of athleticism than Christian Watson, who
Speaker 1: did some of that manufacturing touch stuff in North Dakota State,
Speaker 1: would fill that as well. But then you have names
Speaker 1: like sky Moore coming out of Western Michigan. You have
Speaker 1: George Pickens, who really shine during his freshman year at
Speaker 1: Georgia than a time. It took a downturn from there.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, Greg, it's probably what seven six
Speaker 1: and a half wide receivers six point five coming off
Speaker 1: the board there in in round one. Um, I'm starting
Speaker 1: to lean the over, especially DJ. Like DJ thought that
Speaker 1: was the one thing he felt confident was receivers is
Speaker 1: going off fast and fierce because they seem like the
Speaker 1: best players, or at least and the depth of them
Speaker 1: seems like the best. I mean, Traylott Berks maybe has
Speaker 1: a lot of Randall cop to him, a bigger, better version,
Speaker 1: and you're hoping even if you take them in the
Speaker 1: first round. But that that to me makes sense with
Speaker 1: the pack. My buddy Dame Burgler mentioned that he played
Speaker 1: around two d and forty pounds last year, much bigger,
Speaker 1: much chiled down about twenty pounds off of him of
Speaker 1: US two and we'll do it much better next. It
Speaker 1: is unlikely, let's be real here, that you report to
Speaker 1: your significant other after this draft that you've nailed sixteen again,
Speaker 1: that it's the thing if you're setting up that this
Speaker 1: is what you're doing. You're so I was ask you,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put your over under let's be real thirteen
Speaker 1: and a half point Well no, but how much this
Speaker 1: is your this is your claim to fame. Well, he
Speaker 1: has to bang me over because he's trying to sell
Speaker 1: subscriptions and all sorts of things. Well, you know, we're
Speaker 1: just for the people. It's free content out there, Dan,
Speaker 1: I will say this to take it upon me like
Speaker 1: the seventy two Dolphins from here on out, as long
Speaker 1: as no one brave, yes, setting yourself up for disappointment
Speaker 1: to try to repeat as that guy is almost it's
Speaker 1: it's almost impossible. So that's maybe part of the reason
Speaker 1: why he's been so ostentatious with Bragg. He's enjoying it
Speaker 1: now while he can. He knows it's it's all gonna end.
Speaker 1: It's like Miss Universe. No one cares once you get
Speaker 1: to the end of that year. But you've got to
Speaker 1: enjoy that one year going around the world, and that's it.
Speaker 1: We won Best New Sports Podcast Podcast for Apple in
Speaker 1: two thousand twelve. I don't think we've We've won maybe
Speaker 1: one other awards since then, But you never take that
Speaker 1: away from us. We're always the best new sports podcast
Speaker 1: of two thousand. That's you, Like, nothing could ever change
Speaker 1: that you once got half of an entire first round, right,
Speaker 1: I do want to know. I'm curious because I would
Speaker 1: be the same way. Um, I'm not saying you are,
Speaker 1: but maybe you were. You got nine out of ten
Speaker 1: in the first round. Who is the team that banged
Speaker 1: you and that you declare vengeance upon for keeping you
Speaker 1: from going ten for ten? Uh? Last year is the
Speaker 1: Denver Broncos. The Denver Broncos took Patrick sir tan and
Speaker 1: I had them taking Rashawn Slaver. But yeah, not gonna tend.
Speaker 1: It really is all about and so we can open
Speaker 1: up the formula here while we're in the labs them.
Speaker 1: So last year's top ten was pretty easy to pick
Speaker 1: when you consider that there was rarely any you know,
Speaker 1: defensive players considered as high draft prospects, and if they
Speaker 1: were going to be, it was gonna be only two cornerbacks.
Speaker 1: So you basically had five quarterbacks to choose from, three
Speaker 1: wide receivers to choose from, two offensive tackles, and then
Speaker 1: one random tight end and that was it. So like
Speaker 1: the number of picks, basically sorting ten of fifteen players
Speaker 1: versus this year. You have corners, you have edge, you
Speaker 1: have wide receivers, you have maybe a quarterback and maybe not.
Speaker 1: So this year is just there's much fourteen. It's your number.
Speaker 1: I also, I wouldn't walk around demystifying what happened last
Speaker 1: season because you're taking away from your your own myth building.
Speaker 1: We we don't, We'll take that out of the show.
Speaker 1: And you also have the consents one and two were
Speaker 1: locked and loaded. So I'm gonna keep that. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: because we'll come back to the Saturday night. I am
Speaker 1: going to set Josh is over under at and I
Speaker 1: wish I had the data for what he had the
Speaker 1: year before as a return to the average, But I'm
Speaker 1: gonna say I'm gonna set it at eight and a half. Tom.
Speaker 1: That's what I was thinking, even that even that at.
Speaker 1: It's a tough draft, and it's not a shot against you.
Speaker 1: You're obviously uh Studley in this realm. But I think
Speaker 1: it's just gonna be a tough night for the whole
Speaker 1: in an underwhelming selling point. Though for you. I tried
Speaker 1: to lift it up just to say say you're gonna
Speaker 1: do it. No one's gonna know anyway. So before before
Speaker 1: you let you go, I do want to just a
Speaker 1: couple of comments, A couple of comments. I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: Derek Stingley to the Seahawks, I just can see that.
Speaker 1: I just talking talk. That was amazing. I'm just saying,
Speaker 1: I'm giving that an award for the best mock pick
Speaker 1: that you had. The second I saw that, I was
Speaker 1: just like, Oh, yeah, that's that's such a Seahawks type
Speaker 1: of move, Jordan Davis, you have going eight and that's
Speaker 1: the other one, even more than Ridder that to me,
Speaker 1: the over unders still doesn't seem high enough. I think
Speaker 1: it's at thirteen and a half right now, Josh, doesn't.
Speaker 1: It just seem like there's no way the NFL is
Speaker 1: letting him go that far? Just quickly on him. I mean,
Speaker 1: he legitimately is the most athletic prospect to ever enter
Speaker 1: the NFL. Ever in a draft where no one's excited
Speaker 1: about anyone, where Trey Von Walker could go one just
Speaker 1: because people are looking for a home run, so he
Speaker 1: could go top five, I feel like, who the hell knows?
Speaker 1: And we've seen, you know, Derek Brown go top ten
Speaker 1: at Oliver go top ten, at differen Starck quentnin Williams
Speaker 1: go top ten. I really liked a lot of those evaluations.
Speaker 1: And I understand that you know, he played about twenty
Speaker 1: seven snaps per game, But if you want to acquire
Speaker 1: a talent at like six six three forty of Jordan Davis,
Speaker 1: you can't sign that in for agency. This is like
Speaker 1: a new kind of prospect that we've never seen before.
Speaker 1: So I just don't understand and maybe it happens how
Speaker 1: that falls out of top ten when, like you said,
Speaker 1: there's so many questions this year and it's quote unquote
Speaker 1: a poor draft. And then you mentioned you're like Mr
Speaker 1: Panther's expert. Um. I thought you've had a good theory
Speaker 1: about kind of what they're thinking in terms of quartering.
Speaker 1: You you've thought that they were maybe getting Baker this
Speaker 1: whole time, and that the quarterback stuff is smoke. Uh
Speaker 1: and now it's looking as we get closer like that
Speaker 1: that seems correct. But what why do you think that? Oh?
Speaker 1: For a number of reasons, One like that they've missed
Speaker 1: out on veterans these last two years, like that's where
Speaker 1: they put all their eggs. Right, was a Matthew Stafford
Speaker 1: trade and Deshaun Watson trade. Heck, even hoping for Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 1: And I just don't know how a team could bypass
Speaker 1: the evaluations of Justin Fields and Mac Jones and say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: these guys are definitely better this year than they were
Speaker 1: last year. And when you consider that Scott Fitterer traded
Speaker 1: out during his first year as GM four times, and
Speaker 1: this year they don't have a pick in round two
Speaker 1: or round three, and so like having more darts, having
Speaker 1: more selections, and they're gonna get fired if they draft
Speaker 1: a rookie quarterback who can't play right away. Right, so
Speaker 1: where we're a long way from mutual disinterest. Also, I'm wondering, like,
Speaker 1: so they're enamored with what Baker Mayfield has put on
Speaker 1: tape overall, I mean, I don't know if Baker Mayfield
Speaker 1: saves your job either, to be honest, no, but I
Speaker 1: think the chance. This is also a a owner that
Speaker 1: does like to put his fingerprints on things. And while
Speaker 1: the early Teddy Bridgewater experiment was supposed to be a
Speaker 1: two year plan that turned into anyone but Teddy, So
Speaker 1: we bring in Sam and now it's turned into anyone
Speaker 1: but Sam, so now you bring in either Baker Mayfield
Speaker 1: or Jimmy Garoppolo, and it's just very clear that they
Speaker 1: don't want to sit through the growing pains of whatever
Speaker 1: rookie they put in the tough time here for Panthers.
Speaker 1: And then you have it. You have them going after
Speaker 1: offensive line, which is that's kind of like a key
Speaker 1: with everything with that team. If you want any quarterback
Speaker 1: to thrive, you better do a better job up front
Speaker 1: as well. Josh, you said it all and and I
Speaker 1: will say this, you're predicting fourteen. Um, you had sixteen
Speaker 1: last year. I hope you do sixteen again or higher
Speaker 1: because if you can, if you can get to that,
Speaker 1: if you can do two years in a row, you
Speaker 1: could build an entire you you can take everything behind
Speaker 1: a paywall at that point retire, right, Well, you gotta
Speaker 1: cash in one at this point. Yeah, you you have
Speaker 1: to demand Underdog does pay you a million dollar bonus
Speaker 1: like they pay these other things you're doing the I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm sure they're not giving you Are they giving you
Speaker 1: extra for those ads that I see? That's business? You know,
Speaker 1: you're commercials, You're a commercial superstar. You're nailing these mocks
Speaker 1: underdog has to step to the plate, is what I'm
Speaker 1: is I'm saying, but he needs to have sixteen more right.
Speaker 1: They're waiting to see what he does exactly, and the
Speaker 1: a t n Odds makers said at eight and a half.
Speaker 1: But don't take that A is us doubting you. That's
Speaker 1: just some You have to set the odds somewhere. I'm
Speaker 1: hoping you get point five in the draft. Correct again, Mark,
Speaker 1: I appreciate your optimism most of all. I'm on your side, Josh,
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, buddy. Keep up good work, buddy,
Speaker 1: and you check out Josh Norris at Josh Norris and
Speaker 1: at Underdog Fantasy. A delightful conversation, a fun guy and
Speaker 1: obviously knows his stuff all all getting aside, that's really
Speaker 1: good what he did last year and and reading his
Speaker 1: content this year, all that kind of makes sense. Sometimes
Speaker 1: it doesn't follow logic, though, draft night, because all it
Speaker 1: takes his one team to do something insane and everything
Speaker 1: gets what if he gets that would be we'd have
Speaker 1: to bring him on again, because that would be electric.
Speaker 1: I feel like he was, like I'm trying to remember
Speaker 1: when he started at road World. He definitely was one
Speaker 1: of those that where he just kept emailing Evan's silva
Speaker 1: every day until he just like wore him down, and
Speaker 1: Evans how to do it had like was forced to
Speaker 1: hire him. I think he also that's a great thing
Speaker 1: to say about him after No. No, I mean it
Speaker 1: was one of the best moves Evan ever made. He
Speaker 1: recognized that, but it took that sort of persistence and
Speaker 1: just like, never give up, don't ever give up. Mark says.
Speaker 1: I also would say one other thing that ten point
Speaker 1: five when we are talking about picks in the draft,
Speaker 1: is different than points. I don't call point spreads seventeen
Speaker 1: point five. That's seventeen and a half in a college
Speaker 1: wipeout type scenario. But ten point five in this I
Speaker 1: think is is apt. Yeah. No, it was. No, it's
Speaker 1: not wrong. It was just it wasn't It was a
Speaker 1: little unorthodox, jarring to you that, But that's fine. It's
Speaker 1: good to have you back. Marks. It was like last
Speaker 1: week was a nightmare. I was stuck with Greg. I'll
Speaker 1: by myself a great time last week. I'm happy to
Speaker 1: have this job. We will be back on Thursday, and
Speaker 1: we have one more TV show before we go on
Speaker 1: a hiatus on Friday. So if you haven't seen it yet.
Speaker 1: First of all, thanks, yeah, good for you. Thanks your part.
Speaker 1: That's that's cool. But you have one last chance not
Speaker 1: to disappoint us. On Friday, the around the NFL broadcast
Speaker 1: on NFL Network. Check your local listings. Uh, we got
Speaker 1: a text Shreeger. I don't know if Sugar knows that
Speaker 1: we're on California time, because every once in a while,
Speaker 1: Strigg's will send a text at you know, four in
Speaker 1: the morning. But it's nice to wake up to it.
Speaker 1: And uh and he's, oh, your show was on at
Speaker 1: three am today? It was, And it's Monday for a
Speaker 1: show we taped Friday morning, three m are it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's maybe a little bit out of time at that point,
Speaker 1: but still it's good to be on TV. I guess
Speaker 1: I think it got such a response over the weekend,
Speaker 1: just like, Wow, these two guys are hot. Let's just
Speaker 1: put him put him on NonStop until bit baby. All right,
Speaker 1: Thank you everybody. Thank you to Ricky x Erica, You're welcome, guys.
Speaker 1: That was great. I didn't respond that. Did I think
Speaker 1: about that. We're going to have to create in the
Speaker 1: next a little while. That will be uh something to
Speaker 1: work on um. All right, I didn't responded that thread yet.
Speaker 1: I realized I probably should to not get back into
Speaker 1: a an awkward place with Peter Schrieger. I really I
Speaker 1: really respected what he wrote and what he had to say.
Speaker 1: It just was early in the morning when I read it.
Speaker 1: Right right now anyway, was actually probably awake at that time. Well,
Speaker 1: I also wasn't on me. I wasn't on the episode,
Speaker 1: so what will I You know, it did not involve me.
Speaker 1: Maybe that's why he was watching. That's true, Erica, But
Speaker 1: all right, that's it. Dan has a signing off for
Speaker 1: a Quiet Storm, the Old Boss, Ricky Hollywood, Randy chav
Speaker 1: great Digger, Sean Kelly, break out star something Josh Norris.
Speaker 1: Of course, thank you, buddy for joining us. Till Thursday
Speaker 1: he had the call