1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: This is part five of a six part series. If 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: you've missed the first few episodes, go back and listen 3 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: so you'll be caught up on the story up to 4 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: this point. In today's episode, we're going to look at 5 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: why it matters that this is the first industry to 6 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: sue Big Oil, and what this case and this sort 7 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: of David versus Goliath's struggle might mean for other industries. 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: Previously on drilled, if you know that your product is 9 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: going to destroy the world, you have to be yelling 10 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: that from the mountaintops frequently and constantly. The West Coast 11 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: dungeness crab fishery off the California and Oregon coasts is 12 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: one of the most sustainable fisheries in the world. Throw 13 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: back females and juvenile males, so the stock is self replenishing. 14 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: Repeated closures since twenty fifteen are unusual in US fisheries, 15 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,199 Speaker 1: which are typically shut down for stock depletion, and while 16 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: that can be exacerbated by climate change and warming oceans 17 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,759 Speaker 1: as well, the case here is a little more direct. 18 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: Warming oceans grow more algae. More algae means more demoic acid, 19 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: and that's what's resulted in the repeated shutdowns for this fishery. 20 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 2: The paradoxical nature of this is really challenging to accept 21 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 2: that we would be looking at closures in an otherwise 22 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 2: healthy fishery, whether it's driven by demoic acid or other factors. 23 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 2: To close a fishery that's doing well is something new 24 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 2: in American fisheries management, and we need to treat it 25 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 2: differently from the kinds of closures that we've had to 26 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 2: institute when climate forces are overfishing have resulted in stock depletion. 27 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 2: We have to treat it differently. It's a new phenomenon. 28 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 2: It's completely different. 29 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: That's Noah Sppenheim, head of the Fisheries Trade Association. Again 30 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: he repeats something I heard a lot talking to crabbers. 31 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 1: We've done everything we can. Something needs to give, especially 32 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 1: now that the season is being squeezed at both ends, 33 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: making it harder than ever to make a living. This 34 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: is the story of two industries, one struggling to survive, 35 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: the other the most powerful in human history. The outcome 36 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,400 Speaker 1: of their battle may well dictate what path we take 37 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: in dealing with climate change. I'm Amy Westerveld and this 38 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: is drilled season two hot water with demoic acid delays 39 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: at the beginning of the season and whale closures at 40 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: the end. Fishermen are worried that their fishery could disappear altogether. 41 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: They've already seen a slight decrease in demand thanks to 42 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: all the demoic acid closures. It's not great as a 43 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: food supplier to have a lot of news about your 44 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: product being unsafe to eat. Crabber Ben Platt points out 45 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: another issue with these annual shifts to the season. 46 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 3: We crabbed that year until the very end of the season, 47 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 3: which in District ten is June thirtieth, and then it 48 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 3: takes a couple of weeks to get your gear. We 49 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 3: had to truck our gear back home, so by the 50 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 3: time we got salmon troll and it was already middle 51 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,920 Speaker 3: of August, so essentially salmon season was just about over 52 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 3: by the time we started. Normally we would be if 53 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 3: we were going to go salm and trolling, you want 54 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 3: to be finished crabbing, like in mid March, maybe at 55 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 3: the latest, because you need to haul your boat out 56 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:34,239 Speaker 3: of the water and you need to, you know, put 57 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 3: all your gear away, and if you're out of town 58 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 3: like we are now, you have to bring everything back, 59 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 3: and most people do their major projects in between season, 60 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 3: but in order to do that, you have to be 61 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 3: done with your crab season before we even started on 62 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 3: these democ acid years. Last year we didn't start until 63 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 3: February seventh or something like that. This year we started 64 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 3: January twenty second. Up here, you can't get a full 65 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 3: crab season in a full salmon season, or if you're 66 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 3: a shrimper, you can't get a full crab season in 67 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 3: full shrimp season. In So, yeah, the democ acid thing, 68 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 3: it throws everything off. We don't like having more than 69 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 3: a month or so at the most of downtime. And 70 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 3: it's not just for us, it's also for our crewise. 71 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 3: We can't keep good crews, which are essential to doing 72 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 3: well with these fisheries, if we can't keep them employed 73 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 3: essentially year round. 74 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: None of the crabbers that I talked to does less 75 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 1: than two different types of fishing. Many were salmon trollers 76 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 1: before the state's dams made that fishery a little harder. 77 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 3: It used to be like eighty percent salmon income twenty 78 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 3: percent crab, and then it got flipped on its head 79 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 3: and now it's one hundred percent crab. And albacore on 80 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 3: my new boat. So I mean, what that's done is 81 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 3: put all this pressure into the crab. 82 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: Fishery, and then because the crab season shifted, even if 83 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: fishermen made up income later in the season on crab, 84 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: they lost it on whatever their other season is, typically 85 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: black cod, rock, cod, salmon, or shrimp. You might expect 86 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: crabbers to be pessimistic given the endless roller coaster of 87 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 1: their industry, and they are, but they're also weirdly optimistic. 88 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: They take risks and bet on the future of their 89 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:17,119 Speaker 1: industry constantly. Ben is building a bigger boat right now. 90 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: He's hoping to get another few good years in so 91 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:20,040 Speaker 1: he can retire. 92 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 3: We get overextended too. I've done it myself over and 93 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 3: over again in my career. You know, I'm doing it 94 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 3: right now with the new boat, you know, taking a 95 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 3: big financial risk. So with all this stuff going on, 96 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 3: with whale lawsuits and demo gas hitting everything else, and 97 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 3: there's casinos up here. In one year when I was 98 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 3: up here sam Intol and somebody's like, you go, did 99 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 3: you go? 100 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 4: No? 101 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 3: I said, no, I don't gamble. I'm not a gambler. 102 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 3: And he said, yeah, you are, what do you mean, 103 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 3: He goes, well, you're a commercial fisherman. You're constantly gambling, 104 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 3: and that's true. I mean we gamble with our money 105 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 3: all the time and take risks, you know, to try 106 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:54,159 Speaker 3: to grow our business. 107 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: Dona morro Bay Lori French, is also starting to think 108 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: about retirement and hoping that fishing remains an option for 109 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: her son, Lauren. 110 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 3: We're kind of the last of one hundred gatherers. 111 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 5: And we need to do anything we can to protect them. 112 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: Part of this sort of realistic optimism they have has 113 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: to do with how close they are to the resources 114 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: they depend on and how well they understand them. These 115 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: are communities that are constantly thinking about resource management. It's 116 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: an almost daily concern, which also makes them an interesting 117 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: counterweight to the oil industry. On one side, you've got 118 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:33,279 Speaker 1: a working class community that carefully stewards the resource it 119 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: depends on. On the other, you've got a well funded 120 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: industry that's also resource dependent, but focused on extracting as 121 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: many resources as possible as quickly as possible. As the 122 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: first industry to take on big oil. Krabbers are navigating 123 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: uncharted waters, but Noah says he hopes it encourages other 124 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: resource dependent industries, everything from agriculture to the outdoor industry, 125 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: to take a stand too. 126 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 2: They're both extractive industries. They difference is that ours is 127 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 2: a renewable industry and there's not. There's a finite life 128 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 2: to their industry. We can keep eating dungenous crabs forever, 129 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 2: and we hope to the business to business side of 130 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 2: things is a new angle. There are so many other 131 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 2: renewable industries, industries that can persist forever as long as 132 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 2: we have a habitable planet that will be damaged irrevocably 133 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 2: if we don't fix this problem, if we don't stop 134 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 2: right now the rampant combustion of fossil fuels and take 135 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 2: drastic steps now to curb climate change, we know it 136 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: already impacting society and deep and extraordinarily damaging and expensive ways. 137 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 2: Industries need to step up. Ours has others will. I 138 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 2: have no doubt this. 139 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: Is precisely why the oil industry may well fight this 140 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: suit even harder than it has the various other suits 141 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: brought against it by states, cities, and counties. I reached 142 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: out to Exon, Mobile, Chevron, and Shell for comment on 143 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: this suit, and only chev got back to me of 144 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: the Krabber suit in general, spokesman Sean Comi wrote, quote, 145 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: it's always regrettable to be in a legal dispute with 146 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: a customer, especially considering how much diesel the fishing fleets purchase. Now, 147 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: remember this was the issue mini fishermen themselves had with 148 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: the suit initially, as we covered earlier. 149 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 3: You know, my initial reaction was just like a lot 150 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 3: of other fishermen. It's like, well, I have a diesel 151 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 3: engine in my boat, so why would I want to 152 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 3: sue a fossil fuel company. 153 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: But eventually they realized that while yes, they are customers 154 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 1: who purchased diesel, they are not companies who decide what 155 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: sort of fuel is available for purchase. 156 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 3: You know, I think what it boils down to for 157 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 3: me is that I've done everything I could do as 158 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 3: a fossil fuel burning boat operator commercial fishermen to minimize 159 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 3: my carbon footprint. A lot of us have done this, 160 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 3: and we've modernized our equipment at our own a lot 161 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 3: of our own expanse and time because we're trying to 162 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 3: have as little the carbon footprint as possible. You know, 163 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 3: we're doing whatever we can, but there's only so much 164 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 3: that we can do. We're not the fossil fuel companies. 165 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 3: We're not the big energy companies. We're not scientists. We 166 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 3: can't figure out how to make a hydrogen sell or 167 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 3: something that will. 168 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 6: Power our boats. 169 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 3: You know, we're just using what's available. 170 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: Chevron's Comy went on to say that the Crabber suit 171 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: uses the same arguments as the other climate liability suits 172 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: and that the claims quote defy state and federal law. 173 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: Last year, Ted Boutros, Chevron's attorney, who has also been 174 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 1: the preferred spokesperson of all the oil company defendants in 175 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: previous suits, said this to me about climate liability cases 176 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 1: in general. 177 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,719 Speaker 5: We recognize that global warming is of serious issue and 178 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 5: poses serious problems that need to be confronted on a 179 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 5: global basis. But this kind of lawsuit is counterproductive and 180 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 5: it's just legally flawed. 181 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: Exon Mobil has been aggressively countersuing and its responses to 182 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: other liability suits. The other oil companies have been less 183 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: inclined to countersuit, and Chevron's Comy is right, this suit 184 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: doesn't allege anything different from those suits. It's the plaintiffs 185 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: that are the key difference. They cannot so easily be 186 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: brushed off as out of touch environmentalists or money grubbing 187 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: trial lawyers or government bureaucrats seeking to annoy industry with 188 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,239 Speaker 1: too many regulations. In fact, they're an industry that complains 189 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:26,439 Speaker 1: themselves about regulation. Lorie French talks about it frequently. 190 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 6: Regulations, and there's always some crisis that they're pushing for 191 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 6: in the name of save the environment. The drift skill letters, 192 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 6: there is less than twenty of them in the state, 193 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 6: and they close the fishery on it. It's just like, 194 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 6: how much damage can less than twenty guys make. 195 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: It's hard for the oil industry to use a standard 196 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: industry versus the environment, or industry versus the government sort 197 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,120 Speaker 1: of defense against another industry, and especially one that holds 198 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 1: a lot of the same views about both environmental groups 199 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 1: and regulations being annoying and bad for big business, and 200 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: one filled with working class Americans who have been materially 201 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,719 Speaker 1: harmed by inaction on climate Even conservative judges who have 202 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 1: mostly said things about how climate change is just sort 203 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:15,439 Speaker 1: of a necessary component of progress might struggle to issue 204 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: a judgment that says, in essence, this industry's right to 205 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: make its shareholders more money. Trump's that industry's right to exist. 206 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: Lord helped the judge who says, like Lorie's sister did 207 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 1: back in twenty fifteen, that Krabber's like Jeff, should just 208 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: fold up the fishing business and go get a job 209 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: at the hardware store. 210 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 6: It's like, how long have you known my husband? No, 211 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:39,719 Speaker 6: it's never worked for anybody, except for if he worked 212 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 6: for Kentucky Fried Chicken when he was in high school. 213 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 6: I know who's fished his entire life. That's what he is. 214 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 3: He works hard. 215 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 6: But if he had a punch of clock and kill him. 216 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: Still winning the suit, even keeping it alive past the 217 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,360 Speaker 1: oil company's motion to dismiss will be far from easy. 218 00:11:56,920 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: Several climate liability cases are in the courts at the moment, 219 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: along with fraud probes of Exonmobile by the states of 220 00:12:02,679 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 1: Massachusetts and New York, and oil companies have made it 221 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: clear that they won't go down without a fight. They've 222 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 1: countersued nearly everyone who has sued them, and Excellent in particular, 223 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: is pursuing a First Amendment defense, arguing that the First 224 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: Amendment gives it the right to see whatever it wants 225 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 1: about climate change, no matter the consequences or whether it 226 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: contradicts their own internal research. We covered this First Amendment 227 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: defense in one of the bonus episodes in season one 228 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: of Drilled. It's the latest and a long string of 229 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,400 Speaker 1: attempts to reshape the First Amendment into a blanket protection 230 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: for corporations. Here's constitutional law expert John Enton to explain. 231 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 7: The basic question is though corporations have lead rights, and 232 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 7: the answer is yes. The Supreme Court has said for 233 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 7: a long time that corporations are legal persons, but in 234 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 7: the contal speech area, generally, the Supreme Court has said 235 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 7: their false norm misleading speech is not protected. 236 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: That last bit is where the rubber really meets the 237 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: road in these climate liability cases. If plaintiffs can prove 238 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,839 Speaker 1: that oil companies were making false or misleading statements about 239 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: climate change, then their First Amendment defense is likely to 240 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: fall apart. But of course that also depends on the 241 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 1: judge and their thoughts on corporate personhood. Meanwhile, the Crabbers 242 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,839 Speaker 1: still have to deal with the impacts of the suit 243 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 1: brought against them by environmental group the Center for Biological Diversity. 244 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: They worked with the Department of Fish and Wildlife and 245 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: the Center for Biological Diversity to settle that suit and 246 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: keep the fishery from a total shutdown, but things are 247 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: still pretty dire. Ben Platt described it as the biggest 248 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: threat to the fishery since he was a kid. The 249 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: season will shut early every year until the state gets 250 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,959 Speaker 1: a federal permit that allows fishing to continue alongside endangered species. 251 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: There's a push toward ropeless gear as a solution, but 252 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: fishermen are concerned about the cost, particularly given the hit 253 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: the industry has taken in recent years, and there's still 254 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: plenty of disagreement within the community over how to handle 255 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,959 Speaker 1: all of this. It's an industry and a community that's 256 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: on the ropes, and hey, we've lost industries before. Sometimes 257 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: that's just what happens. Things change, the economy needs different things. 258 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: But climate change has come for fishermen in a way 259 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: that should be a warning for every industry. Just as 260 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: it continues to impact cities, to flood entire Midwest towns 261 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: off the map, or in Gulf California towns in a 262 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: single fire, it's coming for a community or an industry 263 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,600 Speaker 1: you care about too. It's only a matter of time 264 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: and who we hold responsible for that, how we adapt 265 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: that could have a real impact on how we address 266 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: climate change in general and whether we're up to the 267 00:14:53,280 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: challenges ahead. Next time on Drilled, we'll look at what's 268 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: next for crabbers and what this falls season might hold. 269 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 4: There's a bigger discussion that needs to continue about what 270 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 4: does it look like to help our rule coastal communities 271 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 4: become more climate adapted. What does it look like to 272 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 4: have the right wars and infrastructure for killers and boats, 273 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 4: and how to prepare them for what might be the future. 274 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: We'll be back with another episode in this series next week, 275 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: but if you can't wait until then, or you just 276 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: want to support independent climate reporting, consider becoming a Drilled member. 277 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: Just go to Drilled dot supportingcast dot FM to sign up. 278 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 1: That's Drilled dot Supporting Cast s U P P O 279 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: R T I n G C A S T dot 280 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: F M F like Frank, I'm like Mary to sign up. 281 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for your support, We really really appreciate it. Drilled 282 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: is produced and distributed by Critical Frequent and See. The 283 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: show was created and reported by me Amy Westervelt. Rika 284 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: Murphy is our editorial advisor, and additional editing for this 285 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: series was done by Julia Richie. The series was mixed 286 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: by Bill Lance music by Elliott Peltzman. Season two cover 287 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: art was drawn by Angela Scheh. Drilled is supported in 288 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: part by a generous grant from the Institute for Governance 289 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: and Sustainable Development. You can listen and subscribe to Drilled 290 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. If 291 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: you like the show, don't forget to give us a 292 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: five star rating. It helps us buy more listeners and 293 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:40,320 Speaker 1: combat pesky climate deniers. Visit our website Drilled podcast dot 294 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: com for behind the scenes photos and additional information about 295 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: this series. You can also drop us a tip or 296 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 1: story idea there and sign up for our newsletter, or 297 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: you can find me on Twitter. I'm at Amy Westervelt. 298 00:16:53,240 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.